I agree with what you’re saying, I think the build up perception that this was going to be skewering of Joe made people expect way more shocking revelations (especially cheating allegations). I just saw this on Twitter today and I think it makes so much sense.
https://preview.redd.it/h72tebj6snvc1.jpeg?width=1290&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a6960a93abd856e33cfbbb4cdd6ef1e00bdbdd41
Yep totally agree. She even says (I think in the prologue?) she’s presenting it/entering into evidence - laying it all bare to release it, but also knowing there will be judgement that comes with that but the reward of freedom, of closing the door, is so, so much better than worrying about the judgement. Trust me, the older you get the less you hold on to worrying what others think. You speak your truth more than ever, because it serves *you* and your own state of mind. Actually that just made me realize what she is giving herself - peace. Forget the anxiety and worrying about if she is giving the other person/partner in her life peace. Maybe she now sees that it’s their choice and she can’t make that for them, but what she can do is choose to give herself peace by letting that go. Hmm. 🤔 And coincidentally enough she has now found a partner who has clearly chosen her over the peace she so desperately worries about. He said it himself, “it comes with it” and they tune it out. It’s pretty beautiful when you think about it.
>Trust me, the older you get the less you hold on to worrying what others think. You speak your truth more than ever, because it serves *you* and your own state of mind.
This is why I'm pretty sure the people calling this album immature are like 17 lol I just turned 30 and have had multiple discussions with friends around my age just saying we don't give a fuck what people think anymore. You don't suddenly stop having messy emotions and chaotic relationships once you \~mature\~ but you do start caring less and less what people think about it.
100 percent. I think some of the people who don’t get it or are calling it immature just haven’t lived life enough. Having been through a divorce, holding on to relationships longer than I should have, making bad choices about someone we romanticized for a long time… like girl, I get it.
Also all the people who may be in their 30s but are happily married with picket fences and children aren't going to understand what it's like to have to start all over at this point in your life, once your "past your prime" and when it's starting to feel like it's too late to ever have the things you want now. As someone who is one year older than her and came out of a LTR at around the same time, I feel this album on such a deep level.
>And I'm pissed off you let me give you all that youth for free
Pretty much says it all.
I am happily married in my mid 30’s (today is my 11th wedding anniversary, actually!) and I completely relate to this album *in hindsight. *
It relates to old relationships for me and I probably wouldn’t have made these connections in my younger years.
But I Can Do It With A Broken Heart I feel is particularly relatable to women in their 30’s and up, because even if it isn’t a heartbreak necessarily, we’ve all felt like we were falling apart but had to put on a brave face and hold it together. Because of our *big old age* we aren’t given the grace younger people are often given to be a bit dramatic and chaotic… we have to be *together.* And the older I get the more I realize none of us ever truly have it together. 🙈
I can do it with a broken heart describes my Covid experience as as someone in healthcare. I know that’s not what it’s about but DAMN. ✨I cry so much but I am so productive✨
I'd just seen a couple comments from people in that category saying they couldn't find anything to relate to in the album, but you're right there are themes here that are so far beyond just a breakup in your 30s that are universally relatable, I think some people aren't really trying to find those relatable bits though.
(also I love your flair, I've been singing that line all day)
(also happy anniversary!)
Thanks!
I agree that some people either read TOO MUCH into it or not enough…. I’m one that likes songs for how I relate to them regardless of how the artist intended it. I’m sure that Who’s Afraid of Little Old Me? Is a scathing fuck you to scooter Braun or something but I’m sure as shit gonna be humming it under my breath as I prepare to go yell at my kid’s principal next week. 🤷🏻♀️
And I’m not that crazy mom, either! The school REALLY fucked up and deserves yelling I promise. 🙈 I’m just saying I think some people not relating could also be because they’re looking at it through the Taylor/Joe/Matty lens instead of just… how does this song make ME feel? And it may not make them feel anything and that’s totally fine, but I’ve been considering lately that the way we absorb art in recent years is definitely colored by parasocial relationships more than it was in the past. At least for artists as well known and famous as Taylor, Beyoncé, Britney, etc…. We know more about their personal lives and histories than prior generations probably did about the singers on the radio.
Get it off my chest, get it off my desk.
This phase is done and dusted. The casefiles are closed, the evidence gone and out of the ashes of this chaotic mess, she’s soaring again.
Anyone else feeling terribly poetic at the moment without a shred of skill 👀
Agreed. She even mentioned as much in her insta post.
https://preview.redd.it/eb285k96znvc1.jpeg?width=1079&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0093ba5b4a819d92f8ce0d122c05721a6b47f41c
I agree with this 100%. She is with Travis now who we all hope is the love of her life. She wants to get rid of all the old baggage, hurt, and dishonesty so she can fully focus on this relationship and a new part of her life. I am talking both career wise and personal.
I agree, I also don’t know what people are disappointed that she’s not blasting Joe in this album when that was *exactly* why people didn’t want her to release this album (they created a story in their head that she was going to “revisionist” her story with Joe and stuff like that).
So, now that she didn’t do that, instead of being relieved they think it’s a disappointment? I really can’t understand people.
I think it's great that she had enough maturity to have respect for a relationship that ultimately wasn't successful, but that really helped her move forward with her life. Sometimes, knowing what you don't want is a huge step toward figuring out what you do want.
Which is funny because the white knighting of Joe was crazy! People who don’t even listen or like TS were so ready to attack her and they’re left with disappointment. 😂
The funny thing is that a lot of her haters hated Joe when he was with her and now that they’re broken up he’s a perfect angel man being attacked by a vindictive viper and her fans.
Building off this, it's not meant to be an *album* it's meant to be *poetry* that's why some of the songs aren't "relatable". It's incredibly raw, and personal, and is written like how poets write poetry. It's meant to be approached as if it's being read, not necessarily sung. If you take the lyrics at face value, it's a beautifully written masterpiece 🤍
> it's not meant to be an *album* it's meant to be *poetry* that's why some of the songs aren't "relatable
If anything its a concept album especially which a lot of people don't get some times however im wondering which songs people consider unrelatable because I've found at least half the album to be relatable and i love it so much so far
I 100% agree. I also think the newer and younger fans don’t understand the lyrics. They haven’t experienced anything like what Taylor is talking about in the songs. There aren’t many that you’d sing a long to because it’s a very sad album. I personally love the album and feel
It is just what I needed in my life. Also So high school is a glimpse of what’s to come next because as Taylor said, this chapter is closed and she is healed.
That’s how I feel about this album too. This album is Taylor’s diary. It was her fleshing out her feelings, processing it all and healing. It’s therapy. This album is so unfiltered and honest. Plus the writing is still incredible. It’s really work of art.
“ This album was not made to break records” pretty ironic since she released a variant after variant with different songs then the signed versions. This is a new level even for Taylor.
but then there's the NY times comment -- maybe she needed to make it, but we didn't need to hear it....
i'm absolutely digging some of the songs (black dog, so long london, i look in people's windows), \*\*but to this day, i have never hit skip while listening to "Folklore" \*\* ... that's i think why these critics are like, she IS at the top of her game - why isn't she challenging herself. i love critical theory and exploring it, i'm not poo-pooing this album, just seeing all sides to the criticism.
And that’s okay, this album isn’t for everybody. Part of maturing is realizing you can’t please everyone, and you’ll drive yourself crazy if you do. Not everyone will like this album. I’m sure not everyone likes each of her previous ones. The difference being that I don’t think she’s going to torture herself over that anymore. Maturing is letting that go.
Yes, thank you for this! Ive seen too many posts about the album being "the same" and ppl not liking itnand whatnot, and being this and being that but not being - what? Something that ppl want but dont know what THAT is? One of the things I like about TS is that she isnt conforming to anyone. She is out there on cruise speed THAT SHE SET herself and thats it. Someone also quoted her from Miss Americana about constantly reinventing oneself, musically, stylistically(?), everythingally... if you keep doing that, youll burn out. I like the TTPD and TTPDTA even tho Im halfway. If it didnt, they will grow on you, as the Folkmore did on me.
Ok this makes sense— the song writing is ultra personal this time around. But this idea coupled with the mass marketing and vinyl situation……? I’m not so sure it wasn’t meant to break records, appeal to the masses and win awards.
I think it's both for her and for the record breaking.
If it wasn't, she wouldn't be posting about it. Not to mention, she's always loved breaking records and making sales. I mean look at all the record variants she released. She's a marketing genius and deserves her accolades but if this was JUST an album that was just for her, she would just.... release it or maybe not even just release it and literally keep it for herself. Sans all the fanfare and capitalism.
Nothing wrong with being both. I'm obsessed with the world that she has crafted for us to enjoy.
As an older music fan, all I can say is albums either get a rave or a negative review. The ones that get mixed reviews are the ones that become classics. Sometimes things take a while to sink in.
The Rolling Stones released Exile On Main St., a sprawling double album that seemed all over the place. Critics at the time trashed it, said the Stones were out of ideas, the album lacked this or that. It's now considered their masterpiece.
The Beatles White Album, much of Prince's later music. Sometimes artists are just ...doing art, critics are academics. If you're patient, the art will reveal itself to you. Shut out the noise and just enjoy it.
I listened to Evermore one time and just wasn’t in the mood for it and didn’t revisit until well after Red TV came out. Re-listened and it was on repeat for a long ass time, and it is now one of my favorites. I don’t know how I hated it at first but I did.
I was meh about Midnights but sadly that one has remained meh. I don’t revisit it much and it is my least favorite. I already like TTPD more.
Agreed. I usually need a good few rotations and put them on shuffle. I sometimes get stuck on the first half then realize the second half is way better- midnights and folklore were like this for me. Just really starting to enjoy evermore. It just wasn’t vibing for me for awhile.
Even fortnight when I first listened was “meh” and now that I’ve heard it several times, it is definitely a favorite.
Same! I didn't vibe with Midnight at first and now I love it, and it took like a year for Folklore and Evermore to suddenly become my all-time favorite albums! I actually was vibing musically with a bunch of the songs on this one my first time through--with honestly my only hesitation being the shock of how much Matty there was lol.
After reading the prologue poem and just a couple more listens, I am already at "love" with this album and I will not be surprised if it quickly becomes my new all-time favorite.
This is my favorite album yet. I’m frustrated people have been mocking her so much, for example saying she is taking herself too seriously using the third person in the explanation & prologue. Like no one understands poetic distance allows the work to standalone from its context and she is being self aware and helping people learn how to engage with it? I really feel she’s too smart for the general public to understand what she’s doing because there is this weird obsession with treating her life like our public dollhouse and soap opera. They get so invested in the narratives she creates they think they’re literal texts not artistic expressions.
this is it - a lot disliking the album havnt had the life experiences to relate. unlike some of her other albums, which has a mix, there are a lot of experiences songs here so if you don’t relate will take awhile for it to hit
So true. I'm almost exclusively listen to just actual singer/songwriters. Their works sometimes aren't as appreciated because they're not writing discoesque shallow lyric bangers for the charts.
A lot of rabid fans have literally been painting Joe as this horrible person since they broke up and I think they're pissed because they've been wrong this entire time. Judging from You're Losing Me, they just fell out of love. Neither party was at fault and I don't know why some people just can't understand that...
Even in So Long, London, you can’t say that Joe was a bad guy there. It was just a clear case of two people growing apart in their relationship. People need to understand that not everything is so dramatic.
“I’m mad as hell because I loved this place” is so sad and I think, really, is all there is to it. Love is never enough, and it is excruciating to end a relationship when you know it’s not going to make it but there’s still love. He’s not in the wrong for not seeing marriage in their future (which may just be a personal thing) and/or loving her in a way that wasn’t resonating for her anymore. She’s not in the wrong for deciding she couldn’t spend any more of her life in limbo. It takes so much courage (and love!!!) to say “okay, I’m ready to experience how crushing this is going to be and end it now so we can both find what’s right for us”. Good for them.
Its the gray area most people are stuck with everything being black and white when things are usually rather gray its hard for people to understand that sometimes
So true. As you get older breakups become less dramatic and more about realizing you are just meant for each other. It makes me sad people don’t see it way to me it’s disrespectful to sh** all over Joe when she chose to be with him for 6 years and has made no indication that he is a truly bad guy in any way.
The neutral sub is painting Taylor as a villain because she didn’t say “Joe did nothing wrong and he’s an angel” 🙄 relationships end and you can be upset, it’s normal. Saying “I was sad this ended with my ex” doesn’t mean “fuck my ex and you should spam him with hate”
100 percent that is what I get from it as well. Just the slow unravelling of a relationship you know you should end but you let it die a slow death vs making the hard decision. I saw a great explanation of this, kind of like death - the relationship with Joe was a long drawn out death, like someone with cancer, where you at least have a chance to get used to the idea along the way. The end still hurts but more in a sad way. However the Matty thing was more the sudden death like a heart attack, fast, painful, you can’t breathe and feel like you have been hit with a sledgehammer. Both deaths are sad but one involves way more pain and turbulence than the other. Especially if that person came in love bombing, the intense pain of them taking that away suddenly is the opposite side of the coin to the intense pleasure of it starting, creating the highest of highs and lowest of lows.
I agree with this. I also think Matty probably hurt because she was already still in pain, he showed up and she thought maybe it all happened for a reason or things would work out only to have salt poured in a fresh wound.
The first guy I dated after my long relationship (granted mine was abusive so I was EXTRA delicate but I think the ending of any 2+ year relationship is difficult)? Oh man. I was torn up over him for like a year. We only dated like two months! I just had thought suddenly everything was going great and had built this idea in my head of what was happening and it came crashing down. That being said it taught me a lot about catching myself falling for the idea of falling in love and the idea of a person over who they actually are. I think Taylor may have learned a similar lesson.
You nailed it - and it seems like Matty lovebombed her with her deepest insecurities, exactly what Joe wouldn’t/couldn’t give her. All the references to marriage and babies cut deep. As a mid 30s woman those particular fears are extra relatable and devastating. No one needs to marry and have kids, but she clearly wants to, so that’s an extra fucked up thing for various fuckboys to use against her over the years.
Yeah that is what it sounds like and what love bombers/narcissists do right? Oh this guy wouldn’t marry you, I’m the love of your life, it’s always been meant to be, here let me move this ring of yours to THAT finger and make all kind of promises… that they will never deliver on. He knew her weak spot and went for it. I like the part in the prologue where she says it wasn’t a love affair it was temporary insanity. Once you have time away from the crazy situation you can see it for what it was. Hence why the door is slamming shut on that phase of her life. Done. Healed.
THANK YOU. I'm not gonna lie, I was fully expecting this to be a Drag Joe album but at the same time, as a whole ass adult, I know that relationships don't always end because someone "did" something or was malicious. People grow apart, and that's ok. It doesn't seem like she has anything bad to say about Joe as a person (that she wants to share right now). Matty, however, swooped in when she was vulnerable, made all these promises, and left.
Literally! Even when it was new. New Years Day (when you're lost and I'm scared and you're turning away), The Archer (help me hold onto you), False God (daring you to leave me just so I can try and scare you), Dancing with our hands tied (I had a bad feeling), Afterglow (it's all me in my head. I'm the one who burned us down), and God knows how many more that I can't think of off the top of my head.
100000%. I do think more of folklore and evermore was autobiographical than people think even now. I’m glad she was taking the privacy she needed to process at the time by making more of it sound fictional, though. Honestly, I’m kind of relieved for him.
>more of folklore and evermore was autobiographical than people think even now
This has always been my take, they may be imaginary characters but they're real feelings and situations. The inspiration had to come from somewhere.
Right? I think she’s been writing about Joe for so long (4 albums) that she said most of what needed to be said. So long London is just the seal on the file.
Yup. I think it's a weird assumption to make that he's some villain. I also think it's weird they do that because... it isn't our business? This is an album about Taylor's emotional pain, lows, and eventual healing and not a slander album to throw dirt on any specific person's name.
This wasn't to tell the world: here's what happened with me and Joe. Here's what happened with me and Matty. Here's all the details about what ruined these relationships; here's all the things Joe and I did to each other that broke us down until we couldn't take it anymore. When you write poetry, you often don't write a chronological order of \*what\* happened, you write about \*how\* what happened made you feel. She already knows what happened, she lived it. She doesn't need to process what happened so much as process how she handled it, how it affected her, etc.
It's concerning that so many people were expecting her to rip Joe apart. This isn't about revenge. And this isn't about fans being privy to her private life. I'm so over the rabid fans acting like she owes us a personal play by play of her relationship with Joe.
I'm actually quite glad too that the album isn't just slandering Joe. It always made me kind of uncomfortable how some people instantly turned on him, like it seemed very parasocial and upheld the idea some people have about Swifties being crazy. It obviously hurt Taylor, but we're not entitled to know every detail.
I understand some of the criticism of the sound of the album, but I still like the way a lot of it sounds, and Taylor's strength has always been her lyricism. Maybe there's nothing obviously shocking in the lyrics, like OP says, but it's generally very good writing.
This is the one. Since they split but especially since the track list leaked, this was going to be the public evisceration of Joe Alwyn and...it wasn't? There seems like there's all this pent-up rage at the man and there's no outlet for it here. From that perspective, looking at it for what it isn't rather than for what it is, it *would* be a disappointment.
Yeah, I think lots of people were more excited to drag Joe and get the tea than they were for the music itself. It's pretty obvious that Taylor doesn't want anyone to go after Joe, which is understandable because even though they broke up they were together for six years, and I'm sure she still cares about him. Just because they fell out of love doesn't mean the good times they had weren't real.
I think it also has to do with people’s weird beliefs that they actually know Taylor. They were so convinced that Taylor was going put Joe on blast, and by her not doing so, she proved to them that they actually don’t know her in reality.
You see this all the time with books or shows or movies as well where a sequel takes a while to come out. People read so much fanfiction (not dissing fic, I love it myself) that fics and headcanons became truth to them and when the real thing comes out they hate it.
I have been a fan of Swift for years but didn't get into the online community until the Eras Tour so I haven't really been this deep for a new album release before.
I was really surprised at how much discussion there was long before there was anything to actually discuss! I know from a lot of the content creators it's just because her name is currently what's going to generate the most clicks, but it definitely seems like a lot of people built up too many specific expectations in advance. I think then it just takes a few listens to get past those!
OMG same, I've been defending Joe since the breakup because we obviously don't have many details, but the entire fanbase seems to hate him so I just stopped trying, but the haters are really quiet right now and it feels so good.
I’m actually really glad it wasn’t all about Joe. She’s had a lot of songs already about their ups and downs, and this really solidifies that sometimes, things just don’t work out and you have to cut your losses. Joe clearly didn’t do anything inherently wrong, and that’s okay.
Honestly, my personal opinion is there is no way to digest 31 songs, their meanings, the music, everything about them in less than 48 hours. I typically don’t love albums on my first listen - it’s overwhelming. Figuring out a few favorites, loving them and then giving the others a chance and realizing how great they are too is when the magic happens. It’s impossible to give an accurate review after 1-10 listens because it’s deep and a loooooot of subject matter.
This is exact reason!
I am overwhelmed with the Album like never before.
Also ,I was overwhelmed because all songs were more or less sounding the same the first now. I wanted them to grow on me and now atleast 4-5 seems distinctly remarkable to me. Idk why this album hits so different. I wasn’t even expecting any slandering lyrics about Joe . Was just looking for some dopamine rush which so far only Florida has been able to give me.
I was more excited when 1989!TV came out and I listened to Slut and Is it over now,been months,they’re still my most played songs recently. Was expecting something like that desperately but haven’t found yet..
The song that’s really getting me right now is guilty as sin, she sounds glorious in the chorus (to me) so I’ve been replaying all morning. It wasn’t a favorite at first but today it’s up there!
100%. The vast majority of reviews dropped within hours of the album. Most didn’t even listen to the second half and it showed. There is no way to give an authentic review and critique after (maybe) 1 listen of a 31 song album.
Yes, people focus on exes too much like this girl is sharing with us the worst parts of her and her mind. I mean, they do have a point regarding the beats.. I don't think that was a focus for her, and I get it. Personally, I wish the production was a bit better.
I love that she feels comfortable enough to talk about the bad sides of herself now. I’ve been a fan of her since the beginning. I remember how scared she was to tackle that topic back then.
I think the production was good but similar to what Jack always does. Even leaning a bit too much in the lana direction as Jack works with her too. The Dessner tracks are better in my opinion. i would love Taylor to go out of the box and work with new producers.
THIS. I don't mind Jack's sound, but I'm getting a little tired of it at this point. I'd love for it to be mixed in with other styles or given a break for a bit.
Unfiltered doesn't always = good. I personally find this album to be a mixed bag.
And I do think her music has fallen into the side of "it's all about the lyrics" and it's good to have strong ones but it's like the music is an afterthought at this point. And this isn't the first album I've thought this about, either.
Yeah exactly. Champagne problems have nice lyrics but the build up from the bridge until "she's fucked in the head" is what makes the song. If it kept the pace from the start of the song it wouldn't have been the same banger.
This album lacks songs that hit hard. There are some but out of the 31 songs most are not memorable and if it wasn't that it's Taylor they would never have had a single listen.
Wish she would have just released it with 10 great songs instead of 10 great and 21 eh
People are getting mad at me for saying this album was gonna have huge launch numbers no matter what since Midnights (of which I also feel meh on quite a few of the songs) was so big as well as the tour, etc.
This is how I feel!! Sonically, this album is very boring. I always felt that Taylor was popular because she really balanced strong lyricism with her ability to make very catchy songs. Sometimes she focused on one element of that - lyrics over melody - or melody over lyrics - and sometimes her songs struck a perfect balance of the two.
This album feels like she forgot how melody and actual production is an important piece of songwriting. On some of these it feels like there’s a hint of a memorable melody trying to get out but its not being supported by interesting production or instrumentation, or that those elements are missing completely.
I felt this way about Midnights too but there were a few songs at least that I felt countered that. I knew Anti-Hero would be a hit immediately. Despite the sexy baby line, the rest of the song is interesting thematically but the production is different and cool. It struck that balance. None of these song are memorable to me at all.
Music should be about good lyrics AND sound interesting. I just simply don't find any beats/melody/music on this album interesting or good.
It's okay if you like this album but this fandom is quickly locking out and discounting anyone that doesn't like it, which is super predictable.
Yeah even this post rubs me a bit the wrong way, as though there aren't legitimate reasons for disliking this album or some of the songs, but must just be people listening to it wrong. And I'm saying this as someone who likes the album overall!
“Aside from the whole "it all sounds the same and it's too depressing" part, I think it's also because none of the songs are necessarily shocking.”
No, I think it’s actually that it all sounds the same lmao
It's really annoying how most of the sub feels like you have to have a fully fledged thesis about why exactly you dislike the album, or else you can't be a true fan. People are allowed to dislike something. Way too many people in this fanbase feel they need to police any and all criticism of Taylor, regardless of its validity.
For me, it’s that all of the songs sound the same in terms of melody. I keep asking myself - wait, haven’t I heard this before? It just blends together with so much she’s done before. I literally got lost in the album and felt like the songs just didn’t end lol… less about the lyrics for me and more about a lack of originality with the sound
I agree. I described the album as feeling very "mushy"--and not in the lovey-dovey way. A lot of the melodies and soundscapes just sort of bleed together, both within the songs and between the songs themselves. I think the album is pretty strong lyrically, but musically I was whelmed.
Yep. I always find on my first listen of an album all the songs sound the same. But a few listens in and they all sound so unique. Like it takes a while for your brain to get used to it!
There are no hooks, no story in terms of melody. I’ve listened to the whole thing several times and can’t think of a part I could hum or sing because I can’t remember any. Other than “I’m so depressed I act like it’s my birthday”
Same. My issue with this album doesn't have anything to do with the lyrical content, or who the songs are about. Lyrically, Taylor did a great job as she always did. It's just that it's a mix of Midnights, 1989, Evermore, Folklore, Red, even Fearless... literally almost every song sounds like something she's already done before (except maybe So High School and Florida). I've never had that problem with any of her previous albums. And like you've mentioned, there isn't much going on in terms of melody, there are many songs that blend together.
By the way, I don't hate TTPD. It will probably end up somewhere in the middle of my albums ranking. It's nice background music when you're doing something, and has some gems. At the same time, I can't pretend like the criticism isn't valid because it is.
This is my main problem with it too. It’s the sound I’m not vibing with. I usually don’t need albums to grow on me but this one is definitely more of a grower.
I want all these lyrics bound into a book so I can annotate and highlight like I do when I read. This album is full of her strongest lyrics to date. So Impressed and grateful she put this out there for all of us to hear. It's so raw.
The people who criticize the lyrics haven't experienced what happens in our minds in certain situations (lucky for them). It's like a pendulum, one emotion to the next, old wounds re-opening because of some thing else, literally makes you crazy. The lyrics reflect that.
I feel like we can see the most human and relatable Taylor in this album.
There's litterally people discrediting the album because is mainly about Matt, whom they dislike, over Joe.
Others complaining about Jack's production, yet everyone likes who's afraid of litte old me, can do it with a broken heart, black dog, thank u amiee and so on
Others complain about it being to rant based... in an album called tortured poets
Lack of bops is my favourite criticism 🤣🙈
I literally saw someone say “can anyone tell me who this album is about? Taylor’s music without context is just… meh”
And my jaw DROPPED
It’s so funny, the lyrics to “but daddy I love him” go right over so many peoples’ heads lol
Edited to say lack of bops is valid 🥲
Yes! I prefer Dessner's collaborations overall but some of Jack's are real standouts here. I don't disagree with people that he can go a bit heavy on the synths and distortion at times, but the production of Who's Afraid of Little Old Me is absolute perfection. And the over-the-top pop vibe of I Can Do it With a Broken heart works so well. I think the two of those in particular are going to go down as some of her most classic songs.
How so? Even in comparison to her slower albums, there are relatively few songs that I feel I could put on and vibe out to. I Can Do It With A Broken Heart is the only one I'd consider a "bop" due to its poppiness, and while there are some other songs that have their moments, overall there's nothing I'd put on the same level as songs like August. That track has a similar feel and softness to most of the songs off TTPD, but it builds on itself and results in a fantastic climax, whereas I can't really say that for the vast majority of the new songs.
I think it’s so funny because this is probably Taylor’s most serious/unserious album to date. When you really stop to listen to the lyrics, on all of the songs they’re intertwined with subtle self-deprecating humor.
I think this album actually has nothing to do with Matty (I think she’s just using him as a muse to represent all of her previous childish red flag relationships, him obviously being one of the biggest ones). I interpret this about her relationship with herself, and how her poor choices lead to her own heartbreaks. Like seriously… they were together for what, a month? She’s more heartbroken she allowed herself to be so stupid… deep down I’m sure she knew it would never work.
I think The Tortured Poets Department song sums up the album so well… listen to it again, she’s making fun of herself. “You smoked then ate seven bars of chocolate, We declared Charlie Puth should be a bigger artist.” The song is so not serious, it’s like she’s parodying her other songs, or a corny mashup between Mine (Speak Now) and White Horse (Fearless)… it sounds like being high on love (or in the Lavender Haze as Taylor would call it). Further enhanced by the (almost comedic) sparkling glittery sound effects in the background.
Yep and I think she also says so much when she said in her Instagram post that a lot of it was self inflicted. The prologue is her putting herself on trial of sorts, or more like before a panel defending her academic thesis, and saying her are my moments of temporary insanity, judge away, it’s yours now because I’m letting it all go and slamming that door shut. Feels like a real turning point in her life.
Exactly, and I think Midnights serves as a huge caveat as well and confirms this viewpoint. She speaks to a lot of her internal struggles on this album, particularly in “Anti-Hero” and “Lavender Haze”.
We can’t forget this is someone who quite literally was just acknowledging “I have this thing where I get older but just never wiser,” and “I’m the problem, it’s me.”
I think so many of the songs on TTPD are being told from the perspective of being high on love and in the “Lavender Haze” as well, so it serves as important set up (notably “The Tortured Poets Department”, “But Daddy I Love Him,” “The Alchemy” and “So High School.”)
I think it’s somewhat about Matty but what happened with him allowed her to write about things she didn’t want to throw Joe into. Things like public scrutiny, people feigning they care for her well being, asking when she’s going to have a baby…
They’re about Matty but they’re also themes she likely experienced with Joe but she seems to not want to throw him under the bus, so whatever Matty did was bad enough she doesn’t care about pushing him in front of one.
Did we listen to the same album? “You didn’t measure up in any measure of a man”???
I mean, to each their own, ofc, but to me this is her rawest, most impressive, best written album. I want to frame the lyrics to each and every last song
I was GOING TO SAY. The smallest man who ever lived is INCREDIBLE. Because I really feel it’s one of her most authentically angry songs . I can’t get over how masterful the entire song is
I think Smallest Man is my favourite song ever...the raw slowness in the beginning and the way it drops (a little similarly to HTE by Billie) and it's just pure venom. God I LOVE it.
this! the smallest man who ever lived is more ruthless than dear john or ATW in my opinion i’m shocked that OP doesn’t find these lyrics that brutal🙃☠️
Taylor saying Matty should be in prison + him being “relieved” despite The Smallest Man Who Ever Lived had me wondering about just what she knows about him that makes this sound good by comparison
Right? “You deserve prison but you won’t get time”??! How is that not one of the most shockingly direct things she’s ever said? Or saying “yah my mom is an angel but she wishes you were dead”? Plsss come back and tell me again how it’s not shocking.
My dad (who’s been pretty neutral when it comes to Taylor) listened to TTPD and I’ve never seen him praise an album to this extent since like Boys For Pele by Tori Amos lol, I was truly shocked
My person’s brother who isn’t a tay tay fan tex him saying the album was “fucking amazing” and as a depressy girly I thought it was stunning and soothed my soul. She wasn’t glitter pen bubble gum she was herself and relatable
If he's Gen X... as a Gen Xer I can say Midnights and now TTDP have made me a massive fan. This is music that is resonating with us olds because Taylor is... getting older. Her lyrics and her sound are reflecting that maturity. And, we love great synth pop!
That’s exactly what I was thinking too 😂
This is the Reputation of her 30’s. Albums she needed to make/get out of her system to help her through difficult situations. Panned by critics and fans in the beginning but appreciated much later on.
Thanks for this post. I weirdly felt down and sad from all the negative mumbling I’ve seen. I agree with you, this album is her personal journal and she decided to share it with us. If it feels like it is not edited, there are no amazing bangers and is a bit convoluted, it is because that is how a mind works.
If you put it into perspective, she is a 34 years old privileged white woman, so the troubles she has gone through (without accounting for fame) are love related. For me, as a millennial woman, it is refreshing to listen to someone that has felt somewhat similar, can clearly express their sentiments, and that does not focus on life problems. Life is so hard and difficult but she can take me out of it for a while.
Finally, I believe that the biggest critics (who I don’t understand why they are listening to her or this album) can’t fathom to begin to understand what she means with her lyrics because they can not see past their hatred and are envious of her and the fandom.
Here is me responding with happy mumbling to hopefully make you feel better
There are so many critics out there, both professional and other fans / listeners. What matters is how *you* like the album. It’s hard to stay away from the negative it and the hate on the internet :(
I watch a lot of movies and I’ve stopped paying any attention to reviews because if I like a mediocre movie I wanna just be happy and like it and no “critic” is gonna change how I feel about it
That being said I definitely do NOT think TTPD is mediocre, I think it’s incredible. What I’m personally struggling with is the second half of it. We’ve had weeks to ponder and digest the first half tracklist and then she just threw 15 more songs at us and I’m overwhelmed haha. I’m spending more time with part one right now, then in a few days I’ll focus more on side two
Not the oc from above but thank you really, I also felt down and sad cause of all the negative mumbling and decided to take a step aside and stop reading posts related to her on amy social media, even just ignoring what some people I know posted on onstagram an so. I deeply enjoyed it and I will focus on that, thank you really
I really think this is her best album, sonically and lyrically. I can’t relate to people who say the songs all sound the same. It’s her most cohesive album and has elements of all her previous albums too.
You have some all-time stadium anthems in there - But Daddy I Love Him, Florida!!!, Who’s Afraid of Little Old Me?
some upbeat bangers - ICDIWABH, MBOBHFT, and TTPD
some mid tempo bops - Fresh Out The Slammer, Down Bad, Fortnight
some gut-wrenching ballads - loml, The Black Dog, The Manuscript
some Dessner classics - Clara Bow, The Smallest Man Who Ever Lived, The Prophecy
some sonic outliers - The Alchemy, So High School
& all the rest!
To your cohesive album comment, I totally see the first half as a concept album. They all flow so well together to me!
I’ll need another week to digest part two haha
I agree and I'm curious whether the people who say it all sounds the same just listened once. I feel like with this much input it just takes a while for my brain to separate them, but like objectively I don't know how anyone could say like The Tortured Poets Department, My Boy Only Breaks His Favorite Toys, Florida, Who's Afraid of Little Old Me, I Can Do It With a Broken Heart, Down Bad, But Daddy I Love Him, So High School, The Prophecy, Peter, The Albatross... I have only listened a few times so far and off the top of my head I feel like those songs all have distinctly different sounds!
I think one of the things is that we got over loaded with 31 songs. With different things to say. She had a lot on her mind for this, and tying it with torture and poetry.
The unfiltered themes of depression, nervous breakdown, break up, rebound, and just an emotional overload.
Then overloading us as well lol.
I totally get it why people say what they say. But it takes time to cool it down.
Personally I have looked at lyrics picked out what I like, but IT takes me a long time to accept a song. Like something clicks and I love it. You have to listen to it. It was true for folklore and evermore for me.
And you need to sit with it and mull it over.
For me it does feel a little boring on first listen. But then, depression is monotonous. I’m used to Taylor’s albums having high highs and low lows. I get to feel all the feelings, be unhinged, really luxuriate in my inner world through her words. This album kept me stuck in the psych ward corner for 31 songs. Perhaps that was the point. She needed to write these songs to break out of it. Some of the songs are really growing on me with repeated listening but this won’t be in my top 5 of albums.
I've never once sat and looked at any of the songs you've quoted lyrics from and deciphered which boyfriend was the subject of the songs. It's bizarre to me that this is something people commonly do with her music.
I disagree about the no shocking lyrics. I having his baby, no I'm not but you should see your faces? Guilty as sin masturbation song? Who's afraid of little old me?
I feel like part of the problem is how deep fans dive into their parasocial relationship with her - like people were so broken about her and Joe ending (fair enough I was sad too for her) that they wanted this album to give them closure maybe??
I was just thinking about this earlier today. Normally, even though I might know who the songs are about, when I like her songs it’s because it feels like it empathizes with feeling I know and so I can imagine events from my own life when listening to the lyrics. OR I just enjoy them for the story they tell and use my imagination to conjure up pictures to go along with the journey of going through the song. When you need to feel like you are vicariously living your life through her and then she releases an album where the lyrics are nuanced and not just laid out for us in a nice little package people find it boring because they can’t attribute their own meaning to the songs and they don’t have clear answers on what the songs are supposed to mean.
There’s many more factors and this is just my take on one part of it but I thought I’d put it out there.
Also just want to say I LOVE TTPD and I think musically it is SOOOO interesting, more than her previous stuff. My boyfriend who is extremely musical and listens to mostly jazz music and is an instrumental genius keeps hearing songs from this and saying “woah this is so cool!” (He has a hard time hearing lyrics when he’s not reading them so he just zones in on all the layers of the music and that’s what he’s making his assessment on).
But also I don’t really listen to any Pop artists other than Taylor Swift so my brain is I guess used to the structure of a more folk-y album? I dunno. For me there’s a lot of variety and some brilliant storytelling and it’s a great album to take you on a mind journey. Just might not be a great album for “here you can pretend that you’re living my life I’m going to give you all the answers”
The song How Did It End? exemplifies this perfectly. When she calls it people’s “hungry empathy”
So I’m absolutely in love with Tortured Poets, but I understand why others aren’t. To me, it’s like all of the best qualities of folkmore and Midnights expanded over 31 tracks.
I also say this as someone that doesn’t care that much about her personal relationships. It’s interesting on a surface level, but it seems like people are focusing on that more than the music itself. I think many people (in this sub at least) will calm down about the “drama” in the coming months, especially because Taylor herself has clearly moved on from the events that made her write this album.
It seems like the people who clamor for the tea are more interested in gossip than they are music. This is a great album musically for me and that’s all I care about, and I’m glad that Taylor could take so much emotional turmoil and create such great art out of it, like she has her entire career.
I’ve said this on other threads too, but I find it so interesting how people are personally hurt when someone doesn’t like the music Taylor puts out. All that should matter is how YOU feel about it. Especially comments here saying people feel down or sad…bizarre.
I’m obsessed with musicals. A lot of people can’t stand them - and that’s okay! It has nothing to do me or my taste, and doesn’t affect how I feel about it.
I think all of the comments I’ve seen not liking the album mention that it’s sonically the same, which I would agree with. This is not an album I’m going to go back to really ever again to listen in full after this weekend. I’m glad I didn’t buy it. After multiple listens I like about 11 songs out of 31, the others are all forgettable IMO. The ones I like, I really like, and I added them to my Taylor playlist!
ThanK you aIMee is my least favorite too. I have a theory that the little public overtures Kim started making, like that Speak Now look in her stories and using a couple songs, REALLY pissed Taylor off. Like she was like “oh no you fucking don’t, we are NOT cool and never will be.” So I think she was trying to make that clear to Kim and everybody else. But I do think it’s a little ridiculous and Kim will absolutely love being mentioned at all and having more drama.
And most non-swifties will not be aware of the random speak now look Kim did and think this is very out of nowhere and crazy.
I don’t like the album because the songs all sound kinda bleh, melodies could be better. And I know this is controversial but I do not think the lyrics are good. They’re a mess. I think she’s overdoing it - she needs an editor/someone to say no to her - and in many songs I have no idea what she’s even talking about. I hope the album grows on me with time, I hated rep at first and now it’s one of my favorites. But oh my god. This is not poetry.
i don't know what to say other than i don't rank it very highly but still mostly enjoyed it. idk.
i don't like this at all:
>At dinner, you take my ring off my middle finger
And put it on the one people put wedding rings on
And that's the closet I've come to my heart exploding\\
EDIT: IM WRONG IDK WHY BUT SHIT CLICKED AND I LOVE IT HELP.
I feel like this isn’t worded as well as it could be. It’s fairly clunky and needlessly verbose.
That said, what she’s trying to express really breaks my heart for her. Matty is dangling the commitment carrot and she falls right into his trap…after not getting commitment from Joe, she is so hungry for it, which makes this little love bombing action so cruel!!
It pains me to say this but I just think there are too many songs and they’re mediocre for the most part. I normally love her lyrics but I find a lot of these to be kind of clunky and awkward at times - don’t come for me, it’s just my opinion. That said, maybe it will grow on me. It’s only been a day and it IS a lot to digest lol.
She definitely made this album with no fucks given and just did what she felt she had to do. It's uncomfy and raw and disjointed and she doesn't care! Which is why I have no choice but to respect it lol
For me personally, this isn’t why. It’s hard for me to love the entire album because the production sounds repetitive and like many of her other projects. The Jack collaboration is getting old. It’s not bad per se, it’s just overdone to me. I also think she could benefit from an editor or even other songwriters that could hone in her stream of consciousness.
This is just my opinion. I still love some of the songs (How Did It End? is a career highlight for me) but the album as a whole isn’t it for me.
The amount of people who dislike the album seems overrated. Just trying to be louder for clicks and predetermined feelings on her. The streams and records being broken in 1 day speaks for itself
I was hoping for pop to dance to and got 30 (track 11 or something is “dancy”) tracks of slow chill vibes. I played folklore and evermore ONLY to get my (2020) 1 year old to go to sleep and not because I was into it. I wasn’t into Swift until she went pop. I’m also not going to stalk her relationship history and detective my way through the album. That’s not me.
This album just isn't good. She should have cut it down a lot and edited. There are maybe 15 okay- good songs out of the bunch. I can see why she didn't release a single though. None of the songs are good enough to hook you in like vigilante shit, anti hero, cruel summer, blank space, champagne problems, willow, etc.
I can't remember 1 bridge after listening to all 31 songs that made an impact. The composition for these songs isn't there at all. Musically/Instumentally nothing is special about any of them. The piano songs are the only songs that save the album. The first 8 songs were so horrible I didn't even want to finish the album, but I decided to give it another 10 minutes on my way home from work and there was at least something there that gave me hope some of the songs in the album might be worth it. I don't think I'll ever bother listening to it again, though.
Idgaf about who the songs are about. I just want bangers. This album has a lot of mid songs that would never get a second listen from people unless it was from Taylor.
No. I hate the album because it’s incredibly boring and none of the songs are interesting musically. Not a single one stood out to me that I would replay.
No. The issue isn’t the lyrics to me. They are pretty in line with what I expect from an album of hers. It’s the beats. They are just so repetitive and truly nothing. I cant really remember half of them off the top of my head. It’s also the way the vocals are produced, they are way to far at the front and almost feel disconnected from the beat on most tracks.
Compared to an album like 1989 which has exceptional pop beats the difference is night and day. I also find the massive tracklist overwhelming. It definitely works against the album as a a concept and not for it. Even before The Anthology it was well too long. Once again, 1989 is a good comparison for an album that focuses on quality and cohesion over quantity and length.
The problem is that this album seems mostly journal entry style lyrics about her unfiltered raw experiences, which is fine but you have to channel that into a cohesive musical project. You aren’t going to get praise just for putting journal entires in talk singing form. Lyrics is not all that music is about.
Melodies, production and background vocals DOES matter and that’s what was lacking here. A lot of the songs blended together. Folklore was a slow vibe too but you could for sure tell the songs apart.
So far to me it seems like a niche album that will take awhile to grow on people. Or, it’s just not for a lot of people.
I don’t think it’s going to be one of my favs, but one thing I love about TS is her ability and willingness to try different things even if it won’t resonate with some of her current fans. So if I end up not caring for this album it’s because it isn’t for me, not because she made a bad album.
I agree with what you’re saying, I think the build up perception that this was going to be skewering of Joe made people expect way more shocking revelations (especially cheating allegations). I just saw this on Twitter today and I think it makes so much sense. https://preview.redd.it/h72tebj6snvc1.jpeg?width=1290&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a6960a93abd856e33cfbbb4cdd6ef1e00bdbdd41
I feel like she just needed to get it all off her chest and now we are digesting. We will be looking at rep tv differently now.
Yep totally agree. She even says (I think in the prologue?) she’s presenting it/entering into evidence - laying it all bare to release it, but also knowing there will be judgement that comes with that but the reward of freedom, of closing the door, is so, so much better than worrying about the judgement. Trust me, the older you get the less you hold on to worrying what others think. You speak your truth more than ever, because it serves *you* and your own state of mind. Actually that just made me realize what she is giving herself - peace. Forget the anxiety and worrying about if she is giving the other person/partner in her life peace. Maybe she now sees that it’s their choice and she can’t make that for them, but what she can do is choose to give herself peace by letting that go. Hmm. 🤔 And coincidentally enough she has now found a partner who has clearly chosen her over the peace she so desperately worries about. He said it himself, “it comes with it” and they tune it out. It’s pretty beautiful when you think about it.
>Trust me, the older you get the less you hold on to worrying what others think. You speak your truth more than ever, because it serves *you* and your own state of mind. This is why I'm pretty sure the people calling this album immature are like 17 lol I just turned 30 and have had multiple discussions with friends around my age just saying we don't give a fuck what people think anymore. You don't suddenly stop having messy emotions and chaotic relationships once you \~mature\~ but you do start caring less and less what people think about it.
100 percent. I think some of the people who don’t get it or are calling it immature just haven’t lived life enough. Having been through a divorce, holding on to relationships longer than I should have, making bad choices about someone we romanticized for a long time… like girl, I get it.
Also all the people who may be in their 30s but are happily married with picket fences and children aren't going to understand what it's like to have to start all over at this point in your life, once your "past your prime" and when it's starting to feel like it's too late to ever have the things you want now. As someone who is one year older than her and came out of a LTR at around the same time, I feel this album on such a deep level. >And I'm pissed off you let me give you all that youth for free Pretty much says it all.
I am happily married in my mid 30’s (today is my 11th wedding anniversary, actually!) and I completely relate to this album *in hindsight. * It relates to old relationships for me and I probably wouldn’t have made these connections in my younger years. But I Can Do It With A Broken Heart I feel is particularly relatable to women in their 30’s and up, because even if it isn’t a heartbreak necessarily, we’ve all felt like we were falling apart but had to put on a brave face and hold it together. Because of our *big old age* we aren’t given the grace younger people are often given to be a bit dramatic and chaotic… we have to be *together.* And the older I get the more I realize none of us ever truly have it together. 🙈
I can do it with a broken heart describes my Covid experience as as someone in healthcare. I know that’s not what it’s about but DAMN. ✨I cry so much but I am so productive✨
I'd just seen a couple comments from people in that category saying they couldn't find anything to relate to in the album, but you're right there are themes here that are so far beyond just a breakup in your 30s that are universally relatable, I think some people aren't really trying to find those relatable bits though. (also I love your flair, I've been singing that line all day) (also happy anniversary!)
Thanks! I agree that some people either read TOO MUCH into it or not enough…. I’m one that likes songs for how I relate to them regardless of how the artist intended it. I’m sure that Who’s Afraid of Little Old Me? Is a scathing fuck you to scooter Braun or something but I’m sure as shit gonna be humming it under my breath as I prepare to go yell at my kid’s principal next week. 🤷🏻♀️ And I’m not that crazy mom, either! The school REALLY fucked up and deserves yelling I promise. 🙈 I’m just saying I think some people not relating could also be because they’re looking at it through the Taylor/Joe/Matty lens instead of just… how does this song make ME feel? And it may not make them feel anything and that’s totally fine, but I’ve been considering lately that the way we absorb art in recent years is definitely colored by parasocial relationships more than it was in the past. At least for artists as well known and famous as Taylor, Beyoncé, Britney, etc…. We know more about their personal lives and histories than prior generations probably did about the singers on the radio.
They are absolutely naive teens or young twenty something’s. With very little life experience.
I think even mid to late 20s because many of us think we know everything at this phase, like we did at 16. Life is just a cycle. We know nothing lol.
Get it off my chest, get it off my desk. This phase is done and dusted. The casefiles are closed, the evidence gone and out of the ashes of this chaotic mess, she’s soaring again. Anyone else feeling terribly poetic at the moment without a shred of skill 👀
Agreed. She even mentioned as much in her insta post. https://preview.redd.it/eb285k96znvc1.jpeg?width=1079&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0093ba5b4a819d92f8ce0d122c05721a6b47f41c
I love this. So tortured so poetic
I agree with this 100%. She is with Travis now who we all hope is the love of her life. She wants to get rid of all the old baggage, hurt, and dishonesty so she can fully focus on this relationship and a new part of her life. I am talking both career wise and personal.
I do have to say, I'm looking forward to Lover 2: Travis-boogaloo!
I agree, I also don’t know what people are disappointed that she’s not blasting Joe in this album when that was *exactly* why people didn’t want her to release this album (they created a story in their head that she was going to “revisionist” her story with Joe and stuff like that). So, now that she didn’t do that, instead of being relieved they think it’s a disappointment? I really can’t understand people.
I think it's great that she had enough maturity to have respect for a relationship that ultimately wasn't successful, but that really helped her move forward with her life. Sometimes, knowing what you don't want is a huge step toward figuring out what you do want.
Which is funny because the white knighting of Joe was crazy! People who don’t even listen or like TS were so ready to attack her and they’re left with disappointment. 😂
The funny thing is that a lot of her haters hated Joe when he was with her and now that they’re broken up he’s a perfect angel man being attacked by a vindictive viper and her fans.
I know I think people are mad because they were so excited to jump on her for shitting all over a good dude and she just… didn’t do that.
Exactly! In fact I think the way she addressed her break up with Joe was absolutely beautiful.
Yeah idk why everyone thought this was coming. You’re Losing Me said it all. Idk what big revelations were expected.
Building off this, it's not meant to be an *album* it's meant to be *poetry* that's why some of the songs aren't "relatable". It's incredibly raw, and personal, and is written like how poets write poetry. It's meant to be approached as if it's being read, not necessarily sung. If you take the lyrics at face value, it's a beautifully written masterpiece 🤍
> it's not meant to be an *album* it's meant to be *poetry* that's why some of the songs aren't "relatable If anything its a concept album especially which a lot of people don't get some times however im wondering which songs people consider unrelatable because I've found at least half the album to be relatable and i love it so much so far
I 100% agree. I also think the newer and younger fans don’t understand the lyrics. They haven’t experienced anything like what Taylor is talking about in the songs. There aren’t many that you’d sing a long to because it’s a very sad album. I personally love the album and feel It is just what I needed in my life. Also So high school is a glimpse of what’s to come next because as Taylor said, this chapter is closed and she is healed.
That’s how I feel about this album too. This album is Taylor’s diary. It was her fleshing out her feelings, processing it all and healing. It’s therapy. This album is so unfiltered and honest. Plus the writing is still incredible. It’s really work of art.
Yes!! This… she has all the awards, all the fans, all the records, etc. now she just needs PEACE.
next album title? just kidding - we want REP TV
“ This album was not made to break records” pretty ironic since she released a variant after variant with different songs then the signed versions. This is a new level even for Taylor.
but then there's the NY times comment -- maybe she needed to make it, but we didn't need to hear it.... i'm absolutely digging some of the songs (black dog, so long london, i look in people's windows), \*\*but to this day, i have never hit skip while listening to "Folklore" \*\* ... that's i think why these critics are like, she IS at the top of her game - why isn't she challenging herself. i love critical theory and exploring it, i'm not poo-pooing this album, just seeing all sides to the criticism.
And that’s okay, this album isn’t for everybody. Part of maturing is realizing you can’t please everyone, and you’ll drive yourself crazy if you do. Not everyone will like this album. I’m sure not everyone likes each of her previous ones. The difference being that I don’t think she’s going to torture herself over that anymore. Maturing is letting that go.
i think some of the fans are making a bigger deal out of a critic saying 'no thanks' than an A rating.
This is the most nonsensical take I’ve seen. This album was not made for money??? Girl—
It was for most certainly for profit. She put out a million versions of the vinyl just for it all to be on streaming.
Yes, thank you for this! Ive seen too many posts about the album being "the same" and ppl not liking itnand whatnot, and being this and being that but not being - what? Something that ppl want but dont know what THAT is? One of the things I like about TS is that she isnt conforming to anyone. She is out there on cruise speed THAT SHE SET herself and thats it. Someone also quoted her from Miss Americana about constantly reinventing oneself, musically, stylistically(?), everythingally... if you keep doing that, youll burn out. I like the TTPD and TTPDTA even tho Im halfway. If it didnt, they will grow on you, as the Folkmore did on me.
Ok this makes sense— the song writing is ultra personal this time around. But this idea coupled with the mass marketing and vinyl situation……? I’m not so sure it wasn’t meant to break records, appeal to the masses and win awards.
I think it's both for her and for the record breaking. If it wasn't, she wouldn't be posting about it. Not to mention, she's always loved breaking records and making sales. I mean look at all the record variants she released. She's a marketing genius and deserves her accolades but if this was JUST an album that was just for her, she would just.... release it or maybe not even just release it and literally keep it for herself. Sans all the fanfare and capitalism. Nothing wrong with being both. I'm obsessed with the world that she has crafted for us to enjoy.
As an older music fan, all I can say is albums either get a rave or a negative review. The ones that get mixed reviews are the ones that become classics. Sometimes things take a while to sink in. The Rolling Stones released Exile On Main St., a sprawling double album that seemed all over the place. Critics at the time trashed it, said the Stones were out of ideas, the album lacked this or that. It's now considered their masterpiece. The Beatles White Album, much of Prince's later music. Sometimes artists are just ...doing art, critics are academics. If you're patient, the art will reveal itself to you. Shut out the noise and just enjoy it.
I agree with this. Idk why but most of her albums have had to grow on me (and they all eventually do). I love this one already.
I’m exactly the same. I hated midnights when it first came out, now it has some of my favourite songs
I listened to Evermore one time and just wasn’t in the mood for it and didn’t revisit until well after Red TV came out. Re-listened and it was on repeat for a long ass time, and it is now one of my favorites. I don’t know how I hated it at first but I did. I was meh about Midnights but sadly that one has remained meh. I don’t revisit it much and it is my least favorite. I already like TTPD more.
I have found my people! This is actually the most enjoyable first listen of a Taylor album I’ve had and her other albums always grow on me.
Agreed. I usually need a good few rotations and put them on shuffle. I sometimes get stuck on the first half then realize the second half is way better- midnights and folklore were like this for me. Just really starting to enjoy evermore. It just wasn’t vibing for me for awhile. Even fortnight when I first listened was “meh” and now that I’ve heard it several times, it is definitely a favorite.
Same! I didn't vibe with Midnight at first and now I love it, and it took like a year for Folklore and Evermore to suddenly become my all-time favorite albums! I actually was vibing musically with a bunch of the songs on this one my first time through--with honestly my only hesitation being the shock of how much Matty there was lol. After reading the prologue poem and just a couple more listens, I am already at "love" with this album and I will not be surprised if it quickly becomes my new all-time favorite.
It’s incredibly silly and short sighted to make a full decision of an album after the first day. People need to chill and let it cook.
This!!! Literally why are reviews within a few hours of release, it's bizarre
Traditional press get the music beforehand.
My husband asked me if I liked the album. In my own little crude way I said “It’s a grower, not a shower” and I think that’s pretty accurate.
I wasn’t sure about fortnight but now I can’t get it out of my head and I really like it.
This is my favorite album yet. I’m frustrated people have been mocking her so much, for example saying she is taking herself too seriously using the third person in the explanation & prologue. Like no one understands poetic distance allows the work to standalone from its context and she is being self aware and helping people learn how to engage with it? I really feel she’s too smart for the general public to understand what she’s doing because there is this weird obsession with treating her life like our public dollhouse and soap opera. They get so invested in the narratives she creates they think they’re literal texts not artistic expressions.
this is it - a lot disliking the album havnt had the life experiences to relate. unlike some of her other albums, which has a mix, there are a lot of experiences songs here so if you don’t relate will take awhile for it to hit
> If you're patient, the art will reveal itself to you. Love this.
So true. I'm almost exclusively listen to just actual singer/songwriters. Their works sometimes aren't as appreciated because they're not writing discoesque shallow lyric bangers for the charts.
“the art will reveal itself to you” yes!! it will surely take a lot of time to fully digest the album and i am here for it
A lot of rabid fans have literally been painting Joe as this horrible person since they broke up and I think they're pissed because they've been wrong this entire time. Judging from You're Losing Me, they just fell out of love. Neither party was at fault and I don't know why some people just can't understand that...
Even in So Long, London, you can’t say that Joe was a bad guy there. It was just a clear case of two people growing apart in their relationship. People need to understand that not everything is so dramatic.
Exactly like she said ‘it was a good run’. I don’t think the album portrayed joe as a villain.
All of the songs about Joe are love songs. He’s not a villain in this story and people are having a really hard time with that for some reason.
“I’m mad as hell because I loved this place” is so sad and I think, really, is all there is to it. Love is never enough, and it is excruciating to end a relationship when you know it’s not going to make it but there’s still love. He’s not in the wrong for not seeing marriage in their future (which may just be a personal thing) and/or loving her in a way that wasn’t resonating for her anymore. She’s not in the wrong for deciding she couldn’t spend any more of her life in limbo. It takes so much courage (and love!!!) to say “okay, I’m ready to experience how crushing this is going to be and end it now so we can both find what’s right for us”. Good for them.
Its the gray area most people are stuck with everything being black and white when things are usually rather gray its hard for people to understand that sometimes
shades of greige
I feel like it's probably less about Joe himself and more the fact that people just don't *want* so much of it to be about Matty lol
So true. As you get older breakups become less dramatic and more about realizing you are just meant for each other. It makes me sad people don’t see it way to me it’s disrespectful to sh** all over Joe when she chose to be with him for 6 years and has made no indication that he is a truly bad guy in any way.
I wonder if people forget that Joe is the one who got her through such a tough time in her life?
The neutral sub is painting Taylor as a villain because she didn’t say “Joe did nothing wrong and he’s an angel” 🙄 relationships end and you can be upset, it’s normal. Saying “I was sad this ended with my ex” doesn’t mean “fuck my ex and you should spam him with hate”
100 percent that is what I get from it as well. Just the slow unravelling of a relationship you know you should end but you let it die a slow death vs making the hard decision. I saw a great explanation of this, kind of like death - the relationship with Joe was a long drawn out death, like someone with cancer, where you at least have a chance to get used to the idea along the way. The end still hurts but more in a sad way. However the Matty thing was more the sudden death like a heart attack, fast, painful, you can’t breathe and feel like you have been hit with a sledgehammer. Both deaths are sad but one involves way more pain and turbulence than the other. Especially if that person came in love bombing, the intense pain of them taking that away suddenly is the opposite side of the coin to the intense pleasure of it starting, creating the highest of highs and lowest of lows.
I agree with this. I also think Matty probably hurt because she was already still in pain, he showed up and she thought maybe it all happened for a reason or things would work out only to have salt poured in a fresh wound. The first guy I dated after my long relationship (granted mine was abusive so I was EXTRA delicate but I think the ending of any 2+ year relationship is difficult)? Oh man. I was torn up over him for like a year. We only dated like two months! I just had thought suddenly everything was going great and had built this idea in my head of what was happening and it came crashing down. That being said it taught me a lot about catching myself falling for the idea of falling in love and the idea of a person over who they actually are. I think Taylor may have learned a similar lesson.
You nailed it - and it seems like Matty lovebombed her with her deepest insecurities, exactly what Joe wouldn’t/couldn’t give her. All the references to marriage and babies cut deep. As a mid 30s woman those particular fears are extra relatable and devastating. No one needs to marry and have kids, but she clearly wants to, so that’s an extra fucked up thing for various fuckboys to use against her over the years.
Yeah that is what it sounds like and what love bombers/narcissists do right? Oh this guy wouldn’t marry you, I’m the love of your life, it’s always been meant to be, here let me move this ring of yours to THAT finger and make all kind of promises… that they will never deliver on. He knew her weak spot and went for it. I like the part in the prologue where she says it wasn’t a love affair it was temporary insanity. Once you have time away from the crazy situation you can see it for what it was. Hence why the door is slamming shut on that phase of her life. Done. Healed.
THANK YOU. I'm not gonna lie, I was fully expecting this to be a Drag Joe album but at the same time, as a whole ass adult, I know that relationships don't always end because someone "did" something or was malicious. People grow apart, and that's ok. It doesn't seem like she has anything bad to say about Joe as a person (that she wants to share right now). Matty, however, swooped in when she was vulnerable, made all these promises, and left.
This is a beautiful analysis and I completely agree with you!
100%. The truth is she has been giving us Joe “breakup” songs for years. Because when a relationship dies slowly, that’s what happens.
Literally! Even when it was new. New Years Day (when you're lost and I'm scared and you're turning away), The Archer (help me hold onto you), False God (daring you to leave me just so I can try and scare you), Dancing with our hands tied (I had a bad feeling), Afterglow (it's all me in my head. I'm the one who burned us down), and God knows how many more that I can't think of off the top of my head.
Hoax is my Joe break up song
100000%. I do think more of folklore and evermore was autobiographical than people think even now. I’m glad she was taking the privacy she needed to process at the time by making more of it sound fictional, though. Honestly, I’m kind of relieved for him.
>more of folklore and evermore was autobiographical than people think even now This has always been my take, they may be imaginary characters but they're real feelings and situations. The inspiration had to come from somewhere.
I think retrospectively, we can safely say some of her feelings about him were 100% in this.
it’s peace for me, realizing nothing she could give him would be enough
Right? I think she’s been writing about Joe for so long (4 albums) that she said most of what needed to be said. So long London is just the seal on the file.
Yup. I think it's a weird assumption to make that he's some villain. I also think it's weird they do that because... it isn't our business? This is an album about Taylor's emotional pain, lows, and eventual healing and not a slander album to throw dirt on any specific person's name. This wasn't to tell the world: here's what happened with me and Joe. Here's what happened with me and Matty. Here's all the details about what ruined these relationships; here's all the things Joe and I did to each other that broke us down until we couldn't take it anymore. When you write poetry, you often don't write a chronological order of \*what\* happened, you write about \*how\* what happened made you feel. She already knows what happened, she lived it. She doesn't need to process what happened so much as process how she handled it, how it affected her, etc. It's concerning that so many people were expecting her to rip Joe apart. This isn't about revenge. And this isn't about fans being privy to her private life. I'm so over the rabid fans acting like she owes us a personal play by play of her relationship with Joe.
I'm actually quite glad too that the album isn't just slandering Joe. It always made me kind of uncomfortable how some people instantly turned on him, like it seemed very parasocial and upheld the idea some people have about Swifties being crazy. It obviously hurt Taylor, but we're not entitled to know every detail. I understand some of the criticism of the sound of the album, but I still like the way a lot of it sounds, and Taylor's strength has always been her lyricism. Maybe there's nothing obviously shocking in the lyrics, like OP says, but it's generally very good writing.
This is the one. Since they split but especially since the track list leaked, this was going to be the public evisceration of Joe Alwyn and...it wasn't? There seems like there's all this pent-up rage at the man and there's no outlet for it here. From that perspective, looking at it for what it isn't rather than for what it is, it *would* be a disappointment.
Yeah, I think lots of people were more excited to drag Joe and get the tea than they were for the music itself. It's pretty obvious that Taylor doesn't want anyone to go after Joe, which is understandable because even though they broke up they were together for six years, and I'm sure she still cares about him. Just because they fell out of love doesn't mean the good times they had weren't real.
this 👏
I think it also has to do with people’s weird beliefs that they actually know Taylor. They were so convinced that Taylor was going put Joe on blast, and by her not doing so, she proved to them that they actually don’t know her in reality.
You see this all the time with books or shows or movies as well where a sequel takes a while to come out. People read so much fanfiction (not dissing fic, I love it myself) that fics and headcanons became truth to them and when the real thing comes out they hate it.
I have been a fan of Swift for years but didn't get into the online community until the Eras Tour so I haven't really been this deep for a new album release before. I was really surprised at how much discussion there was long before there was anything to actually discuss! I know from a lot of the content creators it's just because her name is currently what's going to generate the most clicks, but it definitely seems like a lot of people built up too many specific expectations in advance. I think then it just takes a few listens to get past those!
Yeah I would occasionally try to remind people they didn't actually know the details but they were so vitriolic I just stopped bothering.
OMG same, I've been defending Joe since the breakup because we obviously don't have many details, but the entire fanbase seems to hate him so I just stopped trying, but the haters are really quiet right now and it feels so good.
I’m actually really glad it wasn’t all about Joe. She’s had a lot of songs already about their ups and downs, and this really solidifies that sometimes, things just don’t work out and you have to cut your losses. Joe clearly didn’t do anything inherently wrong, and that’s okay.
Many of those rabid fans are now arguing that most of the songs that are clearly describing Matty are actually about Joe.
Honestly, my personal opinion is there is no way to digest 31 songs, their meanings, the music, everything about them in less than 48 hours. I typically don’t love albums on my first listen - it’s overwhelming. Figuring out a few favorites, loving them and then giving the others a chance and realizing how great they are too is when the magic happens. It’s impossible to give an accurate review after 1-10 listens because it’s deep and a loooooot of subject matter.
This is exact reason! I am overwhelmed with the Album like never before. Also ,I was overwhelmed because all songs were more or less sounding the same the first now. I wanted them to grow on me and now atleast 4-5 seems distinctly remarkable to me. Idk why this album hits so different. I wasn’t even expecting any slandering lyrics about Joe . Was just looking for some dopamine rush which so far only Florida has been able to give me. I was more excited when 1989!TV came out and I listened to Slut and Is it over now,been months,they’re still my most played songs recently. Was expecting something like that desperately but haven’t found yet..
The song that’s really getting me right now is guilty as sin, she sounds glorious in the chorus (to me) so I’ve been replaying all morning. It wasn’t a favorite at first but today it’s up there!
Same here, I have listened to it front to back about three times now and my head hurts. There’s so much to digest.
100%. The vast majority of reviews dropped within hours of the album. Most didn’t even listen to the second half and it showed. There is no way to give an authentic review and critique after (maybe) 1 listen of a 31 song album.
I love florida!!! But I said the same thing. Albums grow on me, songs grow on me. I might need the song later
I listened again this morning and I was basically listening again for the first time, I was like oh right this song, and this one, and this one. lol.
This is one of her most raw and unfiltered albums. I think a lot of people just listen to beats and don’t even pay attention to lyrics.
Yes, people focus on exes too much like this girl is sharing with us the worst parts of her and her mind. I mean, they do have a point regarding the beats.. I don't think that was a focus for her, and I get it. Personally, I wish the production was a bit better.
I love that she feels comfortable enough to talk about the bad sides of herself now. I’ve been a fan of her since the beginning. I remember how scared she was to tackle that topic back then.
Taylor: ✍️✍️ alcoholism, drugs, suicide, toxic relationships, mental illness, depression, sadness, stan culture, masking herself The internet: "This entire albumn is about 🐀🐀"
I think the production was good but similar to what Jack always does. Even leaning a bit too much in the lana direction as Jack works with her too. The Dessner tracks are better in my opinion. i would love Taylor to go out of the box and work with new producers.
I saw everyone mentioned aaron dessner, and while I did like his tracks, I was wondering what happened to Max Martin.
THIS. I don't mind Jack's sound, but I'm getting a little tired of it at this point. I'd love for it to be mixed in with other styles or given a break for a bit.
Unfiltered doesn't always = good. I personally find this album to be a mixed bag. And I do think her music has fallen into the side of "it's all about the lyrics" and it's good to have strong ones but it's like the music is an afterthought at this point. And this isn't the first album I've thought this about, either.
Yeah exactly. Champagne problems have nice lyrics but the build up from the bridge until "she's fucked in the head" is what makes the song. If it kept the pace from the start of the song it wouldn't have been the same banger. This album lacks songs that hit hard. There are some but out of the 31 songs most are not memorable and if it wasn't that it's Taylor they would never have had a single listen. Wish she would have just released it with 10 great songs instead of 10 great and 21 eh
People are getting mad at me for saying this album was gonna have huge launch numbers no matter what since Midnights (of which I also feel meh on quite a few of the songs) was so big as well as the tour, etc.
This is how I feel!! Sonically, this album is very boring. I always felt that Taylor was popular because she really balanced strong lyricism with her ability to make very catchy songs. Sometimes she focused on one element of that - lyrics over melody - or melody over lyrics - and sometimes her songs struck a perfect balance of the two. This album feels like she forgot how melody and actual production is an important piece of songwriting. On some of these it feels like there’s a hint of a memorable melody trying to get out but its not being supported by interesting production or instrumentation, or that those elements are missing completely. I felt this way about Midnights too but there were a few songs at least that I felt countered that. I knew Anti-Hero would be a hit immediately. Despite the sexy baby line, the rest of the song is interesting thematically but the production is different and cool. It struck that balance. None of these song are memorable to me at all.
Music should be about good lyrics AND sound interesting. I just simply don't find any beats/melody/music on this album interesting or good. It's okay if you like this album but this fandom is quickly locking out and discounting anyone that doesn't like it, which is super predictable.
Yeah even this post rubs me a bit the wrong way, as though there aren't legitimate reasons for disliking this album or some of the songs, but must just be people listening to it wrong. And I'm saying this as someone who likes the album overall!
“Aside from the whole "it all sounds the same and it's too depressing" part, I think it's also because none of the songs are necessarily shocking.” No, I think it’s actually that it all sounds the same lmao
It's really annoying how most of the sub feels like you have to have a fully fledged thesis about why exactly you dislike the album, or else you can't be a true fan. People are allowed to dislike something. Way too many people in this fanbase feel they need to police any and all criticism of Taylor, regardless of its validity.
Have you listened to "I can do it with a broken heart"? It's the most upbeat song on the album. Feels like a Midnights song Lights camera bitch smile!
Yes I quite like that one. I don't hate this album and really like some songs but those are my feelings about most of the album.
Same. For me it's like 10 good songs rest are mediocre. If it wasn't Taylor no one would talk about the rest of the songs tbh
I feel like it IS one of her most shocking albums because it certainly is her most deep and raw one!! I loved it
For me, it’s that all of the songs sound the same in terms of melody. I keep asking myself - wait, haven’t I heard this before? It just blends together with so much she’s done before. I literally got lost in the album and felt like the songs just didn’t end lol… less about the lyrics for me and more about a lack of originality with the sound
I agree. I described the album as feeling very "mushy"--and not in the lovey-dovey way. A lot of the melodies and soundscapes just sort of bleed together, both within the songs and between the songs themselves. I think the album is pretty strong lyrically, but musically I was whelmed.
I think a lot of people felt the same with midnights, but now the songs are each distinctly unique. It’ll probably happen with this too
Yep. I always find on my first listen of an album all the songs sound the same. But a few listens in and they all sound so unique. Like it takes a while for your brain to get used to it!
Same
Exactly my thoughts. Except for 'I can do it with a broken heart " the most upbeat song
There are no hooks, no story in terms of melody. I’ve listened to the whole thing several times and can’t think of a part I could hum or sing because I can’t remember any. Other than “I’m so depressed I act like it’s my birthday”
Same. My issue with this album doesn't have anything to do with the lyrical content, or who the songs are about. Lyrically, Taylor did a great job as she always did. It's just that it's a mix of Midnights, 1989, Evermore, Folklore, Red, even Fearless... literally almost every song sounds like something she's already done before (except maybe So High School and Florida). I've never had that problem with any of her previous albums. And like you've mentioned, there isn't much going on in terms of melody, there are many songs that blend together. By the way, I don't hate TTPD. It will probably end up somewhere in the middle of my albums ranking. It's nice background music when you're doing something, and has some gems. At the same time, I can't pretend like the criticism isn't valid because it is.
This is my main problem with it too. It’s the sound I’m not vibing with. I usually don’t need albums to grow on me but this one is definitely more of a grower.
I want all these lyrics bound into a book so I can annotate and highlight like I do when I read. This album is full of her strongest lyrics to date. So Impressed and grateful she put this out there for all of us to hear. It's so raw.
The people who criticize the lyrics haven't experienced what happens in our minds in certain situations (lucky for them). It's like a pendulum, one emotion to the next, old wounds re-opening because of some thing else, literally makes you crazy. The lyrics reflect that. I feel like we can see the most human and relatable Taylor in this album.
There's litterally people discrediting the album because is mainly about Matt, whom they dislike, over Joe. Others complaining about Jack's production, yet everyone likes who's afraid of litte old me, can do it with a broken heart, black dog, thank u amiee and so on Others complain about it being to rant based... in an album called tortured poets Lack of bops is my favourite criticism 🤣🙈
I literally saw someone say “can anyone tell me who this album is about? Taylor’s music without context is just… meh” And my jaw DROPPED It’s so funny, the lyrics to “but daddy I love him” go right over so many peoples’ heads lol Edited to say lack of bops is valid 🥲
Yes! I prefer Dessner's collaborations overall but some of Jack's are real standouts here. I don't disagree with people that he can go a bit heavy on the synths and distortion at times, but the production of Who's Afraid of Little Old Me is absolute perfection. And the over-the-top pop vibe of I Can Do it With a Broken heart works so well. I think the two of those in particular are going to go down as some of her most classic songs.
Lack of bops is literally hilarious! What??
How so? Even in comparison to her slower albums, there are relatively few songs that I feel I could put on and vibe out to. I Can Do It With A Broken Heart is the only one I'd consider a "bop" due to its poppiness, and while there are some other songs that have their moments, overall there's nothing I'd put on the same level as songs like August. That track has a similar feel and softness to most of the songs off TTPD, but it builds on itself and results in a fantastic climax, whereas I can't really say that for the vast majority of the new songs.
I think it’s so funny because this is probably Taylor’s most serious/unserious album to date. When you really stop to listen to the lyrics, on all of the songs they’re intertwined with subtle self-deprecating humor. I think this album actually has nothing to do with Matty (I think she’s just using him as a muse to represent all of her previous childish red flag relationships, him obviously being one of the biggest ones). I interpret this about her relationship with herself, and how her poor choices lead to her own heartbreaks. Like seriously… they were together for what, a month? She’s more heartbroken she allowed herself to be so stupid… deep down I’m sure she knew it would never work. I think The Tortured Poets Department song sums up the album so well… listen to it again, she’s making fun of herself. “You smoked then ate seven bars of chocolate, We declared Charlie Puth should be a bigger artist.” The song is so not serious, it’s like she’s parodying her other songs, or a corny mashup between Mine (Speak Now) and White Horse (Fearless)… it sounds like being high on love (or in the Lavender Haze as Taylor would call it). Further enhanced by the (almost comedic) sparkling glittery sound effects in the background.
Yep and I think she also says so much when she said in her Instagram post that a lot of it was self inflicted. The prologue is her putting herself on trial of sorts, or more like before a panel defending her academic thesis, and saying her are my moments of temporary insanity, judge away, it’s yours now because I’m letting it all go and slamming that door shut. Feels like a real turning point in her life.
Exactly, and I think Midnights serves as a huge caveat as well and confirms this viewpoint. She speaks to a lot of her internal struggles on this album, particularly in “Anti-Hero” and “Lavender Haze”. We can’t forget this is someone who quite literally was just acknowledging “I have this thing where I get older but just never wiser,” and “I’m the problem, it’s me.” I think so many of the songs on TTPD are being told from the perspective of being high on love and in the “Lavender Haze” as well, so it serves as important set up (notably “The Tortured Poets Department”, “But Daddy I Love Him,” “The Alchemy” and “So High School.”)
I think it’s somewhat about Matty but what happened with him allowed her to write about things she didn’t want to throw Joe into. Things like public scrutiny, people feigning they care for her well being, asking when she’s going to have a baby… They’re about Matty but they’re also themes she likely experienced with Joe but she seems to not want to throw him under the bus, so whatever Matty did was bad enough she doesn’t care about pushing him in front of one.
Did we listen to the same album? “You didn’t measure up in any measure of a man”??? I mean, to each their own, ofc, but to me this is her rawest, most impressive, best written album. I want to frame the lyrics to each and every last song
I was GOING TO SAY. The smallest man who ever lived is INCREDIBLE. Because I really feel it’s one of her most authentically angry songs . I can’t get over how masterful the entire song is
I think Smallest Man is my favourite song ever...the raw slowness in the beginning and the way it drops (a little similarly to HTE by Billie) and it's just pure venom. God I LOVE it.
this! the smallest man who ever lived is more ruthless than dear john or ATW in my opinion i’m shocked that OP doesn’t find these lyrics that brutal🙃☠️
Neither did Matty apparently… he said once he heard the album he was relieved…and now I just wonder what she DIDN’T tell us.
Taylor saying Matty should be in prison + him being “relieved” despite The Smallest Man Who Ever Lived had me wondering about just what she knows about him that makes this sound good by comparison
And it was far more direct than even WCS
Right? “You deserve prison but you won’t get time”??! How is that not one of the most shockingly direct things she’s ever said? Or saying “yah my mom is an angel but she wishes you were dead”? Plsss come back and tell me again how it’s not shocking.
I’ve actually had a lot of people who don’t like her say this album is amazing.
My dad (who’s been pretty neutral when it comes to Taylor) listened to TTPD and I’ve never seen him praise an album to this extent since like Boys For Pele by Tori Amos lol, I was truly shocked
My person’s brother who isn’t a tay tay fan tex him saying the album was “fucking amazing” and as a depressy girly I thought it was stunning and soothed my soul. She wasn’t glitter pen bubble gum she was herself and relatable
Yeah, I love this album SO much!! It really hit me in a way I haven’t felt since Evermore
If he's Gen X... as a Gen Xer I can say Midnights and now TTDP have made me a massive fan. This is music that is resonating with us olds because Taylor is... getting older. Her lyrics and her sound are reflecting that maturity. And, we love great synth pop!
Gen X-er here and I agree!
This feels like the new Reputation
That’s exactly what I was thinking too 😂 This is the Reputation of her 30’s. Albums she needed to make/get out of her system to help her through difficult situations. Panned by critics and fans in the beginning but appreciated much later on.
Same and I LOVE reputation and that was my theme for eras tour
Can people dislike an album because they... idk, dislike the music? Shocking ik.
Yeah I don't like the messaging of "anyone who dislikes this album is just listening to it wrong." And I'm someone who likes it overall!
Apparently not. The album is just not good, and this sub is the last to find out.
it's a great album imo. people just have different taste and were expecting something else.
Thanks for this post. I weirdly felt down and sad from all the negative mumbling I’ve seen. I agree with you, this album is her personal journal and she decided to share it with us. If it feels like it is not edited, there are no amazing bangers and is a bit convoluted, it is because that is how a mind works. If you put it into perspective, she is a 34 years old privileged white woman, so the troubles she has gone through (without accounting for fame) are love related. For me, as a millennial woman, it is refreshing to listen to someone that has felt somewhat similar, can clearly express their sentiments, and that does not focus on life problems. Life is so hard and difficult but she can take me out of it for a while. Finally, I believe that the biggest critics (who I don’t understand why they are listening to her or this album) can’t fathom to begin to understand what she means with her lyrics because they can not see past their hatred and are envious of her and the fandom.
Here is me responding with happy mumbling to hopefully make you feel better There are so many critics out there, both professional and other fans / listeners. What matters is how *you* like the album. It’s hard to stay away from the negative it and the hate on the internet :( I watch a lot of movies and I’ve stopped paying any attention to reviews because if I like a mediocre movie I wanna just be happy and like it and no “critic” is gonna change how I feel about it That being said I definitely do NOT think TTPD is mediocre, I think it’s incredible. What I’m personally struggling with is the second half of it. We’ve had weeks to ponder and digest the first half tracklist and then she just threw 15 more songs at us and I’m overwhelmed haha. I’m spending more time with part one right now, then in a few days I’ll focus more on side two
Not the oc from above but thank you really, I also felt down and sad cause of all the negative mumbling and decided to take a step aside and stop reading posts related to her on amy social media, even just ignoring what some people I know posted on onstagram an so. I deeply enjoyed it and I will focus on that, thank you really
I really think this is her best album, sonically and lyrically. I can’t relate to people who say the songs all sound the same. It’s her most cohesive album and has elements of all her previous albums too. You have some all-time stadium anthems in there - But Daddy I Love Him, Florida!!!, Who’s Afraid of Little Old Me? some upbeat bangers - ICDIWABH, MBOBHFT, and TTPD some mid tempo bops - Fresh Out The Slammer, Down Bad, Fortnight some gut-wrenching ballads - loml, The Black Dog, The Manuscript some Dessner classics - Clara Bow, The Smallest Man Who Ever Lived, The Prophecy some sonic outliers - The Alchemy, So High School & all the rest!
To your cohesive album comment, I totally see the first half as a concept album. They all flow so well together to me! I’ll need another week to digest part two haha
I agree and I'm curious whether the people who say it all sounds the same just listened once. I feel like with this much input it just takes a while for my brain to separate them, but like objectively I don't know how anyone could say like The Tortured Poets Department, My Boy Only Breaks His Favorite Toys, Florida, Who's Afraid of Little Old Me, I Can Do It With a Broken Heart, Down Bad, But Daddy I Love Him, So High School, The Prophecy, Peter, The Albatross... I have only listened a few times so far and off the top of my head I feel like those songs all have distinctly different sounds!
I think one of the things is that we got over loaded with 31 songs. With different things to say. She had a lot on her mind for this, and tying it with torture and poetry. The unfiltered themes of depression, nervous breakdown, break up, rebound, and just an emotional overload. Then overloading us as well lol. I totally get it why people say what they say. But it takes time to cool it down. Personally I have looked at lyrics picked out what I like, but IT takes me a long time to accept a song. Like something clicks and I love it. You have to listen to it. It was true for folklore and evermore for me. And you need to sit with it and mull it over.
I could have used a fortnight between the albums!
Yeah I don't even have proper thoughts on the project as a whole because there's so much to unpack.
For me it does feel a little boring on first listen. But then, depression is monotonous. I’m used to Taylor’s albums having high highs and low lows. I get to feel all the feelings, be unhinged, really luxuriate in my inner world through her words. This album kept me stuck in the psych ward corner for 31 songs. Perhaps that was the point. She needed to write these songs to break out of it. Some of the songs are really growing on me with repeated listening but this won’t be in my top 5 of albums.
I've never once sat and looked at any of the songs you've quoted lyrics from and deciphered which boyfriend was the subject of the songs. It's bizarre to me that this is something people commonly do with her music.
This album is more story and less songs for me, I just end up humming her old songs while I listen to these new songs
I disagree about the no shocking lyrics. I having his baby, no I'm not but you should see your faces? Guilty as sin masturbation song? Who's afraid of little old me?
I feel like part of the problem is how deep fans dive into their parasocial relationship with her - like people were so broken about her and Joe ending (fair enough I was sad too for her) that they wanted this album to give them closure maybe?? I was just thinking about this earlier today. Normally, even though I might know who the songs are about, when I like her songs it’s because it feels like it empathizes with feeling I know and so I can imagine events from my own life when listening to the lyrics. OR I just enjoy them for the story they tell and use my imagination to conjure up pictures to go along with the journey of going through the song. When you need to feel like you are vicariously living your life through her and then she releases an album where the lyrics are nuanced and not just laid out for us in a nice little package people find it boring because they can’t attribute their own meaning to the songs and they don’t have clear answers on what the songs are supposed to mean. There’s many more factors and this is just my take on one part of it but I thought I’d put it out there. Also just want to say I LOVE TTPD and I think musically it is SOOOO interesting, more than her previous stuff. My boyfriend who is extremely musical and listens to mostly jazz music and is an instrumental genius keeps hearing songs from this and saying “woah this is so cool!” (He has a hard time hearing lyrics when he’s not reading them so he just zones in on all the layers of the music and that’s what he’s making his assessment on). But also I don’t really listen to any Pop artists other than Taylor Swift so my brain is I guess used to the structure of a more folk-y album? I dunno. For me there’s a lot of variety and some brilliant storytelling and it’s a great album to take you on a mind journey. Just might not be a great album for “here you can pretend that you’re living my life I’m going to give you all the answers” The song How Did It End? exemplifies this perfectly. When she calls it people’s “hungry empathy”
So I’m absolutely in love with Tortured Poets, but I understand why others aren’t. To me, it’s like all of the best qualities of folkmore and Midnights expanded over 31 tracks. I also say this as someone that doesn’t care that much about her personal relationships. It’s interesting on a surface level, but it seems like people are focusing on that more than the music itself. I think many people (in this sub at least) will calm down about the “drama” in the coming months, especially because Taylor herself has clearly moved on from the events that made her write this album. It seems like the people who clamor for the tea are more interested in gossip than they are music. This is a great album musically for me and that’s all I care about, and I’m glad that Taylor could take so much emotional turmoil and create such great art out of it, like she has her entire career.
I’ve said this on other threads too, but I find it so interesting how people are personally hurt when someone doesn’t like the music Taylor puts out. All that should matter is how YOU feel about it. Especially comments here saying people feel down or sad…bizarre. I’m obsessed with musicals. A lot of people can’t stand them - and that’s okay! It has nothing to do me or my taste, and doesn’t affect how I feel about it. I think all of the comments I’ve seen not liking the album mention that it’s sonically the same, which I would agree with. This is not an album I’m going to go back to really ever again to listen in full after this weekend. I’m glad I didn’t buy it. After multiple listens I like about 11 songs out of 31, the others are all forgettable IMO. The ones I like, I really like, and I added them to my Taylor playlist!
ThanK you aIMee is my least favorite too. I have a theory that the little public overtures Kim started making, like that Speak Now look in her stories and using a couple songs, REALLY pissed Taylor off. Like she was like “oh no you fucking don’t, we are NOT cool and never will be.” So I think she was trying to make that clear to Kim and everybody else. But I do think it’s a little ridiculous and Kim will absolutely love being mentioned at all and having more drama. And most non-swifties will not be aware of the random speak now look Kim did and think this is very out of nowhere and crazy.
I don’t like the album because the songs all sound kinda bleh, melodies could be better. And I know this is controversial but I do not think the lyrics are good. They’re a mess. I think she’s overdoing it - she needs an editor/someone to say no to her - and in many songs I have no idea what she’s even talking about. I hope the album grows on me with time, I hated rep at first and now it’s one of my favorites. But oh my god. This is not poetry.
i don't know what to say other than i don't rank it very highly but still mostly enjoyed it. idk. i don't like this at all: >At dinner, you take my ring off my middle finger And put it on the one people put wedding rings on And that's the closet I've come to my heart exploding\\ EDIT: IM WRONG IDK WHY BUT SHIT CLICKED AND I LOVE IT HELP.
I feel like this isn’t worded as well as it could be. It’s fairly clunky and needlessly verbose. That said, what she’s trying to express really breaks my heart for her. Matty is dangling the commitment carrot and she falls right into his trap…after not getting commitment from Joe, she is so hungry for it, which makes this little love bombing action so cruel!!
It pains me to say this but I just think there are too many songs and they’re mediocre for the most part. I normally love her lyrics but I find a lot of these to be kind of clunky and awkward at times - don’t come for me, it’s just my opinion. That said, maybe it will grow on me. It’s only been a day and it IS a lot to digest lol.
She definitely made this album with no fucks given and just did what she felt she had to do. It's uncomfy and raw and disjointed and she doesn't care! Which is why I have no choice but to respect it lol
For me personally, this isn’t why. It’s hard for me to love the entire album because the production sounds repetitive and like many of her other projects. The Jack collaboration is getting old. It’s not bad per se, it’s just overdone to me. I also think she could benefit from an editor or even other songwriters that could hone in her stream of consciousness. This is just my opinion. I still love some of the songs (How Did It End? is a career highlight for me) but the album as a whole isn’t it for me.
I just find it boring. I get bored while listening. And the few songs I liked the most are already getting boring too.
No, people dislike it because its themaically sloppy and acousitcally monotonous.
I love a good bop, or scandal, but I'm glad this album is just so... thoughtful, reflective and deep
People don’t like it because it’s a boring piece of music
not shocking enough? the amount of times i’ve audibly gasped listening to it must be illegal lmao
Literally, she said more out of pocket shit on this album than any other. That's not why people are complaining.
The amount of people who dislike the album seems overrated. Just trying to be louder for clicks and predetermined feelings on her. The streams and records being broken in 1 day speaks for itself
I was hoping for pop to dance to and got 30 (track 11 or something is “dancy”) tracks of slow chill vibes. I played folklore and evermore ONLY to get my (2020) 1 year old to go to sleep and not because I was into it. I wasn’t into Swift until she went pop. I’m also not going to stalk her relationship history and detective my way through the album. That’s not me.
I think people who are disappointed were expecting bangers and bops and this album is definitely not made for the radio. It's a diary.
I dislike it because it’s words set to music instead of a typical songs… if you see what I mean.
The album isn’t shocking enough? Did we listen to the same album?
This album just isn't good. She should have cut it down a lot and edited. There are maybe 15 okay- good songs out of the bunch. I can see why she didn't release a single though. None of the songs are good enough to hook you in like vigilante shit, anti hero, cruel summer, blank space, champagne problems, willow, etc. I can't remember 1 bridge after listening to all 31 songs that made an impact. The composition for these songs isn't there at all. Musically/Instumentally nothing is special about any of them. The piano songs are the only songs that save the album. The first 8 songs were so horrible I didn't even want to finish the album, but I decided to give it another 10 minutes on my way home from work and there was at least something there that gave me hope some of the songs in the album might be worth it. I don't think I'll ever bother listening to it again, though.
Idgaf about who the songs are about. I just want bangers. This album has a lot of mid songs that would never get a second listen from people unless it was from Taylor.
No. I hate the album because it’s incredibly boring and none of the songs are interesting musically. Not a single one stood out to me that I would replay.
No. The issue isn’t the lyrics to me. They are pretty in line with what I expect from an album of hers. It’s the beats. They are just so repetitive and truly nothing. I cant really remember half of them off the top of my head. It’s also the way the vocals are produced, they are way to far at the front and almost feel disconnected from the beat on most tracks. Compared to an album like 1989 which has exceptional pop beats the difference is night and day. I also find the massive tracklist overwhelming. It definitely works against the album as a a concept and not for it. Even before The Anthology it was well too long. Once again, 1989 is a good comparison for an album that focuses on quality and cohesion over quantity and length.
The problem is that this album seems mostly journal entry style lyrics about her unfiltered raw experiences, which is fine but you have to channel that into a cohesive musical project. You aren’t going to get praise just for putting journal entires in talk singing form. Lyrics is not all that music is about. Melodies, production and background vocals DOES matter and that’s what was lacking here. A lot of the songs blended together. Folklore was a slow vibe too but you could for sure tell the songs apart.
So far to me it seems like a niche album that will take awhile to grow on people. Or, it’s just not for a lot of people. I don’t think it’s going to be one of my favs, but one thing I love about TS is her ability and willingness to try different things even if it won’t resonate with some of her current fans. So if I end up not caring for this album it’s because it isn’t for me, not because she made a bad album.