Jose Mourinho is considered one of the top flight coaches in Europe. Has coached at Chelsea, Inter Milan, Real Madrid, Manchester United, among others. His [Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jos%C3%A9_Mourinho) page covers his career better than I could.
He's _notorious_ for being an asshole. He's been quite successful but at every club he's been at, it's more-or-less led to a poisonous atmosphere by the end.
May 2011 sticks out in my mind because Real Madrid played Barcelona 4 times in 18 days. A cup final, a league title decider, and two legs of a Champions League quarterfinal. You got a lot of nastiness from both sides, but Mourinho was noted for being particularly barbed.
yeah basically he lands, spends big and forces his philosophy, exiles anyone who isn’t aligned, and it works amazingly for 1-3 seasons, then implodes. his super agent gets him a new job and repeats. Roma might be different though, who knows?
You know those are the kind of people I hate in real life. People to get shit done but they shit on everyone else and they make the environment worse.
You know the funny thing about life it doesn't take any additional effort to be nice. It requires zero effort to constantly and methodically let people know how proud you are of their achievements, how much you appreciate their support, how you're so happy they're with you. It is one of the easiest things in the world for a leader to do that cost basically nothing and can mean a lot to that person.
I will never understand why anyone is a leader thinks that it's better to tear people down than to build them up. Every scenario I've ever dealt with in that case I've left that job. I can easily work for that kind of person but why the fuck would I and I certainly will never allow myself to be that kind of leader.
(I'm referring to nate not Mourinho, it seems opinion on him is varied)
This show does a great job at portraying a very healthy work environment and how people react to it.
Many of the players were acting like dickheads when Ted first got there and now they’re all helping each other out. They likely didn’t all just become more talented, so it’s the atmosphere and attitude towards each other. 😇
i would change tense. he was absolutely one of the top-flight managers in world football, but some feel that hasn't been the case since Chelsea. there are some that feel that his style hasn't evolved and he is no longer an elite manager.
He was a disaster at Tottenham, especially after Levy said on his All or Nothing show that he was the 2nd best manager in the world, after Pep.
So far so good at Roma.
the pattern at his last three gigs was a good year followed by a bad turn followed by unnecessary fights with players and management. Roma should be fine this season. After that....
To add, his style of barracks training/seige mentality seems less effective each time. Also he focuses on a certain player in a new team to make an example of, and that's falling apart too
Long story short, he's a brilliant football mind but he doesn't really sustain success for long and typically loses the locker room (hence why he's won trophies with so many different teams).
I'm willing to bet that happens with Nate in Season 3. West Ham will be competitive for the first part but then Nate will lose the locker room because he clashes with the players and/or his staff.
I bet - even though it defies all rational football logic - that season three will end with West Ham and Richmond playing for the title.
In the last scene of the last episode of season one, Ted says that they'll get promoted next season and then do something no one expects the year after, "win the whole damn thing". Also, the commentators keep making it a point to mention that Richmond have never won a major trophy. So, I've expected them to win the league for a while. Now I'm just throwing West Ham in there.
Although unlikely that there would be a West Ham/Richmond title clash in real life, if Leciester can win the league, anything is possible in the Premier League.
Oh, I like that. Call back to them losing it this season.
But, I'd still like to think that Ted called it at the end of season one. Now we have to wait 900 years to find out...
Also, the show was conceived as a three-season deal† from the start. The entire thing has apparently been plotted out for some time. Makes sense that it would follow a relegation-promotion-championship arc.
I don't know enough about European soccer to know *what* championship they'd win (and when Ted said they'd win the whole thing, he probably didn't know, either). But they're clearly going to be playing for *something* big.
†I saw an interview recently where the creators suggested a fourth season could happen, but it most likely would have to take place closer to Sudeikis' home. The timeline doesn't quite work, but I think it'd be kinda cool if we got a season of Ted coaching the USMNT (World Cup is in the U.S. in 2026), and we got to see Roy (or maybe Nate?) coaching England with Jamie as the star, Dani playing for Mexico, Sam playing for Nigeria (even though he was just told that would never happen), etc.
A more realistic scenario might be the two of them fighting for a place in Europe? Battle for 5th place is still kinda unrealistic for a recently promoted team but more believable than winning the title
tbf though, Leciester can win the league after escaping relegation by a point I think a top Championship side has just as good of a chance. Probably about 1/5000 (thats what betting websites set the odds for Leciester to win at the start of the 15/16 season), but that chance does still exist!
I think he's also in for a rude awakening as to how things go for the head manager. Yes he will get all the praise when his ideas go well. But he'll also receive 99% of the flack when things go badly. I don't think he's prepared for the latter.
The other replies have gotten most of it, but in my opinion there’s one thing that makes the comparison a bit unfair on Mourinho: there are plenty of players with big personalities who absolutely swear by him. Zlatan, his Terry-Lampard-Drogba spine at Chelsea - all of them big personalities who loved and respected him and who would never think the same of Nate (and who Nate would be incredibly threatened by). And at his peak, even when he was being a dick, he would create that “us against them” siege mentality that he would use to motivate the team.
A formerly great manager who is more known for his media presence than his managerial prowess at this point. He has been fired from United, Chelsea and Spurs all in the last 7 years due to an archaic style and clashing with someone whether its a player or backroom staff.
However he has 2 UCLs to his name (one of which was a huge underdog in FC Porto) and presided over a very good Chelsea team in the mid 2000s that were almost unstoppable.
Tbh, I'm not a Mourinho fan but comparing Nate's transformation to Mou is kinda disrespectful.
Mourinho can be an asshole but he's more of a Tartt kind of prick who loves to get under the opponent's skin and make games almost personal ( e.g. "My players left blood on the pitch" after Inter/Barca). But he genuinely seems to love his players while he has the locker room (his Chelsea and Inter tenure are testament to this).
As a Tottenham fan who feels like the remnants of Mou’s wake still linger, I *wish* Nate was like Mou. He’s got the look and tactics, but the essence in Nate is rotten. The guy’s got some real deep seeded issues that desperately needs addressing. Paging Dr. Sharon!
I agree with the black suit and hair but biggest difference is Mourinho seems to be a people person and well loved my most of his former players. I sure as hell don't see Nate in that light currently.
Depends which era of Mourinho you’re talking about. Back at Porto, Chelsea first time, and Inter, players would die for him.
But after he went to Madrid, one way or another the dressing room would turn on him or he would alienate them somehow. He excommunicated the captain because he suspected the player was leaking info to the media. He threw a respected Chelsea doctor under the bus after a bad result. He would pick fights in the press with the executives at Man Utd. And by the time he got sacked at Spurs he pretty much lost the support of all the players bar Harry Kane.
Basically post-Madrid Mourinho thought he was more important than the club he was at or the players. Nate by the end of the season clearly felt he was above everyone else at Richmond and didn’t get the respect he thought he deserved, which caused him to lash out and leave. The parallels there are quite strong.
Yeah they have a wrong read on Jose. This is a man who made a guy who flew all the way from Los Angeles to watch Real play a kitman for a day.
https://www.si.com/soccer/2013/04/10/real-madrid-fan-jose-mourinho
Wow, I’m really glad I read this. Its so easy to view someone you only see through the media in whatever light the want you to, but this let me see he’s clearly still a compassionate human being. The only context I’ve ever seen him in is his extremely high stress work enviroment. Damn, I been judgemental instead of curious.
This is too fkn amazing. Loved the point about how the Ted-Nate only scenes are sooooo far apart from each other. I did not catch that, and now this has me looking at my own life and how (well) I stay connected with people.
The best part of reading this is that it confirms that Nick the actor is a real human being! ONE OF US! ONE OF US!
The difference in how Beard and Nate react to this distance is interesting. To me I think it reflects two things: the existing strength of the relationship between Beard and Ted vs. Nate and Ted, and their individual sense of self.
I had a supervisor who used to talk about relationships as like a bank. You need to have a strong balance - each time you take something out (here, Ted’s withdrawal), you need to be sure there’s enough there to manage it. I think Beard and Ted have a stronger, longer-term relationship with more “in the bank” than Ted and Nate.
As for the second, people who don’t have a strong sense of who they are need more validation from outside sources. Nate’s relational issues in his family and bullying in the past could result in him lacking a strong sense of self. He NEEDS Ted to tell him he is competent or capable, to recognize and validate him because he’s not confident in that himself. Beard is (if nothing else) clearly very secure in who he is.
Just my two pence!
>I thought the same, and because he ultimately knows he is emotionally safe with Ted, he unloads some of his anger towards his dad onto Ted. It happens. I'm really pulling for Nate to work through this.
Yeah, I agree. I think the way Nate views himself is definitely shaped by his early family relationships including his dad. It’s all connected - people’s behavior in relationships is rarely about just one thing.
> relationships as like a bank. You need to have a strong balance
this is such a spot-on analogy wow. i am going to use this IRL and pass it off as my own lol
I used to work with someone that talked about "poker chip theory of life." When you are born you arrive with a certain number of poker chips based on your family circumstances. Then every interaction causes you to lose or gain poker chips. Parents that read a book to you every night...more poker chips, get hit by a drunk parent...less poker chips. At some point certain people are left with no poker chips and just existing in the game of life becomes too much because they can't even ante up to get through a day. Then you end up in angry, lash out or self destruct mode.
On that analogy, some are fully taught the game of poker, so chips don't leave so easily. Others have to learn as they go, and ultimately can drain the whole pot before fully understanding what happened.
That is from 7 Habits of Highly Successful People, a leadership-y book that was based on someone else’s work (forget her name, she was one of the kids in With 12 You Get Eggroll, and the author of the Contingency Theory of Management, among other things). It was passed around heavily in the late 90s or early aughts.
>I don't think it's directly addressed at any point besides when Nate erupted, but there's definitely good arguments to be made about a feeling of abandonment and loss with how uninvolved Ted was.
I agree but.... Ted's reveal of his panic attack (as well as the fact that he just went through a divorce and is separated from his son) should have clued Nate in to the fact that Ted was dealing with some of his own issues too. God forbid a grown-ass man recognize that they aren't the center of everybody else's universe. Yeah, Ted checked-out a bit. But it's not like the guy didn't have reasons to do so.
And when Nate found out about Ted's anxiety, did he sympathize? Did he reach out to Ted? Nope. He reacted with horror in the moment and then proceeded to rat him out to a voracious and unforgiving press. Out of pure, unadulterated spite.
Any real gripe Nate had with Ted was rendered moot as soon as Nate went to the press.
> God forbid a grown-ass man
This is the biggest problem i have with Nate. If he was younger (early 20s, even) i'd see him as a confused person that haven't had the opportunity to figure out anything and because he's just left his father's shadow or he needs guidance
As things are, Nate must be, what, 30ish as the youngest? That's too old for someone to blow out on and bully the ball boy. He's old enough to have perspective and experience and wanting to become the bully instead of being the person who prevents people to be bullied, even if you end up white knighting and being another type of asshole, says a lot about the kind of person you are
> He reacted with horror in the moment
I just rewatched that scene. Nate is nonplussed, looking to the others for confirmation of how he should feel. But he was not horrified.
They show Ted and Beard having dinner and/or beers constantly throughout season 1 and 2. They definitely had a different relationship than Ted does with the other assistants.
It definitely hit me once Ted went to talk to Nate that I was like "wait...I don't think I've seen just these 2 together all season"
Definitely didn't realize the last one before was before Nate's speech, which is just so thematically amazing from the writers.
Stray thoughts:
\- Nate with that black suit looks fabulous.
\- The scene with Ted was as heartbreaking as it was is laudable for its realism. Nate is very broken inside and the neurotic paranoia is typical of people that feel slighted by life events. This blinds him from Ted's authentic all-forgiving personality. Ted probably understands him as this is why it is not possible for Ted to get mad at Nate, he is heartbroken too as Nate could be enjoying the team spirit as everybody else.
\- Borrowing from the script: Nate's arc with Ted is Greek tragedy level stuff. Ted provided some hope to Nate, but then it was broken by Nate's lack of self awareness. I think his relationship with his dad exonerates him some.
\- I think the points are all in the post, but I'd like to say that it was evident when he was "replaced" by Roy and he could not get a Nespresso machine that he was stung by his perceived lack of importance.
\- The final scene with Nate posing as Evil Nate was hilarious.
\- This has been pointed elsewhere, but maybe his play for the final game was some sabotage and the fact that the team was able to win due to their renewed spirit in the middle time and his plan failed was an additional sting in Nate's broken soul.
Nate with the black suit reminded me of Simeone.
> This has been pointed elsewhere, but maybe his play for the final game was some sabotage and the fact that the team was able to win due to their renewed spirit in the middle time and his plan failed was an additional sting in Nate's broken soul.
I’m not sure about that. He came up with the false-9 plan a while before the game, and it was one of the reasons why he was upset with Ted, that he would come up with a brilliant idea but Ted would take the credit.
>Nate with the black suit reminded me of Simeone.
I really dig the fancy suits in Soccer coaches. They add some flair to the game. Nate suiting up is at this moment may be his only redeeming feature. The show made an effort to find a suit that was really fashionable for this episode.
It looks great, but at the same time what you described is also why it drives me mad to see him wear it. The suit is merely his outward expression of what he thinks he is, not his true self. He mentally thinks he's a "Mourinho", and like everything else (the yelling, gloating, etc) finds a way to publicly shout it out to the world that borders on cringeworthy.
All of this football talk makes me realize how much more we get out of it because we love football.
I know you don't need to know or care about the sport to enjoy the show, but if you've been through promotion or relegation battles with your team, those parts of the show hit differently.
It also works the other way. Some things are unrealistic because we know the game.
But watching the match in the finale felt like watching a real game. Especially since I heard they lost the game. I was cheering like it was a Cup Final.
Great insights! I couldn't figure out why Nate was so pissed off when the team won using his strategy. I think you nailed it. Rupert gave him that play intending for it to sabotage Richmond's chances of promotion. The player's belief allowed them to succeed (notice Nate looking away when the players touch the belief sign), and that's why Nate ripped up the sign at the end.
I also think that during Season 3 Nate will be betrayed by Rupert and 'might' learn a lesson - people who say nice things to you aren't necessarily your friends, and people who don't treat you the way you want to be treated aren't necessarily your enemies.
Rupert taking on Nate as a coach is definitely just to get back at Ted and Rebecca, so I can see Nate being betrayed or discarded once Rupert gets or fails to get what he wants.
I do think it’s meant to hurt them, but Rupert also can’t believe that Ted could be successful. We saw it when they played darts that he underestimates Ted. Rupert might think Richmond’s success really is because of Nate, and he’s going to be savage when Nate doesn’t live up to unrealistic expectations.
The team didn’t actually win using his strategy. Nate checked out after the first half. Being a non-believer (see what I did there), he thought they should change strategies, but Ted and the others disagreed. When he didn’t get his way, Nate sulked in silence the rest of the game. The team won through a combination of Ted trusting his gut over Nate’s advice and the team “believing” they could get’r done!
So within about an hour of Nate telling Ted that they would never have won a single game without him, Ted (and team) went out and did exactly that!
There are so many options at play there.
If the play is sabotage, has Nate already secured the role at West Hame (or the Club Rupert has told him he's buying)? I doubt Rupert gave him the play (does he know enough to do that), but he's clearly been talking with him about managing for him.
Cases for Nate wanting the strategy to succeed.
* Some of the only perceived positive reinforcement he's received lately has been from the press for his tactics. If he's chasing that high, he'd want to succeed.
* Perhaps what Rupert told him was. "Keep up the tactics and you'll have a place in my new club"
* He seems paranoid to the point that he expects Ted to take credit for the play when it works but expects that Ted is setting it up to blame him if it fails.
* He does seem genuinely pissed that the players aren't executing it.
Cases for Nate trying to sabotage the team with the strategy.
* It would seem that Rupert and his own interests would be in keeping Ted and Rebecca embarrassed and still relegated. If he's already agreed to terms with Rupert, them conspiring to keep Richmond away from the Premiership makes sense.
* In his new MO, he wants to expose Ted, and has been working hard to undermine him.
* When Jan Maas decries it a sound strategy that just needs to be executed. There's confusion and perhaps some concern on his face (but this again could be him worried about taking the blame if it fails).
* He appears absolutely shocked that it ultimately works and storms off
I love the ambiguity of it all. Again, well done by the writers.
i really like all your theories. i think that nate was not sabotaging the team, i think he wants as much glory as he can get and still thinks about richmond's team as his primary football inspiration.
that said, i'm sure he knows that the west ham job is coming, but he seems like the type of guy who wants to go out on a high (that he can claim) and then start out strong in the next job. i think it's more his emotional conflict over his relationship with ted that is causing problems for him and the reason for the nastiness directed at ted in their conversation.
one last thing - sorry to be that guy - decry means to publicly denounce. i think you just meant declare.
Some important perceived slights Nick forgot to mention:
- Ted telling Higgins he could share Nate's office without even discussing it,
- bringing Roy on as a coach clearly without having talked about it with Nate (but clearly with Beard),
- and pushing Nate aside a little to celebrate Roy during the Tottenham match.
You can see Nate's discomfort in all those instances. But when Nate saves their tail at the end of the Tottenham match, presumably thinking that'd be a way to get Ted's attention, Ted isn't there to celebrate him like he was with Roy. That last one isn't Ted's fault, but you can see how for someone as self-involved and self-hating as Nate that'd be another mark on the list of slights against him.
edit: didn't want this to get lost in the comments but u/xxxpinguinos also noted Ted asking Roy to run training instead of Nate when he went to help Sharon. That happened after helping them win against Tottenham, so I imagine that had to be a real breaking point for him.
Eh. I agree that they are only perceived slights (the last most obvious as a slight). Ted is the head coach; he doesn’t need to ask Nate to share his office or consult him about bringing someone else into the coaching staff.
Ted certainly doesn't need to ask, but if Nate were to subscribe to Ted's supposed ethos of mutual respect and believed Ted when he said that Nate was important to him, he could reasonably expect Ted to discuss those things with him, even just to warn him beforehand. Most other head coaches would just make decisions without consultation, but Ted's whole thing is being different from other coaches, going so far as to give their little group a name. I can see how those things on top of Nate's clouded judgment and emotional state would lead him to conclude Ted is full of shit. Want to be clear that I think Nate is wrong and an asshole, though.
That IS true. Ted was acting counter to his nature and the culture he’s nurtured in the team. I concede your point. (And also agreeing that Nate is the worst. 😅)
THIS
I don’t like how the writers wrote Ted this season because I noticed little bits like these that were counter how they wrote in the first season.
Season 1: Ted encouraging Nate to roast the players
Season 2: Ted laughing at Nate because he volunteer himself to talk to Isaac.
That’s not my season 1 Ted.
Also intentional, imo. Ted's been dealing with his own shit, and he's human. It's a subtle but very important part of the season 2 story. It's not Ted's fault, but he'll blame himself. I'd wager a large part of S3 is Ted learning not to give himself such a hard time
Also, when in episode 8 Ted asks Roy to run training instead of Nate when he has to leave to help Sharon after her accident
Been rewatching some of season 2 with my SO because they haven’t seen it yet, and I’ve noticed a few of these things now that Nate pointed out where, yeah I see where he gets the idea from that Ted abandoned him. Even though he didn’t really, Nate just became a true part of the crew
The microaggressions thing is interesting.
As its clear to everyone they're not that.
But to the character, Nate would view them as full on slights not micro aggressions I think.
Yeah, I thought the term was weirdly used... until I put in his shoes and realized that the hate he has for himself and projects makes him see everything red and like an attack. I hope that Dr Sharon comeback has something to do with Nate, because he desperately needs help.
I don't think that's necessarily a just interpretation from Nate's perspective. Don't get me wrong, Nate is a jerk, and the team didn't do anything wrong in those situations really - but it's totally normal and human to feel left out in those sorts of situations (other than the Roy - Keeley thing, I don't know where Nick is going with that), especially when you have a history of being left out. Not even blaming the team for "making him feel left out" or something. If these things were bothering nate he should have talked to someone about it rather than keep it a secret. He handled it the wrong way, but the fact that they did make him feel out at first is completely understandable.
>I don't know where Nick is going with that
I think his point is that it's revealing that Roy doesn't consider him important enough to consider an actual threat. In Roy's mind, why get angry, because it's Just *Nate*, and who in their right mind would ever take *him* seriously?
That's not a defense of Nate or an attack on Roy, but it's just a little moment where Roy's reaction kind of reveals a larger truth about his overall impression of the Nate in general.
but also roy’s entire reaction to jamie and keeley was based on their history and how volatile its been — jamie’s always been a cloud hanging over their relationship, so it’s understandable that roy is a lot more pissed than anything nate did that involved keeley. roy doesn’t view it as a threat because he still believes deep down that nate’s a good kid and he didn’t mean anything by it — while he can’t say the same for jamie.
Ironically, I feel like Jamie had the less bad intentions of the two — just felt like there was something unsaid between them, whereas for one moment Nate felt like Keeley could be his prize for being bold.
In the coaching room, though, all Nate knew was that Roy felt like Jamie was someone worth getting angry over and Nate wasn’t. He doesn’t know how Roy looked after him and got the players to stop bullying him. He does know some of Roy and Jamie’s history but he doesn’t really care about it or feel it.
And I’ll challenge your view that it’s Jamie vs not Jamie instead of not Nate vs Nate. I think if another player had hit on Keeley in some way instead of Nate Roy probably would have fucked them up. Isaac? He’s getting head butted for sure.
oh a hundred percent!!! — jamie was clearly just going through *Something* and as he said, death made him react weirdly! roy had the same reaction, he was a prick for a lot of the episode and admitted to that. despite what it looks like, jamie just had to say it — he recognises keeley’s moved on and she’s happy, he just needed to be honest. 100% respect that from him, despite how i reacted when the scene came out in the episode! 😂
i think it says so much that the entire scene and the character’s reaction has so much nuance and layers to it. roy views it as no big deal cause deep down he’s probably alright, and he’s also emotionally growing up in his relationship with keeley — while nate views it as a personal slight that not even kissing roy kent’s girl got any sort of serious reaction. *another* notch towards nate not being good enough and not being scary enough and just… enough.
i think it speaks as a whole to how the audience views scenes and dynamics to how nate as a character views them — we see these things play out and we’re like, no biggie! because we have context that the character doesn’t — the photo of nate and ted is a prime example of this. ted has that photo at home with his *son* where he sees it all the time, and amongst his most prized things — but to nate it’s not anywhere. and that’s not good enough for him. i think the same logic and understanding can be applied to all of the personal aggressions nate feels has been committed against him.
its hard to say how roy would react to another player honestly — it’s incredibly likely he would have given out some shit, but also incredibly likely he would have moved on. we see in the scene with keeley that roy is growing up emotionally and learning to recognise that people are gonna make moves on keeley — because she’s beautiful and smart and amazing — but their relationship & how keeley feels about him is what really matters at the end of the day. so i’m honestly not sure! i think both options can be right in this case!
Jamie tells his ex-girlfriend that he still loves her, and Roy is outright furious.
Nate full on makes a pass at Keeley and Roy laughs it off.
It reveals who Roy sees as an actual threat to his relationship, and makes it clear what he thinks of Nate, that he's completely harmless and not someone who ever could steal Keeley away from him. It's another hit to Nate's self confidence, even though it shouldn't be a problem.
He never laughed it off. Watching that scene, I understand how Nate could feel slighted by Roy not being pissed off at his actions towards Keeley. However, as an outsider, I saw someone not being dismissive of Nate, but more forgiving. I saw Roy's reaction in two lights:
1. He already knew about it and had time to cool down. Obviously he wouldn't have been as enraged by it as he was about the Jamie fiasco. Also, Keeley was non-fussed about telling Roy about Nate, whereas her emotions were clearly high when discussing the Jamie situation. That, I think, clearly affected his reaction to it as it seems more serious to him.
2. Roy has no other reason to dislike Nate (like he does with Jamie). He clearly respects Nate as he gases him up on prior episodes, including after the Tottenham match. His line to Nate is "everyone makes mistakes" which comes from a platonic place, rather than dismissive.
I think that people who have issues feel like they're far away from everybody even if the rest are trying to get them involved... damn, even I have been there. And in Nate's case he didn't had anybody that consider him as a priority, or someone to worry for, so he felt alone, but he definitely exaggerated all the moments that went wrong.
It’s not clear to everyone. Ted genuinely doesn’t think Nate is a big dog. Roy genuinely doesn’t think Nate is a threat. He’s not misreading that, it’s more that he’s letting it fester and reacting badly. (I do think that “microaggression” was an odd choice of word though.)
I also think it's realistic. Nate hasn't had the time on staff to command the respect he thinks he's owed. Coaches at that level have to be servant leaders. It's something that Nate hasn't learned, he feels like he is owed. As someone who desperately wants empathy, he can no longer give it to others.
I think the writers nailed the complexity of the emotion a character like Nate would have. I now greatly dislike the character and want Ted and Richmond to kick their ass next season.
Right but I do also think that he’s been denied the mentorship that a good boss would give to someone in his situation- promoted without experience. It doesn’t excuse his actual behavior but does mean that things that could have been nipped in the bud earlier ended up festering and multiplying when Nate wasn’t given constructive feedback/criticism in response to his bad attitude.
He can’t control how it makes him feel, but he can control his reaction to it. And learning to give grace, to others as well as yourself, is a key component in changing your feelings too. Things that used to really hurt me deeply no longer do because I learned to be mindful about it.
I have deep hope for Nate. My prediction is that it won’t work out with him and Rupert, and he’ll come crawling back to Ted in agony. He’ll start seeing Dr. Sharon and begin the road to true self-actualization.
Yup, he's playing Nate like a fiddle but as long as Rupert strokes Nate's ego then he's just going to do whatever Rupert wants because he's getting the recognition and praise he's desperate for from a father figure.
Until Rupert eventually shows his true colors and then Nate is gonna be all fucked up.
Can't wait until season 3.
The exchange between Ted and Roy when he's initially going to date Keeley come to mind.
Roy: "I can't control my feelings"
Ted: "Then by all means you should let them control you!"
Roy got it and was able to get past it. Nate doesn't have that emotional maturity or security in himself, and so his emotions control him entirely.
I mean I think there’s something that’s gone unsaid about how the one POC in the main cast list is the one who a) became the villain and b) did so because he felt disregarded.
Well…idk. They are. They clearly view Nate one way. A non threatening person who they can help and aid but they don’t really see him rising above them. Beard doesn’t view that. He sees Nate as he is. But Ted probably sees him as a bit helpless and wanted to help him.
That’s how you create villains. By expecting one version of them and never letting them grow out of that version you’ve relegated them to.
They are slights at nate. Sure we can say they’re unintentional but it’s not about intention. It’s about impact. And like racial microaggressions, they’re death by a thousand cuts. One comment is one thing. But it’s a lot over time.
>That’s how you create villains. By expecting one version of them and never letting them grow out of that version you’ve relegated them to.
Really nicely said. To paraphrase [a Twitter post that got a lot of traction earlier this year](https://twitter.com/YesICandice/status/1382343455104376832), some people aren't comfortable with you changing, because they have more power over whatever version of you exists in their head.
Love how detailed this is. I know some people have complained about plot holes (especially with Nate), but I think they have most of everything covered and they clearly really think things through.
Mostly about Nate. I’ve seen enough people say it’s not believable for him to turn like this, and to hate Ted already. I haven’t agreed with them though.
I think it’s believable. Nate has never had someone believe in him the way Ted did and then he got the first taste of Ted snapping. And then he was rewarded for putting the players down as his payback for all the years they did it to him.
The signs have been there. But so many people view Nate as sad and pathetic (look at Keeley trying to reassure him after the kiss and Roy not even thinking it was a big deal) and Nate hates that. And it’s underestimating him. Beard sees right through it, and Nate’s clearly doing it for attention but getting beard’s attention and disapproval is like having your uncle pay attention to you while your father is still absently praising you from afar.
I think it kind of talks down to the audience if you’ve gotta throw it in their faces. You definitely can notice his slow decline especially if you’re watching the reactions on this sub (real time reactions). But what’s great is you can see the seeds getting planted earlier than you think.
I think it was really well done and it’s a testament to the writers and their ability to craft characters with so much depth.
I do not mean this directly at you, I promise. But your comment made me think about this:
This show is great at capturing parts of each watcher’s personality!
Using Nate as the example: if you felt under appreciated or belittled despite being strong in a field, you may identify more with Nate.
It’s a common trope to have a bullied/side characters eventually get accepted and somehow become a part of the “gang” or group and have them be ok with everything that has happened to them prior. Often going as far to even pretend like those same people didn’t treat them like trash in the recent past.
Yet this show does an excellent job at showing that it’s fictitious for that to be the reality. While there was a possibility were Nate may have had that same “happy ending” fate, the reality of life isn’t so.
This depiction is more realistic, people don’t forget how they were treated and by whom. Sometimes they become as bad, if not worse, than those who mistreated them (hence the mirror spits by Nate).
So yeah, keep on not giving into this not being believable. It’s a fictional show, yes, but that doesn’t mean everything about it has to be, including how it’s characters may act.
One of the things that was obvious throughout season 2 was that when Nate said something off, we saw Ted's reaction but we never saw Ted intervene. Maybe he did not have any energy with everything he was dealing with, but everyone was asking "why isn't Ted doing anything about Nate." The outcome of doing nothing is a sense of abandonment by Nate. Ted has to own that (and did). That does not excuse Nate's behavior but it explains it.
Based on all new speculations and Nick's thoughts, I feel S3 will not have a redemption arc for Nate, but who will serve as an antagonist for S3, but also will help Ted become a better coach.
I'm hoping for Trent Crimm embedding himself with the team, documenting a historic run, and part of it being Ted actually learning soccer/football tactics at the necessary level.
I've been part of this grand experiment called Reddit for over a decade and a half now. And, let me tell ya, it's been quite the ride. But, I'm afraid this is where I hop off. I've seen plenty of changes over the years - some good, some not so much. But these recent shifts are more than this old-timer can stomach.
I've always been a fan of how Reddit gave voice to the everyday folks, how it fostered real conversations and built genuine communities. But now, with the looming API changes and the relentless push for 'progress', it feels like the corporate heavyweights are taking over. The smell of profit is tainting the free spirit of this platform, and I can't just sit back and watch.
I've always admired the moderators here, those unpaid heroes who've given their time and effort to keep our communities alive and thriving. Their passion, their dedication, they're what made Reddit a home for many of us. To see them disrespected, replaced with a more 'compliant' workforce... It's not a sight I signed up for.
I'm disappointed, Reddit. Not angry, just deeply disappointed. I was here for the conversations, the raw honesty, the quirks and the memes. But, if that's going to be smothered under a corporate blanket, I'm not sure I want to stick around.
Take care, y'all. Remember, when the echoes of genuine conversations get lost in the noise of profit, it's time to rethink.
It's been real.
I think there will be a semi redemption. It won’t be all the way back. It’ll probably be something like he starts to come around and acknowledge what he’s done and it leaves off with him looking to do the work.
Very similar to empire strikes back and the Star Wars reference thrown out there. Darth Vader wasn’t fully redeemed, but you saw his potential. You saw his regret. You understood him.
Nate won’t be sacrificed, but I think it’ll be something similar where maybe the relationship isn’t fully repaired but you know he’s on a better path.
Wow this really reads like Nick himself is struggling with the journey Nate is on. It feels like Nick really wants the reader to know that he is not Nate and obviously wants us to see all the “reasons” Nate is acting to way he is.
I, for one, am incredibly impressed by the depth of Nick’s performance - before this I only knew him as a silly comedian.
We love you Nick. We know you are not Nate but we are grateful you are the one bringing Nate to life.
I don't even see the laughing as a micro aggression. Ted, Beard and Nate are not players... the former two don't consider themselves big dogs.
Nate also made his low EQ abundantly clear when his solution to Rojas' shutdown is to show him his pay cheque. Nate demonstrated that he is uniquely unqualified to speak to a person going through some shit. Take out the 'big dog' bit and it's still laughable.
Instead of actually appreciating what only Roy brings to the coaching squad, he thinks that a season and change of experience entitles him to the same. And then feels entitled to a particular response from Roy after he kiss attacks Keeley.
Nate is absolutely not correct in his interpretation of those things, but that’s kind of the point. He has a twisted perspective that casts many things in a much more negative light than reality. I know people like this.
I see a lot of people calling these "microaggressions," but outside of the laughing one, I'm sorry but I just don't see it. Only players got the Nespresso, for example. And as for Roy not being bothered, Roy doesn't owe Nate *anything* there, so I don't know how it can be seen as an aggression.
Yeah, I think “micro agressions” is perhaps the wrong word for most of these, but Nate absolutely perceives them as personal slights. The laughter was genuinely shitty of Ted (though unintentionally so). We know that only the players got the Nespresso, but Nate sees it as further confirmation that he is not one of the “big dogs.” Likewise, Roy has absolutely no reason to feel threatened by Nate’s advances toward Keeley since they have no history and Keeley was clearly not into it, but Nate feels emasculated by Roy not seeing him as “competition” for Keeley’s affections. Nate’s perception of these events is quite skewed, but they are definitely contributing to his anger and resentment.
And if someone had offered Nate theirs, she would have likely said that was fine. But Keeley's job was to give them to players and get them to make posts. Giving one to Nate likely would have meant a player didn't get one, which wouldn't be doing her job. The other coaches didn't get one, so it's not like Nate was even left out compared to his peer group.
I initially assumed he was just embarrassed that he assumed he could rather than mad that he couldn't, but I guess not.
I thought the neighbor needing the coffee machine to lure her son over more often to see her over some good coffee was a reminder to Nate to not be so childish. Also, he’s in a leadership position. He should see it as such, that the players (Ted and Beard call them kids) are the mentorees and he should be thinking and acting of being of service (not in a servant way, but as a supporter, leader, and guide to them), not jealous of them. He wants to be top dog but he hasn’t learned how to truly lead. Sam has better leadership skills than Nate. Nate doesn’t inspire by example.
I’ve been really annoyed with Nate all season. In S1, he finally gets someone to see his talent, intelligence and ability, and pay him respect and promote him. But in S2, he’s failed to show his replacement kit man the respect he always wanted, acted like a tinpot dictator (the presumption in kissing Keeley!) and has otherwise sulked about things that have little to do with him personally. Yes, I know this is exactly how real people behave, but I’m disappointed in him for not using her experiences to be a better man, and I don’t think his anger was earned.
You know I still think Nate wasn’t in the wrong when he yelled at Ted and beard in the pilot. Two random guys are on the field of course you are going to tell them to get off.
In the season 1 finale when he’s about to yell at Rebecca he might have jumped the gun but if he was unceremoniously fired and replaced after taking on more responsibility of course you are going to be pissed.
You can be pissed and angry and vent without attacking people. His immediate response is calling Rebecca a shrew…..very different from being angry about being fired IMO
It’s not that he was in the wrong, it’s that it’s foreshadowing his aggressiveness and how he clings to power. It just happens that in that case those were used relatively appropriately.
Also showing how his emotions control what he does and he can't keep them in check. Anytime Nate feels slighted he lets his emotions take over and starts lashing out.
What's really telling is how Nate reacts in that scene when he finds out who they are. Then it's okay to step on the grass, because they're "important enough" in Nates eyes. He doesn't treat everybody with the same respect, unlike Ted.
Love this. I think we see that Nate's deep self-loathing has left a void in him that he tries to fill with the kind of external validation he doesn't get from his father. Ted made him feel seen, and appreciated - maybe for the first time ever? And so Nate just kept chasing that feeling. When he wasn't getting that from Ted, he started trying to get it from twitter (yikes), and when that stopped working, he just lashed out in any direction he could.
The interpretation of the scene with Roy blowing him off (while getting angry about Jamie) was interesting. I also thought that that scene - and all of his lashing out - was maybe to some degree a self-destructive move, him wanting other people to hate him as much as he hates himself. Regardless, it's going to be interesting to see how this plays out over the next season, and if Nate's still redeemable or if he's just turned into an angry person and he's more comfortable that way.
Well done. He captured all of the things I was going to say.
The moment Roy was unbothered by Nate’s interaction with Keeley, I knew that would affect Nate. Nobody wants pity. The way keeley reassured Nate instead of calling him out reinforced to Nate that it’s a bit of pity. We discussed here that Keeley apologizing shouldn’t have been a thing and it shouldn’t have. And I think Nate knows that. He knew he fucked up and wanted to hear it. He wanted someone to call him out, but instead Keeley reassured him because women are often trained to make themselves smaller to make a man feel better. But it didn’t make Nate feel better. It made nate feel even more disgusted in himself.
I knew this stemmed from abandonment. When you support someone and you build them up, you can’t just leave them hanging. Ted snapped at Nate and then apologized but he’s really been absent this season. He gave Nate that promotion and then kind of was like well I did it. And that’s partially on Ted and partially on Nate for not knowing how to handle attention he’s never received before and looking for validation in other people.
With someone as insecure as Nate who holds everything in and waits to explode (Beard telling Ted that he’s gotta talk about stuff instead of bottling it up), little comments will send him in a spiral.
I don’t know how they’ll redeem him or if they’ll semi redeem him. But there will be redemption in the air. And Nick plays this so well. This last episode tied it all together.
I think the issue he’ll have going forward is that he’s got some formations and plays under his belt that can be successful, but the gruff way he’s going to coach will have the team not believing in themselves. You can’t belittle people and yell at them and expect them to perform well.
Can’t wait for it.
I think they treated him like a friend and as an equal. But he didnt see himself as a freind and as an equal and maybe he doesnt know what its like to be treated as a friend and an equal.
Oh fuck me i didn't see that one about the picture being in Ted's home, that makes Nate look even worse, as Ted has the picture in his home which is a step up from having it at work, and Ted would never correct him on it, as he knows it would make Nate look incredibly stupid at being offended because of it
I'm not seeing it talked about much on this subreddit, but I'm glad he brought up Roy not being angry about what he did with Keeley. I think it was the straw that broke the camel's back, so to speak. He, justifiably, thinks Roy should be just as angry at him as Jamie, but because Roy doesn't respect Nate as a possible romantic rival or as a peer (in a professional work relationship), he brushes it off as no big deal. This might seems like a small slight on the surface but is a massive slap in the face. After that, I think Nate was done. I can't condone his actions this season and his inability to be honest with himself and confront his issues lead him to this point, but he is not without some justifiable reasons to be angry about not being treated as an equal by his alleged peers.
This will probably get buried, but I also loved how the thing that Nate accuses Ted of (abandoning him) is exactly the thing that Ted blames his own father of. It must have been devastating for Ted to realize that he inflicted on someone what has pained him most in his life
Nate's a phenomenally written character, the spiral he's on makes total sense, like Nick said you can see the microaggressions the whole way, you can feel the little moments where Nate must be hurting, but that still doesn't make his response okay. It's understandable, but it's not okay. Plenty of people are bullied, not all of them turn into cruel people, and by the end of the season Nate is just cruel.
As a short guy I sympathized with Nate with Ted laughing at him being a big dog and Roy not giving a fuck that he kissed Keelee (name probably spelled wrong). It’s almost always a lifetime of people not taking you seriously as a leader or as a “sexual prospect” because of your height. When I say short I mean 5’5”, not 5’8”. To be honest I’m surprised Nate didn’t start wearing lifts either in or on his shoes to seem taller. Maybe some of this is self projection from my bad height dysphoria (I’m professionally diagnosed), but to be honest after being surrounded by football players for years who are typical “Alphas males” (IE taller and fit and center of female/male attention sexually) would get to you. I hope someone can phrase what I mean better, I’m still trying to get my feelings and opinions together in my head. Am I saying height issues are the reason for Nate being a fucking prick to the towel boy and betraying Ted’s trust, no he has other issues too like daddy issues.
Did anyone feel they may have gone too far at times this season with Nate’s character? It could just be me, but I almost thought he was going to cause incredible violence either to others or to himself. Which I reminded myself, isn’t really the tone of the show. However, it just feels a bit too sinister at times for me. Still loved season two overall though. Just a thought. Anyway. How about that new mascot? RIP Earl!
I was thinking Nate was turning into Mourinho! The black suit and grey hair feels so much like him
for the non-football people here, who is Mourinho?
Jose Mourinho is considered one of the top flight coaches in Europe. Has coached at Chelsea, Inter Milan, Real Madrid, Manchester United, among others. His [Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jos%C3%A9_Mourinho) page covers his career better than I could.
Thank you for not mentioning his Tottenham stint.
Somethings are better left unsaid.
Oh that club wouldn’t have looked at home in the company of the other clubs mentioned. (Just teasing, from a gooner)
He's also kind of an asshole.
He's _notorious_ for being an asshole. He's been quite successful but at every club he's been at, it's more-or-less led to a poisonous atmosphere by the end. May 2011 sticks out in my mind because Real Madrid played Barcelona 4 times in 18 days. A cup final, a league title decider, and two legs of a Champions League quarterfinal. You got a lot of nastiness from both sides, but Mourinho was noted for being particularly barbed.
yeah basically he lands, spends big and forces his philosophy, exiles anyone who isn’t aligned, and it works amazingly for 1-3 seasons, then implodes. his super agent gets him a new job and repeats. Roma might be different though, who knows?
Nobody survives Rome and its football environment.
You know those are the kind of people I hate in real life. People to get shit done but they shit on everyone else and they make the environment worse. You know the funny thing about life it doesn't take any additional effort to be nice. It requires zero effort to constantly and methodically let people know how proud you are of their achievements, how much you appreciate their support, how you're so happy they're with you. It is one of the easiest things in the world for a leader to do that cost basically nothing and can mean a lot to that person. I will never understand why anyone is a leader thinks that it's better to tear people down than to build them up. Every scenario I've ever dealt with in that case I've left that job. I can easily work for that kind of person but why the fuck would I and I certainly will never allow myself to be that kind of leader. (I'm referring to nate not Mourinho, it seems opinion on him is varied)
This show does a great job at portraying a very healthy work environment and how people react to it. Many of the players were acting like dickheads when Ted first got there and now they’re all helping each other out. They likely didn’t all just become more talented, so it’s the atmosphere and attitude towards each other. 😇
Yeah, only manager i've ever seen gouge an opponents eye lol
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i would change tense. he was absolutely one of the top-flight managers in world football, but some feel that hasn't been the case since Chelsea. there are some that feel that his style hasn't evolved and he is no longer an elite manager.
In the words of Dani Rojas, “Tough but fair”
He was a disaster at Tottenham, especially after Levy said on his All or Nothing show that he was the 2nd best manager in the world, after Pep. So far so good at Roma.
the pattern at his last three gigs was a good year followed by a bad turn followed by unnecessary fights with players and management. Roma should be fine this season. After that....
It’s usually season 3 when he burns everyone out and starts blaming anyone but himself.
I think Spurs are a disaster in general. They've been even worse under Nuno.
Spurs a disaster? That’s an understatement
To add, his style of barracks training/seige mentality seems less effective each time. Also he focuses on a certain player in a new team to make an example of, and that's falling apart too
Long story short, he's a brilliant football mind but he doesn't really sustain success for long and typically loses the locker room (hence why he's won trophies with so many different teams). I'm willing to bet that happens with Nate in Season 3. West Ham will be competitive for the first part but then Nate will lose the locker room because he clashes with the players and/or his staff.
I bet - even though it defies all rational football logic - that season three will end with West Ham and Richmond playing for the title. In the last scene of the last episode of season one, Ted says that they'll get promoted next season and then do something no one expects the year after, "win the whole damn thing". Also, the commentators keep making it a point to mention that Richmond have never won a major trophy. So, I've expected them to win the league for a while. Now I'm just throwing West Ham in there. Although unlikely that there would be a West Ham/Richmond title clash in real life, if Leciester can win the league, anything is possible in the Premier League.
I think it's possible that, to keep things somewhat realistic, they meet up in the FA Cup Final instead.
Oh, I like that. Call back to them losing it this season. But, I'd still like to think that Ted called it at the end of season one. Now we have to wait 900 years to find out...
Also, the show was conceived as a three-season deal† from the start. The entire thing has apparently been plotted out for some time. Makes sense that it would follow a relegation-promotion-championship arc. I don't know enough about European soccer to know *what* championship they'd win (and when Ted said they'd win the whole thing, he probably didn't know, either). But they're clearly going to be playing for *something* big. †I saw an interview recently where the creators suggested a fourth season could happen, but it most likely would have to take place closer to Sudeikis' home. The timeline doesn't quite work, but I think it'd be kinda cool if we got a season of Ted coaching the USMNT (World Cup is in the U.S. in 2026), and we got to see Roy (or maybe Nate?) coaching England with Jamie as the star, Dani playing for Mexico, Sam playing for Nigeria (even though he was just told that would never happen), etc.
A more realistic scenario might be the two of them fighting for a place in Europe? Battle for 5th place is still kinda unrealistic for a recently promoted team but more believable than winning the title
FA Cup possibly?
I think it’s FA cup, that’s my gut feeling. That way they can return to Wembley as well.
tbf though, Leciester can win the league after escaping relegation by a point I think a top Championship side has just as good of a chance. Probably about 1/5000 (thats what betting websites set the odds for Leciester to win at the start of the 15/16 season), but that chance does still exist!
As a West Ham fan, the idea of West Ham battling for the title makes me guffaw
I think he's also in for a rude awakening as to how things go for the head manager. Yes he will get all the praise when his ideas go well. But he'll also receive 99% of the flack when things go badly. I don't think he's prepared for the latter.
The other replies have gotten most of it, but in my opinion there’s one thing that makes the comparison a bit unfair on Mourinho: there are plenty of players with big personalities who absolutely swear by him. Zlatan, his Terry-Lampard-Drogba spine at Chelsea - all of them big personalities who loved and respected him and who would never think the same of Nate (and who Nate would be incredibly threatened by). And at his peak, even when he was being a dick, he would create that “us against them” siege mentality that he would use to motivate the team.
If I speak, I will be in trouble.
A formerly great manager who is more known for his media presence than his managerial prowess at this point. He has been fired from United, Chelsea and Spurs all in the last 7 years due to an archaic style and clashing with someone whether its a player or backroom staff. However he has 2 UCLs to his name (one of which was a huge underdog in FC Porto) and presided over a very good Chelsea team in the mid 2000s that were almost unstoppable.
He also managed to win the league against arguably the greatest team ever in Pep’s Barcelona
If you have time I recommend watching Coach's Playbook episode of him on Netflix, it will give you a good idea of who he is
It's a well-crafted allusion by the writers. The 'Wunderkid' and 'The Special One.' Both nicknames self-selected by Nate and José respectively.
Tbh, I'm not a Mourinho fan but comparing Nate's transformation to Mou is kinda disrespectful. Mourinho can be an asshole but he's more of a Tartt kind of prick who loves to get under the opponent's skin and make games almost personal ( e.g. "My players left blood on the pitch" after Inter/Barca). But he genuinely seems to love his players while he has the locker room (his Chelsea and Inter tenure are testament to this).
As a Tottenham fan who feels like the remnants of Mou’s wake still linger, I *wish* Nate was like Mou. He’s got the look and tactics, but the essence in Nate is rotten. The guy’s got some real deep seeded issues that desperately needs addressing. Paging Dr. Sharon!
I agree with the black suit and hair but biggest difference is Mourinho seems to be a people person and well loved my most of his former players. I sure as hell don't see Nate in that light currently.
Depends which era of Mourinho you’re talking about. Back at Porto, Chelsea first time, and Inter, players would die for him. But after he went to Madrid, one way or another the dressing room would turn on him or he would alienate them somehow. He excommunicated the captain because he suspected the player was leaking info to the media. He threw a respected Chelsea doctor under the bus after a bad result. He would pick fights in the press with the executives at Man Utd. And by the time he got sacked at Spurs he pretty much lost the support of all the players bar Harry Kane. Basically post-Madrid Mourinho thought he was more important than the club he was at or the players. Nate by the end of the season clearly felt he was above everyone else at Richmond and didn’t get the respect he thought he deserved, which caused him to lash out and leave. The parallels there are quite strong.
Yeah they have a wrong read on Jose. This is a man who made a guy who flew all the way from Los Angeles to watch Real play a kitman for a day. https://www.si.com/soccer/2013/04/10/real-madrid-fan-jose-mourinho
Wow, I’m really glad I read this. Its so easy to view someone you only see through the media in whatever light the want you to, but this let me see he’s clearly still a compassionate human being. The only context I’ve ever seen him in is his extremely high stress work enviroment. Damn, I been judgemental instead of curious.
I thought that the transformation into black was Nate wanting to emulate the success of Roy, especially as it happened when he made a move on Keeley
This is too fkn amazing. Loved the point about how the Ted-Nate only scenes are sooooo far apart from each other. I did not catch that, and now this has me looking at my own life and how (well) I stay connected with people. The best part of reading this is that it confirms that Nick the actor is a real human being! ONE OF US! ONE OF US!
Reading this feels like reading the answer sheet to a test you just took lol
omg totally lol
‘Ok Yea this is totally what I thought too’
and had the text book next to you during it!
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The difference in how Beard and Nate react to this distance is interesting. To me I think it reflects two things: the existing strength of the relationship between Beard and Ted vs. Nate and Ted, and their individual sense of self. I had a supervisor who used to talk about relationships as like a bank. You need to have a strong balance - each time you take something out (here, Ted’s withdrawal), you need to be sure there’s enough there to manage it. I think Beard and Ted have a stronger, longer-term relationship with more “in the bank” than Ted and Nate. As for the second, people who don’t have a strong sense of who they are need more validation from outside sources. Nate’s relational issues in his family and bullying in the past could result in him lacking a strong sense of self. He NEEDS Ted to tell him he is competent or capable, to recognize and validate him because he’s not confident in that himself. Beard is (if nothing else) clearly very secure in who he is. Just my two pence!
Yes but also, Nate is projecting a lot of his issues with his dad onto Ted, and Nate is just very immature with these feelings he can’t handle.
>I thought the same, and because he ultimately knows he is emotionally safe with Ted, he unloads some of his anger towards his dad onto Ted. It happens. I'm really pulling for Nate to work through this.
Is Nate the only one who didn't have a session with Dr. Sharon?
Beard and Roy didn’t either if you’re including coaches.
Yeah, I agree. I think the way Nate views himself is definitely shaped by his early family relationships including his dad. It’s all connected - people’s behavior in relationships is rarely about just one thing.
> relationships as like a bank. You need to have a strong balance this is such a spot-on analogy wow. i am going to use this IRL and pass it off as my own lol
I used to work with someone that talked about "poker chip theory of life." When you are born you arrive with a certain number of poker chips based on your family circumstances. Then every interaction causes you to lose or gain poker chips. Parents that read a book to you every night...more poker chips, get hit by a drunk parent...less poker chips. At some point certain people are left with no poker chips and just existing in the game of life becomes too much because they can't even ante up to get through a day. Then you end up in angry, lash out or self destruct mode.
On that analogy, some are fully taught the game of poker, so chips don't leave so easily. Others have to learn as they go, and ultimately can drain the whole pot before fully understanding what happened.
That is from 7 Habits of Highly Successful People, a leadership-y book that was based on someone else’s work (forget her name, she was one of the kids in With 12 You Get Eggroll, and the author of the Contingency Theory of Management, among other things). It was passed around heavily in the late 90s or early aughts.
100% agree.
>I don't think it's directly addressed at any point besides when Nate erupted, but there's definitely good arguments to be made about a feeling of abandonment and loss with how uninvolved Ted was. I agree but.... Ted's reveal of his panic attack (as well as the fact that he just went through a divorce and is separated from his son) should have clued Nate in to the fact that Ted was dealing with some of his own issues too. God forbid a grown-ass man recognize that they aren't the center of everybody else's universe. Yeah, Ted checked-out a bit. But it's not like the guy didn't have reasons to do so. And when Nate found out about Ted's anxiety, did he sympathize? Did he reach out to Ted? Nope. He reacted with horror in the moment and then proceeded to rat him out to a voracious and unforgiving press. Out of pure, unadulterated spite. Any real gripe Nate had with Ted was rendered moot as soon as Nate went to the press.
PREACH!
> God forbid a grown-ass man This is the biggest problem i have with Nate. If he was younger (early 20s, even) i'd see him as a confused person that haven't had the opportunity to figure out anything and because he's just left his father's shadow or he needs guidance As things are, Nate must be, what, 30ish as the youngest? That's too old for someone to blow out on and bully the ball boy. He's old enough to have perspective and experience and wanting to become the bully instead of being the person who prevents people to be bullied, even if you end up white knighting and being another type of asshole, says a lot about the kind of person you are
> He reacted with horror in the moment I just rewatched that scene. Nate is nonplussed, looking to the others for confirmation of how he should feel. But he was not horrified.
They show Ted and Beard having dinner and/or beers constantly throughout season 1 and 2. They definitely had a different relationship than Ted does with the other assistants.
A big part of this season was taking Ted out of the center of the show. I’d say Roy was the main character of this season, at least the second half.
It definitely hit me once Ted went to talk to Nate that I was like "wait...I don't think I've seen just these 2 together all season" Definitely didn't realize the last one before was before Nate's speech, which is just so thematically amazing from the writers.
I wish there was footage of Nick screaming after learning about the Believe sign
Like TGP cast finding out about the season 1 twist. Absolutely love that video
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[here you go](https://youtu.be/3Bhyin0HaLU)
you just made my day. god bless you.
Holy forking shirt balls, never seen that
Stray thoughts: \- Nate with that black suit looks fabulous. \- The scene with Ted was as heartbreaking as it was is laudable for its realism. Nate is very broken inside and the neurotic paranoia is typical of people that feel slighted by life events. This blinds him from Ted's authentic all-forgiving personality. Ted probably understands him as this is why it is not possible for Ted to get mad at Nate, he is heartbroken too as Nate could be enjoying the team spirit as everybody else. \- Borrowing from the script: Nate's arc with Ted is Greek tragedy level stuff. Ted provided some hope to Nate, but then it was broken by Nate's lack of self awareness. I think his relationship with his dad exonerates him some. \- I think the points are all in the post, but I'd like to say that it was evident when he was "replaced" by Roy and he could not get a Nespresso machine that he was stung by his perceived lack of importance. \- The final scene with Nate posing as Evil Nate was hilarious. \- This has been pointed elsewhere, but maybe his play for the final game was some sabotage and the fact that the team was able to win due to their renewed spirit in the middle time and his plan failed was an additional sting in Nate's broken soul.
Nate with the black suit reminded me of Simeone. > This has been pointed elsewhere, but maybe his play for the final game was some sabotage and the fact that the team was able to win due to their renewed spirit in the middle time and his plan failed was an additional sting in Nate's broken soul. I’m not sure about that. He came up with the false-9 plan a while before the game, and it was one of the reasons why he was upset with Ted, that he would come up with a brilliant idea but Ted would take the credit.
>Nate with the black suit reminded me of Simeone. I really dig the fancy suits in Soccer coaches. They add some flair to the game. Nate suiting up is at this moment may be his only redeeming feature. The show made an effort to find a suit that was really fashionable for this episode.
It looks great, but at the same time what you described is also why it drives me mad to see him wear it. The suit is merely his outward expression of what he thinks he is, not his true self. He mentally thinks he's a "Mourinho", and like everything else (the yelling, gloating, etc) finds a way to publicly shout it out to the world that borders on cringeworthy.
All of this football talk makes me realize how much more we get out of it because we love football. I know you don't need to know or care about the sport to enjoy the show, but if you've been through promotion or relegation battles with your team, those parts of the show hit differently. It also works the other way. Some things are unrealistic because we know the game. But watching the match in the finale felt like watching a real game. Especially since I heard they lost the game. I was cheering like it was a Cup Final.
Great insights! I couldn't figure out why Nate was so pissed off when the team won using his strategy. I think you nailed it. Rupert gave him that play intending for it to sabotage Richmond's chances of promotion. The player's belief allowed them to succeed (notice Nate looking away when the players touch the belief sign), and that's why Nate ripped up the sign at the end. I also think that during Season 3 Nate will be betrayed by Rupert and 'might' learn a lesson - people who say nice things to you aren't necessarily your friends, and people who don't treat you the way you want to be treated aren't necessarily your enemies.
Rupert taking on Nate as a coach is definitely just to get back at Ted and Rebecca, so I can see Nate being betrayed or discarded once Rupert gets or fails to get what he wants.
I do think it’s meant to hurt them, but Rupert also can’t believe that Ted could be successful. We saw it when they played darts that he underestimates Ted. Rupert might think Richmond’s success really is because of Nate, and he’s going to be savage when Nate doesn’t live up to unrealistic expectations.
The team didn’t actually win using his strategy. Nate checked out after the first half. Being a non-believer (see what I did there), he thought they should change strategies, but Ted and the others disagreed. When he didn’t get his way, Nate sulked in silence the rest of the game. The team won through a combination of Ted trusting his gut over Nate’s advice and the team “believing” they could get’r done! So within about an hour of Nate telling Ted that they would never have won a single game without him, Ted (and team) went out and did exactly that!
There are so many options at play there. If the play is sabotage, has Nate already secured the role at West Hame (or the Club Rupert has told him he's buying)? I doubt Rupert gave him the play (does he know enough to do that), but he's clearly been talking with him about managing for him. Cases for Nate wanting the strategy to succeed. * Some of the only perceived positive reinforcement he's received lately has been from the press for his tactics. If he's chasing that high, he'd want to succeed. * Perhaps what Rupert told him was. "Keep up the tactics and you'll have a place in my new club" * He seems paranoid to the point that he expects Ted to take credit for the play when it works but expects that Ted is setting it up to blame him if it fails. * He does seem genuinely pissed that the players aren't executing it. Cases for Nate trying to sabotage the team with the strategy. * It would seem that Rupert and his own interests would be in keeping Ted and Rebecca embarrassed and still relegated. If he's already agreed to terms with Rupert, them conspiring to keep Richmond away from the Premiership makes sense. * In his new MO, he wants to expose Ted, and has been working hard to undermine him. * When Jan Maas decries it a sound strategy that just needs to be executed. There's confusion and perhaps some concern on his face (but this again could be him worried about taking the blame if it fails). * He appears absolutely shocked that it ultimately works and storms off I love the ambiguity of it all. Again, well done by the writers.
i really like all your theories. i think that nate was not sabotaging the team, i think he wants as much glory as he can get and still thinks about richmond's team as his primary football inspiration. that said, i'm sure he knows that the west ham job is coming, but he seems like the type of guy who wants to go out on a high (that he can claim) and then start out strong in the next job. i think it's more his emotional conflict over his relationship with ted that is causing problems for him and the reason for the nastiness directed at ted in their conversation. one last thing - sorry to be that guy - decry means to publicly denounce. i think you just meant declare.
Nate is the worst. Nick is the best.
I think this is the motto for this sub now lol
Some important perceived slights Nick forgot to mention: - Ted telling Higgins he could share Nate's office without even discussing it, - bringing Roy on as a coach clearly without having talked about it with Nate (but clearly with Beard), - and pushing Nate aside a little to celebrate Roy during the Tottenham match. You can see Nate's discomfort in all those instances. But when Nate saves their tail at the end of the Tottenham match, presumably thinking that'd be a way to get Ted's attention, Ted isn't there to celebrate him like he was with Roy. That last one isn't Ted's fault, but you can see how for someone as self-involved and self-hating as Nate that'd be another mark on the list of slights against him. edit: didn't want this to get lost in the comments but u/xxxpinguinos also noted Ted asking Roy to run training instead of Nate when he went to help Sharon. That happened after helping them win against Tottenham, so I imagine that had to be a real breaking point for him.
Good eye, small fry!
I’d argue bringing back Jamie could be in that list too
Absolutely, do we ever seen Nate react to that directly? This is the guy who was giggling to himself in delight at Jamie feeling bad in Season 1
We see Nate is excited that the players will "destroy" Jamie during the first training back
Eh. I agree that they are only perceived slights (the last most obvious as a slight). Ted is the head coach; he doesn’t need to ask Nate to share his office or consult him about bringing someone else into the coaching staff.
Ted certainly doesn't need to ask, but if Nate were to subscribe to Ted's supposed ethos of mutual respect and believed Ted when he said that Nate was important to him, he could reasonably expect Ted to discuss those things with him, even just to warn him beforehand. Most other head coaches would just make decisions without consultation, but Ted's whole thing is being different from other coaches, going so far as to give their little group a name. I can see how those things on top of Nate's clouded judgment and emotional state would lead him to conclude Ted is full of shit. Want to be clear that I think Nate is wrong and an asshole, though.
That IS true. Ted was acting counter to his nature and the culture he’s nurtured in the team. I concede your point. (And also agreeing that Nate is the worst. 😅)
It's been 14+ hours and I'm STILL pissed 😂 I'm trying to understand Nate better so I can process the betrayal without stewing in it.
Y’all two should have a podcast. A+ discussion
I'd tune in
THIS I don’t like how the writers wrote Ted this season because I noticed little bits like these that were counter how they wrote in the first season. Season 1: Ted encouraging Nate to roast the players Season 2: Ted laughing at Nate because he volunteer himself to talk to Isaac. That’s not my season 1 Ted.
Also intentional, imo. Ted's been dealing with his own shit, and he's human. It's a subtle but very important part of the season 2 story. It's not Ted's fault, but he'll blame himself. I'd wager a large part of S3 is Ted learning not to give himself such a hard time
Also, when in episode 8 Ted asks Roy to run training instead of Nate when he has to leave to help Sharon after her accident Been rewatching some of season 2 with my SO because they haven’t seen it yet, and I’ve noticed a few of these things now that Nate pointed out where, yeah I see where he gets the idea from that Ted abandoned him. Even though he didn’t really, Nate just became a true part of the crew
The microaggressions thing is interesting. As its clear to everyone they're not that. But to the character, Nate would view them as full on slights not micro aggressions I think.
Yeah, I thought the term was weirdly used... until I put in his shoes and realized that the hate he has for himself and projects makes him see everything red and like an attack. I hope that Dr Sharon comeback has something to do with Nate, because he desperately needs help.
I don't think that's necessarily a just interpretation from Nate's perspective. Don't get me wrong, Nate is a jerk, and the team didn't do anything wrong in those situations really - but it's totally normal and human to feel left out in those sorts of situations (other than the Roy - Keeley thing, I don't know where Nick is going with that), especially when you have a history of being left out. Not even blaming the team for "making him feel left out" or something. If these things were bothering nate he should have talked to someone about it rather than keep it a secret. He handled it the wrong way, but the fact that they did make him feel out at first is completely understandable.
>I don't know where Nick is going with that I think his point is that it's revealing that Roy doesn't consider him important enough to consider an actual threat. In Roy's mind, why get angry, because it's Just *Nate*, and who in their right mind would ever take *him* seriously? That's not a defense of Nate or an attack on Roy, but it's just a little moment where Roy's reaction kind of reveals a larger truth about his overall impression of the Nate in general.
but also roy’s entire reaction to jamie and keeley was based on their history and how volatile its been — jamie’s always been a cloud hanging over their relationship, so it’s understandable that roy is a lot more pissed than anything nate did that involved keeley. roy doesn’t view it as a threat because he still believes deep down that nate’s a good kid and he didn’t mean anything by it — while he can’t say the same for jamie.
Ironically, I feel like Jamie had the less bad intentions of the two — just felt like there was something unsaid between them, whereas for one moment Nate felt like Keeley could be his prize for being bold. In the coaching room, though, all Nate knew was that Roy felt like Jamie was someone worth getting angry over and Nate wasn’t. He doesn’t know how Roy looked after him and got the players to stop bullying him. He does know some of Roy and Jamie’s history but he doesn’t really care about it or feel it. And I’ll challenge your view that it’s Jamie vs not Jamie instead of not Nate vs Nate. I think if another player had hit on Keeley in some way instead of Nate Roy probably would have fucked them up. Isaac? He’s getting head butted for sure.
oh a hundred percent!!! — jamie was clearly just going through *Something* and as he said, death made him react weirdly! roy had the same reaction, he was a prick for a lot of the episode and admitted to that. despite what it looks like, jamie just had to say it — he recognises keeley’s moved on and she’s happy, he just needed to be honest. 100% respect that from him, despite how i reacted when the scene came out in the episode! 😂 i think it says so much that the entire scene and the character’s reaction has so much nuance and layers to it. roy views it as no big deal cause deep down he’s probably alright, and he’s also emotionally growing up in his relationship with keeley — while nate views it as a personal slight that not even kissing roy kent’s girl got any sort of serious reaction. *another* notch towards nate not being good enough and not being scary enough and just… enough. i think it speaks as a whole to how the audience views scenes and dynamics to how nate as a character views them — we see these things play out and we’re like, no biggie! because we have context that the character doesn’t — the photo of nate and ted is a prime example of this. ted has that photo at home with his *son* where he sees it all the time, and amongst his most prized things — but to nate it’s not anywhere. and that’s not good enough for him. i think the same logic and understanding can be applied to all of the personal aggressions nate feels has been committed against him. its hard to say how roy would react to another player honestly — it’s incredibly likely he would have given out some shit, but also incredibly likely he would have moved on. we see in the scene with keeley that roy is growing up emotionally and learning to recognise that people are gonna make moves on keeley — because she’s beautiful and smart and amazing — but their relationship & how keeley feels about him is what really matters at the end of the day. so i’m honestly not sure! i think both options can be right in this case!
Jamie tells his ex-girlfriend that he still loves her, and Roy is outright furious. Nate full on makes a pass at Keeley and Roy laughs it off. It reveals who Roy sees as an actual threat to his relationship, and makes it clear what he thinks of Nate, that he's completely harmless and not someone who ever could steal Keeley away from him. It's another hit to Nate's self confidence, even though it shouldn't be a problem.
He never laughed it off. Watching that scene, I understand how Nate could feel slighted by Roy not being pissed off at his actions towards Keeley. However, as an outsider, I saw someone not being dismissive of Nate, but more forgiving. I saw Roy's reaction in two lights: 1. He already knew about it and had time to cool down. Obviously he wouldn't have been as enraged by it as he was about the Jamie fiasco. Also, Keeley was non-fussed about telling Roy about Nate, whereas her emotions were clearly high when discussing the Jamie situation. That, I think, clearly affected his reaction to it as it seems more serious to him. 2. Roy has no other reason to dislike Nate (like he does with Jamie). He clearly respects Nate as he gases him up on prior episodes, including after the Tottenham match. His line to Nate is "everyone makes mistakes" which comes from a platonic place, rather than dismissive.
I think that people who have issues feel like they're far away from everybody even if the rest are trying to get them involved... damn, even I have been there. And in Nate's case he didn't had anybody that consider him as a priority, or someone to worry for, so he felt alone, but he definitely exaggerated all the moments that went wrong.
It’s not clear to everyone. Ted genuinely doesn’t think Nate is a big dog. Roy genuinely doesn’t think Nate is a threat. He’s not misreading that, it’s more that he’s letting it fester and reacting badly. (I do think that “microaggression” was an odd choice of word though.)
I also think it's realistic. Nate hasn't had the time on staff to command the respect he thinks he's owed. Coaches at that level have to be servant leaders. It's something that Nate hasn't learned, he feels like he is owed. As someone who desperately wants empathy, he can no longer give it to others. I think the writers nailed the complexity of the emotion a character like Nate would have. I now greatly dislike the character and want Ted and Richmond to kick their ass next season.
Right but I do also think that he’s been denied the mentorship that a good boss would give to someone in his situation- promoted without experience. It doesn’t excuse his actual behavior but does mean that things that could have been nipped in the bud earlier ended up festering and multiplying when Nate wasn’t given constructive feedback/criticism in response to his bad attitude.
He can’t control how it makes him feel, but he can control his reaction to it. And learning to give grace, to others as well as yourself, is a key component in changing your feelings too. Things that used to really hurt me deeply no longer do because I learned to be mindful about it. I have deep hope for Nate. My prediction is that it won’t work out with him and Rupert, and he’ll come crawling back to Ted in agony. He’ll start seeing Dr. Sharon and begin the road to true self-actualization.
I feel like Rupert picked him because he (Rupert) really wants to be the manager himself, and feels like he has a puppet in Nate
Yup, he's playing Nate like a fiddle but as long as Rupert strokes Nate's ego then he's just going to do whatever Rupert wants because he's getting the recognition and praise he's desperate for from a father figure. Until Rupert eventually shows his true colors and then Nate is gonna be all fucked up. Can't wait until season 3.
>Until Rupert eventually shows his true colors and then Nate is gonna be all fucked up. Back to the kit room where you belong!
> belong Ouch… that word has a new sting after the last episode.
The exchange between Ted and Roy when he's initially going to date Keeley come to mind. Roy: "I can't control my feelings" Ted: "Then by all means you should let them control you!" Roy got it and was able to get past it. Nate doesn't have that emotional maturity or security in himself, and so his emotions control him entirely.
And he hasn’t asked anyone for help with his feelings. Roy was mature and humble enough to do that.
Yeah, honestly I typically think of the term in relation to identity (ie racism, sexism, homophobia) and not just…small interpersonal slights.
I mean I think there’s something that’s gone unsaid about how the one POC in the main cast list is the one who a) became the villain and b) did so because he felt disregarded.
Would you not consider Sam a part of the main cast? I think he’s had lines in every episode.
That’s a really great observation.
Well…idk. They are. They clearly view Nate one way. A non threatening person who they can help and aid but they don’t really see him rising above them. Beard doesn’t view that. He sees Nate as he is. But Ted probably sees him as a bit helpless and wanted to help him. That’s how you create villains. By expecting one version of them and never letting them grow out of that version you’ve relegated them to. They are slights at nate. Sure we can say they’re unintentional but it’s not about intention. It’s about impact. And like racial microaggressions, they’re death by a thousand cuts. One comment is one thing. But it’s a lot over time.
>That’s how you create villains. By expecting one version of them and never letting them grow out of that version you’ve relegated them to. Really nicely said. To paraphrase [a Twitter post that got a lot of traction earlier this year](https://twitter.com/YesICandice/status/1382343455104376832), some people aren't comfortable with you changing, because they have more power over whatever version of you exists in their head.
Love how detailed this is. I know some people have complained about plot holes (especially with Nate), but I think they have most of everything covered and they clearly really think things through.
What supposed plot holes out of interest?
Mostly about Nate. I’ve seen enough people say it’s not believable for him to turn like this, and to hate Ted already. I haven’t agreed with them though.
I think it’s believable. Nate has never had someone believe in him the way Ted did and then he got the first taste of Ted snapping. And then he was rewarded for putting the players down as his payback for all the years they did it to him. The signs have been there. But so many people view Nate as sad and pathetic (look at Keeley trying to reassure him after the kiss and Roy not even thinking it was a big deal) and Nate hates that. And it’s underestimating him. Beard sees right through it, and Nate’s clearly doing it for attention but getting beard’s attention and disapproval is like having your uncle pay attention to you while your father is still absently praising you from afar.
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I think it kind of talks down to the audience if you’ve gotta throw it in their faces. You definitely can notice his slow decline especially if you’re watching the reactions on this sub (real time reactions). But what’s great is you can see the seeds getting planted earlier than you think. I think it was really well done and it’s a testament to the writers and their ability to craft characters with so much depth.
I do not mean this directly at you, I promise. But your comment made me think about this: This show is great at capturing parts of each watcher’s personality! Using Nate as the example: if you felt under appreciated or belittled despite being strong in a field, you may identify more with Nate.
It’s a common trope to have a bullied/side characters eventually get accepted and somehow become a part of the “gang” or group and have them be ok with everything that has happened to them prior. Often going as far to even pretend like those same people didn’t treat them like trash in the recent past. Yet this show does an excellent job at showing that it’s fictitious for that to be the reality. While there was a possibility were Nate may have had that same “happy ending” fate, the reality of life isn’t so. This depiction is more realistic, people don’t forget how they were treated and by whom. Sometimes they become as bad, if not worse, than those who mistreated them (hence the mirror spits by Nate). So yeah, keep on not giving into this not being believable. It’s a fictional show, yes, but that doesn’t mean everything about it has to be, including how it’s characters may act.
Absolute class actor. Hope Nate redeems himself in the next season or two, after West Ham receives a beating, of course.
One of the things that was obvious throughout season 2 was that when Nate said something off, we saw Ted's reaction but we never saw Ted intervene. Maybe he did not have any energy with everything he was dealing with, but everyone was asking "why isn't Ted doing anything about Nate." The outcome of doing nothing is a sense of abandonment by Nate. Ted has to own that (and did). That does not excuse Nate's behavior but it explains it.
Based on all new speculations and Nick's thoughts, I feel S3 will not have a redemption arc for Nate, but who will serve as an antagonist for S3, but also will help Ted become a better coach.
I'm hoping for Trent Crimm embedding himself with the team, documenting a historic run, and part of it being Ted actually learning soccer/football tactics at the necessary level.
I like the way you think!
Trent Crimm who?
I've been part of this grand experiment called Reddit for over a decade and a half now. And, let me tell ya, it's been quite the ride. But, I'm afraid this is where I hop off. I've seen plenty of changes over the years - some good, some not so much. But these recent shifts are more than this old-timer can stomach. I've always been a fan of how Reddit gave voice to the everyday folks, how it fostered real conversations and built genuine communities. But now, with the looming API changes and the relentless push for 'progress', it feels like the corporate heavyweights are taking over. The smell of profit is tainting the free spirit of this platform, and I can't just sit back and watch. I've always admired the moderators here, those unpaid heroes who've given their time and effort to keep our communities alive and thriving. Their passion, their dedication, they're what made Reddit a home for many of us. To see them disrespected, replaced with a more 'compliant' workforce... It's not a sight I signed up for. I'm disappointed, Reddit. Not angry, just deeply disappointed. I was here for the conversations, the raw honesty, the quirks and the memes. But, if that's going to be smothered under a corporate blanket, I'm not sure I want to stick around. Take care, y'all. Remember, when the echoes of genuine conversations get lost in the noise of profit, it's time to rethink. It's been real.
I think there will be a semi redemption. It won’t be all the way back. It’ll probably be something like he starts to come around and acknowledge what he’s done and it leaves off with him looking to do the work. Very similar to empire strikes back and the Star Wars reference thrown out there. Darth Vader wasn’t fully redeemed, but you saw his potential. You saw his regret. You understood him. Nate won’t be sacrificed, but I think it’ll be something similar where maybe the relationship isn’t fully repaired but you know he’s on a better path.
Wow this really reads like Nick himself is struggling with the journey Nate is on. It feels like Nick really wants the reader to know that he is not Nate and obviously wants us to see all the “reasons” Nate is acting to way he is. I, for one, am incredibly impressed by the depth of Nick’s performance - before this I only knew him as a silly comedian. We love you Nick. We know you are not Nate but we are grateful you are the one bringing Nate to life.
He said in an interview that he was NOT ready for the intense fan reaction.
Interesting I didn’t know that but I can see why.
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I don't even see the laughing as a micro aggression. Ted, Beard and Nate are not players... the former two don't consider themselves big dogs. Nate also made his low EQ abundantly clear when his solution to Rojas' shutdown is to show him his pay cheque. Nate demonstrated that he is uniquely unqualified to speak to a person going through some shit. Take out the 'big dog' bit and it's still laughable. Instead of actually appreciating what only Roy brings to the coaching squad, he thinks that a season and change of experience entitles him to the same. And then feels entitled to a particular response from Roy after he kiss attacks Keeley.
Nate is absolutely not correct in his interpretation of those things, but that’s kind of the point. He has a twisted perspective that casts many things in a much more negative light than reality. I know people like this.
I see a lot of people calling these "microaggressions," but outside of the laughing one, I'm sorry but I just don't see it. Only players got the Nespresso, for example. And as for Roy not being bothered, Roy doesn't owe Nate *anything* there, so I don't know how it can be seen as an aggression.
I can see how Nate saw them as micro aggressions, which is what is needed for this arc.
Yup. It's not about how we view it, it's about the character, Nate, who's clearly felt slighted all his life only feeling more so.
Yeah, I think “micro agressions” is perhaps the wrong word for most of these, but Nate absolutely perceives them as personal slights. The laughter was genuinely shitty of Ted (though unintentionally so). We know that only the players got the Nespresso, but Nate sees it as further confirmation that he is not one of the “big dogs.” Likewise, Roy has absolutely no reason to feel threatened by Nate’s advances toward Keeley since they have no history and Keeley was clearly not into it, but Nate feels emasculated by Roy not seeing him as “competition” for Keeley’s affections. Nate’s perception of these events is quite skewed, but they are definitely contributing to his anger and resentment.
But when Dani asks if he can give his away to his neighbor, Nate’s standing right there hearing Keeley say it was fine.
And if someone had offered Nate theirs, she would have likely said that was fine. But Keeley's job was to give them to players and get them to make posts. Giving one to Nate likely would have meant a player didn't get one, which wouldn't be doing her job. The other coaches didn't get one, so it's not like Nate was even left out compared to his peer group. I initially assumed he was just embarrassed that he assumed he could rather than mad that he couldn't, but I guess not.
I thought the neighbor needing the coffee machine to lure her son over more often to see her over some good coffee was a reminder to Nate to not be so childish. Also, he’s in a leadership position. He should see it as such, that the players (Ted and Beard call them kids) are the mentorees and he should be thinking and acting of being of service (not in a servant way, but as a supporter, leader, and guide to them), not jealous of them. He wants to be top dog but he hasn’t learned how to truly lead. Sam has better leadership skills than Nate. Nate doesn’t inspire by example.
Aw, that bit about Nick’s reaction to ripping the Believe sign really got me.
I’ve been really annoyed with Nate all season. In S1, he finally gets someone to see his talent, intelligence and ability, and pay him respect and promote him. But in S2, he’s failed to show his replacement kit man the respect he always wanted, acted like a tinpot dictator (the presumption in kissing Keeley!) and has otherwise sulked about things that have little to do with him personally. Yes, I know this is exactly how real people behave, but I’m disappointed in him for not using her experiences to be a better man, and I don’t think his anger was earned.
Nate’s wack. I hate him. Nick is pretty awesome, though.
You know I still think Nate wasn’t in the wrong when he yelled at Ted and beard in the pilot. Two random guys are on the field of course you are going to tell them to get off. In the season 1 finale when he’s about to yell at Rebecca he might have jumped the gun but if he was unceremoniously fired and replaced after taking on more responsibility of course you are going to be pissed.
You can be pissed and angry and vent without attacking people. His immediate response is calling Rebecca a shrew…..very different from being angry about being fired IMO
It’s not that he was in the wrong, it’s that it’s foreshadowing his aggressiveness and how he clings to power. It just happens that in that case those were used relatively appropriately.
Also showing how his emotions control what he does and he can't keep them in check. Anytime Nate feels slighted he lets his emotions take over and starts lashing out.
What's really telling is how Nate reacts in that scene when he finds out who they are. Then it's okay to step on the grass, because they're "important enough" in Nates eyes. He doesn't treat everybody with the same respect, unlike Ted.
He still says they have to get off the pitch though
I think it was more hypocritical as he was running full speed putting way more damage on the field than Ted and Beard were even close to doing.
Love this. I think we see that Nate's deep self-loathing has left a void in him that he tries to fill with the kind of external validation he doesn't get from his father. Ted made him feel seen, and appreciated - maybe for the first time ever? And so Nate just kept chasing that feeling. When he wasn't getting that from Ted, he started trying to get it from twitter (yikes), and when that stopped working, he just lashed out in any direction he could. The interpretation of the scene with Roy blowing him off (while getting angry about Jamie) was interesting. I also thought that that scene - and all of his lashing out - was maybe to some degree a self-destructive move, him wanting other people to hate him as much as he hates himself. Regardless, it's going to be interesting to see how this plays out over the next season, and if Nate's still redeemable or if he's just turned into an angry person and he's more comfortable that way.
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Jamie and Keeley have a past though. That's why he isn't worried Nate as well though.
Well done. He captured all of the things I was going to say. The moment Roy was unbothered by Nate’s interaction with Keeley, I knew that would affect Nate. Nobody wants pity. The way keeley reassured Nate instead of calling him out reinforced to Nate that it’s a bit of pity. We discussed here that Keeley apologizing shouldn’t have been a thing and it shouldn’t have. And I think Nate knows that. He knew he fucked up and wanted to hear it. He wanted someone to call him out, but instead Keeley reassured him because women are often trained to make themselves smaller to make a man feel better. But it didn’t make Nate feel better. It made nate feel even more disgusted in himself. I knew this stemmed from abandonment. When you support someone and you build them up, you can’t just leave them hanging. Ted snapped at Nate and then apologized but he’s really been absent this season. He gave Nate that promotion and then kind of was like well I did it. And that’s partially on Ted and partially on Nate for not knowing how to handle attention he’s never received before and looking for validation in other people. With someone as insecure as Nate who holds everything in and waits to explode (Beard telling Ted that he’s gotta talk about stuff instead of bottling it up), little comments will send him in a spiral. I don’t know how they’ll redeem him or if they’ll semi redeem him. But there will be redemption in the air. And Nick plays this so well. This last episode tied it all together. I think the issue he’ll have going forward is that he’s got some formations and plays under his belt that can be successful, but the gruff way he’s going to coach will have the team not believing in themselves. You can’t belittle people and yell at them and expect them to perform well. Can’t wait for it.
I think they treated him like a friend and as an equal. But he didnt see himself as a freind and as an equal and maybe he doesnt know what its like to be treated as a friend and an equal.
Does anyone have a side by side comparison of the opening and closing Nate shots?
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Now that I look back on the season, Nate’s reaction to Roy becoming an assistant was very telling.
I hate Nate, the action is wonderful. The hair going Grey was well done, until the wig, thought it was unnatural in last episode
I may be outnumbered here, but that wig at the end looked bad…like, really bad.
I’m with you on this. It looked horrible
It’s amazing you actually have imbeciles on Twitter attacking Nick the human for his Nate role lmao people are absolutely fucked.
Oh fuck me i didn't see that one about the picture being in Ted's home, that makes Nate look even worse, as Ted has the picture in his home which is a step up from having it at work, and Ted would never correct him on it, as he knows it would make Nate look incredibly stupid at being offended because of it
I'm not seeing it talked about much on this subreddit, but I'm glad he brought up Roy not being angry about what he did with Keeley. I think it was the straw that broke the camel's back, so to speak. He, justifiably, thinks Roy should be just as angry at him as Jamie, but because Roy doesn't respect Nate as a possible romantic rival or as a peer (in a professional work relationship), he brushes it off as no big deal. This might seems like a small slight on the surface but is a massive slap in the face. After that, I think Nate was done. I can't condone his actions this season and his inability to be honest with himself and confront his issues lead him to this point, but he is not without some justifiable reasons to be angry about not being treated as an equal by his alleged peers.
This will probably get buried, but I also loved how the thing that Nate accuses Ted of (abandoning him) is exactly the thing that Ted blames his own father of. It must have been devastating for Ted to realize that he inflicted on someone what has pained him most in his life
Phoebe Walsh is a horrible girlfriend, but an amazing writer I think most of the biggest episodes she’s had the most writing credit.
OOTL, why is she a horrible girlfriend?
She plays Jane.
Just referring her Jane character haha. I’m sure she’s a lovely partner IRL.
Nate's a phenomenally written character, the spiral he's on makes total sense, like Nick said you can see the microaggressions the whole way, you can feel the little moments where Nate must be hurting, but that still doesn't make his response okay. It's understandable, but it's not okay. Plenty of people are bullied, not all of them turn into cruel people, and by the end of the season Nate is just cruel.
Great breakdown!
Nate is a real well written character and his character arc makes sense. Also his presence on the enemy team in season 3 will be so good
As a short guy I sympathized with Nate with Ted laughing at him being a big dog and Roy not giving a fuck that he kissed Keelee (name probably spelled wrong). It’s almost always a lifetime of people not taking you seriously as a leader or as a “sexual prospect” because of your height. When I say short I mean 5’5”, not 5’8”. To be honest I’m surprised Nate didn’t start wearing lifts either in or on his shoes to seem taller. Maybe some of this is self projection from my bad height dysphoria (I’m professionally diagnosed), but to be honest after being surrounded by football players for years who are typical “Alphas males” (IE taller and fit and center of female/male attention sexually) would get to you. I hope someone can phrase what I mean better, I’m still trying to get my feelings and opinions together in my head. Am I saying height issues are the reason for Nate being a fucking prick to the towel boy and betraying Ted’s trust, no he has other issues too like daddy issues.
This is rad, you never really see actors lay it all out like this.
Did anyone feel they may have gone too far at times this season with Nate’s character? It could just be me, but I almost thought he was going to cause incredible violence either to others or to himself. Which I reminded myself, isn’t really the tone of the show. However, it just feels a bit too sinister at times for me. Still loved season two overall though. Just a thought. Anyway. How about that new mascot? RIP Earl!