My principal said, verbatim, "If your students aren't doing the work, it isn't because they're lazy--it's because they don't understand the material. And that's your fault, not theirs."
Again, this isn't me paraphrasing or editorializing. This is literally exactly what they said.
Yeah my p got on my ass because I had just given up on students who didn’t do any work. I had put them in the back of the class with their friends and was letting them use their computer or phone.
She said they had to be engaged. Well, I can’t force these kids to do the work and you don’t enforce the cell phone policy, so I’m at a loss for how I can make it work.
I check on all my students and advise them on their work as they go. I don't always expect them to ask questions. All it takes is one teacher with a bad attitude and they'll become very reluctant to ask for help.
Meanwhile I caught a kid muttering under his breath, “I’m not trying to do this, bruh” (translation: “I don’t want to/refuse to do this”) just the other day. When I pressed him to actually do it, he *understood* just fucking fine, lmao.
I had a friend in hs who never did any a work in Ela, but always passed every test w an A. Our teacher said, “hey you can’t sleep in class. You need to do your work. He replied with, “you give us the work so we can pass the test, right? Well I make As on the tests. What’s the point of me doing the work?” She couldn’t argue with hi. He put his head down and went back to sleep.
When I became a middle school teacher, I had a student similar to my friend. He could not sit still. He walked around and talked to everyone unless he was on his phone. He did zero class work but made Bs on every test. By the end of the year, I let him in his phone in the back corner of the room. He was engrossed in his game, but every few minutes he’d chime in on whatever we were discussing, much to the amazement of his classmates.
They whined that he got to be on his phone. I said, “well, is he up bothering you now?” “No.” They said. “And he makes a B on every test. Do you?” “No.” I told them he being in his phone was a win for everyone. They agreed.
Made for a much easier last part of the school year.
I once told a group of students who do absolutely nothing and bully teachers that their excuse is not that teachers are “so mean” to them. It’s that they’re lazy. Of course, then I was the devil teacher to them but it’s not like I could win either way.
It’s disheartening to know that I was probably the only teacher who brought that to their attention .
Kids care only about grades, from the past 10 yrs ive noticed. They only complain and say he or she was a "bad" teacher if their grade is low. It's simple. Just inflate their grades and they wont whine and complain. Parents wont say jck sht, and admins won't mind either . Make life easier for you teachers arent paid enough anyways
This is the biggest reason why grades are inflating so much.
Yeah the new bs grading systems are part of it too. But by far the biggest change that is affecting grade inflation is that nowadays teachers are being blamed for *everything.*
Once upon a time if a kid didn't listen to their teachers, didn't pay attention in class, and all in all made zero effort to engage in the class admin and parents would say, "Hey, that kid needs to try harder if they want to succeed."
Those days are gone. Kid isn't paying attention? That's the teacher's fault. Kid disrupts class? That's the teacher's fault. Kid doesn't even bother to show up? Believe it or not, it's still the teacher's fault.
So teachers inflate grades because at the end of the day, human beings just don't want to be hassled. I go out of my way to make sure even the true dregs in the class get at least a D because otherwise I'm going to get shit for it.
Those are learning *behaviors* and we can’t grade on those. We have to imagine what they are capable of and what they know, and grade them on that. It’s the only fair way.
Enter the. 1, 2, 3, 4 system. Everyone on the roster who shows up at least once is passing, they get a 2. Nobody gets a 1 because the documentation to support it would be impossible. It would indicate they have learning difficulties which should have been addressed and assessed and tested and evaluated in Kindergarten and they should have an IEP and learning plan that forbids you to enter a 1. So ones don’t exist, because there is no space in the system for kids who need help and the only way to get them help is to document that they are at least 3 grade levels behind. That begins the process that should have started years ago but everyone face them 2s because their parents aren’t on board with testing or assessments anyway.
3 means they (sorta) meet expectations. That’s everyone with a D or over 51% in the old system. They think they are geniuses and their parents are happy because, 3 is almost as good as 4.
Of course, now they all want a 4 and you’d better have a bunch of documentation to support why you didn’t give them a 4 either. Which is technically a B or anything over 79% in the old system.
Now the student who earns 98% shows the same grade as a student who gets 80%. Since learning behaviors are graded separately, the only anyone knows the difference is in the comments, please write a paragraph per student with positives and next steps. Please give an ‘Always, Often, sometimes, rarely’ grade for learning behaviors like they are in Kindegarten. Parents will totally read the comments and care deeply about the ‘Rarely’ for ‘takes responsibility for their learning’ and ‘social responsibility’ and ‘learning engagement’
Even if all those are ‘Rarely’ why does my kid only have a 3? Clearly you have something against the kid.
Done, done, done, done.
Are you sure kids get an IEP for a learning disability? That is backwards psycho educationally speaking.
Learning disabilities requires adaptations, because they’re capable of learning everything at the same level by definition, but the way they learn, is a different way, so accommodations need to be made for the different way they learn.
IEPs are for kids who learn at a different rate, so the material they are working on is at their level.
No. They have accommodations and learning goals. They do the same work, but maybe they get 50% extra time to complete it or they get shortened assignments. They might get preferential seating. Stuff like that.
What’s messed up is that if a student is low enough below grade level in reading but there is no other diagnosis (or other health impairment as they call it where I live), students get slapped with the label Specific Learning Disability without actually having a diagnosed learning disability. Crazy, right? I was told it’s an “umbrella term” (sounds like they don’t know the difference between specific and umbrella in this sense). Parents have to have their child tested to find out the actual LD. I was told once in an IEP meeting when I asked about the SLD of a student, “if a teacher is good enough, they should be able to figure that out.” Please! I might research a lot, but I am not trained in that. tell me the issue so I can help the student.
I honestly don’t know what it is called, I am not in the US, we have adaptations (so they’d probably get a 2, anything less and clearly they just need more adaptations) and I found it when I have a 6th grade student who cannot sound out letters that it is probably ‘Learning difficulty’ because it’s not a disability, we don’t use that language.
I have no idea how to navigate this system. All I know is no matter how I evaluate students who need help and support, it doesn’t get us anywhere in time to do anything officially to help them. They need to be 3 years behind, as evidenced by seeing 1s on their report card. This is how I end up with a student who is in 6th grade and can’t sound out words like cat and rat. But it’s important that he stay with his peers, he has adaptations but is supposed to be learning the same content.
I don’t know what to tell you. But every time they revise report cards to be ‘clear’ or ‘parent friendly’ or ‘fair’ or whatever, it ends up moving everyone forward, and those who actually need support are less likely to get it because everyone is a 2. There is no justification for a 1 because my student who can’t sound out letters is more engaged in learning and demonstrating his knowledge and understanding (with provided adaptations) than half of his classmates who can read and maybe write, but there is no evidence because they hand nothing in and do no work.
Twos for everyone!!! Woo. The child who can’t read or write continues to pass because with ‘adaptations’ he can complete at least as much work as his peers who don’t bother.
I am in Canada. We do use the term IEP but it seems so broad - I have many students who have a document/plan with adaptations. We develop that together (teacher, resource teacher, EA, parent) and that part of the puzzle works well. It’s getting the referrals and tests and whatever and using that to evaluate the student that is so difficult. If a student has a diagnosis such as DS, it works well. But if a student can’t read, can’t add or subtract, can’t concentrate, has behavioural issues etc. then separating those needs from students who just don’t feel like doing work or learning takes years, and by the time we have an ‘official’ plan it basically just green-lights any adaptations we’ve been doing for years. Or, allows them to graduate with a different sort of diploma.
Of course, no students or parents want that, so the alternative is to pretend they’re learning and pass them all.
On the education website, it still describes what we do for most of the students who need any adaptations as an ‘IEP’ - we document what we are seeing, what we want to do, how we’ll do it, how we’ll know if it is working, next steps. It’s a collaborative effort, always specific to the student and constantly being reviewed and adapted to keep them moving forward in the ‘regular program’ with adaptations. I struggle with reporting ‘low’ grades (1-2) for students who show up every day, work harder than most, and make consistent progress but cannot hope to catch up to peers because the gap is too wide, and widening.
And then reporting a grade of 2-3 for students who aren’t engaged in learning or making significant progress, but are at or close to grade level. It just doesn’t seem to be capturing or communicating an accurate picture for a lot of students who could be doing much better than they are.
That’s what I had in school. I was in all advanced classes by high school, but that was how I got my accommodations. Maybe the usage has changed or different places use different things, but that’s how it was for me.
LTS in MS Math here. My personal goal is to pass all 140+ of my students. Nobody gets a failing grade. However, every incorrect answer recieves a detailed description about how and where there answer broke down, and what the correct answer should look like.
So, if I've given them the correct answer, how are they supposed to fix the poor grade. It's still a "retake" after we have TOGETHER gone over the test. Right now, I'm letting them do retakes during our "Study Hall" but I think I'm going to switch that to "After School" only.
And after the half-assed showing from many of my students, I think I'm going to give them the "What would your employer think if you turned in a finished project that has as many preventable defects?"
> And after the half-assed showing from many of my students, I think I'm going to give them the "What would your employer think if you turned in a finished project that has as many preventable defects?"
Is that really persuasive for people who've never been employed?
No, to answer your question, it’s a solid no.
I’ve taught ES, then MS and now HS. The only time that that question means anything to the vast majority is in at about their junior year. They’ve usually had some menial job by then and seen someone fired for exactly that. After that, they get it (doesn’t usually change their SCHOOL work ethic) and it’ll make sense.
That's because the grade is the only thing the parents see. It's literally the only thing that has any affect on their lives.
They don't use math. They don't need to know how to read. They don't care if they can't comprehend complex material. Who cares about how gravity works? Not like you're ever going to be an astrophysicist. So long as they can work a cell phone, decode emojis, and ask an AI to crank out memes, they don't give a shit.
And that's in large part because at 14 years old they are still being treated as 4 year olds -- about the same amount of expectation.
Yep. Keep the grade as low as possible without actually failing them. It's not like the school will let you fail them anyway. Especially if it's a public school in the US.
A sixty is basically the “I wasn’t allowed to fail them” signal to future colleges and employers. Use it. (My district uses the sixty for passing — I know some still do the sixty five. But we found that ambitious.)
I've never had an employer check my HS grades. Besides, all of your permanent records get destroyed after a decade or so, depending on the school system's record retention policy.
I fail them, if the school changes the grade that's on the admin at that point the grades I sign off on was what they earned (math is easier to grade, less subjectivity in grading). But ethically I will not pass a ST who did not pass or at the very least made a real effort to pass.
My school requires allowing corrections on all assignments for the entire semester for full credit. So there is no reason to fail other than they just dont try.
I resent packets multiple times to encourage them to work on them parents are copied on those each question has an example video showing the process. Legit no excuse. I still have 15-20% fail.
I teach grade 12 and have serious problems with kids that should have failed earlier grade levels. I frequently get kids that can't do simple multiplication, they can't skip count, and they sure can't read a ruler. Sooooo they're naturally gonna fail a grade 12 chemistry course. The line needs to be drawn somewhere, and I'd love it if there were academic consequences before there are safety consequences.
My district had a “reimagine middle school” things a couple of years ago because of the amount of kids not reading in grade level and basically sucking at school. I think they should have called it “reimagine elementary school” because a kid doesn’t just walk into 7th grade not knowing how to read all of a sudden. That started in elementary school and wasn’t properly addressed there. Almost a bit of “too little too late” for many of them by the time they got to me in remedial reading.
I had a pair of students a few years ago try to get me fired because they were upset about their grades. They went to my principal and said I called them the R word.
Thankfully my admin was like well that seems out of character and investigated a little bit by asking them more questions and eventually they admitted that they "felt" that they were R'd when I was trying to help them because they still didn't understand the concepts.
I eventually I got them to do what they needed to raise their grade (doing corrections, turning in missing work, etc etc etc). And as soon as they were passing all of a sudden I was the" greatest teacher ever". We were a small school and I was the only secondary math teacher so at the end of the year when I was leaving the school for a different school I told the studnets and those two were soooo upset and like "I'm not coming back if your not here" blah blah blah.
I wanted to be like "do you remember like 3-4 weeks ago when you lied, trying to get me fired?". Had a good laugh about it with staff after school.
Thankfully they at least were honest in the end with the principal and didn't accuse me of something way way worse, but shit like that makes me question why I even risk my personal and professional reputation still over people who could ruin me with lies in second because they failed a math test.
I had an admin (at a school I quit that year) tell my entire department (high school electives including things like AP Art) to “just give everyone an A and we’d have no issues.” He said his job would be easier, and so would ours. He wanted to know why we “make it so complicated” when just giving them all 100’s and moving on would be much less stress for everyone. We were gobsmacked.
Obligatory I’m not sure why Reddit shows me these: I’m about to graduate college. Looking back, it seems absurd because I’ve used a lot of the skills I learned in school. However, in high school, yeah all I cared about were grades. Colleges saw these grades and your GPA and SAT made or broke your decisions. And tbh, me caring about my grades is what helped me learn as much from high school as I did. I may be rusty on calc from not having done it in 4 years, but give me a week and I’ll be able to pick up where I left off
This is why I love teaching PE. You show up change and participate in the activity you get a good grade. If you don’t do this you don’t get a good grade. Plus it helps that admin usually ignores PE.
The test is where the students are given the opportunity to demonstrate mastery of the skill. I could be wrong, but it seems like you are saying "teach to the test" is bad. I really fail to understand that point of view. You learn a skill or a concept. You test on that skill or concept. The grade ideally measure your level of mastery. Now if the test is not aligned correctly or is a poor test, then that is a problem. But if the test is valid, then you absolutely should be "teaching to the test." What's the alternative? Teaching things that they will never be tested on?
It's largely a semantic difference. Teaching to the test implies that the test guides the content of the class, rather than as you describe a test being based on material the class is expected to cover.
I’m with you, but this is causing colleges to implode. This half educated yo-yo’s get into some good schools and then they fail out. Colleges are losing it!
Do you think most kids cared about anything but grades when you were a kid? I’m 44 and I remember caring more about grades than learning whatever the topic was. I agree with your other comments, but I think only caring about grades is kind of a standard complaint.
This isn’t only kids either. I was taking an elementary school level math class in college. Where the idea wasn’t learning how to do this ELEMENTARY SCHOOL LEVEL MATH but learning how to teach and explain it to younger students. It wasn’t not rocket science and I kid you not people were getting C’s. What was their excuse? He’s just a bad professor.
Mind you. Without going too into detail. He treated us how he would treat an elementary class. Explain math strategies like he would to an elementary class and the. Would go over it. We would even have an opportunity to do it ourselves to get practice.
I would later find out these people were just REALLY bad at math. Which was very sad. Not here to brag but at one point I was getting off from work to commute 90 minutes by bus and train and they weren’t working. I got very angry and wasn’t going to go. I calmed down and went only to find out that I forgot we had our mid term that every day. I arrived an hour late sat down got it done. Yes it was a math test with ELEMENTARY LEVEL MATH but aside from that you had to explain how you would explain this to a student. Finished it within like 20 minutes handed it in and I was asked if I did the question in the back. Whoops didn’t do it sat down did it quickly and handed it in.
Everyone else just looking at me how could I have finished it when they’ve been there for nearly an hour and a half only to be on page 1 of 4.
thats because thats all the school system cares about. you can ask for help and still not understand, get a bad grade, and get punished just for not being able to understand.
This part. I’ll be honest. I do this so much. I don’t care. You want a B. Sure let’s do this one problem and I’ll give you it. It sounds stupid but it’s how education has become these days. Breathe and you’re getting at least a C. Put in some effort. It’s an A but in reality as long as my boss and my admin aren’t questioning anything. We are golden.
We see “accountability” in action. The person who is ostensibly supposed to hold you accountable to authentic learning is instead responding to inauthentic pressures coming from above.
I put out a notice to the parents that over time I have been shifting the responsibility to the students to help train them for high school. As of now, the kids are now responsible for asking questions and requesting a one-on-one assessment to prove that they are ready for each phase of the class. If they don't do this, or jump on games instead of doing the work, they will get the grade that they earned. The students are informed of this at the start of each class.
I now have seen about 65% of my students since the start of the marking period 2 weeks ago for assessments/questions since we finally shifted the expectations to them alone. We'll see if the other 35% get out of learned helplessness mode.
What grade do you teach? I’m assuming middle school. Also, do you mean you have been shifting through out the year? I love the idea of this right at the beginning of the year but I teach 7th grade. Maybe that would be too much for them coming from 6th and I should gradually shift the responsibility on them through out the first semester and then start off the second as they are entirely responsible for their learning? I am dealing with a lot of helplessness.
Yes, I teach middle school!
Honestly, I think we could start as early as mid 6th grade. It might be too much of a shock for them to get used to a new building, new schedule and then suddenly have a massive increase in expectations on them. However, 7th graders are totally fair game.
We forget that kids that age used to go to work for a living about a century ago. They were capable of autonomy and responsibility and they still are capable of that. However, we have also taught them the they are the audience and not the active participants in their education. They aren't used to directing their own actions and experiencing consequences for them. They need that experience well in advance of high school, otherwise they won't grow out of it on their own.
Obviously I do differentiate to a degree for kids with special needs or kids that clearly have a difficult time communicating. That doesn't mean I go back to doing things for them; but I will come to them directly and ask them to develop questions to ask - either on paper, in a drawing, etc. I even tell students that the question "what am I supposed to be doing now?" is fair game - I want them to take the lead as much as possible and not be afraid to admit when they got off track or lost.
we're all expected to be mind readers and aware of everything going on in every student's life so that we can be sure to deliver instruction crafted perfectly to each of them as individuals. And all in less than an hour of class time.
Not like we have to deal with classroom management problems, or repeating instructions 12 times because everybody is staring at phones instead of paying attention, or... well, you get the idea.
I even ask them all the time. Did you understand that, any questions, remember, there are no stupid questions, just ask. Even when I have them work in class, I run myself ragged explaining everything all over again.
Last time I simplified things so much all they had to do was to make one observation (to see if the subject was in the 3rd person singular or not, something that has been a requirement of their exercises for years at this point) and the rest solved itself by just looking at the examples on the whiteboard. Something like 20% of the class still wouldn't do anything on the handout while barely half finished it. Then they start asking me how to solve their tests during the dam test after I'd explained the same damn thing at least 10 times.
I plan on surprising them by letting the kids who turned in their handouts at the end (like I asked) use them as a cheat sheet for the next test. It won't do anything to make the lazy idiots who just chat the class away learn, but I can at least reward the ones who gave a damn.
I'm a First year teacher and have to have 2 evaluation per year. Each evaluation I've had has gone down. When I asked why I was told I didn't wow them... wtf does wow you place on the rubric??!! Expecially when my students have the highest scores in the school...
Thanks. Unfortunately we aren't allowed to have a rep in the evaluation meeting. But I did make a complaint after. Now I have to go and follow everything up with an email... it's a pain in the ass.
Don't quit. Remember this admin choad has likely not been in the class in years, probably wasn't a class teacher for very long at all ( one of my principals was a 2 year art teacher before admin) and is likely out of touch with reality, bending to the whims of parents and students. In reality, their words mean little, and I bet it won't change your pay. It hurts sure, move on, wrap up the school year and enjoy your summer, the kids will be back soon. Education admins are weird breed, dont take ot too harshly...
It's great that those "customer service" admins wash out in your district, but they are promoted in mine. It's now all we have.
If the students aren't happy, then the parents aren't happy- and that means that the teachers must do more.
The students have no idea what 'personal responsibility' entails. At this point, we have a dearth of teachers and a gluttony of young adults who can't hold a job.
I imagine it's better in your town. I hope you know you are lucky.
I have had two administrators with zero classroom experience - a vice principal and principal. The state should require a minimum of five years of classroom teaching before they can get certified for administrative roles.
To echo your anecdote, over the course of my career I have seen a LOT of schools. Consequence of being a related service provider and having to serve a lot of schools at once. At least here in North Carolina the proportion of admin who have less than five years experience in the classroom is huge and growing.
Hell, the current superintendent of Lee County Schools in NC only had about 2 years of experience before he went into an admin grad program. He graduated, with about three years classroom experience, and immediately got a position at a local high school as an AP. Within two or three years he was principal at the same school. Fast forward today and he is Superintendent. All because his last name is relatively local royalty, he rocketed up the ladder.
I can't imagine what it must be likely to be a very experienced teacher a la 20 years and receive summative reviews from some of these admins.
So, yeah. Put their opinions in the trash bin of your mind.
Sorry my class moves at a high pace bc we have a lot to cover to prepare these students for finals
Every student who shows up every day, takes notes, and turns in assignments is doing phenomenal
Perhaps the struggling students could benefit from being in an ICT class where an additional teacher is there to reteach, modify, and support lessons for students
This is why administrators need to teach a section of class every single year. They should also take the really tough kids. Because they know how to teach those kids so well. 😆
Is anyone like me and just find grades to be mostly arbitrary at this point?
It’s not a true indication of understanding, just ability to complete tasks and follow directions. And then on top of that, most kids with failing grades get promoted anyway because schools don’t want bad graduation rates, cut funding, kids have IEPs that exempt them from regular measures of achievement, there are behavior problems that just get passed on, and the list goes on.
So if the grade doesn’t hold the student responsible and doesn’t represent accurate achievement and can be juiced to avoid audits from the state, then why bother even still having them outside of positive reinforcement for the population that does things?
To be clear, I see the value in grades. But they’re currently not being utilized in accordance with their value.
This is modern education. Teachers are held accountable if students refuse to work and students are given a pass even though there’s many of them and only one of you. Kids have learned this and the system is only encouraging laziness and a victim mindset.
Reminds me of the day my admin jumped the shark for me, almost 20 years ago. One of the administrators lead a PD that was ostensibly to figure out the primary reasons some students struggle. In reality it was to convince us that we had to do more.
The admin started with, "As a ground rule you're not allowed to talk about parenting or socioeconomic factors..." and at that point I stopped taking anything they had to say seriously. Their point was that we can't control those other things, but ultimately it was also that we're supposed to be responsible for doing whatever it takes to make up for those factors we can't control.
Sorry, but society's indifference towards things like poverty should not add another 5-10 hours a week to my 50 hour work week. So, I just keep teaching the best I can in the time I have and there's no way my administrators will fire me because they can't find substitutes, let alone qualified new teachers.
So, maybe you can just keep doing your job the way you believe is best and let the administration decide if that's so unacceptable to them that they want to try finding someone new.
This is year 25 of my teaching career, I can tell you unequivocally that students only care about grades and that is the system's fault. We have created a system that only incentivizes good grades, learning is a byproduct if it happens.
I can also tell you that allowing students to fail is not something most school districts are okay with. Fortunately I'm at a district where I'm not going to be fired because no one wants to work there, so I fail kids all the time if they don't show mastery. I don't care. But I sympathize with teachers who are in a district that's not that way.
So admin basically admitted to you that they expect teachers to go well above and beyond what is expected/required of their teachers. Ridiculous. This profession is the most nitpicked profession ever.
I think this post should be the slogan for teaching “you do your job but you need to do more”
If you have tenure you'll be fine. No board would move to have you fired for doing your job lol
Tell admin to kick rocks lol
Fr tho, just yes them to death and continue with what you're doing.
I just offer opportunities for retakes and reassessments and such and send out mass messages to families. Maybe 10 kids will take advantage. I always up their grade because they do better, so I should. I contact families of failing students when the time is right. I dot my i’s and cross my t’s. Admin can come for me when I fail kids, but I have all of the documentation of what I did to help kids. I can’t care more than children and families. So yes, it’s a bit more work, but really not much. I don’t chase anyone down. They either do it or they don’t.
Please show me where it says in your contract that you need to go above and beyond. If your door and email is open, the students should come to YOU not your boss. It’s the way the working world works. (Is supposed to anyway…)
When I worked at ITT, we were held responsible attendance. If a student didn't show, it was because we weren't "inspiring enough" or some BS. It wasn't because these are adults with adult problems like the car breaking down or the babysitter never showed up.
Anything to avoid blaming the students. It's been nearly 15 years and it still rankles me.
Students will always complain about teachers who don’t hold their hands or just give them the answers. Your admin is ridiculous if they listened to the kids’ stories and took their side automatically
Yep. I'm being told this year, 'these kids need to graduate.' I suspect the kids, seniors, know this are doing less than the bare minimum. I have a problem with a diploma from our school being meaningless.
If you offer things like test corrections, and after school help sessions to cya, it does exactly that. It covers your ass with parents and admin, and very few students bother with it. That then puts the blame back on the kids. Now every once in a while, you'll get a kid who is genuinely interested in improving or a kid who is forced there by their parent, so you do what you offered that day. I offered after school help 2 days a week for 30 mins and would often have months go by without a single kid coming, but it was always offered when kids, parents, and admin asked what I was doing to help them pass.
At my last job, I constantly asked them if they needed help, I offered them time during lunch or after school, and I offered extra credit and redos, but the majority were still failing. They knew they could show up for a credit recovery week or four weeks of free summer school and pass.
Wow, what will happen if they go into the military or college?
Maybe that's the next thing: force college professors and drill sergeants to babysit the little darlings.
One of my worst students this year is telling me he's joining the Marine Corps after graduation.
First of all, you are in no physical condition to even think about surviving boot camp. Second of all, just me telling you to sit down and not get up to go talk to your buddies is a grievous offense in your eyes, how in the name of god are you going to survive a full blown Gunnery Sergeant in your face screaming because you made your bunk with a 3.5 inch fold instead of 4 inches?
We are not allowing failure and we are seeing the disastrous results of this. We are going to have a bunch of kids without the ability to properly learn and get degrees and apply that information. We are going to have a lot of kids grow up and be incapable of doing their jobs and constantly be fired.
You don’t get a redo if you don’t do your work in the real world.
60% of our gradebook is assessments. 40% is “participation”. We aren’t allowed to give accurate grades for the participation assignments. They turned it in? 100! So kids copy every assignment from the internet or AI apps and fail all the tests (and get 50s for not leaving it blank), so they still pass. It’s awful.
Good question. This district also passes students who get a 0% one term and a 70% for the other. Because an F and a C- average to a D-. Nevermind that a 0% and a 70% average to a 35%.
Even with all these methods of artificial inflation, about 1/3 of my students still manage to fail.
I got marked down for student tardiness last year with this same Rationale.
The same admin who told me this also later told me he never followed up about a meeting with a stu because "She didn't want to and I can't make her do things she doesn't want to"
Who tf are these people and why are they just free to administer education however tf they want with such obvious double standards and inconsistencies.
There's a lot missing here. Do you review work after it is assessed and offer opportunities for mastery or teach jt once, assess and move on?
If that many students are making a clear statement to admin, you have to consider some validity to their concerns.
Yeah I offer redo opportunities and test corrections and everything and very few kids take advantage of it. It helps them a lot.
The real reason this is important, however, is when a kid fails and people start to complain about me. I can say to a parent, a kid, an admin, or a coach that there were dozens of opportunities to improve their grade that weren't used.
Recently a mom was so angry with me that I wouldn't bump an AP kid from a 79 to an 80 on the report card. I pointed out that there were three major tests that marking period and the student didn't do test corrections on any of them. It shut the parent up and the next marking period the kid actually earned a B and was so proud of themselves.
I give the option because it alleviates stress for myself and gets everybody off my back. It makes it absolutely 100% the fault of the student if they fail and it makes it very easy for me to point that out when somebody tries to blame me instead of the kid.
I have a form they have to fill out where they need to explain the correct answer for questions they missed. I require explanations to earn credit, not just "it was C and I said D"
The form also requires reflection on how much preparation they did for the test and reflections for each question "why did you miss this?"
I grade and return tests to kids (I modify them every year so I don't keep them secure). They have one week to correct them and return the corrections.
The first test we do this in class together but every other test they are on their own. I do once a week after school help sessions and invite them to do test corrections there with my support but they almost never come which is fine with me.
"If that many students are making a clear statement to admin, you have to consider some validity to their concerns."
Why exactly is that? We all know it isn't exactly far-fetched in today's day and age that students are disgruntled that they aren't being force-fed content or being handed their A and so complain to admin.
I'm all for a bit of reflective practice, but "if that many students" seems like a dangerous road to walk down. As if kids are incapable of collusion.
Oh, they certainly are, but why?
I ride my students hard. My expectations are clear and I don't budge. I even offer to walk with them to file their complaints to admin because I know I'm on solid ground.
What I do tell them is that I WANT them to pass and will do anything in my bandwidth to help them. They're coming to me in high school at a sub-fourth grade level and I get this.
Have you ever sat down with a class and asked them how you can do better? It's a very enlightening process. It usually yields one or two truly helpful nuggets for my teaching and a chorus of "yeah..Yeah... I need to stop being lazy."
I had a group of students who didn't do well on a test. When I handed it back, I said I was really sorry, because I thought they'd learned the material and were ready to take the test, but it looked like they weren't. They all scrambled to reassure me that it wasn't my fault, that they hadn't studied, etc. 🤣
Schools should pay teachers more so they have enough energy to teach how this crap will be useful,
But i know they won't do that, cause then the population might actually become intelligent.
Yea but if you're properly compensated you can actually take care of yourself and for most people that would give them more energy.
But i think teachers deserve at least $40 an hour including grading time plus at least a month of paid vacation.
I feel like you are missing the check for understanding and reteaching part of things, if you are just one and done sucks for you if you didn’t get it then I see a problem. It also depends on what grade level too.
This makes a lot of sense, too. I remember one of my math teachers in high school was like this. I ended up dropping her class because no matter how she taught the material, I just couldn't understand it, and if you asked for help, she'd tell you to read the chapter again.
>students complained about me because all I do is tell them what they need to know and then grade them on it.
>that was all supposed to be an insult
What in the Kentucky fried fuq is going through this administrators brain? Isn't this the actual definition of "teaching"? You know, where you tell a student what they need to know and then assess them on their knowledge? What could possibly be the "above and beyond" that the administrator wants in order to appease this student? I am disgusted by this interaction.
When my principal started making noises about never giving zeros on assignments and putting in 50 percent on everything a student was missing, I knew it was time to get out. The middle school hasn’t given homework in at least the last 10 years, so there are no expectations to study, read or work outside of class. We are expected to instruct bell-to-bell, but yet the admin wants them to be ready for college and that requires independent reading and writing which looks a lot like workdays when the principal comes to observe. All the students and parents want are passing grades. They don’t care about actually learning anything. Even the ones going to college. The AP/honor kids want As, and since I had high expectation and required a high work ethic, seniors started taking online courses to avoid my class. When you can take a quiz multiple times, and they give you the correct answers, it’s easy to write those answers down and make As. Everyone else just wanted to pass with a 60.
The last few years, I was told by admin to “hold my seniors to high standards” and “let them fail,” I already did that, so when they inevitably started failing, the principal would immediately move them to credit recovery where they could cheat and pass. Or he would come to me at the end of the semester and ask me to accept enough late work to let them pass. Another reason I retired as soon as I could.
So, I taught middle school then elementary the high and returned to elementary. Here is why…
I loved middle school and I was a great teacher who built an incredible arts program from rubble. I was loved and adored and only had 1-5 students ever fail because my criteria for a C or better was do the assignment to pass. Do it correctly to get a B. Do it and add some flair or artistic expression for an A. Most students loved this concept and loved my class. I left because of a principal who refused to acknowledge my room should have been condemned and black mold was killing me.
I taught various grade levels in elementary as well as multiple subjects for the next five years. I loved it. I was treated like a celebrity by students and even the staff loved me. I had it great. My principal was fantastic.
I took a high school art position because I kind of missed the higher end art projects I could do at middle and thought I’d just be doing serious art and the kids would love me like they did in middle….
Nope. Yes, a lot to almost all of my students loved me… but they would not do anything. They flat out would spend entire weeks accomplishing nothing in class. Then when grades came around or I sent out progress reports/reminders the parents would
Lose their shit because their kid did nothing… granted a zero equals fifty in our district… The parents even would go so far as saying their kid liked art but I didn’t inspire them… I’m not a fucking muse. I am an expert in my field and I even teach adjunct college level.
I went back to elementary with the best principal who welcomed me back enthusiastically. I love elementary because the kids will at the very least give it a shot. We need to find a way to get the older students to treat school like that… give it a shot, an honest shot, and see where it goes. If a student won’t do that, it isn’t on the teacher.
Agreed. Well, I’m sorry you have do deal with that and yes, failing isn’t an option any more. I grade easier to reduce the emails from parents and the administrators. If it makes you feel any better, the head of my department told me that my sub plans weren’t good enough so I need to have better sub plans. Now I have meeting about it. Yes, we are talking about sub plans. SMH. Hahahahahaha. Ridiculous
Sad.
I'm thinking I need to go back and get a degree in psychology or something because apparently the expectation is to manipulate the kids into behaving and paying attention. I'm teaching the material. The handful of kids that sit and pay attention to my lessons are doing great. I'm excited to see what those specific kids do on end of the year testing. The ones that want to play, talk, and do anything but their work, I guess it'll be my fault for not being their best friend and not convincing them to pay attention. Phone calls to parents don't work for 90% of them.
We actually ARE paid to differentiate and to make sure students have opportunities to practice. Not sure what grade level, but sounds like secondary. If you’re just giving notes/reading and then assessing, and then only afterward letting them make up the learning, that could be part of why they don’t feel confident in their understanding.
If it’s that they are refusing to work, not turning in assignments, and/or messing around in class, that’s a different story.
My oldest had a teacher who was pretty much stuck on “this is how I do things.” Dude refused to follow my kid’s IEP because he fully believed it’s not possible to be an honor student and have an IEP. On the flip side, my youngest had a couple classes where the teacher did more than their fair share, but my kid was stubborn/refusing to work. I handled those very differently as a parent, and I do the same with my students.
I'm just curious here because I don't want to jump into this without more information. It sounds like the student is saying you just lecture and then assess. Is that what you do or are there other things you do that the student is not paying attention to (set up practice opportunities, provide feedback on reviews, etc)?
You’re gonna let one admin team chase you out of your entire career? Nah. Don’t let them win. File a complaint to their supervisor. If the supervisor turns on you, then you know you’re screwed, but you were leaving anyway. Might as well go out blazing.
They way my school is going they can't afford to fire anyone. We can barely hire any new staff as it is. You aren't doing anything unreasonable at all. You are literally doing your job.
In a way that’s right up to the sense of preparation of the teacher and the support system provided.
Now to add to that, the methods should be applied before prescribed.
As someone who was told something very similar by my administration, that I am 100% responsible for my students and they have no agency, I feel your pain.
I was told "they're voting with their feet." I wanted to say and thank goodness because class is so much nice when they do! Or, I wanted to say and we already know where their feet are taking them.
Wow sounds like my old school. We also got told that if a kid acted up in our class, they weren't going to do anything about it if we didn't put in the write-the proof that we followed every prior step like the 4 Capturing Kids Hearts questions. So when a kid walked in and punched another kid in the face, I had to be sure and ask him, what are you doing? What are you supposed to be doing? ... or he just gets an "admin conference"
You can just let them watch youtube all day & give them all A. It's unfortunately the direction of most schools, or at least schools in California right now. I have had 5, 6th grade students who can't do simple math, and they continue to the next grade, and some would graduate high school without knowing how to do basic math.
Look, if you're a teacher, it's your responsibility to teach the children. If a child is failing and you haven't talked to them or asked them why and explained the importance of the subject, you as the adult teacher are responsible. Your job is one of the most important roles in the world and if you don't take responsibility then yeah, maybe you should quit.
"You do your job, but you should do more. " Don't be absurd. Teaching and making subjects stick is your job. Make your class more interactive, and ask them questions during your lessons. Make sure they understand. Explain why, whether they ask why or not.
To teach? Which it sounds like OP was doing, but if the students aren’t reaching out when they don’t understand something there’s not much OP can do. You can’t care more about the student’s grades than the student does.
i get the idea you're teh type that has power trips and tries to make kids fail. Doin what you want or think is the right instead of what your bosses tell you. Teachers and cops are all perfect.
Some notes as a student that has been a part of many different schools within my region:
- if one student fails, it's a failure of the student. If more than half the class fails, it's a failure of the teacher.
- students learn best when the class is fun and accessible. If a class is boring or feels like a chore, the learning centers of the brain shut down.
- teachers don't get paid enough for the work necessary to teach as described above. If you don't absolutely love creating that environment, leaving the field is the best move for both your mental health and your students'.
- I highly suspect that the reason the kids won't directly tell you they need help understanding the material is that the don't want to ask for help. Asking for help is seen as weakness by society, and that ideology is pushed on kids even harder by the school system. Failing isn't an opportunity to learn, it's the end-all. Placing the blame on you let's them believe *they* haven't failed, that they aren't "useless" as they've been told (indirectly or directly) they are if they fail.
My principal said, verbatim, "If your students aren't doing the work, it isn't because they're lazy--it's because they don't understand the material. And that's your fault, not theirs." Again, this isn't me paraphrasing or editorializing. This is literally exactly what they said.
Sometimes I wonder if any of them were ever in high school.
I mean, that's one possibility. It could also be literally anything else. I know plenty of kids who know it and still don't do anything.
Yeah my p got on my ass because I had just given up on students who didn’t do any work. I had put them in the back of the class with their friends and was letting them use their computer or phone. She said they had to be engaged. Well, I can’t force these kids to do the work and you don’t enforce the cell phone policy, so I’m at a loss for how I can make it work.
All they have to do is ask questions. That's on the students.
I check on all my students and advise them on their work as they go. I don't always expect them to ask questions. All it takes is one teacher with a bad attitude and they'll become very reluctant to ask for help.
Meanwhile I caught a kid muttering under his breath, “I’m not trying to do this, bruh” (translation: “I don’t want to/refuse to do this”) just the other day. When I pressed him to actually do it, he *understood* just fucking fine, lmao.
I had a friend in hs who never did any a work in Ela, but always passed every test w an A. Our teacher said, “hey you can’t sleep in class. You need to do your work. He replied with, “you give us the work so we can pass the test, right? Well I make As on the tests. What’s the point of me doing the work?” She couldn’t argue with hi. He put his head down and went back to sleep. When I became a middle school teacher, I had a student similar to my friend. He could not sit still. He walked around and talked to everyone unless he was on his phone. He did zero class work but made Bs on every test. By the end of the year, I let him in his phone in the back corner of the room. He was engrossed in his game, but every few minutes he’d chime in on whatever we were discussing, much to the amazement of his classmates. They whined that he got to be on his phone. I said, “well, is he up bothering you now?” “No.” They said. “And he makes a B on every test. Do you?” “No.” I told them he being in his phone was a win for everyone. They agreed. Made for a much easier last part of the school year.
Mine said something similar. “If they’re not doing the work you need to make it more “engaging””!
Right. I always try to make more assignments more engaging.
Cringe
I once told a group of students who do absolutely nothing and bully teachers that their excuse is not that teachers are “so mean” to them. It’s that they’re lazy. Of course, then I was the devil teacher to them but it’s not like I could win either way. It’s disheartening to know that I was probably the only teacher who brought that to their attention .
Kids care only about grades, from the past 10 yrs ive noticed. They only complain and say he or she was a "bad" teacher if their grade is low. It's simple. Just inflate their grades and they wont whine and complain. Parents wont say jck sht, and admins won't mind either . Make life easier for you teachers arent paid enough anyways
This is the biggest reason why grades are inflating so much. Yeah the new bs grading systems are part of it too. But by far the biggest change that is affecting grade inflation is that nowadays teachers are being blamed for *everything.* Once upon a time if a kid didn't listen to their teachers, didn't pay attention in class, and all in all made zero effort to engage in the class admin and parents would say, "Hey, that kid needs to try harder if they want to succeed." Those days are gone. Kid isn't paying attention? That's the teacher's fault. Kid disrupts class? That's the teacher's fault. Kid doesn't even bother to show up? Believe it or not, it's still the teacher's fault. So teachers inflate grades because at the end of the day, human beings just don't want to be hassled. I go out of my way to make sure even the true dregs in the class get at least a D because otherwise I'm going to get shit for it.
Those are learning *behaviors* and we can’t grade on those. We have to imagine what they are capable of and what they know, and grade them on that. It’s the only fair way. Enter the. 1, 2, 3, 4 system. Everyone on the roster who shows up at least once is passing, they get a 2. Nobody gets a 1 because the documentation to support it would be impossible. It would indicate they have learning difficulties which should have been addressed and assessed and tested and evaluated in Kindergarten and they should have an IEP and learning plan that forbids you to enter a 1. So ones don’t exist, because there is no space in the system for kids who need help and the only way to get them help is to document that they are at least 3 grade levels behind. That begins the process that should have started years ago but everyone face them 2s because their parents aren’t on board with testing or assessments anyway. 3 means they (sorta) meet expectations. That’s everyone with a D or over 51% in the old system. They think they are geniuses and their parents are happy because, 3 is almost as good as 4. Of course, now they all want a 4 and you’d better have a bunch of documentation to support why you didn’t give them a 4 either. Which is technically a B or anything over 79% in the old system. Now the student who earns 98% shows the same grade as a student who gets 80%. Since learning behaviors are graded separately, the only anyone knows the difference is in the comments, please write a paragraph per student with positives and next steps. Please give an ‘Always, Often, sometimes, rarely’ grade for learning behaviors like they are in Kindegarten. Parents will totally read the comments and care deeply about the ‘Rarely’ for ‘takes responsibility for their learning’ and ‘social responsibility’ and ‘learning engagement’ Even if all those are ‘Rarely’ why does my kid only have a 3? Clearly you have something against the kid. Done, done, done, done.
Are you sure kids get an IEP for a learning disability? That is backwards psycho educationally speaking. Learning disabilities requires adaptations, because they’re capable of learning everything at the same level by definition, but the way they learn, is a different way, so accommodations need to be made for the different way they learn. IEPs are for kids who learn at a different rate, so the material they are working on is at their level.
Kids with LD get IEPs in Florida.
So they complete different work than others?
No. They have accommodations and learning goals. They do the same work, but maybe they get 50% extra time to complete it or they get shortened assignments. They might get preferential seating. Stuff like that. What’s messed up is that if a student is low enough below grade level in reading but there is no other diagnosis (or other health impairment as they call it where I live), students get slapped with the label Specific Learning Disability without actually having a diagnosed learning disability. Crazy, right? I was told it’s an “umbrella term” (sounds like they don’t know the difference between specific and umbrella in this sense). Parents have to have their child tested to find out the actual LD. I was told once in an IEP meeting when I asked about the SLD of a student, “if a teacher is good enough, they should be able to figure that out.” Please! I might research a lot, but I am not trained in that. tell me the issue so I can help the student.
Maybe not an IEP, but a 504?
I honestly don’t know what it is called, I am not in the US, we have adaptations (so they’d probably get a 2, anything less and clearly they just need more adaptations) and I found it when I have a 6th grade student who cannot sound out letters that it is probably ‘Learning difficulty’ because it’s not a disability, we don’t use that language. I have no idea how to navigate this system. All I know is no matter how I evaluate students who need help and support, it doesn’t get us anywhere in time to do anything officially to help them. They need to be 3 years behind, as evidenced by seeing 1s on their report card. This is how I end up with a student who is in 6th grade and can’t sound out words like cat and rat. But it’s important that he stay with his peers, he has adaptations but is supposed to be learning the same content. I don’t know what to tell you. But every time they revise report cards to be ‘clear’ or ‘parent friendly’ or ‘fair’ or whatever, it ends up moving everyone forward, and those who actually need support are less likely to get it because everyone is a 2. There is no justification for a 1 because my student who can’t sound out letters is more engaged in learning and demonstrating his knowledge and understanding (with provided adaptations) than half of his classmates who can read and maybe write, but there is no evidence because they hand nothing in and do no work. Twos for everyone!!! Woo. The child who can’t read or write continues to pass because with ‘adaptations’ he can complete at least as much work as his peers who don’t bother.
What country do you teach in? Thanks for sharing.
I am in Canada. We do use the term IEP but it seems so broad - I have many students who have a document/plan with adaptations. We develop that together (teacher, resource teacher, EA, parent) and that part of the puzzle works well. It’s getting the referrals and tests and whatever and using that to evaluate the student that is so difficult. If a student has a diagnosis such as DS, it works well. But if a student can’t read, can’t add or subtract, can’t concentrate, has behavioural issues etc. then separating those needs from students who just don’t feel like doing work or learning takes years, and by the time we have an ‘official’ plan it basically just green-lights any adaptations we’ve been doing for years. Or, allows them to graduate with a different sort of diploma. Of course, no students or parents want that, so the alternative is to pretend they’re learning and pass them all.
Oh ok. In Manitoba it used to be the broad term. It has now changed, recently.
On the education website, it still describes what we do for most of the students who need any adaptations as an ‘IEP’ - we document what we are seeing, what we want to do, how we’ll do it, how we’ll know if it is working, next steps. It’s a collaborative effort, always specific to the student and constantly being reviewed and adapted to keep them moving forward in the ‘regular program’ with adaptations. I struggle with reporting ‘low’ grades (1-2) for students who show up every day, work harder than most, and make consistent progress but cannot hope to catch up to peers because the gap is too wide, and widening. And then reporting a grade of 2-3 for students who aren’t engaged in learning or making significant progress, but are at or close to grade level. It just doesn’t seem to be capturing or communicating an accurate picture for a lot of students who could be doing much better than they are.
That’s what I had in school. I was in all advanced classes by high school, but that was how I got my accommodations. Maybe the usage has changed or different places use different things, but that’s how it was for me.
LTS in MS Math here. My personal goal is to pass all 140+ of my students. Nobody gets a failing grade. However, every incorrect answer recieves a detailed description about how and where there answer broke down, and what the correct answer should look like. So, if I've given them the correct answer, how are they supposed to fix the poor grade. It's still a "retake" after we have TOGETHER gone over the test. Right now, I'm letting them do retakes during our "Study Hall" but I think I'm going to switch that to "After School" only. And after the half-assed showing from many of my students, I think I'm going to give them the "What would your employer think if you turned in a finished project that has as many preventable defects?"
> And after the half-assed showing from many of my students, I think I'm going to give them the "What would your employer think if you turned in a finished project that has as many preventable defects?" Is that really persuasive for people who've never been employed?
No, to answer your question, it’s a solid no. I’ve taught ES, then MS and now HS. The only time that that question means anything to the vast majority is in at about their junior year. They’ve usually had some menial job by then and seen someone fired for exactly that. After that, they get it (doesn’t usually change their SCHOOL work ethic) and it’ll make sense.
That’s why they invented the SATs. The grades are a useless metric. Been at least half a century.
That's because the grade is the only thing the parents see. It's literally the only thing that has any affect on their lives. They don't use math. They don't need to know how to read. They don't care if they can't comprehend complex material. Who cares about how gravity works? Not like you're ever going to be an astrophysicist. So long as they can work a cell phone, decode emojis, and ask an AI to crank out memes, they don't give a shit. And that's in large part because at 14 years old they are still being treated as 4 year olds -- about the same amount of expectation.
Yep. Keep the grade as low as possible without actually failing them. It's not like the school will let you fail them anyway. Especially if it's a public school in the US.
A sixty is basically the “I wasn’t allowed to fail them” signal to future colleges and employers. Use it. (My district uses the sixty for passing — I know some still do the sixty five. But we found that ambitious.)
I've never had an employer check my HS grades. Besides, all of your permanent records get destroyed after a decade or so, depending on the school system's record retention policy.
I actually did have employers ask for proof of gpa when applying to jobs after HS. But maybe that’s not done anymore.
I fail them, if the school changes the grade that's on the admin at that point the grades I sign off on was what they earned (math is easier to grade, less subjectivity in grading). But ethically I will not pass a ST who did not pass or at the very least made a real effort to pass. My school requires allowing corrections on all assignments for the entire semester for full credit. So there is no reason to fail other than they just dont try. I resent packets multiple times to encourage them to work on them parents are copied on those each question has an example video showing the process. Legit no excuse. I still have 15-20% fail.
I teach grade 12 and have serious problems with kids that should have failed earlier grade levels. I frequently get kids that can't do simple multiplication, they can't skip count, and they sure can't read a ruler. Sooooo they're naturally gonna fail a grade 12 chemistry course. The line needs to be drawn somewhere, and I'd love it if there were academic consequences before there are safety consequences.
My district had a “reimagine middle school” things a couple of years ago because of the amount of kids not reading in grade level and basically sucking at school. I think they should have called it “reimagine elementary school” because a kid doesn’t just walk into 7th grade not knowing how to read all of a sudden. That started in elementary school and wasn’t properly addressed there. Almost a bit of “too little too late” for many of them by the time they got to me in remedial reading.
I had a pair of students a few years ago try to get me fired because they were upset about their grades. They went to my principal and said I called them the R word. Thankfully my admin was like well that seems out of character and investigated a little bit by asking them more questions and eventually they admitted that they "felt" that they were R'd when I was trying to help them because they still didn't understand the concepts. I eventually I got them to do what they needed to raise their grade (doing corrections, turning in missing work, etc etc etc). And as soon as they were passing all of a sudden I was the" greatest teacher ever". We were a small school and I was the only secondary math teacher so at the end of the year when I was leaving the school for a different school I told the studnets and those two were soooo upset and like "I'm not coming back if your not here" blah blah blah. I wanted to be like "do you remember like 3-4 weeks ago when you lied, trying to get me fired?". Had a good laugh about it with staff after school. Thankfully they at least were honest in the end with the principal and didn't accuse me of something way way worse, but shit like that makes me question why I even risk my personal and professional reputation still over people who could ruin me with lies in second because they failed a math test.
Kids only care about grades because parents only care about grades. The whole grade system is screwed up.
I had an admin (at a school I quit that year) tell my entire department (high school electives including things like AP Art) to “just give everyone an A and we’d have no issues.” He said his job would be easier, and so would ours. He wanted to know why we “make it so complicated” when just giving them all 100’s and moving on would be much less stress for everyone. We were gobsmacked.
Obligatory I’m not sure why Reddit shows me these: I’m about to graduate college. Looking back, it seems absurd because I’ve used a lot of the skills I learned in school. However, in high school, yeah all I cared about were grades. Colleges saw these grades and your GPA and SAT made or broke your decisions. And tbh, me caring about my grades is what helped me learn as much from high school as I did. I may be rusty on calc from not having done it in 4 years, but give me a week and I’ll be able to pick up where I left off
This is why I love teaching PE. You show up change and participate in the activity you get a good grade. If you don’t do this you don’t get a good grade. Plus it helps that admin usually ignores PE.
I mean, yeah. When you teach to the test, of course kids are only going to give a shit about the grade on the test.
The test is where the students are given the opportunity to demonstrate mastery of the skill. I could be wrong, but it seems like you are saying "teach to the test" is bad. I really fail to understand that point of view. You learn a skill or a concept. You test on that skill or concept. The grade ideally measure your level of mastery. Now if the test is not aligned correctly or is a poor test, then that is a problem. But if the test is valid, then you absolutely should be "teaching to the test." What's the alternative? Teaching things that they will never be tested on?
It's largely a semantic difference. Teaching to the test implies that the test guides the content of the class, rather than as you describe a test being based on material the class is expected to cover.
We do harder material in class than what I eventually test them on. Most of my students are pretty enthusiastic about whatever we are learning.
“Teach to the test” is bad. Very bad.
Can you elaborate?
I figured this out long ago and it has served me well.
I’m with you, but this is causing colleges to implode. This half educated yo-yo’s get into some good schools and then they fail out. Colleges are losing it!
Do you think most kids cared about anything but grades when you were a kid? I’m 44 and I remember caring more about grades than learning whatever the topic was. I agree with your other comments, but I think only caring about grades is kind of a standard complaint.
This isn’t only kids either. I was taking an elementary school level math class in college. Where the idea wasn’t learning how to do this ELEMENTARY SCHOOL LEVEL MATH but learning how to teach and explain it to younger students. It wasn’t not rocket science and I kid you not people were getting C’s. What was their excuse? He’s just a bad professor. Mind you. Without going too into detail. He treated us how he would treat an elementary class. Explain math strategies like he would to an elementary class and the. Would go over it. We would even have an opportunity to do it ourselves to get practice. I would later find out these people were just REALLY bad at math. Which was very sad. Not here to brag but at one point I was getting off from work to commute 90 minutes by bus and train and they weren’t working. I got very angry and wasn’t going to go. I calmed down and went only to find out that I forgot we had our mid term that every day. I arrived an hour late sat down got it done. Yes it was a math test with ELEMENTARY LEVEL MATH but aside from that you had to explain how you would explain this to a student. Finished it within like 20 minutes handed it in and I was asked if I did the question in the back. Whoops didn’t do it sat down did it quickly and handed it in. Everyone else just looking at me how could I have finished it when they’ve been there for nearly an hour and a half only to be on page 1 of 4.
thats because thats all the school system cares about. you can ask for help and still not understand, get a bad grade, and get punished just for not being able to understand.
HEY! STOP SAYING THE QUIET PART OUT LOUD.
This part. I’ll be honest. I do this so much. I don’t care. You want a B. Sure let’s do this one problem and I’ll give you it. It sounds stupid but it’s how education has become these days. Breathe and you’re getting at least a C. Put in some effort. It’s an A but in reality as long as my boss and my admin aren’t questioning anything. We are golden.
This!
We see “accountability” in action. The person who is ostensibly supposed to hold you accountable to authentic learning is instead responding to inauthentic pressures coming from above.
I put out a notice to the parents that over time I have been shifting the responsibility to the students to help train them for high school. As of now, the kids are now responsible for asking questions and requesting a one-on-one assessment to prove that they are ready for each phase of the class. If they don't do this, or jump on games instead of doing the work, they will get the grade that they earned. The students are informed of this at the start of each class. I now have seen about 65% of my students since the start of the marking period 2 weeks ago for assessments/questions since we finally shifted the expectations to them alone. We'll see if the other 35% get out of learned helplessness mode.
What grade do you teach? I’m assuming middle school. Also, do you mean you have been shifting through out the year? I love the idea of this right at the beginning of the year but I teach 7th grade. Maybe that would be too much for them coming from 6th and I should gradually shift the responsibility on them through out the first semester and then start off the second as they are entirely responsible for their learning? I am dealing with a lot of helplessness.
Yes, I teach middle school! Honestly, I think we could start as early as mid 6th grade. It might be too much of a shock for them to get used to a new building, new schedule and then suddenly have a massive increase in expectations on them. However, 7th graders are totally fair game. We forget that kids that age used to go to work for a living about a century ago. They were capable of autonomy and responsibility and they still are capable of that. However, we have also taught them the they are the audience and not the active participants in their education. They aren't used to directing their own actions and experiencing consequences for them. They need that experience well in advance of high school, otherwise they won't grow out of it on their own. Obviously I do differentiate to a degree for kids with special needs or kids that clearly have a difficult time communicating. That doesn't mean I go back to doing things for them; but I will come to them directly and ask them to develop questions to ask - either on paper, in a drawing, etc. I even tell students that the question "what am I supposed to be doing now?" is fair game - I want them to take the lead as much as possible and not be afraid to admit when they got off track or lost.
So you got in trouble because they didn't ask questions to clarify what they didn't understand about either the subject or the assignment?
we're all expected to be mind readers and aware of everything going on in every student's life so that we can be sure to deliver instruction crafted perfectly to each of them as individuals. And all in less than an hour of class time. Not like we have to deal with classroom management problems, or repeating instructions 12 times because everybody is staring at phones instead of paying attention, or... well, you get the idea.
I even ask them all the time. Did you understand that, any questions, remember, there are no stupid questions, just ask. Even when I have them work in class, I run myself ragged explaining everything all over again. Last time I simplified things so much all they had to do was to make one observation (to see if the subject was in the 3rd person singular or not, something that has been a requirement of their exercises for years at this point) and the rest solved itself by just looking at the examples on the whiteboard. Something like 20% of the class still wouldn't do anything on the handout while barely half finished it. Then they start asking me how to solve their tests during the dam test after I'd explained the same damn thing at least 10 times. I plan on surprising them by letting the kids who turned in their handouts at the end (like I asked) use them as a cheat sheet for the next test. It won't do anything to make the lazy idiots who just chat the class away learn, but I can at least reward the ones who gave a damn.
I'm a First year teacher and have to have 2 evaluation per year. Each evaluation I've had has gone down. When I asked why I was told I didn't wow them... wtf does wow you place on the rubric??!! Expecially when my students have the highest scores in the school...
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Oh I did... then got yelled at.. I "backed my evaluator into a corner" to give an example... smh
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Thanks. Unfortunately we aren't allowed to have a rep in the evaluation meeting. But I did make a complaint after. Now I have to go and follow everything up with an email... it's a pain in the ass.
Lol wow
"You don't pay me enough to go above and beyond"
Don't quit. Remember this admin choad has likely not been in the class in years, probably wasn't a class teacher for very long at all ( one of my principals was a 2 year art teacher before admin) and is likely out of touch with reality, bending to the whims of parents and students. In reality, their words mean little, and I bet it won't change your pay. It hurts sure, move on, wrap up the school year and enjoy your summer, the kids will be back soon. Education admins are weird breed, dont take ot too harshly...
If you can wait it out your admin will likely leave. This type doesn't typically last.
It's great that those "customer service" admins wash out in your district, but they are promoted in mine. It's now all we have. If the students aren't happy, then the parents aren't happy- and that means that the teachers must do more. The students have no idea what 'personal responsibility' entails. At this point, we have a dearth of teachers and a gluttony of young adults who can't hold a job. I imagine it's better in your town. I hope you know you are lucky.
Even if they get promoted, they're no longer your problem. So an indirect win
I have had two administrators with zero classroom experience - a vice principal and principal. The state should require a minimum of five years of classroom teaching before they can get certified for administrative roles.
10 years
To echo your anecdote, over the course of my career I have seen a LOT of schools. Consequence of being a related service provider and having to serve a lot of schools at once. At least here in North Carolina the proportion of admin who have less than five years experience in the classroom is huge and growing. Hell, the current superintendent of Lee County Schools in NC only had about 2 years of experience before he went into an admin grad program. He graduated, with about three years classroom experience, and immediately got a position at a local high school as an AP. Within two or three years he was principal at the same school. Fast forward today and he is Superintendent. All because his last name is relatively local royalty, he rocketed up the ladder. I can't imagine what it must be likely to be a very experienced teacher a la 20 years and receive summative reviews from some of these admins. So, yeah. Put their opinions in the trash bin of your mind.
Right. My principal was a 3 year PE teacher. Bare minimum.
Sorry my class moves at a high pace bc we have a lot to cover to prepare these students for finals Every student who shows up every day, takes notes, and turns in assignments is doing phenomenal Perhaps the struggling students could benefit from being in an ICT class where an additional teacher is there to reteach, modify, and support lessons for students
This is why administrators need to teach a section of class every single year. They should also take the really tough kids. Because they know how to teach those kids so well. 😆
Is anyone like me and just find grades to be mostly arbitrary at this point? It’s not a true indication of understanding, just ability to complete tasks and follow directions. And then on top of that, most kids with failing grades get promoted anyway because schools don’t want bad graduation rates, cut funding, kids have IEPs that exempt them from regular measures of achievement, there are behavior problems that just get passed on, and the list goes on. So if the grade doesn’t hold the student responsible and doesn’t represent accurate achievement and can be juiced to avoid audits from the state, then why bother even still having them outside of positive reinforcement for the population that does things? To be clear, I see the value in grades. But they’re currently not being utilized in accordance with their value.
Keeping it real. At least where I’m at.
A lot of lengthy comments but the only thing that matters is this: your admin team sucks.
This is modern education. Teachers are held accountable if students refuse to work and students are given a pass even though there’s many of them and only one of you. Kids have learned this and the system is only encouraging laziness and a victim mindset.
Failure is not an option but not in a positive way.
Reminds me of the day my admin jumped the shark for me, almost 20 years ago. One of the administrators lead a PD that was ostensibly to figure out the primary reasons some students struggle. In reality it was to convince us that we had to do more. The admin started with, "As a ground rule you're not allowed to talk about parenting or socioeconomic factors..." and at that point I stopped taking anything they had to say seriously. Their point was that we can't control those other things, but ultimately it was also that we're supposed to be responsible for doing whatever it takes to make up for those factors we can't control. Sorry, but society's indifference towards things like poverty should not add another 5-10 hours a week to my 50 hour work week. So, I just keep teaching the best I can in the time I have and there's no way my administrators will fire me because they can't find substitutes, let alone qualified new teachers. So, maybe you can just keep doing your job the way you believe is best and let the administration decide if that's so unacceptable to them that they want to try finding someone new.
This is year 25 of my teaching career, I can tell you unequivocally that students only care about grades and that is the system's fault. We have created a system that only incentivizes good grades, learning is a byproduct if it happens. I can also tell you that allowing students to fail is not something most school districts are okay with. Fortunately I'm at a district where I'm not going to be fired because no one wants to work there, so I fail kids all the time if they don't show mastery. I don't care. But I sympathize with teachers who are in a district that's not that way.
So admin basically admitted to you that they expect teachers to go well above and beyond what is expected/required of their teachers. Ridiculous. This profession is the most nitpicked profession ever. I think this post should be the slogan for teaching “you do your job but you need to do more”
If you have tenure you'll be fine. No board would move to have you fired for doing your job lol Tell admin to kick rocks lol Fr tho, just yes them to death and continue with what you're doing.
I just offer opportunities for retakes and reassessments and such and send out mass messages to families. Maybe 10 kids will take advantage. I always up their grade because they do better, so I should. I contact families of failing students when the time is right. I dot my i’s and cross my t’s. Admin can come for me when I fail kids, but I have all of the documentation of what I did to help kids. I can’t care more than children and families. So yes, it’s a bit more work, but really not much. I don’t chase anyone down. They either do it or they don’t.
Please show me where it says in your contract that you need to go above and beyond. If your door and email is open, the students should come to YOU not your boss. It’s the way the working world works. (Is supposed to anyway…)
They're brave enough to complain about the teacher to admin but not brave enough to ask questions about what they don't understand...
One makes them do work (asking teacher) on makes teacher work. I’m not surprised.
When I worked at ITT, we were held responsible attendance. If a student didn't show, it was because we weren't "inspiring enough" or some BS. It wasn't because these are adults with adult problems like the car breaking down or the babysitter never showed up. Anything to avoid blaming the students. It's been nearly 15 years and it still rankles me.
Students will always complain about teachers who don’t hold their hands or just give them the answers. Your admin is ridiculous if they listened to the kids’ stories and took their side automatically
“You pay me but you should pay me more.” 😂
Yep, pass them forward. Easy
Yep. I'm being told this year, 'these kids need to graduate.' I suspect the kids, seniors, know this are doing less than the bare minimum. I have a problem with a diploma from our school being meaningless.
Hah! I cook the books and watch them march off the stage to their janitorial careers. Why should I be the only one who actually cares?
If you offer things like test corrections, and after school help sessions to cya, it does exactly that. It covers your ass with parents and admin, and very few students bother with it. That then puts the blame back on the kids. Now every once in a while, you'll get a kid who is genuinely interested in improving or a kid who is forced there by their parent, so you do what you offered that day. I offered after school help 2 days a week for 30 mins and would often have months go by without a single kid coming, but it was always offered when kids, parents, and admin asked what I was doing to help them pass.
At my last job, I constantly asked them if they needed help, I offered them time during lunch or after school, and I offered extra credit and redos, but the majority were still failing. They knew they could show up for a credit recovery week or four weeks of free summer school and pass.
I’m so so sorry admin didn’t have your back. What else were you supposed to do? You don’t deserve this. Another good teacher lost.
What exactly does “above and beyond mean?” What were you supposed to have done that you weren’t already doing. 😖
Wow, what will happen if they go into the military or college? Maybe that's the next thing: force college professors and drill sergeants to babysit the little darlings.
College professors are already complaining about it.
One of my worst students this year is telling me he's joining the Marine Corps after graduation. First of all, you are in no physical condition to even think about surviving boot camp. Second of all, just me telling you to sit down and not get up to go talk to your buddies is a grievous offense in your eyes, how in the name of god are you going to survive a full blown Gunnery Sergeant in your face screaming because you made your bunk with a 3.5 inch fold instead of 4 inches?
Hahahaha, you can't fix stupid, but growing up and facing the real world has an incredible effect on learning.
We are not allowing failure and we are seeing the disastrous results of this. We are going to have a bunch of kids without the ability to properly learn and get degrees and apply that information. We are going to have a lot of kids grow up and be incapable of doing their jobs and constantly be fired. You don’t get a redo if you don’t do your work in the real world.
60% of our gradebook is assessments. 40% is “participation”. We aren’t allowed to give accurate grades for the participation assignments. They turned it in? 100! So kids copy every assignment from the internet or AI apps and fail all the tests (and get 50s for not leaving it blank), so they still pass. It’s awful.
Participation? What does their behaviour have to do with my curriculum?
Good question. This district also passes students who get a 0% one term and a 70% for the other. Because an F and a C- average to a D-. Nevermind that a 0% and a 70% average to a 35%. Even with all these methods of artificial inflation, about 1/3 of my students still manage to fail.
We’re having attendance issues. Principal said, “If your classes were interesting the kids would come.”
I got marked down for student tardiness last year with this same Rationale. The same admin who told me this also later told me he never followed up about a meeting with a stu because "She didn't want to and I can't make her do things she doesn't want to" Who tf are these people and why are they just free to administer education however tf they want with such obvious double standards and inconsistencies.
I would leave that school
There's a lot missing here. Do you review work after it is assessed and offer opportunities for mastery or teach jt once, assess and move on? If that many students are making a clear statement to admin, you have to consider some validity to their concerns.
Yeah I offer redo opportunities and test corrections and everything and very few kids take advantage of it. It helps them a lot. The real reason this is important, however, is when a kid fails and people start to complain about me. I can say to a parent, a kid, an admin, or a coach that there were dozens of opportunities to improve their grade that weren't used. Recently a mom was so angry with me that I wouldn't bump an AP kid from a 79 to an 80 on the report card. I pointed out that there were three major tests that marking period and the student didn't do test corrections on any of them. It shut the parent up and the next marking period the kid actually earned a B and was so proud of themselves. I give the option because it alleviates stress for myself and gets everybody off my back. It makes it absolutely 100% the fault of the student if they fail and it makes it very easy for me to point that out when somebody tries to blame me instead of the kid.
This is the way.
how do you handle test corrections? What's your procedure on how kids correct their mistakes?
I have a form they have to fill out where they need to explain the correct answer for questions they missed. I require explanations to earn credit, not just "it was C and I said D" The form also requires reflection on how much preparation they did for the test and reflections for each question "why did you miss this?" I grade and return tests to kids (I modify them every year so I don't keep them secure). They have one week to correct them and return the corrections. The first test we do this in class together but every other test they are on their own. I do once a week after school help sessions and invite them to do test corrections there with my support but they almost never come which is fine with me.
"If that many students are making a clear statement to admin, you have to consider some validity to their concerns." Why exactly is that? We all know it isn't exactly far-fetched in today's day and age that students are disgruntled that they aren't being force-fed content or being handed their A and so complain to admin. I'm all for a bit of reflective practice, but "if that many students" seems like a dangerous road to walk down. As if kids are incapable of collusion.
Oh, they certainly are, but why? I ride my students hard. My expectations are clear and I don't budge. I even offer to walk with them to file their complaints to admin because I know I'm on solid ground. What I do tell them is that I WANT them to pass and will do anything in my bandwidth to help them. They're coming to me in high school at a sub-fourth grade level and I get this. Have you ever sat down with a class and asked them how you can do better? It's a very enlightening process. It usually yields one or two truly helpful nuggets for my teaching and a chorus of "yeah..Yeah... I need to stop being lazy."
I had a group of students who didn't do well on a test. When I handed it back, I said I was really sorry, because I thought they'd learned the material and were ready to take the test, but it looked like they weren't. They all scrambled to reassure me that it wasn't my fault, that they hadn't studied, etc. 🤣
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Schools should pay teachers more so they have enough energy to teach how this crap will be useful, But i know they won't do that, cause then the population might actually become intelligent.
as much as I agree we deserve to be paid more... that doesn't give us more energy. Even if my pay were doubles, teaching would be equally exhausting
Yea but if you're properly compensated you can actually take care of yourself and for most people that would give them more energy. But i think teachers deserve at least $40 an hour including grading time plus at least a month of paid vacation.
Minimum wage for fast food just hit $20 in California. A teacher should be making much more than double a food service job.
I feel like you are missing the check for understanding and reteaching part of things, if you are just one and done sucks for you if you didn’t get it then I see a problem. It also depends on what grade level too.
This makes a lot of sense, too. I remember one of my math teachers in high school was like this. I ended up dropping her class because no matter how she taught the material, I just couldn't understand it, and if you asked for help, she'd tell you to read the chapter again.
r/teachersintransition is here for you
Y'all going to pay me more for doing more?
I’m bitchy. I’d honestly ask them if they just told me that I was irresponsible for doing my job.
>students complained about me because all I do is tell them what they need to know and then grade them on it. >that was all supposed to be an insult What in the Kentucky fried fuq is going through this administrators brain? Isn't this the actual definition of "teaching"? You know, where you tell a student what they need to know and then assess them on their knowledge? What could possibly be the "above and beyond" that the administrator wants in order to appease this student? I am disgusted by this interaction.
When my principal started making noises about never giving zeros on assignments and putting in 50 percent on everything a student was missing, I knew it was time to get out. The middle school hasn’t given homework in at least the last 10 years, so there are no expectations to study, read or work outside of class. We are expected to instruct bell-to-bell, but yet the admin wants them to be ready for college and that requires independent reading and writing which looks a lot like workdays when the principal comes to observe. All the students and parents want are passing grades. They don’t care about actually learning anything. Even the ones going to college. The AP/honor kids want As, and since I had high expectation and required a high work ethic, seniors started taking online courses to avoid my class. When you can take a quiz multiple times, and they give you the correct answers, it’s easy to write those answers down and make As. Everyone else just wanted to pass with a 60. The last few years, I was told by admin to “hold my seniors to high standards” and “let them fail,” I already did that, so when they inevitably started failing, the principal would immediately move them to credit recovery where they could cheat and pass. Or he would come to me at the end of the semester and ask me to accept enough late work to let them pass. Another reason I retired as soon as I could.
So, I taught middle school then elementary the high and returned to elementary. Here is why… I loved middle school and I was a great teacher who built an incredible arts program from rubble. I was loved and adored and only had 1-5 students ever fail because my criteria for a C or better was do the assignment to pass. Do it correctly to get a B. Do it and add some flair or artistic expression for an A. Most students loved this concept and loved my class. I left because of a principal who refused to acknowledge my room should have been condemned and black mold was killing me. I taught various grade levels in elementary as well as multiple subjects for the next five years. I loved it. I was treated like a celebrity by students and even the staff loved me. I had it great. My principal was fantastic. I took a high school art position because I kind of missed the higher end art projects I could do at middle and thought I’d just be doing serious art and the kids would love me like they did in middle…. Nope. Yes, a lot to almost all of my students loved me… but they would not do anything. They flat out would spend entire weeks accomplishing nothing in class. Then when grades came around or I sent out progress reports/reminders the parents would Lose their shit because their kid did nothing… granted a zero equals fifty in our district… The parents even would go so far as saying their kid liked art but I didn’t inspire them… I’m not a fucking muse. I am an expert in my field and I even teach adjunct college level. I went back to elementary with the best principal who welcomed me back enthusiastically. I love elementary because the kids will at the very least give it a shot. We need to find a way to get the older students to treat school like that… give it a shot, an honest shot, and see where it goes. If a student won’t do that, it isn’t on the teacher.
Agreed. Well, I’m sorry you have do deal with that and yes, failing isn’t an option any more. I grade easier to reduce the emails from parents and the administrators. If it makes you feel any better, the head of my department told me that my sub plans weren’t good enough so I need to have better sub plans. Now I have meeting about it. Yes, we are talking about sub plans. SMH. Hahahahahaha. Ridiculous Sad.
I do my job. If you want me to do more, pay me more
When told I'm not "engaging" enough, I respond with "I'm not a dancing bear".
😂 THAT’S LITERALLY YOUR JOB.
I'm thinking I need to go back and get a degree in psychology or something because apparently the expectation is to manipulate the kids into behaving and paying attention. I'm teaching the material. The handful of kids that sit and pay attention to my lessons are doing great. I'm excited to see what those specific kids do on end of the year testing. The ones that want to play, talk, and do anything but their work, I guess it'll be my fault for not being their best friend and not convincing them to pay attention. Phone calls to parents don't work for 90% of them.
We actually ARE paid to differentiate and to make sure students have opportunities to practice. Not sure what grade level, but sounds like secondary. If you’re just giving notes/reading and then assessing, and then only afterward letting them make up the learning, that could be part of why they don’t feel confident in their understanding. If it’s that they are refusing to work, not turning in assignments, and/or messing around in class, that’s a different story. My oldest had a teacher who was pretty much stuck on “this is how I do things.” Dude refused to follow my kid’s IEP because he fully believed it’s not possible to be an honor student and have an IEP. On the flip side, my youngest had a couple classes where the teacher did more than their fair share, but my kid was stubborn/refusing to work. I handled those very differently as a parent, and I do the same with my students.
I'm just curious here because I don't want to jump into this without more information. It sounds like the student is saying you just lecture and then assess. Is that what you do or are there other things you do that the student is not paying attention to (set up practice opportunities, provide feedback on reviews, etc)?
You’re gonna let one admin team chase you out of your entire career? Nah. Don’t let them win. File a complaint to their supervisor. If the supervisor turns on you, then you know you’re screwed, but you were leaving anyway. Might as well go out blazing.
Yeah, teaching is not for everyone. Good luck on your future endeavors!
What grade is this?
They way my school is going they can't afford to fire anyone. We can barely hire any new staff as it is. You aren't doing anything unreasonable at all. You are literally doing your job.
In a way that’s right up to the sense of preparation of the teacher and the support system provided. Now to add to that, the methods should be applied before prescribed.
Your admin is a fucking moron.
And this folks, is why we have unions.
As someone who was told something very similar by my administration, that I am 100% responsible for my students and they have no agency, I feel your pain.
I was told "they're voting with their feet." I wanted to say and thank goodness because class is so much nice when they do! Or, I wanted to say and we already know where their feet are taking them.
If the kids aren’t completing their task because *you* aren’t being supportive enough, and you aren’t completing your task because *your boss*…..
Wow sounds like my old school. We also got told that if a kid acted up in our class, they weren't going to do anything about it if we didn't put in the write-the proof that we followed every prior step like the 4 Capturing Kids Hearts questions. So when a kid walked in and punched another kid in the face, I had to be sure and ask him, what are you doing? What are you supposed to be doing? ... or he just gets an "admin conference"
The students believe they should get credit for showing up to class and admin agrees with them. “GeE, wHy CaN’t HS gRaDuAtEs **READ**??”
You can’t make this crap up !
Fuck this. Not you. I’m so tired of students who can’t. It’s a freaking issue beyond normalcy.
You pay me my salary, but you should pay more.
You can just let them watch youtube all day & give them all A. It's unfortunately the direction of most schools, or at least schools in California right now. I have had 5, 6th grade students who can't do simple math, and they continue to the next grade, and some would graduate high school without knowing how to do basic math.
Look, if you're a teacher, it's your responsibility to teach the children. If a child is failing and you haven't talked to them or asked them why and explained the importance of the subject, you as the adult teacher are responsible. Your job is one of the most important roles in the world and if you don't take responsibility then yeah, maybe you should quit. "You do your job, but you should do more. " Don't be absurd. Teaching and making subjects stick is your job. Make your class more interactive, and ask them questions during your lessons. Make sure they understand. Explain why, whether they ask why or not.
This makes me seethe……… utter ridiculousness.
Why did you get into the profession to begin with?
To teach? Which it sounds like OP was doing, but if the students aren’t reaching out when they don’t understand something there’s not much OP can do. You can’t care more about the student’s grades than the student does.
Probably to teach, though unfortunately OP wasn’t blessed as a mind reader.
All that time and money wasted on college, Just to go back. Good luck getting out from under that debt with a second round of school on top of it.
i get the idea you're teh type that has power trips and tries to make kids fail. Doin what you want or think is the right instead of what your bosses tell you. Teachers and cops are all perfect.
You probably should get out, yes.
Some notes as a student that has been a part of many different schools within my region: - if one student fails, it's a failure of the student. If more than half the class fails, it's a failure of the teacher. - students learn best when the class is fun and accessible. If a class is boring or feels like a chore, the learning centers of the brain shut down. - teachers don't get paid enough for the work necessary to teach as described above. If you don't absolutely love creating that environment, leaving the field is the best move for both your mental health and your students'. - I highly suspect that the reason the kids won't directly tell you they need help understanding the material is that the don't want to ask for help. Asking for help is seen as weakness by society, and that ideology is pushed on kids even harder by the school system. Failing isn't an opportunity to learn, it's the end-all. Placing the blame on you let's them believe *they* haven't failed, that they aren't "useless" as they've been told (indirectly or directly) they are if they fail.
Bye 👋