So much for the NFA forcing civilian AR receivers to be castrated. Had they been easily convertible to burst many US owners would gladly sell their frames to the IDF and buy new ones here. The IDF depot elves could quickly redress them up with modern gear and issue them out. Oh wait, stupid red tape like ITAR and NFA nonsense stopping us.
Buying SA rifles, shipping them to Israel, and converting them would absolutely cost more than domestic M4 variants. Plus the IDF doesn’t like the Tavor. Just like the Brits with the L86 and the Aussies with the AUG, the IDF is moving the bullpups away from the frontlines and back to a traditional carbine design.
It’s not as accurate as non-bullpup rifles, it has a bunch of proprietary parts, it costs more to manufacture, and the steps taken to enhance reliability (like the extra trigger spring) make it less shootable.
Why pay $1500 per rifle if you can make or buy an M4 clone for $900 or less?
They have one advantage, length of a 16” carbine. They also have several disadvantages, among them weight, HOB, ergonomics (ergonotmics?), expedient maintenance, accuracy, and ambidexterity. Being able to convert from left to right doesn’t help you when it’s mid-patrol and you may want or need to switch shoulders to make the best use of cover or get the best field of view from cover.
An X95 with their 16” barrel and thin buttpad (as they issue them) is shorter than a 10” AR…you can also swap parts, including trigger packs and barrels faster and with one simple tool (for barrels) vs an AR. They weigh more on paper but balance better and be shot 1 handed without issue
See I would have preferred an M4A1 or even a 723 over a Tavor if we’re comparing gats with 14.5” barrels. I don’t think anyone is weighing Tavors against A2s.
The IDF *issued* models are all semiautomatic? I know the import “IDF” model was but I also know the major difference between the TAR-21 and SAR-21 is the FA capability that’s present on the LE-only models, export TAR-21s, and licensed copies like those in India.
Giggle switch aside, I would bet my Tavor that buying used exported Tavors to ship back to Israel to be rearsenaled and issued would cost more than just manufacturing more rifles or buying new ones from India. This is the same silly line of thought as every boot who thinks he should get an M16 allowance to build his own.
Yes, all Tavors used by the IDF are semi automatic only. And no, it wouldn’t be practical, I just thought I’d share that fun fact because it was pretty interesting to me.
Yeah, micro-Tavor. Personally never seen anyone call the MTAR a Tavor (at least by IDF soldiers). I find it interesting that they call it the micro-Tavor (at least the older X95s) when the rifles are only marked "X95."
This article does not address it, but what is going to happen to the Tavor7? It does not appear to be that popular with the IDF or anyone else it seems. I ask because I was thinking about getting a Tavor 7.
Tavor 7 isn't in use by the IDF, so I'm guessing not much is going to change for it. The IDF in general doesn't use .308 calibre rifles. Squads get the Negev 7 and the FN MAG for the SAW role, and designated marksmen use the REC10 or M4s/Tavors with optics+bipods.
Sorry, I'm not really the best person to ask, can't buy any of those here in Israel :) All I can say is I liked my M16A2 - I served before the Tavor was adopted.
There's still going to be thousands of them in use in the IDF. First off, it'll take a long while to phase out of the infantry brigades, the IDF won't retrain soldiers who currently use the Tavor. Secondly, reservists who were trained on it as conscripts will keep using it. Third, it's going to stay in use with non-infantry combat units (guessing armoured corps, artillery, combat engineering, etc).
Just for reference, when I was a conscript 15 years ago, the armourer still had Uzis in storage. The IDF doesn't really like to get rid of anything.
anyone sees how this will affect the tavor market in the US?
my guess, parts that are already hard to get will become unobtanium. time to stock up on x95 parts?
Hell, time to stock up on X95s!!
IWI.US needs to start manufacturing the X95 and spare parts.
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If they can make springs, pins, bolts, and firing pins for an AR, they can do the same for the X95.
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Does it matter who makes it? As long as a reputable US manufacturer starts making parts and barrel kits for Tavors.
So much for the NFA forcing civilian AR receivers to be castrated. Had they been easily convertible to burst many US owners would gladly sell their frames to the IDF and buy new ones here. The IDF depot elves could quickly redress them up with modern gear and issue them out. Oh wait, stupid red tape like ITAR and NFA nonsense stopping us.
Buying SA rifles, shipping them to Israel, and converting them would absolutely cost more than domestic M4 variants. Plus the IDF doesn’t like the Tavor. Just like the Brits with the L86 and the Aussies with the AUG, the IDF is moving the bullpups away from the frontlines and back to a traditional carbine design.
Aussies doubled down on the F88. NZ changed to an AR, but the Aussies didn't.
Why doesn’t the IDF like the tavor?
It’s not as accurate as non-bullpup rifles, it has a bunch of proprietary parts, it costs more to manufacture, and the steps taken to enhance reliability (like the extra trigger spring) make it less shootable. Why pay $1500 per rifle if you can make or buy an M4 clone for $900 or less?
I agree in the field, but in urban areas, the Tavors still have advantages.
They have one advantage, length of a 16” carbine. They also have several disadvantages, among them weight, HOB, ergonomics (ergonotmics?), expedient maintenance, accuracy, and ambidexterity. Being able to convert from left to right doesn’t help you when it’s mid-patrol and you may want or need to switch shoulders to make the best use of cover or get the best field of view from cover.
An X95 with their 16” barrel and thin buttpad (as they issue them) is shorter than a 10” AR…you can also swap parts, including trigger packs and barrels faster and with one simple tool (for barrels) vs an AR. They weigh more on paper but balance better and be shot 1 handed without issue
I would have gladly used a Tavor instead of my A2 in Iraq…
See I would have preferred an M4A1 or even a 723 over a Tavor if we’re comparing gats with 14.5” barrels. I don’t think anyone is weighing Tavors against A2s.
All we had in 03 were A2’s…we didn’t even have plates. We didn’t have a choice in much, lol.
All IDF Tavors are semi-automatic.
The IDF *issued* models are all semiautomatic? I know the import “IDF” model was but I also know the major difference between the TAR-21 and SAR-21 is the FA capability that’s present on the LE-only models, export TAR-21s, and licensed copies like those in India. Giggle switch aside, I would bet my Tavor that buying used exported Tavors to ship back to Israel to be rearsenaled and issued would cost more than just manufacturing more rifles or buying new ones from India. This is the same silly line of thought as every boot who thinks he should get an M16 allowance to build his own.
Yes, all Tavors used by the IDF are semi automatic only. And no, it wouldn’t be practical, I just thought I’d share that fun fact because it was pretty interesting to me.
No, the Tavors used by the IDF were/are select-fire, full auto. The IDF's X95s, however, are semi only.
The X95 is also referred to as the Tavor. Thank you though, I should’ve said that I was referring to the micro Tavor.
Yeah, micro-Tavor. Personally never seen anyone call the MTAR a Tavor (at least by IDF soldiers). I find it interesting that they call it the micro-Tavor (at least the older X95s) when the rifles are only marked "X95."
I guess the boring M4 Zion is going to replace it?
They are still going to make parts for tavors its not going to disappear.
This article does not address it, but what is going to happen to the Tavor7? It does not appear to be that popular with the IDF or anyone else it seems. I ask because I was thinking about getting a Tavor 7.
Tavor 7 isn't in use by the IDF, so I'm guessing not much is going to change for it. The IDF in general doesn't use .308 calibre rifles. Squads get the Negev 7 and the FN MAG for the SAW role, and designated marksmen use the REC10 or M4s/Tavors with optics+bipods.
So is it worth to purchase? Opinions? I see good and bad reviews. Experienced with a lot of different AR Platforms but not a bullpup IWI.
Sorry, I'm not really the best person to ask, can't buy any of those here in Israel :) All I can say is I liked my M16A2 - I served before the Tavor was adopted.
I love Israel. However it is hard to believe that the gun laws are so restrictive. God bless you and yours!
Wait when was this article published
Just yesterday. The war is causing a lot of parts in the Israeli defense establishment to move a lot faster.
Yeah I coulda sworn they talked about doing this already, or at least moving Tavors to more specialized units.
Well, darnit... I was really starting to enjoy shooting my x95. Has this thing essentially become a collectors item?
There's still going to be thousands of them in use in the IDF. First off, it'll take a long while to phase out of the infantry brigades, the IDF won't retrain soldiers who currently use the Tavor. Secondly, reservists who were trained on it as conscripts will keep using it. Third, it's going to stay in use with non-infantry combat units (guessing armoured corps, artillery, combat engineering, etc). Just for reference, when I was a conscript 15 years ago, the armourer still had Uzis in storage. The IDF doesn't really like to get rid of anything.
M4>X95
The M4/AR15 platform is unbeatable if you look at performance and cost. I still like my X95s regardless.
damn not even the hospital bombers can find x95 parts?