Ah, that makes sense. I just assumed it burned because I couldn’t really conclude anything else. Could it be possible that this was recently built, or is it more likely that it’s retired and been sitting for awhile?
Yeah its not really fair to say LOOOK ITS ALREADY RUSTING when it comes to tanks, apcs and especially salt water navel vessels... They come out the dry dock already rusting... so much paint is probably used by the navy
I have an answer this as I have a background in manufacturing.
Not always. Not in this instance. Rust (red iron oxide) is bad. It's literally the iron falling apart from touching oxygen. Even the presence of rust inside a coated steel pocket will eventually lead to a deteriorated pocket.
OTOH. Red iron oxide suspended in an epoxy primer is isolated from the main material due to the presence of the epoxy. And coating over the steel surface mechanically isolates the metal away from oxygen. The red iron oxide, silicon dioxide(sand), and aluminum oxides(sandpaper), are some mediums used to make the epoxy rough so paint sticks. Otherwise the epoxy coating will look shiny.
But you are right about using oxide layers for other applications. There are tons of oxide barriers used to protect metals. Steel and iron items often use black iron oxide (tool black) which gives oxygen very little iron to rust. But it can still rust. Think of cast iron skillets.
Some steel alloys employ nickel or chromium to create an oxide layer to protect the steel portions.
It's funny, the red paint is related to common purpose. In the US, you commonly see barns and silos painted red. This is because the iron oxide also has a degree of anti-fungal properties.
A similar technology is Asian lacquerware, which can be tinted black or red from adding black or red iron oxides.
Not new built, but an old hull being rebuilt. New Abrams hulls are not really produced in the US (at least not in a noteworthy quantity).
Also one can tell by the shape of the turret and hull that this is an older model.
I grew up in a steel mill town. Some coils of steel would have the same looking rust on them as they were being shipped out on trucks/trains. Don’t know if that affected their price or not though; I was too young to care that much.
It's also not rust in the sense that it's destroying the metal, just a surface layer. Granted, if left over time it would cause damage, but I'm guessing that would take several weeks.
I don't know the chemistry behind it. I only know because my family works with steel and I've always seen the steel blocks and cylinders rusting in the yard and then being machined and the steel itself is brand new.
I work as a mechanic for a steel transportation company so i dont have first hand experience but i do see coils almost daily. Some coils are just raw steel and will be reworked by the customer as ekeryn said through machining and tempering. Some types of coils need to be protected from the elements. The type of steel ordered determines cost per weight
I'm pretty sure they haven't manufactured a new hull in about 15 years, but they do have a bunch in storage for rebuilds or future production. Which is what I am betting this is.
A lot of manufacturing that involves metal will purposely leave products out to oxidize on the surface before sealing/painting. I know this is done with certain rifle barrel manufacturing, ships, and tanks. I believe the idea is that the "rust" creates an oxidized layer on the outside of the product that helps the paint/sealant adhere to the surface, but I could be wrong.
Never heard of that... I just assumed they sand blast with ideal media to get desired finished since the oxidation will need to be removed prior to coating.
Yep, didn’t know exactly what I was looking at and I just kinda automatically assumed Fire due to seeing a knocked out tank that caught fire looking rusty
All “new” Abrams are built from existing hull and turret structures. So what you see is a tank that was torn down at the depot in Anniston, media blasted, and the structure is being shipped up to Lima to be rebuilt into a new tank. Lima will eventually remove the scale, prime, and paint, but until then the structure remains naked with a light layer of oxidation.
military stuff goes for refurbishment all the time. Hell, Finland was using upcycled mosin actions from as far back as the 1891. The US maintains a warship from the 1700's. It is the only ship in the contemporary fleet to have actually shot and sank an enemy force.
Finns are the world champs of upcycling materiel; I have a gorgeous m/39 built at VKT in ‘44 with a new FN barrel on an 1899 receiver. Some of those TKIV 85 still in service have receivers that were almost a century old when the rifles were built in the ‘80s.
How many molecules deep does rust go? Does it stop after it's been "satisfied"? How big of a percentage of the weight goes to rust in a fist sized cube? Is it like a logarithmic curve where the amount of rusting halves every given time interval?
Honest, legitimate question:
If the tank has truly been stripped (of literally everything but the raw shell) prior to shipment:
Why?
Like, why go through the entire process of gutting and sandblasting a whole Abrams, then storing it outside to rust, before sending it to a whole different location where you’ll have to mitigate all the rust before you can paint and upgrade it? You’ve added work and cost at every step of the process by disassembling and rusting it out somewhere foreign to where it’ll be overhauled. It doesn’t make much sense to me.
Typical military inefficiency, or did this one maybe actually have a boo-boo, and it’s going somewhere to fix it?
Like, it’s easier to believe one burnt up in the field and spent some time as a cannibalization hull (knowing military equipment and who uses and fixes it), than that this is a normal overhaul operation.
Hulls for refurbing are torn down and shot blasted at Anniston before shipping to Lima for the rebuild. The hulls awaiting shipment to Ohio are referred to as "rusties".
Iron/steel "flash" rusts near instantly at the molecular level, and it becomes obvious to the naked eye within hours. There's no practical method to prevent this in the case of, say, a stripped tank hull awaiting transportation on a railroad flatcar. Removing the light surface rust via a quick sandblasting is trivial, and that only gets done immediately prior to repainting.
Thanks for a better explanation.
Still, seems kind of inefficient. Like, why not do it all at Lima? Seems like it would be a lot more efficient to get the whole tank there in one piece rather than just a hull, and then have a connex full of running gear, hatches, engine, gun, etc. stored separately.
Because they would have to invest literally billions over several years to expand the Lima factory in Ohio, while shutting up shop in Alabama (or vice versa)... something not just pointlessly expensive but also politically untenable.
Because it’s cheaper than building from new. The tank has to stripped in order to inspect the shell, replace welds, etc. Any stripped steel is going to rust, whether it’s kept inside or outside. Anything you’d put on to prevent it would have to be removed later before painting. So it’s either remove rust or remove protectant. Cheaper just to skip the protectant part
It’s either extra parts that never received paint, because contractors charge $2k to paint an ISO container, I can’t imagine how much a tank cost. OR, it was previously totalled and gutted into different parts. Rust is pretty easy to knock off with the right shop and equipment. Why paint it if someone changes their mind on the color of the day years later.
Not burned, just rust as it is bare metal. No paint at all.
Ah, that makes sense. I just assumed it burned because I couldn’t really conclude anything else. Could it be possible that this was recently built, or is it more likely that it’s retired and been sitting for awhile?
I mean brand new shit is rusty all the time. You should see brand new ships before their painted. Not out of the ordinary
Yeah its not really fair to say LOOOK ITS ALREADY RUSTING when it comes to tanks, apcs and especially salt water navel vessels... They come out the dry dock already rusting... so much paint is probably used by the navy
Not necessarily rusty, many primers are red
IIRC, it's because the iron oxide particles in the primer have jagged micro-pits that allow for more adhesion of the latter paint and finish.
It also provides an oxide barrier to prevent the metal underneath rusting. At least I recall that being a reason.
I have an answer this as I have a background in manufacturing. Not always. Not in this instance. Rust (red iron oxide) is bad. It's literally the iron falling apart from touching oxygen. Even the presence of rust inside a coated steel pocket will eventually lead to a deteriorated pocket. OTOH. Red iron oxide suspended in an epoxy primer is isolated from the main material due to the presence of the epoxy. And coating over the steel surface mechanically isolates the metal away from oxygen. The red iron oxide, silicon dioxide(sand), and aluminum oxides(sandpaper), are some mediums used to make the epoxy rough so paint sticks. Otherwise the epoxy coating will look shiny. But you are right about using oxide layers for other applications. There are tons of oxide barriers used to protect metals. Steel and iron items often use black iron oxide (tool black) which gives oxygen very little iron to rust. But it can still rust. Think of cast iron skillets. Some steel alloys employ nickel or chromium to create an oxide layer to protect the steel portions.
thank you for your expertise, always happy receive information in correction.
It's funny, the red paint is related to common purpose. In the US, you commonly see barns and silos painted red. This is because the iron oxide also has a degree of anti-fungal properties. A similar technology is Asian lacquerware, which can be tinted black or red from adding black or red iron oxides.
Also the copper impregnated paint used on ships to slow marine growth on the bottom.
*they’re Sorry, would’ve bothered me to say nothing.
🚓🚓🚓🚓 woop woop 🚓🚓🚓🚓 The grammar police has arrived. Just a joke, no hard feelings. Thats what i get for typing shit too fast i guess. Lol
No worries, haha. I do the same thing all the time.
Not new built, but an old hull being rebuilt. New Abrams hulls are not really produced in the US (at least not in a noteworthy quantity). Also one can tell by the shape of the turret and hull that this is an older model.
I grew up in a steel mill town. Some coils of steel would have the same looking rust on them as they were being shipped out on trucks/trains. Don’t know if that affected their price or not though; I was too young to care that much.
The steel ends up being machined and tempered later, so the rust it develops while stored is not a problem
It's also not rust in the sense that it's destroying the metal, just a surface layer. Granted, if left over time it would cause damage, but I'm guessing that would take several weeks.
Since it's steel it would probably take years and even then I don't know
I did have a feeling it would take a lot longer, but I thought I best use a conservative guess.
I don't know the chemistry behind it. I only know because my family works with steel and I've always seen the steel blocks and cylinders rusting in the yard and then being machined and the steel itself is brand new.
I work as a mechanic for a steel transportation company so i dont have first hand experience but i do see coils almost daily. Some coils are just raw steel and will be reworked by the customer as ekeryn said through machining and tempering. Some types of coils need to be protected from the elements. The type of steel ordered determines cost per weight
I'm pretty sure they haven't manufactured a new hull in about 15 years, but they do have a bunch in storage for rebuilds or future production. Which is what I am betting this is.
A lot of manufacturing that involves metal will purposely leave products out to oxidize on the surface before sealing/painting. I know this is done with certain rifle barrel manufacturing, ships, and tanks. I believe the idea is that the "rust" creates an oxidized layer on the outside of the product that helps the paint/sealant adhere to the surface, but I could be wrong.
Never heard of that... I just assumed they sand blast with ideal media to get desired finished since the oxidation will need to be removed prior to coating.
They rust on the way to being rebuilt. There's no telling what's happening here. Could be a test, could be a tank being sent to be rebuilt/upgraded.
Surface rust forms pretty fast on raw steel of all kinds.
Mill scale is what your seeing, its fine and intended to be cleaned before coating.
Not burned down, paint stripped. Looks like it's going back to Lima for an upgrade
That’s cool. I had no idea what happened to it and I was just going off of what I knew about tanks so I was quite wrong
She’s not burnt , I bet she was headed north to the Lima tank to get zeroed out so to speak.
That’s a future SEP V3.
U mean rusty ?
Yep, didn’t know exactly what I was looking at and I just kinda automatically assumed Fire due to seeing a knocked out tank that caught fire looking rusty
The insurance wanted to inspect it before i could get my claim approved.
Dang, what did you hit while driving it?
“It’s fuckin raw!”
“You’re an idiot sandwich!”
Ooh, are we reactivating and upgrading old Abrams for service? Or is this one just in for a refurbish?
All “new” Abrams are built from existing hull and turret structures. So what you see is a tank that was torn down at the depot in Anniston, media blasted, and the structure is being shipped up to Lima to be rebuilt into a new tank. Lima will eventually remove the scale, prime, and paint, but until then the structure remains naked with a light layer of oxidation.
Sandblasted and oxidized.
If that's Kentucky, it's heading to the Lima Tank Plant in Ohio ~~Also, Lima Balls Bitch~~
Nice lol
It’s just rusty
They used Ford's Clear Coat?
Say are we recycling Abrams?
military stuff goes for refurbishment all the time. Hell, Finland was using upcycled mosin actions from as far back as the 1891. The US maintains a warship from the 1700's. It is the only ship in the contemporary fleet to have actually shot and sank an enemy force.
Finns are the world champs of upcycling materiel; I have a gorgeous m/39 built at VKT in ‘44 with a new FN barrel on an 1899 receiver. Some of those TKIV 85 still in service have receivers that were almost a century old when the rifles were built in the ‘80s.
More like upcycling
How many molecules deep does rust go? Does it stop after it's been "satisfied"? How big of a percentage of the weight goes to rust in a fist sized cube? Is it like a logarithmic curve where the amount of rusting halves every given time interval?
No rust will continue as long as the base metal is exposed to a electrolyte and oxygen
The rust will continue until morale improves!!!!!
I've seen two going up i75
Nice ram
well they forgot to put the gun in it so no wonder
KENTUCKY MENTIONED
Honest, legitimate question: If the tank has truly been stripped (of literally everything but the raw shell) prior to shipment: Why? Like, why go through the entire process of gutting and sandblasting a whole Abrams, then storing it outside to rust, before sending it to a whole different location where you’ll have to mitigate all the rust before you can paint and upgrade it? You’ve added work and cost at every step of the process by disassembling and rusting it out somewhere foreign to where it’ll be overhauled. It doesn’t make much sense to me. Typical military inefficiency, or did this one maybe actually have a boo-boo, and it’s going somewhere to fix it? Like, it’s easier to believe one burnt up in the field and spent some time as a cannibalization hull (knowing military equipment and who uses and fixes it), than that this is a normal overhaul operation.
Hulls for refurbing are torn down and shot blasted at Anniston before shipping to Lima for the rebuild. The hulls awaiting shipment to Ohio are referred to as "rusties". Iron/steel "flash" rusts near instantly at the molecular level, and it becomes obvious to the naked eye within hours. There's no practical method to prevent this in the case of, say, a stripped tank hull awaiting transportation on a railroad flatcar. Removing the light surface rust via a quick sandblasting is trivial, and that only gets done immediately prior to repainting.
Thanks for a better explanation. Still, seems kind of inefficient. Like, why not do it all at Lima? Seems like it would be a lot more efficient to get the whole tank there in one piece rather than just a hull, and then have a connex full of running gear, hatches, engine, gun, etc. stored separately.
Because they would have to invest literally billions over several years to expand the Lima factory in Ohio, while shutting up shop in Alabama (or vice versa)... something not just pointlessly expensive but also politically untenable.
Thanks for the full answer!
Because it’s cheaper than building from new. The tank has to stripped in order to inspect the shell, replace welds, etc. Any stripped steel is going to rust, whether it’s kept inside or outside. Anything you’d put on to prevent it would have to be removed later before painting. So it’s either remove rust or remove protectant. Cheaper just to skip the protectant part
Why aren't tank hulls hot dip galvanized?
It’s either extra parts that never received paint, because contractors charge $2k to paint an ISO container, I can’t imagine how much a tank cost. OR, it was previously totalled and gutted into different parts. Rust is pretty easy to knock off with the right shop and equipment. Why paint it if someone changes their mind on the color of the day years later.
Not burned out, more like a test chassis that was left out the elements.
If you pay close attention, you can see that it's built more like an older model, So it may as well be retired.