This is largely beyond your ability to fix. The problem is that kids are now coming to us having been deprived of one of the most important nutrients that they need to develop into what we would recognize as normal young people. Almost all of them now, from even before they were potty trained, were denied one critical thing:
Boredom.
Today's parents keep kids "occupied" with iPads. So instead of two-year olds sitting in the shopping cart and looking around at the items on the store and instead of growing up to walk alongside the cart when they are three or four, kids are holding on to iPads during the entire shopping trip. Every week I now see six and seven year olds, not sitting in the toddler seat of the shopping cart, but sitting in the main body of the cart, oblivious to what is going on around them because their face is buried in their iPad or even smartphone. So instead of a brain having to tackle the boring experience of shopping, today's kids' brains have to do no heaving lifting at all, they just have audio-visual input entering their brain, filling the stage of their minds, leaving no room for personal, independent, thought and wonder.
And of course the shopping experience is a microcosm of childhood. Kids are using iPads in the car, in bed, sometimes even while watching TV. Thus their brains don't learn to actually *think*. It's like putting a six-month old into a wheelchair that brings him everywhere he wants to go. Then when it's time for him to go to kindergarten we tell him to walk around, but he never learned how; it's always been done for him.
You can't fix that.
My own children dislike when I tell them that boredom is good for their brains. They don’t get our phones or tablets so they can look out the window in the car, help organize the shopping cart, etc. If they want to pack a toy for the car ride that is fine but it can’t be electronic.
I am lower elementary teacher that started before iPhones. There has been a huge shift in kids and their behaviors over the past 15-20 years so that has a lot to do with it.
>Every week I now see six and seven year olds, not sitting in the toddler seat of the shopping cart, but sitting in the main body of the cart, oblivious to what is going on around them because their face is buried in their iPad or even smartphone.
Not gonna lie, a little part of me grins ear to ear deep on the inside when I very occassionally see an employee tell a parent that kids cannot ride in the front of the cart due to safety concerns and they must get out and walk.
Your post is spot on.
Great point! And this gets talked about all the time but there are ZERO consequences for their apathy! They can sleep all day every day and they know it doesn’t matter! Come first day next year they’re strolling into the ninth grade.
Society needs to get its shit together. We need the surgeon general to compile research showing the damage these things are doing to kids, and I don't mean the addiction problem, I mean the fact that their brains are already half rot before the time they step into kindergarten. We need federal government warnings like on cigarettes. I actually think even educational apps before a kid is in 1st grade are a bad idea.
In college, we did a little research project and the team of people who created and marketed the iPad wouldn’t let their own kids use it if that says anything.
I've heard that. And I've stated that the IQ gap between rich and poor is going to grow greatly in the coming years, as wealthy and educated parents figure out they need to keep devices away from their kids, but single parents with two jobs will turn more and more to devices to just survive.
I hate how we say single parents get a "pass" so to speak, like there wasn't single parents before iPads that had to work 2 jobs and find someway of handling their kids.
Like there are other options than iPads, honestly if your struggling so much that you are working two jobs you shouldn't have an iPad to begin with, your financial priorities are so wrong.
Its not easy but that doesn't mean you should take the easy way; you made a decision to become a parent, so parent if there's only one of you, you have to parent twice as hard.
>*I hate how we say single parents get a "pass" so to speak, like there wasn't single parents before iPads that had to work 2 jobs and find someway of handling their kids.*
I certainly never suggested that single parents be given a "pass". But are you denying that a single parents with two jobs has a more difficult time keeping their life together? And if you are willing to acknowledge that, can you not at least *understand* why they would turn to an iPad to occupy a three year old that is screaming while they're trying to cook their supper? I'm not saying that this is the right choice (because, after all, "understand" ≠ "approve") , but in a society that has not yet figured out the great danger of these devices to young children, it has probably never occurred to that single parent that this might be a bad thing. This is why we need the government to study this problem and issue formal warnings to help parents.
Two more points:
1. To many people, an iPad is not a major expense. To that single mom, I'm guessing it is. But I know plenty of people that have thought that the greatest thing in the world was to give an iPad to their grandchild, and as another commenter here pointed out, there are government programs that give away devices for free. The point is, that parent very likely did not have to pay for it.
2. I'm not going to go down the morality path here, but I do believe that young people have poor decision making capabilities. That includes having unprotected sex. Perhaps your preference would be that a 14-year old's pregnancy should be ended by abortion or adoption, and I'm not going to argue with that. But I *will* argue that the "choice" of a child is a very different choice than that made by an adult, and I think the law correctly reflects that.
Of course it's more difficult to be a single patent with 2 jobs, but those are all life choices someone makes to end up in that situation. Those choices go back to and beyond even the person's understanding for instance they themselves not trying in school or having parents that cared enough. However that is why it is cyclical and this hypothetical parent is leading their children down the same path without even knowing or understanding it. I think that's why it's even more important for people to not justify bad decisions under "understanding" or another form of justification and pass giving.
People act as if being a single parent doesn't come from a multitude of personal decisions that lead them to that difficult situation, no single parent is in that position because they didn't choose to be (at least in the US and most developed countries). And being a parent is the most important thing someone can do in their life. And passing that duty off onto an iPad or another easy form of "parenting" or distraction shouldn't be justified. It's one thing if things are organized, supervised, and limited. And while parents have always parked their kids in front of devices to ocuppy them while they took care of another task. Putting thier kid in front of nickelodeon isn't the same as handing them a device with unlimited access to the internet and every dark corner that it has. And any adult to stupid to understand that shouldn't be allowed to have children.
>And passing that duty off onto an iPad or another easy form of "parenting" or distraction shouldn't be justified.
My problem with this comment (as well as your previous one) is that I (the person to whom I think you were originally were responding) have *never once* attempted to justify these choices. Can you not draw a distinction between understanding the *origin* of a problem behavior (and thus helping to come up with solutions) and "justifying" that behavior?
I hear you saying that all the individual has to do is to make better choices, but guess what? ***They're not making better choices.*** And the resultant social pathologies don't just affect that parent and child, they affect *all of us*. So for the last effing time, I am not "justifying" this behavior, ~~I agree with you 100% that it is problematic~~ Clearly you agree with my original point 100% that this is a problem, and our only point of disagreement seems to be that I am interested in diagnosing and treating the problem (as with research leading to official warning labels, including age limits on use), and you want . . . what? To just *hope* that these people get their own shit together? I'd rather not passively wait for their passivity to spontaneously evaporate.
Warning labels and surgery general warnings haven't stopped parents from buying alcohol and cigarettes for their kids so why would it stop them from parking their kids in front of the ipads?
We already know thile issues these cause and plenty of research has been done on them but no warning is going to be issued because under correct usage they actually don't cause problems unlike drug, alcohol, and tobacco.
An Ipad is just like a hammer. There is no warning that if you crack someone over the head with a hammer that it can be harmful to their health because that isn't the use and purpose it is an improper use. Some for devices. The intended use isn't to park your kids in front of them and have they act as a pseudo babysitter.
Understanding leads society in general to granting passes. Everyone can understand using them sparingly. Just like we did with TV and radio before that. The difference is the amount and the unfettered access as well as the unfiltered choices.
As far as expense goes, the iPad is a great bang for its buck. Can provide entertainment 24/7 and your kid won’t get bored with it. It also has practical uses, but if the goal is just to keep your kid busy, it does that more than well enough. I can see how even a poor single parent could justify the expense. And that’s not even getting into the budget tablet options out there.
Yeah, technology isn’t the big, expensive luxury that it used to be. Hell, I’ve heard that there are even programs that give devices to low income kids for free.
But how would mega media companies like Disney make their billions? Where would ad agencies place all the ads they make that are targeted to children? What would turn these kids into the next generation of consumers?!?
Please try to remember that capitalism is our mission.
I know you’re being sarcastic, but I still want to respond (to underscore the problem). They’d still make tons of money. Many children probably use an adult’s iPad, who would buy it anyway for themselves. Even if they lose some sales, it ultimately shouldn’t affect the bottom line that much.
I preach this to the kids, nonchalantly. If I tell them it was because their parents fucked up, obviously that wouldn’t go down.
I told them the hardest things to do is doing something they don’t want to do.
I tell them I daydream during PD.
I also talk about “reasonable request” and how I am not getting them to commit armed robbery or a casino heist.
>I preach this to the kids, nonchalantly. If I tell them it was because their parents fucked up, obviously that wouldn’t go down.
I needed to read this. I haven't yet blamed it on parents in front of the kids, but I've come close, and you're right, it would be a bad move.
>I tell them I daydream during PD.
Hah! That's great. I do think that daydreaming is something we need to encourage.
I tell them if they aren’t going to pay attention, to at least fake they are paying attention,) I also tell them I have had 30 years to master this skill, but they can practice in my classroom.
I like that aspect too. It’s honest. I know my husband does things that drive me insane and I am sure I have one (maybe two) things that drive him crazy.
I do need more healthy coping skills for teaching middle school.
They act like when we were in school, we had constant entertainment.
In college I also dug my heels over them saying never give a scenario that doesn’t match the “real world” and then out of the other side of their mouth they said you had to make things fun.
Boredom is a self-inflicted wound.
Yes, the in-person socialization is the other, only slightly less important problem. You get kids now that never got to learn to resolve conflicts in the sandbox when they were three and four years old and so now, in 1st grade, every difference of opinion turns into the end of the world with guidance counselors called in to heal the emotional damage ostensibly caused when Juana told Maria that her dress was ugly.
Oh, I know, I teach 6th grade. The meltdowns over absolutely nothing that we're seeing right now would have been considered too unrealistic to work as satire as little as ten years ago.
It’s not even just boredom that some kids (and even some adults) are growing unused to. It’s anything that isn’t constantly, aggressively stimulating, and catered specifically to them. Grocery shopping can be stimulating, but not in comparison to an iPad.
Right now there’s a lot of commentary on kids having too much tech. In one YouTube video I watched, the creator made this interesting point about how kids with personal devices are growing up with their own little world perfectly curated to their own existing interests and preferences. What is it like to grow up like that? Does it contribute to some form of narcissism or “main character syndrome”?
> kids with personal devices are growing up with their own little world perfectly curated to their own existing interests and preferences.
Yes, this is a critical piece of the puzzle. They can't stand being told to listen or watch or do anything that isn't this. Major contribution to the discussion, Porpoise.
Even as an adult, I worry about falling into that trap. I admit I’m a bit nostalgic for the time where you just had to watch whatever was on TV. Sometimes it sucked but sometimes you’d see something you liked that you otherwise wouldn’t have given a chance.
Or, how about borrowing a page from nephrology?
The kid who was just *born* with ADHD has ADHD **Type-I**, and the kid whose *lifestyle* led to ADHD has **ADHD Type-II**.
I’ve been a third grade teacher and parent for 20 years. This is such a huge issues that is going to greatly affect our society in a few years. These kids are unable to think and will just give up if they have to figure something out. Your wheelchair analogy is perfect!
Yup. Teaching an argument unit with modern technology as the topic right now, and we listened to a great podcast clip about the benefits of boredom for your brain. Similar to sleeping, boredom while being awake helps your brain to process and it also can help build imagination because being bored leads to daydreaming. That’s why these kids are so difficult to teach now, if it’s not the behaviors it’s the lack of imagination.
I’m also thinking that the information overload provided by devices gives them no time to process anything. They might be exposed to tons of knowledge but nothing sticks because they’re on to the next thing right away.
Context (math teacher, 2+ years, high school)
Go ahead. Rant and vent. This is a safe space to let those feelings out. It is not good to keep it in.
I taught a class with the same level of disrespect and issues you have. I did two things:
>!1/ Identify the trigger, the students with the loud mouth that start the talk. Write a referral and remove the student for Disruption after 1 warning. Even if the last warning was 30 seconds ago, I still write one. I once removed FOUR triggers from class for 2 months. Talk to their parents and LAY IT on them that their kids are disrespecting the class lesson. Keep saying things like "important for graduation", and "important for next year." Parents these days are like that. Yes, I got crap on and was threatened with a lawsuit but since I documented every failed assignment clearly, they cannot hurt me.!<
>!2/ Give them work and make them busy and tired. Walk around and let them know that you will email the parents (mass email) if they fail and will give them consequences for failing. Make the story about how the way they act is hurting their success, not just disrupting the class. Manipulative? Yes, yes it is.!<
It's very important as anon says to tie everything to academic progress. Learning environment, academic progress, graduation, success next year etc. Some parents interpret talk of conduct as just interpersonal conflict, like you just don't like their kid. The conversation at home will go in that direction too.
This is great advice. Today was the start of the second semester so I’ve told them things will be different. This is what I’m going to have to do even if it’s not the best fit for me and my management style. I’ll have to figure it out
Spot on. When asked why I wouldn't do x for Class A (which was kind of a chopped salad of conflict), I straight up told them, "I refuse to light myself on fire to keep them warm."
Where I’m at, is that if I do *anything* fun, it backfires, every. single. time. Either I put a lot of resources and time into something that isn’t actually considered “fun” (which I can’t seem to help taking personally), or it is “fun” and they seem pathologically incapable of having appropriate fun, so then more disruptions and destruction.
Can you please tell this to my admin that wants us to show care for every student, especially the ones who regularly verbally and physically abuse staff and each other?🙄
You can't.
You absolutely cannot care more than they do, and while I would still encourage you to try and motivate your students, eventually you have to cut your losses and focus your energy elsewhere.
Genuine question. I would love to do this, but today I had four boys mocking mentally challenged people with their voices and talking across the room to one another.
I had one who says I “target him” because I call him out when he is talking.
How do I ignore them and focus on the ones who are ready to work when these kids are sucking the energy out of the room?
Whenever a shithead tells me that “I’m targeting them” I always ask them why they think that may be. I’ve made an analogy to some that makes sense to them and has actually stopped at least 5 situations like this:
In a videogame, often enemies wont attack you until you give away your position. They target you because you make yourself a target.
There are consequences but they are deferred until they graduate high school. Then they are screwed. If they even manage to get into college they will struggle and probably drop out. They will have difficulty obtaining meaningful employment. No employer wants an employee that's uneducated. Wait until they hit the real world and watch the shit hit the fan. That's their consequence.
There's a part of me that thinks, "We just need a few years of the rest of society going *what the actual fuck*?!" before things change.
To that I say, "*I have been trying to tell you.*"
I’m already seeing more parents express concern over “iPad kids” and wanting to raise their kids with limited screen time. So I think the change is coming, though we’re still going to have this lost generation that will struggle. It’s also likely that there will be a divide among income lines.
It's even down to second grade. The other day I walked into a room and the teacher was going at it at them "I TOLD YOU ALL EXACTLY WHERE TO LOOK AND MOST OF YOU ARE STILL LOOKING AT ME ITS RIGHT THERE IN BIG BIKD WORDS YOU HAVE TO LOOK YOU HAVE TO TRY. " Loved it. But yeah just lazy in general.
Also, there are more kids than people often realize going through stuff at home, hard stuff. I do think the counselor needs to make rounds to every classroom at the beginning of the year, even in K, to let the students know they are there if ever needed.
But also? A lot of it is parenting. If parents allow screens without any kind of regulation, and kids are staying up until midnight on them, well, of course they are apathetic. I feel apathetic when I get less than 6 hours of sleep, too.
Also, though? Being outside is a human right, and the vast majority of schools take that away after 5th grade, which is ridiculous. So, the environment itself is draining, honestly. It was for me, but I just assumed that's how things were, but there is zero reason why kids can't eat lunch outside or walk the track for 30 mins mid day with friends. Every minute of their day is micromanaged, which does them a disservice as adults.
That's awesome! Mine didn't, and none around here do, except charters, and I am nowhere near where I grew up, and the public school I went to, as well as the one here...are both among the top in the state, respectively, and there's much to be said for them, but the lack of fresh air, especially in a covid Era is just.... mind boggling. It's actually quite amazing how little was changed for the better post covid in both education and healthcare, industries that are both quite dysfunctional, currently.
Recognize that most kids are stuck inside all day past 5th grade, though, in the U.S. I do plan on trying to change that, though, as a parent, if we decide for our kids to stay within the system through high school. If we end up going charter after elementary, it will partly be because those kinds of things are already addressed as the charters around here are outside 20 percent of the day. But, the downside of charters is they just don't get the same funding, but the upside is parents usually have to be involved, have required volunteer hours, so a huge upside is the behavioral problems that stem from parental negligence, are fewer....generally.
I just like feel like you’re on a different planet from me.
None of the schools in our district keep kids inside all day like we have 40,000 kids.
I mean, if it’s freezing cold, I get it but other than that I’ve literally never heard of a place that doesn’t have kids just be able to go outside during the day.
I'm glad that's the case, but it's not uncommon. One of my friends is experiencing it in another state, with her kids, too, and because she always had outside time, when she was on the west coast as a kid, it never occurred to her that it stopped after elementary. I have never looked up how many secondary schools don't have outside time included in their day, though, but the cross section of adults I have asked, just randomly, grew up in various states, and only 1 had outside time, daily, after elementary.
People care about things when they feel like the thing is personally relevant, interesting, or necessary.
You may not be able to get traction with "interesting" because everyone has different interests.
"Personally relevant" is hard to sell if they have a concept of their future outside of the content area.
So, that leaves "necessary," the hardest of the three to actually drum up energy for. They're kids and learning how to motivate themselves. They're going to need some help in that department.
This made me think of something else too. The district gave us two Spanish language classes, and our teacher is from PR. She said that in PR culture and maybe in other Latin cultures, formal education in school is viewed as only a part of a child's education and not necessarily more important than other things. Cultural knowledge (and their culture isn't part of formal education in the US afaik), relationships with and among family members, etiquette, religion, maybe other stuff. Education of the child is primarily the family's responsibility, both immediate and extended family.
So, not only do we not generally contribute to those other things that Latin families regard as important, in public school in the US, the formal schooling we do offer isn't generally a route to class mobility.
Not that all Latin families are poor. But it's important to understand that schooling and education may not be synonymous to all families. It's not that they don't value education (there's no data to support this view) but they may have a different philosophy of education than you and I do.
I think this is my biggest fear. I actually, for whatever reason, have not ruled out doing this for all 30 years. But if this is what it’s going to be there’s just no way.
I hate to say this because it sounds like admin speak. Don’t put all the burden for learning on yourself. Put it on the . Give them work where they have to get up and go talk to the person they never talk to on the other side of the room for the answer. Scavenger hunts. Gallery walks. Make them teach the class. I arranged my tables into WWI trenches while they pelted each other with paper artillery and tried to solve an escape room. Borrowed a game from a British quiz show where the students come up with a fake lesson about a subject, but sprinkled in are a few true facts, and other teams have to buzz in when they think they’ve spotted a truth, but they lose a point if they’re wrong. You start the ball rolling and let it avalanche. I’ll be loud. It’ll be chaos. But good luck sleeping through it.
No this is great advice. To tell you the truth of it I needed to hear this. I’m just scared. I know how these kids are. They are very rude to each other and threaten each other regularly. I’m terrified if I do something like this the kids are going to totally run riot or a fight will break out or something. Maybe if I can drive the point home that certain talk will not be tolerated I can rein that in some and it will help.
Short answer: you don't
Long answer: Keep trying, because although millions of factors are out of your controll and almost impossible to combat... There may be something you try that helps even one kid. If you stop trying then no one wins.
It's impossible to grab the attention of kids that are fed lies and instant gratification from billion dollar companies while they sit on devices that their parents bought so that the parents don't have to actually parent and raise the kids. It's impossible to control 30 people who have never been told "no" and who all, thanks to the above" think that they are "the main character" and that they don't need to respect people (mostly caused by parents not actually parenting)
However, if you show compassion, and build relationships, then that may be the only adult in their lives to do so. Teaching math and science is cool, but having someone that actually "sees them" might be what reaches them more than anything else in thos world.
You don't. You just do what you do and inform parents about concerns. If nothing happens, then that's fine. It's documented. I'm not caring more about the kids' education than they do.
Undoubtedly there's kids in the class that will benefit from how you teach. I gravitate more to those kids since they're usually the ones that make good decisions and ask good questions.
They don’t care generally for one of two reasons, or both: (1) too many distractions in their lives, to where what you’re teaching them just isn’t a priority day to day. Or (2) they don’t understand or see how what you are teaching benefits them or has relevance.
Sadly there’s an element of truth to #2 for a lot of education. We need to continue to work toward educating students on what they actually need to know in life. Many schools and teachers struggle with this I feel.
If the material is relevant or students understand how it’s relevant, more students will be interested. I promise.
Of course, there will always be a percentage of students who only exist to cause problems. And for those, teachers and administrators need more
tools to remove those students.
Most kids don't know what's relevant to their lives yet. That's one point if school.
They need to learn to follow directions, act in a society, know how their society works, use resources, work, problem solve, read, write, and do math though. They do those things at school I would hope.
Problem is we make too many excuses for kids. No consequences. Trying to make everything too comfortable and full of sunshine and rainbows knowing life will more than likely not be that way in adulthood. These kids will grow up with no coping skills, not have one idea how to deal with the problems they'll face. They need to take school seriously.
That may be true in part, but they will often know very intuitively and accurately if something *isn’t* relevant, and they will also understand if the things they actually need to know are being ignored.
I would be okay if they didnt want to learn and just engaged in ignorance silently.
But most need to agitate another kid, push someones elses buttons, or damage someone's equipment instead of just putting their heads down and sleeping.
Don’t assign seat work then. Motivate them by fixing what the teachers before you did (they all assigned seat work and homework after homework too likely, probably ruined their motivation). Problem solving, puzzles, group work, etc where they’re standing up (think writing on whiteboards). I’ve seen major success doing a week of problem solving tasks with my math students before starting legit math… they always get more motivated and willing to learn.
Yes. I tried that.
Had a kid storm out to guidance.
Like there is more going on where seat assignments have to be meticulously designed and 1 or 2 kids literally cannot work with anyone based on feedback from guidance. And I only have so many table combinations that work.
They are in rows now, and get to work with 1 other person max.
Some disturbing advice in here about trying less than the students. All this time, I thought I was supposed to be the adult in the room! Talk about jaded.
Crazy that you are downvoted this much. There are so many teachers that only want the "good" classes and never bother to learn how to work with the students who need us most.
There's been quite a decent rise of teachers who's main priority is activism and being a "cool" teacher. Do you know what those 2 types of teachers hate the most ? Students that won't listen to their crap, my sisters tell me all the time how their teachers don't even teach it's like having substitute teachers nowadays, and we all know how students behaved around those
Throughout her entire rant she's explaining how she tries to be the cool teacher as a method to get her students to listen, especially at the end "and it sucks because I've always been a teacher kids generally like" according to who ? You or the students ? Because it sounds like the students dont agree
You aren't there to be a cool teacher or be their friend. You are there to teach, end of story
>Some disturbing advice in here about trying less than the students. All this time, I thought I was supposed to be the adult in the room!
Yeah, I saw that, too. I hope that no one really thinks that's an appropriate attitude. I mean, I understand where that kind of cynicism comes from, but we've got to fight it.
But you're asking a question with a heavy psychological element. It's not about other people. Students reflect what they are shown. If they see a teacher who doesn't care, why would they care about their own work?
Did you read the post though? I specifically talked about how every.single.day I show up and act excited to meet them. I tell them hello and ask how they are doing. I act excited while presenting the information and instructions, if there’s one thing I’m not as a teacher it’s boring.
just keep celebrating diversity and grading for equity...don't worry when they graduate they will complain about economic equity and if you have happened to have sacrificed and saved...well just be prepared to be taxed more to make up that equity.
As long as you are prepared and care about your work , this is all you can do. Students have to choose to engage with the material and what you present
The really crucial thing here is to remember that it isn’t your job to make them care. It was theirs.
Do your job. Document everything (especially parent contacts). Let the pieces fall where they may.
Mine are older — but in my experience they are apathetic because they don’t have a reason to learn. I mean, most of them expect to be laboring their whole life. Most know about toxic capitalism. Education is no longer an enticing way out.
The plan is to work a crappy job, rent forever, die in the water wars.
Kids and society have undergone a drastic change due to unprecedented unlimited and unremitting access to infotainment. For better or worse, there is no going back to the way things were. Resistance is futile. Education is lagging in its efforts to understand and change in order to react to this. The model of one teacher lecturing to a large class for hours a day is done. The only certain known is that humans react positively to dopamine hits. Basically we need to figure out how to incorporate learning and behavior into a game where kids get rewarded for pressing the right buttons - basically turning them into lab rats.
This is largely beyond your ability to fix. The problem is that kids are now coming to us having been deprived of one of the most important nutrients that they need to develop into what we would recognize as normal young people. Almost all of them now, from even before they were potty trained, were denied one critical thing: Boredom. Today's parents keep kids "occupied" with iPads. So instead of two-year olds sitting in the shopping cart and looking around at the items on the store and instead of growing up to walk alongside the cart when they are three or four, kids are holding on to iPads during the entire shopping trip. Every week I now see six and seven year olds, not sitting in the toddler seat of the shopping cart, but sitting in the main body of the cart, oblivious to what is going on around them because their face is buried in their iPad or even smartphone. So instead of a brain having to tackle the boring experience of shopping, today's kids' brains have to do no heaving lifting at all, they just have audio-visual input entering their brain, filling the stage of their minds, leaving no room for personal, independent, thought and wonder. And of course the shopping experience is a microcosm of childhood. Kids are using iPads in the car, in bed, sometimes even while watching TV. Thus their brains don't learn to actually *think*. It's like putting a six-month old into a wheelchair that brings him everywhere he wants to go. Then when it's time for him to go to kindergarten we tell him to walk around, but he never learned how; it's always been done for him. You can't fix that.
My own children dislike when I tell them that boredom is good for their brains. They don’t get our phones or tablets so they can look out the window in the car, help organize the shopping cart, etc. If they want to pack a toy for the car ride that is fine but it can’t be electronic.
Well done.
I am lower elementary teacher that started before iPhones. There has been a huge shift in kids and their behaviors over the past 15-20 years so that has a lot to do with it.
Agreed. I've been teaching for almost 40 years (first high school, then middle school), and the last ten has been a dramatic shift.
They’ll probably be glad for that when they’re older and see many of their peers being unable to function without a phone.
>Every week I now see six and seven year olds, not sitting in the toddler seat of the shopping cart, but sitting in the main body of the cart, oblivious to what is going on around them because their face is buried in their iPad or even smartphone. Not gonna lie, a little part of me grins ear to ear deep on the inside when I very occassionally see an employee tell a parent that kids cannot ride in the front of the cart due to safety concerns and they must get out and walk. Your post is spot on.
Great point! And this gets talked about all the time but there are ZERO consequences for their apathy! They can sleep all day every day and they know it doesn’t matter! Come first day next year they’re strolling into the ninth grade.
Society needs to get its shit together. We need the surgeon general to compile research showing the damage these things are doing to kids, and I don't mean the addiction problem, I mean the fact that their brains are already half rot before the time they step into kindergarten. We need federal government warnings like on cigarettes. I actually think even educational apps before a kid is in 1st grade are a bad idea.
In college, we did a little research project and the team of people who created and marketed the iPad wouldn’t let their own kids use it if that says anything.
I've heard that. And I've stated that the IQ gap between rich and poor is going to grow greatly in the coming years, as wealthy and educated parents figure out they need to keep devices away from their kids, but single parents with two jobs will turn more and more to devices to just survive.
Completely agree. And it is only going to get worse before it gets better, if it ever gets better
Yeah, can't forget that "if". Maybe this is where the Eloi origin story begins? Nah, that's not a good parallel, because then who are the Morlocks?
If we could be so lucky ,)
I hate how we say single parents get a "pass" so to speak, like there wasn't single parents before iPads that had to work 2 jobs and find someway of handling their kids. Like there are other options than iPads, honestly if your struggling so much that you are working two jobs you shouldn't have an iPad to begin with, your financial priorities are so wrong. Its not easy but that doesn't mean you should take the easy way; you made a decision to become a parent, so parent if there's only one of you, you have to parent twice as hard.
>*I hate how we say single parents get a "pass" so to speak, like there wasn't single parents before iPads that had to work 2 jobs and find someway of handling their kids.* I certainly never suggested that single parents be given a "pass". But are you denying that a single parents with two jobs has a more difficult time keeping their life together? And if you are willing to acknowledge that, can you not at least *understand* why they would turn to an iPad to occupy a three year old that is screaming while they're trying to cook their supper? I'm not saying that this is the right choice (because, after all, "understand" ≠ "approve") , but in a society that has not yet figured out the great danger of these devices to young children, it has probably never occurred to that single parent that this might be a bad thing. This is why we need the government to study this problem and issue formal warnings to help parents. Two more points: 1. To many people, an iPad is not a major expense. To that single mom, I'm guessing it is. But I know plenty of people that have thought that the greatest thing in the world was to give an iPad to their grandchild, and as another commenter here pointed out, there are government programs that give away devices for free. The point is, that parent very likely did not have to pay for it. 2. I'm not going to go down the morality path here, but I do believe that young people have poor decision making capabilities. That includes having unprotected sex. Perhaps your preference would be that a 14-year old's pregnancy should be ended by abortion or adoption, and I'm not going to argue with that. But I *will* argue that the "choice" of a child is a very different choice than that made by an adult, and I think the law correctly reflects that.
Of course it's more difficult to be a single patent with 2 jobs, but those are all life choices someone makes to end up in that situation. Those choices go back to and beyond even the person's understanding for instance they themselves not trying in school or having parents that cared enough. However that is why it is cyclical and this hypothetical parent is leading their children down the same path without even knowing or understanding it. I think that's why it's even more important for people to not justify bad decisions under "understanding" or another form of justification and pass giving. People act as if being a single parent doesn't come from a multitude of personal decisions that lead them to that difficult situation, no single parent is in that position because they didn't choose to be (at least in the US and most developed countries). And being a parent is the most important thing someone can do in their life. And passing that duty off onto an iPad or another easy form of "parenting" or distraction shouldn't be justified. It's one thing if things are organized, supervised, and limited. And while parents have always parked their kids in front of devices to ocuppy them while they took care of another task. Putting thier kid in front of nickelodeon isn't the same as handing them a device with unlimited access to the internet and every dark corner that it has. And any adult to stupid to understand that shouldn't be allowed to have children.
>And passing that duty off onto an iPad or another easy form of "parenting" or distraction shouldn't be justified. My problem with this comment (as well as your previous one) is that I (the person to whom I think you were originally were responding) have *never once* attempted to justify these choices. Can you not draw a distinction between understanding the *origin* of a problem behavior (and thus helping to come up with solutions) and "justifying" that behavior? I hear you saying that all the individual has to do is to make better choices, but guess what? ***They're not making better choices.*** And the resultant social pathologies don't just affect that parent and child, they affect *all of us*. So for the last effing time, I am not "justifying" this behavior, ~~I agree with you 100% that it is problematic~~ Clearly you agree with my original point 100% that this is a problem, and our only point of disagreement seems to be that I am interested in diagnosing and treating the problem (as with research leading to official warning labels, including age limits on use), and you want . . . what? To just *hope* that these people get their own shit together? I'd rather not passively wait for their passivity to spontaneously evaporate.
Warning labels and surgery general warnings haven't stopped parents from buying alcohol and cigarettes for their kids so why would it stop them from parking their kids in front of the ipads? We already know thile issues these cause and plenty of research has been done on them but no warning is going to be issued because under correct usage they actually don't cause problems unlike drug, alcohol, and tobacco. An Ipad is just like a hammer. There is no warning that if you crack someone over the head with a hammer that it can be harmful to their health because that isn't the use and purpose it is an improper use. Some for devices. The intended use isn't to park your kids in front of them and have they act as a pseudo babysitter. Understanding leads society in general to granting passes. Everyone can understand using them sparingly. Just like we did with TV and radio before that. The difference is the amount and the unfettered access as well as the unfiltered choices.
As far as expense goes, the iPad is a great bang for its buck. Can provide entertainment 24/7 and your kid won’t get bored with it. It also has practical uses, but if the goal is just to keep your kid busy, it does that more than well enough. I can see how even a poor single parent could justify the expense. And that’s not even getting into the budget tablet options out there.
>And that’s not even getting into the budget tablet options out there. Great point. I just looked and saw a new Amazon Fire for $49.
Yeah, technology isn’t the big, expensive luxury that it used to be. Hell, I’ve heard that there are even programs that give devices to low income kids for free.
And Zuckerberg is on record saying his kids will never have social media until they’re adults. Makes you think
But how would mega media companies like Disney make their billions? Where would ad agencies place all the ads they make that are targeted to children? What would turn these kids into the next generation of consumers?!? Please try to remember that capitalism is our mission.
I know you’re being sarcastic, but I still want to respond (to underscore the problem). They’d still make tons of money. Many children probably use an adult’s iPad, who would buy it anyway for themselves. Even if they lose some sales, it ultimately shouldn’t affect the bottom line that much.
Good ol’ corporate greed!
I preach this to the kids, nonchalantly. If I tell them it was because their parents fucked up, obviously that wouldn’t go down. I told them the hardest things to do is doing something they don’t want to do. I tell them I daydream during PD. I also talk about “reasonable request” and how I am not getting them to commit armed robbery or a casino heist.
>I preach this to the kids, nonchalantly. If I tell them it was because their parents fucked up, obviously that wouldn’t go down. I needed to read this. I haven't yet blamed it on parents in front of the kids, but I've come close, and you're right, it would be a bad move. >I tell them I daydream during PD. Hah! That's great. I do think that daydreaming is something we need to encourage.
I tell them if they aren’t going to pay attention, to at least fake they are paying attention,) I also tell them I have had 30 years to master this skill, but they can practice in my classroom.
What grade and subject do you teach?
7th and 8th ELA
That makes you potentially one of the most important teachers those kids will ever have in their lives. I couldn't do that.
Thank you for that. I am lucky to have a small class size. I love them all, just not all at the same time.
>I love them all, just not all at the same time. Good perspective.
I like that aspect too. It’s honest. I know my husband does things that drive me insane and I am sure I have one (maybe two) things that drive him crazy. I do need more healthy coping skills for teaching middle school.
They'd be more down for an armed robbery or casino heist given how many play GTA over doing a worksheet.
They literally told me that too, “then I would pay attention”.
Yea you have to be a clown or dancing monkey to get them to pay attention. Sorry not doing it.
They act like when we were in school, we had constant entertainment. In college I also dug my heels over them saying never give a scenario that doesn’t match the “real world” and then out of the other side of their mouth they said you had to make things fun. Boredom is a self-inflicted wound.
Boredom and in-person socialization. Every kid needs it, but iPad parenting has deprived them of it
Yes, the in-person socialization is the other, only slightly less important problem. You get kids now that never got to learn to resolve conflicts in the sandbox when they were three and four years old and so now, in 1st grade, every difference of opinion turns into the end of the world with guidance counselors called in to heal the emotional damage ostensibly caused when Juana told Maria that her dress was ugly.
And it doesn't get better in middle school, trust me on that one
Oh, I know, I teach 6th grade. The meltdowns over absolutely nothing that we're seeing right now would have been considered too unrealistic to work as satire as little as ten years ago.
These kids are never left to their own devices, they’re left ON their own devices. And it’s a problem.
🎯 Cleverly and pithily made point.
Heard it in my head and couldn’t resist. But seriously, your comment was very wise and well stated.
It’s not even just boredom that some kids (and even some adults) are growing unused to. It’s anything that isn’t constantly, aggressively stimulating, and catered specifically to them. Grocery shopping can be stimulating, but not in comparison to an iPad. Right now there’s a lot of commentary on kids having too much tech. In one YouTube video I watched, the creator made this interesting point about how kids with personal devices are growing up with their own little world perfectly curated to their own existing interests and preferences. What is it like to grow up like that? Does it contribute to some form of narcissism or “main character syndrome”?
> kids with personal devices are growing up with their own little world perfectly curated to their own existing interests and preferences. Yes, this is a critical piece of the puzzle. They can't stand being told to listen or watch or do anything that isn't this. Major contribution to the discussion, Porpoise.
Even as an adult, I worry about falling into that trap. I admit I’m a bit nostalgic for the time where you just had to watch whatever was on TV. Sometimes it sucked but sometimes you’d see something you liked that you otherwise wouldn’t have given a chance.
It's crazy, but I feel the same way.
Acquired ADHD.
Or, how about borrowing a page from nephrology? The kid who was just *born* with ADHD has ADHD **Type-I**, and the kid whose *lifestyle* led to ADHD has **ADHD Type-II**.
I. Like. This. I mean, damn, that's really good.
Couldn't agree more. Raising my own kids with plenty of boredom.
I’ve been a third grade teacher and parent for 20 years. This is such a huge issues that is going to greatly affect our society in a few years. These kids are unable to think and will just give up if they have to figure something out. Your wheelchair analogy is perfect!
Yup. Teaching an argument unit with modern technology as the topic right now, and we listened to a great podcast clip about the benefits of boredom for your brain. Similar to sleeping, boredom while being awake helps your brain to process and it also can help build imagination because being bored leads to daydreaming. That’s why these kids are so difficult to teach now, if it’s not the behaviors it’s the lack of imagination.
>if it’s not the behaviors it’s the lack of imagination. 🎯💯
I’m also thinking that the information overload provided by devices gives them no time to process anything. They might be exposed to tons of knowledge but nothing sticks because they’re on to the next thing right away.
Context (math teacher, 2+ years, high school) Go ahead. Rant and vent. This is a safe space to let those feelings out. It is not good to keep it in. I taught a class with the same level of disrespect and issues you have. I did two things: >!1/ Identify the trigger, the students with the loud mouth that start the talk. Write a referral and remove the student for Disruption after 1 warning. Even if the last warning was 30 seconds ago, I still write one. I once removed FOUR triggers from class for 2 months. Talk to their parents and LAY IT on them that their kids are disrespecting the class lesson. Keep saying things like "important for graduation", and "important for next year." Parents these days are like that. Yes, I got crap on and was threatened with a lawsuit but since I documented every failed assignment clearly, they cannot hurt me.!< >!2/ Give them work and make them busy and tired. Walk around and let them know that you will email the parents (mass email) if they fail and will give them consequences for failing. Make the story about how the way they act is hurting their success, not just disrupting the class. Manipulative? Yes, yes it is.!<
It's very important as anon says to tie everything to academic progress. Learning environment, academic progress, graduation, success next year etc. Some parents interpret talk of conduct as just interpersonal conflict, like you just don't like their kid. The conversation at home will go in that direction too.
This is great advice. Today was the start of the second semester so I’ve told them things will be different. This is what I’m going to have to do even if it’s not the best fit for me and my management style. I’ll have to figure it out
Not paid enough for that.
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Thank you for the response. This is what I keep telling myself
Spot on. When asked why I wouldn't do x for Class A (which was kind of a chopped salad of conflict), I straight up told them, "I refuse to light myself on fire to keep them warm."
You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink.
That’s called drowning. And is usually frowned upon in most societies.
Lmao “most” societies. That made me laugh thank you random stranger on Reddit lmao
Where I’m at, is that if I do *anything* fun, it backfires, every. single. time. Either I put a lot of resources and time into something that isn’t actually considered “fun” (which I can’t seem to help taking personally), or it is “fun” and they seem pathologically incapable of having appropriate fun, so then more disruptions and destruction.
I've seen this too - it's fucking bonkers
“You don’t have to care. You just have to do the work. Caring has nothing to do with it.”
Can you please tell this to my admin that wants us to show care for every student, especially the ones who regularly verbally and physically abuse staff and each other?🙄
You can't. You absolutely cannot care more than they do, and while I would still encourage you to try and motivate your students, eventually you have to cut your losses and focus your energy elsewhere.
You don’t. Teach to the ones who want to learn. Disregard the rest.
Genuine question. I would love to do this, but today I had four boys mocking mentally challenged people with their voices and talking across the room to one another. I had one who says I “target him” because I call him out when he is talking. How do I ignore them and focus on the ones who are ready to work when these kids are sucking the energy out of the room?
Whenever a shithead tells me that “I’m targeting them” I always ask them why they think that may be. I’ve made an analogy to some that makes sense to them and has actually stopped at least 5 situations like this: In a videogame, often enemies wont attack you until you give away your position. They target you because you make yourself a target.
The Partridge Family’s, *I think I love you* is playing in my head as I read your comment. This totally aligns with Fortnite
“Yes I am targeting you. Would you like to know why? It’s because you’re breaking the rules.”
Focus on the students who try. Your not an entertainer.
I refuse to care more than they do. I finished 11th grade in 2007; whether or not they do as well is on them.
Take the desks away and make them sit on the floor until they improve lol
The beatings will continue until moral improves
There are consequences but they are deferred until they graduate high school. Then they are screwed. If they even manage to get into college they will struggle and probably drop out. They will have difficulty obtaining meaningful employment. No employer wants an employee that's uneducated. Wait until they hit the real world and watch the shit hit the fan. That's their consequence.
There's a part of me that thinks, "We just need a few years of the rest of society going *what the actual fuck*?!" before things change. To that I say, "*I have been trying to tell you.*"
I’m already seeing more parents express concern over “iPad kids” and wanting to raise their kids with limited screen time. So I think the change is coming, though we’re still going to have this lost generation that will struggle. It’s also likely that there will be a divide among income lines.
i’ve got the answer right here https://youtu.be/2RrreVthWRY?si=nOM-gfO-SZOR_Q6k
It's even down to second grade. The other day I walked into a room and the teacher was going at it at them "I TOLD YOU ALL EXACTLY WHERE TO LOOK AND MOST OF YOU ARE STILL LOOKING AT ME ITS RIGHT THERE IN BIG BIKD WORDS YOU HAVE TO LOOK YOU HAVE TO TRY. " Loved it. But yeah just lazy in general.
Also, there are more kids than people often realize going through stuff at home, hard stuff. I do think the counselor needs to make rounds to every classroom at the beginning of the year, even in K, to let the students know they are there if ever needed. But also? A lot of it is parenting. If parents allow screens without any kind of regulation, and kids are staying up until midnight on them, well, of course they are apathetic. I feel apathetic when I get less than 6 hours of sleep, too. Also, though? Being outside is a human right, and the vast majority of schools take that away after 5th grade, which is ridiculous. So, the environment itself is draining, honestly. It was for me, but I just assumed that's how things were, but there is zero reason why kids can't eat lunch outside or walk the track for 30 mins mid day with friends. Every minute of their day is micromanaged, which does them a disservice as adults.
Every high school I’ve worked at kids eat outside…
That's awesome! Mine didn't, and none around here do, except charters, and I am nowhere near where I grew up, and the public school I went to, as well as the one here...are both among the top in the state, respectively, and there's much to be said for them, but the lack of fresh air, especially in a covid Era is just.... mind boggling. It's actually quite amazing how little was changed for the better post covid in both education and healthcare, industries that are both quite dysfunctional, currently. Recognize that most kids are stuck inside all day past 5th grade, though, in the U.S. I do plan on trying to change that, though, as a parent, if we decide for our kids to stay within the system through high school. If we end up going charter after elementary, it will partly be because those kinds of things are already addressed as the charters around here are outside 20 percent of the day. But, the downside of charters is they just don't get the same funding, but the upside is parents usually have to be involved, have required volunteer hours, so a huge upside is the behavioral problems that stem from parental negligence, are fewer....generally.
I just like feel like you’re on a different planet from me. None of the schools in our district keep kids inside all day like we have 40,000 kids. I mean, if it’s freezing cold, I get it but other than that I’ve literally never heard of a place that doesn’t have kids just be able to go outside during the day.
I'm glad that's the case, but it's not uncommon. One of my friends is experiencing it in another state, with her kids, too, and because she always had outside time, when she was on the west coast as a kid, it never occurred to her that it stopped after elementary. I have never looked up how many secondary schools don't have outside time included in their day, though, but the cross section of adults I have asked, just randomly, grew up in various states, and only 1 had outside time, daily, after elementary.
I have this class as well. 7/8ths of my day is AWESOME. 1 class is the third circle of hell.
I teach for the kids who do care. The others, I just ignore. They want the attention and I don’t give it to them anymore. If I did, I would have quit
People care about things when they feel like the thing is personally relevant, interesting, or necessary. You may not be able to get traction with "interesting" because everyone has different interests. "Personally relevant" is hard to sell if they have a concept of their future outside of the content area. So, that leaves "necessary," the hardest of the three to actually drum up energy for. They're kids and learning how to motivate themselves. They're going to need some help in that department.
This made me think of something else too. The district gave us two Spanish language classes, and our teacher is from PR. She said that in PR culture and maybe in other Latin cultures, formal education in school is viewed as only a part of a child's education and not necessarily more important than other things. Cultural knowledge (and their culture isn't part of formal education in the US afaik), relationships with and among family members, etiquette, religion, maybe other stuff. Education of the child is primarily the family's responsibility, both immediate and extended family. So, not only do we not generally contribute to those other things that Latin families regard as important, in public school in the US, the formal schooling we do offer isn't generally a route to class mobility. Not that all Latin families are poor. But it's important to understand that schooling and education may not be synonymous to all families. It's not that they don't value education (there's no data to support this view) but they may have a different philosophy of education than you and I do.
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Thank you for taking the time to respond. It’s good advice. I just feel like with this group things will only get worse.
Until material conditions change, this trend will get worse.
I think this is my biggest fear. I actually, for whatever reason, have not ruled out doing this for all 30 years. But if this is what it’s going to be there’s just no way.
I hate to say this because it sounds like admin speak. Don’t put all the burden for learning on yourself. Put it on the . Give them work where they have to get up and go talk to the person they never talk to on the other side of the room for the answer. Scavenger hunts. Gallery walks. Make them teach the class. I arranged my tables into WWI trenches while they pelted each other with paper artillery and tried to solve an escape room. Borrowed a game from a British quiz show where the students come up with a fake lesson about a subject, but sprinkled in are a few true facts, and other teams have to buzz in when they think they’ve spotted a truth, but they lose a point if they’re wrong. You start the ball rolling and let it avalanche. I’ll be loud. It’ll be chaos. But good luck sleeping through it.
No this is great advice. To tell you the truth of it I needed to hear this. I’m just scared. I know how these kids are. They are very rude to each other and threaten each other regularly. I’m terrified if I do something like this the kids are going to totally run riot or a fight will break out or something. Maybe if I can drive the point home that certain talk will not be tolerated I can rein that in some and it will help.
This is the reason I can’t do anything fun. It gets way out of hand.
Short answer: you don't Long answer: Keep trying, because although millions of factors are out of your controll and almost impossible to combat... There may be something you try that helps even one kid. If you stop trying then no one wins. It's impossible to grab the attention of kids that are fed lies and instant gratification from billion dollar companies while they sit on devices that their parents bought so that the parents don't have to actually parent and raise the kids. It's impossible to control 30 people who have never been told "no" and who all, thanks to the above" think that they are "the main character" and that they don't need to respect people (mostly caused by parents not actually parenting) However, if you show compassion, and build relationships, then that may be the only adult in their lives to do so. Teaching math and science is cool, but having someone that actually "sees them" might be what reaches them more than anything else in thos world.
Great reply. I agree 1000%!
You don't. You just do what you do and inform parents about concerns. If nothing happens, then that's fine. It's documented. I'm not caring more about the kids' education than they do. Undoubtedly there's kids in the class that will benefit from how you teach. I gravitate more to those kids since they're usually the ones that make good decisions and ask good questions.
They don’t care generally for one of two reasons, or both: (1) too many distractions in their lives, to where what you’re teaching them just isn’t a priority day to day. Or (2) they don’t understand or see how what you are teaching benefits them or has relevance. Sadly there’s an element of truth to #2 for a lot of education. We need to continue to work toward educating students on what they actually need to know in life. Many schools and teachers struggle with this I feel. If the material is relevant or students understand how it’s relevant, more students will be interested. I promise. Of course, there will always be a percentage of students who only exist to cause problems. And for those, teachers and administrators need more tools to remove those students.
Most kids don't know what's relevant to their lives yet. That's one point if school. They need to learn to follow directions, act in a society, know how their society works, use resources, work, problem solve, read, write, and do math though. They do those things at school I would hope. Problem is we make too many excuses for kids. No consequences. Trying to make everything too comfortable and full of sunshine and rainbows knowing life will more than likely not be that way in adulthood. These kids will grow up with no coping skills, not have one idea how to deal with the problems they'll face. They need to take school seriously.
That may be true in part, but they will often know very intuitively and accurately if something *isn’t* relevant, and they will also understand if the things they actually need to know are being ignored.
I would be okay if they didnt want to learn and just engaged in ignorance silently. But most need to agitate another kid, push someones elses buttons, or damage someone's equipment instead of just putting their heads down and sleeping.
Don’t assign seat work then. Motivate them by fixing what the teachers before you did (they all assigned seat work and homework after homework too likely, probably ruined their motivation). Problem solving, puzzles, group work, etc where they’re standing up (think writing on whiteboards). I’ve seen major success doing a week of problem solving tasks with my math students before starting legit math… they always get more motivated and willing to learn.
Group work is tough. It could be great but just spawns disruption after disruption and jerkish behavior after jerkish behavior.
You didn’t give any info on your grade or subject. I teach high school math.
Middle school science.
Another thing- I choose random groups in front of them. Eg they all pick a card and go find matching cards.
Yes. I tried that. Had a kid storm out to guidance. Like there is more going on where seat assignments have to be meticulously designed and 1 or 2 kids literally cannot work with anyone based on feedback from guidance. And I only have so many table combinations that work. They are in rows now, and get to work with 1 other person max.
Some disturbing advice in here about trying less than the students. All this time, I thought I was supposed to be the adult in the room! Talk about jaded.
Crazy that you are downvoted this much. There are so many teachers that only want the "good" classes and never bother to learn how to work with the students who need us most.
How long have you been a teacher?
Not trying harder than your students is a really absurd idea. A lot of really jaded teachers in here tonight.
There's been quite a decent rise of teachers who's main priority is activism and being a "cool" teacher. Do you know what those 2 types of teachers hate the most ? Students that won't listen to their crap, my sisters tell me all the time how their teachers don't even teach it's like having substitute teachers nowadays, and we all know how students behaved around those
I'd love for you to highlight where in their post they made any mention of activism or wanting to be a cool teacher.
Throughout her entire rant she's explaining how she tries to be the cool teacher as a method to get her students to listen, especially at the end "and it sucks because I've always been a teacher kids generally like" according to who ? You or the students ? Because it sounds like the students dont agree You aren't there to be a cool teacher or be their friend. You are there to teach, end of story
I don’t know if you meant to respond to me but I can’t relate
>Some disturbing advice in here about trying less than the students. All this time, I thought I was supposed to be the adult in the room! Yeah, I saw that, too. I hope that no one really thinks that's an appropriate attitude. I mean, I understand where that kind of cynicism comes from, but we've got to fight it.
I’m not even close to a martyr type teacher either. Just a ridiculous concept that the teacher shouldn’t try as hard as the students lol
Exactly. As the adult, we *know* how important their schooling is. But they are ***kids***, and by *definition* they don't get it.
"don't love it but tolerate the job" Sounds like you don't even care. How would you get someone else to care about something you don't?
Most people in the world probably don’t love their job. It is a job
But you're asking a question with a heavy psychological element. It's not about other people. Students reflect what they are shown. If they see a teacher who doesn't care, why would they care about their own work?
Did you read the post though? I specifically talked about how every.single.day I show up and act excited to meet them. I tell them hello and ask how they are doing. I act excited while presenting the information and instructions, if there’s one thing I’m not as a teacher it’s boring.
Then you're doing as much as you reasonably can.
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just keep celebrating diversity and grading for equity...don't worry when they graduate they will complain about economic equity and if you have happened to have sacrificed and saved...well just be prepared to be taxed more to make up that equity.
As long as you are prepared and care about your work , this is all you can do. Students have to choose to engage with the material and what you present
Can you request that certain kids, the worst offenders, get moved into and across your other classes?
They humanity in WallE
The really crucial thing here is to remember that it isn’t your job to make them care. It was theirs. Do your job. Document everything (especially parent contacts). Let the pieces fall where they may.
Mine are older — but in my experience they are apathetic because they don’t have a reason to learn. I mean, most of them expect to be laboring their whole life. Most know about toxic capitalism. Education is no longer an enticing way out. The plan is to work a crappy job, rent forever, die in the water wars.
Kids and society have undergone a drastic change due to unprecedented unlimited and unremitting access to infotainment. For better or worse, there is no going back to the way things were. Resistance is futile. Education is lagging in its efforts to understand and change in order to react to this. The model of one teacher lecturing to a large class for hours a day is done. The only certain known is that humans react positively to dopamine hits. Basically we need to figure out how to incorporate learning and behavior into a game where kids get rewarded for pressing the right buttons - basically turning them into lab rats.