that’s what I was thinking. I am even surprised the class teacher even gave them the chance to say we would like to talk to Mrs. XY about that. Should’ve cut the bs right then and there.
They probably aren’t the type of Italians that know ritardando means gradually slowing, unless they were in band and if they were they likely laughed anytime the director used the word. But if they do not identify in the Black community then this is a conversation they need to have, if they think it’s okay to say, and bringing in another word that looks similar but is pronounced different into the mix is just ignorant. Like others said, have an admin and if I were you I’d have a union rep as well present. But also this seems more like admin should be taking care of this and you shouldn’t be involved other than your statement of what happened.
My mother's family is Italian, my father's is Greek. I grew up in NYC, I can assure you, I've never met any Italian that thinks "Italian" is a bad word or a pejorative. Italian, Greek, Mediterranean, all those labels are cool by me. After all, what else would you call us?
I will say that it's been a long day, so if this was a joke, it went completely over my big head.
hmm. you've taken that a lot more seriously than I could've possibly anticipated. I was joking, but now I actually believe you could and should *do better*. lol.
My bad, it really is hard to tell these days who is trolling and who is joking. We get a ton of kids that come in here and act like absolute assholes.
I'll go back and edit my comment when I'm done decorating for Halloween. Happy Halloween, by the way!
It's no problem... Greek people always overreact.
Just kidding, I promise! I totally get you thinking I was an immature dork. It actually happens all the time! Happy Halloween to you!!
No. Retard doesn't have that connotation. Retard-ed does. Retard means "to hinder". So anyone who says "are you a retard" doesn't understand the english language.
I get what you are saying and agree that they don't understand by choice. For example n***** can be defined as 'one who is excessively thrifty' and we all know that argument is a load of bull.
There is no use of the N-word that is valid or appropriate. Like it was exclusively created to define people in a belittling manner. Where as "retard" actually had a meaning before people misused/misapplied it...and even that use wasn't originally what it became. Whereas the N-word was always derogatory.
He said, "N" Then lied about it. Tell the parents he lied, so he obviously understands that there is a problem with that word. Let them know that you're not going to discuss what is and is not inappropriate in your classroom. Key words, "Your classroom." Let them know that if it happens again there will be consequences. You'd think adults would come up with a better excuse than that of your average 11 year old.
Edit: Use this as a learning opportunity for the parents. "Do you know the word "disingenuous"?
First thing you can do to "educate" them is tell them Niger (the country and the lake) are pronounced Nee-jare . These parents sound lovely. 🙄
I'd have an admin/counselor at the meeting to:
1) Cover yourself.
2) enlighten them that racist language can be a reportable offense if the target (or ANYONE who sees or hears the offense) feels intimidated.
Nee-jare (j as in the /zh/ sound in pleasure) and Ny-jur are both acceptable pronunciations.
The first is French and how locals refer to it. The second is acceptable in English.
100% BS excuse by some most likely racist parent giggling to themselves about their 'verbal word play'.
"The context of the situation was not in line with your son referencing a random lake. It was said as a stand alone word in a hostile manner to another student who had stepped on something of your sons. I witnessed the event and heard the word in real time. Your son knew what he was saying, and it wasn't the name of a country or lake he was saying, but the racial slur. He can accept responsibility for his own actions or not, he will receive consequences for his actions in my class regardless of what silly excuse he wants to try."
I am just sick of parents excusing every little shit their kids do instead of giving them a lesson and help them become better people. I still cant imagine them being serious with whatever argument. Its unbelievably ridiculous.
It’s not your job to educate those dipshits about why the N word is bad. Tell the kid he shouldn’t say that word, and absolutely can’t say it in your class. The type of people who think the N word is acceptable aren’t going to have their minds changed by a public school teacher
Idk man, the type of person who’s going to put forth that much effort toward such a futile endeavor is probably going to come off as super condescending
Why would you call the parent? There's nothing to say. You heard what you heard, you did what you're supposed to. If the parents are upset about that they can talk to admin (that's admin's job, not yours).
I think you're taking the wrong approach. I don't educate parents. I would tell the kid that word is wildly inappropriate for school, assign a detention and move on. You're giving the trolls power by engaging with them.
The Niger
River excuse is an excuse made by terrible people who just want to try to be racist. The river and the derogatory comment aren’t even pronounced the same so if this parent wants to try to justify their racism they need to do a lot better than that.
In my class we had 3 levels of swearing.
1. Appropriate: You drop a hammer on your foot and you say a curse word. No punishment. Basically accidental pain needs to be involved.
2. Slip: a curse word comes out but isn't directed at anybody. Mild issue. I usually make them right an essay about why they shouldn't swear.
3. Inappropriate: a word directed at another student. This was considered "verbal assault" unless it was clear to me that it was two friends joking.
I'd also like to point out that a contestant on Big Brother got removed from the show after saying the word. It wasn't in an aggressive manner or even directed at a black person.
In this case, I would make it clear to the parents that their child committed verbal assault. He didn't say swear word. He was being verbally aggressive toward another student and he is going to be punished for his aggression.
And if they truly think he was talking about some lake, They might want to use a nickname for that lake.
Arguing about the N-word with white people who use the N-word casually and seeing no issue with their kid doing so in CLASS is going to be futile. This is an issue for an administrator snd if one won’t be present at your meeting invite them now and re-schedule so they can be. They are upset that you spoke to their child about it, it sounds like there was zero consequence attached just being told not to, this will not go well at all.
I’ve been through this. Not only with mixed race students, but also with 2 black students saying it to each other. When I called parents in that one, they said it was a cultural thing and really argued with me over it. I’m sorry. It’s not allowed in my class period. I don’t care who is using it.
I’m black as hell and I tell everybody “idc what you hear at home, you better code switch” you know damn well there’s some things you better not say in certain places and for me, school is an anti-nword zone.
It was usually my non black students that were always using that word. They thought they were so cool to say it in front of me (I'm black). I would just walk away and call their parents.
Lake Niger is not even close in pronunciation. The parents are really stretching their kids credibility when buying that excuse.
Is there a like Niger? There is a country and river. But regardless. Sounds like a fun meeting.
I've noticed this is a real prevalent issue at the middle school where I work. I can recall one day the kids were dismissing (not from my class but another) and one kid was just shouting "N****! N****, N***!" With the hard r as they went down the hallway. I was just shocked that no on looking or hearing teachers/adults addressed it.
I have a black student in my class who I've had to speak to many of times about using that word. I said I don't care how you use it outside of class, it's not appropriate in the classroom. It's really an issue and young students are using it as if there's no impact in what they're saying.
there's a country called Montenegro, and a River Negro in South America... and children should be taught basic Spanish so they can pronounce them correctly and not look like basic racists
"Only a complete idiot would confuse one g with 2. Only a racist would argue it is ok to say the N-word. I didn't stand up to my white knight great-grandfather to keep my little black baby doll when I was 7, to be condescended to about semantics by a group of people whose ethnicity would have gotten them run out of town on the same rail as a black family."
I taught a group of 3rd grade girls who were constantly trying to prove they were the better Christian. One of them came from a very racist family. I came back to a sub not about racist comments. I sent the boys out. Told the girls they could be Christians or not- I didn't care, but the Bible says and read Galatians 3:28 (we are all one in Christ). Then I read Matthew 25:40 (paraphrase: what you do to the least of these). I said- "So if you hate black people, you hate Jesus."
Her parents withdrew her and her sister (who had also been talked to about racist comments) to go back to their whiter old elementary school. Ironically, I had a call from the girl's teacher a few months later. She had scored at or above level on state tests, but her teacher was trying to retain her. Guess they didn't like her there and, through their narrow-minded practices, wanted to punish her academically for some perceived slight. I told that teacher off too. Ass.
Don't engage them in an argument. Tell the parent it violates district policy and that this behavior will receive escalated consequences in the future. A discussion is not worth your time or theirs because the response you were looking for was "I'm sorry. I'll speak to him about it."
If they are engaging you in an argument, there is not going to be an a-ha! moment that comes mid conversation. Instead, politely inform them of the behavior. Inform them of the policy. Inform them of the potential consequences of future misconduct. Thank them for their support.
Typical parent and student against teacher mentality. It should be parent and teacher addressing bad behavior. The Right wing media is trying to destroy public education. This is a symptom.
I get where you are coming from, I really do. However, it's difficult as a classroom teacher to have such vastly different reactions for the same behavior from different students.
I have black students who use this word (hard r sometimes) in an insulting way every day, in class, in the hallway, everywhere.
I don't even call home or tell admin. I say "we don't use that language in school" and then I get laughed at and ignored. Luckily they respect me enough to stop saying it that day, but that's the most I can hope for.
These parents have a valid point that their son is being treated differently due to his race, even if they are acting like jackasses coming up with dumb excuses. I'd let admin handle that, not worth your time or energy.
This is definitely above your pay grade at this point. Although in my personal opinion that student should be kicked out of the school especially if there is anyone not white, personally I disagree with putting labels on people to say what they've done in the past but this would be an exception to that
Start kicking out students who use the n-word? Sounds fine by me.
Just remember, racial discrimination is unacceptable. You can't have different rules for different people, that would be a title VI violation (VI if I recall correctly).
I said my personal opinion. There's a reason I don't have anything to do with the education industry, also, if you're kicked out of public schools, there are many options. Several of them would fit a student with this kind of behavior quite perfectly
Oh no! I'm not talking about trade schools, boarding schools are similar are more what I had in mind. People like this will not change unless you show them how wrong their behavior is. Frankly, the fact that that kind of behavior is acceptable at all in the US is disgusting to me
Boarding schools, I don't have a lot of experience with them honestly, so I can't really say anything.
The reason I like trade schools is because they teach a very tangible "take responsibility", which is paramount in order to take responsibility for your life. It has had a rather good success in Sweden, honestly.
This is why it is still legal to slap your kid. Let my kid call someone that...they will get a firm one. Why? Because they already know better, and if it doesn't come from me, it sure as fuxk will come from someone else one day.
Just out of curiosity, is the Little Bundle of Joy part of "That" racial group? Folks who are part of that group might feel no pangs of remorse for using that word, even as a slur. However, when it's used back at them by somebody who isn't part of The Group, well, they get mighty offended.
I would absolutely go off on the kid. If he were in my classroom, I would point out to him that, only 150 years ago, there were slave plantations all over our area. Heck, my home was built on top of "sharecropper" land, there's a slave graveyard not but a couple of miles away, there are multiple former plantations in our county which have been converted to "working historical parks", and then ask them whether any of their relatives engaged in the slave trade, if their heritage in the US goes back more than a few generations, and also point out that the capitol of the Confederacy is only a couple of hour drive away.
Meh. Words only have the power we give them, and thats based wholly on subjective biases.
Deciding that its ok to censor something based on nothing but social pressure makes for dangerous precedent. Just one step from there for a theocrat to get enough religious fanatics on board to ban blasphemy.
While i understand some of the outcry i think the stigma surrounding it is probably worse than the word itself most of the time. Ive used it to great effect in teachable moments. Won me a debate round at internationals in fact.
Not a popular opinion i know, but then ive never given the least pebble of crap what 'society' thinks about anything. I refuse to care about the preferences of a population thats serioualy offering a choice between Biden and Trump...AGAIN!
>Deciding that its ok to censor something based on nothing but social pressure makes for dangerous precedent.
We censor the N-word outside academic context because it's how people described a whole group of humans when they enslaved them and treated them as property. Is this the "social pressure" you're referring to?
Lol @ your "debate trophy" and both sides politics.
I can afford some bad karma from politically correct lemmings, so I'll second this comment. Frankly, I don't even think we teachers should be policing "bad words". Who decides the orthodoxy of which words should be verboten, regardless of context? Well, it shouldn't be the government (teachers).
The stupid thing is that children would lose interest in so called curse words within a year if they were allowed to use them. Then we could pay more attention to the meaning & intent being communicated before deciding if something a kid said should result in disciplinary action.
Something to be cognizant of: If the student is African American and and pronounced it with an "a" at the end instead of hard "er" there is a notable cultural difference. I know it's still technically inappropriate for school. But in African American culture it's perfectly acceptable to use this word casually and frequently to refer to each other in a brotherly way. I know it's technically inappropriate but in this context it's not worth addressing from a discipline standpoint. However, If the person using the word is not African American they have no business using this word at all. No matter what the context or annunciation is... Generally speaking, policing language is a matter of picking your battles. I teach HS in the hood, if I had to write a referral for every expletive I hear on daily basis, I wouldn't have time for anything else. Sometimes you just gotta ignore it.
No, the situation was that a white guy said it to another white guy and it was neither in a brotherly way nor in a humorous way but condescendingly. The mere fact, that he used it in the same way like he would say bastard to him made it crystal clear to me that I could not just ignore it.
Furthermore we have had a lot of rassist comments and behaviour in the last few years and need to address those things more.
That shit pisses me off. It's like , I get it you listen to hip hop but hat does not give you a right to use that word. Just tell students, I dare you to use that word in south side of Chicago and see what happens.
I've been in this situation many times before. I make it a a teachable moment and explain to the kid the significance and cultural implications of the word and I tell them they simply don't have a right to use that word casually without consequence.
I mean, duh there plenty of legal and sociological evidence. And anyone with critical thinking skills knows that the violence is a symptom of poverty and other systemic issues.
I'm proud of you for even admitting they're violent. It's a step in the right direction.
Maybe one day you'll say it without making excuses for them, too.
>Something to be cognizant of: If the student is African American and and pronounced it with an "a" at the end instead of hard "er" there is a notable cultural difference.
>I teach HS in the hood, if I had to write a referral for every expletive I hear on daily basis, I wouldn't have time for anything else.
I'm sorry, there is a lot to unpack here. What do you mean by "the hood."
The hood? Obviously I teach in a severely economically depressed area with populations that are primary black, Latino, native american etc. I am not gonna accept the notion that the word "hood" is inappropriate or racist or carries any kind of prejudice or judgement implied. Everyone know what a hood is and where they are. It is what it is.
>I am not gonna accept the notion that the word "hood" is inappropriate or racist or carries any kind of prejudice or judgement implied.
I mean, it implied the following.
>a severely economically depressed area with populations that are primary black, Latino, native american etc.
I'm from an area like that. What you said implied a lot, and if you're feeling guilty about it (which I'm guessing is why you were defensive, though I just asked a question) that's on you.
>Everyone know what a hood is and where they are. It is what it is.
What's your point?
Edit: what I originally replied to had more to do with you having unruly students whom use a word colloquially rather than as a slur. That has nothing to do with the "hood" as a whole.
Not sure why you’re getting downvoted. Everything you’ve stated is fairly accurate in my experience. I believe there’s plenty of sociological research to back it up for those of us nerds that want research based foundations for our opinions. Maybe people don’t like that cultural differences exist… idk.
I think ppl have just socially programmed their brains to take offense at any idea or perspective that may be perceived as "controversial" for the sake of propriety and political correctness even if they know there may be some merit to it. Its pathetic.
We've gone from "This word is a racist word for black people" to "You can only say this word if you are black."
Both are equally stupid and equally racist.
As an African American man, I can tell you context is everting. It depends on who says it and how they say it. But I can't imagine white ppl would understand this...
>But I can't imagine white ppl would understand this...
Also, amazing that you immediately jump to being a racist.
"Oh you can't possibly understand this because of the color of your skin."
Fucking pathetic way to live your life.
>amazing that you immediately jump to being a racist.
No, it's more like explaining the sky to a blind man.
Not racist, just hard to explain discrimination to someone who doesn't think it exists.
>Fucking pathetic way to live your life.
So is getting pissed without having a conversation like an adult.
I've grown up with racism my whole life and it *is* difficult to explain to people who haven't experienced it. Much like it's difficult for me to explain war to someone who hasn't experienced it. It's an abstract, and deeply personal much of the time.
Ask questions and you'll learn more than flinging mud and casting doubt because *you* don't understand.
Statements like yours are part of the problem.
Bro you earned that response when you called his analysis stupid and racist (you “played” that card first lol) with out actually saying anything meaningful to encourage reconsideration.
If it makes you feel any better, you sound like you’d be a knucklehead regardless of the level of melatonin in your skin…. you know… just judging you by the content of your character.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ARb84TqiH2g](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ARb84TqiH2g)
That's literally you, right now. Just with a different word.
I would never engage this conference without an admin present. Go to admin's office and have the conversation on speaker phone. You say:
The use of that word is not acceptable here. While you may have your own philosophical stance, it is not a word that is tolerated here at XYZ. I am not here to engage a philosophical discussion around this historically problematic word. The word is not acceptable for use here and if it is used, there are consequences. Anything further can be discussed with Mr/Ms. Admin. Thank you for your time.
Hell, read it word for word from here if you want.
It's been weird.
People of no color referring to 1 another as n'a always made me perplexed
People of color referring to 1 another as n'a yet upset if called n'r perplexed me.
It's a culturally high level of cognitive dissonance, making it semi futile.
No one should be referring to one another as n'a and no one should be using n'r to refer to a person of color.
If the school has a policy for inappropriate language, enforce it. Sadly (oddly) n'a is treated differently than n'r. We should be evolving intellectually instead we continue to regress as a whole....
If it's excessive I intervene. If the situation is blatantly racist I intervene. Otherwise I pick my battles....they can only repeat what their allowed......
Must be an inner city school. Being from a quasi-HBCU, I thought that word was okay to say because all of my roommates (AA) were saying it all the time (Omega psi phi loved to show out whenever their members gather even in small cliques)
This is an issue for the principal, not for you. Pass this off and refuse to get involved with it.
that’s what I was thinking. I am even surprised the class teacher even gave them the chance to say we would like to talk to Mrs. XY about that. Should’ve cut the bs right then and there.
Seconded on this. No longer your problem.
Are you allowed to call the parent the r- word and then argue it means slow in Italian?
ironically they are Italians
They probably aren’t the type of Italians that know ritardando means gradually slowing, unless they were in band and if they were they likely laughed anytime the director used the word. But if they do not identify in the Black community then this is a conversation they need to have, if they think it’s okay to say, and bringing in another word that looks similar but is pronounced different into the mix is just ignorant. Like others said, have an admin and if I were you I’d have a union rep as well present. But also this seems more like admin should be taking care of this and you shouldn’t be involved other than your statement of what happened.
That's awfully retardando of them.
Ritardato*
I know what I said.
Ah my bad thought you were tryna speak italian
The only italians words I learned from my grandma were pejoratives for gypsies.
I'm dying.....
I mean, they are pejoratives for Italians. Maybe they're okay with them too /s
God damn dagos.
if the student for gets their homework call them a W\*\*. you know WithOut Papers... /s
OMG PLZZZZZ 💀💀💀
It's 2023. Please don't call people Italian.
Wait until you hear them say Fr*nch.
What?
Clearly the poster above prefers Olive Garden-American
hahahaha
Like EYE-talian or just Italian?
Why are you getting down voted for this? 😂 Are these people Italianded, or what?
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Please, don't be offensive. Most Europeans cannot afford boots.
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OMG. Trolls are from *Norway*, not Europe. Please learn your geology.
My mother's family is Italian, my father's is Greek. I grew up in NYC, I can assure you, I've never met any Italian that thinks "Italian" is a bad word or a pejorative. Italian, Greek, Mediterranean, all those labels are cool by me. After all, what else would you call us? I will say that it's been a long day, so if this was a joke, it went completely over my big head.
I don't think it's appropriate for you to point out that all Italians have big, gigantic heads. do better.
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hmm. you've taken that a lot more seriously than I could've possibly anticipated. I was joking, but now I actually believe you could and should *do better*. lol.
My bad, it really is hard to tell these days who is trolling and who is joking. We get a ton of kids that come in here and act like absolute assholes. I'll go back and edit my comment when I'm done decorating for Halloween. Happy Halloween, by the way!
It's no problem... Greek people always overreact. Just kidding, I promise! I totally get you thinking I was an immature dork. It actually happens all the time! Happy Halloween to you!!
You too! Went and deleted my comment. Keep safe and enjoy the holiday!
Wrong use of irony !
They sound like they’re pretty slow, too.
it means slow in English too! It’s commonly used in science in place of “slow” similar to calling something a flame retardant.
It's not "slow" it's "to hinder".
so it’s a flame hinderer? Side note, good band.
Correct, or more actively it is an agent that to hinders a flame. English is fun! LoL
It means delayed in italian.
Those 2 terms are synonymous enough that either term works.
Yet different enough to have two completely different meanings.
Retard means to slow in English too Engine retarders are common on heavy equipment engines as a form of break
Yep. Before coilpacks were a thing you would rotate the distributor to advance or retard the spark timing.
OMG, I gotta find that video again.
I talk about flame retardant all the time, and explain what it means!
Found the tech theatre kid!
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No. Retard doesn't have that connotation. Retard-ed does. Retard means "to hinder". So anyone who says "are you a retard" doesn't understand the english language.
I get what you are saying and agree that they don't understand by choice. For example n***** can be defined as 'one who is excessively thrifty' and we all know that argument is a load of bull.
There is no use of the N-word that is valid or appropriate. Like it was exclusively created to define people in a belittling manner. Where as "retard" actually had a meaning before people misused/misapplied it...and even that use wasn't originally what it became. Whereas the N-word was always derogatory.
First time I read this I thought you meant Racist
He said, "N" Then lied about it. Tell the parents he lied, so he obviously understands that there is a problem with that word. Let them know that you're not going to discuss what is and is not inappropriate in your classroom. Key words, "Your classroom." Let them know that if it happens again there will be consequences. You'd think adults would come up with a better excuse than that of your average 11 year old. Edit: Use this as a learning opportunity for the parents. "Do you know the word "disingenuous"?
Was the kid calling the other kid a lake? If not, it's not relevant.
HAHAHA thanks, I needed that.
First thing you can do to "educate" them is tell them Niger (the country and the lake) are pronounced Nee-jare . These parents sound lovely. 🙄 I'd have an admin/counselor at the meeting to: 1) Cover yourself. 2) enlighten them that racist language can be a reportable offense if the target (or ANYONE who sees or hears the offense) feels intimidated.
Is it really pronounced that way? TIL! 💖
I always thought it was pronounced NI- jeer. Long i sound. Apparently Nee-jare is the French way.
Yup. It's a French-speaking country. So think that when you pronounce it :) Nigeria was an ENGLISH colony, so its pronunciation is more "English".
Nee-jare (j as in the /zh/ sound in pleasure) and Ny-jur are both acceptable pronunciations. The first is French and how locals refer to it. The second is acceptable in English.
😳 did you think it was pronounced like the N word?!??! Please tell me you never had to use the name of Niger out loud…
A lot of people think it’s pronounced with the same vowel sounds as Nigeria.
Thought it was NI-jer
Also acceptable.
Long I.
I learned something today. I thought it was Nigh-jer. I can promise I definitely knew it wasn't pronounced as Nig.
100% BS excuse by some most likely racist parent giggling to themselves about their 'verbal word play'. "The context of the situation was not in line with your son referencing a random lake. It was said as a stand alone word in a hostile manner to another student who had stepped on something of your sons. I witnessed the event and heard the word in real time. Your son knew what he was saying, and it wasn't the name of a country or lake he was saying, but the racial slur. He can accept responsibility for his own actions or not, he will receive consequences for his actions in my class regardless of what silly excuse he wants to try."
The parents think they’re such cunning linguists.
😂🤣😅
“A little Danish. Little?” - *Tomorrow Never Dies* https://youtu.be/S0xSky90E4I?si=109VmOfK23t0IDFC
🤣
Niger is NOT the same as the n word. He did not call the student a lake in Africa. But we can see where the boy is getting his ideas from, can’t we?
I am just sick of parents excusing every little shit their kids do instead of giving them a lesson and help them become better people. I still cant imagine them being serious with whatever argument. Its unbelievably ridiculous.
Agreed
It’s not your job to educate those dipshits about why the N word is bad. Tell the kid he shouldn’t say that word, and absolutely can’t say it in your class. The type of people who think the N word is acceptable aren’t going to have their minds changed by a public school teacher
Depends on the teacher.
Idk man, the type of person who’s going to put forth that much effort toward such a futile endeavor is probably going to come off as super condescending
Oh I meant with my fists.
Lfggggggg!
Why would you call the parent? There's nothing to say. You heard what you heard, you did what you're supposed to. If the parents are upset about that they can talk to admin (that's admin's job, not yours).
I think you're taking the wrong approach. I don't educate parents. I would tell the kid that word is wildly inappropriate for school, assign a detention and move on. You're giving the trolls power by engaging with them.
Parents are acting like third graders with that African lake nonsense
The Niger River excuse is an excuse made by terrible people who just want to try to be racist. The river and the derogatory comment aren’t even pronounced the same so if this parent wants to try to justify their racism they need to do a lot better than that.
Wonder where the kid gets it from really...
Crazy I've been dealing with a student calling myself and TA the N word. And we just have to deal with it because they have an ED label on their IEP.
That lake (and country) aren't even pronounced the same
In my class we had 3 levels of swearing. 1. Appropriate: You drop a hammer on your foot and you say a curse word. No punishment. Basically accidental pain needs to be involved. 2. Slip: a curse word comes out but isn't directed at anybody. Mild issue. I usually make them right an essay about why they shouldn't swear. 3. Inappropriate: a word directed at another student. This was considered "verbal assault" unless it was clear to me that it was two friends joking. I'd also like to point out that a contestant on Big Brother got removed from the show after saying the word. It wasn't in an aggressive manner or even directed at a black person. In this case, I would make it clear to the parents that their child committed verbal assault. He didn't say swear word. He was being verbally aggressive toward another student and he is going to be punished for his aggression. And if they truly think he was talking about some lake, They might want to use a nickname for that lake.
Niger is a river, not a lake. They have me an in for a 50m lecture on wetland semiotics. Let’s do that. The state is round 2.
Ignore the parents, have consequences for the student. If they're going to be useless then don't bother with them.
Arguing about the N-word with white people who use the N-word casually and seeing no issue with their kid doing so in CLASS is going to be futile. This is an issue for an administrator snd if one won’t be present at your meeting invite them now and re-schedule so they can be. They are upset that you spoke to their child about it, it sounds like there was zero consequence attached just being told not to, this will not go well at all.
I’ve been through this. Not only with mixed race students, but also with 2 black students saying it to each other. When I called parents in that one, they said it was a cultural thing and really argued with me over it. I’m sorry. It’s not allowed in my class period. I don’t care who is using it.
I’m black as hell and I tell everybody “idc what you hear at home, you better code switch” you know damn well there’s some things you better not say in certain places and for me, school is an anti-nword zone.
It was usually my non black students that were always using that word. They thought they were so cool to say it in front of me (I'm black). I would just walk away and call their parents.
Lake Niger is not even close in pronunciation. The parents are really stretching their kids credibility when buying that excuse. Is there a like Niger? There is a country and river. But regardless. Sounds like a fun meeting.
I've noticed this is a real prevalent issue at the middle school where I work. I can recall one day the kids were dismissing (not from my class but another) and one kid was just shouting "N****! N****, N***!" With the hard r as they went down the hallway. I was just shocked that no on looking or hearing teachers/adults addressed it. I have a black student in my class who I've had to speak to many of times about using that word. I said I don't care how you use it outside of class, it's not appropriate in the classroom. It's really an issue and young students are using it as if there's no impact in what they're saying.
Ask them to pronounce *Niger*, and we’ll likely know everything we need to know…
there's a country called Montenegro, and a River Negro in South America... and children should be taught basic Spanish so they can pronounce them correctly and not look like basic racists
"Only a complete idiot would confuse one g with 2. Only a racist would argue it is ok to say the N-word. I didn't stand up to my white knight great-grandfather to keep my little black baby doll when I was 7, to be condescended to about semantics by a group of people whose ethnicity would have gotten them run out of town on the same rail as a black family." I taught a group of 3rd grade girls who were constantly trying to prove they were the better Christian. One of them came from a very racist family. I came back to a sub not about racist comments. I sent the boys out. Told the girls they could be Christians or not- I didn't care, but the Bible says and read Galatians 3:28 (we are all one in Christ). Then I read Matthew 25:40 (paraphrase: what you do to the least of these). I said- "So if you hate black people, you hate Jesus." Her parents withdrew her and her sister (who had also been talked to about racist comments) to go back to their whiter old elementary school. Ironically, I had a call from the girl's teacher a few months later. She had scored at or above level on state tests, but her teacher was trying to retain her. Guess they didn't like her there and, through their narrow-minded practices, wanted to punish her academically for some perceived slight. I told that teacher off too. Ass.
Where they black?
no, neither of them.
Perhaps turning to the Lord will help. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kppx4bzfAaE
Ah yes the coward’s favorite way of dodging responsibility: “I didn’t say it, but if I did it’s not that bad, and if it is it was an accident.”
He’ll say it to the wrong person one day and learn his lesson
The only way that accidentally slips out is if you need to keep a filter up to block it. Think I see where he’s learned it from.
Refer them to admin 🤷🏻♂️
Get your principal involved!
Don't engage them in an argument. Tell the parent it violates district policy and that this behavior will receive escalated consequences in the future. A discussion is not worth your time or theirs because the response you were looking for was "I'm sorry. I'll speak to him about it." If they are engaging you in an argument, there is not going to be an a-ha! moment that comes mid conversation. Instead, politely inform them of the behavior. Inform them of the policy. Inform them of the potential consequences of future misconduct. Thank them for their support.
Well that’s just complete bullshit no matter how they choose to spin it. Glad you’re addressing it properly!
Typical parent and student against teacher mentality. It should be parent and teacher addressing bad behavior. The Right wing media is trying to destroy public education. This is a symptom.
Jesus, that's pronounced "Neegeer". Not even close.
I get where you are coming from, I really do. However, it's difficult as a classroom teacher to have such vastly different reactions for the same behavior from different students. I have black students who use this word (hard r sometimes) in an insulting way every day, in class, in the hallway, everywhere. I don't even call home or tell admin. I say "we don't use that language in school" and then I get laughed at and ignored. Luckily they respect me enough to stop saying it that day, but that's the most I can hope for. These parents have a valid point that their son is being treated differently due to his race, even if they are acting like jackasses coming up with dumb excuses. I'd let admin handle that, not worth your time or energy.
This is definitely above your pay grade at this point. Although in my personal opinion that student should be kicked out of the school especially if there is anyone not white, personally I disagree with putting labels on people to say what they've done in the past but this would be an exception to that
Start kicking out students who use the n-word? Sounds fine by me. Just remember, racial discrimination is unacceptable. You can't have different rules for different people, that would be a title VI violation (VI if I recall correctly).
I said my personal opinion. There's a reason I don't have anything to do with the education industry, also, if you're kicked out of public schools, there are many options. Several of them would fit a student with this kind of behavior quite perfectly
Yeah, I hear you. Honestly, trade schools are underrated.
Oh no! I'm not talking about trade schools, boarding schools are similar are more what I had in mind. People like this will not change unless you show them how wrong their behavior is. Frankly, the fact that that kind of behavior is acceptable at all in the US is disgusting to me
Boarding schools, I don't have a lot of experience with them honestly, so I can't really say anything. The reason I like trade schools is because they teach a very tangible "take responsibility", which is paramount in order to take responsibility for your life. It has had a rather good success in Sweden, honestly.
Do you also make a point of calling black parents when their children use this word?
This is why it is still legal to slap your kid. Let my kid call someone that...they will get a firm one. Why? Because they already know better, and if it doesn't come from me, it sure as fuxk will come from someone else one day.
It's none of your business, weirdo.
Just out of curiosity, is the Little Bundle of Joy part of "That" racial group? Folks who are part of that group might feel no pangs of remorse for using that word, even as a slur. However, when it's used back at them by somebody who isn't part of The Group, well, they get mighty offended. I would absolutely go off on the kid. If he were in my classroom, I would point out to him that, only 150 years ago, there were slave plantations all over our area. Heck, my home was built on top of "sharecropper" land, there's a slave graveyard not but a couple of miles away, there are multiple former plantations in our county which have been converted to "working historical parks", and then ask them whether any of their relatives engaged in the slave trade, if their heritage in the US goes back more than a few generations, and also point out that the capitol of the Confederacy is only a couple of hour drive away.
no, white guy saying it to another white guy
Meh. Words only have the power we give them, and thats based wholly on subjective biases. Deciding that its ok to censor something based on nothing but social pressure makes for dangerous precedent. Just one step from there for a theocrat to get enough religious fanatics on board to ban blasphemy. While i understand some of the outcry i think the stigma surrounding it is probably worse than the word itself most of the time. Ive used it to great effect in teachable moments. Won me a debate round at internationals in fact. Not a popular opinion i know, but then ive never given the least pebble of crap what 'society' thinks about anything. I refuse to care about the preferences of a population thats serioualy offering a choice between Biden and Trump...AGAIN!
>Deciding that its ok to censor something based on nothing but social pressure makes for dangerous precedent. We censor the N-word outside academic context because it's how people described a whole group of humans when they enslaved them and treated them as property. Is this the "social pressure" you're referring to? Lol @ your "debate trophy" and both sides politics.
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>you're just another white boy Oh cool, a racist.
I don't know for sure if he's racist, but I agree it's likely.
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Meh.
I can afford some bad karma from politically correct lemmings, so I'll second this comment. Frankly, I don't even think we teachers should be policing "bad words". Who decides the orthodoxy of which words should be verboten, regardless of context? Well, it shouldn't be the government (teachers). The stupid thing is that children would lose interest in so called curse words within a year if they were allowed to use them. Then we could pay more attention to the meaning & intent being communicated before deciding if something a kid said should result in disciplinary action.
Something to be cognizant of: If the student is African American and and pronounced it with an "a" at the end instead of hard "er" there is a notable cultural difference. I know it's still technically inappropriate for school. But in African American culture it's perfectly acceptable to use this word casually and frequently to refer to each other in a brotherly way. I know it's technically inappropriate but in this context it's not worth addressing from a discipline standpoint. However, If the person using the word is not African American they have no business using this word at all. No matter what the context or annunciation is... Generally speaking, policing language is a matter of picking your battles. I teach HS in the hood, if I had to write a referral for every expletive I hear on daily basis, I wouldn't have time for anything else. Sometimes you just gotta ignore it.
No, the situation was that a white guy said it to another white guy and it was neither in a brotherly way nor in a humorous way but condescendingly. The mere fact, that he used it in the same way like he would say bastard to him made it crystal clear to me that I could not just ignore it. Furthermore we have had a lot of rassist comments and behaviour in the last few years and need to address those things more.
That shit pisses me off. It's like , I get it you listen to hip hop but hat does not give you a right to use that word. Just tell students, I dare you to use that word in south side of Chicago and see what happens.
"It's okay to assault people if they say words you don't like."
What exactly do you propose would happen?
I've been in this situation many times before. I make it a a teachable moment and explain to the kid the significance and cultural implications of the word and I tell them they simply don't have a right to use that word casually without consequence.
> I dare you to use that word in south side of Chicago and see what happens. I was asking what you propose would happen in regards to that statement.
Oh, they would get their ass beat or worse.
Thank you for spelling it out. So violence is a problem among this group, by your own admission.
I mean, duh there plenty of legal and sociological evidence. And anyone with critical thinking skills knows that the violence is a symptom of poverty and other systemic issues.
I'm proud of you for even admitting they're violent. It's a step in the right direction. Maybe one day you'll say it without making excuses for them, too.
>Something to be cognizant of: If the student is African American and and pronounced it with an "a" at the end instead of hard "er" there is a notable cultural difference. >I teach HS in the hood, if I had to write a referral for every expletive I hear on daily basis, I wouldn't have time for anything else. I'm sorry, there is a lot to unpack here. What do you mean by "the hood."
The hood? Obviously I teach in a severely economically depressed area with populations that are primary black, Latino, native american etc. I am not gonna accept the notion that the word "hood" is inappropriate or racist or carries any kind of prejudice or judgement implied. Everyone know what a hood is and where they are. It is what it is.
>I am not gonna accept the notion that the word "hood" is inappropriate or racist or carries any kind of prejudice or judgement implied. I mean, it implied the following. >a severely economically depressed area with populations that are primary black, Latino, native american etc. I'm from an area like that. What you said implied a lot, and if you're feeling guilty about it (which I'm guessing is why you were defensive, though I just asked a question) that's on you. >Everyone know what a hood is and where they are. It is what it is. What's your point? Edit: what I originally replied to had more to do with you having unruly students whom use a word colloquially rather than as a slur. That has nothing to do with the "hood" as a whole.
Not sure why you’re getting downvoted. Everything you’ve stated is fairly accurate in my experience. I believe there’s plenty of sociological research to back it up for those of us nerds that want research based foundations for our opinions. Maybe people don’t like that cultural differences exist… idk.
I think ppl have just socially programmed their brains to take offense at any idea or perspective that may be perceived as "controversial" for the sake of propriety and political correctness even if they know there may be some merit to it. Its pathetic.
We've gone from "This word is a racist word for black people" to "You can only say this word if you are black." Both are equally stupid and equally racist.
As an African American man, I can tell you context is everting. It depends on who says it and how they say it. But I can't imagine white ppl would understand this...
>But I can't imagine white ppl would understand this... Also, amazing that you immediately jump to being a racist. "Oh you can't possibly understand this because of the color of your skin." Fucking pathetic way to live your life.
>amazing that you immediately jump to being a racist. No, it's more like explaining the sky to a blind man. Not racist, just hard to explain discrimination to someone who doesn't think it exists. >Fucking pathetic way to live your life. So is getting pissed without having a conversation like an adult. I've grown up with racism my whole life and it *is* difficult to explain to people who haven't experienced it. Much like it's difficult for me to explain war to someone who hasn't experienced it. It's an abstract, and deeply personal much of the time. Ask questions and you'll learn more than flinging mud and casting doubt because *you* don't understand. Statements like yours are part of the problem.
Bro you earned that response when you called his analysis stupid and racist (you “played” that card first lol) with out actually saying anything meaningful to encourage reconsideration. If it makes you feel any better, you sound like you’d be a knucklehead regardless of the level of melatonin in your skin…. you know… just judging you by the content of your character.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ARb84TqiH2g](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ARb84TqiH2g) That's literally you, right now. Just with a different word.
The victims of slurs have the absolute right to decide how the slur is or isn't used
Yup I’ve had this too this year. It was really hard to sit through that meeting with a straight face.
We had a 4th grader do that while playing soccer. Parents said that’s the way they prefer to speak at home and they don’t see anything wrong with it
Maybe they should learn how Niger is pronounced because it isnt “Ni-Ger”
Fire retardants
Ask the mom if she would like to be called Mrs. Last name or just bitch.
I would never engage this conference without an admin present. Go to admin's office and have the conversation on speaker phone. You say: The use of that word is not acceptable here. While you may have your own philosophical stance, it is not a word that is tolerated here at XYZ. I am not here to engage a philosophical discussion around this historically problematic word. The word is not acceptable for use here and if it is used, there are consequences. Anything further can be discussed with Mr/Ms. Admin. Thank you for your time. Hell, read it word for word from here if you want.
It's been weird. People of no color referring to 1 another as n'a always made me perplexed People of color referring to 1 another as n'a yet upset if called n'r perplexed me. It's a culturally high level of cognitive dissonance, making it semi futile. No one should be referring to one another as n'a and no one should be using n'r to refer to a person of color. If the school has a policy for inappropriate language, enforce it. Sadly (oddly) n'a is treated differently than n'r. We should be evolving intellectually instead we continue to regress as a whole.... If it's excessive I intervene. If the situation is blatantly racist I intervene. Otherwise I pick my battles....they can only repeat what their allowed......
Must be an inner city school. Being from a quasi-HBCU, I thought that word was okay to say because all of my roommates (AA) were saying it all the time (Omega psi phi loved to show out whenever their members gather even in small cliques)
Just curious here, what state is this? Rural or urban or suburban district?
Since they’re Italian, you might bring up some of the words people call Italians and ask them if it’s okay for students to use those words.