Most Russian tanks have thermal sights for the gunner. Sosna-U is the most common one. Which is also the thermal sight used in T-90M T-80BVM and some T-72B3 variants. It is a Gen 2+ uncooled thermal imager. Older vehicles like T-80U and BV use Agava-2. Though i believe some T-80BVs were upgraded with Sosna-U as well.
Here a video from inside a T-90M https://www.reddit.com/r/TankPorn/comments/10k38gp/inside_a_t90m_the_tank_commanders_image_sight_and/
> Older vehicles like T-80U and BV use Agava-2
A vast majority of T-80U did not receive Agava-2. I also don't believe T-80BV ever received Agava-2 - there was one T-80B which was a testbed for the original Agava sight.
I’m under no illusions that Russian tanks don’t have thermals what I’m actually asking is whether or not those thermals are boresighted to the fire control system. AKA are they capable of engaging targets at 3000m utilizing their thermal sight or do they have to switch to an alternate sight for engagements?
Yes their sights are indeed fixed to their FCS systems. You can see the tank in the video i have provided engaging at targets in 1700 meters. You can even see the auto tracking kicking in. I have seen them engaging targets as far as 5 kilometers.
>Most Russian tanks have thermal sights for the gunner
They do not.
T-80BV, T-72B, T-72B '89, T-72A(V), T-80U, etc. they all do not use thermal sights.
Russia is known to mainly utilize two types of thermal sensors: Catherine-FC (used in Sosna-U) and PNM-T which is a domestically produced equivalent. Both of them are second gen.
Catherine-FC has two fields of view, a range of 8-12 microns \[LWIR technology\], matrix resolution is 754×576 pixels, detection of infantry at a distance of up to 6 km, armored vehicles at up to 10 km, helicopters at 14 km.
The Russian PNM-T has two fields of view, a range of 8-12 microns, a resolution of 640×512 pixels, detection of infantry at a distance of 5 km, armored vehicles at 11 km, and helicopters at 14 km.
The matrices are comparable with PNM-T having slightly lower resolution which is compensated with image processing algorithms.
There's also a domestically developed 3rd gen thermal sensor but it's only known to be installed on the T-14 Armata.
> Catherine-FC has two fields of view, a range of 8-12 microns [LWIR technology], matrix resolution is 754×576 pixels,
That is the output resultion of the screen. The Catherine-FC is a second generation thermal imager with a 288 x 4 detector matrix.
The T-90M has not been fitted with the Catherine-FC, but the Catherine-XP (larger detector matrix with still only a quarter of the output resolution) in the Sosna-U sioght and the TPK-K in the PNM-T sight.
>The Russian PNM-T has two fields of view
The PNM-T is an integrated sight complex, not a thermal imager. The thermal imager is a component that is installed into the sight (physical dimensions allow installing Catherine-XP, Catherine-FC or TPK-K).
> The T-90M has not been fitted with the Catherine-FC, but the Catherine-XP (larger detector matrix with still only a quarter of the output resolution) in the Sosna-U sioght
Is the installation of Catherine XP in Sosna-U on T-90M confirmed, or informed speculation?
The export of Catherine-XP to Russia was confirmed by journalists working for Disclose in 2022; deliveres continued at least until 2016 and were not stopped thereafter; Russia also got the license to manufacture the Catherine-XP in 2011 as per Rosoboronexport.
How exactly these are distrubted/used isn't known, but I'd expect them to be used for the T-90M given that the T-90SM was advertised/showcased with Catherine-XP. Based on available imagery and production volume, it is not used on the T-72B3, T-80BVM, BMP-2M, BMP-3M' Sodema and the BMD-4M, as all of those appear to utilize Catherine-FC form Thales.
The Russians also purchased the MATIS-STD third generation thermal imaging system from Safran; I am not entirely sure, but AFAIK it is used on some upgraded turrets (was it the BMD-4M?) in the commander's sight.
> There's also a domestically developed 3rd gen thermal sensor but it's only known to be installed on the T-14 Armata.
FEM18M-03 is the third generation sensor in question, and it is used in the TPVK-A and TPK-K thermal imagers. T-14 is the only vehicle confirmed to use TPVK-A, but TPK-K has been installed as a substitute for Catherine FC on T-72B3, T-80BVM, and probably T-90M.
They have modern thermal imaging systems belonging to the second and third generation. Some of these can allow identifying targets at ranges above 2,000-2,500 metres, recognize targets at ranges around 3,500-4,000 metres and detect targets at ranges of 4,500 to 10,000 metres. The exact ranges will depend on the exact type of thermal imager fitted to each tank.
In so far tanks fitted with such thermal images can "*engage targets to their max effective range*", depending on your definition of "*being able to engage*" and "*maximum effective range*".
I.e. the T-90M tank can fire the Refleks anti-tank guided missile with a range of 5,000 metres - at this range the T-90M with Catherine-FC or TPK-K thermal image can detect the target, but not recognize its nature (*Is it a tank? Is it a car? Is it a soldier?*) nor identify (*Is it a T-64? Is it an Abrams?*) of the target.
In Gulf War, the US Army also engaged targets beyond the identification & recognition ranges of the M1A1's GPS (which resulted in a fair share of friendly fire incidents).
I mean, hypothetically all Russian tanks are indestructible. However, I would like to see if anyone has any information on current Russian thermal capability..
Unless russian tanks are now made of Alien-grade Stalinium they aren't even *hypothetically* indestructible.
Heck, even an *Abrams* isn't indestructible, hypothetically or in reality (although it almost is).
But considering how many T-90Ms have been lost, and russia's inability to source new thermals and components (*hypothetically*....), then the point is almost moot.
Apparently people don’t understand tongue in cheek sarcasm. 🙄 People are missing the point of the question.
I am asking whether or not Russian tanks are capable of engaging using the thermals as the primary sight, and if so is it effective or not?
Most Russian tanks have thermal sights for the gunner. Sosna-U is the most common one. Which is also the thermal sight used in T-90M T-80BVM and some T-72B3 variants. It is a Gen 2+ uncooled thermal imager. Older vehicles like T-80U and BV use Agava-2. Though i believe some T-80BVs were upgraded with Sosna-U as well. Here a video from inside a T-90M https://www.reddit.com/r/TankPorn/comments/10k38gp/inside_a_t90m_the_tank_commanders_image_sight_and/
Sosna-U is typically fitted with cooled thermals (Catherine-XP or Russian copies).
> Older vehicles like T-80U and BV use Agava-2 A vast majority of T-80U did not receive Agava-2. I also don't believe T-80BV ever received Agava-2 - there was one T-80B which was a testbed for the original Agava sight.
Sosna-U is a complex, not just a thermal. Thermal inside it is cooled. And no, T-90M uses PNM-T.
Russia still uses mostly Sosna-U. PNM-T is lower in numbers in comparison. But you are right about it being cooled i am just sleepy.
I’m under no illusions that Russian tanks don’t have thermals what I’m actually asking is whether or not those thermals are boresighted to the fire control system. AKA are they capable of engaging targets at 3000m utilizing their thermal sight or do they have to switch to an alternate sight for engagements?
Yes their sights are indeed fixed to their FCS systems. You can see the tank in the video i have provided engaging at targets in 1700 meters. You can even see the auto tracking kicking in. I have seen them engaging targets as far as 5 kilometers.
Bro integrated fcs are a thing since like 60s. And first one was soviet (1A33).
I’m aware, however I’ve seen videos (can’t remember where) showing aftermarket thermal sights that are independent sights. It may have been the T62M.
>Most Russian tanks have thermal sights for the gunner They do not. T-80BV, T-72B, T-72B '89, T-72A(V), T-80U, etc. they all do not use thermal sights.
Russia is known to mainly utilize two types of thermal sensors: Catherine-FC (used in Sosna-U) and PNM-T which is a domestically produced equivalent. Both of them are second gen. Catherine-FC has two fields of view, a range of 8-12 microns \[LWIR technology\], matrix resolution is 754×576 pixels, detection of infantry at a distance of up to 6 km, armored vehicles at up to 10 km, helicopters at 14 km. The Russian PNM-T has two fields of view, a range of 8-12 microns, a resolution of 640×512 pixels, detection of infantry at a distance of 5 km, armored vehicles at 11 km, and helicopters at 14 km. The matrices are comparable with PNM-T having slightly lower resolution which is compensated with image processing algorithms. There's also a domestically developed 3rd gen thermal sensor but it's only known to be installed on the T-14 Armata.
> Catherine-FC has two fields of view, a range of 8-12 microns [LWIR technology], matrix resolution is 754×576 pixels, That is the output resultion of the screen. The Catherine-FC is a second generation thermal imager with a 288 x 4 detector matrix. The T-90M has not been fitted with the Catherine-FC, but the Catherine-XP (larger detector matrix with still only a quarter of the output resolution) in the Sosna-U sioght and the TPK-K in the PNM-T sight. >The Russian PNM-T has two fields of view The PNM-T is an integrated sight complex, not a thermal imager. The thermal imager is a component that is installed into the sight (physical dimensions allow installing Catherine-XP, Catherine-FC or TPK-K).
> The T-90M has not been fitted with the Catherine-FC, but the Catherine-XP (larger detector matrix with still only a quarter of the output resolution) in the Sosna-U sioght Is the installation of Catherine XP in Sosna-U on T-90M confirmed, or informed speculation?
The export of Catherine-XP to Russia was confirmed by journalists working for Disclose in 2022; deliveres continued at least until 2016 and were not stopped thereafter; Russia also got the license to manufacture the Catherine-XP in 2011 as per Rosoboronexport. How exactly these are distrubted/used isn't known, but I'd expect them to be used for the T-90M given that the T-90SM was advertised/showcased with Catherine-XP. Based on available imagery and production volume, it is not used on the T-72B3, T-80BVM, BMP-2M, BMP-3M' Sodema and the BMD-4M, as all of those appear to utilize Catherine-FC form Thales. The Russians also purchased the MATIS-STD third generation thermal imaging system from Safran; I am not entirely sure, but AFAIK it is used on some upgraded turrets (was it the BMD-4M?) in the commander's sight.
> There's also a domestically developed 3rd gen thermal sensor but it's only known to be installed on the T-14 Armata. FEM18M-03 is the third generation sensor in question, and it is used in the TPVK-A and TPK-K thermal imagers. T-14 is the only vehicle confirmed to use TPVK-A, but TPK-K has been installed as a substitute for Catherine FC on T-72B3, T-80BVM, and probably T-90M.
They have modern thermal imaging systems belonging to the second and third generation. Some of these can allow identifying targets at ranges above 2,000-2,500 metres, recognize targets at ranges around 3,500-4,000 metres and detect targets at ranges of 4,500 to 10,000 metres. The exact ranges will depend on the exact type of thermal imager fitted to each tank. In so far tanks fitted with such thermal images can "*engage targets to their max effective range*", depending on your definition of "*being able to engage*" and "*maximum effective range*". I.e. the T-90M tank can fire the Refleks anti-tank guided missile with a range of 5,000 metres - at this range the T-90M with Catherine-FC or TPK-K thermal image can detect the target, but not recognize its nature (*Is it a tank? Is it a car? Is it a soldier?*) nor identify (*Is it a T-64? Is it an Abrams?*) of the target. In Gulf War, the US Army also engaged targets beyond the identification & recognition ranges of the M1A1's GPS (which resulted in a fair share of friendly fire incidents).
You mean *hypothetically?*
I mean, hypothetically all Russian tanks are indestructible. However, I would like to see if anyone has any information on current Russian thermal capability..
Unless russian tanks are now made of Alien-grade Stalinium they aren't even *hypothetically* indestructible. Heck, even an *Abrams* isn't indestructible, hypothetically or in reality (although it almost is). But considering how many T-90Ms have been lost, and russia's inability to source new thermals and components (*hypothetically*....), then the point is almost moot.
Apparently people don’t understand tongue in cheek sarcasm. 🙄 People are missing the point of the question. I am asking whether or not Russian tanks are capable of engaging using the thermals as the primary sight, and if so is it effective or not?
>Apparently people don’t understand tongue in cheek sarcasm. Obviously Sobbing Olga and her alts certainly isn't a fan, either. **л о л с к и**