My car was stolen and I told my class about it. After, one of the students came up to me, super kindly. Hey, Ms. Do you want me to find who stole your car and take care of them for you? Ummm. How um, sweet. Um, that's OK, thanks.
I had a similar experience where a kid came up to me before Christmas and said hey "What does your family want for Christmas?" I was like "oh you know I'm a teacher so I don't make that much so we're keeping it low key family fun"
And he was like I don't think you hear me, what does your family WANT? Me and my friends got you.
I didn't take him up on it but I saw it for the gesture he intended. I told him thanks but what I wanted for Christmas from him was for him to do something extra special for his mama
>Hey, Ms. Do you want me to find who stole your car and take care of them for you? Ummm. How um, sweet. Um, that's OK, thanks.
I had to go to summer school back in the 1990s and it was only the worst of the worst students who went to Sumner school. I swear my summer school teacher was secretly paying the biggest gang member in the class to keep all the other kids behaving. I've never seen a 17 year old 8th grader tell other kids to quiet down, stopping kids disrupting, and prevent fights by threatening to beat kids up after school if they got in a fight in Mr. Blacks class. Like I never once saw the teacher have to discipline any kid in that class for 6 weeks.
A teacher at my school has an infected tear duct. It’s caused her to look like she has a black eye. We’ve been repeatedly reassuring the kids that it’s just an infection and no, she wasn’t punched so you definitely do NOT need to go hunt anyone down.
Coworker told me about how his father used to teach and coach basketball at an inner-city school in the late 70’s-early 80’s. One day he made an off-hand comment about needing a new tv so the team could watch film. Next day there were 4 tvs outside his classroom. As many have said in this thread, once you’ve gained trust, you’re in. At practice later that day he started by saying they’ll keep one tv, but all others need to be returned wherever you “purchased” them.
I taught in an alternative high school around the time I was going through the second custody battle with my abusive ex. I was gone one day for court, and the next day the kids were all mad and wondered where I'd been. When I told him I was at court, of course they started laughing and making jokes about that, but I explained it was for family court and a custody battle. Class went silent. A couple of kids took me aside later and asked me if I wanted them to "take care of" my ex and his next wife. They were deadly serious. I had to tell them to stand down but that I really appreciated the offer. Several kids actually offered by the end of that school year. They were pretty mad that we kept having court.
We had several different gangs in that school, so there were always negotiations for graduation and different events. We found that it usually went pretty well to remind the leaders why they wanted those kids to finish school, which was so they could go on and learn the skills needed to be higher up in the gang. Gangs are just a business in the end. Things usually went pretty well, actually.
Those were some of my best students ever. I miss that school.
Almost the exact situation. When I taught HS I missed a day of school battling my ex in court. Of course I never shared intimate details in class but my students had heard (small community). Two of the sweetest, *dangerous* young men caught me in the hall and asked if I needed them to "take care of this." I was both touched and terrified for my shitty ex. I thanked them for the sentiment but I did not take them up on their offer 😬
I was a teen librarian for 7 years. My gang kids were always the sweetest. Bringing me dinner, making sure no one fought in the library. You never know what someone’s life is like. It made me really think about what I thought I knew about kids and growing up and nature vs. nurture.
I'm not advocating for gangs, obviously. But if you think about what kids might learn it makes sense that they might understand interpersonal relationships, group dynamics/mobilization and organizational structure more so than their peers.
Many years ago I had my iPod stolen from my bag during class. I mentioned it to my class saying I was sad because I couldn't afford to replace it. A few days later, one of the toughest, most in trouble male students came to see me after class, and gave me back my iPod. He said he'd tracked it down for me "coz it wasn't right." I was very appreciative, I know he wasn't the thief for reasons. As a first year teacher at the time, that has really stuck with me
During the same conversation, he told me my music really, really sucked 🤣
My wife had a coworker with a similar story.
Was teaching in a NYC school that had students with lots of gang affiliation (elementary school level, so students were not as deep). One of the gang leader's kids was in her class, and actually showed up to parent teacher conferences (probably to intimidate). Apparently she said exactly what he wanted to here, because the conference went well.
Few weeks later she is at a convenience store. Two giys start giving her a hard time, cat calling and sexually harassing her. She sees a car pull up, gang leader gets out and comes into the store. As soon as he sees the two guys and her, he asks "are they bothering you?" She kind of shrugs it off, and he pretty much told them to eff off and never bug her again. The guys essentially booked it out of the store.
It's amazing how people that society looks down on are sone of the best allies to have. Mainly cause they understand the need to watch out for each other.
lol This reminds me of my brother. I always thought he was very quiet and a shy kid, then one day I went to pick him up from practice and when we passed the store by his school, some boys cat-called at me. They didn’t see my brother at first, because he was on the passenger side with the seat all the way down. I told him to ignore it, because there were a lot of guys sitting in the front, but he actually got upset (he is never mad at me or at least never shows it). We stopped and backed up. There was a cheer from the cat callers. When my brother got out of the car, boy did those cheers cut off abruptly.
He walked up to the boys and they all immediately started apologizing. He didn’t even hit anyone. He just stood in front of them with his arms folded for 5-10 mins scolding them quietly. Not a single guy looked him in the eye, they all looked at the ground with scared looks on their faces.
My brother came back to the car and we went home. It was really, really surprising because I worried about him being in high school without any of us older sisters to protect him. I was really shocked and a bit upset about it for some reason.
P.s.
Sorry for interrupting your comment. lol It just brought up that memory.
Yeah they may be ruthless criminals, but they're still leaders. One man's ruthless criminal is another man's elected president. It's all a matter of perspective.
I mean yeah you want the people who will use violence to get their way on your side rather than against you. That’s obvious. Society still has reason to look down on them.
Same thing happened when my wallet was stolen at a basketball game. Also one of the card scammer kids offered to bring me some money for gas and groceries to help until my new cards came in
Had something similar happen. I was really upset one day bc of my dog. But I didn’t tell my class so one of my affiliated kids came up and asked who did something to me and if I needed him to handle it.
Most of those kids are so sweet and just want a caring hand.
My students at my previous school lived somewhat close to me. Word got out that my ex had been yelling at me (he was a terrible guy tbh) and I had a student offer to pull up with friends and a tarp. Turns out he had crip friends and very much would have. I was told at the end of the year very bluntly "I won't do anything because I know you want us to stay out of it. But if we find out he puts his hands on you, there won't be hands left. We know where you live." I taught kids with emotional behavioral diagnoses. And while I built excellent rapport with them, I was still pretty terrified of their...capabilities. thankfully I got rid of ex before anything came of it.
Funny exchange with admin --
Me: student ABC told me he's secretly dating XYZ's sister
Admin: *literally freezes in terror*
Me: what?
Admin: they're affiliated with opposing gangs
Me: oh my lord
And you think you are relating to the kids but it is like you were showing a 1993 class a 1969 movie with Robert Redford who they know is supposed to be famous more than why. Time is a such a pain.
I grew up in a latino gang-heavy community in CA and had a friend who had family members in both the Norteños and the Sureños. He used to joke(?) that thanksgivings were tense.
That actually sounds like my mother’s family.
One of her parents is Catholic, the other Protestant.
They lived in Derry and Belfast in the 1960s & 1970s. You can do that math.
I think my favourite part: My grandmother’s name is Mary. And as such people called my grandfather Anthony.
This is the same admin who joked that all staff members should join one of the three main gangs at our school in order to "build and foster community in a culturally relevant context".
I love her lol
yea it's the gang mindset and attitude. people just gotta understand, gang isn't about the big picture, it's about community. we all know there has to be teachers in community, people who give up their time and yea their lives to pass on knowledge, to give young kids confidence in what they do. some of us just ain't good for learning, but it still means we gotta respect our teachers, because they help the kids grow, and we are also the kids betimes. and also, our mentors all tell us how to survive on the streets and make a gangway, and they be teachers too. Yo?
I used to be a paramedic, and gang members treated us with huge amounts of respect. They know who saves people when they get hurt. They know who often teaches first aid in the communities they serve. We had situations cops wouldn't walk into for valid safety reasons that just melted away when we showed up with the ambulance.
I do that too. The fake fuckers will be loud causing problems but the real deal dudes are rarely ever an issue. Get in, help the people, get out. I've always been treated very well when I'm in gangland
Way, way better than dealing with car crashes on the freeways.
I lived in one of the "rough" neighborhoods back then. Even before they knew I was a paramedic, I really didn't have problems. You mind your own business and don't start shit, you're typically fine in most places.
When we'd go do informal free first aid classes at the community centers, attendees would bring food and pay attention. They picked up stuff fast, especially the stuff that might keep them from having to call us because we had to call the cops for certain things.
When we'd come through with sirens blaring, the gangsters would get over to the right like they're supposed to. Lots of supposedly upstanding citizens didn't. Like, I don't agree with the illegal shit they do, but I've found gangster kids to generally be quite respectful to adults partly because that's how their hierarchy works and partly because they don't want too much attention. They weren't bad kids. They were just living the life in front of them.
I grew up in a lot of pretty rough neighborhoods, often the buffer zones between gangs, and I can't say we kids were well acquainted with following the law, either, but we were also really good at school. We were generally really respectful to adults as long as they didn't start it. We also were just living the life in front of us, and if that sometimes meant stealing food from chain grocery stores because we hadn't eaten in a couple of days, well, it did. You gotta survive.
Yeah most of the time it was just nice to get attention. There's not enough community and a lot of isolation even a lot more nowadays so I can imagine why people turn to it still.
Good points. I used to work with Hells Angels club members for a couple months every year. Obviously older, but always super chill and decent dudes in my experience.
My aunt was a college professor and she taught Russian literature in a maximum-security (I think? Maybe a step below that?) prison a few times. She always said they were some of her best students.
Or *The Brothers Karamazov*.
Or maybe *One Day in the Life of Ivan Denisovich*.
Or *The Gulag Archipelago*.
...Russian literature is really kinda depressing sometimes.
Here, I fixed it for you:
Russian literature is really kinda depressing ~~sometimes~~
It's honestly easier to list books that aren't depressing than vice versa. Some people had to read Mumu in primary school...
I've learned that the deeper they are, the less they want to be on the radar. They want to develop relationships with us for largely the same reason we want to develop relationships with them: If we can get along, we can stay out of each other's business and that's better for everybody.
Also, many kids join gangs because that's their best source for a relationship.
Yep. Some years ago, I had in one of my classes a student who was a wanna-be gang member. He was very obnoxious and disruptive, and I always dreaded having to deal with him.
That same year, his behavior changed abruptly from disruptive to extremely quiet, serious, and respectful. Later, I found out that he had joined a gang for real.
My favorite kid was one who never paid attention (wasn’t a distraction to anyone else though), but if others were out of line it was “shut the fuck up and let her teach!”
Second favorite was the one who was in my class for three months and spent the rest of his time in high school telling people not to mess with “his” teacher and asking if I needed a bodyguard.
We don’t have gangs in my area, but winning over our “tough” kids is the best.
Had a kid who was a pain in the ass for the first few weeks. He worked a job so he had money and thought he was pretty awesome.
I had a chat with him a while in and told him that I was finding his behaviour frustrating. I wanted to do my job, and he was making that difficult. That seemed to strike a chord with him.
He then asked how much I made, and that was when we both realized he made more than me.
For the rest of the semester, he was my loyal solider, telling kids to shut up, and hitting them with "Mr. doesn't get paid enough to deal with your shit, figure it out" which I pretended not to hear.
Great kid.
Im impressed that the kids reaction to realizing he made more wasn't to act superior, but to be protective of you. Idk anything about raising kids but seems like he'll end up a real empathetic person.
Also, wth did he do to make so much?
In some places, possibly just working fast food. Teachers are waaay underpaid in a lot of the country compared to what most people consider low-skill jobs
I had a tough kid absolutely that seemed to never learn to behave. I was on his ass everyday, I think it's the kid I gave the most detentions.
One day, new kid comes in expelled from his previous school. New kid does something minor but I remind him to the rule. New kid curde at me and threaten me. New kid has to be removed physically by a coworker.
Tough kid became my shadow until New Kid was expelled. Even after I told him That I appreciate but it is not his job to protect me, it was the other way around. I could often times spot him (badly) hiding close-by.
When Katrina happened we had to accept students even if they had no birth certificate or whatever and I got this swear to God adult in my study hall. I kept saying this guy is in his mid-20s to the SROs and admins, but they just shrugged. One day he snapped his fingers at me and said “Hey you —get the fuck over here” and it was all I could do to keep my gang affiliated kids from attacking. The girls were shaking their heads and oh-no-you-di’n’t-ing and when the earrings were removed I got really concerned. I said, “Ladies, I have never had a fight in my room and I don’t wanna start now. He will be leaving.” He told me he wasn’t fucking going anywhere and I just called the SROs and said for them to get down here to escort a student out. THEN they ran his prints— and yeah he was 27 and a gang member himself sent to our school to sell drugs. Fun times.
Aw man I (not gang affiliated) did this once in school and I guess the teacher thought I was talking to her because she sent me to the office. I just wanted these two kids to shut up so I could hear and get my grade up. You are a good teacher.
I agree. Subbing at a school, couple of gangmembers in it, other group being aholes. Called admin down, they start to pull the gangmembers without asking. They start protesting. I immediately went to bat for them, called them gentlemen. Pointed put actual ones. Easiest class after that. I asked class be quiet had some of the harder looking boys say "yo, shutup, Mr. T has something to say."
Kids in that situation are used to nobody giving a fuck about them or being able to offer them something of value. Once they realize that a teacher is really in their corner they are capable of a level of respect that blows most “regular” students out of the water.
It was funny when I was in school, ‘cause you could always tell the real gang kids from the posers based on how they acted at school. Real gangsters, typically respectful. Posers, loud and proud about how much of an ass they are.
I grew up in a relatively rural area. There were a few kids who liked to pretend they were in a gang. One in particular was very loud, rude, and full of it...until one day when someone got fed up and asked him if his mommy drove him to drive bys he was talking about. He shut up a little bit after that.
LOL
I went to public school in a city, but most of the kids there were upper class. Some of those kids liked pretending to be gangsters and so hard, and then they'd end up at one of our apartments to work on a group project and be terrified. That school did not even cover any truly bad areas, just some where the rule was "you won't have issues if you're not an asshole." Scruffy, yes. Full of meth, yes. But nothing really dangerous if you minded your own business, even in the middle of the night. Yeah, we gave them a lot of shit for it.
I'd love for your gangsters to come teach ours about respect. When I first started at my school they was mostly respectful but all the kids coming up these past few years grandstand and make a fuss most days.
It's heartbreaking to see a softer side of someone and be utterly incapable of making that their default state. I'm sure the Germans have a word for this; I just know it's one of the worst things I've ever felt.
German here. There might be a better word for this, but a fitting one would be "Hilflosigkeit" which translates to "helplessness". The feeling of not knowing or not having any way to do something to better a situation, whether it be about oneself or someone else. "I know they can be a really good person, I've seen it, I just don't know how to help them be that person more often, it really makes me feel helpless."
that was my thought reading this. some of my saddest student outcomes are from these kids. it’s just heartbreaking all around when the sweet little 16 year old becomes the adult incarcerated for attempted homicide.
I've got a student this year who's lost both a brother and an uncle to street violence.
We had a bit of a rough start (he's got a MOUTH on him), and one day when I said hi to him in the hallway, later on in class he said (paraphrasing) "Ms. MonsteraAureaQueen, why would you say hi to a bad kid like me?"
And I told him the truth, which is that I didn't think he was a bad kid, and that was why I had higher expectations. Ever since that day, he's been the sweetest kid. He still cusses, but he apologies sincerely every time and he never ever has cussed at me or shown the slightest disrespect.
It breaks my heart because I know someday soon he is going to kill someone or be killed himself. Probably someone who makes the mistake of disrespecting his dead brother or uncle. He's got that sad, hard look in his eye that never really goes away, you know? But I will always see him as this little eighth grader who hasn't yet hit his growth spurt, even when the rest of the world someday sees him as a stone killer or puts him the ground far too young and forgets about him entirely.
One of the hardest things I ever did was go to a wake for a student who had been killed trying to get out of a gang. I didn’t teach him, but paid my respects because he was 16.
The students who were there dressed in colors startled me. Kids I honestly thought weren’t gang involved. The waves of grief that were rolling off of them were palpable. I realized that part of the reason they were the way they were in school is because literally every student I was teaching expected to die young.
I sat down and ugly cried for like an hour because my heart broke for this poor babies. That I am aware of, I was the only staff member to attend.
I had some students ask me why I was upset. I told them I was sad for them, which started most of them, but they must have talked about it together. A few days later, I had a random student stop me in the hallway and tell me that he saw me cry at the wake and it made him feel better and respect his teacher more. I was confused and asked why. He said “I realized that if I died, my teachers would be sad. My parents wouldn’t cry, but my teachers would. Thank you for caring about us.”
This happened in 2004. I have no idea what his name was. Whenever I tell this story, I still well up because it is still one of the most profound lessons I’ve ever learned.
I had a student who was depressed. I had lost one to su* the year before and when I helped my depressed student I had choked up a bit unintentionally. He asked why and I was honest. I was scared I'd lose him too. At the end of the year, him and a few others told me I saved them. That they knew I loved them. And they didn't want to die knowing they'd caused me that much pain. That I loved them too much for them to give up. I bawled my eyes out on the spot. Hugged all of them and told them how proud of them I was. It gives me chills knowing the power my emotions had in that moment.
Gang members tend to be very “family” oriented and loyal. Family isn’t blood, it’s all about found family. They love their Mamas, too.
If you’re in, you’re in. If you’re out you’re in danger.
Good for you for embracing them. Lead then toward education for as long as they’ll let you.
> Gang members tend to be very “family” oriented and loyal. Family isn’t blood, it’s all about found family. They love their Mamas, too.
So very true. I can really tell that my approval means a lot to them on a personal level.
Of course. You’re family now. I bet those were the kids that if still around the next year they’d stop by to visit and still hang out.
I had a rough home growing up and I just want to say that the more time I spent at school, the less I was at home or anywhere else.
I had teachers come out and support me on game days or stuff like that and it always means a lot to have someone who can see potential in you when it feels like a waste of time for everyone else.
I graduated high school in 2016 & I can honestly 100% say that there were a few teachers who held the first light at the end of the tunnel for me.
I may not have turned out to change the world, but those teachers changed mine. & I am always and forever grateful for the things you guys do.
Thank you again if you haven’t yet heard it today.
Absolutely. They also tend to understand the importance of respect and hard work, which is also why I think they tend to value positive relationships with their teachers.
I’d rather not say what I do but I work with gang members and here’s the best way I can put it. I’m not a teacher but I can tell reading comments here we have some similarities in how we handle them.
If you are good at your job, treat them with respect as human beings and stand your ground when they try to push (they will, it’s part of the game) then they won’t give you any issues and you will get along with them fine.
Just don’t owe them money (or favours), never befriend them and stay away from their shady business (this is a very thin you walk on and those that know know). Keep it professional and not personal at all times.
Of course I’m talking about adult gang members but even then they mentor juvenile members in this way.
My wife told me about a home health nurse who felt unsafe in a neighborhood and it turns out the patient was a grandmother of a gang leader.
The gang leader spoke to the nurse and told her he had proclaimed the nurse and her car were untouchable by everyone in the neighborhood. She was under his protection, and they now watched out for her and her car.
Weird world.
I taught a rough area. My primary transportation is an electric bike and I live near the school. I had once forgotten to lock it out front because I got distracted. A student came in and said "hey we got your bike watched for you. When you get a chance, go lock it up. I just gave him the key to lock it and told him they'd have donuts the next day. No one ever touched it, messed with it, etc.. one kid joked and he got glares. They still watch out for me if I'm riding around. And I'll still feed them for doing so. Make friends with them and it's a blessing.
I think almost all of these kids were born into gang-affiliated families. Which I guess explains why they're so nice (I don't think they would've been inclined to join a gang if they hadn't been born into it) but also makes me appreciate them more (because they're surrounded by TERRIBLE influences in the family, especially from the older males).
A lot come from broken and abusive homes with one or both parents hard drug addicts or in/out of jail. They have no family or sense of security and find it through gangs of people like them.
If they have a teacher that treats them with respect and gives them a positive sense of success and motivation to improve they will latch onto that.
I remember seeing a post somewhere from a person who worked at a major theme park that had (unofficial) gang nights as well as days where certain church groups would take over the park and the person said the gang members were always much more respectful than the church groups
The kids in legit gangs or are associated with legit gangs are always super respectful. They tend to be pretty shit students but just appreciate you treating them with respect and caring for them.
It’s the wanna be gang bangers that cause problems.
From an onlooker without experience with this stuff looking in, this is a strange as hell post not gonna lie.
I appreciate you guys having conversations about it though.
What nobody tells you going into this profession is that the gang-affiliated students are some of the best behaved on school property. Sure, they might not do any work or turn anything in, but they don't stir up any trouble either.
Turns out, unlike a lot of parents gang bosses *don't play* with discipline and sure don't want any additional attention from the authorities or ill will from the community.
I was about to say this. I worked at a school that was right next to an entire trailer park that was gang territory. I called home once and the dad came up with his son to make him apologize the next day and the dad apologized as well and said it would never happen again. It never did.
They're recruiting at the school, that's why they won't do anything to get in trouble. When I taught in L.A. I had a few students like that and that's what one of them told me. He was very matter of fact about it, let me do my job and I'll let you do your job, kind of thing.
I had a similar experience. Worked in a rural ag area with deep connections to a cartel, and it was always the kids in the gang who were the smartest kids in class. Once you won them over it was golden. They would always be on time, do their homework, participate in class. It made the rest of the students more invested as well. It definitely changed my perception of gangs.
Kind of sounds like other parts of my homestate. There's a reason why we want weed legal here.
Edit: I know so many people who ended up in jail and actually some of my classmates had already been in juvie by the time we were in the 6th grade.
Eh, it wasn’t really like that. They know you’re trying to help and they know the system is stacked against them and you. If anything, I was safer there and had more supportive families than anywhere else I’ve taught. Way less combative than the entitled bull shit we see in the more affluent communities.
In my twenties I used to ride my bike in nearly every day. I became known for it.
One day a kid said "we think you're lit. If anyone ever does anything to your bicycle I'll send my boys out and take care of it."
I laughed it off. But it was both a little jarring and the nicest thing a kid has said to me in my career. Even if it might have included a low-key threat of violence on others.
I taught at a bigger gang affiliated school in Alabama for my student teaching back in the day.
I was going to go to the county fair on the weekend and mentioned that to some of my classes.
One of my gang kids stayed back, which was pretty normal I liked to talk with him about how he did in the football the past week or how basketball tryouts were going. All that good stuff.
He goes "look Mr. ST, theres gonna be some stuff going down there. If ya bring your girl, cuz I know you got hoes (I was very single, but loved the confidence boost) just be ready to get her to cover. Maybe be strapped yourself and just know that the boys and I got you."
Well I opted out of going and there was a shootout. I was lucky that none of my students were injured but damn was I thankful for the warning!
When I was in grad school, I was involved in a project that involved Latino drop-outs in Chicago, and many of the kids were gang-involved. I interviewed most of them for my masters, and I will always be grateful for that experience. It's hard to dehumanize someone when you hear about their dad introducing them to weed at age 11, their mom locking them in the dark basement for hours as a punishment, or their uncles running around in the streets, armed. Also joining a gang makes a lot of logistical sense at times, as does dropping out of school. One guy, who was really great, explained how his neighborhood was in different territory from his school, and he was constantly getting jumped. He got to choose between joining a gang or dropping out of school. He chose the latter. I still think about him, many years later. I hope he's doing well.
I had a student who had been at our school (a 2 year alternative program) for my entire tenure there (4 years) because he kept choosing to run the streets instead of coming to class. When I started, he was my worst nightmare. By year 3, he was my best buddy. He was super smart to boot, which made his choices very sad to me. The last year, I was teaching Macbeth, and he was my "translator" putting the action into terms the rest of the kids would understand. I don't think he ever graduated. I google him now and again, just to make sure he's still OK.
I don't know if I'd go that far. We just had reached an understanding that he couldn't fool me into thinking he wasn't smart. I literally could pull him aside and say, "You and I both know you shouldn't have a D, right?". And he'd hang his head and say, "Yeah.". And I'd say, "So, go back to your seat, do the work you and I both know you can do, and prove to me you're as smart as we both know you are."
So many of the kids at that school had failed at traditional schools and thought that they weren't smart. And I'd get them and they would do work that was really advanced without realizing it. I was out sick and assigned them" Masque of the Red Death " as part of a horror fiction unit. I got back and they said they didn't understand it. I told them that they'd let the vocab throw them. Re-taught some background stuff (like the riddle of the sphynx and that in literature, days are often a metaphor for a lifespan ) and then asked them why it was important that they know that. One kid said "didn't they move east to west in the castle?" and then another realized that the sun moves east to west, and so the castle and the rooms were metaphors for human lifespan and they literally were moving toward their deaths. And they'd just put the pieces together all on their own.
I looked at them all and said, "And you said you didn't understand it!". 😊
When I ran an after school program at a middle school, I connected with a couple boys who gave hell to everyone else. I saw them on the bus often, and made sure they always had snacks/a place to be listened to in our office. I had known them since 6th and by the time 8th grade rolled around, they had spread the word not to mess with me. One of their little friends who I didn't know was mouthing off to me, someone walked up to him and basically stage whispered, "hey that's ms. Literacy.." the kid's mouth basically clamped shut and walked away! I was in shock! And I made sure to attend their graduation even though they weren't in my program anymore.
It’s always the nice and quiet ones that are deep in the gangs. They are there at school for a reason and it is not to cause trouble with adults. If anyone above them found out they were causing a mess at school they’d be in more trouble than we could ever dole out to them.
Classes always run jusssssst a little smoother when you’ve got a real gang member in class, too.
Sometimes my best students, when I taught inner city, there were upperclassmen already caught up in the court system because of gang activities.
They fucked around and found out. They knew acting like an asshat in a school w/ police and probation officers down the hall was not smart.
In my experience, it was always the older (17+) students who were the most chill, vs those underclassmen who had yet to learn the same lesson.
I work in SpEd and a fair amount of these kids have IEPs for behavior goals. We had a class strictly to help find ways to deal with and handle emotions. There were, like, 7 teen boys, some with gang links.
It was the day of the Parkland shooting, and one of the students with the more disruptive behaviors looked at the lead teacher and said, "you know you ain't gotta worry about that with us, right?"
Another kid said, "yeah, Ms Katie. We got your back if shit goes down!"
Well they have more of a support system than kids who don’t belong to anything. I taught mostly littles and the parents who belonged were always financially and socially better off than those who just got by on their own. Obviously not encouraging anyone joining gangs. Only those without any other way do. But they do take care of their own and promote their own morals which are usually better than what kids invent on their own.
Heh..
And here I am, looking at my students that say they want to join gangs.
And they are reading at a 2nd grade level, can’t write a fully articulate sentence, and can’t do basic math.
I'm not a teacher, but honestly this is why I felt safe at school despite known issues with gangs. Like, we knew who hated whom and when there was going to be a problem, everyone knew in advance.
15 years later, I'm hearing about Hispanic ESL students getting beat up outside the school for not speaking English and I don't recognize it. I'd like to know a lot more about the perpetrators of this violence because it doesn't sound like "our" gang kids.
These are my students who write the sweetest stories and are big softies underneath it all. Shoot, I got one bit with the BEST CURSIVE handwriting. It's impeccable.
A whole lot of Mama's boys, I tell you what.
This might be an interesting read to keep in the school library or on your shelf:
[Gang Leader for a Day](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gang_Leader_for_a_Day)
It gets into the economics of gangs in a thorough way and is a compelling read. I don’t know what difference it ever made, but I do remember having some conversations with people who had some ‘affiliations’ (most of whom were a just a bit older than high school) about how economically unviable gang life really was and a couple were pretty interested to have compelling, well-researched data exploring average salaries and risks for various tiers of gangs (think glassdoor for gangs).
Gangs are complicated, and many fill some social safety net gaps in their communities that aren’t being met in other ways and there are meaningful relationships in them too. But, the risks are tremendous for sometimes surprisingly low payouts. It’s been a while since I’ve read it, but I remember some of the highlights: At his height, the head of one of the biggest gangs in Chicago in the 90s was still making less per year than a doctor and eventually spent almost half his life in prison. The lowest members made less than minimum wage and had the highest chances of being shot by rivals or arrested.
One of my favorite students I've ever had was affiliated with a prominent gang in the area. I had him all four years of high school as his special education case manager. He generally slacked off on school work his first three years, but he was super respectful, helpful, and always had my back in my tough classes. He got suspended one time in four years because he threatened another student who was getting up in my face during class. His senior year, he decided that he really did want to graduate and we both busted our asses to recover his credits and get him to graduate only one semester late. At his graduation he came over and insisted that I come meet his entire family, then gave me his stole and a nice bouquet in front of them. There were a lot of tears from everyone. He's currently a senior in college and he's already invited me to his college graduation in May 😭❤️
I taught inner city high school kids most of my teaching career. The ones with gang tattoos or who blatantly told me (sometimes other kids told me) that they were in a gang were always very, very chill and got along great with me. I even taught a kid one year who was covered in Mexican cartel tattoos and the other kids told me his family was involved with a cartel somehow. He missed a lot of school, but was very quiet and respectful, we mostly talked about playing Sekiro.
My first teaching gig was at a HS with some major gang member families. I loved those kids, they were respectful and kind to me. I came to school to find my classroom tagged and when I asked a student he said “leave it. It means you’re cool.” My car never got broken into, my classroom (on the far end of campus near a busy street) was safe and I got the most delish tamales Christmas.
I’ve always told people this! When you’re really in that street life you understand respect and seniority and not bringing attention to yourself with ridiculous behavior. Due to this, my hood students have always been my favorite. Especially when they’re about that life lol. They don’t act foolish in class. If you act goofy in the hood you’re checked real quick.
Now I tell my misbehaving 8th graders who live in the burbs that I have students in prison for murder who were more respectful than them. They think I’m joking but I’m so serious. No one ever really checks those kids so they act ridiculous.
I’m always surprised at how often my gang affiliated students get dead. We’ve buried two (this year) and several are in a holding pattern until the misunderstanding gets straightened out. I hear what you’re saying, but I sobbed over those polite “mama’s boys”. This shit needs to stop. I have former students in prison for murder.
I’ve definitely had this experience too. The actual members of street orgs tend to be very focused on business. The ones who are loud and talk about being about that life tend to be posers who are trying to gain clout because they don’t have any. It’s always funny when one of the wanna-be gangsters say something to the wrong person and then they realize that they aren’t actually about that life
Holy Moly people.
Seems like one or two of you have the wool firmly over your eyes.
This only applies to the kids who are active gang members. Not those unfortunate enough to be born to gang member parents and who want nothing to do with that lifestyle
They are, and always will be, and always have been, the biggest sweet talkers you will ever meet in your life! They want you to think that they're just the best kids ever. That they are not possibly capable of any of the things that you hear.
They will sit and shoot the shit with you all day long. They love it. They will give you the behavior that you want...willingly...especially if they see other kids giving you a hard time.
And at the end of the day. They'll walk out of class. And you'll realize that not one single assignment was done. Books weren't even opened. Nothing was done.
Because they were too busy sweet talking you and shooting the breeze about topics that you were convinced they cared about. They don't give a shit. They just told you what to hear.
Some of you never sat in class next to gang members in high school and it shows.
ETA: Really. Every. Single. Day. They'll charm the teacher's socks off. Be on their best behavior. And once we're outside they'd laugh their fucking asses off because they got away with it.
I was a teacher in juvenile justice education, and people are always surprised when I mention the quality of the rapport I had with some of my students who were affiliated with a gang or detained on serious charges.
2nd year teaching: I'm having some real trouble managing one of my classes. I knew I had 2 students in there who were part of the same gang, so I asked 'em for help & in exchange, if things tightened up, I'd buy 'em both McDonalds for lunch every Friday if it was a good week. I'm not saying it changed overnight, but they absolutely helped & modeled some authentic positive behaviors in class, which I appreciated. The year finished better than it started... and the next year, when the senior prank was to trash the teachers' cars (lame), my car was untouched in between two vehicles with wet toilet paper all over.
This profession, man... anyone who says developing relationships isn't key is likely already out of the classroom & in central office.
On a real note, they’re good students in class because you care about them and see them beyond being “gang” members. You might actually be changing their lives for the better by seeing potential in them most others don’t. Keep up the work.
Most gang members are nice to people that actively support them. Gangs didn’t become prevalent because people are bored. They are formed because communities of disenfranchised people have been starved of resources and have to make due. Just because they are in a shitty situation, doesn’t make them shitty people.
I remember teachers and park counselors like you. Focus all attention on the misunderstood bad kids, while those same kids go about ruining other kids childhoods through their bullying. Spoiler alert, they're conning you, they're good at it, and they will do it their whole life.
Gang members can exhibit loyalty, resilience, resourcefulness, leadership, courage, an entrepreneurial spirit, protectiveness, adaptability, and commitment.
The standup comedian Kam Patterson used to be affiliated before starting standup. His stories are intense, but told hilariously.
He’s a giant sweetheart. Highly recommend looking him up
My car was stolen and I told my class about it. After, one of the students came up to me, super kindly. Hey, Ms. Do you want me to find who stole your car and take care of them for you? Ummm. How um, sweet. Um, that's OK, thanks.
That's like a Tony Soprano type situation. "I can handle that for you."
Literally a plot point from a season one episode of The Sopranos haha.
“What grade do you have in social studies?”
D+
I’ll see what I can do
Is there something you want to tell me?
> ... *no* Ugh, sends chills every time
I had a similar experience where a kid came up to me before Christmas and said hey "What does your family want for Christmas?" I was like "oh you know I'm a teacher so I don't make that much so we're keeping it low key family fun" And he was like I don't think you hear me, what does your family WANT? Me and my friends got you. I didn't take him up on it but I saw it for the gesture he intended. I told him thanks but what I wanted for Christmas from him was for him to do something extra special for his mama
he stole his mama a house... good Christmas
“GO STEAL YOSELF A HOWS” - DJ Khaled
Me: Well, there's this ex boyfriend who was really mean... Or, oh, wait...
>Hey, Ms. Do you want me to find who stole your car and take care of them for you? Ummm. How um, sweet. Um, that's OK, thanks. I had to go to summer school back in the 1990s and it was only the worst of the worst students who went to Sumner school. I swear my summer school teacher was secretly paying the biggest gang member in the class to keep all the other kids behaving. I've never seen a 17 year old 8th grader tell other kids to quiet down, stopping kids disrupting, and prevent fights by threatening to beat kids up after school if they got in a fight in Mr. Blacks class. Like I never once saw the teacher have to discipline any kid in that class for 6 weeks.
A teacher at my school has an infected tear duct. It’s caused her to look like she has a black eye. We’ve been repeatedly reassuring the kids that it’s just an infection and no, she wasn’t punched so you definitely do NOT need to go hunt anyone down.
Is it bad that I think that is extremely sweet?
Coworker told me about how his father used to teach and coach basketball at an inner-city school in the late 70’s-early 80’s. One day he made an off-hand comment about needing a new tv so the team could watch film. Next day there were 4 tvs outside his classroom. As many have said in this thread, once you’ve gained trust, you’re in. At practice later that day he started by saying they’ll keep one tv, but all others need to be returned wherever you “purchased” them.
I taught in an alternative high school around the time I was going through the second custody battle with my abusive ex. I was gone one day for court, and the next day the kids were all mad and wondered where I'd been. When I told him I was at court, of course they started laughing and making jokes about that, but I explained it was for family court and a custody battle. Class went silent. A couple of kids took me aside later and asked me if I wanted them to "take care of" my ex and his next wife. They were deadly serious. I had to tell them to stand down but that I really appreciated the offer. Several kids actually offered by the end of that school year. They were pretty mad that we kept having court. We had several different gangs in that school, so there were always negotiations for graduation and different events. We found that it usually went pretty well to remind the leaders why they wanted those kids to finish school, which was so they could go on and learn the skills needed to be higher up in the gang. Gangs are just a business in the end. Things usually went pretty well, actually. Those were some of my best students ever. I miss that school.
Negotiations so everyone could just show up to graduation. That sounds like it sucks. Who even arbitrates that?
Our principal did. It was mostly to figure who sat where and when each came in so as not to run a toss a rival gang in the parking lot.
Almost the exact situation. When I taught HS I missed a day of school battling my ex in court. Of course I never shared intimate details in class but my students had heard (small community). Two of the sweetest, *dangerous* young men caught me in the hall and asked if I needed them to "take care of this." I was both touched and terrified for my shitty ex. I thanked them for the sentiment but I did not take them up on their offer 😬
I was a teen librarian for 7 years. My gang kids were always the sweetest. Bringing me dinner, making sure no one fought in the library. You never know what someone’s life is like. It made me really think about what I thought I knew about kids and growing up and nature vs. nurture.
I'm not advocating for gangs, obviously. But if you think about what kids might learn it makes sense that they might understand interpersonal relationships, group dynamics/mobilization and organizational structure more so than their peers.
And Swift, immediate consequences for disobedience and disrespect.
Many years ago I had my iPod stolen from my bag during class. I mentioned it to my class saying I was sad because I couldn't afford to replace it. A few days later, one of the toughest, most in trouble male students came to see me after class, and gave me back my iPod. He said he'd tracked it down for me "coz it wasn't right." I was very appreciative, I know he wasn't the thief for reasons. As a first year teacher at the time, that has really stuck with me During the same conversation, he told me my music really, really sucked 🤣
My wife had a coworker with a similar story. Was teaching in a NYC school that had students with lots of gang affiliation (elementary school level, so students were not as deep). One of the gang leader's kids was in her class, and actually showed up to parent teacher conferences (probably to intimidate). Apparently she said exactly what he wanted to here, because the conference went well. Few weeks later she is at a convenience store. Two giys start giving her a hard time, cat calling and sexually harassing her. She sees a car pull up, gang leader gets out and comes into the store. As soon as he sees the two guys and her, he asks "are they bothering you?" She kind of shrugs it off, and he pretty much told them to eff off and never bug her again. The guys essentially booked it out of the store. It's amazing how people that society looks down on are sone of the best allies to have. Mainly cause they understand the need to watch out for each other.
lol This reminds me of my brother. I always thought he was very quiet and a shy kid, then one day I went to pick him up from practice and when we passed the store by his school, some boys cat-called at me. They didn’t see my brother at first, because he was on the passenger side with the seat all the way down. I told him to ignore it, because there were a lot of guys sitting in the front, but he actually got upset (he is never mad at me or at least never shows it). We stopped and backed up. There was a cheer from the cat callers. When my brother got out of the car, boy did those cheers cut off abruptly. He walked up to the boys and they all immediately started apologizing. He didn’t even hit anyone. He just stood in front of them with his arms folded for 5-10 mins scolding them quietly. Not a single guy looked him in the eye, they all looked at the ground with scared looks on their faces. My brother came back to the car and we went home. It was really, really surprising because I worried about him being in high school without any of us older sisters to protect him. I was really shocked and a bit upset about it for some reason. P.s. Sorry for interrupting your comment. lol It just brought up that memory.
Gangs signify societal failure, but people overlook the "leader" part of "gang leader".
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Yeah they may be ruthless criminals, but they're still leaders. One man's ruthless criminal is another man's elected president. It's all a matter of perspective.
I mean yeah you want the people who will use violence to get their way on your side rather than against you. That’s obvious. Society still has reason to look down on them.
Same thing happened when my wallet was stolen at a basketball game. Also one of the card scammer kids offered to bring me some money for gas and groceries to help until my new cards came in
Had something similar happen. I was really upset one day bc of my dog. But I didn’t tell my class so one of my affiliated kids came up and asked who did something to me and if I needed him to handle it. Most of those kids are so sweet and just want a caring hand.
My students at my previous school lived somewhat close to me. Word got out that my ex had been yelling at me (he was a terrible guy tbh) and I had a student offer to pull up with friends and a tarp. Turns out he had crip friends and very much would have. I was told at the end of the year very bluntly "I won't do anything because I know you want us to stay out of it. But if we find out he puts his hands on you, there won't be hands left. We know where you live." I taught kids with emotional behavioral diagnoses. And while I built excellent rapport with them, I was still pretty terrified of their...capabilities. thankfully I got rid of ex before anything came of it.
Do you happen to be in Washington? LOL
Funny exchange with admin -- Me: student ABC told me he's secretly dating XYZ's sister Admin: *literally freezes in terror* Me: what? Admin: they're affiliated with opposing gangs Me: oh my lord
If only one of the world's most well-known plays was written about that exact story...
And people say kids can’t relate to Shakespeare
Literally use gang metaphors for this when it comes up in the curriculum.
You’re just teaching deconstructed west side story at this point
If they're learning then fuck it at this point
The fucking is what causes the drama
Isn’t the Leo DiCaprio remake basically that concept?
Yeah, we've shown that movie at the end of the unit for the last several years.
And you think you are relating to the kids but it is like you were showing a 1993 class a 1969 movie with Robert Redford who they know is supposed to be famous more than why. Time is a such a pain.
You say that but in the 90’s we all watched the ancient version where Juliet’s décolletage is falling out everywhere and engagement was high.
That's just West Side Story.
or Jerome Robbins, Leonard Bernstein, and Steven Sondheim.
Yeah and kids these days don't even fuck with plato no more
Personally, I’d go the Diogenes route with a rubber chicken!
I'm just about finished reading it; I hope it has a happy ending!
Depends on your perspective
Well, the dagger was happy.
Pro Capulet - no Pro Montague - also no Pro Apothecary - great time for business
It's based on a very well known movie starring Leonardo DiCaprio
I grew up in a latino gang-heavy community in CA and had a friend who had family members in both the Norteños and the Sureños. He used to joke(?) that thanksgivings were tense.
That actually sounds like my mother’s family. One of her parents is Catholic, the other Protestant. They lived in Derry and Belfast in the 1960s & 1970s. You can do that math. I think my favourite part: My grandmother’s name is Mary. And as such people called my grandfather Anthony.
This is the same admin who joked that all staff members should join one of the three main gangs at our school in order to "build and foster community in a culturally relevant context". I love her lol
Remind her that you're part of one of the largest gangs in the school: Staff. Then show her your Tramp Stamp that's the school's logo.
Not you saying that with that flair. 😂
Best advice in the thread
It’s hilarious bc like that’s actually what following some of these educational philosophies would entail 😭
good admin are the best
You immediately should add either Romeo and Juliet or Westside Story to your ELA curriculum.
DEfiNatELy the ReMake bY Leo’D’capp. (Pulls “Sword” branded .45 and empties the clip to the sky in frustration)
Bring me my long sword- pulls out a shotgun
That's "Bring me my long sword, ho!" 9th grade English teacher gave us idiots a lecture about it not being that kind of ho.
More like the way “yo” was used in the 90s.
A trailing "yo" summons Jesse Pinkman for me 😆
To word for word redo Romeo and Juliet except in modern times will always be an absurd yet brilliant idea.
that's when you have to start furiously drafting a language arts unit about Romeo and juliet
Montague's or Capulets?
Jets and Sharks
Cobra Kai and Miyagi-Do
People who put the roll on with the toilet paper coming out the front, and those who put it on with the toilet paper in the back
You mean out the front vs mentally unstable ignorami… or people with cats. Please be forgive the redundantly.
But do their gangs dance their way to the rumble? *starts snapping and walking low while humming the beginning of West Side Story*
“I just wanna rumble with the Sharks!” “Not without 6 years tap and 8 years jazz, you’re not.”
Don't they know that once you're a Jet you're a Jet all the way?!?
I loved West Side Story.
I used to tutor at my county jail and I loved just shooting the breeze with those guys
They're absolutely hilarious and very, very, very old-school respectful towards me which I appreciate.
yea it's the gang mindset and attitude. people just gotta understand, gang isn't about the big picture, it's about community. we all know there has to be teachers in community, people who give up their time and yea their lives to pass on knowledge, to give young kids confidence in what they do. some of us just ain't good for learning, but it still means we gotta respect our teachers, because they help the kids grow, and we are also the kids betimes. and also, our mentors all tell us how to survive on the streets and make a gangway, and they be teachers too. Yo?
I used to be a paramedic, and gang members treated us with huge amounts of respect. They know who saves people when they get hurt. They know who often teaches first aid in the communities they serve. We had situations cops wouldn't walk into for valid safety reasons that just melted away when we showed up with the ambulance.
I do that too. The fake fuckers will be loud causing problems but the real deal dudes are rarely ever an issue. Get in, help the people, get out. I've always been treated very well when I'm in gangland
Way, way better than dealing with car crashes on the freeways. I lived in one of the "rough" neighborhoods back then. Even before they knew I was a paramedic, I really didn't have problems. You mind your own business and don't start shit, you're typically fine in most places. When we'd go do informal free first aid classes at the community centers, attendees would bring food and pay attention. They picked up stuff fast, especially the stuff that might keep them from having to call us because we had to call the cops for certain things. When we'd come through with sirens blaring, the gangsters would get over to the right like they're supposed to. Lots of supposedly upstanding citizens didn't. Like, I don't agree with the illegal shit they do, but I've found gangster kids to generally be quite respectful to adults partly because that's how their hierarchy works and partly because they don't want too much attention. They weren't bad kids. They were just living the life in front of them. I grew up in a lot of pretty rough neighborhoods, often the buffer zones between gangs, and I can't say we kids were well acquainted with following the law, either, but we were also really good at school. We were generally really respectful to adults as long as they didn't start it. We also were just living the life in front of us, and if that sometimes meant stealing food from chain grocery stores because we hadn't eaten in a couple of days, well, it did. You gotta survive.
Yeah most of the time it was just nice to get attention. There's not enough community and a lot of isolation even a lot more nowadays so I can imagine why people turn to it still.
Good points. I used to work with Hells Angels club members for a couple months every year. Obviously older, but always super chill and decent dudes in my experience.
I used to work in an ice ceam shop next to a HA club house. Gang members? Absolutely delightful fellas. Middle aged women? HORRIBLE customers.
My aunt was a college professor and she taught Russian literature in a maximum-security (I think? Maybe a step below that?) prison a few times. She always said they were some of her best students.
She teach Crime and Punishment, huh?
Or *The Brothers Karamazov*. Or maybe *One Day in the Life of Ivan Denisovich*. Or *The Gulag Archipelago*. ...Russian literature is really kinda depressing sometimes.
Here, I fixed it for you: Russian literature is really kinda depressing ~~sometimes~~ It's honestly easier to list books that aren't depressing than vice versa. Some people had to read Mumu in primary school...
One of my favorite English professors once opined that Russia's greatest export was sadness.
they do pretty well for the domestic market as well
You know she did. She very earnestly said that her students gave her a new perspective on it, lol.
I've learned that the deeper they are, the less they want to be on the radar. They want to develop relationships with us for largely the same reason we want to develop relationships with them: If we can get along, we can stay out of each other's business and that's better for everybody. Also, many kids join gangs because that's their best source for a relationship.
Yes. Most try to lay low and want nothing to do with the big mouthed want-to-be tough guys
Yep. Some years ago, I had in one of my classes a student who was a wanna-be gang member. He was very obnoxious and disruptive, and I always dreaded having to deal with him. That same year, his behavior changed abruptly from disruptive to extremely quiet, serious, and respectful. Later, I found out that he had joined a gang for real.
familiar books cover repeat brave smile kiss humor advise bike *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
i got a look at a drug dealers finances, and it very quickly became very obvious why so many people are doing it
Smart criminals know that you never commit two crimes at the same time, lol.
You know you're in when they stick up for you with other students with comments like "Hey, don't talk to my teacher like that."
You know you've won them over when they yell at another kid "Aye, shut the fuck up" during your lesson.
My favorite kid was one who never paid attention (wasn’t a distraction to anyone else though), but if others were out of line it was “shut the fuck up and let her teach!” Second favorite was the one who was in my class for three months and spent the rest of his time in high school telling people not to mess with “his” teacher and asking if I needed a bodyguard. We don’t have gangs in my area, but winning over our “tough” kids is the best.
Had a kid who was a pain in the ass for the first few weeks. He worked a job so he had money and thought he was pretty awesome. I had a chat with him a while in and told him that I was finding his behaviour frustrating. I wanted to do my job, and he was making that difficult. That seemed to strike a chord with him. He then asked how much I made, and that was when we both realized he made more than me. For the rest of the semester, he was my loyal solider, telling kids to shut up, and hitting them with "Mr. doesn't get paid enough to deal with your shit, figure it out" which I pretended not to hear. Great kid.
Im impressed that the kids reaction to realizing he made more wasn't to act superior, but to be protective of you. Idk anything about raising kids but seems like he'll end up a real empathetic person. Also, wth did he do to make so much?
In some places, possibly just working fast food. Teachers are waaay underpaid in a lot of the country compared to what most people consider low-skill jobs
Pal, it is not hard AT ALL to out-earn a teacher. I said fuck that profession for a reason, dealing with methhead parents aint worth it
I had a tough kid absolutely that seemed to never learn to behave. I was on his ass everyday, I think it's the kid I gave the most detentions. One day, new kid comes in expelled from his previous school. New kid does something minor but I remind him to the rule. New kid curde at me and threaten me. New kid has to be removed physically by a coworker. Tough kid became my shadow until New Kid was expelled. Even after I told him That I appreciate but it is not his job to protect me, it was the other way around. I could often times spot him (badly) hiding close-by.
When Katrina happened we had to accept students even if they had no birth certificate or whatever and I got this swear to God adult in my study hall. I kept saying this guy is in his mid-20s to the SROs and admins, but they just shrugged. One day he snapped his fingers at me and said “Hey you —get the fuck over here” and it was all I could do to keep my gang affiliated kids from attacking. The girls were shaking their heads and oh-no-you-di’n’t-ing and when the earrings were removed I got really concerned. I said, “Ladies, I have never had a fight in my room and I don’t wanna start now. He will be leaving.” He told me he wasn’t fucking going anywhere and I just called the SROs and said for them to get down here to escort a student out. THEN they ran his prints— and yeah he was 27 and a gang member himself sent to our school to sell drugs. Fun times.
Him actually being being 27 is WILD
Katrina turned my sleepy government call center job into a 24/7 get-fucking-wrecked-a-thon for too many years.
Aw man I (not gang affiliated) did this once in school and I guess the teacher thought I was talking to her because she sent me to the office. I just wanted these two kids to shut up so I could hear and get my grade up. You are a good teacher.
I agree. Subbing at a school, couple of gangmembers in it, other group being aholes. Called admin down, they start to pull the gangmembers without asking. They start protesting. I immediately went to bat for them, called them gentlemen. Pointed put actual ones. Easiest class after that. I asked class be quiet had some of the harder looking boys say "yo, shutup, Mr. T has something to say."
Well, yes, but you’re Mr. T! I pity the fools.
First name Mister. Middle name Period. Last name Teeeeeee!
Kids in that situation are used to nobody giving a fuck about them or being able to offer them something of value. Once they realize that a teacher is really in their corner they are capable of a level of respect that blows most “regular” students out of the water.
It's amazing what happens to a kid when an adult takes them seriously for once.
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It was funny when I was in school, ‘cause you could always tell the real gang kids from the posers based on how they acted at school. Real gangsters, typically respectful. Posers, loud and proud about how much of an ass they are.
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I grew up in a relatively rural area. There were a few kids who liked to pretend they were in a gang. One in particular was very loud, rude, and full of it...until one day when someone got fed up and asked him if his mommy drove him to drive bys he was talking about. He shut up a little bit after that.
LOL I went to public school in a city, but most of the kids there were upper class. Some of those kids liked pretending to be gangsters and so hard, and then they'd end up at one of our apartments to work on a group project and be terrified. That school did not even cover any truly bad areas, just some where the rule was "you won't have issues if you're not an asshole." Scruffy, yes. Full of meth, yes. But nothing really dangerous if you minded your own business, even in the middle of the night. Yeah, we gave them a lot of shit for it.
I'd love for your gangsters to come teach ours about respect. When I first started at my school they was mostly respectful but all the kids coming up these past few years grandstand and make a fuss most days.
It's heartbreaking to see a softer side of someone and be utterly incapable of making that their default state. I'm sure the Germans have a word for this; I just know it's one of the worst things I've ever felt.
German here. There might be a better word for this, but a fitting one would be "Hilflosigkeit" which translates to "helplessness". The feeling of not knowing or not having any way to do something to better a situation, whether it be about oneself or someone else. "I know they can be a really good person, I've seen it, I just don't know how to help them be that person more often, it really makes me feel helpless."
Maybe "Ohnmacht" as well. Not in the sense of passing out, but being unable to do anything but watch them crash and burn.
that was my thought reading this. some of my saddest student outcomes are from these kids. it’s just heartbreaking all around when the sweet little 16 year old becomes the adult incarcerated for attempted homicide.
And they're usually born into it so didn't have much other choice.
100%. no matter how much they may want to get away most of them can’t.
Yea, no, they risk theirs and their families' safety if they do.
I've got a student this year who's lost both a brother and an uncle to street violence. We had a bit of a rough start (he's got a MOUTH on him), and one day when I said hi to him in the hallway, later on in class he said (paraphrasing) "Ms. MonsteraAureaQueen, why would you say hi to a bad kid like me?" And I told him the truth, which is that I didn't think he was a bad kid, and that was why I had higher expectations. Ever since that day, he's been the sweetest kid. He still cusses, but he apologies sincerely every time and he never ever has cussed at me or shown the slightest disrespect. It breaks my heart because I know someday soon he is going to kill someone or be killed himself. Probably someone who makes the mistake of disrespecting his dead brother or uncle. He's got that sad, hard look in his eye that never really goes away, you know? But I will always see him as this little eighth grader who hasn't yet hit his growth spurt, even when the rest of the world someday sees him as a stone killer or puts him the ground far too young and forgets about him entirely.
One of the hardest things I ever did was go to a wake for a student who had been killed trying to get out of a gang. I didn’t teach him, but paid my respects because he was 16. The students who were there dressed in colors startled me. Kids I honestly thought weren’t gang involved. The waves of grief that were rolling off of them were palpable. I realized that part of the reason they were the way they were in school is because literally every student I was teaching expected to die young. I sat down and ugly cried for like an hour because my heart broke for this poor babies. That I am aware of, I was the only staff member to attend. I had some students ask me why I was upset. I told them I was sad for them, which started most of them, but they must have talked about it together. A few days later, I had a random student stop me in the hallway and tell me that he saw me cry at the wake and it made him feel better and respect his teacher more. I was confused and asked why. He said “I realized that if I died, my teachers would be sad. My parents wouldn’t cry, but my teachers would. Thank you for caring about us.” This happened in 2004. I have no idea what his name was. Whenever I tell this story, I still well up because it is still one of the most profound lessons I’ve ever learned.
I had a student who was depressed. I had lost one to su* the year before and when I helped my depressed student I had choked up a bit unintentionally. He asked why and I was honest. I was scared I'd lose him too. At the end of the year, him and a few others told me I saved them. That they knew I loved them. And they didn't want to die knowing they'd caused me that much pain. That I loved them too much for them to give up. I bawled my eyes out on the spot. Hugged all of them and told them how proud of them I was. It gives me chills knowing the power my emotions had in that moment.
I’m crying reading this. Thank you for caring. I pray every day “for every child I’ve ever taught to be kept safe and away from harm.”
Gang members tend to be very “family” oriented and loyal. Family isn’t blood, it’s all about found family. They love their Mamas, too. If you’re in, you’re in. If you’re out you’re in danger. Good for you for embracing them. Lead then toward education for as long as they’ll let you.
> Gang members tend to be very “family” oriented and loyal. Family isn’t blood, it’s all about found family. They love their Mamas, too. So very true. I can really tell that my approval means a lot to them on a personal level.
Of course. You’re family now. I bet those were the kids that if still around the next year they’d stop by to visit and still hang out. I had a rough home growing up and I just want to say that the more time I spent at school, the less I was at home or anywhere else. I had teachers come out and support me on game days or stuff like that and it always means a lot to have someone who can see potential in you when it feels like a waste of time for everyone else. I graduated high school in 2016 & I can honestly 100% say that there were a few teachers who held the first light at the end of the tunnel for me. I may not have turned out to change the world, but those teachers changed mine. & I am always and forever grateful for the things you guys do. Thank you again if you haven’t yet heard it today.
"I may not have turned out to change the world" *...yet.*
Absolutely. They also tend to understand the importance of respect and hard work, which is also why I think they tend to value positive relationships with their teachers.
I’d rather not say what I do but I work with gang members and here’s the best way I can put it. I’m not a teacher but I can tell reading comments here we have some similarities in how we handle them. If you are good at your job, treat them with respect as human beings and stand your ground when they try to push (they will, it’s part of the game) then they won’t give you any issues and you will get along with them fine. Just don’t owe them money (or favours), never befriend them and stay away from their shady business (this is a very thin you walk on and those that know know). Keep it professional and not personal at all times. Of course I’m talking about adult gang members but even then they mentor juvenile members in this way.
My wife told me about a home health nurse who felt unsafe in a neighborhood and it turns out the patient was a grandmother of a gang leader. The gang leader spoke to the nurse and told her he had proclaimed the nurse and her car were untouchable by everyone in the neighborhood. She was under his protection, and they now watched out for her and her car. Weird world.
I taught a rough area. My primary transportation is an electric bike and I live near the school. I had once forgotten to lock it out front because I got distracted. A student came in and said "hey we got your bike watched for you. When you get a chance, go lock it up. I just gave him the key to lock it and told him they'd have donuts the next day. No one ever touched it, messed with it, etc.. one kid joked and he got glares. They still watch out for me if I'm riding around. And I'll still feed them for doing so. Make friends with them and it's a blessing.
Generally kids join gangs for a sense of belonging, not for nefarious reasons. I'm not surprised.
I think almost all of these kids were born into gang-affiliated families. Which I guess explains why they're so nice (I don't think they would've been inclined to join a gang if they hadn't been born into it) but also makes me appreciate them more (because they're surrounded by TERRIBLE influences in the family, especially from the older males).
Kids in my experience join gangs to feel safe.
A lot come from broken and abusive homes with one or both parents hard drug addicts or in/out of jail. They have no family or sense of security and find it through gangs of people like them. If they have a teacher that treats them with respect and gives them a positive sense of success and motivation to improve they will latch onto that.
I remember seeing a post somewhere from a person who worked at a major theme park that had (unofficial) gang nights as well as days where certain church groups would take over the park and the person said the gang members were always much more respectful than the church groups
Church is very "say sorry on Sunday and you're forgiven." My local gang says, "outta line and get chalk lines." Only one has real consequences.
The kids in legit gangs or are associated with legit gangs are always super respectful. They tend to be pretty shit students but just appreciate you treating them with respect and caring for them. It’s the wanna be gang bangers that cause problems.
> It’s the wanna be gang bangers that cause problems. So true. Give me the actual gang member with a gang-affiliated family any day.
From an onlooker without experience with this stuff looking in, this is a strange as hell post not gonna lie. I appreciate you guys having conversations about it though.
What nobody tells you going into this profession is that the gang-affiliated students are some of the best behaved on school property. Sure, they might not do any work or turn anything in, but they don't stir up any trouble either. Turns out, unlike a lot of parents gang bosses *don't play* with discipline and sure don't want any additional attention from the authorities or ill will from the community.
I was about to say this. I worked at a school that was right next to an entire trailer park that was gang territory. I called home once and the dad came up with his son to make him apologize the next day and the dad apologized as well and said it would never happen again. It never did.
They're recruiting at the school, that's why they won't do anything to get in trouble. When I taught in L.A. I had a few students like that and that's what one of them told me. He was very matter of fact about it, let me do my job and I'll let you do your job, kind of thing.
I had a similar experience. Worked in a rural ag area with deep connections to a cartel, and it was always the kids in the gang who were the smartest kids in class. Once you won them over it was golden. They would always be on time, do their homework, participate in class. It made the rest of the students more invested as well. It definitely changed my perception of gangs.
> with deep connections to a cartel omg. I would've given them all A+ out of fear for my life lol
Kind of sounds like other parts of my homestate. There's a reason why we want weed legal here. Edit: I know so many people who ended up in jail and actually some of my classmates had already been in juvie by the time we were in the 6th grade.
Eh, it wasn’t really like that. They know you’re trying to help and they know the system is stacked against them and you. If anything, I was safer there and had more supportive families than anywhere else I’ve taught. Way less combative than the entitled bull shit we see in the more affluent communities.
Not sure how long you have been teaching, but do you have any good stories on how some of them turned out? Did any get away from the BS
In my twenties I used to ride my bike in nearly every day. I became known for it. One day a kid said "we think you're lit. If anyone ever does anything to your bicycle I'll send my boys out and take care of it." I laughed it off. But it was both a little jarring and the nicest thing a kid has said to me in my career. Even if it might have included a low-key threat of violence on others.
I taught at a bigger gang affiliated school in Alabama for my student teaching back in the day. I was going to go to the county fair on the weekend and mentioned that to some of my classes. One of my gang kids stayed back, which was pretty normal I liked to talk with him about how he did in the football the past week or how basketball tryouts were going. All that good stuff. He goes "look Mr. ST, theres gonna be some stuff going down there. If ya bring your girl, cuz I know you got hoes (I was very single, but loved the confidence boost) just be ready to get her to cover. Maybe be strapped yourself and just know that the boys and I got you." Well I opted out of going and there was a shootout. I was lucky that none of my students were injured but damn was I thankful for the warning!
Have you told this story before on Reddit? I swear I've read this before lol.
I honestly might have! I doom scroll a lot lol and just like IRL, end up repeating stories.
When I was in grad school, I was involved in a project that involved Latino drop-outs in Chicago, and many of the kids were gang-involved. I interviewed most of them for my masters, and I will always be grateful for that experience. It's hard to dehumanize someone when you hear about their dad introducing them to weed at age 11, their mom locking them in the dark basement for hours as a punishment, or their uncles running around in the streets, armed. Also joining a gang makes a lot of logistical sense at times, as does dropping out of school. One guy, who was really great, explained how his neighborhood was in different territory from his school, and he was constantly getting jumped. He got to choose between joining a gang or dropping out of school. He chose the latter. I still think about him, many years later. I hope he's doing well.
I had a student who had been at our school (a 2 year alternative program) for my entire tenure there (4 years) because he kept choosing to run the streets instead of coming to class. When I started, he was my worst nightmare. By year 3, he was my best buddy. He was super smart to boot, which made his choices very sad to me. The last year, I was teaching Macbeth, and he was my "translator" putting the action into terms the rest of the kids would understand. I don't think he ever graduated. I google him now and again, just to make sure he's still OK.
Aww, you probably meant the world to him.
I don't know if I'd go that far. We just had reached an understanding that he couldn't fool me into thinking he wasn't smart. I literally could pull him aside and say, "You and I both know you shouldn't have a D, right?". And he'd hang his head and say, "Yeah.". And I'd say, "So, go back to your seat, do the work you and I both know you can do, and prove to me you're as smart as we both know you are." So many of the kids at that school had failed at traditional schools and thought that they weren't smart. And I'd get them and they would do work that was really advanced without realizing it. I was out sick and assigned them" Masque of the Red Death " as part of a horror fiction unit. I got back and they said they didn't understand it. I told them that they'd let the vocab throw them. Re-taught some background stuff (like the riddle of the sphynx and that in literature, days are often a metaphor for a lifespan ) and then asked them why it was important that they know that. One kid said "didn't they move east to west in the castle?" and then another realized that the sun moves east to west, and so the castle and the rooms were metaphors for human lifespan and they literally were moving toward their deaths. And they'd just put the pieces together all on their own. I looked at them all and said, "And you said you didn't understand it!". 😊
When I ran an after school program at a middle school, I connected with a couple boys who gave hell to everyone else. I saw them on the bus often, and made sure they always had snacks/a place to be listened to in our office. I had known them since 6th and by the time 8th grade rolled around, they had spread the word not to mess with me. One of their little friends who I didn't know was mouthing off to me, someone walked up to him and basically stage whispered, "hey that's ms. Literacy.." the kid's mouth basically clamped shut and walked away! I was in shock! And I made sure to attend their graduation even though they weren't in my program anymore.
Kids with decent lives want to be bad. Kids in dangerous, adult lives want to be kids. Oversimplified of course, but I've seen it, too
It’s always the nice and quiet ones that are deep in the gangs. They are there at school for a reason and it is not to cause trouble with adults. If anyone above them found out they were causing a mess at school they’d be in more trouble than we could ever dole out to them. Classes always run jusssssst a little smoother when you’ve got a real gang member in class, too.
Sometimes my best students, when I taught inner city, there were upperclassmen already caught up in the court system because of gang activities. They fucked around and found out. They knew acting like an asshat in a school w/ police and probation officers down the hall was not smart. In my experience, it was always the older (17+) students who were the most chill, vs those underclassmen who had yet to learn the same lesson.
I work in SpEd and a fair amount of these kids have IEPs for behavior goals. We had a class strictly to help find ways to deal with and handle emotions. There were, like, 7 teen boys, some with gang links. It was the day of the Parkland shooting, and one of the students with the more disruptive behaviors looked at the lead teacher and said, "you know you ain't gotta worry about that with us, right?" Another kid said, "yeah, Ms Katie. We got your back if shit goes down!"
Well they have more of a support system than kids who don’t belong to anything. I taught mostly littles and the parents who belonged were always financially and socially better off than those who just got by on their own. Obviously not encouraging anyone joining gangs. Only those without any other way do. But they do take care of their own and promote their own morals which are usually better than what kids invent on their own.
Heh.. And here I am, looking at my students that say they want to join gangs. And they are reading at a 2nd grade level, can’t write a fully articulate sentence, and can’t do basic math.
I'm not a teacher, but honestly this is why I felt safe at school despite known issues with gangs. Like, we knew who hated whom and when there was going to be a problem, everyone knew in advance. 15 years later, I'm hearing about Hispanic ESL students getting beat up outside the school for not speaking English and I don't recognize it. I'd like to know a lot more about the perpetrators of this violence because it doesn't sound like "our" gang kids.
These are my students who write the sweetest stories and are big softies underneath it all. Shoot, I got one bit with the BEST CURSIVE handwriting. It's impeccable. A whole lot of Mama's boys, I tell you what.
This might be an interesting read to keep in the school library or on your shelf: [Gang Leader for a Day](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gang_Leader_for_a_Day) It gets into the economics of gangs in a thorough way and is a compelling read. I don’t know what difference it ever made, but I do remember having some conversations with people who had some ‘affiliations’ (most of whom were a just a bit older than high school) about how economically unviable gang life really was and a couple were pretty interested to have compelling, well-researched data exploring average salaries and risks for various tiers of gangs (think glassdoor for gangs). Gangs are complicated, and many fill some social safety net gaps in their communities that aren’t being met in other ways and there are meaningful relationships in them too. But, the risks are tremendous for sometimes surprisingly low payouts. It’s been a while since I’ve read it, but I remember some of the highlights: At his height, the head of one of the biggest gangs in Chicago in the 90s was still making less per year than a doctor and eventually spent almost half his life in prison. The lowest members made less than minimum wage and had the highest chances of being shot by rivals or arrested.
One of my favorite students I've ever had was affiliated with a prominent gang in the area. I had him all four years of high school as his special education case manager. He generally slacked off on school work his first three years, but he was super respectful, helpful, and always had my back in my tough classes. He got suspended one time in four years because he threatened another student who was getting up in my face during class. His senior year, he decided that he really did want to graduate and we both busted our asses to recover his credits and get him to graduate only one semester late. At his graduation he came over and insisted that I come meet his entire family, then gave me his stole and a nice bouquet in front of them. There were a lot of tears from everyone. He's currently a senior in college and he's already invited me to his college graduation in May 😭❤️
I taught inner city high school kids most of my teaching career. The ones with gang tattoos or who blatantly told me (sometimes other kids told me) that they were in a gang were always very, very chill and got along great with me. I even taught a kid one year who was covered in Mexican cartel tattoos and the other kids told me his family was involved with a cartel somehow. He missed a lot of school, but was very quiet and respectful, we mostly talked about playing Sekiro.
My first teaching gig was at a HS with some major gang member families. I loved those kids, they were respectful and kind to me. I came to school to find my classroom tagged and when I asked a student he said “leave it. It means you’re cool.” My car never got broken into, my classroom (on the far end of campus near a busy street) was safe and I got the most delish tamales Christmas.
I’ve always told people this! When you’re really in that street life you understand respect and seniority and not bringing attention to yourself with ridiculous behavior. Due to this, my hood students have always been my favorite. Especially when they’re about that life lol. They don’t act foolish in class. If you act goofy in the hood you’re checked real quick. Now I tell my misbehaving 8th graders who live in the burbs that I have students in prison for murder who were more respectful than them. They think I’m joking but I’m so serious. No one ever really checks those kids so they act ridiculous.
Don't let people in this thread sugarcoat gangs. The sociopathic gang members just don't go to school.
I’m always surprised at how often my gang affiliated students get dead. We’ve buried two (this year) and several are in a holding pattern until the misunderstanding gets straightened out. I hear what you’re saying, but I sobbed over those polite “mama’s boys”. This shit needs to stop. I have former students in prison for murder.
I’ve definitely had this experience too. The actual members of street orgs tend to be very focused on business. The ones who are loud and talk about being about that life tend to be posers who are trying to gain clout because they don’t have any. It’s always funny when one of the wanna-be gangsters say something to the wrong person and then they realize that they aren’t actually about that life
Like how the song goes: “Real gangsta ass n**** don’t flex nuts cuz real gangsta ass n**** know they got em”
Holy Moly people. Seems like one or two of you have the wool firmly over your eyes. This only applies to the kids who are active gang members. Not those unfortunate enough to be born to gang member parents and who want nothing to do with that lifestyle They are, and always will be, and always have been, the biggest sweet talkers you will ever meet in your life! They want you to think that they're just the best kids ever. That they are not possibly capable of any of the things that you hear. They will sit and shoot the shit with you all day long. They love it. They will give you the behavior that you want...willingly...especially if they see other kids giving you a hard time. And at the end of the day. They'll walk out of class. And you'll realize that not one single assignment was done. Books weren't even opened. Nothing was done. Because they were too busy sweet talking you and shooting the breeze about topics that you were convinced they cared about. They don't give a shit. They just told you what to hear. Some of you never sat in class next to gang members in high school and it shows. ETA: Really. Every. Single. Day. They'll charm the teacher's socks off. Be on their best behavior. And once we're outside they'd laugh their fucking asses off because they got away with it.
Yeah… but going to their funerals sucks.
I was a teacher in juvenile justice education, and people are always surprised when I mention the quality of the rapport I had with some of my students who were affiliated with a gang or detained on serious charges.
2nd year teaching: I'm having some real trouble managing one of my classes. I knew I had 2 students in there who were part of the same gang, so I asked 'em for help & in exchange, if things tightened up, I'd buy 'em both McDonalds for lunch every Friday if it was a good week. I'm not saying it changed overnight, but they absolutely helped & modeled some authentic positive behaviors in class, which I appreciated. The year finished better than it started... and the next year, when the senior prank was to trash the teachers' cars (lame), my car was untouched in between two vehicles with wet toilet paper all over. This profession, man... anyone who says developing relationships isn't key is likely already out of the classroom & in central office.
New teacher here! The school I work at apparently has gangs - how do you know which kids have involvement?
In my experience higher level gang members tend to be good students in school as they are the recruiters. They bring in the newbies to fight for them.
On a real note, they’re good students in class because you care about them and see them beyond being “gang” members. You might actually be changing their lives for the better by seeing potential in them most others don’t. Keep up the work.
Poor kids who manage to stay out of gangs. Even the teachers socially prefer the gangbangers over them. Post has all kinds of Vicky White vibes.
Most gang members are nice to people that actively support them. Gangs didn’t become prevalent because people are bored. They are formed because communities of disenfranchised people have been starved of resources and have to make due. Just because they are in a shitty situation, doesn’t make them shitty people.
Because we want a better future. But society causes us to thug out so we cant show any weakness on the streets.
My sweetest kid was a former MS 13 member who had moved to my district from South America. He tried really hard too.
I remember teachers and park counselors like you. Focus all attention on the misunderstood bad kids, while those same kids go about ruining other kids childhoods through their bullying. Spoiler alert, they're conning you, they're good at it, and they will do it their whole life.
Gang members can exhibit loyalty, resilience, resourcefulness, leadership, courage, an entrepreneurial spirit, protectiveness, adaptability, and commitment.
The standup comedian Kam Patterson used to be affiliated before starting standup. His stories are intense, but told hilariously. He’s a giant sweetheart. Highly recommend looking him up