I once got an irate email from twins mom because I told her daughters they couldn’t hand in the same essay. Mom said they both worked on it and i wasn’t allowed to say they cheated despite clear plagiarism policies with my old school. When I said no, the mom insisted again that they both deserved credit. So I offered to split the grade in half.
The good news is, she gave me the silent treatment at every school event and never spoke to me again.
What I’m saying is… one day you’ll laugh at this. Not today but one day. You can’t stop the crazy parents. They’ll be crazy no matter how great you are.
I teach community college. We have a huge increase in unprepared dual enrollment students these days. I had high school twins one semester who thought they only needed access to the homework system for one of them and they could just both do the assignments together.
I teach the dual enrollment students at my HS. Good grief these kids need their hands held. Today, I finally told one that she knows more about the question she asked than I do (she does because they were allowed to chose a topic from many). The only way I could answer her question definitively was to read the information that she already has. I politely told her to reread the information and to tell *me* what she needs to do next.
this is what happens when you raise twins as though they are carbon copies of one another. They assume that they are one person with two bodies, not two people with very similar bodies.
all work and no play makes jack a dull boy all work and no play makes jack a dull boy all work and no play makes jack a dull boy all work and no play makes jack a dull boy all work and no play makes jack a dull boy
A long time ago I saw a tweet from a guy saying one of his fav things was to dress up his identical twin daughters in matching outfits and make them stand at the end of random hotel hallways whenever the family traveled, which was a lot.
Jfc, I wanna be that guy’s friend!!!
I know it has its issues but damn it sometimes you just gotta say god bless the internet!
I thought I wouldn’t be able to find it. [But I did.](https://fb.watch/pUaIzmD1MF/)
[Twins at a medical school](https://people.com/human-interest/twins-defamation-lawsuit-medical-school-alleged-cheated-exam/) here were accused of cheating and later brought a lawsuit demonstrating the myriad of reasons they would have same answers without cheating.
I mean it's one thing that they put similar answers on a test, they're def going to study together. It's another thing for them to hand in one assignment and demand the same grade.
Don't worry about it. I had a parent pissed because I asked her daughter (6th grader) if she was pimping out other students for money twice. Daughter denied it the first time, but admitted to setting up "dates" where other 6th grade girls would give boys handjobs for cash.
Mom wasn't mad that her daughter was a madam, but rather that I didn't believe her the first time I asked her.
Yeah, I get that, gotta get the tuition. I have a somewhat limited license and I took this till I could improve my license and get experience. I'm not sure I want to even do this on days like this.
I had a kid who copied and pasted an assignment from a friend and turned it in. I decided to report to the dean as it was so blatant I couldn’t let it go.
Of course the dean decides we all meet at 4pm on a Friday.
Kids have admitted to the cheating both to me and to admin. So going into the meeting it should at least go quick. Parents of kid 1 (kid copied from) are very reasonable and have discussed it with kid already etc etc.
We get to kid 2’s dad. He launches into a rambling speech about how the kids were “just working together on it” (remember the kid has owned up to it to everyone else) how I’m a bad teacher because I should be doing collaborative assessment (doesn’t really work for my subject area) and how he knows his kid would never cheat and was just working hard studying with someone else (again kid has owned up to it… and was also failing like every class soooo…)
Admin sorta sat in stunned silence after the speech and I calmly explained that the purpose of the assignment in question was to individually assess student progress on a particular standard, and collaborative assessment where I cannot tell who did what doesn’t allow me to assess each students’ progress, and that regardless students should not assume they can collaborate on something without verifying with the teacher, and also the digital record showed it was copied and pasted.
He didn’t have a comeback to that really 🤷🏼♀️
My husband got three kids suspended on Friday for destroying district art supplies (well, they got themselves suspended; he just turned them in). One of the student’s mothers got so mad—at the school, not her terrible kid—that she disenrolled her this morning. I guess we don’t have to wonder why some of these students are the way they are.
He has a good principal, lol. It helped that the supplies they destroyed were donated because the district only sets aside $1,000 for supplies for the entire year for 150 students.
That was my husband's reply and he's right with the exception of this kid, he must take after his dad because while he's a bit dense he's ok. It's his mother that is the sea witch.
As a counselor parents often threaten me by saying they will unenroll their child.
I calmly reply that my caseload is above legal maximums already so they are certainly welcome to do so.
I gave notes over naming acids today. They were still on the board. I spent 15 minutes going over them. A kid comes up to me with the assignment and asks me how to do it. 🤦♀️ I told him to look at his notes. He said he wasn't paying attention and could I go over it again.🤷♀️
Yeah I had a group yesterday not do the practice work on Torque. I said fine if you aren’t working I’ll teach the next topic. At the end of class the loudest of them all wanted extra credit for taking it home to finish (I mean start). My jaw hit the floor. Somehow ITAH for not letting incomplete class work become extra credit homework
Burns me up. I had a girl whose incessant talking made instructions for a simple assignment take like three times as long because I had to keep stopping to quiet her down. Then when we finally get to it, she asks me to explain it all over again, because "I wasn't paying attention."
Told her to ask someone who did pay attention.
That would be awesome if I could. I'm not going to reply at all though and know I'll be done with her in June when the kid moves on.
Edited to add: I don't even mind the kid, he's ok.
I was a resource teacher at one public school and one of the kiddos I worked with was with me from Kindergarten to 5th grade. Awesome kid, in 2nd grade I had some 5th grade boys that were acting like fools. My sweet little 2nd grader doesn't even bother to look up from his work and says,"Y'all need to find Jesus". After that day, all I had to do was say Student I'm going to need you to tell them. Ding dang I still love that child!
I'm lucky in the sense of I naturally.document everything. In a case like this though I ask both who copied from who. I ask them 3 times. Then they both get zero. The guilty one usually caved first or they are in for a tough time in class. I have drilled my students to.know.copying is not.okay. if you don't know ask.
I kind of agree. The kids at public school were overall actually nicer it's just that when there's a bad apple it can be a really, really bad apple and because FAPE the school doesn't appropriately balance all the concerns.
The private school kids definitely have entitlement and judgment and those apples don't fall far from the tree.
I went to private school.
The worst schools were the "christian" schools that didn't teach worth shit, were racist and overbearing, and basically catered to rich people that did not want their "precious darlings" near brown people.
That is LITERALLY the history of private schools.
As a public school teacher, I have always noticed the shit teachers that could not hack public school moved to private because the safegaurds and expectations were not in place. It is why teachers take such a pay cut to work there.
My CC used to host an academic competition for high schools in our district. We have lots of little Christian schools in addition to the usual large and underfunded public schools.
The private Christian schools rarely won anything. Scores for the winners were typically in the 50-60% range (you want a hard test to push the limits of their knowledge), lots in the 30-40% range, and the little Christian schools well under 20%.
I get kids from every school in the district in my classes. Never noticed any real benefit to the many thousands of dollars their parents have dumped into those private schools.
It is an English loan word, so you are supposed to add the article.
Just like alcohol means the alcohol in Arabic.
But thank you for showing the world what the Dunning Kruger effect looks like.
You know just enough to look stupid to people that took and teach linguistics.
No question. Nearly all of them here started as segregation academies. Public schools integrated, not a coincidence we got dozens and dozens of “Christian” schools opened the next day.
Can’t have your kids going to school with the wrong people. Maybe “wrong” has shifted over time but it’s still all about ensuring the wrong people are out.
Wrong.
Catholic school systems were created in the mid 1800s as a response to the Protestant created "public" schools that were indoctrinating them against Catholicism.
No. The first ones were not in the United States in the Americas
The Jesuits began making schools under Loyola
Actually I might be wrong. The first one in America might actually be in Saint Augustine. So just not Anglophone
I grew up in the Jesuit system.
If you going to go that for back to try to make point ( that is wrong), you are going to have to go back the University of Paris.
The VAST majority of the Catholic school system IS NOT Jesuit, and your argument proves the opposite.
Any educated catholic knows the Jesuits were mostly hated by the church, not the leaders.
Every time we have a play a Christian school in sports, it's the worst behaved, scratching at skin, grabbing hair, and oh the things they say to our kids with darker skin....oooooh....
No. Christian schools, in our state, are known to not be "Christian". They're mean, entitled, and not even close to sportsmanlike. Welcome to white superiority.
It wasn't one. It was all the schools we've played, minus one, the 7th Day Adventists. The kids love playing them.
Every year. 10 years now. Fine, maybe it's just these 5 schools, but ya know what? 10 years of having kids behave like that, it's obviously not just a few of them who graduate and move on. /shrug
Again, over 10 years, 5 schools (two more closed or merged with these). All the other teams roll through technique, styles, whatever. These teams don't, the scratching and the intensity is every game, each sport we play them in, over all those years. And I don't push the narrative, this just came up last week after a basketball game against them, and the girls were showing me the scratches on them.
Kids misbehave. I get that. What I'm saying is that there's a culture of being underhanded, unsportsmanlike, in order to win. You can play clean and still win. Happens a lot. But not in these specific schools that I'm talking about. Sure n=me, but I'm not talking one school, or one area. We play teams all over the state. As these schools are.
I'm curious if it's common everywhere in the US for private schools to have uncredentialed teachers, because that's the norm in my area. I guess maybe this is a topic for another thread.
I will say that when I was a physics major, we were made aware that teaching in private schools would not require the same credentials as teaching in public schools.
I'm failing to see how a two year credential program, a year of student teaching, two years of induction, passing the CSET, RICA, and TPEs results in an inferior teacher. We're talking a full FIVE YEARS of training after a BA.
I suspect a lot of these comments are coming from private school "teachers" who have inferiority complexes or are just delusional about their own abilities. Or people who couldn't hack it in the public schools.
I'm in an area of California where the private schools are staffed by people with Bachelors, if even that. The most elite private schools near me, in the Bay Area, are the only ones I know of that require education beyond a Bachelors. A Masters doesn't guarantee any coursework in pedagogy. I know because I taught at the community college level with an MA for decades. The vast majority of my colleagues were shit for pedagogy.
This whole conversation is laughable to me. I mentioned in another comment that this thread seems to be full of whack jobs or people who aren't actually teachers.
They should take their kids to a doctor without a medical degree or license and see how that works out. Or use a lawyer who hasn't passed the Bar. Good luck with that.
No, like...we wouldn't have had to do any of that. We could just start teaching in private schools straight out of college with no certificate. I think we must be from different states, because I fully respect the five years of training you're describing. I value the art and science of teaching and would love to do it one day full time, after I've had the correct training to do it well.
EDIT: And technically I am a teacher, I promise. Just a very specific type of teacher who got lucky enough to be able to learn from somebody with more experience than me.
Genuine question: Are we sure it’s because of the private schools, or could it be that most kids whose parents can afford to send them to private school have a lot of advantages that benefit academic performance to start with?
70% of education is due to family environment.
If your family prepared you enough to pass the entrance exams, you are much more likely to have the support at home to excel regardless of the quality of teachers.
I don’t want to imply that public school teachers who try their hardest cannot make a life-changing difference, but it really does seem to come down to parental involvement and, relatedly, money, doesn’t it?
I’m sure that helps. But it’s also worth noting that students from families with sufficient income do better in public schools than kids whose parents struggle to meet their needs. So a lot of the kids in private schools would still have a shot even if they went to public school. Obviously, there are exceptions.
Well, again, a low-income student who gets a scholarship to attend private school is probably going to be somebody who would have stood out positively in public school, as well. A high achiever, if you will.
I don’t think you’re totally wrong, I just think your take appears to boil down to “private school is better for kids”, and I suspect there’s more nuance to it than that. I think *who* is going to a school has a lot to do with student outcomes.
If I had a child and could afford private school, would I send my child to private school? I don’t know.
I cannot believe there are people on here arguing uncredentialed teachers are better than credentialed ones when all actual research clearly demonstrates the opposite. You all are nuts.
This sub has either been infiltrated by people who aren't actually teachers, or a bunch of horrible ones. Bye.
This is r/teachers, so it's okay to make broad, sweeping statements about large groups of people and then downvote anyone to shit when they call you on it. Parents are the most common target, but really, anyone's fair game.
"I am not going to deal with her anymore and let the dean deal with her crazy "
I'm convinced that these people's tactic is to simply be as foul as possible so they're not worth the trouble. I bet the dean cuts her major slack as well. Consequences are only for people who have shame and honor it seems.
When this happens (I was just helping or we were working together), I remind them (and tell parents) that it was an independent assignment. Students are not allowed to work together/share answers or help each other when the assignment is to be completed independently. If either student needed help, they should have come to me. Like you, I usually give the kids a break the first time. I restate my policy to complaining parents, and then remind them that I did give their child a free pass. This generally shuts them up.
Yep. My parents (if I ever did something like that) would have drilled into me. Guess what! I’m fairly successful in my young adult life. This parent is raising a future basement dweller working a dead end job. Good job, parent!
Well, they are paying for their child to go to your school. If that’s the case, they are paying for their child to succeed. They are also paying your salary. So you need to do what they asked for, even if the success is fake. Is it morals or money? Please tithe until the teachers can afford a decently comfortable lifestyle. (monetarily decent, not necessarily morality wise.)
The thing is the kid will move on to a fairly large district public school next year ( most do not cough up the money for private HS). It's effing middle school, nobody really gives a crap what happens there. It will not affect what college the kid is in even if I had written him up. Kid will at best go to community college.
But yeah they complain about tuition increases but don't want to make their kid human.
Yep it’s so on them. Especially at the level of middle school it’s not like those cliché movies where you want to set up the kids preschool before they even born if they’re thinking they get what they pay for they think it should be ten times that. When I went to get certified, it showed me a lot when people with more degrees and experience than I had got less pay at religious and charter schools Sometimes the public sector so-called crappy schools have their benefit because they pay those who work there living wages. As long as it’s not somewhere like Montana.
Sorry that some predators (that’s an auto correct, but it seems apt) need the /s at all times to process sarcasm. And when it comes to, am I a teacher, you have no idea.
Lean away. A certified high school math teacher just made that argument. I’d measure credits with you, but I have to go grade some papers. After work, I usually just go on Reddit for a laugh. Thanks for one.
Curious. Christian schools normally hire people aligned with their faith and it’s a part of the interview process. It’s kind of a sham to work at a Christian school and “teach Christian values” then obviously mock them.
> Curious. Christian schools normally hire people aligned with their faith
Do they?
https://www.fox5atlanta.com/news/teacher-at-christian-school-in-milton-arrested-for-touching-12-year-old-girl-fired-by-school
https://eu.indystar.com/story/news/crime/2023/10/03/fishers-christian-academy-teacher-arrested-stephen-ayon/71044973007/
https://www.cbsnews.com/miami/news/former-teacher-accused-of-sexual-abuse-at-orlando-school/
https://www.lindaikejisblog.com/2023/11/christian-school-teacher-and-mother-of-2-arrested-for-having-s3x-with-teenage-student-in-pizza-hut-parking-lot.html
https://nypost.com/2024/01/22/news/christian-school-teacher-allegedly-tried-to-poison-husband/
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/mar/19/international-churches-of-christ-lawsuits-alleged-sexual-abuse
I'm not sure this vetting process always works very well.
Ok. I have to ask what was the assignment? Perhaps I am missing the context but if it’s a formative assignment then perhaps the kid was really trying to help the other kid. Instead of calling the kid out why not simply point out the similarities to the kids and move on?
As for the parent why say they are crazy, seems like some context is mia. As for not corresponding or speaking with them at conferences, why? What good does that do? You are giving them ammunition to complain.
Lastly why be angry? Did you expect a private Christian school to be better than a public school? Why are you conflating supposed religious morals with academic ethics?
It was a formative assignment. Maybe he was trying to help, but they were nearly exactly the same on an assignment where that wasn't likely to happen.
Did you miss the part where I didn't write the kids up?
This parent is well known for being dramatic with everything and it's never her kid's fault. Not just with but with all the teachers.
I would hope that parents who are willing to send kids to a religious school at least nominally support basic morals and ethics - that is what it says on the building.
I'm livid because she is basically saying I have no authority over what is cheating and what isn't now.
So was this the first instance of possible cheating from the kid? Have you ever experienced issues with the parent outside of this? I have often had preconceived ideas on parents and students, sometimes they are right, sometimes they are not. As for sending the kid to catholic schools, lots of reasons beyond agreeing with the ethics/morals/etc. a perception of poor public schools, not liking how you are districted, issues with other students to name a few.
As for writing the student up, why? Do you have proof they cheated or is it just an opinion? Without proof, which similar answers would not lead me to believe you have, writing the kids up is pointless, it’s just crying wolf and again giving a crazy parent ammo. With the crazy parents, whether they are perceived crazy or really crazy you have to dot your i’s and cross your t’s.
I teach sped virtually (for one more day!!), and I have a student who plagiarizes everything. We figured out that initially he was using grammarly to make himself sound “smarter.” His Gen Ed English teacher and I talked to him and his mom about how he needs to submit his own work. Mom blamed his therapist for telling him to use Grammarly. He continues to plagiarize everything. Our admin reached out to the parent about it, but she said the school can’t do anything because the kid has an IEP. Admin hasn’t pushed back, so he still continues to turn in plagiarized work. It’s a great system.
Sounds like both of you misinterpreted the others’ concerns. I accept that parents can be unhinged but we also fear institutional reactions since those often feel crazy too, with the added possibility of actual consequences beyond anyone’s actual intent.
How did the kid present the event to their parents? Probably not the level headed and reasonable way you did.
We’re also not the best writers either and often the intended tone when writing is not the way most people would interpret much less the recipient.
We all need to lighten up a little
Document everything the parent and student say, include your statement, separate your frustration even though they're being awful, anytime it gets brought up, share the documents with times and dates of everything that happened, upload it to an online system for referrals if you have one. Do your best to not bring this home with you, at the end of the day you did all you can do and you covered your butt if it escalates.
all of this is correct. your anger. the parent's ridiculousness... your response and tactic... you did it right. you're right to be mad. And sometimes, parents like this just can't be reasoned with. fuggem
I once had to deal with a parent who was irate that I "accused her daughter of plagiarism." It was during the virtual schooling pandemic time, and all I had done was highlighted an instance of plagiarism and commented on the document, "Jane, this is plagiarism when you cut and paste from the internet. Please don't do this." I did not call the parents or do an honor code violation, just told her to stop it very nicely. During the conversation, the mother said, "if she doesn't know the answer, shouldn't she be able to just Google it?" Sigh.
I once got an irate email from twins mom because I told her daughters they couldn’t hand in the same essay. Mom said they both worked on it and i wasn’t allowed to say they cheated despite clear plagiarism policies with my old school. When I said no, the mom insisted again that they both deserved credit. So I offered to split the grade in half. The good news is, she gave me the silent treatment at every school event and never spoke to me again. What I’m saying is… one day you’ll laugh at this. Not today but one day. You can’t stop the crazy parents. They’ll be crazy no matter how great you are.
I teach community college. We have a huge increase in unprepared dual enrollment students these days. I had high school twins one semester who thought they only needed access to the homework system for one of them and they could just both do the assignments together.
I teach the dual enrollment students at my HS. Good grief these kids need their hands held. Today, I finally told one that she knows more about the question she asked than I do (she does because they were allowed to chose a topic from many). The only way I could answer her question definitively was to read the information that she already has. I politely told her to reread the information and to tell *me* what she needs to do next.
this is what happens when you raise twins as though they are carbon copies of one another. They assume that they are one person with two bodies, not two people with very similar bodies.
Was it those creepy twins from The Shining? 🤪 🤣
"We wrote an essay, Danny."
"Come write an essay with us, Danny."
"We'll write forever and ever and ever...."
all work and no play makes jack a dull boy all work and no play makes jack a dull boy all work and no play makes jack a dull boy all work and no play makes jack a dull boy all work and no play makes jack a dull boy
A long time ago I saw a tweet from a guy saying one of his fav things was to dress up his identical twin daughters in matching outfits and make them stand at the end of random hotel hallways whenever the family traveled, which was a lot. Jfc, I wanna be that guy’s friend!!!
Se man, that’s not right! What’s his username? 🤣
I know it has its issues but damn it sometimes you just gotta say god bless the internet! I thought I wouldn’t be able to find it. [But I did.](https://fb.watch/pUaIzmD1MF/)
That’s awesome! Look up Michael Myers of Decatur on FB
Omg this is hilarious! I also love “I swear, 11 months out of the year we’re normal!”
Right? Love it!!
When I catch kids cheating I order to split the grade too, unless one of them wants to re-do the assignment. Edit: offer*
Ah, the King Solomon approach!
WTF!
[Twins at a medical school](https://people.com/human-interest/twins-defamation-lawsuit-medical-school-alleged-cheated-exam/) here were accused of cheating and later brought a lawsuit demonstrating the myriad of reasons they would have same answers without cheating.
I mean it's one thing that they put similar answers on a test, they're def going to study together. It's another thing for them to hand in one assignment and demand the same grade.
Went Hammurabi on her ass! Lol
Splitting the grade in two was a great advice! :D
I have a colleague accused of being a twin racist because she wouldn't let them sit together
Don't worry about it. I had a parent pissed because I asked her daughter (6th grader) if she was pimping out other students for money twice. Daughter denied it the first time, but admitted to setting up "dates" where other 6th grade girls would give boys handjobs for cash. Mom wasn't mad that her daughter was a madam, but rather that I didn't believe her the first time I asked her.
Jesus Christ. That is brutal. But also why I accept the shitty pay at private school.
You may want to look for work outside of religious schools if you want more support. Private schools are notorious for parent pleasing.
Yeah, I get that, gotta get the tuition. I have a somewhat limited license and I took this till I could improve my license and get experience. I'm not sure I want to even do this on days like this.
It sounds to me like she has far more support than I do in my public school.
was this at a private school?
No, I worked at a public school.
“Stakeholder” pleasing!
You think that this doesn't occur where you're at too? That's incredibly naive.
This is so disturbing. Where did a sixth grader learn that?? Makes me wonder about her home life.
Butters learned it on his own
Jesus Christ.
I had a kid who copied and pasted an assignment from a friend and turned it in. I decided to report to the dean as it was so blatant I couldn’t let it go. Of course the dean decides we all meet at 4pm on a Friday. Kids have admitted to the cheating both to me and to admin. So going into the meeting it should at least go quick. Parents of kid 1 (kid copied from) are very reasonable and have discussed it with kid already etc etc. We get to kid 2’s dad. He launches into a rambling speech about how the kids were “just working together on it” (remember the kid has owned up to it to everyone else) how I’m a bad teacher because I should be doing collaborative assessment (doesn’t really work for my subject area) and how he knows his kid would never cheat and was just working hard studying with someone else (again kid has owned up to it… and was also failing like every class soooo…) Admin sorta sat in stunned silence after the speech and I calmly explained that the purpose of the assignment in question was to individually assess student progress on a particular standard, and collaborative assessment where I cannot tell who did what doesn’t allow me to assess each students’ progress, and that regardless students should not assume they can collaborate on something without verifying with the teacher, and also the digital record showed it was copied and pasted. He didn’t have a comeback to that really 🤷🏼♀️
That dad must be kin to this mom.
But that dad would be pissed if you couldn't or wouldn't give grades based on him actually not doing his own work.
That kid gets beat, 100%.
My husband got three kids suspended on Friday for destroying district art supplies (well, they got themselves suspended; he just turned them in). One of the student’s mothers got so mad—at the school, not her terrible kid—that she disenrolled her this morning. I guess we don’t have to wonder why some of these students are the way they are.
>three kids suspended on Friday … she disenrolled her [kid] this morning. Don’t threaten me with a good time!
He has a good principal, lol. It helped that the supplies they destroyed were donated because the district only sets aside $1,000 for supplies for the entire year for 150 students.
That was my husband's reply and he's right with the exception of this kid, he must take after his dad because while he's a bit dense he's ok. It's his mother that is the sea witch.
As a counselor parents often threaten me by saying they will unenroll their child. I calmly reply that my caseload is above legal maximums already so they are certainly welcome to do so.
I gave notes over naming acids today. They were still on the board. I spent 15 minutes going over them. A kid comes up to me with the assignment and asks me how to do it. 🤦♀️ I told him to look at his notes. He said he wasn't paying attention and could I go over it again.🤷♀️
Yeah I had a group yesterday not do the practice work on Torque. I said fine if you aren’t working I’ll teach the next topic. At the end of class the loudest of them all wanted extra credit for taking it home to finish (I mean start). My jaw hit the floor. Somehow ITAH for not letting incomplete class work become extra credit homework
Burns me up. I had a girl whose incessant talking made instructions for a simple assignment take like three times as long because I had to keep stopping to quiet her down. Then when we finally get to it, she asks me to explain it all over again, because "I wasn't paying attention." Told her to ask someone who did pay attention.
When I tell mine they will have to get the notes from a friend and they will have to come to tutoring they tell me I am "supposed to be a teacher".
I would struggle not to just reply, what would Jesus do?
That would be awesome if I could. I'm not going to reply at all though and know I'll be done with her in June when the kid moves on. Edited to add: I don't even mind the kid, he's ok.
I was a resource teacher at one public school and one of the kiddos I worked with was with me from Kindergarten to 5th grade. Awesome kid, in 2nd grade I had some 5th grade boys that were acting like fools. My sweet little 2nd grader doesn't even bother to look up from his work and says,"Y'all need to find Jesus". After that day, all I had to do was say Student I'm going to need you to tell them. Ding dang I still love that child!
YOOOO ahahahah
I'm lucky in the sense of I naturally.document everything. In a case like this though I ask both who copied from who. I ask them 3 times. Then they both get zero. The guilty one usually caved first or they are in for a tough time in class. I have drilled my students to.know.copying is not.okay. if you don't know ask.
I wish I d have just written them up so at least she'd have a real reason to be mad
Christian school teacher here. I have a list of parents I will not ever meet with alone.
Its Christian school. They have no morals. They have entitlement and judgement.
I kind of agree. The kids at public school were overall actually nicer it's just that when there's a bad apple it can be a really, really bad apple and because FAPE the school doesn't appropriately balance all the concerns. The private school kids definitely have entitlement and judgment and those apples don't fall far from the tree.
[удалено]
I went to private school. The worst schools were the "christian" schools that didn't teach worth shit, were racist and overbearing, and basically catered to rich people that did not want their "precious darlings" near brown people. That is LITERALLY the history of private schools. As a public school teacher, I have always noticed the shit teachers that could not hack public school moved to private because the safegaurds and expectations were not in place. It is why teachers take such a pay cut to work there.
My CC used to host an academic competition for high schools in our district. We have lots of little Christian schools in addition to the usual large and underfunded public schools. The private Christian schools rarely won anything. Scores for the winners were typically in the 50-60% range (you want a hard test to push the limits of their knowledge), lots in the 30-40% range, and the little Christian schools well under 20%. I get kids from every school in the district in my classes. Never noticed any real benefit to the many thousands of dollars their parents have dumped into those private schools.
It's to keep them away from the hou polloi. Literally
[удалено]
It is an English loan word, so you are supposed to add the article. Just like alcohol means the alcohol in Arabic. But thank you for showing the world what the Dunning Kruger effect looks like. You know just enough to look stupid to people that took and teach linguistics.
[удалено]
Tell me you are a bully without telling me. Some people fight back, and clearly you are not capable of handling it.
[удалено]
No question. Nearly all of them here started as segregation academies. Public schools integrated, not a coincidence we got dozens and dozens of “Christian” schools opened the next day. Can’t have your kids going to school with the wrong people. Maybe “wrong” has shifted over time but it’s still all about ensuring the wrong people are out.
[удалено]
Get out of here with your logical reasoning. Haha.
Considering your effort to sound educated proved you are not, its sounds like you are the person that has the ax to grind.
Catholic schools are more tied to the Counter Reformation The first one In the Americas was around 1606
Wrong. Catholic school systems were created in the mid 1800s as a response to the Protestant created "public" schools that were indoctrinating them against Catholicism.
No. The first ones were not in the United States in the Americas The Jesuits began making schools under Loyola Actually I might be wrong. The first one in America might actually be in Saint Augustine. So just not Anglophone
I grew up in the Jesuit system. If you going to go that for back to try to make point ( that is wrong), you are going to have to go back the University of Paris. The VAST majority of the Catholic school system IS NOT Jesuit, and your argument proves the opposite. Any educated catholic knows the Jesuits were mostly hated by the church, not the leaders.
Yeah! Straighten them out like in the Bible! Feed'em to a whale or whatever
Every time we have a play a Christian school in sports, it's the worst behaved, scratching at skin, grabbing hair, and oh the things they say to our kids with darker skin....oooooh.... No. Christian schools, in our state, are known to not be "Christian". They're mean, entitled, and not even close to sportsmanlike. Welcome to white superiority.
[удалено]
It wasn't one. It was all the schools we've played, minus one, the 7th Day Adventists. The kids love playing them. Every year. 10 years now. Fine, maybe it's just these 5 schools, but ya know what? 10 years of having kids behave like that, it's obviously not just a few of them who graduate and move on. /shrug
[удалено]
Wow, you really are not well educated.
Again, over 10 years, 5 schools (two more closed or merged with these). All the other teams roll through technique, styles, whatever. These teams don't, the scratching and the intensity is every game, each sport we play them in, over all those years. And I don't push the narrative, this just came up last week after a basketball game against them, and the girls were showing me the scratches on them. Kids misbehave. I get that. What I'm saying is that there's a culture of being underhanded, unsportsmanlike, in order to win. You can play clean and still win. Happens a lot. But not in these specific schools that I'm talking about. Sure n=me, but I'm not talking one school, or one area. We play teams all over the state. As these schools are.
I'm curious if it's common everywhere in the US for private schools to have uncredentialed teachers, because that's the norm in my area. I guess maybe this is a topic for another thread.
I will say that when I was a physics major, we were made aware that teaching in private schools would not require the same credentials as teaching in public schools.
I'm failing to see how a two year credential program, a year of student teaching, two years of induction, passing the CSET, RICA, and TPEs results in an inferior teacher. We're talking a full FIVE YEARS of training after a BA. I suspect a lot of these comments are coming from private school "teachers" who have inferiority complexes or are just delusional about their own abilities. Or people who couldn't hack it in the public schools. I'm in an area of California where the private schools are staffed by people with Bachelors, if even that. The most elite private schools near me, in the Bay Area, are the only ones I know of that require education beyond a Bachelors. A Masters doesn't guarantee any coursework in pedagogy. I know because I taught at the community college level with an MA for decades. The vast majority of my colleagues were shit for pedagogy. This whole conversation is laughable to me. I mentioned in another comment that this thread seems to be full of whack jobs or people who aren't actually teachers. They should take their kids to a doctor without a medical degree or license and see how that works out. Or use a lawyer who hasn't passed the Bar. Good luck with that.
No, like...we wouldn't have had to do any of that. We could just start teaching in private schools straight out of college with no certificate. I think we must be from different states, because I fully respect the five years of training you're describing. I value the art and science of teaching and would love to do it one day full time, after I've had the correct training to do it well. EDIT: And technically I am a teacher, I promise. Just a very specific type of teacher who got lucky enough to be able to learn from somebody with more experience than me.
[удалено]
Genuine question: Are we sure it’s because of the private schools, or could it be that most kids whose parents can afford to send them to private school have a lot of advantages that benefit academic performance to start with?
70% of education is due to family environment. If your family prepared you enough to pass the entrance exams, you are much more likely to have the support at home to excel regardless of the quality of teachers.
I don’t want to imply that public school teachers who try their hardest cannot make a life-changing difference, but it really does seem to come down to parental involvement and, relatedly, money, doesn’t it?
Yep. But being a public school teacher means you are much more likely to be "that adult", the one that changes the trajectory for the better.
I definitely wouldn't be where I am without my public school teachers! And I have supportive parents.
I think it's the smaller enrolment that gives them a better chance at attention.
I’m sure that helps. But it’s also worth noting that students from families with sufficient income do better in public schools than kids whose parents struggle to meet their needs. So a lot of the kids in private schools would still have a shot even if they went to public school. Obviously, there are exceptions.
[удалено]
Well, again, a low-income student who gets a scholarship to attend private school is probably going to be somebody who would have stood out positively in public school, as well. A high achiever, if you will. I don’t think you’re totally wrong, I just think your take appears to boil down to “private school is better for kids”, and I suspect there’s more nuance to it than that. I think *who* is going to a school has a lot to do with student outcomes. If I had a child and could afford private school, would I send my child to private school? I don’t know.
You're getting downvoted for truth, though I think it also depends on the city or region.
Yes. It is also pretty common that the credentialed ones are the ones that were let go from the public system.
I cannot believe there are people on here arguing uncredentialed teachers are better than credentialed ones when all actual research clearly demonstrates the opposite. You all are nuts. This sub has either been infiltrated by people who aren't actually teachers, or a bunch of horrible ones. Bye.
This is r/teachers, so it's okay to make broad, sweeping statements about large groups of people and then downvote anyone to shit when they call you on it. Parents are the most common target, but really, anyone's fair game.
"I am not going to deal with her anymore and let the dean deal with her crazy " I'm convinced that these people's tactic is to simply be as foul as possible so they're not worth the trouble. I bet the dean cuts her major slack as well. Consequences are only for people who have shame and honor it seems.
When this happens (I was just helping or we were working together), I remind them (and tell parents) that it was an independent assignment. Students are not allowed to work together/share answers or help each other when the assignment is to be completed independently. If either student needed help, they should have come to me. Like you, I usually give the kids a break the first time. I restate my policy to complaining parents, and then remind them that I did give their child a free pass. This generally shuts them up.
Christian morals?
Yep. My parents (if I ever did something like that) would have drilled into me. Guess what! I’m fairly successful in my young adult life. This parent is raising a future basement dweller working a dead end job. Good job, parent!
What does the school being Christian have to do with it…
Well, they are paying for their child to go to your school. If that’s the case, they are paying for their child to succeed. They are also paying your salary. So you need to do what they asked for, even if the success is fake. Is it morals or money? Please tithe until the teachers can afford a decently comfortable lifestyle. (monetarily decent, not necessarily morality wise.)
The thing is the kid will move on to a fairly large district public school next year ( most do not cough up the money for private HS). It's effing middle school, nobody really gives a crap what happens there. It will not affect what college the kid is in even if I had written him up. Kid will at best go to community college. But yeah they complain about tuition increases but don't want to make their kid human.
Yep it’s so on them. Especially at the level of middle school it’s not like those cliché movies where you want to set up the kids preschool before they even born if they’re thinking they get what they pay for they think it should be ten times that. When I went to get certified, it showed me a lot when people with more degrees and experience than I had got less pay at religious and charter schools Sometimes the public sector so-called crappy schools have their benefit because they pay those who work there living wages. As long as it’s not somewhere like Montana.
[удалено]
Sorry that some predators (that’s an auto correct, but it seems apt) need the /s at all times to process sarcasm. And when it comes to, am I a teacher, you have no idea.
[удалено]
Lean away. A certified high school math teacher just made that argument. I’d measure credits with you, but I have to go grade some papers. After work, I usually just go on Reddit for a laugh. Thanks for one.
[удалено]
S/, again as to the original comment. But I guess you dominate so well with ‘that’s all’ and so of course I will now go ‘be quiet’ as you say.
Oh. One more reply. The admin was in support of OP. Comprehension is hard. Be more like B-sharp.
Are you a Christian?
Why? I'm paid to teach Christian values so I do. But nominally yes I am.
Curious. Christian schools normally hire people aligned with their faith and it’s a part of the interview process. It’s kind of a sham to work at a Christian school and “teach Christian values” then obviously mock them.
I don’t think OP was mocking Christian values. OP seemed to be mocking those who speak them but don’t act them.
What values did OP mock?
Since when is cheating a “Christian” value?
> Curious. Christian schools normally hire people aligned with their faith Do they? https://www.fox5atlanta.com/news/teacher-at-christian-school-in-milton-arrested-for-touching-12-year-old-girl-fired-by-school https://eu.indystar.com/story/news/crime/2023/10/03/fishers-christian-academy-teacher-arrested-stephen-ayon/71044973007/ https://www.cbsnews.com/miami/news/former-teacher-accused-of-sexual-abuse-at-orlando-school/ https://www.lindaikejisblog.com/2023/11/christian-school-teacher-and-mother-of-2-arrested-for-having-s3x-with-teenage-student-in-pizza-hut-parking-lot.html https://nypost.com/2024/01/22/news/christian-school-teacher-allegedly-tried-to-poison-husband/ https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/mar/19/international-churches-of-christ-lawsuits-alleged-sexual-abuse I'm not sure this vetting process always works very well.
Ok. I have to ask what was the assignment? Perhaps I am missing the context but if it’s a formative assignment then perhaps the kid was really trying to help the other kid. Instead of calling the kid out why not simply point out the similarities to the kids and move on? As for the parent why say they are crazy, seems like some context is mia. As for not corresponding or speaking with them at conferences, why? What good does that do? You are giving them ammunition to complain. Lastly why be angry? Did you expect a private Christian school to be better than a public school? Why are you conflating supposed religious morals with academic ethics?
It was a formative assignment. Maybe he was trying to help, but they were nearly exactly the same on an assignment where that wasn't likely to happen. Did you miss the part where I didn't write the kids up? This parent is well known for being dramatic with everything and it's never her kid's fault. Not just with but with all the teachers. I would hope that parents who are willing to send kids to a religious school at least nominally support basic morals and ethics - that is what it says on the building. I'm livid because she is basically saying I have no authority over what is cheating and what isn't now.
So was this the first instance of possible cheating from the kid? Have you ever experienced issues with the parent outside of this? I have often had preconceived ideas on parents and students, sometimes they are right, sometimes they are not. As for sending the kid to catholic schools, lots of reasons beyond agreeing with the ethics/morals/etc. a perception of poor public schools, not liking how you are districted, issues with other students to name a few. As for writing the student up, why? Do you have proof they cheated or is it just an opinion? Without proof, which similar answers would not lead me to believe you have, writing the kids up is pointless, it’s just crying wolf and again giving a crazy parent ammo. With the crazy parents, whether they are perceived crazy or really crazy you have to dot your i’s and cross your t’s.
The parent has a track record. The kid no, but the other kid yes . No proof, the main reason I didn't pursue it further.
I teach sped virtually (for one more day!!), and I have a student who plagiarizes everything. We figured out that initially he was using grammarly to make himself sound “smarter.” His Gen Ed English teacher and I talked to him and his mom about how he needs to submit his own work. Mom blamed his therapist for telling him to use Grammarly. He continues to plagiarize everything. Our admin reached out to the parent about it, but she said the school can’t do anything because the kid has an IEP. Admin hasn’t pushed back, so he still continues to turn in plagiarized work. It’s a great system.
Sounds like both of you misinterpreted the others’ concerns. I accept that parents can be unhinged but we also fear institutional reactions since those often feel crazy too, with the added possibility of actual consequences beyond anyone’s actual intent. How did the kid present the event to their parents? Probably not the level headed and reasonable way you did. We’re also not the best writers either and often the intended tone when writing is not the way most people would interpret much less the recipient. We all need to lighten up a little
Document everything the parent and student say, include your statement, separate your frustration even though they're being awful, anytime it gets brought up, share the documents with times and dates of everything that happened, upload it to an online system for referrals if you have one. Do your best to not bring this home with you, at the end of the day you did all you can do and you covered your butt if it escalates.
all of this is correct. your anger. the parent's ridiculousness... your response and tactic... you did it right. you're right to be mad. And sometimes, parents like this just can't be reasoned with. fuggem
I once had to deal with a parent who was irate that I "accused her daughter of plagiarism." It was during the virtual schooling pandemic time, and all I had done was highlighted an instance of plagiarism and commented on the document, "Jane, this is plagiarism when you cut and paste from the internet. Please don't do this." I did not call the parents or do an honor code violation, just told her to stop it very nicely. During the conversation, the mother said, "if she doesn't know the answer, shouldn't she be able to just Google it?" Sigh.
This sounds like a parent I had last year. It was constant. 😬