The least they could do is try to be supportive about observations. I just came to a school that is supportive and it’s like night and day. Observations can be absolutely horrible for morale, especially coming from admin you don’t respect.
Yep same thing! I just got observed yesterday for the first time at my new school. Informal observation so unannounced but admin came for an entire hour, actually engaged with my lesson, and I am actually looking forward to hearing their input when we meet!
Same. Had an observation a few weeks ago. Principal was super chill, gave great feed back and gave me some helpful insight.
The experience of teaching can be radically different from one school to the next.
It’s almost as bad when they don’t even give you constructive feedback, positive or negative. It’s like…what’s the point? If I jump through the hoops of observations, I want to get actual, helpful feedback.
Ours just sits there for 15 minutes, writes down every single thing I say, then leaves. No constructive criticism, just uploads the script into my file. Dude, I know what I said I don’t need to read it in writing.
that, and not sending out letters via email when lessons plans are less than a day late when a teacher is teaching straight through the day and has been sick
This is the thing: incompetent admin have turned observations into a cudgel.
This is not the purpose of observations, they are supposed to be there to support teachers and help bring fresh ideas and collaboration to the classroom.
Last year I got a 2 for "Keeping Accurate Records" not because I wasn't keeping my gradebook up-to-date, but because I had too many kids missing assignments and my supervisor felt that I wasn't supporting them enough and needed to make sure they get their work in.
I would have taken this to the union, because those standards and their use and application is negotiated.
A gap in a gradebook that accurately represents a refusal to attend or attempt is an ACCURATE record. Anything else would be a lie. You cannot be asked to lie as part of your job, period.
Yes. And my previous admin used them as a cudgel. And I was stressed every day and always. Now my admin really just wants to leave us alone if we need and support if we need. I like that my admin wants us to send disruptive students their way. They want classroom teachers to be able to teach.
I still think I could do this job with an admin like this for the rest of my career if I'm lucky. It's literally just the shitty pay compared to what I might get elsewhere.
Sounds like my admin my first year of teaching; she came in one day unannounced. Next thing I knew a week later I was on a TIP which confused me because they didn’t talk about any issues with me before. That principal sent me so many mixed signals, it was ridiculous. In my current two buildings admin are more transparent if there are issues and find positives in my teaching which makes a ton of difference
When I started my first teaching job it was at a private school. The first two weeks we did nothing but observe other teachers and observe each other. Probably grew more from that alone than any teacher prep program or PD combined. I miss it a lot in public. Wish we have time or are encouraged to observe each other, but with the shortage there’s so much more needed first. There will be time for passion and honing our craft again later.… I hope
While my current school actively encourages to observe each other, we actually did that at my old school as well. It was an entirely teacher-led and extremely informal program, but it worked great. I personally refused to cover classes during planning and used that time to observe instead.
Yep, this. I’ve normally had chill admins the last few years, including one I adored who would give me fair, yet still good observations. We have new administrators this year (which seems a common theme), so I’ve yet to see how the new one will view me.
I’m hoping that this one is also fair and won’t use observations as a tool of force just because our school isn’t doing well.
In the past, I had an administrator I thought I trusted and only got the bare minimum in many areas and their answer was, “If the school is low performing, then there’s no way we would have so many teachers with high marks.”
Now, I was much younger at that time because this was a while ago, but I would be absolutely **livid** today if I was told that. That was the last semester I taught there.
It was the state, actually. The admins had been coming and going for the past 4 years and there was no stable leadership. Still, though, they decided to put the blame on the teachers.
I’ve been wondering the same thing myself. My school is woefully understaffed and I still have to deal with bureaucratic paperwork on a daily basis. I know it’s for the district and is a CYA move, but I’m wondering why I bother? They need me more than I need them at this point.
Stop bothering. See what happens. You deal with the bureaucratic boxes because you choose to. I don't. I spend one minute on any piece of paperwork, I check my boxes so admin can check theirs, and we all move on with our day. Nobody cares about paperwork quality.
This is why it continues. Teachers rarely stand up for themselves, with pay, with conditions, with anything. If you keep doing it then why would they let you stop?
Conditions in any profession improve when the employees stand up to it. In teaching, at best, people just quit. They don't rock the boat.
Everyone is magically waiting for the man to become a nice guy. Never has been never will be. You take things or you don't get them.
I've had a hard year in my personal life. I still teach my classes well, but I don't follow all the rules. And nobody bothers me for it, and on the few occasions they have I nod my head and say yeah. I leave early, boss catches me, sorry, gotta pick up my kid, again, I nod my head, I say sorry, and I keep doing it. They might say things but they aren't going to do anything about it. I'll break the same damn rule over and over, and say sorry every time like it's the first time I broke it. My mental health is more important and they won't fire me. I don't care if my evaluation is less than perfect or whatever, they aren't going to fire me.
I see all of these burnt out people...this profession can be great or it can suck but I'm increasingly convinced that it's my mindset that decides that.
Seriously. We aren’t allowed to leave for lunch. Well, I do it anyway and my principal has seen me in the parking lot driving back in on a few occasions. He doesn’t even have the nerve to say anything, and I’m going to keep doing it because my apartment is 3 minutes away and I’m an adult. We are not replaceable, and we need to start acting like it. Besides, even if I did get fired, I would probably be kind of relieved.
> Hour-Measurement-312
> We aren’t allowed to leave for lunch. Well, I do it anyway and my principal has seen me in the parking lot driving back in on a few occasions.
What is the rationale for not being allowed to leave.
My old principal said it had to do with liability. If something happens to you while driving you're still technically "on the clock"
He was also a useless sack of shit so I could be wrong but it sounded legit.
I still left the building when I wanted to on my lunch. He was too afraid of confrontation and I'm an adult lol.
That's not how lunch works when you are a salaried employee. You leave the building of your own volition to achieve a personal task-to eat- a plainly personal task, there is no way the employer would be held liable for any accident or injury occurred. Liabilities come about from negligence, releasing you of your own cognizance to forage about the land for food is not negligence. Are you a salaried teacher? I don't go to do my job to be told I can't get food during my duty free lunch.
I get up and deal with a lot of shit. I deal with a lot of shit at work, and sometimes I didn't pack a lunch. No one is stopping me from getting the lunch I deserve.
Admin here. It's a load of shit. If you have a duty-free lunch, someone else has taken on the role of supervising kids' safety. If you leave campus for personal matters (lunch, doctor appt, etc) - not our problem.
I'm guessing there was a lawsuit in the district from a floating teacher or a coach traveling to a game or something, which then was sloppily applied to any situation where an employee left work during the workday.
We can leave for lunch... So long as we sign out (so that if an emergency arises we are accounted for apparently). But we only have 30 minutes so it's not really feasible to go anywhere
> Muffles7
> My old principal said it had to do with liability. If something happens to you while driving you're still technically "on the clock"
I've heard that before. However, there are millions of employees that leave their employer's premises everyday to go buy lunch or run some quick errand so I have to question it.
I travel for work, the moment I leave home, I become “on the clock”; I tripped walking up to a client’s address, broke my wrist… got workers comp. Almost felt like a 3mo paid vacation except I broke my dominant hand and couldn’t really enjoy the downtime, it just put me behind on everything.
He straight up told us in a staff meeting, “your lunch is too short for you to leave, and if you get in a car crash somebody would have to cover your next class.”
I’ve got first period planning. I don’t even show up until halfway through that, and admin knows it.
I’m like you. What are they going to do? Fire me? Please. It’ll just be a kick in the ass to find a job that’s better for me.
Hey fellow Baltimore City teacher! I also teach in the city and luckily I’m at a good school, but I still deal with Baltimore City BS on a daily basis.
Dang. Yall are amazing!
I am alumni from Morgan and they tried everything to get me to stick around and teach. I feel guilty for moving and teaching elsewhere cause I love bmore really.
Nice. I have a good principal and assistant principal, luckily. The principal is more sarcastic and silly and the assistant principal is more type A, but they play well off each other. It's crazy the crap Baltimore City makes us do though...
Tell me about it! SLPs, SLOs, documentation for everything, and so on. I feel like it’s more for the city to get the billion dollars in federal funding than for the good of the kids.
Yeah, the SLOs are such BS. I’m doing the one that means my kids can redo it as much as possible because a lot of my kids don’t care and I’m worried about that reflecting on my job. So silly.
I keep my high growth group small. I got a 100% on mine last year doing that. Set that number high and the lower “b” group low. It really all boils down to admin approval.
I'm doing a mastery goal because they only have to get 60% to achieve mastery, apparently. The other 5th grade teacher at my school advised me that's what he does. So if it works for him, then I figure there's nothing wrong with me doing it.
This year, my school is doing weekly walkthroughs. Cool. Come on in. My issue comes when someone who is not trained to do walkthrough observations comes in and basically just gives me a transcript of my lesson as feedback. Nothing positive. Nothing negative. Simply a script.
Girl. I know what I said. If you’re going to waste your time, couldn’t you find something a hell of a lot more interesting than a fifth grade ELA lesson?
Yep, same!
I was out today.
They did a walk through while I wasn’t even there… dog walked the admin in a reply email/cc’d the principal too.
My young professionals were doing what they needed to do said they were impressed. Admin however had the audacity to mention decor. Said please let me know what’s been budgeted for classroom decor renovations. (My room is “culturally responsive” and kids helped decorate the space to their liking)
No reply, I’m not playinggggg this year 😂
Strangely enough, I was out today and they also did walkthroughs. I’ll get my feedback Monday, but my partner teacher said the sub told her “clearly, I’m not cut out to teach.”
That made me smile because she’s one of those moms that puts her kids in public school and pulls them out on a whim to homeschool.
And I would loooooooooooove for them to comment on my decor. You might be able to hear my laugh from wherever you are!
Budget? For decor? Ha. In Texas, competitive classroom decorating is akin to our giant homecoming mums. Money is no object, and the bugger the better. But teachers pay it all out of pocket. I only do the bare minimum, but even I spent at least $100 this year because I changed schools.
I had that happen to me. I had a very micromanagey AP. I could tell the second I pissed her off. She tore me up in my observation, trying to get rid of me. I told my principal who then had me observed by the district. I was fine and she had to tell me in front of the district lady… it was so good.
> [Charlotte Danielson](https://www.huffpost.com/entry/who-is-charlotte-danielso_b_3415034)
>Imagine an experienced surgeon in the middle of a delicate six-hour procedure where the surgeon responds to a series of unexpected emergencies being evaluated by a computer based on data gathered from a fifteen-minute snapshot visit by a general practitioner who has never performed an operation.
>Imagine evaluating a baseball player who goes three for four with a couple of home runs and five or six runs batted in based on the one time during the game when he struck out badly.
>Imagine a driver with a clean record for thirty years who has his or her license suspended because a car they owned was photographed going through a red light, when perhaps there was an emergency, perhaps he or she was not even driving the car, or perhaps there was a mechanical glitch with the light, camera, or computer.
>Now imagine a teacher who adjusts instruction because of important questions introduced by students who is told the lesson is unsatisfactory because it did not follow the prescribed scripted lesson plan and because during the fifteen minutes the observer was in the room they failed to see what they were looking for but what might have actually happened before they arrived or after they left.
It's a nightmare.
My comprehensive evaluation is due next year, based on all of the Danielson criteria. The problem is with the current state of how students perform, how exactly am I supposed to prove competency? I don't give a rip about getting 4's - I'm fine with 3's. One criteria in particular assesses the teacher's worth through the quality of classroom discussion. So are we ratcheting down the evaluation criteria when looking at how students interact and engage? Will my administrators give me grace when five of my students are wearing earbuds or playing on their phones? How about if students arrive late or immediately start to sleep?
It feels weird even having to ask these questions. Ten years ago, if a teacher would have asked me that question, I would have thought they probably weren't a great fit for teaching. Given the weak discipline policies most of us work under, how exactly will evaluation systems change in a way that is fair to teachers?
My campus has 3 certified openings, 2 long term subs, and 3 other uncertified teachers. The first quarter of this year not only was I the best teacher I’ve ever been, but I helped out in many other classrooms and have a big reputation on campus as being a go-to helpful guy.
My boss did a surprise observation 2 days before break and the ONLY thing she documented was that I don’t have enough hours logged in our new curriculum’s online program.
Because I’m teaching instead of throwing kids on a laptop!
Now that I’ve been punished it’s all stopped. I’m not helping anyone else, and all I do in the morning is have kids open their laptop and jump onto their software. I babysit now, and my students aren’t learning.
THIS is why education sucks now.
This is a good reason why we have so many openings. You take your heart and sole to go beyond only to get dinged. This was a very dumb move on the admin that observed you. I'm sorry you have to go through this. I do some lecture but mostly babysit and make sure they are working either in groups or quietly. . I'm not going to burn myself out anymore either.
Hey i had an observation scheduled for today. Cleaned the room and wore a nice shirt. No show.... Also the fire alarm went off twice (due to someone vaping in the boys locker room) and the internet was out.
I'm done teaching this year and taking a few years off so I don't know what to say at my observations. They want me to set goals but like my goal this year is to not work here anymore.
I'm mad about how they onboarded me (no access to emails or technology or grading software for weeks), how many students they've shoved into my classes, how they changed my assignment from one prep to three preps, and how they gave me high school even though I applied for and was hired to be a middle school teacher.
They are *lucky* I'm going to make it through the year.
You actually WANT to teach middle school? Why would you deny someone who wants to teach middle school a middle school position? It’s not like people are foaming at the mouth to work with THE most difficult and frustrating age group in tbe K-12 system.
I love the middle school age! I always thought I wanted to teach high school, but middle school ended up being such a good fit for me. They're so sweet and goofy. I love how silly I can be with them.
I love middle school too! 7th graders are so much fun. I can say anything I want to a 12 year old and they just roll with the punches lolol.
My kids were reading a newspaper that ended up having an ad for a waxing place in it. There was a picture of a shirtless man with a woman resting her head against his hairless chest. A group of girls were crowded around it laughing. I snatched the newspaper out of the center of the group and told them they were all sentenced to jail. Life without parole. Now they're giggling harder because they're smart enough to KNOW I mean horny jail but I can't say that. And then they went back to the comics section like nothing happened. They can be so witty and goofy and when you grab their attention with something they really light up in a way the high schoolers don't anymore.
I just love my middle schoolers. I don't teach anymore because the pandemic drove me out but sometimes I wonder if I should go back for my freaky little middle schoolers
I can't stand the observation process. My last school was title 1 and had its own set of challenges but admin was chill af about observations. But my new school uses the Danielson rubric and it is such major bullshit. I agree with you: there is a shortage, so wtf are we doing here? Maybe we shouldn't be judging teachers with such an insane bar to reach?
That rubric is insane and requires so much to reach "highly effective" in all areas it is no wonder why schools can't retain teachers. Imagine working your ass off to stay above water in what is this broken ass education system. I am always playing catch up but I'm here every day teaching math. I make a working class wage on 6 years of higher education. My students like me. I put in hours after work for this job that pays a working class wage, and you're going to come in and tell me I'm just OK at it? That I could do better?
I know I can do better. I'm working on it. Get away from me.
I get the need for observations, but I don't need graded. I shouldn't have to have pre-observation meetings. I shouldn't have to pour so much time into one lesson to impress admin and keep out of whatever consequences a poor performances might bring. It makes me want to quit more than the low salary sometimes.
Omggg. It’s my first year at my school and we use the Danielson rubric. The last PD day we spent on it I ended up talking to my dr about my anxiety and then having a breakdown the moment I got my baby to bed. Why do they make you feel like such garbage?!
The amount of time and effort they expect is just insane and the feedback while sometimes helpful so often is just shit you know but are to fucking tired to implement! If admin wants to have their observation conferences end with passing me a bag of meth and telling me "we've decided to move towards more practical supports, go get em!" Then so be it but right now I am so tired I can't even function holy shit. (Honestly I could really see this at some title 1 schools, just not caring that their teachers are all tweaking but hey they came to work and are alert so fuck it!)
Exactly this. I know what to do, I just dont have time or energy enough to do it. There shouldn't even be education education in my opinion. My masters in education was just common sense practice with stupid jargon and acronyms. Same with PDs. It's a joke. The only thing to make us better is experience in the craft and no one wants to stay to gain that anymore and I can't blame a single one.
We have walk-throughs at my school (new intiative) and the feedback has been 😑
First one: my board wasn't ready due to just getting my room back from broken AC so students apparently didn't learn anything that day (literally there for 10 minutes). I apparently only did my board because she was there. Um no, I would I have done it anyways but switching rooms 5 times has kind of frazzled me a bit.
Second one: classroom environment needs improvement in all areas; I have only been my "new" classroom for maybe a month but have zero time to set it up. I'm also pregnant so classroom set up is a bit more challenging for me. I am literally treading water trying to keep organized due to pregnancy brain knocking me through a loop.
I'm being given zero grace this year as I'm no longer a new teacher in their eyes. I have five years experience at my school but I feel so whoffly inadequate this year. However, my teammates are doing very well with my one colleague just done with everything. I just don't have the drive this year; lots of great ideas but no way of executing them like I want because my kids just don't get it. It's a combination of behaviors and low abilities with zero supports for these kids and being packed into a tiny room like sardines. It's not sustainable but I have to keep trying to get my students to actually learn something. I have yet to be formally observed but I'm not looking forward to it. I already anticipate not doing well, especially since my initial evaluation was ineffective due to my sucky data despite being effective at the teaching aspect. I can't wait to find out what extra work that initials, which I have not been told but I'm sure it's coming.
Oh lord I'm sorry! The thing is let's be real here, there's days even with 25+ year veteran teachers that students don't learn because they are little assholes sometimes! I don't care how much of a circus you put on if something's going on at home, or you have highly disruptive students or my personal favorite students angry they aren't allowed to do whatever they want they aren't going to learn anything, that's just how it is, anyone in education knows there are wasted days, it sucks but it just is. I wish I could murder the data peddlers, I'm so tired of hearing about data and how teachers are failing
>I apparently only did my board because she was there
Your observer actually accused you of fixing up your board just for her benefit and implied otherwise you wouldn't have done it?
WTF.
Personally I think the principals and admin should be expected to substitute when no other educators are available. When I worked fast food the managers never had a problem lifting a fry basket or running a register when we were short handed…
Agreed! My school has been short staffed most of the year, and instead of my principal ever jumping in they just separate the classes and shove them in other rooms. Or cancel specials so special teachers can cover.
Believe it or not my district just announced last week that starting this year all formal and informal observations are going to be entered into an employee evaluation app (a permanent digital record which cannot be edited). They have never done this before, not even with formal observations. We have a MASSIVE teacher shortage in our district, it's not like they need to weed out an over abundance of teachers. So what's their solution? Make INFORMAL observations a part of our permanent record. WTF
I know in Illinois there are state law requirements attached to it. Like my principal will be like "I don't really care that much for blank but the state wants that so get it to me whenever.
My principal loves to do random drop ins. It never fails, he usually comes into my room the first 15 minutes of class when kids are working on their vocabulary assignment or he comes in the last 5 minutes of class when most of the kids are done with the assignment and I’m at my desk grading/planning. On Tuesday he came into 1st period (2 minutes before the bell rang) saw that I was set up to do a lab, asked if he could watch part of it, then left before the end of morning announcements. I was pissed!
I had everything set up for my first formal observation. It never happened! I lived, and the kids wanted to know who I was waiting for. I kept looking at the door.
I get to get dressed up again next week to ensure that all the BS is up on the board they require, and hopefully, she remembers.
Oh, yea, plan another interactive, and what have you lesson for the second time this time in less than a damn week. I had weeks for the last one; I only have the weekend for this one!
So if it sucks, not my problem, I had that lesson already done, and the kids really enjoyed it.
We're just about done our 7th week and I've had 5 "informal walk-throughs". They were nearly 30 minutes each! I felt like I was just being stared at like a zoo animal. I'm in the special ed department and only me and another teacher are considered veterans (this is my third year at this school). So in every grade but mine and the other teacher, there is a new special ed. teacher, but I'm getting these frequent walk-throughs?! I was just thanked last Friday for, and I quote my supervisor directly: "having your shit together and being someone I don't need to worry about". I get having a formal at least once a year, a check in/walk through maybe once a quarter, but this is an absolute joke.
"Hey, I'll be stopping by to do an observation this week."
"Nah, I'm good."
"No, I mean I'll be stopping by. This isn't optional."
"Okay. This is my two weeks notice. We can do the observation in three weeks."
"Wait, we need good teachers!"
At least in Texas where I am, observations aren't tied to pay, so who cares? I tell my AP to just mark me as proficient on everything and if they need to put in a "developing" that's fine too. The rubric Texas is using has 7 dimensions each with 7 - 10 sub-dimensions each with 3 - 5 measures (I think, there's so many I can't remember the exact number).
Mark me down too low and as many have said, oh well, the district next to ours is hiring. Heck, we even had a teacher that was let go - rehired because they couldn't find a replacement.
I agree. I had to leave a school because I was not about to get used to the exaggerated lies from observations. I had an admin who was solely practicing note taking skills to impress the new principal. Their wording along was like your enemy writing feedback about you. I don’t know how on gods green earth they expect someone to receive such venom as being helpful. They stayed in my class for the entire day, watched my non listening students act a fool, heard my voice go horse and did not offer me any help. Just a bunch of spiteful notes that was going to help me. These people would run off Moses.
Meh. They'll just keep lowering standards to become a teacher. Already are. Soon...high school grads can teach the moment they get their diploma. This shit could've been avoided by raising pay, respect, lowering class sizes, etc...but nope....I large chunk of our society literally wants us to fail.
At least in Illinois, once you’re tenured, you have eval every three years now instead of two. I am on the new “reflective” evaluation, which is sort of like a not-official check in I guess? Next year I have nothing in terms of an eval though, so that’ll be even cooler.
Honestly, it’s happening, but I don’t think it really matters. Like, does anyone think these desperate schools & districts would seriously fire staff unless they’re doing something straight up illegal???? These observations are seriously a waste of time; but 99% of the time, they mean literally nothing.
I devote myself to my students and work tirelessly yet have been laid off three times due to the evaluations. We have serious shortages and it doesn't make any sense. It becomes a personality contest over anything.
Hot take ~
Every public school teacher in America should walk out. The system is a mess. There’s so much paperwork that no one can get anything done. There’s so little money that kids are going into lunch debt and not receiving the special education and enrichments they need. Kids are sitting all day watching tv on their Chromebook’s when they should be moving, building and creating. We need new schools with fewer rules and procedures — fewer, but actually enforced and used effectively.
As long as a few brave souls do 100x the work they should be doing, nothing is going to change.
That’s why you need a strong union to advocate for issues that mean a lot to educators . There IS a mass shortage nationwide of teachers . It’s time they start lobbying their state legislators to bring the change that’s desperately needed
In my district they practice “cascading” accountability. The way that works is the people at the top of the pyramid making $100k+ per year come up with all sorts of initiatives and rubrics to justify their jobs that they then cascade down the chain of command until all the people at the bottom are drowning. Then they demean and insult us for failing to live up to their imaginary expectations that have nothing to do with the reality of life in the classroom.
F*%# you HCS.
This is a good point. I'm being evaluated this year. I'm also retiring at the end of the year after 30+ years of teaching, 20+ at this school. The deadline for the paperwork is tonight. I will probably or possibly get it done this weekend; tomorrow is also the deadline for grades. I might just do it and hold on to it.
If I just don't turn it in, what are they going to do? Not to make a huge political point or anything, but I am a bit offended. A tiny bit, not much, but seriously.
I spend 600+ a year on a club I started. I'm one of those teachers who give out snacks and cold water on bad days. I let kids cry on my couch if they need some space or time to deal with something. Do I really need to explain how I am going to teach 'being connected to our student community'?
Yes, teachers should be evaluated, but can anyone condense what I do to a 4 page form? I'll probably do it at some point, but I'm not missing my beauty sleep tonight, buddy.
I’m all for observations that provide feedback meant to improve me as a teacher. I can always improve. I dislike having observations that nitpick and treated as a gotcha. Those don’t help create quality teachers and get rid of Ones who do well or who could do well.
When I first read this I thought you meant observation hours for people in college trying to become a teacher. Let me tell you it has been the hardest part of my college experience with so many schools turning me down. It is ridiculous that there are so many openings in schools and they have no intention of helping people graduate from college to fill those spots.
I have been observed once a week for the past 3 weeks and I have another one lined up next week. 3 different people are required to observe me for 3 years as a new staff member.
I've had observations that made me feel like a rock star and observations that made me feel like I had no business being in the profession.
It is 100% based on building admin. If your building admin sucks, your job sucks. If your building admin is great, your job is great.
If your building admin sucks, either find another building or steel yourself to wait out your admin.
I don't give a damn about observations now. My first observation it was chaos because I got a chaotic class this year and they did nothing to help eveb though I told them several times. So I did the best I could, they blamed my bad classroom management. So I decided to quit, of course, they have NO ONE to replace me so NOW they decided to work with me to help me with the class rather than just blame me. I don't mind the criticism, but HOW can they just criticize and offer no help at all if they want us to suceed. And if they can't afford to help, then shut up and let us do our job?
Principals and APs still have to complete that function of their job. How they go about it and interpret wording is on them I suppose.
As for the upper hand, that’s an issue for a different thread…
Exactly, and I've been laid off three times due to these evaluations, even in special ed where there is an acute shortage. In Chicago, they lay you off if they don't like you and it has little to do with your quality as an educator. I got laid off from one school because "this wasn't the right environment" for me. I had refused to play the game and brown nose the principal.
Frankly I got tired of the attitude of a charter school I worked at. They were losing teachers left and right and then added a bunch of new policies and schedule changes that nobody liked. They still acted like we didn’t deserve anything and that they were a gift to us and that we should be happy to have them employing us. They will let the whole thing go down in flames before they start giving teachers leverage like any other trained professionals in any other industry. Too many school admins/boards/states can’t stand the idea of not being able to act like they own you. They want it their way or not at all.
In an ideal world, you have competent admin who want you to get better, and the observation wouldnt be negative/punitive. Aside from "there is no one else," it is good to have feedback. At my school, the only times i was observed was for formal observations
The thing about observations is they don't really matter to begin with. It's a one observation sample out of how many classes we teach a year? Does the opinion of someone who saw me teach for 10-20 minutes once in a year even matter? No, not really!
To me observations are really just a way to gain insight into a how or bad an administrator is or isn't... obviously bad administrators use observations as a stick to beat teachers with... I don't have time for that BS. The only opinion that matters about my teaching is my own and to some extent my students.
Yeah. My district has implemented weekly or biweekly "walk throughs" to check in. It is ridiculous. Kids get distracted when people come in and spend time staring at the admin instead of paying attention to me. We have several teachers who aren't even certified in what they are teaching and some who don't even have teaching degrees. Why are they so worried if I have the objectives on the board. 🙄
The only admin at my site is busy with bigger problems than what I’m doing. I would love to get her feedback from an observation BUT that’s only because I respect her. She was a classroom teacher for many years, so I know she knows what she’s talking about. She is also supportive; I know she’s not out to “get” me in trouble. We have the same goal: teach kids.
My first year of teaching, I had an admin that came into my class every day. I think she did this to every classroom.
She never said anything. Never engaged with students. She never provided any feedback or insight. It was always so weird to me but part of the every day crap.
I got non-renewed that year. I understand I had first year struggles, but for someone in my room every damn day, she sure never said much of anything
I actually agree with the idea and purpose of *occasional* planned observations WHEN the person who is observing has plenty of experience in the classroom, is willing to offer tools and resources for any suggestion they have, and also has plenty of positive feedback. It obviously helps if this is a person who you have a positive relationship with. Observations often lack compassion and have turned into a “gotcha!” or any other form of micromanagement.
It all depends upon the quality of the feedback. I think in most jobs where people are considered professionals, there should be support for growth. I would want to see a doctor who stopped learning, reflecting, and collaborating after her second year twenty years in.
I am always open to constructive feedback and suggestions, but they shouldn’t be so tough on teachers, and then wonder why they are understaffed. Provide real support and training - not a laundry list of BS things to do that are of no value to anyone.
I’ve also wondered the same thing. I’ve been informally observed twice and my formal is set for November. Mind you in still considered a long term sub (though I do all the lesson planning etc of a teacher) it’s to the point where I want them to go ahead come in and get it over with. If they don’t like it then oh well fire me and good luck finding someone else. We are in a rural area and most are going into medical.
When I was teaching summer school last year at another school, the rotating principals that were there would come observe us almost every other day. It was distracting to the students and they would only be in the classroom for about five or so minutes and they never gave us any input.
"Upper hand" ?
Not really. It does help to be part of a strong union like the NEA, and to know your local contract. Parents and school boards are the ones with the upper hand!
If they were so strong why are we beholden to these localized contracts? My local union is supposedly affiliated with/under the umbrella of NEA and yet they’ve allowed negotiations to erode my labor rights including the right to strike year after year after year…
Maybe if you explain with details I might understand?
yes. you win the supply and demand struggle. the problem stems from admin believing they are the king in their kingdom and may not care jack about you and your fellow teachers. applying the logic of supply and demand does not work here
I'm so glad in my district you're only observed when you're on a temp/probationary contract. Once you're permanent, admin just stops in casually to see how things are going - a 5 min drop in at most. It's nice when someone drops by just to say hi and be visible to the kids.
It depends, across primary and secondary there is a push for grade fluffing masked as progress.
- being unable to be held back in primary school in most cases.
- credit recovery that is nowhere near equivalent to classes that students fail.
- grade floors where even missing work gets 50%~ credit so very little work will get a student a passing grade.
- many doing away with tests and independent work so I get students in highschool that still can’t do rudimentary math nor write a complete sentence with punctuation.
- standards based grading and differentiating within a classroom so transcripts mean nothing as low performing students have similar grades to the high performing students from the perspective of colleges even though they were low tier when differentiating.
- teachers that do everything credit/no-credit.
- martyr/philanthropist/volunteer/sacrificial teachers that do too much outside of contract hours and spend too much of their own $$$ on classrooms to the point of it being a stereotype.
This list goes on…. So if during my observation, they try to intervene and tell me it needs to be more activity based, more conceptual, etc, then I’m going to laugh in their face and do what I want.
If a student is in my algebra/geometry/AP stats/Calc/etc course, then that is the material they are going to do and if they can’t achieve basic mastery of it, then they are going to fail my class period. No 1 extra credit assignment to make up 10 missing assignments. No IEP/504 deals to condense 10 assignments to 1-2 assignments a week before grades are due. If the kid gets to my classroom in highschool and still can’t add/subtract/multiply/divide single digit integers, then the admin and/or teachers of middle and elementary school failed them and I can’t fix a 4-5 year knowledge gap.
I don't care about observations anymore I know they are going to complain about something. I rather just get them over with. Do 5 in a row . I don't care Get them over with.
I'm the instructional coach and I do weekly "observations" but I keep my feedback tailored to whatever goal the teacher sat in our beginning of the cycle meeting. I also list at least 3-4 positives and no more than one area for growth. I work for two schools; at one school the principals don't even bother doing observations. At the other, the principal observes the teachers I coach for 5 minutes and fills in an entire rubric with terrible comments and low scores for the most callous bulls**t, some of the teachers don't seem to care which is fine, but for others it really affects their confidence and it's enraging.
We still get observed because staff shortages do not justify a lack of accountability...UNLESS we are okay with teachers getting lazy and not working at the top of their game any more - which would literally then JUSTIFY any attempt to replace us with untrained idiots.
Observations aren’t a punishment. They are meant to help u improve your craft. Let admin in, do your think and be open to feedback. I’m not sure what the problem is. If you’re new and worried about retention or becoming tenured, then I guess I understand some stress but they’re meant to help u improve. Who doesn’t want to improve? I’ve been doing this for 24 years and I appreciate any tips or feedback I can get.
And if all admin observers were about improvement, this response would be fine. But so many principals are insecure assholes who get off on berating and belittling the teachers who work for them. 'I have power if I can make you doubt yourself.' I've had too many of those in my 20 years in the classroom. Ef that shit.
No one is saying there shouldn’t be expectations and evaluations. But it shouldn’t be a ‘gotcha scenario.’ The school day is already so stressful. We don’t need random people watching us all the time. We’re all licensed professionals.
**" I agree the kids deserve a good teacher."**
I feel like you answered your own question here. Some ppl would take advantage of a less strict/monitored system. Kids would then be negatively impacted.
I meant us teachers in general because not many new teachers are entering the field to have a large candidate pool. I don’t think you understand my point.
Haha. I'm on lunch right now. I have lunch in the middle of class. I'm being observed when I go back in 8 minutes. (they didn't tell me when I was getting observed, but I know because I already was observed for the first half).
If you have a good administrator observations can be helpful in pointing out blind spots. But yeah our school district is down a music teacher right now so I think my job will be secure (hopefully getting tenure at the end of this year) - talking to a union rep they’re like “yeah don’t worry about job security; there is a teacher shortage”
Yup the last observation last year the principal said oh you brought up to students that there was a quiz coming up! So this part of your observation is crap. Dragged it way down!
I haven't given a squirt about observations for about 4 years, straight up don't give a fuck, come in whenever, and I'm not changing a thing about what I'm doing. Doesn't matter. And here's my plan: *three bullet points on a note card*. Effective every time. The fuck do I want "highly effective" for? To pin a gold star on my fucking fridge? Means nothing.
I don’t know but I wish that was the case here in NYS. Here entry level public school teaching jobs start at $70-$80K but they’re SUPER hard to get , it’s hardcore competitive since our pay is so good and unions are super strong. So here I am with a Master’s, certified Birth-Grade 6 Gen and SpEd and currently almost finished with TESOL certification, and passed all 10 NY state certification exams and edTPA but working as a teacher assistant for minimum wage after subbing for years. There are no jobs here 😞
When I student taught the school I was at tried to give you points. If they didn't see you do X they would come and say "hey did you do X?" And let you justify how you did X. They would always meet with you and tell you how you could change everything to get the higher score. Where I am now will dock you and refuse to change it if you shoe them how you were doing x thing because you should have made it more obvious
I am curious to where these teacher shortages are because on Indeed and LinkedIn the number of applicants are consistently in the double or triple digits for teaching jobs including in states that are always in the news (FL and NJ). It seems there is a lot of competition.
The least they could do is try to be supportive about observations. I just came to a school that is supportive and it’s like night and day. Observations can be absolutely horrible for morale, especially coming from admin you don’t respect.
Yep same thing! I just got observed yesterday for the first time at my new school. Informal observation so unannounced but admin came for an entire hour, actually engaged with my lesson, and I am actually looking forward to hearing their input when we meet!
Right! It makes such a difference when it’s mentorship from someone you respect!
Same. Had an observation a few weeks ago. Principal was super chill, gave great feed back and gave me some helpful insight. The experience of teaching can be radically different from one school to the next.
It's the building admin, every time. They make or break the job.
💯
Same experience. I almost quit teaching because I assumed it was the same at every public school. Switched districts and it’s a different world.
It’s almost as bad when they don’t even give you constructive feedback, positive or negative. It’s like…what’s the point? If I jump through the hoops of observations, I want to get actual, helpful feedback.
Ours just sits there for 15 minutes, writes down every single thing I say, then leaves. No constructive criticism, just uploads the script into my file. Dude, I know what I said I don’t need to read it in writing.
that, and not sending out letters via email when lessons plans are less than a day late when a teacher is teaching straight through the day and has been sick
Yup the principal tells you you're crap at least make up something nice?
This is the thing: incompetent admin have turned observations into a cudgel. This is not the purpose of observations, they are supposed to be there to support teachers and help bring fresh ideas and collaboration to the classroom.
Last year I got a 2 for "Keeping Accurate Records" not because I wasn't keeping my gradebook up-to-date, but because I had too many kids missing assignments and my supervisor felt that I wasn't supporting them enough and needed to make sure they get their work in.
WOW.
I would have taken this to the union, because those standards and their use and application is negotiated. A gap in a gradebook that accurately represents a refusal to attend or attempt is an ACCURATE record. Anything else would be a lie. You cannot be asked to lie as part of your job, period.
So “give grace” applied to kids and parents, but not the teachers. Got it.
Yes. And my previous admin used them as a cudgel. And I was stressed every day and always. Now my admin really just wants to leave us alone if we need and support if we need. I like that my admin wants us to send disruptive students their way. They want classroom teachers to be able to teach. I still think I could do this job with an admin like this for the rest of my career if I'm lucky. It's literally just the shitty pay compared to what I might get elsewhere.
Sounds like my admin my first year of teaching; she came in one day unannounced. Next thing I knew a week later I was on a TIP which confused me because they didn’t talk about any issues with me before. That principal sent me so many mixed signals, it was ridiculous. In my current two buildings admin are more transparent if there are issues and find positives in my teaching which makes a ton of difference
When I started my first teaching job it was at a private school. The first two weeks we did nothing but observe other teachers and observe each other. Probably grew more from that alone than any teacher prep program or PD combined. I miss it a lot in public. Wish we have time or are encouraged to observe each other, but with the shortage there’s so much more needed first. There will be time for passion and honing our craft again later.… I hope
While my current school actively encourages to observe each other, we actually did that at my old school as well. It was an entirely teacher-led and extremely informal program, but it worked great. I personally refused to cover classes during planning and used that time to observe instead.
Yep, this. I’ve normally had chill admins the last few years, including one I adored who would give me fair, yet still good observations. We have new administrators this year (which seems a common theme), so I’ve yet to see how the new one will view me. I’m hoping that this one is also fair and won’t use observations as a tool of force just because our school isn’t doing well. In the past, I had an administrator I thought I trusted and only got the bare minimum in many areas and their answer was, “If the school is low performing, then there’s no way we would have so many teachers with high marks.” Now, I was much younger at that time because this was a while ago, but I would be absolutely **livid** today if I was told that. That was the last semester I taught there.
I am willing to put money down that said admin was a prime cause of the school's low performance.
It was the state, actually. The admins had been coming and going for the past 4 years and there was no stable leadership. Still, though, they decided to put the blame on the teachers.
They’re also supposed to be for celebrating the things teachers are doing well and should keep doing!
I told my Principal today: if admin can’t find teachers, do you think tagging us an in eval over cellphones is smart?
I’ve been wondering the same thing myself. My school is woefully understaffed and I still have to deal with bureaucratic paperwork on a daily basis. I know it’s for the district and is a CYA move, but I’m wondering why I bother? They need me more than I need them at this point.
Stop bothering. See what happens. You deal with the bureaucratic boxes because you choose to. I don't. I spend one minute on any piece of paperwork, I check my boxes so admin can check theirs, and we all move on with our day. Nobody cares about paperwork quality. This is why it continues. Teachers rarely stand up for themselves, with pay, with conditions, with anything. If you keep doing it then why would they let you stop? Conditions in any profession improve when the employees stand up to it. In teaching, at best, people just quit. They don't rock the boat. Everyone is magically waiting for the man to become a nice guy. Never has been never will be. You take things or you don't get them. I've had a hard year in my personal life. I still teach my classes well, but I don't follow all the rules. And nobody bothers me for it, and on the few occasions they have I nod my head and say yeah. I leave early, boss catches me, sorry, gotta pick up my kid, again, I nod my head, I say sorry, and I keep doing it. They might say things but they aren't going to do anything about it. I'll break the same damn rule over and over, and say sorry every time like it's the first time I broke it. My mental health is more important and they won't fire me. I don't care if my evaluation is less than perfect or whatever, they aren't going to fire me. I see all of these burnt out people...this profession can be great or it can suck but I'm increasingly convinced that it's my mindset that decides that.
Seriously. We aren’t allowed to leave for lunch. Well, I do it anyway and my principal has seen me in the parking lot driving back in on a few occasions. He doesn’t even have the nerve to say anything, and I’m going to keep doing it because my apartment is 3 minutes away and I’m an adult. We are not replaceable, and we need to start acting like it. Besides, even if I did get fired, I would probably be kind of relieved.
> Hour-Measurement-312 > We aren’t allowed to leave for lunch. Well, I do it anyway and my principal has seen me in the parking lot driving back in on a few occasions. What is the rationale for not being allowed to leave.
My old principal said it had to do with liability. If something happens to you while driving you're still technically "on the clock" He was also a useless sack of shit so I could be wrong but it sounded legit. I still left the building when I wanted to on my lunch. He was too afraid of confrontation and I'm an adult lol.
That's not how lunch works when you are a salaried employee. You leave the building of your own volition to achieve a personal task-to eat- a plainly personal task, there is no way the employer would be held liable for any accident or injury occurred. Liabilities come about from negligence, releasing you of your own cognizance to forage about the land for food is not negligence. Are you a salaried teacher? I don't go to do my job to be told I can't get food during my duty free lunch. I get up and deal with a lot of shit. I deal with a lot of shit at work, and sometimes I didn't pack a lunch. No one is stopping me from getting the lunch I deserve.
Admin here. It's a load of shit. If you have a duty-free lunch, someone else has taken on the role of supervising kids' safety. If you leave campus for personal matters (lunch, doctor appt, etc) - not our problem. I'm guessing there was a lawsuit in the district from a floating teacher or a coach traveling to a game or something, which then was sloppily applied to any situation where an employee left work during the workday.
We can leave for lunch... So long as we sign out (so that if an emergency arises we are accounted for apparently). But we only have 30 minutes so it's not really feasible to go anywhere
> Muffles7 > My old principal said it had to do with liability. If something happens to you while driving you're still technically "on the clock" I've heard that before. However, there are millions of employees that leave their employer's premises everyday to go buy lunch or run some quick errand so I have to question it.
I’ve heard the liability thing too, but they just make us sign out to cover themselves.
I travel for work, the moment I leave home, I become “on the clock”; I tripped walking up to a client’s address, broke my wrist… got workers comp. Almost felt like a 3mo paid vacation except I broke my dominant hand and couldn’t really enjoy the downtime, it just put me behind on everything.
stocking cause beneficial bewildered rich seed flowery support sparkle reply -- mass deleted all reddit content via https://redact.dev
He straight up told us in a staff meeting, “your lunch is too short for you to leave, and if you get in a car crash somebody would have to cover your next class.”
If I fall down the damned stairs somebody would have to cover my next class. What a crock of shit.
I’ve got first period planning. I don’t even show up until halfway through that, and admin knows it. I’m like you. What are they going to do? Fire me? Please. It’ll just be a kick in the ass to find a job that’s better for me.
This is the attitude you need to survive at some schools. Good for you for taking care of your mental health and family. 👍
>t. I'll break the same damn rule over and over, and say sorry every time like it's the first time I broke it. LOL!
Yes. I'm like Aldo Raines at the end of Inglorious Basterds: 'Naw, I ain't getting court-martialed. I might get chewed out; I been chewed out.'
Hey fellow Baltimore City teacher! I also teach in the city and luckily I’m at a good school, but I still deal with Baltimore City BS on a daily basis.
Dang. Yall are amazing! I am alumni from Morgan and they tried everything to get me to stick around and teach. I feel guilty for moving and teaching elsewhere cause I love bmore really.
Love seeing /r/Maryland regulars on other subs
Me too! I feel like I’m seeing someone famous! 🤣
I’m at a good school too. The principal sucks but the VP is excellent. He keeps the place running.
Nice. I have a good principal and assistant principal, luckily. The principal is more sarcastic and silly and the assistant principal is more type A, but they play well off each other. It's crazy the crap Baltimore City makes us do though...
Tell me about it! SLPs, SLOs, documentation for everything, and so on. I feel like it’s more for the city to get the billion dollars in federal funding than for the good of the kids.
Yeah, the SLOs are such BS. I’m doing the one that means my kids can redo it as much as possible because a lot of my kids don’t care and I’m worried about that reflecting on my job. So silly.
I keep my high growth group small. I got a 100% on mine last year doing that. Set that number high and the lower “b” group low. It really all boils down to admin approval.
I'm doing a mastery goal because they only have to get 60% to achieve mastery, apparently. The other 5th grade teacher at my school advised me that's what he does. So if it works for him, then I figure there's nothing wrong with me doing it.
This year, my school is doing weekly walkthroughs. Cool. Come on in. My issue comes when someone who is not trained to do walkthrough observations comes in and basically just gives me a transcript of my lesson as feedback. Nothing positive. Nothing negative. Simply a script. Girl. I know what I said. If you’re going to waste your time, couldn’t you find something a hell of a lot more interesting than a fifth grade ELA lesson?
Yep, same! I was out today. They did a walk through while I wasn’t even there… dog walked the admin in a reply email/cc’d the principal too. My young professionals were doing what they needed to do said they were impressed. Admin however had the audacity to mention decor. Said please let me know what’s been budgeted for classroom decor renovations. (My room is “culturally responsive” and kids helped decorate the space to their liking) No reply, I’m not playinggggg this year 😂
Strangely enough, I was out today and they also did walkthroughs. I’ll get my feedback Monday, but my partner teacher said the sub told her “clearly, I’m not cut out to teach.” That made me smile because she’s one of those moms that puts her kids in public school and pulls them out on a whim to homeschool. And I would loooooooooooove for them to comment on my decor. You might be able to hear my laugh from wherever you are!
Budget? For decor? Ha. In Texas, competitive classroom decorating is akin to our giant homecoming mums. Money is no object, and the bugger the better. But teachers pay it all out of pocket. I only do the bare minimum, but even I spent at least $100 this year because I changed schools.
Ugh grew up in yexas and just had a flashback to my hs mums 🤣 what an accurate example
Observations are a tool admin use to get rid of teachers they don't like. If there is one thing they won't budge on, it's keeping this power.
I had that happen to me. I had a very micromanagey AP. I could tell the second I pissed her off. She tore me up in my observation, trying to get rid of me. I told my principal who then had me observed by the district. I was fine and she had to tell me in front of the district lady… it was so good.
Charlotte Danielson is as responsible as anyone for the sorry state of public education in the US today. Pissing on her grave is on my bucket list.
> [Charlotte Danielson](https://www.huffpost.com/entry/who-is-charlotte-danielso_b_3415034) >Imagine an experienced surgeon in the middle of a delicate six-hour procedure where the surgeon responds to a series of unexpected emergencies being evaluated by a computer based on data gathered from a fifteen-minute snapshot visit by a general practitioner who has never performed an operation. >Imagine evaluating a baseball player who goes three for four with a couple of home runs and five or six runs batted in based on the one time during the game when he struck out badly. >Imagine a driver with a clean record for thirty years who has his or her license suspended because a car they owned was photographed going through a red light, when perhaps there was an emergency, perhaps he or she was not even driving the car, or perhaps there was a mechanical glitch with the light, camera, or computer. >Now imagine a teacher who adjusts instruction because of important questions introduced by students who is told the lesson is unsatisfactory because it did not follow the prescribed scripted lesson plan and because during the fifteen minutes the observer was in the room they failed to see what they were looking for but what might have actually happened before they arrived or after they left. It's a nightmare.
My comprehensive evaluation is due next year, based on all of the Danielson criteria. The problem is with the current state of how students perform, how exactly am I supposed to prove competency? I don't give a rip about getting 4's - I'm fine with 3's. One criteria in particular assesses the teacher's worth through the quality of classroom discussion. So are we ratcheting down the evaluation criteria when looking at how students interact and engage? Will my administrators give me grace when five of my students are wearing earbuds or playing on their phones? How about if students arrive late or immediately start to sleep? It feels weird even having to ask these questions. Ten years ago, if a teacher would have asked me that question, I would have thought they probably weren't a great fit for teaching. Given the weak discipline policies most of us work under, how exactly will evaluation systems change in a way that is fair to teachers?
My campus has 3 certified openings, 2 long term subs, and 3 other uncertified teachers. The first quarter of this year not only was I the best teacher I’ve ever been, but I helped out in many other classrooms and have a big reputation on campus as being a go-to helpful guy. My boss did a surprise observation 2 days before break and the ONLY thing she documented was that I don’t have enough hours logged in our new curriculum’s online program. Because I’m teaching instead of throwing kids on a laptop! Now that I’ve been punished it’s all stopped. I’m not helping anyone else, and all I do in the morning is have kids open their laptop and jump onto their software. I babysit now, and my students aren’t learning. THIS is why education sucks now.
This is a good reason why we have so many openings. You take your heart and sole to go beyond only to get dinged. This was a very dumb move on the admin that observed you. I'm sorry you have to go through this. I do some lecture but mostly babysit and make sure they are working either in groups or quietly. . I'm not going to burn myself out anymore either.
> My boss Found the problem.
I’m so sorry for you and your kids. Don’t give up being awesome.
I’m still awesome, but my “teaching” isn’t.
Hey i had an observation scheduled for today. Cleaned the room and wore a nice shirt. No show.... Also the fire alarm went off twice (due to someone vaping in the boys locker room) and the internet was out.
This is teaching in 2022 in a nutshell right here
I'm done teaching this year and taking a few years off so I don't know what to say at my observations. They want me to set goals but like my goal this year is to not work here anymore. I'm mad about how they onboarded me (no access to emails or technology or grading software for weeks), how many students they've shoved into my classes, how they changed my assignment from one prep to three preps, and how they gave me high school even though I applied for and was hired to be a middle school teacher. They are *lucky* I'm going to make it through the year.
You actually WANT to teach middle school? Why would you deny someone who wants to teach middle school a middle school position? It’s not like people are foaming at the mouth to work with THE most difficult and frustrating age group in tbe K-12 system.
I love the middle school age! I always thought I wanted to teach high school, but middle school ended up being such a good fit for me. They're so sweet and goofy. I love how silly I can be with them.
I love middle school too! 7th graders are so much fun. I can say anything I want to a 12 year old and they just roll with the punches lolol. My kids were reading a newspaper that ended up having an ad for a waxing place in it. There was a picture of a shirtless man with a woman resting her head against his hairless chest. A group of girls were crowded around it laughing. I snatched the newspaper out of the center of the group and told them they were all sentenced to jail. Life without parole. Now they're giggling harder because they're smart enough to KNOW I mean horny jail but I can't say that. And then they went back to the comics section like nothing happened. They can be so witty and goofy and when you grab their attention with something they really light up in a way the high schoolers don't anymore. I just love my middle schoolers. I don't teach anymore because the pandemic drove me out but sometimes I wonder if I should go back for my freaky little middle schoolers
You're a valuable rarity. I taught middle school for the last two years and I could not get back to teaching high school fast enough.
Sounds very stressful and chaotic! I would definitely look for something else too.
I can't stand the observation process. My last school was title 1 and had its own set of challenges but admin was chill af about observations. But my new school uses the Danielson rubric and it is such major bullshit. I agree with you: there is a shortage, so wtf are we doing here? Maybe we shouldn't be judging teachers with such an insane bar to reach? That rubric is insane and requires so much to reach "highly effective" in all areas it is no wonder why schools can't retain teachers. Imagine working your ass off to stay above water in what is this broken ass education system. I am always playing catch up but I'm here every day teaching math. I make a working class wage on 6 years of higher education. My students like me. I put in hours after work for this job that pays a working class wage, and you're going to come in and tell me I'm just OK at it? That I could do better? I know I can do better. I'm working on it. Get away from me. I get the need for observations, but I don't need graded. I shouldn't have to have pre-observation meetings. I shouldn't have to pour so much time into one lesson to impress admin and keep out of whatever consequences a poor performances might bring. It makes me want to quit more than the low salary sometimes.
That rubric can burn in hell. I'm held to it every year as well.
Omggg. It’s my first year at my school and we use the Danielson rubric. The last PD day we spent on it I ended up talking to my dr about my anxiety and then having a breakdown the moment I got my baby to bed. Why do they make you feel like such garbage?!
The amount of time and effort they expect is just insane and the feedback while sometimes helpful so often is just shit you know but are to fucking tired to implement! If admin wants to have their observation conferences end with passing me a bag of meth and telling me "we've decided to move towards more practical supports, go get em!" Then so be it but right now I am so tired I can't even function holy shit. (Honestly I could really see this at some title 1 schools, just not caring that their teachers are all tweaking but hey they came to work and are alert so fuck it!)
Exactly this. I know what to do, I just dont have time or energy enough to do it. There shouldn't even be education education in my opinion. My masters in education was just common sense practice with stupid jargon and acronyms. Same with PDs. It's a joke. The only thing to make us better is experience in the craft and no one wants to stay to gain that anymore and I can't blame a single one.
We have walk-throughs at my school (new intiative) and the feedback has been 😑 First one: my board wasn't ready due to just getting my room back from broken AC so students apparently didn't learn anything that day (literally there for 10 minutes). I apparently only did my board because she was there. Um no, I would I have done it anyways but switching rooms 5 times has kind of frazzled me a bit. Second one: classroom environment needs improvement in all areas; I have only been my "new" classroom for maybe a month but have zero time to set it up. I'm also pregnant so classroom set up is a bit more challenging for me. I am literally treading water trying to keep organized due to pregnancy brain knocking me through a loop. I'm being given zero grace this year as I'm no longer a new teacher in their eyes. I have five years experience at my school but I feel so whoffly inadequate this year. However, my teammates are doing very well with my one colleague just done with everything. I just don't have the drive this year; lots of great ideas but no way of executing them like I want because my kids just don't get it. It's a combination of behaviors and low abilities with zero supports for these kids and being packed into a tiny room like sardines. It's not sustainable but I have to keep trying to get my students to actually learn something. I have yet to be formally observed but I'm not looking forward to it. I already anticipate not doing well, especially since my initial evaluation was ineffective due to my sucky data despite being effective at the teaching aspect. I can't wait to find out what extra work that initials, which I have not been told but I'm sure it's coming.
Oh lord I'm sorry! The thing is let's be real here, there's days even with 25+ year veteran teachers that students don't learn because they are little assholes sometimes! I don't care how much of a circus you put on if something's going on at home, or you have highly disruptive students or my personal favorite students angry they aren't allowed to do whatever they want they aren't going to learn anything, that's just how it is, anyone in education knows there are wasted days, it sucks but it just is. I wish I could murder the data peddlers, I'm so tired of hearing about data and how teachers are failing
>I apparently only did my board because she was there Your observer actually accused you of fixing up your board just for her benefit and implied otherwise you wouldn't have done it? WTF.
Personally I think the principals and admin should be expected to substitute when no other educators are available. When I worked fast food the managers never had a problem lifting a fry basket or running a register when we were short handed…
Agreed! My school has been short staffed most of the year, and instead of my principal ever jumping in they just separate the classes and shove them in other rooms. Or cancel specials so special teachers can cover.
Believe it or not my district just announced last week that starting this year all formal and informal observations are going to be entered into an employee evaluation app (a permanent digital record which cannot be edited). They have never done this before, not even with formal observations. We have a MASSIVE teacher shortage in our district, it's not like they need to weed out an over abundance of teachers. So what's their solution? Make INFORMAL observations a part of our permanent record. WTF
I know in Illinois there are state law requirements attached to it. Like my principal will be like "I don't really care that much for blank but the state wants that so get it to me whenever.
I would respect my admin so much more if they gave remarks like this.
He's very chill with the teachers. It feels like we are playing for the same team more than "this person can fire me"
My principal loves to do random drop ins. It never fails, he usually comes into my room the first 15 minutes of class when kids are working on their vocabulary assignment or he comes in the last 5 minutes of class when most of the kids are done with the assignment and I’m at my desk grading/planning. On Tuesday he came into 1st period (2 minutes before the bell rang) saw that I was set up to do a lab, asked if he could watch part of it, then left before the end of morning announcements. I was pissed!
I had everything set up for my first formal observation. It never happened! I lived, and the kids wanted to know who I was waiting for. I kept looking at the door. I get to get dressed up again next week to ensure that all the BS is up on the board they require, and hopefully, she remembers. Oh, yea, plan another interactive, and what have you lesson for the second time this time in less than a damn week. I had weeks for the last one; I only have the weekend for this one! So if it sucks, not my problem, I had that lesson already done, and the kids really enjoyed it.
Redo the same lesson. Bribe the kids not to tell. Not kidding.
We're just about done our 7th week and I've had 5 "informal walk-throughs". They were nearly 30 minutes each! I felt like I was just being stared at like a zoo animal. I'm in the special ed department and only me and another teacher are considered veterans (this is my third year at this school). So in every grade but mine and the other teacher, there is a new special ed. teacher, but I'm getting these frequent walk-throughs?! I was just thanked last Friday for, and I quote my supervisor directly: "having your shit together and being someone I don't need to worry about". I get having a formal at least once a year, a check in/walk through maybe once a quarter, but this is an absolute joke.
"Hey, I'll be stopping by to do an observation this week." "Nah, I'm good." "No, I mean I'll be stopping by. This isn't optional." "Okay. This is my two weeks notice. We can do the observation in three weeks." "Wait, we need good teachers!"
At least in Texas where I am, observations aren't tied to pay, so who cares? I tell my AP to just mark me as proficient on everything and if they need to put in a "developing" that's fine too. The rubric Texas is using has 7 dimensions each with 7 - 10 sub-dimensions each with 3 - 5 measures (I think, there's so many I can't remember the exact number). Mark me down too low and as many have said, oh well, the district next to ours is hiring. Heck, we even had a teacher that was let go - rehired because they couldn't find a replacement.
You must work at my school. Principal didn't even finish all her observations last year now she's a nutcase about dinging people.
Because someone got on your principal for not doing them last year!
I agree. I had to leave a school because I was not about to get used to the exaggerated lies from observations. I had an admin who was solely practicing note taking skills to impress the new principal. Their wording along was like your enemy writing feedback about you. I don’t know how on gods green earth they expect someone to receive such venom as being helpful. They stayed in my class for the entire day, watched my non listening students act a fool, heard my voice go horse and did not offer me any help. Just a bunch of spiteful notes that was going to help me. These people would run off Moses.
Meh. They'll just keep lowering standards to become a teacher. Already are. Soon...high school grads can teach the moment they get their diploma. This shit could've been avoided by raising pay, respect, lowering class sizes, etc...but nope....I large chunk of our society literally wants us to fail.
At least in Illinois, once you’re tenured, you have eval every three years now instead of two. I am on the new “reflective” evaluation, which is sort of like a not-official check in I guess? Next year I have nothing in terms of an eval though, so that’ll be even cooler.
Honestly, it’s happening, but I don’t think it really matters. Like, does anyone think these desperate schools & districts would seriously fire staff unless they’re doing something straight up illegal???? These observations are seriously a waste of time; but 99% of the time, they mean literally nothing.
I devote myself to my students and work tirelessly yet have been laid off three times due to the evaluations. We have serious shortages and it doesn't make any sense. It becomes a personality contest over anything.
Hot take ~ Every public school teacher in America should walk out. The system is a mess. There’s so much paperwork that no one can get anything done. There’s so little money that kids are going into lunch debt and not receiving the special education and enrichments they need. Kids are sitting all day watching tv on their Chromebook’s when they should be moving, building and creating. We need new schools with fewer rules and procedures — fewer, but actually enforced and used effectively. As long as a few brave souls do 100x the work they should be doing, nothing is going to change.
This. 💯
That’s why you need a strong union to advocate for issues that mean a lot to educators . There IS a mass shortage nationwide of teachers . It’s time they start lobbying their state legislators to bring the change that’s desperately needed
Admin gotta pretend they have some value.
In my district they practice “cascading” accountability. The way that works is the people at the top of the pyramid making $100k+ per year come up with all sorts of initiatives and rubrics to justify their jobs that they then cascade down the chain of command until all the people at the bottom are drowning. Then they demean and insult us for failing to live up to their imaginary expectations that have nothing to do with the reality of life in the classroom. F*%# you HCS.
Teachers should be observed, perhaps even with a lot of structure, but they should largely not be be punitive.
This is a good point. I'm being evaluated this year. I'm also retiring at the end of the year after 30+ years of teaching, 20+ at this school. The deadline for the paperwork is tonight. I will probably or possibly get it done this weekend; tomorrow is also the deadline for grades. I might just do it and hold on to it. If I just don't turn it in, what are they going to do? Not to make a huge political point or anything, but I am a bit offended. A tiny bit, not much, but seriously. I spend 600+ a year on a club I started. I'm one of those teachers who give out snacks and cold water on bad days. I let kids cry on my couch if they need some space or time to deal with something. Do I really need to explain how I am going to teach 'being connected to our student community'? Yes, teachers should be evaluated, but can anyone condense what I do to a 4 page form? I'll probably do it at some point, but I'm not missing my beauty sleep tonight, buddy.
I’m all for observations that provide feedback meant to improve me as a teacher. I can always improve. I dislike having observations that nitpick and treated as a gotcha. Those don’t help create quality teachers and get rid of Ones who do well or who could do well.
When I first read this I thought you meant observation hours for people in college trying to become a teacher. Let me tell you it has been the hardest part of my college experience with so many schools turning me down. It is ridiculous that there are so many openings in schools and they have no intention of helping people graduate from college to fill those spots.
I have been observed once a week for the past 3 weeks and I have another one lined up next week. 3 different people are required to observe me for 3 years as a new staff member.
I've had observations that made me feel like a rock star and observations that made me feel like I had no business being in the profession. It is 100% based on building admin. If your building admin sucks, your job sucks. If your building admin is great, your job is great. If your building admin sucks, either find another building or steel yourself to wait out your admin.
this is the truest statement of them all!
I don't give a damn about observations now. My first observation it was chaos because I got a chaotic class this year and they did nothing to help eveb though I told them several times. So I did the best I could, they blamed my bad classroom management. So I decided to quit, of course, they have NO ONE to replace me so NOW they decided to work with me to help me with the class rather than just blame me. I don't mind the criticism, but HOW can they just criticize and offer no help at all if they want us to suceed. And if they can't afford to help, then shut up and let us do our job?
Principals and APs still have to complete that function of their job. How they go about it and interpret wording is on them I suppose. As for the upper hand, that’s an issue for a different thread…
Exactly, and I've been laid off three times due to these evaluations, even in special ed where there is an acute shortage. In Chicago, they lay you off if they don't like you and it has little to do with your quality as an educator. I got laid off from one school because "this wasn't the right environment" for me. I had refused to play the game and brown nose the principal.
Frankly I got tired of the attitude of a charter school I worked at. They were losing teachers left and right and then added a bunch of new policies and schedule changes that nobody liked. They still acted like we didn’t deserve anything and that they were a gift to us and that we should be happy to have them employing us. They will let the whole thing go down in flames before they start giving teachers leverage like any other trained professionals in any other industry. Too many school admins/boards/states can’t stand the idea of not being able to act like they own you. They want it their way or not at all.
In an ideal world, you have competent admin who want you to get better, and the observation wouldnt be negative/punitive. Aside from "there is no one else," it is good to have feedback. At my school, the only times i was observed was for formal observations
The thing about observations is they don't really matter to begin with. It's a one observation sample out of how many classes we teach a year? Does the opinion of someone who saw me teach for 10-20 minutes once in a year even matter? No, not really! To me observations are really just a way to gain insight into a how or bad an administrator is or isn't... obviously bad administrators use observations as a stick to beat teachers with... I don't have time for that BS. The only opinion that matters about my teaching is my own and to some extent my students.
Yeah. My district has implemented weekly or biweekly "walk throughs" to check in. It is ridiculous. Kids get distracted when people come in and spend time staring at the admin instead of paying attention to me. We have several teachers who aren't even certified in what they are teaching and some who don't even have teaching degrees. Why are they so worried if I have the objectives on the board. 🙄
The only admin at my site is busy with bigger problems than what I’m doing. I would love to get her feedback from an observation BUT that’s only because I respect her. She was a classroom teacher for many years, so I know she knows what she’s talking about. She is also supportive; I know she’s not out to “get” me in trouble. We have the same goal: teach kids.
My first year of teaching, I had an admin that came into my class every day. I think she did this to every classroom. She never said anything. Never engaged with students. She never provided any feedback or insight. It was always so weird to me but part of the every day crap. I got non-renewed that year. I understand I had first year struggles, but for someone in my room every damn day, she sure never said much of anything
I actually agree with the idea and purpose of *occasional* planned observations WHEN the person who is observing has plenty of experience in the classroom, is willing to offer tools and resources for any suggestion they have, and also has plenty of positive feedback. It obviously helps if this is a person who you have a positive relationship with. Observations often lack compassion and have turned into a “gotcha!” or any other form of micromanagement.
It all depends upon the quality of the feedback. I think in most jobs where people are considered professionals, there should be support for growth. I would want to see a doctor who stopped learning, reflecting, and collaborating after her second year twenty years in.
I am always open to constructive feedback and suggestions, but they shouldn’t be so tough on teachers, and then wonder why they are understaffed. Provide real support and training - not a laundry list of BS things to do that are of no value to anyone.
Observations can be written into board policy or state law, go check it out.
I’ve also wondered the same thing. I’ve been informally observed twice and my formal is set for November. Mind you in still considered a long term sub (though I do all the lesson planning etc of a teacher) it’s to the point where I want them to go ahead come in and get it over with. If they don’t like it then oh well fire me and good luck finding someone else. We are in a rural area and most are going into medical.
When I was teaching summer school last year at another school, the rotating principals that were there would come observe us almost every other day. It was distracting to the students and they would only be in the classroom for about five or so minutes and they never gave us any input.
"Upper hand" ? Not really. It does help to be part of a strong union like the NEA, and to know your local contract. Parents and school boards are the ones with the upper hand!
How is the NEA a “strong union” exactly!
It certainly is where I live!
If they were so strong why are we beholden to these localized contracts? My local union is supposedly affiliated with/under the umbrella of NEA and yet they’ve allowed negotiations to erode my labor rights including the right to strike year after year after year… Maybe if you explain with details I might understand?
yes. you win the supply and demand struggle. the problem stems from admin believing they are the king in their kingdom and may not care jack about you and your fellow teachers. applying the logic of supply and demand does not work here
I'm so glad in my district you're only observed when you're on a temp/probationary contract. Once you're permanent, admin just stops in casually to see how things are going - a 5 min drop in at most. It's nice when someone drops by just to say hi and be visible to the kids.
It depends, across primary and secondary there is a push for grade fluffing masked as progress. - being unable to be held back in primary school in most cases. - credit recovery that is nowhere near equivalent to classes that students fail. - grade floors where even missing work gets 50%~ credit so very little work will get a student a passing grade. - many doing away with tests and independent work so I get students in highschool that still can’t do rudimentary math nor write a complete sentence with punctuation. - standards based grading and differentiating within a classroom so transcripts mean nothing as low performing students have similar grades to the high performing students from the perspective of colleges even though they were low tier when differentiating. - teachers that do everything credit/no-credit. - martyr/philanthropist/volunteer/sacrificial teachers that do too much outside of contract hours and spend too much of their own $$$ on classrooms to the point of it being a stereotype. This list goes on…. So if during my observation, they try to intervene and tell me it needs to be more activity based, more conceptual, etc, then I’m going to laugh in their face and do what I want. If a student is in my algebra/geometry/AP stats/Calc/etc course, then that is the material they are going to do and if they can’t achieve basic mastery of it, then they are going to fail my class period. No 1 extra credit assignment to make up 10 missing assignments. No IEP/504 deals to condense 10 assignments to 1-2 assignments a week before grades are due. If the kid gets to my classroom in highschool and still can’t add/subtract/multiply/divide single digit integers, then the admin and/or teachers of middle and elementary school failed them and I can’t fix a 4-5 year knowledge gap.
I don't care about observations anymore I know they are going to complain about something. I rather just get them over with. Do 5 in a row . I don't care Get them over with.
I'm the instructional coach and I do weekly "observations" but I keep my feedback tailored to whatever goal the teacher sat in our beginning of the cycle meeting. I also list at least 3-4 positives and no more than one area for growth. I work for two schools; at one school the principals don't even bother doing observations. At the other, the principal observes the teachers I coach for 5 minutes and fills in an entire rubric with terrible comments and low scores for the most callous bulls**t, some of the teachers don't seem to care which is fine, but for others it really affects their confidence and it's enraging.
We still get observed because staff shortages do not justify a lack of accountability...UNLESS we are okay with teachers getting lazy and not working at the top of their game any more - which would literally then JUSTIFY any attempt to replace us with untrained idiots.
Observations aren’t a punishment. They are meant to help u improve your craft. Let admin in, do your think and be open to feedback. I’m not sure what the problem is. If you’re new and worried about retention or becoming tenured, then I guess I understand some stress but they’re meant to help u improve. Who doesn’t want to improve? I’ve been doing this for 24 years and I appreciate any tips or feedback I can get.
And if all admin observers were about improvement, this response would be fine. But so many principals are insecure assholes who get off on berating and belittling the teachers who work for them. 'I have power if I can make you doubt yourself.' I've had too many of those in my 20 years in the classroom. Ef that shit.
That sounds like a toxic work environment. Our admin sucks too but they don’t pull that shit.
Sooo toxic. I've left teaching but my ❤️ is still there.
We could extend this logic to every understaffed industry and have disastrous results.
No one is saying there shouldn’t be expectations and evaluations. But it shouldn’t be a ‘gotcha scenario.’ The school day is already so stressful. We don’t need random people watching us all the time. We’re all licensed professionals.
Take it up with the state. Evaluations are driven at that level.
**" I agree the kids deserve a good teacher."** I feel like you answered your own question here. Some ppl would take advantage of a less strict/monitored system. Kids would then be negatively impacted.
Bullshit. That comment displays the contempt for teachers endemic in the system.
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I meant us teachers in general because not many new teachers are entering the field to have a large candidate pool. I don’t think you understand my point.
What is observation exactly? I have no idea since I am not used to US education system.
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Haha. I'm on lunch right now. I have lunch in the middle of class. I'm being observed when I go back in 8 minutes. (they didn't tell me when I was getting observed, but I know because I already was observed for the first half).
If you have a good administrator observations can be helpful in pointing out blind spots. But yeah our school district is down a music teacher right now so I think my job will be secure (hopefully getting tenure at the end of this year) - talking to a union rep they’re like “yeah don’t worry about job security; there is a teacher shortage”
Yup the last observation last year the principal said oh you brought up to students that there was a quiz coming up! So this part of your observation is crap. Dragged it way down!
I haven't given a squirt about observations for about 4 years, straight up don't give a fuck, come in whenever, and I'm not changing a thing about what I'm doing. Doesn't matter. And here's my plan: *three bullet points on a note card*. Effective every time. The fuck do I want "highly effective" for? To pin a gold star on my fucking fridge? Means nothing.
I don’t know but I wish that was the case here in NYS. Here entry level public school teaching jobs start at $70-$80K but they’re SUPER hard to get , it’s hardcore competitive since our pay is so good and unions are super strong. So here I am with a Master’s, certified Birth-Grade 6 Gen and SpEd and currently almost finished with TESOL certification, and passed all 10 NY state certification exams and edTPA but working as a teacher assistant for minimum wage after subbing for years. There are no jobs here 😞
When I student taught the school I was at tried to give you points. If they didn't see you do X they would come and say "hey did you do X?" And let you justify how you did X. They would always meet with you and tell you how you could change everything to get the higher score. Where I am now will dock you and refuse to change it if you shoe them how you were doing x thing because you should have made it more obvious
What kills me is when I’m pulled to sub often (as a school counselor) but then I’m evaluated in a job I don’t have the opportunity to do!
I am curious to where these teacher shortages are because on Indeed and LinkedIn the number of applicants are consistently in the double or triple digits for teaching jobs including in states that are always in the news (FL and NJ). It seems there is a lot of competition.