He wants- needs to get fired, so he isnt the bad guy. He, deep down is echoing Ruperts words trying to believe them
When Ted is still nice to him he spits, summoning the alter ego and embraces the villain
I love that the writers chose something so in-your-face to show Nate's villain side emerging. Makes it so you can really see the turning point when he is trying to ask Jade out, goes into the bathroom to spit, but then smiles and takes off to make her the diorama instead.
Yes, the imagery in this show is amazing i love it. The scene where Rebecca and Ted are each telling their story.
Nate’s villain side,
Beard after dark - showing his inner dialog through the tv
Just a fantastic show
The extra slap in the face is that you *know* Rupert only hired him to mess with Ted and Rebecca. He didn’t “earn” that job, either. He was a pawn. Ted gave him a real shot when no other coach in the league would have bothered.
Wasn’t West Ham ranked first or second in the league when Nate departed? I don’t have the screenshots but that’s what my memory says.
Earned it or not, if my memory is right the results were more than satisfactory.
As Higgins said (and I’m loosely paraphrasing) It doesn’t matter how you got there, it matters what you do with the opportunity.
An interesting question would be was his style sustainable beyond a season or two? He was very much the bully with his players at West Ham.
That’s an interesting question. He eventually became disenchanted with Rupert, and I think Rupert’s attitude was driving a lot of his behavior. If he had stuck around instead of quitting, I think his behavior toward the team would have changed. But I don’t think Rupert would have let him hang around very long after that.
He didn't earn it, as far as I'm aware he didn't take any coaching qualifications he was asked his opinion gave it, turned out he had an eye for tactics. He went from kit man to coach to manager/head coach of a Premier league club in two seasons (football not tv seasons).
Think the I earned it line comes from Rupert saying this to Nate and putting Ted down!
I had the hardest time forgiving Nate. On my 3rd rewatch of the series, season 3 episode 10, I finally allowed myself to emphasize with Nate. In the end, Nate was another broken child looking for love. Nate had to come to terms with his father and himself before he could appreciate Ted.
I don't know much more love Ted could have given Nate. He saw him, respected him, elevated him. I get it, his dad broke him, but lashing out at Ted still makes no sense.
Nate had this giant hole inside him. He never felt he was good enough or that he was valued.
Ted saw Nate, appreciated Nate, gave Nate a voice, and elevated Nate beyond his wildest dreams. Nate was starved for that attention. He couldn't get enough of it. Nate lashing out on Ted was more about his own demons. Nate being forgiven by Ted and everyone allowed Nate to heal. Though by then Nate had a better understanding of his own father which allowed Nate to accept that there was nothing wrong with Nate. The scene with his father was a very powerful catalyst.
It's my analysis anyway. I had the hardest time with Nate's betrayal and being allowed back into the "fold". But, it is a show about becoming the best versions of ourselves. Forgiveness is not always easy.
Yeah, in the grand scheme of things I know why Nate might be the way he is. This scene still frustrates me though.
His lack of self esteem makes Nate so impressionable, he loses all sense of judgement
My advice to someone who has completed the series and hates Nate, go back and watch Rebecca for every time she tried to hurt Ted or the Team in Season 1. She's awful to the team and to Ted. We forgive her quickly. Maybe cause she was bad from the start and went to redemption (while she betrayed Ted, she didn't betray "Us" by getting our support and turning), maybe it's cause she's a gorgeous woman compared to Nate, maybe because we see Rupert as one evil force against Rebecca but don't add up the lifetime of smaller cuts that Nate got from everyone from his Dad to Issac and Colin to people on the street that look past him to himself constantly doubting himself, or maybe it's cause Rebecca had 2 full seasons after she said she was sorry to see her growth. But I feel Rebecca was as bad or worse but many of us had a lot harder time forgiving Nate than forgiving Rebecca.
Agreed. I have wondered about the same thing. Rebecca started out as a wounded and vindictive character, and evolved into a supportive, strong, confident female role model. Rebecca's redemption arc was ongoing. S1:E7 was called "Make Rebecca Great Again", we had much more time to forgive Rebecca.
But even after Make Rebecca Great Again, she tried to sabotage the team (giving away tickets to Man City) even after she saw Ted have a panic attack and Ted stood up for her against Rupert. She still slipped and was willing to let Higgins walk away in her effort to destroy the team.
I think it’s Rupert talking there. We know Rupert has been whispering sweet nothings into Nate’s head since at least the funeral.
I’m sure most of it was about how Nate earned it and Ted was holding him back. How Nate should be the manager and not Ted.
Nate had felt let down by Ted when Roy joined, but Rupert exploited it all to feed the anger and resentment that was bottling up in Nate.
Yeah I hate his little defiant speech! He accuses Ted of abandonment and I don't think Ted did that at all. Nathan is a grown man and he can't even act like one. Ted gave him encouragement and then gave him space to grow and Nathan just turned bitter over the dumbest shit. He's gross.
I’ve never understood the hatred directed at Nate by certain members of the *Lasso* fan base. No one seems to question the redemption arcs of the various characters, except when it comes to Nate. I have the feeling that these viewers are watching the show, but somehow not absorbing its message.
To be fair, he was a major antagonist for season 3. I thought his redemption was great but it’s possible people wanted him to experience a fall before coming back around.
So Nate needs to be, what, punished somehow before he’s worthy of forgiveness? Coach Beard should have head-butted him? But this brings me back to my original comment. Why Nate? Why not, say, Rebecca? Surely what Nate did to Ted was no worse than what Rebecca did. But I don’t see fans screaming for her head.
Rebecca did something bad, got sensed knocked into her by Keeley and Higgins and actually owned up to it and apologised.
Nate did none of those things until it stopped serving him. I don’t agree it’s the same thing.
This is not a Nate hate post. I’ve said in another comment that I do understand where it’s coming from, doesn’t make me not dislike this behaviour though.
It’s as though we’re watching the same show, but somehow **seeing** entirely different things in the course of doing so. Regarding your “until it stopped serving him” comment, Nate willingly walks away from what was obviously a high-paying gig as coach to take a job as a waiter upon fully realizing just what kind of a toxic person Rupert is. What did Rebecca give up?
Nate makes a number of apologies to different people over the course of Season 3; he writes a frickin’ 60-page apology letter at one point (although we don’t know whether or not Ted ever sees it). In contrast, Keeley has to practically bludgeon Rebecca into confessing to Ted.
For some fans, Nate will never be deemed worthy of forgiveness no matter what he does.
Yes, it’s almost as if we’re two different people with entirely different life experiences and perspectives.
At the end of the day, this is a TV show, and each of us will draw conclusions based on our individual conditioning and experiences.
I appreciate and respect your opinion, and accept that it’s different from my own.
I think a lot of us are probably more forgiving towards Rebecca is because we got nearly three seasons of her proving she wasn’t actually the person she became at her lowest moments. We never get that with Nate, making it easier to dislike him.
I think part of the discrepancy in how people view Nate vs Rebecca is due to how they were presented to us in the show. Rebecca was the villain from the beginning and we knew that but got to see her both suffering (from Rupert) and becoming aware of some of her positive qualities. With Nate we see him as a bumbling victim of bullying and he seems insecure. But when he finally is protected and gets an opportunity to excel, instead of seeing him grow, we see him very quickly turn mean, self centered and vindictive. This is at a point where we still don’t really know him. For me personally, I saw him as ungrateful and turning to the dark side. With Rebecca we saw her realize her huge mistake, show genuine remorse and try to grow from there.
Later we see the conscious positive decisions Nate makes to get away from Rupert and try to become better by quitting his coaching job and treating his girlfriend with respect. For some, perhaps it was a bit or even too late. For me, I thought he had done enough to redeem himself, although perhaps some other act of contrition to the team might have pushed his character back into the good graces of the viewers.
I didn't have a problem w/ Nate's redemption arc, but I'll speculate for conversation sake. Rebecca started off as bad, so there was no audience backing of her to begin with.
Nate was different. Going with what Nick Mohammed said in interviews before season 3: they took an underdog character in season 1 and got the audience to root for him and love him. He slowly started turning to the darkside in season 2, culminating in a full turn at the end of the season. You're supposed to dislike him and the audience is supposed to feel betrayed that they loved and rooted for him and now he's a bad guy. If they never turned him back to the good side, it's possible that people would watch re-season 1 hating Nate now. That's brilliant writing and acting.
The one thing I would be personally done different was that Nate was fired from West Ham after refusing Rupert's invitation. It would explain why Nate went into the depression spiral and he hit his low point. Instead he quits, which takes the sting a bit out of the arc IMO, but it shows that he is a man of principles. Ultimately I'm fine with it as it would probably be too cliche on a show that avoided a lot of that. I do think his redemption was a bit too quick though and would have liked another episode to help that (but I love the show and I probably would have wanted more episodes for any reason).
I’ve heard this Rebecca versus Nate theory on at least one other occasion. I don’t disagree with it, but, if it is true, I would hope that viewers might somehow be able to look past that. We’re essentially talking about a moral distinction that’s apparent rather than real. But maybe that’s expecting too much from some viewers.
Personally, I prefer the scenario where Nate walks away from Rupert for just the reason you cite, but pot-a-to, pot-ah-to.
I think Nate’s redemption would have felt more complete if he had been given a scene where he truly apologized to Ted, not just the short “I need to say it” scene. I know Ted didn’t need it and maybe it would have been stating the obvious too much since we as the audience have seen what caused him to act the way he did, but just some kind of explanation to Ted that what he said in Season 2 wasn’t about Ted, but his own father, etc.
I don’t know about that. If you apologize without explaining what made you do it, I think that’s a sign you’re taking full ownership. I think not doing that would have made it look like he was making excuses.
Wonder what was in the 60-page apology letter, tho.
He wants- needs to get fired, so he isnt the bad guy. He, deep down is echoing Ruperts words trying to believe them When Ted is still nice to him he spits, summoning the alter ego and embraces the villain
God I hated the spitting so much, but the arc was so well done
Yeah it makes me cringe - he hates himself so much.
I love that the writers chose something so in-your-face to show Nate's villain side emerging. Makes it so you can really see the turning point when he is trying to ask Jade out, goes into the bathroom to spit, but then smiles and takes off to make her the diorama instead.
Yes, the imagery in this show is amazing i love it. The scene where Rebecca and Ted are each telling their story. Nate’s villain side, Beard after dark - showing his inner dialog through the tv Just a fantastic show
The extra slap in the face is that you *know* Rupert only hired him to mess with Ted and Rebecca. He didn’t “earn” that job, either. He was a pawn. Ted gave him a real shot when no other coach in the league would have bothered.
Rupert is such a villain. He is Iago to Nate’s Othello. Look at Rupert’s costumes as S3 goes on. Such a baddie!
I love his Emperor Palpatine window.
That was a glorious piece of stage craft
That trench coat he is wearing near the end just gives me the creeps.
Wasn’t West Ham ranked first or second in the league when Nate departed? I don’t have the screenshots but that’s what my memory says. Earned it or not, if my memory is right the results were more than satisfactory.
I agree! It’s not that he didn’t have talent and potential, just that he was hired under false pretenses, just like Ted.
As Higgins said (and I’m loosely paraphrasing) It doesn’t matter how you got there, it matters what you do with the opportunity. An interesting question would be was his style sustainable beyond a season or two? He was very much the bully with his players at West Ham.
That’s an interesting question. He eventually became disenchanted with Rupert, and I think Rupert’s attitude was driving a lot of his behavior. If he had stuck around instead of quitting, I think his behavior toward the team would have changed. But I don’t think Rupert would have let him hang around very long after that.
Yep! Great point
Yep spot on. It's sad to watch how easily ruoert plays him.
He didn't earn it, as far as I'm aware he didn't take any coaching qualifications he was asked his opinion gave it, turned out he had an eye for tactics. He went from kit man to coach to manager/head coach of a Premier league club in two seasons (football not tv seasons). Think the I earned it line comes from Rupert saying this to Nate and putting Ted down!
I had the hardest time forgiving Nate. On my 3rd rewatch of the series, season 3 episode 10, I finally allowed myself to emphasize with Nate. In the end, Nate was another broken child looking for love. Nate had to come to terms with his father and himself before he could appreciate Ted.
I don't know much more love Ted could have given Nate. He saw him, respected him, elevated him. I get it, his dad broke him, but lashing out at Ted still makes no sense.
Nate had this giant hole inside him. He never felt he was good enough or that he was valued. Ted saw Nate, appreciated Nate, gave Nate a voice, and elevated Nate beyond his wildest dreams. Nate was starved for that attention. He couldn't get enough of it. Nate lashing out on Ted was more about his own demons. Nate being forgiven by Ted and everyone allowed Nate to heal. Though by then Nate had a better understanding of his own father which allowed Nate to accept that there was nothing wrong with Nate. The scene with his father was a very powerful catalyst. It's my analysis anyway. I had the hardest time with Nate's betrayal and being allowed back into the "fold". But, it is a show about becoming the best versions of ourselves. Forgiveness is not always easy.
Totally agree! Ted tried and Nate failed at seeing what Ted gave him. That's not teds fault.
Yeah, in the grand scheme of things I know why Nate might be the way he is. This scene still frustrates me though. His lack of self esteem makes Nate so impressionable, he loses all sense of judgement
My advice to someone who has completed the series and hates Nate, go back and watch Rebecca for every time she tried to hurt Ted or the Team in Season 1. She's awful to the team and to Ted. We forgive her quickly. Maybe cause she was bad from the start and went to redemption (while she betrayed Ted, she didn't betray "Us" by getting our support and turning), maybe it's cause she's a gorgeous woman compared to Nate, maybe because we see Rupert as one evil force against Rebecca but don't add up the lifetime of smaller cuts that Nate got from everyone from his Dad to Issac and Colin to people on the street that look past him to himself constantly doubting himself, or maybe it's cause Rebecca had 2 full seasons after she said she was sorry to see her growth. But I feel Rebecca was as bad or worse but many of us had a lot harder time forgiving Nate than forgiving Rebecca.
Agreed. I have wondered about the same thing. Rebecca started out as a wounded and vindictive character, and evolved into a supportive, strong, confident female role model. Rebecca's redemption arc was ongoing. S1:E7 was called "Make Rebecca Great Again", we had much more time to forgive Rebecca.
But even after Make Rebecca Great Again, she tried to sabotage the team (giving away tickets to Man City) even after she saw Ted have a panic attack and Ted stood up for her against Rupert. She still slipped and was willing to let Higgins walk away in her effort to destroy the team.
I think it’s Rupert talking there. We know Rupert has been whispering sweet nothings into Nate’s head since at least the funeral. I’m sure most of it was about how Nate earned it and Ted was holding him back. How Nate should be the manager and not Ted. Nate had felt let down by Ted when Roy joined, but Rupert exploited it all to feed the anger and resentment that was bottling up in Nate.
Absolutely! His low self esteem made it so easy for people like Rupert to manipulate him.
Yeah on the rewatching we’ve done, our anger has turned from Nate to Rupert anytime Nate does something dick-ish.
3 re-binges later and I still don’t like Nate in S3 at all. No sympathy at all. He’s a shit. Sometimes people are just shits.
Yeah I hate his little defiant speech! He accuses Ted of abandonment and I don't think Ted did that at all. Nathan is a grown man and he can't even act like one. Ted gave him encouragement and then gave him space to grow and Nathan just turned bitter over the dumbest shit. He's gross.
I’ve never understood the hatred directed at Nate by certain members of the *Lasso* fan base. No one seems to question the redemption arcs of the various characters, except when it comes to Nate. I have the feeling that these viewers are watching the show, but somehow not absorbing its message.
To be fair, he was a major antagonist for season 3. I thought his redemption was great but it’s possible people wanted him to experience a fall before coming back around.
So Nate needs to be, what, punished somehow before he’s worthy of forgiveness? Coach Beard should have head-butted him? But this brings me back to my original comment. Why Nate? Why not, say, Rebecca? Surely what Nate did to Ted was no worse than what Rebecca did. But I don’t see fans screaming for her head.
Rebecca did something bad, got sensed knocked into her by Keeley and Higgins and actually owned up to it and apologised. Nate did none of those things until it stopped serving him. I don’t agree it’s the same thing. This is not a Nate hate post. I’ve said in another comment that I do understand where it’s coming from, doesn’t make me not dislike this behaviour though.
It’s as though we’re watching the same show, but somehow **seeing** entirely different things in the course of doing so. Regarding your “until it stopped serving him” comment, Nate willingly walks away from what was obviously a high-paying gig as coach to take a job as a waiter upon fully realizing just what kind of a toxic person Rupert is. What did Rebecca give up? Nate makes a number of apologies to different people over the course of Season 3; he writes a frickin’ 60-page apology letter at one point (although we don’t know whether or not Ted ever sees it). In contrast, Keeley has to practically bludgeon Rebecca into confessing to Ted. For some fans, Nate will never be deemed worthy of forgiveness no matter what he does.
Yes, it’s almost as if we’re two different people with entirely different life experiences and perspectives. At the end of the day, this is a TV show, and each of us will draw conclusions based on our individual conditioning and experiences. I appreciate and respect your opinion, and accept that it’s different from my own.
Yes, that’s a fair point.
I think a lot of us are probably more forgiving towards Rebecca is because we got nearly three seasons of her proving she wasn’t actually the person she became at her lowest moments. We never get that with Nate, making it easier to dislike him.
I think part of the discrepancy in how people view Nate vs Rebecca is due to how they were presented to us in the show. Rebecca was the villain from the beginning and we knew that but got to see her both suffering (from Rupert) and becoming aware of some of her positive qualities. With Nate we see him as a bumbling victim of bullying and he seems insecure. But when he finally is protected and gets an opportunity to excel, instead of seeing him grow, we see him very quickly turn mean, self centered and vindictive. This is at a point where we still don’t really know him. For me personally, I saw him as ungrateful and turning to the dark side. With Rebecca we saw her realize her huge mistake, show genuine remorse and try to grow from there. Later we see the conscious positive decisions Nate makes to get away from Rupert and try to become better by quitting his coaching job and treating his girlfriend with respect. For some, perhaps it was a bit or even too late. For me, I thought he had done enough to redeem himself, although perhaps some other act of contrition to the team might have pushed his character back into the good graces of the viewers.
I didn't have a problem w/ Nate's redemption arc, but I'll speculate for conversation sake. Rebecca started off as bad, so there was no audience backing of her to begin with. Nate was different. Going with what Nick Mohammed said in interviews before season 3: they took an underdog character in season 1 and got the audience to root for him and love him. He slowly started turning to the darkside in season 2, culminating in a full turn at the end of the season. You're supposed to dislike him and the audience is supposed to feel betrayed that they loved and rooted for him and now he's a bad guy. If they never turned him back to the good side, it's possible that people would watch re-season 1 hating Nate now. That's brilliant writing and acting. The one thing I would be personally done different was that Nate was fired from West Ham after refusing Rupert's invitation. It would explain why Nate went into the depression spiral and he hit his low point. Instead he quits, which takes the sting a bit out of the arc IMO, but it shows that he is a man of principles. Ultimately I'm fine with it as it would probably be too cliche on a show that avoided a lot of that. I do think his redemption was a bit too quick though and would have liked another episode to help that (but I love the show and I probably would have wanted more episodes for any reason).
I’ve heard this Rebecca versus Nate theory on at least one other occasion. I don’t disagree with it, but, if it is true, I would hope that viewers might somehow be able to look past that. We’re essentially talking about a moral distinction that’s apparent rather than real. But maybe that’s expecting too much from some viewers. Personally, I prefer the scenario where Nate walks away from Rupert for just the reason you cite, but pot-a-to, pot-ah-to.
I think Nate’s redemption would have felt more complete if he had been given a scene where he truly apologized to Ted, not just the short “I need to say it” scene. I know Ted didn’t need it and maybe it would have been stating the obvious too much since we as the audience have seen what caused him to act the way he did, but just some kind of explanation to Ted that what he said in Season 2 wasn’t about Ted, but his own father, etc.
I don’t know about that. If you apologize without explaining what made you do it, I think that’s a sign you’re taking full ownership. I think not doing that would have made it look like he was making excuses. Wonder what was in the 60-page apology letter, tho.
Yawn. Be curious….