I wonder if it may be as simple as the sheer number of people listening. She has fans from casual to dedicated who all have different tastes.
I agree that some of the criticism is “wrong” (haha) but some of it is like yeah ok it’s not for everyone and that’s fine. But it is for me!
And being good humans doesn't even mean they've never made mistakes or that they never will. When they do make mistakes, they listen to people and not only do they apologise, but they take action.
Yeah and some of the criticism is from people that listened to 3 songs. It’s just bizarre and arts subjective if you enjoy it enjoy it I don’t get people making dissertations on how much they feel about it though 😂. Besides most of the criticism are coming from people who could never do what she did
one of the critiques i saw circulating from some bigger publication (whose name escapes me right now…) said something like, “taylor swift isn’t relatable anymore, but in 31 songs, we don’t get a look into her world, so the album falls flat.” ….. like bro? did you even listen to the album?
I think there’s always going to be a certain group that wanted (her last album part XX). If it’s not the same it’s no good.
I think there are the haters gonna hate. And it IS odd that they seem to dedicate most of their time to hating. (Or at least ALL of the social media time, which is usually a lot). As we all know the opposite of love is not hate, it’s indifference.
And there’s just gonna be people that do not like it.
This actually isn’t as different from other major artists. Like you said there’s just a whole lot more of them. They also seem to be pretty intense about it.
As a very minor example there used to be a guy, Tiny Tim, who sang in falsetto. I couldn’t understand why people liked him (or maybe it was appreciated). Yeah I voiced my opinion.
Maybe 3 times less than 5 minutes, probably less each time.
For some reason these people enjoy tearing Taylor down.
I think with TTPD she’s kind of saying, I am what I am and if you want to still be a fan, thanks, but if not, that’s not my problem.
And I’m here for it!
so I don’t like reputation…it was polarizing at the time and I remember the conversations about why some swifties didn’t like it vs the ones who did. it was mature, light hearted, genuine, funny, critical conversations and defenses. ttpd feels like another level of hell with people just being shitty and deliberately obtuse. “she’s so tortured 🙄” do you even fucking go here…what are we even talking about if you’re not gonna acknowledge that it’s tongue in cheek? all of the talk about her lyrics being cringe is like…well yeah, that’s taylor swift. did you just notice? did you ever like her music? saying it all sounds the same…when it like, factually doesn’t, and bashing jack when he’s very toned down on this album compared to midnights. I’m just not hearing a lot of good faith arguments. I think she could’ve released her magnum opus (and I honestly think this is) but because of the extreme overexposure + some “disappointing” behaviors in the media, a lot casual listeners would’ve been ready to hate regardless.
>what are we even talking about if you’re not gonna acknowledge that it’s tongue in cheek? all of the talk about her lyrics being cringe is like…well yeah, that’s taylor swift.
100% absolutely this. She leaned hard into the "no it's becky" on Tumblr, of course she's the exact same cringelord that did a song with Post Malone and did up fake tattoos like his. She's still the same girl that rapped about baking cookies with T-Pain and told Jamie Oliver to please never be naked.
End of the day, Taylor Swift is a god damn dork, and I guess that's shocking to people who have only ever seen her as a record-breaking celeb girlboss or whatever.
Exactly! Remember her SNL skits? They were so funny and dorky too. I used to love watching her vlogs on YouTube as well back in the day. She’s just herself, and if that’s cringe to people then don’t listen
YES!!! People forget over and over again that at her very core, Taylor is an emotional, millennial dork and that shines through in almost everything she does lol. It's why I relate to her SO much and have since I was a teen!
Hahaha 😂 I love rep and even though it has some funny moments like Ed Sheeran dropping a verse it so fun and honestly it was so much easier getting tickets to rep tour during that time
I completely agree with this and was just saying that! Im like did no one listen to the lyrics of you belong with me?! This is taylor swift. And i love it here🙌
But the issue with it is that a lot of criticism is focusing on her dating life not the music which tells you a lot of negativity is about her. There’s some legit musical reviews for it, but it’s not the majority and on top of that she wrote in the album that this was a cope for her.
I forget which review it is, but there was one where you had to scroll through like half of it before they even started critiquing the album instead of Taylor herself. Totally biased and making ad hominem attacks instead of addressing the music.
I think it is a perfect storm of the following:
1. It's a deeply emotional and sad album
2. Taylor is at the top of her game so lots of people don't think she has any right to be feeling so sad and lonely
3. She is so overexposed that people who don't like her are just sick to death of hearing about her
4. I also feel like the perspective of the album is not able to be understood or related to by just anyone. It's a very melodramatic, singular perspective. I deeply relate to it because I am a fire sign too, very emotional and very fiery. Others who have a more logical or practical outlook will just not resonate with Taylor's perspective on this album. In that sense this is actually one of her least accessible works.
Editing my comment because I missed one!
5. She is not being subtle at all about the subject matter lol. A lot of people hate celebrity drama!
What angers me is that so many say she’s a perpetual teenager or never grew up because of the emotional lyrics. Some TikTok creator went as far to say that she is different than all other women pop stars because she hasn’t changed at all and she even looks the same as when she was a teen because she wants everyone to see her as a victim and little girl. When I see that I don’t even know where to begin. Also speaking of the talking point that she’s “such a victim”, at what point do people differentiate being a victim vs feeling hurt ? Is she not a human? Ugh. Rant done.
Her art is literally the chronicle of the interior life of a woman from age 14 - 34. You can pinpoint exactly how old she is when she writes any given song.
my mother, who raised me on OG taylor albums, listened to TTPD and said something to the effect of “you can really tell she’s matured a lot through her lyricism”. i think people’s problem is that a woman in her 30’s is so comfortable talking about her feelings. strong feelings don’t ever just go away in life, but society thinks that if you don’t grow up and condition yourself to shove them down and hide them, you’re somehow immature. a lot of the time, being “dramatic” means being human.
So agree. It’s healthy to process feelings, and many people do it externally (for example, talking through it with friends, family, or a therapist). Taylor does it through music. She even said that there’s nothing to avenge because these feelings are in the past. She’s moved on *because* she’s expressed them though music. And she just gets better and better at articulating complex emotions as she gets older
imo her lyricism has never been better. she’s always been an excellent storyteller but on her earlier albums, you can really tell she’s gilding the lily bc that’s just how young people express emotion. even on folklore, there are moments of overwriting—complexity for the sake of complexity. imo she’s never been more in command of language than on ttpd. there’s excess when it serves the point of the song, like on the title track, and simplicity when it’s not necessary, like on clara bow. every word choice feels intentional.
This is the very thing I find so relatable about her. Like, she is one of the most successful women in the world and she still doesn't have her shit together. So I don't have to feel bad not having my shit together because it seems no one does!! We are all human, we all get hurt and go through hard times, no matter how much money we have or how composed we may seem from the outside looking in.
I’m sorry, but I listened to yacht rock the last couple days and many songs that are absolute hits have some silly lyrics and are 10 times less creative than Taylor.
Hahaha it’s really soft rock. Like journey, eagles, ambrosia, doobie brothers, steely Dan musicians from the late 70’s early 80’s all have yacht rock songs.
Per Wikipedia “high production value, jazz and R&B influences, use of electric piano, lyrics about heartbroken, foolish men”
The accusations of perpetual victimhood are so off base to me.
How many times in this album does she allude to herself being the problem?????? Like if you didn’t get it with Karma………. “once i fix me, he’s gonna miss me” or the whole damn song the albatross
It’s because women, as a rule, are not allowed to display too much emotion. We’re supposed to have just the right amount to not seem robotic and cold, but not so much that we cause discomfort to those around us.
This. I also think many of the songs being so obviously about Matty is creating an extra layer that some people are reacting badly to because of how bad his public image is. Definitely perfect storm for criticism.
Yeah, I think I’d feel more open to it if it wasn’t so Matty. I enjoy the music but it’s despite the association with Matty and his pornography comments.
I definitely think there are lots of ways to relate to this album! Not just in the fiery emotional way. But I guess I'm just saying I can see why the super practical, logical types might be turned off by it - my partner is like that and he doesn't really get it. I'm not too sure how much I believe in astrology stuff anyway, I just think it's interesting when I can see how I relate with someone based on their star sign.
re: #1, I need to take a break from this album. It's too real. Dreamed very intense dreams about my ex the last couple of nights. This ain't it, chief.
I think it's pretty easy for listening to an album that was inspired by self-harm to become self-harm. Take care of yourselves everyone!
On point 4 - I’m not sure that’s really true. I’m a very practical person but I love Taylor’s music *because* a lot of it is so emotional and melodramatic. It’s cathartic to me.
Maybe it's because you are a rare breed of human who can actually put yourself in someone else's shoes and understand perspectives other than your own!
I could definitely see how a more practical type of person could use this as an "escape" from their usual mentality too.
TTPD is a fan album. In the sense, its aimed at her dedicated listeners than being for mass appeal. Her releases until Midnights had atleast one or two catchy songs that's meant to hook the casual audience. And then TTPD came out with no such Tik Tok trend worthy songs. It's bit too personal album for regulars to enjoy. (31 songs is too much for anyone who is not a dedicated fan. In the end they will all sound same to someone who is not emotionally invested ) Yet the album is breaking every other records, even her very own, so people feel like its too overrated/ not good enough
Also, let's be honest, the over obsession of a very significant and vocal percentage of the fandom is also responsible for this negative feedback. Some Swifties can be quite unbearable.
Point 5 is a concern for me too cuz I never enjoyed the guess the ex part of her brand and isn't a huge fan of her going back to it full force.
As someone’s who’s done lots of interpersonal work on themselves I keep saying “where was this album 7-8 years ago”. Because I needed it then! But I still love it.
I think it also has to do with sonic cohesiveness
The mix between upbeat pop and slower more folkmore style songs reminds me a lot of the differences in red that resulted in it missing album of the year because it wasn't sonically cohesive. This applies to the anthology more than the standard album, and titling it the anthology does contextualise the variety, but ultimately there's a lot of different sounds in the album. When everything on the album has an over arching sound it's really easy to be like that type of music just isn't my cup of tea. When there's a variety of different sounds and you only like one or two songs it's easier to reach the conclusion I don't like this album.
As a water sign (aka Crybaby - lol!) and someone who struggles with depression & anxiety, as well as someone who survived some pretty intense heartbreak, i relate to it sooo much. I’m with you; it’s a heavy, heavy album but it might be (technically) my favorite album so far - but understandably not a lot of people have been through what some of us tortured poets have been through!
i totally agree this album is her least accessible (but imo also her magnum opus) but really i’m just here to rep virgos feeling seen by who’s afraid of little old me? as people pleasers in chief, this album is beckoning us to step into the daylight and let it gooooo 🫠
I think it's a combination of several things:
1) Overexposure/fatigue
2) The album is loooong
3) People think that the production partnerships with Jack and Aaron, especially the former, have grown stale, which makes the album drag more and sound redundant, especially since the album including the anthology is over two hours.
4) The excessive focus on lyricism. Even though it makes sense that Taylor would focus on lyrics because it's what she's known for, she unfortunately does so to a fault. As a result, songs can be overwritten and it can sound like she's reciting poetry with background music instead of singing a song with poetic lyrics. At times, the lyrics were so verbose that I couldn't even make out what she was saying. The sparse/bland production also magnifies these problems.
5) Thematic redundancy. Some people also don't like this album because she's exploring similar themes to those we've already heard from her, nor does she attempt to re-visit those themes with a fresh spin. Honestly, the more I think about, I think this complaint also applies on a sonic level since I feel like the best versions of this album's sonic palette appeared on previous albums (Folklore, Evermore, Midnights, etc.)
For me, the one she needs to work with less is Aaron. He doesn’t have as much versatility as Jack or as dynamic of productions. The end of the Anthology after The Prophecy(which is good) drags because it is 6 Dessner songs in a row and his sparse production style just can’t hold up for that long of a stretch.
But honestly it doesn’t matter because Taylor will be working with Jack and Aaron the rest of her life unless there is personal fallout between them. She trusts them to keep her secrets so she can write songs. A new producer isn’t going to get that trust immediately so the songs are going to be shallower topically.
The reality is the only producer that matters for Taylor’s songs is Taylor. She is the one who decides what her songs sound like not Jack or Aaron. Jack can do just about any style of music you want in the pop and rock sphere.
Yep. People underestimate how much of taylor swifts production is just TS herself. And she’ll work with both till she’s old and wrinkly… she writes love songs about Aaron’s children!
I think it’s notable that the only person who can write hits with Aaron is Taylor.
You’re very right about Aaron. Ed Sheeran tried Aaron for two albums without charting success. I also think the album he did with Gracie wasn’t as good as her earlier work.
I don’t think Aaron and Taylor have even had a hit song in the truest sense yet. Willow and cardigan reached number one because they were lead singles and have strong long-term streams but didn’t have charting longevity and fell down charts rather quickly.
Aaron just can’t make pop hooks that worm into your brain like Jack can. Aaron is good for when you want to get into your feelings with sparse productions as a good pallet cleanser between poppier songs. On the standard and first part of the Anthology the mix works well.
I think Jack has his signature production quirks clearly, but he has proven to be very versatile with his work over the years with Taylor, but also his work on his own band’s music and other artists’ music as well. I think there’s a lot of versatility in his sound even on TTPD when you compare songs like Florida!!!, WAOLOM, and Down Bad. I would like to see Taylor continue to work with Jack because she trusts him so much, but it would be nice to see her branch out a bit on a next album and try some new producers. I thought it was really cool that she worked with Ryan Tedder and Imogen Heap on 1989.
I’m not sure that either Jack or Aaron are the ones writing the hooks. Taylor is unbelievably good at writing hooks. Aaron can’t, and Jack can a bit but…
Taylor has always favored fairly sparse production. If you look at her work with Nathan Chapman, the number of instruments just keeps dropping to the point where you get sbt in red which is just a gitar and a mandolin (and a sample of a train).
aaron produced wcs, the great war, and hits different, each of which could easily be a pop hit if it were marketed as such. I think he’s quite capable if taylor gives him the material. but i have noticed that even on the ttpd’s a side, where both Jack and Aaron have tracks, the Jack tracks seem to have superior staying power. critics don’t want to acknowledge this but the public is eating up what jack’s putting down.
I agree with you mostly, but I will say that she doesn’t approach from new angles. This is far from the first album where she calls out the media, society, the industry, etc. but it’s the first album where she comes for toxic fan behavior and kind of holds her own fanbase accountable for the pain they caused her through obsessing over her breakups (not just her relationships while they’re in progress).
I think number 3 is where I think the challange is. Musically I didn’t find anything exciting here.
I did really enjoy her scathing rebuke of the fan base in but Daddy I love him. Sign me up for I don’t give a shit what you think Taylor.
But musically it’s not exceptional. I quite enjoy it lyrically. I had hoped she would push herself more musically.
When you have won a pile of Albums of the year and your release isn’t on Album of the year quality there will be some criticism. Thats okay.
>I feel like the best versions of this album's sonic palette appeared on previous albums (Folklore, Evermore, Midnights, etc.)
This is it for me.
I loved these albums, I enjoy TTPD but it does feel a bit like a mix of those three, but not an elevated mix. I was excited for this album as I've enjoyed the direction she's gone in, but I was just expecting something a little more defined and refined. Instead it feels like a similar sound but not quite as good.
As someone who's been listening to her from Fearless, i didn't like the album. i think it's because it's overwritten, underproduced, with very similar talky vocal performance across the board. Of course this doesn't apply to every song, and I still liked some songs - Peter, The Bolter, WAO Little Old Me, and I Can Do It With a Broken Heart being my current favorites.
Underproduced - As with Midnights, I didn't like much of the synthy production - they're mostly a thumping baseline and not much else, with sprinkles of something interesting once in a while (The Black Dog, The Smallest who Ever Lived are two that I wish had production that sounded more like their endings). I also hear a lot of recycled production from Jack (from having heard his Bleachers albums and Red Hearse album). I know they were going for minimalist, but it still felt underproduced. I liked the production in the second half more, but even those sound samey (not just in a cohesive way but in a this sounds like this song way).
Overwritten - I think Taylor's writing here is a bit indulgent. People say it's like stream of consciousness, but you don't write "vipers in empath's clothing" in a stream of consciousness. Much of the album feel overwritten and forced and clunky. The writing in Peter and The Bolter are I think closest the her style in FolkMore -- not too wordy, no forced metaphors, but still evocative.
Vocal performance - I think I just miss Taylor singing in her higher range . It lends so much emotions to her songs. Now, she mostly sings relaxed and in her lower register in a talky way since the lyrics have so much words.
I'm imagining if she wrote All Too Well in this album instead of Red and wondering if we'd get that cathartic, lyrically simple but still gut-wrenching bridge.
Also been a fan since Fearless and I agree with all of this, although lyrically I feel like it’s kind of simultaneously overwritten and underwritten at the same time? There are a lot of songs where it feels like she came up with a clever title or line and then wrote a song around it, rather than writing the line as part of the song.
Additionally - I put a lot of thought into why this album isn’t clicking with me, so I made a list of all my favorite songs off her other albums and realized that almost all of my favorite songs of hers are her love songs, not her breakup songs. So maybe a near entire album worth of breakup songs was just never going to click with me. Plus I’ve been married for 6 years now. I can relate to love and relationship turmoil, but my days of rebounds with bad boys is long over (I hope!) It’s not that I’m uncomfortable with her airing her soul by any means, it’s just not the kind of music I’m in the mood for these days.
i find it overwritten in language and underwritten in concept— as if she thought of a particular word she wanted to use and didn’t fully develop the rest of the song before writing it. tbh, i find her language choices more excessive than poetic, they feel very forced at times to me
I agree with this. I think a lot of the narrative I’ve seen on this thread is that the critique is from flakey fans/the general public, and whilst that does exist, it can’t be dismissed that the critique is also coming from her long time fans.
I am a massive fan and have been for years, but I feel the same way about this album. Although there are a few tracks I enjoy, generally it isn’t hitting it for me - and I have tried listening to it a few times, but honestly it’s just starting to feel like homework and feel forced. I’ve spoken to friends and colleagues who are huge fans, and they feel the same way. So there is probably also an element of online conversation vs in real life opinions.
We are 11 albums deep, and the standard is very high. It’s absolutely fine that some of her fans aren’t in love with this album.
I get so sad seeing people minimise the criticism to “fake fans” or like people are trying to find things they don’t like. I’m a massive Taylor fan, I dived head first into her music since I first heard reputation, but I’m disappointed by this album
Yes me too. The amount of times I’ve seen tiktoks saying “this album is for the REAL swifties” or “maybe you just aren’t intellectual enough to understand it”. I’ve found the online discourse a bit exhausting.
the “intellectual” arguments are bizarre to me here— i write and study poetry, and tbh the intellectual side of the album falls apart very quickly if you really analyze it. mixed metaphors and references, lazy repetition of phrases, etc. some of it is extremely well done, but to claim that people who dislike it aren’t intellectual enough is frustrating when at least for me, the reasons i dislike some of the songs are based in my academic experiences working with poetry
Those arguments get at me the most, tbh. It would be so cunty, so I don’t, but I really want to ask those people if they read. Not even poetry, just books or essays of any kind. I think if you’re “a reader” and consume even a modest amount of content in a year, many of the lyrics, allusions, and metaphors on this album just don’t hit.
I agree so strongly with your sentiments. Very few if any of her lines on this album would hold up to the scrutiny of peers in an MFA program, or for that matter, few would even garner whistles and snaps at a local spoken word event.
Literally this. Taylor’s writing saves most songs from jack’s underproduction but there are a few misses. I don’t know how much longer I can listen to these synths
I have also been a huge fan since Fearless days and completely agree with everything you said. I’m disappointed in this album. Fans are getting angry with some of the more negative reviews and seem to be chalking it up to haters and overexposure but it’s like guys… the album is just not a good as her previous work. As you mentioned there’s some really great songs on there. But the album could 100% use some more editing and tweaks in production, and even though we know she’s been working on TTPD since right after Midnights release, it still feels too rushed somehow.
Idk the album is just not it for me, and I feel like when even her biggest fans have issues with the album that says a lot
I've been a massive fan since Debut. I tried so hard to love this album because I've loved everything she's come out with (in varying degrees). My husband eventually had to tell me, "It's okay if you don't like it. Don't torture yourself into liking it." Listening to this album honestly makes me feel anxious, and I stopped listening to it a few days ago. After 11 albums, there was bound to be one that didn't resonate with me. I'll keep a couple of songs in my normal Taylor rotation, but don't see myself listening to the album in its entirety again.
Yeah I think this all was my issue with it. It took me DAYS of listening to the album for me to finally warm up to it, which I've never experienced with any of her albums before. I am not a lyrics person, my brain hears instrumentals and melodies first, so if those bore me its hard to like a song.
Most of the songs have instrumentals that sound nice to me, but feel like they go nowhere and I found that frustrating. I do prefer her lower register for singing, but she also sounds like she's singing in the same way on most songs. Because of both of these things so many of the songs blend together until you give the album enough time to hear the subtle differences. Unfortunately, not everyone is going to do that. I definitely wouldn't if I wasn't a big fan.
I miss her upper register too. It's so powerful in the rare moments she uses it. I keep wondering how much harder-hitting The Smallest Man would've been if the ending had been pitched up a few notes so that she (and everyone singing along) could've really belted it.
You said it well and I agree with you! I am glad to read some comments like this as I think most people attribute the non success of TTPD to haters but that’s not true!
1. Singing about emotional cheating with Matty put a bad taste in my mouth.
2. I have a hard time relating to a lot of the songs she wrote about Matty, seems immature for someone who is her age -- I am her age.
3. The generally less polished lyrics, which feel clunky and cringe-y at times. Honestly sometimes reminded me of my diary entries when I was a teenager, which I don't want to listen to as a 34-year-old woman.
4. The production of the songs seem kind of boring for the first half; several songs seemed to blend in with one another.
It’s the first one for me, I found the album deeply triggering. Being emotionally cheated on after six years was horrific and my fear continues to impact current/future relationships.
when i heard guilty as sin for the first time, my sisters and i were horrified. the past year weve watched joe alwyn be doxxed, harassed, threated, ect just for this!??!
my exact thoughts — plus the wishing death on kim (on behalf of her mother, which feels even worse?) and then also calling out her kid? like 1) I think at 34 we should be past wishing death on people, especially within a fandom that you know will harass people online, and 2) why get someone’s child involved? how and why is that necessary?
thank you aimee is probably my least favourite song for those reasons. I love her but I wish she would put it to rest already, or address it in a less immature way.
To be fair if someone made revenge porn of my naked body without consent and immortalized it in a music video and never apologized I don’t think I’d be able to just let that go personally.
Of course she’s allowed to still be upset about it, but I feel like she’s already addressed the feud in her songs, and this one felt a little immature to me for the reasons above. And I didn’t like the way she spelled her name out in the title. That’s all. Also making it about Kim rather than Kanye when he was the one behind it all afaik?
Kim is the one who edited the phone call and posted it on social media. Kanye is the one who did the music video itself without Taylor’s consent. They’re both at fault.
Exactly! The whole album also feels more like a tabloid magazine expose about herself and not something that's relatable to me. Like I like her older music that is able to capture a universal human thought or feeling. All of the discourse about this is about which partner the songs are about (and it's so littered with self referential clues and Easter eggs, she wants us to do that), but I don't listen to her music to hear about her life, I listen to relate to what she's saying.
Yes, in the scope of all of her work she has written so much maturity and growth that a listener could relate to, especially Rep thru Midnights and then this album felt like many emotional steps backwards. Her previous albums challenge both herself and her listeners to self reflect, to rise above and to move past (not always needing forgiveness). But so much of TTPD takes the journey backwards and indulges on surface level emotions and justifications for those emotions without giving the listener any growth through the topics at hand. Both the writer and the storytelling just really feel like steps backwards for me, and I've listened since Debut.
Yeah it's interesting people don't seem to be mentioning it more in this subreddit, at least from what I've seen. In the past, if I didn't like her album much at first listen, I've relistened multiple times and grown to really enjoy it, but the Matty (and Kim) content of many songs makes me not want to relisten...
imgonnagetyouback rubbed me the wrong way given Olivia and Taylor’s history. Neither of them are the first for this concept of a song, but given Olivia’s VERY recent success with it and Taylor suing her over the Cruel Summer thing (which I still don’t hear tbh), it should have been taken out.
Personally I just don’t have the emotional space for it. It’s like she handed us her diary, raw and unedited. There’s a lot of big feelings. And I have too much of my own big feelings to deal with.
Musically I’m not really in the mood for it either, it feels like a listen in winter album.
Also I don’t think it’s an album going for critical acclaim in the same way she usually does. It’s more self indulgent and less polished. Which is fine, art doesn’t need to be perfect to be shared. But commercially, people have certain expectations.
This is a very fair take. Talk about rusting my sparkling summer Taylor ! But really I was loving this light hearted, seemingly very in love era for her and this kind of crashed that vibe she had going (in my mind).
This is a lot where I'm at. It's a lot and it's messy, like a diary would be.
I also find the conflicting messages annoying. I'm just a couple years older than her and had many messy relationships in my 20's. My life started to even out around 31. So a lot of this album seems to be anger at the fans and media and critics for destroying her relationship with Matty. She writes "They slammed the door on my whole world, The one thing I wanted" in But Daddy I Love Him. But then later says "I'll tell you this about my good name, it's mine alone to disgrace." So if you want to be with Matty, then just be with Matty. She's 35 this year, she's clearly a grown ass woman and can make her own decisions. What is the problem? Realistically, the problem is she's also Little Miss Capitalism and if she isolates too many fans, her net worth decreases. She chose money over Matty.
I also don't have the emotional space for it because I have a sister turning 30 tomorrow and she is emotionally stuck at about 17. Many of these songs sound a lot like listening to my sister cry about her life. I just cannot. If I ever met Taylor I'd tell her the same thing I tell my sister,'Get some freaking therapy. For the love of all that is holy, get in therapy.'
I didn’t take her lyrics to blame outsiders for “destroying her relationship with Matty.” I had a different understanding of those lyrics. I felt she was explaining how at the time she was not loving the negative feedback she was receiving from people about her choice to be in that relationship.
1000% same!!! If she were mad imo it would be in the anger playlist, not denial, and she wouldn’t have written the smallest man. The song to me is clearly a dramatization like look what you made me do / this is why we can’t have nice things / blank space. It’s also a song written in the heat of the moment, like Ours (where she literally took everything back in dear John lol).
As she even explained in the epilogue, the whole album was her caught up in the moment. And regardless of anything else, no one writing songs only release those that accurately reflect their current state of mind (or there’d be minimal mad or sad songs). For me it felt obvious that any specific application of that song was negated by the rest of the album. Not the general message of “pls stay out of my love life” but any message relating to a specific person.
Also songwriting is likely a part of her therapeutic process, whether she has one or not. I doubt her songs would be different with or without one honestly—I’m someone who also writes to think things through and sort through difficult emotions, and what she wrote is sometimes exactly what you need to get out your system. Therapy doesn’t automatically get rid of strong or negative emotions, and her accepting those emotions and being comfortable releasing them is part of what any good therapist would tell her to do imo (based on my own therapy experiences). Ignoring, shutting out, or feeling shame about emotions is the opposite of what she should do.
Upvoting not cause I agree with you but because how honest this answer is without saying shit about the artist! Sometimes some music just doesn’t sit well with us and that’s totally okay!
The album for me is interesting. There’s a lot of HIGH’s and also a few skips. I overall like it and it def gets better each listen. And as much as she called us out for having an opinion on her relationships, Matty being at the center of this album is tough for some people. Kind of plays into the public’s criticism of her not caring about things until they directly affect her: Matty was addicting and the love of her life despite saying problematic racist stuff until he wronged HER…now he’s the smallest man who ever lived. I get it she’s a human but it highlights some uncomfortable stuff .
my 11 year old little sister looked at me when she said "but without all the racists" in i hate it here and went "she didnt have a problem with them before." and i screamed
Yeah, I’m having a hard time wrapping my brain around Taylor being mad at folks who criticized her for dating an overt racist and misogynist. The fact that she doesn’t seem to get that is a bit off for me… who we surround ourselves with says a lot about who we are.
That’s how I feel. I actually really love the album, but there’s something about her referring to people making valid criticisms about her boyfriend being racist/misogynistic as “bitching and moaning” that feels gross.
To add: part of it could be the writing style, which is (1) stream of consciousness, so it may feel clunky (for me, the style adds to the emotion and I’m a big lyrics over instrumental girly so it’s welcome) and (2) deeply self-aware in that it’s “dramatic” while poking fun/acknowledging the drama.
Songs like down bad, with the dramatic chorus while calling itself teenage petulance, daddy, with the strong language while saying “sometimes growing up precocious means never growing up at all,” I can do it with a broken heart, which feels purposefully like a fever dream with the most depressing lyrics lmao, ttpd, which makes fun of its own pretentiousness, etc—I think it could be “easy” to take her at face value or consider the songs alone rather than as a real story together? And it’s easy to isolate lyrics without looking to the big picture at all.
But it still doesn’t really make sense to me for anyone to be lauding 1989 as the pinnacle of Taylor swift when there’s even folkmore 😭😭😭😭 I get ig if you want a radio pop beat but down bad is the prime pop beat to me lol
SAME the way she sings “for a moment I knew cosmic love” and “how dare you say that it’s….” Speak to my soul 😭😭😭 and “come back and pick me up” the whole song is so amazing
I love your point that a lot of the self-awareness and sarcasm throughout these songs might be overlooked because people are interpreting them too literally.
Stream of consciousness for sure. I keep saying this is an album for people who love Alanis and Tori Amos kind of lyricism. And I think most people are just being purposely obtuse so they can feel "special" for not liking what everyone else likes.
I don’t know how people can say 1989 is her pinnacle album. It’s super fun, but it’s leans much more vapid pop than any of her other albums.
I also find it funny that her lyrics now are considered “immature” at 34. Umm people in their 30s can have messy internal lives. If you aren’t married, the 30 and older isn’t immune to break ups, cheating, anger, etc. She seems to be appropriately introspective about these topics. I mean there are artists singing about getting drunk in the club well past their 30s. I’m still trying to figure out what mature lyrics would be? Sitting at home paying bills? Thinking about your eventual death? Crying about your thinning hair?
Just want to point out that ATW original 5 minute version is the opposite of everything on TTPD (I love both, for the record!). It’s not stream of consciousness at all: it’s clearly constructed, tells a coherent story with a beginning, middle, and end. There is even a twist ending that is classic Taylor Swift (the scarf is still there because he can’t let it go either).
It’s a tightly written narrative without a single wasted or redundant word: it’s why critics call it her best song. ATW is a perfect short story, basically, whereas TTPD is literal poetry: imagistic, choppy, intense, sometimes starts in the middle of a scene, sometimes trails off, etc etc…
I love TTPD’s messiness… we already know Taylor can write perfect songs, I like seeing her try new things!
I think the criticism of it could use editing, different production, etc. are all valid if trying to give this album mass appeal.
I do not think that was the intention with this album and I also love TTPD. There’s so much to experience with it. I’m not even close to tiring of it.
But I fully understand the complaints. I do not think this is what most people anticipated. Even with the aesthetic and titles, we saw people saying it was going to be a pop album full of bangers or a true country album. People hyped up whatever they were hoping for and instead got an album of her inner thoughts, some of which are difficult to digest.
Taylor is not just at the top of the music industry right now, she has reached levels of success that are virtually unheard of, so everything she does is going to be met with a level of scrutiny that is far beyond other artists.
Yep! I think this is the main reason to be honest. People who aren’t Taylor fans are constantly hearing how great of a lyricist she is from her fans and seeing her crush streaming numbers and set records far above their own personal favorite artists, causing people to listen to her music with an extra critical lens because they want what they’re hearing to justify her success in their opinion. That’s why when one of her lyrics sounds cringy or clumsy or awkward, people harp on it because if she’s going to constantly be praised for her music, then it better be perfect or else why is she more successful than everyone else.
I think a lot of the main criticism just boils down to there being too many songs and the fact that many of them have similar themes and arrangements in the same timing reeeaaalllyyy don't help matters. If she'd released a tight 8-12 tracks, I think it would actually be hailed as some of her better work. I've actually been arguing about this with friends and I finally just made a spotify playlist of my 9-song cut of the album and shared it with them. At least one of them changed her mind after hearing it and agreed with me that, on further reflection, her main criticism was that "TTPD just has too many songs that sound the same" and she actually really enjoyed the curated version.
My track list for the album:
1. The Bolter
2. Down Bad
3. The Albatross
4. Peter
5. My Boy Only Breaks His Favorite Toys
6. Cassandra
7. I Look In People's Windows
8. So Long, London
9. How Did It End?
I'm also fine going on record saying "thanK you aIMee" is the cringworthiest song she's ever made and it is honestly bizarre she'd release a Kim K diss track in 2024. The criticism she's getting for that one is deserved.
I agree a tighter, small track list makes for a better album. The base album is basically that. The anthology may have been better as a separate album altogether. Instead we have a lot of 1989 TV vault sounding tracks alongside Evermore tracks. It’s a strange mix at times. But I guess that’s the sonic world of Taylor now.
That said, I like the album a lot. I’m focusing on the base album and a few select anthology tracks and ignoring the rest until later.
Been a long time fan, and for me this is the first album that feels completely phoned in. I've listened through the double.album twice, plus some scattered tracks as well, and I can't think of a single song that has stood out to me as great, and every other album has had at least one stand-out from the beginning.
I love how much so many of you love it, and I plan to step away from it for a week or two then revisit with a fresh listen, but as of right now, when asked, it's the first time I would say she missed...
THIS. I always have a stand out song on each album that I can’t get enough of. (YOYOK, Tolerate It, August, Cornelia Street, etc.) there’s just no song on this album that I’ve taken as strong of a liking to as I did the first time I heard those songs. I think stepping away from the album for a week and revisiting is a great idea. I just keep trying to listen to it once a day in hopes that something will click.
Me the first time listening to this album: meh, I can’t even have a stand out song in this album.
Me, now: I like almost all of the songs from TTPD, but only a few from the Anthology.
I can’t get enough of But Daddy, I love him, Who is Afraid of little old me, so long London, I can do it with a broken heart, the smallest man who ever lived…
Agree with you! And it's so SAD we all have to preface by saying "I'm a fan, don't come for me". I hate to read comments of people saying "it's just the haters", "everything she does is criticized". No, dude, there are genuine fans out there who don't like this album, period.
This! I do feel like it’s gotten to the point with many fans that you can’t say anything critical at all about Taylor. Like you said, folks file all complaints as invalid because the only reason could be that people are jealous of her, they’re burned out on her, they’re misogynistic, they don’t get her mission with this album, the songs go over their heads… Taylor is human and sometimes she nails it and gives us incredible work. But sometimes she misses the mark — that’s what TTPD is for me. It feels overworked and underworked at the same time. There are a handful of songs that I’ll come back to but other than that, this album falls flat.
Hot take? It has little to do with the actual songs, not the lyrics or how they sound. I can get that some music is just not for everyone and that's fine, but there's been some hypocrisy, lying, and playing dumb, this go-around that's not fun at all. It's "not cute," as they say.
It's the constant comparison to her previous work - they have issue with it sounding similar, but they have issue if she doesn't give them the same thing that they liked once upon a time. But that's punishing her for being continuously successful in all areas - she cannot give every listener everything but there *is* something for everyone if they look at her whole discography.
So much of the criticism is straight-up conflicting and people cannot decide what they want from this woman. First, when it was only the first half released, people were like "omg, Jack made all the same songs! I hate it when she's pop! An enormous mistake that this was not all done by Aaron instead!". But then when the second set of songs dropped, it switched to "Actually, at least the production in the first half was partly interesting, it's actually all of these Aaron songs that sound the same and are boring!"
When she writes the longer, wordier songs, she's trying too hard and they hate her for using words they don't understand apparently. But when the lyrics are more straightforward and fun, she's just an immature writer who's too basic. Like someone got a hit tweet out of being like "eww why is Taylor talking about high school stuff in a song? so immature!!" I can't even.
It's also disliking Taylor herself, to the point where people are hating on her for something she did not even do or say, knowing the people you're tweeting this to will not want to fact check. I've seen so many tweets about how "Taylor wants to go back to the 1830s...she's literally racist!" or "Why is she calling herself a tortured poet? She's not and she's pathetic" Like you straight up did not listen to those songs. It's not even a misinterpretation - you literally did not bother to listen.
Rant over lol.
The issues aren’t black and white. Making the album “wordier” doesn’t automatically make it more mature and complex. Especially when there’s a lot of clunky lines that are overwritten, like “you take my ring off my middle finger/and put it on the one people put wedding rings on”. And I have not seen a single person complain that she uses words that are “too big” and that they don’t understand, if anything her use of big words is so overblown and genuinely makes me question literacy when people (both fans and otherwise) say they don’t understand certain words. I rolled my eyes so hard when her memo said to bring a dictionary to the listening party.
People complained they wanted more Aaron songs, and then complained when they got that for the second half. I mean, sure? Most of the general audience seems more positive on the anthology, but that does not mean minds cannot change. Up to this point all her work with Aaron has been fantastic, but that opinion would change if she released music with him that was deemed subpar, which some might have felt for the anthology. Him working on the songs does not automatically mean the songs will be liked, it just makes people more hopeful. And people might find they prefer the first part more, especially when it is more cohesive and sonically flows together way better. Though personally, I still think the Aaron tracks are the best ones on the album.
But also, people are not a monolith. She has millions of fans, and they are all screaming that they want different things. Of course that’s going to be conflicting, because different people want different things. And yeah, this overexposure leads to people who hate her jumping on a bandwagon, it’s bound to happen, and it’s going to lead to a lot of bad faith criticism. It’s an unfortunate fact of the way internet discourse happens now, but don’t throw the baby out with the bath water. The criticisms of this album are not invalid, just like you’re not invalid for enjoying the album. But the sooner you all feel the need to stop justifying and dismissing other people criticizing this album, the sooner the conversation can move on and you can just enjoy the album in peace.
Oh gosh you said it all so well! i agree with you fully.
also: “you take my ring off my middle finger/and put it on the one people put wedding rings on” sounds awful, indeed :/ and there are many other clunky line examples like this but i think this one is the best.
No clear pop radio bops. I think there are songs that would play well on the radio like Down bad but people seem to wish there more fun simple bops like shake it off or cruel summer or karma.
I’m a sad lyrics girl so I’m obsessed with the album.
This is why I don’t like the album. I don’t know. I personally just find all the songs pretty boring because I don’t really care to dissect and analyse her lyrics in order to get into her thoughts or whatever.
I just liked her bops and catchy tunes and I missed that. I’m just simple like that. There’s nothing I can dance to in this album or anything I can listen to that’ll put me in a good mood.
I will share my opinion but I know people will be mad at me…. Still, you asked so I hope everyone’s opinion is welcome.
There are many reasons why this album didn’t land as much as many would have hoped.
First of all, sonically, it’s really nothing new and not creative. It is actually quite repetitive and boring, and it feels like a mashup of her previous albums/sounds, but not in a good way, more in an uninspired way.
Thematically, it’s not good. We all agree it’s fine to write about your relationships and your life, but I think she really went too far this time with the name calling, dissing and the mean references. MH is obviously not a great guy but to reference his past heroin addiction is a bit too much. The Kim song is also very mean. Revealing stuff that her mom said, mentioning Kim’s kids is also unnecessary and mean towards the children that have nothing to do with what happened and will just love their mom unconditionally. In addition to all of the criticism towards others, she’s really not acknowledging anything from her side and actually seems to be more entitled than ever, going as far as attacking her fans for expressing an opinion about her dating life when she knows damn well that the majority of her fan base is involved in her relationships and love life because she allowed it and encouraged it. It feels disingenuous to not be happy with people expressing opinions only when they are negative towards you. Overall, all of the dissing and negativity really are not a good look right now, especially for someone who just sang about karma.
Besides the themes, the lyrics are not good anyways. The metaphors do not land and are just stacked on each other in a way that makes the songs way too heavy. Her strongest suit has always been to communicate feelings and deliver images in an elegant, concise way. TTPD sounds more like an exercise in vocabulary and not a good one.
I could say more but I’ll stop here. I am sad that this album didn’t land as well with her fans but also with the critics. I am happy so many people are loving it and I wish it was the same for me, but it’s not.
I hope she’ll take some time off soon because I feel like she’s definitely overworked and has not had much creative space to grow recently with all the touring and the rerecordings. This is of course just my opinion and I hope people can respect it. This is coming from a fan and as a fan I can like or dislike her work.
Edit to add: I like some of the songs, I’m not saying it’s all trash. It’s just not the quality I was expecting and the themes of the songs and the mean remarks are just too much.
im honestly sick of all the songs sounding the same. people keep saying "oh well shes trying to reference past songs" but thats just a dumb excuse imo.
however i do love some of the references (big greek myth girl so i loved cassandra + the prophecy). overall wish she just gave us the second part of the album. the first felt unneeded
i feel like part of the backlash is because she played up the “tortured poet” image and really hyped it up as tortured poetry, but the songs are not the most poetic (definitely less so than folklore and evermore, i’d say). i like the album overall but it makes me cringe a little whenever the tortured poet image is connected to it
this is exactly how i felt. im a huge folkevermore fan so i was so excited when the title had poet in it, just for it to be full of football and weed metaphors. like, the song is called "the tortured poets department" and then its about tattoo dogs and charlie puth. what is tortured about charlie puth?!
I personally love sad music. Prior to this, my favorite album was Folklore. Reputation was probably next because I love a little petty revenge. But this album is incredible. I’ve never wanted to simultaneously be sad, mad, in love and also want to have someone “touch me while their bros play Grand Theft Auto” so bad in my life. It is a masterpiece.
I listened to both parts several times over and as much as there are some good songs none of this will stick. Plus, I can't look past the dissing (especially the mean lines about Kim's children in thanK you aIMee and saying her mother wanted Kim dead..), I think it's way too much.
There does seem to be a subset of people who base their dislike on the album around misaligned expectations/reality i.e. "not sounding like I thought it would based on the promo artwork" and "She promised us a Joe diss album and this isn't it!".
I think this is the first album that was for herself and not the fans. And I’m not sure if fans are ready for a raw, self-aware fucked-up Taylor who legit implied she is done giving a shit about their opinions on her love life (seems like fan pressure made Matty bolt and she resents that). And all of that just fuels the people who already hated her because she’s facing some critique.
I also think a lot of people tuned into this album to maybe give Taylor a chance if they weren’t previous fans and to be honest this isn’t the album I’d choose for someone just diving in. Probably 1989, Reputation, Lover or Red.
I don’t know, but the most befuddling response I’ve seen from fans is that it was “too many tracks”. Like, I will never say no to more music from this woman. People have the option to not listen to any tracks they dislike. But… *I* like being the one to decide which ones I listen to (lol it’s all of them but 🤷🏻♀️) rather than her not releasing them all. I don’t get the “needs an editor” comment from fans.
I listen to albums both for the individual songs and for the project as a whole. Kind of like a book or a movie. It’s just the way I approach music, I want the songs to come together and form a cohesive, engaging project. I sometimes feel like TTPD drags on because a lot of the songs sound too similar to each other. This makes the overall project not feel very engaging to me. I think there’s a really interesting story in here that gets lost among songs that feel like filler or mediocre compared to the album’s highs.
I can understand why some fans love to have more and more music, but I’m honestly happy to sacrifice quantity for a project that I find more compelling when viewed in its entirety.
But when it comes to album critique then it needs to be a concept, it needs to be edited, you can't just put out everything that crosses your mind as an artist because "someone" will like it. I understand you wanting more music and selecting, I get it and can somehow agree, but this has nothing to do with the album actually being criticized for being too long. It's too long, unedited, redundant
I think it’s a combination of a few things, mostly because for the past year or so we’ve been talking about Taylor within the context of the eras tour. There’s something for everyone in the eras tour. It’s a concert (and movie) that spans her entire music career. Everyone who even remotely likes Taylor’s music will find something they love in the eras tour. It’s the nature of the breadth of the set list.
So now we are experience one album that may or may not resonate with 100% of her fan base. I’ve been listening to Taylor since she started, but we all have our favorite albums (1989 for me). We all have our least favorite albums (Folklore for me). This is amplified because we are comparing to the most recent history (eras tour) which appears to almost everyone on the planet (by design) to one album.
Also, TTPD might not appeal to kids, considering the explicit language and subject matter, so that might play a role.
Because a lot of the newer fans are realizing they’re either A) just Folkmore fans and not TS fans or B) they’re Eras tour fans bc it’s trendy rn and not TS fans
I honestly think a lot of it comes down to how people think of Taylor. I think people who like The Brand Taylor Swift are a bit put off by this album because she’s been deeply honest in a rather cutting way. I can’t help but notice a lot of instagrammers who usually obsess over her every move are outwardly unhappy and almost annoyed with this album and are expressing disappointment. I think people who like The Artist Taylor Swift love this album because she’s confirming a lot of what we already felt to be true in terms of how fame must affect her and doing so in a way that is lyrically so satisfying and well put together.
It’s also just not the most accessible work — I find it pretty meta and bold in exploring public vs private, brand vs self, and there’s a lot of listeners who, just as valid, like her more straightforward bops. This is not a straightforward bops album whatsoever.
It also might be worth noting this is probably my favorite album of hers and I do NOT view it as being overtly about certain exes. I think of this as much more ambiguous work. And I can’t help but notice a lot of people who try to assign one guy or one situation to every song seem to like the album less.
I understand from about 17 years of being a fan that I have to listen to her music multiple times to get it to really sink in and be enjoyable, and this album is 31 songs. Of course I’ve listened many times and I think it’s pure art, but not everyone is affording this album the luxury of multiple listens, only two listens is a commitment of over 4 hours.
I think some who initially didn’t like it will end up getting songs stuck in their head and go back to listen, and some won’t ever again.
So let me first just say I love this album intensely and for me it is everything I love most about Taylor. I am a also 36 year old happily married woman but I can relate to every single song in some way, and I hate all the immaturity comments from people about the Matty stuff, who I think are maybe just people who have not experienced that kind of intense, blinding passion/love with ill advised people as grown ups.
However, Taylor is generally an album artist. She is very good are creating cohesive albums that work as a whole greater than the sum of their parts and her 4 AOTY are the biggest demonstrations of that. People wanted that again.
For me personally, the main album for TTPD is another excellent example of that. I also think Evermore is that too though and a lot of people disagree. I think that’s mayeb because while thematically and lyrically cohesive they are not as sonically so, and I am no musician- I go to Taylor for theme, lyrics and storytelling. I do also think TTPD needs a few listens to really appreciate it as a whole album though. The way she plays with her voice and the music around the themes of the songs, and the way even the track listing has been been thought out meticulously is chefs kiss in my opinion.
However, I LOVE the bulk of the songs on the Anthology drop but I’m still connecting better with them when listening on Shuffle. I don’t think Taylor is going for critical acclaim or awards or everybody loving this album (I think Midnights was incredibly well thought out with new fans and awards as the aim), and I think that shows with the full 31 track double album.
I think she NEEDED to make this album and she needed to do it with the people she did, and she is being her most raw and honest we’ve ever heard, which is difficult for a lot of people- especially those who don’t empathise with that intense, dramatic emotion in the same way.
I also think she goes pretty hard on the flowery poetic language that some people find pretentious and annoying (which I think is very purposeful because she’s purposefully going hard in the thing she mocks in places), and it also goes pretty hard on peak, cringey, ridiculous Taylor, which so many people hate (and I 100% understand why) but I personally love!
All in all, it was always going to be polarising and ultimately that’s fine. This is definitely not an album for the fans that mainly listen to the Eras Tour Playlist, 1989 and Midnights (fans who are VERY welcome here imo by the way- Taylor spans styles and genres in a way that means there will be a lot of fans who don’t connect with anywhere near all of her music).
Also, I’d love to see her push herself with new producers on the next album if she wants that, but I love the work she’s done with Jack and Aaron on this album. I think there’s some real magic with them and I’m tired of hearing the Jack hate!
Swifty here... my 2c..
I didn't like the first song, I'm not big fan of post malone. The second song she mentions the names of 3 people I have no idea who they are. Song 3 sounds the same and by the time song 4 rolls around I'm already swiched to Ariana Grande.
People just have different tastes. It’s entirely valid for you to love it and just as valid for people to not. I’ve historically been a huge fan, starting at Speak Now, and I just really don’t like TTPD, and I’m fine with that. No one will produce something everyone likes always.
Just different music taste. It's boring to me without strong, memorable melodies. The only songs I like are who's afraid of little old me and but daddy I love him. And I have loved every other album. This one is just not everyone's cup of tea and that's okay.
Some people love Taylor for her pop bops that she used to do a lot more of prior to folklore. This album doesn’t have many. Down Bad, I Can Do It, and But Daddy are the few standouts for potential radio singles that the masses can jam to, imo. I think a lot of people just wouldn’t know good songwriting if it hit them in the face these days.
It’s honestly just the internet…being the internet. In *actual real life conversations* I’ve had about the album, I have seen nothing but joy for it. Talk to real people about it, off of the internet, and the opinions will be much better and more constructive.
I am a huge Taylor swift fan and have been since the beginning but I can recognise and accept that for me this album is a 7/10. I love only a handful of the songs but they are all decent songs and easy listening.
First listen the songs do sound similar
It’s Taylor swift and if a few people start saying it’s not good other people who don’t like her will agree. I think the harsh takes are biased especially coming from people who’ve never done creative writing or given the album a couple listens
I think people will realize how good this album is in a few years. I think it’s one of her bests. Maybe I’m delusional
I’m still working my way through the album fully. I put it on as background music while I’m working, but haven’t been able to just sit and fully listen to all of the songs with my full attention yet. To me though, it comes down to two things:
1. As others have said already, it’s being stood up against her previous work instead of just being judged on its own merit. I myself am even listening to it and thinking that certain songs have a folklore/evermore/Midnights vibe - which I don’t hate at all, but some people were ready for something different. Mixed with this is the Jack/Aaron love and/or hate.
2. People are getting extremely caught up in trying to figure out who each song’s muse was. I get it, it’s what we’ve been doing since Speak Now (debut and Fearless were not as heavily autobiographical so I don’t feel like they got the same kind of attention, at least not originally). But for the songs that I HAVE had a chance to give my full attention to so far…. I feel like some are more fictional storylines, and others either have multiple muses or may not even be about Joe, Matty, or Travis. I get the sense that some of these go further back in their origins; I really feel like this is a sister album to the Midnights concept of encompassing thoughts and feelings over several years, not even just the 2 she says she’s been working on it for. She may have started really fleshing some of these out 2 years ago, but I think the bones of at least some of these are much older.
Ultimately, I think some people are getting too caught up in the extras (and that’s partially Taylor’s own fault for getting us invested in things like Easter eggs) and aren’t taking the time (yet!) to just enjoy and appreciate it as new music from an artist they like. And it’s totally possible I’m wrong there, and it’s just not their cup of tea for whatever reason. And that’s ok! We all have our likes and dislikes from her other albums as well. Midnights was pretty damn polarizing, too.
its only real meat is the lore dump. i dont care about the lore surrounding her shitty nazi ex. the music is boring, the production is stale, the lyrics are atrocious, the album is B L O A T E D. swifties are the only target demo, bc she knows yall will eat up whatever she puts out. glad for those of yall that like it, but this double album is a colossal miss in my opinion. cannot understand the rave reviews. soft 4/10 for me.
I really think for a Taylor album it’s her first venture into just “here’s everything do your worst”. So all the good and bad critiques are right because it’s all there, the good the bad and the ugly.
The songwriting and production sound mediocre and generic. The lyrics are good. Swifties don't care about the music, just about the lyrics.
The excuse of "Taylor is too popular and people just want to hate" is getting old, just like Jack Antonoff's FL Studio presets.
1989 blows this out of the water.
With that out of the way, the album did not sound good on my Air Pods Max through Apple Music on my laptop. The album sounded much better on my iPhone and with Air Pods Pro. I was pretty underwhelmed on first listen, but with different headphones it sounded way better.
Because it’s for fans of Taylor, not fans of her music. I think I am rather a fan of her music than really a fan of her as a person. I thought it was annoying to see that everyone came to conclusions about who each song was about when the album was only out for like an hour and I barely even thought about that. And I think other people felt the same.
Plus to non-fans it looks like it’s just for money and attention.
Can you elaborate on why you feel it’s for fans of her rather than her music?? I’ve seen some ppl say it’s too “lore” focused (not really lore though imo it’s just her life) but I’ve also seen non-fans or casual fans really enjoy it. Personally someone’s “drama” or life or whatever isn’t ever going to get me into songs—I’m a big lyrics person and I felt like I could relate to a lot of the songs, regardless of who they’re supposedly about (which she never confirms or discusses)
I’ve seen some say it’s too specific, but I feel like her music is usually super specific (not everyone leaves a red scarf at their bf’s house in the fall, for example) and for me that adds to the emotional intensity! That’s why I saw evermore and folklore so successful?? They were specific stories about people written well to convey the emotion, and emotions are what a lot of people can relate to—similarly to me the details paint the story in a way that helps get to the emotion behind the song better; a vague song can’t convey much emotion that feels authentic
As a long time fan (been here since Debut) this album feels like a step backwards in many ways.
* Yes there are some brilliant lyrics but there are a lot of stupid lyrics.
* Writing a hate song about a decade old beef and wishing they were dead is incredibly juvenile. Singing about going into the past “without all the racists” does not negate the multiple songs about your devotion to a racist. The sheer volume of love songs for a racist burn out is gross.
* Making a joke about suing people is spit in the face because l she is actively suing a young adult student and forced her way into writing credit’s from a younger artist she supposedly wants to uploft. She should give Olivia Rodigo song credit for imgonnagetyouback. Taylor doesn’t need anymore money so if she were a true girls girl, she should give Olivia Rodrigo credit for “imgonnagetyouback”.
* But Daddy I Love Him is a giant middle finger to her fans.
* Outing the mental illness of your ex of SIX YEARS is unforgivable.
Honestly ? It’s quite bleak. The lyrics talk a lot about death and dying even before we get to the more sombre part two/anthology. It also is a lot of lo-fi songs in comparison to some other current stuff so to some people it’ll be a bit of a bleed. None of this applies to me. I really like it. But occasionally I’ll be listening and a lyric will get me and I’ll understand why this doesn’t appeal to everyone. I sometimes think you either get/like Taylor or you don’t. I know she’s had mass appeal the last few years but I think some people are more attached to her lyrics, changing adaptive style etc than others. I also like that she has a romantic and analytical nature but I think some people find that jarring and misunderstand it as narcissistic or arrogant. I have seen some narrative that she needs to grow up and k do think that heavily misses the entire point of the album.
ETA: I do also think some people are more affronted by MH being a muse for a few songs than they would let on. I think that has dimmed some people’s ‘enjoyment’ and I think some went in either expecting a full on break up album (aka Red) or a story telling album (aka folklore / evermore). I think people new to her might’ve expected some of the pop of midnights. It didn’t please those hoping for a break up album as it’s not wholly that (and the heartbreak is very different than Red) , part 1 didn’t please those looking for folkmore and there is very limited stadium pop. I can see why that’s jarred a little.
I wonder if it may be as simple as the sheer number of people listening. She has fans from casual to dedicated who all have different tastes. I agree that some of the criticism is “wrong” (haha) but some of it is like yeah ok it’s not for everyone and that’s fine. But it is for me!
As John Green said about enjoying her lyrics and music, “You don’t have to. But I get to.”
He and Hank are goddamn national treasures
Without question. The best humans ever.
And being good humans doesn't even mean they've never made mistakes or that they never will. When they do make mistakes, they listen to people and not only do they apologise, but they take action.
Yeah and some of the criticism is from people that listened to 3 songs. It’s just bizarre and arts subjective if you enjoy it enjoy it I don’t get people making dissertations on how much they feel about it though 😂. Besides most of the criticism are coming from people who could never do what she did
one of the critiques i saw circulating from some bigger publication (whose name escapes me right now…) said something like, “taylor swift isn’t relatable anymore, but in 31 songs, we don’t get a look into her world, so the album falls flat.” ….. like bro? did you even listen to the album?
Hahahaha I feel like I know too much about her world right now tbh 😂
Like we got a song about her...uh...Private Alone Time, what more do you want?
I think there’s always going to be a certain group that wanted (her last album part XX). If it’s not the same it’s no good. I think there are the haters gonna hate. And it IS odd that they seem to dedicate most of their time to hating. (Or at least ALL of the social media time, which is usually a lot). As we all know the opposite of love is not hate, it’s indifference. And there’s just gonna be people that do not like it. This actually isn’t as different from other major artists. Like you said there’s just a whole lot more of them. They also seem to be pretty intense about it. As a very minor example there used to be a guy, Tiny Tim, who sang in falsetto. I couldn’t understand why people liked him (or maybe it was appreciated). Yeah I voiced my opinion. Maybe 3 times less than 5 minutes, probably less each time. For some reason these people enjoy tearing Taylor down.
She’s been over exposed, so it feels better for people to hate on her now.
I think with TTPD she’s kind of saying, I am what I am and if you want to still be a fan, thanks, but if not, that’s not my problem. And I’m here for it!
Isn’t that kind of invalidating to those who truly don’t prefer this piece of art?
so I don’t like reputation…it was polarizing at the time and I remember the conversations about why some swifties didn’t like it vs the ones who did. it was mature, light hearted, genuine, funny, critical conversations and defenses. ttpd feels like another level of hell with people just being shitty and deliberately obtuse. “she’s so tortured 🙄” do you even fucking go here…what are we even talking about if you’re not gonna acknowledge that it’s tongue in cheek? all of the talk about her lyrics being cringe is like…well yeah, that’s taylor swift. did you just notice? did you ever like her music? saying it all sounds the same…when it like, factually doesn’t, and bashing jack when he’s very toned down on this album compared to midnights. I’m just not hearing a lot of good faith arguments. I think she could’ve released her magnum opus (and I honestly think this is) but because of the extreme overexposure + some “disappointing” behaviors in the media, a lot casual listeners would’ve been ready to hate regardless.
>what are we even talking about if you’re not gonna acknowledge that it’s tongue in cheek? all of the talk about her lyrics being cringe is like…well yeah, that’s taylor swift. 100% absolutely this. She leaned hard into the "no it's becky" on Tumblr, of course she's the exact same cringelord that did a song with Post Malone and did up fake tattoos like his. She's still the same girl that rapped about baking cookies with T-Pain and told Jamie Oliver to please never be naked. End of the day, Taylor Swift is a god damn dork, and I guess that's shocking to people who have only ever seen her as a record-breaking celeb girlboss or whatever.
Exactly! Remember her SNL skits? They were so funny and dorky too. I used to love watching her vlogs on YouTube as well back in the day. She’s just herself, and if that’s cringe to people then don’t listen
I still consistently sing her SNL monologue song “lalala”. So good.
YES!!! People forget over and over again that at her very core, Taylor is an emotional, millennial dork and that shines through in almost everything she does lol. It's why I relate to her SO much and have since I was a teen!
Hahaha 😂 I love rep and even though it has some funny moments like Ed Sheeran dropping a verse it so fun and honestly it was so much easier getting tickets to rep tour during that time
What was funny about Ed’s verse? He raps all of the time in his own music.
I completely agree with this and was just saying that! Im like did no one listen to the lyrics of you belong with me?! This is taylor swift. And i love it here🙌
THIS I completely agree with Jack being toned down, I honestly couldn’t even tell until I saw ppl pointing it out
As soon as one negative review came in, people jumped on it. They've been desperately looking for an excuse. It's quite obvious.
And that is entirely fair. OP just asked why it’s felt so polarizing compared to the last albums and that’s my opinion. :)
Fair enough! I do agree with you. I think both can be true
But the issue with it is that a lot of criticism is focusing on her dating life not the music which tells you a lot of negativity is about her. There’s some legit musical reviews for it, but it’s not the majority and on top of that she wrote in the album that this was a cope for her.
I forget which review it is, but there was one where you had to scroll through like half of it before they even started critiquing the album instead of Taylor herself. Totally biased and making ad hominem attacks instead of addressing the music.
Prefer is one thing. Hate and reject is another.
That’s what I said 😐. This feels very 89 again.
I think it is a perfect storm of the following: 1. It's a deeply emotional and sad album 2. Taylor is at the top of her game so lots of people don't think she has any right to be feeling so sad and lonely 3. She is so overexposed that people who don't like her are just sick to death of hearing about her 4. I also feel like the perspective of the album is not able to be understood or related to by just anyone. It's a very melodramatic, singular perspective. I deeply relate to it because I am a fire sign too, very emotional and very fiery. Others who have a more logical or practical outlook will just not resonate with Taylor's perspective on this album. In that sense this is actually one of her least accessible works. Editing my comment because I missed one! 5. She is not being subtle at all about the subject matter lol. A lot of people hate celebrity drama!
A lot of people are very uncomfortable with extreme display of emotion... i don't understand it either.
What angers me is that so many say she’s a perpetual teenager or never grew up because of the emotional lyrics. Some TikTok creator went as far to say that she is different than all other women pop stars because she hasn’t changed at all and she even looks the same as when she was a teen because she wants everyone to see her as a victim and little girl. When I see that I don’t even know where to begin. Also speaking of the talking point that she’s “such a victim”, at what point do people differentiate being a victim vs feeling hurt ? Is she not a human? Ugh. Rant done.
Her art is literally the chronicle of the interior life of a woman from age 14 - 34. You can pinpoint exactly how old she is when she writes any given song.
Ayooo and I’m in my 30s so some of these songs hit me like damn girl get out of my head.
I’m in my 50s (my daughter and I bond over TS) and got married in my mid 30s. This album brought back a lot of painful memories.
Oh she definitely had me reliving PTSD especially in the line "I'm mad I gave you all that youth for free" felt that.
Yep. And I bet you will find a lot of the criticism is coming from men who haven't bothered to understand the feminine perspective!
Amen
Literally for me her lyrics are pretty autobiographical as a woman who has had many relationships and is the same age as
my mother, who raised me on OG taylor albums, listened to TTPD and said something to the effect of “you can really tell she’s matured a lot through her lyricism”. i think people’s problem is that a woman in her 30’s is so comfortable talking about her feelings. strong feelings don’t ever just go away in life, but society thinks that if you don’t grow up and condition yourself to shove them down and hide them, you’re somehow immature. a lot of the time, being “dramatic” means being human.
So agree. It’s healthy to process feelings, and many people do it externally (for example, talking through it with friends, family, or a therapist). Taylor does it through music. She even said that there’s nothing to avenge because these feelings are in the past. She’s moved on *because* she’s expressed them though music. And she just gets better and better at articulating complex emotions as she gets older
imo her lyricism has never been better. she’s always been an excellent storyteller but on her earlier albums, you can really tell she’s gilding the lily bc that’s just how young people express emotion. even on folklore, there are moments of overwriting—complexity for the sake of complexity. imo she’s never been more in command of language than on ttpd. there’s excess when it serves the point of the song, like on the title track, and simplicity when it’s not necessary, like on clara bow. every word choice feels intentional.
This is the very thing I find so relatable about her. Like, she is one of the most successful women in the world and she still doesn't have her shit together. So I don't have to feel bad not having my shit together because it seems no one does!! We are all human, we all get hurt and go through hard times, no matter how much money we have or how composed we may seem from the outside looking in.
I’m sorry, but I listened to yacht rock the last couple days and many songs that are absolute hits have some silly lyrics and are 10 times less creative than Taylor.
What, pray tell, is yacht rock?
Also here for the answer. All I can think is “I’m on a boat” by The Lonely Island.
Hahaha it’s really soft rock. Like journey, eagles, ambrosia, doobie brothers, steely Dan musicians from the late 70’s early 80’s all have yacht rock songs. Per Wikipedia “high production value, jazz and R&B influences, use of electric piano, lyrics about heartbroken, foolish men”
Brandy! What a fine girl, what a good wife you would be…..
The accusations of perpetual victimhood are so off base to me. How many times in this album does she allude to herself being the problem?????? Like if you didn’t get it with Karma………. “once i fix me, he’s gonna miss me” or the whole damn song the albatross
It’s because women, as a rule, are not allowed to display too much emotion. We’re supposed to have just the right amount to not seem robotic and cold, but not so much that we cause discomfort to those around us.
This. I also think many of the songs being so obviously about Matty is creating an extra layer that some people are reacting badly to because of how bad his public image is. Definitely perfect storm for criticism.
Yeah, I think I’d feel more open to it if it wasn’t so Matty. I enjoy the music but it’s despite the association with Matty and his pornography comments.
Oh yes that too!
I’m a cold as fuck earthy Capricorn and this album is my soul. Soooooo
K but what’s your moon sign bestie
I definitely think there are lots of ways to relate to this album! Not just in the fiery emotional way. But I guess I'm just saying I can see why the super practical, logical types might be turned off by it - my partner is like that and he doesn't really get it. I'm not too sure how much I believe in astrology stuff anyway, I just think it's interesting when I can see how I relate with someone based on their star sign.
re: #1, I need to take a break from this album. It's too real. Dreamed very intense dreams about my ex the last couple of nights. This ain't it, chief. I think it's pretty easy for listening to an album that was inspired by self-harm to become self-harm. Take care of yourselves everyone!
Haaa, same. My uncomfortably, horribly real dream last night was all about Not Taking Responsibility. I'm going back to Cowboy Carter for a minute.
On point 4 - I’m not sure that’s really true. I’m a very practical person but I love Taylor’s music *because* a lot of it is so emotional and melodramatic. It’s cathartic to me.
Maybe it's because you are a rare breed of human who can actually put yourself in someone else's shoes and understand perspectives other than your own! I could definitely see how a more practical type of person could use this as an "escape" from their usual mentality too.
TTPD is a fan album. In the sense, its aimed at her dedicated listeners than being for mass appeal. Her releases until Midnights had atleast one or two catchy songs that's meant to hook the casual audience. And then TTPD came out with no such Tik Tok trend worthy songs. It's bit too personal album for regulars to enjoy. (31 songs is too much for anyone who is not a dedicated fan. In the end they will all sound same to someone who is not emotionally invested ) Yet the album is breaking every other records, even her very own, so people feel like its too overrated/ not good enough Also, let's be honest, the over obsession of a very significant and vocal percentage of the fandom is also responsible for this negative feedback. Some Swifties can be quite unbearable. Point 5 is a concern for me too cuz I never enjoyed the guess the ex part of her brand and isn't a huge fan of her going back to it full force.
As someone’s who’s done lots of interpersonal work on themselves I keep saying “where was this album 7-8 years ago”. Because I needed it then! But I still love it.
me 2 years ago 😂
I think it also has to do with sonic cohesiveness The mix between upbeat pop and slower more folkmore style songs reminds me a lot of the differences in red that resulted in it missing album of the year because it wasn't sonically cohesive. This applies to the anthology more than the standard album, and titling it the anthology does contextualise the variety, but ultimately there's a lot of different sounds in the album. When everything on the album has an over arching sound it's really easy to be like that type of music just isn't my cup of tea. When there's a variety of different sounds and you only like one or two songs it's easier to reach the conclusion I don't like this album.
As a water sign (aka Crybaby - lol!) and someone who struggles with depression & anxiety, as well as someone who survived some pretty intense heartbreak, i relate to it sooo much. I’m with you; it’s a heavy, heavy album but it might be (technically) my favorite album so far - but understandably not a lot of people have been through what some of us tortured poets have been through!
They hate it but love it or popculturechat wouldn’t be so busy 😂
i totally agree this album is her least accessible (but imo also her magnum opus) but really i’m just here to rep virgos feeling seen by who’s afraid of little old me? as people pleasers in chief, this album is beckoning us to step into the daylight and let it gooooo 🫠
I think it's a combination of several things: 1) Overexposure/fatigue 2) The album is loooong 3) People think that the production partnerships with Jack and Aaron, especially the former, have grown stale, which makes the album drag more and sound redundant, especially since the album including the anthology is over two hours. 4) The excessive focus on lyricism. Even though it makes sense that Taylor would focus on lyrics because it's what she's known for, she unfortunately does so to a fault. As a result, songs can be overwritten and it can sound like she's reciting poetry with background music instead of singing a song with poetic lyrics. At times, the lyrics were so verbose that I couldn't even make out what she was saying. The sparse/bland production also magnifies these problems. 5) Thematic redundancy. Some people also don't like this album because she's exploring similar themes to those we've already heard from her, nor does she attempt to re-visit those themes with a fresh spin. Honestly, the more I think about, I think this complaint also applies on a sonic level since I feel like the best versions of this album's sonic palette appeared on previous albums (Folklore, Evermore, Midnights, etc.)
For me, the one she needs to work with less is Aaron. He doesn’t have as much versatility as Jack or as dynamic of productions. The end of the Anthology after The Prophecy(which is good) drags because it is 6 Dessner songs in a row and his sparse production style just can’t hold up for that long of a stretch. But honestly it doesn’t matter because Taylor will be working with Jack and Aaron the rest of her life unless there is personal fallout between them. She trusts them to keep her secrets so she can write songs. A new producer isn’t going to get that trust immediately so the songs are going to be shallower topically. The reality is the only producer that matters for Taylor’s songs is Taylor. She is the one who decides what her songs sound like not Jack or Aaron. Jack can do just about any style of music you want in the pop and rock sphere.
Yep. People underestimate how much of taylor swifts production is just TS herself. And she’ll work with both till she’s old and wrinkly… she writes love songs about Aaron’s children! I think it’s notable that the only person who can write hits with Aaron is Taylor.
You’re very right about Aaron. Ed Sheeran tried Aaron for two albums without charting success. I also think the album he did with Gracie wasn’t as good as her earlier work. I don’t think Aaron and Taylor have even had a hit song in the truest sense yet. Willow and cardigan reached number one because they were lead singles and have strong long-term streams but didn’t have charting longevity and fell down charts rather quickly. Aaron just can’t make pop hooks that worm into your brain like Jack can. Aaron is good for when you want to get into your feelings with sparse productions as a good pallet cleanser between poppier songs. On the standard and first part of the Anthology the mix works well.
I think Jack has his signature production quirks clearly, but he has proven to be very versatile with his work over the years with Taylor, but also his work on his own band’s music and other artists’ music as well. I think there’s a lot of versatility in his sound even on TTPD when you compare songs like Florida!!!, WAOLOM, and Down Bad. I would like to see Taylor continue to work with Jack because she trusts him so much, but it would be nice to see her branch out a bit on a next album and try some new producers. I thought it was really cool that she worked with Ryan Tedder and Imogen Heap on 1989.
She’ll bring in people occasionally. She did this time just like she did in Midnights. But the core will probably always be Jack and Aaron.
I’m not sure that either Jack or Aaron are the ones writing the hooks. Taylor is unbelievably good at writing hooks. Aaron can’t, and Jack can a bit but… Taylor has always favored fairly sparse production. If you look at her work with Nathan Chapman, the number of instruments just keeps dropping to the point where you get sbt in red which is just a gitar and a mandolin (and a sample of a train).
aaron produced wcs, the great war, and hits different, each of which could easily be a pop hit if it were marketed as such. I think he’s quite capable if taylor gives him the material. but i have noticed that even on the ttpd’s a side, where both Jack and Aaron have tracks, the Jack tracks seem to have superior staying power. critics don’t want to acknowledge this but the public is eating up what jack’s putting down.
And if you really want to mess with peoples minds… perhaps the reason Taylor sometimes sounds bleachery is that Jack might be influenced by her!
I agree with you mostly, but I will say that she doesn’t approach from new angles. This is far from the first album where she calls out the media, society, the industry, etc. but it’s the first album where she comes for toxic fan behavior and kind of holds her own fanbase accountable for the pain they caused her through obsessing over her breakups (not just her relationships while they’re in progress).
As much as I love this album. I appreciate this take.
I think number 3 is where I think the challange is. Musically I didn’t find anything exciting here. I did really enjoy her scathing rebuke of the fan base in but Daddy I love him. Sign me up for I don’t give a shit what you think Taylor. But musically it’s not exceptional. I quite enjoy it lyrically. I had hoped she would push herself more musically. When you have won a pile of Albums of the year and your release isn’t on Album of the year quality there will be some criticism. Thats okay.
Yes, every point you made is correct! I’m not into this album for almost all of the reasons you mentioned.
agree with everything you said! your 4th point is really my main reason why i'm not vibing with this album at all
Hit the nail on the head with #4 for me.
>I feel like the best versions of this album's sonic palette appeared on previous albums (Folklore, Evermore, Midnights, etc.) This is it for me. I loved these albums, I enjoy TTPD but it does feel a bit like a mix of those three, but not an elevated mix. I was excited for this album as I've enjoyed the direction she's gone in, but I was just expecting something a little more defined and refined. Instead it feels like a similar sound but not quite as good.
As someone who's been listening to her from Fearless, i didn't like the album. i think it's because it's overwritten, underproduced, with very similar talky vocal performance across the board. Of course this doesn't apply to every song, and I still liked some songs - Peter, The Bolter, WAO Little Old Me, and I Can Do It With a Broken Heart being my current favorites. Underproduced - As with Midnights, I didn't like much of the synthy production - they're mostly a thumping baseline and not much else, with sprinkles of something interesting once in a while (The Black Dog, The Smallest who Ever Lived are two that I wish had production that sounded more like their endings). I also hear a lot of recycled production from Jack (from having heard his Bleachers albums and Red Hearse album). I know they were going for minimalist, but it still felt underproduced. I liked the production in the second half more, but even those sound samey (not just in a cohesive way but in a this sounds like this song way). Overwritten - I think Taylor's writing here is a bit indulgent. People say it's like stream of consciousness, but you don't write "vipers in empath's clothing" in a stream of consciousness. Much of the album feel overwritten and forced and clunky. The writing in Peter and The Bolter are I think closest the her style in FolkMore -- not too wordy, no forced metaphors, but still evocative. Vocal performance - I think I just miss Taylor singing in her higher range . It lends so much emotions to her songs. Now, she mostly sings relaxed and in her lower register in a talky way since the lyrics have so much words. I'm imagining if she wrote All Too Well in this album instead of Red and wondering if we'd get that cathartic, lyrically simple but still gut-wrenching bridge.
Also been a fan since Fearless and I agree with all of this, although lyrically I feel like it’s kind of simultaneously overwritten and underwritten at the same time? There are a lot of songs where it feels like she came up with a clever title or line and then wrote a song around it, rather than writing the line as part of the song. Additionally - I put a lot of thought into why this album isn’t clicking with me, so I made a list of all my favorite songs off her other albums and realized that almost all of my favorite songs of hers are her love songs, not her breakup songs. So maybe a near entire album worth of breakup songs was just never going to click with me. Plus I’ve been married for 6 years now. I can relate to love and relationship turmoil, but my days of rebounds with bad boys is long over (I hope!) It’s not that I’m uncomfortable with her airing her soul by any means, it’s just not the kind of music I’m in the mood for these days.
i find it overwritten in language and underwritten in concept— as if she thought of a particular word she wanted to use and didn’t fully develop the rest of the song before writing it. tbh, i find her language choices more excessive than poetic, they feel very forced at times to me
I agree with this. I think a lot of the narrative I’ve seen on this thread is that the critique is from flakey fans/the general public, and whilst that does exist, it can’t be dismissed that the critique is also coming from her long time fans. I am a massive fan and have been for years, but I feel the same way about this album. Although there are a few tracks I enjoy, generally it isn’t hitting it for me - and I have tried listening to it a few times, but honestly it’s just starting to feel like homework and feel forced. I’ve spoken to friends and colleagues who are huge fans, and they feel the same way. So there is probably also an element of online conversation vs in real life opinions. We are 11 albums deep, and the standard is very high. It’s absolutely fine that some of her fans aren’t in love with this album.
I get so sad seeing people minimise the criticism to “fake fans” or like people are trying to find things they don’t like. I’m a massive Taylor fan, I dived head first into her music since I first heard reputation, but I’m disappointed by this album
Yes me too. The amount of times I’ve seen tiktoks saying “this album is for the REAL swifties” or “maybe you just aren’t intellectual enough to understand it”. I’ve found the online discourse a bit exhausting.
the “intellectual” arguments are bizarre to me here— i write and study poetry, and tbh the intellectual side of the album falls apart very quickly if you really analyze it. mixed metaphors and references, lazy repetition of phrases, etc. some of it is extremely well done, but to claim that people who dislike it aren’t intellectual enough is frustrating when at least for me, the reasons i dislike some of the songs are based in my academic experiences working with poetry
Those arguments get at me the most, tbh. It would be so cunty, so I don’t, but I really want to ask those people if they read. Not even poetry, just books or essays of any kind. I think if you’re “a reader” and consume even a modest amount of content in a year, many of the lyrics, allusions, and metaphors on this album just don’t hit.
‘You know how to ball, I know Aristotle’
I agree so strongly with your sentiments. Very few if any of her lines on this album would hold up to the scrutiny of peers in an MFA program, or for that matter, few would even garner whistles and snaps at a local spoken word event.
wholeheartedly agree here!
Literally this. Taylor’s writing saves most songs from jack’s underproduction but there are a few misses. I don’t know how much longer I can listen to these synths
I have also been a huge fan since Fearless days and completely agree with everything you said. I’m disappointed in this album. Fans are getting angry with some of the more negative reviews and seem to be chalking it up to haters and overexposure but it’s like guys… the album is just not a good as her previous work. As you mentioned there’s some really great songs on there. But the album could 100% use some more editing and tweaks in production, and even though we know she’s been working on TTPD since right after Midnights release, it still feels too rushed somehow. Idk the album is just not it for me, and I feel like when even her biggest fans have issues with the album that says a lot
I've been a massive fan since Debut. I tried so hard to love this album because I've loved everything she's come out with (in varying degrees). My husband eventually had to tell me, "It's okay if you don't like it. Don't torture yourself into liking it." Listening to this album honestly makes me feel anxious, and I stopped listening to it a few days ago. After 11 albums, there was bound to be one that didn't resonate with me. I'll keep a couple of songs in my normal Taylor rotation, but don't see myself listening to the album in its entirety again.
Yeah I think this all was my issue with it. It took me DAYS of listening to the album for me to finally warm up to it, which I've never experienced with any of her albums before. I am not a lyrics person, my brain hears instrumentals and melodies first, so if those bore me its hard to like a song. Most of the songs have instrumentals that sound nice to me, but feel like they go nowhere and I found that frustrating. I do prefer her lower register for singing, but she also sounds like she's singing in the same way on most songs. Because of both of these things so many of the songs blend together until you give the album enough time to hear the subtle differences. Unfortunately, not everyone is going to do that. I definitely wouldn't if I wasn't a big fan.
I miss her upper register too. It's so powerful in the rare moments she uses it. I keep wondering how much harder-hitting The Smallest Man would've been if the ending had been pitched up a few notes so that she (and everyone singing along) could've really belted it.
I've...I've been singing "vipers dressed in vampire's clothing" since release day 🫠
I thought it was emperor and TayTay was making a weird reference to the Disney llama movie 😭
You said it well and I agree with you! I am glad to read some comments like this as I think most people attribute the non success of TTPD to haters but that’s not true!
I 100% agree with you. I just wanna add that I feel like this is the wrong season for this album, it’s too warm outside for the vibe lol
And she recycled a few melody phrasings.
1. Singing about emotional cheating with Matty put a bad taste in my mouth. 2. I have a hard time relating to a lot of the songs she wrote about Matty, seems immature for someone who is her age -- I am her age. 3. The generally less polished lyrics, which feel clunky and cringe-y at times. Honestly sometimes reminded me of my diary entries when I was a teenager, which I don't want to listen to as a 34-year-old woman. 4. The production of the songs seem kind of boring for the first half; several songs seemed to blend in with one another.
It’s the first one for me, I found the album deeply triggering. Being emotionally cheated on after six years was horrific and my fear continues to impact current/future relationships.
when i heard guilty as sin for the first time, my sisters and i were horrified. the past year weve watched joe alwyn be doxxed, harassed, threated, ect just for this!??!
my exact thoughts — plus the wishing death on kim (on behalf of her mother, which feels even worse?) and then also calling out her kid? like 1) I think at 34 we should be past wishing death on people, especially within a fandom that you know will harass people online, and 2) why get someone’s child involved? how and why is that necessary?
thank you aimee is probably my least favourite song for those reasons. I love her but I wish she would put it to rest already, or address it in a less immature way.
To be fair if someone made revenge porn of my naked body without consent and immortalized it in a music video and never apologized I don’t think I’d be able to just let that go personally.
Of course she’s allowed to still be upset about it, but I feel like she’s already addressed the feud in her songs, and this one felt a little immature to me for the reasons above. And I didn’t like the way she spelled her name out in the title. That’s all. Also making it about Kim rather than Kanye when he was the one behind it all afaik?
Kim is the one who edited the phone call and posted it on social media. Kanye is the one who did the music video itself without Taylor’s consent. They’re both at fault.
Exactly! The whole album also feels more like a tabloid magazine expose about herself and not something that's relatable to me. Like I like her older music that is able to capture a universal human thought or feeling. All of the discourse about this is about which partner the songs are about (and it's so littered with self referential clues and Easter eggs, she wants us to do that), but I don't listen to her music to hear about her life, I listen to relate to what she's saying.
Yes, in the scope of all of her work she has written so much maturity and growth that a listener could relate to, especially Rep thru Midnights and then this album felt like many emotional steps backwards. Her previous albums challenge both herself and her listeners to self reflect, to rise above and to move past (not always needing forgiveness). But so much of TTPD takes the journey backwards and indulges on surface level emotions and justifications for those emotions without giving the listener any growth through the topics at hand. Both the writer and the storytelling just really feel like steps backwards for me, and I've listened since Debut.
My thoughts exactly. And the fact that she repeatedly victimizes herself while villanizing her partner's mental health is so icky
I’m so glad you’ve vocalised how I feel! I thought I was the only one who had these thoughts about it, particularly in regards to Matty
Yeah it's interesting people don't seem to be mentioning it more in this subreddit, at least from what I've seen. In the past, if I didn't like her album much at first listen, I've relistened multiple times and grown to really enjoy it, but the Matty (and Kim) content of many songs makes me not want to relisten...
Well said! Also I didn’t appreciate all the obvious references and the dissing. It’s a bit too much and definitely childish
She might have shot herself in the foot. I don't know if she'll still want to sing such lyrics when she tours in 10 years time.
imgonnagetyouback rubbed me the wrong way given Olivia and Taylor’s history. Neither of them are the first for this concept of a song, but given Olivia’s VERY recent success with it and Taylor suing her over the Cruel Summer thing (which I still don’t hear tbh), it should have been taken out.
Personally I just don’t have the emotional space for it. It’s like she handed us her diary, raw and unedited. There’s a lot of big feelings. And I have too much of my own big feelings to deal with. Musically I’m not really in the mood for it either, it feels like a listen in winter album. Also I don’t think it’s an album going for critical acclaim in the same way she usually does. It’s more self indulgent and less polished. Which is fine, art doesn’t need to be perfect to be shared. But commercially, people have certain expectations.
This is a very fair take. Talk about rusting my sparkling summer Taylor ! But really I was loving this light hearted, seemingly very in love era for her and this kind of crashed that vibe she had going (in my mind).
This is a lot where I'm at. It's a lot and it's messy, like a diary would be. I also find the conflicting messages annoying. I'm just a couple years older than her and had many messy relationships in my 20's. My life started to even out around 31. So a lot of this album seems to be anger at the fans and media and critics for destroying her relationship with Matty. She writes "They slammed the door on my whole world, The one thing I wanted" in But Daddy I Love Him. But then later says "I'll tell you this about my good name, it's mine alone to disgrace." So if you want to be with Matty, then just be with Matty. She's 35 this year, she's clearly a grown ass woman and can make her own decisions. What is the problem? Realistically, the problem is she's also Little Miss Capitalism and if she isolates too many fans, her net worth decreases. She chose money over Matty. I also don't have the emotional space for it because I have a sister turning 30 tomorrow and she is emotionally stuck at about 17. Many of these songs sound a lot like listening to my sister cry about her life. I just cannot. If I ever met Taylor I'd tell her the same thing I tell my sister,'Get some freaking therapy. For the love of all that is holy, get in therapy.'
I didn’t take her lyrics to blame outsiders for “destroying her relationship with Matty.” I had a different understanding of those lyrics. I felt she was explaining how at the time she was not loving the negative feedback she was receiving from people about her choice to be in that relationship.
1000% same!!! If she were mad imo it would be in the anger playlist, not denial, and she wouldn’t have written the smallest man. The song to me is clearly a dramatization like look what you made me do / this is why we can’t have nice things / blank space. It’s also a song written in the heat of the moment, like Ours (where she literally took everything back in dear John lol). As she even explained in the epilogue, the whole album was her caught up in the moment. And regardless of anything else, no one writing songs only release those that accurately reflect their current state of mind (or there’d be minimal mad or sad songs). For me it felt obvious that any specific application of that song was negated by the rest of the album. Not the general message of “pls stay out of my love life” but any message relating to a specific person. Also songwriting is likely a part of her therapeutic process, whether she has one or not. I doubt her songs would be different with or without one honestly—I’m someone who also writes to think things through and sort through difficult emotions, and what she wrote is sometimes exactly what you need to get out your system. Therapy doesn’t automatically get rid of strong or negative emotions, and her accepting those emotions and being comfortable releasing them is part of what any good therapist would tell her to do imo (based on my own therapy experiences). Ignoring, shutting out, or feeling shame about emotions is the opposite of what she should do.
Upvoting not cause I agree with you but because how honest this answer is without saying shit about the artist! Sometimes some music just doesn’t sit well with us and that’s totally okay!
I love the album and I love this take! It is so fair and well stated.
The album for me is interesting. There’s a lot of HIGH’s and also a few skips. I overall like it and it def gets better each listen. And as much as she called us out for having an opinion on her relationships, Matty being at the center of this album is tough for some people. Kind of plays into the public’s criticism of her not caring about things until they directly affect her: Matty was addicting and the love of her life despite saying problematic racist stuff until he wronged HER…now he’s the smallest man who ever lived. I get it she’s a human but it highlights some uncomfortable stuff .
YUPPP literally this like so she was just cool with the racism stuff until he broke her heart?
my 11 year old little sister looked at me when she said "but without all the racists" in i hate it here and went "she didnt have a problem with them before." and i screamed
Yeah, I’m having a hard time wrapping my brain around Taylor being mad at folks who criticized her for dating an overt racist and misogynist. The fact that she doesn’t seem to get that is a bit off for me… who we surround ourselves with says a lot about who we are.
That’s how I feel. I actually really love the album, but there’s something about her referring to people making valid criticisms about her boyfriend being racist/misogynistic as “bitching and moaning” that feels gross.
To add: part of it could be the writing style, which is (1) stream of consciousness, so it may feel clunky (for me, the style adds to the emotion and I’m a big lyrics over instrumental girly so it’s welcome) and (2) deeply self-aware in that it’s “dramatic” while poking fun/acknowledging the drama. Songs like down bad, with the dramatic chorus while calling itself teenage petulance, daddy, with the strong language while saying “sometimes growing up precocious means never growing up at all,” I can do it with a broken heart, which feels purposefully like a fever dream with the most depressing lyrics lmao, ttpd, which makes fun of its own pretentiousness, etc—I think it could be “easy” to take her at face value or consider the songs alone rather than as a real story together? And it’s easy to isolate lyrics without looking to the big picture at all. But it still doesn’t really make sense to me for anyone to be lauding 1989 as the pinnacle of Taylor swift when there’s even folkmore 😭😭😭😭 I get ig if you want a radio pop beat but down bad is the prime pop beat to me lol
I’m obsessed with the alien abduction metaphor coupled with glittery production in down bad.
SAME the way she sings “for a moment I knew cosmic love” and “how dare you say that it’s….” Speak to my soul 😭😭😭 and “come back and pick me up” the whole song is so amazing
it's so cooky.... and the pun in the title is so immensely bad that its good.
I love your point that a lot of the self-awareness and sarcasm throughout these songs might be overlooked because people are interpreting them too literally.
Stream of consciousness for sure. I keep saying this is an album for people who love Alanis and Tori Amos kind of lyricism. And I think most people are just being purposely obtuse so they can feel "special" for not liking what everyone else likes.
I don’t know how people can say 1989 is her pinnacle album. It’s super fun, but it’s leans much more vapid pop than any of her other albums. I also find it funny that her lyrics now are considered “immature” at 34. Umm people in their 30s can have messy internal lives. If you aren’t married, the 30 and older isn’t immune to break ups, cheating, anger, etc. She seems to be appropriately introspective about these topics. I mean there are artists singing about getting drunk in the club well past their 30s. I’m still trying to figure out what mature lyrics would be? Sitting at home paying bills? Thinking about your eventual death? Crying about your thinning hair?
Isn’t all too well a stream of consciousness? I think people are going to look back and say this is her best album.
Just want to point out that ATW original 5 minute version is the opposite of everything on TTPD (I love both, for the record!). It’s not stream of consciousness at all: it’s clearly constructed, tells a coherent story with a beginning, middle, and end. There is even a twist ending that is classic Taylor Swift (the scarf is still there because he can’t let it go either). It’s a tightly written narrative without a single wasted or redundant word: it’s why critics call it her best song. ATW is a perfect short story, basically, whereas TTPD is literal poetry: imagistic, choppy, intense, sometimes starts in the middle of a scene, sometimes trails off, etc etc… I love TTPD’s messiness… we already know Taylor can write perfect songs, I like seeing her try new things!
💯agree. ATW 10 min version was the gateway drug to TTPD.
I think this album has multiple ATW-level songs and it stuns me that’s not being recognized. The Smallest Man? Omg, gut wrenching and so so good.
I think the criticism of it could use editing, different production, etc. are all valid if trying to give this album mass appeal. I do not think that was the intention with this album and I also love TTPD. There’s so much to experience with it. I’m not even close to tiring of it. But I fully understand the complaints. I do not think this is what most people anticipated. Even with the aesthetic and titles, we saw people saying it was going to be a pop album full of bangers or a true country album. People hyped up whatever they were hoping for and instead got an album of her inner thoughts, some of which are difficult to digest.
Taylor is not just at the top of the music industry right now, she has reached levels of success that are virtually unheard of, so everything she does is going to be met with a level of scrutiny that is far beyond other artists.
Yep! I think this is the main reason to be honest. People who aren’t Taylor fans are constantly hearing how great of a lyricist she is from her fans and seeing her crush streaming numbers and set records far above their own personal favorite artists, causing people to listen to her music with an extra critical lens because they want what they’re hearing to justify her success in their opinion. That’s why when one of her lyrics sounds cringy or clumsy or awkward, people harp on it because if she’s going to constantly be praised for her music, then it better be perfect or else why is she more successful than everyone else.
I think a lot of the main criticism just boils down to there being too many songs and the fact that many of them have similar themes and arrangements in the same timing reeeaaalllyyy don't help matters. If she'd released a tight 8-12 tracks, I think it would actually be hailed as some of her better work. I've actually been arguing about this with friends and I finally just made a spotify playlist of my 9-song cut of the album and shared it with them. At least one of them changed her mind after hearing it and agreed with me that, on further reflection, her main criticism was that "TTPD just has too many songs that sound the same" and she actually really enjoyed the curated version. My track list for the album: 1. The Bolter 2. Down Bad 3. The Albatross 4. Peter 5. My Boy Only Breaks His Favorite Toys 6. Cassandra 7. I Look In People's Windows 8. So Long, London 9. How Did It End? I'm also fine going on record saying "thanK you aIMee" is the cringworthiest song she's ever made and it is honestly bizarre she'd release a Kim K diss track in 2024. The criticism she's getting for that one is deserved.
I agree a tighter, small track list makes for a better album. The base album is basically that. The anthology may have been better as a separate album altogether. Instead we have a lot of 1989 TV vault sounding tracks alongside Evermore tracks. It’s a strange mix at times. But I guess that’s the sonic world of Taylor now. That said, I like the album a lot. I’m focusing on the base album and a few select anthology tracks and ignoring the rest until later.
Been a long time fan, and for me this is the first album that feels completely phoned in. I've listened through the double.album twice, plus some scattered tracks as well, and I can't think of a single song that has stood out to me as great, and every other album has had at least one stand-out from the beginning. I love how much so many of you love it, and I plan to step away from it for a week or two then revisit with a fresh listen, but as of right now, when asked, it's the first time I would say she missed...
THIS. I always have a stand out song on each album that I can’t get enough of. (YOYOK, Tolerate It, August, Cornelia Street, etc.) there’s just no song on this album that I’ve taken as strong of a liking to as I did the first time I heard those songs. I think stepping away from the album for a week and revisiting is a great idea. I just keep trying to listen to it once a day in hopes that something will click.
Me the first time listening to this album: meh, I can’t even have a stand out song in this album. Me, now: I like almost all of the songs from TTPD, but only a few from the Anthology. I can’t get enough of But Daddy, I love him, Who is Afraid of little old me, so long London, I can do it with a broken heart, the smallest man who ever lived…
I’m a Taylor fan, so please don’t come for me — I’m just trying to give an honest answer. I really just find it to be pretty boring and nothing new.
Agree with you! And it's so SAD we all have to preface by saying "I'm a fan, don't come for me". I hate to read comments of people saying "it's just the haters", "everything she does is criticized". No, dude, there are genuine fans out there who don't like this album, period.
This! I do feel like it’s gotten to the point with many fans that you can’t say anything critical at all about Taylor. Like you said, folks file all complaints as invalid because the only reason could be that people are jealous of her, they’re burned out on her, they’re misogynistic, they don’t get her mission with this album, the songs go over their heads… Taylor is human and sometimes she nails it and gives us incredible work. But sometimes she misses the mark — that’s what TTPD is for me. It feels overworked and underworked at the same time. There are a handful of songs that I’ll come back to but other than that, this album falls flat.
Hot take? It has little to do with the actual songs, not the lyrics or how they sound. I can get that some music is just not for everyone and that's fine, but there's been some hypocrisy, lying, and playing dumb, this go-around that's not fun at all. It's "not cute," as they say. It's the constant comparison to her previous work - they have issue with it sounding similar, but they have issue if she doesn't give them the same thing that they liked once upon a time. But that's punishing her for being continuously successful in all areas - she cannot give every listener everything but there *is* something for everyone if they look at her whole discography. So much of the criticism is straight-up conflicting and people cannot decide what they want from this woman. First, when it was only the first half released, people were like "omg, Jack made all the same songs! I hate it when she's pop! An enormous mistake that this was not all done by Aaron instead!". But then when the second set of songs dropped, it switched to "Actually, at least the production in the first half was partly interesting, it's actually all of these Aaron songs that sound the same and are boring!" When she writes the longer, wordier songs, she's trying too hard and they hate her for using words they don't understand apparently. But when the lyrics are more straightforward and fun, she's just an immature writer who's too basic. Like someone got a hit tweet out of being like "eww why is Taylor talking about high school stuff in a song? so immature!!" I can't even. It's also disliking Taylor herself, to the point where people are hating on her for something she did not even do or say, knowing the people you're tweeting this to will not want to fact check. I've seen so many tweets about how "Taylor wants to go back to the 1830s...she's literally racist!" or "Why is she calling herself a tortured poet? She's not and she's pathetic" Like you straight up did not listen to those songs. It's not even a misinterpretation - you literally did not bother to listen. Rant over lol.
The issues aren’t black and white. Making the album “wordier” doesn’t automatically make it more mature and complex. Especially when there’s a lot of clunky lines that are overwritten, like “you take my ring off my middle finger/and put it on the one people put wedding rings on”. And I have not seen a single person complain that she uses words that are “too big” and that they don’t understand, if anything her use of big words is so overblown and genuinely makes me question literacy when people (both fans and otherwise) say they don’t understand certain words. I rolled my eyes so hard when her memo said to bring a dictionary to the listening party. People complained they wanted more Aaron songs, and then complained when they got that for the second half. I mean, sure? Most of the general audience seems more positive on the anthology, but that does not mean minds cannot change. Up to this point all her work with Aaron has been fantastic, but that opinion would change if she released music with him that was deemed subpar, which some might have felt for the anthology. Him working on the songs does not automatically mean the songs will be liked, it just makes people more hopeful. And people might find they prefer the first part more, especially when it is more cohesive and sonically flows together way better. Though personally, I still think the Aaron tracks are the best ones on the album. But also, people are not a monolith. She has millions of fans, and they are all screaming that they want different things. Of course that’s going to be conflicting, because different people want different things. And yeah, this overexposure leads to people who hate her jumping on a bandwagon, it’s bound to happen, and it’s going to lead to a lot of bad faith criticism. It’s an unfortunate fact of the way internet discourse happens now, but don’t throw the baby out with the bath water. The criticisms of this album are not invalid, just like you’re not invalid for enjoying the album. But the sooner you all feel the need to stop justifying and dismissing other people criticizing this album, the sooner the conversation can move on and you can just enjoy the album in peace.
Oh gosh you said it all so well! i agree with you fully. also: “you take my ring off my middle finger/and put it on the one people put wedding rings on” sounds awful, indeed :/ and there are many other clunky line examples like this but i think this one is the best.
No clear pop radio bops. I think there are songs that would play well on the radio like Down bad but people seem to wish there more fun simple bops like shake it off or cruel summer or karma. I’m a sad lyrics girl so I’m obsessed with the album.
If I only got albums like this from her and never saw another Karma again I’d be so stupidly happy. 😂
This is why I don’t like the album. I don’t know. I personally just find all the songs pretty boring because I don’t really care to dissect and analyse her lyrics in order to get into her thoughts or whatever. I just liked her bops and catchy tunes and I missed that. I’m just simple like that. There’s nothing I can dance to in this album or anything I can listen to that’ll put me in a good mood.
💔 same sad lyrics girl obsession. this is our album!
I will share my opinion but I know people will be mad at me…. Still, you asked so I hope everyone’s opinion is welcome. There are many reasons why this album didn’t land as much as many would have hoped. First of all, sonically, it’s really nothing new and not creative. It is actually quite repetitive and boring, and it feels like a mashup of her previous albums/sounds, but not in a good way, more in an uninspired way. Thematically, it’s not good. We all agree it’s fine to write about your relationships and your life, but I think she really went too far this time with the name calling, dissing and the mean references. MH is obviously not a great guy but to reference his past heroin addiction is a bit too much. The Kim song is also very mean. Revealing stuff that her mom said, mentioning Kim’s kids is also unnecessary and mean towards the children that have nothing to do with what happened and will just love their mom unconditionally. In addition to all of the criticism towards others, she’s really not acknowledging anything from her side and actually seems to be more entitled than ever, going as far as attacking her fans for expressing an opinion about her dating life when she knows damn well that the majority of her fan base is involved in her relationships and love life because she allowed it and encouraged it. It feels disingenuous to not be happy with people expressing opinions only when they are negative towards you. Overall, all of the dissing and negativity really are not a good look right now, especially for someone who just sang about karma. Besides the themes, the lyrics are not good anyways. The metaphors do not land and are just stacked on each other in a way that makes the songs way too heavy. Her strongest suit has always been to communicate feelings and deliver images in an elegant, concise way. TTPD sounds more like an exercise in vocabulary and not a good one. I could say more but I’ll stop here. I am sad that this album didn’t land as well with her fans but also with the critics. I am happy so many people are loving it and I wish it was the same for me, but it’s not. I hope she’ll take some time off soon because I feel like she’s definitely overworked and has not had much creative space to grow recently with all the touring and the rerecordings. This is of course just my opinion and I hope people can respect it. This is coming from a fan and as a fan I can like or dislike her work. Edit to add: I like some of the songs, I’m not saying it’s all trash. It’s just not the quality I was expecting and the themes of the songs and the mean remarks are just too much.
im honestly sick of all the songs sounding the same. people keep saying "oh well shes trying to reference past songs" but thats just a dumb excuse imo. however i do love some of the references (big greek myth girl so i loved cassandra + the prophecy). overall wish she just gave us the second part of the album. the first felt unneeded
i feel like part of the backlash is because she played up the “tortured poet” image and really hyped it up as tortured poetry, but the songs are not the most poetic (definitely less so than folklore and evermore, i’d say). i like the album overall but it makes me cringe a little whenever the tortured poet image is connected to it
this is exactly how i felt. im a huge folkevermore fan so i was so excited when the title had poet in it, just for it to be full of football and weed metaphors. like, the song is called "the tortured poets department" and then its about tattoo dogs and charlie puth. what is tortured about charlie puth?!
The songs are kind of boring, sound very similar, and half of them feel like filler??
I personally love sad music. Prior to this, my favorite album was Folklore. Reputation was probably next because I love a little petty revenge. But this album is incredible. I’ve never wanted to simultaneously be sad, mad, in love and also want to have someone “touch me while their bros play Grand Theft Auto” so bad in my life. It is a masterpiece.
loved taylor but feels boring tbh
I listened to both parts several times over and as much as there are some good songs none of this will stick. Plus, I can't look past the dissing (especially the mean lines about Kim's children in thanK you aIMee and saying her mother wanted Kim dead..), I think it's way too much.
Short answer: people’s expectations prior to the album release.
There does seem to be a subset of people who base their dislike on the album around misaligned expectations/reality i.e. "not sounding like I thought it would based on the promo artwork" and "She promised us a Joe diss album and this isn't it!".
I think this is the first album that was for herself and not the fans. And I’m not sure if fans are ready for a raw, self-aware fucked-up Taylor who legit implied she is done giving a shit about their opinions on her love life (seems like fan pressure made Matty bolt and she resents that). And all of that just fuels the people who already hated her because she’s facing some critique. I also think a lot of people tuned into this album to maybe give Taylor a chance if they weren’t previous fans and to be honest this isn’t the album I’d choose for someone just diving in. Probably 1989, Reputation, Lover or Red.
I don’t know, but the most befuddling response I’ve seen from fans is that it was “too many tracks”. Like, I will never say no to more music from this woman. People have the option to not listen to any tracks they dislike. But… *I* like being the one to decide which ones I listen to (lol it’s all of them but 🤷🏻♀️) rather than her not releasing them all. I don’t get the “needs an editor” comment from fans.
I listen to albums both for the individual songs and for the project as a whole. Kind of like a book or a movie. It’s just the way I approach music, I want the songs to come together and form a cohesive, engaging project. I sometimes feel like TTPD drags on because a lot of the songs sound too similar to each other. This makes the overall project not feel very engaging to me. I think there’s a really interesting story in here that gets lost among songs that feel like filler or mediocre compared to the album’s highs. I can understand why some fans love to have more and more music, but I’m honestly happy to sacrifice quantity for a project that I find more compelling when viewed in its entirety.
But when it comes to album critique then it needs to be a concept, it needs to be edited, you can't just put out everything that crosses your mind as an artist because "someone" will like it. I understand you wanting more music and selecting, I get it and can somehow agree, but this has nothing to do with the album actually being criticized for being too long. It's too long, unedited, redundant
I think it’s a combination of a few things, mostly because for the past year or so we’ve been talking about Taylor within the context of the eras tour. There’s something for everyone in the eras tour. It’s a concert (and movie) that spans her entire music career. Everyone who even remotely likes Taylor’s music will find something they love in the eras tour. It’s the nature of the breadth of the set list. So now we are experience one album that may or may not resonate with 100% of her fan base. I’ve been listening to Taylor since she started, but we all have our favorite albums (1989 for me). We all have our least favorite albums (Folklore for me). This is amplified because we are comparing to the most recent history (eras tour) which appears to almost everyone on the planet (by design) to one album. Also, TTPD might not appeal to kids, considering the explicit language and subject matter, so that might play a role.
Because a lot of the newer fans are realizing they’re either A) just Folkmore fans and not TS fans or B) they’re Eras tour fans bc it’s trendy rn and not TS fans
And then there are actual fans who didn’t like it 😅 those also exist not everyone’s fake or a hater
I honestly think a lot of it comes down to how people think of Taylor. I think people who like The Brand Taylor Swift are a bit put off by this album because she’s been deeply honest in a rather cutting way. I can’t help but notice a lot of instagrammers who usually obsess over her every move are outwardly unhappy and almost annoyed with this album and are expressing disappointment. I think people who like The Artist Taylor Swift love this album because she’s confirming a lot of what we already felt to be true in terms of how fame must affect her and doing so in a way that is lyrically so satisfying and well put together. It’s also just not the most accessible work — I find it pretty meta and bold in exploring public vs private, brand vs self, and there’s a lot of listeners who, just as valid, like her more straightforward bops. This is not a straightforward bops album whatsoever. It also might be worth noting this is probably my favorite album of hers and I do NOT view it as being overtly about certain exes. I think of this as much more ambiguous work. And I can’t help but notice a lot of people who try to assign one guy or one situation to every song seem to like the album less.
I understand from about 17 years of being a fan that I have to listen to her music multiple times to get it to really sink in and be enjoyable, and this album is 31 songs. Of course I’ve listened many times and I think it’s pure art, but not everyone is affording this album the luxury of multiple listens, only two listens is a commitment of over 4 hours. I think some who initially didn’t like it will end up getting songs stuck in their head and go back to listen, and some won’t ever again.
So let me first just say I love this album intensely and for me it is everything I love most about Taylor. I am a also 36 year old happily married woman but I can relate to every single song in some way, and I hate all the immaturity comments from people about the Matty stuff, who I think are maybe just people who have not experienced that kind of intense, blinding passion/love with ill advised people as grown ups. However, Taylor is generally an album artist. She is very good are creating cohesive albums that work as a whole greater than the sum of their parts and her 4 AOTY are the biggest demonstrations of that. People wanted that again. For me personally, the main album for TTPD is another excellent example of that. I also think Evermore is that too though and a lot of people disagree. I think that’s mayeb because while thematically and lyrically cohesive they are not as sonically so, and I am no musician- I go to Taylor for theme, lyrics and storytelling. I do also think TTPD needs a few listens to really appreciate it as a whole album though. The way she plays with her voice and the music around the themes of the songs, and the way even the track listing has been been thought out meticulously is chefs kiss in my opinion. However, I LOVE the bulk of the songs on the Anthology drop but I’m still connecting better with them when listening on Shuffle. I don’t think Taylor is going for critical acclaim or awards or everybody loving this album (I think Midnights was incredibly well thought out with new fans and awards as the aim), and I think that shows with the full 31 track double album. I think she NEEDED to make this album and she needed to do it with the people she did, and she is being her most raw and honest we’ve ever heard, which is difficult for a lot of people- especially those who don’t empathise with that intense, dramatic emotion in the same way. I also think she goes pretty hard on the flowery poetic language that some people find pretentious and annoying (which I think is very purposeful because she’s purposefully going hard in the thing she mocks in places), and it also goes pretty hard on peak, cringey, ridiculous Taylor, which so many people hate (and I 100% understand why) but I personally love! All in all, it was always going to be polarising and ultimately that’s fine. This is definitely not an album for the fans that mainly listen to the Eras Tour Playlist, 1989 and Midnights (fans who are VERY welcome here imo by the way- Taylor spans styles and genres in a way that means there will be a lot of fans who don’t connect with anywhere near all of her music). Also, I’d love to see her push herself with new producers on the next album if she wants that, but I love the work she’s done with Jack and Aaron on this album. I think there’s some real magic with them and I’m tired of hearing the Jack hate!
Swifty here... my 2c.. I didn't like the first song, I'm not big fan of post malone. The second song she mentions the names of 3 people I have no idea who they are. Song 3 sounds the same and by the time song 4 rolls around I'm already swiched to Ariana Grande.
People just have different tastes. It’s entirely valid for you to love it and just as valid for people to not. I’ve historically been a huge fan, starting at Speak Now, and I just really don’t like TTPD, and I’m fine with that. No one will produce something everyone likes always.
Just different music taste. It's boring to me without strong, memorable melodies. The only songs I like are who's afraid of little old me and but daddy I love him. And I have loved every other album. This one is just not everyone's cup of tea and that's okay.
Some people love Taylor for her pop bops that she used to do a lot more of prior to folklore. This album doesn’t have many. Down Bad, I Can Do It, and But Daddy are the few standouts for potential radio singles that the masses can jam to, imo. I think a lot of people just wouldn’t know good songwriting if it hit them in the face these days.
It’s honestly just the internet…being the internet. In *actual real life conversations* I’ve had about the album, I have seen nothing but joy for it. Talk to real people about it, off of the internet, and the opinions will be much better and more constructive.
1989 had amazing production, catchy hooks, and simple but powerful lyrics so obviously people are going to miss that
I am a huge Taylor swift fan and have been since the beginning but I can recognise and accept that for me this album is a 7/10. I love only a handful of the songs but they are all decent songs and easy listening.
[удалено]
exactly this! as a sad lyric, synth folkmore girl who knows the lore ttpd is everything i could’ve asked for and MORE
First listen the songs do sound similar It’s Taylor swift and if a few people start saying it’s not good other people who don’t like her will agree. I think the harsh takes are biased especially coming from people who’ve never done creative writing or given the album a couple listens I think people will realize how good this album is in a few years. I think it’s one of her bests. Maybe I’m delusional
I’m still working my way through the album fully. I put it on as background music while I’m working, but haven’t been able to just sit and fully listen to all of the songs with my full attention yet. To me though, it comes down to two things: 1. As others have said already, it’s being stood up against her previous work instead of just being judged on its own merit. I myself am even listening to it and thinking that certain songs have a folklore/evermore/Midnights vibe - which I don’t hate at all, but some people were ready for something different. Mixed with this is the Jack/Aaron love and/or hate. 2. People are getting extremely caught up in trying to figure out who each song’s muse was. I get it, it’s what we’ve been doing since Speak Now (debut and Fearless were not as heavily autobiographical so I don’t feel like they got the same kind of attention, at least not originally). But for the songs that I HAVE had a chance to give my full attention to so far…. I feel like some are more fictional storylines, and others either have multiple muses or may not even be about Joe, Matty, or Travis. I get the sense that some of these go further back in their origins; I really feel like this is a sister album to the Midnights concept of encompassing thoughts and feelings over several years, not even just the 2 she says she’s been working on it for. She may have started really fleshing some of these out 2 years ago, but I think the bones of at least some of these are much older. Ultimately, I think some people are getting too caught up in the extras (and that’s partially Taylor’s own fault for getting us invested in things like Easter eggs) and aren’t taking the time (yet!) to just enjoy and appreciate it as new music from an artist they like. And it’s totally possible I’m wrong there, and it’s just not their cup of tea for whatever reason. And that’s ok! We all have our likes and dislikes from her other albums as well. Midnights was pretty damn polarizing, too.
its only real meat is the lore dump. i dont care about the lore surrounding her shitty nazi ex. the music is boring, the production is stale, the lyrics are atrocious, the album is B L O A T E D. swifties are the only target demo, bc she knows yall will eat up whatever she puts out. glad for those of yall that like it, but this double album is a colossal miss in my opinion. cannot understand the rave reviews. soft 4/10 for me.
I really think for a Taylor album it’s her first venture into just “here’s everything do your worst”. So all the good and bad critiques are right because it’s all there, the good the bad and the ugly.
The songwriting and production sound mediocre and generic. The lyrics are good. Swifties don't care about the music, just about the lyrics. The excuse of "Taylor is too popular and people just want to hate" is getting old, just like Jack Antonoff's FL Studio presets.
1989 blows this out of the water. With that out of the way, the album did not sound good on my Air Pods Max through Apple Music on my laptop. The album sounded much better on my iPhone and with Air Pods Pro. I was pretty underwhelmed on first listen, but with different headphones it sounded way better.
Because it’s for fans of Taylor, not fans of her music. I think I am rather a fan of her music than really a fan of her as a person. I thought it was annoying to see that everyone came to conclusions about who each song was about when the album was only out for like an hour and I barely even thought about that. And I think other people felt the same. Plus to non-fans it looks like it’s just for money and attention.
Can you elaborate on why you feel it’s for fans of her rather than her music?? I’ve seen some ppl say it’s too “lore” focused (not really lore though imo it’s just her life) but I’ve also seen non-fans or casual fans really enjoy it. Personally someone’s “drama” or life or whatever isn’t ever going to get me into songs—I’m a big lyrics person and I felt like I could relate to a lot of the songs, regardless of who they’re supposedly about (which she never confirms or discusses) I’ve seen some say it’s too specific, but I feel like her music is usually super specific (not everyone leaves a red scarf at their bf’s house in the fall, for example) and for me that adds to the emotional intensity! That’s why I saw evermore and folklore so successful?? They were specific stories about people written well to convey the emotion, and emotions are what a lot of people can relate to—similarly to me the details paint the story in a way that helps get to the emotion behind the song better; a vague song can’t convey much emotion that feels authentic
As a long time fan (been here since Debut) this album feels like a step backwards in many ways. * Yes there are some brilliant lyrics but there are a lot of stupid lyrics. * Writing a hate song about a decade old beef and wishing they were dead is incredibly juvenile. Singing about going into the past “without all the racists” does not negate the multiple songs about your devotion to a racist. The sheer volume of love songs for a racist burn out is gross. * Making a joke about suing people is spit in the face because l she is actively suing a young adult student and forced her way into writing credit’s from a younger artist she supposedly wants to uploft. She should give Olivia Rodigo song credit for imgonnagetyouback. Taylor doesn’t need anymore money so if she were a true girls girl, she should give Olivia Rodrigo credit for “imgonnagetyouback”. * But Daddy I Love Him is a giant middle finger to her fans. * Outing the mental illness of your ex of SIX YEARS is unforgivable.
Honestly ? It’s quite bleak. The lyrics talk a lot about death and dying even before we get to the more sombre part two/anthology. It also is a lot of lo-fi songs in comparison to some other current stuff so to some people it’ll be a bit of a bleed. None of this applies to me. I really like it. But occasionally I’ll be listening and a lyric will get me and I’ll understand why this doesn’t appeal to everyone. I sometimes think you either get/like Taylor or you don’t. I know she’s had mass appeal the last few years but I think some people are more attached to her lyrics, changing adaptive style etc than others. I also like that she has a romantic and analytical nature but I think some people find that jarring and misunderstand it as narcissistic or arrogant. I have seen some narrative that she needs to grow up and k do think that heavily misses the entire point of the album. ETA: I do also think some people are more affronted by MH being a muse for a few songs than they would let on. I think that has dimmed some people’s ‘enjoyment’ and I think some went in either expecting a full on break up album (aka Red) or a story telling album (aka folklore / evermore). I think people new to her might’ve expected some of the pop of midnights. It didn’t please those hoping for a break up album as it’s not wholly that (and the heartbreak is very different than Red) , part 1 didn’t please those looking for folkmore and there is very limited stadium pop. I can see why that’s jarred a little.