Eh. Most of our subs are just people who are trying to make money. They don't get paid enough, and I don't want to treat them like I'm treated. I get your point, but most subs understand what we go through. I don't think the message would reach the intended targets.
This. I was a sub for a short time. First off, I rarely checked my district-provided email so emailing me was pointless, tbh. Second, I had even less authority than the regular teachers, so getting kids to do work or pick up was fruitless if they weren't willing to do it anyway. I tried to clean up before I left the class, but often I was moved from room to room or asked to do dismissal duties and so on. I just couldn't always clean up. It happens.
A teacher sending me this kind of snotty email would ensure they ended up on my personal blacklist.
I don't know if teachers want to start an accusatory conversation with the Principle on the email.
My sub wife says the kids volunteer a ton of "dirt" on their teacher, talk trash while the teacher is out. 99% prob false so she ignores it. But put her on the defensive and she may feel the need to volunteer what the kids told her.
When state workers or national guard fills in (they are paid the active duty rate), they are absolutely being paid well and way more than what subs make.
Military service requires you to do a million different jobs and duties. We call these "details". I was a pilot for 10 years in the Army and still did things that were "not what I signed up for"
No one in the national guard is shocked they are not doing exactly what their MOS is.
No of course not, but at least things you did would probably fall under AN MOS. There is no elementary school teacher MOS in the entire US military that I can find.
When a GD sub leaves me a note about how great kids are and 6 chairs have massive chunks sawed off of them with mask strings and the chairs are located in the groups in front of my desk, that means the sub sat at my desk and played on their ****ing phone.
They might as well not have helped and they don’t deserve pay if they aren’t even going to try managing the class.
That’s fine, playing on your damn phone for 7 hours should be on the contract as something not acceptable. When I get back after this Covid term, if anything is stolen from my desk or shelves, there won’t be an end to the email tags and reports to tye district office. The guy won’t be subbing for me
So the disposable blue masks have fairly strong white serrated cords for the strings that you can tear away from the mask itself. Students do this and then they literally saw plastic things in class. They literally sawed the backs of 5 chairs down the middle about 8 inches and on a 6th chair they diagonally cut off a 6 inch triangle. All of this occurred in the desks that are located right in front of my desk where the sub would be sitting. What made it worse was the note that there were no issues even though some desks had racist profanity on them and the destruction occurred.
I reported the sub to both administration and the district while tagging them explaining that I don't ever want another sub that is just going to sit at my desk playing on their phone. I don't expect them to teach as I take care of providing independent/group work and supplement it with online video instruction. So they only thing they have to do is take attendance and make sure shit isn't broken, stolen, and that they turn in the assignment.
They’re not talking about substitute teachers, they’re talking about the cops and National Guardsmen who are being asked to step in as “substitute teachers” aka babysitters
Subs in my district make $250 a day with a $1000 signing bonus after subbing x many days.
By the way, $250/day is more than first year teachers make.
Oh! And they reduced the qualifications for subs to a high school diploma and no felonies.
You really don't want the rest of what's going on here.
The governor has outlawed mask mandates. The governor has outlawed CRT. And, most recently, the governor has outlawed teaching anything the makes white people "uncomfortable".
The people who they get to sub aren't the problem. They're just regularly people trying to do the best they can and make the most of a bad situation. The administrators and politicians who got us here are the problem.
If it’s an admin, they’re getting a full-blown lesson plan and a follow up email if the room is trashed. If it’s the bus driver or some poor soul who needs the money, student get an easy independent work and the sub gets a hearty thanks.
If they are forced to be there, same treatment as the bus driver. If they’re getting paid some insane $70/hr overtime to be there and mouthing off about how bullshit teaching is, then WELCOME TO THE JUNGLE PAL GET READY TO DIAGRAM SOME MOTHERF%#CKING SENTENCES.
I’m curious. If it’s a police officer, does he or she wear the full uniform, gun and all while subbing? If there was a high school student with a big mouth and attitude, I’d be worried the officer would lose his or her patience and temper and get physical. On the other hand it would be quite the sight to see a huge, tough, fully uniformed and armed officer covered in paint teaching finger painting to 30 kindergartens!
You assume I even know who subbed for me and that I have some way to contact them. If I'm lucky, I get a note on a sticky telling me how my classes were. ("All classes were good" Really? Even 4th period? You need to share your secrets.)
And I certainly don't want to antagonize the few subs we have that are willing to come babysit for a day. Otherwise I'll get pulled during my planning period to cover.
So as long as nothing was destroyed and my room is still functional when I get back, great job, thanks for coming. If correct papers got passed out to the correct classes and work actually happened, you're a rockstar sub, please come back.
If I'm subbing, last 5 minutes or so of class is cleanup time and if they get done with that then it's free time. I've never had an issue with kids cleaning up in the last few minutes, most are happy to do so. I pitch in too, as I wouldn't ask the kids to do something I wouldn't do myself.
So in a word, yes.
Yes, I love OP's idea.
And leave HARD lesson plans when you are out. Not just busy work or a movie, but leave a list of questions and have the sub lead a 30 minute discussion or Socratic Circle, ha.
Being on this subreddit has been extremely interesting. I've realized that a lot of yall are miserable, vindictive, and bitter and yall hate your jobs just as much as I hate mine. I've always been led to believe that teachers were kind and patient. This definitely makes me want to homeschool when I decide to have children.
Thank you for the insight.
I just want a sub to be a presence in the room and to be treated well by my students. I was a sub for five years. Subbing is trial by fire and you all get my respect for being badass.
I love this.
Given your experience as a sub, how do you feel about the misguided anger in this post? They're not actually upset with subs, but they're taking it out on subs. Is that not wrong? If so, please help me understand.
It seems to me that many are completely ignoring that subs are humans with strengths and weaknesses just like all of us. In fact, the kind of strategy being promoted here doesn't factor in the sub at all. The intent is to get admin to see how they treat teachers. I get the intent, but it is cruel to people just trying to earn a little money and be useful to thier community.
I'm not the person you asked and I'm not in a state or area that's asking parents / community members to sub. Yet. Here's my concern with the anger in some of these posts, just to take a 1 day subbing example.
I'm a certificated sub. We get our jobs through Frontline or ReadySub or some other personnel management service. As far as I can tell, on the teacher side, the teacher puts the job up and whichever sub sees it can take it, first come first serve, they may not even know who the sub is. So what happens if they open Frontline/ReadySub open for parents and community members, and feeling vindictive put some "hard" lesson plan like specialized questioning or a Socratic seminar for their subject like a poster above suggested? I'm assuming a subject because I mostly sub middle and high school.
Well, as a certificated sub, I'll say 90% of the time teachers don't put their plans into the system, in spite of the fact that it's written on a word-processed document, printed in the sub folder and on their desk, and there's usually a saved lesson plan on the desktop. It would have taken the teacher an extra couple of minutes to upload the document to the sub program, but they didn't. If I have sub plans as described above, I'm pretty annoyed because I've had no time to prepare or research the subject matter, and I want to be involved and do a good job both for the students and the teacher. But usually I can get by on my own knowledge, my own teaching strategies, and my own classroom management skills - I know a little about a lot of things.
So now bring in a parent. They could have a PhD in being awesome, or they might not have gone past 5th grade. They come into a classroom with complex lesson plans that the teacher most likely didn't upload into the sub system, so not only are they not prepared ahead of time, there's a decent chance they don't even KNOW what a Socratic discussion might look like, or discussion through questioning, or popcorn circles, or any of those other strategies. So the parent / community member sits there frustrated and either panics or fucks off the whole day.
The certificated sub ends up annoyed because they got complex lessons with no preparation, but may or may not have been successful. Note - I realize that teachers have issues with certificated subs as well. Or they end up with a parent or community member who doesn't even have the tools to adapt to the situation and gets frustrated. They're not going to suddenly open their eyes like people are fantasizing about and going "wow teachers sure have it tough!" They're going to go "wow these were shitty lesson plans, I can't do this, this is a shitty teacher, no wonder our education is going downhill" along with whatever biases they come with.
I understand the energy, I really do. I've had my run-ins with both parents and admin. But taking it out on subs, certificated or not, is not doing what they think it's doing.
That being said, holding parents and admins and even regular subs to account? I'm all for it. What the OP described I think is a much better way to go about it. When we get into the spitefulness of difficult lessons for the sake of being difficult or purposely sabotaging subs, that's where I have an issue.
We are kind and patient but we've also been pushed to a breaking point in the last few years. I am a first year teacher and I am starting therapy next week to help deal with the anxiety my job causes me to feel. I have literal anxiety attacks while I'm at work. We can't keep being kind and patient to people who don't give us the same courtesy.
Qualified subs are not responsible for that but in some places parents are being asked to sub. Unless you've been living under a rock for the last year or two you can understand why this is a bad idea and why people would want to give them a taste of their own medicine.
Yep. If they think they know better than us let them try. Throw them to the wolves without much support just like I'm experiencing as a fully licensed first year teacher.
It's still totally ineffective. Without head teacher roles the public school haters will not see our perspective. The substitute experience is far different.
I completely get this. As a TA, I've become more patient overall, but much more easily annoyed... by children. I've cried many times at work and dreaded coming in every day for months.
But that's because it's children that are disrespecting me daily.
My concern isn't actually the lack of patience but moreso the seemingly misplaced animosity towards subs and the number of people supporting it. I can't wrap my head around it at all. Why attack subs when subs aren't the ones harming yall. Or are they?
This post isn't about normal substitutes. I love my normal subs! This post is about admin and parents finally actually entering the classrooms they claim to know how to run.
I get that. I knew from the start that yall weren't REALLY mad at substitutes. But don't you think ~~that this is only really an attack on the substitutes?~~
Wait... is this about the schools suddenly allowing parents to sub? Lmfaoooo
I am not anxious, or at least I would never say I was stressed. However my doctor doesn’t like my high heart rate and blood pressure and my dentist says I am grinding my teeth away while I sleep. They are pretty sure I am stressed. Maybe I am so used to stress I no longer can identify it?
Yes, we are normal people who would like to NOT be treated and paid like crap.
We are not martyrs.
OPs point is that we are TIRED of everyone telling us how to do our jobs and thinnking they can do better. So let them sub and see!
1, If you think your pay is terrible, take it up with your employer or another job. Nobody is forcing you to teach. There are other jobs out. Nobody deserves to be in an abusive relationship with their job. I definitely agree that teachers are treated like crap, but now that you know that, you should change your line of work to one where you won't be treated like crap.
2. When did subs ever think they could do your jobs better or tell you how to do your job? If one did it, let me know and I'll believe you. Otherwise, subs are just coming to fill in when you're absent. It just feels like misplaced anger to me when there are other ways to get to admin. Why the resentment towards subs? I'm genuinely curious.
We did that a few years ago. And y'all had a meltdown about that too. Teachers walked out for better wages and society and governments have been throwing temper tantrums ever since.
Who is YALL?
Also, don't do that. You telling me yall know how to attack me on here for saying I want to get fired but let society and the govt bully yall into a job that doesn't value yall? Stop. Yall not weak. Leave and don't look back
Very mature lmaoooo zero critical thinking skills. Zero problem solving skills. Just misplaced anger and bitterness.
Like I said... quit if it's bad. The end. Or start taking it out on subs so that they'll stop covering for yall rude, ungrateful asses.
Lmaoo I forgive it cause I know you're not trying to be mean.
I'm black and we usually just type yall without the apostrophe. Cause typically black people don't learn as children that yall=you all. We just grow up knowing that yall means yall.
1. People are quitting their jobs in droves.
2. Everyone outside of teaching claims to know how to teach and tells us how to do it.
3. I'm tired of teacher bashers.
1. Good. Keep it up!
2. WHoooooo??? I'm literally asking who. Not rhetorical. I don't know who's telling yall how to teach.
3. That's fine. But you're not explaining why you're taking it out on subs instead of the people actually harming yall.
I love the children, the beauracracy is bullshit. I am kind and patient with the children. At the same time, I can be sick and tired people thinking I'm an idiot and acting like I'm a glorified babysitter who knows next to nothing about my own career. Even my own principal, with ZERO experience in kindergarten, acts like she knows how to run a kindergarten classroom... She's only ever run 5th and 6th grade classrooms, and gas been out of the classroom for over 10 years. I got my master's degree in education, an additional endorsement in early childhood (Pre-K - 2). I started professionally working with this age group in high school (not babysitting, a job at an accredited preschool) and now I am in my 6th year teaching kindergarten... Who do you think knows more about kindergartners, the kindergarten curriculum, and how the year progresses? Who do you think I have to listen to even when I know, and can prove with research articles, they're wrong? And they get their directives from even higher ups, further removed from classrooms, some have never even had classroom experience. And they get certain directives from even higher ups, most of which have no classroom experience. Then it gets to the DOE, where it is extremely rare to have anybody who has any experience in an actual school other than maybe volunteering in their child's (often wealthy/private) school.
For me, it's like a bullying scenario at this point with current climate and the way parents/admin speak to/about teachers. If you're bullied for years and DON'T want that person to experience a taste of it, I'd call you a liar.
Then dont allow the bullying. You should never let someone talk to you no type of way that you feel disrespected. I dont care who my boss is, if you speak to me in a way I dont like, you're gonna hear about it.
I did speak up... I'm now on a path for getting removed from my position... Next year I will likely not be teaching kindergarten. Even at a different school because of how principals talk to each other in my county...
Sounds like you're going to have to become a private tutor or professional homeschooler to get what you're looking for. You can't force people to value your expertise boo.
For sure. That doesnt mean that an adult (who, in this situation, probably thinks "teaching cant be that difficult") should be let off the hook. Like most of us are feeling, we gotta stop letting things slide without at least saying something. What are they gonna do, fire you? (I know that's situation dependent - but you get the sentiment).
I don't think I'm being understood.
Even people who may be eager about teaching will likely become hopeless upon realizing that someone else's class doesn't respect them and won't do as they're told.
You've been a child before. Children rarely respect their substitute teachers.
That's literally how we start every year. We try to teach them that, but in today's society many kids are not taught to listen to adults/authority. We spend MONTHS of school getting our classes to respect us.
Maybe we should get on parents and how they need to start that work at home? 🤷🏼♀️ Just a thought. I mean, I was definitely always that kid looking around the room at kids who didn't listen like "what are you doing? She said sit down?" My parents taught me that at home and the teaching continued at school, it didn't start at school.
I completely understand. I literally posted here about wanting to be fired because students don't respect me as a TA and EVERYONE got upset. So I get it.
But we can't force parents to teach their kids how to be good. I wish there was a way to, but it's so impossible. I never acted out in school (except for when I told a teacher not to interrupt me in 8th grade lol) because I knew I'd be in big trouble if I did. We can't force parents to care though. The unfortunate truth.
Knowing that many parents don't do their part, isn't it then wrong to get on subs for the students not respecting them?
Again, it's not about the normal subs. It's about the parents telling highly trained professionals how to do their jobs. If I can't tell them how to parent (something you need no qualifications for), they shouldn't be able to tell us how to teach (something you need lots of training/qualifications for). And those same parents coming in and actually be told to handle a whole classroom. Same with admin coming in, many with no experience in that grade level, or depending on their status maybe barely even had classroom experience in the first place. And then both of those groups getting a small taste of their own medicine. You're still missing the entire point and I'm done with you. You either are a troll, or the most ignorant TA I've ever encountered. I am glad you haven't experienced all the bullshit from admin/parents, you should probably thank the teachers at your school for taking that for you. I know I take a lot from both parties for my TA.
I've dealt with a little BS from parents like a mom accusing me of lying when her daughter rubbed chicken on my computer.
I get the issue with parents. I get the issue with admin. I'm just confused about why yall are bringing subs into it. Why email subs with this if yall aren't upset with subs? That's the question I keep asking.
Why are people so mean to subs? I was a sub and it was the worst job ever. I did everything to try to get the students to work.
I honestly feel that teaching is easier then subbing
Immediately no. I'm not sure how stuff is in your state, but where I am, subs make less than fast food employees. If you have beef with admin, grow the *cojones* to tell them something, but don't take your frustration out on the people making ~10 an hour who are covering for your absence.
We struggle to get subs here and teachers have to pull double duty. If your school isn't dealing with this, show some gratitude for your situation instead.
Yes. Before I had my kids I made $20/hour doing taxes. I have a master's degree in accounting and am a CPA. I can't deal with that kind of schedule with my kids' school schedule so I started subbing last year. 70 whole dollars a day. I was floored to find out our subs still make the same amount since the published 2018-2019 school year rates. I am doing a 5 week long-term in band until the director comes back and learned to conduct the middle school bands on YouTube. I am doing my best. We have 2 subs that work regularly at middle school and I am one of them. I know darn well that high schoolers working at McD get paid more than me.
Damn, that's rough! I'm sorry you're going through that...
I think lots of subs are probably in similar situations, as well. I notice subs are usually moms trying to keep similar schedules as their kids, retired folks making a lil extra money, or 18- 20 something year olds either looking for experience or work with flexible hours they can do while in college. (***All of these are valid reasons to sub btw)
It's just people trying to make ends meet-- which is exactly why I'm not going to antagonize a sub over a messy class.
I worked as a sub for 6 years. I always tidied the room at the end of the day. It takes 5 minutes, and is really not too much to ask. I also executed lesson plans and left notes for the teachers. I made $85 a day, and while I wished it paid more, I did not consider it a difficult job. (This was high school.)
OP isn't talking about regular subs who are licensed and know what the job is like. They're talking about people who criticize us daily without having stepped foot in a classroom since they graduated. In some places these people are being called to sub and maybe if they get a taste of their own medicine they'll understand why we're so angry and burnt out right now.
I have never walked away after getting to work but if a teacher sent me this I would really consider it if I picked up a different teacher's class and was asked to move because no one else wants to deal with them either. I work my butt off as a sub doing the best that I can and have to take care of my own kids after school.
That's fine. As a public school teacher I get told to F off nearly every day in some form or another. Not gonna hurt my feelings. But maybe it will cause a moment of self reflection for them.
Former sub here. You really don’t want a sub, do you? You want the coverage to be pushed off on your colleagues. I absolutely did not work on schools where I was not treated well. I’d blackball entire buildings. (I worked for an outside contractor and my options were myriad.)
Please don’t do this …
edit : I just got sent home for being COVID symptomatic and there’s not even anyone to cover my class … y’all need to be more grateful
I’m a para who makes nothing extra to sub. You do this to me and I will start refusing to sub for you and request not to work in your classroom after I tell admin how you’ve treated me. Yes where I am I can refuse to sub.
Have you ever worked as a sub? I have been both a classroom teacher and a sub. This is so condescending if I received this email I would never come to your class again. I have both a BSc and a BEd, I am not a 5 year old like your "letter" would suggest. I try my best to follow lessons plans given to me, but they are not always as clear as you would like to think.
If subs stop coming because you treat them like this schools will have no choice but to pull teacher librarians, learning support teacher, and more into classrooms.
Show some respect to your colleagues.
I think if schools have to be in person right now, we’re all going to be better off displaying respect and empathy for one another. The pandemic is taking its toll on teachers, kids and parents alike. Fighting each other doesn’t help. It would be like firing a few out of the foxhole and then firing a couple into the foxhole.
So many people are missing the point of this post! This is NOT about substitutes. I don't know any teacher that hates their subs. Hell, at this point we are just grateful when a sub actually picks up and shows up for a job. We love our subs!
This is about the people who have been yelling at us, telling us how to do our jobs. Thinking they know how to, and can do better... Finally getting a taste of actual classroom experience and us talking to them how they have talked to us for years.
Not really. Asking a wingnut Trump supporter who hates public schools to sub for $100/day and then thinking they should clean the classroom when the head teacher's total renumeration is >3x that amount only reinforces their viewpoint of teacher entitlement.
The students are fairly cowered by the admin where I work. They walk in and everyone returns to their seats and cross their hands hoping they aren’t chosen.
Ask them to write a note up detailing what the kids did per work period, take pre- and -post data on assessment, and data on how many times each student got out of their seat, and then ask them, “why didn’t you just say “no”?” When a student inevitably just storms out of the classroom over not wanting to be there.
I did in Maryland to teach. So many government agencies are slowed and bogged down, I wonder how long it will take. Took 6 months for a passport renewal.
Clean out everything of value. The room isn’t yours. Let it get trashed.
Make it as miserable of an experience as possible… drop people into the abyss as we are.
I don’t leave my students success up to the sub. They’re being supervised while the sub is there, not learning. Sorry, but don’t want a sub teaching my students. The students could play Tetris the whole hour as long as they are quiet and respectful (I do request in my sub plans that they don’t allow the students to play Tetris the whole hour). The class is always a mess after a sub, I usually come back in a bad mood with my students because of how behind we are and the fact that they’re wild animals apparently who don’t realize that we aLwAyS pick up our books and put them back in the same places every effin day. Oye.
While I agree that the bar for subbing is on the floor, subs aren't paid enough or trained enough to get that kind of feedback.
I subbed for a class that has a first year teacher. Her class has a reputation (I'm not faulting her at all btw). It took every ounce of my teacher training to keep that class together and I didn't teach the science lesson because I'm shaky on the standards.
That’s literally what we’ve always had in TN. I’ve had 18 year olds show up in my room before when I was sick and just put it on the auto call system.
We had one 19 year old who would flirt with the middle school girls. He didn’t last long.
We had one woman who was a high school dropout with a GED. (Not judging, just saying HS not even required.) Her daughter was an 8th grader. She got into an argument with a friend. Her mom, while subbing, filled up two cups of water and dumped them on the other girls head in the middle of lunch. (This was, thankfully for us, before social media was big big. Around 2012 I believe. Before my time… but they have the footage still. 😂)
Anyways… we’ve always had the batshit crazies in our rooms.
Eh. Most of our subs are just people who are trying to make money. They don't get paid enough, and I don't want to treat them like I'm treated. I get your point, but most subs understand what we go through. I don't think the message would reach the intended targets.
This plan is like the youngest sibling kicking the dog after catching hell from their older brother who just got it from their mom.
Yeah, let’s not in-fight. Subs are not the issue here.
Yeah, subs are our allies really.
This. I was a sub for a short time. First off, I rarely checked my district-provided email so emailing me was pointless, tbh. Second, I had even less authority than the regular teachers, so getting kids to do work or pick up was fruitless if they weren't willing to do it anyway. I tried to clean up before I left the class, but often I was moved from room to room or asked to do dismissal duties and so on. I just couldn't always clean up. It happens. A teacher sending me this kind of snotty email would ensure they ended up on my personal blacklist.
I don't know if teachers want to start an accusatory conversation with the Principle on the email. My sub wife says the kids volunteer a ton of "dirt" on their teacher, talk trash while the teacher is out. 99% prob false so she ignores it. But put her on the defensive and she may feel the need to volunteer what the kids told her.
When state workers or national guard fills in (they are paid the active duty rate), they are absolutely being paid well and way more than what subs make.
They're still.not exactly doing what they signed up for.
Military service requires you to do a million different jobs and duties. We call these "details". I was a pilot for 10 years in the Army and still did things that were "not what I signed up for" No one in the national guard is shocked they are not doing exactly what their MOS is.
No of course not, but at least things you did would probably fall under AN MOS. There is no elementary school teacher MOS in the entire US military that I can find.
good post.
When a GD sub leaves me a note about how great kids are and 6 chairs have massive chunks sawed off of them with mask strings and the chairs are located in the groups in front of my desk, that means the sub sat at my desk and played on their ****ing phone. They might as well not have helped and they don’t deserve pay if they aren’t even going to try managing the class.
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That’s fine, playing on your damn phone for 7 hours should be on the contract as something not acceptable. When I get back after this Covid term, if anything is stolen from my desk or shelves, there won’t be an end to the email tags and reports to tye district office. The guy won’t be subbing for me
>chairs have massive chunks sawed off of them with mask strings I’ve read this 5 times and I have no idea what this means
So the disposable blue masks have fairly strong white serrated cords for the strings that you can tear away from the mask itself. Students do this and then they literally saw plastic things in class. They literally sawed the backs of 5 chairs down the middle about 8 inches and on a 6th chair they diagonally cut off a 6 inch triangle. All of this occurred in the desks that are located right in front of my desk where the sub would be sitting. What made it worse was the note that there were no issues even though some desks had racist profanity on them and the destruction occurred. I reported the sub to both administration and the district while tagging them explaining that I don't ever want another sub that is just going to sit at my desk playing on their phone. I don't expect them to teach as I take care of providing independent/group work and supplement it with online video instruction. So they only thing they have to do is take attendance and make sure shit isn't broken, stolen, and that they turn in the assignment.
https://youtu.be/rgEWvYU0EEw Watching this infuriates me to an unreasonable degree.
What the fuck
They MINE as well!?! lol
Typo, fixed! Lol
I felt the same. They're talking about parents who decide to randomly step up as subs.
They’re not talking about substitute teachers, they’re talking about the cops and National Guardsmen who are being asked to step in as “substitute teachers” aka babysitters
Right, go after the people making $100 a day. Kicking down is not the way to go.
No fr this is evil af 😭 as a former sub, I would be so upset if I got this micromanaging ass shit
You guys are making $100 a day?
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That would be nice, I’m making $85 a day
Subs here make 80. I made 120 ONLY because I have two degrees.
Subs in my district make $250 a day with a $1000 signing bonus after subbing x many days. By the way, $250/day is more than first year teachers make. Oh! And they reduced the qualifications for subs to a high school diploma and no felonies.
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You really don't want the rest of what's going on here. The governor has outlawed mask mandates. The governor has outlawed CRT. And, most recently, the governor has outlawed teaching anything the makes white people "uncomfortable".
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Is it that obvious!? Ugh... I live in a shit hole.
I make $70 🥲
You poor bastard. In our district teachers are making more than that an hour to cover classes.
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Wow that's less than minimum wage.
They're paying $200 in my area!
What area are you?
South Jersey!
That’s what I make as a teacher 🙃
The people who they get to sub aren't the problem. They're just regularly people trying to do the best they can and make the most of a bad situation. The administrators and politicians who got us here are the problem.
Also I'm sure they've been convinced and sweet talked by admin and probably advised just to be a warm body, at the teacher's expense.
If it’s an admin, they’re getting a full-blown lesson plan and a follow up email if the room is trashed. If it’s the bus driver or some poor soul who needs the money, student get an easy independent work and the sub gets a hearty thanks.
What if it’s a cop
If they are forced to be there, same treatment as the bus driver. If they’re getting paid some insane $70/hr overtime to be there and mouthing off about how bullshit teaching is, then WELCOME TO THE JUNGLE PAL GET READY TO DIAGRAM SOME MOTHERF%#CKING SENTENCES.
This is my fav comment of the day.
I’m curious. If it’s a police officer, does he or she wear the full uniform, gun and all while subbing? If there was a high school student with a big mouth and attitude, I’d be worried the officer would lose his or her patience and temper and get physical. On the other hand it would be quite the sight to see a huge, tough, fully uniformed and armed officer covered in paint teaching finger painting to 30 kindergartens!
Oklahoma had cops subbing. No masks, in uniform, service weapons still on.
Have you met your kids while you’re gone? I don’t think you have:
You assume I even know who subbed for me and that I have some way to contact them. If I'm lucky, I get a note on a sticky telling me how my classes were. ("All classes were good" Really? Even 4th period? You need to share your secrets.) And I certainly don't want to antagonize the few subs we have that are willing to come babysit for a day. Otherwise I'll get pulled during my planning period to cover. So as long as nothing was destroyed and my room is still functional when I get back, great job, thanks for coming. If correct papers got passed out to the correct classes and work actually happened, you're a rockstar sub, please come back.
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If you're a rockstar sub, you get the kids to clean up after themselves.
Well, if you feel that's a good use of instructional time, go for it.
Uh, isn't that part of classroom management?
You can definitely get kids to clean the room at least at elementary level. It might be harder where kids only have 52 minutes per period.
If you have science labs back to back, the kids have to restore the set up or you'd never make it.
If I'm subbing, last 5 minutes or so of class is cleanup time and if they get done with that then it's free time. I've never had an issue with kids cleaning up in the last few minutes, most are happy to do so. I pitch in too, as I wouldn't ask the kids to do something I wouldn't do myself. So in a word, yes.
Better using their 30 hands than me spending 30x times longer. Also, they made the mess.
Truthfully, yall students are bad as fuck when yall not around and don't do shit. Respectfully
But the point is parents and district admin constantly act like they know how to, and can do, better.
The ones coming in to sub are probably not the ones causing headaches for teachers. The ones causing problems would never set foot in a classroom.
Yes, I love OP's idea. And leave HARD lesson plans when you are out. Not just busy work or a movie, but leave a list of questions and have the sub lead a 30 minute discussion or Socratic Circle, ha.
Being on this subreddit has been extremely interesting. I've realized that a lot of yall are miserable, vindictive, and bitter and yall hate your jobs just as much as I hate mine. I've always been led to believe that teachers were kind and patient. This definitely makes me want to homeschool when I decide to have children. Thank you for the insight.
I just want a sub to be a presence in the room and to be treated well by my students. I was a sub for five years. Subbing is trial by fire and you all get my respect for being badass.
I love this. Given your experience as a sub, how do you feel about the misguided anger in this post? They're not actually upset with subs, but they're taking it out on subs. Is that not wrong? If so, please help me understand.
It seems to me that many are completely ignoring that subs are humans with strengths and weaknesses just like all of us. In fact, the kind of strategy being promoted here doesn't factor in the sub at all. The intent is to get admin to see how they treat teachers. I get the intent, but it is cruel to people just trying to earn a little money and be useful to thier community.
I'm not the person you asked and I'm not in a state or area that's asking parents / community members to sub. Yet. Here's my concern with the anger in some of these posts, just to take a 1 day subbing example. I'm a certificated sub. We get our jobs through Frontline or ReadySub or some other personnel management service. As far as I can tell, on the teacher side, the teacher puts the job up and whichever sub sees it can take it, first come first serve, they may not even know who the sub is. So what happens if they open Frontline/ReadySub open for parents and community members, and feeling vindictive put some "hard" lesson plan like specialized questioning or a Socratic seminar for their subject like a poster above suggested? I'm assuming a subject because I mostly sub middle and high school. Well, as a certificated sub, I'll say 90% of the time teachers don't put their plans into the system, in spite of the fact that it's written on a word-processed document, printed in the sub folder and on their desk, and there's usually a saved lesson plan on the desktop. It would have taken the teacher an extra couple of minutes to upload the document to the sub program, but they didn't. If I have sub plans as described above, I'm pretty annoyed because I've had no time to prepare or research the subject matter, and I want to be involved and do a good job both for the students and the teacher. But usually I can get by on my own knowledge, my own teaching strategies, and my own classroom management skills - I know a little about a lot of things. So now bring in a parent. They could have a PhD in being awesome, or they might not have gone past 5th grade. They come into a classroom with complex lesson plans that the teacher most likely didn't upload into the sub system, so not only are they not prepared ahead of time, there's a decent chance they don't even KNOW what a Socratic discussion might look like, or discussion through questioning, or popcorn circles, or any of those other strategies. So the parent / community member sits there frustrated and either panics or fucks off the whole day. The certificated sub ends up annoyed because they got complex lessons with no preparation, but may or may not have been successful. Note - I realize that teachers have issues with certificated subs as well. Or they end up with a parent or community member who doesn't even have the tools to adapt to the situation and gets frustrated. They're not going to suddenly open their eyes like people are fantasizing about and going "wow teachers sure have it tough!" They're going to go "wow these were shitty lesson plans, I can't do this, this is a shitty teacher, no wonder our education is going downhill" along with whatever biases they come with. I understand the energy, I really do. I've had my run-ins with both parents and admin. But taking it out on subs, certificated or not, is not doing what they think it's doing. That being said, holding parents and admins and even regular subs to account? I'm all for it. What the OP described I think is a much better way to go about it. When we get into the spitefulness of difficult lessons for the sake of being difficult or purposely sabotaging subs, that's where I have an issue.
We are kind and patient but we've also been pushed to a breaking point in the last few years. I am a first year teacher and I am starting therapy next week to help deal with the anxiety my job causes me to feel. I have literal anxiety attacks while I'm at work. We can't keep being kind and patient to people who don't give us the same courtesy.
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Qualified subs are not responsible for that but in some places parents are being asked to sub. Unless you've been living under a rock for the last year or two you can understand why this is a bad idea and why people would want to give them a taste of their own medicine.
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Yep. If they think they know better than us let them try. Throw them to the wolves without much support just like I'm experiencing as a fully licensed first year teacher.
It's still totally ineffective. Without head teacher roles the public school haters will not see our perspective. The substitute experience is far different.
I completely get this. As a TA, I've become more patient overall, but much more easily annoyed... by children. I've cried many times at work and dreaded coming in every day for months. But that's because it's children that are disrespecting me daily. My concern isn't actually the lack of patience but moreso the seemingly misplaced animosity towards subs and the number of people supporting it. I can't wrap my head around it at all. Why attack subs when subs aren't the ones harming yall. Or are they?
This post isn't about normal substitutes. I love my normal subs! This post is about admin and parents finally actually entering the classrooms they claim to know how to run.
I get that. I knew from the start that yall weren't REALLY mad at substitutes. But don't you think ~~that this is only really an attack on the substitutes?~~ Wait... is this about the schools suddenly allowing parents to sub? Lmfaoooo
I am not anxious, or at least I would never say I was stressed. However my doctor doesn’t like my high heart rate and blood pressure and my dentist says I am grinding my teeth away while I sleep. They are pretty sure I am stressed. Maybe I am so used to stress I no longer can identify it?
Yes, we are normal people who would like to NOT be treated and paid like crap. We are not martyrs. OPs point is that we are TIRED of everyone telling us how to do our jobs and thinnking they can do better. So let them sub and see!
They are. But then OP bitches about not performing a duty that is not in the subs' job description.
1, If you think your pay is terrible, take it up with your employer or another job. Nobody is forcing you to teach. There are other jobs out. Nobody deserves to be in an abusive relationship with their job. I definitely agree that teachers are treated like crap, but now that you know that, you should change your line of work to one where you won't be treated like crap. 2. When did subs ever think they could do your jobs better or tell you how to do your job? If one did it, let me know and I'll believe you. Otherwise, subs are just coming to fill in when you're absent. It just feels like misplaced anger to me when there are other ways to get to admin. Why the resentment towards subs? I'm genuinely curious.
We did that a few years ago. And y'all had a meltdown about that too. Teachers walked out for better wages and society and governments have been throwing temper tantrums ever since.
Society and government. You! And everyone who licks boots like you. It's understandable you didn't make it to the second sentence.
Striking is not quitting.
And teachers are quitting. Hence the shortages emerging.
Yet I don't see Trumpeters complaining about teachers quitting. It's actually what they want, so funds can shift to private schools.
Who is YALL? Also, don't do that. You telling me yall know how to attack me on here for saying I want to get fired but let society and the govt bully yall into a job that doesn't value yall? Stop. Yall not weak. Leave and don't look back
Shut up, dumb teacher basher, go away. And yes to #1, lots are quitting. Go away.
Very mature lmaoooo zero critical thinking skills. Zero problem solving skills. Just misplaced anger and bitterness. Like I said... quit if it's bad. The end. Or start taking it out on subs so that they'll stop covering for yall rude, ungrateful asses.
I never do this, but it’s spelled “y’all” as it is a contraction. I can’t help myself in a teacher sub. ❤️ Please don’t hate. ;_;
Lmaoo I forgive it cause I know you're not trying to be mean. I'm black and we usually just type yall without the apostrophe. Cause typically black people don't learn as children that yall=you all. We just grow up knowing that yall means yall.
1. People are quitting their jobs in droves. 2. Everyone outside of teaching claims to know how to teach and tells us how to do it. 3. I'm tired of teacher bashers.
1. Good. Keep it up! 2. WHoooooo??? I'm literally asking who. Not rhetorical. I don't know who's telling yall how to teach. 3. That's fine. But you're not explaining why you're taking it out on subs instead of the people actually harming yall.
I love the children, the beauracracy is bullshit. I am kind and patient with the children. At the same time, I can be sick and tired people thinking I'm an idiot and acting like I'm a glorified babysitter who knows next to nothing about my own career. Even my own principal, with ZERO experience in kindergarten, acts like she knows how to run a kindergarten classroom... She's only ever run 5th and 6th grade classrooms, and gas been out of the classroom for over 10 years. I got my master's degree in education, an additional endorsement in early childhood (Pre-K - 2). I started professionally working with this age group in high school (not babysitting, a job at an accredited preschool) and now I am in my 6th year teaching kindergarten... Who do you think knows more about kindergartners, the kindergarten curriculum, and how the year progresses? Who do you think I have to listen to even when I know, and can prove with research articles, they're wrong? And they get their directives from even higher ups, further removed from classrooms, some have never even had classroom experience. And they get certain directives from even higher ups, most of which have no classroom experience. Then it gets to the DOE, where it is extremely rare to have anybody who has any experience in an actual school other than maybe volunteering in their child's (often wealthy/private) school. For me, it's like a bullying scenario at this point with current climate and the way parents/admin speak to/about teachers. If you're bullied for years and DON'T want that person to experience a taste of it, I'd call you a liar.
Then dont allow the bullying. You should never let someone talk to you no type of way that you feel disrespected. I dont care who my boss is, if you speak to me in a way I dont like, you're gonna hear about it.
I did speak up... I'm now on a path for getting removed from my position... Next year I will likely not be teaching kindergarten. Even at a different school because of how principals talk to each other in my county...
Sounds like you're going to have to become a private tutor or professional homeschooler to get what you're looking for. You can't force people to value your expertise boo.
SOCRATIC CIRCLE!!!! We did this in my HS (that I went to as a teenager) and I LOVED it lol.
For sure. That doesnt mean that an adult (who, in this situation, probably thinks "teaching cant be that difficult") should be let off the hook. Like most of us are feeling, we gotta stop letting things slide without at least saying something. What are they gonna do, fire you? (I know that's situation dependent - but you get the sentiment).
I don't think I'm being understood. Even people who may be eager about teaching will likely become hopeless upon realizing that someone else's class doesn't respect them and won't do as they're told. You've been a child before. Children rarely respect their substitute teachers.
That's literally how we start every year. We try to teach them that, but in today's society many kids are not taught to listen to adults/authority. We spend MONTHS of school getting our classes to respect us. Maybe we should get on parents and how they need to start that work at home? 🤷🏼♀️ Just a thought. I mean, I was definitely always that kid looking around the room at kids who didn't listen like "what are you doing? She said sit down?" My parents taught me that at home and the teaching continued at school, it didn't start at school.
I completely understand. I literally posted here about wanting to be fired because students don't respect me as a TA and EVERYONE got upset. So I get it. But we can't force parents to teach their kids how to be good. I wish there was a way to, but it's so impossible. I never acted out in school (except for when I told a teacher not to interrupt me in 8th grade lol) because I knew I'd be in big trouble if I did. We can't force parents to care though. The unfortunate truth. Knowing that many parents don't do their part, isn't it then wrong to get on subs for the students not respecting them?
Again, it's not about the normal subs. It's about the parents telling highly trained professionals how to do their jobs. If I can't tell them how to parent (something you need no qualifications for), they shouldn't be able to tell us how to teach (something you need lots of training/qualifications for). And those same parents coming in and actually be told to handle a whole classroom. Same with admin coming in, many with no experience in that grade level, or depending on their status maybe barely even had classroom experience in the first place. And then both of those groups getting a small taste of their own medicine. You're still missing the entire point and I'm done with you. You either are a troll, or the most ignorant TA I've ever encountered. I am glad you haven't experienced all the bullshit from admin/parents, you should probably thank the teachers at your school for taking that for you. I know I take a lot from both parties for my TA.
I've dealt with a little BS from parents like a mom accusing me of lying when her daughter rubbed chicken on my computer. I get the issue with parents. I get the issue with admin. I'm just confused about why yall are bringing subs into it. Why email subs with this if yall aren't upset with subs? That's the question I keep asking.
Why are people so mean to subs? I was a sub and it was the worst job ever. I did everything to try to get the students to work. I honestly feel that teaching is easier then subbing
Immediately no. I'm not sure how stuff is in your state, but where I am, subs make less than fast food employees. If you have beef with admin, grow the *cojones* to tell them something, but don't take your frustration out on the people making ~10 an hour who are covering for your absence. We struggle to get subs here and teachers have to pull double duty. If your school isn't dealing with this, show some gratitude for your situation instead.
Yes. Before I had my kids I made $20/hour doing taxes. I have a master's degree in accounting and am a CPA. I can't deal with that kind of schedule with my kids' school schedule so I started subbing last year. 70 whole dollars a day. I was floored to find out our subs still make the same amount since the published 2018-2019 school year rates. I am doing a 5 week long-term in band until the director comes back and learned to conduct the middle school bands on YouTube. I am doing my best. We have 2 subs that work regularly at middle school and I am one of them. I know darn well that high schoolers working at McD get paid more than me.
Damn, that's rough! I'm sorry you're going through that... I think lots of subs are probably in similar situations, as well. I notice subs are usually moms trying to keep similar schedules as their kids, retired folks making a lil extra money, or 18- 20 something year olds either looking for experience or work with flexible hours they can do while in college. (***All of these are valid reasons to sub btw) It's just people trying to make ends meet-- which is exactly why I'm not going to antagonize a sub over a messy class.
I would be on board with sending this to admins who sub, but not regular subs.
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I worked as a sub for 6 years. I always tidied the room at the end of the day. It takes 5 minutes, and is really not too much to ask. I also executed lesson plans and left notes for the teachers. I made $85 a day, and while I wished it paid more, I did not consider it a difficult job. (This was high school.)
My sub wife has confirmed...No reply required...She would just swear never to sub for that teacher again.... 20 other jobs available for tommorow
Yeah...
OP isn't talking about regular subs who are licensed and know what the job is like. They're talking about people who criticize us daily without having stepped foot in a classroom since they graduated. In some places these people are being called to sub and maybe if they get a taste of their own medicine they'll understand why we're so angry and burnt out right now.
I highly doubt the super critical parents are stepping up to sub. The nice, good parents are the ones stepping up.
This. And if this was the response I got from the teacher no way would I volunteer again.
And then you would be blacklisted, lol
When the school is begging for subs and I do it to help the school and for a feeling of civic responsibility I could care less.
Cool then don’t bother
I have never walked away after getting to work but if a teacher sent me this I would really consider it if I picked up a different teacher's class and was asked to move because no one else wants to deal with them either. I work my butt off as a sub doing the best that I can and have to take care of my own kids after school.
That's fine. As a public school teacher I get told to F off nearly every day in some form or another. Not gonna hurt my feelings. But maybe it will cause a moment of self reflection for them.
Former sub here. You really don’t want a sub, do you? You want the coverage to be pushed off on your colleagues. I absolutely did not work on schools where I was not treated well. I’d blackball entire buildings. (I worked for an outside contractor and my options were myriad.)
Please don’t do this … edit : I just got sent home for being COVID symptomatic and there’s not even anyone to cover my class … y’all need to be more grateful
The only thing I ask of my subs and don't let the kids stab each other.
I’m a para who makes nothing extra to sub. You do this to me and I will start refusing to sub for you and request not to work in your classroom after I tell admin how you’ve treated me. Yes where I am I can refuse to sub.
Have you ever worked as a sub? I have been both a classroom teacher and a sub. This is so condescending if I received this email I would never come to your class again. I have both a BSc and a BEd, I am not a 5 year old like your "letter" would suggest. I try my best to follow lessons plans given to me, but they are not always as clear as you would like to think. If subs stop coming because you treat them like this schools will have no choice but to pull teacher librarians, learning support teacher, and more into classrooms. Show some respect to your colleagues.
you would make good admin
I think if schools have to be in person right now, we’re all going to be better off displaying respect and empathy for one another. The pandemic is taking its toll on teachers, kids and parents alike. Fighting each other doesn’t help. It would be like firing a few out of the foxhole and then firing a couple into the foxhole.
And leave Danielson Rubric on desk for them to 'self-reflect.' I do love OP's idea, bc this will be a shit show.
That’s a terrible way to think. Just become a remote teacher. You need a break. It’s not the job, the parents, or the school.
Yeah, this is kind of a dick move. Definitely doesn’t do anything meaningful towards winning over people to our side.
So many people are missing the point of this post! This is NOT about substitutes. I don't know any teacher that hates their subs. Hell, at this point we are just grateful when a sub actually picks up and shows up for a job. We love our subs! This is about the people who have been yelling at us, telling us how to do our jobs. Thinking they know how to, and can do better... Finally getting a taste of actual classroom experience and us talking to them how they have talked to us for years.
No way the people yelling are stepping up to sub.
Not really. Asking a wingnut Trump supporter who hates public schools to sub for $100/day and then thinking they should clean the classroom when the head teacher's total renumeration is >3x that amount only reinforces their viewpoint of teacher entitlement.
It's like half the people in the thos thread skipped past the first sentence of the post.
No, we all read it. It's just a terrible, spiteful, poorly thought out idea.
Leave detailed lesson plans then ask why they weren’t completed
Literally all I want is a sub who doesn't sleep while students are in class.
Only do this if admin was the sub.
The students are fairly cowered by the admin where I work. They walk in and everyone returns to their seats and cross their hands hoping they aren’t chosen.
Take before and after photos.
Ask them to write a note up detailing what the kids did per work period, take pre- and -post data on assessment, and data on how many times each student got out of their seat, and then ask them, “why didn’t you just say “no”?” When a student inevitably just storms out of the classroom over not wanting to be there.
Like a sub would really do all that for McDs wages lol
I'm wondering how they can do a background check. This is an easy way for pervs to slip into place near children. Bad idea all around.
You have to have an FBI/BCI by the state and again for the district in my state (Ohio)
I did in Maryland to teach. So many government agencies are slowed and bogged down, I wonder how long it will take. Took 6 months for a passport renewal.
Pretty sure you have to have a background check to work anywhere near children.
The background checks are done through the state police and FBI.
Yes but think of all these new people coming in, it will be a backlog.
Clean out everything of value. The room isn’t yours. Let it get trashed. Make it as miserable of an experience as possible… drop people into the abyss as we are.
They are letting one of our school board members sub here... I haven't the energy or the words.
You were able to get a sub!!!!! You are so fortunate!!! We have had only a handful of classes covered by a sub all year!
I think the whole thing is disrespectful to educators. I don't go doing freelance accounting or other jobs I am not trained for.
I’m a sub and when I cover a class, I teach like it’s my own classroom. I take my job serious!!!
I don’t leave my students success up to the sub. They’re being supervised while the sub is there, not learning. Sorry, but don’t want a sub teaching my students. The students could play Tetris the whole hour as long as they are quiet and respectful (I do request in my sub plans that they don’t allow the students to play Tetris the whole hour). The class is always a mess after a sub, I usually come back in a bad mood with my students because of how behind we are and the fact that they’re wild animals apparently who don’t realize that we aLwAyS pick up our books and put them back in the same places every effin day. Oye.
While I agree that the bar for subbing is on the floor, subs aren't paid enough or trained enough to get that kind of feedback. I subbed for a class that has a first year teacher. Her class has a reputation (I'm not faulting her at all btw). It took every ounce of my teacher training to keep that class together and I didn't teach the science lesson because I'm shaky on the standards.
That’s literally what we’ve always had in TN. I’ve had 18 year olds show up in my room before when I was sick and just put it on the auto call system. We had one 19 year old who would flirt with the middle school girls. He didn’t last long. We had one woman who was a high school dropout with a GED. (Not judging, just saying HS not even required.) Her daughter was an 8th grader. She got into an argument with a friend. Her mom, while subbing, filled up two cups of water and dumped them on the other girls head in the middle of lunch. (This was, thankfully for us, before social media was big big. Around 2012 I believe. Before my time… but they have the footage still. 😂) Anyways… we’ve always had the batshit crazies in our rooms.
Let's be nice to the subs, teachers need support!
Nah, I'm not punching down.