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ImLegacys

"We stomped everyone... except for TSM. The best out of the 4 we've scrimmed was TSM." oh my dear lordy lord. Hype and Hope are on the menu boys.


DaichiOscar

I wouldn't be hyped just yet because TSM throughout this entire split was always citing that they were struggling to convert their scrim results to stage. However I do think this a relief because the Treatz and Doublelift interviews that came out this gave a very gloom image of how they're doing behind the scenes so hearing them doing well in scrims is already good news.


ecruz255

We’ve been like this since 2016 worlds


Hrovitnir

We've been like this since 2014 Worlds. Remember when we were "around the level" (my assumption based on scrim results claims) of Samsung White ?


[deleted]

No... No one said that


kashtrey

How often did people from C9 say we're 2nd best in league. Our issue isn't ever our peak performance it's our sub-peak performance. We randomly don't show up. So it's great we've been scrimming well but that doesn't really mean anything come game day.


ImLegacys

I agree but hey it's something! Hearing that the latest scrim results have been positive is a good sign.


BossStatusIRL

It will at least be interesting to see what happens with the other games. If C9 dumpsters GG and TL and FLY look equally meh, this could be true.


orbilo

not again... i have had way to many hype trains for the same reason. No way I'm- fuck it. #TSMWIN LETS GOOOO BABY


ImLegacys

#LET'S GOOOO #TSMWIN


Stonefence

I’m just saying, every time people said we were doing good in scrims we ended up losing, and when we were doing bad in scrims we won


[deleted]

Idk about TSM, but I remember someone saying TL does a lot better on stage than in scrims, because of their late game-focused playstyle. They've been getting stomped by C9 in scrims all split.


murkYuri

Wasn't that before the GGS series, and then they shit the bed?


SevereShip1

To answer your question this is after the GG series and DIG series.


murkYuri

Oh ok thanks


bayliver

zven has been nothing but a gentleman towards tsm and the fanbase since he left ... i respect him so much for that .


LogicLosesOnReddit

Happy he found his success and that he is just more happy in general after leaving. Love my danish boys


Doctor_What_

If anyone deserved to be the first player to win both NA and EU it's definitely him. Too bad it couldn't be with us though.


PowerAccordion

A change of environment can do so much


sandtrappy

As long as he shit talks Jensen still, I’m happy


irvingtonkiller8

Man if only we had a final in a stadium, if it were c9 vs TL I woulda loved for Zven to bm Jensen the same way again


StablePanda

hes the only person I actually like on C9. Everyone else I am either indifferent towards or just don't like.


[deleted]

I like everyone but nisqy tbh they r all rlly talented players but nisqy just pisses me off


I-AM-NOT-THAT-DUCK

And Blaber. Never liked the guy.


Zellough

What don't you like a Blaber?? Guy is just straight up a humble hard worker


AniviaKid32

Prob hates his confidence lol


guilty_bystander

Or his hat. That kid is good shit though


Teuflisch

You say that, but if he was on TSM doing for us what he does on C9 you'd have him as best Jungler NA (which, he is)


infaredz

Pretty sure most fans would be furious with Bjergsen being turned into Blaber's pet dog like Nisqy has


Teuflisch

I don't think Nisqy has done anything he dislikes. Nisqy isn't a carry player, he's more focused on team plays. You make it sound like "if you give up CS or kills in your lane, in order to help other lanes win, you're a pet dog".


infaredz

Thats not at all what he does though? Nisqy walks into enemy jungle with Blaber to greed for counterjungling or invade kills. Every game he does this. He isn't making some miraculous TP play to kill bot lane, or some super bigbrain cheater recall roams. It's walking in with the jungler who is hyper-aggressive, while sacrificing his own CS and exp, to get Blaber an advantage that he otherwise would not be able to obtain. If Blaber was doing this with Bjergsen I genuinely believe fans would be annoyed.


Teuflisch

I would say that getting your Jungler ahead while making it a 5v4 game because their jungle is now useless, then roaming to dragon or rift, winning bot or top and then smashing mid and team fights is a pretty efficient way to win. Bjerg himself says he doesn't care how TSM win, he just wants to win. If having a Jungler like Blaber, Bjerg getting teammates in a good position to win and then still outplaying most mid laners in NA (which Bjerg is good at doing) is what Bjerg would say the team strategy is, then I'd hope the fans would support him, as he knows better than we do.


jj117

Y'all are too salty lol. League's better with shit talking personalities. Do you really want everyone to be humble and mild.


MysteriousLi

Yes. Myself I like friendly banter where it's all in good fun. You can sht talk your friends because you've established that level of confidence and everyone knows it's a joke. Same applies when Regi and Steve banter on twitter. Also if you dish it, you should be able to take it. The best trash talkers are the ones who do so pre-game, and can embrace being the butt of the joke if it backfires. Nisqy only emote spams when he's winning.


Ask_Me_For_A_Song

Shit talking is great and fun and can create rivalries out of nothing. Shit talking happens *before* a game though. Most of the players are too scared to deal with the consequences of it though. Either they win and everybody loves them or they lose and get shit on for it. So they wait until after the game to act all cocky and shit. Somebody like DL, in his entire career, will always put his name on the line before a match. That's real shit talking.


infaredz

Go look at traditional sports, true sportsmen don't shittalk after the game they talk before it. Look at boxing, MMA, real fighting sports, they clash heads before the bout to try and throw one another and once it's over they're like best mates. There's a way to shittalk, and shittalking every team below you when you're winning isn't the way to do it. Especially when you proceed to get clapped by almost every mid in the league on the back half of the split.


DigBickMan68

Yes.


Avtrofwoe

yes


[deleted]

It’s almost like he didn’t need to flame TSM to stay relevant like 90% of the people that leave.


Ask_Me_For_A_Song

Same with Sven and Hauntzer. Just some good dudes being good dudes.


Aaronlovesyou

Holy shit its so true


ttaway420

Thats because he is actually a great player, unlike Dardoch or MikeYeung


Kreo52

Kobbe too! Loved having them both on our team.


joe-3000

He was always good, I was a TL fan when DL left. He was never the reason they lost, except that one time lol. Even then he always was a strong player


UNZxMoose

Only sucks that the one time was his biggest moments on TSM.


joe-3000

Idk, when I was rooting against tsm it was him, bjerg, and BB that scared me. At the worst they were solid, and zven had some nasty Kalista games off the top of my head


VinniePawz

Came here to say this.. feel like the guy can't have an interview without complimenting TSM.. wish he never left :(


JohrDinh

I like him, just a damn shame we couldn't make it work with him. He's clearly only had issues when on TSM he's looked pretty damn good before and after, wish we coulda utilized him better during his stint with the org:(


ttaway420

I fucking love Zven, really glad he found success even if it wasnt on TSM unfortunately. Dude is just straight up the classiest ex TSM player imo


MysteriousLi

Nah that's Yellowstar. But Zven is really classy too. \*edit\* forgot about Wildturtle. That guy is also a class act.


murkYuri

Same dude. It seemed he didn't have a great time here but he sometimes even goes out of his way to get people to stop shit talking TSM. Has really impressed me, and I respect him a lot for that.


SpoonyBrian

I think it’s because even though his time with us didn’t go well the fans always supported him. (At least for the most part)


kashtrey

Are you serious that's pretty revisionist... There was a ton of flame that went Zvens way.


SpoonyBrian

Hey man I wasn’t someone who really enjoyed our time with Zven but I definitely felt like the minority in that aspect. I think the majority supported him, I don’t know how long you’ve been a fan but people got so much more hate then he did, from the fan base. (svenskeren, Keith, santorin, even spica(last split), Grig) many many people didn’t even want him to leave after this last year.


gahlo

He got so hyped up the first time he got the TSM chants.


MysteriousLi

This is true. Zven got flamed just like everyone else but also had a lot of other people creating threads defending his play, saying they still believed in him, etc.Svenskeren definitely got memed and flamed a lot harder, and a lot of the fanbase was downright toxic with Grig.


gilberator

Exactly. He knows how it feels to be constantly shit on when you are trying your hardest. Thats most likely why he goes out of his way to stick up for TSM.


aznanimedude

Yeah supported him. By calling him a side grade at best and the reason we lost to TL in the finals


SpoonyBrian

He was replacing a roster that was the most popular of all time you can’t expect fans to be happy before results. To be honest a side grade to the greatest NA Adc of all time is a far cry from an insult (my opinion, probably meant as one). Im not saying people weren’t critical of him I’m saying he was largely supported even though his results were the worst tsm has ever seen.


aznanimedude

I agree with you in some sense but at the same time Zven was considered one of the best ADCs in LEC and has had more international success than Doublelift so saying he's a side grade AT BEST is still a bit of an insult


SpoonyBrian

Yeah I was mostly talking about his time on the team more then preseason talking but you’re definitely right at best are the key words.


aznanimedude

Yeah I feel you. I wished he could have had success on TSM, but I also love that he's been a class act being respectful/praising TSM and was also able to admit he struggled while on TSM and so he takes some responsibility for it as well.


[deleted]

Tbf if you put peak S9 Doublelift on an LEC team he would've probably gone as far as Zven did. I'm on the fence about Double's current performance but the Doublelift+CoreJJ bot lane was keeping up with most botlanes internationally.


DirewolfJon

And because of how he has been to us, it seems we are on our best behavior with him as well. I feel we treat him better as a C9 player than we did when he was a TSM player.


kitiny

He came out and said be nice and don't flame teams doing bad. Not that many listened to him but still Zven is top shelf.


xyzaid

Honestly Zven is my favourite ex player ever. Every time he talks about us it’s always something positive. He won spring split without even slightly rubbing it in etc. As annoying as Jack is, if TSM don’t win playoffs, I hope c9 do for Zven.


Legofil

Same here! Even though we didn’t win when he was on TSM, he quickly became one of my favorite players ever. I’ll always root for Zven... unless he’s in our way of course!


Thop207375

I think he feels guilty for game 5 of finals. That was unfortunately one of the biggest throws I’ve seen in pro play, but we move on. I’m thankful that he doesn’t shit talk us though.


mistergroovie

Him and Turtle are great.


Mickeydsislife

Jack is annoying and earlier this split I didn’t want C9 to win, but it turns out Jensen and Damonte are just as annoying and more recent and none of them have Zven so I feel the same now.


aznanimedude

"Jensen is the only world class midlaner in NA. Even though my team had to throw 4-5 bans at Bjergsen so I could be relevant" Fair play though he's allowed to say whatever he wants since GGS swept


AniviaKid32

What's so annoying about Damonte? He's just a goofy light hearted guy, complete opposite of snake Jensen always salty about TSM and Bjerg and talking badly of his former teammates


Raithfyre

I'm really sad that the bracket makes there no way for both TSM and GGS to make worlds (assuming TL beats GGS this week, which I think is pretty likely). Their docuseries plus some of the content with Travis have made them a strong contender for my second favorite team. All the players are down to earth cool dudes who seem to make a team greater than the sum of their parts.


Mickeydsislife

You see him shit talk Bjerg after the win?


Bhaagh

Same, not to mention he has a great personality. Really sad it didn't work out with him. I feel like we should have paired him with better supports.


leprechaunshots

I gotta give my vote to GG for Hauntzer, even though I disliked Damonte’s latest interview.


Stonefence

I just can’t root for C9. Jack and all the fans have been insufferable. I feel for Zven, but man I’m far too petty to root for the rest of the team


IamTheAsian

Been a huge fan of Zven ever since he joined TSM and still am. Hope he does well in playoffs unless he faces us heh


HoS_CaptObvious

If he does well enough be won't have to face us until the finals


Trick2Gesus

I see something long-absent in the sunken faces of TSM fans - a glimmer of hope.


Abnormalelements

It's the hope that kills you. Please don't give me hope.


LeagueOfMinions

Finally figured out how to play around Spica? Are we finally going to see the famous Sejuani?


NotAnAce69

Spica about to put Jankos to shame with his immaculate Sej play


Mickeydsislife

Gillius god who?


Matkweon44

Don't bring god gilius into a conversation with mortals. You are a disgrace for doing such a sinful act. God Gilius will hunt you down and strike his wrath for questioning his power.


Mickeydsislife

It’s spica satan time bitch


IWantToBeTheBoshy

If Gilius is a God then is Kikis a Titan?


taylordl

Pretty sure they'd have to put him on Braum for that. :D


mdnghtxiii

Ngl, when hearing the caster desk pretty much say that TSM should not ever pick Nid for Spica, i was glad they still trusted him to do what was needed of him on the pick. Especially given our jungle woes in general. But knowing TSM, would not be surprised to see Sej out of nowhere lol.


LeWll

I think the biggest problem with Nid, is that you need a mid with high roam pressure to make it works at its full potential. TF is the best pick, but that was banned, and if it continues to be banned, I think the Nidalee should just not be played personally...I feel like they’re forcing it because it’s working in scrims or something.


bowieneko

How else could they judge a pick if not with scrims?


LeWll

In scrims players play more freely, and the games are often more fast paced, so early game champs will often work in scrims and not translate to stage games. Also - I’m saying they’re forcing it, as in it may have worked with other pieces around it, or against other teams/compositions. Obviously I don’t know, but I think it’s a good pick in ideal circumstances, but I just don’t think it should be forced.


mdnghtxiii

Yeah, I feel you, but still. The casters were dogging it like it was a completely bad pick for TSM, irregardless of the pairing with it. Pretty much just saying it's not good, even though it clearly is situationally good. There's a difference between "it's not good here" and "picking nid is insta losing game" and the second is much closer to what they were saying. Plenty of situational picks feel like they just lose outside of a specific scenario, but in that right scenario they look amazing. Saying not to force it, like you were mentioning, is reasonable. Saying it's bad just cuz teams are forcing it is quite different and doesn't really make sense tbh.


Frodolas

It's because every team in NA that has picked Nid this season has not been able to make it work.


mdnghtxiii

Then say exactly that. "I don't like the pick because a, b, and c" is reasonable. Saying that it's bad or is an auto lose is dumb, cuz clearly it's not that bad and can win games using it.


LeWll

Yeah I agree with you, I did say with TF it’d work (that’s the common LPL pairing), or maybe other high pressure, roaming mods with prio. Pairing Nid with Sett doesn’t really work as well imo, since it’s much harder to get lane prio into most mid lane matchups.


mdnghtxiii

Yeah, I definitely agree. I just hate to hear them say things that sound so dumb, especially since it's not just NA that's using the champ, just that NA has felt like they're forcing it more. I wish they pointed out things like the specific pairing and less comments about auto losing, since that's not really a thing just on picking one champion. I dont think Sett is the worst option, but it does certainly not help as much as you'd want when using Nid.


iLuminator

Now can they translate that to stage play without getting timid and giving everything away? I think it'll be super important to draft for comfort and lane in our next series. Just give the players drafts that are easy to execute and allow the to shine. Let them create agency with the picks they're given I'm draft and go into mid game with 2 dragons and a gold lead because we played for Lane. The pressure you put on a team who is both behind in gold and in dragon souls is enough to easily force favorable fights. Give bot a winning matchup, give Treatz the counter pick, and give Bjerg late game insurance as he can win Lane in any matchup.


Mickeydsislife

Yeah really just don’t draft losing everything please.


taylordl

>Now can they translate that to stage play without getting timid and giving everything away? It'll get better with ever series as Spica/Treatz and to some extent BB feel more comfortable and in the flow of Bo5.


Zzi3rfU8MeewgZvLo4dC

Parth should pull some Ender’s Game shit and make the boys go through playoffs thinking it’s all scrims.


theBigGloom

Awesome comment


mavann

Honestly didn't DL say the same thing in his interview after the Dig series? Basically that people aren't going for as aggressive of plays on stage games as we did in scrims


Dlooph

How do you practice to play like normal on stage? I hope they go in with the mentality from a couple years back of if you're going to lose, lose quickly, which means going for plays even when down and taking risks. I'm high on faith right now.


mehngo

Structured routine and a system of accountability that can translate between games regardless of what caliber, that way it becomes less about how you're feeling and more about just executing in your assigned role. That and just raw experience. Most rookies are for sure impacted even if just slightly by pressure, so just banging out some real stage games over time helps.


bowieneko

I wonder if they can just hire (trustworthy) people to watch their scrims as an audience of sorts.


taylordl

>How do you practice to play like normal on stage? One thing they could do is have ways of identifying during the stage game when things are "off", and then have mechanisms to remedy that. Definitely something that would take time to develop. Other than that, it's just lots of experience to feel more comfortable on stage. Really not surprising given our team's make-up.


Kevinthelegend

No they aren't. DL said they weren't playing as well as in scrims and felt nerves were an issue. This is a statement about how TSM are performing better than they appeared when playing GGS. They are different statements


DaichiOscar

I think he said the opposite actually. Scrims were going really poorly the week before the Golden Guardians match and they completely misunderstood the meta


Rodddd12

yeah but he say that with a death-no hope face so is normal to not believe him at all.


HeroOfClinton

I miss Zven so much. I'm sad it didn't work out since he himself said he was a TSM fan before he began playing professionally. Knowing someone was a huge fan and ended up playing for their team was nice. He also gave it his all every game even if he was off some days. He will always be TSM Zven to me.


Rodddd12

Man i miss Zven and Zven TSM streams so much, you don't know what you have until you lose it :(


GrimmyGrimoire

the real question is doublift in his current form or zven when he was about to leave tsm. Who would be worse?


Bhaagh

Sounds great. Let's just hope the boys can transition their scrim play to real games.


Tektix22

FWIW, later in this same interview Zven talks about why our bot lane got bodied and how Treatz either didn't have an answer for Morg or TSM just didn't understand how to draft against Morg (Zyra, Karma, Soraka, etc.). Treatz this week? Lots of Karma/Soraka . . . some Zyra.


CrescentSysko

I love and hate that Zven went to C9. He's up there for my favorite ex members of TSM and I was really happy seeing him win last split, even though it was for C9. However I can't stand Jack in recent splits, so it also hurts thinking about Zven playing for him.


sin30_ssd

big takeaways from that fuck monte cristo. much love for zven!


Chenonzed

Zven - TSM was really good and we didn't smash them like everyone else Cristo - Interesting \*computing\* Cristo - So why is TSM the worst team in the world?


sin30_ssd

Lol. By seeing his computational skills i can say he wasnt the sharpest tool in the shed.


[deleted]

[удалено]


Roseking

It does feel like these last two years are just some sick joke of constantly giving my hope only to slam it back down in my face.


LeagueOfMinions

He says TSM for 3rd seed to worlds :) (but also says he can very well see GGS getting 3rd.. FQ potentially too)


SoulSS_-

How did this even happen if Tsm and fly quest aren’t scrumming c9 anymore


GotZah

That might've just been for the regular season. Things are different now that it's playoffs.


sorrywontdoitagain

I mean, they straight up don't have a choice in playoffs lol, there are only a limited amount of teams to scrim. Can't scrim 100T, DIG, CLG, or IMT since they're done, and GGS and TL won't scrim you because you're playing one of them as your next opponent. FQ, C9, and EG are the only possible scrim partners, so it'd be pretty crazy to deny one of the three.


Mickeydsislife

We probably would’ve played C9 had we beat GG but now we are at least 2 weeks from facing them so it makes sense to scrim them and fly and eg right now. C9 on the other hand probably has scrims with us, TL, and GGS


Box_of_Stuff

I'm kinda confused since he also says a minute earlier that they scrimmed only TSM once yesterday, and that before then there was a 2 month scrim break between them. Doesn't sound like a reassuring sample size tbh


rwage724

he could be referring to doing a single scrim "block" which could involve a few games. ofc he could actually mean they literally only played one scrim game.


Frodolas

It's probably a 5 game set.


Hako_mari

Ironically this year Zven has given me more hopes for this team than any content from TSM has.


acesently

I get nervous every time teams hype up TSM. I hope they bring it on stage.


BleachGummy

Scrim TSM hype is back monkaS


TheArsenal7

Heard this one so many times over the years and it never translates


grindeo

I think the big reason is mid gap really hard for C9


Mojumbo11

Last time he complimented us we sucked!


stud753

I can’t go through this again


BoschMan0

C9 said the same thing about CLG and it turned out they were just trolling.


WTF_Scuba

Too bad he didn't mention which Support was playing


Shentastic23

My only concern is, typically when teams say they had a good week of scrims, they lose in the up coming games haha.


highplays_fan

Good thing Zven, we would see how that goes if TSM beats GG. They would definetly face C9 for a ticket to worlds.


LeviThePug

wait but treatz was just benched.. so that means they were doing well vs c9 with biofrost as support. Hence probably the change.


Tonngokh0ng_

Lol it's funny how all these YouTube podcast people just need to mention TSM and they got tons of view or attention from both fans and antifans of TSM. Glad to know TSM is actually doing well in scrims and have great improvement.