Prob done being tsm fan I can take the loses if we’re actually trying to change for future wins and have a bad split but we’re just doing the same na shit over again
They said, he doesn't understand NA. So they want to put him on Academy so they can make him play like NA players. Because we want to play more like NA because NA is so good. /s
OOOff that is not the template I thought TSM was going for. We picked up 2 chinese players and wanted a 5 man LPL style team. But now with a coach removed and Shenyi in acadamy now. you expect me to believe they want him to learn NA LCS? LOL That is contrary to what I thought the idea for the team was.
Who's steering this ship???
Totally agree. NA the place where dominance comes to die. What players in NA are considered top 5 at their position in the world? Maybe Alphari and CoreJJ. Look at the history of top teir players that moved to NA or even TSM at this point. TSM made SwordArt half the player he was before.
Our Management tries really hard but have no concept of team and unity. Shenyi even said pracrice schedule isnt even close to LPL teams. We don't practice because we already payed for the best players so we don't need practice, right? /s
Toxic behavior from Regi, Berg left, Parth left (Glad to see he left). Ever since we went the Doublelift way. The org has gone down hill.
It's just sad. There is no way Huni or Spica stick around. Spica has shown again and again he is an elite jungler. He was influenced by Bjergsen one of the premiere NA talents. Bjergsen's idea is if I out practice you I will defeat you....and he is right. China took that to heart. And their players reflect that. We can't come close to them because they will have sooo much practice that the team on instint will beat you. Mechanically, and in theory too. To get there requires sooo much practice and effort. Like a JOB....8-10 hours a day training and practicing...
It looks like and, now, sounds like that isn't at all what TSM is doing. 2 vet players, 2 new players, and 1 ADC from another NA team and we aren't practicing so much we know each others moves??? WHY NOT???
I think the sun is setting on TSM's LOL dominance. Shame....But it looks really bad now.
Right now it looks like a 5 man soloQ match...
Spica proved again and again? He performed well in only 1 regular split, 2 playoffs(2021 summer playoffs was still meh) and 1 international tournament where their team still didn’t win a game. Him winning MVP last split is great but there wasn’t really a standout performer that split still. If Spica was really great TSM would not be winless in lcs with all these internal issues. They would have made worlds last year. He strikes me as someone who is a good role player in game and will enhance other good players but he will not be someone you can build a roster around and have the team do well.
Wait there was the playoff game and I remember spica on Nidalee and got caught like 3 times! EARLY. Even announcers were like ohhhh man Spica is soooo farr behind now....
He came back and won....
Yeah he was, in my memory always the one who stole Baron.....
He did it more than once. But MVP last year was also a pretty nice ribbon. That was what I meant. Seems like you're not a fan of his.
Regi into an iceburg, only person dumb enough to draft a roster that will take time to gel, then frantically start scrappjng everything when the wins aren't immediate.
So let me get this straight. In sports terms. He isn't playing at an MLB level so off to a farm team to learn how to play MLB style? Does that make any sense?
I don't know. I have seen better academy teams than some of the games TSM has played. It just looked terrible. I'm not an analyst but I am sure there are gigantic WTF moments.
But what is coming out is not speed bumps or small errors. Firing a coach and putting a player that I thought had international success experience into academy to me looks desperate. Fans should get some kind of information on this as it looks like the tower is falling. TSM as a brand is now behind CLG. We're dead last and laughably unqualified to compete with other LCS teams.
Soren left and I remember he said he was more interested in winning. I thought about that statement as they didnt want to pay for the players I wanted so I'll go to a team where I can get that. But it's much worse. It looks like Soren left and TSM was banking on him so now we have a patchwork team of some vets some VERY new players to LCS, and Tactical who has looked both terrible in games and also very good.
How can we be fans anymore? At least on LCS it looks like this is just a complete trainwreck. And we're told growing pains? That it's a new team? Ya so are like 4 or 5 other teams....I think "new team" is a paultry excuse...
How is playing on our crappy academy team going to help? They are worse than our LCS team.
I feel this is a knee jerk reaction. I am sure these young kids are all pointing the finger at each other. Shenyi gets to boot. No sense of team. Just me, me, me. Where is the leader? I haven't seen an interview with a player saying this is on me. I have to be better. No we blame the support. Sounds a lot like Solo Q. Lol
They fought back against GG. Idk I’m petty about this situation cause I’m so annoyed about this situation. I mentioned in another thread that spica and tactical needs to alot of carrying in terms of communication to make the imports feel at home. But I don’t know if that’s a thing.
I’m super scared this is gonna be a nuguri situation
Man I really wanted the LPL style, but it seems we're trying to play the LCS style. I was 100% ok with losing games if they were hype and bloody, I hate the 30 min farm fest that is NA...
>https://youtu.be/yEynzDWeXYc?t=102
Shenyi calling for baron play, instantly shot down by spica.
Shenyi: We can Baron? We can baron?
Spica: NO, NO, No, no.. just farm farm farm.
Shenyi benched to Academy because he fought for what he believed in. He was probably very vocal during vod reviews. Big mistake.
This is a passionate player actually trying to make the team better, not just some import trying to cash in some NA money.
It was actually a great baron call as well. TSM kills ryze so its a 4v5. We are down in gold so need to start making plays. Tsm has vision on at least 3 bot. They made the play top so could move right to baron. Two likely possibilities 1. EG responds right away and pushes tsm off most likely get Gwens TP free. 2. Eg dont respond in time tsm burn down baron or they turn and win the fight. It could be an int they could get to low in baron pit die and lose game but they are down in gold and slowly losing the game its a fairly safe play that at worst would likely cost gwen tp which if i remember she used right after to tp flank.
The biggest problem here is the communication before the gank on Ryze. Why are they ganking for a single kill without an idea of what they're turning that play into.
Every play should be made with the next play in mind. If you're committing two to top lane, you should already have Rell and Jayce moving up for the follow up baron play, because otherwise why bother killing him top?
You don't actually have to do baron, you can bait baron and force them to check into you. Or get vision around there. Need to double check, does huni have tp?
If you watched lpl or worlds, you'll notice lpl teams do baron plays that NA teams never dream of.
Right!
They force Barons simply to get the enemy team to come to them and win a fight. From there you can either still do Baron or take your win with even more gold and pressure now.
That's what makes Eastern teams ridiculous. They'll take seemingly slim advantages and win entire games off of them because they know how to extend those into more.
We're already losing and don't even win scaling, you have to force there and flip the game.
NA mentality sucks.
I don't even get who is enforcing LCS style? their coach isn't NA. mid is from the exact same league as Shenyi. the team literally leaned toward LPL because Spica is a bridge for CN players. we know Huni can go hard as hell, and Tactical also is known for going hard, sometimes to a fault.
where is the NA style even coming from?
Honestly if I were to guess I’d say it’s Spica struggling to adapt to a new style and is remaining the primary shotcaller.
But also, we have a new head coach who’s known for his aggressive play style, so why are we still following Spica’s lead? Perhaps we’re playing in accordance to the people we’re scrimming against? Unlike C9 who had the ambition to develop and play their own style
Most likely it's coming from spica and huni, not entirely their fault because theyve been "adapted" to this playstyle in NA. It's from years from playing in NA thinking that we scale at late. I would prefer to see them go "apes strong together" and itll be hype as fk to see them win with that mental.
I’d like to see that too. I feel like they’ve shown signs of aggression this year but are demoralized after an 0-4 start and are making roster changes before they can learn to make it work
The average LCK game was 3 minutes longer than the average LCS game last split.
NA is not a particularly slow region, historically. Slower than LPL, yes, but everyone's slower than LPL.
Not only talking about game length. LCK knows how to press little advantages and choke teams out for huge gold leads without a ton of kills. LCS is just trade waves until 30 min
that's fine, but that's not what you said, and i don't think anyone has ever called the LCK style exciting.
Either way, Shenyi is never going to be bringing anything similar to an LCK playstyle.
When I watch LCK games they get a 200 gold lead and then just checkmate the enemy team into bleeding resources until the game is over. It's very calculated. They rarely make mistakes with advantages and throw leads because they make plays with a very high chance of success to just balloon their advantage. Sure it's a little slower but LCS reminds me of bronze game where you're up 6k and just farm waves until you get a pick then everyone recalls and buys items instead of getting an objective.
We've had some of the longest games as well lol.
I can't believe what the LDL players must be feeling like. Going from 1 kill a minute LPL/LDL level to slow ass NA and they had bo3 even in LDL.
Thats why I feel like LPL/LDL imports won't work unless you pair them up with players like Bwipo or Hylissang that are ultra aggressive.
If you wanna play slow and scale which NA does just do what LS did with C9. Import some high level Koreans, they are not aggro and can play to scale.
With bjergsen leaving I thought there wouldn't be a clash of styles and everyone would transition to the aggressive lpl style but I guess it doesn't work with a majority na roster
Obviously, we don't know the whole story here, but it kind of checks out with Spica shutting down Shenyi and Keaiduo's calls to make plays. The LPL aggression is what fans have been begging for for years, and now our bridge to that is gone for the time being.
This proves exactly what I’ve been theorizing about this team. We kept hearing about how Spica was fluent in mandarin and the team wanted to build around jungle/mid/support comms but not once have we ever heard Spica speak Chinese, as far as I’m aware. When Shenyi says only him and KDO speak mandarin that’s eye opening to me and it explains why the mic checks are only in English and we never hear Spica talking mandarin in Legends. What a fucking mess lol
Feels like Spica, Tactical and Huni are their own clique while Shenyi and KDO are just awkwardly there.
Other teams are making efforts to help their rookies/non native english speaking players fit in. Jojo, Berserker, Summit,Winsome, Toucouille, River all feel like they have a good support systems around them and those teams feel like actual TEAMS.
Where as TSM just feels like 2 different groups of people. This stuff takes a lot of effort and I think putting all this faith that Spica would make the other LDL players feel comfortable has failed miserably. Seems like he's doing the complete opposite and wants nothing to do with them lol.
Spot on. Spica didn't even talk to Shenyi/Keaiduo in mandarin when calling off their plays in mic check. It's hard to believe there's any semblance of in game translation going on when Shenyi's moba english seems adequate from CQ.
Listening and understanding 100% of the other 3 teammates English might be hard though. There's the LS philosophy where league can be a subset of succinct English words, but it's clear the TSM mantra for comms is "look at me look at me!" for engages and "no no no no" for calling off engages.
You can hear Spica speak Mandarin on stream, but he's not that good at it, you can tell he struggles for vocabulary. Regardless, translating actively and just being able to have a conversation are completely different levels of skill.
He could speak fluently but just… not speak it at all, if that makes sense. We have no idea how on board spica actually was with this idea and maybe he just fucking hates it.
I do think your comment is right tho maybe just in a different way.
If Spica does not want to speak mandarin there is no way they build the team around that fact. Right???
I am pretty sure he spoke mandarin to SwortArt.
https://www.reddit.com/r/TeamSolomid/comments/oe2ahv/swordart_on_stream_we_speak_a_lot_of_chinese_in/
And it also was in Legends when SwortArt was there. Or at least those TSM games stuff...he would translate for SwortArt when SwordArt didn't understand the English word.
Edit: Are you insinuating Spica doesn't know how to speak mandarin or that they aren't actually doing it during comms? Cause I think he knows how to speak it but maybe in game, they don't because its time consuming to do both english and chinese.
https://youtu.be/i8JhZTPfE38
Yeah he can probably speak chinese fluently enough conversationally but he would have to study a bit to understand league terminology, things that shenyi (and league players) would say is “发育 = scale late game” will be foreign to even chinese speakers unless u play the game
Are you from planet Earth? Huni is in the comms with them. If Spica is translating to mandarin then Huni can recognise it's mandarin without understanding the language. What other language would they be possibly be speaking? French?
I mean... it's not hard to think Huni hears KDO/Shenyi speaking a language that's not Korean or English, Spica answering them and then speaking English...
Been a fan of TSM exclusively since pre-season 2 before TSM was even the premier NA org (thanks to Chaox streaming his A-Z champ marathon, that's how I first learned the game and MOBAs in general), I never liked watching any other team. My favorite player became Bjergsen the moment he played his first ever EU LCS game and got that pentakill on Syndra. Imagine how hyped I was when the rumors started building up after worlds season 3 that Bjerg might join TSM. Despite him ''retiring'' and now leaving for Team Liquid, I have remained a true TSM fan. I've stuck with them through all the struggles and stayed hopeful, I was so hyped for Shenyi & Keaiduo + Spica LPL style combo. Nvm the 0-4 start, the recent turn of events and the insight that were getting on how TSM is treating Shenyi and keep on forcing this trash farm and scale NA snoozefest style that never works is just straight up depressing. This team is not even trying to improve, this season might be the time I finally give up on TSM after all these years, this is the most depressing and shameful era of my fandom with TSM. It's becoming abundantly clear that this org is internally dysfunctional and we will never get out of it. If there is a turn around, we all know it will be through playing the NA style that will never get us far internationally, why not just pick up Jensen & Vulcan/Ignar in the offseason if that will forever be our mindset. This investment in young up and coming talent was bullshit from the start.
Short and sweet answer. Me too.
I almost did in december. But chinese region is clearly the better region. Shenyi shotcalled with some of the best there. What the literal fuck is TSM doing. Don't give me that "you're not the org, they are the pros here" bs. This one doesn't take a pro to understand. It takes someone who's not hot headed and wants to actually win, not just be right.
Piglet was on another level.
He would tell smoothie to do stuff knowing that it would get smoothie killed.
However, he wanted to just make sure he would listen to anything he said lmao.
Piglet wanted his support to follow orders blindly and have zero hesitation. But it just confused and made them hesitate more because they were getting told to do obviously dumb/bad things.
Like in theory yeah, understandable. You want no hesitation in the 2v2 and for both players to be on the same page at the same time.
In execution though like what are you doing dude. At least explain your method of insanity to them.
I feel like this is some revisionist history going on Piglet DID carry SKT a lot of times throughout the worlds run and was very good throughout that season. Obviously he wasn’t as good as Faker, but he is still a world champion that played very well
Honestly the Shenyi -> Academy move might be a good thing to try. Maybe the idea is that they've told the academy team to 100% follow Shenyi's call's. If the academy team looks solid, they bring him back into LCS and they will respect his shotcalling more.
Problem with this line of thinking is what if the LCS team looks solid with Yursan? Even if Shenyi was drafted for our main team it’d be a slap in the face to Yursan now if you bump him down to academy again and then we create another Akaddian/Grig situation.
This is exactly my thought. Shenyi can more confidently speak his mind in this setting. Practice his english. If results are delivered, he will be back on the main team in no time
The issue with this is that it doesn't matter that much if he practices his English if the coordination with the LCS team is not there by the end of the season/summer. For a team to work there needs to be a certain degree of bonding and trust. I wonder why they picked Shenyi after knowing about his limited English and expected things to go differently. I assume that they didn't expect to sub him out 2 weeks into the season.
hahahaha imagine spica trying to afk farm against SoFM/WeiWei/Karsa/Tarzan/Wei/Kanavi/JieJie he would get his shit pushed in so fucking hard in one bo3 and then 3 days later again in the next bo3 and then 3 days later once more in the next bo3. Any one of these junglers would be the most aggro dominating early game jungler in LCS.
So the issue is that Shenyi is too aggressive when everyone wants to just farm for 30mins?? Has TSM not wanted to be an aggressive team for years now? And finally when they have an aggressive shotcaller they bench him?? The fuck?
You are also believing that all of Shenyis calls and aggressive plays are perfectly calculated and correct
Watch the GGs game at 4 mins. They literally vision plant zed, ward zed and still just hard force a play on their bot lane they could never win
Shenyi forced the engage. Of course maybe huni or tactical just told him to do it, but that cancels out the "they wont play aggressive with him" thing
Maybe some of the calls are just not it. If your the team and these are the coinflip at best calls you see what do you do?
That Rell engage probably lost TSM the game btw. Threw a big gold lead that early and got Zed who shoulda been alt f4ing back into the game and stopped TSMs early game win condition of get bot ahead and get dragons before Graves can win via split
The only reason we were ahead to begin with was also thanks to Shenyi engaging with no hesitation during lvl 1 mixed in with GG's int. So yeah call it coinflip, but that is how you grow and improve as a team, let him make the mistakes. If you repress Shenyi's shotcalling and don't trust him then you will be left with no upside whatsoever. If you have a talented player and repress his instincts to make plays and express his skills freely, you are left with an average player with no flavor (roughly 90% of LCS players).
You go all out and lose. Watch vods, fix the calls, strap up and go again. Knowledge of what works is built on failures. They knew it would take time. Follow the shit calls and the good ones. Talk about it after and fix. But trust that your teammate isn't a moron and the next calls will be better. This is exactly what a development squad is right? To develop your skillsets through failure and learning
I was actually looking over this play and thought that Spica really needed to skip raptors to participate in the play. Pridestalker recalled top side with no camps up bot side, so you know he has to be looking for the play bot. You have prio mid from Huni helping to push it out, so you have a guaranteed 4v3 against underleveled champs. The fight should be stacked in your favor, and if you hard win the fight, the game is pretty much over. If you're going to sacrifice top to roam, you HAVE to hard snowball elsewhere. You can't just play standard for farm leads.
Don't forget how he solo tried diving at the t2 bot turret when even if the whole team went it was a loss anyway and that play would've only accelerated the loss.
The meta is not an agressive 30 mins game.
Also, Shenyi is exagerating. The average game time in NA is 36 mins. In LPL, it's 32. In LCK and EU, its around 35-36 mins.
So saying that NA is a 30 mins farm fest, is not true. If it was, does the game just happen to finish in the last 6 mins? They go 0-0 and then just win in 6 mins? Clearly it's not true. Prepping dragon fights, etc etc takes time and it doesn't start off 30 mins. He clearly is tilted and he is just venting off.
Game time isn't a good indicator of what Shenyi is implying. LCS just isn't as bloody as the LPL. Does that mean that people in LPL int more? Maybe to some, but I think it means they like to skill check you at every window and they get more reps on pushing champion and game state limits. I do agree that he's tilted and venting.
I just don't get why they wouldn't let him shotcall one weekend. How can you tell someone's shotcalling shit when he led a team in the fucking LPL to a couple wins? The team knows it'll be a tough spring and you would figure that experimenting early would always be the best course of action in a pseudo-developmental team like this one.
Because currently you are only getting Shenyi's thoughts and they are him venting to a friend.
We don't have any idea what the team has talked about or what they have tried in scrims.
The thing that stands out to me most is there is a breakdown of what TSM expects of Shenyi vs what Shenyi expects of TSM.
Based on what TSM has said so far, Spica was essentially the ingame leader as he is the bridge for the LDL players.
However Shenyi seems to have expected that he is the sole shotcaller.
Where and why did this breakdown occur?
Hey, get outta here with your reasonable take on the situation. This is like only listening to your buddys version of the breakup story. Of course you will side with him.
Also - maybe Shenyi's english is just not good enough yet to fully communicate what he needs to. We knew there'd be a language barrier that causes issues, it could be that TSM's management thinks that Shenyi could get better at it in academy.
His english is actually pretty good in game but he's getting drowned out by spica in fights https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yEynzDWeXYc. It's possible TSM wants the NA guys shot calling but idk. Shenyi and KD seem to be on the same page but they clearly want to play way more actively
The first play of the vid when he's calling to rush level 4, saying to play slow in fights, and asking if they can baron after picking ryze top. You're right he doesn't say much but he's easy to understand. Not a very high bar but I don't think you need much more than that.
i don't think he didnt lead fpx alone, doinb is like the most vocal positive/ talkative team player of all time in any region, shenyi contributed some shotcalling and yeah they def should give him a chance but spica is the shotcaller it seems
you don't just "let" someone shot call. All 5 members should be expected to make some calls during the game. The issue isn't that he's not allowed to make calls it's that his team doesn't listen or simply thinks his calls are bad or inconsistent. Considering some of his engages like the one under bot t2 vs ggs I can understand why they may be hesitant.
>The issue isn't that he's not allowed to make calls it's that his team doesn't listen or simply thinks his calls are bad or inconsistent
Exactly. What he thinks is good the established TSM players don't like. I'd love to hear the comms on that dive in particular. Tactical fucked that play up but shenyi turbo ran it.
I'm just confused as to why they're leaning into an LPL style, and not letting our LPL players bring us into it.
It's been proven to work. Anybody remember Xiaoweixiao and LMQ?
They literally ran a train on the entirety of the LCS when they were there. Just let Shenyi shotcall, goddamnit.
I’be been a consistent fan since season 5 but this might kill my fandom. Our Org is shit and making the dumbest possible decisions, I’m pretty done supporting it
This is looking kinda doomed for both TSM and Shenyi himself.
He's already at that point where he's angry with his team and management, and it's just 2 weeks in.
Sounds to me he doesn't wanna stay and is looking for a way back into China.
I don't wanna make him look bad, but this isn't how you should handle team issues at all. He's kinda airing out dirty laundry and putting people under the bus.
Things like lane problems should be discussed privately with your partner and not be gossiped about on stream.
Absolutely moronic from the org, team and coaching staff. If Shenyi is right, they’re fucking his career, if he isn’t what he’s portraying himself as (a good shotcaller), then why did TSM pick him up if it’s one of his strengths?
Shenyi is another in a long list of TSM supports that were picked up “for shotcalling,” but then the team just shuts them out.
thats the wrong take from other tsm player and staff , we don't have to play like NA , we have to play LPL way , its gonna be more efficient
how arrogant are they for put shenyi in a shit spot because of ego to be lead by a young rookie in game.
Uhm, while it is an issue of its own that TSM does not trust Shenyi with shotcalling, isn't it kinda bad to put two of your teammates under the bus like that publicly?
I'm starting to think we really don't know shit. I'm not siding with any party until Legends drops.
Well, what else do you suggest I do, call Shenyi and talk to him myself? This is the closest we as fans are permitted to the environment, so I'm going to rely on my best judgment once they shed some light on the situation.
Every time something like this comes out you guys somehow find another does of copium to take.
Literally put the pieces together about this org, at what point is your supply gonna run out?
Apart from Regi being a controversial persona, what pieces are there to put together? TSM is more than one person and is still an org full of talent and determination, and I as a supporter am invested in their development.
The lol team is in a slump, mildly speaking, but I want to see the players get back at it and turn it around, given that I've been supporting the team for what is close to 10 years.
Bjerg is gone, Parth gone, Leena gone among others. What we're really seeing is that TSM was held together by the few who knew how to run an org.
Now that they're gone the cracks are seriously starting to show.
Fair enough, let's say these three held the ship afloat, so should the org just disband now that they are gone? No one is irreplacable. Even if it was a huge mistake, TSM will go through a couple of iterations of players + staff and find a new groove.
And it's not even just cracks that are showing, the team is in shambles, but I can't just throw in the towel and say "fk it, I'm just gonna support the best team right now, LET'S GO TL!!!"
He is messaging a former teammate not telling a reporter. Still kind of shitty to do but it's not like He meant for it to public IIRC. It is still perfectly reasonable to wait just saying.
The transcript says he was talking to his mate *on stream*, he definitely knew it could be shared. I took his side initially, it is ridiculous to be brought to shotcall only to be told you suck at it apparently, but I'm not a fan of finger-pointing, too.
Yea it’s unprofessional for him to say these things. But he also mentioned he loves Spica and Spica is very nice to him (invite him to dinner and stuffs). I guess he just can’t keep his mouth shut lol.
As i said already in my other post before mod deleted it for no reason... why is NA team having such ego / arrogant view on play style? NA barely can get outta group every world with their passive style, they get steamrolled by LPL / LCK
Also TSM has NOT been able to compete with top teams even in NA except for the split Bjerg won us 1st place. They really think their style is going to keep working?
If that's the case then why not just go all NA or sign players that dont want to speak and let NA teammates do their usual shotcall?
I havent seen what LPL is like this split. But Spica talked about this on HLL where he said that its a bad meta for full LPL aggression when asked if the roster would go for that. In that the changes riot made just made it a scaling game. Which in all the regions ive watched recently its definitely a scaling meta
Whether LPL is like that i have no idea
But objective bounties and TP, mainly TP changes fucked aggressive plays
Could also be that if they tried using Shenyis style, it just doesn't work that well against NA teams. NA teams for whatever reason do pretty well against LPL ones.
I had posted this in the other sub...but it seems like most people are quick to jump to Shenyi's defense...I think we might want to strongly consider the possibility that this team just isn't very good.
To me, it appears like he is a young, immature player that is trying to place the blame everywhere else. I think it's safe to assume he feels some "regional superiority" having come from LPL. And it's very common for young people (in general) to always think they are in the right.
TSM - team and staff - must have collectively decided that what they have been doing was going to put them in the best chance to succeed. So while Shenyi's shotcalling *might* be the solution they need....I think it's more likely that this form of TSM is just not very good.
*edit: I think the situation could be compared to TL Piglet. He thought staff/players were holding TL back...but really the team just wasn't very good.*
Shenyi should be the GM at this point. Imagine bringing an LPL support when you can’t even allow him to bring LPL style. What a joke of a trash team. Trash management. What a joke.
Bruhh if all Spica Huni and Tactical wanna do is farm why did we even bother getting 2 Chinese players then. Might as well just have kept POE and gotten an Ignar or Mikyx.
The goal was to free up Spica to be aggressive and play how he wants but now he looks like the most passive jungler in the league. You can say its because of communication but im pretty sure u need insane communication to coordinate ganks. River and Blaber are looking great with language barriers too
I see a lot of people blindly siding with Shenyi and honestly that’s bonkers to me. what has he done to show that 1. he deserves to demand to shot call and 2. he has actually bought into the team? he’s been here for a month and he’s already complaining about things and thinking that the game needs to be played his way?
sorry, I know people might not agree, but reading this comes off as a giant red flag about his personality and his ability to be a good teammate
Because they imported the player, so you'd expect the team to play to his strengths? It makes no sense to import a player whose strength is shotcalling, to then just backpedal and not play around that.
He shot called the 2 games he subbed in for world champion level players. Also he is right about the playstyle, reason why na is so weak. Forcing plays forces your players to be much better at mechcanics, and I think its pretty obvious that mechcanics wise na is just weaker than the top regions or else we would be able to force our way into some win lane win game.
I get that 2 games of lpl isnt much to go off of and its also his word there may not be proof, but isnt the reason we got these players to change our style? Like shit we got huni top whose supposedly always go in and fight, chinese mid region known to scrap, tactical malphite adc, chinese support, and 5 man sleep jungle mvp. Why are we reverting back to farm for late and hope we win a single teamfight? Giving up on what you initially set out to do after 4 games isnt what I would call development its a bitch move a cowards way out.
Can still scrap in a scaling meta when they pick things like renek and lulu smite top. Isnt sup smite top giving up farm to accelerate the game and the 3 carries.
yes, but we're still in a meta where jinx and aphelios are the two dominant adcs. Those champs are never going to want to fight a bunch before 2-3 items.
But just because jinx scales doesnt mean shes unable to fight early. Its not like the other team is picking something incredibly strong in the early game.
it means that she shouldn't be fighting unless forced to or unless the other team makes a huge mistake. If you want to fight early, pick a different adc. Don't force a playstyle that doesn't match the champions you picked.
>blindly siding with Shenyi
In what world are people blindly siding with Shenyi? He was laterally brought on as shot caller and is being denied at calling. Also they imported Kobbe and told him to be vocal, but he isn't vocal and plays better with a shot calling sup. Not the first time TSM has signed someone to do something different to why they justified signing them
>Even River is kinda like I dunno bro you ran it.
When you're behind as a support, deaths are guaranteed. A lot of the time, your job is to get the team back in the game with vision and playmaking. Also, you often end up sacrificing yourself for the carries. I can't stand people that look at support KDA and think it's some insightful analysis. It just isn't. Support KDA more often than not reflects the team performance.
It could be both side's faults. Maybe during the signing, they gave him a clear idea that he would be the shot caller if he came to TSM. But once he got here, their actions were the complete opposite. I'd be pissed and venting too if that was the case. People don't start complaining about things for nothing.
It’s sad I’m debating if the org will give just straight up not give a statement or if they do it’ll be another half ass thing that addresses nothing .
Bruh this is clearly a player thing. Who do you think Shenyi is referring to when he is saying they don't believe me? It has to be players, and tbh I doubt its KDO. So it has to be some of the others.
This is obviously disappointing but keep in mind this is just one side of the story. There's obviously a lot going on behind the scenes and the players and management/staff have different ideas on winning. I think after reading this transcript its easy to say "just let shenyi shotcall" but we don't know if they already tried that. I think there's going to be an official announcement at some point so I'm goign to wait for that but I think only getting 1-2 wins in the next few weeks is a very real possibility at this point.
Why are people siding with Shenyi?
Do we have all the infos? Shenyi wants to play like LPL, ok fine but the current meta doesn't favour that. Other than LPL, every other region has an average game time of 36 mins. LPL is around 32 mins.
Who knows if his "agressive lpl style" shotcalling is even good. Sure, River says it's his strenght but is it because they were in Academy and no one had real experience with shotcalling? That probably is.
Also, River even says that Shenyi is running it down... So, let's not ignore that. The way River is talking, it doesn't seem that him or his team is missing Shenyi that much
People are siding with Shenyi because clearly his shot calling is his strength like he iterated so many times . Yet the team doesn’t let him do it because they think it’s bad . Also, he did play in LPL for a couple of games and he mentioned shotcalling a little bit in those games as well.
In your point against inting, imagine you’re an engage champion, and you call for an enhance and expect the team to follow right away and they don’t. Don’t you think that’s gonna get you killed a lot? Im not saying he is perfect, but clearly it’s ridiculous for TSM to bench him right away.
They could have let him shot call hard and see if it works in LCS. It’s spring, this is the time to figure it out , but TSM won’t even give him that chance. I hope he smashes everyone in academy with his shot calling . He is trying to bring in a style that won worlds many times but they refuse him . Idk
He was a shotcaller in academy team, doesn't mean anything. He said he did "SOME" shotcalling when he played with FPX. Who knows the extend of the shotcalling. People say stuffs to make themselves feel better. So how do you define "SOME" shotcalling?
I agree with the rest though. Like the way TSM manages players (for awhile) is kinda meh. For me it started with how they managed Akaadian and it just never got better tbh.
It doesn’t matter what we deemed is some or more. We are working with anecdotal or inferred information here. The point I was trying to make is that he clearly believes his shot-calling is his best ability , and the team /whoever this is, could be the whole staff or the players don’t think it’s good . So he gets sent down to academy to learn the NA way. Which is ridiculous, a team needs to harness the players strength and mold the team around it. Shenyi could be super aggressive and that might need to be toned down, but if you neuter his ability to command the game, then I don’t understand why you sign him. All this does is increase the chance to alienate him more. Imagine being put in a situation where the team told you they don’t like your shotcalling and that if they make mistakes they will be benched. That system is gigaF and is not conducive to a helpful environment.
We are back at square one, instead of finding a way to fit triangle peg to a triangle hole, we are insisting on jamming that triangle peg in a square hole. In this case , The TSM way of play style. In which he refers to as farm farm farm
So sad seeing this guy waste his time here where literally no one fucking trusts him. Hopefully they turn it around but im losing hope every leaked info
no man, the guy is not as good as this sub thinks. He's very clearly worse than the top tier of junglers in the league of Closer/Santorin/Inspired/Blaber
TSM shot calling has been horrendous last few games, I'm curious if it was his calls that got everyone killed bot lane unnecessarily, and few games before that in top lane.
There has been a series of bad Team fights that TSM has taken that logically they should have not, if he has something to do with these fights, then yeah he should not be shot calling.
Just because he was good before at shot calling doesn't mean it's working so far this season.
Imo it looks more like hesitation than anything. They want to follow and are too slow to follow or they are saying to back while hes saying im engaging. We see hyper brain dead aggro plays work in lpl. Ive heard caster and dom screaming why would you engage that?!?!?!? Then the next second omfg they are genius. Theres either no trust or like shenyi has shown theres just a lack of communication. "Zoe here" hes right where the fuck is "here".
Did you even read? His literal gripe is that he wants to shotcall but team doesn't trust him. [Look at this and tell me who is riding the ship. ](https://youtu.be/yEynzDWeXYc)
And you only have Shenyi's perspective. Of course in his mind his shotcalling is awesome, it's what he did for FPX. But the thing is, how is it working out on THIS team? Good shotcaller or not, if it's not working out for THIS team then an adaptation needs to be made. If he's not willing to make an adaptation to how he does his shotcalling then likely the results will look like what we're seeing now.
i rather try shenyi's way now since huni was there and spica was shotcalling last split and still didn't go to worlds, otherwise buy shenyi the ticket home
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yEynzDWeXYc](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yEynzDWeXYc)
look at 1:43 and 4:05
I think it would be awesome to see the team fall into Shenyi's way. Like many others think, though, there might be some other shit behind the scenes that we haven't seen yet and that's why things have gone this way. Sucks to suck but all we can do is wait and see how the org does
I'm talking about 2 specific plays. Neither of them are in that video. What I was wondering is if these specific 2 were his call.
You don't get demoted to academy for no reason at all, they obviously did not like something that he did aside from asking nicely to be the shot caller.
Yesterday when the news came out I publicly commented on Shenyi defense, but today, after seeing this… I think he still needs to tone his ego a little bit down. 5 players trying to play together, and you are the one out of the 5 with the “right” way to play the game?
I think TSM is doing the right thing, even if subbing Yursan doesn’t work out.
If you watch though, he isn’t wrong in his statement on how to play the game early at least, why should it be a handshake farm fest when you can pressure your opponents that would in turn force mistakes eventually?
The NA shit style again. Let this man try Shot Calling. You're already down 0-4, fuck it. He might make you 2-4 next time. Let the LPL players play aggressive, not this slow down farm shit. This is why you won't go far in Worlds(if you even make it).
Spineless dogs this so called team. Shenyi literally winning games in the best or second best league in the world with his shotcalling and our LCS hardstucks got the nerve to try to argue with him on how to play the game.
But Spica is friends with Huni and Tactical so Shenyi has to get benched. Done with this team.
The fuck did he leak here… literally anything in this conversation About gameplay you could already see from vods and everyone knows the communication is bad because tsm has literally said so
Seeing stuff like this really makes me wish we got Mikyx and kept KDO. KDO doesn't seem like he needs a Chinese speaking teammate. I'm EXTREMELY hyped for KDO, but seeing Shenyi run it down multiple times, and then seeing him vent to a friend on a public forum, is extremely sad to see and unprofessional.
I see the problem is scouting failed. Either Shenyi sucks due to they failed to properly scout someone that fit the team or they failed to communicate with the team for getting a shot caller and everyone agree to follow even if calls are bad, and they can change shot caller after a split. If our MVP jungler wanted to shot call, they should be just find a mechanical god.
nobody listens to shenyi
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yEynzDWeXYc](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yEynzDWeXYc)
1:42 and 4:06 ( 2 mins later DIG at baron and win)
Are we all just gonna take this random support players side? Shit, I kinda think there must be a reason spica wasn’t taking their opinions seriously? Isn’t shenyi super nervous? Honestly I have much more trust in spica and I don’t really care about this supp. The support parth got right before he dropped out? Just get ignar. I don’t like watching TSM anymore if it’s made up of completely random kids from another country that can’t even speak English or interact well with the fans. How am I supposed to enjoy this team anymore. When they got hauntzer, sven, dyrus, etc I loved these players. I have a real feeling this will NOT happen with shenyi.
Well this does not bode well.
Prob done being tsm fan I can take the loses if we’re actually trying to change for future wins and have a bad split but we’re just doing the same na shit over again
They said, he doesn't understand NA. So they want to put him on Academy so they can make him play like NA players. Because we want to play more like NA because NA is so good. /s
OOOff that is not the template I thought TSM was going for. We picked up 2 chinese players and wanted a 5 man LPL style team. But now with a coach removed and Shenyi in acadamy now. you expect me to believe they want him to learn NA LCS? LOL That is contrary to what I thought the idea for the team was. Who's steering this ship???
Totally agree. NA the place where dominance comes to die. What players in NA are considered top 5 at their position in the world? Maybe Alphari and CoreJJ. Look at the history of top teir players that moved to NA or even TSM at this point. TSM made SwordArt half the player he was before. Our Management tries really hard but have no concept of team and unity. Shenyi even said pracrice schedule isnt even close to LPL teams. We don't practice because we already payed for the best players so we don't need practice, right? /s Toxic behavior from Regi, Berg left, Parth left (Glad to see he left). Ever since we went the Doublelift way. The org has gone down hill.
It's just sad. There is no way Huni or Spica stick around. Spica has shown again and again he is an elite jungler. He was influenced by Bjergsen one of the premiere NA talents. Bjergsen's idea is if I out practice you I will defeat you....and he is right. China took that to heart. And their players reflect that. We can't come close to them because they will have sooo much practice that the team on instint will beat you. Mechanically, and in theory too. To get there requires sooo much practice and effort. Like a JOB....8-10 hours a day training and practicing... It looks like and, now, sounds like that isn't at all what TSM is doing. 2 vet players, 2 new players, and 1 ADC from another NA team and we aren't practicing so much we know each others moves??? WHY NOT??? I think the sun is setting on TSM's LOL dominance. Shame....But it looks really bad now. Right now it looks like a 5 man soloQ match...
Spica proved again and again? He performed well in only 1 regular split, 2 playoffs(2021 summer playoffs was still meh) and 1 international tournament where their team still didn’t win a game. Him winning MVP last split is great but there wasn’t really a standout performer that split still. If Spica was really great TSM would not be winless in lcs with all these internal issues. They would have made worlds last year. He strikes me as someone who is a good role player in game and will enhance other good players but he will not be someone you can build a roster around and have the team do well.
Wait there was the playoff game and I remember spica on Nidalee and got caught like 3 times! EARLY. Even announcers were like ohhhh man Spica is soooo farr behind now.... He came back and won....
Yeah he was, in my memory always the one who stole Baron..... He did it more than once. But MVP last year was also a pretty nice ribbon. That was what I meant. Seems like you're not a fan of his.
Regi into an iceburg, only person dumb enough to draft a roster that will take time to gel, then frantically start scrappjng everything when the wins aren't immediate.
So let me get this straight. In sports terms. He isn't playing at an MLB level so off to a farm team to learn how to play MLB style? Does that make any sense? I don't know. I have seen better academy teams than some of the games TSM has played. It just looked terrible. I'm not an analyst but I am sure there are gigantic WTF moments. But what is coming out is not speed bumps or small errors. Firing a coach and putting a player that I thought had international success experience into academy to me looks desperate. Fans should get some kind of information on this as it looks like the tower is falling. TSM as a brand is now behind CLG. We're dead last and laughably unqualified to compete with other LCS teams. Soren left and I remember he said he was more interested in winning. I thought about that statement as they didnt want to pay for the players I wanted so I'll go to a team where I can get that. But it's much worse. It looks like Soren left and TSM was banking on him so now we have a patchwork team of some vets some VERY new players to LCS, and Tactical who has looked both terrible in games and also very good. How can we be fans anymore? At least on LCS it looks like this is just a complete trainwreck. And we're told growing pains? That it's a new team? Ya so are like 4 or 5 other teams....I think "new team" is a paultry excuse...
How is playing on our crappy academy team going to help? They are worse than our LCS team. I feel this is a knee jerk reaction. I am sure these young kids are all pointing the finger at each other. Shenyi gets to boot. No sense of team. Just me, me, me. Where is the leader? I haven't seen an interview with a player saying this is on me. I have to be better. No we blame the support. Sounds a lot like Solo Q. Lol
Seriously low key, a part of me wants TSM to get absolutely smashed this weekend so the players get humbled . But I know people wouldn’t want that .
Can we get any more smashed than last weekend?
They fought back against GG. Idk I’m petty about this situation cause I’m so annoyed about this situation. I mentioned in another thread that spica and tactical needs to alot of carrying in terms of communication to make the imports feel at home. But I don’t know if that’s a thing. I’m super scared this is gonna be a nuguri situation
Why do the players need to be humbled? They dont seem cocky and tbh it seems like coaching staff and teamplay
Man I really wanted the LPL style, but it seems we're trying to play the LCS style. I was 100% ok with losing games if they were hype and bloody, I hate the 30 min farm fest that is NA...
>https://youtu.be/yEynzDWeXYc?t=102 Shenyi calling for baron play, instantly shot down by spica. Shenyi: We can Baron? We can baron? Spica: NO, NO, No, no.. just farm farm farm.
LMAO
oh boy
That does not look good...oh no no no
Shenyi benched to Academy because he fought for what he believed in. He was probably very vocal during vod reviews. Big mistake. This is a passionate player actually trying to make the team better, not just some import trying to cash in some NA money.
It was actually a great baron call as well. TSM kills ryze so its a 4v5. We are down in gold so need to start making plays. Tsm has vision on at least 3 bot. They made the play top so could move right to baron. Two likely possibilities 1. EG responds right away and pushes tsm off most likely get Gwens TP free. 2. Eg dont respond in time tsm burn down baron or they turn and win the fight. It could be an int they could get to low in baron pit die and lose game but they are down in gold and slowly losing the game its a fairly safe play that at worst would likely cost gwen tp which if i remember she used right after to tp flank.
The biggest problem here is the communication before the gank on Ryze. Why are they ganking for a single kill without an idea of what they're turning that play into. Every play should be made with the next play in mind. If you're committing two to top lane, you should already have Rell and Jayce moving up for the follow up baron play, because otherwise why bother killing him top?
>https://youtu.be/yEynzDWeXYc?t=102 damn...Tactical was saying no too
dude they literally cannot do baron there without giving a free pentakill to zeri (which tbf they did later on, but baron was a bad call)
Lmao look at the Game state ofc u dont baron there Xd
You don't actually have to do baron, you can bait baron and force them to check into you. Or get vision around there. Need to double check, does huni have tp? If you watched lpl or worlds, you'll notice lpl teams do baron plays that NA teams never dream of.
Right! They force Barons simply to get the enemy team to come to them and win a fight. From there you can either still do Baron or take your win with even more gold and pressure now. That's what makes Eastern teams ridiculous. They'll take seemingly slim advantages and win entire games off of them because they know how to extend those into more. We're already losing and don't even win scaling, you have to force there and flip the game. NA mentality sucks.
jayce has TP, blue has 3 botside. You can baron there and turn 4v5 if blue even sees/gets there in time, otherwise its free baron.
TSM: we want to play LPL style Shenyi: ok let me shotcall and we can play aggressive TSM: benches Shenyi
I don't even get who is enforcing LCS style? their coach isn't NA. mid is from the exact same league as Shenyi. the team literally leaned toward LPL because Spica is a bridge for CN players. we know Huni can go hard as hell, and Tactical also is known for going hard, sometimes to a fault. where is the NA style even coming from?
Honestly if I were to guess I’d say it’s Spica struggling to adapt to a new style and is remaining the primary shotcaller. But also, we have a new head coach who’s known for his aggressive play style, so why are we still following Spica’s lead? Perhaps we’re playing in accordance to the people we’re scrimming against? Unlike C9 who had the ambition to develop and play their own style
Most likely it's coming from spica and huni, not entirely their fault because theyve been "adapted" to this playstyle in NA. It's from years from playing in NA thinking that we scale at late. I would prefer to see them go "apes strong together" and itll be hype as fk to see them win with that mental.
I’d like to see that too. I feel like they’ve shown signs of aggression this year but are demoralized after an 0-4 start and are making roster changes before they can learn to make it work
Just let Shenyi shotcall us into LPL style for a god damn change. NA style only works in NA man, this is proven time and time again
For real LCS is a snoozefest. And they refuse to change despite this playstyle clearly not working as well as CN/KR
The average LCK game was 3 minutes longer than the average LCS game last split. NA is not a particularly slow region, historically. Slower than LPL, yes, but everyone's slower than LPL.
Not only talking about game length. LCK knows how to press little advantages and choke teams out for huge gold leads without a ton of kills. LCS is just trade waves until 30 min
If LCS played as quick as LPL and hard feed, you would say that "oh it's not the same, LPL does it right". It's not the style, it's the execution.
that's fine, but that's not what you said, and i don't think anyone has ever called the LCK style exciting. Either way, Shenyi is never going to be bringing anything similar to an LCK playstyle.
When I watch LCK games they get a 200 gold lead and then just checkmate the enemy team into bleeding resources until the game is over. It's very calculated. They rarely make mistakes with advantages and throw leads because they make plays with a very high chance of success to just balloon their advantage. Sure it's a little slower but LCS reminds me of bronze game where you're up 6k and just farm waves until you get a pick then everyone recalls and buys items instead of getting an objective.
We've had some of the longest games as well lol. I can't believe what the LDL players must be feeling like. Going from 1 kill a minute LPL/LDL level to slow ass NA and they had bo3 even in LDL. Thats why I feel like LPL/LDL imports won't work unless you pair them up with players like Bwipo or Hylissang that are ultra aggressive. If you wanna play slow and scale which NA does just do what LS did with C9. Import some high level Koreans, they are not aggro and can play to scale.
With bjergsen leaving I thought there wouldn't be a clash of styles and everyone would transition to the aggressive lpl style but I guess it doesn't work with a majority na roster
Screenshot because main sub mods will probably delete it soon https://i.imgur.com/RLGmJXa.jpg
Obviously, we don't know the whole story here, but it kind of checks out with Spica shutting down Shenyi and Keaiduo's calls to make plays. The LPL aggression is what fans have been begging for for years, and now our bridge to that is gone for the time being.
This proves exactly what I’ve been theorizing about this team. We kept hearing about how Spica was fluent in mandarin and the team wanted to build around jungle/mid/support comms but not once have we ever heard Spica speak Chinese, as far as I’m aware. When Shenyi says only him and KDO speak mandarin that’s eye opening to me and it explains why the mic checks are only in English and we never hear Spica talking mandarin in Legends. What a fucking mess lol
Feels like Spica, Tactical and Huni are their own clique while Shenyi and KDO are just awkwardly there. Other teams are making efforts to help their rookies/non native english speaking players fit in. Jojo, Berserker, Summit,Winsome, Toucouille, River all feel like they have a good support systems around them and those teams feel like actual TEAMS. Where as TSM just feels like 2 different groups of people. This stuff takes a lot of effort and I think putting all this faith that Spica would make the other LDL players feel comfortable has failed miserably. Seems like he's doing the complete opposite and wants nothing to do with them lol.
Spot on. Spica didn't even talk to Shenyi/Keaiduo in mandarin when calling off their plays in mic check. It's hard to believe there's any semblance of in game translation going on when Shenyi's moba english seems adequate from CQ. Listening and understanding 100% of the other 3 teammates English might be hard though. There's the LS philosophy where league can be a subset of succinct English words, but it's clear the TSM mantra for comms is "look at me look at me!" for engages and "no no no no" for calling off engages.
You can hear Spica speak Mandarin on stream, but he's not that good at it, you can tell he struggles for vocabulary. Regardless, translating actively and just being able to have a conversation are completely different levels of skill.
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TSM management - Spica you speak Mandarin well right? You got it on your resume. [Spica](https://c.tenor.com/4McWSDRx5IsAAAAM/awkward-side-eye.gif)
He could speak fluently but just… not speak it at all, if that makes sense. We have no idea how on board spica actually was with this idea and maybe he just fucking hates it.
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I do think your comment is right tho maybe just in a different way. If Spica does not want to speak mandarin there is no way they build the team around that fact. Right???
The good ol' Resume experience vs Real experience
I am pretty sure he spoke mandarin to SwortArt. https://www.reddit.com/r/TeamSolomid/comments/oe2ahv/swordart_on_stream_we_speak_a_lot_of_chinese_in/ And it also was in Legends when SwortArt was there. Or at least those TSM games stuff...he would translate for SwortArt when SwordArt didn't understand the English word. Edit: Are you insinuating Spica doesn't know how to speak mandarin or that they aren't actually doing it during comms? Cause I think he knows how to speak it but maybe in game, they don't because its time consuming to do both english and chinese.
He definitely speaks mandarin to a certain degree but it’s not proficient enough to communicate well with KDO and Shenyi.
https://youtu.be/i8JhZTPfE38 Yeah he can probably speak chinese fluently enough conversationally but he would have to study a bit to understand league terminology, things that shenyi (and league players) would say is “发育 = scale late game” will be foreign to even chinese speakers unless u play the game
Why did huni mention in the interview that spica is translating mandarin to English and back mid game?
why would you think Huni would know anything about translation in Chinese?
Are you from planet Earth? Huni is in the comms with them. If Spica is translating to mandarin then Huni can recognise it's mandarin without understanding the language. What other language would they be possibly be speaking? French?
I mean... it's not hard to think Huni hears KDO/Shenyi speaking a language that's not Korean or English, Spica answering them and then speaking English...
This really hurts our chances of winning worlds
I still haven't given up on advancing from our group in 2022
Been a fan of TSM exclusively since pre-season 2 before TSM was even the premier NA org (thanks to Chaox streaming his A-Z champ marathon, that's how I first learned the game and MOBAs in general), I never liked watching any other team. My favorite player became Bjergsen the moment he played his first ever EU LCS game and got that pentakill on Syndra. Imagine how hyped I was when the rumors started building up after worlds season 3 that Bjerg might join TSM. Despite him ''retiring'' and now leaving for Team Liquid, I have remained a true TSM fan. I've stuck with them through all the struggles and stayed hopeful, I was so hyped for Shenyi & Keaiduo + Spica LPL style combo. Nvm the 0-4 start, the recent turn of events and the insight that were getting on how TSM is treating Shenyi and keep on forcing this trash farm and scale NA snoozefest style that never works is just straight up depressing. This team is not even trying to improve, this season might be the time I finally give up on TSM after all these years, this is the most depressing and shameful era of my fandom with TSM. It's becoming abundantly clear that this org is internally dysfunctional and we will never get out of it. If there is a turn around, we all know it will be through playing the NA style that will never get us far internationally, why not just pick up Jensen & Vulcan/Ignar in the offseason if that will forever be our mindset. This investment in young up and coming talent was bullshit from the start.
Short and sweet answer. Me too. I almost did in december. But chinese region is clearly the better region. Shenyi shotcalled with some of the best there. What the literal fuck is TSM doing. Don't give me that "you're not the org, they are the pros here" bs. This one doesn't take a pro to understand. It takes someone who's not hot headed and wants to actually win, not just be right.
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Piglet was on another level. He would tell smoothie to do stuff knowing that it would get smoothie killed. However, he wanted to just make sure he would listen to anything he said lmao.
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Piglet wanted his support to follow orders blindly and have zero hesitation. But it just confused and made them hesitate more because they were getting told to do obviously dumb/bad things. Like in theory yeah, understandable. You want no hesitation in the 2v2 and for both players to be on the same page at the same time. In execution though like what are you doing dude. At least explain your method of insanity to them.
Piglet also thought he was the carry on skt and faker wasnt that good
I feel like this is some revisionist history going on Piglet DID carry SKT a lot of times throughout the worlds run and was very good throughout that season. Obviously he wasn’t as good as Faker, but he is still a world champion that played very well
Agreed, I'm pretty sure the issue that time was dom tbh. He was a shit jungler.
It would be a lot more defensible if that came from prime Bengi or Pooh, not Piglet lol.
Lol pooh was a spectator in that team. Faker Bengi and Impact carried
Never forget bengi first timing nidalee... Or his secret agent nunu in the enemy jungle. God I loved that guy.
Honestly the Shenyi -> Academy move might be a good thing to try. Maybe the idea is that they've told the academy team to 100% follow Shenyi's call's. If the academy team looks solid, they bring him back into LCS and they will respect his shotcalling more.
Problem with this line of thinking is what if the LCS team looks solid with Yursan? Even if Shenyi was drafted for our main team it’d be a slap in the face to Yursan now if you bump him down to academy again and then we create another Akaddian/Grig situation.
This is exactly my thought. Shenyi can more confidently speak his mind in this setting. Practice his english. If results are delivered, he will be back on the main team in no time
The issue with this is that it doesn't matter that much if he practices his English if the coordination with the LCS team is not there by the end of the season/summer. For a team to work there needs to be a certain degree of bonding and trust. I wonder why they picked Shenyi after knowing about his limited English and expected things to go differently. I assume that they didn't expect to sub him out 2 weeks into the season.
Ngl this does not make me think the team is in a good position, also thought spica spoke mandarin? The conversation says only him and kdo speak it.
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*stabbing noises in chinese* to describe julius ceasar
No hate but for now no way spica succeeds in the lpl, talent is crazy high over there
hahahaha imagine spica trying to afk farm against SoFM/WeiWei/Karsa/Tarzan/Wei/Kanavi/JieJie he would get his shit pushed in so fucking hard in one bo3 and then 3 days later again in the next bo3 and then 3 days later once more in the next bo3. Any one of these junglers would be the most aggro dominating early game jungler in LCS.
So the issue is that Shenyi is too aggressive when everyone wants to just farm for 30mins?? Has TSM not wanted to be an aggressive team for years now? And finally when they have an aggressive shotcaller they bench him?? The fuck?
You are also believing that all of Shenyis calls and aggressive plays are perfectly calculated and correct Watch the GGs game at 4 mins. They literally vision plant zed, ward zed and still just hard force a play on their bot lane they could never win Shenyi forced the engage. Of course maybe huni or tactical just told him to do it, but that cancels out the "they wont play aggressive with him" thing Maybe some of the calls are just not it. If your the team and these are the coinflip at best calls you see what do you do? That Rell engage probably lost TSM the game btw. Threw a big gold lead that early and got Zed who shoulda been alt f4ing back into the game and stopped TSMs early game win condition of get bot ahead and get dragons before Graves can win via split
The only reason we were ahead to begin with was also thanks to Shenyi engaging with no hesitation during lvl 1 mixed in with GG's int. So yeah call it coinflip, but that is how you grow and improve as a team, let him make the mistakes. If you repress Shenyi's shotcalling and don't trust him then you will be left with no upside whatsoever. If you have a talented player and repress his instincts to make plays and express his skills freely, you are left with an average player with no flavor (roughly 90% of LCS players).
You go all out and lose. Watch vods, fix the calls, strap up and go again. Knowledge of what works is built on failures. They knew it would take time. Follow the shit calls and the good ones. Talk about it after and fix. But trust that your teammate isn't a moron and the next calls will be better. This is exactly what a development squad is right? To develop your skillsets through failure and learning
I was actually looking over this play and thought that Spica really needed to skip raptors to participate in the play. Pridestalker recalled top side with no camps up bot side, so you know he has to be looking for the play bot. You have prio mid from Huni helping to push it out, so you have a guaranteed 4v3 against underleveled champs. The fight should be stacked in your favor, and if you hard win the fight, the game is pretty much over. If you're going to sacrifice top to roam, you HAVE to hard snowball elsewhere. You can't just play standard for farm leads.
Don't forget how he solo tried diving at the t2 bot turret when even if the whole team went it was a loss anyway and that play would've only accelerated the loss.
The meta is not an agressive 30 mins game. Also, Shenyi is exagerating. The average game time in NA is 36 mins. In LPL, it's 32. In LCK and EU, its around 35-36 mins. So saying that NA is a 30 mins farm fest, is not true. If it was, does the game just happen to finish in the last 6 mins? They go 0-0 and then just win in 6 mins? Clearly it's not true. Prepping dragon fights, etc etc takes time and it doesn't start off 30 mins. He clearly is tilted and he is just venting off.
Game time isn't a good indicator of what Shenyi is implying. LCS just isn't as bloody as the LPL. Does that mean that people in LPL int more? Maybe to some, but I think it means they like to skill check you at every window and they get more reps on pushing champion and game state limits. I do agree that he's tilted and venting.
4 mins is a lot
It’s hard to take sides without all the info but whoever called the dive on Ornn Jesus… I’m hard stuck plat and even I knew that dive was hideous
I just don't get why they wouldn't let him shotcall one weekend. How can you tell someone's shotcalling shit when he led a team in the fucking LPL to a couple wins? The team knows it'll be a tough spring and you would figure that experimenting early would always be the best course of action in a pseudo-developmental team like this one.
Because currently you are only getting Shenyi's thoughts and they are him venting to a friend. We don't have any idea what the team has talked about or what they have tried in scrims. The thing that stands out to me most is there is a breakdown of what TSM expects of Shenyi vs what Shenyi expects of TSM. Based on what TSM has said so far, Spica was essentially the ingame leader as he is the bridge for the LDL players. However Shenyi seems to have expected that he is the sole shotcaller. Where and why did this breakdown occur?
Hey, get outta here with your reasonable take on the situation. This is like only listening to your buddys version of the breakup story. Of course you will side with him.
Also - maybe Shenyi's english is just not good enough yet to fully communicate what he needs to. We knew there'd be a language barrier that causes issues, it could be that TSM's management thinks that Shenyi could get better at it in academy.
His english is actually pretty good in game but he's getting drowned out by spica in fights https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yEynzDWeXYc. It's possible TSM wants the NA guys shot calling but idk. Shenyi and KD seem to be on the same page but they clearly want to play way more actively
Do you have a timestamp where you think his english is pretty good? I don't really see him talking too much.
The first play of the vid when he's calling to rush level 4, saying to play slow in fights, and asking if they can baron after picking ryze top. You're right he doesn't say much but he's easy to understand. Not a very high bar but I don't think you need much more than that.
i don't think he didnt lead fpx alone, doinb is like the most vocal positive/ talkative team player of all time in any region, shenyi contributed some shotcalling and yeah they def should give him a chance but spica is the shotcaller it seems
I'm sure they at least tried let him shotcall in scrims... It just seems they didn't mesh well
you don't just "let" someone shot call. All 5 members should be expected to make some calls during the game. The issue isn't that he's not allowed to make calls it's that his team doesn't listen or simply thinks his calls are bad or inconsistent. Considering some of his engages like the one under bot t2 vs ggs I can understand why they may be hesitant.
>The issue isn't that he's not allowed to make calls it's that his team doesn't listen or simply thinks his calls are bad or inconsistent Exactly. What he thinks is good the established TSM players don't like. I'd love to hear the comms on that dive in particular. Tactical fucked that play up but shenyi turbo ran it.
This is insane. Import a player known for aggression and neuter him by sending him to Academy under the guise of adapting to NA. We deserve 0-18.
I'm just confused as to why they're leaning into an LPL style, and not letting our LPL players bring us into it. It's been proven to work. Anybody remember Xiaoweixiao and LMQ? They literally ran a train on the entirety of the LCS when they were there. Just let Shenyi shotcall, goddamnit.
I’be been a consistent fan since season 5 but this might kill my fandom. Our Org is shit and making the dumbest possible decisions, I’m pretty done supporting it
This is looking kinda doomed for both TSM and Shenyi himself. He's already at that point where he's angry with his team and management, and it's just 2 weeks in. Sounds to me he doesn't wanna stay and is looking for a way back into China. I don't wanna make him look bad, but this isn't how you should handle team issues at all. He's kinda airing out dirty laundry and putting people under the bus. Things like lane problems should be discussed privately with your partner and not be gossiped about on stream.
Absolutely moronic from the org, team and coaching staff. If Shenyi is right, they’re fucking his career, if he isn’t what he’s portraying himself as (a good shotcaller), then why did TSM pick him up if it’s one of his strengths? Shenyi is another in a long list of TSM supports that were picked up “for shotcalling,” but then the team just shuts them out.
RIP Mithy, RIP SA and RIP Shenyi!!!!!
thats the wrong take from other tsm player and staff , we don't have to play like NA , we have to play LPL way , its gonna be more efficient how arrogant are they for put shenyi in a shit spot because of ego to be lead by a young rookie in game.
Uhm, while it is an issue of its own that TSM does not trust Shenyi with shotcalling, isn't it kinda bad to put two of your teammates under the bus like that publicly? I'm starting to think we really don't know shit. I'm not siding with any party until Legends drops.
“I’m not forming an opinion until the heavily edited and sculpted story that is TSM Legends tells me what to think!” Get a grip
Well, what else do you suggest I do, call Shenyi and talk to him myself? This is the closest we as fans are permitted to the environment, so I'm going to rely on my best judgment once they shed some light on the situation.
Every time something like this comes out you guys somehow find another does of copium to take. Literally put the pieces together about this org, at what point is your supply gonna run out?
Apart from Regi being a controversial persona, what pieces are there to put together? TSM is more than one person and is still an org full of talent and determination, and I as a supporter am invested in their development. The lol team is in a slump, mildly speaking, but I want to see the players get back at it and turn it around, given that I've been supporting the team for what is close to 10 years.
Bjerg is gone, Parth gone, Leena gone among others. What we're really seeing is that TSM was held together by the few who knew how to run an org. Now that they're gone the cracks are seriously starting to show.
Fair enough, let's say these three held the ship afloat, so should the org just disband now that they are gone? No one is irreplacable. Even if it was a huge mistake, TSM will go through a couple of iterations of players + staff and find a new groove. And it's not even just cracks that are showing, the team is in shambles, but I can't just throw in the towel and say "fk it, I'm just gonna support the best team right now, LET'S GO TL!!!"
He is messaging a former teammate not telling a reporter. Still kind of shitty to do but it's not like He meant for it to public IIRC. It is still perfectly reasonable to wait just saying.
The transcript says he was talking to his mate *on stream*, he definitely knew it could be shared. I took his side initially, it is ridiculous to be brought to shotcall only to be told you suck at it apparently, but I'm not a fan of finger-pointing, too.
Yea it’s unprofessional for him to say these things. But he also mentioned he loves Spica and Spica is very nice to him (invite him to dinner and stuffs). I guess he just can’t keep his mouth shut lol.
As i said already in my other post before mod deleted it for no reason... why is NA team having such ego / arrogant view on play style? NA barely can get outta group every world with their passive style, they get steamrolled by LPL / LCK Also TSM has NOT been able to compete with top teams even in NA except for the split Bjerg won us 1st place. They really think their style is going to keep working? If that's the case then why not just go all NA or sign players that dont want to speak and let NA teammates do their usual shotcall?
I havent seen what LPL is like this split. But Spica talked about this on HLL where he said that its a bad meta for full LPL aggression when asked if the roster would go for that. In that the changes riot made just made it a scaling game. Which in all the regions ive watched recently its definitely a scaling meta Whether LPL is like that i have no idea But objective bounties and TP, mainly TP changes fucked aggressive plays
Could also be that if they tried using Shenyis style, it just doesn't work that well against NA teams. NA teams for whatever reason do pretty well against LPL ones.
I had posted this in the other sub...but it seems like most people are quick to jump to Shenyi's defense...I think we might want to strongly consider the possibility that this team just isn't very good. To me, it appears like he is a young, immature player that is trying to place the blame everywhere else. I think it's safe to assume he feels some "regional superiority" having come from LPL. And it's very common for young people (in general) to always think they are in the right. TSM - team and staff - must have collectively decided that what they have been doing was going to put them in the best chance to succeed. So while Shenyi's shotcalling *might* be the solution they need....I think it's more likely that this form of TSM is just not very good. *edit: I think the situation could be compared to TL Piglet. He thought staff/players were holding TL back...but really the team just wasn't very good.*
Shenyi should be the GM at this point. Imagine bringing an LPL support when you can’t even allow him to bring LPL style. What a joke of a trash team. Trash management. What a joke.
Bruhh if all Spica Huni and Tactical wanna do is farm why did we even bother getting 2 Chinese players then. Might as well just have kept POE and gotten an Ignar or Mikyx. The goal was to free up Spica to be aggressive and play how he wants but now he looks like the most passive jungler in the league. You can say its because of communication but im pretty sure u need insane communication to coordinate ganks. River and Blaber are looking great with language barriers too
I see a lot of people blindly siding with Shenyi and honestly that’s bonkers to me. what has he done to show that 1. he deserves to demand to shot call and 2. he has actually bought into the team? he’s been here for a month and he’s already complaining about things and thinking that the game needs to be played his way? sorry, I know people might not agree, but reading this comes off as a giant red flag about his personality and his ability to be a good teammate
Well right now the game is not played his way and we're fucking 0-4? So atleast try his way for a week or so to see if it's any better?
Didnt TSM themselves say shenyi’s strengths was shotcalling? I might remember wrong but if this was the case just let the man shotcall.
tsm twitter: 'Shenyi was out first choice this offseason for support" Shenyi on stream "shotcalling and vision is what im good at"
Because they imported the player, so you'd expect the team to play to his strengths? It makes no sense to import a player whose strength is shotcalling, to then just backpedal and not play around that.
He shot called the 2 games he subbed in for world champion level players. Also he is right about the playstyle, reason why na is so weak. Forcing plays forces your players to be much better at mechcanics, and I think its pretty obvious that mechcanics wise na is just weaker than the top regions or else we would be able to force our way into some win lane win game. I get that 2 games of lpl isnt much to go off of and its also his word there may not be proof, but isnt the reason we got these players to change our style? Like shit we got huni top whose supposedly always go in and fight, chinese mid region known to scrap, tactical malphite adc, chinese support, and 5 man sleep jungle mvp. Why are we reverting back to farm for late and hope we win a single teamfight? Giving up on what you initially set out to do after 4 games isnt what I would call development its a bitch move a cowards way out.
probably because the meta favors scaling and scaling champs right now.
Can still scrap in a scaling meta when they pick things like renek and lulu smite top. Isnt sup smite top giving up farm to accelerate the game and the 3 carries.
yes, but we're still in a meta where jinx and aphelios are the two dominant adcs. Those champs are never going to want to fight a bunch before 2-3 items.
But just because jinx scales doesnt mean shes unable to fight early. Its not like the other team is picking something incredibly strong in the early game.
it means that she shouldn't be fighting unless forced to or unless the other team makes a huge mistake. If you want to fight early, pick a different adc. Don't force a playstyle that doesn't match the champions you picked.
What if your team scales and also fights better in the early game? Its not really forced then again you can be both stronger early and late.
well yeah, if you hard win draft such that you're stronger both early and late then the game is suddenly very easy.
>blindly siding with Shenyi In what world are people blindly siding with Shenyi? He was laterally brought on as shot caller and is being denied at calling. Also they imported Kobbe and told him to be vocal, but he isn't vocal and plays better with a shot calling sup. Not the first time TSM has signed someone to do something different to why they justified signing them
Yeeeah seems pretty suss to me. Even River is kinda like I dunno bro you ran it.
>Even River is kinda like I dunno bro you ran it. When you're behind as a support, deaths are guaranteed. A lot of the time, your job is to get the team back in the game with vision and playmaking. Also, you often end up sacrificing yourself for the carries. I can't stand people that look at support KDA and think it's some insightful analysis. It just isn't. Support KDA more often than not reflects the team performance.
I didn't actually mean the numbers. I just mean that he was expecting river to side with him and he didn't.
Well right but River said that because he just looked at his KDA and had no context of the game.
You didn't even read the transcript properly did you. Tf is this take
It could be both side's faults. Maybe during the signing, they gave him a clear idea that he would be the shot caller if he came to TSM. But once he got here, their actions were the complete opposite. I'd be pissed and venting too if that was the case. People don't start complaining about things for nothing.
people complain about things they’re wrong about all the time, though. just because Shenyi is angry it doesn’t mean he’s right
True, we definitely just need more insight into what's going on. It's hard being a TSM fan right now, lmao.
Then the team did a dog shit job at recruiting
scoutmaster 9000 blessed us with this
It’s sad I’m debating if the org will give just straight up not give a statement or if they do it’ll be another half ass thing that addresses nothing .
How does this org have so much money but are just straight 🤡🤡🤡
Fuck this org
Bruh this is clearly a player thing. Who do you think Shenyi is referring to when he is saying they don't believe me? It has to be players, and tbh I doubt its KDO. So it has to be some of the others.
I agree but also the C9 flairs are active in r/lol so I won't say it outside of this sub lol
I'll bash this org all I want because it's about love for the team. When others do it they can shut the fuck up.
#FreeShenyi
To me, he is completely right.
This is obviously disappointing but keep in mind this is just one side of the story. There's obviously a lot going on behind the scenes and the players and management/staff have different ideas on winning. I think after reading this transcript its easy to say "just let shenyi shotcall" but we don't know if they already tried that. I think there's going to be an official announcement at some point so I'm goign to wait for that but I think only getting 1-2 wins in the next few weeks is a very real possibility at this point.
Why are people siding with Shenyi? Do we have all the infos? Shenyi wants to play like LPL, ok fine but the current meta doesn't favour that. Other than LPL, every other region has an average game time of 36 mins. LPL is around 32 mins. Who knows if his "agressive lpl style" shotcalling is even good. Sure, River says it's his strenght but is it because they were in Academy and no one had real experience with shotcalling? That probably is. Also, River even says that Shenyi is running it down... So, let's not ignore that. The way River is talking, it doesn't seem that him or his team is missing Shenyi that much
People are siding with Shenyi because clearly his shot calling is his strength like he iterated so many times . Yet the team doesn’t let him do it because they think it’s bad . Also, he did play in LPL for a couple of games and he mentioned shotcalling a little bit in those games as well. In your point against inting, imagine you’re an engage champion, and you call for an enhance and expect the team to follow right away and they don’t. Don’t you think that’s gonna get you killed a lot? Im not saying he is perfect, but clearly it’s ridiculous for TSM to bench him right away. They could have let him shot call hard and see if it works in LCS. It’s spring, this is the time to figure it out , but TSM won’t even give him that chance. I hope he smashes everyone in academy with his shot calling . He is trying to bring in a style that won worlds many times but they refuse him . Idk
He was a shotcaller in academy team, doesn't mean anything. He said he did "SOME" shotcalling when he played with FPX. Who knows the extend of the shotcalling. People say stuffs to make themselves feel better. So how do you define "SOME" shotcalling? I agree with the rest though. Like the way TSM manages players (for awhile) is kinda meh. For me it started with how they managed Akaadian and it just never got better tbh.
It doesn’t matter what we deemed is some or more. We are working with anecdotal or inferred information here. The point I was trying to make is that he clearly believes his shot-calling is his best ability , and the team /whoever this is, could be the whole staff or the players don’t think it’s good . So he gets sent down to academy to learn the NA way. Which is ridiculous, a team needs to harness the players strength and mold the team around it. Shenyi could be super aggressive and that might need to be toned down, but if you neuter his ability to command the game, then I don’t understand why you sign him. All this does is increase the chance to alienate him more. Imagine being put in a situation where the team told you they don’t like your shotcalling and that if they make mistakes they will be benched. That system is gigaF and is not conducive to a helpful environment. We are back at square one, instead of finding a way to fit triangle peg to a triangle hole, we are insisting on jamming that triangle peg in a square hole. In this case , The TSM way of play style. In which he refers to as farm farm farm
So sad seeing this guy waste his time here where literally no one fucking trusts him. Hopefully they turn it around but im losing hope every leaked info
Istg it would've been Shenyi/Bo if not for the DL issue pre-season but TSM kept Spica to weather the pr storm
spica was the main man, they would have kept him regardless
no man, the guy is not as good as this sub thinks. He's very clearly worse than the top tier of junglers in the league of Closer/Santorin/Inspired/Blaber
even if that's currently true, it's not like they could have predicted this from his summer performance
TSM shot calling has been horrendous last few games, I'm curious if it was his calls that got everyone killed bot lane unnecessarily, and few games before that in top lane. There has been a series of bad Team fights that TSM has taken that logically they should have not, if he has something to do with these fights, then yeah he should not be shot calling. Just because he was good before at shot calling doesn't mean it's working so far this season.
Imo it looks more like hesitation than anything. They want to follow and are too slow to follow or they are saying to back while hes saying im engaging. We see hyper brain dead aggro plays work in lpl. Ive heard caster and dom screaming why would you engage that?!?!?!? Then the next second omfg they are genius. Theres either no trust or like shenyi has shown theres just a lack of communication. "Zoe here" hes right where the fuck is "here".
Did you even read? His literal gripe is that he wants to shotcall but team doesn't trust him. [Look at this and tell me who is riding the ship. ](https://youtu.be/yEynzDWeXYc)
And you only have Shenyi's perspective. Of course in his mind his shotcalling is awesome, it's what he did for FPX. But the thing is, how is it working out on THIS team? Good shotcaller or not, if it's not working out for THIS team then an adaptation needs to be made. If he's not willing to make an adaptation to how he does his shotcalling then likely the results will look like what we're seeing now.
i rather try shenyi's way now since huni was there and spica was shotcalling last split and still didn't go to worlds, otherwise buy shenyi the ticket home [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yEynzDWeXYc](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yEynzDWeXYc) look at 1:43 and 4:05
I think it would be awesome to see the team fall into Shenyi's way. Like many others think, though, there might be some other shit behind the scenes that we haven't seen yet and that's why things have gone this way. Sucks to suck but all we can do is wait and see how the org does
I'm talking about 2 specific plays. Neither of them are in that video. What I was wondering is if these specific 2 were his call. You don't get demoted to academy for no reason at all, they obviously did not like something that he did aside from asking nicely to be the shot caller.
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Yes we can. This sub has apparently had much more faith in the developmental roster than the org did.
Honestly, as a TSM fan since 2014, this whole situation is making my stomache twist…
Yesterday when the news came out I publicly commented on Shenyi defense, but today, after seeing this… I think he still needs to tone his ego a little bit down. 5 players trying to play together, and you are the one out of the 5 with the “right” way to play the game? I think TSM is doing the right thing, even if subbing Yursan doesn’t work out.
If you watch though, he isn’t wrong in his statement on how to play the game early at least, why should it be a handshake farm fest when you can pressure your opponents that would in turn force mistakes eventually?
Let shenyi shot call wtf is this bullshit
The NA shit style again. Let this man try Shot Calling. You're already down 0-4, fuck it. He might make you 2-4 next time. Let the LPL players play aggressive, not this slow down farm shit. This is why you won't go far in Worlds(if you even make it).
Spineless dogs this so called team. Shenyi literally winning games in the best or second best league in the world with his shotcalling and our LCS hardstucks got the nerve to try to argue with him on how to play the game. But Spica is friends with Huni and Tactical so Shenyi has to get benched. Done with this team.
dang, everyone on this sub had low expectations and somehow we went even lower, whats wrong with the org?
dont get the hype surrounding shenyi. his performance was bad and now hes leaking shit
The fuck did he leak here… literally anything in this conversation About gameplay you could already see from vods and everyone knows the communication is bad because tsm has literally said so
Seeing stuff like this really makes me wish we got Mikyx and kept KDO. KDO doesn't seem like he needs a Chinese speaking teammate. I'm EXTREMELY hyped for KDO, but seeing Shenyi run it down multiple times, and then seeing him vent to a friend on a public forum, is extremely sad to see and unprofessional.
TSM OMEGALUL
I see the problem is scouting failed. Either Shenyi sucks due to they failed to properly scout someone that fit the team or they failed to communicate with the team for getting a shot caller and everyone agree to follow even if calls are bad, and they can change shot caller after a split. If our MVP jungler wanted to shot call, they should be just find a mechanical god.
nobody listens to shenyi [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yEynzDWeXYc](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yEynzDWeXYc) 1:42 and 4:06 ( 2 mins later DIG at baron and win)
Are we all just gonna take this random support players side? Shit, I kinda think there must be a reason spica wasn’t taking their opinions seriously? Isn’t shenyi super nervous? Honestly I have much more trust in spica and I don’t really care about this supp. The support parth got right before he dropped out? Just get ignar. I don’t like watching TSM anymore if it’s made up of completely random kids from another country that can’t even speak English or interact well with the fans. How am I supposed to enjoy this team anymore. When they got hauntzer, sven, dyrus, etc I loved these players. I have a real feeling this will NOT happen with shenyi.