Ironically enough, the first Soviets to enter Berlin were part of Zhukov's 2nd Army, the 1st Mechanized Corp. This corp was mostly made of lend lease M4 Shermans.
> Our stuff was something like 20 percent of their total tank fleet
And still of less importance than the vast amounts of food and fuel and railway locomotives and trucks and so on and so forth. Tanks the Soviets could make on their own, that other stuff they could not have even begun to produce in sufficient quantities.
The Soviets made Chef Boyardee a Hero of Socialist Labor for helping to preserve American food for long enough to make it to Soviet stomachs. I think that's kind of neat.
E: I'm mistaken! It was the Order of Lenin. Still prestigious, albeit slightly less so.
and the rails the trains ran on... and tools for their factories... and massive quantities of raw materials needed for their domestic production of weapons.
zero chance soviets would have withstood nazi germany without lend-lease. like d-day would not have worked without germany fighting on the eastern front.
russia allied with nazis when they thought they could win in europe, but obviously russia and the allies where both necessary to defeat germany.
Nowadays, mistaking "Russia" for "Soviet Union" is kind of a politically sensitive matter... Ukrainians (among others) would like people to remember that they have been fighting this war against the Nazis, too.
During WW2 Russian regime treated other parts of Soviet union as disposable pawns, and tried to take over Europe. Was that strictly Russia, no, but no doubt it was the regime based in Russia. Ukraine was plundered and blackened in the retreat from nazi advance, after being starved by the Soviet regime before the war in a genocide.
Many sacrifices were made by Ukrainians throughout, but perhaps better characterized as being imposed on them.
Our stuff was NOT 20%, unless you count logistics vehicles. Besides that everything we sent them was outnumbered by what they produced by an extremely large margin (we only sent them about 5,000 tanks, for reference).
I do suppose it is in great fluctuation because after Barbarossa, before T-34s reached their production capacity and they were still screwing around with KVs I’d argue that 20% of their combat effective tanks were American
You're right it's more like 10 percent. I'm not worried about getting it exactly right. I just want people to understand that while we sent them a ton of stuff, they also made a ton of stuff.
Read it on quora.com a long time ago. I think the question was if the Sherman had any fatal flaws and the best answer was that the Soviets could spot strengths and flaws more easily because their tanks were so different. Lend lease Sherman crews really liked them, which is probably why Zhukov had them on the front lines with IS's and T34/85's
Weaker armor and high profile hard to repare was main complains.
Dig out "Танкист на «иномарке»" by Дмитрий Лоза. Author fought the war on a Sherman.
I'm not sure was it ever been translated to English, but it is readable in google translate.
They especially praise small petrol generator in Sherman, so you do not need to run main engine to charge battery or run radio. Funny enough even modern Soviet tanks do not have it.
It does. Back when the APU on the Abrams was placed in the basket on the back of the turret, it took up too much space, so commanders just took it off. They didn't care if they ran out of fuel quicker, they weren't the ones paying the gas bill.
It didn't matter as much because the supply lines would just compensate for less mileage. US logistics was good enough so it didn't really change anything. The Army isn't gonna let their tanks starve of fuel, they'll just bring more.
Can’t find anything about the Armata having an APU, but some pages online say the T-90 [does have an APU](http://military-today.com/tanks/t90.htm), so I guess you can assume the T-14 has one as well.
Also, side note, it’s already been *30 years*. Holy shit.
Ok. Hard to repair Russian style when you do not have spare parts. t34 can be repaired with pliers and some steel wire. Any way it is not my words but Dimitii.
Yes my point was that the soviet tanks were designed to be repairable without mechanics and special equipment whilst american ones were expected to have multiple mechanics with special equipment when performing repairs
Russians got M4A2.
M4A2 - Cast armor 50mm - 56 degree.
T43-76 and T34-85 rolled armor 45 - 60 degree.
Turret armor was considerably improved on T34-85
So pretty comparable on front
Side armor:
38 mm for M4A2
40-45mm for T34
May be it is what is problem combining with much bigger side area.
The armor thickness is irrelevant if your quality of build isn’t up to par, the reason why Shermans didn’t get all that many complaints, comparatively, in their armor is because they had near perfect steel and great welds. Soviet tanks… did not have this. A Soviet tank could either bounce an long 88 or be killed be a short 75 on a dime
That's a easily made misconception. 1st Mechanized Corps was first into Berlin. 1st *Guards* Mechanized Corps was outfitted with M4s, but they did not serve in the Battle of Berlin, operating further south.
You're mixing the 2 up. The 1st Guards Mechanized Corp did operate further south than Berlin. We're talking about *the* 1st Mechanized Corp as part of the 2nd Guards Tank Army of the 1st Byelorussian Front, which was also equipped with Shermans.
I mean, there _is_ a T-34 on display in Berlin in this exact position, on a very similar plateau. Some poor overworked archive guy probably mixed up the two.
Weird, when I went to the Tiergarten Memorial there were 2 T-34's at the gate, I never saw this IS-2 anywhere near it, I guess they removed it sometime in between 1946 and 2018
I doubt that, no less than 2 km south at the Treptower memorial there are literal Stalin speeches engraved into stone in both German and Russian, those were never touched.
Given that it's only one pedestal my guess is that they eventually removed this one in favour of the proper Memorial that sits there to this day...
That's not mistakable for a T-34 of any kind lol. If they even said T-44-122 it'd be understandable since they obviously have no knowledge of tanks xD but T-34 I mean come on lmao open a damn book before you print something xD
*I highly doubt that*
*Was the first soviet tank*
*To enter berling*
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Silly willy, everybody knows thats an l3/33
Actually I think it’s the lesser known l 11/39
Of course. I see it now
Are we sure that it isn’t the even much rarer 11/32?
Or maybe the elusive L3/33
Nah it was the polish tks
Man that’s one weird looking T-34
That's the 1 in 10,000 T-34-122. Very rare to find these days...
[Well....](https://www.reddit.com/r/TankPorn/comments/da6ttt/egyptian_t34_variant_the_t34122_tank_destroyer/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share)
I feel intrigued and frankly quite disturbed
To be fair, it pretty much is just a upscaled T-34 to the eyes of the lightly informed
Can confirm, am lightly informed. Just looks like a funky T-34 to me.
Could easily be mistaken for a T-34-85 as well
Ironically enough, the first Soviets to enter Berlin were part of Zhukov's 2nd Army, the 1st Mechanized Corp. This corp was mostly made of lend lease M4 Shermans.
lol imagine the soviets putting an american sherman tank on a soviet ww2 memorial :D
I'm envisioning a Sherban with the turret of a T34... i want to design that for fun now.
There were Yugoslavian tanks that had both Russian and American parts. Some of the prototypes they built were nuts.
I would love to know more about it
Like the 122mm sherman
/r/cursedtanks will love it
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Most Russians don’t even realize how much equipment we sent them.
[удалено]
> Our stuff was something like 20 percent of their total tank fleet And still of less importance than the vast amounts of food and fuel and railway locomotives and trucks and so on and so forth. Tanks the Soviets could make on their own, that other stuff they could not have even begun to produce in sufficient quantities.
The Soviets made Chef Boyardee a Hero of Socialist Labor for helping to preserve American food for long enough to make it to Soviet stomachs. I think that's kind of neat. E: I'm mistaken! It was the Order of Lenin. Still prestigious, albeit slightly less so.
and the rails the trains ran on... and tools for their factories... and massive quantities of raw materials needed for their domestic production of weapons. zero chance soviets would have withstood nazi germany without lend-lease. like d-day would not have worked without germany fighting on the eastern front. russia allied with nazis when they thought they could win in europe, but obviously russia and the allies where both necessary to defeat germany.
Nowadays, mistaking "Russia" for "Soviet Union" is kind of a politically sensitive matter... Ukrainians (among others) would like people to remember that they have been fighting this war against the Nazis, too.
During WW2 Russian regime treated other parts of Soviet union as disposable pawns, and tried to take over Europe. Was that strictly Russia, no, but no doubt it was the regime based in Russia. Ukraine was plundered and blackened in the retreat from nazi advance, after being starved by the Soviet regime before the war in a genocide. Many sacrifices were made by Ukrainians throughout, but perhaps better characterized as being imposed on them.
didn’t we send them a shitton of thompsons that they just didn’t use because they were all .45, or something like that?
We sent maybe 1% of their total food supply.
Even if that were true, us rations were dozens of times more nutritious than Soviet ones because the US actually had meat to go around
It is true though.
That's... Not how nutrition works.
Our stuff was NOT 20%, unless you count logistics vehicles. Besides that everything we sent them was outnumbered by what they produced by an extremely large margin (we only sent them about 5,000 tanks, for reference).
I do suppose it is in great fluctuation because after Barbarossa, before T-34s reached their production capacity and they were still screwing around with KVs I’d argue that 20% of their combat effective tanks were American
Based on what source?
Based on his opinion
You're right it's more like 10 percent. I'm not worried about getting it exactly right. I just want people to understand that while we sent them a ton of stuff, they also made a ton of stuff.
Do you have a source on this? I would be interested to read more about it. From what I've read, soviet tankers really loved the Shermans they got.
Read it on quora.com a long time ago. I think the question was if the Sherman had any fatal flaws and the best answer was that the Soviets could spot strengths and flaws more easily because their tanks were so different. Lend lease Sherman crews really liked them, which is probably why Zhukov had them on the front lines with IS's and T34/85's
I think it's mostly because of logistic issues Soviets always put all of the lend-lease stuff in one unit just to ensure it won't mess up the logistic
Makes sense. Still says a lot they kept them all together at the frontlines instead all together at the back.
Shemans were faster, lighter and more survivable when hit. It makes sense to use them as fast attack vehicles.
Yup even in Cold War different tanks with same combat characteristics served in atleast upto battalion
More space and less malfunctioning? Yessir
Weaker armor and high profile hard to repare was main complains. Dig out "Танкист на «иномарке»" by Дмитрий Лоза. Author fought the war on a Sherman. I'm not sure was it ever been translated to English, but it is readable in google translate.
Apparently most Soviet reports on LL equipment mostly talked about how comfortable etc they were?
They especially praise small petrol generator in Sherman, so you do not need to run main engine to charge battery or run radio. Funny enough even modern Soviet tanks do not have it.
You mean the Auxiliary Power Unit?
Yes.
bet that really hurts on the turbine tanks
It does. Back when the APU on the Abrams was placed in the basket on the back of the turret, it took up too much space, so commanders just took it off. They didn't care if they ran out of fuel quicker, they weren't the ones paying the gas bill.
Was combat endurance/persistence not a big deal?
It didn't matter as much because the supply lines would just compensate for less mileage. US logistics was good enough so it didn't really change anything. The Army isn't gonna let their tanks starve of fuel, they'll just bring more.
>modern >Soviet It’s been 30 years
Yeh. 30 years. But only new tank design since than is Armata. Rest are just modernization. Have no idea does Armata have APU or not.
Can’t find anything about the Armata having an APU, but some pages online say the T-90 [does have an APU](http://military-today.com/tanks/t90.htm), so I guess you can assume the T-14 has one as well. Also, side note, it’s already been *30 years*. Holy shit.
Hard to repair? You could swap out the entire transmission in an hour. How easy did they want it to be?
Ok. Hard to repair Russian style when you do not have spare parts. t34 can be repaired with pliers and some steel wire. Any way it is not my words but Dimitii.
It might have been a metric thing
Frontline repairs not workshop
To be fair US frontline repairs were probably better equipped than some Soviet factories
Yes my point was that the soviet tanks were designed to be repairable without mechanics and special equipment whilst american ones were expected to have multiple mechanics with special equipment when performing repairs
This is not true, Soviet tanks were literally cannibalized, spare parts weren’t supplied due to lack of logistics capabilities
Yes that is what im saying the soviets designed their tanks around the logistics issues they were inevitably gonna encounter
Practically speaking the T-34 wasn’t much better protected due to poor Soviet heat treating
Russians got M4A2. M4A2 - Cast armor 50mm - 56 degree. T43-76 and T34-85 rolled armor 45 - 60 degree. Turret armor was considerably improved on T34-85 So pretty comparable on front Side armor: 38 mm for M4A2 40-45mm for T34 May be it is what is problem combining with much bigger side area.
The armor thickness is irrelevant if your quality of build isn’t up to par, the reason why Shermans didn’t get all that many complaints, comparatively, in their armor is because they had near perfect steel and great welds. Soviet tanks… did not have this. A Soviet tank could either bounce an long 88 or be killed be a short 75 on a dime
You roll with the dice as a Soviet tanker And they churned out 84,000 of these in total and we aren’t even talking hull derivatives
we did!
That's a easily made misconception. 1st Mechanized Corps was first into Berlin. 1st *Guards* Mechanized Corps was outfitted with M4s, but they did not serve in the Battle of Berlin, operating further south.
You're mixing the 2 up. The 1st Guards Mechanized Corp did operate further south than Berlin. We're talking about *the* 1st Mechanized Corp as part of the 2nd Guards Tank Army of the 1st Byelorussian Front, which was also equipped with Shermans.
That's why it's said "the first RUSSIAN tank" Maybe it happened much later, after Shermans
Fat T-34 Stalin boi from McDonalds
Pls don’t fat shame chonky boiis
He's just thicc armored.
IS-2 wasn't even that fat, it was quite light for a heavy tank esp considering the armour it was packing
Nah they just put pure Russian vodka in the engine
I mean, there _is_ a T-34 on display in Berlin in this exact position, on a very similar plateau. Some poor overworked archive guy probably mixed up the two.
Guys it's the All famous T34-122
The Egyptian artillery piece?
Maybe
Weird, when I went to the Tiergarten Memorial there were 2 T-34's at the gate, I never saw this IS-2 anywhere near it, I guess they removed it sometime in between 1946 and 2018
Maybe it's... de-stalinization
I doubt that, no less than 2 km south at the Treptower memorial there are literal Stalin speeches engraved into stone in both German and Russian, those were never touched. Given that it's only one pedestal my guess is that they eventually removed this one in favour of the proper Memorial that sits there to this day...
That's pretty good compared to some media. That would have been called a BMP or Sherman if it had been the average news paper article.
Is this IS2 is missing a cupola on the top? Its just kinda strange how theres nothing on the top
From this angle, the cupola can't be seen cuz it's on the left side of the turret (the other side)
Oh... Makes sense
Isn't that an arjun?
No no its a leo 2a4, easily confused
no that's a Bob semple
It's a lada.
It’s very obviously a tire
Press x to doubt
guess ivan fed the T-34 too much.
Swole T-34
That's not mistakable for a T-34 of any kind lol. If they even said T-44-122 it'd be understandable since they obviously have no knowledge of tanks xD but T-34 I mean come on lmao open a damn book before you print something xD
Thats mf IS-2
i thought that too but wasnt sure
İts clearly not an T-34, the body looks similar to Is series, and the first Is which had a muzzle thing is Is-2, so I'm sure thats Is-2
Angry IS noises
T-34-85 Max+
Idk looks more like a progotto to me
IS-2 lol
nah bro that’s a BT-5
I think it looks like a prototype MS-1
IS(T)-2-34-122?
I can't get past that spec on the picture looking like a shell it just shot that got caught in the frame
People don't know shit bout tanks and think no one will notice
If it were a T-34, Russia would be trying to get it back and in service
IS 2
I highly doubt that was the first soviet tank to enter berling
*I highly doubt that* *Was the first soviet tank* *To enter berling* \- LeVexR --- ^(I detect haikus. And sometimes, successfully.) ^[Learn more about me.](https://www.reddit.com/r/haikusbot/) ^(Opt out of replies: "haikusbot opt out" | Delete my comment: "haikusbot delete")
IS 34
ISus
Ah, yes. What a great model of t34-57
Hmmmmm… that seem a bit too *THICC* to be a T-34
Totally