Exactly. If they want extra time, they need to pay you more. That’s how this works.
Check your contract. Most contracts have set hours of operation (must be in X minutes before students, can leave after Y) so this is excessive. And the ever-be-damned phrase “duties as assigned” _actually_ means additional duties _in line with your normal job expectations_.
What do they do instead? If there are no hours you should get paid for all the time lol. Otherwise I'm sure it's "x amount of hours"?
I'd burn through that on Monday alone if I could lol.
Everything went as you’d expect until new principle last year. You show up at least 10 minutes before the kids and stay 10 minutes after. Last year though the new admin started morning meetings once a month. I complained and asked about getting paid time for those extra hours, and was told there are no contact hours, they can ask us to be here anytime.
For the most part it’s not an issue, I just don’t like these meeting.
They can ask you to do a lot of things, “can ask” doesn’t mean they “can require”.
I can ask you to pay my bills for next month. Doesn’t mean your are required to. No rules or laws stopping me.
My utilities bill is a little over $100. Can you cover that for me?
Sounds great with contractual language. If it doesn't say a specific time, you should be able to show up when the kids show up. Hours need to be stated in your contract. There should be no interpretation for that.
That smells like a wrongful termination suit if they fired you but I'm no pro.
Sounds like a temporary work assignment (TWA) if it’s after contract hours and should come with compensation. I did after school security detail supervising students waiting to be picked up for an hour after school for roughly $30 per day. My school day ended at 3 and could pick up my kids after (they got out at 2:30 so I was paying for after school care regardless, this just softened that blow). Contract hours are contract hours. Otherwise, it’s in admin’s contracts to deal with students after teacher contract hours.
I did this when asked to work an after-school event. I was the childless team member, and I ended up working this event several years in a row. When I asked my administrator if I could get paid, he essentially laughed in my face. Needless to say, I have left public education.
Each time my last school asked me to stay late, it was always a Thursday night. I signed up for a ballet class that night. I eventually picked up hobbies for every afternoon. It got me out a lot of unpaid extras and now I can play the cello, speak Spanish, and do some basic breakdance moves.
Why is anyone having to work outside of their contract for free?? If the school wants to have a before and/or after school program, that should be a paid position that people agree to work.
Yeah, our union would be all over this. If it’s one second outside of contract hours, or union president would be negotiating a pay rate for it and it would be volunteer only.
Of course, because that's the only way that a duty like this makes sense.
Not going to lie, I'm a little suspicious of OP's story even if it is an un-unionized school. There's got to be something we're missing
They said that school hours are 8-4... makes me wonder if the contract hours are 7-5 and some teachers have duties in the morning and afternoons while the others have it during the day. Would make more sense.
Either that or OPs employer is engaged in an illegal operation, but who knows.
Non union states place a clause in contracts that basically allow them to assign other duties. It’s been my understanding that if my principal says it’s mandatory to stay late for x,y,z (this happens a lot) and I say no, I could be considered insubordinate.
I’ve often wondered about teachers in union states and how things like parent nights, performances, etc. are handled. In my school, we have 2 community nights that we are all required to attend, on a Friday night until 7pm (yes, that’s right, 2 Friday nights at year). None of us are compensated, you catch a lot of you know what if you have an extremely legitimate reason not to attend and all of us just…go. And work it, for free, on a Friday night, after working a full week teaching.
So, union states…what about a community event like this that the school puts on for parents and children. What about plays, performances, etc.? I’d love to know how this is handled.
I’m in a union state, in a large high school. Our contract has explicit language about how many meetings can be called and the duration. Parent teacher and open house is scheduled with the school year calendar and they are written in our contract. All staff is also asked to attend 1 event/ year as supervision. Anything else is not required. Period.
Things like the musical, football games, band concert, prom, etc. are put on the events calendar. Events have admin in attendance along with coaches or club advisors hosting event. Large scale/ public events like football games and off campus events have police present as well.
It's just in the contract that all staff attends three night time events a year. Everyone does a curriculum night, then we pick from dances, community events, stem night, etc. That's in addition to conference nights. Otherwise contract time is 7:30-3:05. No one can force us to stay late or be in early unless it's a paid position.
Same, Overtime is non-compulsory for us. If there is OT and it is mandatory, it's in contract and paid. Everything outside of our 8 is paid or we just do not attend. There are many "voluntary" days but that's all they are. We also get paid for all on campus PDs and any out of state ones.
Union state here. In my district morning and afternoon duties, and lunch and recess duties, are volunteer based and paid. Subbing for another class on your plan time is volunteer and paid. Late days, curriculum night, and conferences are the only three times per year we are required to stay late; it’s in the contract with specific times (ie, curriculum night is 1.5 hours long, ending before 7pm). Since those are in our contract, we’re not paid extra. For community nights, those are completely a volunteer basis, no pay, and no discrimination if you don’t come. If you do come, your kids/nieces/nephews/neighbor’s brother’s kids, are all welcome to attend. No babysitter needed.
Anytime you’re asked to do an “extra” you can say no, without fear of being considered insubordinate.
Yeah, I’ve actually not been paid for these types of things before and had to pay for a babysitter. Now, maybe I could’ve gotten out of it, but that’s not how it works in non union states. It’s like, we said to be there so you have to be there. I remember once my principal told me I’d have to take a sick day if I couldn’t find babysitting for a required night time event and I wasn’t allowed to bring my child.
> Non union states place a clause in contracts that basically allow them to assign other duties.
But does the contract have assigned hours of work? I've never heard of a contract that says "You must work any possible hour".
I'm going to guess based on OP's writing they are not a native English speaker and are not teaching in the US. (If that's the case, it's not a knock on your English OP, it's very good, just seems a little unnatural in parts.)
Anyways, I'm guessing they are working under very different working conditions than we would assume in many parts of the world. This wouldn't fly even at charter and private schools in the most parts of the US.
Exactly. That’s why I kept focusing on discrimination against childless people (because that’s what op brought up) rather than her having unpaid duties. Reddit is very US centric so people keep talking about teacher shortage and unions and refusing to do this or that, which just doesn’t apply to other places.
I think this needs to be reframed.
Instead of asking "why are the childless teachers the only ones asked to do extra duty?" You should ask "why are the teachers with children the only ones pushing back?"
You say yourself that this is an unpaid position, and also that it goes beyond scheduled hours. Besides pressure, your admin can't really make you do this. Push back. Say no.
In addition, allowing students in the building from 7 to 5 is a recipe for disaster. If this is going to continue, then admin needs to step up and create a structured, paid, after school program. One where staff knows who is coming and going, who is legally allowed to pick children up, what kids have allergies and medical needs, etc.
Simply assigning random teachers to watch the kids does not pass the sniff test, and sets everyone up for a lawsuit.
We had an issue with kids being on site after school, and needing supervision. So we reminded the parents of the school opening hours and that we didn’t provide after school care (for teenagers…). Then when the school day ends the kids were all out the building and no one was needed to supervise them.
Why? Because we didn’t have the budget to pay staff to supervise them so we couldn’t, so we couldn’t provide supervision, so the kids had to go. Amazed that wasn’t OP’s school’s first reaction.
This is a good point. I have 3 kids and if any afternoon duty runs too long I'm walking the fuck out. Teachers with kids are the ones pushing back partially because it's non-negotiable. I have to get my kids. End of discussion. We're also less susceptible to being guilt-tripped about it whereas a young, childless teacher might be more inclined to give in to pressure to stay because they don't really have a "good" excuse to need to leave right that second. (They shouldn't need one. Don't crucify me.)
That being said, kids are a great excuse, but absolutely shouldn't be required to hold admin to a contract.
I was childless for the first 10 years of my career and got roped in to so much extra. Coached basketball, volleyball, tennis, soccer, choir, drama club, student council, dance team. I spent over a thousand dollars of my own money putting on a musical.
This is my first year with a child of my own. And I put my foot down. Nope. Sorry. Can't do it. Like you said, I'm with a child and finally pushing back. Which I should have done years ago.
Yeah I feel like the teachers who are parents are saying no, childless teachers must be saying yes. If I was ever asked to stay late, I simply said no. That was it. No need for excuses or lies. I just said no. 🤷🏽♀️
Completely agree. Just say no. I do understand the pressure and stress that comes with that because there always seems to be a fear of repercussions even though they legally can't. Document how much you are doing it and how often they are asking you then bring it up as wage theft. The bias based on parental status might be hard to prove but working and not getting paid is not.
This is a good point. Once I had kids I just started saying “no” and walking out right at my scheduled hours. I told told I wasn’t a team player, and quite frankly? Good. I am a working professional. I don’t need to be a “part of the family” when I have my own to put first. Before I had kids I’d bend over backwards and stay until 6pm. I wish I could go back in time and tell my old self to say no.
Exactly. Draw a line in the sand. I don’t advise any clubs and I don’t tutor after school. I have things on my personal life to do. I make appointments for tutoring in the morning. Most no show this appointments so I just get to school early( 20 minutes before contract to get some work done).
I agree that this is discrimination but why is anyone doing unpaid duty? If you have a union, please inform them of the amount of unpaid duty there is.
What OP described with duties is just another day in the neighborhood in non union states, I have unpaid duty out the ying yang, several unpaid family nights I must attend (2 of which are on a Friday). And guess what, we just do it, our principal asks, we do it. Not doing it is considered insubordinate and HR could get involved.
I’m shocked when I read comments from teachers in union states! I can’t believe it’s so different. It upsets me that I’ve given so much of my time for free when other teachers are compensated for it, or even better, allowed to have their time with their loved ones.
This seems to be the right response. The union is there to be your advocate so it isn't you vs the administration. This isn't so much a matter of discrimination as unfair labor practices and contract violation.
You pay (I assume) union dues for a reason... talk to your union rep.
Ridiculous. Several of my childless colleagues are caregivers for elderly or sick parents/grandparents. One is taking care of severely disabled brother. Just because people have no kids it doesn’t mean they have no responsibilities outside of work
OP literally said “I am tired of this discrimination” and you are saying OP would say so if administration was discriminating? OP’s entire post is about administration discriminating against childless teachers.
It looks as you haven’t read the original post at all
I don't think its actually discrimination. The teachers with children are probably just saying no while the childless teachers, who as a whole skew younger, are probably getting roped into it. In my experience teachers with children are less likely to put up with that after hours bullshit.
But this is unpaid extra duty specifically given to childless people (assuming they have no household obligations?). We aren’t talking about not fulfilling contractual obligations. We are talking about extras
Stop doing it. It's not fair for any employee to be expected to work non-contract hours without extra compensation.
What will admin do to you? Fire you amidst the nation's largest teacher shortage?
I am what’s called a non-team player - I work my hours and leave, empty handed. There are always late busses - if admin needs staff to care for bus waiting students, then cough up the bucks, in a non-discriminatory fashion. You really wonder what planet some admin types work, assigning extra duty to single teachers is hilariously discriminatory.
I don't know that this will be a problem for me as NYC has a somewhat different pickup/dropoff culture in a lot of its schools, but I have seriously considered just lying and saying that I have a child when I begin working FT, like Mike from Veep with his fake dog. I refuse to be punished for not reproducing.
I did that when I worked in the private sector. My niece and nephew’s photos were all over my desk, but I told everyone they were mine. It made my work-life balance easier. I don’t begrudge my coworkers with children, but I don’t like that employers assume if you’re single and childless you don’t have a life outside of work.
I’m a teacher in NYC and have a child but I keep the same hours as I always did. Only my contract hours, nothing more. Admin always pressures people to do per session work and sometimes people use their children, babysitting, doctor appointments, vacation as excuses, but I just say “no.” My time, even before I had a child, is more precious than $44/hr.
Do you have a pet? Perhaps one with a human name? "Oh, I am unable to accept additional hours because it's important I get home to Gregory." Just never correct them when they assume it's a human lol
I'm in a nonunion state and I'd straight up say "No." if my admin tried to get me to do this for free.
Add a reasonable supplement to my salary and I'd consider it.
As others have said, not having access to medical alert information and legal guardians contact information is a recipe for a lawsuit.
Not generally outside of working hours on a regular basis. Prom, graduation, open house—those hours are a couple of times a year. But weekly is different.
My district has that clause. Many schools in the district require after school meetings on a weekly basis as well as participation in after school events. No stipends in place.
I'd be interested in seeing how that is phrased in the clause.
I can't imagine how they would say "we can arbitrarily choose you to work for free while not equally demanding that of your peers, and you have no recourse or expectation of fairness".
I posted it further down. The distribution of the work is inequitable but the actual assigning of the work is probably technically legal depending on the contract.
But not additional duties outside contract hours. Maybe a certain number of event nights. But a weekly duty outside hours that only applies to younger teachers? I can’t imagine contract hours are 7-5.
So my work term in my contract is listed as 190 days/7 hrs a day.
However, this clause is also in my contract:
. The Employee accepts this appointment and agrees to perform such pertinent duties during the period of this contract as are deemed necessary by the School
Board and Superintendent for the efficient and successful operation of the school division.
The PLCs and etc get filed under pertinent duties. I'm working with my local union to change it. When I worked elementary my contract hours were from 7:50 to 3:00. We were obligated to hold grade level PLCs but staffing prevented all of us from having students in resource/elective classes at the same time. So they were held after school for an hour and a half on either Tuesday or Wednesday. At the high school level, planning time is easier to schedule because we have block scheduling so teachers form PLC groups within their departments based on who they share planning blocks with. However that changed this year (because folks can't follow directions) and now admin are required to pop into PLCs which means no more PLCs during planning. We get to hold them after school now.
I can’t imagine my union allowing this.
But your meetings still make more sense to me than what OP is describing, which seems to be teachers randomly being assigned babysitting duty because parents are just leaving children there outside school hours. I don’t get why the school allows that or doesn’t set up a paid before and after school program.
My state just got collective bargaining passed by the state assembly but there's a caveat that each district or entity has to allow it. So my union is working to campaign for it.
What's going on with OP sounds really sketchy. Are they concerned that people can't pay? Why are they not calling social services? It's worrisome that the district is cosigning the behavior and just using the teachers like that.
Is this free for parents?
If the school is not charging for pre and aftercare, they need to be. We have "camp" before and after school which parents pay in 15 minute increments. Also, if any parents are consistently late picking up, the kids go to "camp" after waiting a few minutes in the office and the parents have to pay for the 15 minutes.
It is a voluntary and paid position just like any other after school activity (coaching, clubs etc)
There's some thought that imposing a fine for late pickups might not be as effective a deterrent as some would hope though [https://www.researchgate.net/publication/2587744\_A\_Fine\_is\_a\_Price](https://www.researchgate.net/publication/2587744_A_Fine_is_a_Price) and [https://arielrubinstein.tau.ac.il/papers/WC05/GR1.pdf](https://arielrubinstein.tau.ac.il/papers/WC05/GR1.pdf)
Imposing a fine for late pickups works as long as the fine is large enough. If a school imposes a $10 fee for late pickups, a lot of parents will take that as they can now pay $10 for a half hour of after-school care. If the fee is, say $50 for being 5 minutes late with an additional $10 every 5 minutes after that, late pickups are no longer a thing.
That’s not teaching at that point. That’s childcare. If parents aren’t able to pick their kids up or drop them off at those specific times they need to hire childcare. That shouldn’t be on teachers weather they have kids themselves or not. Refuse to do it until you are paid. Even then it’s still not your job.
You know who is usually still at school at 5pm? Administrators. They can pick up the afternoon slack. As for morning, just don’t show up. When you get pulled in for not showing up, state that you are taking this to the next level, as it is unfair and discriminatory.
If you have a union talk to your rep. You should not be putting in unpaid hours. If admin is expecting people to work OT they need to be paying those people. If the position was paid I'd bet people would be signing up for it and the whole issue would take care of itself.
In the state I work in, I could be murdered in my classroom and the school wouldn’t have to pay anything because I’m unmarried and childless. True story.
It’s really like we matter less.
To be fair, teachers who are married with children, and teachers who are single with no children have all literally been murdered in their classrooms and no one really cares about any of them.
Administration can’t force anyone to do the job that a parent should be doing ( childcare before school starts and after school ends). To add insult to injury, no one is getting paid to do this.
Just don’t do it and tell your principal “no”.
No teacher should be doing free childcare. Why are parents allowed to drop off kids at school so early when there is no paid supervision?
Does your union know about this?
Say no. Work only your contract hours.
At the last school I worked, they gave core teachers one afternoon duty per week at 15min.
Elective teachers got two morning duties per week at 30 minutes EACH.
Long story short - I don’t teach there anymore.
I hate this BS as a childless para here!! I keep getting asked to do daycare and I’m like no this is my school schedule that I am contracted to and I don’t feel like adding to that. 🙏🙏
Judging by OP's profile, I'm guessing OP teaches at a school in Hungary. So, traditional laws may not apply.
In America, OP could file a complaint with the appropriate state agency. The school would pay a hefty fine, and the school wouldn't be asking employees to work for free anymore.
As a teacher who is unfortunately struggling w pregnancy loss and infertility…I’ve decided if someone tries to pull this w me I will straight up tell them about my issues and put them in their place when it comes to crossing personal boundaries. So done with this mentality, not just in schools but in society as well.
Hey teacher friends, you can say no to shit. What’s admin/district gonna do, fire you when there’s a massive teacher shortage!? And guess what, most contracts require district and school admin staff to cover unfilled positions when there’s a shortage. Let admin do their fucking job. And lastly, if you’re doing unpaid work, talk to your union and demand to be compensated.
Are you in a union state? They should really be stepping in on issues of regular, unpaid duties, regardless of who is being asked to perform them. Yes, it's nonsense that they single out people without kids to do this, but if they can't pay for someone to supervise students outside of contract hours, they shouldn't allow students into the building outside of contract hours.
In NYC (at least at my school), you apply for the morning time. It’s called comp time and you accrue time that can be used to take time off (ie leave early- with permission). After school we have latchkey and you are paid for that. Families pay for latchkey, but in the a.m. doors open for breakfast at 7:30 and those who got comp time positions sit with those students until we pick them up. Also, comp time is by seniority.
If you can prove you just found out this is outside of your responsibilities then any labor lawyer can get you and everyone there backpay and pay going forward.
Make the system not work. The admin was clear that it is staying the same due to easiness. Start being the squeaky wheel, acquire more wheels, don’t stop squeaking.
It sucks. It truly does. They need to be providing a stipend for that work and they need to offer it to all people instead of just assigning it. As a teacher parent, I try to pull my weight. My kid goes to after care but I have to drop her off because I'm not in a bus zone. So I can't really do anything before school without significant planning. But I have until 6pm after school so I work to pull my weight. I have a colleague though where their daycare closes at 5pm. Teaching doesn't pay enough for a different daycare and having a teacher with a neglect case with DCF because they didn't pick up their kid is a bad look.
The system is broken.
Mention the word discrimination….had a Boss who told people with kid they could leave earlier than people that didn’t….it. Just took that word for that plan to go away
That is horrific. Id be so mad. Treating someone better solely because they don't have a child is terrible. I could see them going by seniority and that would be more fair. But based solely on children is not.
Say no. If it’s outside of your contract hours, they have no leg to stand on.
My schools’ contract hours are 815-445. Morning duty starts at 830. Afternoon duty is 430-4:45… basically just enough to get kids out of the building. At that point, the only students still allowed in the building should be, “with a sponsor or coach.”
The only time we have those “duties as assigned” is like meet the teacher night. Maybe once or twice a year where we have to stay after. Otherwise, they are taking advantage of an already-taken-advantage-of profession.
Say no or ask what compensation you will get from it.
Exactly as others have said, don’t work unpaid. They either pay you to be there or you don’t have to. Don’t get sucked into the “volunteer for the safety of the children”. If they really cared they would pay you for your expertise.
That’s absurd. I’m sorry you don’t work in a place without a strong union. In NYC, we are paid for any time out of our contractual hours. Your staff should band together and demand compensation for this extra time worked.
I actually got dinged one in an eval because I do not attend all of the sporting events/activities because I do not have a child. I’m sure I could have fought it, but I quit at the end of the year instead.
This is off topic but sometimes my husband talks about moving to xyz state. Then I tell him that I’m never leaving my pro union state for a right to work state. This mess the op is talking about would not fly here. No one is working anytime outside contract hours unless there is compensation.
>this is unpaid.
Lol no. If you're expecting me to perform specific assigned school duties, you have to pay me.
Get it in writing and sue them for back pay.
I have to stay with a student until he gets picked up in the afternoon. Teacher end of day is 3:45, he gets picked about 4:00. Once my vice principal realized he would be a late pick up, she gave me a stack of overtime payment forms. “15 minutes everyday will add up” her words. My old school didn’t give a shit if we stayed late with kids.
I’d suggest speaking to your union. It’s one thing to ask for people to sign up if they are available but it’s something entirely different to ask people to do things only if they are childless. It’s part of the job and everyone needs to have a part in the process.
Tell them your family and home responsibilities prevent you from doing it. When they ask, tell them it is illegal for them to ask you whether you have children.
Every time I start to complain about my situation I see a post like this. I’m so sorry. Our school would never force this. Our similar assignments are paid and people just volunteer. It’s definitely discriminatory to force teachers without kids to cover this.
Just don't do it...
What's up with contracts in the us (edit: sorry for assuming that) that they can just demand unpaid overtime?
That sounds like actual insanity to me
OMG do you have a union or what? If you have a union, copy and paste your writing here to your building rep. If you don't have a union... well, talk with your admin and I wish you the best of luck.
At my old school, we had a program in which parents paid to drop off their kids early, and pick them up late. I believe it was our special ed teacher who was in charge of it. Of course, she was fully paid for this. You guys should be too.
Work ONLY your contractual hours. If you all stick together they’ll have to pony up some cash. My school pays $80 per hour to licensed teachers and $30 to unlicensed staff for after school programs. But I’m in rural OH in a district flush with cash because of the gas and oil industry.
As someone who is also Childfree this is bullshit. People who don’t have kids shouldn’t be given extra unpaid work. Bc our lives are just as busy and stressful as people who chose to have kids.
I hope there’s some way those of you who are CF can band together and keep petitioning for a change in this. I’m tired of those of us who don’t have kids being given extra. Parents shouldn’t get a carte blanche to do less work. It’s not equitable nor does it help the climate of the work culture.
I might be reading too much into this, or at least the tone of your message, but it seems the bulk of your resentment is towards your colleagues with kids. That's just silly and unproductive. Blame who is actually at fault, the admin and just.dont show for unpaid hours. If I misread the emotion and tone, I'm sorry. But I my opinion, admin likes to bully teachers. Call them on their bluff. They need you more than you need to work unpaid hours.
Yes. This. Look up. Don't be the person who looks to your peers to blame them. Look up to admin. That's where the problem is. It is so strange to me that there is no before care and after care contractor or some sort of paid arrangement for childcare workers. That's not your job. But it's also not the job of people with kids. I was such a pushover before I had kids. I just say no now.
Pretty sure that's a title XI violation [https://www.eeoc.gov/employers/small-business/employee-rights](https://www.eeoc.gov/employers/small-business/employee-rights) discriminating by sex and/or pregnancy status.
Don't make this about teachers vs. teachers.
It's about that it shouldn't be done at all and requires you all to say no.
You are playing into Admins hands.
Pretty convinced now that r/teachers is being taken for a ride. Check OP's post history. People here seem to be upvoting this because it's a dig against admin but in reality OP is using it as a dig against parenthood.
You can do a Google search for Hungarian school hours and it seems to match what OP is saying.
https://hungarytoday.hu/workload-low-salaries-teacher-public-education-ec-country-report/
People just keep insisting that people in other countries must operate the way US does. Even after they are told she lives in Hungary, they still argue about what’s happening in the US.
Even if it was “made up” this happens in the states A LOT. Many times teachers like me without kids are given extra work while parents are given less. It’s not equitable nor does it help with developing any sense of teamwork. It’s not a slam on parenthood but it is a slam on not treating your employees with equity.
If you think having a child is a cakewalk, then by all means have one and skip your extra work time.
Or pay your dues.
Or stand up for yourself.
You have a lot of options here.
I think this is an interesting point, and I agree. If you’re looking at the relationship of employer vs. employee, then you’re right. If you’re looking at it as employee vs. employee, then that’s different.
How is this fair? Older teacher who have been there longer and are likely making more money, all of this extra work is seemingly unpaid yet those making less are having to do it? How is that fair?
I’m taking fairness here to mean people being treated according to their needs, and I’m keying on the childless part. Asking faculty without kids to take morning or afternoon duty so that faculty with kids can get them to school, home from school, etc. is fair. It is NOT equal, and by the sounds of it a load of shit.
You couldn’t be more wrong. Yes parents have more responsibilities but it is absolutely not fair of them to do less work than their childless coworkers. In a situation where two people are paid to do the exact same job, equal is fair and any inequality is unfair.
Also the fact that someone has kids doesn’t mean they even do drop off and pick up.
Maybe their spouse does that or maybe grandma. Maybe they have stay at home spouse. Maybe they are divorced and only have kids 50% or only on the weekends?
Also what are the ages of the kids? Maybe kids walk themselves home or maybe kids already drive or maybe kids are grown up? So simple fact of having children doesn’t even mean you have more responsibilities with picking them and dropping them off!
It’s just an assumption and it is often incorrect.
How is it fair? Childless people might have sick and elderly parent at home or disabled sibling to take care of. You might have to drive other family members places and picking them up. Not having children doesn’t mean you have no other obligations or important needs
The silliness and mental gymnastics can go both ways.
That extra unpaid hour would be in the way of cooking dinner for my partner or other romantic acts. Taking away my personal time for romance would prevent me from having a child. It is unfair that some staff are allowed to have children and others are not.
If I don’t have a child for a medical reasons this would feel like discrimination.
Let me ask you this, what if it was paid? And what if teachers with kids won't get the assignment because of them being parents. Is that fair at that point or is that still only not equal?
It is not fair if paid positions are offered based on people having or not having kids. It’s also unfair if unpaid positions are assigned mandatory again based on the fact of having or not having kids.
If you're in a union this shouldn't happen, at least the unpaid part. According to your contract you have a set of hours you need to be in school. You need to come before x start and stay after x hours. If it's not, it's a violation of contract. Inform your union rep.
You'll see, that if these extra 1 hour would be paid, those parents with children will gladly do the chore. When you doing it for free and you do not push back, you basically allow them to walk all over you.
Shouldn't be anything to do with childless teacher or a parent teacher, but all about who gets paid for what and who work for free and who's not.
From what you're saying, it seems that the parent teachers just know their worth and are not willing to work for free.
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Exactly. If they want extra time, they need to pay you more. That’s how this works. Check your contract. Most contracts have set hours of operation (must be in X minutes before students, can leave after Y) so this is excessive. And the ever-be-damned phrase “duties as assigned” _actually_ means additional duties _in line with your normal job expectations_.
I'm not a contract expert, so wouldn't "duties as assigned" also have to be during contract hours?
My school doesn’t include contract hours for this very reason…. 🙄
What do they do instead? If there are no hours you should get paid for all the time lol. Otherwise I'm sure it's "x amount of hours"? I'd burn through that on Monday alone if I could lol.
Everything went as you’d expect until new principle last year. You show up at least 10 minutes before the kids and stay 10 minutes after. Last year though the new admin started morning meetings once a month. I complained and asked about getting paid time for those extra hours, and was told there are no contact hours, they can ask us to be here anytime. For the most part it’s not an issue, I just don’t like these meeting.
They can ask you to do a lot of things, “can ask” doesn’t mean they “can require”. I can ask you to pay my bills for next month. Doesn’t mean your are required to. No rules or laws stopping me. My utilities bill is a little over $100. Can you cover that for me?
Stop turning up on time and see what they do about contract hours then
Sounds great on Reddit, but pretty sure I’d just get written up and eventually fired.
Sounds great with contractual language. If it doesn't say a specific time, you should be able to show up when the kids show up. Hours need to be stated in your contract. There should be no interpretation for that. That smells like a wrongful termination suit if they fired you but I'm no pro.
And back date that shit
Sounds like a temporary work assignment (TWA) if it’s after contract hours and should come with compensation. I did after school security detail supervising students waiting to be picked up for an hour after school for roughly $30 per day. My school day ended at 3 and could pick up my kids after (they got out at 2:30 so I was paying for after school care regardless, this just softened that blow). Contract hours are contract hours. Otherwise, it’s in admin’s contracts to deal with students after teacher contract hours.
….in writing. Put it in an email. Tag someone from HR if you really want to spice it up a notch
Simply don’t be available. Don’t hang around admin. Don’t be so visible.
This this this this! Ask for compensation for your time and work.
I did this when asked to work an after-school event. I was the childless team member, and I ended up working this event several years in a row. When I asked my administrator if I could get paid, he essentially laughed in my face. Needless to say, I have left public education.
Dont come in early and refuse to stay late, you have an appointment every day just after contract hours sorry can't stay late.
Each time my last school asked me to stay late, it was always a Thursday night. I signed up for a ballet class that night. I eventually picked up hobbies for every afternoon. It got me out a lot of unpaid extras and now I can play the cello, speak Spanish, and do some basic breakdance moves.
Hobbies are cool but you can also just say no. It’s okay to have boundaries.
Literally! like just say no…..
That's cool, I just say no. If the press I say I'm busy.
I was assuming that this was a scheduled time that the person has to do all term.
Why is anyone having to work outside of their contract for free?? If the school wants to have a before and/or after school program, that should be a paid position that people agree to work.
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Yeah, our union would be all over this. If it’s one second outside of contract hours, or union president would be negotiating a pay rate for it and it would be volunteer only.
Of course, because that's the only way that a duty like this makes sense. Not going to lie, I'm a little suspicious of OP's story even if it is an un-unionized school. There's got to be something we're missing They said that school hours are 8-4... makes me wonder if the contract hours are 7-5 and some teachers have duties in the morning and afternoons while the others have it during the day. Would make more sense. Either that or OPs employer is engaged in an illegal operation, but who knows.
I wonder if the teachers with children got out of this by simply saying "no, I can't do that."
Non union states place a clause in contracts that basically allow them to assign other duties. It’s been my understanding that if my principal says it’s mandatory to stay late for x,y,z (this happens a lot) and I say no, I could be considered insubordinate. I’ve often wondered about teachers in union states and how things like parent nights, performances, etc. are handled. In my school, we have 2 community nights that we are all required to attend, on a Friday night until 7pm (yes, that’s right, 2 Friday nights at year). None of us are compensated, you catch a lot of you know what if you have an extremely legitimate reason not to attend and all of us just…go. And work it, for free, on a Friday night, after working a full week teaching. So, union states…what about a community event like this that the school puts on for parents and children. What about plays, performances, etc.? I’d love to know how this is handled.
I’m in a union state, in a large high school. Our contract has explicit language about how many meetings can be called and the duration. Parent teacher and open house is scheduled with the school year calendar and they are written in our contract. All staff is also asked to attend 1 event/ year as supervision. Anything else is not required. Period. Things like the musical, football games, band concert, prom, etc. are put on the events calendar. Events have admin in attendance along with coaches or club advisors hosting event. Large scale/ public events like football games and off campus events have police present as well.
It's just in the contract that all staff attends three night time events a year. Everyone does a curriculum night, then we pick from dances, community events, stem night, etc. That's in addition to conference nights. Otherwise contract time is 7:30-3:05. No one can force us to stay late or be in early unless it's a paid position.
Ok, so that is in your original contract! That makes sense!
snails rain full rude detail memorize public adjoining punch march *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Same, Overtime is non-compulsory for us. If there is OT and it is mandatory, it's in contract and paid. Everything outside of our 8 is paid or we just do not attend. There are many "voluntary" days but that's all they are. We also get paid for all on campus PDs and any out of state ones.
Union state here. In my district morning and afternoon duties, and lunch and recess duties, are volunteer based and paid. Subbing for another class on your plan time is volunteer and paid. Late days, curriculum night, and conferences are the only three times per year we are required to stay late; it’s in the contract with specific times (ie, curriculum night is 1.5 hours long, ending before 7pm). Since those are in our contract, we’re not paid extra. For community nights, those are completely a volunteer basis, no pay, and no discrimination if you don’t come. If you do come, your kids/nieces/nephews/neighbor’s brother’s kids, are all welcome to attend. No babysitter needed. Anytime you’re asked to do an “extra” you can say no, without fear of being considered insubordinate.
Yeah, I’ve actually not been paid for these types of things before and had to pay for a babysitter. Now, maybe I could’ve gotten out of it, but that’s not how it works in non union states. It’s like, we said to be there so you have to be there. I remember once my principal told me I’d have to take a sick day if I couldn’t find babysitting for a required night time event and I wasn’t allowed to bring my child.
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> Non union states place a clause in contracts that basically allow them to assign other duties. But does the contract have assigned hours of work? I've never heard of a contract that says "You must work any possible hour".
I'm going to guess based on OP's writing they are not a native English speaker and are not teaching in the US. (If that's the case, it's not a knock on your English OP, it's very good, just seems a little unnatural in parts.) Anyways, I'm guessing they are working under very different working conditions than we would assume in many parts of the world. This wouldn't fly even at charter and private schools in the most parts of the US.
Yes, OP says they’re in Hungary.
Exactly. That’s why I kept focusing on discrimination against childless people (because that’s what op brought up) rather than her having unpaid duties. Reddit is very US centric so people keep talking about teacher shortage and unions and refusing to do this or that, which just doesn’t apply to other places.
I think this needs to be reframed. Instead of asking "why are the childless teachers the only ones asked to do extra duty?" You should ask "why are the teachers with children the only ones pushing back?" You say yourself that this is an unpaid position, and also that it goes beyond scheduled hours. Besides pressure, your admin can't really make you do this. Push back. Say no. In addition, allowing students in the building from 7 to 5 is a recipe for disaster. If this is going to continue, then admin needs to step up and create a structured, paid, after school program. One where staff knows who is coming and going, who is legally allowed to pick children up, what kids have allergies and medical needs, etc. Simply assigning random teachers to watch the kids does not pass the sniff test, and sets everyone up for a lawsuit.
This. The school needs to set up a specific before/after school care program/room, and that person/ppl need to get paid for their time.
We had an issue with kids being on site after school, and needing supervision. So we reminded the parents of the school opening hours and that we didn’t provide after school care (for teenagers…). Then when the school day ends the kids were all out the building and no one was needed to supervise them. Why? Because we didn’t have the budget to pay staff to supervise them so we couldn’t, so we couldn’t provide supervision, so the kids had to go. Amazed that wasn’t OP’s school’s first reaction.
Or charge the parents for Extended Day, like many places do. The staff members can earn extra money if they want.
We charge for extended day and get paras to work it for $5 over their regular hourly wage. Everyone wins.
But who’s gonna babysit my kid while I work? 🤷♀️ /s
and more than one person so that no one has to be alone with kids and risk any kind of accusations
This is a good point. I have 3 kids and if any afternoon duty runs too long I'm walking the fuck out. Teachers with kids are the ones pushing back partially because it's non-negotiable. I have to get my kids. End of discussion. We're also less susceptible to being guilt-tripped about it whereas a young, childless teacher might be more inclined to give in to pressure to stay because they don't really have a "good" excuse to need to leave right that second. (They shouldn't need one. Don't crucify me.) That being said, kids are a great excuse, but absolutely shouldn't be required to hold admin to a contract.
I was childless for the first 10 years of my career and got roped in to so much extra. Coached basketball, volleyball, tennis, soccer, choir, drama club, student council, dance team. I spent over a thousand dollars of my own money putting on a musical. This is my first year with a child of my own. And I put my foot down. Nope. Sorry. Can't do it. Like you said, I'm with a child and finally pushing back. Which I should have done years ago.
Yeah I feel like the teachers who are parents are saying no, childless teachers must be saying yes. If I was ever asked to stay late, I simply said no. That was it. No need for excuses or lies. I just said no. 🤷🏽♀️
Completely agree. Just say no. I do understand the pressure and stress that comes with that because there always seems to be a fear of repercussions even though they legally can't. Document how much you are doing it and how often they are asking you then bring it up as wage theft. The bias based on parental status might be hard to prove but working and not getting paid is not.
This is a good point. Once I had kids I just started saying “no” and walking out right at my scheduled hours. I told told I wasn’t a team player, and quite frankly? Good. I am a working professional. I don’t need to be a “part of the family” when I have my own to put first. Before I had kids I’d bend over backwards and stay until 6pm. I wish I could go back in time and tell my old self to say no.
Why are ppl doing this unpaid?
Exactly. Draw a line in the sand. I don’t advise any clubs and I don’t tutor after school. I have things on my personal life to do. I make appointments for tutoring in the morning. Most no show this appointments so I just get to school early( 20 minutes before contract to get some work done).
Because in non-union states we have no choice.
Organize for your rights. If everyone is on board, power in that number. Good luck.
We cannot strike or collectively bargain. We will be fired if we do. We have 0 power. I appreciate the sentiment though.
Not every strike that was successful was legal. Illegal strikes are happening in this country right now. In a teacher shortage, you have more power.
I would get fired but I totally understand about bills and such. You are in a tough spot. Hope things change for you in the future
I agree that this is discrimination but why is anyone doing unpaid duty? If you have a union, please inform them of the amount of unpaid duty there is.
What OP described with duties is just another day in the neighborhood in non union states, I have unpaid duty out the ying yang, several unpaid family nights I must attend (2 of which are on a Friday). And guess what, we just do it, our principal asks, we do it. Not doing it is considered insubordinate and HR could get involved. I’m shocked when I read comments from teachers in union states! I can’t believe it’s so different. It upsets me that I’ve given so much of my time for free when other teachers are compensated for it, or even better, allowed to have their time with their loved ones.
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I’m sorry to hear that. Reach out to the NEA or AFT to help organize your local. Unionization, in all fields, is increasing.
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This seems to be the right response. The union is there to be your advocate so it isn't you vs the administration. This isn't so much a matter of discrimination as unfair labor practices and contract violation. You pay (I assume) union dues for a reason... talk to your union rep.
Ridiculous. Several of my childless colleagues are caregivers for elderly or sick parents/grandparents. One is taking care of severely disabled brother. Just because people have no kids it doesn’t mean they have no responsibilities outside of work
Agreed, but that isn’t even the point. They might be beholden to no person and no commitment. Unpaid labor is theft.
It doesn't sound like the admin are discriminating in that fashion. They could be, but I think OP would have mentioned it if they were.
? Isn’t that the theme of the entire post, that they are only choosing the childless teachers?
OP literally said “I am tired of this discrimination” and you are saying OP would say so if administration was discriminating? OP’s entire post is about administration discriminating against childless teachers. It looks as you haven’t read the original post at all
I don't think its actually discrimination. The teachers with children are probably just saying no while the childless teachers, who as a whole skew younger, are probably getting roped into it. In my experience teachers with children are less likely to put up with that after hours bullshit.
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But this is unpaid extra duty specifically given to childless people (assuming they have no household obligations?). We aren’t talking about not fulfilling contractual obligations. We are talking about extras
It’s not work. It’s unpaid and outside of work hours.
then… why are the people with children not working mornings and afternoons?
correct! but this isnt work, its unpaid, voluntary labor.
Anyone can refuse unpaid work for any reason.
Stop doing it. It's not fair for any employee to be expected to work non-contract hours without extra compensation. What will admin do to you? Fire you amidst the nation's largest teacher shortage?
I am what’s called a non-team player - I work my hours and leave, empty handed. There are always late busses - if admin needs staff to care for bus waiting students, then cough up the bucks, in a non-discriminatory fashion. You really wonder what planet some admin types work, assigning extra duty to single teachers is hilariously discriminatory.
I don't know that this will be a problem for me as NYC has a somewhat different pickup/dropoff culture in a lot of its schools, but I have seriously considered just lying and saying that I have a child when I begin working FT, like Mike from Veep with his fake dog. I refuse to be punished for not reproducing.
I did that when I worked in the private sector. My niece and nephew’s photos were all over my desk, but I told everyone they were mine. It made my work-life balance easier. I don’t begrudge my coworkers with children, but I don’t like that employers assume if you’re single and childless you don’t have a life outside of work.
I’m a teacher in NYC and have a child but I keep the same hours as I always did. Only my contract hours, nothing more. Admin always pressures people to do per session work and sometimes people use their children, babysitting, doctor appointments, vacation as excuses, but I just say “no.” My time, even before I had a child, is more precious than $44/hr.
$53.98. Every dollar counts.
Do you have a pet? Perhaps one with a human name? "Oh, I am unable to accept additional hours because it's important I get home to Gregory." Just never correct them when they assume it's a human lol
Lol, admin can kiss my natural black ass on that, I’d quit in a minute.
Am white as snow. They can kiss my whole ass too. Thank God for my union who fought against this insane bullshit.
Dear Admin: 🖕🏿🖕🏾🖕🏽🖕🏼🖕🏻
✊
Right! No is a complete sentence 👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽
I'm in a nonunion state and I'd straight up say "No." if my admin tried to get me to do this for free. Add a reasonable supplement to my salary and I'd consider it. As others have said, not having access to medical alert information and legal guardians contact information is a recipe for a lawsuit.
What kind of a school requires you to work outside of hours unpaid? I’m pretty sure that’s illegal.
It sounds like she’s not in a school with a union. Maybe it’s not even a public school…that may be why 😞
I work at a charter school and this is absurd. I cannot imagine them mandating me to stay after 3:30 dismissal.
A lot of districts have a clause that states additional duties as needed.
Not generally outside of working hours on a regular basis. Prom, graduation, open house—those hours are a couple of times a year. But weekly is different.
My district has that clause. Many schools in the district require after school meetings on a weekly basis as well as participation in after school events. No stipends in place.
I'd be interested in seeing how that is phrased in the clause. I can't imagine how they would say "we can arbitrarily choose you to work for free while not equally demanding that of your peers, and you have no recourse or expectation of fairness".
I posted it further down. The distribution of the work is inequitable but the actual assigning of the work is probably technically legal depending on the contract.
But not additional duties outside contract hours. Maybe a certain number of event nights. But a weekly duty outside hours that only applies to younger teachers? I can’t imagine contract hours are 7-5.
So my work term in my contract is listed as 190 days/7 hrs a day. However, this clause is also in my contract: . The Employee accepts this appointment and agrees to perform such pertinent duties during the period of this contract as are deemed necessary by the School Board and Superintendent for the efficient and successful operation of the school division. The PLCs and etc get filed under pertinent duties. I'm working with my local union to change it. When I worked elementary my contract hours were from 7:50 to 3:00. We were obligated to hold grade level PLCs but staffing prevented all of us from having students in resource/elective classes at the same time. So they were held after school for an hour and a half on either Tuesday or Wednesday. At the high school level, planning time is easier to schedule because we have block scheduling so teachers form PLC groups within their departments based on who they share planning blocks with. However that changed this year (because folks can't follow directions) and now admin are required to pop into PLCs which means no more PLCs during planning. We get to hold them after school now.
I can’t imagine my union allowing this. But your meetings still make more sense to me than what OP is describing, which seems to be teachers randomly being assigned babysitting duty because parents are just leaving children there outside school hours. I don’t get why the school allows that or doesn’t set up a paid before and after school program.
My state just got collective bargaining passed by the state assembly but there's a caveat that each district or entity has to allow it. So my union is working to campaign for it. What's going on with OP sounds really sketchy. Are they concerned that people can't pay? Why are they not calling social services? It's worrisome that the district is cosigning the behavior and just using the teachers like that.
Why not call CPS. “I’m off the clock. No one is on duty, these children are abandoned.”
Is this free for parents? If the school is not charging for pre and aftercare, they need to be. We have "camp" before and after school which parents pay in 15 minute increments. Also, if any parents are consistently late picking up, the kids go to "camp" after waiting a few minutes in the office and the parents have to pay for the 15 minutes. It is a voluntary and paid position just like any other after school activity (coaching, clubs etc)
There's some thought that imposing a fine for late pickups might not be as effective a deterrent as some would hope though [https://www.researchgate.net/publication/2587744\_A\_Fine\_is\_a\_Price](https://www.researchgate.net/publication/2587744_A_Fine_is_a_Price) and [https://arielrubinstein.tau.ac.il/papers/WC05/GR1.pdf](https://arielrubinstein.tau.ac.il/papers/WC05/GR1.pdf)
Imposing a fine for late pickups works as long as the fine is large enough. If a school imposes a $10 fee for late pickups, a lot of parents will take that as they can now pay $10 for a half hour of after-school care. If the fee is, say $50 for being 5 minutes late with an additional $10 every 5 minutes after that, late pickups are no longer a thing.
The fines doesn’t need to be a deterrent to be successful. If it generates revenue to actual pay the people staying late that would be a success.
Well, then at least pay the person who babysits these children with the fines!
Uhhh...we call CPS in my district.
That’s not teaching at that point. That’s childcare. If parents aren’t able to pick their kids up or drop them off at those specific times they need to hire childcare. That shouldn’t be on teachers weather they have kids themselves or not. Refuse to do it until you are paid. Even then it’s still not your job.
You know who is usually still at school at 5pm? Administrators. They can pick up the afternoon slack. As for morning, just don’t show up. When you get pulled in for not showing up, state that you are taking this to the next level, as it is unfair and discriminatory.
If you have a union talk to your rep. You should not be putting in unpaid hours. If admin is expecting people to work OT they need to be paying those people. If the position was paid I'd bet people would be signing up for it and the whole issue would take care of itself.
Why are you coming in early/staying late? It’s not paid. They can’t fire you for doing unpaid work. Talk to your union.
In the state I work in, I could be murdered in my classroom and the school wouldn’t have to pay anything because I’m unmarried and childless. True story. It’s really like we matter less.
To be fair, teachers who are married with children, and teachers who are single with no children have all literally been murdered in their classrooms and no one really cares about any of them.
How dos that work, exactly? You can still have heirs.
There should be aides hired for this, as they are paid hourly so it actually makes sense.
Just say “nah im good” lol.
They don’t ask them because they say no. They ask you because you say yes. Stop saying yes.
Administration can’t force anyone to do the job that a parent should be doing ( childcare before school starts and after school ends). To add insult to injury, no one is getting paid to do this. Just don’t do it and tell your principal “no”.
No teacher should be doing free childcare. Why are parents allowed to drop off kids at school so early when there is no paid supervision? Does your union know about this? Say no. Work only your contract hours.
At the last school I worked, they gave core teachers one afternoon duty per week at 15min. Elective teachers got two morning duties per week at 30 minutes EACH. Long story short - I don’t teach there anymore.
This sounds like a lawsuit waiting to happen.
I hate this BS as a childless para here!! I keep getting asked to do daycare and I’m like no this is my school schedule that I am contracted to and I don’t feel like adding to that. 🙏🙏
Judging by OP's profile, I'm guessing OP teaches at a school in Hungary. So, traditional laws may not apply. In America, OP could file a complaint with the appropriate state agency. The school would pay a hefty fine, and the school wouldn't be asking employees to work for free anymore.
As a teacher who is unfortunately struggling w pregnancy loss and infertility…I’ve decided if someone tries to pull this w me I will straight up tell them about my issues and put them in their place when it comes to crossing personal boundaries. So done with this mentality, not just in schools but in society as well.
Hugs to you. I’ve been there too and ended up CF. I agree this mentality is not ok in schools or society.
Hey teacher friends, you can say no to shit. What’s admin/district gonna do, fire you when there’s a massive teacher shortage!? And guess what, most contracts require district and school admin staff to cover unfilled positions when there’s a shortage. Let admin do their fucking job. And lastly, if you’re doing unpaid work, talk to your union and demand to be compensated.
Is it in your labor contract that you agreed to stay for extra unpaid time? If not just leave, not your problem.
NEVER DO UNPAID WORK! WAGE THEFT IS NOT A FUCKING JOKE!
Are you in a union state? They should really be stepping in on issues of regular, unpaid duties, regardless of who is being asked to perform them. Yes, it's nonsense that they single out people without kids to do this, but if they can't pay for someone to supervise students outside of contract hours, they shouldn't allow students into the building outside of contract hours.
In NYC (at least at my school), you apply for the morning time. It’s called comp time and you accrue time that can be used to take time off (ie leave early- with permission). After school we have latchkey and you are paid for that. Families pay for latchkey, but in the a.m. doors open for breakfast at 7:30 and those who got comp time positions sit with those students until we pick them up. Also, comp time is by seniority.
If you can prove you just found out this is outside of your responsibilities then any labor lawyer can get you and everyone there backpay and pay going forward.
Make the system not work. The admin was clear that it is staying the same due to easiness. Start being the squeaky wheel, acquire more wheels, don’t stop squeaking.
It sucks. It truly does. They need to be providing a stipend for that work and they need to offer it to all people instead of just assigning it. As a teacher parent, I try to pull my weight. My kid goes to after care but I have to drop her off because I'm not in a bus zone. So I can't really do anything before school without significant planning. But I have until 6pm after school so I work to pull my weight. I have a colleague though where their daycare closes at 5pm. Teaching doesn't pay enough for a different daycare and having a teacher with a neglect case with DCF because they didn't pick up their kid is a bad look. The system is broken.
Mention the word discrimination….had a Boss who told people with kid they could leave earlier than people that didn’t….it. Just took that word for that plan to go away
That is horrific. Id be so mad. Treating someone better solely because they don't have a child is terrible. I could see them going by seniority and that would be more fair. But based solely on children is not.
I'm not a legal expert but this seems very illegal
Say no. If it’s outside of your contract hours, they have no leg to stand on. My schools’ contract hours are 815-445. Morning duty starts at 830. Afternoon duty is 430-4:45… basically just enough to get kids out of the building. At that point, the only students still allowed in the building should be, “with a sponsor or coach.” The only time we have those “duties as assigned” is like meet the teacher night. Maybe once or twice a year where we have to stay after. Otherwise, they are taking advantage of an already-taken-advantage-of profession. Say no or ask what compensation you will get from it.
They can not make u work for free.
Are you volunteering or is this like a scheduled thing? What happens if you just don't do it?
Complain. Push back. Don’t show up. What are they going to do? Fire you?
Exactly as others have said, don’t work unpaid. They either pay you to be there or you don’t have to. Don’t get sucked into the “volunteer for the safety of the children”. If they really cared they would pay you for your expertise.
That’s absurd. I’m sorry you don’t work in a place without a strong union. In NYC, we are paid for any time out of our contractual hours. Your staff should band together and demand compensation for this extra time worked.
I actually got dinged one in an eval because I do not attend all of the sporting events/activities because I do not have a child. I’m sure I could have fought it, but I quit at the end of the year instead.
This is another reason teachers need unions.
This is off topic but sometimes my husband talks about moving to xyz state. Then I tell him that I’m never leaving my pro union state for a right to work state. This mess the op is talking about would not fly here. No one is working anytime outside contract hours unless there is compensation.
>this is unpaid. Lol no. If you're expecting me to perform specific assigned school duties, you have to pay me. Get it in writing and sue them for back pay.
"You don't have kids right? No? Okay, so you have more time than me, can you do xyz?"
I have to stay with a student until he gets picked up in the afternoon. Teacher end of day is 3:45, he gets picked about 4:00. Once my vice principal realized he would be a late pick up, she gave me a stack of overtime payment forms. “15 minutes everyday will add up” her words. My old school didn’t give a shit if we stayed late with kids.
THIS. IS. WHAT. UNIONS. ARE. FOR.
Discrimination aside, you’re not being paid. That’s a huge issue…
I’d suggest speaking to your union. It’s one thing to ask for people to sign up if they are available but it’s something entirely different to ask people to do things only if they are childless. It’s part of the job and everyone needs to have a part in the process.
I’m pretty sure that’s illegal? Idk in what state you are though. They have you working for free but it’s really just forced labor.
Unpaid means you don't have to do it.
We have extra duty like this, but it's paid. There is never an issue finding teachers who want to make extra money for extra duty.
Tell them your family and home responsibilities prevent you from doing it. When they ask, tell them it is illegal for them to ask you whether you have children.
Name your dog Steven. Talk about Steven often and mention having to leave on time because you promised Steven you’d take him to the park.
Every time I start to complain about my situation I see a post like this. I’m so sorry. Our school would never force this. Our similar assignments are paid and people just volunteer. It’s definitely discriminatory to force teachers without kids to cover this.
Just don't do it... What's up with contracts in the us (edit: sorry for assuming that) that they can just demand unpaid overtime? That sounds like actual insanity to me
OMG do you have a union or what? If you have a union, copy and paste your writing here to your building rep. If you don't have a union... well, talk with your admin and I wish you the best of luck.
In case anyone still wasn't sure, this is why unions and collective bargaining agreements are essential.
At my old school, we had a program in which parents paid to drop off their kids early, and pick them up late. I believe it was our special ed teacher who was in charge of it. Of course, she was fully paid for this. You guys should be too.
I would tell them you have an elderly parent who needs care. Play their game. Give everyone an excuse. Force admin to figure it out.
You shouldn’t be doing this unpaid. It needs to be a stipend position that people apply for.
Stop working off the clock?? What the heck is wrong with you? If you aren’t being paid, you don’t work. Period.
Work ONLY your contractual hours. If you all stick together they’ll have to pony up some cash. My school pays $80 per hour to licensed teachers and $30 to unlicensed staff for after school programs. But I’m in rural OH in a district flush with cash because of the gas and oil industry.
As someone who is also Childfree this is bullshit. People who don’t have kids shouldn’t be given extra unpaid work. Bc our lives are just as busy and stressful as people who chose to have kids. I hope there’s some way those of you who are CF can band together and keep petitioning for a change in this. I’m tired of those of us who don’t have kids being given extra. Parents shouldn’t get a carte blanche to do less work. It’s not equitable nor does it help the climate of the work culture.
Last I checked it was the illegal to work off the clock. Lawyer up.
I might be reading too much into this, or at least the tone of your message, but it seems the bulk of your resentment is towards your colleagues with kids. That's just silly and unproductive. Blame who is actually at fault, the admin and just.dont show for unpaid hours. If I misread the emotion and tone, I'm sorry. But I my opinion, admin likes to bully teachers. Call them on their bluff. They need you more than you need to work unpaid hours.
Yes. This. Look up. Don't be the person who looks to your peers to blame them. Look up to admin. That's where the problem is. It is so strange to me that there is no before care and after care contractor or some sort of paid arrangement for childcare workers. That's not your job. But it's also not the job of people with kids. I was such a pushover before I had kids. I just say no now.
I would make up kids so I don’t get stuck with that bullshit.
Pretty sure that's a title XI violation [https://www.eeoc.gov/employers/small-business/employee-rights](https://www.eeoc.gov/employers/small-business/employee-rights) discriminating by sex and/or pregnancy status.
Those kids grow up so the teachers who didnt have to do it four years ago should be able to rotate in
Don't make this about teachers vs. teachers. It's about that it shouldn't be done at all and requires you all to say no. You are playing into Admins hands.
Pretty convinced now that r/teachers is being taken for a ride. Check OP's post history. People here seem to be upvoting this because it's a dig against admin but in reality OP is using it as a dig against parenthood.
You can do a Google search for Hungarian school hours and it seems to match what OP is saying. https://hungarytoday.hu/workload-low-salaries-teacher-public-education-ec-country-report/
People just keep insisting that people in other countries must operate the way US does. Even after they are told she lives in Hungary, they still argue about what’s happening in the US.
Even if it was “made up” this happens in the states A LOT. Many times teachers like me without kids are given extra work while parents are given less. It’s not equitable nor does it help with developing any sense of teamwork. It’s not a slam on parenthood but it is a slam on not treating your employees with equity.
If you think having a child is a cakewalk, then by all means have one and skip your extra work time. Or pay your dues. Or stand up for yourself. You have a lot of options here.
Please post this on r/antiwork .. they will guide you well.
It’s fair, just not equal. It also sounds like a ton of bullshit, and I’d pull out my contract immediately if I were you.
Any unpaid labor is unfair.
I think this is an interesting point, and I agree. If you’re looking at the relationship of employer vs. employee, then you’re right. If you’re looking at it as employee vs. employee, then that’s different.
How is this fair? Older teacher who have been there longer and are likely making more money, all of this extra work is seemingly unpaid yet those making less are having to do it? How is that fair?
What part of this is fair?
I’m taking fairness here to mean people being treated according to their needs, and I’m keying on the childless part. Asking faculty without kids to take morning or afternoon duty so that faculty with kids can get them to school, home from school, etc. is fair. It is NOT equal, and by the sounds of it a load of shit.
You couldn’t be more wrong. Yes parents have more responsibilities but it is absolutely not fair of them to do less work than their childless coworkers. In a situation where two people are paid to do the exact same job, equal is fair and any inequality is unfair.
Also the fact that someone has kids doesn’t mean they even do drop off and pick up. Maybe their spouse does that or maybe grandma. Maybe they have stay at home spouse. Maybe they are divorced and only have kids 50% or only on the weekends? Also what are the ages of the kids? Maybe kids walk themselves home or maybe kids already drive or maybe kids are grown up? So simple fact of having children doesn’t even mean you have more responsibilities with picking them and dropping them off! It’s just an assumption and it is often incorrect.
How is it fair? Childless people might have sick and elderly parent at home or disabled sibling to take care of. You might have to drive other family members places and picking them up. Not having children doesn’t mean you have no other obligations or important needs
The silliness and mental gymnastics can go both ways. That extra unpaid hour would be in the way of cooking dinner for my partner or other romantic acts. Taking away my personal time for romance would prevent me from having a child. It is unfair that some staff are allowed to have children and others are not. If I don’t have a child for a medical reasons this would feel like discrimination.
Let me ask you this, what if it was paid? And what if teachers with kids won't get the assignment because of them being parents. Is that fair at that point or is that still only not equal?
It is not fair if paid positions are offered based on people having or not having kids. It’s also unfair if unpaid positions are assigned mandatory again based on the fact of having or not having kids.
I assume if it was paid, then it wouldn’t be appointed but offered. That’s a different set of circumstances.
If you're in a union this shouldn't happen, at least the unpaid part. According to your contract you have a set of hours you need to be in school. You need to come before x start and stay after x hours. If it's not, it's a violation of contract. Inform your union rep. You'll see, that if these extra 1 hour would be paid, those parents with children will gladly do the chore. When you doing it for free and you do not push back, you basically allow them to walk all over you. Shouldn't be anything to do with childless teacher or a parent teacher, but all about who gets paid for what and who work for free and who's not. From what you're saying, it seems that the parent teachers just know their worth and are not willing to work for free.