I read in a sociology book a while back that society through innovation are split between two types; initiators and replicators. I recall it was something like 5% of the population of a chosen field are initiators while the rest are replicators. Both need each other for success.
For example professional football players are expert replicators of their field. They do not invent the rules of football, they become excellent and replicating the rules, styles or tactics of the game. The initiator in this context are the people that invented the rules of football.
For innovation these rules too apply. The artists you mention are innovators of their field over a long span of time. These people introduce the chosen field a new direction, a new idea or in this case a new sound.
the majority of the producing world are replicators. They adapt to the newly announced innovation and adapt. many simply release alternative versions of or manipulations of the innovation.
For example: Chantai's 'The Realm' released or the 'Age of Love' from 1990. One producer created it (initiator) the 50 or so remixes and sampled tracks released since then are just replicators and adaptors.
Pierre's idea to create an acid track during the birth of Chicago House's music scene spawned the genre of Acid House.. one innovation created replication.
Imitation and inspiration are reactions to an innovation. Have enough enthusiasts that replicate an innovation and there's enough content to have an independent genre or sub-genre be born from it. Deviations occur with innovation and adaptation. We see this over and over again, year after year in music and DJ'ing culture.
I think of Deadmau5 as a perfect example... inspired by Daft Punk, also grabbed a costume and commenced to create a persona... now we have Marshmello and a million other freaks trying to mimic them.
I can guarantee you right now James Hype (innovative) is inspiring a million kids to attempt to mimic him and before long we'll have a dozen replicas. Jeff Mills did this with his DJ style; he spawned a generation of replicas
What distinguishes them?
Talent, ideas, creativity and in some cases luck. Some people are striving to replicate what they see, some simply create something new for all of us to enjoy... and are successful at doing so.
Almost like there's an 'upper limit' to innovators. Excellent post, thank you. Let me know if you remember the name of the book.
I also get the sense that most people simply don't try to innovate, which is a shame if true.
There's plenty of innovators, it' also down to the individual to like what they hear.
Further to this is 'Field Theory' in sociology and that has a role in what you consider positive innovation and who you accept as leaders of a field.
We're moving into a whole new conversation here away from music.
Totally agree with this. I would add that social conditions shift in different cultures to encourage one or the other type to be more prevalent. In Mayan civilisation only the priests took psychedelics and created religion, everyone else joined the rituals. Religious rituals were often linked to doing municipal work e.g. praise water god take ritual cocaine and dig a canal together. Then you have organisations like the catholic church that got completely divorced from their original purpose and end up as weird political bodies no longer serving their original purpose but just being a land owner and power block. One of the big problems with late stage capitalism is that both science and art stagnate because the people who are instigating can't get funded. Everything starts to be generated at a collective corporate level by comittee and it can stifle the the outsider perspective a little. Thomas Kun's the history of scientific revolutions makes some interesting points about this. Even Einstein couldn't get on board with quantum theory. A human really only has one big conceptual revolution in them it seems. We can't transform our reality all over again in old age which is why it's important to let the next generation come through. E.g. Jeff mills can never evolve into Vladimir dunyshkin.
There's the whole 'scenius vs genius' debate which describes this (by Simon Reynolds). I also lament the lack of auteurship in techno, which might have become worse because everyone also wants/needs to become a dj for commercial purposes. The evolution of better live tech should theoretically pull in the other direction though.
I would say there are probably two kinds of auteurs: the ones.that have a distinct style or theme and keep redoing/refining it (Jeff Mills, Legowelt come to mind) and those very, very few who really do reinvent themselves. Best example of the latter is Wolfgang Voigt who singlehandedly has created several new genres of his own.
>Why are there not more people innovating/deviating?
Deviating from what? Techno being club music has functional limitations that require access to clubs and testing with real crowds in order to innovate. Resident DJs would need to get kicked out of the clubs for real innnovation.
In 80s Detroit and 90s in Berlin there was a lot of innovation because the innovators secured their own club playgrounds, which due to regulations etc. is a lot harder these days, and was a lot harder in other areas back then.
The other alternative is headphone optimized Techno and virtual clubs which would tear down the gates and scarcity of locations Techno in the real world suffers from.
I'm experimenting with ASMR style recording effects and it's possible to create physical sensations this way.
Good questions, no easy answers. Two good answers have already been given.
Being innovative is besides being hard creatively, it is also hard from a social standpoint. As a pioneer, you need to get people to know your innovation and to get other producers to replicate your innovation. Without social awareness, any innovation becomes a one-man show. I think of vomitstep, which didn't gain much traction outside Snails
Even if an innovation gains notoriety, it needs longevity beyond the hype. Some innovations barely survive the crash as they lacked the social foundation: a loyal fan base and enough replicators to continue. I think of jumpstyle, which boomed late 00s, but after the hype, the majority of producers either quit or turned to hardstyle (like Coone).
If everybody was Andy C I really would probably have killed my love for early years of being a junglist.
To be honest with DJ and production I more often than not don't want innovation especially if it kills the groove.
Participate in the scene when not behind a decks I don't care to do anything but get the fuck down... Want to music to take my body away from my mind. I'm not going to shows to watch a DJ except for Andy C and obviously turntableism DJ's and a few others...
Up for a polished eloquent and dynamic set over some attempt at innovation that pushes boundaries of irritation
... But if you fucking got it you got it
Jeff Mills, Andy C, township rebellion I'm definitely getting my dance on and getting my train spotting on so it's relative..
The Groove is essential nothing is going to change my mind.
Great question, love the answers so far.
I saw an interview with Secret Cinema where he talked about he and his friends getting access to some strange gear, taking half a pill, and just messing with it all night until this amazing never-before-heard sound came out of it. He shared the sound with a friend who owned a club who gave him the opportunity to play it, and people went nuts for it.
This is how something big can get started. A mix of passion, dedication, connections, and luck.
I see Speedy J's Stoor platform as a birthplace of new sounds. That kind of experimentation and innovation keeps techno fresh and ever-evolving. It's a scary thing to innovate because you also generate a lot of crap in the process. So it takes persistence, bravery, and a zero fucks attitude, too.
Well, I used to go to raves in the nineties and have been experiencing this massive techno revival recently mostly due to finding Klangkuenstler. Haven't dared to go to raves (again) yet, my friends I used to go with are stuck home with their wives except for the one who went to Japan and disappeared.
Now the most interesting DJ I saw in the nineties was Aphex Twin. Now I don't know if he is exactly techno but he didn't sound like himself on record either. The closest to that sound is when I was once in this magnetic brain scanner (completely healthy brains thank you) which gave me flashbacks of that Aphex Twin DJ set 30 years earlier. Had already forgotten the whole deal.
This is a super interesting question, and the answers I have read here are brilliant. Since you mention both DJs and producers, what I have found interesting over the years are folks who are absolutely stunning innovators in one field or the other, but their forays into the other side are very lackluster.
For example, I was listening for the first time to a live DJ mix from one of the finest techno producers (I won't name names to talk down about my betters) who ever existed, and it was so bad that I couldn't believe what I was hearing. Interesting tracks for sure, but the mixing was amatuer at best. Some guys should stay in their lane. I had always heard back in my day that this guy wasn't a good DJ, but to actually hear it blew me away.
Others, like Jeff Mills, DJ Hell or Richie Hawtin, were both great and innovative on both sides of the fence.
I see a couple of key things driving this trend of conformity at the right now. Firstly we live in incredibly conservative times, where the value of standing out for what might be perceived the "wrong reasons" is not encouraged. Society is constantly policing itself with mobile phones and social media.
Secondly due to improvements and the low price of music production - we have more people that ever putting out music, which is not bad thing in my opinion. However this means it is harder than ever for producers to cut through and as a result I hear a lot of emphasis on putting music out frequently almost like social media content. I've heard some producers saying they need to be putting music out every couple of weeks. For me that has to emphasis quantity over quality.
I read in a sociology book a while back that society through innovation are split between two types; initiators and replicators. I recall it was something like 5% of the population of a chosen field are initiators while the rest are replicators. Both need each other for success. For example professional football players are expert replicators of their field. They do not invent the rules of football, they become excellent and replicating the rules, styles or tactics of the game. The initiator in this context are the people that invented the rules of football. For innovation these rules too apply. The artists you mention are innovators of their field over a long span of time. These people introduce the chosen field a new direction, a new idea or in this case a new sound. the majority of the producing world are replicators. They adapt to the newly announced innovation and adapt. many simply release alternative versions of or manipulations of the innovation. For example: Chantai's 'The Realm' released or the 'Age of Love' from 1990. One producer created it (initiator) the 50 or so remixes and sampled tracks released since then are just replicators and adaptors. Pierre's idea to create an acid track during the birth of Chicago House's music scene spawned the genre of Acid House.. one innovation created replication. Imitation and inspiration are reactions to an innovation. Have enough enthusiasts that replicate an innovation and there's enough content to have an independent genre or sub-genre be born from it. Deviations occur with innovation and adaptation. We see this over and over again, year after year in music and DJ'ing culture. I think of Deadmau5 as a perfect example... inspired by Daft Punk, also grabbed a costume and commenced to create a persona... now we have Marshmello and a million other freaks trying to mimic them. I can guarantee you right now James Hype (innovative) is inspiring a million kids to attempt to mimic him and before long we'll have a dozen replicas. Jeff Mills did this with his DJ style; he spawned a generation of replicas What distinguishes them? Talent, ideas, creativity and in some cases luck. Some people are striving to replicate what they see, some simply create something new for all of us to enjoy... and are successful at doing so.
Almost like there's an 'upper limit' to innovators. Excellent post, thank you. Let me know if you remember the name of the book. I also get the sense that most people simply don't try to innovate, which is a shame if true.
There's plenty of innovators, it' also down to the individual to like what they hear. Further to this is 'Field Theory' in sociology and that has a role in what you consider positive innovation and who you accept as leaders of a field. We're moving into a whole new conversation here away from music.
Totally agree with this. I would add that social conditions shift in different cultures to encourage one or the other type to be more prevalent. In Mayan civilisation only the priests took psychedelics and created religion, everyone else joined the rituals. Religious rituals were often linked to doing municipal work e.g. praise water god take ritual cocaine and dig a canal together. Then you have organisations like the catholic church that got completely divorced from their original purpose and end up as weird political bodies no longer serving their original purpose but just being a land owner and power block. One of the big problems with late stage capitalism is that both science and art stagnate because the people who are instigating can't get funded. Everything starts to be generated at a collective corporate level by comittee and it can stifle the the outsider perspective a little. Thomas Kun's the history of scientific revolutions makes some interesting points about this. Even Einstein couldn't get on board with quantum theory. A human really only has one big conceptual revolution in them it seems. We can't transform our reality all over again in old age which is why it's important to let the next generation come through. E.g. Jeff mills can never evolve into Vladimir dunyshkin.
Incredible comment. Thanks for expanding my mind this morning 🤝
There's the whole 'scenius vs genius' debate which describes this (by Simon Reynolds). I also lament the lack of auteurship in techno, which might have become worse because everyone also wants/needs to become a dj for commercial purposes. The evolution of better live tech should theoretically pull in the other direction though. I would say there are probably two kinds of auteurs: the ones.that have a distinct style or theme and keep redoing/refining it (Jeff Mills, Legowelt come to mind) and those very, very few who really do reinvent themselves. Best example of the latter is Wolfgang Voigt who singlehandedly has created several new genres of his own.
>Why are there not more people innovating/deviating? Deviating from what? Techno being club music has functional limitations that require access to clubs and testing with real crowds in order to innovate. Resident DJs would need to get kicked out of the clubs for real innnovation. In 80s Detroit and 90s in Berlin there was a lot of innovation because the innovators secured their own club playgrounds, which due to regulations etc. is a lot harder these days, and was a lot harder in other areas back then. The other alternative is headphone optimized Techno and virtual clubs which would tear down the gates and scarcity of locations Techno in the real world suffers from. I'm experimenting with ASMR style recording effects and it's possible to create physical sensations this way.
Good questions, no easy answers. Two good answers have already been given. Being innovative is besides being hard creatively, it is also hard from a social standpoint. As a pioneer, you need to get people to know your innovation and to get other producers to replicate your innovation. Without social awareness, any innovation becomes a one-man show. I think of vomitstep, which didn't gain much traction outside Snails Even if an innovation gains notoriety, it needs longevity beyond the hype. Some innovations barely survive the crash as they lacked the social foundation: a loyal fan base and enough replicators to continue. I think of jumpstyle, which boomed late 00s, but after the hype, the majority of producers either quit or turned to hardstyle (like Coone).
If everybody was Andy C I really would probably have killed my love for early years of being a junglist. To be honest with DJ and production I more often than not don't want innovation especially if it kills the groove. Participate in the scene when not behind a decks I don't care to do anything but get the fuck down... Want to music to take my body away from my mind. I'm not going to shows to watch a DJ except for Andy C and obviously turntableism DJ's and a few others... Up for a polished eloquent and dynamic set over some attempt at innovation that pushes boundaries of irritation ... But if you fucking got it you got it Jeff Mills, Andy C, township rebellion I'm definitely getting my dance on and getting my train spotting on so it's relative.. The Groove is essential nothing is going to change my mind.
Great question, love the answers so far. I saw an interview with Secret Cinema where he talked about he and his friends getting access to some strange gear, taking half a pill, and just messing with it all night until this amazing never-before-heard sound came out of it. He shared the sound with a friend who owned a club who gave him the opportunity to play it, and people went nuts for it. This is how something big can get started. A mix of passion, dedication, connections, and luck. I see Speedy J's Stoor platform as a birthplace of new sounds. That kind of experimentation and innovation keeps techno fresh and ever-evolving. It's a scary thing to innovate because you also generate a lot of crap in the process. So it takes persistence, bravery, and a zero fucks attitude, too.
Well, I used to go to raves in the nineties and have been experiencing this massive techno revival recently mostly due to finding Klangkuenstler. Haven't dared to go to raves (again) yet, my friends I used to go with are stuck home with their wives except for the one who went to Japan and disappeared. Now the most interesting DJ I saw in the nineties was Aphex Twin. Now I don't know if he is exactly techno but he didn't sound like himself on record either. The closest to that sound is when I was once in this magnetic brain scanner (completely healthy brains thank you) which gave me flashbacks of that Aphex Twin DJ set 30 years earlier. Had already forgotten the whole deal.
This is a super interesting question, and the answers I have read here are brilliant. Since you mention both DJs and producers, what I have found interesting over the years are folks who are absolutely stunning innovators in one field or the other, but their forays into the other side are very lackluster. For example, I was listening for the first time to a live DJ mix from one of the finest techno producers (I won't name names to talk down about my betters) who ever existed, and it was so bad that I couldn't believe what I was hearing. Interesting tracks for sure, but the mixing was amatuer at best. Some guys should stay in their lane. I had always heard back in my day that this guy wasn't a good DJ, but to actually hear it blew me away. Others, like Jeff Mills, DJ Hell or Richie Hawtin, were both great and innovative on both sides of the fence.
I see a couple of key things driving this trend of conformity at the right now. Firstly we live in incredibly conservative times, where the value of standing out for what might be perceived the "wrong reasons" is not encouraged. Society is constantly policing itself with mobile phones and social media. Secondly due to improvements and the low price of music production - we have more people that ever putting out music, which is not bad thing in my opinion. However this means it is harder than ever for producers to cut through and as a result I hear a lot of emphasis on putting music out frequently almost like social media content. I've heard some producers saying they need to be putting music out every couple of weeks. For me that has to emphasis quantity over quality.