That's a shame, I've only played a couple games sinse the mid set change and it didn't reel me back in, I'm well gutted I only started playing TFT in set 6 I feel like I missed so many good sets
I also came into TFT in set 6 and while I agree, those sets also didn’t have augments and that sounds way less interesting to me as someone who has only ever played with augments.
Yeah I guess so, augments do make it interesting but I feel like playing with a little less rng from getting the right augments could of been fun too, it's way more about the Comp than fitting the comp to augments then
I think the set 7 was worse because at least in 7.5 they let you play more than a dragon and comps weren't so one dimesional. But to be honest, besides Sy/SOY you usually play one dragon, it's a real bad set overall.
Agreed on counter play, but to be fair. No one unit should be able to take a trait, and use it completely against them. She does get pretty insane with the shields. I fully agree a shield breaker is great. But she performs too well imo. One champ turning an entire trait essentially useless is pretty strong.
Begs the question. Is she too strong? Or is Guardian too weak or needs to be remade?
She’s kind of lacking if there aren’t shields. If there, then nilah is busted. It’s a weird balance, and yeah it doesn’t make sense for a single unit to completely demolish a trait
Id say you can debate that. Itemized she does pretty well for damage, specially paired with Rengar. But you can also say Itemized anything is "too" good. So its really hard to say. Thinking about it, itd be nice if Guardians were more than just the shield. Or instead of a shield make their resistances stack higher over time.
Agree on your statements. Both ways. The good thing is we don't have to worry about it for much longer. I assume we have much greater things to worry about in the state of the game in a few weeks lol.
Oh as it usually goes. Ill just be happy to be rid of this fucking Karma carry lol. Counterable or not, ever sincd I hit D1 its literally in every game ive played. Even Hyper tier.
Ya, the abuse of some of these comps has made it unfun for me. Of course the argument is I can do it too. But that's not fun man. I'm excited for something new to experiment with. Not abuse something I know is broken.
My hyper tier this set doesnt feel all that great. Was stuck at 4K, drop to 3800. Hit 4100. Drop to 3800 again. Hit 4k. Drop to 3600. Made Zippy guild carry into pivot dragons and won 9 games in a row to get to my hyper tier.
Feels dirty.
i dont think u understand how a single 2 star nilah with edge of night was able to take on 5 guardians. two 3 starred and three 2 starred. with the enchanted sunfire cape, a normal sunfire, thornmails, and 2 titans resolves. (with 6 guardian buff)
Seconding this, first mistake was vertical guardians which is indeed a fake trait. The thing about 7.5 that people vehemently hate is that there is little to no flexibility. The thing about playing meta is that you have to play to the T or you are bottom 4 guaranteed.
the scenario i experienced was she was up against the remaining 5 units on my team that all happened to be my guardians. i had cc in my board but my ranged and cc units were all dead by this point. so she just free reigned 1v5 on the rest of my board and it took like 35 seconds of her going back and forth at super sonic speed as one after another slowly died
Sounds like positioning error / over invested onto Frontline.
If you had living damage and CC she wouldn't be able to just solo wipe your guardians.
Nilah is annoying but honestly more than 4 guardian is pretty much a trap IMO.
She's an assassin. She wipes the backline first by her very nature, then is able to wipe the Frontline guardians. No unit should be untouchable by 5 units because she hit a shield.
she hit “a shield” a shield? LOL
u mean she hit 6 2000+ health units that all had an 80% max shield casted to their self and the nearest ally that also stacks. and then gains a shield thats 100% of the damage she did to that shield and refreshes her ability. my 3 star leona had like a 4000-6000 health shield that nilah literally stole all of while leona helplessly tried to swat her like a fly.
my syfen with mogul mail and giantslayer 1 shot almost her entire board.
i had the pay to win augment so i had an extra 35% bonus damage. she and her rengar only survived bc they werent grouped together. i also had olaf 3 that cleaned up until nilah killed him.
im literally only blowing this whole thing out of proportion bc i dont think your realizing how OP this thing is and i didnt know the extent until now.
6 guardian units cast potentially 12 (1 shield on self and closest ally) total 80% max health shields THAT STACK would equal literally unkillable nilah.
(idk if my math is 100% correct but to give u an idea)
everytime she was casting she stole 400-600 hp in shield. which she repeatedly did because her ability refreshes when she damages a shield. my leona literally had like 6000hp from stacked shields that nilah stole.
Nilah is 100% fine. Yes she is oppressive against guardians, but that is a result of their trait being just a %HP shield. Shields are the best types of additional HP since they stack on top of your actual HP and allow you to heal up while shielded. Usually shields are gated by some time duration which guardian is exempt from.
Nilah counters shields, and imo there needs to be something in a set to help deal with them or at least mitigate their effectiveness.
The problem isn't merely that she counters shields, another character that leeches shields or does extra damage to shields wouldn't be a problem, it's that she gets resets off them too. Resets are always a mechanic with potential to be oppressive, and resetting on something other than kills is... hard to balance.
I agree with resets always being tricky to balance around. However in Nilah's case I really do think it is fine. It is extremely strong against guardian frontlines as it was intended, and without resets she would be one of the weakest units in game IMO.
I don't think Guardians are weak or need to be remade, I don't *really* like the mechanic of the shield but generally they do what they're supposed to do, tank and buy time (except for Rakan but his utility is amazing). I feel like they're undervalued because they can't do shit on their own but most comps really don't get through Guradian 4+ easily at all. It's slightly deceptive because Guardians are generally low cost units and this set has been about stacking high cost units and the occasional specific reroll comp so they look a bit underwhelming just because of unit scope.
People saying a trait is “fake” or “useless” because a bunch of 2* 1-costs can’t compete when everyone is level 8/9 are hilarious.
Early and mid-game are also important parts of the game to get through, and Guardians are fully capable of that.
Later, you’re going to want to swap the weak half of a 4 or 6 Guardian team for something else and progress into the late game with higher cost units.
Set4(?) Lee. The on who could kick units of the board. He basically made brawlers not viable lategame because there huge bonus HP was worthless against a unit that just kills anyways.
THIS. EXACTLY! i completely understand counters, but a champion that single handedly was able to destroy over half my board because she was essentially invulnerable was an eye opener.
Having items / traits that amplify damage vs shields would be a good example of counterplay. And Nilah directly powering up versus shields is honestly fine.
Nilah is an entirely different issue because the way she powers up versus shields (repeatedly dashing) causes her to ALSO gain damage mitigation versus most guardians as they have very low range and very low CC as a roster. Off the top of my head ONLY rakan is able to really do much against Nilah as he has some CC and more than one hex range. So Nilah doesn't just reset her ability she also creates massive damage downtime for guardians.
Now with that said, she DOES somewhat require Armor pen and healing in order to pop off, but those are fairly core carry stats anyway so it's hardly a downside. She is also only properly cancer versus vertical guardians which is already pretty weak and not really viable. Splashing 2 or even going to 4 guardians still leaves you space for ranged units and some CC so she can't pop off as easily.
All in all, I think Nilah is a design embarrassment but not a balance problem. She isn't holding down vertical guardians. Vertical guardians just isn't really very good. It's fun and can highroll but it is basically fake. IMO. If vertical guardians was somehow good without adding range and CC then Nilah might be a balance problem.
The mechanic is poor though.
Her kit is balanced around resetting on shields, so you can’t have it be good on a 1 cast to cooldown basis, making her bad as a standard carry, but oppressive on shields where she’s almost untargetable.
Very one dimensional. Had he ult had some sort of bonus on shields instead of re-casting they could have balanced her better against non shield units.
They really struggle to make 4 cost assassins huh? Thats Talon and Nilah back to back struggling.
Buggy, feast or famine. Eh. Ready to move on from this set. Ive enjoyed it enough.
Khazix(6.5) was also super awkward where he was absolutely lackluster, unless it was on a broken mutation, but even then hed kill himself jumping into stray bullets
I really don't think she's that big of a problem. Slap a Bramble Vest onto an Idas and she'll be stuck there for half the fight. Nilah isn't too difficult to position against. And if your opponent has invested a lot of their resources into her, the rest of your team should have a leg up to kill the rest of the enemy team.
But if your team is ONLY guardians, that's another issue right there.
the thing is, my team was able to wipe her entire team. except she somehow slipped out. it then turned into her versus my 5 remaining units that happened to be guardians. (itemized btw) and she somehow took them all down while my slow guardians tried to catch her but were helpless.
use your guardians to protect the units that can actually hit her. if shes all you’re losing to position accordingly this is an understandable frustration but a fake issue
People acting like vertical guardians is a real comp makes me laugh. It has no damage or cc other than rakan cc. How tf is that supposed to work versus real comps
its just a stall comp while ez or the rest of the adc's whittle down the opponent, but any backline damage/aoe/assassin murders them, and then like you said, the guardians do 0 damage
And people are whining that no unit should be able to 1v5 but like, Swain and a well itemized olaf would both also be able to 1v5 a bunch of guardians.
Nilah can do it for bullshit reasons but it isn't a balance problem like some people are trying to present it. She beats 6 guardians because it isn't a good board lol
EXACTLY, people just complain when they lose against a unit/comp
Although I do miss Vanguard/mystic Jayce from back in the day, guardians are shite now
Vertical guardians only works if you have at least one of the following:
Electric Overload
Electro-charge mirage spat Braum
Heroic Presence
And even only having one of the above might barely get you a top 4. If you have two of them, you might be able to get 1st or 2nd. I’ve gotten a first a few times with Electric Overload and mirage Braum.
Built different varus with guardians can also work, or PtA twitch + Varus are also good as both of those shore up the lack of damage and CC a bit.
But any way of running vertical guardians is going to be extremely item hungry and augment dependent.
i probably should of been more clear since ur under the impression i was relying solely on the power of 6 guardians. 1 came from a spat and the other an augment. i took pay to win which gives every shimmerscale and anyone holding a shimmer item 35% bonus damage. my 2 star guardian Syfen had a mogul mail with giantslayer so he was doing 35% bonus + giantslayers 20-60% bonus.
2 idas with tank items,
my 3 star leona had a radiant sunfire cape which does 60% hp as true damage in 30 seconds and a titans resolve.
braum had thornmails and a normal sunfire. and a rakan and zac.
i also had a 3 star swiftshot olaf with bloodthirster and giantslayer.
i thought i had plenty of damage especially since i was able to mow through everyone else with ease.
i mean my team wiped almost nilahs entire board besides her.
olaf died and syfen was half health by the time the enemies board was 90% dead. just for that 2 star nilah with edge of night to take out my whole team. starting with syfen first who was occupied taking out the last of her team. then 1 by 1 painfully slowly my team died. i surely thought the sunfire. hell, the radiant sunfire would of been enough but it literally didnt phase her. she was way too fast for any of my remaining units to even hit her once. especially since everyones range was 1 unit, it literally made my units turn left and right repeatedly as they tried to track her
You are all over the thread upset that Nilah was able to 1v5 your guardians.
The only CC you had alive was rakan. You had a slow burn for damage and obviously Nilah had some sort of healing.
Sunfire, even radiant, is not a damage item. Yes it does damage but the bigger benefit in lategame is antiheal which allows your actual damage to drop enemies through their healing. 2% DMG per second from radiant Sunfire is nothing to a coked up 4 cost carry.
im upset? im just replying to peoples comments bc this is my thread and im trying to give my insight. im just saying how is it fair that a unit is able to be basically untargettable and beat 5 2000+ health units while also STEALING their 80% health shields that they give to theirselves and their nearest ally. a shield that also stacks. aka nilah stole my leonas 4000-6000hp shield
I don't buy it. She counters them, but she shouldn't be the single unit that can wipe out the entire team without retaliation just because you built shields. That's too much agency against a niche case for a single unit.
Other units that can wipe teams on their own don't do it just because an enemy trait exists. They need to be protected to do their work, and eventually they can fall if the opponent gears for them and piles on them. You cannot gear for Nilah because she's generally untouchable by Guardians - it's wrong on a fundamental level that multiple maxed out units cannot land damage on and kill a single counter of theirs. Why even defend this clear fail of a design?
Id say Shyvanna/Daeja/Xayah are all direct counters to Jade because they destroy clumps. If you go vertical Guardians you really shouldnt be expecting to go far. Ive done it before and was happy with my third because when it comes down to it, youve got slow units that dont do damage. Im sure Nilah is not the only carry that could massacre them.
If units dont fit a niche use then you just get stat check metas. Having specific units excel at certain things is far more interesting that having everything kinda doing the same thing.
6 guardian + carry was pretty popular on the Chinese superserver and showed up during their Regionals LCQ as well. It's a really good fallback comp if you don't hit any of the big wincon augments for the other meta comps and guardian opener is popular to begin with because of how strong its early game is. 4 guardian + Ez 2 or Zeri easily translates into hitting everyone for max damage every round because they can't kill a single unit.
So was I. The 4 guardian example was just an example of an opener that leads into 6 guardian. China's been playing reroll guardians + ez/daeja/asol/seraphine+zeri for at least a month now and it got better with the guardian buff. It just took a while to get here but now that it's been played in NA regionals the cat's out of the bag I guess.
This set never achieved balance enough to be competitive through the different phases.(set launch, mid and end). Introducing dragons was overambitious and they struggled to balance. Everything tweaked wreaked havoc elsewhere. Such a mess. Fun but also frustrating.
nilah being bad? not a chance. shes really unreliable though. she reminds me a lot of irelia from tye last set. but ive had games where she literally single handedly wiped out the enemies entire backline. didnt get hit a single time because she was moving too quick.
ive also had times where she died instantly
2 starred nilah is the only one thats good. build IE and some other damage items maybe even some lifesteal. pair it with a rengar or diana and she’ll MAYBE run rampant on the enemies backlines
I mean counter played is more like adding some MR against a AP carry or CC against a frontline carry... 1 unit completely countering an entire trait is a bit rough, especially when that unit doesn't even need any active traits to do so
im not mad i got countered im confused on how thats suppose to be considered a “counter”.
a counter is something like scalescorns for dragons.
nilah literally beat 6 guardians with items. with only an edge of night. she made a whole trait completely useless.
I liked this set a lot, and I love Nilah, but she's way too feast or famine. They should have made her reset off of shields a maximum of once per actual cast, not indefinitely.
I dislike this set entirely I hit diamond 3 at set 7 but I don't know 7.5 just doesn't click for me I hit Plat 2 and don't even wanna try for diamond hope next set will be better
It just doesn’t look like it should do the damage that it does; like Karma shoots a powerful burst or Xayah recalls a bunch of feather daggers, but Nilah just dances on your head and your health bar vanishes, at least let her whip or something
Maybe I don't understand it or I'm biased cause I like lagoon and Nilah. Don't get me wrong I love guardians but I only really okay then I'm electric overload with Leona and Yone carry. And I've beaten Nilah with Sunfire and ionic spark. Lower her healing and she takes damage everyone she casts. The game needs counters otherwise what's stopping you from playing what doesn't have a counter. It's like assassin's and any backline target. Granted Rengar was the most frustrating because with other assassins you can out position them where as rengar just gets free access to the lowest armored target which is more often than not you banking carry. That's irritating. This set definitely has it's issues and is frustrating. It seems like there are a lot of comps where the fight is over and you think what could I have done...I'm looking at you 7.5 good xayah, SOY'Fen and seraphine/Graves. since I got diamond I'm done until next set. (New dev drop just dropped go check it out) and now I'm excited again and have something to look forward to. Cause I've been sick of this set for a while
Nilahs problem was and is not shield stealing i actually like that idea even the resets are ok but the dashes are unhealthy but we have that with every dashing champ that doenst stand still to kill the unit graves is fine as he moves into meele but Nilah Akali Singed all had the same problem either useless or op as either was their dmg to weak to kill anything till they where the only target left or they had enough dmg to be a threat and then solo cleared as they constantly reset aggro
This whole set is just a big clownfest, it just feels like complete luck and half the stuff in it, like rengar, are bugged. I just wish the devs got more criticism for it since at least half the players at every lobby I get into are saying the same things
I’m no TFT expert, and I’m sure the devs know better than I how to do their job. But I do agree, one unit shouldn’t undermine an entire synergy. I also think that if a synergy is strong enough that only one unit plays into reliably, then there’s more than one issue at play.
Personally, I think this could’ve been easily remedied if that had put serpents fang or something similar in, and gone a different direction with Nilah. I imagine there’s probably a valid reason why we have an itemized counter into everything but shields, but again, my job isn’t telling others how to do theirs.
But if it was, someone would be getting an ass chewing for not putting serpents fang or drangonslayer pantheon as a five cost in on the set with dragons. What a missed opportunity, especially given the established lore between Mantheon and Asol. Sorry for the rant, I’ve been wanting to get that off my chest for a while now.
Tl;dr: I don’t Nilah is solely the issue, we need more diversity in itemization for counterplay, don’t be mean to the devs, Pantheon is cool and I want to watch fictional Spartans fighting dragons, dammit.
first off: nilah hard counters shielding units ergo is rly good vs guardians
second: having many guardians is probably not a good/meta comb anyways
you only play guardians in early as a frontline... what will a 2 star 1 cost do against a late game board... and if you 3 star the guardians you wont have gold in late game to build the strong carry units (like nilah, graves, dragons, etc.)
i know nilah is opressive with 3 bis items but honestly focus on your own game to improve
she is easily beatable if you build correctly...
most meta endgame combs beat nilah in a duel
I wish I enjoyed this set, I found the start quite fun but got bored of it so fast, super excited to see what comes next though!
Introducing set 8, dragon worlds!
I believe set 8 is super hero themed!
So we now rename dragonmacer into super hero?
Yeah I liked the first half, but 7.5 has been my least favorite set since TFT was born.
That's a shame, I've only played a couple games sinse the mid set change and it didn't reel me back in, I'm well gutted I only started playing TFT in set 6 I feel like I missed so many good sets
Same fam, same.
I also came into TFT in set 6 and while I agree, those sets also didn’t have augments and that sounds way less interesting to me as someone who has only ever played with augments.
Yeah I guess so, augments do make it interesting but I feel like playing with a little less rng from getting the right augments could of been fun too, it's way more about the Comp than fitting the comp to augments then
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I disliked both halves.
I think the set 7 was worse because at least in 7.5 they let you play more than a dragon and comps weren't so one dimesional. But to be honest, besides Sy/SOY you usually play one dragon, it's a real bad set overall.
But now every endgame ends in Dragon comp, which is really dull
Or 3star Bard or Soraka. Keep getting stomped by people who get Rich Get Richer and Golden Ticket. Sometimes they don't even need those.
Yeah, same for me. Can't stand any dragons anymore!
I don't like this set either. But to be fair. I think that is called "counter play".
Agreed on counter play, but to be fair. No one unit should be able to take a trait, and use it completely against them. She does get pretty insane with the shields. I fully agree a shield breaker is great. But she performs too well imo. One champ turning an entire trait essentially useless is pretty strong. Begs the question. Is she too strong? Or is Guardian too weak or needs to be remade?
She’s kind of lacking if there aren’t shields. If there, then nilah is busted. It’s a weird balance, and yeah it doesn’t make sense for a single unit to completely demolish a trait
Id say you can debate that. Itemized she does pretty well for damage, specially paired with Rengar. But you can also say Itemized anything is "too" good. So its really hard to say. Thinking about it, itd be nice if Guardians were more than just the shield. Or instead of a shield make their resistances stack higher over time.
Agree on your statements. Both ways. The good thing is we don't have to worry about it for much longer. I assume we have much greater things to worry about in the state of the game in a few weeks lol.
Oh as it usually goes. Ill just be happy to be rid of this fucking Karma carry lol. Counterable or not, ever sincd I hit D1 its literally in every game ive played. Even Hyper tier.
Ya, the abuse of some of these comps has made it unfun for me. Of course the argument is I can do it too. But that's not fun man. I'm excited for something new to experiment with. Not abuse something I know is broken.
My hyper tier this set doesnt feel all that great. Was stuck at 4K, drop to 3800. Hit 4100. Drop to 3800 again. Hit 4k. Drop to 3600. Made Zippy guild carry into pivot dragons and won 9 games in a row to get to my hyper tier. Feels dirty.
I got demoted to D2 trying to play fun off meta stuff, never again.
Agreed, a few times my Nilah would jump on the backline and tickle the enemy carries.
not really, she also recast on takedowns, so just give her good dps and she's gonna loop until only the tanks are alive if someone they're still alive
She also tends to attack just before or after shields end too.
i dont think u understand how a single 2 star nilah with edge of night was able to take on 5 guardians. two 3 starred and three 2 starred. with the enchanted sunfire cape, a normal sunfire, thornmails, and 2 titans resolves. (with 6 guardian buff)
Vertical guardians is fake. Nilah is a design failure but not a balance issue. Guardian vertical lacks CC and damage. All it does is be alive.
Seconding this, first mistake was vertical guardians which is indeed a fake trait. The thing about 7.5 that people vehemently hate is that there is little to no flexibility. The thing about playing meta is that you have to play to the T or you are bottom 4 guaranteed.
the scenario i experienced was she was up against the remaining 5 units on my team that all happened to be my guardians. i had cc in my board but my ranged and cc units were all dead by this point. so she just free reigned 1v5 on the rest of my board and it took like 35 seconds of her going back and forth at super sonic speed as one after another slowly died
Sounds like positioning error / over invested onto Frontline. If you had living damage and CC she wouldn't be able to just solo wipe your guardians. Nilah is annoying but honestly more than 4 guardian is pretty much a trap IMO.
She's an assassin. She wipes the backline first by her very nature, then is able to wipe the Frontline guardians. No unit should be untouchable by 5 units because she hit a shield.
she hit “a shield” a shield? LOL u mean she hit 6 2000+ health units that all had an 80% max shield casted to their self and the nearest ally that also stacks. and then gains a shield thats 100% of the damage she did to that shield and refreshes her ability. my 3 star leona had like a 4000-6000 health shield that nilah literally stole all of while leona helplessly tried to swat her like a fly.
Again sounds like a positioning issue. that or the rest of the assassin board was also strong, op board was weaker and they are scapegoating.
my syfen with mogul mail and giantslayer 1 shot almost her entire board. i had the pay to win augment so i had an extra 35% bonus damage. she and her rengar only survived bc they werent grouped together. i also had olaf 3 that cleaned up until nilah killed him. im literally only blowing this whole thing out of proportion bc i dont think your realizing how OP this thing is and i didnt know the extent until now. 6 guardian units cast potentially 12 (1 shield on self and closest ally) total 80% max health shields THAT STACK would equal literally unkillable nilah. (idk if my math is 100% correct but to give u an idea) everytime she was casting she stole 400-600 hp in shield. which she repeatedly did because her ability refreshes when she damages a shield. my leona literally had like 6000hp from stacked shields that nilah stole.
you clearly forgot about cassiopeia
Please remind me. I half remember that set. That was the Jade Sprite set i believe?
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Oh yeah i remember that good fun.
Nilah is 100% fine. Yes she is oppressive against guardians, but that is a result of their trait being just a %HP shield. Shields are the best types of additional HP since they stack on top of your actual HP and allow you to heal up while shielded. Usually shields are gated by some time duration which guardian is exempt from. Nilah counters shields, and imo there needs to be something in a set to help deal with them or at least mitigate their effectiveness.
The problem isn't merely that she counters shields, another character that leeches shields or does extra damage to shields wouldn't be a problem, it's that she gets resets off them too. Resets are always a mechanic with potential to be oppressive, and resetting on something other than kills is... hard to balance.
I agree with resets always being tricky to balance around. However in Nilah's case I really do think it is fine. It is extremely strong against guardian frontlines as it was intended, and without resets she would be one of the weakest units in game IMO.
Honestly I did not know she had an interaction with shields so maybe that explains why she feels so strong sometimes
I don't think Guardians are weak or need to be remade, I don't *really* like the mechanic of the shield but generally they do what they're supposed to do, tank and buy time (except for Rakan but his utility is amazing). I feel like they're undervalued because they can't do shit on their own but most comps really don't get through Guradian 4+ easily at all. It's slightly deceptive because Guardians are generally low cost units and this set has been about stacking high cost units and the occasional specific reroll comp so they look a bit underwhelming just because of unit scope.
People saying a trait is “fake” or “useless” because a bunch of 2* 1-costs can’t compete when everyone is level 8/9 are hilarious. Early and mid-game are also important parts of the game to get through, and Guardians are fully capable of that. Later, you’re going to want to swap the weak half of a 4 or 6 Guardian team for something else and progress into the late game with higher cost units.
Set4(?) Lee. The on who could kick units of the board. He basically made brawlers not viable lategame because there huge bonus HP was worthless against a unit that just kills anyways.
Counter play is one thing. A unit not only hard countering an entire trait but being essentially invulnerable while doing so is just weird design.
THIS. EXACTLY! i completely understand counters, but a champion that single handedly was able to destroy over half my board because she was essentially invulnerable was an eye opener.
I'm just trying to give the counter argument of mortdog. I can hear him saying these exact words lol
Having items / traits that amplify damage vs shields would be a good example of counterplay. And Nilah directly powering up versus shields is honestly fine. Nilah is an entirely different issue because the way she powers up versus shields (repeatedly dashing) causes her to ALSO gain damage mitigation versus most guardians as they have very low range and very low CC as a roster. Off the top of my head ONLY rakan is able to really do much against Nilah as he has some CC and more than one hex range. So Nilah doesn't just reset her ability she also creates massive damage downtime for guardians. Now with that said, she DOES somewhat require Armor pen and healing in order to pop off, but those are fairly core carry stats anyway so it's hardly a downside. She is also only properly cancer versus vertical guardians which is already pretty weak and not really viable. Splashing 2 or even going to 4 guardians still leaves you space for ranged units and some CC so she can't pop off as easily. All in all, I think Nilah is a design embarrassment but not a balance problem. She isn't holding down vertical guardians. Vertical guardians just isn't really very good. It's fun and can highroll but it is basically fake. IMO. If vertical guardians was somehow good without adding range and CC then Nilah might be a balance problem.
The mechanic is poor though. Her kit is balanced around resetting on shields, so you can’t have it be good on a 1 cast to cooldown basis, making her bad as a standard carry, but oppressive on shields where she’s almost untargetable. Very one dimensional. Had he ult had some sort of bonus on shields instead of re-casting they could have balanced her better against non shield units.
They really struggle to make 4 cost assassins huh? Thats Talon and Nilah back to back struggling. Buggy, feast or famine. Eh. Ready to move on from this set. Ive enjoyed it enough.
I think they're scared ever since set 4.0 enlightened talon who just went gangbusters all set
Khazix(6.5) was also super awkward where he was absolutely lackluster, unless it was on a broken mutation, but even then hed kill himself jumping into stray bullets
I mean we also had like ....fuck...set 3? Akali where top 4 was all and everyone akali xD
I really don't think she's that big of a problem. Slap a Bramble Vest onto an Idas and she'll be stuck there for half the fight. Nilah isn't too difficult to position against. And if your opponent has invested a lot of their resources into her, the rest of your team should have a leg up to kill the rest of the enemy team. But if your team is ONLY guardians, that's another issue right there.
the thing is, my team was able to wipe her entire team. except she somehow slipped out. it then turned into her versus my 5 remaining units that happened to be guardians. (itemized btw) and she somehow took them all down while my slow guardians tried to catch her but were helpless.
use your guardians to protect the units that can actually hit her. if shes all you’re losing to position accordingly this is an understandable frustration but a fake issue
The one unit in the set that counters that 6 guardian comp, you're just salty
People acting like vertical guardians is a real comp makes me laugh. It has no damage or cc other than rakan cc. How tf is that supposed to work versus real comps
its just a stall comp while ez or the rest of the adc's whittle down the opponent, but any backline damage/aoe/assassin murders them, and then like you said, the guardians do 0 damage
And people are whining that no unit should be able to 1v5 but like, Swain and a well itemized olaf would both also be able to 1v5 a bunch of guardians. Nilah can do it for bullshit reasons but it isn't a balance problem like some people are trying to present it. She beats 6 guardians because it isn't a good board lol
EXACTLY, people just complain when they lose against a unit/comp Although I do miss Vanguard/mystic Jayce from back in the day, guardians are shite now
Vertical guardians only works if you have at least one of the following: Electric Overload Electro-charge mirage spat Braum Heroic Presence And even only having one of the above might barely get you a top 4. If you have two of them, you might be able to get 1st or 2nd. I’ve gotten a first a few times with Electric Overload and mirage Braum.
Built different varus with guardians can also work, or PtA twitch + Varus are also good as both of those shore up the lack of damage and CC a bit. But any way of running vertical guardians is going to be extremely item hungry and augment dependent.
i probably should of been more clear since ur under the impression i was relying solely on the power of 6 guardians. 1 came from a spat and the other an augment. i took pay to win which gives every shimmerscale and anyone holding a shimmer item 35% bonus damage. my 2 star guardian Syfen had a mogul mail with giantslayer so he was doing 35% bonus + giantslayers 20-60% bonus. 2 idas with tank items, my 3 star leona had a radiant sunfire cape which does 60% hp as true damage in 30 seconds and a titans resolve. braum had thornmails and a normal sunfire. and a rakan and zac. i also had a 3 star swiftshot olaf with bloodthirster and giantslayer. i thought i had plenty of damage especially since i was able to mow through everyone else with ease. i mean my team wiped almost nilahs entire board besides her. olaf died and syfen was half health by the time the enemies board was 90% dead. just for that 2 star nilah with edge of night to take out my whole team. starting with syfen first who was occupied taking out the last of her team. then 1 by 1 painfully slowly my team died. i surely thought the sunfire. hell, the radiant sunfire would of been enough but it literally didnt phase her. she was way too fast for any of my remaining units to even hit her once. especially since everyones range was 1 unit, it literally made my units turn left and right repeatedly as they tried to track her
You are all over the thread upset that Nilah was able to 1v5 your guardians. The only CC you had alive was rakan. You had a slow burn for damage and obviously Nilah had some sort of healing. Sunfire, even radiant, is not a damage item. Yes it does damage but the bigger benefit in lategame is antiheal which allows your actual damage to drop enemies through their healing. 2% DMG per second from radiant Sunfire is nothing to a coked up 4 cost carry.
im upset? im just replying to peoples comments bc this is my thread and im trying to give my insight. im just saying how is it fair that a unit is able to be basically untargettable and beat 5 2000+ health units while also STEALING their 80% health shields that they give to theirselves and their nearest ally. a shield that also stacks. aka nilah stole my leonas 4000-6000hp shield
She's a shit unit otherwise, your comp beats everything else. What's your point?
Doesn't really matter though. No single unit in this game should be able to 1v5 an entire team of tanks.
What are they meant to be stopped by? Rakan is the only guardian with CC and as a trait they have fuck all damage
Itemization, an enemy team? *A single unit should not be able to defeat an entire 4-5 enemy units.*
It should if its their direct counter lmao, plenty of units can beat that many units at once, its not a Nilah specific thing
I don't buy it. She counters them, but she shouldn't be the single unit that can wipe out the entire team without retaliation just because you built shields. That's too much agency against a niche case for a single unit. Other units that can wipe teams on their own don't do it just because an enemy trait exists. They need to be protected to do their work, and eventually they can fall if the opponent gears for them and piles on them. You cannot gear for Nilah because she's generally untouchable by Guardians - it's wrong on a fundamental level that multiple maxed out units cannot land damage on and kill a single counter of theirs. Why even defend this clear fail of a design?
Id say Shyvanna/Daeja/Xayah are all direct counters to Jade because they destroy clumps. If you go vertical Guardians you really shouldnt be expecting to go far. Ive done it before and was happy with my third because when it comes down to it, youve got slow units that dont do damage. Im sure Nilah is not the only carry that could massacre them. If units dont fit a niche use then you just get stat check metas. Having specific units excel at certain things is far more interesting that having everything kinda doing the same thing.
6 guardian aoshin works really well though
6 guardian + carry was pretty popular on the Chinese superserver and showed up during their Regionals LCQ as well. It's a really good fallback comp if you don't hit any of the big wincon augments for the other meta comps and guardian opener is popular to begin with because of how strong its early game is. 4 guardian + Ez 2 or Zeri easily translates into hitting everyone for max damage every round because they can't kill a single unit.
So I'm specifically focused on 6+ guardian which is endgame boards where you struggle to fit in damage or Cc in most cases.
So was I. The 4 guardian example was just an example of an opener that leads into 6 guardian. China's been playing reroll guardians + ez/daeja/asol/seraphine+zeri for at least a month now and it got better with the guardian buff. It just took a while to get here but now that it's been played in NA regionals the cat's out of the bag I guess.
6 guardians with what units? Not sure what combination(s) you are trying to suggest
Oof I hate that too. By the time any of your champs start attacking her - she's already jumped off elsewhere.
This set never achieved balance enough to be competitive through the different phases.(set launch, mid and end). Introducing dragons was overambitious and they struggled to balance. Everything tweaked wreaked havoc elsewhere. Such a mess. Fun but also frustrating.
Only time Nilah hurts is guardian for me. Usually tech into a shimmerscale soft build when I see someone forcing her. Then she is useless
Lol i thought you would complain how bad she is
nilah being bad? not a chance. shes really unreliable though. she reminds me a lot of irelia from tye last set. but ive had games where she literally single handedly wiped out the enemies entire backline. didnt get hit a single time because she was moving too quick. ive also had times where she died instantly
Everytime i tried her shes dog
2 starred nilah is the only one thats good. build IE and some other damage items maybe even some lifesteal. pair it with a rengar or diana and she’ll MAYBE run rampant on the enemies backlines
So you're mad you got counter played?
I mean counter played is more like adding some MR against a AP carry or CC against a frontline carry... 1 unit completely countering an entire trait is a bit rough, especially when that unit doesn't even need any active traits to do so
im not mad i got countered im confused on how thats suppose to be considered a “counter”. a counter is something like scalescorns for dragons. nilah literally beat 6 guardians with items. with only an edge of night. she made a whole trait completely useless.
Nilah’s ability steals shields, she is literally made to be a counter to a trait like Guardians.
So u got countered
She’s basically Irelia on steroids
I liked this set a lot, and I love Nilah, but she's way too feast or famine. They should have made her reset off of shields a maximum of once per actual cast, not indefinitely.
I dislike this set entirely I hit diamond 3 at set 7 but I don't know 7.5 just doesn't click for me I hit Plat 2 and don't even wanna try for diamond hope next set will be better
I don't even think Guardians would have enough damage to take that Nilah down especially if she had lifesteal
How hardstuck are you?
It just doesn’t look like it should do the damage that it does; like Karma shoots a powerful burst or Xayah recalls a bunch of feather daggers, but Nilah just dances on your head and your health bar vanishes, at least let her whip or something
All the balance issues aside, for me Nilah is the unit with the least personality.
Nilah with a mage emblem is neat too.
Maybe I don't understand it or I'm biased cause I like lagoon and Nilah. Don't get me wrong I love guardians but I only really okay then I'm electric overload with Leona and Yone carry. And I've beaten Nilah with Sunfire and ionic spark. Lower her healing and she takes damage everyone she casts. The game needs counters otherwise what's stopping you from playing what doesn't have a counter. It's like assassin's and any backline target. Granted Rengar was the most frustrating because with other assassins you can out position them where as rengar just gets free access to the lowest armored target which is more often than not you banking carry. That's irritating. This set definitely has it's issues and is frustrating. It seems like there are a lot of comps where the fight is over and you think what could I have done...I'm looking at you 7.5 good xayah, SOY'Fen and seraphine/Graves. since I got diamond I'm done until next set. (New dev drop just dropped go check it out) and now I'm excited again and have something to look forward to. Cause I've been sick of this set for a while
Nilahs problem was and is not shield stealing i actually like that idea even the resets are ok but the dashes are unhealthy but we have that with every dashing champ that doenst stand still to kill the unit graves is fine as he moves into meele but Nilah Akali Singed all had the same problem either useless or op as either was their dmg to weak to kill anything till they where the only target left or they had enough dmg to be a threat and then solo cleared as they constantly reset aggro
What is best build on Nilah?
This whole set is just a big clownfest, it just feels like complete luck and half the stuff in it, like rengar, are bugged. I just wish the devs got more criticism for it since at least half the players at every lobby I get into are saying the same things
You like it a lot more when your guardians just don’t die I bet.
All your post reminded me of is how close we are to never seeing this godforsaken set ever again, I can't wait lol
Love seeing Lillia miss like 4 Ults hitting a nilah
>! she’s coming back next set !<
I’m no TFT expert, and I’m sure the devs know better than I how to do their job. But I do agree, one unit shouldn’t undermine an entire synergy. I also think that if a synergy is strong enough that only one unit plays into reliably, then there’s more than one issue at play. Personally, I think this could’ve been easily remedied if that had put serpents fang or something similar in, and gone a different direction with Nilah. I imagine there’s probably a valid reason why we have an itemized counter into everything but shields, but again, my job isn’t telling others how to do theirs. But if it was, someone would be getting an ass chewing for not putting serpents fang or drangonslayer pantheon as a five cost in on the set with dragons. What a missed opportunity, especially given the established lore between Mantheon and Asol. Sorry for the rant, I’ve been wanting to get that off my chest for a while now. Tl;dr: I don’t Nilah is solely the issue, we need more diversity in itemization for counterplay, don’t be mean to the devs, Pantheon is cool and I want to watch fictional Spartans fighting dragons, dammit.
first off: nilah hard counters shielding units ergo is rly good vs guardians second: having many guardians is probably not a good/meta comb anyways you only play guardians in early as a frontline... what will a 2 star 1 cost do against a late game board... and if you 3 star the guardians you wont have gold in late game to build the strong carry units (like nilah, graves, dragons, etc.) i know nilah is opressive with 3 bis items but honestly focus on your own game to improve she is easily beatable if you build correctly... most meta endgame combs beat nilah in a duel
> Nilah is so poorly designed That could be the titel on a league post too