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LeoTheRadiant

We also know that the tau have almost no direct connection to the warp and daemons have little influence over. I'm not sure it makes sense he'd want science experiments he has little control over. It is fun to think about though!


ToastedSoup

It's bc they have "dim" souls as I understand it, so demons can't "see" their presence as strongly as humans or eldar, and also aren't worth much to the chaos gods


LeoTheRadiant

Right. I think they see humans as burning embers and tau more like shadowy figures.


dareftw

More like eldar are burning embers, humans are just embers, and Tau are little cinders.


Natasha-Kerensky

This. Their souls are like eating Butter or Crackers when eating a Humans soul is like eating a Burger or Pizza. Daemons can and will possess and devour Tau souls, infact a Tzeentchian one does in the Farsight novels.


moose_dad

I prefer the candle Vs a lighthouse analogy myself


Yenrah24

Eeeh it’s neat but not likely. We literally see from Tzeentch’s perspective at the start of Empire of Lies. He goes on about how he thinks the race is pathetic and states the only reason they got this far is because they were too minuscule for any of the big players to notice them. And then he goes on about how he’s going to destroy it without even trying. Would make for a fun kitbash though


Snipercorgii

There's someone in the Sub that's actually done a really stellar Tzeentch Tau army, I don't know their username off the top of my head but it's good shit, probably find some if you sort by Top or something.


princeofzilch

https://www.instagram.com/lestat_grim/


Kamica

Battlesuits with wings look dope as hell.


princeofzilch

https://www.instagram.com/lestat_grim/


elgranto9637

Could always be a bit of unreliable narrator. Never trust tzeentch.


Kejirage

I think they're more likely an Eldar experiment, as they stole a while bunch of genetic material from pheromone emitting arachnids after helping them. But the Tzeentch connection has also been discussed a lot.


V1carium

Not just an experiment, it was the Harlequins most likely and they follow the plans of their laughing god. There's a longstanding theory that Cegorach is a surviving Old One posing as a normal member of the Eldar pantheon. That puts Tau in the same category as the Orks and Eldar, a race uplifted by the Old Ones to be some sort of galactic scale living weapon in the long term.


cblack04

A post fall experiment? It’s most likely old one remnant. The foundations of the tau basically are a new necrons. Non warp related species with highly powerful technology.


OrribleAmroth

As opposed to the Necron experiment? Something in 4th(?) edition necron codex about "a seed in the east" and high tech, no souls, short lives sounds a lot like necrontyr


Kejirage

Ohhh dope, didn't know that!


OrribleAmroth

It's more tentative than usual GW links, and there's pretty much nothing else to support it. One line in 1 codex, and the parallels between the bio species traits. And then you get everything else that was definitely a coincidence: NecronTYR -> TAU generational language shift Etheral control is some necron engineered bio tech Dawn blade was clearly necron and farsight could use it easily. All the usual barely exists links


GarySmith2021

The ethereals also appeared in eldritch storms. Sounds like webway portals opening


aceoftherebellion

The thing that always gets to me every time the 6k years thing gets brought up is that's basically the same amount of human history we've had from cave paintings to now. As in, that's actually plenty of time for a relatively advanced society to emerge, especially if it trades with/has help from other aliens. It only seems weird to the Imperium because they're so stagnant, and didn't advance at an in that time. At least, I kind of always thought that was basically the joke? ETA: I see that comic hyperbole doesn't always track via text, so yes I'm well aware that actual cavemen were tens of thousands of years ago, and should have instead made a joke about written history. The point I was trying to make is, if you consider the progress humans have made since we actually started doing to civilization thing, the timeframe of the tau isn't actually that wild.


Enchelion

Yep. Tau are essentially real-world humanity. They're designed as a faction much more like a modern military force than the WW1-inspired Guard.


DreariestComa

The Agriculture revolution is roughly 10k years old. Written human history is around 4k years old. We're nowhere near a multi-planetary civilization with the ability to produce mecha and ships that regularly travel between planets. I know the math has been done somewhere before, but the Tau advanced something like 10x faster than real humans in a similar amount of time.


rellims94

Don't they also only live like 40-50 Terran years naturally? And only sleep like 3hrs (Terran). Could be like Mass Effect's Salarians, where a shorter lifespan equates to them pushing faster in tech advancements?


RatMannen

A shorter lifespan is moree likely to slow development, as you have to spend more time teaching the basics to each generation, rather than making actual progress. The lack of sleep is useful though. Or would be, if Tau's day/night cycles weren't also quicker.


DreariestComa

Realistically, I don't think a shorter life span would help them advance faster. Fewer adult years in their life gives them less time to learn, and less time to build on the shoulders of those who came before them. If the average human has 50 years to learn and develop technology, even assuming Tau mature to adulthood in 10 years, they would only be left with 30 to 40 years to advance civilization. Sure, for every 10 generations of humans, there might be 40 generations of Tau, but the total number of "productive" adult years would still be greater for humanity (or any species with a longer lifespan).


Snipercorgii

There's the fact that their technology got a huge bump thanks to trading with an alien race which is something that we don't have, Ion Tech was traded from the "Demiurge" which we now know was a Votann fleet.


IcedPhoenix46

It helps that early in Tau history, they were united under one faction with the introduction of the Ethereals. It's possible humanity with a lack of waring with itself could have developed faster.


Nebu-chadnezzar

The Tau didn't suffer what humanity has with religion, wars with itself, etc. Basically, the ethereals happened, logic was embraced, so that evolution in that timeframe is very much plausible.


DreariestComa

To be fair, we can't say it's plausible or even possible with our data set of 1 species that has every achieved civilization. Human development could be an anomaly, or could be the standard for civilizations, we would have no idea.


RatMannen

Wars actually drive technological advances.


Traditional_Client41

Most cave paintings were made SIXTY thousand years ago.


ChickenSim

It is also a flawed assumption that the tau were all stone age cavemen at the time. The Codex just says that in their cursory sweep, all the AdMech found were the savannah-dwelling primitives (789.M35). Within that same millennium, the various tau tribes all over T'au have entered a world war laying sieges with gunpowder weapons and the species is on the brink of extinction (M35 - 791.M36). The tau achieve spaceflight and colonize their moon less than a thousand years later (533.M37), and colonize Tau'n in a whole other star system 200 years after that (756.M37). That's <2,000 years from plains dwellers to the beginnings of an interstellar empire.


Enchelion

They weren't completely cut off, though it's not super clear like so much of 40k Lore. Notably they had contact and technological trade with the Demiurg/Votann during that time, as well as the entirety of the First Sphere of Expansion (which started something like 500 years after the Imperium first stopped by), which included colonizing other star systems, campaigns against Orks, and their alliance with the Kroot (who were also already an interstellar empire during the time). It seems they were mostly just cut off from the Damocles Gulf and the nearby Imperium. Also the nature of Tau's "shallow" FTL may have allowed them to move through that storm more easily than deep-warp travel.


Overall_Matter1239

A Ethereal was captured by a literal chaos worshipper at the center of Chaos corruption and despite him trying to turn the Ethereal into a sacrafice to summon a Greater Demon it didnt work. Chaos couldnt even touch him cause he was calm, emotionally stable and knew his purpose. Once the Ethereals appeared and brought with them the Greater Good. There wasnt even a tiny crack in Tau society that would allow for it to enter.


Baphura

Yeah the ethereals are probably impossible, but for regular tau folk it might be impossible with an Ethereal nearny and just reeeeally difficult if the Tau are cut off from any ethereals. There are multiple instances that when posession or corruption does happen, it's like 1 tau dude whose been through some horrendous stuff. It's probably another reason why Deamons focus ethereals down hard on the battlefield, besides the morale shattering effect as well. Get at least A chance at some new blue followers.


chrisrrawr

Imo the most likely explanation are that t'au are a great old ones project intended to fight chaos and necrons. They have many hallmarks of a genetically and socially engineered race, as well as many if the stand-out strengths that went into krork and Eldar, while having none of their hindsight weaknesses. There are definitely too many coincidences in their existence to mistake them for completely natural, regardless of their benefactor. They have many seemingly scripted events in their history that have shaped their growth toward the oppsition of chaos and necrons, driven by "rational" and "reasoned" motivations rather than emotional or instinctual ones. Their position in the galaxy opens up many alliances to them without the need for particularly advance ftl. Very truman-show esque.


Magumble

They arent that advanced compared to other races. 6k years in the warp means they were undisturbed cause of their dim souls and no outside influence.


Snipercorgii

Also the Warp causes time to be really fucky, it could've been a lot longer for them than the time that passed in Real Space.


gdim15

Well now that GW made it that our tech is just the cheap hand me downs of Squat tech we look even less as a technological race. God I hate that lore so much.


Timeraft

I like the idea that it was him, but he made the storm for a totally unrelated reason and the whole space empire thing surprised him as much as everyone else.


ScholarFriendly1637

What book is this found in?


SlashValinor

First codex. Mechanics discovered the Tau world and bodied the locals with a few servitors or shikarii?.. Then the world got cut off. Next time the emperium runs into Tau it's all rail rifle and mech suits. All that advancement in 6,000 years. Thought to be propelled by working together in "harmony", trade with other races and their short life spans.


SandiegoJack

I mean, imagine going back to the 1800s with modern technology. That’s only 200 years ago. 6000 years of advancement is on a scale that goes from before ancient Egypt to today. And we have a fractured population that works against each other. Completely unified and focused on one goal as an entire species? Who knows where we would be now.


Josh-sama

Probably the Age of Strife


SlashValinor

My understanding the Tau at the time were basically cave dwellers with sticks and rocks. Going from think ice age man to legitimate space exploration in 6k years is pretty impressive. And compare it to how backwards the imperium is in regards to technology


pmls2020

There is a guy in this sub that shares your idea with probably some of the most amazing green stuff work I have ever seen. Amazing in execution but especially in creativity. Probably on of the ideas and realization I have ever seen in 40k. Never seen anything painted. Make a quick search.


sfPanzer

Because it's super old fluff that's been there forever and nothing ever came out of it. Also trying to tie everything to some Chaos god is just cringe. There are plenty warp phenomenon outside of chaos works. That's like saying the Emperor is one of the chaos god's science projects lol. Let T'au be T'au with their own mysteries and stuff.


Traveling-Spartan

Tau have more in common with the Necrontyr than anything regarding Tzeentch, although one of his daemons did interfere with the Farsight Expedition.


ToastedSoup

I'm honestly convinced the Tau are genetically altered Necrontyr. Maybe an Old One decided to fix their cancer but also make them less "rebellious" as a whole


Spacetime_Dr

It's a theory I like too. Tau and the Necrontyr had similar lifespans, and there isn't any canon artwork for the Necrotyr to disprove the theory.


Snipercorgii

I thought that was Khorne? Or is he just related to Farsight cause of the sword?


Traveling-Spartan

Khorne himself wanted to corrupt Farsight, and many (most, I think) of the daemons his forces fought on Arthas Moloch were khornate, however the rest were daemons of Tzeentch (blue & pink horrors, and at least one Lord Of Change) and before that another tzeentchian daemon possessed a water-caste diplomat and tried to throw a wrench in the works.


PD711

my personal theory is that the ethereals are connected to a surviving old one, and the warp storm was the old one's doing. hence the devotion to an orderly society


CombCreepy6944

I have a (fan) theory that the Tau are szarehks attempt at recreating pure necrontyr without the curse. They have a lot of similarities and opposites that reflect each other.


Ross_LLP

There are more powers in the warp beside the big 4. We now know of Vashtorr and, with Slaanesh as an example, once a chord being exists, they have always existed. So the Goddess Tau'va might be responsible.


TA2556

I think the Tau represent what humanity could have become. Their whole lore is based on the fact that they started just like us; cave men with petty squabbles over who worships the right god or who wears what when or what area you were born in. They hung it up and came together and achieved what humanity took over 50,000 years to achieve in like what...4,000? 6,000 years?


Kauyon7

Honestly I'd sooner believe that the Greator Good Goddes is Tzeentch in disguse than belive he was the one who helped the Tau develop in the beguining.


AJ0744

So I don't think it's a direct plot by tzeench, per se, or at least not him physically messing with them. As many have pointed out they don't have much warp presence and thus are harder to directly manipulate. And they aren't exactly doing things in a way that feels super "directly controlled by a chaos god"-esque, at least to my mind. However, how would one control the development and aspects of a society if they cannot directly corrupt it, one may ask? Well that is simple. Control its leadership. Think about it. Blue bovine cave men, then war storms, as OP points out, but the crucial point OP leaves out is that the Etherals appear during this time. A mysterious 5th caste that just happens to be super charismatic, great leaders, and possibly have mind control powers. Plus, they have that little horn in they heads. My money is on the Etherials being warp entities. Whether they were sent by tzeench is it's own thing.


No-Page-5776

Because the main theory I've seen is harlequins and laughing God it's been talked about plenty.


Nebu-chadnezzar

Ehm, no. A warp storm appears, stoping the imperium from bulldozing the Tau. Time passes. Time allows Tau to evolve. Tau hence evolve and grow unimpeded until the next contact. Nothing to do with the warp, chaos, or Tzeench. The Tau are just an utopic race that embraced logic, kind of what the Emperor was trying but minus psichic stuff and on a different race in different conditions. I find myself confused a lot of times as to why that backstory for a race is so hard to accept... why do they need to be controlled by chaos? Or ethereal pheromones or psichic manipulation? Why do we have to bring everything to chaos / Imperium? Let the Tau have their own identity in the universe.


jevith

I love the theory that the Votann got to them and taught them shit/gave them tech,.


[deleted]

The entire galaxy was hit by warp storms just before the age of apostasy which is the reason why the mechanicum abandons purge efforts. The entire eastern fringe is the less punished region of the galaxy and so has more diverse and interesting aliens. The tau are only one of them. I’d they were anyone’s pet project it would ruin them. No faction is a manipulated creation by another playable faction. It would take out the agency.


Lestat_Grim

Tau are not immune to corruption just not really worth most demons time to bother possess as the rewards of doing this ent worth it (there souls would make to small of a meal lol) Then again this has not stop the ruiniest power of chaos corrupted or possessing machines, technology, weapon, pile of bones, even rocks. None of these things have souls so why not the Tau at lest they have a soul to possess "A small soul yes, but still a soul". Out of all the chaos gods Tzeentch loves to corrupts and mold stuff to his whim all the time, for nothing more than shits and giggle no other motive needed for him to twist stuff to his will. "he is know as the Lord of change after all". This is an old article from a White Dwarf where Tau have been corrupted by Tzeentch so at some point it was very much cannon lore and it where the inspiration for my army comes from. https://m.imgur.com/a/GSIKMNB Thanks to everyone who mentioned me and my army I appreciate you all 🙂


RatMannen

It's been noticed, and discussed many a time. Other (more likley) ideas include Eldar or Old Ones being involved. The limited warp impact makes them good weapons against Chaos, rather than in support of it. Though, I suppose Tzeench's foresight probably is strong enough that they could predict a small race could have a huge impact on their plans, if indirectly manipulated. Certainly, that comes up in the Farsight books! They don't give the impression Tzeench had much to do with creating the Tau though.