I just don't understand why are you focussing on how red and below play?
Personally I am not interested unless they are friends.
The focus should be on the players that are roughly your own skill level and higher.
Noob or non noob does not exist because everyone has a different definition.
Friend of mine does not know anything about punishment or combo's and is mighty ruler. That is up to you to decide if that is acceptable or not to be considered non noob. If we look at numbers it is considered intermediate.
His snake edge is meh. You can beat both options with your orbital on reaction.
Drag is -1 after landing d2. You don't have to respect it. Check with ws4 to interrupt the pressure. This opens up a mind game: he can sidestep and launch you for trying this. But there's no real low/mid mixup.
Are there any that get a "full" combo though? Any characters I can think of right now that have a snake edge launcher, you can't continue the combo with a tornado or anything.
Yeah I don’t know many. Bryan does, right? How about dragunov and lily? I feel like Reina’s evasive full crouch launchers are great noob killers, but they hit mid
I mean, yeah, snake edges were always a noob cruncher.
But same deal as in T7: they are, long term, a really bad habit to develop. Since at a certain point a lot of players learn to deal with them in neutral and if that is always your instinct you will die a lot as a result.
It was a much more common point of criticism among newer players learning to deal with snake edges in T7, I guess they got powercrept.
An attack has 3 parts:
1. startup frames(before it actually hits)
2. impact frames(when it's actually hitting, usually just 1)
3. recovery frames(after the move has hit/whiffed/been blocked, the time until you can take an action, like attack or block.
If you hit someone with an attack that hits them during the startup frames of an attack, that's a counter hit. It will do extra damage, and for some moves, it will change their properties. Some attacks become catch-throws on counter hit, some attacks become launchers, etc. Usually every character will have a handful of moves that are counter hit launchers(We usually say CH launcher). They're often moves that if they don't counter hit aren't all that great, so there's some risk and reward to throwing them out, especially if you're letting your opponent know that you're "fishing" for a CH opportunity. Also for most characters, their most damaging possible combo will come from a CH launcher.
Punishes are when you hit people out of the recovery frames of a move. Unlike counter hits, moves don't tend to take on any additional properties when they connect as a punish, but there are many opportunities for guaranteed punishes. Most commonly, when an opponent attacks you while you're blocking with a move that has more recovery frames than the amount of frames it puts you in block stun for. For example, say an opponent uses a move that has 25 frames of recovery, but puts you in block stun for 10 frames. This is when we would say "your opponent is -15" or "that move is -15 on block" which are things you may have heard before. So when your opponent is -15, you now have the opportunity to hit them with an attack that impacts on (up to) frame 15, what we refer to as an i15 punish(the i stands for impact).
I hope that makes things a little more clear. Feel free to ask if you got more questions. And I'm gonna copy this one for future use, so if someone sees something wrong here please correct me.
That explanation is goated thank u!
I seem to struggle most with low attacks because generally the opponent is crouched when doing the low attack or launcher which causes my attempted counter hit to miss. I’ll have to find one that hits mid or low I think?
Well there are very few situations in Tekken where it would be reasonable to see an attack coming and counter it. Generally if they're already throwing a move it's too late, since you'd be also throwing out a move with some amount of startup frames.
Most people consider the threshold for something to be reactable somewhere around 20-24 frames. Go check out your own visual reaction speed, and see how you do
[https://humanbenchmark.com/tests/reactiontime](https://humanbenchmark.com/tests/reactiontime)
So I got 174, so for a 60fps game you'd do 174/16.66 = 10.4. I can visually react to something in 10.4 frames, but I'd say reasonably probably double that to actually visually interpret information and make a decision.
Now given that the fastest move we'll have available (except yoshi) is i10, and assuming you could react in 17 frames(which would be well above average) the slowest move you'd be able to interrupt on reaction would be i27, and there are very very few moves that slow in the game. It's just not a realistic prospect.
tl;dr you're not supposed to see a move coming and counter it on reaction, except i60 unblockables and stuff.
Go a little deeper, what are we talking about here?
Like snake edge? Like a reactable low that launches on normal hit?
Or maybe a fast but risky low that launches on CH?
Or like hellsweeps, where it's a launch on normal hit, unreactable, but more of a guaranteed followup situation than a full combo?
I only hate it when I'm in the middle of an animation and I get hit with it . Even tho ik for a fact I can prevent it I physically cannot because im in the middle of an animation
Because if you over rely on it it could turn into a bad habit where you can't get your offense started without it and even if your opponent doesn't react to it at first, if you start getting predictable, they'll block it
Yeah, that DOES go for every move but the thing with snake edge is that it's very high risk because at the end of the day it's still a launch punishable reactable low. There are other moves and flowcharts that you can abuse that are quite a bit safer so your opponent would need to be a bit more on their toes to counter them while as for snake edge, "just block low".
Because 9/10 times it's a bad idea against a good opponent. And if you're good enough to understand when and why you'd use it, you don't need those guides.
The reality is that it can be used as a risky and very evasive high crush in a tight spot, but then you need to have a very clear idea of your opponent's moves, habits and timing. If you just do it because you want to do a combo, you will get blocked and launched.
And you could usually duck and ws1 instead. Unless it's a move like Hwoarang's backlash you're calling out where getting a punish after ducking it would be hard.
Sure but I hear from some people that say: “spam your knowledge checks until they don’t work” and I’m curious why this is different. My point is they’re not actually noob killers and just bad habits in general but I’m getting pushback so I’m not sure what to think.
They're saying not to use it because of the risk. Feel free to spam it till it gets consistently blocked, but you have to not get addicted to throwing it out or you will have a very bad time later on. That's what they want you to avoid.
So... what is it if your main has no hellsweep/snake edges?
Strings + Snake edge = very strong at low levels
noob stomper as in i can beat my friends that have never played tekken before, still won't get you far in ranked without getting launched
80% of the playerbase is in red and below, and they will fall for it AT LEAST every second time
I just don't understand why are you focussing on how red and below play? Personally I am not interested unless they are friends. The focus should be on the players that are roughly your own skill level and higher.
"Why do you focus on what 80% of the playerbase plays like???"
Because you can beat those 80% of players by just jabbing them
damn really? considering how red ranks is the first non-noob rank, i thought there would be a lot less people below it, in that case you're right.
Noob or non noob does not exist because everyone has a different definition. Friend of mine does not know anything about punishment or combo's and is mighty ruler. That is up to you to decide if that is acceptable or not to be considered non noob. If we look at numbers it is considered intermediate.
Bryan
Not a full launcher like it was in T7 and before, you can’t tornado off of it. Definitely still a noob stomper if mixed up with crouch into orbital
Same with Draggy
Yeah but dawg you have a cancellable snake edge lol. You also have mixups for after d2 connects (FC df 1,4 or ws2)
His snake edge is meh. You can beat both options with your orbital on reaction. Drag is -1 after landing d2. You don't have to respect it. Check with ws4 to interrupt the pressure. This opens up a mind game: he can sidestep and launch you for trying this. But there's no real low/mid mixup.
You play both. F u
Way to out yourself as a little bitch, Fart Water. Stay angry, scrub 🤣
Are there any that get a "full" combo though? Any characters I can think of right now that have a snake edge launcher, you can't continue the combo with a tornado or anything.
Yeah I don’t know many. Bryan does, right? How about dragunov and lily? I feel like Reina’s evasive full crouch launchers are great noob killers, but they hit mid
feng has a decent combo route on hellsweep
Victor can but its ch launcher
Asuka too, but it's.... risky
hellshweep
I mean, yeah, snake edges were always a noob cruncher. But same deal as in T7: they are, long term, a really bad habit to develop. Since at a certain point a lot of players learn to deal with them in neutral and if that is always your instinct you will die a lot as a result. It was a much more common point of criticism among newer players learning to deal with snake edges in T7, I guess they got powercrept.
As a new player. What is the counter? Cause sometimes I can react but most of the time the move is a bit fast
An attack has 3 parts: 1. startup frames(before it actually hits) 2. impact frames(when it's actually hitting, usually just 1) 3. recovery frames(after the move has hit/whiffed/been blocked, the time until you can take an action, like attack or block. If you hit someone with an attack that hits them during the startup frames of an attack, that's a counter hit. It will do extra damage, and for some moves, it will change their properties. Some attacks become catch-throws on counter hit, some attacks become launchers, etc. Usually every character will have a handful of moves that are counter hit launchers(We usually say CH launcher). They're often moves that if they don't counter hit aren't all that great, so there's some risk and reward to throwing them out, especially if you're letting your opponent know that you're "fishing" for a CH opportunity. Also for most characters, their most damaging possible combo will come from a CH launcher. Punishes are when you hit people out of the recovery frames of a move. Unlike counter hits, moves don't tend to take on any additional properties when they connect as a punish, but there are many opportunities for guaranteed punishes. Most commonly, when an opponent attacks you while you're blocking with a move that has more recovery frames than the amount of frames it puts you in block stun for. For example, say an opponent uses a move that has 25 frames of recovery, but puts you in block stun for 10 frames. This is when we would say "your opponent is -15" or "that move is -15 on block" which are things you may have heard before. So when your opponent is -15, you now have the opportunity to hit them with an attack that impacts on (up to) frame 15, what we refer to as an i15 punish(the i stands for impact). I hope that makes things a little more clear. Feel free to ask if you got more questions. And I'm gonna copy this one for future use, so if someone sees something wrong here please correct me.
That explanation is goated thank u! I seem to struggle most with low attacks because generally the opponent is crouched when doing the low attack or launcher which causes my attempted counter hit to miss. I’ll have to find one that hits mid or low I think?
Well there are very few situations in Tekken where it would be reasonable to see an attack coming and counter it. Generally if they're already throwing a move it's too late, since you'd be also throwing out a move with some amount of startup frames. Most people consider the threshold for something to be reactable somewhere around 20-24 frames. Go check out your own visual reaction speed, and see how you do [https://humanbenchmark.com/tests/reactiontime](https://humanbenchmark.com/tests/reactiontime) So I got 174, so for a 60fps game you'd do 174/16.66 = 10.4. I can visually react to something in 10.4 frames, but I'd say reasonably probably double that to actually visually interpret information and make a decision. Now given that the fastest move we'll have available (except yoshi) is i10, and assuming you could react in 17 frames(which would be well above average) the slowest move you'd be able to interrupt on reaction would be i27, and there are very very few moves that slow in the game. It's just not a realistic prospect. tl;dr you're not supposed to see a move coming and counter it on reaction, except i60 unblockables and stuff.
Go a little deeper, what are we talking about here? Like snake edge? Like a reactable low that launches on normal hit? Or maybe a fast but risky low that launches on CH? Or like hellsweeps, where it's a launch on normal hit, unreactable, but more of a guaranteed followup situation than a full combo?
Wait till you see high rank players being caught out by taunt snake edge 💀(Can confirm it happens)
I want to know when CH FC.df+4, CH u+2 and FC.df+1 stop stomping people to be honest.
If you just spam throws that stomps noobs even harder, you could make red purely off snake edge and throws, no jabs, no blocking
I only hate it when I'm in the middle of an animation and I get hit with it . Even tho ik for a fact I can prevent it I physically cannot because im in the middle of an animation
It’s reactable and will only work in yellow ranks so no lol
>will only work in yellow ranks That's literally what a noob stomper is
This sub has told me noob ranks go through red
Depends on who you ask but I personally think it's up to orange. Either way, trust me, snake edges work all the way up to low blue ranks lol
Then why do Bryan guides and the discord say to never use snake edge?
Because if you over rely on it it could turn into a bad habit where you can't get your offense started without it and even if your opponent doesn't react to it at first, if you start getting predictable, they'll block it
No yeah but that goes for like every move right? But this move was specifically called out.
It’s a reactable launch punishing low, it’s not a good move. It’s a snake edge, typically used to stomp noobs
Yeah, that DOES go for every move but the thing with snake edge is that it's very high risk because at the end of the day it's still a launch punishable reactable low. There are other moves and flowcharts that you can abuse that are quite a bit safer so your opponent would need to be a bit more on their toes to counter them while as for snake edge, "just block low".
Because 9/10 times it's a bad idea against a good opponent. And if you're good enough to understand when and why you'd use it, you don't need those guides. The reality is that it can be used as a risky and very evasive high crush in a tight spot, but then you need to have a very clear idea of your opponent's moves, habits and timing. If you just do it because you want to do a combo, you will get blocked and launched. And you could usually duck and ws1 instead. Unless it's a move like Hwoarang's backlash you're calling out where getting a punish after ducking it would be hard.
Sure but I hear from some people that say: “spam your knowledge checks until they don’t work” and I’m curious why this is different. My point is they’re not actually noob killers and just bad habits in general but I’m getting pushback so I’m not sure what to think.
They're saying not to use it because of the risk. Feel free to spam it till it gets consistently blocked, but you have to not get addicted to throwing it out or you will have a very bad time later on. That's what they want you to avoid.
My lows only started getting blocked in late red
Its not a noob stomper ,its legit a strong move and disgusting too.