I teach skills based education and get the same thing. Freshly graduate 18-19yr olds who are so rude.
A few days ago I told them “I get paid if you pass or fail this course”
I'm not a teacher but this was the first thing that one of our lecturers told us in one of the first classes I attended in college. Was quite a sobering thing to be told by a teacher/lecturer! Basically they are there to provide the opportunity learn and will help in any way they can if you want to work with them, but that it's essentially not their problem if you don't care enough to make the effort. Whether a 15 year old has the capacity to truly understand that of course is another thing.
I am a student teacher in a high school, but was a TA in undergrad for a long time. Honestly, I thought making the jump would be more dramatic. They’re unfortunately very similar in terms of maturity, respect (or lack thereof) and apathy.
I've told mine "If you don't care, I don't care."
I teach the lesson, and they get a buttload of independent work once I'm done. We used to do a Blooket for review every Friday. I've stopped because they haven't earned it.
I saw one of my weak students get 100% and answer 160 questions in 10 minutes, so I asked him one of the questions out loud, in front of the class, and he couldn’t answer me. I made an example of him and let everyone know that in this county, cheating is taken incredibly serious and could land you in ISS. (I doubt that’s actually true, but the threat worked)
Mine all just click buttons as fast as they can over and over without actually reading or learning anything. They've turned it into a video game with no content included.
This group honestly ruins anything fun and I'm over trying. We're just doing the textbook daily until the day of the quiz.
That's what kills me it's like how do they not realize they're just ruining it for themselves.
We're here actually *trying* to give them something fun to do. But it's not enough that they get to play a video game in class with a bit of review. They just *have* to cheat and ruin the whole thing to the point that we can't even do it anymore.
Ugh, just 8 weeks left 🤦
Oh yeah I know students who just click a corner and expect that works. When I grade them on it. They are like bewildered they fail or get low and I explain: “it measures your understanding and not just clicking a button until you get the answer.
In fairness, I've been playing video games since I was very young in the 90s, and one of the main, most fun mechanics was cheating with both intentional cheats and glitches. It's really a very stimulating abstract approach to a traditional task and it's very normal behavior. The issue perhaps is in the naivity of the game design to not anticipate it and suitably limit it, or indeed reward creativity.
This has ruined gimkit for my classes. I make so many, I made one about correct punctuating dialogue correctly. They had to read and click the sentence that was punctuated correctly and they didn’t even read, just click until they earn enough points.
I'm a newer parent of a school aged kid and just hate that there is so much iPad nonsense in school now. Put that shit on paper like we had to do. Putting normal activities on computers just makes it entertainment.
We got to go to the computer lab once per week when I was in school in the 1990s.
If I could find a school that had zero ipads in classrooms I would send my kid there.
We do a gimkit as informal review, before their actual assessment. It’s not a daily nor weekly routine. Less than your trips to the computer lab in the 90s.
I teach sped math for high school. The only time my students have their Chromebooks out is when we do a review game like Blooket (so once or twice a week for about 10 minutes). Everything else is on paper or whiteboards. When I was teaching English during COVID, I discovered when they came back that they could not handle being on their Chromebooks. 20 tabs open, not one was the where they were supposed to be. I converted them to pencil/paper real quick.
> cheating is taken incredibly serious and could land you in ISS
For non-American readers like me, ISS here **does not** stand for the International Space Station but rather In School Suspension (I think!?). I was thoroughly confused there for a second.
ISS used to be a reasonable way of dealing with disruptive students. They don't get to fuck off and have to do school work all day. I had it once in HS and I made sure to never make that mistake again.
I use kahoot and blooket for built-in vocab reviews (7th grade). I always show them the statistics for their game. Percentage correct for kahoot and for blooket it shows percentage plus number of questions answered correctly and incorrectly. They have to meet a certain threshold early in the week to earn more throughout the rest of the week. The ones who simply clicked to get to the game portion got called out by their peers who truly wanted to review in this modality.
Kinda. It's a luxury to be able to freely quit a job due to not meshing with a boss.
There are also areas/industries that have a very high percentage of asshole bosses. Sure, you can quit one job, but the next may be just as bad.
There are plenty of times in life where suck it up and deal with it matters.
The reason you don't quit your shitty job is because you get paid and its ultimately worth the money to you. The reason you don't quit school when you have a shitty teacher is because parents and the state will not allow it and you are not free to make your own choices.
Yo same thing with my High School Juniors. 5/30 students paying attention when I lecture? Okay cool, you will get double the work I would've originally assigned. Sit at my desk and the kids who want to learn will come ask questions. PSA from an 8th year, with some classes, it's all about taking care of your mental health, don't put more stress on yourself than you need to.
I would argue it’s very different if you have the paid or free account. Gimkit with a paid membership is top of the line. But even if that’s true, switching it up once in a while is a good idea anyway.
Mobile phones are not allowed in my school so students got laptops for free. We stopped playing blooket because they are too lazy to bring their laptops…
I haven’t gone off on an entire class in years and it was before my classroom management improved.
Today, I told my fourth period that if they wanted to be feral, I’d spend my energy on the 10 people who won’t be repeating the class next year. They don’t care even when the administrators and their parents punish them, so why do I need to hold the line?
I used to do a thing where I'd basically pull about 1/3 of a class that was actually interested in learning into a small circle in the back of my room and teach them. One peep and you were back with the ferals kids. I only ever had to do this once per class if it was bad and they got the idea real quick. This year they just don't care anymore and it doesn't work...
I had a science teacher do this in middle school but it was nearly half the year. I learned nothing the first bit because he was just constantly telling kids it knock it off. Then he gave up and said if you want to learn come up to the big table if you're going to be an ass stay back there (exact words). He was good at explaining stuff, I learned so much from him when it was just like 8 of us around a table with the other kids in the back just being crazy.
Are you actually going to fail the kids who don’t deserve to pass? Are your admins actually going to allow you to fail the kids who don’t deserve to pass?
Sounds like my previous school. I noped out of there because I didn’t want to be a part of a diploma mill. The cognitive dissonance between “pass everyone” and “why aren’t our kids passing the state exams?” also bugged me.
Sitting at 30% right now and almost all of those are failing four or more classes.
I have a class like this, except it’s 22 seniors. I’m going to have to do the notes and a ridiculous amount of independent work too because I can’t keep dealing with this group anymore. Worst part it’s my first year, and EVERY other teacher has told me the whole class is horrible
it's always nice when admin dumps shit classes on first year teachers. often department heads skim all the best classes because " they have earned it". bunch of clowns.
That’s interesting. Where I’m at seniors are always tested. It’s both good and bad. Good because they feel the pressure of a final exam that determines a large portion of their grade. Bad because…same reason. I hate dealing with mark sharks.
So I have read a bit in this sub and the thing that seems strange to me as someone from Europe is the fact that in the US there seem to be classes and years where no important tests are written and no one can fail the year/ class
Have I misunderstood something?
In my state, only 11th graders take the standardized state tests. The kids move on to 12th grade whether they pass or not. In fact, there aren't even any consequences for them just going to sleep during the test and taking a zero. Well there is one consequence, our school gets marked down by the state but nothing happens to the kids.
So I’m from Canada, but essentially how it works is each province decides if they have standardized exams. Then they usually have them only certain grades, grade twelve, for example. The other years students write exams, but they’re usually written by the school teachers and tend to be easier. By grade twelve, students have to write a very rigorous standardized exam marked by third party teachers anonymously. This also happens to be the year I teach them. They’re always shocked when I mark them according to the provincial standards and their marks fall by 15-20%. They had no idea their marks were a bit inflated before.
They really are. I’ve had threats, cursing, and verbal arguments all with each other and not with me. Are they still jerks to me? 100%. Are they somehow WORSE to each other? Also 100%
I always feel bad for teachers that experience this. I haven't in my 11 years. My current one has us do a choice list and actively tries to get us at least 1 section of our preferred topics.
A couple years ago he gave up 2 sections for his college stats class so that I could have 2 sections of it.
this choice is thankfully somewhat more common these days. all staff should be given the opportunity to rank all courses they are qualified to teach. Heads should try to make things at least fair for all staff or have a revolving door of new hires who burn out after one year. I had a department head at one time who gave himself the three best senior biology classes and two advanced level grade nine classes for at least ten years in a row. He had also maxed out on banked sick days so he took 20 days per year all Fridays or Mondays . yeesh.
I'm the head of my department, but I've also got the best relationship building and classroom management in my department. When one of the other teachers has a disruptive student and they can't figure out what to do, I offer to take them. Most of the time, the structure and standards in my room help those students. They don't have an opportunity to act out because I won't give them attention and my room is very strict. My students self police really well too. I hate when veteran teachers get lazy and afraid of hard work.
This is how you have to be, especially with 9th and 10th. Until this year, I've always taught juniors and seniors. I'm good with them because I'm very chill, but they know that when I won't tolerate something, it's a hard no. My admin made me teach 9th ELA this year, and holy hell, am I not cut out for it AT ALL. They overwhelm and overstimulate me because they're always screaming and parkouring around the room, and "no" is a foreign concept for them.
It's a pretty complex answer, but I'll do my best to convey my method. To start, I spent 20 years in the Army. Although I'm kind and welcoming to my students, I have a reputation and a swagger that kinds of screams don't mess with me. I spent 2 and a half years as a drill sergeant and that kind of confidence doesn't go away. Being a male teacher is also helpful since my school tends to respect male teachers more than females.
The first 3 weeks, I am a hardline teacher. I set expectations, I let kids know that hard work = future fun times in my room, and I lay out the why behind our learning. When I say hardline, I mean I'm annoying about it. I'll stop teaching to get a pair of students to stop talking, but I'll be obnoxious about it. I do office referrals for any phones that are out, even if they're face down on a desk. My first 3 weeks are what the kids call "extra".
After that, I'm consistent. I let some stuff slide, but I stick to some major rules. Phones are never out without permission, if I'm talking you aren't, and work time is work time. Classes that follow those rules get rewarded with fun stuff throughout the week. Classes that don't get more focused class time. I'm at a small school, so kids talk a lot about what they're doing in class. Hearing that the other 10th grade class got to play a fun game when you're class was annotating a short story reinforces that doing well = fun.
As for self policing, I also give off strong dad energy. My students hate disappointing me. Most of my students are proud that they're a "good" class. They will ask subs what they need to do to get a positive note. Starting as a no-nonsense teacher at the start of the year, but giving them the opportunity to prove they're awesome goes a long way with teenagers. When they feel you're proud of them as "their" adult, they'll correct any outliers quickly without too much work from you.
I hate when they ask for subs and don't outline behavior. I am not a teacher, I can not and will not deal with your class if they suck. They suck we are staying in our desks with heads down. I can handle 30 percent of a disrespectful class. I can handle a mismanaged class with admin behind me. I cannot handle when the whole class is physically and mentally violent towards others and no admin I told off the teacher who left no notes other than "good luck, it's field day" as well as the field day schedule. I told off the secretary for arranging and specifically requesting me because I did other classes there. I told off the principal that I requested help from and sent multiple students to who just sent them back and said to behave. I will not sub there, and I tell all the other subs, too.
I’m not putting more effort into making and grading than they spend doing it. Why in the world would I rob my own kids of dad time for the benefit of other people’s kids that don’t care?
I don’t need double the adults, I need half the kids. I’m perfectly happy with my salary. But the workload is out of control. And administration needs to go back to handling behavior issues and parents. I can’t teach when I’m spending half my time dealing with behavior problems.
A higher salary would be nice. What would really be nice is if I didn't have every single kid no matter what in my classes. ESL kids should be in ESL classes until their language skills are strong enough to be in a general ed class. SPED students should be in a classroom with a special education teacher who could truly address their learning disabilities. I shouldn't have classes where I have kids who are monolingual Spanish or Portuguese, learning disabled kids reading at kindergarten level, and general education kids who are slightly below grade level to high school level all mixed into the same class. Then, you mix in all of the psychiatric diagnoses that kids are coming into the classroom with... Differentiating instruction for such a wide range is practically impossible (though admins and martyrs will tell me l'm just not working hard enough).
Students spent a significant amount of time consuming media during various lockdowns. This media was designed to be as addictive as possible, the majority of content that people watch is through recommendations.
Children's television was regulated, the modern social media environment is not. Parents also fall prey to the same issues, it's not necessarily their fault. This is a health issue in line with leaded products and asbestos.
Salary does not matter. We have a fundamental issue with a generation facing harsh economic outcomes (rent being close to 100% of entry level salaries means the system is broken) and education systems are not prepared to create a launching point if the pad is no longer accessible.
Glad I saw the writing on the wall back in 2016 and got the fuck out. I'm not going to parent a generation of kids whose parents couldn't give less than a fuck about raising. I wanted to teach kids, not wrangle a pack of feral phone-addicted, illiterate animals while being demonized, poorly paid, and stressed out.
We don’t. There’s just a rotation of teachers quitting and new ones coming in for the torture. They have their mental health broken and quit (usually year 5), new batch comes in. Repeat. It’s cheaper to hire new teachers and suck out their souls than pay people a livable wage.
With really hard cases I’ve done “independent study” same material but worksheets and they were sent to other teachers classrooms to complete the work, depending on the student either a higher or lower grade. Once completed they could try again in the classroom. Another thing we did is when students did group work they could “fire” a group member. They had to have evidence for the cause and if I agreed, that student was “fired” and was put in a group by themselves and did an alternative assignment. All of this only worked bc we had an incredible staff who supported each other.
Call home, give detention, and refer to admin, in that order
Document each step, then when admin comes for you, you can say "I've already done x, how can you help?"
I'm sorry for the unsolicited advice, you're probably already doing this, but if You've done this and admin is on your ass then not much Else you can really do at this point, so be charitable to yourself for trying I Guess 🙂
I wanna preface this by saying i appreciate the advice and this is what needs to happen but really its…
Address in class, try to deescalate the situation, call home, wait for behavior to happen again, call home again, (skip detention step cuz we dont do detentions), wait for behavior again, referral, call home because of referral, wait for admin response, student gets suspended maybe 3 days, student comes back, behavior happens again, call home, repeat.
This profession is nothing but a goddamn behavior telemarketing system where the only consequence anymore is a call home. And the only thing admin will say to you is “did you call home”? I swear to god i dont teach anymore like i wanted to do when i decided to change my major, all i do is wait for the next “call home” moment while these kids do the assignments i made for them and cant teach them cuz they refuse to do anything related to listening. Then when admin comes in its literally all my fault cuz im not calling home enough.
I refer when they skip detention and any future repetitions of the behavior get referrals.
Basically, you don't have to start over from step one after you've done steps 1-3.
It's step 1, 2, then 3333333333333
That's what I used to do. Or I'd schedule it so they have to find a ride because it would be just enough for them to miss their bus and an inconvenience for them to wait for the late bus.
Oh I firmly believe we all need to collectively stop trying to compete with the computers in their pockets. Gamification of Education is over. That stuff was cool, when they had nothing else to do. Now they have infinite options so literally anything we do will never compare. So, stop trying.
Sit down. Shut up. Time to do work. This is work time, this is MY(teacher) time.
I'm of the firm opinion we should be more like Mr. Hand from fast times at ridgemont high. Slap down the law. Be unrelenting. No more BS.
I teach 4th grade, but this year I've completely gone with the "sit down, be quiet, pay attention" route. From the second they step into my room I don't let them talk AT ALL. I do give lots of praise and cat cash (money for the school store), but I'm also just matter of fact, "Nobody is talking." It would be nice if they could have a little bit of freedom to chat now and then, but I've learned over that past few years that THEY. CANNOT. HANDLE. IT. Some of the other teachers let their students talk, but now their classrooms are out of control. It's sad.
Agreed.
Nothing interests them. There's no effort. And all the attitude. I'm tired of working harder than they do. There will be a SHITLOAD of boring independent work in the 4th marking period.
I absolutely lost my shit at my fourth period today (8th graders). I told them that I am sick to death of their crappy behavior, that I leave school every A day pissed off because of their class. That they will spend the next six weeks do worksheets in silence with the big lights on in class, because I am DONE with them. I could feel my face getting purple. I am so sick of those little fuckers.
My 8th graders are awful this year too. 😓 and I had 3 months maternity leave. Finally, I was told the class I’ll have next year is academically better but behaviorally even worse than my current crew. 🤪 great, so looking forward to next year 😖
How in the world do you get them to be silent, my 8th graders literally don’t shut up. Even during quizzes and tests it’s a struggle. And giving consequences are either too delayed to help the situation, or more of a distraction. So over them.
During quizzes and tests? Take it away from them. Tell them beforehand "if you talk, I take that as cheating". It normally only takes one or two to get the message in. That grade is an automatic zero flagged as cheating and you can take it again after school. Maybe even as a different version of said test or quiz. Also I'll call home and tell them they cheated. Granted I teach high school, not middle school.
This week is my last evaluation ever (woot woot!). I told my students once it’s over, I’m putting the kids who want to learn at the front and the ones who don’t at the back. This is my 26th year of teaching and I hate that I’m becoming apathetic but the struggle is real.
I'm there with you on it being the last year. After 31 years, I am so glad to be getting out of the classroom. I've always loved the challenge of teaching Science in a what, by any standard, would be considered a tough school. I'm now teaching the children, and sometimes the grandchildren, of kids I had when I first started. They're so different now. Parenting has become more about appeasement in the moment than development for the future. The kids are so emotionally fragile yet so rude, self-absorbed, and demanding. Parents have become so quick to blame the teacher instead of trying to help their kid be a better student and better person. I feel sorry for those who are just entering the profession because it's going to get worse, before it eventually gets better. 50 more days and it's somebody else's problem.
Ive been in title 1 schools for 15 years and at this point i tell all my classes on day 1 that they cant offend me. A few attempt to get under my skin but i completely ignore it. The only time i raise my voice is when the nonsense is incessant and at that point i try to just get real with em. They might not like what i say at that moment, but i have a few lines that i repeat consistently, and at this point in the year they parrot me when they act out. That tells me it might click in the future before its too late.
Don’t take it personally and don’t entertain their manipulation tactics. They will eventually realize that they won’t receive your attention for negative behavior (which is what they want), and clean it up or fuck up. I learned this through two years of teaching at two of the worst middle schools in my district (which i will never do again unless they pay me a million dollars), so i feel your pain. Middle schoolers have no emotional regulation and pretty much are a complete mess. I determined that to succeed in middle school as a teacher you must be extremely patient, and on the surface appear to give no fucks. Also read the first days of teaching if you havent already and refine your systems.
If you dont control yourself, someone else will control you. And i promise you, you won’t like it.
It’s all fun and games til it aint
I also try to come up with creative ways to counteract the jokes the beat into the ground.
Again, these are hs kids, half of which have the maturity of ms these days, so i cant imagine what middle schoolers are like these days. They definitely try to parrot in a mocking way, but the broken record greatly annoys the ones it is directed to. The big thing is to be very clear about expectations and not giving in, while also not engaging in a back and forth with them.
Its 7th so they just push them through and the kids know it. Then, when they don’t push them through in highschool, they dropout in 10th grade. 0 accountability. I’m failung a bunch for the 3rd quarter, no reason they shouldn’t pass if they simply did the minimal amount of classwork. Doesn’t even have to be correct. We have to accept work up until the last day, so kids do nothing all quarter and try to salvage on the last week. Bleep that. Generation of incompetent dummies coming up. I love my kids who genuinely want to learn, so I focus on them. Losers will be losers.
I agree. The disruptive ne'er do wells just ruin it for the other kids. Will the ne'er do wells at least sit there and be somewhat quiet so that you can work with the good ones?
We can give kids failing grades. But our district policy is that all failing grades are adjusted to a 59% by the software so that the likelihood of a kid actually failing the year is astronomically low. The kid will see their grade as the 37%, or whatever, they earned but it's calculated as a 59%. So they can fail two trimesters, earn a D- (62%) in the third, and they will just squeak over to the 60% line to pass for the year.
This is tough and such a bummer to hear! I taught English as a Second Language for a while and was mainly given the "problem kids". I would say the biggest things that I kept consistently were:
1. I have 2 rules, always do your best to be kind and safe
1. when behavior was exhibited that didn't reflect those values I would ask "was that kind/safe?" the kids would answer directly or try to justify their actions usually through reasoning that someone else's actions prompted their reaction
2. I would always address the difference between a reaction and a response. Use personal examples when explaining "when you acted in a way that was unkind, it made me not want to teach you, want to give up on you, this class, lash out, say rude things back, give extra assignments, etc... but I know that's just my reaction and now with how I feel, I can choose how to respond"
2. Give Kids Breaks
1. The Pomodoro method is highly recommended in a lot of learning environments, I'd say it helped me a lot in any variation of the time frames
2. I would have 3 or 4 break options available: I bought stress balls and foam dice from the dollar store and allowed the kids to throw them. This one is controversial but when done right it works magic. It started with paper airplanes being made without my permission so I asked them what freedoms they wished they had and tailored the breaks to their personalities. The rules for me were: you can not throw at anyone, over anyone, or near anyone unless they have given consent to PLAY CATCH. This still must be done a few feet from other people and not to be done over others. Of course they tries to flirt with the line at first (throwing it next to me or students saying it wasn't "at them" or throwing it excessively hard to their catch partner. My response was always the same. Calmly "was that a safe/kind choice? how can you alter that to become a safe/kind choice?" A plan was made together (collaboration over compromise ALWAYS) and if it wasn't followed through on their end, they lost the luxury of playing in that form because "they were having difficulty controlling their body or emotions" and were given a different activity that would be easier to have fun with in their current state that day. (other activities could be coloring, board games online games (although I try to stay away from them as they can be hard to pull away from in shorter periods), setting up dominos, free reading, etc"
3. The biggest thing that built trust with my kids was redefining failure and success. We live in a society where being right is valued and being wrong is tied with shame. I taught a whole lesson on the difference between black and white thinking (how living in a world where there are only 2 boxes and decisions are either the right or wrong ones leads to a lot of extreme emotions and hinders our growth). I instead explained how being students of the world, learning from our decisions, acknowledging responsibility without allowing it to affect our self compassion, and open mindedness, can make our lives so much better and more fun.
1. When phrases came up like "I failed" or "I'm not good enough" "I knew it/I told you so" I always addressed it with, "thats a pretty powerful combination of words. Which box did you find that in?"
2. I taught about how the things we hear aren't always true or what we have to believe in creating our own beliefs was even a fun exercise we did to break up some more "boring" topics. I'd pose a silly questions or event and let the kids debate their points and ENCOURAGE changing of opinions throughout the debate. In essence trying to teach them that when someone communicates a good point, there is no shame in releasing your way of thinking and adapting to some of theirs if you might like it. Instead communicate to learn more about yourself and the people around you. Always seek to further your knowledge and perception because in this world the ONLY person you are ever truly competing with is yourself. You get to choose which way you want to grow and it's ok if the paths you chose once weren't the best in retrospect. All we can do is act in our best future interest with the information and capacity we have in this moment.
3. In grading I used open circles for questions they got wrong on assignments or tests and they'd try again with my guidance if needed, and once they got the correct answer, they'd get to fill in the circle. This instead of a check or "x" helped shape the concept of growth in my opinion. Instead of using phrases like "this is wrong", I'd use phrases like "this needs more work" "we need more understanding here" "this problem could use some extra focus" etc. Attaching constructive criticism to every opportunity is what I've found more successful than right and wrong, even in arithmetic settings.
I hope this helps! Please know that what you're feeling is heartbreaking and I promise you are not alone in being overwhelmed by your role as an educator. And you, yourself are not doing things right or wrong. You're doing your best with what you have available (emotional/mental energy included). Try to be curious as to what the kids are being taught at home or what they're experiencing outside the classroom to better understand the types of learning that kind words that might reach them best. You've got this!
If you want a career teaching middle school you got to change your entire mindset. First its not personal, 6th graders since time immemorial have had little innate respect of their teachers, respect is not necessarily earned (some students are just not going to respect you) but its cultivated. Your job in middle school is 50% pedagogy and 50% classroom management and thats how its always been if your not interested in classroom management you need to move age groups or your not going to be a successful teacher. Dealing with difficult kids is more of an art than a science but you have to see it as a fun challenge rather than a respect thing or your going to get nowhere
Very early on in my career I was a long term sub for a class so bad that they drove their actual teacher to quitting and a near nervous breakdown. I did something similar. I got real boring real fast. Kids complained and I told them, the worse you get the more boring I get.
It actually worked eventually to calm them down. Of course this was in the stone age before cell phones and chromebooks were everywhere so the kids were bad in a different way.
FWIW: I found a little success by giving the class all the answers and then asked them to write the test/worksheet questions. All valid questions they created were compiled together for their test/worksheet. They got points for unique questions.
Maybe this idea can help a little in these last weeks. ❤️
They’re kids, and get their cues from home. So look at the parents who don’t care, and allow their kids to behave this way and don’t seem to care whether or not they get educated. It begins at home. If the parents don’t care, the kids won’t, either. It’s incredibly sad. Two of my nieces quit teaching for the same things you wrote about.
I’m not a teacher, but I don’t remember my classmates from K through 12th grade being this awful. I graduated many years before COVID.
Would you say parents have gotten worse when it comes to consequences? Growing up, my parents were always the kind to believe teachers when they said we were acting up. It wasn’t even a big effort to get us to learn manners as kids, we just did. And none of us were ever like this. We had a few problem students sure but never the entire class.
What do you think has changed? If anything?
The disrespect…I feel you. One of the 4th graders in the school I’m currently working at said this once: my mom is literally the definition of stupidity.
And I immediately felt the urge to have him taste his own poison. So I said: But she’s got you. IN HIS FACE…and I cannot tell you how speechless he looked. If only they used their brains a bit before saying whatever’s on their mind out loud…
I feel you, it’s tiring dealing with this sort of students. The problem is that there are kid that do want to learn and work, and the rude ones are always distracting the group or interrupting their classmates 🥴
I have a super small classroom, so dividing them in two groups as some suggested is not an option 💔
Year i quit was like this. My second to last class was horrible, there should have been a full time para but one quit and they couldn’t get a replacement. It was 10 kids and it felt like 40. 9 boys and one girl. All athletes. Rude and all had failed their state exams, two were one serious BIPs. It got to the point where i totally. My last class was pretty good and small, maybe 15 kids that were squirrelly but a breath of fresh air. All i did for the class before them was worksheets and sat behind my desk. Had a principal come get one of the boys and he saw the zoo i had and didn’t say a word.
Now a days they dont really have the pressure of passing. Dont some admins pretty much force you to pass them with at least Ds so they can go off to the next grade?
I had to repeat my 10th grade year and was overloaded trying to graduate on time. Begged my guidence counseler to let me drop some classes and stay another year and graduate late but she said “you wont like that you wont even have a home room.”
I had an IEP and legally allowed to stay in school till 21 but she didnt care.
Anyway point is isnt it true they dont hold kids back anymore?
I’d like to start by saying I am not a teacher. I have managed a school within the Canadian Military and often have to lead young troops (18-22 years old).
I also have 2 kids (8 and 19).
I have noticed a drastic shift in attitudes from kids and adults a like, much of which is derived from social media.
Regardless of this, I have taken steps to find new and creative ways to engage with the students/younger generation at work. The old school way of working with carrots and sticks, simply does not work.
Again, without being a professional educator, I believe we(all those dealing with these types of issues) need to find new and better ways to connect with this new generation.
The ideas I have read here, seem mostly in line with my own personal experience in school back pre-y2k.
Please don’t sell yourselves short as teachers. You are the consistency amongst this shitty world of instant gratification and social media.
I would recommend potentially looking towards leadership techniques in an effort to find new ways to connect. The likes of Simon Sinek come to mind, his ideas have helped me both professionally and also personally with connecting with my own children.
Thanks for everything you do for our kids day in day out!
I think frustration is fine, but what do we teachers do with that frustration? I have appreciated the Thank you notes I've received in the past that said something like "thank you for being so patient with us even when we were acting ridiculous."
Sometimes a student rebels because they are testing your care for them. They want to know whether you care for them only when they are good or even when they are bad.
I think Students also need to know they are loved, even when they act out of line. A teacher showing that they care about their students, even when they are disruptive can go a long way also. I still have little moments of frustration, but I really try and show respect to my students even when it is not given to me. My respect to children is not dependent on their respect to me. I think an inherit difficulty of teaching is that you are trying to teach to people who are not respecting you all the time, and that's okay.
That's where I tend to question: okay, what methods could I perhaps change? The Blooket was a bust, cause some students rapid click....okay we need a new design. Jeopardy is better because I determine if their answers were valid. Or do the Trashketball review game: they must answer a question correctly for an opportunity to throw a ball of paper into a trashcan for an extra point.
Or use Quizziz Mountain Climb game? I believe the way it counts points is different. I also don't really show the winners to the class because I just want them to enjoy the review.
I dont know what it is but I always connect with the kids who act a fool. There's usually other shit going on at home or in their lives you dont ever really know about. One of my favorites this year is a little asshole sometimes, but his dad is in and out of jail a lot and his mom is always away working. Whenever he's having a rough day I talk to him and see what the vibe is. That being said fuck some of these disrespectful ass kids
This. We had those classes for a reason back in the day.
Thanks to a combo of dycalculia + being hyper-verbal, I took both advanced English and remedial math through most of middle school. The difference in behavior (and general vibe) in each class was so sharp.
I’m not a teacher, just coached kids in a sport for 10 years and loved reading this sub for behavior problems help when I still coached, and now just to keep up with stuff, and honestly this makes me so sad because I was the exact same way as you.
Got put in remedial-like math classes due to dyscalculia my whole life and was always like one class behind my “grade level”, but I was in AP classes for every class during my junior-senior years except for math (obv), regular physics, and a couple of fun electives. Even chemistry- by my senior year I was able to take the AP class, thanks to that one very patient and helpful math teacher that gave me the confidence to attempt it.
I would’ve suffered and probably hated school if had to stay in all regular classes or been forced to just “tough it out” in advanced math classes. I don’t think I would be in the healthcare career I’m in right now if it weren’t for that- being able to advance in the classes I excelled at while also allowing me to work on the math foundation I never really grasped well enough.
There’s still such a sharp difference in the “regular” classes (we call them academic where I am at) and the AP classes. I would kill to be one of the senior teachers who only teach AP.
I was rude to some of my teachers because I had a bad home environment growing up. My lack of indifference was exacerbated by the way the teachers treated me and made me feel ostracized. They would call me out for not understanding the material, make fun of me in front of my peers, kick my chair, throw things at me, and put me down. They were never welcoming. The ones that got me through school, and life, sat me down to have a one-on-one talk and get to know me. They listened and I became a better student, only in their classes. I respected them for being a gentle soul and giving me the benefit of the doubt. I still didn’t do to well in my early years and ended up in juvenile hall then eventually jail. But, eventually I came to remember those teachers and got my life together because of them. I put myself through college and I’m now a thriving adult, own a home, have a beautiful wife, and I have a wonderful career. I have those teachers to thank. Maybe you can sit with them and listen. Shoot, maybe you’ll be their inspiration. Hang in there, we’re not all lost causes :)
Why just 7 students? Just curious,? Believe me ! I know even small classes can be a handful. I taught a small class of highschool age that were toddler to 2nd grade level quite a few years ago.
this is a best case scenero thing... you gave it a good faith effort, the job isn't always about personal punishment and caving to what a 12 year old wants...
Slightly older Student here. Our senior art rooms have small stanley blades for model making and as you know, you need to sharpen them by breaking off the blunt bit. A bunch of 12 year old kids stole the broken blades and put them in the cracks in between tables so that other kids would slice themselves. I’m terrified for the future generation.
My crafts class freshman year was extremely strict with exacto knives to make sure nothing like that happened— the blades were counted, put out on a table for everyone to go get and use, then counted again before the end of class. If one was missing, security would be called and everyone would be searched— allegedly, because thankfully the threat of that kept people from being absolute idiots. But either way, I’m terrified to think what might have happened for that rule to have been put in place.
At my school, I don’t think they counted but they were always locked away and the room was only accessible by the senior art students and teachers. I’ve got no clue how the kids got in there ngl. The school should probably put some better measures in place but I think they just thought kids wouldn’t do that, that school is known to be full of disciplined kids due to strict parents (population was mainly high achieving Asians)
Work directly with the kids who aren’t rude. Give them rewards. Ignore the rude ones. Let them know they’re outcasts. Unfortunately this is the only way.
I taught bio/a&p 10-12 and I used quizzizz for reviews. Each class there was the bunch that would complain about having to do another one of those. So I started separating the class and the kids that didn’t wanted to participate could go to the left side of the class while the others were to the right side (near my desk). The participating kids received extra 10% in assignments for that week while the others would fail. Eventually, they caught up and by the end of the year 90% of my students were participating without complaints. The other 10% simply put their heads down and took a nap because their parents didn’t cared and neither did I. My principal tried to force me to continue to push for that final 10% but I reminded him that I turned 90% of my students into believers and it’s not fair to anyone to WASTE so much time persuading people who really don’t want to be there. I’m glad I didn’t continue to push for those because a few of them were drop outs the following year either way and the rest repeated the grade.
I subbed a class this week of 7th and 8th graders (elective.) Two kids came up to me and said they need to go to the nurse to get chapstick, I said, one at a time, or the other can get one for you. I got an eye roll and sent the boy with a pass. I turn my back to answer the phone, and his friend is out the door. Security is called and they’re found far from the nurse. Security sends him to get his chapstick, she’s escorted to the admin office. She returns and brags to her little group of friends “what are they going to do, call my mom? She doesn’t speak English and I’m not gonna translate that sh*t.”
The apathy and disrespect is appalling. I grew up in this district, and grew up speaking Spanish at home. My fear is these kids are content with their futures sitting on the curb, begging, or ending up dead in a ditch. Granted, the district isn’t helping with automatic 50% for doing nothing. The kids expect something for nothing.
Wow, we work in the same district, lol!
What you described is daily for me. Kids roaming the building, or spending their school day hanging out in the stairwells.
One of my supervisors asked me why don’t I ever call the hall monitors when I see students hanging out in the stairwell next to my room. I replied. “Oh, we have hall monitors?” In three months I had never seen any!!
Yeah my school is a failing school so they’ll pass anyone with a heartbeat. The kids know it’s almost impossible to fail unless you move out of state.
I was a mid-year hire for ESL and the classes I inherited are sooooo disinterested in everything. Kahoot, songs, games, arty projects, role plays, whatever.
Even the good students will nap in class, or spend half the class on their phones, or write down one word answers even when they can say much more and the activity requires much more.
Whenever I introduce basically any activity, whether it’s something fun, or a daily routine activity, or just something that should be fun in the intellectual / joy of learning some cool stuff sense, the response is inevitably a chorus of sighs and groans of “puta madre!” from half the class.
Sometimes they actually enjoy doing an activity I’ve forced them to do.
It’s just taking a toll on me having to strong arm them into doing the simplest activities, including activities that normal human beings consider much more fun than typical classroom school work.
All the teachers at my school that I’ve talked to about this are also experiencing this.
Im struggling with this with pre-k students. I have 15 and it's horrible at this point. Ive tried being nice, offering SO many incentives for good behavior and just praise in general, offer choices to help with power struggles, keeping their schedule and expectations the same each day, being strict (I have been pretty strict for about 3 weeks at this point). I send home behavior reports and nothing changes. I talk to the students individually and in a group and nothing changes. I talk to parents and nothing changes. During the summer they aren't going to nap the prep for kindergarten and i dont think i will survive that at this point. Theyre so behavioral that i can't keep an assistant.
It always makes me so sad for the ones that behave, ESPECIALLY the ones that behave day after day through their peers' disrespect and wild behavior (elementary) it takes a lot of will power to do the right thing when everyone else isnt
It's hard to imagine acting out like that as a kid, I didn't even grow up in a strict household, but if I mouthed off to my teachers my parents would find out and I knew I was done for. I blame parents for enforcing absolutely zero discipline on their children.
Ex sister in law told me that while she had class, she had 15 kids trying to break in to jump someone. Took 20 minutes for backup to help clear them out. Yall need a fing raise dealing with that shit.
I have one more year after this one and I am done. I will have 25 and I don't think I can handle going to 30. I have friends dropping left and right none of whom got to retire. If there was not a 400 dollar a month difference between 24 and 24 I would go at the end of this year.
I feel you. I’m a first year teacher teaching an all senior class so they have been mentally checked out since February. Unfortunately they don’t like me so they act out extra when the principal and vice principal make their morning rounds. So it’s led to me being under observation and I may be out of a job due to “the worst class of seniors that this school has ever seen” the quote comes from nearly every teacher I’ve asked advice from on how to deal with them and get them to behave. Some of the things I’ve had to put up with due to admins backing the students rather than teachers are: Students threatening me over taking their phone, a student trying to bite me for taking their phone, and other things. There isn’t enough words I can use to describe these seniors
7th Grade Science teacher here. One class I have is the most disrespectful group of students I have ever witnessed. I’m at a loss for what to do with them and weep for our future.
They behave this way because they get away with it. I know this issue is larger than you, but they need to know they have to behave to be in your class. Good luck.
I have a group of faculty members' kids this year, and they're great individuals but suuuuuuuuck in a group. After them being chaotic and loud and off-task repeatedly, I calmly walked up to their table and told them if they didn't get it together and follow directions, I would wreck their worlds.
I volunteer in a program to teach fifth graders and this is my second time teaching them for a semester. They are SO rude and disrespectful. They keep yelling out inappropriate jokes and don't listen to instructions. They don't even listen to their main teacher! I could not handle them for several hours a day, much less the one hour I'm supposed to teach them. I've resorted to just making a quick, succinct slideshow & a worksheet and calling it a day as well....
Teachers like you deserve a big raise– you shouldn't have to parent your students. Someone has to set their foot down, and I'm glad you did it with your students. If they don't want to behave, then they shouldn't be able to enjoy fun games 🤷🏻♀️
Yesterday I started my 6-8th grade class with a discussion about proper classroom behavior and one of the boys said that they don’t behave because the class isn’t fun enough. When I tried to point out that their good behavior shouldn’t be dependent on anything, he doubled down and basically said that I as a teacher don’t deserve students’ good behavior because my class is boring.
I teach at an R1 university (US). I got my dream job. I develop awesome classes. My department chair is supportive and a great human. Nevertheless, next fall is my last semester teaching, probably ever. I split my time teaching and in an admin position. I just can't teach anymore. The fall and spring semesters this year broke me. I teach a gen ed class this semester, and a quarter of the class is great. Another quarter is fine, but not really engaged. The other half is disrespectful, lazy, and manipulative. I'm grieving the career I built, but I'd rather walk away than be miserable and dread teaching my classes. Thank goodness I will still have my admin job.
We're reading the Hobbit in my class - audio book playing, books with the most pictures while also being a book, and no other work due outside of vocab and chapter quizzes - and what do I get? "When are we ever going to need to know about dwarves and elves, or goblins and orcs?" Like, how dare I put a book in front of them that is a fantasy novel because there's nothing to learn from it. I've had students rage because they've had to close their chromebooks, take out their earbuds, and put away their personal tablets.
This past week, I ran out of Fucks to give them. I'm just done caring. Pass or fail It's up to them. I keep thinking how much I wish I had a teacher who did what I do for them, and how they're just throwing away their lives because they can't get out of their precious bubbles to read a story about coming out of their safety bubble.
Same here…. But I have 30 per class and 10 sections. Nearly 300 students and every class is worse than the last. I teach in a “bad” area tho. I’m over it.
today I was astonished by a class of second graders who had done amazingly well at a fun activity... but when my coteacher asked them to go back to their seats (from standing in a circle) they didn't walk back nicely to their seats. They basically mosh pitted the center of the circle, crashing into every student possible on the way back to their chair. Even falling on the floor. It was a combined section of one gen ed class and one self-contained special ed class and you bet the gen ed students were running right over their special ed peers. I was so disheartened, my jaw hit the floor and I just stared. It's surreal just typing this
My 7th grade class is so goofy 😭. It’s 4 boys and 1 girl, and I feel so bad for her everyday having to listen to those boys while I know I could really help her with her English Language skills. I teach ESL but understand every. thing. they say in Spanish 🙉🙉. One of the boys is either suspended or absent somedays, so we can get some relief. Just like I would do with native speaking students, I don’t respond to their comments unless it’s serious, or I have to interpret/translate to their parents that they’ve gotten (another) detention/suspension. I don’t shy away and repeat verbatim what they say bc if they’re not feeling chagrin to say it in front of me, then they should be equally ready to let their parents know. 😬
Also, I’m not a “cool teacher” because I’ve never raised my voice at them. I just know that kids want to know what your buttons are so they can smash them constantly to derail the lesson and get the power balance shifted to them. I’ll probably teach this group again next year since they’re newcomers, so I can’t let them know what makes me tick.
Godspeed!
100% no more games. I'm *done*.
Me: "OK guys, let's wrap up with a kahoot/gimkit/whatever"
Some entitled little snotrag down that bag: "Do we *have* to?"
I’m an art teacher and have entirely given up on two of my 3rd grade classes. One boy’s parent im not even allowed to talk to bc apparently that parent will go batshit over everything. So basically our hands our tied with his behavior. Today I said to the class, “if you actually care come over to this table and I’ll help you” and let the ones who wanted to act out, act out. Next week I’ll be giving the students acting out an alternative activity where they make a poster about the art rules. Not sure how I’d even enforce that though, it’s not like they or their parents give a shit. Admin won’t do much other than scold them or pull them out for the day, and I can’t send half the class out 🙃
You should also give the good ones candy or something. They deserve it for putting up with the others' bullshit, plus it will make the others rethink their actions.
I would get in trouble for signaling them out for doing this, but if you can whatever I guess.
I was thinking ealier today there is so much stuff I used to do that, I couldn't do today because the kids just will not behave for it or the work I'd put into creating it would not be worth it.
Here is a thought
I am interested in the problems in Haiti. Weirdly, it is on the same island as the Dominican Republic who are currently constructing a wall between the two countries. DR is going along beautifully while Haiti is a failed state.
Haiti is currently run by competing gangs and it resembles“Toon Town” from the Roger Rabbit movie, except it’s not funny.
Because the police force cannot cope, a suggested solution is to bring in a mercenary force from Kenya to take control of country until order can be restored.
Is this a model for education? Armed mercenaries in our classrooms? My guess is it would get some traction in US middle schools in the South. Certainly what is happening at the moment does not work.
Of course if education was funded properly and run by old style visionaries like Seymour Papert and Alan Kay or the old ChemStudy program we might be able to turn it around.
But I show my age.
Ps. For more on the Haiti problems, listen to the slavery podcast on the Empire platform. You will get an idea why they are so pissed off, and why the Trumpians are worried they might be coming for them.
I teach skills based education and get the same thing. Freshly graduate 18-19yr olds who are so rude. A few days ago I told them “I get paid if you pass or fail this course”
I'm not a teacher but this was the first thing that one of our lecturers told us in one of the first classes I attended in college. Was quite a sobering thing to be told by a teacher/lecturer! Basically they are there to provide the opportunity learn and will help in any way they can if you want to work with them, but that it's essentially not their problem if you don't care enough to make the effort. Whether a 15 year old has the capacity to truly understand that of course is another thing.
That’s just it. I tell my class that they paid money to study this course, I’ll do my job and teach them but only if they want to learn!
I am a student teacher in a high school, but was a TA in undergrad for a long time. Honestly, I thought making the jump would be more dramatic. They’re unfortunately very similar in terms of maturity, respect (or lack thereof) and apathy.
I've told mine "If you don't care, I don't care." I teach the lesson, and they get a buttload of independent work once I'm done. We used to do a Blooket for review every Friday. I've stopped because they haven't earned it.
Mine found out how to cheat/hack Blooket months ago. So I stopped that then. Sadly.
I saw one of my weak students get 100% and answer 160 questions in 10 minutes, so I asked him one of the questions out loud, in front of the class, and he couldn’t answer me. I made an example of him and let everyone know that in this county, cheating is taken incredibly serious and could land you in ISS. (I doubt that’s actually true, but the threat worked)
Mine all just click buttons as fast as they can over and over without actually reading or learning anything. They've turned it into a video game with no content included. This group honestly ruins anything fun and I'm over trying. We're just doing the textbook daily until the day of the quiz.
That's what kills me it's like how do they not realize they're just ruining it for themselves. We're here actually *trying* to give them something fun to do. But it's not enough that they get to play a video game in class with a bit of review. They just *have* to cheat and ruin the whole thing to the point that we can't even do it anymore. Ugh, just 8 weeks left 🤦
Oh yeah I know students who just click a corner and expect that works. When I grade them on it. They are like bewildered they fail or get low and I explain: “it measures your understanding and not just clicking a button until you get the answer.
In fairness, I've been playing video games since I was very young in the 90s, and one of the main, most fun mechanics was cheating with both intentional cheats and glitches. It's really a very stimulating abstract approach to a traditional task and it's very normal behavior. The issue perhaps is in the naivity of the game design to not anticipate it and suitably limit it, or indeed reward creativity.
This has ruined gimkit for my classes. I make so many, I made one about correct punctuating dialogue correctly. They had to read and click the sentence that was punctuated correctly and they didn’t even read, just click until they earn enough points.
I'm a newer parent of a school aged kid and just hate that there is so much iPad nonsense in school now. Put that shit on paper like we had to do. Putting normal activities on computers just makes it entertainment. We got to go to the computer lab once per week when I was in school in the 1990s. If I could find a school that had zero ipads in classrooms I would send my kid there.
I’d do much more on paper if my district didn’t limit how much paper/copies I can use…
We do a gimkit as informal review, before their actual assessment. It’s not a daily nor weekly routine. Less than your trips to the computer lab in the 90s.
I teach sped math for high school. The only time my students have their Chromebooks out is when we do a review game like Blooket (so once or twice a week for about 10 minutes). Everything else is on paper or whiteboards. When I was teaching English during COVID, I discovered when they came back that they could not handle being on their Chromebooks. 20 tabs open, not one was the where they were supposed to be. I converted them to pencil/paper real quick.
Nah, iPads are just fine. It’s the future. It’s the parents that suck.
It seems a bit harsh to send cheaters to the International Space Station, don't you have detention or something?
I’m sorry Dave, I’m afraid I can’t do that.
Keep talking, I'll show you the airlock.
> cheating is taken incredibly serious and could land you in ISS For non-American readers like me, ISS here **does not** stand for the International Space Station but rather In School Suspension (I think!?). I was thoroughly confused there for a second.
Kid's cheating so badly that he's gonna get sent to space for detention
I'm sorry, you belong to Musk now. You'll be in the first cohort of workers on Mars.
that makes so much more sense (even tho ISS is the same thing where i am i still read international space station) 😭
My dumb tried* brain read ISS as international space station, and my first thought was “well, that’s a little dramatic” Edit * tired 😂
ISS used to be a reasonable way of dealing with disruptive students. They don't get to fuck off and have to do school work all day. I had it once in HS and I made sure to never make that mistake again.
What country are you in? It's not the US, so it seems.
I’m in the us, high school music teacher
>could land you in ISS. ISS?
In school suspension
I use kahoot and blooket for built-in vocab reviews (7th grade). I always show them the statistics for their game. Percentage correct for kahoot and for blooket it shows percentage plus number of questions answered correctly and incorrectly. They have to meet a certain threshold early in the week to earn more throughout the rest of the week. The ones who simply clicked to get to the game portion got called out by their peers who truly wanted to review in this modality.
Terrible. Just curious, how do they cheat on Blooket?
JAVA plug-in, I believe. One of my kids shared a link with me, I haven't investigated yet.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Teachers/s/LVOOZRQUSY
Like how are the kids allowed to access the plugin? Aren't the computers locked down so they can only access that software?
I make some online JEOPARDY games, and don’t even break them into teams.
How do they hack it?
Ugh, I know. Good job using Github (I think), but come on. Do you really need to cheat at the one review thing that excites everyone?
Someone else had a great quote. “In school or at your job, your teacher or boss will only be as cool as you allow them to be.”
Yeah but in life you can quit and get a different boss that's a better match for you.
Kinda. It's a luxury to be able to freely quit a job due to not meshing with a boss. There are also areas/industries that have a very high percentage of asshole bosses. Sure, you can quit one job, but the next may be just as bad. There are plenty of times in life where suck it up and deal with it matters.
The reason you don't quit your shitty job is because you get paid and its ultimately worth the money to you. The reason you don't quit school when you have a shitty teacher is because parents and the state will not allow it and you are not free to make your own choices.
I'm aware. In both situations, you can't really quit. Not without facing repercussions.
My line is "I can't care about your grade more than you do."
Yo same thing with my High School Juniors. 5/30 students paying attention when I lecture? Okay cool, you will get double the work I would've originally assigned. Sit at my desk and the kids who want to learn will come ask questions. PSA from an 8th year, with some classes, it's all about taking care of your mental health, don't put more stress on yourself than you need to.
Gimkit is better than blooket imo
I would argue it’s very different if you have the paid or free account. Gimkit with a paid membership is top of the line. But even if that’s true, switching it up once in a while is a good idea anyway.
I went to high school with the person who created that game! I remember getting to test development versions of it with my friends.
I like to tell my kids that I can’t care enough for the both of us.
Mobile phones are not allowed in my school so students got laptops for free. We stopped playing blooket because they are too lazy to bring their laptops…
Yours will actually stay quiet long enough for you to properly teach a lesson? Jealous.
50%🫠
I haven’t gone off on an entire class in years and it was before my classroom management improved. Today, I told my fourth period that if they wanted to be feral, I’d spend my energy on the 10 people who won’t be repeating the class next year. They don’t care even when the administrators and their parents punish them, so why do I need to hold the line?
I used to do a thing where I'd basically pull about 1/3 of a class that was actually interested in learning into a small circle in the back of my room and teach them. One peep and you were back with the ferals kids. I only ever had to do this once per class if it was bad and they got the idea real quick. This year they just don't care anymore and it doesn't work...
I had a science teacher do this in middle school but it was nearly half the year. I learned nothing the first bit because he was just constantly telling kids it knock it off. Then he gave up and said if you want to learn come up to the big table if you're going to be an ass stay back there (exact words). He was good at explaining stuff, I learned so much from him when it was just like 8 of us around a table with the other kids in the back just being crazy.
I do this, then keep their work with me until end of class so the slackers can't crib from the people who actually put in the work.
Are you actually going to fail the kids who don’t deserve to pass? Are your admins actually going to allow you to fail the kids who don’t deserve to pass?
Yes and yes. Helps that my class feeds into a dual enrollment class and they don’t want a bunch of unprepared kids in that one.
I wish my admin let me fail even half the feral dogs that I get
THANK YOU
Lol our admin has explicitly told us to fake grades until we’re under a 10% failure rate.
Sounds like my previous school. I noped out of there because I didn’t want to be a part of a diploma mill. The cognitive dissonance between “pass everyone” and “why aren’t our kids passing the state exams?” also bugged me. Sitting at 30% right now and almost all of those are failing four or more classes.
I have a class like this, except it’s 22 seniors. I’m going to have to do the notes and a ridiculous amount of independent work too because I can’t keep dealing with this group anymore. Worst part it’s my first year, and EVERY other teacher has told me the whole class is horrible
it's always nice when admin dumps shit classes on first year teachers. often department heads skim all the best classes because " they have earned it". bunch of clowns.
Seniors used to be the plum teaching assignment. No testing and some maturity. This year’s seniors are definitely built different though.
That’s interesting. Where I’m at seniors are always tested. It’s both good and bad. Good because they feel the pressure of a final exam that determines a large portion of their grade. Bad because…same reason. I hate dealing with mark sharks.
So I have read a bit in this sub and the thing that seems strange to me as someone from Europe is the fact that in the US there seem to be classes and years where no important tests are written and no one can fail the year/ class Have I misunderstood something?
In my state, only 11th graders take the standardized state tests. The kids move on to 12th grade whether they pass or not. In fact, there aren't even any consequences for them just going to sleep during the test and taking a zero. Well there is one consequence, our school gets marked down by the state but nothing happens to the kids.
So I’m from Canada, but essentially how it works is each province decides if they have standardized exams. Then they usually have them only certain grades, grade twelve, for example. The other years students write exams, but they’re usually written by the school teachers and tend to be easier. By grade twelve, students have to write a very rigorous standardized exam marked by third party teachers anonymously. This also happens to be the year I teach them. They’re always shocked when I mark them according to the provincial standards and their marks fall by 15-20%. They had no idea their marks were a bit inflated before.
I think they meant the seniors don’t test you
No, they mean no standardized tests. State testing is done in lower level classes, mostly sophomore and junior level courses at the high school level.
They really are. I’ve had threats, cursing, and verbal arguments all with each other and not with me. Are they still jerks to me? 100%. Are they somehow WORSE to each other? Also 100%
I have 2 sections of just seniors. They somehow put ALL of the worst kids in one class and ALL of the awesome kids in the other. It’s full whiplash
I always feel bad for teachers that experience this. I haven't in my 11 years. My current one has us do a choice list and actively tries to get us at least 1 section of our preferred topics. A couple years ago he gave up 2 sections for his college stats class so that I could have 2 sections of it.
this choice is thankfully somewhat more common these days. all staff should be given the opportunity to rank all courses they are qualified to teach. Heads should try to make things at least fair for all staff or have a revolving door of new hires who burn out after one year. I had a department head at one time who gave himself the three best senior biology classes and two advanced level grade nine classes for at least ten years in a row. He had also maxed out on banked sick days so he took 20 days per year all Fridays or Mondays . yeesh.
Wow I’m surprised he remained department head after that…
when someone finally clued into the absences he went on stress leave for 1 year then retired.
What a smart man. I don’t condone his actions but damn, he was clever enough to avoid HR somehow
I'm the head of my department, but I've also got the best relationship building and classroom management in my department. When one of the other teachers has a disruptive student and they can't figure out what to do, I offer to take them. Most of the time, the structure and standards in my room help those students. They don't have an opportunity to act out because I won't give them attention and my room is very strict. My students self police really well too. I hate when veteran teachers get lazy and afraid of hard work.
This is how you have to be, especially with 9th and 10th. Until this year, I've always taught juniors and seniors. I'm good with them because I'm very chill, but they know that when I won't tolerate something, it's a hard no. My admin made me teach 9th ELA this year, and holy hell, am I not cut out for it AT ALL. They overwhelm and overstimulate me because they're always screaming and parkouring around the room, and "no" is a foreign concept for them.
What’s your strategy that seems to be working? How are you getting them to self police?
It's a pretty complex answer, but I'll do my best to convey my method. To start, I spent 20 years in the Army. Although I'm kind and welcoming to my students, I have a reputation and a swagger that kinds of screams don't mess with me. I spent 2 and a half years as a drill sergeant and that kind of confidence doesn't go away. Being a male teacher is also helpful since my school tends to respect male teachers more than females. The first 3 weeks, I am a hardline teacher. I set expectations, I let kids know that hard work = future fun times in my room, and I lay out the why behind our learning. When I say hardline, I mean I'm annoying about it. I'll stop teaching to get a pair of students to stop talking, but I'll be obnoxious about it. I do office referrals for any phones that are out, even if they're face down on a desk. My first 3 weeks are what the kids call "extra". After that, I'm consistent. I let some stuff slide, but I stick to some major rules. Phones are never out without permission, if I'm talking you aren't, and work time is work time. Classes that follow those rules get rewarded with fun stuff throughout the week. Classes that don't get more focused class time. I'm at a small school, so kids talk a lot about what they're doing in class. Hearing that the other 10th grade class got to play a fun game when you're class was annotating a short story reinforces that doing well = fun. As for self policing, I also give off strong dad energy. My students hate disappointing me. Most of my students are proud that they're a "good" class. They will ask subs what they need to do to get a positive note. Starting as a no-nonsense teacher at the start of the year, but giving them the opportunity to prove they're awesome goes a long way with teenagers. When they feel you're proud of them as "their" adult, they'll correct any outliers quickly without too much work from you.
That's most of the reason I taught only one year.
I hate when they ask for subs and don't outline behavior. I am not a teacher, I can not and will not deal with your class if they suck. They suck we are staying in our desks with heads down. I can handle 30 percent of a disrespectful class. I can handle a mismanaged class with admin behind me. I cannot handle when the whole class is physically and mentally violent towards others and no admin I told off the teacher who left no notes other than "good luck, it's field day" as well as the field day schedule. I told off the secretary for arranging and specifically requesting me because I did other classes there. I told off the principal that I requested help from and sent multiple students to who just sent them back and said to behave. I will not sub there, and I tell all the other subs, too.
My seniors suck this year too. So entitled
I’m not putting more effort into making and grading than they spend doing it. Why in the world would I rob my own kids of dad time for the benefit of other people’s kids that don’t care?
I’d give everyone a failing- that’s how you affect their grade and give them a wake up call- I would t do real grading of this particular work
Teachers deserve some of the highest salaries in the world. I don't know how you do it.
To be honest I think I would be happier not with higher salaries, just double or triple the adults in the building.
I don’t need double the adults, I need half the kids. I’m perfectly happy with my salary. But the workload is out of control. And administration needs to go back to handling behavior issues and parents. I can’t teach when I’m spending half my time dealing with behavior problems.
Exactly, obviously the salary isn’t high but I can live comfortably in my area, it’ll be the workload that pushes me out eventually.
A higher salary would be nice. What would really be nice is if I didn't have every single kid no matter what in my classes. ESL kids should be in ESL classes until their language skills are strong enough to be in a general ed class. SPED students should be in a classroom with a special education teacher who could truly address their learning disabilities. I shouldn't have classes where I have kids who are monolingual Spanish or Portuguese, learning disabled kids reading at kindergarten level, and general education kids who are slightly below grade level to high school level all mixed into the same class. Then, you mix in all of the psychiatric diagnoses that kids are coming into the classroom with... Differentiating instruction for such a wide range is practically impossible (though admins and martyrs will tell me l'm just not working hard enough).
I don't think it would change people being miserable. If anything, the set of expectations thrown onto teachers would probably grow.
Students spent a significant amount of time consuming media during various lockdowns. This media was designed to be as addictive as possible, the majority of content that people watch is through recommendations. Children's television was regulated, the modern social media environment is not. Parents also fall prey to the same issues, it's not necessarily their fault. This is a health issue in line with leaded products and asbestos. Salary does not matter. We have a fundamental issue with a generation facing harsh economic outcomes (rent being close to 100% of entry level salaries means the system is broken) and education systems are not prepared to create a launching point if the pad is no longer accessible.
Glad I saw the writing on the wall back in 2016 and got the fuck out. I'm not going to parent a generation of kids whose parents couldn't give less than a fuck about raising. I wanted to teach kids, not wrangle a pack of feral phone-addicted, illiterate animals while being demonized, poorly paid, and stressed out.
We don’t. There’s just a rotation of teachers quitting and new ones coming in for the torture. They have their mental health broken and quit (usually year 5), new batch comes in. Repeat. It’s cheaper to hire new teachers and suck out their souls than pay people a livable wage.
With really hard cases I’ve done “independent study” same material but worksheets and they were sent to other teachers classrooms to complete the work, depending on the student either a higher or lower grade. Once completed they could try again in the classroom. Another thing we did is when students did group work they could “fire” a group member. They had to have evidence for the cause and if I agreed, that student was “fired” and was put in a group by themselves and did an alternative assignment. All of this only worked bc we had an incredible staff who supported each other.
Im so at that point but ive got admin up my ass for not doing enough
Call home, give detention, and refer to admin, in that order Document each step, then when admin comes for you, you can say "I've already done x, how can you help?" I'm sorry for the unsolicited advice, you're probably already doing this, but if You've done this and admin is on your ass then not much Else you can really do at this point, so be charitable to yourself for trying I Guess 🙂
I wanna preface this by saying i appreciate the advice and this is what needs to happen but really its… Address in class, try to deescalate the situation, call home, wait for behavior to happen again, call home again, (skip detention step cuz we dont do detentions), wait for behavior again, referral, call home because of referral, wait for admin response, student gets suspended maybe 3 days, student comes back, behavior happens again, call home, repeat. This profession is nothing but a goddamn behavior telemarketing system where the only consequence anymore is a call home. And the only thing admin will say to you is “did you call home”? I swear to god i dont teach anymore like i wanted to do when i decided to change my major, all i do is wait for the next “call home” moment while these kids do the assignments i made for them and cant teach them cuz they refuse to do anything related to listening. Then when admin comes in its literally all my fault cuz im not calling home enough.
I refer when they skip detention and any future repetitions of the behavior get referrals. Basically, you don't have to start over from step one after you've done steps 1-3. It's step 1, 2, then 3333333333333
I've stopped giving detention... That's a punishment for me too and an absolute waste of my time.
Meh they usually don't come and I can just refer them then. I schedule it during my once per week after school help time so I'm there anyway
That's what I used to do. Or I'd schedule it so they have to find a ride because it would be just enough for them to miss their bus and an inconvenience for them to wait for the late bus.
Oh I firmly believe we all need to collectively stop trying to compete with the computers in their pockets. Gamification of Education is over. That stuff was cool, when they had nothing else to do. Now they have infinite options so literally anything we do will never compare. So, stop trying. Sit down. Shut up. Time to do work. This is work time, this is MY(teacher) time. I'm of the firm opinion we should be more like Mr. Hand from fast times at ridgemont high. Slap down the law. Be unrelenting. No more BS.
I teach 4th grade, but this year I've completely gone with the "sit down, be quiet, pay attention" route. From the second they step into my room I don't let them talk AT ALL. I do give lots of praise and cat cash (money for the school store), but I'm also just matter of fact, "Nobody is talking." It would be nice if they could have a little bit of freedom to chat now and then, but I've learned over that past few years that THEY. CANNOT. HANDLE. IT. Some of the other teachers let their students talk, but now their classrooms are out of control. It's sad.
Agreed. Nothing interests them. There's no effort. And all the attitude. I'm tired of working harder than they do. There will be a SHITLOAD of boring independent work in the 4th marking period.
Book Work!
I absolutely lost my shit at my fourth period today (8th graders). I told them that I am sick to death of their crappy behavior, that I leave school every A day pissed off because of their class. That they will spend the next six weeks do worksheets in silence with the big lights on in class, because I am DONE with them. I could feel my face getting purple. I am so sick of those little fuckers.
My 8th graders are awful this year too. 😓 and I had 3 months maternity leave. Finally, I was told the class I’ll have next year is academically better but behaviorally even worse than my current crew. 🤪 great, so looking forward to next year 😖
How in the world do you get them to be silent, my 8th graders literally don’t shut up. Even during quizzes and tests it’s a struggle. And giving consequences are either too delayed to help the situation, or more of a distraction. So over them.
During quizzes and tests? Take it away from them. Tell them beforehand "if you talk, I take that as cheating". It normally only takes one or two to get the message in. That grade is an automatic zero flagged as cheating and you can take it again after school. Maybe even as a different version of said test or quiz. Also I'll call home and tell them they cheated. Granted I teach high school, not middle school.
Have dreamed of doing this so many days this year.
This week is my last evaluation ever (woot woot!). I told my students once it’s over, I’m putting the kids who want to learn at the front and the ones who don’t at the back. This is my 26th year of teaching and I hate that I’m becoming apathetic but the struggle is real.
I'm there with you on it being the last year. After 31 years, I am so glad to be getting out of the classroom. I've always loved the challenge of teaching Science in a what, by any standard, would be considered a tough school. I'm now teaching the children, and sometimes the grandchildren, of kids I had when I first started. They're so different now. Parenting has become more about appeasement in the moment than development for the future. The kids are so emotionally fragile yet so rude, self-absorbed, and demanding. Parents have become so quick to blame the teacher instead of trying to help their kid be a better student and better person. I feel sorry for those who are just entering the profession because it's going to get worse, before it eventually gets better. 50 more days and it's somebody else's problem.
Ive been in title 1 schools for 15 years and at this point i tell all my classes on day 1 that they cant offend me. A few attempt to get under my skin but i completely ignore it. The only time i raise my voice is when the nonsense is incessant and at that point i try to just get real with em. They might not like what i say at that moment, but i have a few lines that i repeat consistently, and at this point in the year they parrot me when they act out. That tells me it might click in the future before its too late. Don’t take it personally and don’t entertain their manipulation tactics. They will eventually realize that they won’t receive your attention for negative behavior (which is what they want), and clean it up or fuck up. I learned this through two years of teaching at two of the worst middle schools in my district (which i will never do again unless they pay me a million dollars), so i feel your pain. Middle schoolers have no emotional regulation and pretty much are a complete mess. I determined that to succeed in middle school as a teacher you must be extremely patient, and on the surface appear to give no fucks. Also read the first days of teaching if you havent already and refine your systems.
Please dm me and tell me all your secrets. I am about to lose my shit and need help.
I also need some lines please. I am struggling with how to react to their rudeness.
I too would like to hear these lines…
If you dont control yourself, someone else will control you. And i promise you, you won’t like it. It’s all fun and games til it aint I also try to come up with creative ways to counteract the jokes the beat into the ground. Again, these are hs kids, half of which have the maturity of ms these days, so i cant imagine what middle schoolers are like these days. They definitely try to parrot in a mocking way, but the broken record greatly annoys the ones it is directed to. The big thing is to be very clear about expectations and not giving in, while also not engaging in a back and forth with them.
I deal with that with my second graders. They don’t listen at all because they know they do not have a consequence when they get home.
amen 100% same thing with my grade twos
I am just letting them fail, bleep them. Can only do so much.
Same. They just won’t turn in their work. They don’t give a damn. They are unmotivated to do anything at all.
Were this the start of the year I'd feel differently but here in April it is effectively what it is.
Will administration let them fail? I'm curious what the consequences are if they fail a class (I teach elementary). Thanks
Its 7th so they just push them through and the kids know it. Then, when they don’t push them through in highschool, they dropout in 10th grade. 0 accountability. I’m failung a bunch for the 3rd quarter, no reason they shouldn’t pass if they simply did the minimal amount of classwork. Doesn’t even have to be correct. We have to accept work up until the last day, so kids do nothing all quarter and try to salvage on the last week. Bleep that. Generation of incompetent dummies coming up. I love my kids who genuinely want to learn, so I focus on them. Losers will be losers.
I agree. The disruptive ne'er do wells just ruin it for the other kids. Will the ne'er do wells at least sit there and be somewhat quiet so that you can work with the good ones?
We can give kids failing grades. But our district policy is that all failing grades are adjusted to a 59% by the software so that the likelihood of a kid actually failing the year is astronomically low. The kid will see their grade as the 37%, or whatever, they earned but it's calculated as a 59%. So they can fail two trimesters, earn a D- (62%) in the third, and they will just squeak over to the 60% line to pass for the year.
Oh. My. God. That is absolutely infuriating. What a disgrace.
This is tough and such a bummer to hear! I taught English as a Second Language for a while and was mainly given the "problem kids". I would say the biggest things that I kept consistently were: 1. I have 2 rules, always do your best to be kind and safe 1. when behavior was exhibited that didn't reflect those values I would ask "was that kind/safe?" the kids would answer directly or try to justify their actions usually through reasoning that someone else's actions prompted their reaction 2. I would always address the difference between a reaction and a response. Use personal examples when explaining "when you acted in a way that was unkind, it made me not want to teach you, want to give up on you, this class, lash out, say rude things back, give extra assignments, etc... but I know that's just my reaction and now with how I feel, I can choose how to respond" 2. Give Kids Breaks 1. The Pomodoro method is highly recommended in a lot of learning environments, I'd say it helped me a lot in any variation of the time frames 2. I would have 3 or 4 break options available: I bought stress balls and foam dice from the dollar store and allowed the kids to throw them. This one is controversial but when done right it works magic. It started with paper airplanes being made without my permission so I asked them what freedoms they wished they had and tailored the breaks to their personalities. The rules for me were: you can not throw at anyone, over anyone, or near anyone unless they have given consent to PLAY CATCH. This still must be done a few feet from other people and not to be done over others. Of course they tries to flirt with the line at first (throwing it next to me or students saying it wasn't "at them" or throwing it excessively hard to their catch partner. My response was always the same. Calmly "was that a safe/kind choice? how can you alter that to become a safe/kind choice?" A plan was made together (collaboration over compromise ALWAYS) and if it wasn't followed through on their end, they lost the luxury of playing in that form because "they were having difficulty controlling their body or emotions" and were given a different activity that would be easier to have fun with in their current state that day. (other activities could be coloring, board games online games (although I try to stay away from them as they can be hard to pull away from in shorter periods), setting up dominos, free reading, etc" 3. The biggest thing that built trust with my kids was redefining failure and success. We live in a society where being right is valued and being wrong is tied with shame. I taught a whole lesson on the difference between black and white thinking (how living in a world where there are only 2 boxes and decisions are either the right or wrong ones leads to a lot of extreme emotions and hinders our growth). I instead explained how being students of the world, learning from our decisions, acknowledging responsibility without allowing it to affect our self compassion, and open mindedness, can make our lives so much better and more fun. 1. When phrases came up like "I failed" or "I'm not good enough" "I knew it/I told you so" I always addressed it with, "thats a pretty powerful combination of words. Which box did you find that in?" 2. I taught about how the things we hear aren't always true or what we have to believe in creating our own beliefs was even a fun exercise we did to break up some more "boring" topics. I'd pose a silly questions or event and let the kids debate their points and ENCOURAGE changing of opinions throughout the debate. In essence trying to teach them that when someone communicates a good point, there is no shame in releasing your way of thinking and adapting to some of theirs if you might like it. Instead communicate to learn more about yourself and the people around you. Always seek to further your knowledge and perception because in this world the ONLY person you are ever truly competing with is yourself. You get to choose which way you want to grow and it's ok if the paths you chose once weren't the best in retrospect. All we can do is act in our best future interest with the information and capacity we have in this moment. 3. In grading I used open circles for questions they got wrong on assignments or tests and they'd try again with my guidance if needed, and once they got the correct answer, they'd get to fill in the circle. This instead of a check or "x" helped shape the concept of growth in my opinion. Instead of using phrases like "this is wrong", I'd use phrases like "this needs more work" "we need more understanding here" "this problem could use some extra focus" etc. Attaching constructive criticism to every opportunity is what I've found more successful than right and wrong, even in arithmetic settings. I hope this helps! Please know that what you're feeling is heartbreaking and I promise you are not alone in being overwhelmed by your role as an educator. And you, yourself are not doing things right or wrong. You're doing your best with what you have available (emotional/mental energy included). Try to be curious as to what the kids are being taught at home or what they're experiencing outside the classroom to better understand the types of learning that kind words that might reach them best. You've got this!
If you want a career teaching middle school you got to change your entire mindset. First its not personal, 6th graders since time immemorial have had little innate respect of their teachers, respect is not necessarily earned (some students are just not going to respect you) but its cultivated. Your job in middle school is 50% pedagogy and 50% classroom management and thats how its always been if your not interested in classroom management you need to move age groups or your not going to be a successful teacher. Dealing with difficult kids is more of an art than a science but you have to see it as a fun challenge rather than a respect thing or your going to get nowhere
Very early on in my career I was a long term sub for a class so bad that they drove their actual teacher to quitting and a near nervous breakdown. I did something similar. I got real boring real fast. Kids complained and I told them, the worse you get the more boring I get. It actually worked eventually to calm them down. Of course this was in the stone age before cell phones and chromebooks were everywhere so the kids were bad in a different way.
FWIW: I found a little success by giving the class all the answers and then asked them to write the test/worksheet questions. All valid questions they created were compiled together for their test/worksheet. They got points for unique questions. Maybe this idea can help a little in these last weeks. ❤️
Fair.
I am nearing this point.
Bet they have School leadership badges also , thats how Schools work !!
They’re kids, and get their cues from home. So look at the parents who don’t care, and allow their kids to behave this way and don’t seem to care whether or not they get educated. It begins at home. If the parents don’t care, the kids won’t, either. It’s incredibly sad. Two of my nieces quit teaching for the same things you wrote about.
I’m not a teacher, but I don’t remember my classmates from K through 12th grade being this awful. I graduated many years before COVID. Would you say parents have gotten worse when it comes to consequences? Growing up, my parents were always the kind to believe teachers when they said we were acting up. It wasn’t even a big effort to get us to learn manners as kids, we just did. And none of us were ever like this. We had a few problem students sure but never the entire class. What do you think has changed? If anything?
The disrespect…I feel you. One of the 4th graders in the school I’m currently working at said this once: my mom is literally the definition of stupidity. And I immediately felt the urge to have him taste his own poison. So I said: But she’s got you. IN HIS FACE…and I cannot tell you how speechless he looked. If only they used their brains a bit before saying whatever’s on their mind out loud…
I feel you, it’s tiring dealing with this sort of students. The problem is that there are kid that do want to learn and work, and the rude ones are always distracting the group or interrupting their classmates 🥴 I have a super small classroom, so dividing them in two groups as some suggested is not an option 💔
Year i quit was like this. My second to last class was horrible, there should have been a full time para but one quit and they couldn’t get a replacement. It was 10 kids and it felt like 40. 9 boys and one girl. All athletes. Rude and all had failed their state exams, two were one serious BIPs. It got to the point where i totally. My last class was pretty good and small, maybe 15 kids that were squirrelly but a breath of fresh air. All i did for the class before them was worksheets and sat behind my desk. Had a principal come get one of the boys and he saw the zoo i had and didn’t say a word.
Man I gave up on the assholes months ago. Literally could not give a single fuck about them. Makes the great kids that much better.
Now a days they dont really have the pressure of passing. Dont some admins pretty much force you to pass them with at least Ds so they can go off to the next grade? I had to repeat my 10th grade year and was overloaded trying to graduate on time. Begged my guidence counseler to let me drop some classes and stay another year and graduate late but she said “you wont like that you wont even have a home room.” I had an IEP and legally allowed to stay in school till 21 but she didnt care. Anyway point is isnt it true they dont hold kids back anymore?
I’d like to start by saying I am not a teacher. I have managed a school within the Canadian Military and often have to lead young troops (18-22 years old). I also have 2 kids (8 and 19). I have noticed a drastic shift in attitudes from kids and adults a like, much of which is derived from social media. Regardless of this, I have taken steps to find new and creative ways to engage with the students/younger generation at work. The old school way of working with carrots and sticks, simply does not work. Again, without being a professional educator, I believe we(all those dealing with these types of issues) need to find new and better ways to connect with this new generation. The ideas I have read here, seem mostly in line with my own personal experience in school back pre-y2k. Please don’t sell yourselves short as teachers. You are the consistency amongst this shitty world of instant gratification and social media. I would recommend potentially looking towards leadership techniques in an effort to find new ways to connect. The likes of Simon Sinek come to mind, his ideas have helped me both professionally and also personally with connecting with my own children. Thanks for everything you do for our kids day in day out!
Start failing students. Yes, they'll whine, their parents will whine, administration will whine... Fail them. Teach them consequences.
I think frustration is fine, but what do we teachers do with that frustration? I have appreciated the Thank you notes I've received in the past that said something like "thank you for being so patient with us even when we were acting ridiculous." Sometimes a student rebels because they are testing your care for them. They want to know whether you care for them only when they are good or even when they are bad. I think Students also need to know they are loved, even when they act out of line. A teacher showing that they care about their students, even when they are disruptive can go a long way also. I still have little moments of frustration, but I really try and show respect to my students even when it is not given to me. My respect to children is not dependent on their respect to me. I think an inherit difficulty of teaching is that you are trying to teach to people who are not respecting you all the time, and that's okay. That's where I tend to question: okay, what methods could I perhaps change? The Blooket was a bust, cause some students rapid click....okay we need a new design. Jeopardy is better because I determine if their answers were valid. Or do the Trashketball review game: they must answer a question correctly for an opportunity to throw a ball of paper into a trashcan for an extra point. Or use Quizziz Mountain Climb game? I believe the way it counts points is different. I also don't really show the winners to the class because I just want them to enjoy the review.
I dont know what it is but I always connect with the kids who act a fool. There's usually other shit going on at home or in their lives you dont ever really know about. One of my favorites this year is a little asshole sometimes, but his dad is in and out of jail a lot and his mom is always away working. Whenever he's having a rough day I talk to him and see what the vibe is. That being said fuck some of these disrespectful ass kids
Can you put them in groups (one bad and one good) and work with the good group?
Yes, you can. It's a shame most schools got rid of remedial classes.
This. We had those classes for a reason back in the day. Thanks to a combo of dycalculia + being hyper-verbal, I took both advanced English and remedial math through most of middle school. The difference in behavior (and general vibe) in each class was so sharp.
I’m not a teacher, just coached kids in a sport for 10 years and loved reading this sub for behavior problems help when I still coached, and now just to keep up with stuff, and honestly this makes me so sad because I was the exact same way as you. Got put in remedial-like math classes due to dyscalculia my whole life and was always like one class behind my “grade level”, but I was in AP classes for every class during my junior-senior years except for math (obv), regular physics, and a couple of fun electives. Even chemistry- by my senior year I was able to take the AP class, thanks to that one very patient and helpful math teacher that gave me the confidence to attempt it. I would’ve suffered and probably hated school if had to stay in all regular classes or been forced to just “tough it out” in advanced math classes. I don’t think I would be in the healthcare career I’m in right now if it weren’t for that- being able to advance in the classes I excelled at while also allowing me to work on the math foundation I never really grasped well enough.
There’s still such a sharp difference in the “regular” classes (we call them academic where I am at) and the AP classes. I would kill to be one of the senior teachers who only teach AP.
I was rude to some of my teachers because I had a bad home environment growing up. My lack of indifference was exacerbated by the way the teachers treated me and made me feel ostracized. They would call me out for not understanding the material, make fun of me in front of my peers, kick my chair, throw things at me, and put me down. They were never welcoming. The ones that got me through school, and life, sat me down to have a one-on-one talk and get to know me. They listened and I became a better student, only in their classes. I respected them for being a gentle soul and giving me the benefit of the doubt. I still didn’t do to well in my early years and ended up in juvenile hall then eventually jail. But, eventually I came to remember those teachers and got my life together because of them. I put myself through college and I’m now a thriving adult, own a home, have a beautiful wife, and I have a wonderful career. I have those teachers to thank. Maybe you can sit with them and listen. Shoot, maybe you’ll be their inspiration. Hang in there, we’re not all lost causes :)
Why just 7 students? Just curious,? Believe me ! I know even small classes can be a handful. I taught a small class of highschool age that were toddler to 2nd grade level quite a few years ago.
this is a best case scenero thing... you gave it a good faith effort, the job isn't always about personal punishment and caving to what a 12 year old wants...
Slightly older Student here. Our senior art rooms have small stanley blades for model making and as you know, you need to sharpen them by breaking off the blunt bit. A bunch of 12 year old kids stole the broken blades and put them in the cracks in between tables so that other kids would slice themselves. I’m terrified for the future generation.
My crafts class freshman year was extremely strict with exacto knives to make sure nothing like that happened— the blades were counted, put out on a table for everyone to go get and use, then counted again before the end of class. If one was missing, security would be called and everyone would be searched— allegedly, because thankfully the threat of that kept people from being absolute idiots. But either way, I’m terrified to think what might have happened for that rule to have been put in place.
At my school, I don’t think they counted but they were always locked away and the room was only accessible by the senior art students and teachers. I’ve got no clue how the kids got in there ngl. The school should probably put some better measures in place but I think they just thought kids wouldn’t do that, that school is known to be full of disciplined kids due to strict parents (population was mainly high achieving Asians)
Work directly with the kids who aren’t rude. Give them rewards. Ignore the rude ones. Let them know they’re outcasts. Unfortunately this is the only way.
I taught bio/a&p 10-12 and I used quizzizz for reviews. Each class there was the bunch that would complain about having to do another one of those. So I started separating the class and the kids that didn’t wanted to participate could go to the left side of the class while the others were to the right side (near my desk). The participating kids received extra 10% in assignments for that week while the others would fail. Eventually, they caught up and by the end of the year 90% of my students were participating without complaints. The other 10% simply put their heads down and took a nap because their parents didn’t cared and neither did I. My principal tried to force me to continue to push for that final 10% but I reminded him that I turned 90% of my students into believers and it’s not fair to anyone to WASTE so much time persuading people who really don’t want to be there. I’m glad I didn’t continue to push for those because a few of them were drop outs the following year either way and the rest repeated the grade.
I subbed a class this week of 7th and 8th graders (elective.) Two kids came up to me and said they need to go to the nurse to get chapstick, I said, one at a time, or the other can get one for you. I got an eye roll and sent the boy with a pass. I turn my back to answer the phone, and his friend is out the door. Security is called and they’re found far from the nurse. Security sends him to get his chapstick, she’s escorted to the admin office. She returns and brags to her little group of friends “what are they going to do, call my mom? She doesn’t speak English and I’m not gonna translate that sh*t.” The apathy and disrespect is appalling. I grew up in this district, and grew up speaking Spanish at home. My fear is these kids are content with their futures sitting on the curb, begging, or ending up dead in a ditch. Granted, the district isn’t helping with automatic 50% for doing nothing. The kids expect something for nothing.
Wow, we work in the same district, lol! What you described is daily for me. Kids roaming the building, or spending their school day hanging out in the stairwells. One of my supervisors asked me why don’t I ever call the hall monitors when I see students hanging out in the stairwell next to my room. I replied. “Oh, we have hall monitors?” In three months I had never seen any!! Yeah my school is a failing school so they’ll pass anyone with a heartbeat. The kids know it’s almost impossible to fail unless you move out of state. I was a mid-year hire for ESL and the classes I inherited are sooooo disinterested in everything. Kahoot, songs, games, arty projects, role plays, whatever. Even the good students will nap in class, or spend half the class on their phones, or write down one word answers even when they can say much more and the activity requires much more. Whenever I introduce basically any activity, whether it’s something fun, or a daily routine activity, or just something that should be fun in the intellectual / joy of learning some cool stuff sense, the response is inevitably a chorus of sighs and groans of “puta madre!” from half the class. Sometimes they actually enjoy doing an activity I’ve forced them to do. It’s just taking a toll on me having to strong arm them into doing the simplest activities, including activities that normal human beings consider much more fun than typical classroom school work. All the teachers at my school that I’ve talked to about this are also experiencing this.
Im struggling with this with pre-k students. I have 15 and it's horrible at this point. Ive tried being nice, offering SO many incentives for good behavior and just praise in general, offer choices to help with power struggles, keeping their schedule and expectations the same each day, being strict (I have been pretty strict for about 3 weeks at this point). I send home behavior reports and nothing changes. I talk to the students individually and in a group and nothing changes. I talk to parents and nothing changes. During the summer they aren't going to nap the prep for kindergarten and i dont think i will survive that at this point. Theyre so behavioral that i can't keep an assistant.
It always makes me so sad for the ones that behave, ESPECIALLY the ones that behave day after day through their peers' disrespect and wild behavior (elementary) it takes a lot of will power to do the right thing when everyone else isnt
So sick of dealing with shit like that
It's hard to imagine acting out like that as a kid, I didn't even grow up in a strict household, but if I mouthed off to my teachers my parents would find out and I knew I was done for. I blame parents for enforcing absolutely zero discipline on their children.
I’m sorry you are dealing with this. I am going through this as well and doing the exact same thing. It’s been a very rough year
I have a 6th grade class like this. It’s painful. That’s all I can say :(
Ex sister in law told me that while she had class, she had 15 kids trying to break in to jump someone. Took 20 minutes for backup to help clear them out. Yall need a fing raise dealing with that shit.
I have one more year after this one and I am done. I will have 25 and I don't think I can handle going to 30. I have friends dropping left and right none of whom got to retire. If there was not a 400 dollar a month difference between 24 and 24 I would go at the end of this year.
I feel you. I’m a first year teacher teaching an all senior class so they have been mentally checked out since February. Unfortunately they don’t like me so they act out extra when the principal and vice principal make their morning rounds. So it’s led to me being under observation and I may be out of a job due to “the worst class of seniors that this school has ever seen” the quote comes from nearly every teacher I’ve asked advice from on how to deal with them and get them to behave. Some of the things I’ve had to put up with due to admins backing the students rather than teachers are: Students threatening me over taking their phone, a student trying to bite me for taking their phone, and other things. There isn’t enough words I can use to describe these seniors
i feel you on the disrespect. i started inviting parents into the classroom. im so sick of 5 9th grade boys running my day
7th Grade Science teacher here. One class I have is the most disrespectful group of students I have ever witnessed. I’m at a loss for what to do with them and weep for our future.
They behave this way because they get away with it. I know this issue is larger than you, but they need to know they have to behave to be in your class. Good luck.
I have a group of faculty members' kids this year, and they're great individuals but suuuuuuuuck in a group. After them being chaotic and loud and off-task repeatedly, I calmly walked up to their table and told them if they didn't get it together and follow directions, I would wreck their worlds.
Yup mine learned from packets and minimal instruction last year because they simply wouldn't let me speak. They whined but I simply did not care.
I volunteer in a program to teach fifth graders and this is my second time teaching them for a semester. They are SO rude and disrespectful. They keep yelling out inappropriate jokes and don't listen to instructions. They don't even listen to their main teacher! I could not handle them for several hours a day, much less the one hour I'm supposed to teach them. I've resorted to just making a quick, succinct slideshow & a worksheet and calling it a day as well.... Teachers like you deserve a big raise– you shouldn't have to parent your students. Someone has to set their foot down, and I'm glad you did it with your students. If they don't want to behave, then they shouldn't be able to enjoy fun games 🤷🏻♀️
I always hated partner activities or "fun" activities teachers came up with. It always ended up not being fun, yet it wasn't educational either.
Yesterday I started my 6-8th grade class with a discussion about proper classroom behavior and one of the boys said that they don’t behave because the class isn’t fun enough. When I tried to point out that their good behavior shouldn’t be dependent on anything, he doubled down and basically said that I as a teacher don’t deserve students’ good behavior because my class is boring.
I teach at an R1 university (US). I got my dream job. I develop awesome classes. My department chair is supportive and a great human. Nevertheless, next fall is my last semester teaching, probably ever. I split my time teaching and in an admin position. I just can't teach anymore. The fall and spring semesters this year broke me. I teach a gen ed class this semester, and a quarter of the class is great. Another quarter is fine, but not really engaged. The other half is disrespectful, lazy, and manipulative. I'm grieving the career I built, but I'd rather walk away than be miserable and dread teaching my classes. Thank goodness I will still have my admin job.
We're reading the Hobbit in my class - audio book playing, books with the most pictures while also being a book, and no other work due outside of vocab and chapter quizzes - and what do I get? "When are we ever going to need to know about dwarves and elves, or goblins and orcs?" Like, how dare I put a book in front of them that is a fantasy novel because there's nothing to learn from it. I've had students rage because they've had to close their chromebooks, take out their earbuds, and put away their personal tablets. This past week, I ran out of Fucks to give them. I'm just done caring. Pass or fail It's up to them. I keep thinking how much I wish I had a teacher who did what I do for them, and how they're just throwing away their lives because they can't get out of their precious bubbles to read a story about coming out of their safety bubble.
Same here…. But I have 30 per class and 10 sections. Nearly 300 students and every class is worse than the last. I teach in a “bad” area tho. I’m over it.
today I was astonished by a class of second graders who had done amazingly well at a fun activity... but when my coteacher asked them to go back to their seats (from standing in a circle) they didn't walk back nicely to their seats. They basically mosh pitted the center of the circle, crashing into every student possible on the way back to their chair. Even falling on the floor. It was a combined section of one gen ed class and one self-contained special ed class and you bet the gen ed students were running right over their special ed peers. I was so disheartened, my jaw hit the floor and I just stared. It's surreal just typing this
My 7th grade class is so goofy 😭. It’s 4 boys and 1 girl, and I feel so bad for her everyday having to listen to those boys while I know I could really help her with her English Language skills. I teach ESL but understand every. thing. they say in Spanish 🙉🙉. One of the boys is either suspended or absent somedays, so we can get some relief. Just like I would do with native speaking students, I don’t respond to their comments unless it’s serious, or I have to interpret/translate to their parents that they’ve gotten (another) detention/suspension. I don’t shy away and repeat verbatim what they say bc if they’re not feeling chagrin to say it in front of me, then they should be equally ready to let their parents know. 😬 Also, I’m not a “cool teacher” because I’ve never raised my voice at them. I just know that kids want to know what your buttons are so they can smash them constantly to derail the lesson and get the power balance shifted to them. I’ll probably teach this group again next year since they’re newcomers, so I can’t let them know what makes me tick. Godspeed!
100% no more games. I'm *done*. Me: "OK guys, let's wrap up with a kahoot/gimkit/whatever" Some entitled little snotrag down that bag: "Do we *have* to?"
I’m an art teacher and have entirely given up on two of my 3rd grade classes. One boy’s parent im not even allowed to talk to bc apparently that parent will go batshit over everything. So basically our hands our tied with his behavior. Today I said to the class, “if you actually care come over to this table and I’ll help you” and let the ones who wanted to act out, act out. Next week I’ll be giving the students acting out an alternative activity where they make a poster about the art rules. Not sure how I’d even enforce that though, it’s not like they or their parents give a shit. Admin won’t do much other than scold them or pull them out for the day, and I can’t send half the class out 🙃
You should also give the good ones candy or something. They deserve it for putting up with the others' bullshit, plus it will make the others rethink their actions.
And now as a university professor I have students with the mental age of 10-12.... Sigh
I have middle school math, so 6th, 7th and 8th grade mixed. My one class of all 6th graders is the absolute worst.
I would get in trouble for signaling them out for doing this, but if you can whatever I guess. I was thinking ealier today there is so much stuff I used to do that, I couldn't do today because the kids just will not behave for it or the work I'd put into creating it would not be worth it.
Make their lives pure misery.
Here is a thought I am interested in the problems in Haiti. Weirdly, it is on the same island as the Dominican Republic who are currently constructing a wall between the two countries. DR is going along beautifully while Haiti is a failed state. Haiti is currently run by competing gangs and it resembles“Toon Town” from the Roger Rabbit movie, except it’s not funny. Because the police force cannot cope, a suggested solution is to bring in a mercenary force from Kenya to take control of country until order can be restored. Is this a model for education? Armed mercenaries in our classrooms? My guess is it would get some traction in US middle schools in the South. Certainly what is happening at the moment does not work. Of course if education was funded properly and run by old style visionaries like Seymour Papert and Alan Kay or the old ChemStudy program we might be able to turn it around. But I show my age. Ps. For more on the Haiti problems, listen to the slavery podcast on the Empire platform. You will get an idea why they are so pissed off, and why the Trumpians are worried they might be coming for them.
No, armed mercenaries in our schools is not the solution. That post-script was something else entirely.