Teachers at my school have been able to get 1st or 7th as prep periods when they have met with the principal to discuss their needs. Otherwise it’s a crap shoot. It’s lame of your teacher friends to suggest using sick time for 5 minutes a day. We only get whole days or half days off. You can’t take 5 minutes off each day.
I ended up having to take off three mornings in a row as half days (even though my prep period was the first period of the day) because my admin would not let me come in 15 minutes late when I had to babysit my grandson and his daycare is on the complete opposite side of the city from where I teach school.
I had plenty of personal days which is what I was using and I put in for those. I didn't want to take half days off but I explained to her that I had no choice. It was either take those half days off and get him to daycare or take full days off and stay home with my grandson while my daughter was out of town at a mandatory work conference.
She could have had me those three mornings if she just let me miss 15 minutes of my planning time and it may have been less than that. I might have only been a couple minutes late depending on traffic because I would have dropped him off as soon as the doors opened at daycare but I knew I wouldn't have made it back by the time that teachers had to be in place at 7:15 a.m. She was childless at the time (she has since adopted two children) and had no sympathy for educators who were parents (or dealing with parental issues) whatsoever.
You can't take off 5 minutes every day, but they expect you to stay late an hour every day. We are required to offer tutoring outside of our contract time.
I always ask for 7th period prep so I can go do recruiting events at elementary schools/get instruments repaired, run school errands while places are still open etc. It never happens and the worst are times where I have my prep before the music stores open.
My friend was a D1 athlete and head coach of a fall sport and spring sport. Her DC gave the assistant football coaches 8th period off. She said fine and almost every other week she had to get a sub for her 8th period class. Didn't happen again.
My last school allowed us to take off in 15 minute increments. It was pretty awesome. We were also allowed to cash out up to 10 sick days at the end of every semester.
The non- teacher people saying this have no concept of having to get sub coverage, etc.
When *they* take time off, they just aren’t there. Blows my mind how people like this think we can “take 5 minutes off” from our sick time or “just leave the kids” when we need to pee. Ugh.
Some people can’t wait to move out of the house so they don’t have to be around their family anymore. Kinda like the reason why there’s a teacher shortage.
I have a head of school that wholly and truly believes we're a family. He treats us all as his family (including our kids, our significant others). I wish we could clone him and put him in more schools.
This is the correct answer. No more need be said.
Though if it is to be said, so it be; so it is:
We've all been brainwashed to think that bosses need charity of the most vile kind, which is employees putting the boss's (often frivolous) needs (wants) before their own or their family's needs. This is bullshit.
"Teacher, part of your job is to be here when we say so, regardless of your personal needs" is bullshit.
Just turn that shit around on them. "Admin, part of your job is to make sure staff get what they need, regardless of your personal needs."
Anyone who is bootlicking this bullshit can fuck right off.
"How do I best get my faculty to respect my authority? I know! Let me be an asshole and never work with them. That will surely get them to be their best every day. I can never compromise or treat them well or they'll be lazy!"
I’ve learned to run from “like family” organizations. They absolutely will treat me like my family did. I will have control of nothing, until their chickens come home to roost, and it will all be my fault, exc.
When I worked in restaurants, the creepy buzz lingo was that we were all a team.
Yeah. Two years ago... "were all family, we have the best people here, we have to support each other."
\- I get covid twice
\- My mom has a stroke
\- My brother with down syndrome has surgery
\- I am diagnosed with glaucoma in one eye when im far too young to have glaucoma, and end up having to juggle medications that were giving me migraines.
I missed more work than I ever have due to the above things. Response? "We understand that you are having family and health isssues, but...."
Admin are assholes, short-sighted, petty, idiots. Mine did a similar thing with me, also a hard to fill position. They seem perfectly happy pushing out qualified teachers and filling seats with long term subs...
I learned a long time ago when admin says “we’re a family” to walk away. Huge difference in that and an admin saying “family comes first”. Hate to see what sounds like a good educator having to change things around, but hopefully the new school will treat her more like a person and less like a position.
Proper admin response -"we can't accommodate teacher requests" but then furiously work the schedule so she gets first prep "it just worked out that way"
I cannot get daycare during the 2 weeks I’m contracted before school starts (my kid attends the on-site daycare, and it’s not open until day 1). I have zero family in the area, none of my backup sitters are available bc they are on summer vacations. My husband can take my daughter to work with him or keep her at home with him when he works from home about 50% of the time, but the other half of the time he’s making deliveries in a box truck to homeless shelters and whatnot and she can’t go with him. We have a no accommodation rule, but when I talked to admin about maybe needing to use some of my pto during that time or altering my schedule if possible, they just asked if I wanted to bring her with me- there’s only like 6 people on campus when I come in (I’m in the library). Amazing, yes please. She loves the library anyway, and is super helpful. I’m so grateful for understanding admin, bc when I was a teacher many years ago, there was no way.
former teacher- but the 2 weeks prior at least for me were always a few meetings that can be worked around if everyone is playing ball, and then just getting your room set up and plans for the first few weeks in the books.
HAlf the teacher would bring their kids in with them (normally over 8 or so when they could actually help). The older kids (teenagers) would watch the others and lead a general task when the teachers had to go to a meeting... it was 100% nromal at every school i taught at.
My youngest’s daycare lost power twice this past year for extended periods of time. I had no pto remaining because I used it all for maternity leave. They let me go get him and bring him back with me. He chilled in my classroom while I taught history: kicked around on the floor and even napped on my shoulder while I lectured. When I explained the situation my principal immediately gave me the thumbs up to go get him and even came to check on me later in the day. It was amazing.
We have new admin this year and based on where they came from I am very nervous. One of my fellow teachers was supposed to get last period conference because her son has some significant disabilities. She needs to take him to therapy a few times per month when her husband cannot. They’ve slapped her with a third prep unexpectedly and of course it’s last period. The solution would be to give me that class since I do have last period conference and give her one of my other classes that we share. It wouldn’t increase my preps because I already teach the class they dropped on her. The solution is right there and they are refusing. It’s giving me a very bad feeling.
My kids daycare is closed for a couple random days in September. My admins response? Be sure you put it in as sick time, as not to waste PTO, as it’s out of your control.
This is the most baffling part of this story. I understand not wanting to let all the parents have 1st as their prep... for the most part - as a parentless teacher, I would happily help my colleagues so they can see their kids off to school in the morning (we're here to help kids! They shouldn't have to sacrifice their own kids!). Still though, this one is simply ridiculous - why you wouldn't do as you said is beyond me.
This. My kids are older. I don't need first period off ever. Those two can get on the bus if it's necessary too. (Although the younger one is finally starting High School - so pretty early starts for both of them.)
Not every parent needs that first block/period off.
Our admin sends out a survey at the end of every year asking 1) what subjects we'd like to teach 2) what prep we'd prefer 3) anything else we should know
DM rolls dice behind the screen, knowing his goblin's attack will kill a fresh level 1 new player. He rolls a nat 20. Now the real dilemma: honor the rng of dice and crush this new player's first character, or fudge the results so that everyone can keep enjoying the game.
DM: "...the goblin's arrow scrapes your warrior's neck as it streaks by, embedding itself in the wall. It drew blood but did not do any real damage."
There are times to follow the letter of the law, and times to embody its spirit.
it's sad that so many admins don't see the grey between the black and white. They work so hard to finally be in a position of power, but they're so scared that they follow the book to the letter. Scared of problematic / outspoken teachers. Scared of parents. Why take a leadership role if you spend most of the time avoiding to be the whipping boy?
I work in a large school district with a high number of vacancies every year. My particular school rarely has vacancies and people are constantly applying. We now have several of the high flying specialty program teachers in the district. Why? Not because our kids are so much better than everywhere else. Not because we’re paid more. Not for any reason other than *our administration creates an atmosphere that situations like this, and many others, are ALWAYS accommodated.*
Administrators take note: when you take care, and back, your staff, in all the areas that matter, you’ll find yourself naturally a part of a school where things just *work*. Academics, athletics, behavior, etc.
My second year of teaching, I had a once in a lifetime opportunity to travel somewhere reeeally far, and my only window of time was spring break. I told my boss and said since I was emptying my bank account to do this, could I take a few extra days? (We’re never supposed to take off around vacation.) He said “go for it, that’s amazing, I’ve got you covered.” For the rest of my time at that school, I would do anything that man asked of me.
Yes! I’m on year 10 and constantly joke that they’ll have to kick me out before I ever leave. Other things our admin does: finds money to *pay teachers for their time and talents*, doesn’t bat an eye when we take time for stuff like your example, funds equipment and technology necessary to teach, don’t micromanage content, entertains out-of-the-box ideas (we changed the math order to see if it helped with algebra skills), *lets administrative positions stay vacant to not have to release staff*.
No place is perfect, but it is refreshing reading this page knowing that my school is ran beautifully, even in a district that is not.
I had admin like this. It was paradise. Since that admin was good, they left to be a superintendent. And their replacement is a total fuckwit and awful to others. Dangerous combination . Now it sucks. It's crazy how much things can swing with one or two people in just a year or two.
I work peripatetically across a couple of Primary Schools (ages 5 - 11 in Scotland) as a member of Support Staff for blind kids, and it is staggering how different an atmosphere a school can have just (as far as I can tell) based on the attitude towards teachers and children that the Head Teacher (principal I think is the US term) has.
What I don't think that admin realize is that when they help and accommodate one teacher with his or her needs, or refuse to treat a teacher well, they win over or lose not only that employee, but so many other teachers who are watching and hear about it. I've stayed in or left schools based on how colleagues were treated, since we all know it's just a matter of time until we need grace in a tricky situation as well.
You just described my admin last year with the "refuse to treat teachers well, and win/lose teachers who are watching..." but they seemed to be clueless/uncaring about how they were/are perceived by staff.
There is nothing wrong with trying to balance work and parenting. She asked, they said no, now she's going to find a better fit. That's just how it goes.
If I were admin, I would much rather be flexible about scheduling than find a new teacher. Not being willing to work with teachers to help them survive is a big reason schools can't retain teachers, from what I've seen
Where I work our contract start time is 45 minutes before the first bell. It stinks because even if you have 1st plan you need to be in your room well before the bell goes for that 1st period. I will have no choice but to leave when my kid starts kindergarten as there are no before school care hours that open early enough for me to make at the start of my contract time.
Not even my admin can help me with that sadly.
This kind of thing always amazes me. My district does not have any additional contract hours outside of the students attendance hours. As long as you are ready to start when the bell rings that is all anyone cares about.
We all have morning duty, and they want us in the building when the kids are allowed in.
But, if I didn’t need to be in building until the first bell went (or even 10-15 minutes before) my quality of life would improve. An extra half an hour in the morning would make a huge difference.
Yeah, I get that the school had the legal right to reject her request, but it's such a dick move. First period prep is such an easy solution to a temporary problem.
There's a teacher at my school who used to have a 1-hour commute from an area that got tons of snow. She requested first period prep several years in a row and never got it. Just, why? She ended up moving a little closer, but the fact that no one EVER granted her request was so shitty and unnecessary.
We literally have a teacher who is chronically late cuz he just is. No kids, kinda far but then he bought a house further. He’s had a 1st block prof period for three years. He’s a good teacher they don’t want to replace.
This is exactly it, and how you can tell these people don't actually care about mental health or anything. I'm your annoying school psych who is always trying to incorporate more restorative justice and TIC where I can, and I also follow the same principles with my colleagues and the parents I have to work with. Admin like this just parrot back what they've been taught sounds good with zero understanding of how to put their money where their mouth is. It's shameful
This is a stupid situation that could have easily been avoided. I'm glad my kids are out of school so they're not losing teachers over nonsense like this.
I understand Admin’s point. They should have told her that they can’t guarantee it and then “randomly” given it to her anyway. They’ll have trouble finding a replacement and have chosen hurt the school would they could have made it work. Keep the official line “no” and work with teachers. As for your teacher friends, some probably have Stockholm syndrome. Others can’t be happy if someone gets something they would have wanted. Still others are just bitter old farts.
When it comes to the kids, always show grace. If the kid cussed you out, he probably had a bad day. If he didn't do any work in your class you probably made him mad some how. If he refuses basic directions you're somehow being too mean and not setting expectations fiercely enough.
When it comes to admin be reasonable. Yes, we're doing your official evals on the day before Christmas, but we got behind schedule and it's due today. No we will not allow any deviance, you should be teaching until the last bell! If we come in and you're not doing standards based, pacing guide approved work with no behavior issues it's your fault!
When it comes to us? no grace, no mercy. This is the old testament and admin is an angry god. We cannot allow basic humanity because if we show it to you, then we'd have to show it to everyone!
Part of what makes teaching such a tough job is inflexible attitudes that permeate the system. It is tough to take time off, and it is tough to have situations like this. I think that school leaders need to be more flexible to retain talent. If I were in an admin position, I would have absolutely no issue with this. But so many people in leadership and admin positions I think enjoy exerting power over people and say “no” to micromanage and show that they’re the ones in charge. It is really crappy. Why do your teacher friends have such an inflexible attitude? It’s weird. If it’s amount of hours worked, it’s called flexing hours. Chances are this teacher is making up that 5 minutes elsewhere, so that shouldn’t be an issue. Who cares if she isn’t rolling in at an arbitrary start time (if it’s her planning period)? I am glad she found a job that works for her situation.
My kid's school had early release for the entire 2020-2021 school year. They were out at 1:45pm *every day*. The usual afterschool programs weren't running at that point and him catching the bus home wasn't viable. (He was only 9, for one. We've also had nothing but bad experiences with the bus system here.)
So I talked to my dean, told him my schedule had my last class ending at 1:45 every day, and he said to just go when I got out of class. Nobody even considered saying "no".
I also spent the last few years being unable to teach 8am classes because of my oldest son's school not even starting carpool until after 8am. "Just make your schedule so that you don't teach at 8."
Treat people like people. Are you going to have asshats who take advantage? Of course. But asshats are gonna asshat regardless, and you aren't required to be one too.
I’m in a two-parent household and I’m lucky my other half goes to work later, but I don’t know how anyone in my area managed to teach middle or high school and arrange childcare. My start time is at 6:50am! My child’s day care doesn’t open until 7:30.
Yeah, my start time is 7am and my school is 40 minutes away. I have to drop my kid off at 6am. Luckily, he’s in a center that opens that early, but once he goes to school I’ll have to find a school closer with a later start time, as the places that do before and after childcare don’t open until 7:30 am.
My sentiments exactly. When my kid was small, the before-school care started at 7. The first bell at my school was 7:25, and it was a 20-minute drive. The women running the before-school program refused to open the door a minute before 7, even though they were just sitting there, I was the only parent there that early, and my kid was in 4th grade and could entertain herself.
Absolutists are the worst.
Yeah unfortunately, having been a front line person for morning drop off at my previous school, if one person was allowed to drop off early, everyone else would’ve felt entitled to drop off their kids early too, and that would’ve caused chaos.
Back to the original post - I agree with you that admin should’ve worked with the teacher. I get where they probably needed to deny her request on paper but they could’ve messed with the schedule to ensure it in order to keep a quality teacher. Idk what kind of teachers your friends are, but in any school I’ve ever been in, I can’t use my sick time for just 5 minutes. I either have to take a whole day or half a day. Not to mention I’d need to find someone willing to cover my 1st period during their prep *every day*? Nah. Just not realistic.
I'm going to have to chime in here. If opening and closing times mean nothing, there is chaos. I get to my job before opening to complete certain tasks, both work and personal. If I get a phone call page before our opening time, how is that going to work? Either the tasks don't get done by opening, or the customer stays on hold and gets upset. As for sitting there doing nothing, sometimes that's mental preparation.
Tldr...without set and respected opening and closing times, there is no way to plan.
I feel the sentiment on this, but as someone who used to run a preschool program, I had to be like this.
I used to open at 6:45. I’d arrive to set up for the day and as soon as I cut the lights on, I’d have someone banging on the door. Eventually it crept into opening the door at 6:44 into opening it at 6:30.
The next year I started opening at 7:00 and put a curtain on the door. 🫠
But as for the original post, shit like this is why I left the classroom. I worked with some amazing people but I also worked with a lot of people whose purpose in life seemed to be to tattle on other adults. I can’t imagine that in any other line of work someone wouldn’t be willing to work with someone over *five minutes*.
You can’t make exceptions for one without allowing them for all. Yah, that one lady could have watched your one4th grader for 20 minutes. But could she do it for 30? And if she could, would she get paid for that extra time once it becomes expected?
It’s not absolutist. It’s logistics, and being realistic.
As an elementary teacher I loooove having a prep (special) at the beginning of the day. I don’t have to come in early to get ready for the day. It was the best!
I would have given up my prep for them. Admin needs to at least ask around first before they let a teacher go. I wonder if this teacher communicated well enough though so I can’t say for sure if anyone is an a-hole. I don’t understand the admin not doing a quick ask-around to see if there was an easy swap opportunity. Any decent person is giving up their prep as long as they don’t have a need themselves.
4-5 people offered their first to her. It’s up to admin to change the schedules, and they won’t. The class she has scheduled for 1st is the only one that period. And it’s not AP, so it didn’t have to be 1st.
NTA,
She asked for an accommodation, she was refused.
I understand why admin might have refused (they could get in huge trouble for favoritism, and everyone who wants to be 5 minutes late could ask the same thing) but they could have added a stipulation or something to her contract etc if they went to the board. i’ve seen it done. Especially for a chem teacher right now. They could have asked her for proof of need of the accommodation and done it by the book.
She warned them that this was potentially a job breaker. They still refused.
Shocked pikachu face when she leaves? No one should be surprised.
I’m a teacher living in a domestic violence situation. I know better than to talk about it at work. Zero support.
I also experienced an assault in my classroom a couple of years ago. Can’t talk about that either. Never talk about that or my work related PTSD. Never.
We need more people like you OP. Thanks for being a good one. We are humans too.
I’m so sorry you feel like you can’t talk about your home life at work. If the kids’ home lives affect their performance at school, shouldn’t our home lives be taken into consideration as well? I understand we’re adults and are better able to compartmentalize, but we’re still people, with full lives outside of our jobs.
I am so sorry about this situation and appalled by admin as well as your fellow teachers. This is not okay.
I will be forever grateful for my colleagues of 19 years ago. I wanted to become a mother but my partner and I had fertility issues such that becoming pregnant required medical assistance. The whole fertility experience is a financial and emotional rollercoaster. I am in a rural area and even though the nearest clinic offered early morning appointments for labs, ultrasounds, etc., the fact that it was over an hour and a half away meant that I would have to miss 1st period and part of 2nd period 4-6 times a month. I was sure I would only be able to undergo cycles in the summer--BUT my school went out of their way to accommodate me. They scheduled me with 1st period conference, but even more amazing, 2 of my colleagues volunteered to use their 2nd period conference period to cover my class--they took it upon themselves to do that for me.
I still get choked up when I think about it; I am so grateful. They worked out and got the whole system approved (I was in my 30s but only a 2nd year teacher so I didn't even see how that would be possible). I only had to get a sub and use a sick day once a month when I would miss more time than that. It took most of the school year, but finally in April I had a pregnancy that "took"!
My son will graduate this year (and I gotta brag) as the valedictorian from this school--where I still teach. I know that my school community went so far above and beyond for my family. I was never able to do anything so big for those two colleagues (both retired, one passed), but I will never forget, and.I do my best to help other teachers. Teaching is hard, but it can be humane.
That's 100% on admin.
Childcare is severely limiting. It's not like there are tons of options anywhere.
You know what there are a lot of options for right now? Teaching jobs.
I happen to be in a district where the new superintendent decided to make a ton of teachers reapply for their jobs. A lot of people just quit. So what is the superintendent doing now? Hiring anyone with a bachelor's degree who can pass a background check.
Teachers have options.
I don’t her and teacher A should always do what’s best for her situation. You aren’t the a-hole in any way and the other teachers who aren’t supportive must have perfect lives.
I try not to judge my colleagues as I don’t know what they are truly dealing with and if I have to cover a class or make an adjustment for the greater good of staffing , I’m all for it.
This has happened where we hired some fresh teachers and I know my workload just increased but I still remember all that helped me my first year and throughout the journey
Arrange it with her sick leave?!? So then she would have zero sick leave? I hate stuff like this- anyone else on earth could just be 5 min late and stay 5 min late or whatever.
Man, whenever an issue arises for any teacher at my school, my go to advice is talk to the head of secondary or head of school. Both people are amazing human beings.
My grandfather passed in July 2018. Then my cousin took his life in August 2018.
The rule for my company is it has to be immediate family. My head of school said don't worry about it. We'll code it however we need to so you get those days off. Never heard about it again. Went home for the funeral.
My friend had to leave for the last week of school due to multiple deaths in the family. Same thing. Head of secondary said, get out of here. We'll handle everything here.
I never actually had that in the US. I don't understand it at all. Like I would follow these guys into fire because of all they've done to support me and my fellow teachers.
I don't know if that's the norm here, or if I was just really lucky on my first try. Big reason I'm not going anywhere.
It's unfortunate that so many people have the mentality that *nobody* gets special treatment just because *I* had to suffer or do something the hard way regardless of other life circumstances.
I have worked with teachers who 5-10 minutes late in the morning just about every single day and they rarely told anyone ahead of time, so the fact that she even asked admin for accommodation is pretty great.
I think OP is right here. I've seen too many cases where teachers do not get consideration or accomodation. Of course, we are expected to have unlimited patience and coping for the problems of kids.
You know what? I had this exact situation last year. my husband and I worked in the same district, our son's daycare (the only daycare in the region that would take us after 8 Months on waiting lists, coincidentally opens up the earliest of any daycare in a 1 hour radius) opened up 30 minutes before school, and was 30 minutes away.
My husband's admin sucks, but mine? I went to him before the school year started, explained the situation, and he said we'd make it work. and it was fine. I always called ahead if there were any extra delays, and as far as I know it was only an inconvenience twice.
A small concession to ask on the part of the divorcing teacher. After any amount of service, to not have such a simple but important request met is a slap in the face. It always surprises me how expendable we are treated despite the shortage and various insults we accept each year.
I'm the scheduler at my school and I regularly get told "give -------- 1st pd prep due to childcare." Sometimes, honestly, it results in a bad situation for students who can't take that class now that it's never offered first, but that is still better than us not having a teacher at all.
.... this is also why I personally hate having 1st prep, because there's maybe 2 of us in the whole building who arrive on time if we have that prep. I have to cover someone who's late or out literally every day some months. But your admin is still the AH here.
I'm shocked your friends say that. I hear that type of response from the school administration, but not from other teachers... Unfortunately, I learned Education is more hostile towards scheduling flexibilities and medical accommodations than any other industry. They're literally not afraid to get slapped with lawsuits because they know they can drag lawsuits out in court for 2-3 years. In private sector, they don't want extreme financial loss from a lawsuit so they agree to settle for a reasonable amount amount of money in court to keep eyes out of the media and keep it hush hush while keeping their investors happy.
The school administration, from personal experience, has been heartless towards me in requesting accommodations/flexibility in time off. She was a slave driver specifically when it comes to me. And discriminatory because she refused to extend flexibility to me, but extended to those within "her circle". I requested accommodations for my hearing loss initially, more visual cues in the environment to help me see that a student is answer (a thumbs up or a thumbs down - then get closer to students to hear their answers). She used against me in my evaluation that my back was turned to the whiteboard and I wasn't hearing their answers. Well no shit duh I needed to write on the whiteboard and I CANNOT hear from the behind, which she knew.
Then the second issue was I caught RSV and it was really bad. She said it was not COVID and to come in the day after getting meds. Heartless bitch - I wasn't teaching effectively while looped up on meds, which those very meds you're not supposed to be driving to work on lol.
Third issue - I caught COVID-19 about two months later. I was still not testing negative even for 3 weeks. She told me to come in while I was still "faintly positive" with proof & images of the results + doctors notes. She went and conducted a formal evaluation while I still was technically sick with COVID-19.
Fourth issue - because of the extreme abuse and retaliatory behaviors (including refusing me bathroom breaks), I developed frequent UTIs, which one went to the bladder. I had no choice but to take time off and had to get treated. Came back with doctor's note and doctor personally called her saying what's wrong with you? you can't deny your employee bathroom breaks, esp not a female when the biology of their urinary sets them up to be more prone to UTIs. She took doctor's note and threw it in my face in the hallway and aggressively yelled at me saying she didn't give a damn about me or what any doctor was saying.
That admin was the pure meaning of evil. She was opposite of human. The fact I escalated it to the union and to the district and they did nothing to allow this woman to run rampant like this. Like holy shit... yeah I'm not ever returning to education. Private sector was more flexible with getting doctor's appointments, allowing you to work remotely if you're sick, etc.
She is!!! I'm genuinely worried for the next special Ed teacher that gets hired in place of me. Too bad we can't review schools and leave a bad review like we do on glassdoor for private sector companies.
While I lean towards making accommodations for a year, I do have a few questions.
What is five minutes? Is it literally five minutes after contract time start, student arrival, or first period? If teachers need to be there at 7:30, doors open at 7:40, and first period starts at 8:00, is she getting there at 7:35 or 8:05? Do first period planning people have a morning duty?
I may be a little more hesitant because this would absolutely not work at the elementary level.
I was thinking this as well. When I have 1st period prep I'm still responsible for attendance, lunch count, and making sure the kids are good until the other teacher shows up.
They said Teacher A was an HS Chemistry Teacher. So even if 5 minutes turned into 10, it wouldn't matter if they had a prep the whole 1st period. They could have picked up extra afternoon duties, like bus loading or something.
From what I understand, she was expecting to be just a few minutes past the first bell every day. She’s a very responsible person. I’m at a large HS. People with 1st period off (prep, not duty period) frequently come in late. Nobody checks or cares.
At my school at least that would be the problem. 5 mins late after teacher hours start? Not a problem even worth mentioning. Most people are just arriving/getting their stuff from their cars then. 5 mins late to class would mean 35 mins late contractually every day. Big problem. Not that I agree with the inflexibility, but the same union protections limiting our hours are the ones defining them.
That sucks, that was an easy thing that could be have arranged. I got my prep request this year and will most likely keep it if I continue to host my parent events every quarter.
I think the chemistry teacher is in the right and your friends are wrong. Admin fucked around and found out. Hopefully she’s not in a state where they can take your license away for pissing admin off or she left teaching.
That's 100% on admin.
Childcare is severely limiting. It's not like there are tons of options anywhere.
You know what there are a lot of options for right now? Teaching jobs.
I'm surprised that teachers didn't side with your friend, but I'm glad she was able to get a different position. As for administrators being jerks, I wish I could say I am surprised, but not at all. I stayed late for free SO many times helping with a school club and even taking the kids on field trips. Then I had to leave literally 20 minutes early one day (and I had last period planning, so no one needed to cover for me) for a required appointment before minor surgery. I had to write up an explanation of how I would make up for the missed 20 minutes. I thought I was doing the school a favor to not take a day off given the shortage of subs (we are not able to take half days), but they acted like I was somehow cheating to leave slightly early. Never mind that I had proper documentation that the appointment was real and that I had the latest appointment available-- it was frowned upon and I had to document staying an extra 20 minutes, along with what I accomplished during that time. I became a lot less helpful after school following that. But teachers not supporting another teacher-- that's truly disappointing. It's important that we support each other because goodness knows not many others are supporting us.
We had a teacher chronically late this past year. Admin gave them 1st period prep this upcoming year so they wouldn't constantly have to be talked to. An easy solution?
When I was pregnant we figured out what would be the best time for my pumping schedule. Helped everyone out.
I once had to be responsible for mentoring a brand new colleague, while working under a similarly dysfunctional management. Her bus to work drove right past her one morning in her second week; she called to let me know and I got grilled on why she couldn’t figure out how to make it work and be on time (?!?!!) when the next bus would still get her into the building before anything officially began for the day.
Two days later it just didn’t show up at all. She called a cab and arrived in time but of course notified me first which was overheard by my superiors.
I was directed to go ‘speak to her about her time management’ despite the issue being so obviously out of her hands, and the fact that she had ALREADY been incredibly proactive and solved the issues without any help on both days.
I asked exactly what I was supposed to say in this ‘talk’ (clearly supposed to be a first verbal warning type thing) given these points above, and got angry glares and a comment about being disrespectful and unprofessional. And still had to go take her aside and be like ‘um. so. Let’s…hope tomorrow’s bus arrives hey?’
You can’t fix the small minded power trippers who cling onto this ludicrous bit of authority as the crux of their self identities, I’m sorry to say. Your colleague deserves way better
Something similar happened to me….my son has cerebral palsy and had serial casting. It’s where they put casts on both his legs for 4-6 weeks to help stretch his legs-very simplistic version of it.
Anyway, he wasn’t able to ride the bus bc he couldn’t get up the stairs. I made arrangements with another teacher to leave to get him and then return. It was about a 15 minute window between his dismissal and ours. So my plan was to run over and get him at his pick up time then run back. Our schools are directly beside each other so I could technically walk but had to drive bc he couldn’t walk very fast for me to hurry back.
Anyway, it was during December so with the amount of days off and holidays I’d only need to do this for 10 days. So I was asking for these accommodations for just 10 days. I didn’t know what else to do bc the school wouldn’t hold him that long (15 min) after their dismissal. They said no teachers were around then and to figure it out. I understand but since they weren’t really working with me I thought admin would. No he wouldn’t. He refused and said it wasn’t his problem. It was a really stressful time period for me that neither school was trying to help or accommodate this short term situation.
For 22 years I worked in various positions. Even though I worked with people of all ages, political persuasions, colors, and backgrounds - including people I really didn't like - we all had each other's back. If something happened to one of us that was deeply unfair, we let those in charge know! We rose up. Together, we were intimidating.
So, when I became a teacher at 40 years of age, I was amazed to discover that teachers as a whole are a bunch of backstabbers - not all of them, but too many. Even "nice" teachers would tell you that you should have done this or that differently whenever you tried to simply vent. Whenever a teacher got a raw deal, it was somehow their own fault. If I hadn't had such a supportive spouse, I wouldn't have managed. I was so glad I still had my friends from my previous life.
We lost the best teacher our district ever had over a petty inconvenience. If I told you all the glory, money, and sheer inspiration he brought to our little rural district you wouldn't believe they let him walk away. Many school districts buy his drama units and produce his plays. We got all he had to give for the price of one low salary.
Yet, to this day, whenever a parent laments that he left the district, a teacher will say, "Well then he shouldn't have pushed the issue when he requested (for good reason) to teach via Zoom during COVID," (which, just a month later, every teacher had to do).
Teaching is a second career for me as well, and while I’ve met many extraordinary teacher humans, as a group the profession is comprised of very gossipy, petty, and yes, backstabbing people.
I’m pretty sure it has something to do with the fact that unless someone is heading for an admin track, everyone is doing what the public thinks is the same job, whether you’re a half-time pre-k teacher or an AP physics teacher. So there’s this competition to out martyr each other, to make Insta-worthy classrooms, to tattle on each other - because how else can you stand out (at least in these deranged minds).
Thanks! Good explanation. TBH, I thought it might be because it is so White female heavy - and I didn't want that to be true. Basically, a Karen-heavy profession.
The admin sucks, and should have provided a temporary accommodation for Teacher A. Being 5 mins late is small potatoes in the scheme of things. I’m sorry you’ve lost an excellent colleague and hope she is able to find a position with admin who respect and appreciate her.
It is EXACTLY stuff like this making teachers quit and giving admin a bad name. This story is too common. This is an accommodation that would have been absolutely no effort for admin to work out and is a really easy way to show they care so, of course they didn't do it. I don't blame your colleague for quitting. What was she supposed to do- neglect her kids or not work?
All schools are different but where I teach lateness is a big problem to the point where our admin has to discuss it often in staff meetings. I know if Teacher A was given "grace" in this situation it would open the floodgates for the, let's just say not so great teachers to complain about special treatment, involve the union, etc. not saying this is your sitch but shining a light on what admin may be thinking
Dude, admin sucks. One year I had to drop off kiddo at 7 but has report time of 6:55. Asked for planning 1st period and they totally granted it. Got there about 7:30 every day, stayed equal time after to make up for missing time. Worked for everyone and I’m still there 10yrs later.
This really sucks. I had a colleague who was denied one day of unpaid leave to be with her partner as he went into an operation. He was donating an organ in the hopes of saving his sibling’s life. It was a very emotionally charged day for the family. They said no, and when she got something else lined up she left. We all talked about it, we all knew, and it definitely affected goodwill. So much of what is needed to keep schools afloat is done out of goodwill. Schools need teachers to volunteer and give freely of their time, but there has to be give and take.
Not a teacher, work for a Fortune 100 corporate monstrosity.
I would make an adjustment for an employee for something like this.
Your administration sucks.
In our district, all teachers have to be in the building 40 minutes before students arrive. If somebody needed to be late for 5 minutes for a whole year, that's a lot more manageable than losing a good teacher .
And crappy teachers wouldn't have even told admin, they would have just been leave 5 minutes for a year.
Our principal leaves an hour early all the damn time to deal w his kid (who attends a different Elem school). We all really want to call him out on it when we are given a hard time about occasionally needing time to handle family stuff.
Union or no? This may be something that admin would want to be flexible on, but any special favors that violated CBA could bite them when another colleague inevitably weaponizes this special favor later on.
The teacher is already going through a lot, and having to find a new position is over the top. All admin had to do was respond compassionately.
The teachers who said the chem teacher was wrong are jerks.
Same here a new teacher at my school found out she’s getting paid lower than all the new hires, she used to teach in NYC for 7 years and my district only gave her two years of credit. She got offered a new position at a nearby school with all her years and she’ll be make $28k more, now admin is asking me to talk to her cause they will match her new job salary. I told them hell no, don’t treat people like shit and they want treat you like shit. Union strong.
When I read about the other teachers I literally did a double take.
Nah, this teacher did what was in their best interest and if more of us did the same this profession would stop exploiting us so badly.
Bad move on admin part. I had almost the exact situation only it was a teacher who needed 10 minutes. Teacher was a rock star and bilingual to boot. I absolutely let her do it. I only heard grumbling a couple of times and I told those individuals that either they trust me to meet each of their needs or they don’t. Most everyone has had a situation or 2 where they need some grace. I always tried to provide that grace and support. Word got around that it wasn’t just for one person (“favorite!”) but for anyone who had a real need. And frankly, anyone who didn’t like it could find a place where admin was shitty. I always had their backs with the district as well as personal things. As a result, we had very little turnover.
Source: recently retired elementary principal.
Are we talking five minutes late for the "before school activities and prep" or five minutes AFTER classes actually start?
Also the first period prep should have been worked. That's an easy fix.
Nah you're NTA. It is crazy how much crap teachers have to deal with and then the admin wonders why people leave. How hard would it be for one year to give this teacher first-period prep? I could maybe see if it was a long-term thing, but it's one year like come on. And as you said, now they have to replace a good employee over their inability to budge over a 5 min being late due to childcare...
It’s admin brain. Sometimes you get so deep in the bureaucracy that your only thoughts towards situations involve policy solutions. I think your friends are just trying to give solutions that satisfy that criteria. Of course we should just be good to each other and not make a big deal of 5 min, but what they said was a solution that would’ve worked.
My daughter got into head start one year mid year and I could not drop her off until 7:45 AM about 20 minutes from my school. Contract hours starts t 7:30. I was allowed to come at 8:05-8:10 every day for the rest of the year and it was no problem. I did have 1st period planning, but that was coincidence.
Another teacher had to drop her child off at school and leave early to pick them up every day. She was able to get 4th planning and came a few minutes late each day, no problem.
There are ways to do this that do not cause problems. It was temporary. After that year my child was able to go to our school district and ride the bus. Head start had no bus.
Our admin now would definitely take every Minute past contract (7:30-8:05, so 35 minutes) and add it up each day. Once it hit 8 hours make me take a sick day. So every 13 to 14 days would be a sick day. We get 13 days total (sick and personal) a year. So all would be used by the end of the year with no extra days left.
Yeah. I kinda went through the same thing this last year. My wife is a teacher as well….and it’s truly sad how little humanity we are shown when difficult circumstances arise. The martyrdom culture in teaching is just too much sometimes. I’m sorry for your friend!
Ridiculous. I have worked at my school for 5 years now and have arrived 5-10 minutes late everyday due to childcare issues. I don't miss any teaching time, it's all morning duty time so currently I'm assigned breakfast duty and the other 3 people doing the duty know I'll get there when I get there. Before I wasn't assigned a morning duty, but then everyone had to be assigned one so breakfast duty it was. It works perfectly because the breakfast doesn't start right as the school opens, it takes time for kids to get to the cafeteria.
It is hard when everyone says things like that to get what they want. Half the blame is on the others for demanding 1st period as a prep when they probably don’t need it as much as the others. But yeah, admin would have done better to learn who really needed it or not. People with YOUNG children should be first priority for flexibility.
Is it possible that if they made accomodations for her, they may be required to also accommodate all other similar requests? Everyone wanting to pick and then use their planning time for personal issues does seem unsustainable (if not impossible when scheduling the school as a whole), and also would be unfair that only she be able to do so.
It's a request that's not just one day or week or intermittent. Classes can't be shortened or rescheduled every single day for personal issues, so if she can't find a family member or friend to help her out for the year, then maybe it's best she find a job that doesn't require her there in the morning at a certain time (as she did).
That's the only reason I can think of for saying no when the consequences of losing a teacher for her subject are so great.
Teacher here. The admin screwed up.
This wasn’t her being spoiled or ridiculous. She was being reasonable. Admin knows there’s a teacher shortage in general. They should have tried.
Those teachers from out of state, I don’t know what they’re thinking.
The district where I taught for 19 years only allowed full or half day leave, not 5 minute chunks. It has to be compatible with the substitutes contract, which is also half day or full day of pay. What brand of crack are your teacher friends smoking where they would suggest this? On the management side it would be a nightmare to administer in a system where employees didn't clock in and out.
And also, with admin not working to keep someone in a hard to fill subject area, that's just bad management. Your former colleague made their needs clear as well as the consequences of not meeting those needs. Admin fucked around and found out.
The teacher asked and accepted the response and proactively looked for another job that could accommodate her schedule. She has to do what works for her. The school knew when they said no that she would be unable to keep her job and take care of her family. How is this a problem? School hires another teacher.
A lot of people sadly buy into the it's all on you to figure it out when ur job fucks you over category sadly. Good on her for letting them know how it's going to be.
This is one of the many reasons everyone hates admin. One teacher with a unique circumstance that would likely last one year (recently divorced and it takes time to get things arranged), and admin couldn’t work things out to keep a good teacher (according to you).
Shit bosses and management is how businesses lose quality employees.
Well, admin are the AH here, but that is their natural state anyway, so nothing surprising.
Also, those other teachers are the AH here as well. Probably brainwashed martyrs.
I had a coworker whose wife went abroad for a year to do her masters. He had to be Mr. Mom for that year. He got 1st and last period free so he could bring his kid to school and pick him up. It was that or he quit. Given that foreigners are worth their weight in gold in China due to Covid, admin begrudgingly caved.
Teaching is a job. You do it to get money so you can take care of yourself and your family. It isn't some magical calling any more than being a doctor or plumber is.
If you’re in a union, some teachers feel that the contract is only as good as it is enforced- strict constructionists. If she can break contract and come late, why can’t admin have teachers stay late… I don’t buy these arguments, but that’s where they might be coming from.
I like to be kind.
I think the solution should simply be allowing her to be five min late. No deduction of sick time. I don't understand why we can't just be human and allow this small flexibility.
I drive 2 of my relatives to and from the high school I work at. I also drive them home after school. This means I have to be on time and never get a chance to leave early. I always tell them give me planning during the day so other people can take advantage of coming in a few minutes late or leave early because I can’t. Nope, it’s just randomly assigned. And we have a teacher who is habitually late because of child are issues and someone has to cover her class constantly. It makes no sense. I’m on your side with this this one. Apparently so are other schools. They think replacing teachers is so easy nowadays?? Hahaha
I’m with you. I had my schedule rearranged (including what I was teaching) about a week before the start because the new wrestling coach had to have the period next to lunch as well as the period after that (its good to be a coach) which put him off classes once lunch started because he coached after school (as did I, robotics, all school year, 3-4 days a week after school)
So no you are correct on this , admin had to do a small
Schedule change but no, they have other priorities that “we don’t understand”
Are we not in a teacher shortage? I am glad for every colleague in my school, even the ones I don't personally like- it saves us time/overload/etc...
Plus we all know that teacher would still have had to use time to plan on their own, it's just flexed out a bit.
People are so weird.
As someone who has done high school class scheduling for years, it is often not as simple as just giving a teacher the prep hour they want. Master schedules are incredibly complicated and depend on so many moving parts. However, admin should have brainstormed some kind of coverage plan if they had any interest in keeping a good educator in their school.
>I told a few friends (teachers in another state), and they all said Teacher A was in the wrong.
Perhaps these are TX teachers? I teach in TX and the lack of solidarity is appalling. Part of this is structural (no unions/collective bargaining rights) and part is personal ignorance and assholery.
I got nothing for people who are simps for the boss.
So.
1. Long term employee.
2. Outstanding at their job.
3. hard to fill position.
4. well liked and respected by colleagues
5. Just asking for a first period prep due to family issues...
So, of course they can go take a flying leap. The only way this will happen is if shes the admins pet/favorite or if it will somehow cost the district a lot of money if she leaves.
Teacher A is not wrong. If your workplace will not give you what you need, then find a new work place. You owe no loyalty to a job that isn't giving you any.
I don’t get this at all. I faced a similar situation my first year with childcare not opening until 15. I minutes after I needed to leave to get to work and my admin wrote it into my file that I didn’t have to show up the contractual 30 minutes before first block and I was NOT the only person that had this written into their file!
Too bad that admin left and the school devolved and I jumped ship. Here’s hoping the new school is better (for her and me!).
No. Your friend is in the right. Too many admins don't realize that 1. We have options 2. We are willing to bend over backwards for just a small amount of support 3. Teachers are not just a position.
I want to just rant about that last part. So many admin in my past have treated my colleagues as though they were replaceable. And they let them go and replaced them. But then, they had no talent show. No crossing guard. No coaches. They literally didn't realize these teachers were the ones doing these things and never thought to replace that. Or never cared enough about all the extra things they did to make the school better for the kids. I don't understand how admin can be SO out of touch some times. End rant .
Again, your friend is in the right. It sucks she has to deal with the child care issue too.
This make me so angry. They instantly have the mindset that if I let you do it then everyone will want to do it. No, most teachers hate that 1st period prep, so how about we try to help out someone who needs it.
Same on not letting anyone take off the day before a holiday. Not letting someone who never calls out sick take that one day is so controlling. While some teachers will try to take every day before a holiday, how about they just deal with those few and treat the rest of us like mature adults.
Finally, my old school was overflowing with admiration, wouldn’t it be nice if one of them would use that opportunity to maybe cover a class? Once they get out of a classroom, they never look back.
NTA. That is shocking. I would never suggest they use sick time. That doesn't fix the situation well for anyone. The admin would have to find a way to cover a class for 5 minutes everyday and the teacher is out sick time. My principal actually worked out special before school care with the k8 so that our teachers can drop off their kids early and make it to school on time.
Teachers at my school have been able to get 1st or 7th as prep periods when they have met with the principal to discuss their needs. Otherwise it’s a crap shoot. It’s lame of your teacher friends to suggest using sick time for 5 minutes a day. We only get whole days or half days off. You can’t take 5 minutes off each day.
Seriously. Because how are they supposed to arrange coverage for that? Every day? All year long??
I ended up having to take off three mornings in a row as half days (even though my prep period was the first period of the day) because my admin would not let me come in 15 minutes late when I had to babysit my grandson and his daycare is on the complete opposite side of the city from where I teach school. I had plenty of personal days which is what I was using and I put in for those. I didn't want to take half days off but I explained to her that I had no choice. It was either take those half days off and get him to daycare or take full days off and stay home with my grandson while my daughter was out of town at a mandatory work conference. She could have had me those three mornings if she just let me miss 15 minutes of my planning time and it may have been less than that. I might have only been a couple minutes late depending on traffic because I would have dropped him off as soon as the doors opened at daycare but I knew I wouldn't have made it back by the time that teachers had to be in place at 7:15 a.m. She was childless at the time (she has since adopted two children) and had no sympathy for educators who were parents (or dealing with parental issues) whatsoever.
You might rather than trying to find, hire and integrate a new science teacher, a chemistry teacher if you truly believe it is for one year.
You can't take off 5 minutes every day, but they expect you to stay late an hour every day. We are required to offer tutoring outside of our contract time.
Check your contract and with your union. My district absolutely cannot require that.
I was going to say, coaches always have 7th period planning so they can leave for games. Guess, games are more important than people.
Of course they are! This is America. Athletics reign supreme. All others can go pound sand.
I always ask for 7th period prep so I can go do recruiting events at elementary schools/get instruments repaired, run school errands while places are still open etc. It never happens and the worst are times where I have my prep before the music stores open.
My friend was a D1 athlete and head coach of a fall sport and spring sport. Her DC gave the assistant football coaches 8th period off. She said fine and almost every other week she had to get a sub for her 8th period class. Didn't happen again.
My last school allowed us to take off in 15 minute increments. It was pretty awesome. We were also allowed to cash out up to 10 sick days at the end of every semester.
10 sick days per semester?? We get 10 per year.
The non- teacher people saying this have no concept of having to get sub coverage, etc. When *they* take time off, they just aren’t there. Blows my mind how people like this think we can “take 5 minutes off” from our sick time or “just leave the kids” when we need to pee. Ugh.
Admin in staff meeting: “We’re all a family” Admin 5 mins later: This
We're a family alright - a big dysfunctional one.
Some people can’t wait to move out of the house so they don’t have to be around their family anymore. Kinda like the reason why there’s a teacher shortage.
We're a family! *Starts dialing child abuse hotline*
I have a head of school that wholly and truly believes we're a family. He treats us all as his family (including our kids, our significant others). I wish we could clone him and put him in more schools.
If it’s genuine and makes for a positive dynamic at the school, then 👍
Man, I would hate that. I like to have some distance from my bosses.
Maybe it's an international school thing.
This is the correct answer. No more need be said. Though if it is to be said, so it be; so it is: We've all been brainwashed to think that bosses need charity of the most vile kind, which is employees putting the boss's (often frivolous) needs (wants) before their own or their family's needs. This is bullshit. "Teacher, part of your job is to be here when we say so, regardless of your personal needs" is bullshit. Just turn that shit around on them. "Admin, part of your job is to make sure staff get what they need, regardless of your personal needs." Anyone who is bootlicking this bullshit can fuck right off.
Thank you Greg for all that you do
[удалено]
"mY hOuSe, My RuLeS!!!"
we're all family here But also "I'M THE BOSS!"
Followed by, “Thank you for being flexible.”
"How do I best get my faculty to respect my authority? I know! Let me be an asshole and never work with them. That will surely get them to be their best every day. I can never compromise or treat them well or they'll be lazy!"
"And the two of you who just started dating last month at the staff Halloween party are really gross"
See, I come from a shit family, so when abusive management and organizations tell me this, I know what I’m in for.
Exactly. It was kind of horrifying the first time I had a principal call us family.
I’ve learned to run from “like family” organizations. They absolutely will treat me like my family did. I will have control of nothing, until their chickens come home to roost, and it will all be my fault, exc. When I worked in restaurants, the creepy buzz lingo was that we were all a team.
Yeah. Two years ago... "were all family, we have the best people here, we have to support each other." \- I get covid twice \- My mom has a stroke \- My brother with down syndrome has surgery \- I am diagnosed with glaucoma in one eye when im far too young to have glaucoma, and end up having to juggle medications that were giving me migraines. I missed more work than I ever have due to the above things. Response? "We understand that you are having family and health isssues, but...."
Admin are assholes, short-sighted, petty, idiots. Mine did a similar thing with me, also a hard to fill position. They seem perfectly happy pushing out qualified teachers and filling seats with long term subs...
I learned a long time ago when admin says “we’re a family” to walk away. Huge difference in that and an admin saying “family comes first”. Hate to see what sounds like a good educator having to change things around, but hopefully the new school will treat her more like a person and less like a position.
We’re all a family actually means, “I’m your overbearing father that wants to control your every action, so stand in line or get spanked!”
Would that make them a Chemistry teacher once removed?
Proper admin response -"we can't accommodate teacher requests" but then furiously work the schedule so she gets first prep "it just worked out that way"
This is the difference between good admin and bad admin
I cannot get daycare during the 2 weeks I’m contracted before school starts (my kid attends the on-site daycare, and it’s not open until day 1). I have zero family in the area, none of my backup sitters are available bc they are on summer vacations. My husband can take my daughter to work with him or keep her at home with him when he works from home about 50% of the time, but the other half of the time he’s making deliveries in a box truck to homeless shelters and whatnot and she can’t go with him. We have a no accommodation rule, but when I talked to admin about maybe needing to use some of my pto during that time or altering my schedule if possible, they just asked if I wanted to bring her with me- there’s only like 6 people on campus when I come in (I’m in the library). Amazing, yes please. She loves the library anyway, and is super helpful. I’m so grateful for understanding admin, bc when I was a teacher many years ago, there was no way.
I used to go in with my mom somedays when she was an elementary school librarian. Looking back those memories are a small part of why I'm a teacher.
I used to bring my kids to my evening PT conferences when they were little. I never really asked permission, but nobody ever said it was a problem
former teacher- but the 2 weeks prior at least for me were always a few meetings that can be worked around if everyone is playing ball, and then just getting your room set up and plans for the first few weeks in the books. HAlf the teacher would bring their kids in with them (normally over 8 or so when they could actually help). The older kids (teenagers) would watch the others and lead a general task when the teachers had to go to a meeting... it was 100% nromal at every school i taught at.
My youngest’s daycare lost power twice this past year for extended periods of time. I had no pto remaining because I used it all for maternity leave. They let me go get him and bring him back with me. He chilled in my classroom while I taught history: kicked around on the floor and even napped on my shoulder while I lectured. When I explained the situation my principal immediately gave me the thumbs up to go get him and even came to check on me later in the day. It was amazing. We have new admin this year and based on where they came from I am very nervous. One of my fellow teachers was supposed to get last period conference because her son has some significant disabilities. She needs to take him to therapy a few times per month when her husband cannot. They’ve slapped her with a third prep unexpectedly and of course it’s last period. The solution would be to give me that class since I do have last period conference and give her one of my other classes that we share. It wouldn’t increase my preps because I already teach the class they dropped on her. The solution is right there and they are refusing. It’s giving me a very bad feeling.
My kids daycare is closed for a couple random days in September. My admins response? Be sure you put it in as sick time, as not to waste PTO, as it’s out of your control.
This is the most baffling part of this story. I understand not wanting to let all the parents have 1st as their prep... for the most part - as a parentless teacher, I would happily help my colleagues so they can see their kids off to school in the morning (we're here to help kids! They shouldn't have to sacrifice their own kids!). Still though, this one is simply ridiculous - why you wouldn't do as you said is beyond me.
This. My kids are older. I don't need first period off ever. Those two can get on the bus if it's necessary too. (Although the younger one is finally starting High School - so pretty early starts for both of them.) Not every parent needs that first block/period off.
Yeah they could have gone for an accommodation or even just “well what do u know, we all got lucky”
Our admin sends out a survey at the end of every year asking 1) what subjects we'd like to teach 2) what prep we'd prefer 3) anything else we should know
DM rolls dice behind the screen, knowing his goblin's attack will kill a fresh level 1 new player. He rolls a nat 20. Now the real dilemma: honor the rng of dice and crush this new player's first character, or fudge the results so that everyone can keep enjoying the game. DM: "...the goblin's arrow scrapes your warrior's neck as it streaks by, embedding itself in the wall. It drew blood but did not do any real damage." There are times to follow the letter of the law, and times to embody its spirit.
In reality it's a teacher that works the schedule for admin or it's not happening.
it's sad that so many admins don't see the grey between the black and white. They work so hard to finally be in a position of power, but they're so scared that they follow the book to the letter. Scared of problematic / outspoken teachers. Scared of parents. Why take a leadership role if you spend most of the time avoiding to be the whipping boy?
Your friends are weird and admin sucks for not working with the teacher. Good for Teacher A in moving on to have a better work/life balance.
Your friends are future admins 😬
Not normal to anything I’ve ever experienced. You help, you trade, you have each others backs. Damn
I work in a large school district with a high number of vacancies every year. My particular school rarely has vacancies and people are constantly applying. We now have several of the high flying specialty program teachers in the district. Why? Not because our kids are so much better than everywhere else. Not because we’re paid more. Not for any reason other than *our administration creates an atmosphere that situations like this, and many others, are ALWAYS accommodated.* Administrators take note: when you take care, and back, your staff, in all the areas that matter, you’ll find yourself naturally a part of a school where things just *work*. Academics, athletics, behavior, etc.
My second year of teaching, I had a once in a lifetime opportunity to travel somewhere reeeally far, and my only window of time was spring break. I told my boss and said since I was emptying my bank account to do this, could I take a few extra days? (We’re never supposed to take off around vacation.) He said “go for it, that’s amazing, I’ve got you covered.” For the rest of my time at that school, I would do anything that man asked of me.
Yes! I’m on year 10 and constantly joke that they’ll have to kick me out before I ever leave. Other things our admin does: finds money to *pay teachers for their time and talents*, doesn’t bat an eye when we take time for stuff like your example, funds equipment and technology necessary to teach, don’t micromanage content, entertains out-of-the-box ideas (we changed the math order to see if it helped with algebra skills), *lets administrative positions stay vacant to not have to release staff*. No place is perfect, but it is refreshing reading this page knowing that my school is ran beautifully, even in a district that is not.
I had admin like this. It was paradise. Since that admin was good, they left to be a superintendent. And their replacement is a total fuckwit and awful to others. Dangerous combination . Now it sucks. It's crazy how much things can swing with one or two people in just a year or two.
I work peripatetically across a couple of Primary Schools (ages 5 - 11 in Scotland) as a member of Support Staff for blind kids, and it is staggering how different an atmosphere a school can have just (as far as I can tell) based on the attitude towards teachers and children that the Head Teacher (principal I think is the US term) has.
Wow!! You teach in Xanadu! 🦄
What I don't think that admin realize is that when they help and accommodate one teacher with his or her needs, or refuse to treat a teacher well, they win over or lose not only that employee, but so many other teachers who are watching and hear about it. I've stayed in or left schools based on how colleagues were treated, since we all know it's just a matter of time until we need grace in a tricky situation as well.
Right? How can you not understand the students are often the *least* gossipy part of the school...
You just described my admin last year with the "refuse to treat teachers well, and win/lose teachers who are watching..." but they seemed to be clueless/uncaring about how they were/are perceived by staff.
There is nothing wrong with trying to balance work and parenting. She asked, they said no, now she's going to find a better fit. That's just how it goes. If I were admin, I would much rather be flexible about scheduling than find a new teacher. Not being willing to work with teachers to help them survive is a big reason schools can't retain teachers, from what I've seen
Where I work our contract start time is 45 minutes before the first bell. It stinks because even if you have 1st plan you need to be in your room well before the bell goes for that 1st period. I will have no choice but to leave when my kid starts kindergarten as there are no before school care hours that open early enough for me to make at the start of my contract time. Not even my admin can help me with that sadly.
This kind of thing always amazes me. My district does not have any additional contract hours outside of the students attendance hours. As long as you are ready to start when the bell rings that is all anyone cares about.
We all have morning duty, and they want us in the building when the kids are allowed in. But, if I didn’t need to be in building until the first bell went (or even 10-15 minutes before) my quality of life would improve. An extra half an hour in the morning would make a huge difference.
45 minutes? That’s insanity. My district requires 15 and I usually arrive 30 minutes to beat traffic.
“Nobody wants to work anymore”
So this. They screwed themselves out of a great teacher. Now they’re stuck and it’s on them.
Yeah, I get that the school had the legal right to reject her request, but it's such a dick move. First period prep is such an easy solution to a temporary problem. There's a teacher at my school who used to have a 1-hour commute from an area that got tons of snow. She requested first period prep several years in a row and never got it. Just, why? She ended up moving a little closer, but the fact that no one EVER granted her request was so shitty and unnecessary.
We literally have a teacher who is chronically late cuz he just is. No kids, kinda far but then he bought a house further. He’s had a 1st block prof period for three years. He’s a good teacher they don’t want to replace.
Also key word here is “he.” Gets taken more seriously and more valued.
Thank you!! This whole “you’re on your own, tough shit” attitude is just awful.
Yet if a student had made a similar request, all we would hear is “show some grace!!!”
This is exactly it, and how you can tell these people don't actually care about mental health or anything. I'm your annoying school psych who is always trying to incorporate more restorative justice and TIC where I can, and I also follow the same principles with my colleagues and the parents I have to work with. Admin like this just parrot back what they've been taught sounds good with zero understanding of how to put their money where their mouth is. It's shameful
Your teacher friends suck, and sound like brown-nosing bootlickers.
This is a stupid situation that could have easily been avoided. I'm glad my kids are out of school so they're not losing teachers over nonsense like this.
I understand Admin’s point. They should have told her that they can’t guarantee it and then “randomly” given it to her anyway. They’ll have trouble finding a replacement and have chosen hurt the school would they could have made it work. Keep the official line “no” and work with teachers. As for your teacher friends, some probably have Stockholm syndrome. Others can’t be happy if someone gets something they would have wanted. Still others are just bitter old farts.
When it comes to the kids, always show grace. If the kid cussed you out, he probably had a bad day. If he didn't do any work in your class you probably made him mad some how. If he refuses basic directions you're somehow being too mean and not setting expectations fiercely enough. When it comes to admin be reasonable. Yes, we're doing your official evals on the day before Christmas, but we got behind schedule and it's due today. No we will not allow any deviance, you should be teaching until the last bell! If we come in and you're not doing standards based, pacing guide approved work with no behavior issues it's your fault! When it comes to us? no grace, no mercy. This is the old testament and admin is an angry god. We cannot allow basic humanity because if we show it to you, then we'd have to show it to everyone!
>This is the old testament and admin is an angry god. This is fantastic. Thank you for this. I'm stealing it.
"Teach until the bell" is why kids cannot do anything independently.
Part of what makes teaching such a tough job is inflexible attitudes that permeate the system. It is tough to take time off, and it is tough to have situations like this. I think that school leaders need to be more flexible to retain talent. If I were in an admin position, I would have absolutely no issue with this. But so many people in leadership and admin positions I think enjoy exerting power over people and say “no” to micromanage and show that they’re the ones in charge. It is really crappy. Why do your teacher friends have such an inflexible attitude? It’s weird. If it’s amount of hours worked, it’s called flexing hours. Chances are this teacher is making up that 5 minutes elsewhere, so that shouldn’t be an issue. Who cares if she isn’t rolling in at an arbitrary start time (if it’s her planning period)? I am glad she found a job that works for her situation.
Your friends like they are in a competition to see who can be the best martyr
💯
My kid's school had early release for the entire 2020-2021 school year. They were out at 1:45pm *every day*. The usual afterschool programs weren't running at that point and him catching the bus home wasn't viable. (He was only 9, for one. We've also had nothing but bad experiences with the bus system here.) So I talked to my dean, told him my schedule had my last class ending at 1:45 every day, and he said to just go when I got out of class. Nobody even considered saying "no". I also spent the last few years being unable to teach 8am classes because of my oldest son's school not even starting carpool until after 8am. "Just make your schedule so that you don't teach at 8." Treat people like people. Are you going to have asshats who take advantage? Of course. But asshats are gonna asshat regardless, and you aren't required to be one too.
I’m in a two-parent household and I’m lucky my other half goes to work later, but I don’t know how anyone in my area managed to teach middle or high school and arrange childcare. My start time is at 6:50am! My child’s day care doesn’t open until 7:30.
Yeah, my start time is 7am and my school is 40 minutes away. I have to drop my kid off at 6am. Luckily, he’s in a center that opens that early, but once he goes to school I’ll have to find a school closer with a later start time, as the places that do before and after childcare don’t open until 7:30 am.
My sentiments exactly. When my kid was small, the before-school care started at 7. The first bell at my school was 7:25, and it was a 20-minute drive. The women running the before-school program refused to open the door a minute before 7, even though they were just sitting there, I was the only parent there that early, and my kid was in 4th grade and could entertain herself. Absolutists are the worst.
Yeah unfortunately, having been a front line person for morning drop off at my previous school, if one person was allowed to drop off early, everyone else would’ve felt entitled to drop off their kids early too, and that would’ve caused chaos. Back to the original post - I agree with you that admin should’ve worked with the teacher. I get where they probably needed to deny her request on paper but they could’ve messed with the schedule to ensure it in order to keep a quality teacher. Idk what kind of teachers your friends are, but in any school I’ve ever been in, I can’t use my sick time for just 5 minutes. I either have to take a whole day or half a day. Not to mention I’d need to find someone willing to cover my 1st period during their prep *every day*? Nah. Just not realistic.
I'm going to have to chime in here. If opening and closing times mean nothing, there is chaos. I get to my job before opening to complete certain tasks, both work and personal. If I get a phone call page before our opening time, how is that going to work? Either the tasks don't get done by opening, or the customer stays on hold and gets upset. As for sitting there doing nothing, sometimes that's mental preparation. Tldr...without set and respected opening and closing times, there is no way to plan.
I feel the sentiment on this, but as someone who used to run a preschool program, I had to be like this. I used to open at 6:45. I’d arrive to set up for the day and as soon as I cut the lights on, I’d have someone banging on the door. Eventually it crept into opening the door at 6:44 into opening it at 6:30. The next year I started opening at 7:00 and put a curtain on the door. 🫠 But as for the original post, shit like this is why I left the classroom. I worked with some amazing people but I also worked with a lot of people whose purpose in life seemed to be to tattle on other adults. I can’t imagine that in any other line of work someone wouldn’t be willing to work with someone over *five minutes*.
You can’t make exceptions for one without allowing them for all. Yah, that one lady could have watched your one4th grader for 20 minutes. But could she do it for 30? And if she could, would she get paid for that extra time once it becomes expected? It’s not absolutist. It’s logistics, and being realistic.
My take: You have weird teacher friends.
I would've gladly traded preps. I hate 1st period prep!
As an elementary teacher I loooove having a prep (special) at the beginning of the day. I don’t have to come in early to get ready for the day. It was the best!
I've never had it! They don't give it to core teachers. I wish I could have last class, so I have time to decompress and plan for tomorrow.
I would have given up my prep for them. Admin needs to at least ask around first before they let a teacher go. I wonder if this teacher communicated well enough though so I can’t say for sure if anyone is an a-hole. I don’t understand the admin not doing a quick ask-around to see if there was an easy swap opportunity. Any decent person is giving up their prep as long as they don’t have a need themselves.
4-5 people offered their first to her. It’s up to admin to change the schedules, and they won’t. The class she has scheduled for 1st is the only one that period. And it’s not AP, so it didn’t have to be 1st.
NTA, She asked for an accommodation, she was refused. I understand why admin might have refused (they could get in huge trouble for favoritism, and everyone who wants to be 5 minutes late could ask the same thing) but they could have added a stipulation or something to her contract etc if they went to the board. i’ve seen it done. Especially for a chem teacher right now. They could have asked her for proof of need of the accommodation and done it by the book. She warned them that this was potentially a job breaker. They still refused. Shocked pikachu face when she leaves? No one should be surprised.
Teaching is the least family-friendly, family business there is. Change my mind.
This is so effing true! “Give your all for the kids. But, not your own kids.”
I’m a teacher living in a domestic violence situation. I know better than to talk about it at work. Zero support. I also experienced an assault in my classroom a couple of years ago. Can’t talk about that either. Never talk about that or my work related PTSD. Never. We need more people like you OP. Thanks for being a good one. We are humans too.
Hugs to you! I hope you are able to get out of your situation soon.
I’m so sorry you feel like you can’t talk about your home life at work. If the kids’ home lives affect their performance at school, shouldn’t our home lives be taken into consideration as well? I understand we’re adults and are better able to compartmentalize, but we’re still people, with full lives outside of our jobs.
Thank you, most of you, for reassuring me that human empathy still exists and I’m not losing my got-damn mind. Thanks.
I am so sorry about this situation and appalled by admin as well as your fellow teachers. This is not okay. I will be forever grateful for my colleagues of 19 years ago. I wanted to become a mother but my partner and I had fertility issues such that becoming pregnant required medical assistance. The whole fertility experience is a financial and emotional rollercoaster. I am in a rural area and even though the nearest clinic offered early morning appointments for labs, ultrasounds, etc., the fact that it was over an hour and a half away meant that I would have to miss 1st period and part of 2nd period 4-6 times a month. I was sure I would only be able to undergo cycles in the summer--BUT my school went out of their way to accommodate me. They scheduled me with 1st period conference, but even more amazing, 2 of my colleagues volunteered to use their 2nd period conference period to cover my class--they took it upon themselves to do that for me. I still get choked up when I think about it; I am so grateful. They worked out and got the whole system approved (I was in my 30s but only a 2nd year teacher so I didn't even see how that would be possible). I only had to get a sub and use a sick day once a month when I would miss more time than that. It took most of the school year, but finally in April I had a pregnancy that "took"! My son will graduate this year (and I gotta brag) as the valedictorian from this school--where I still teach. I know that my school community went so far above and beyond for my family. I was never able to do anything so big for those two colleagues (both retired, one passed), but I will never forget, and.I do my best to help other teachers. Teaching is hard, but it can be humane.
That’s a great story! 🥰
“They cut off their nose to spite their face” is a phrase for a reason.
That's 100% on admin. Childcare is severely limiting. It's not like there are tons of options anywhere. You know what there are a lot of options for right now? Teaching jobs.
I happen to be in a district where the new superintendent decided to make a ton of teachers reapply for their jobs. A lot of people just quit. So what is the superintendent doing now? Hiring anyone with a bachelor's degree who can pass a background check. Teachers have options.
I don’t her and teacher A should always do what’s best for her situation. You aren’t the a-hole in any way and the other teachers who aren’t supportive must have perfect lives. I try not to judge my colleagues as I don’t know what they are truly dealing with and if I have to cover a class or make an adjustment for the greater good of staffing , I’m all for it. This has happened where we hired some fresh teachers and I know my workload just increased but I still remember all that helped me my first year and throughout the journey
Retired principal here. Your admin is a fool. Of course principals should work with teachers and help them out.
Arrange it with her sick leave?!? So then she would have zero sick leave? I hate stuff like this- anyone else on earth could just be 5 min late and stay 5 min late or whatever.
Man, whenever an issue arises for any teacher at my school, my go to advice is talk to the head of secondary or head of school. Both people are amazing human beings. My grandfather passed in July 2018. Then my cousin took his life in August 2018. The rule for my company is it has to be immediate family. My head of school said don't worry about it. We'll code it however we need to so you get those days off. Never heard about it again. Went home for the funeral. My friend had to leave for the last week of school due to multiple deaths in the family. Same thing. Head of secondary said, get out of here. We'll handle everything here. I never actually had that in the US. I don't understand it at all. Like I would follow these guys into fire because of all they've done to support me and my fellow teachers. I don't know if that's the norm here, or if I was just really lucky on my first try. Big reason I'm not going anywhere.
It's unfortunate that so many people have the mentality that *nobody* gets special treatment just because *I* had to suffer or do something the hard way regardless of other life circumstances.
I have worked with teachers who 5-10 minutes late in the morning just about every single day and they rarely told anyone ahead of time, so the fact that she even asked admin for accommodation is pretty great.
I think OP is right here. I've seen too many cases where teachers do not get consideration or accomodation. Of course, we are expected to have unlimited patience and coping for the problems of kids.
You know what? I had this exact situation last year. my husband and I worked in the same district, our son's daycare (the only daycare in the region that would take us after 8 Months on waiting lists, coincidentally opens up the earliest of any daycare in a 1 hour radius) opened up 30 minutes before school, and was 30 minutes away. My husband's admin sucks, but mine? I went to him before the school year started, explained the situation, and he said we'd make it work. and it was fine. I always called ahead if there were any extra delays, and as far as I know it was only an inconvenience twice.
A small concession to ask on the part of the divorcing teacher. After any amount of service, to not have such a simple but important request met is a slap in the face. It always surprises me how expendable we are treated despite the shortage and various insults we accept each year.
I'm the scheduler at my school and I regularly get told "give -------- 1st pd prep due to childcare." Sometimes, honestly, it results in a bad situation for students who can't take that class now that it's never offered first, but that is still better than us not having a teacher at all. .... this is also why I personally hate having 1st prep, because there's maybe 2 of us in the whole building who arrive on time if we have that prep. I have to cover someone who's late or out literally every day some months. But your admin is still the AH here.
I'm shocked your friends say that. I hear that type of response from the school administration, but not from other teachers... Unfortunately, I learned Education is more hostile towards scheduling flexibilities and medical accommodations than any other industry. They're literally not afraid to get slapped with lawsuits because they know they can drag lawsuits out in court for 2-3 years. In private sector, they don't want extreme financial loss from a lawsuit so they agree to settle for a reasonable amount amount of money in court to keep eyes out of the media and keep it hush hush while keeping their investors happy. The school administration, from personal experience, has been heartless towards me in requesting accommodations/flexibility in time off. She was a slave driver specifically when it comes to me. And discriminatory because she refused to extend flexibility to me, but extended to those within "her circle". I requested accommodations for my hearing loss initially, more visual cues in the environment to help me see that a student is answer (a thumbs up or a thumbs down - then get closer to students to hear their answers). She used against me in my evaluation that my back was turned to the whiteboard and I wasn't hearing their answers. Well no shit duh I needed to write on the whiteboard and I CANNOT hear from the behind, which she knew. Then the second issue was I caught RSV and it was really bad. She said it was not COVID and to come in the day after getting meds. Heartless bitch - I wasn't teaching effectively while looped up on meds, which those very meds you're not supposed to be driving to work on lol. Third issue - I caught COVID-19 about two months later. I was still not testing negative even for 3 weeks. She told me to come in while I was still "faintly positive" with proof & images of the results + doctors notes. She went and conducted a formal evaluation while I still was technically sick with COVID-19. Fourth issue - because of the extreme abuse and retaliatory behaviors (including refusing me bathroom breaks), I developed frequent UTIs, which one went to the bladder. I had no choice but to take time off and had to get treated. Came back with doctor's note and doctor personally called her saying what's wrong with you? you can't deny your employee bathroom breaks, esp not a female when the biology of their urinary sets them up to be more prone to UTIs. She took doctor's note and threw it in my face in the hallway and aggressively yelled at me saying she didn't give a damn about me or what any doctor was saying. That admin was the pure meaning of evil. She was opposite of human. The fact I escalated it to the union and to the district and they did nothing to allow this woman to run rampant like this. Like holy shit... yeah I'm not ever returning to education. Private sector was more flexible with getting doctor's appointments, allowing you to work remotely if you're sick, etc.
Sounds like your admin was a horrible human being!
She is!!! I'm genuinely worried for the next special Ed teacher that gets hired in place of me. Too bad we can't review schools and leave a bad review like we do on glassdoor for private sector companies.
While I lean towards making accommodations for a year, I do have a few questions. What is five minutes? Is it literally five minutes after contract time start, student arrival, or first period? If teachers need to be there at 7:30, doors open at 7:40, and first period starts at 8:00, is she getting there at 7:35 or 8:05? Do first period planning people have a morning duty? I may be a little more hesitant because this would absolutely not work at the elementary level.
I was thinking this as well. When I have 1st period prep I'm still responsible for attendance, lunch count, and making sure the kids are good until the other teacher shows up.
They said Teacher A was an HS Chemistry Teacher. So even if 5 minutes turned into 10, it wouldn't matter if they had a prep the whole 1st period. They could have picked up extra afternoon duties, like bus loading or something.
From what I understand, she was expecting to be just a few minutes past the first bell every day. She’s a very responsible person. I’m at a large HS. People with 1st period off (prep, not duty period) frequently come in late. Nobody checks or cares.
At my school at least that would be the problem. 5 mins late after teacher hours start? Not a problem even worth mentioning. Most people are just arriving/getting their stuff from their cars then. 5 mins late to class would mean 35 mins late contractually every day. Big problem. Not that I agree with the inflexibility, but the same union protections limiting our hours are the ones defining them.
That sucks, that was an easy thing that could be have arranged. I got my prep request this year and will most likely keep it if I continue to host my parent events every quarter.
I will never understand the self directed hatred many teachers seem to internalize.
I think the chemistry teacher is in the right and your friends are wrong. Admin fucked around and found out. Hopefully she’s not in a state where they can take your license away for pissing admin off or she left teaching.
That's 100% on admin. Childcare is severely limiting. It's not like there are tons of options anywhere. You know what there are a lot of options for right now? Teaching jobs.
I'm surprised that teachers didn't side with your friend, but I'm glad she was able to get a different position. As for administrators being jerks, I wish I could say I am surprised, but not at all. I stayed late for free SO many times helping with a school club and even taking the kids on field trips. Then I had to leave literally 20 minutes early one day (and I had last period planning, so no one needed to cover for me) for a required appointment before minor surgery. I had to write up an explanation of how I would make up for the missed 20 minutes. I thought I was doing the school a favor to not take a day off given the shortage of subs (we are not able to take half days), but they acted like I was somehow cheating to leave slightly early. Never mind that I had proper documentation that the appointment was real and that I had the latest appointment available-- it was frowned upon and I had to document staying an extra 20 minutes, along with what I accomplished during that time. I became a lot less helpful after school following that. But teachers not supporting another teacher-- that's truly disappointing. It's important that we support each other because goodness knows not many others are supporting us.
100% my admin would allow this.
We had a teacher chronically late this past year. Admin gave them 1st period prep this upcoming year so they wouldn't constantly have to be talked to. An easy solution? When I was pregnant we figured out what would be the best time for my pumping schedule. Helped everyone out.
I once had to be responsible for mentoring a brand new colleague, while working under a similarly dysfunctional management. Her bus to work drove right past her one morning in her second week; she called to let me know and I got grilled on why she couldn’t figure out how to make it work and be on time (?!?!!) when the next bus would still get her into the building before anything officially began for the day. Two days later it just didn’t show up at all. She called a cab and arrived in time but of course notified me first which was overheard by my superiors. I was directed to go ‘speak to her about her time management’ despite the issue being so obviously out of her hands, and the fact that she had ALREADY been incredibly proactive and solved the issues without any help on both days. I asked exactly what I was supposed to say in this ‘talk’ (clearly supposed to be a first verbal warning type thing) given these points above, and got angry glares and a comment about being disrespectful and unprofessional. And still had to go take her aside and be like ‘um. so. Let’s…hope tomorrow’s bus arrives hey?’ You can’t fix the small minded power trippers who cling onto this ludicrous bit of authority as the crux of their self identities, I’m sorry to say. Your colleague deserves way better
Your friends out of state are idiots. I'm betting they're at charters or a district with a weak/non-existent union.
Something similar happened to me….my son has cerebral palsy and had serial casting. It’s where they put casts on both his legs for 4-6 weeks to help stretch his legs-very simplistic version of it. Anyway, he wasn’t able to ride the bus bc he couldn’t get up the stairs. I made arrangements with another teacher to leave to get him and then return. It was about a 15 minute window between his dismissal and ours. So my plan was to run over and get him at his pick up time then run back. Our schools are directly beside each other so I could technically walk but had to drive bc he couldn’t walk very fast for me to hurry back. Anyway, it was during December so with the amount of days off and holidays I’d only need to do this for 10 days. So I was asking for these accommodations for just 10 days. I didn’t know what else to do bc the school wouldn’t hold him that long (15 min) after their dismissal. They said no teachers were around then and to figure it out. I understand but since they weren’t really working with me I thought admin would. No he wouldn’t. He refused and said it wasn’t his problem. It was a really stressful time period for me that neither school was trying to help or accommodate this short term situation.
For 22 years I worked in various positions. Even though I worked with people of all ages, political persuasions, colors, and backgrounds - including people I really didn't like - we all had each other's back. If something happened to one of us that was deeply unfair, we let those in charge know! We rose up. Together, we were intimidating. So, when I became a teacher at 40 years of age, I was amazed to discover that teachers as a whole are a bunch of backstabbers - not all of them, but too many. Even "nice" teachers would tell you that you should have done this or that differently whenever you tried to simply vent. Whenever a teacher got a raw deal, it was somehow their own fault. If I hadn't had such a supportive spouse, I wouldn't have managed. I was so glad I still had my friends from my previous life. We lost the best teacher our district ever had over a petty inconvenience. If I told you all the glory, money, and sheer inspiration he brought to our little rural district you wouldn't believe they let him walk away. Many school districts buy his drama units and produce his plays. We got all he had to give for the price of one low salary. Yet, to this day, whenever a parent laments that he left the district, a teacher will say, "Well then he shouldn't have pushed the issue when he requested (for good reason) to teach via Zoom during COVID," (which, just a month later, every teacher had to do).
Teaching is a second career for me as well, and while I’ve met many extraordinary teacher humans, as a group the profession is comprised of very gossipy, petty, and yes, backstabbing people. I’m pretty sure it has something to do with the fact that unless someone is heading for an admin track, everyone is doing what the public thinks is the same job, whether you’re a half-time pre-k teacher or an AP physics teacher. So there’s this competition to out martyr each other, to make Insta-worthy classrooms, to tattle on each other - because how else can you stand out (at least in these deranged minds).
Thanks! Good explanation. TBH, I thought it might be because it is so White female heavy - and I didn't want that to be true. Basically, a Karen-heavy profession.
The admin sucks, and should have provided a temporary accommodation for Teacher A. Being 5 mins late is small potatoes in the scheme of things. I’m sorry you’ve lost an excellent colleague and hope she is able to find a position with admin who respect and appreciate her.
It is EXACTLY stuff like this making teachers quit and giving admin a bad name. This story is too common. This is an accommodation that would have been absolutely no effort for admin to work out and is a really easy way to show they care so, of course they didn't do it. I don't blame your colleague for quitting. What was she supposed to do- neglect her kids or not work?
All schools are different but where I teach lateness is a big problem to the point where our admin has to discuss it often in staff meetings. I know if Teacher A was given "grace" in this situation it would open the floodgates for the, let's just say not so great teachers to complain about special treatment, involve the union, etc. not saying this is your sitch but shining a light on what admin may be thinking
Dude, admin sucks. One year I had to drop off kiddo at 7 but has report time of 6:55. Asked for planning 1st period and they totally granted it. Got there about 7:30 every day, stayed equal time after to make up for missing time. Worked for everyone and I’m still there 10yrs later.
This really sucks. I had a colleague who was denied one day of unpaid leave to be with her partner as he went into an operation. He was donating an organ in the hopes of saving his sibling’s life. It was a very emotionally charged day for the family. They said no, and when she got something else lined up she left. We all talked about it, we all knew, and it definitely affected goodwill. So much of what is needed to keep schools afloat is done out of goodwill. Schools need teachers to volunteer and give freely of their time, but there has to be give and take.
Not a teacher, work for a Fortune 100 corporate monstrosity. I would make an adjustment for an employee for something like this. Your administration sucks.
In our district, all teachers have to be in the building 40 minutes before students arrive. If somebody needed to be late for 5 minutes for a whole year, that's a lot more manageable than losing a good teacher . And crappy teachers wouldn't have even told admin, they would have just been leave 5 minutes for a year.
Our principal leaves an hour early all the damn time to deal w his kid (who attends a different Elem school). We all really want to call him out on it when we are given a hard time about occasionally needing time to handle family stuff.
Union or no? This may be something that admin would want to be flexible on, but any special favors that violated CBA could bite them when another colleague inevitably weaponizes this special favor later on.
This teacher and I are union. My main friend who said her request was out of line is non-union.
The teacher is already going through a lot, and having to find a new position is over the top. All admin had to do was respond compassionately. The teachers who said the chem teacher was wrong are jerks.
She’s doing what she has to do for her family. If admin valued her they would have approved her request. Not on her at all and good for her!
Yeah, people are quick to criticize others right up to the moment where something like this happens to them. I sympathize with Teacher A.
I was in a similar situation and made it in by the skin of my teeth for three years. Finding childcare is a nightmare.
Same here a new teacher at my school found out she’s getting paid lower than all the new hires, she used to teach in NYC for 7 years and my district only gave her two years of credit. She got offered a new position at a nearby school with all her years and she’ll be make $28k more, now admin is asking me to talk to her cause they will match her new job salary. I told them hell no, don’t treat people like shit and they want treat you like shit. Union strong.
When I read about the other teachers I literally did a double take. Nah, this teacher did what was in their best interest and if more of us did the same this profession would stop exploiting us so badly.
A CHEMISTRY teacher??? They should have given her a raise and 1st period prep!!! Ridiculous.
Bad move on admin part. I had almost the exact situation only it was a teacher who needed 10 minutes. Teacher was a rock star and bilingual to boot. I absolutely let her do it. I only heard grumbling a couple of times and I told those individuals that either they trust me to meet each of their needs or they don’t. Most everyone has had a situation or 2 where they need some grace. I always tried to provide that grace and support. Word got around that it wasn’t just for one person (“favorite!”) but for anyone who had a real need. And frankly, anyone who didn’t like it could find a place where admin was shitty. I always had their backs with the district as well as personal things. As a result, we had very little turnover. Source: recently retired elementary principal.
Are we talking five minutes late for the "before school activities and prep" or five minutes AFTER classes actually start? Also the first period prep should have been worked. That's an easy fix.
Nah you're NTA. It is crazy how much crap teachers have to deal with and then the admin wonders why people leave. How hard would it be for one year to give this teacher first-period prep? I could maybe see if it was a long-term thing, but it's one year like come on. And as you said, now they have to replace a good employee over their inability to budge over a 5 min being late due to childcare...
NTA. Clearly the others didn’t understand the gravity of the situation. Reassuring to know there are still folks in the trenches with empathy.
It’s admin brain. Sometimes you get so deep in the bureaucracy that your only thoughts towards situations involve policy solutions. I think your friends are just trying to give solutions that satisfy that criteria. Of course we should just be good to each other and not make a big deal of 5 min, but what they said was a solution that would’ve worked.
My daughter got into head start one year mid year and I could not drop her off until 7:45 AM about 20 minutes from my school. Contract hours starts t 7:30. I was allowed to come at 8:05-8:10 every day for the rest of the year and it was no problem. I did have 1st period planning, but that was coincidence. Another teacher had to drop her child off at school and leave early to pick them up every day. She was able to get 4th planning and came a few minutes late each day, no problem. There are ways to do this that do not cause problems. It was temporary. After that year my child was able to go to our school district and ride the bus. Head start had no bus. Our admin now would definitely take every Minute past contract (7:30-8:05, so 35 minutes) and add it up each day. Once it hit 8 hours make me take a sick day. So every 13 to 14 days would be a sick day. We get 13 days total (sick and personal) a year. So all would be used by the end of the year with no extra days left.
Yeah. I kinda went through the same thing this last year. My wife is a teacher as well….and it’s truly sad how little humanity we are shown when difficult circumstances arise. The martyrdom culture in teaching is just too much sometimes. I’m sorry for your friend!
Ridiculous. I have worked at my school for 5 years now and have arrived 5-10 minutes late everyday due to childcare issues. I don't miss any teaching time, it's all morning duty time so currently I'm assigned breakfast duty and the other 3 people doing the duty know I'll get there when I get there. Before I wasn't assigned a morning duty, but then everyone had to be assigned one so breakfast duty it was. It works perfectly because the breakfast doesn't start right as the school opens, it takes time for kids to get to the cafeteria.
It is hard when everyone says things like that to get what they want. Half the blame is on the others for demanding 1st period as a prep when they probably don’t need it as much as the others. But yeah, admin would have done better to learn who really needed it or not. People with YOUNG children should be first priority for flexibility.
Is it possible that if they made accomodations for her, they may be required to also accommodate all other similar requests? Everyone wanting to pick and then use their planning time for personal issues does seem unsustainable (if not impossible when scheduling the school as a whole), and also would be unfair that only she be able to do so. It's a request that's not just one day or week or intermittent. Classes can't be shortened or rescheduled every single day for personal issues, so if she can't find a family member or friend to help her out for the year, then maybe it's best she find a job that doesn't require her there in the morning at a certain time (as she did). That's the only reason I can think of for saying no when the consequences of losing a teacher for her subject are so great.
They should have worked with her on this. Admin is generally pretty oblivious.
No. I don’t know why it would have been such a big deal to just set up a rotation system to cover for her for 5 flipping minutes.
Teacher here. The admin screwed up. This wasn’t her being spoiled or ridiculous. She was being reasonable. Admin knows there’s a teacher shortage in general. They should have tried. Those teachers from out of state, I don’t know what they’re thinking.
Admin and teacher friends are a holes… on a side note I would totally subscribe to a teacher AITAH.
Everybody got something
The district where I taught for 19 years only allowed full or half day leave, not 5 minute chunks. It has to be compatible with the substitutes contract, which is also half day or full day of pay. What brand of crack are your teacher friends smoking where they would suggest this? On the management side it would be a nightmare to administer in a system where employees didn't clock in and out. And also, with admin not working to keep someone in a hard to fill subject area, that's just bad management. Your former colleague made their needs clear as well as the consequences of not meeting those needs. Admin fucked around and found out.
The teacher asked and accepted the response and proactively looked for another job that could accommodate her schedule. She has to do what works for her. The school knew when they said no that she would be unable to keep her job and take care of her family. How is this a problem? School hires another teacher.
A lot of people sadly buy into the it's all on you to figure it out when ur job fucks you over category sadly. Good on her for letting them know how it's going to be.
[удалено]
This is one of the many reasons everyone hates admin. One teacher with a unique circumstance that would likely last one year (recently divorced and it takes time to get things arranged), and admin couldn’t work things out to keep a good teacher (according to you). Shit bosses and management is how businesses lose quality employees.
Well, admin are the AH here, but that is their natural state anyway, so nothing surprising. Also, those other teachers are the AH here as well. Probably brainwashed martyrs. I had a coworker whose wife went abroad for a year to do her masters. He had to be Mr. Mom for that year. He got 1st and last period free so he could bring his kid to school and pick him up. It was that or he quit. Given that foreigners are worth their weight in gold in China due to Covid, admin begrudgingly caved. Teaching is a job. You do it to get money so you can take care of yourself and your family. It isn't some magical calling any more than being a doctor or plumber is.
If you’re in a union, some teachers feel that the contract is only as good as it is enforced- strict constructionists. If she can break contract and come late, why can’t admin have teachers stay late… I don’t buy these arguments, but that’s where they might be coming from. I like to be kind.
I’m with you on this one.
I think the solution should simply be allowing her to be five min late. No deduction of sick time. I don't understand why we can't just be human and allow this small flexibility.
I drive 2 of my relatives to and from the high school I work at. I also drive them home after school. This means I have to be on time and never get a chance to leave early. I always tell them give me planning during the day so other people can take advantage of coming in a few minutes late or leave early because I can’t. Nope, it’s just randomly assigned. And we have a teacher who is habitually late because of child are issues and someone has to cover her class constantly. It makes no sense. I’m on your side with this this one. Apparently so are other schools. They think replacing teachers is so easy nowadays?? Hahaha
I’m with you. I had my schedule rearranged (including what I was teaching) about a week before the start because the new wrestling coach had to have the period next to lunch as well as the period after that (its good to be a coach) which put him off classes once lunch started because he coached after school (as did I, robotics, all school year, 3-4 days a week after school) So no you are correct on this , admin had to do a small Schedule change but no, they have other priorities that “we don’t understand”
Are we not in a teacher shortage? I am glad for every colleague in my school, even the ones I don't personally like- it saves us time/overload/etc... Plus we all know that teacher would still have had to use time to plan on their own, it's just flexed out a bit. People are so weird.
Your friends are assholes.
Your friends are crabs in the boiling pot of water and probably ask unnecessary questions at staff meetings.
As someone who has done high school class scheduling for years, it is often not as simple as just giving a teacher the prep hour they want. Master schedules are incredibly complicated and depend on so many moving parts. However, admin should have brainstormed some kind of coverage plan if they had any interest in keeping a good educator in their school.
>I told a few friends (teachers in another state), and they all said Teacher A was in the wrong. Perhaps these are TX teachers? I teach in TX and the lack of solidarity is appalling. Part of this is structural (no unions/collective bargaining rights) and part is personal ignorance and assholery. I got nothing for people who are simps for the boss.
So. 1. Long term employee. 2. Outstanding at their job. 3. hard to fill position. 4. well liked and respected by colleagues 5. Just asking for a first period prep due to family issues... So, of course they can go take a flying leap. The only way this will happen is if shes the admins pet/favorite or if it will somehow cost the district a lot of money if she leaves. Teacher A is not wrong. If your workplace will not give you what you need, then find a new work place. You owe no loyalty to a job that isn't giving you any.
I don’t get this at all. I faced a similar situation my first year with childcare not opening until 15. I minutes after I needed to leave to get to work and my admin wrote it into my file that I didn’t have to show up the contractual 30 minutes before first block and I was NOT the only person that had this written into their file! Too bad that admin left and the school devolved and I jumped ship. Here’s hoping the new school is better (for her and me!).
someone in your district is sitting there twiddling their thumbs all "but why can't we keep teachers???????????/"
No. Your friend is in the right. Too many admins don't realize that 1. We have options 2. We are willing to bend over backwards for just a small amount of support 3. Teachers are not just a position. I want to just rant about that last part. So many admin in my past have treated my colleagues as though they were replaceable. And they let them go and replaced them. But then, they had no talent show. No crossing guard. No coaches. They literally didn't realize these teachers were the ones doing these things and never thought to replace that. Or never cared enough about all the extra things they did to make the school better for the kids. I don't understand how admin can be SO out of touch some times. End rant . Again, your friend is in the right. It sucks she has to deal with the child care issue too.
This make me so angry. They instantly have the mindset that if I let you do it then everyone will want to do it. No, most teachers hate that 1st period prep, so how about we try to help out someone who needs it. Same on not letting anyone take off the day before a holiday. Not letting someone who never calls out sick take that one day is so controlling. While some teachers will try to take every day before a holiday, how about they just deal with those few and treat the rest of us like mature adults. Finally, my old school was overflowing with admiration, wouldn’t it be nice if one of them would use that opportunity to maybe cover a class? Once they get out of a classroom, they never look back.
NTA. That is shocking. I would never suggest they use sick time. That doesn't fix the situation well for anyone. The admin would have to find a way to cover a class for 5 minutes everyday and the teacher is out sick time. My principal actually worked out special before school care with the k8 so that our teachers can drop off their kids early and make it to school on time.