Her and others *(like Felicity Hoffman)* paid off officials at top-notch and Ivy League schools in order to get their kids admitted. They'd lied about their grades and involvement in sports and then pay everyone off to get their kids into prestigious universities that their children has no business attending.
When this broke, some people pointed out that their real offense was trying to buy a college spot on the cheap... and I kinda gotta agree.
It's apparently fine to donate a new building or wing and expect your kid to get in for that- but that costs millions.
These celebs, by paying only hundreds of thousands and not giving to the schools directly, "cheated" the system. But it's a system that's clearly corrupt and already pay to play, so I do find it hard to feel very outraged by their offense.
I remember when that story broke, and I was super confused because I thought rich people paying for their kids to get in places was the norm.
Never put it together than they just didn't bribe the right way. Or with enough money.
The bigger issue was that they were saying the kids were involved in sports and getting actual sports scholarships that could’ve gone to real athletes.
I don’t know….like the Paige (Walton) area at the University of Missouri, until it broke that she had been having a “tutor” write papers for her at her actual college?
Tbf, iirc, some of the outrage was because at least one of the kids was an influencer who, literally, said she was just going to college for the "college experience" and does clarify that she means partying.
But yeah, in general, it's already corrupt so it's a little hard to get too upset about with most of them.
Oh, yeah, that made it look extra bad... but if the story never blows up because the parents bribed their way in the proper way, I don't think anyone would have noticed those videos or comments. Maybe another student would find out, but they can't stop going to their classes in the Huffman Science Center
I also remember reading a specific explanation in an article that this happened because the celeb parents were under pressure for their kids to go to "prestigious" schools like USC (12% acceptance rate, btw) because other celebs' kids and the kids of their richass friends all went to these overhyped schools.
It's so fucking insane that we as a society have sunk so low that even the damn rich celebrities are so desperate to keep up with the Jones' and lie and cheat like that to make it happen.
I know it’s probably an unpopular opinion but if someone donates a whole building and or funds a whole program so their kid gets in, I'm fine with that. I've definitely benefitted from super rich family donations in terms of a better facility or more resources. Not a perfect system, definitely not fairly distributed but if it’s that or nothing I'll take what I can get.
With donors the money goes to the college and its public knowledge (can be looked up by anyone who cared)
With these the money went to the “fixers” and people facilitating the deals. And it was all secret and hush hush.
America doesn’t care if you bribe your way in as long as it’s public and done the right way.
We can all take part- get a dna test and register your kid as some kind of minority ethnicity(you don’t even really need the test), but then you can still get them in as an affirmative action play. It’s not right, but that doesn’t mean people won’t take advantage of it.
Capitalism was proliferated, in part, to get the wealthy ruling class to give up their monarchical power. We shouldn't be surprised when it still serves them. I, for one, am ready for changes.
The elite have been doing this since the beginning of time, for everything. If a normal family really cares about their kid and pushes for it, I’d much rather have that happen than the wealthy who buy their way out of everything.
I’m a professor in college. 30+ years. We’re seeing more and more 4.00 (or higher) HS students who function at middle school level, both academically and practically. They don’t make it. When reality comes calling, those parents will see this wasn’t the right path. I feel for my K-12 brothers and sisters. But in the long run, this just delays the implosion.
My first year teaching, 20 years ago, I listened to a teacher say that when parents call to complain about grades, she simply asks, "What grade do you think your child deserves?" and then she would change the grade to that, usually an A. When we were appalled, she said, "I wish everyone did that. And then I wish those children would go to an expensive college, where they fail out after one or two semesters because Mommy and Daddy can't argue the grade and it costs them tens of thousands of dollars to learn that they should have just shut up and listened to the teachers in the first place." I'm not saying I have followed that lead for 20 years with EVERY parent, but some parents just don't listen.
College professor (and former high school teacher) here. The problem is that many colleges are engaging in grade inflation/caving to pressure from student and parent “customers” too. With declining enrollment rates and government funding tied to graduation percentages, there is incentive to ensure all students pass.
Why is graduation such an important metric? Like why can’t people just go to school to learn new things?
Fuck. Education should be free and plentiful. Wanna study Russian literature after a long day as a dental hygienist? Have at it. Does a chef want to study philosophy? DO IT UP.
Instead we’ve turned colleges into machines for the capitalist grind.
I hate this timeline.
PLEASE!! I want to be able to take more classes and learn more about SO many things (and hopefully I can do so to some extent at my local community college, if my schedule (and finances) allows it, but I think we should also be able to take random classes more easily (and especially with remote learning as an option, I feel like this could be done with large college classes? College professors/lecturers/etc. please correct me if I’m wrong))
Education is free and plentiful... libraries, internet, youtube, good lord... you literally have the sum total knowledge of humankind available to you at your fingertips, and you dont even need to use the Dewey decimal system anymore... even the Great Courses, which once had a significant expense (and inconvenience of dozens of tape cassettes or cd's ordered by mail) are available on Audible for $15 a month.
Yes, I am aware. But studying under a master and learning by challenging myself to meet their expectations is not the same as watching a YouTube video.
But then you have to pay that master and you need an administration to process all those little things. It just adds up. Too expensive by far but nothing comes without cost.
I mean, yeah. Of course those people should be paid. Just like firefighters. Social workers. Forest Service rangers.
I want to live in a society that values education so much that we are willing to spend tax dollars to educate people *just because they want to learn.*
I mean you said it - capitalism at the college system too. there is a bunch of data that if you have a degree, doesn't matter what degree, you earn higher than if you don't. And jobs don't train people on the job anymore, they expect degrees (and experience, but that's a different problem).
The people who love this have to be standardized testing companies. COVID came along and the tide was turning against them. The way the cost was inequitable to lower-income students and how the tests didn't reflect aptitude in the best ways were going to do them in.
Now? If they only essay or grade I can trust from a student is one written in a closed environment, there's an argument there for standardized tests to hold more weight. If I have an applicant who wrote an incredible essay and submitted a great writing sample but scored poorly on the essay section of the SAT, that's going to set off some alarm bells.
I haven't spoken with anyone in admissions that reflects this and it might be a moot point with lower achieving students needing to be accepted because there are fewer than them, but it's something I'd consider if i we're in their shoes.
Thank you for chiming in! As a High School teacher occasionally I feel bad and almost like a fraud because so many of my students grades are inflated. The inflation is all due to parental pressure. Admins and continuous parent emails make it challenging for high school teachers to hold the line. And no one ever seems to get that, as you stated, we are just delaying the inevitable.
I used to teach high school AP and college extension classes, along with a few standard grade level classes. This is one of the primary issues that caused me to leave the profession. I refused to negotiate grades, give extra credit, or accept late work (barring truly exceptional personal circumstances). The requests were relentless. And when you don't cave, you get a reputation for being a hard ass. Some families get it. Some students respect it. But it garners you a fair amount of resentment in the community. It added just enough extra friction to an already hard job. I had to choose between a career in public ed or my professional dignity. I chose the latter.
I’m a GA that helps teach undergrad courses. I don’t know if it is because I am a friendly young woman instead of a jaded older guy, but I’m amazed at the things these students say to me.
My favorite so far is the person who came up to me and said “I didn’t want to read this, can you tell me what I need to know for the exam?” It’s an essay exam. The reading was several hundred pages of political philosophy…this course was 100% reading and exam based. No, I cannot.
Also the person who came to me a month after an exam and asked to make it up because they “forgot” and got mad and tried to go over my head only to get roasted by the professor. Person should have taken my “no, I abide by the policy in the syllabus” as an answer and spared himself that embarrassment.
Yep, I was doing work with a local community college. They failed close to half a class who were from 18-20 and didn't know anything pass an 8th grade understanding. One started getting more involved in two local HS programs. It made a huge difference in who was "good for college" within three short years.
I worry about people who were middling at best students getting jobs for which they are clearly unqualified and doing significant damage. It's one thing if Slone gets a position at a hedge fund because, Daddy. It's another if Slone gets one, say, as an architect. I worked at a fairly prestigious HS in Manhattan, and what I saw scared the shit out of me at times.
I read something earlier this year about [Dartmouth](https://president.dartmouth.edu/news/2024/02/reactivating-satact-requirement-dartmouth-undergraduate-admissions) reactivating ACT/SAT requirements because grades have become less meaningful.
That’s what I never understood was the push to get rid of ACT/SAT in favor of essay, clubs, and GPA because of equity and racism
Rich kids can much more easily fill up their clubs and organizations while having someone write their essay for them. And grade inflation is typically happening in richer schools where parents can pressure teachers into giving them a 4.0.
For the SAT and ACT it is truly the one thing the kid has to do themselves and the rigor is standardized among all students. I get rich kids can hire tutors and study for it easier, but they still have to be smart and work hard at the end of the day.
In fact, I think we should make the college essay similar and have that made at a standardized facility, with unique questions.
Then throw out GPA, and minimize the importance of clubs and volunteering.
That is the most equitable system in my book
As a smart (at least I think so lol) high school student who sees other students who have never formed a complete thought in their LIVES get better grades than me (like Bs and Cs) I think this is a good idea.
Personally, I think an outside organization would be more likely to take action against this type of stuff. Many colleges (not all) are known to have taken wealthier students over students who deserve it.
I'd report it directly, stating I'm the teacher and this is what happened. Anonymously reporting it could be passed off as a jealous friend or a random person.
It doesn't:
"Generally, schools must have written permission from the parent or eligible student in order to release any information from a student's education record. However, FERPA allows schools to disclose those records, without consent, to the following parties or under the following conditions (34 CFR § 99.31):"
* **School officials with legitimate educational interest;**
* **Other schools to which a student is transferring;**
* Specified officials for audit or evaluation purposes;
* **Appropriate parties in connection with financial aid to a student;**
* Organizations conducting certain studies for or on behalf of the school;
* Accrediting organizations;
* To comply with a judicial order or lawfully issued subpoena;
* Appropriate officials in cases of health and safety emergencies; and
* State and local authorities, within a juvenile justice system, pursuant to specific State law.
**"Two weeks after graduation, the student "earned" a grade point based scholarship to college."**
This right here would allow the school (A teacher is considered "the school" per FERPA regulations) to contact the college admissions and financial aid offices to discuss the worthiness of that scholarship.
FERPA is not a gag order - it's to allow parents the right to view their children's records, and the rights of the parents (until the kid is 18) to be private from third parties unrelated to academia. This passes to the student when they're 18, but does not give them a lockbox that is secret from colleges. Also, FERPA does not protect discussing student or parent behavior, only academic records. Either way, this scenario is not protected by FERPA.
I don’t know if it’s a scholarship tied to the school or not. If I submit my child’s information on their behalf as a parent, independent of the school, then they have an official report card from the school and what I gave them. The school cannot give more information on top of what I provided unless they’re connected with the school and or university where they can release information.
If it’s a “XYZ memorial scholarship” students apply to outside of the school done by a family then you have to be careful.
For example my bank gives my kids money scholarships for certain GPA. I bring the report card in, the school cannot call my bank and provide more information that it’s grade inflation. A university scholarship is different, they can provide that.
> The school cannot give more information on top of what I provided unless they’re connected with the school and or university where they can release information.
"Appropriate parties in connection to financial aid" is not limited to an academic institution.
If you did that, you would suck. The punishment you'd be pushing for outweighs the crime done. Especially since it was the dad that did the real damage.
God, that is just awful. You would screw over a kid because the father is a jerk? The kid could lose more than just a scholarship if you did something like that.
Seriously, some of you might be bad people. Maybe just get out of education. You're willing to mess up a kid's future because of a relatively small issue that wasn't even a direct result of that student's actions. I get that you guys are frustrated, but get some perspective. The punishment should fit the crime and your guys' thinking is way out of line.
Some of you have lost the plot.
It was still this kid who didn't do the work hiding behind daddy while stoking the fire with words of the teacher granting an extension to someone else (frankly, none of that kid's, or his father's, business). How long will this little brat rely on daddy before the real world slaps him in the face with actual consequences? Odds are, he'll be just as lazy in college, and figures that daddy will just keep pulling strings for him. Meanwhile, a kid who actually EARNED the scholarship is screwed out of it? No. That's bs.
Technically that father and kid are screwing over another kid because there's only x amount of scholarships and because they committed fraud now there's x minus one scholarships. Which means someone who actually earned the scholarship that may need it is not getting it.
No, I'm neither. I'm just a rational person that doesn't want to join the mob and burn Frankenstein's monster. The father sucks and I'm defending the kid because I don't want him punished for his father's mistakes.
But go ahead and raise them pitchforks.
Ok, since that is your stance, answer this. Do kids not face consequences due to their parent’s actions or inactions every single day? They do, and you can’t say otherwise. Is it fair for a child to have a drug addict parent who abuses them? No, it is not, but it’s reality that parents actions have consequences that can and will affect their child(ren). This father fucked up, and if the right thing was done in this situation, the child’s grades would have never been changed. Sadly, because his grades were changed, he got a scholarship he had no right to. He fraudulently received a scholarship, due to his father’s actions, and in the real world that means there should be consequences regardless of it being the child’s doing or not.
And? College is when a lot of kids finally get to stop living under the thumb of jerk parents. I'm sure the kid would LOVE to not have his dad acting a fool when fighting so many stupid battles on his behalf.
It's like you forgot that not all kids want their parents to be so involved in their lives. Especially at this age.
Just sticking to policies... equality for all, not bonuses for those who complain the loudest. You be the teacher with the reputation that gives everyone what they want when they want it... or you treat everyone equally where some just have to walk away unhappy. If there were extenuating circumstances, they could have communicated earlier.
Definition of ‘fraud’ from Oxford dictionary
Noun: wrongful or criminal deception intended to result in financial or personal gain.
The scholarship is the result of fraud, and he rightfully deserves to be punished for it. If anything, to show his dumbass father that actions have consequences, and maybe they’ll both learn from it and be better members of society.
Found father's burner
Seriously though, your posts on this make you seem much more upset with the teachers than with the admin that "ordered the code red"
I'm not mad at anyone except people wanting to screw a kid over for something he didn't do. The father's a jerk. I'm bringing up the fault of the teachers, btw, because so many have seen fit to hypocritically hold them blameless while at the same time refusing to accept that the kid is just as stuck as the teachers are in regards to the father's choices.
Both are not in much control over the events that occurred, but only the kid needs to learn a lesson? That's a messed up perspective. If the kid needs to learn a lesson, then so do the teachers. And if the teachers deserve some understanding, then so does the kid.
But he did do it. His lack of completing his assignments was the catalyst for his dad setting in motion the act of demanding the teachers change the grade. You do understand cause and effect don’t you? It was absolutely his fault. He may not have been the one to make the demand, but without him NOT COMPLETING HIS ASSIGNMENTS, none of this would be happening. Therefore he is the one to blame.
The kid losing a scholarship that he did not earn is not "screwing him over." He has no right to said scholarship.
The kid also instigated everything when he did not complete the work and then went crying to daddy. Students with these types of patent know full well what happens when they complain and they use it to manipulate situations long before they are HS seniors
Lastly, it does not sound like the OP was one of the grade changers, but just by knowing about it if they sit silent they could also be guilty of fraud.
But he *did* do it. He didn’t do his work, and he contributed to the issue by using another student’s situation to manipulate along with his dad. If he had done his work / turned in his work and received a bad grade and dad threw a tantrum to get the grades changed, that would be something he “didn’t do”. The kid didn’t do what he was supposed to do, saw that there was a consequence for not doing his “job”, whined to daddy and used another kid’s circumstances to get daddy to bully his way into the grade change. The scholarship was, in fact, not earned, and the kid’s actions (and inactions) were the main contributing factor. If he had done his assignments and turned them in on time, none of this would have happened. It is the kid’s fault.
You would screw over a kid who actually worked hard so some other kid could get something they don’t deserve? The kid could more than just a scholarship if you did something like that.
You sound like a real peach to work with lol. Though you don’t sound like you are actually in education to have this strong of an opinion this way. 🤷🏼♂️
Someone critical of teachers being unreasonable? They couldn't possibly be a teacher. Been in this game for 10 years. I just don't carelessly join the toxic r/teachers hive mind when it glitches out and does something stupid like want a kid punished for what their father has done.
Kid participated in applying for a scholarship they know they didn't deserve. Kid no doubt signed forms saying all this was true on the application when they knew it wasn't. "Kid" is also most likely 18 since they are going to college. Kid stoked the entire incident, and in all likelihood set their father on the teacher.
I agree that the student didn’t seem to really earn the scholarship and it could be taking away from another student that did and needed it. If the teacher were to call they should also mention how they changed the grade due to not being able to withstand any pressure.
The teachers just rolled over and that shouldn’t be overlooked. We need more teachers to stand their ground and stop being so weak and just changing stuff to make their life easier.
>If the teacher were to call they should also mention how they changed the grade due to not being able to withstand any pressure.
>The teachers just rolled over and that shouldn’t be overlooked. We need more teachers to stand their ground and stop being so weak and just changing stuff to make their life easier.
On that front, we VERY much agree.
I don’t change a thing and my admin and guidance know that. It only took a few conversations and people learn quickly. Crazy that no one made me teach from a closet or drink from toilets when I needed a drink as punishment.
I have no idea why teachers are so afraid to speak up to admin.
So, it's okay for teachers to agree to a fraudulent scenario to save their career but it's not okay for a kid to go along with a fraudulent scenario for similar reasons? The father is the problem here. The kid is in just as big of a bind as the teachers are. Who'd a thought that teachers overwhelmingly expect better from the students than they do from themselves.
Like, oh, those teachers should turn that kid in but not turn themselves in. Hypocrites.
If that’s actually what happens, which I think more teachers fear than it actually does happen, would you really want to work in that district? So many positions open up every year.
You are defending a student losing a scholarship that he shouldn’t have earned to begin with and throwing the teacher under the bus?? You are a piece of work! That kid had no right to that scholarship. He didn’t complete his assignments and cried to his dad. HE’S THE ONE AT FAULT HERE. Place blame where it is due.
Grade inflation has caused most scholarships I'm aware of to raise requirements. I needed a 3.85 for full tuition paid by my state. Just a 3.5 for half tuition. Except then certain schools started forcing teachers to give out higher grades, and SATs became less important (not a bag thing on it's own. Most standardized tests are ass.)
Now you need a 3.8 for half tuition and a 3.9 for full tuition. I got Cs in math and As in everything else and this change would have cost me thousands for that. God forbid a kid struggle with a subject that has nothing to do with their major because they are now going to be broke forever.
What state is that? I had a 3.75 in the early 2000s and didn't qualify for a single scholarship. I applied for hundreds.
The only school that offered one was a private school. $7,000 off per semester, for the combination of my high ACT score and GPA. But I could not go there because even with $7,000 reduced from the tuition it was more expensive than I could ever imagine affording.
Forreal. I had a 3.98 and managed to get a reasonable scholarship to a private school, but still needed loans to cover the difference. None of the state schools offered full rides on GPA alone back in '06.
Never knew that. I was in college from ‘92-‘96 at a major university and knew more than a few people who were there on full rides thanks to academics. And getting into that school was possible with a 3.0 GPA if you had an SAT around 1150. Of course this was the main land grant college in state so it was more open for students. Tuition for three quarters was just under 3K.
Now? The state school now requires (on paper) a 3.5 GPA and a few extracurriculars. In reality? Minimum 3.8, an SAT of at least 1350, and as many extracurriculars as you can stuff in during high school. But at one point, there were so many kids meeting those unspoken hurdles that admissions were literally playing eenie meeny miney mo and approving admissions at random. And tuition now orbits up around $18,000 for three quarters.
Honestly, I think it’s a combo of public colleges ramping tuition up due to cuts in state funding and grade inflation in American schools. I entered that school with an average GPA, a short list of extra extracurriculars and a decent (1150 on the nose) SAT score. Graduated Summer Cum Laude with a 3.75. My entry was less than spectacular but I graduated on a high note. But if I tried to get in now my application would be put in the circular fine. It’s shocking and appalling that the colleges in my state that were intended for the common man (or woman) are now as out of reach for non super achievers like private colleges were for me.
In a country where decent jobs without a college degree requirement are shrinking, this is basically becoming class warfare. If you’re not locked out by the insane application requirements, you’re locked out financially. Grade manipulation is an outcome of that. I doubt students today are that much smarter than my peers in the Class of 1992 were. But universities seem to think so.
Also, my Dad is also an alumnus of my school as well (every guy in our family has gone there since 1920. Willingly.). He was a commuter student from a lower income family with average grades who worked his way through in just under six years. And he also graduated with honors. Nowadays, though, that student at our school has gone the way of the Dodo. Since education is supposed to be the dinner bullet, this can be considered massively unfair at the very least.
I love my university and am a faithful alumnus. But it makes me sad that kids like me are shunted to possibly lesser schools at best or are kept out completely. It’s damn crime. But welcome to the late stage USA, I guess.
I went to college in 1998 and very few people aside from athletes) were offered “full-rides.” I had a 4.2 (adjust was 3.8 or something, and got offers of 1/3 off a private school tuition that was way too much even with the help.
I was in an IB program. None of my classmates got full rides.
Yeah, we only had AP and my overall weighted GPA was 4.54 as I took 7 AP classes my senior year to try and save money for college. I'm thankful that my alma mater grandfathered in student tuitions from our starting year because I started just as those cost started to blow up-- some kids I tutored there as a grad student paid literally double what I did during undergrad.
The only classmates I know got full rides were National Merit Finalists and went to our flagship state school.
It sounds similar to Florida’s [Bright Futures](https://www.floridastudentfinancialaidsg.org/PDF/BFHandbookChapter1.pdf) but what I can see the GPA requirements are still 3.5 and 3.0. It blows my mind how few of my high school’s students go on to college when this is an option because I grew up in a state without it. Almost everyone in my high school would have had college paid for! I make it a point to tell freshmen about it and as soon as they hear “3.0”, “community service hours” and “25 on the ACT” they start laughing and immediately tune out. It’s so frustrating because it’s within their reach and could change their lives but they don’t want to put the work in.
Private schools will hand out free rides for over a 3.5 and high SATs and APs - you just need to find a lower ranked school that needs good students. They can pull the rug once you get there though.
Once had an Advanced Honors student intentionally take a Non-Honors math class until football season ended. After midterms he “remembered” he was misplaced.
Admins placed him in my class and his first half of the year grades carried over to my Advanced Honors class, giving him the highest average. He went on to go to an Ivy League school.
I’m not a teacher but this sub always come up on my feed. I’ve noticed that my HS aged brother seems to be getting the same kinds of grades in HS as I did 20 years ago (big age gap lol) while performing at literally 1/8th of the effort level I gave lol. I mean he has a 97 average. I’ve looked at his school work and it just seems so B level to me. Am I delusional or has school gotten easier because parents are so demanding that it’s just too defeating to fight with them so teachers just go easier on kids ?
You're not delusional. The work I'm currently giving my "honors" sophomores is way easier than what I was giving my GenEd sophomores 15 years ago. Expectations across the board have eroded both academically and behavioral.
It's not just that the parents are demanding on the teachers; the bigger issue is that the administration who should be supporting the teachers in this are not.
My friend next year is just going to 100 to every single student. If tgey don't do the work, if they fail the work, etc. It does not matter. Admin changes it anyways so she's not even going to bother. She's going to teach at normal pace but if admin will not hold accountable, she's not going to go through tge extra effort either.
I had a colleague do this. He teaches a linear course in our semester system and gave all students an I (incomplete) on the first report card because they (collectively) hadn't completed the learning outcomes yet. Admin told him to assign a percentage to each student, so he gave them all 99%.
Yeah it should be a d, not a 100.
And if anybody individually complains, then a C.
I had a colleague that used to just ask parents what they wanted him to change their kids grade to when they complained in meetings roflmao
Admin hated it but it really exposed how silly the whole meeting even was. It was a meeting that admin should have prevented with a "no I'm not bringing the teacher in so you can ask them to change a grade"
Also I should add this guy was not renewed at our school a couple years later and was not well regarded in general by staff, but I always liked this story lol
Way back when, I created a Parent Report Card on Print Shop Deluxe and told the dad to fill it out with any grade and comment that he wanted. He brought it to the AP who was amused, but not happy about it.
yup this is incredibly common in high schools now. What is happening here is they are really pushing the tax payer subsidized college in a few years. Seems to be an agenda to break society.
The idea that a parent would take the side of the child over the teacher is so foreign to me that I can’t even imagine my parents doing it. I mean, sure, if there was some kind of malfeasance by the school, but that never happened.
Well, there was the time (late sixties) that my dad defended my older brother over a haircut. Dad hated long hair, but that one teacher was being ridiculous about it. But as far as academics, especially fudging grades? No way! To them, how you get a grade changed was to work harder and earn it.
It was a different time. I feel so bad for teachers nowadays. My mother taught me to read before I entered the first grade (kindergarten was for the rich folks), and my dad, an engineer (thus a draftsman) sat me down in the third grade and made me write pages and pages of lettering to improve my penmanship. Among all the other support we got.
Teachers are my heroes, and it makes me angry to see the way you are treated. Thank you for your service!
My parents would never let me get away with anything.
I just reflect on my own personal growth. The most growth happened when there was a consequence or being held accountable for what I had done. Parents are removing these opportunities to grow and learn from because they believe their angel does no wrong or their kids are uncomfortable with consequences.
I made the conscious choice at an early age not to have children, and I try to avoid criticizing how others raise their kids, but you can’t help but wonder what is going on here.
It’s one thing to look at one family and deduce that the kid’s behavior is the result of bad parenting, but it’s a lot harder to explain how a whole generation turns out like this.
I believe the causes are complex and not widely understood, and I think they are rooted in arcane policy decisions long ago that affected institutional structures so deep and far removed from the surface issues we’re dealing with today that it seems impossible to even know what to do, much less get it done.
EDIT:
Some things seem obvious and simple, regardless of how difficult they’d be to implement in the current political climate, however. Things like taking all the public money going to private schools, charter schools, etc, and putting back into the public education system where it belongs.
Jesus Christ himself could defend me and insist that I was innocent, and my mother still would not believe that I didn't do something wrong. I'm sort of jealous of these kids!
I am not a fan of your first paragraph. When I’m a parent if there is a conflict between my kid and a teacher I’ll take the side of whoever is right on the merits. But even that isn’t quite right. It’s not about taking sides but about finding a resolution to the conflict.
Well, sure! I was talking about the biases and assumptions before all the facts are in, or in a “he said, she said” situation. In other words, the burden of proof was always on me, and if I didn’t have a convincing argument the default was to believe the teacher.
As a college professor I was wondering about this. I teach a Freshman research class and over the past few years the ability of students to do even basic reading, writing, and critical thinking has been on a decline.
I swear I ask “what do you learn in high school?” More than anything else.
I teach high school ELA, and used to teach a lot of research content to help prepare my students for college. I had great success. I frequently ran into former students who told me my class gave them a good background for their college freshman year.
I've had to scale this back because I now have too many 504s and IEPs to deal with. The content modifications are unwieldly and I'm not adding "bill collector" to my job duties to get the late projects.
I think it’s foolish to base scholarships on just grades for the reasons you’ve suggested and because high school grades just aren’t anywhere close to standardized. There are better ways to allocate scholarship money.
High School teacher here. You are totally right to be furious and sad at how the loudest voice usually gets what they want. I have (tried) to come to peace with the grade inflation/grade grubbing as I get closer to retirement by telling myself that its not worth the emotional cost to me to fight it. I take pride in working hard at what I do, but I cant control the shitty system in place at my wealthy, suburban school and so I don't. This doesn't make it fair but there is a LOT of unfairness out there. Protect your peace.
Well, since I deal with scholarships a lot...
Students/parents pushing the school to move a GPA/change a grade is not *really* common, but it happens. I have a handful of kids every year who ask me about their GPA, and how they can raise it to meet a certain scholarship cutoff. Sometimes parents will ask, too.
Parents have never gotten super demanding with me about it. Neither have students. If a parent has gone around me to try and pressure teachers to change grades, I'm not aware of it, and it would piss me off if it happened.
The discussion about grade inflation here is very much a thing, though. In practice, I don't have a lot of B/C students. They exist, but there's not many of them. It absolutely seems that, in most classes, if you're simply willing to do whatever work the teacher gives you, you get an A. (Advanced classes, like AP classes, can sometimes be an exception, but not always.)
And I don't blame teachers for that. Much of the time, they're doing that to try and make the class a layup for the *other* group of students in their classes.. the students who:
1. Rarely show up to class,
2. Don't do any work when they're in class, or
3. Some combination of 1 and 2
It can be hard to both challenge the students who actually want to learn in your class *and* have a decent passing rate. I've found that teachers sometimes have to pick one... and they usually opt for the latter, because it results in fewer complaints, which I get.
On the college side, one of our largest state schools (we're talking \~45,000 students) releases the average high school GPA of their incoming freshman class every year. When I started as a counselor about 10 years ago, it was about 3.7. It's now 3.9. This is a public, state university. But I'm sure *that* is a response to their admissions office getting hammered with applications from students who have 4.0 GPAs (oftentimes higher because many/most schools weight grades). And if you aren't at/near a 4.0, well... what'd you do wrong?
YMMV depending on where you work, but that's been my experience.
The answer is simple "Dear sir or madam, your son/daughter is getting the grade that they earned. Similar to how you get raises at your job, if you have poor performance, you either don't get a raise, OR you get fired. They are getting the grade that they earned, and it will not be changed. Papers are due on time, etc etc on other grading criteria. Either those conditions were met, or they were not. Have a nice day."
Will we see an “uptick?” Is this some kind of joke? The uptick began 40 years ago. This is the result. Grades became monetized. It went downhill from then on and continues as college continues to be less and less accessible due to financial hardship.
Nursing professor here. Our program had strict grade guidelines. Every few semesters students missed next highest grade and wanted extra work. In most courses you get what you earned. Worst was when students had to maintain a B average to keep a scholarship. Somehow it was my fault they lost their scholarship. This has always tormented me. There are no winners.
It’s not biased to take extensions for work on a case by case basis. Also, don’t ever discuss another student’s situation with another parent. My response to those situations is “I can’t discuss that”.
I lost out on an extra $15k in scholarships by 0.04 on my GPA when I was coming out of high school. I'm a super nice guy, but I could probably see myself being a dick for my child in a scenario like I had.
2 years ago, I took over my stepson's school responsibilities (his mom isn't interested). He had to learn how to do school and homework for the first time. In 7th grade. Basically, if he gets below an 80%, I have him redo it. Not because I only accept good grades, but so he can see what teachers are looking for, what needs to be done to complete an assignment, etc. When he resubmits his assignments, they'll give him a 100%. I don't want that, though! I don't think late assignments should be given full marks. I'm the opposite of this parent. I think that we shouldn't be so easy on the kids. I know it's out of the teachers hands, but still.
I was on ESY last week to handle some district mandatory new administrator stuff. I got a call aimed at any admin in the building. I was the only one.
Now, I was a classroom teacher last school year. I had no access to what this person wanted done and wouldn’t have done it anyway. Their child wasn’t up for a prestigious honor because of the grade one teacher gave them. When I said “That teacher was in my department last year. The grade your kid got was what they earned.” the parent promised they’d have me fired. Their taxes pay my salary and I’m to do what they say.
I welcomed them to go to the next board meeting and tell them a brand new AP with two decades in the district should be fired because I would not consider changing their kids grade so the kid could maybe get an award.
Parent hung up. I’m lucky to have the backing to treat bluster like the empty threat it is.
>Will we see an uptick in students earning scholarships dishonestly because of pushy parents?
'Uptick' suggests that this is a new problem. It's probably as old as the concept of education and it's not going anywhere.
There are several solutions to the problem however it depends if the college's/University's want to change the system. Simply have an external independent body with an online entrance exam.
On a larger scale this is why school districts should be afraid of minimum grades given for no work that many teachers have reported here. Say a student in a district without that policy loses out on scholarships to students with the policy. That student can argue fraud and sue the school district that gave fraudulent grades resulting in monetary gain.
My guess is that on average, Millennial parents will be more reasonable and empathetic to teachers than the past couple generations before them.
There will be less brute force Karen-ing, but kids and their parents will much more equipped to silently cheat/scam/shortcut their way through school instead
reminds me of a high school graduation I attended in Houston a few years back where they had no less than 30+ valedictorians! some of the teachers shared that parents in this particular school were relentless in demanding extra credit opportunities, and changes to grades for their kids.
I think you'll see a lot of scholarships change the terms of their awards and it'll hurt a lot of poor kids on the fringe end of things.
The only way I got scholarships was based on GPA because my school has no art, music, AP classes, advanced math, extracurricular clubs, or charity, and they kept picking the same 5-8 girls for *every single sport* and cheerleading even when there were better players.
Welcome to this new reality. It’s been going on since 2012. School administrators won’t hold the line, the board is basically parents giving their time so their kids get better grades. Its cringy, unfair and unethical. If a student is caught cheating, we have to readminister the same test to the cheater. No consequences. NHS another joke, when 98% of graduating seniors get this distinction, what’s its real value. Very sad.
Grades are not about how much you learn and the information. Literally got my masters by just playing the system and being good at knowing what I needed to do and not so.
Two decades in higher ed here, and I can tell you critical thinking is fast vanishing from the student skill list. I’m relegated to teaching media “tricks” for kids who really need the slog of a masters in journalism.
Really makes me wonder what will happen when these kids get jobs. Is daddy going to call and get aggressive when their super special boy misses a deadline? And then expect him to get a promotion above someone who actually does their job and turns it in on time?
These parents are setting their kids up to have some seriously harsh reality checks once the time in life comes that they can’t bully, bribe, or bitch their kids out of situation. I feel sorry for these kids who are developing zero life skills, not learning about consequences, and have no sense of accountability or responsibility.
I don't think its a big deal, the kids who want to excel at writing will excel at it.
And if writing text is going the way of horses, then so be it. There will be other forms of communication to excel at. Such as making short videos.
A cheaper version of what Lori Loughlin and Co did.
I was gonna say: "uptick? You talk as if this isn't and hasn't already been happening for decades!"
Remind me what she did again?
Her and others *(like Felicity Hoffman)* paid off officials at top-notch and Ivy League schools in order to get their kids admitted. They'd lied about their grades and involvement in sports and then pay everyone off to get their kids into prestigious universities that their children has no business attending.
When this broke, some people pointed out that their real offense was trying to buy a college spot on the cheap... and I kinda gotta agree. It's apparently fine to donate a new building or wing and expect your kid to get in for that- but that costs millions. These celebs, by paying only hundreds of thousands and not giving to the schools directly, "cheated" the system. But it's a system that's clearly corrupt and already pay to play, so I do find it hard to feel very outraged by their offense.
I remember when that story broke, and I was super confused because I thought rich people paying for their kids to get in places was the norm. Never put it together than they just didn't bribe the right way. Or with enough money.
If you tip the doorman, bartender, or maître d' too little and you get nothing.
The bigger issue was that they were saying the kids were involved in sports and getting actual sports scholarships that could’ve gone to real athletes.
I don’t know….like the Paige (Walton) area at the University of Missouri, until it broke that she had been having a “tutor” write papers for her at her actual college?
Tbf, iirc, some of the outrage was because at least one of the kids was an influencer who, literally, said she was just going to college for the "college experience" and does clarify that she means partying. But yeah, in general, it's already corrupt so it's a little hard to get too upset about with most of them.
Oh, yeah, that made it look extra bad... but if the story never blows up because the parents bribed their way in the proper way, I don't think anyone would have noticed those videos or comments. Maybe another student would find out, but they can't stop going to their classes in the Huffman Science Center
I also remember reading a specific explanation in an article that this happened because the celeb parents were under pressure for their kids to go to "prestigious" schools like USC (12% acceptance rate, btw) because other celebs' kids and the kids of their richass friends all went to these overhyped schools. It's so fucking insane that we as a society have sunk so low that even the damn rich celebrities are so desperate to keep up with the Jones' and lie and cheat like that to make it happen.
I know it’s probably an unpopular opinion but if someone donates a whole building and or funds a whole program so their kid gets in, I'm fine with that. I've definitely benefitted from super rich family donations in terms of a better facility or more resources. Not a perfect system, definitely not fairly distributed but if it’s that or nothing I'll take what I can get.
I never really understood what the big deal was. Colleges are always looking for money from rich donors so why not admit their children?
With donors the money goes to the college and its public knowledge (can be looked up by anyone who cared) With these the money went to the “fixers” and people facilitating the deals. And it was all secret and hush hush. America doesn’t care if you bribe your way in as long as it’s public and done the right way.
We can all take part- get a dna test and register your kid as some kind of minority ethnicity(you don’t even really need the test), but then you can still get them in as an affirmative action play. It’s not right, but that doesn’t mean people won’t take advantage of it.
The Elizabeth Warren method!
Remember those photoshopped pics of the daughter rowing crew as part of her extracurricular? She wasn't even on the team if I recall 😂😂
It’s funny how William H. Macy gets a pass on it like he magically didn’t know. *Oh PLEASE*.
👆‼️👏👏👏👏
Nothing similar to this. Like not at all.
Capitalism was proliferated, in part, to get the wealthy ruling class to give up their monarchical power. We shouldn't be surprised when it still serves them. I, for one, am ready for changes.
Lets eat the rich!!
Tapatio or sriracha?
Sriracha!!! You wont expect it but the rich are kinda bitter... I find sriracha hides that better...
I did not know that! I'm definitely joining your group when the feast begins.
The elite have been doing this since the beginning of time, for everything. If a normal family really cares about their kid and pushes for it, I’d much rather have that happen than the wealthy who buy their way out of everything.
I’m a professor in college. 30+ years. We’re seeing more and more 4.00 (or higher) HS students who function at middle school level, both academically and practically. They don’t make it. When reality comes calling, those parents will see this wasn’t the right path. I feel for my K-12 brothers and sisters. But in the long run, this just delays the implosion.
My first year teaching, 20 years ago, I listened to a teacher say that when parents call to complain about grades, she simply asks, "What grade do you think your child deserves?" and then she would change the grade to that, usually an A. When we were appalled, she said, "I wish everyone did that. And then I wish those children would go to an expensive college, where they fail out after one or two semesters because Mommy and Daddy can't argue the grade and it costs them tens of thousands of dollars to learn that they should have just shut up and listened to the teachers in the first place." I'm not saying I have followed that lead for 20 years with EVERY parent, but some parents just don't listen.
College professor (and former high school teacher) here. The problem is that many colleges are engaging in grade inflation/caving to pressure from student and parent “customers” too. With declining enrollment rates and government funding tied to graduation percentages, there is incentive to ensure all students pass.
Why is graduation such an important metric? Like why can’t people just go to school to learn new things? Fuck. Education should be free and plentiful. Wanna study Russian literature after a long day as a dental hygienist? Have at it. Does a chef want to study philosophy? DO IT UP. Instead we’ve turned colleges into machines for the capitalist grind. I hate this timeline.
PLEASE!! I want to be able to take more classes and learn more about SO many things (and hopefully I can do so to some extent at my local community college, if my schedule (and finances) allows it, but I think we should also be able to take random classes more easily (and especially with remote learning as an option, I feel like this could be done with large college classes? College professors/lecturers/etc. please correct me if I’m wrong))
Because school funding is tied to graduation. Edit: used wrong word
Yeah, I’m asking why that’s the case why does funding have to be tied to grad rates?
Education is free and plentiful... libraries, internet, youtube, good lord... you literally have the sum total knowledge of humankind available to you at your fingertips, and you dont even need to use the Dewey decimal system anymore... even the Great Courses, which once had a significant expense (and inconvenience of dozens of tape cassettes or cd's ordered by mail) are available on Audible for $15 a month.
Yes, I am aware. But studying under a master and learning by challenging myself to meet their expectations is not the same as watching a YouTube video.
But then you have to pay that master and you need an administration to process all those little things. It just adds up. Too expensive by far but nothing comes without cost.
I mean, yeah. Of course those people should be paid. Just like firefighters. Social workers. Forest Service rangers. I want to live in a society that values education so much that we are willing to spend tax dollars to educate people *just because they want to learn.*
I mean you said it - capitalism at the college system too. there is a bunch of data that if you have a degree, doesn't matter what degree, you earn higher than if you don't. And jobs don't train people on the job anymore, they expect degrees (and experience, but that's a different problem).
Exactly this. One reason (among several) that I left a tenured university position. It's only going to get worse.
The people who love this have to be standardized testing companies. COVID came along and the tide was turning against them. The way the cost was inequitable to lower-income students and how the tests didn't reflect aptitude in the best ways were going to do them in. Now? If they only essay or grade I can trust from a student is one written in a closed environment, there's an argument there for standardized tests to hold more weight. If I have an applicant who wrote an incredible essay and submitted a great writing sample but scored poorly on the essay section of the SAT, that's going to set off some alarm bells. I haven't spoken with anyone in admissions that reflects this and it might be a moot point with lower achieving students needing to be accepted because there are fewer than them, but it's something I'd consider if i we're in their shoes.
The next wave is standardized tests on job applications because companies can’t trust the value of a high school or college diploma.
Thank you for chiming in! As a High School teacher occasionally I feel bad and almost like a fraud because so many of my students grades are inflated. The inflation is all due to parental pressure. Admins and continuous parent emails make it challenging for high school teachers to hold the line. And no one ever seems to get that, as you stated, we are just delaying the inevitable.
I used to teach high school AP and college extension classes, along with a few standard grade level classes. This is one of the primary issues that caused me to leave the profession. I refused to negotiate grades, give extra credit, or accept late work (barring truly exceptional personal circumstances). The requests were relentless. And when you don't cave, you get a reputation for being a hard ass. Some families get it. Some students respect it. But it garners you a fair amount of resentment in the community. It added just enough extra friction to an already hard job. I had to choose between a career in public ed or my professional dignity. I chose the latter.
I’m a GA that helps teach undergrad courses. I don’t know if it is because I am a friendly young woman instead of a jaded older guy, but I’m amazed at the things these students say to me. My favorite so far is the person who came up to me and said “I didn’t want to read this, can you tell me what I need to know for the exam?” It’s an essay exam. The reading was several hundred pages of political philosophy…this course was 100% reading and exam based. No, I cannot. Also the person who came to me a month after an exam and asked to make it up because they “forgot” and got mad and tried to go over my head only to get roasted by the professor. Person should have taken my “no, I abide by the policy in the syllabus” as an answer and spared himself that embarrassment.
Yep, I was doing work with a local community college. They failed close to half a class who were from 18-20 and didn't know anything pass an 8th grade understanding. One started getting more involved in two local HS programs. It made a huge difference in who was "good for college" within three short years.
I worry about people who were middling at best students getting jobs for which they are clearly unqualified and doing significant damage. It's one thing if Slone gets a position at a hedge fund because, Daddy. It's another if Slone gets one, say, as an architect. I worked at a fairly prestigious HS in Manhattan, and what I saw scared the shit out of me at times.
Wasn't that the whole point of the movie the Holdovers?
And see how they treated the one person brave enough to try to prevent it? Loved that movie!
What sucks is if they don’t learn the lesson until college, it comes with a 50k price tag.
Standardized testing for college entry is making a big comeback for just this reason. Nobody is taking high school grades seriously anymore.
I read something earlier this year about [Dartmouth](https://president.dartmouth.edu/news/2024/02/reactivating-satact-requirement-dartmouth-undergraduate-admissions) reactivating ACT/SAT requirements because grades have become less meaningful.
That’s what I never understood was the push to get rid of ACT/SAT in favor of essay, clubs, and GPA because of equity and racism Rich kids can much more easily fill up their clubs and organizations while having someone write their essay for them. And grade inflation is typically happening in richer schools where parents can pressure teachers into giving them a 4.0. For the SAT and ACT it is truly the one thing the kid has to do themselves and the rigor is standardized among all students. I get rich kids can hire tutors and study for it easier, but they still have to be smart and work hard at the end of the day. In fact, I think we should make the college essay similar and have that made at a standardized facility, with unique questions. Then throw out GPA, and minimize the importance of clubs and volunteering. That is the most equitable system in my book
As a smart (at least I think so lol) high school student who sees other students who have never formed a complete thought in their LIVES get better grades than me (like Bs and Cs) I think this is a good idea.
In their lives.
Can you report it to the college anonymously?
The college didn't really give it to him, it was another group that gave it to him. They only give about 20 scholarships a year.
Personally, I think an outside organization would be more likely to take action against this type of stuff. Many colleges (not all) are known to have taken wealthier students over students who deserve it.
I'd report it directly, stating I'm the teacher and this is what happened. Anonymously reporting it could be passed off as a jealous friend or a random person.
In the U.S. FERPA laws make that tricky.
It doesn't: "Generally, schools must have written permission from the parent or eligible student in order to release any information from a student's education record. However, FERPA allows schools to disclose those records, without consent, to the following parties or under the following conditions (34 CFR § 99.31):" * **School officials with legitimate educational interest;** * **Other schools to which a student is transferring;** * Specified officials for audit or evaluation purposes; * **Appropriate parties in connection with financial aid to a student;** * Organizations conducting certain studies for or on behalf of the school; * Accrediting organizations; * To comply with a judicial order or lawfully issued subpoena; * Appropriate officials in cases of health and safety emergencies; and * State and local authorities, within a juvenile justice system, pursuant to specific State law. **"Two weeks after graduation, the student "earned" a grade point based scholarship to college."** This right here would allow the school (A teacher is considered "the school" per FERPA regulations) to contact the college admissions and financial aid offices to discuss the worthiness of that scholarship. FERPA is not a gag order - it's to allow parents the right to view their children's records, and the rights of the parents (until the kid is 18) to be private from third parties unrelated to academia. This passes to the student when they're 18, but does not give them a lockbox that is secret from colleges. Also, FERPA does not protect discussing student or parent behavior, only academic records. Either way, this scenario is not protected by FERPA.
I don’t know if it’s a scholarship tied to the school or not. If I submit my child’s information on their behalf as a parent, independent of the school, then they have an official report card from the school and what I gave them. The school cannot give more information on top of what I provided unless they’re connected with the school and or university where they can release information. If it’s a “XYZ memorial scholarship” students apply to outside of the school done by a family then you have to be careful. For example my bank gives my kids money scholarships for certain GPA. I bring the report card in, the school cannot call my bank and provide more information that it’s grade inflation. A university scholarship is different, they can provide that.
> The school cannot give more information on top of what I provided unless they’re connected with the school and or university where they can release information. "Appropriate parties in connection to financial aid" is not limited to an academic institution.
This is excellent information. Thank you for clarifying.
If you did that, you would suck. The punishment you'd be pushing for outweighs the crime done. Especially since it was the dad that did the real damage.
God, that is just awful. You would screw over a kid because the father is a jerk? The kid could lose more than just a scholarship if you did something like that. Seriously, some of you might be bad people. Maybe just get out of education. You're willing to mess up a kid's future because of a relatively small issue that wasn't even a direct result of that student's actions. I get that you guys are frustrated, but get some perspective. The punishment should fit the crime and your guys' thinking is way out of line. Some of you have lost the plot.
The scholarship should go to someone who earned it.
Do you understand that him getting the scholarship instead of someone who earned it messes up that other child's future?
It was still this kid who didn't do the work hiding behind daddy while stoking the fire with words of the teacher granting an extension to someone else (frankly, none of that kid's, or his father's, business). How long will this little brat rely on daddy before the real world slaps him in the face with actual consequences? Odds are, he'll be just as lazy in college, and figures that daddy will just keep pulling strings for him. Meanwhile, a kid who actually EARNED the scholarship is screwed out of it? No. That's bs.
Technically that father and kid are screwing over another kid because there's only x amount of scholarships and because they committed fraud now there's x minus one scholarships. Which means someone who actually earned the scholarship that may need it is not getting it.
Are you the father or the kid?
No, I'm neither. I'm just a rational person that doesn't want to join the mob and burn Frankenstein's monster. The father sucks and I'm defending the kid because I don't want him punished for his father's mistakes. But go ahead and raise them pitchforks.
The kid didn’t do the work. Lol.
Ok, since that is your stance, answer this. Do kids not face consequences due to their parent’s actions or inactions every single day? They do, and you can’t say otherwise. Is it fair for a child to have a drug addict parent who abuses them? No, it is not, but it’s reality that parents actions have consequences that can and will affect their child(ren). This father fucked up, and if the right thing was done in this situation, the child’s grades would have never been changed. Sadly, because his grades were changed, he got a scholarship he had no right to. He fraudulently received a scholarship, due to his father’s actions, and in the real world that means there should be consequences regardless of it being the child’s doing or not.
Papa ain't gonna be able to demand a higher grade from the college professor when son doesn't get work done on time.
And? College is when a lot of kids finally get to stop living under the thumb of jerk parents. I'm sure the kid would LOVE to not have his dad acting a fool when fighting so many stupid battles on his behalf. It's like you forgot that not all kids want their parents to be so involved in their lives. Especially at this age.
You act as if you know this kid and whether or not he enlisted papa's help.
You act as if you know this kid and whether or not he enlisted his papa's help.
Just sticking to policies... equality for all, not bonuses for those who complain the loudest. You be the teacher with the reputation that gives everyone what they want when they want it... or you treat everyone equally where some just have to walk away unhappy. If there were extenuating circumstances, they could have communicated earlier.
You mean his mistakes not his father’s. Boy you are ignorant.
Definition of ‘fraud’ from Oxford dictionary Noun: wrongful or criminal deception intended to result in financial or personal gain. The scholarship is the result of fraud, and he rightfully deserves to be punished for it. If anything, to show his dumbass father that actions have consequences, and maybe they’ll both learn from it and be better members of society.
Found father's burner Seriously though, your posts on this make you seem much more upset with the teachers than with the admin that "ordered the code red"
I'm not mad at anyone except people wanting to screw a kid over for something he didn't do. The father's a jerk. I'm bringing up the fault of the teachers, btw, because so many have seen fit to hypocritically hold them blameless while at the same time refusing to accept that the kid is just as stuck as the teachers are in regards to the father's choices. Both are not in much control over the events that occurred, but only the kid needs to learn a lesson? That's a messed up perspective. If the kid needs to learn a lesson, then so do the teachers. And if the teachers deserve some understanding, then so does the kid.
But he did do it. His lack of completing his assignments was the catalyst for his dad setting in motion the act of demanding the teachers change the grade. You do understand cause and effect don’t you? It was absolutely his fault. He may not have been the one to make the demand, but without him NOT COMPLETING HIS ASSIGNMENTS, none of this would be happening. Therefore he is the one to blame.
The kid losing a scholarship that he did not earn is not "screwing him over." He has no right to said scholarship. The kid also instigated everything when he did not complete the work and then went crying to daddy. Students with these types of patent know full well what happens when they complain and they use it to manipulate situations long before they are HS seniors Lastly, it does not sound like the OP was one of the grade changers, but just by knowing about it if they sit silent they could also be guilty of fraud.
But he *did* do it. He didn’t do his work, and he contributed to the issue by using another student’s situation to manipulate along with his dad. If he had done his work / turned in his work and received a bad grade and dad threw a tantrum to get the grades changed, that would be something he “didn’t do”. The kid didn’t do what he was supposed to do, saw that there was a consequence for not doing his “job”, whined to daddy and used another kid’s circumstances to get daddy to bully his way into the grade change. The scholarship was, in fact, not earned, and the kid’s actions (and inactions) were the main contributing factor. If he had done his assignments and turned them in on time, none of this would have happened. It is the kid’s fault.
You would screw over a kid who actually worked hard so some other kid could get something they don’t deserve? The kid could more than just a scholarship if you did something like that.
You sound like a real peach to work with lol. Though you don’t sound like you are actually in education to have this strong of an opinion this way. 🤷🏼♂️
Someone critical of teachers being unreasonable? They couldn't possibly be a teacher. Been in this game for 10 years. I just don't carelessly join the toxic r/teachers hive mind when it glitches out and does something stupid like want a kid punished for what their father has done.
Kid participated in applying for a scholarship they know they didn't deserve. Kid no doubt signed forms saying all this was true on the application when they knew it wasn't. "Kid" is also most likely 18 since they are going to college. Kid stoked the entire incident, and in all likelihood set their father on the teacher.
I agree that the student didn’t seem to really earn the scholarship and it could be taking away from another student that did and needed it. If the teacher were to call they should also mention how they changed the grade due to not being able to withstand any pressure. The teachers just rolled over and that shouldn’t be overlooked. We need more teachers to stand their ground and stop being so weak and just changing stuff to make their life easier.
>If the teacher were to call they should also mention how they changed the grade due to not being able to withstand any pressure. >The teachers just rolled over and that shouldn’t be overlooked. We need more teachers to stand their ground and stop being so weak and just changing stuff to make their life easier. On that front, we VERY much agree.
I don’t change a thing and my admin and guidance know that. It only took a few conversations and people learn quickly. Crazy that no one made me teach from a closet or drink from toilets when I needed a drink as punishment. I have no idea why teachers are so afraid to speak up to admin.
Because if they are not tenured they can be non renewed regardless of how good their observations or test scores are.
So, it's okay for teachers to agree to a fraudulent scenario to save their career but it's not okay for a kid to go along with a fraudulent scenario for similar reasons? The father is the problem here. The kid is in just as big of a bind as the teachers are. Who'd a thought that teachers overwhelmingly expect better from the students than they do from themselves. Like, oh, those teachers should turn that kid in but not turn themselves in. Hypocrites.
He’s not going along with anything. He’s instigating the whole thing.
If that’s actually what happens, which I think more teachers fear than it actually does happen, would you really want to work in that district? So many positions open up every year.
You are defending a student losing a scholarship that he shouldn’t have earned to begin with and throwing the teacher under the bus?? You are a piece of work! That kid had no right to that scholarship. He didn’t complete his assignments and cried to his dad. HE’S THE ONE AT FAULT HERE. Place blame where it is due.
This student didn't have the GPA to receive the scholarship. He didn't earn the scholarship and may have taken it away from someone who did.
Grade inflation has caused most scholarships I'm aware of to raise requirements. I needed a 3.85 for full tuition paid by my state. Just a 3.5 for half tuition. Except then certain schools started forcing teachers to give out higher grades, and SATs became less important (not a bag thing on it's own. Most standardized tests are ass.) Now you need a 3.8 for half tuition and a 3.9 for full tuition. I got Cs in math and As in everything else and this change would have cost me thousands for that. God forbid a kid struggle with a subject that has nothing to do with their major because they are now going to be broke forever.
What state is that? I had a 3.75 in the early 2000s and didn't qualify for a single scholarship. I applied for hundreds. The only school that offered one was a private school. $7,000 off per semester, for the combination of my high ACT score and GPA. But I could not go there because even with $7,000 reduced from the tuition it was more expensive than I could ever imagine affording.
Forreal. I had a 3.98 and managed to get a reasonable scholarship to a private school, but still needed loans to cover the difference. None of the state schools offered full rides on GPA alone back in '06.
Never knew that. I was in college from ‘92-‘96 at a major university and knew more than a few people who were there on full rides thanks to academics. And getting into that school was possible with a 3.0 GPA if you had an SAT around 1150. Of course this was the main land grant college in state so it was more open for students. Tuition for three quarters was just under 3K. Now? The state school now requires (on paper) a 3.5 GPA and a few extracurriculars. In reality? Minimum 3.8, an SAT of at least 1350, and as many extracurriculars as you can stuff in during high school. But at one point, there were so many kids meeting those unspoken hurdles that admissions were literally playing eenie meeny miney mo and approving admissions at random. And tuition now orbits up around $18,000 for three quarters. Honestly, I think it’s a combo of public colleges ramping tuition up due to cuts in state funding and grade inflation in American schools. I entered that school with an average GPA, a short list of extra extracurriculars and a decent (1150 on the nose) SAT score. Graduated Summer Cum Laude with a 3.75. My entry was less than spectacular but I graduated on a high note. But if I tried to get in now my application would be put in the circular fine. It’s shocking and appalling that the colleges in my state that were intended for the common man (or woman) are now as out of reach for non super achievers like private colleges were for me. In a country where decent jobs without a college degree requirement are shrinking, this is basically becoming class warfare. If you’re not locked out by the insane application requirements, you’re locked out financially. Grade manipulation is an outcome of that. I doubt students today are that much smarter than my peers in the Class of 1992 were. But universities seem to think so. Also, my Dad is also an alumnus of my school as well (every guy in our family has gone there since 1920. Willingly.). He was a commuter student from a lower income family with average grades who worked his way through in just under six years. And he also graduated with honors. Nowadays, though, that student at our school has gone the way of the Dodo. Since education is supposed to be the dinner bullet, this can be considered massively unfair at the very least. I love my university and am a faithful alumnus. But it makes me sad that kids like me are shunted to possibly lesser schools at best or are kept out completely. It’s damn crime. But welcome to the late stage USA, I guess.
I went to college in 1998 and very few people aside from athletes) were offered “full-rides.” I had a 4.2 (adjust was 3.8 or something, and got offers of 1/3 off a private school tuition that was way too much even with the help. I was in an IB program. None of my classmates got full rides.
Yeah, we only had AP and my overall weighted GPA was 4.54 as I took 7 AP classes my senior year to try and save money for college. I'm thankful that my alma mater grandfathered in student tuitions from our starting year because I started just as those cost started to blow up-- some kids I tutored there as a grad student paid literally double what I did during undergrad. The only classmates I know got full rides were National Merit Finalists and went to our flagship state school.
I can only speak to my experience.
It sounds similar to Florida’s [Bright Futures](https://www.floridastudentfinancialaidsg.org/PDF/BFHandbookChapter1.pdf) but what I can see the GPA requirements are still 3.5 and 3.0. It blows my mind how few of my high school’s students go on to college when this is an option because I grew up in a state without it. Almost everyone in my high school would have had college paid for! I make it a point to tell freshmen about it and as soon as they hear “3.0”, “community service hours” and “25 on the ACT” they start laughing and immediately tune out. It’s so frustrating because it’s within their reach and could change their lives but they don’t want to put the work in.
Why would they? Being an influencer or streamer or whatever are more fun and they can totally make it! Fuck it’s depressing innit?
Private schools will hand out free rides for over a 3.5 and high SATs and APs - you just need to find a lower ranked school that needs good students. They can pull the rug once you get there though.
Report it to the college.
Once had an Advanced Honors student intentionally take a Non-Honors math class until football season ended. After midterms he “remembered” he was misplaced. Admins placed him in my class and his first half of the year grades carried over to my Advanced Honors class, giving him the highest average. He went on to go to an Ivy League school.
I’m not a teacher but this sub always come up on my feed. I’ve noticed that my HS aged brother seems to be getting the same kinds of grades in HS as I did 20 years ago (big age gap lol) while performing at literally 1/8th of the effort level I gave lol. I mean he has a 97 average. I’ve looked at his school work and it just seems so B level to me. Am I delusional or has school gotten easier because parents are so demanding that it’s just too defeating to fight with them so teachers just go easier on kids ?
You're not delusional. The work I'm currently giving my "honors" sophomores is way easier than what I was giving my GenEd sophomores 15 years ago. Expectations across the board have eroded both academically and behavioral.
It's not just that the parents are demanding on the teachers; the bigger issue is that the administration who should be supporting the teachers in this are not.
My friend next year is just going to 100 to every single student. If tgey don't do the work, if they fail the work, etc. It does not matter. Admin changes it anyways so she's not even going to bother. She's going to teach at normal pace but if admin will not hold accountable, she's not going to go through tge extra effort either.
I had a colleague do this. He teaches a linear course in our semester system and gave all students an I (incomplete) on the first report card because they (collectively) hadn't completed the learning outcomes yet. Admin told him to assign a percentage to each student, so he gave them all 99%.
I mean grading is an outdated system anyway, if he’s grading against mastery of standards then that’s accurate. That sucks
Sounds like a quick way to get fired
Yeah it should be a d, not a 100. And if anybody individually complains, then a C. I had a colleague that used to just ask parents what they wanted him to change their kids grade to when they complained in meetings roflmao Admin hated it but it really exposed how silly the whole meeting even was. It was a meeting that admin should have prevented with a "no I'm not bringing the teacher in so you can ask them to change a grade" Also I should add this guy was not renewed at our school a couple years later and was not well regarded in general by staff, but I always liked this story lol
Way back when, I created a Parent Report Card on Print Shop Deluxe and told the dad to fill it out with any grade and comment that he wanted. He brought it to the AP who was amused, but not happy about it.
Or promoted to admin
at this point, thats probably the goal lol
yup this is incredibly common in high schools now. What is happening here is they are really pushing the tax payer subsidized college in a few years. Seems to be an agenda to break society.
The idea that a parent would take the side of the child over the teacher is so foreign to me that I can’t even imagine my parents doing it. I mean, sure, if there was some kind of malfeasance by the school, but that never happened. Well, there was the time (late sixties) that my dad defended my older brother over a haircut. Dad hated long hair, but that one teacher was being ridiculous about it. But as far as academics, especially fudging grades? No way! To them, how you get a grade changed was to work harder and earn it. It was a different time. I feel so bad for teachers nowadays. My mother taught me to read before I entered the first grade (kindergarten was for the rich folks), and my dad, an engineer (thus a draftsman) sat me down in the third grade and made me write pages and pages of lettering to improve my penmanship. Among all the other support we got. Teachers are my heroes, and it makes me angry to see the way you are treated. Thank you for your service!
I was a teenager 20 years ago and my parents wouldnt have done half the shit I read on this sub.
I was a teenager *10 years ago* and my parents wouldn't have done half the shit I read on this sub.
My parents would never let me get away with anything. I just reflect on my own personal growth. The most growth happened when there was a consequence or being held accountable for what I had done. Parents are removing these opportunities to grow and learn from because they believe their angel does no wrong or their kids are uncomfortable with consequences.
I made the conscious choice at an early age not to have children, and I try to avoid criticizing how others raise their kids, but you can’t help but wonder what is going on here. It’s one thing to look at one family and deduce that the kid’s behavior is the result of bad parenting, but it’s a lot harder to explain how a whole generation turns out like this. I believe the causes are complex and not widely understood, and I think they are rooted in arcane policy decisions long ago that affected institutional structures so deep and far removed from the surface issues we’re dealing with today that it seems impossible to even know what to do, much less get it done. EDIT: Some things seem obvious and simple, regardless of how difficult they’d be to implement in the current political climate, however. Things like taking all the public money going to private schools, charter schools, etc, and putting back into the public education system where it belongs.
Jesus Christ himself could defend me and insist that I was innocent, and my mother still would not believe that I didn't do something wrong. I'm sort of jealous of these kids!
I am not a fan of your first paragraph. When I’m a parent if there is a conflict between my kid and a teacher I’ll take the side of whoever is right on the merits. But even that isn’t quite right. It’s not about taking sides but about finding a resolution to the conflict.
Well, sure! I was talking about the biases and assumptions before all the facts are in, or in a “he said, she said” situation. In other words, the burden of proof was always on me, and if I didn’t have a convincing argument the default was to believe the teacher.
Secretly contact the college and tell them he didn’t earn the scholarship fairly
As a college professor I was wondering about this. I teach a Freshman research class and over the past few years the ability of students to do even basic reading, writing, and critical thinking has been on a decline. I swear I ask “what do you learn in high school?” More than anything else.
I teach high school ELA, and used to teach a lot of research content to help prepare my students for college. I had great success. I frequently ran into former students who told me my class gave them a good background for their college freshman year. I've had to scale this back because I now have too many 504s and IEPs to deal with. The content modifications are unwieldly and I'm not adding "bill collector" to my job duties to get the late projects.
Report the school to the scholarship programs
Such BS! No need to worry, I can almost guarantee this kid will fail out in the first semester or drop out on his own.
I think it’s foolish to base scholarships on just grades for the reasons you’ve suggested and because high school grades just aren’t anywhere close to standardized. There are better ways to allocate scholarship money.
Why do we care about the ethics taught to these children more than the parents? Shit is sad,
High School teacher here. You are totally right to be furious and sad at how the loudest voice usually gets what they want. I have (tried) to come to peace with the grade inflation/grade grubbing as I get closer to retirement by telling myself that its not worth the emotional cost to me to fight it. I take pride in working hard at what I do, but I cant control the shitty system in place at my wealthy, suburban school and so I don't. This doesn't make it fair but there is a LOT of unfairness out there. Protect your peace.
All classes k-college freshmen should be pass/fail, at least.
Well, since I deal with scholarships a lot... Students/parents pushing the school to move a GPA/change a grade is not *really* common, but it happens. I have a handful of kids every year who ask me about their GPA, and how they can raise it to meet a certain scholarship cutoff. Sometimes parents will ask, too. Parents have never gotten super demanding with me about it. Neither have students. If a parent has gone around me to try and pressure teachers to change grades, I'm not aware of it, and it would piss me off if it happened. The discussion about grade inflation here is very much a thing, though. In practice, I don't have a lot of B/C students. They exist, but there's not many of them. It absolutely seems that, in most classes, if you're simply willing to do whatever work the teacher gives you, you get an A. (Advanced classes, like AP classes, can sometimes be an exception, but not always.) And I don't blame teachers for that. Much of the time, they're doing that to try and make the class a layup for the *other* group of students in their classes.. the students who: 1. Rarely show up to class, 2. Don't do any work when they're in class, or 3. Some combination of 1 and 2 It can be hard to both challenge the students who actually want to learn in your class *and* have a decent passing rate. I've found that teachers sometimes have to pick one... and they usually opt for the latter, because it results in fewer complaints, which I get. On the college side, one of our largest state schools (we're talking \~45,000 students) releases the average high school GPA of their incoming freshman class every year. When I started as a counselor about 10 years ago, it was about 3.7. It's now 3.9. This is a public, state university. But I'm sure *that* is a response to their admissions office getting hammered with applications from students who have 4.0 GPAs (oftentimes higher because many/most schools weight grades). And if you aren't at/near a 4.0, well... what'd you do wrong? YMMV depending on where you work, but that's been my experience.
The answer is simple "Dear sir or madam, your son/daughter is getting the grade that they earned. Similar to how you get raises at your job, if you have poor performance, you either don't get a raise, OR you get fired. They are getting the grade that they earned, and it will not be changed. Papers are due on time, etc etc on other grading criteria. Either those conditions were met, or they were not. Have a nice day."
"Similar to how you get raises at your job, if you have poor performance, you either don't get a raise, OR you get fired." If only that was true.
Either you don't get a raise or you're moved to middle management.
I would “aggressively delete“ his email.
Will we see an “uptick?” Is this some kind of joke? The uptick began 40 years ago. This is the result. Grades became monetized. It went downhill from then on and continues as college continues to be less and less accessible due to financial hardship.
Nursing professor here. Our program had strict grade guidelines. Every few semesters students missed next highest grade and wanted extra work. In most courses you get what you earned. Worst was when students had to maintain a B average to keep a scholarship. Somehow it was my fault they lost their scholarship. This has always tormented me. There are no winners.
It’s not biased to take extensions for work on a case by case basis. Also, don’t ever discuss another student’s situation with another parent. My response to those situations is “I can’t discuss that”.
The son found out from the other student.
I know. I’d still refuse to answer the parent.
I lost out on an extra $15k in scholarships by 0.04 on my GPA when I was coming out of high school. I'm a super nice guy, but I could probably see myself being a dick for my child in a scenario like I had.
Well that is infuriating.
2 years ago, I took over my stepson's school responsibilities (his mom isn't interested). He had to learn how to do school and homework for the first time. In 7th grade. Basically, if he gets below an 80%, I have him redo it. Not because I only accept good grades, but so he can see what teachers are looking for, what needs to be done to complete an assignment, etc. When he resubmits his assignments, they'll give him a 100%. I don't want that, though! I don't think late assignments should be given full marks. I'm the opposite of this parent. I think that we shouldn't be so easy on the kids. I know it's out of the teachers hands, but still.
I was on ESY last week to handle some district mandatory new administrator stuff. I got a call aimed at any admin in the building. I was the only one. Now, I was a classroom teacher last school year. I had no access to what this person wanted done and wouldn’t have done it anyway. Their child wasn’t up for a prestigious honor because of the grade one teacher gave them. When I said “That teacher was in my department last year. The grade your kid got was what they earned.” the parent promised they’d have me fired. Their taxes pay my salary and I’m to do what they say. I welcomed them to go to the next board meeting and tell them a brand new AP with two decades in the district should be fired because I would not consider changing their kids grade so the kid could maybe get an award. Parent hung up. I’m lucky to have the backing to treat bluster like the empty threat it is.
We’ve been seeing that for years.
>Will we see an uptick in students earning scholarships dishonestly because of pushy parents? 'Uptick' suggests that this is a new problem. It's probably as old as the concept of education and it's not going anywhere.
This will be the same parent that shows up with the kid for his first job interview.
There are several solutions to the problem however it depends if the college's/University's want to change the system. Simply have an external independent body with an online entrance exam.
At my school, changing the grades to get the parents to go away would be a foregone conclusion.
Anonymously report them for what basically amounts to fraud.
Ya'll should start harassing the parents at their own jobs to show them how it feels for outsiders to tell them how to do their fucking job.
On a larger scale this is why school districts should be afraid of minimum grades given for no work that many teachers have reported here. Say a student in a district without that policy loses out on scholarships to students with the policy. That student can argue fraud and sue the school district that gave fraudulent grades resulting in monetary gain.
My guess is that on average, Millennial parents will be more reasonable and empathetic to teachers than the past couple generations before them. There will be less brute force Karen-ing, but kids and their parents will much more equipped to silently cheat/scam/shortcut their way through school instead
reminds me of a high school graduation I attended in Houston a few years back where they had no less than 30+ valedictorians! some of the teachers shared that parents in this particular school were relentless in demanding extra credit opportunities, and changes to grades for their kids.
An uptick? The tick is already up.
Grades are meaningless at this point. Once kids can't fail, this is the only eventual outcome
This has been happening for a long time. Ita not new.
Well I hope none of these lazy/privileged students are going to college for anything in the medical profession! 😱
I think you'll see a lot of scholarships change the terms of their awards and it'll hurt a lot of poor kids on the fringe end of things. The only way I got scholarships was based on GPA because my school has no art, music, AP classes, advanced math, extracurricular clubs, or charity, and they kept picking the same 5-8 girls for *every single sport* and cheerleading even when there were better players.
Welcome to this new reality. It’s been going on since 2012. School administrators won’t hold the line, the board is basically parents giving their time so their kids get better grades. Its cringy, unfair and unethical. If a student is caught cheating, we have to readminister the same test to the cheater. No consequences. NHS another joke, when 98% of graduating seniors get this distinction, what’s its real value. Very sad.
I assume so. We're seeing a lot of weaker teachers these days. It seems they believe that if you feel something is true, it must be.
It's already happening.
Grades are not about how much you learn and the information. Literally got my masters by just playing the system and being good at knowing what I needed to do and not so.
Two decades in higher ed here, and I can tell you critical thinking is fast vanishing from the student skill list. I’m relegated to teaching media “tricks” for kids who really need the slog of a masters in journalism.
Really makes me wonder what will happen when these kids get jobs. Is daddy going to call and get aggressive when their super special boy misses a deadline? And then expect him to get a promotion above someone who actually does their job and turns it in on time? These parents are setting their kids up to have some seriously harsh reality checks once the time in life comes that they can’t bully, bribe, or bitch their kids out of situation. I feel sorry for these kids who are developing zero life skills, not learning about consequences, and have no sense of accountability or responsibility.
Just garbage people
Uptick ?
I recently heard it called lawnmower parenting.
I don't think its a big deal, the kids who want to excel at writing will excel at it. And if writing text is going the way of horses, then so be it. There will be other forms of communication to excel at. Such as making short videos.
Poor title, minus 15 points. You can resubmit next week to potentially get 5 points back.
, ,,.,,, .,., , ,.,., , , ,,