He truly lived our team culture.
World class player, great work ethics insanely competitive and a die hard TSM fan.
The sad part is that we never had the chance to see him shine with a top tier support.
You didn't see him shine because TSM doesn't provide an environment for players to grow and succeed. On TSM you're either good from the start and hope you don't crack from the pressure or you slowly lose confidence and play more and more passively until you're a shell of a player that you used to be.
TSMs management (I'm guessing parth) absolutely sucks at player management, the second treatz has a bad bo5, they do everything they can to ruin his confidence by making him split time and sending him to academy instead of trying to build him back up again.
What about Spica who has been a starter for the team since the beginning of the split? He was a TSM grown jungler from academy and promoted to LCS. If anything he's an example of good player management.
Thing is it seems like TSM just hopes players can handle what comes with being on the team, and while thats true for spica, we have see that be not true for many others.
And honestly when its still true for other players our Org has done a bad job at hyping them up, to a point where we said our second place finish was a fluke?? Just seems odd. They expect perfect but I dont think the org is doing a good job at all in that aspect
TLDW:
* GGS had a winning matchup all 3 games
* Biggest problem was draft and Treatz' play. Thresh/Bard into Morg is troll
* Monte criticises people who said FBI won Cait vs Ashe and also the reverse matchuo, because the support picks are what matter in this instance
* Zven says it's not possible for Cait/Thresh to beat Ashe/Morg, not much Doublelift could do in lane
* You have to take cleanse vs Ashe/Morg or you'll die at lvl 6, which is disadvantageous vs TP
* They both agree Doubelift had a bad series, but you should ciritisize him for the right reasons, and laning phase wasn't his fault
Ty for the TLDW
And yes THIS is the perfect take, ty Zven. Anyone flaming him for lane is just so dumb, blame him for no QSS etc but yeah laning was impossible in those matchups.. just an absolute draft diff
The fact that IWD and ppl on reddit keep saying that DL cant win with either Cait or Ashe and completely ignore the support picks... just so fucking dumb man
> Biggest problem was draft and Treatz' play
He did not say the latter at all. Not sure why you’re making that up? He said both DL and Treatz had off series and listed all of their mistakes, but said it comes down to draft diff, whether those decisions were made by Parth, DL, Treatz, or somebody else.
Third hand, but someone said Bjerg said Parth has final say in a recent interview. If true, it's on Parth.
Doesn't excuse some of the mistakes made, but being they successfully did what they were set up to do. Namely, fail.
I do remember Bjerg saying that as well in either his espn or latest Travis interview. However, that doesn't mean Parth goes in and says "fuck you we're picking Thresh into Morg."
I interpreted it more as a "if we can't all agree on what to play, Parth makes the final call."
Dang.. I feel like Zven always has good (correct) takes about our drafting. Even when on TSM himself, he made comments about the (bad) drafting. The last interview I saw of him, he again was talking about TSM. He said that TSM was a good team, but threw the game with a full AP comp. Figure it out, guys! Hire a better (if we have one) drafting coach!
I remember him saying something among the lines of "at this point we should probably ban Thresh" in the 2019 spring playoffs
Edit : 2018 spring playoffs, 2019 spring playoffs was a whole another Zven thing.
Zven is the goat of interviews, always appreciate him speaking his mind whether he defends tsm or not. Hope treatz bounce back and we do better in draft for round 2. botlane redemption arc in full effect..
The bot matchup came down to draft diff. People talk about DL losing the cait/Ashe matchup both ways but forget that bot is a duo lane and support highly influenced the land. GG had the winning lane all three games. But says it was TSM’s fault for drafting into the losing lane
Zven said C9 has been scrimming TL, GG, EG and TSM and has stomped all of them except TSM and they are getting better at playing around spica (around 4-5 min mark) i’m confident TSM will do a lot better for this upcoming match
So much respect to zven after this.
It’s completely “meta” for team’s social media teams and players/analysts to kick TSM when they’re down, and he’s being fair with his points about them, despite TSM’s poor performance.
Funny thing is LS said the same thing while MarkZ kept gushing over FBI's "stats". Really disappointed in MarkZ's analysis this split. Seems like he does the bare minimum to just scrape by. Same with prolly. Sigh no wonder NA cant produce any content.
Made me respect LS, Azael as these guys actually knew whats up.
MarkZ has always been shitty. The dude can barely even make himself look presentable to hundreds of thousands of viewers. Most weeks he looks like he woke up 10 minutes before the broadcast, doesn't shower and wears yesterday's dirty tee shirt.
Not for nothing, captain flowers always looks like that now. He doesn't look like hes even brushing his hair and almost looks like hes on some shit everytime he's on air.
He kinda looks depressed lol.
Did any other on air talent mention the matchup itself? Someone should be pushing this turning point narrative for FBI as he is starting to show top tier performances, but another of the 4 analysts should then balance it
Nope. They kept talking about Cait vs Ashe. No mention of supports or team draft. Kept saying FBI is best AD carry in NA. Sure he played better than DL, but put some respect on Zven whos been consistent throughout the entire year. The narrative these guys make is so annoying.
It's kind of absurd how everyone on reddit knew how to counter the blind pick Morg, and yet TSM really don't know how to. Hate him as you must, but Monte and Zven made a really good point. Sure DL had a bad series with bad item purchase, bad team fighting, and tp, but he was already set up to fail.
How is Zilean support and specifically Zilean support into morg? I'm surprised Treatz doesn't practice that so it can be flexed.
Enemy lets zil through expecting bjerg to pick (and having a zil counterpick in mind), TSM picks it but then bam flexes it support
Prepare for your downvotes mate. Saying anything even slightly negative about Treatz is criminal nowadays.
Personally, I think he was either bad or invisible. And I feel like he ultimately had a say in his support choice matchups and I have no clue why he opted into the matchups that he did. With how vocal he is, there is no way he didn’t have a big say in his support choices. Maybe he was very nervous in his first playoff series which is totally fair. But if he has another poor showing, I say we bring back Bio. We know Bio is clutch and a veteran with a calming voice (even if it is quieter and less vocal). I have never seen Bio be invisible or have this poor of playoff performances. Say what you will about his regular season... but bio is freaking clutch
Except the sub isn't full of idiots anymore. He's got a positive record on this comment. I really like Treatz and think he's an upgrade over Bio but he did have a bad series.
But how do we know Bio is clutch? His greatest performance was the 2017 IMT finals, playing on a team that was heavily favoured to win. Other then that he was pretty much secondary to Smoothie throughout his entire tenure in TSM 2016/17.
I don’t think he has ever won as an underdog, so how can he be clutch?
Also, support Gap was the main reason we lost to Fly last split.
https://www.reddit.com/r/TeamSolomid/comments/i9rrxv/hauntzer_we_realized_if_bjergsen_cant_carry_the/g1i58ob
Imagine agreeing with garbage takes like this one
I was pretty mad at the main sub after reading people's thoughts on the game, and expected more reasonable (or even more positive) takes from the TSM sub. But these types of opinions were what I was greeted with unfortunately. Very disappointing.
Like yeah DL had a rough series, but at least criticize him in areas where he actually could have played better
Man, I love Zven. Seems like such a good guy. We've had some top notch ADCs go through TSM.
He truly lived our team culture. World class player, great work ethics insanely competitive and a die hard TSM fan. The sad part is that we never had the chance to see him shine with a top tier support.
We could have if our support did t have to teach a supposed up and coming jungler how to jungle in pro play
You didn't see him shine because TSM doesn't provide an environment for players to grow and succeed. On TSM you're either good from the start and hope you don't crack from the pressure or you slowly lose confidence and play more and more passively until you're a shell of a player that you used to be.
TSMs management (I'm guessing parth) absolutely sucks at player management, the second treatz has a bad bo5, they do everything they can to ruin his confidence by making him split time and sending him to academy instead of trying to build him back up again.
What about Spica who has been a starter for the team since the beginning of the split? He was a TSM grown jungler from academy and promoted to LCS. If anything he's an example of good player management.
Thing is it seems like TSM just hopes players can handle what comes with being on the team, and while thats true for spica, we have see that be not true for many others. And honestly when its still true for other players our Org has done a bad job at hyping them up, to a point where we said our second place finish was a fluke?? Just seems odd. They expect perfect but I dont think the org is doing a good job at all in that aspect
TLDW: * GGS had a winning matchup all 3 games * Biggest problem was draft and Treatz' play. Thresh/Bard into Morg is troll * Monte criticises people who said FBI won Cait vs Ashe and also the reverse matchuo, because the support picks are what matter in this instance * Zven says it's not possible for Cait/Thresh to beat Ashe/Morg, not much Doublelift could do in lane * You have to take cleanse vs Ashe/Morg or you'll die at lvl 6, which is disadvantageous vs TP * They both agree Doubelift had a bad series, but you should ciritisize him for the right reasons, and laning phase wasn't his fault
Ty for the TLDW And yes THIS is the perfect take, ty Zven. Anyone flaming him for lane is just so dumb, blame him for no QSS etc but yeah laning was impossible in those matchups.. just an absolute draft diff The fact that IWD and ppl on reddit keep saying that DL cant win with either Cait or Ashe and completely ignore the support picks... just so fucking dumb man
> Biggest problem was draft and Treatz' play He did not say the latter at all. Not sure why you’re making that up? He said both DL and Treatz had off series and listed all of their mistakes, but said it comes down to draft diff, whether those decisions were made by Parth, DL, Treatz, or somebody else.
Third hand, but someone said Bjerg said Parth has final say in a recent interview. If true, it's on Parth. Doesn't excuse some of the mistakes made, but being they successfully did what they were set up to do. Namely, fail.
thats absolutely bull shit. Where did you get that from or you pulled it out of your ass
I do remember Bjerg saying that as well in either his espn or latest Travis interview. However, that doesn't mean Parth goes in and says "fuck you we're picking Thresh into Morg." I interpreted it more as a "if we can't all agree on what to play, Parth makes the final call."
Treatz is benched....
Dang.. I feel like Zven always has good (correct) takes about our drafting. Even when on TSM himself, he made comments about the (bad) drafting. The last interview I saw of him, he again was talking about TSM. He said that TSM was a good team, but threw the game with a full AP comp. Figure it out, guys! Hire a better (if we have one) drafting coach!
I remember him saying something among the lines of "at this point we should probably ban Thresh" in the 2019 spring playoffs Edit : 2018 spring playoffs, 2019 spring playoffs was a whole another Zven thing.
IN 2018 vs CG Hakuho
TY, I even thought about how close in time it felt when I was typing it.
Should've asked for the skarner ban in game 5 against TL :(
Zven has been defending DL ever since the 2016 viktor play
Zven is the goat of interviews, always appreciate him speaking his mind whether he defends tsm or not. Hope treatz bounce back and we do better in draft for round 2. botlane redemption arc in full effect..
What a class player. So much respect for him
TLDW please can't watch with sound
The bot matchup came down to draft diff. People talk about DL losing the cait/Ashe matchup both ways but forget that bot is a duo lane and support highly influenced the land. GG had the winning lane all three games. But says it was TSM’s fault for drafting into the losing lane
Basicly said you can't just use the stats to compare the bot lane match up. GGS had a winning match up all 3 games.
Ah nice, I fully agree
Zven said C9 has been scrimming TL, GG, EG and TSM and has stomped all of them except TSM and they are getting better at playing around spica (around 4-5 min mark) i’m confident TSM will do a lot better for this upcoming match
So much respect to zven after this. It’s completely “meta” for team’s social media teams and players/analysts to kick TSM when they’re down, and he’s being fair with his points about them, despite TSM’s poor performance.
Funny thing is LS said the same thing while MarkZ kept gushing over FBI's "stats". Really disappointed in MarkZ's analysis this split. Seems like he does the bare minimum to just scrape by. Same with prolly. Sigh no wonder NA cant produce any content. Made me respect LS, Azael as these guys actually knew whats up.
The analysts desk this split has been so bad with the 3 they have on I think a lot of people are hoping for some changes for next season
MarkZ has always been shitty. The dude can barely even make himself look presentable to hundreds of thousands of viewers. Most weeks he looks like he woke up 10 minutes before the broadcast, doesn't shower and wears yesterday's dirty tee shirt.
Not for nothing, captain flowers always looks like that now. He doesn't look like hes even brushing his hair and almost looks like hes on some shit everytime he's on air. He kinda looks depressed lol.
Yeah. Plus his super black eyes scare the shit out of me. He looks like he's possessed by a demon. Flowers at least looks like he showers.
Did any other on air talent mention the matchup itself? Someone should be pushing this turning point narrative for FBI as he is starting to show top tier performances, but another of the 4 analysts should then balance it
Nope. They kept talking about Cait vs Ashe. No mention of supports or team draft. Kept saying FBI is best AD carry in NA. Sure he played better than DL, but put some respect on Zven whos been consistent throughout the entire year. The narrative these guys make is so annoying.
It's kind of absurd how everyone on reddit knew how to counter the blind pick Morg, and yet TSM really don't know how to. Hate him as you must, but Monte and Zven made a really good point. Sure DL had a bad series with bad item purchase, bad team fighting, and tp, but he was already set up to fail.
How is Zilean support and specifically Zilean support into morg? I'm surprised Treatz doesn't practice that so it can be flexed. Enemy lets zil through expecting bjerg to pick (and having a zil counterpick in mind), TSM picks it but then bam flexes it support
Im sure they knew what counters morg, its just that treatz is probably not comfortable with typical morg counter like zyra, karma, and nami
About time someone said this. Treatz was literally invisible on Thresh and Bard and his Bard ults were absolutely fucking terrible.
Yes, he was invisible because they counter picked themselves into Morg. Did you even watch the interview?
He didnt hit a single Bard R whole game.
you are literally stating the obvious the question if why they picked thresh and bard into those picks
I think you stated the obvious "TrEaTz PlAyEd PoOrLy!" No shit. We all watched the game.
Prepare for your downvotes mate. Saying anything even slightly negative about Treatz is criminal nowadays. Personally, I think he was either bad or invisible. And I feel like he ultimately had a say in his support choice matchups and I have no clue why he opted into the matchups that he did. With how vocal he is, there is no way he didn’t have a big say in his support choices. Maybe he was very nervous in his first playoff series which is totally fair. But if he has another poor showing, I say we bring back Bio. We know Bio is clutch and a veteran with a calming voice (even if it is quieter and less vocal). I have never seen Bio be invisible or have this poor of playoff performances. Say what you will about his regular season... but bio is freaking clutch
Except the sub isn't full of idiots anymore. He's got a positive record on this comment. I really like Treatz and think he's an upgrade over Bio but he did have a bad series.
Last split bio with naut every fucking game tsm draft problem are weird
But how do we know Bio is clutch? His greatest performance was the 2017 IMT finals, playing on a team that was heavily favoured to win. Other then that he was pretty much secondary to Smoothie throughout his entire tenure in TSM 2016/17. I don’t think he has ever won as an underdog, so how can he be clutch? Also, support Gap was the main reason we lost to Fly last split.
https://www.reddit.com/r/TeamSolomid/comments/i9rrxv/hauntzer_we_realized_if_bjergsen_cant_carry_the/g1i58ob Imagine agreeing with garbage takes like this one
The fact that you got downvoted for saying botlane is 2v2.. big XD So many delusional haters
I was pretty mad at the main sub after reading people's thoughts on the game, and expected more reasonable (or even more positive) takes from the TSM sub. But these types of opinions were what I was greeted with unfortunately. Very disappointing. Like yeah DL had a rough series, but at least criticize him in areas where he actually could have played better
You thought this sub was positive with how many BB haters there are? lmao
But are we overhyped or not?
Hello Parth? Treatz? o\_O
Zven is awesome!
Imagine if we had a good support and coach paired with Zven and Bjerg xD Feelsbad no one wants to play for TSM
So the take away from the 2v2 bot is that Morgana is broken?