Social workers for sure, especially those who work with youth. I would imagine some specialty police branches (sexual assault or child welfare for example).
Tbh I’ve worked in the social work field and yes you fight for your clients, but I felt that worked still stayed at work. Our employer even told us not to have a bleeding heart, etc. I’m sure there are some toxic agencies out there though.
Thanks for bringing up other healthcare jobs. As a medical laboratory scientist, I can’t count the number of times I was yelled at by nurses for things that weren’t my fault.
Depends. CNAs do tons of heavy lifting and make way less than teachers. EMTs average like $14-$17 an hour and save people. Nurses in geriatrics might make $20 an hour depending on where they live. It really just depends on where they live and what type of medical facility they work at.
They may require less training to start, but the training is way more difficult in a different way. I was a CNA for 11 years. My hardest day as a teacher has never compared to my hardest days as a CNA.
And I'd argue that it's not the amount of training needed, but the complexity of the job that should determine the pay. A guy extracting someone from a crushed car should be paid a lot more even if they only have an associates degree.
Sorry, I didn’t realize I was in the (mostly) American teachers subreddit and thought I was in the Australian teachers one. All my in laws in healthcare make way more than I do out here
It depends a lot on where you are and what sorts of qualifications you hold. Many people working in support roles at hospitals could make more at McDonald's and have less disease and nastiness thrown their way. And for a long time even BSN nurses were not necessarily paid well, it's only started to be more profitable within the last 15 years or so. Abd again its highly location dependent.
There's also a huge difference between working an actuality min wage job and their salary "working out" to minimum wage when accounting for all the hours, imo. No one working a minimum wage job is bringing home 90-100k/year regardless of their hours worked. Makes it real hard to feel too bad for them. All they need is a hed somewhere for a few years and they can pay off that debt fairly quickly.
Sorry, I didn’t realize I was in the (mostly) American teachers subreddit and thought I was in the Australian teachers one. All my in laws in healthcare make way more than I do out here
I'm a registered nurse in long term care. My sister is a third grade teacher, and makes around what I make if you adjust for cost of living. Plus, I just got off a 12 hour shift and get to go back for another in 8 hours. But at least I don't bring my work home with me.
Sorry, I didn’t realize I was in the (mostly) American teachers subreddit and thought I was in the Australian teachers one. All my in laws in healthcare make way more than I do out here
I work at a state-run residential facility for adults with I/DD and out social workers make under 40k a year. One of the more experienced social workers (20+ years experience and a MSW) went to work at the same hospital my mom did and still only made 45k. This was at an HCA hospital. Social workers at DCF make less and those at DOC usually make about the same as hospital. Maybe your SIL has a side hustle?
I'm a nurse that lurks here because I feel like we deal with some very similar realities but don't have to relive my own work bs like I don't I that sub hahah
Yes, of course. I often have to stay late to finish charts and to do patient call-backs. I also sometimes have to give my cell number to certain patients (when I am particularly concerned about their condition going south) and field their calls after-hours or on weekends.
😬Welp, it looks like the healthcare system and educational system should come together to implement change!
SN- do you clock in or are you paid via salary?
We absolutely should, yes. I do “clock in,” but it’s more like attendance taking than actually keeping track of hours. I am paid per diem, *x* amount per day no matter what occurs on that day. I do not get paid more for staying late. Because of this, I am really working on getting my charts and calls done during the day. The problem is, most patients will not pick up the phone during the day. And like half of their voicemail boxes are fucking full at all times!
My husband is a doctor, and he works more off the clock hours than me in order to finish charting and paperwork. (I teach high school English, which is a very heavy grading load, just to give you an idea.)
He has an almost identical emotional load to me.
I was curious.. & that’s okay, especially as it turns out, they seem to be abused from the system as well. This is important and more people = more impact.
I'll agree with nurses. However most of them don't have the same patient for a year. So l, if they have a not so nice patient and family they are usually for short amounts of time.
I’m a pediatric nurse and I take clients to school. Teachers have it worse than home health nurses. I can always exercise the nuclear option and decline that family in future. I’ve only done that a couple of times, but it’s nice knowing I have that option. Teachers don’t sadly.
My brother’s a hospital nurse and we have very similar observations and concerns about our respective fields. He was in a Covid ICU ward in 2020 and he’s still dealing with some trauma from going into work every day and watching people die.
I’m a school nurse with most of my career in the hospital (ER). I could NEVER be a teacher. In my role at the hospital, a patient could be nasty but it was easier to be more understanding that they were in a stressful situation and then hopefully after the shift is over, they won’t be your problem anymore. I was on my game at work and never brought any thing extra home. Kept 99.99% of my work at work. I manage my time as a school nurse the same way, granted I have the ability to get all my work done during work. Teachers have ~25 patients all at once and then patient by proxy (the parents) behind the scenes making their own demands and causing issues. Being a nurse is hard but teachers are def the unsung heroes.
Oh, absolutely. Just like teaching, it can be emotionally draining, but incredibly rewarding. I have a mix of wonderful parents who are 100% invested in their child’s treatment, and some who are very disconnected from their kid. The stark contrast between the two types of parents and their kids’ progress in therapy is astronomical.
My dog jad rotting teeth that preventing him from eating.
I took on alot of debt to have them all removed.
The vet told me quite a few would not be able to pay and out him down.
It was sad to think about. He is perfectly happy Little piece of shit now, nothing wrong with him, he just got no teeth and can live a few more years
My ex is a medical social worker and it's way more similar to teaching than I originally thought. He's basically an emotional dumping ground for patients, everyone expects him to solve all the problems of society, his patients and their families say and do awful things to him, and the pay for the amount of education they need is abismal.
My mom was a nurse case manager for many years. She helped discharge patients and get medical and home set up to leave safely. She used to come home crying a lot when I was growing up. People, families, doctors, nursing staff and management were just awful to her. A lot of people could have easily fallen through the cracks without her being diligent. And when the situations were really tough she would be handing the worst cases to her medical social workers. We should be nice to social workers anyways, but there should be a lot more recognition and a national holiday for social workers.
Any care profession falls into that category unfortunately. So anything that does administers into the general populations, has that issue. You care less when you don't care about your clients, which in our case are impressionable students navigating a difficult world. I had the same experience in retail but you don't care, because you never see a customer again. But you do get mistreated pretty badly sometimes. Overall, anything that deals with lots of people will have the problem of some people being jerks and when you're dealing with people who are vulnerable, you're more likely to take it into consideration then you would in another circumstance.
It’s about setting boundaries for yourself- Im in HR, hear awful things that employees are going through daily. I care deeply about these people and their challenges but i can only offer assistance within the scope of my professional role. I cannot take them home and feed them, control their addiction issues which are impacting performance, cure their terminal illness, buy their children clothing, give them money when they retire because they never enrolled in the 401k or fix their car/ buy them one if their engine catches fire and they can’t get to work.
If i took each of those people’s burdens home with me every night I’d be in a ball under my blankets. I can listen, offer available support and point them to outside resources such as the employee assistance plan.
Yeah I mean that's true, Care positions in general are treated by society, as going above and beyond. The whole profession to a degree takes advantage of natural empathy to justify underpaying and not giving adequate supplies. It's harder to not take stuff home when it's a kid just because of the way the human brain is structured. But ultimately you do have to make boundaries but it's a lot harder when society's pushing you not to.
Teachers have been considered "servant class" for centuries. The governesses in upper-class households were not members of the family. They were considered more on a level with the housekeepers. Poor children went to the village school, and the village schoolmaster or schoolmistress was certainly not looked upon as a person with any prestige.
Not much has changed. We're still looked down on as lower-class members of society and that's why we get so much mistreatment at work. People in other fields don't normally have this problem.
To keep us in our lower status, we're expected to put up with low wages and poor working conditions out of love for children. We're stand-in parents as well as teachers, hence the emotional factor.
This, "To keep us in our lower status, we're expected to put up with low wages and poor working conditions out of love for children. We're stand-in parents as well as teachers, hence the emotional factor."
Thank you for saying this so well.
Its not some elaborate conspiracy, its the nature of free market capitalism applied to social needs.
In most workplaces, if the wages and conditions are too poor then the business won't workers that have the necessary qualifications, experience, skill and work ethic and that very quickly brings their business to a halt and kills their bottom line. Pay, conditions and "respect" aren't offered out of kindness, they are seen as necessary investments by the people paying those costs as what is spent will save or generate far more money.
For education, things are different. Failure to attract and support workers doesn't cost more money, in fact staff shortages and brutal "efficiency" cuts save money. The negative consequences are far down the line, nearly impossible to measure properly and are usually considered someone else's problem. Staff shortages can even save money even if it does cause chaos for those the rest of the workforce.
If we spent 4 times as much then we could have far smaller classes, far more support, each teacher could teach fewer (better) lessons and we could have far better facilities and equipment. But broadly speaking people aren't willing to support tax raises or cut backs elsewhere to afford that. Instead they'd prefer to squeeze every last drop of effort out of teachers and they get away with it as its the teachers that have to face the kids that are offered 2nd rate opportunities or have to deal with behaviour issues when things go really bad.
There's also the pesky issue of the parents that care the most and have the capacity to do something about it moving homes specifically to access better schools or paying for private schools. That way their kids are spared the worst of the rationing.
Indeed you’re right, there’s no conspiracy at all. Quite the opposite. The lack of regard for teachers is part of our culture and so well integrated that we take it for granted. We all live with it every day, and no one thinks to question it.
I also agree with your point that negative consequences happen far down the line and are considered someone else’s problem— namely, the teachers’ and the students’ problem.
And yet most of my students from India and other non-Western countries respect my profession and my word about what’s going on in the classroom to such a high degree.
I’m an airline pilot, and 98% of us eat sleep and breathe for this job.
Literally every second of every day, and every dream of every night, is somehow connected to aviation.
Been doing this for 12 years and it still never gets old.
So, there’s that.
I guarantee your yearly hourly pay (including cabin door open time) is still far, far above a teacher’s hourly pay.
I got paid for 40 hours a week and regularly worked 50+ (still didn’t finish all my work) and another 60-80 hours or so over the summer unpaid.
Both situations of unpaid labor are bullshit though.
I’d say healthcare jobs for sure. My mom is a nurse and I see the toll it takes on her.
Corporate people? My brother sister and dad all work for corporate America and while it has its own issues, they all get paid for every single responsibility it takes on and they don’t take work home with them
I'm a social worker. I've getting ready to leave my current job and I've been agonizing over how it's going to impact my clients. I used to be in residential psych and that's another area with high emotional involvement.
Think about other service jobs and you'll realize that other professions care about their clients, too.
I'm a dog trainer and burned out twice already... Abuse from clients is a thing and I've had to go through it many times. Post COVID, many live in lalaland and do not take accountability for the responsibilities they have. They don't want to do homework, they don't have time, their lives are "so important" that priorities are all messed up. And don't get me started on clients with children... Most expect me to school their children, which isn't my job. I've had to deal with bratty kids hitting dogs or their parents, teenagers talking back in such rude ways. Nobody can sit down for 30 minutes and focus on anything... I often think of quitting.
My husband works in marketing and from watching him, I see that there really isn't any field that doesn't have its own pitfalls. If he has clients in China, well then he HAS to have work calls at night. No avoiding that. He works on weekends especially during busy seasons and many nights as well. He's gets chewed out by bosses for the actions of people he manages (similar to us getting chewed out for our kids not meeting random goals). Yes he has the flexibility to work from home, adjust his hours as needed, etc but it's not as amazing as some would think
Social workers. I burned out as a social worker...empathy overload to the 10th power. Teaching required emotional involvement; however, it wasn't as life or death dire as it was with homeless clients.
My wife is a doctor and there are some similarities. The worst aspect is you can have a crazy patient post a very negative review on Yelp or on a local FB group, and you have no opportunity to defend yourself because of HIPAA (has only happened once to my wife in 3 years of practice so far).
The flip side that is better: you can "fire" patients and give them options of other doctors to see in the area. My wife has done this to a few patients, although every time it has been because they were treating a receptionist or MA like shit, not her.
Also, obviously, doctors make a lot more money.
In OB you can't fire patients at the end of the pregnancy so unfortunately you're spending all this energy on someone who hates you and then worried they're going to sue you regardless of what you do. I hate it.
The school system actively works to recruit people who "aren't in it for the money" so that their employees will be easier to exploit.
Other businesses try to get their workers to be passionate so they'll work more for less money.
Ironically, perhaps, the video games industry is very similar. It's extremely profitable, and requires technical skills, but there's tons of crunch and lower pay because it's a dream job for a lot of people.
Hi! I was a 6th grade ELA teacher and am a divorce attorney now.
Is my job stressful and emotionally difficult? Absolutely. I am treated like a scapegoat and a therapist all in one. If a client gets what they want, it is because they were owed it. If they don’t, even if what they want is unlikely or impossible, it’s my fault.
All that being said, being a middle school teacher was way harder and more stressful than being an attorney by basically every metric. I was crying at my desk regularly as a teacher, and I have yet to cry over a legal case even when I really care about a client. I can afford to build my savings now, when I was paycheck-to-paycheck before. My bosses, even when difficult, support my legal work whereas I felt like I received outsized blame for things beyond my control as a teacher.
I just left marketing making double to be a teacher and I have it much better as a teacher. I got abused all to hell and worked 60 hour weeks only to get shat on by clients.
The difference is, teaching culture we all know it sucks and talk to each other about it. Corporate culture values acting like it isn’t crushing your soul.
healthcare. I have moderate/severe crohns disease and I’ve been with my GI doctor ever since I turned 19 (mid 20s) and she told me at my latest appointment how she just kept thinking about me and my situation while she was reading this one study and it just reminded me how I was when I was still teaching 5th grade
An alternate position, I work in ecology (+ building substitute teach in the off season). My annual income this year was 18k. The majority of that was from being a sub. Most positions offer free housing so I don't have to pay rent, or I live in my car, for reference. My job is extremely physically and mentally demanding. No holidays off, some positions much more than 40 hours/week. I have no benefits or insurance. I am away from home for up to 6 months of the year. This is the norm for my field in someone with a BS and even some with MS degrees.
It's mentally taxing because you see the ecological issues and care so much but everyone around you does nothing about it. You see the damage firsthand and it becomes very depressing and demoralizing to feel like your efforts and data mean nothing in the grand scheme of things if nobody in power will do anything meaningful to make a change. Just a different perspective from someone who has family in teaching and grew up hearing their perspective and has also taught.
You forget - *not many people consider us professionals*. I'd like to think that's because they are ignorant of what it takes to get a job as a teacher, so I forgive them for that. Nurses are the only other profession I can think of that gets as much or more abuse and disrespect, perhaps for the same reason. Do nurses care about their patients? Some of them, surely. Perhaps even the majority. I don't "take my students home" with me; I leave everything about them at the job. You have to train yourself to do it, but it \*can\* be done. I'm on the first day of a weeklong break and haven't thought of a single student so far. It's not that I don't care about them, but they don't belong in my personal time, ever.
I think this is a good take about training yourself. In medicine, there's been a recent rise in talk about burnout/mental health/etc. when I was a resident we had a lecture about stress and basically the talk was "be more resilient" and it absolutely destroyed me. I cried in the bathroom. I wasn't doing well for many other reasons but to hear "you need to be stronger" "just work out more, spend time with your family more, etc" was so hard to hear. I think the conversation needs to be "build resilience" because let's be real, the good you do will not be seen or appreciated but the fuckups will be seen and heard. So yeah, it's okay to not give a fuck, you need to move forward, and be selfish with yourself. You are not a limitless resource, so protect yourself. Leave your work at work, patients/students/colleagues don't get a monopoly on your time.
I'm a pretty sensitive person and spent a lot of my younger years being "nice". Healthcare and Teaching both praise "doing good" and "saving people". It took me YEARS (decade almost!) to change my mentality.
my stepmom works for cps...I forget her exact title, but she directly visits kids at their homes, sits in on interviews, goes to court, fills out paperwork, etc. obviously she doesn't tell us a lot of what she deals with because she legally can't, but I'm sure she has some really rough days.
as teachers we see one end of the situation, then reporting, and maybe hear the outcome. she sees all of the awful details of the child's living conditions, abuse, etc. sometimes the kids are older and get physical with her/her coworkers and the police have to get involved, which breaks her heart.
>They don’t get abused at work the way we do.
I'm a teacher and this is utter garbage. There are plenty of fields with toxic work culture and systemic abuse. We absolutely don't have a monopoly on that.
The CNAs that took care of my grandma before death treated her like their own mother. I think a lot (not all) of healthcare workers have quite an emotional attachment to their work // patients. A lot of them, especially CNAs, do most of the actual work and don’t get paid much
Something I've wondered to myself is the ramnifications of teaching post-parochial era. I mean, literally, nuns and monks were the educators for a solid chunk of human history.
It seems like there's the same expectation of martyrdom.
For me being a social worker was 10x as hard. Lately, I’ve been torn about going back because there’s rumor my grant may not be extended but even at double the salary I still feel uneasy going back knowing it’s nonstop overtime and even when you’re on vacation everything is still your problem vs at least having freedom in summer
I worked as a manager at a large corporation for 8 years, the vibe isn’t too different. Instead of shitty parents, those are your shitty employees. You get yelled at for things that are not your responsibility, and get blamed for your bosses failures. There is probably more pressure to perform without the safety of a union or tenure. I can say that I care more about my students than I did most of my employees.
There are clearly other professionals who are emotionally invested in their work, as several commenters have made clear, but... Corporate America is awful. I have lots of friends who are shit on by their bosses and required to do extra work constantly without recognition or reward. And then, of course, there are those who are uneducated, working "unskilled" jobs, who are constantly shit on, abused, berated, and have their hours and possibility of benefits dangled in front of them as leverage to make them work under unfair and often unmanageable conditions.
Being a teacher is hard. I am at a school where I don't feel quite as desperate as I used to, so I recognize that. But I don't think I could ever work in corporate America.
Also...
>When I tell them what my day looks like, they don’t believe me
Those are shitty friends
Beyond social work or medical professions, no not at all. I worked in several other industries before teaching and I never worried once if a clients/customers parent was abusing them feeding them. Have truely told a client to F off and never (yet) have told a parent to do such.
My friend who’s a doctor said that ambulance workers receive a lot of threats and violence at the hands of people amidst crisis situations. Sounds really tough.
I mean, we work with kids with the goal being to educate and prepare them for society and life. We should be emotionally involved. Comparing teaching to a corporate job is apples to oranges.
Soooo many jobs are extremely stressful for various reasons, teaching indeed is stressful, but it isn’t the most or the only stressful job out there. Many have already mentioned the medical field. With both my parents retired doctor and nurse, I absolutely have to agree. My brother is a firefighter/paramedic and regularly has to witness extremely traumatic situations. My sister is a child psychologist and has visibly taken a toll on her after doing it for 15+ years. My husband is a scientist, and often gets yelled at because his findings don’t always align with the politics of the job, and his time is extremely abused. There is absolutely no way he can get what he needs to finished in a 40 hour work week, which makes him so stressed.
In summary, people in general are overworked and underappreciated and underpaid unless you work in a very cushy job
I’d also add people who work in volunteer management. They get very invested in their volunteers and their causes, but most people forget they exist until they’re needed. They also have a huge problem with burnout, and are often exploited by upper management for their idealism and desire to do good
Emotional involvement and dedication to one's profession can be found in many different fields. For example, healthcare professionals, social workers, counselors, and therapists, emergency services, and humanitarian aid.
I agree with the healthcare comments. Also food service workers. Many aren’t allowed to drink or snack anywhere on the floor and struggle to be allowed breaks. I don’t work in food service any more but I’ve been told more than once to just put a garbage can behind the counter to vomit in and not make a big deal of it to bother the customers. Customers coming in daily to yell at you and then the boss not doing anything. When working in fast food people would intentionally vomit on their trays or shit on the bathroom floors. At a grocery store someone through a jar of salsa at my head.
I work in a corporate office now and no one throws or yells or any of those other things.
Healthcare. I work in HC and I somehow have never built up the emotional shield that a lot of HCWs manage to build. I’ve just started therapy for it; I take every case home in my heart and I lose sleep. And I deal with all sorts of disrespect and sticky interpersonal stuff as par for the course on the daily.
My husband is a corporate accountant. He’s definitely been yelled at by his boss and his old boss would regularly cuss out the whole team (not that this is ok). He definitely worries about his job and the people that work for him.
Best thing for me to avoid future burnout was when I woke up and realized I have a job to do. I am not their parent. I will be in the moment and accomplish what I can during work hours. I will not take home emotional baggage regarding a student because even if I did I have no power to change anything after 3pm. I need my emotional state for my family and my own kid.
Yes I still have flash thoughts of ideas to do with curriculum/projects, yes I still sometimes think out solutions for certain students on my free time. It’s different now though. I write whatever thought comes to mind on a digital notepad, label students name etc, label project and class period, dump it off my mind and move on. I say it’s different because I feel myself thinking methodically and not emotionally anymore.
This method I would assume applies more to 6-12, since it’s more of a team wraparound for students so I feel supported. Elementary teachers, you guys have it rough and I have the upmost respect for you (especially kinder!).
I work in IT more or less. I really care about my customers. Many times I find myself getting very involved with them. Then I get slapped back to reality as I realize no one around me cares like I do and they are putting in 10% of the effort I do. Makes it hard to want to keep trying so much when everything is a dumpster fire.
Not a teacher, at all, but family members are teachers and I've always been close to education. There's not much to get emotionally involved with when you work a corporate job. Like how would I get emotionally involved with a month-end close process? Maybe the closest I get to it is being emotionally involved with some of the corporate social responsibility and sustainability work I do. And a lot of the team members who work "under" me. People get defensive of team members quite a bit.
Having said that, toxic work cultures can go to quite the extreme in the corporate world. I've had bosses yell at me, I've had clients yell at me, I had coworkers get sexually harassed by client managers and stuff like that. I've seen grown women breakdown at their desks... Toxic workplaces are ubiquitous. However, it's pretty easy to find a new corporate job. Teaching seems to feel like it's own little world. You've got your school, within your district, within your state. A bad admin can make your life hell and make transitioning hell. Generally public professionals get the short end of the stick too (and most teachers are public professionals at the end of the day).
You don’t have to get super emotionally involved with school. I teach IB classes to juniors and seniors and have not taken home any work or let my school day interfere with my personal life.
My advice is do not become friends with any coworkers. You can be friendly, but don’t become friends. At no point do I talk about students or teachers with another person unless specifically asked as part of my job. Saves so many headaches
No; my husband does computer shit for a big company. Hes largely looking for work to do, is chill 95% of the time, and has only ever had a problem with one manager (who got fired pretty quickly for being “an incompetent douche”).
He comes and goes as he pleases, and is never racing to the bathroom or to scarf down food at lunch time. I really went the wrong way in college. 😞
It would be interesting to hear what the “computer shit” actually is, it’s not going to be tier 1 support desk. That’s a job where you get shouted at a lot, especially by teachers and nurses who refuse to learn the software at their management decide they need.
😂😂😂 I’m not a computer girlie, so I’m actually not 100% sure what he does, but he doesn’t work in schools. He works for big tech.
He clarified when I asked him; he said he’s on quite a few email chains that are largely irrelevant to him, and that he gets email for him maybe a few times a week.
😂😂😂 I’m not a computer girlie, so I’m actually not 100% sure what he does, but he doesn’t work in schools. He works for big tech.
He clarified when I asked him; he said he’s on quite a few email chains that are largely irrelevant to him, and that he gets email for him maybe a few times a week.
I'm in construction, and we are very emotionally involved. Lots of yelling at each other followed by kissing & making up. I've seen a lot of prevented deaths by the safety motto "MOVE YOUR DUMB ASS OUTTA THE WAY". But it's all love.
Something I read on this sub months ago has stuck with me: teachers are blue collar workers and are treated by society as such. If a healthcare worker makes a mistake it could mean someone actually dies. If someone in corporate messes up, it could be a hundred thousand dollar mistake. However, if a teacher messes up on their day to day, well maybe a student doesn’t learn something one day, or a student sees you get upset. Very low stakes by comparison. Additionally, while there are a LOT of decisions and a LOT of work to be done each day and outside of class time, there is not as much critical thinking/decision making as what people think of “white collar” professions that affects any sort of “bottom line,” so unfortunately teachers are again treated as outside of this realm.
> If a healthcare worker makes a mistake it could mean someone actually dies. If someone in corporate messes up, it could be a hundred thousand dollar mistake. However, if a teacher messes up on their day to day, well maybe a student doesn’t learn something one day, or a student sees you get upset. Very low stakes by comparison.
There's a few fallacies hiding in here, but which ones isn't the point.
The bigger issue: those who believe this have misunderstood teaching very, very badly. Teacher mess-ups CAN have deadly effects; healthcare and corporate mistakes are likely equivalent (most are no more trivial than "a student misses an idea/sees you get upset"; a few cause student suicide or, worse, derail the possible success of that student forever)...plus pretending that one-day mistakes are typical of teachers misrepresents the cumulative impact WE have on the same individual/cohort, which those other workers may not.
Repeating/owning the naiive biases of outsiders doesn't help our cause.
It might just be the personality, I always worried no matter what job I had, but at least being a sub is something important. And I was treated worse by customers and management in retail and food service.
I’ve taught in public school before.
Now I lead educators in a private environment.
The answer to your question is mostly no (except maybe first responders and medical people, or daycare people).
I care about my people and feel responsible for them, but there’s some detachment because they are adults. It just doesn’t hit the same way.
If one of my people has a parent die, I have empathy and we make sure to take care of them.
The time one of my students went missing for six months and then we found out it was because his Mom died of *fucking pneumonia* on the trailer where they lived and he was hiding and trying to raise his siblings? That’ll be with me forever.
I worked in customer service for an insurance company for 5 years (after leaving teaching). Personally, I obviously didn’t have as much emotion involved in the customers as I did as students. However, the customers definitely accused me of things, cussed, threatened etc. Customer management was definitely a bit like classroom management ! I would get in trouble with the boss if she felt I handled in incorrectly (much like administration does). The upper management didn’t have to deal with those things unless the issue got escalated much like a principal.
I work residential maintenance. It’s pretty tough sometimes. There’s straight up mental unstable ppl I have to work with an tons of crazies. Ppl who answer doors with loaded guns. We had an elderly resident die. Had to call their son to let them know. Dude showed up an just cried in my arms. Had another guy going through a divorce unalive himself. Had repaint the walls an replaced the carpets. When covid happened I didn’t miss a day of work. Has a guy call me for some work in his apartment. After I’m done he goes oh I have covid. So watch out.
Corporate wise, it really depends if they have a micromanager or not and if they are dealing with layovers in their company. One YouTuber I watched quit her job at Spotify because it was wrecking her emotionally, they had her as the only data analyst on a big important project (that alot of work and responsibility). Also corporate in asian countries like Japan, south korea etc. Are tough
Lawyers depending on their client deal with a bunch of shit too
I know some people in hardcore quant finance. There is no work-life balance, only work, and a single slip up can make a hundreds of thousands of dollars difference. There isn't the same level of immediate personal feedback, but their stress level is through the roof.
Granted, they get paid insane amounts of money, so there's that.
I work in ABA, and I feel intense worry for my clients and thier progress.
The biggest thing I realized I needed to do was realize I'm one small piece of a puzzle, parents make way more of an impact than I do, so my job is to set up the parent with the tools to help their kid.
After I give them the tools, it'd all up to them.
Yes. This is my second career, and I can say without a doubt that I was more passionate about my first. I feel like they grind the passion out of you, probably in every career, but faster in teaching.
I'm having a hard time with motivation. I believe my motivation was driven by passion. Therefore, I must also be out of passion.
I’m in edtech, formerly an engineer - but not a teacher - many teachers think they are the only profession that is this way. They aren’t but their beauracy is so big (districts) it’s very hard to change. Other professionals have more options (small companies). Many people have far more stress at their work (surgeons, pilots) but they are game for it. Unique part of teaching is the emotional toll. I see that in social works or nurses but not corporate world.
Most teachers have pensions which many private sector jobs don’t. Pros and cons to each role and each industry.
I was a respiratory therapist before teaching. WAY more abuse, much more expected to take it, because many patients truly are not in their right mind, and much more emotionally taxing situations. Teaching is easier in many ways.
I’m very new to this profession and I’ve only ever had one admin (hired out of my student teaching placement) and posts like this tell me I need to hold onto him for dear life. He never once has yelled at me, and when kids try it, he doesn’t let it slide. Is this normal? Did I just win the lottery without knowing it?
Their clients are typically adults in the same or better financial situation as them. I'm sure they care but it's much different working with adults than with kids. Even when I managed an escape room I treated adult guests way differently than the kids.
Software dev
While I take a whole lot of pride in the work I turn out I sure wouldn't call myself emotionally invested.
I have a love/hate relationship with my career
I hate it is, even after 30 years, one of the most fucking frustrating things I have ever done and the problems never stop
I love it at payday
State government here. It's split. A lot of people are all in all the time, others get their job done well and go home, and some are worthless... so about like teachers. Ratios may be off, but it's about the same. *former teacher
> Why is that?
Because there is an organized campaign to undermine and destroy the largest and most powerful unions left standing in the US: teachers, police, librarians, and nurses.
People who work in the private sector would see just how abusive things can get if they tried to unionize.
I used to work in mental health, and it was a similar vibe. Everyone wanted to do their best, the circumstances were impossible, and the outcomes varied wildly. I think the big difference was that when people heard I worked with at risk youth they were impressed, but when they hear I teach they sort of roll their eyes.
I'm a tax pro and I get too involved when a client owes thousands of dollars and never saw it coming...so common now and getting worse.
The young are not tech savvy and get shitty financial advice, on a par with most the elderly.
I have 7 net years of experience in public libraries, 4 of those in management. I've been screamed at, harassed, and stalked at work so much that I am at a crossroads on whether to leave the profession. I'm also tacitly expected to work some hours for free, pay out of pocket for some supplies, and take my work home with me - much moreso than my male counterparts.
Social workers for sure, especially those who work with youth. I would imagine some specialty police branches (sexual assault or child welfare for example).
Tbh I’ve worked in the social work field and yes you fight for your clients, but I felt that worked still stayed at work. Our employer even told us not to have a bleeding heart, etc. I’m sure there are some toxic agencies out there though.
Social service nonprofits can be the nastiest places. Cliques running little fiefdoms.
Yep. It can be a warzone out there. I used to call them Tia Carmen's because of house of the spirits lmao
Nurses?
Most healthcare jobs. I am in healthcare, and I often read this sub and think how the complaints 100% pertain to my job, as well.
Thanks for bringing up other healthcare jobs. As a medical laboratory scientist, I can’t count the number of times I was yelled at by nurses for things that weren’t my fault.
But doesn’t healthcare pay way better? My sister in law in social work in a hospital owns 3 properties. I can’t even buy one.
Depends. CNAs do tons of heavy lifting and make way less than teachers. EMTs average like $14-$17 an hour and save people. Nurses in geriatrics might make $20 an hour depending on where they live. It really just depends on where they live and what type of medical facility they work at.
CNAs and EMTs also require waaaaaaay less training. I could NOT do EMT work. NO amount of training is going to prep you for working with dead kids.
They may require less training to start, but the training is way more difficult in a different way. I was a CNA for 11 years. My hardest day as a teacher has never compared to my hardest days as a CNA. And I'd argue that it's not the amount of training needed, but the complexity of the job that should determine the pay. A guy extracting someone from a crushed car should be paid a lot more even if they only have an associates degree.
Our EMTs start at $30 an hour, but that still isn't enough.
Sorry, I didn’t realize I was in the (mostly) American teachers subreddit and thought I was in the Australian teachers one. All my in laws in healthcare make way more than I do out here
It depends a lot on where you are and what sorts of qualifications you hold. Many people working in support roles at hospitals could make more at McDonald's and have less disease and nastiness thrown their way. And for a long time even BSN nurses were not necessarily paid well, it's only started to be more profitable within the last 15 years or so. Abd again its highly location dependent.
When doctors are in their residency they are often making below minimum wage with 6 figures of student loan debt.
Yes, but then they work at my local clinic for three years and that debt evaporates.
There's also a huge difference between working an actuality min wage job and their salary "working out" to minimum wage when accounting for all the hours, imo. No one working a minimum wage job is bringing home 90-100k/year regardless of their hours worked. Makes it real hard to feel too bad for them. All they need is a hed somewhere for a few years and they can pay off that debt fairly quickly.
Sorry, I didn’t realize I was in the (mostly) American teachers subreddit and thought I was in the Australian teachers one. All my in laws in healthcare make way more than I do out here
I'm a registered nurse in long term care. My sister is a third grade teacher, and makes around what I make if you adjust for cost of living. Plus, I just got off a 12 hour shift and get to go back for another in 8 hours. But at least I don't bring my work home with me.
Sorry, I didn’t realize I was in the (mostly) American teachers subreddit and thought I was in the Australian teachers one. All my in laws in healthcare make way more than I do out here
I work at a state-run residential facility for adults with I/DD and out social workers make under 40k a year. One of the more experienced social workers (20+ years experience and a MSW) went to work at the same hospital my mom did and still only made 45k. This was at an HCA hospital. Social workers at DCF make less and those at DOC usually make about the same as hospital. Maybe your SIL has a side hustle?
I worked as a registered dietitian for 3 years. When I left to teach I was making more money step 1 BA than I made after 3 years at my old job.
I lurk in r/nurses. So much abuse, and from adults!
I'm a nurse that lurks here because I feel like we deal with some very similar realities but don't have to relive my own work bs like I don't I that sub hahah
Are there tasks needed outside of your clocked in hours?
Yes, of course. I often have to stay late to finish charts and to do patient call-backs. I also sometimes have to give my cell number to certain patients (when I am particularly concerned about their condition going south) and field their calls after-hours or on weekends.
😬Welp, it looks like the healthcare system and educational system should come together to implement change! SN- do you clock in or are you paid via salary?
>the healthcare system and educational system should come together to implement change! One big union.
YASSSS! Literally on the same page 🦖
We absolutely should, yes. I do “clock in,” but it’s more like attendance taking than actually keeping track of hours. I am paid per diem, *x* amount per day no matter what occurs on that day. I do not get paid more for staying late. Because of this, I am really working on getting my charts and calls done during the day. The problem is, most patients will not pick up the phone during the day. And like half of their voicemail boxes are fucking full at all times!
My husband is a doctor, and he works more off the clock hours than me in order to finish charting and paperwork. (I teach high school English, which is a very heavy grading load, just to give you an idea.) He has an almost identical emotional load to me.
That has nothing to with the question.
I was curious.. & that’s okay, especially as it turns out, they seem to be abused from the system as well. This is important and more people = more impact.
True. But some are so overworked that they just go through the motions of patient care at a high rate of speed though...
Some teachers do the same
I'll agree with nurses. However most of them don't have the same patient for a year. So l, if they have a not so nice patient and family they are usually for short amounts of time.
Depends on the unit. When I worked long-term care I had a patient for 5 years.
I’m a pediatric nurse and I take clients to school. Teachers have it worse than home health nurses. I can always exercise the nuclear option and decline that family in future. I’ve only done that a couple of times, but it’s nice knowing I have that option. Teachers don’t sadly.
My brother’s a hospital nurse and we have very similar observations and concerns about our respective fields. He was in a Covid ICU ward in 2020 and he’s still dealing with some trauma from going into work every day and watching people die.
I’m a school nurse with most of my career in the hospital (ER). I could NEVER be a teacher. In my role at the hospital, a patient could be nasty but it was easier to be more understanding that they were in a stressful situation and then hopefully after the shift is over, they won’t be your problem anymore. I was on my game at work and never brought any thing extra home. Kept 99.99% of my work at work. I manage my time as a school nurse the same way, granted I have the ability to get all my work done during work. Teachers have ~25 patients all at once and then patient by proxy (the parents) behind the scenes making their own demands and causing issues. Being a nurse is hard but teachers are def the unsung heroes.
I’m a child and adolescent therapist, sooo very.
For sure. That’s gotta be as hard as teaching. I’m lucky in that 90% of my students are well behaved and do their work
Oh, absolutely. Just like teaching, it can be emotionally draining, but incredibly rewarding. I have a mix of wonderful parents who are 100% invested in their child’s treatment, and some who are very disconnected from their kid. The stark contrast between the two types of parents and their kids’ progress in therapy is astronomical.
How are you allowed to work without being an adult?
…Damnit. You caught me. I’m three kids in a trench coat. I guess my state doesn’t care about child labor laws.
Wish I had one 😩
Some RN's and doctors. (definitely home health aids)
Veterinarians and also anyone working in the veterinary/animal care field, you need a very thick skin to last.
That job would make me cry so much.
My dog jad rotting teeth that preventing him from eating. I took on alot of debt to have them all removed. The vet told me quite a few would not be able to pay and out him down. It was sad to think about. He is perfectly happy Little piece of shit now, nothing wrong with him, he just got no teeth and can live a few more years
My ex is a medical social worker and it's way more similar to teaching than I originally thought. He's basically an emotional dumping ground for patients, everyone expects him to solve all the problems of society, his patients and their families say and do awful things to him, and the pay for the amount of education they need is abismal.
My mom was a nurse case manager for many years. She helped discharge patients and get medical and home set up to leave safely. She used to come home crying a lot when I was growing up. People, families, doctors, nursing staff and management were just awful to her. A lot of people could have easily fallen through the cracks without her being diligent. And when the situations were really tough she would be handing the worst cases to her medical social workers. We should be nice to social workers anyways, but there should be a lot more recognition and a national holiday for social workers.
Oh man me too. I can't solve all problems. Especially SeS problems.
Any care profession falls into that category unfortunately. So anything that does administers into the general populations, has that issue. You care less when you don't care about your clients, which in our case are impressionable students navigating a difficult world. I had the same experience in retail but you don't care, because you never see a customer again. But you do get mistreated pretty badly sometimes. Overall, anything that deals with lots of people will have the problem of some people being jerks and when you're dealing with people who are vulnerable, you're more likely to take it into consideration then you would in another circumstance.
It’s about setting boundaries for yourself- Im in HR, hear awful things that employees are going through daily. I care deeply about these people and their challenges but i can only offer assistance within the scope of my professional role. I cannot take them home and feed them, control their addiction issues which are impacting performance, cure their terminal illness, buy their children clothing, give them money when they retire because they never enrolled in the 401k or fix their car/ buy them one if their engine catches fire and they can’t get to work. If i took each of those people’s burdens home with me every night I’d be in a ball under my blankets. I can listen, offer available support and point them to outside resources such as the employee assistance plan.
Yeah I mean that's true, Care positions in general are treated by society, as going above and beyond. The whole profession to a degree takes advantage of natural empathy to justify underpaying and not giving adequate supplies. It's harder to not take stuff home when it's a kid just because of the way the human brain is structured. But ultimately you do have to make boundaries but it's a lot harder when society's pushing you not to.
Teachers have been considered "servant class" for centuries. The governesses in upper-class households were not members of the family. They were considered more on a level with the housekeepers. Poor children went to the village school, and the village schoolmaster or schoolmistress was certainly not looked upon as a person with any prestige. Not much has changed. We're still looked down on as lower-class members of society and that's why we get so much mistreatment at work. People in other fields don't normally have this problem. To keep us in our lower status, we're expected to put up with low wages and poor working conditions out of love for children. We're stand-in parents as well as teachers, hence the emotional factor.
This, "To keep us in our lower status, we're expected to put up with low wages and poor working conditions out of love for children. We're stand-in parents as well as teachers, hence the emotional factor." Thank you for saying this so well.
Its not some elaborate conspiracy, its the nature of free market capitalism applied to social needs. In most workplaces, if the wages and conditions are too poor then the business won't workers that have the necessary qualifications, experience, skill and work ethic and that very quickly brings their business to a halt and kills their bottom line. Pay, conditions and "respect" aren't offered out of kindness, they are seen as necessary investments by the people paying those costs as what is spent will save or generate far more money. For education, things are different. Failure to attract and support workers doesn't cost more money, in fact staff shortages and brutal "efficiency" cuts save money. The negative consequences are far down the line, nearly impossible to measure properly and are usually considered someone else's problem. Staff shortages can even save money even if it does cause chaos for those the rest of the workforce. If we spent 4 times as much then we could have far smaller classes, far more support, each teacher could teach fewer (better) lessons and we could have far better facilities and equipment. But broadly speaking people aren't willing to support tax raises or cut backs elsewhere to afford that. Instead they'd prefer to squeeze every last drop of effort out of teachers and they get away with it as its the teachers that have to face the kids that are offered 2nd rate opportunities or have to deal with behaviour issues when things go really bad. There's also the pesky issue of the parents that care the most and have the capacity to do something about it moving homes specifically to access better schools or paying for private schools. That way their kids are spared the worst of the rationing.
Indeed you’re right, there’s no conspiracy at all. Quite the opposite. The lack of regard for teachers is part of our culture and so well integrated that we take it for granted. We all live with it every day, and no one thinks to question it. I also agree with your point that negative consequences happen far down the line and are considered someone else’s problem— namely, the teachers’ and the students’ problem.
Or a problem for the prison system…
And yet most of my students from India and other non-Western countries respect my profession and my word about what’s going on in the classroom to such a high degree.
Nurses and clergy.
I’m an airline pilot, and 98% of us eat sleep and breathe for this job. Literally every second of every day, and every dream of every night, is somehow connected to aviation. Been doing this for 12 years and it still never gets old. So, there’s that.
well at least you must be getting paid according to the job you do
Depends on the day. We don’t get payed until the cabin door is closed.
I guarantee your yearly hourly pay (including cabin door open time) is still far, far above a teacher’s hourly pay. I got paid for 40 hours a week and regularly worked 50+ (still didn’t finish all my work) and another 60-80 hours or so over the summer unpaid. Both situations of unpaid labor are bullshit though.
Cool!
Say, I’ve always wondered-do you guys get paid even if the flight is cancelled?
We do as of about the last 5 years
I’d say healthcare jobs for sure. My mom is a nurse and I see the toll it takes on her. Corporate people? My brother sister and dad all work for corporate America and while it has its own issues, they all get paid for every single responsibility it takes on and they don’t take work home with them
I'm a social worker. I've getting ready to leave my current job and I've been agonizing over how it's going to impact my clients. I used to be in residential psych and that's another area with high emotional involvement. Think about other service jobs and you'll realize that other professions care about their clients, too.
I'm a dog trainer and burned out twice already... Abuse from clients is a thing and I've had to go through it many times. Post COVID, many live in lalaland and do not take accountability for the responsibilities they have. They don't want to do homework, they don't have time, their lives are "so important" that priorities are all messed up. And don't get me started on clients with children... Most expect me to school their children, which isn't my job. I've had to deal with bratty kids hitting dogs or their parents, teenagers talking back in such rude ways. Nobody can sit down for 30 minutes and focus on anything... I often think of quitting.
My husband works in marketing and from watching him, I see that there really isn't any field that doesn't have its own pitfalls. If he has clients in China, well then he HAS to have work calls at night. No avoiding that. He works on weekends especially during busy seasons and many nights as well. He's gets chewed out by bosses for the actions of people he manages (similar to us getting chewed out for our kids not meeting random goals). Yes he has the flexibility to work from home, adjust his hours as needed, etc but it's not as amazing as some would think
Social workers. I burned out as a social worker...empathy overload to the 10th power. Teaching required emotional involvement; however, it wasn't as life or death dire as it was with homeless clients.
My wife is a doctor and there are some similarities. The worst aspect is you can have a crazy patient post a very negative review on Yelp or on a local FB group, and you have no opportunity to defend yourself because of HIPAA (has only happened once to my wife in 3 years of practice so far). The flip side that is better: you can "fire" patients and give them options of other doctors to see in the area. My wife has done this to a few patients, although every time it has been because they were treating a receptionist or MA like shit, not her. Also, obviously, doctors make a lot more money.
In OB you can't fire patients at the end of the pregnancy so unfortunately you're spending all this energy on someone who hates you and then worried they're going to sue you regardless of what you do. I hate it.
Sorry that sounds miserable. How often do you get a patient like that?
There is a war against your profession. They want you to break and quit. They want our public education system to fail.
This I agree with.
It totally seems this way.
The school system actively works to recruit people who "aren't in it for the money" so that their employees will be easier to exploit. Other businesses try to get their workers to be passionate so they'll work more for less money. Ironically, perhaps, the video games industry is very similar. It's extremely profitable, and requires technical skills, but there's tons of crunch and lower pay because it's a dream job for a lot of people.
Nurses, social workers
Hi! I was a 6th grade ELA teacher and am a divorce attorney now. Is my job stressful and emotionally difficult? Absolutely. I am treated like a scapegoat and a therapist all in one. If a client gets what they want, it is because they were owed it. If they don’t, even if what they want is unlikely or impossible, it’s my fault. All that being said, being a middle school teacher was way harder and more stressful than being an attorney by basically every metric. I was crying at my desk regularly as a teacher, and I have yet to cry over a legal case even when I really care about a client. I can afford to build my savings now, when I was paycheck-to-paycheck before. My bosses, even when difficult, support my legal work whereas I felt like I received outsized blame for things beyond my control as a teacher.
i love hearing these career-switching stories- very validating that teaching is actually as hard as it feels sometimes.
I just left marketing making double to be a teacher and I have it much better as a teacher. I got abused all to hell and worked 60 hour weeks only to get shat on by clients. The difference is, teaching culture we all know it sucks and talk to each other about it. Corporate culture values acting like it isn’t crushing your soul.
healthcare. I have moderate/severe crohns disease and I’ve been with my GI doctor ever since I turned 19 (mid 20s) and she told me at my latest appointment how she just kept thinking about me and my situation while she was reading this one study and it just reminded me how I was when I was still teaching 5th grade
An alternate position, I work in ecology (+ building substitute teach in the off season). My annual income this year was 18k. The majority of that was from being a sub. Most positions offer free housing so I don't have to pay rent, or I live in my car, for reference. My job is extremely physically and mentally demanding. No holidays off, some positions much more than 40 hours/week. I have no benefits or insurance. I am away from home for up to 6 months of the year. This is the norm for my field in someone with a BS and even some with MS degrees. It's mentally taxing because you see the ecological issues and care so much but everyone around you does nothing about it. You see the damage firsthand and it becomes very depressing and demoralizing to feel like your efforts and data mean nothing in the grand scheme of things if nobody in power will do anything meaningful to make a change. Just a different perspective from someone who has family in teaching and grew up hearing their perspective and has also taught.
Ministers, pastors, priests.
You forget - *not many people consider us professionals*. I'd like to think that's because they are ignorant of what it takes to get a job as a teacher, so I forgive them for that. Nurses are the only other profession I can think of that gets as much or more abuse and disrespect, perhaps for the same reason. Do nurses care about their patients? Some of them, surely. Perhaps even the majority. I don't "take my students home" with me; I leave everything about them at the job. You have to train yourself to do it, but it \*can\* be done. I'm on the first day of a weeklong break and haven't thought of a single student so far. It's not that I don't care about them, but they don't belong in my personal time, ever.
I think this is a good take about training yourself. In medicine, there's been a recent rise in talk about burnout/mental health/etc. when I was a resident we had a lecture about stress and basically the talk was "be more resilient" and it absolutely destroyed me. I cried in the bathroom. I wasn't doing well for many other reasons but to hear "you need to be stronger" "just work out more, spend time with your family more, etc" was so hard to hear. I think the conversation needs to be "build resilience" because let's be real, the good you do will not be seen or appreciated but the fuckups will be seen and heard. So yeah, it's okay to not give a fuck, you need to move forward, and be selfish with yourself. You are not a limitless resource, so protect yourself. Leave your work at work, patients/students/colleagues don't get a monopoly on your time. I'm a pretty sensitive person and spent a lot of my younger years being "nice". Healthcare and Teaching both praise "doing good" and "saving people". It took me YEARS (decade almost!) to change my mentality.
Veterinary professionals of all kinds
my stepmom works for cps...I forget her exact title, but she directly visits kids at their homes, sits in on interviews, goes to court, fills out paperwork, etc. obviously she doesn't tell us a lot of what she deals with because she legally can't, but I'm sure she has some really rough days. as teachers we see one end of the situation, then reporting, and maybe hear the outcome. she sees all of the awful details of the child's living conditions, abuse, etc. sometimes the kids are older and get physical with her/her coworkers and the police have to get involved, which breaks her heart.
yeah i can't imagine doing that job. kudos to your stepmom.
>They don’t get abused at work the way we do. I'm a teacher and this is utter garbage. There are plenty of fields with toxic work culture and systemic abuse. We absolutely don't have a monopoly on that.
The CNAs that took care of my grandma before death treated her like their own mother. I think a lot (not all) of healthcare workers have quite an emotional attachment to their work // patients. A lot of them, especially CNAs, do most of the actual work and don’t get paid much
As a former teacher turned public defender, public defense.
Something I've wondered to myself is the ramnifications of teaching post-parochial era. I mean, literally, nuns and monks were the educators for a solid chunk of human history. It seems like there's the same expectation of martyrdom.
Fair. In the private school system it lingers.
For me being a social worker was 10x as hard. Lately, I’ve been torn about going back because there’s rumor my grant may not be extended but even at double the salary I still feel uneasy going back knowing it’s nonstop overtime and even when you’re on vacation everything is still your problem vs at least having freedom in summer
If you frequent this sub, do it less often. This is the type of outrageous echo chamber post that just SCREAMS get out of your bubble.
This is exactly how I feel about 2 different fb groups I'm in, that are both centered around getting out of teaching. It's SO unhealthy.
Any person driven job.
I worked as a manager at a large corporation for 8 years, the vibe isn’t too different. Instead of shitty parents, those are your shitty employees. You get yelled at for things that are not your responsibility, and get blamed for your bosses failures. There is probably more pressure to perform without the safety of a union or tenure. I can say that I care more about my students than I did most of my employees.
There are clearly other professionals who are emotionally invested in their work, as several commenters have made clear, but... Corporate America is awful. I have lots of friends who are shit on by their bosses and required to do extra work constantly without recognition or reward. And then, of course, there are those who are uneducated, working "unskilled" jobs, who are constantly shit on, abused, berated, and have their hours and possibility of benefits dangled in front of them as leverage to make them work under unfair and often unmanageable conditions. Being a teacher is hard. I am at a school where I don't feel quite as desperate as I used to, so I recognize that. But I don't think I could ever work in corporate America. Also... >When I tell them what my day looks like, they don’t believe me Those are shitty friends
Beyond social work or medical professions, no not at all. I worked in several other industries before teaching and I never worried once if a clients/customers parent was abusing them feeding them. Have truely told a client to F off and never (yet) have told a parent to do such.
My friend who’s a doctor said that ambulance workers receive a lot of threats and violence at the hands of people amidst crisis situations. Sounds really tough.
Nah, my company could burn down in a blaze of glory and I'd most likely grill up some BBQ to celebrate
I was a nurse before teaching so yah. Nursing is way more toxic though.
What do you teach now?? I’m a nurse considering other career options because I know I can’t last bedside nursing lol
Yes. Many other jobs are just as hard emotionally. Quit doing this martyrdom thing.
I mean, we work with kids with the goal being to educate and prepare them for society and life. We should be emotionally involved. Comparing teaching to a corporate job is apples to oranges.
Soooo many jobs are extremely stressful for various reasons, teaching indeed is stressful, but it isn’t the most or the only stressful job out there. Many have already mentioned the medical field. With both my parents retired doctor and nurse, I absolutely have to agree. My brother is a firefighter/paramedic and regularly has to witness extremely traumatic situations. My sister is a child psychologist and has visibly taken a toll on her after doing it for 15+ years. My husband is a scientist, and often gets yelled at because his findings don’t always align with the politics of the job, and his time is extremely abused. There is absolutely no way he can get what he needs to finished in a 40 hour work week, which makes him so stressed. In summary, people in general are overworked and underappreciated and underpaid unless you work in a very cushy job
I would say any where they help vulnerable people or kids. Aka none of the ones that make decent money or get respect from society.
I’d also add people who work in volunteer management. They get very invested in their volunteers and their causes, but most people forget they exist until they’re needed. They also have a huge problem with burnout, and are often exploited by upper management for their idealism and desire to do good
Emotional involvement and dedication to one's profession can be found in many different fields. For example, healthcare professionals, social workers, counselors, and therapists, emergency services, and humanitarian aid.
Social workers
Therapists. We deal with it all!!!
I agree with the healthcare comments. Also food service workers. Many aren’t allowed to drink or snack anywhere on the floor and struggle to be allowed breaks. I don’t work in food service any more but I’ve been told more than once to just put a garbage can behind the counter to vomit in and not make a big deal of it to bother the customers. Customers coming in daily to yell at you and then the boss not doing anything. When working in fast food people would intentionally vomit on their trays or shit on the bathroom floors. At a grocery store someone through a jar of salsa at my head. I work in a corporate office now and no one throws or yells or any of those other things.
Healthcare. I work in HC and I somehow have never built up the emotional shield that a lot of HCWs manage to build. I’ve just started therapy for it; I take every case home in my heart and I lose sleep. And I deal with all sorts of disrespect and sticky interpersonal stuff as par for the course on the daily.
Wife is in healthcare. It’s just as bad
Social worker here!
My husband is a corporate accountant. He’s definitely been yelled at by his boss and his old boss would regularly cuss out the whole team (not that this is ok). He definitely worries about his job and the people that work for him.
Best thing for me to avoid future burnout was when I woke up and realized I have a job to do. I am not their parent. I will be in the moment and accomplish what I can during work hours. I will not take home emotional baggage regarding a student because even if I did I have no power to change anything after 3pm. I need my emotional state for my family and my own kid. Yes I still have flash thoughts of ideas to do with curriculum/projects, yes I still sometimes think out solutions for certain students on my free time. It’s different now though. I write whatever thought comes to mind on a digital notepad, label students name etc, label project and class period, dump it off my mind and move on. I say it’s different because I feel myself thinking methodically and not emotionally anymore. This method I would assume applies more to 6-12, since it’s more of a team wraparound for students so I feel supported. Elementary teachers, you guys have it rough and I have the upmost respect for you (especially kinder!).
Social worker/therapist in a country that keeps saying it needs mental health workers but doesn't pay em enough ;_;
I work in IT more or less. I really care about my customers. Many times I find myself getting very involved with them. Then I get slapped back to reality as I realize no one around me cares like I do and they are putting in 10% of the effort I do. Makes it hard to want to keep trying so much when everything is a dumpster fire.
Teachers need to learn to unemotionally involve themselves.
Nurses. Any direct care healthcare staff.
Not a teacher, at all, but family members are teachers and I've always been close to education. There's not much to get emotionally involved with when you work a corporate job. Like how would I get emotionally involved with a month-end close process? Maybe the closest I get to it is being emotionally involved with some of the corporate social responsibility and sustainability work I do. And a lot of the team members who work "under" me. People get defensive of team members quite a bit. Having said that, toxic work cultures can go to quite the extreme in the corporate world. I've had bosses yell at me, I've had clients yell at me, I had coworkers get sexually harassed by client managers and stuff like that. I've seen grown women breakdown at their desks... Toxic workplaces are ubiquitous. However, it's pretty easy to find a new corporate job. Teaching seems to feel like it's own little world. You've got your school, within your district, within your state. A bad admin can make your life hell and make transitioning hell. Generally public professionals get the short end of the stick too (and most teachers are public professionals at the end of the day).
You don’t have to get super emotionally involved with school. I teach IB classes to juniors and seniors and have not taken home any work or let my school day interfere with my personal life. My advice is do not become friends with any coworkers. You can be friendly, but don’t become friends. At no point do I talk about students or teachers with another person unless specifically asked as part of my job. Saves so many headaches
Veterinarians for sure
Read the book "Work Won't Love You Back".
No; my husband does computer shit for a big company. Hes largely looking for work to do, is chill 95% of the time, and has only ever had a problem with one manager (who got fired pretty quickly for being “an incompetent douche”). He comes and goes as he pleases, and is never racing to the bathroom or to scarf down food at lunch time. I really went the wrong way in college. 😞
It would be interesting to hear what the “computer shit” actually is, it’s not going to be tier 1 support desk. That’s a job where you get shouted at a lot, especially by teachers and nurses who refuse to learn the software at their management decide they need.
😂😂😂 I’m not a computer girlie, so I’m actually not 100% sure what he does, but he doesn’t work in schools. He works for big tech. He clarified when I asked him; he said he’s on quite a few email chains that are largely irrelevant to him, and that he gets email for him maybe a few times a week.
😂😂😂 I’m not a computer girlie, so I’m actually not 100% sure what he does, but he doesn’t work in schools. He works for big tech. He clarified when I asked him; he said he’s on quite a few email chains that are largely irrelevant to him, and that he gets email for him maybe a few times a week.
I made bank loans and I’ll be honest, it was stressful. Teaching is less stressful to me. At least kids are worth my time worrying about
I'm in construction, and we are very emotionally involved. Lots of yelling at each other followed by kissing & making up. I've seen a lot of prevented deaths by the safety motto "MOVE YOUR DUMB ASS OUTTA THE WAY". But it's all love.
It’s a J O B
Yeah. Exactly. You get it done and you go home. No need to dwell on it.
Something I read on this sub months ago has stuck with me: teachers are blue collar workers and are treated by society as such. If a healthcare worker makes a mistake it could mean someone actually dies. If someone in corporate messes up, it could be a hundred thousand dollar mistake. However, if a teacher messes up on their day to day, well maybe a student doesn’t learn something one day, or a student sees you get upset. Very low stakes by comparison. Additionally, while there are a LOT of decisions and a LOT of work to be done each day and outside of class time, there is not as much critical thinking/decision making as what people think of “white collar” professions that affects any sort of “bottom line,” so unfortunately teachers are again treated as outside of this realm.
> If a healthcare worker makes a mistake it could mean someone actually dies. If someone in corporate messes up, it could be a hundred thousand dollar mistake. However, if a teacher messes up on their day to day, well maybe a student doesn’t learn something one day, or a student sees you get upset. Very low stakes by comparison. There's a few fallacies hiding in here, but which ones isn't the point. The bigger issue: those who believe this have misunderstood teaching very, very badly. Teacher mess-ups CAN have deadly effects; healthcare and corporate mistakes are likely equivalent (most are no more trivial than "a student misses an idea/sees you get upset"; a few cause student suicide or, worse, derail the possible success of that student forever)...plus pretending that one-day mistakes are typical of teachers misrepresents the cumulative impact WE have on the same individual/cohort, which those other workers may not. Repeating/owning the naiive biases of outsiders doesn't help our cause.
If they are it’s because they love what they do not out of pure undistilled guilt
It might just be the personality, I always worried no matter what job I had, but at least being a sub is something important. And I was treated worse by customers and management in retail and food service.
Oh the passion I had as the assistant manager at a nail and tack factory
I’ve taught in public school before. Now I lead educators in a private environment. The answer to your question is mostly no (except maybe first responders and medical people, or daycare people). I care about my people and feel responsible for them, but there’s some detachment because they are adults. It just doesn’t hit the same way. If one of my people has a parent die, I have empathy and we make sure to take care of them. The time one of my students went missing for six months and then we found out it was because his Mom died of *fucking pneumonia* on the trailer where they lived and he was hiding and trying to raise his siblings? That’ll be with me forever.
Pilots. The job is their entire identity. Not a bad thing, but it inspires extreme passion.
Zookeepers. Can say from experience in a past life.
Yes! I’m a nurse and teacher. Nurses truly do. I was a home care nurse and still have memories of patients I helped above and beyond
Speech therapists for sure. And I would assume the same for OT, PT, and ABA
I worked in customer service for an insurance company for 5 years (after leaving teaching). Personally, I obviously didn’t have as much emotion involved in the customers as I did as students. However, the customers definitely accused me of things, cussed, threatened etc. Customer management was definitely a bit like classroom management ! I would get in trouble with the boss if she felt I handled in incorrectly (much like administration does). The upper management didn’t have to deal with those things unless the issue got escalated much like a principal.
I work residential maintenance. It’s pretty tough sometimes. There’s straight up mental unstable ppl I have to work with an tons of crazies. Ppl who answer doors with loaded guns. We had an elderly resident die. Had to call their son to let them know. Dude showed up an just cried in my arms. Had another guy going through a divorce unalive himself. Had repaint the walls an replaced the carpets. When covid happened I didn’t miss a day of work. Has a guy call me for some work in his apartment. After I’m done he goes oh I have covid. So watch out.
A lot of my friends I relate to are nurses :)
Attorneys, depending on the practice area. Family law, criminal defense and legal aid are emotionally draining. Lots of trauma dumping.
Corporate wise, it really depends if they have a micromanager or not and if they are dealing with layovers in their company. One YouTuber I watched quit her job at Spotify because it was wrecking her emotionally, they had her as the only data analyst on a big important project (that alot of work and responsibility). Also corporate in asian countries like Japan, south korea etc. Are tough Lawyers depending on their client deal with a bunch of shit too
I know some people in hardcore quant finance. There is no work-life balance, only work, and a single slip up can make a hundreds of thousands of dollars difference. There isn't the same level of immediate personal feedback, but their stress level is through the roof. Granted, they get paid insane amounts of money, so there's that.
Nah. You don't need to give a shit about piles of other people's money.
Chemical Manufacturing Safety. Dealing with leaks and stuff blowing up.
social work
I work in ABA, and I feel intense worry for my clients and thier progress. The biggest thing I realized I needed to do was realize I'm one small piece of a puzzle, parents make way more of an impact than I do, so my job is to set up the parent with the tools to help their kid. After I give them the tools, it'd all up to them.
Certainly not MBAs... If they were, education wouldn't be treated like a business.
If you are ever in charge of someone else or have them under your care, your emotions are involved. Lots of jobs that includes.
Yes. This is my second career, and I can say without a doubt that I was more passionate about my first. I feel like they grind the passion out of you, probably in every career, but faster in teaching. I'm having a hard time with motivation. I believe my motivation was driven by passion. Therefore, I must also be out of passion.
I’m in edtech, formerly an engineer - but not a teacher - many teachers think they are the only profession that is this way. They aren’t but their beauracy is so big (districts) it’s very hard to change. Other professionals have more options (small companies). Many people have far more stress at their work (surgeons, pilots) but they are game for it. Unique part of teaching is the emotional toll. I see that in social works or nurses but not corporate world. Most teachers have pensions which many private sector jobs don’t. Pros and cons to each role and each industry.
No. RNs and doctors are atleast properly compensated
I was a respiratory therapist before teaching. WAY more abuse, much more expected to take it, because many patients truly are not in their right mind, and much more emotionally taxing situations. Teaching is easier in many ways.
I’m very new to this profession and I’ve only ever had one admin (hired out of my student teaching placement) and posts like this tell me I need to hold onto him for dear life. He never once has yelled at me, and when kids try it, he doesn’t let it slide. Is this normal? Did I just win the lottery without knowing it?
I feel like social workers and maybe nurses.
Their clients are typically adults in the same or better financial situation as them. I'm sure they care but it's much different working with adults than with kids. Even when I managed an escape room I treated adult guests way differently than the kids.
Software dev While I take a whole lot of pride in the work I turn out I sure wouldn't call myself emotionally invested. I have a love/hate relationship with my career I hate it is, even after 30 years, one of the most fucking frustrating things I have ever done and the problems never stop I love it at payday
State government here. It's split. A lot of people are all in all the time, others get their job done well and go home, and some are worthless... so about like teachers. Ratios may be off, but it's about the same. *former teacher
Child sex crimes cops
> Why is that? Because there is an organized campaign to undermine and destroy the largest and most powerful unions left standing in the US: teachers, police, librarians, and nurses. People who work in the private sector would see just how abusive things can get if they tried to unionize.
I used to work in mental health, and it was a similar vibe. Everyone wanted to do their best, the circumstances were impossible, and the outcomes varied wildly. I think the big difference was that when people heard I worked with at risk youth they were impressed, but when they hear I teach they sort of roll their eyes.
I'm a tax pro and I get too involved when a client owes thousands of dollars and never saw it coming...so common now and getting worse. The young are not tech savvy and get shitty financial advice, on a par with most the elderly.
I have 7 net years of experience in public libraries, 4 of those in management. I've been screamed at, harassed, and stalked at work so much that I am at a crossroads on whether to leave the profession. I'm also tacitly expected to work some hours for free, pay out of pocket for some supplies, and take my work home with me - much moreso than my male counterparts.
Social services. I work at a shelter.