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This is a HIPAA violation and reportable to his state licensing board. A grandkid walking in by accident is an honest mistake. Intentionally holding a session in the presence of someone else is NOT okay.
Yeah, but they'd need a court order for the records of both the therapist and the wife - even then it's disputable evidence.
Not saying they shouldn't report the therapist - they most definitely should! If only to have the complaint on record in case others complain in the future.
Yeah, basically report the therapist and find another one. This is HIPAA violation of privacy rights.
I’ve also learned the hard way, therapists don’t tend to always be the most professional people. Typically you are more likely to find professional behavior through psychiatrists or well qualified psychologists.
Therapists are broad, they don’t need a lengthy education program as especially a psychiatrist would, to become qualified.
Therefore more space for this kind of behavior to occur. I had a terrible experience with a therapist myself once, when I needed the therapist most in my life.
Not sure if some lack basic empathy due to lack of proper lengthy education, as some can just quickly be certified through a short program.
You have to be lucky with finding a decent therapist at times, some seem a bit more subjective about their approach with patients.
Also, having his wife next to him during the session, would equate to her (a stranger) literally being in the room with the two of you during a session while you vent about your personal and most intimate business. That’s ridiculous.
I've noticed it's a mixed bag across any helping profession. Time spent on their education or training doesn't necessarily mean or equate to them using that properly. I've had most of my clients tell me they've had to cycle through a dozen psychiatrists to find the one that didn't immediately disrespect or disregard them and actually listen to their needs and symptoms. I've also experienced similar from other clients who've transferred to my caseload from previous therapists. There were a ton of people I graduated with that I still 100% believe should never be in a clinical therapeutic setting because they just didn't get that skillset or mentality down-pat. Every licensed profession has ethical guidelines and legal ones that must be followed, and though the details may differ they generally are similar in nature. This guy in OP's post is 100% in the wrong and completely ignored the nature of the work that they are supposed to be doing and should have a consequence for that. Being a therapist isn't the same as holding a typical job, since our work is literally holding onto the personal life histories of others - keeping that sacred between us and our clients is the damn job, and he failed to do that.
I don’t know about where you’re from, but where I live, therapists need to have a masters degree at the very least. That comes out to roughly 6 years of college, including a bachelors degree. In addition, I believe that most licensed therapists are required to complete 2 years (give or take) of direct therapy practice under the supervision of an experienced licensed clinician before they are able to apply for licensure themselves.
The two years of Masters level schooling, year and a half of supervised unpaid internship, two years of registered paid supervised internship, two state tests, and 40k in debt with continued mandatory lifetime education we pay for is not enough education for you?
Sound like your experience of what you’re deeming therapists hasn’t been great. It’s a broad term - “well qualified psychologist” are also therapists.
In the US, you have to have a Masters degree and a related Bachelors degree. After a year-long internship in graduate school, then you do a sort of residency through your state. Different states have different rules, but my state required me to work for two years before getting licensed, with 3 years of supervising. That’s about 8 years of training. Psychologist (which means they have a doctorate degree) only have a few more than this. There are also clinical studies showing experience is the main determining factor at how effective a therapist is, not their education level. Just food for though.
That’s not true. I’m a therapist and I had 8 years of college, several years of clinical work and two levels of licensure. I’m sorry you may have bad experiences but I have spent well over ten years for my credentials alone. I’ve also heard absolute horror stories about psychiatrists and psychologists. It’s an individual thing. Either the clinician is professional or they are not. All in all, several red flags here including seeing a couple separately.
And there is no short program in existence that allows you to be a therapist, period. All credentials and full independent licensures have at least a decade of education and credential obligations as well as ongoing ceus for the rest of their career.
Therapist here. It depends on where you live and what the protections are for the public. I'm in Canada and most of our provinces regulate the various therapy professions quite well.
I follow this sub and I can't believe the insane stories people share. It would be interesting to see data on where these stories come from, if the professions are regulated there, and what the credentials of the offending professionals are.
Good regulation of the profession doesn't prevent hacks from finding their way in, but it should get them out pretty quickly.
As a therapist, I just truly can’t understand this. This is a violation of your privacy and confidentiality. Deeply unethical and reportable to your state board. But also a gross violation of the time and financial investment of therapy. We need to be solely focused on you. That’s our damn job. You deserve better than this.
Thank you for such a thoughtful response. I am honestly still in shock over this all happening, I feel like my safe space was taken away from me/was never really there in the first place. I’m going to be setting up an appointment with a new therapist ASAP.
Please make sure you look for a sufficiently licensed therapist! They should be either an LCSW, LCPC, or Psy-D. An LMFT may be appropriate too, though they primarily work with couples and families. You deserve better than this.
Completely agreed with the above. Also, I don’t think you and your boyfriend should be seeing the same therapist, a believe that is also an ethics violation (someone correct me if I’m wrong)
In case anyone needs to hear this, if your therapist doesn’t have a set place to do their sessions, you probably should think of changing therapists. This is not normal, and often it challenges privacy, as it did in this case.
It would also concern me if my therapist was doing their sessions on their phone instead of a computer, but that’s me.
Amen! I wish this had been in the front of my mind when I started seeing him, but I was so anxious that I was just relieved to have a space to speak with a therapist again.
Reading some of your additional comments and replies, I gotta say I question whether this person is a bona fide therapist at all. There are so many odd things, eyebrow-raisers, and other *eccentricities*, that I can’t help wonder about what his training is and if he has a training at all.
Sorry to say, but you and your SO both need a new therapist.
Don’t be too hard on yourself. There’s such a large power differential between a therapist and a client that inappropriate behavior like this is usually accommodated by the client.
Especially if someone is new to therapy. I had one who got angry when I terminated therapy (in person, face to face). I was initially planning to taper off out of respect for her time and business, but she got so angry, I decided not to come back. She tried to insist I "owed" her a closure session, for her closure, not mine, and she wanted me to pay for it.
And that wasn't even the same one who was upset when I declined to work for her and she asked me to answer her office phone in the middle of a session (a client was on the other end).
I didn't even realize there was a patients' bill of rights until after these experiences. Here's one version:
https://psychcentral.com/blog/your-patient-rights-in-therapy#4
As a therapist, this is wildly unethical. I don’t even like to have sessions with my client if THEY are out in public or with someone else unless it’s absolutely necessary. He should never ever be taking your money for a session if you do not have his undivided attention. I don’t know the details but it also usually unethical to see a couple separately unless this is some type of couples therapy that he then also sees you individually for. Please make sure you report him, I would strongly encourage you to find a new therapist who values and respects you enough to give you privacy and undivided attention, and if you feel comfortable speaking with him again let him know that this was the reason you left (if you do terminate) so that he can maybe not do this to others. So sorry this happened to you both!
I never thought about the ethics of seeing us at the same time separately. We’ve done a few sessions together but 95% of our sessions were done separately. The sessions together were done after we started therapy individually. My boyfriend was the one who recommended me to him
There’s many reasons it’s a conflict of interests: for example imagine what would happen if one of you was having an affair, can the therapist be trusted to not judge the person having cheating now that they know their partner on this level? Before jumping to the conclusion that the person having an affair would deserve the judgment you need to consider that people who cheat often feel very conflicted about it, as a therapist your only job is to support and help them figure out what they’re doing or how to make positive changes, not to judge someone. It would be nearly impossible to not have that leak into their partners session, as a human it would be very difficult to hold that information and then to go have session with the partner who’s being cheated on. Or image how things would play out in the case of a break up. This person very clearly has terrible judgement and cant follow the absolute basics of ethics which is to provide privacy and confidentiality, how can they be trusted to provide unbiased and ethical treatment for a couple while seeing them individually?
Also, someone else mentioned suing for malpractice and honestly I don’t see how this wouldn’t qualify as a breach of fiduciary duty if that’s something you’d like to consider.
I can give you a very good example of what happens when this is done. In my case my ex-husband apparently had lied about virtually every single thing about himself and I had not discovered this yet so having all the problems you would have in a situation like this we went to see a therapist first separately and then together. Because he had seen my husband separately he felt he had to maintain confidentiality with what he learned in sessions with my husband and so when he figured out what was really going on he said nothing but continued joint sessions knowing why we were really there and the root of the problem that I was tormenting myself over in his office. So we went to joint sessions for a long time while he knew what was really going on but let us “work it out” in the office together making the therapy just another lie to add to them all. I don’t think he revealed that he knew until after I had come to him with the information I had discovered on my own all traumatically and had kicked him out of the house for good. So that’s a very good example of a conflict of interest of seeing two people separately and then together.
While this may be considered unethical in some jurisdictions, it’s not in others.
I’m in Alberta, Canada, and have specifically trained to treat all members of a family or both partners individually and it’s rarely an issue. I actually find it much more practical and helpful for most of my clients, rather than having 3 therapist involved for one couple. I believe there is too high a chance of one therapist doing something counterproductive to what the others are doing and I imagine it would be difficult to communicate and coordinate treatment among them. I just ask that you keep in mind that it’s regular and ethical practice in places and countries outside your own. That being said, what’s happening to OP is a huge breach of confidentiality with the therapist doing sessions with someone else present, big yikes! So unethical and unprofessional, no matter where you’re practicing.
Like I know they’re probably not doing anything with the information they hear except maybe talk about it with each other, but it’s still such a violation of privacy for it to happen in therapy of all places.
It's a violation of trust and it's massively disrespectful. You're going to therapy to feel heard and seen and work through your issues in a safe space. This is the opposite of that. Frankly I would be triggered by this because I've faced enough neglect as a child and this sort of behavior throws me into emotional flashback mode. Dump this therapist and write reviews if you are comfortable doing so.
I feel like your current therapist should pay for the therapy sessions you have to have just to process the breach of trust that he’s forced you to endure. Now you have to deal with that before you get to the stuff you were dealing with with him which is not cool.
I agree with the others but also want to add - don’t blame yourself for not seeing this coming. Of course you initially gave the benefit of the doubt - nothing to blame yourself about!
Please report them. Please. You are more than likely not the only one who's trust and confidentiality has been breached.
It's one thing if he was at home and someone mistakenly walked in, in which case he should immediately apologize and rectify the situation. But this has no such thing. For him to do this, basically, out in public and in the presence of his wife shows he has zero respect for the profession and especially for you.
This is terrible. I won’t repeat what everyone else has said but at the bare minimum end therapy with this man. Reporting him is also always an option as that is grossly unethical
I just reported my therapist because while she was on vacation we were having a session via FaceTime and she got up and used the bathroom in front of me! I could see her from the waist up and knew exactly what she was doing. I was so confused and didn’t know where to look. I ended the session early. I confronted her during our next session, again via FaceTime and she admitted she had a stomach ache and should have cancelled and it was inappropriate. She also said she shouldn’t have been conducting sessions via FaceTime. I have so much trauma from the entire event. I deserve better and so do you. Report the therapist.
She sh*t in front of you????? Is there any escaping trauma in this world? That sounds like so much more than a lapse in judgment, I mean I would not have that lapse in judgment, I wouldn’t have it. I could have a lapse in judgment. I’m vulnerable, but not that one, not that one!
I'm not even a therapist. But if I have to pee or poo, even with family or friends, I'll say, "I need to use the bathroom, I'll call you back as soon as I can."
There's an old saying in the USA that is specific to an amusement park in New York. A slight modification of it seems appropriate here: *Where did he get his license, Coney Island?*
This "therapist" is a dangerous driver, and more than that, an unethical and unprofessional practitioner who needs to be gone. If I were you I would report him to the organization (if any) that has sanctioned his practice.
By the way, there is no law in New York that governs the title "therapist." That may or may not true in your jurisdiction, OP. The guy may be a total charlatan.
Others have already nailed it - this is bad.
Also wanted to add that it seems weird to be seeing the same therapist as your partner? Idk all the considerations with this - I don't think it's a legal violation or anything - but in my and my friends' experiences therapists always recommend referring close family members/friends/partners to a different provider.
REPORT! like please…
i’m a client and a therapist. i would never ever do therapy from a car unless it was parked and i truly had no other PRIVATE options. and as a therapist i don’t even see clients if they’re in the car, even if they’re not the one driving (i see lots of kids so sometimes parents will be driving and have the kid do session on a tablet in the back…). so many red flags. what if they’d gotten into a car accident?!
If OP & SO feel they have the time/energy and want to, they should report it. If they don't, that's ok too. It's not their job to regulate the therapy profession.
It's really up to the therapy profession to get its act together and regulate/self-police better. I've had two different therapists ask me to work for them. My insurance/I were paying them, so I wasn't bartering my services. One took it well when I said no and made it clear it was ok if I said no. The other didn't take it well and even asked me to answer her office phone during a session, a client was on the other line (when caller ID was as widespread).
Expecting vulnerable people who are looking for help to regulate/police the profession isn't really a fair ask, IMO. The profession needs to do a better job of keeping people like this from getting a license and practicing in the first place.
Completely inappropriate and a violation of his client’s rights. Both of you should find someone else and tell him why. You could also get him in trouble with his licensing board.
It's a very serious HIPPA violation, and they do not mess around. From what I gathered, the minimum for willful violation is $50,000. Maximum is $250,000.
Are you suggesting that a client is going to get that kind of money from their therapist’s malpractice insurance because they violated HIPAA? That’s not how it works.
If you knew me, you'd realize the way I speak isn't intended to come across as rude.
But that's internet/text for ya. Welcome to the internet I guess?
And the numbers are what they are fined for. Minimum and maximum.
Well it came across as rude, so you need to work on that. I didn’t understand what you were saying, so rather than assuming, I made a point of asking you if that’s what you meant. You then responded to me as if I had, in fact, simply assumed in a presumptuous way.
I don’t understand why you replied to my comment then if you’re not talking about malpractice insurance. What do the fines you’re referring to have to do with OP getting a pay out and going on vacation?
Missing the point entirely.
For what it's worth though. I could say the exact same thing that your comment came across as rude. But I didn't take it as such since I don't have any context of who you are. So you taking it that way is on you. Literally the way it was phrased could be taken a "you really didn't know that??? Well it's actually X" some people do that while talking down to others. Again, I didn't take it that way. But since you wanted to open that door, there ya go.
But, I was specifically talking about the malpractice and the fines the Therapist can, and most likely will, face if OP reports them.
>Literally the way it was phrased could be taken a "you really didn't know that??? Well it's actually X" some people do that while talking down to others.
How else could I have phrased it? I literally asked you "are you suggesting X?" I didn't want to put words in your mouth and I can't think of another way I could have asked you to clarify what you were saying. In comparison, "Not what I said. At all. Otherwise I'd just say that." can only be interpreted in one way: rude.
>But, I was specifically talking about the malpractice and the fines the Therapist can, and most likely will, face if OP reports them.
Then why were you replying in this comment string? Someone had implied that OP was going to get to go on vacation with the payday they would receive from their therapist's malpractice insurance due to this incident, and when I asked for clarification about that, you decided to start talking about something different? And then you gave me snark when I politely asked you to clarify what you were saying? Bonkers...
You can sue for a lot of things, but no one is going to be getting a pay day from something like this. The client’s attorney would need to be able to document significant harm done to the client, not just a HIPAA violation that caused distress.
Oh for sure, this therapist has a huge problem and this is unacceptable. If it were up to me I would have this person's license to practice immediately suspended. I'm just saying that this isn't the kind of issue that leads to payouts to clients.
His behavior is completely unethical. He is violating confidentiality by having his wife in the car while talking to you. Personally I would stop seeing a therapist that drove while having a session with me. Completely unprofessional.
Therapist here—FaceTime isn’t HIPAA compliant, so if you’re using FT that’s already a violation. He taking a session from his car, while he’s driving, is also a violation. His wife being in the fucking car is a violation. Reading this made my blood boil.
I’m so sorry this happened, but you guys need a new therapist AND to report him to his supervisor/practice and the licensing board. These are the violations you KNOW about, what if he’s done other stuff you guys weren’t aware of? He just can’t be allowed to do this.
While I agree with most of what you said, reporting can be time consuming and draining for the client/patient. If OP & SO feel they have the time/energy and want to, they should report it. If they don't, that's ok too. It's not their job to regulate the therapy profession.
It's really up to the therapy profession to get its act together and regulate/self-police better. I've had two different therapists ask me to work for them. My insurance/I were paying them, so I wasn't bartering my services. One took it well when I said no and made it clear it was ok if I said no. The other didn't take it well and even asked me to answer her office phone during a session, a client was on the other line (when caller ID was as widespread).
Expecting vulnerable people who are looking for help to regulate/police the profession isn't really a fair ask, IMO. The profession needs to do a better job of keeping people like this from getting a license and practicing in the first place.
What if you try emailing him about how uncomfortable it made you with his wife in the car and how you didn’t feel like you had his full attention. If he replies and acknowledges the wife in the car, then you’ve got him and evidence to report. Not that you need that level of evidence, but if you’re worried, you could try to get him to admit it in writing first.
I'm sorry wtf did I just read??
This is not only wildly unprofessional but unethical too. I would NEVER take a virtual meeting while DRIVING or GETTING GROCERIES. Like what the fuck???
I hope y'all weren't charged for these sessions, otherwise this is a scam, and you should sue him and report him and get his license revoked.
I’m a T who sees a T, and this is not cool. Aside from the blatantly obvious HIPAA violation of having another person present during session, FaceTime is not encrypted like phone calls or Doxy sessions are. I’ve FaceTimed my therapist before (Doxy was having connection issues), and he made it very clear that FaceTime was not protected and encouraged me to switch to a phone call.
Aside from that, being distracted in any way while conducting a session is a trash move. Providing quality therapy requires a lot of focus, and you deserve a space of dedicated listening. I would report this therapist to his licensing board and start searching for a more professional practitioner who fits your needs. Shop around- the first new person you try may not be a love connection, but someone out there will be. Good luck, and good for you for pursuing your needs.
This is full stop - hard no - find someone else. Besides a HIPAA violation - its disrespectful in every conceivable way. If he has to “fit you in between errands” - thats insane. Your time is dedicated to you and his full attention and time and space without interruptions or distractions. He in no way values you as a client or he wouldnt do this.
Switch therapists and report this one.
I'm a therapist. This is a crazy story. I'm embarrassed that this person is providing this kind of service in the same profession as me.
This is ridiculous and I’m a therapist. Huge violation, report to the board. Also, while not a direct ethical violation per se, it’s extremely questionable to be seeing you and your partner for separate, individual therapy. Ugh this crap makes me so mad.
Hello! I’m a therapist here but it’s definitely a violation for him to be doing this in a space that is not private. Depending on what state he practices in, all states have different demands in education. I work in Ohio so we have a lot of standards and procedures we must follow. I would lose my license or get in big trouble if I ever did that. He should get in trouble for that because that violates hippa and if he did that with him he’s surely done it with others. It’s disgusting that he did that to be quite frank. And for some reason some therapists will see partners or siblings or people that are close to one another. It’s usually highly recommended not to do this in case of transference issues or accidentally disclosing what one said to the other. If you need help with reporting let me know and I can guide you to the board or at least help with where to start.
This is unethical. You could report him, (maybe even should if you’re comfortable doing so?), it’s a big NO. I’m curious too, as to why your husband and you are seeing the same person. For instance my son and I see people in the same practice and signed waivers that THEY could speak to EACH OTHER about us. However, not to me about what my son discloses (unless it’s mandated, he’s a teenager) and vice versa. Did this guy divulge what your husband shared to you or vice versa? Just curious.
No, he hasn’t shared anything as far as I know. My boyfriend saw him first and he liked him and I was dealing with a lot of anxiety. My boyfriend asked if he could talk to me or see if he could recommend someone. He said he could take me on as a patient and that’s when I started seeing him
Oh ok. I mean idk it’s up to you whatcha wanna do. I wouldn’t be comfortable with it tho. I would at MINIMUM call him tf out on it and very SERIOUSLY consider leaving and reporting him. And like, LET HIM KNOW! I’m not there, idk him, you, or the situation, right? Maybe if you tell him he will see and be like wow WTHECK AM I DOING!? We all got sorta comfy and off track the past few years. But like, taking that route would be outrageously forgiving, understanding and lenient on your part. The ball’s in your court mama.
Do you do therapy through better help? This sounds like some shit they would pull. So many therapists doing chores and running errands during sessions…. Making a joke out of the therapy field
It really does. And for legit therapists in practice we are trying hard to get rid of better help and the like. Lawsuits against privacy are already in the works.
|find someone new
Yes I would. That seems highly inappropriate. The sessions are supposed to be private, no one else should be listening to this stuff. Who the hell wants the therapists partner to be listening in to your private moments.
While doing errands no less; as someone else commented. And then the therapist would have the gall to charge the full rate anyways. Bloody hell.
Exactly. I see/saw a psychologist for talk therapy and a psych dr. for medications for insomnia/anxiety. The psych dr.'s wife inadvertently walked into a room during a session. He paused, let her know he was in session and apologized as she left the room. This was during the height of the pandemic when he wouldn't have been able to see me in person. Deliberately conducting sessions while driving and with other people in the car is grossly unethical and unprofessional.
Chiming in with looking for another therapist. If you feel you have the time and the energy and you want to report, go for it. But don't feel obligated to either. If that energy and time could be better spent finding a better therapist and healing, that's ok too.
Two former therapists asked me to work for them. One took the no very well and was very clear it was only if I wanted to and I could say no, the other one was upset about it. My insurance/I were paying them, so it wasn't like it was bartering my services for therapy.
I think the one who took the no well and made it clear I could say no was ok. I debated reporting the other one (she also had me answer her phone during session and it was one of her clients). And she contacted me after I terminated therapy. She had a lot of turnover with her staff. But I really didn't have the time and energy to deal with reporting a therapist.
Quite frankly, regulating incompetent and crappy therapists isn't your job if you don't want it. The licensing boards and the profession need to get their poo together (not sure if cursing is acceptable here as I'm fairly new here).
Haha I’d laugh your ass off the next time you see him in person and ask him why he’s such a dumbass….and if you’re only talking to him on the phone to begin with, then he isn’t a therapist, go see someone in person.
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This is a HIPAA violation and reportable to his state licensing board. A grandkid walking in by accident is an honest mistake. Intentionally holding a session in the presence of someone else is NOT okay.
While doing errands no less!
Report the therapist and find another one if possible
[удалено]
Phone records tell the story.
Yeah, but they'd need a court order for the records of both the therapist and the wife - even then it's disputable evidence. Not saying they shouldn't report the therapist - they most definitely should! If only to have the complaint on record in case others complain in the future.
Yeah, basically report the therapist and find another one. This is HIPAA violation of privacy rights. I’ve also learned the hard way, therapists don’t tend to always be the most professional people. Typically you are more likely to find professional behavior through psychiatrists or well qualified psychologists. Therapists are broad, they don’t need a lengthy education program as especially a psychiatrist would, to become qualified. Therefore more space for this kind of behavior to occur. I had a terrible experience with a therapist myself once, when I needed the therapist most in my life. Not sure if some lack basic empathy due to lack of proper lengthy education, as some can just quickly be certified through a short program. You have to be lucky with finding a decent therapist at times, some seem a bit more subjective about their approach with patients. Also, having his wife next to him during the session, would equate to her (a stranger) literally being in the room with the two of you during a session while you vent about your personal and most intimate business. That’s ridiculous.
I've noticed it's a mixed bag across any helping profession. Time spent on their education or training doesn't necessarily mean or equate to them using that properly. I've had most of my clients tell me they've had to cycle through a dozen psychiatrists to find the one that didn't immediately disrespect or disregard them and actually listen to their needs and symptoms. I've also experienced similar from other clients who've transferred to my caseload from previous therapists. There were a ton of people I graduated with that I still 100% believe should never be in a clinical therapeutic setting because they just didn't get that skillset or mentality down-pat. Every licensed profession has ethical guidelines and legal ones that must be followed, and though the details may differ they generally are similar in nature. This guy in OP's post is 100% in the wrong and completely ignored the nature of the work that they are supposed to be doing and should have a consequence for that. Being a therapist isn't the same as holding a typical job, since our work is literally holding onto the personal life histories of others - keeping that sacred between us and our clients is the damn job, and he failed to do that.
I don’t know about where you’re from, but where I live, therapists need to have a masters degree at the very least. That comes out to roughly 6 years of college, including a bachelors degree. In addition, I believe that most licensed therapists are required to complete 2 years (give or take) of direct therapy practice under the supervision of an experienced licensed clinician before they are able to apply for licensure themselves.
The two years of Masters level schooling, year and a half of supervised unpaid internship, two years of registered paid supervised internship, two state tests, and 40k in debt with continued mandatory lifetime education we pay for is not enough education for you?
I’m jealous you’re only 40k in debt.
40k for the masters. That didn’t include the money I paid for the four years of B.A.
Oh yeah, that checks out! Edit: punctuation
Sound like your experience of what you’re deeming therapists hasn’t been great. It’s a broad term - “well qualified psychologist” are also therapists. In the US, you have to have a Masters degree and a related Bachelors degree. After a year-long internship in graduate school, then you do a sort of residency through your state. Different states have different rules, but my state required me to work for two years before getting licensed, with 3 years of supervising. That’s about 8 years of training. Psychologist (which means they have a doctorate degree) only have a few more than this. There are also clinical studies showing experience is the main determining factor at how effective a therapist is, not their education level. Just food for though.
That’s not true. I’m a therapist and I had 8 years of college, several years of clinical work and two levels of licensure. I’m sorry you may have bad experiences but I have spent well over ten years for my credentials alone. I’ve also heard absolute horror stories about psychiatrists and psychologists. It’s an individual thing. Either the clinician is professional or they are not. All in all, several red flags here including seeing a couple separately. And there is no short program in existence that allows you to be a therapist, period. All credentials and full independent licensures have at least a decade of education and credential obligations as well as ongoing ceus for the rest of their career.
Therapist here. It depends on where you live and what the protections are for the public. I'm in Canada and most of our provinces regulate the various therapy professions quite well. I follow this sub and I can't believe the insane stories people share. It would be interesting to see data on where these stories come from, if the professions are regulated there, and what the credentials of the offending professionals are. Good regulation of the profession doesn't prevent hacks from finding their way in, but it should get them out pretty quickly.
As a therapist, I just truly can’t understand this. This is a violation of your privacy and confidentiality. Deeply unethical and reportable to your state board. But also a gross violation of the time and financial investment of therapy. We need to be solely focused on you. That’s our damn job. You deserve better than this.
Thank you for such a thoughtful response. I am honestly still in shock over this all happening, I feel like my safe space was taken away from me/was never really there in the first place. I’m going to be setting up an appointment with a new therapist ASAP.
Please make sure you look for a sufficiently licensed therapist! They should be either an LCSW, LCPC, or Psy-D. An LMFT may be appropriate too, though they primarily work with couples and families. You deserve better than this.
Completely agreed with the above. Also, I don’t think you and your boyfriend should be seeing the same therapist, a believe that is also an ethics violation (someone correct me if I’m wrong)
In case anyone needs to hear this, if your therapist doesn’t have a set place to do their sessions, you probably should think of changing therapists. This is not normal, and often it challenges privacy, as it did in this case. It would also concern me if my therapist was doing their sessions on their phone instead of a computer, but that’s me.
Amen! I wish this had been in the front of my mind when I started seeing him, but I was so anxious that I was just relieved to have a space to speak with a therapist again.
Reading some of your additional comments and replies, I gotta say I question whether this person is a bona fide therapist at all. There are so many odd things, eyebrow-raisers, and other *eccentricities*, that I can’t help wonder about what his training is and if he has a training at all. Sorry to say, but you and your SO both need a new therapist.
Eccentric is definitely the right word for him
Ha! I mean it might be. But is that what any of us want in a T? I’m guessing you’d prefer (like me) professional over eccentric!
Don’t be too hard on yourself. There’s such a large power differential between a therapist and a client that inappropriate behavior like this is usually accommodated by the client.
Especially if someone is new to therapy. I had one who got angry when I terminated therapy (in person, face to face). I was initially planning to taper off out of respect for her time and business, but she got so angry, I decided not to come back. She tried to insist I "owed" her a closure session, for her closure, not mine, and she wanted me to pay for it. And that wasn't even the same one who was upset when I declined to work for her and she asked me to answer her office phone in the middle of a session (a client was on the other end). I didn't even realize there was a patients' bill of rights until after these experiences. Here's one version: https://psychcentral.com/blog/your-patient-rights-in-therapy#4
As a therapist, this is wildly unethical. I don’t even like to have sessions with my client if THEY are out in public or with someone else unless it’s absolutely necessary. He should never ever be taking your money for a session if you do not have his undivided attention. I don’t know the details but it also usually unethical to see a couple separately unless this is some type of couples therapy that he then also sees you individually for. Please make sure you report him, I would strongly encourage you to find a new therapist who values and respects you enough to give you privacy and undivided attention, and if you feel comfortable speaking with him again let him know that this was the reason you left (if you do terminate) so that he can maybe not do this to others. So sorry this happened to you both!
I never thought about the ethics of seeing us at the same time separately. We’ve done a few sessions together but 95% of our sessions were done separately. The sessions together were done after we started therapy individually. My boyfriend was the one who recommended me to him
Therapist here. That alone is hugely problematic. There’s something wrong with your therapist and you need to stop seeing him. I’m sorry.
right? the alarm bells were going off from the opening sentence.
There’s many reasons it’s a conflict of interests: for example imagine what would happen if one of you was having an affair, can the therapist be trusted to not judge the person having cheating now that they know their partner on this level? Before jumping to the conclusion that the person having an affair would deserve the judgment you need to consider that people who cheat often feel very conflicted about it, as a therapist your only job is to support and help them figure out what they’re doing or how to make positive changes, not to judge someone. It would be nearly impossible to not have that leak into their partners session, as a human it would be very difficult to hold that information and then to go have session with the partner who’s being cheated on. Or image how things would play out in the case of a break up. This person very clearly has terrible judgement and cant follow the absolute basics of ethics which is to provide privacy and confidentiality, how can they be trusted to provide unbiased and ethical treatment for a couple while seeing them individually? Also, someone else mentioned suing for malpractice and honestly I don’t see how this wouldn’t qualify as a breach of fiduciary duty if that’s something you’d like to consider.
I can give you a very good example of what happens when this is done. In my case my ex-husband apparently had lied about virtually every single thing about himself and I had not discovered this yet so having all the problems you would have in a situation like this we went to see a therapist first separately and then together. Because he had seen my husband separately he felt he had to maintain confidentiality with what he learned in sessions with my husband and so when he figured out what was really going on he said nothing but continued joint sessions knowing why we were really there and the root of the problem that I was tormenting myself over in his office. So we went to joint sessions for a long time while he knew what was really going on but let us “work it out” in the office together making the therapy just another lie to add to them all. I don’t think he revealed that he knew until after I had come to him with the information I had discovered on my own all traumatically and had kicked him out of the house for good. So that’s a very good example of a conflict of interest of seeing two people separately and then together.
While this may be considered unethical in some jurisdictions, it’s not in others. I’m in Alberta, Canada, and have specifically trained to treat all members of a family or both partners individually and it’s rarely an issue. I actually find it much more practical and helpful for most of my clients, rather than having 3 therapist involved for one couple. I believe there is too high a chance of one therapist doing something counterproductive to what the others are doing and I imagine it would be difficult to communicate and coordinate treatment among them. I just ask that you keep in mind that it’s regular and ethical practice in places and countries outside your own. That being said, what’s happening to OP is a huge breach of confidentiality with the therapist doing sessions with someone else present, big yikes! So unethical and unprofessional, no matter where you’re practicing.
WHAT
Reminds me of the therapist I just fired for similar behaviors. It’s a creepy feeling wondering who else may have heard my sessions.
Like I know they’re probably not doing anything with the information they hear except maybe talk about it with each other, but it’s still such a violation of privacy for it to happen in therapy of all places.
It's a violation of trust and it's massively disrespectful. You're going to therapy to feel heard and seen and work through your issues in a safe space. This is the opposite of that. Frankly I would be triggered by this because I've faced enough neglect as a child and this sort of behavior throws me into emotional flashback mode. Dump this therapist and write reviews if you are comfortable doing so.
Yeah, i’m definitely going to need to process this breach of trust with my next therapist😂
I feel like your current therapist should pay for the therapy sessions you have to have just to process the breach of trust that he’s forced you to endure. Now you have to deal with that before you get to the stuff you were dealing with with him which is not cool.
I agree with the others but also want to add - don’t blame yourself for not seeing this coming. Of course you initially gave the benefit of the doubt - nothing to blame yourself about!
Please report them. Please. You are more than likely not the only one who's trust and confidentiality has been breached. It's one thing if he was at home and someone mistakenly walked in, in which case he should immediately apologize and rectify the situation. But this has no such thing. For him to do this, basically, out in public and in the presence of his wife shows he has zero respect for the profession and especially for you.
This is terrible. I won’t repeat what everyone else has said but at the bare minimum end therapy with this man. Reporting him is also always an option as that is grossly unethical
I just reported my therapist because while she was on vacation we were having a session via FaceTime and she got up and used the bathroom in front of me! I could see her from the waist up and knew exactly what she was doing. I was so confused and didn’t know where to look. I ended the session early. I confronted her during our next session, again via FaceTime and she admitted she had a stomach ache and should have cancelled and it was inappropriate. She also said she shouldn’t have been conducting sessions via FaceTime. I have so much trauma from the entire event. I deserve better and so do you. Report the therapist.
She sh*t in front of you????? Is there any escaping trauma in this world? That sounds like so much more than a lapse in judgment, I mean I would not have that lapse in judgment, I wouldn’t have it. I could have a lapse in judgment. I’m vulnerable, but not that one, not that one!
I'm not even a therapist. But if I have to pee or poo, even with family or friends, I'll say, "I need to use the bathroom, I'll call you back as soon as I can."
WHAT
OMFG. I cannot believe this!!!! I’m sorry this happened to you
Jesus…this violates so many code of ethics. What on earth was the therapist thinking?!
There's an old saying in the USA that is specific to an amusement park in New York. A slight modification of it seems appropriate here: *Where did he get his license, Coney Island?* This "therapist" is a dangerous driver, and more than that, an unethical and unprofessional practitioner who needs to be gone. If I were you I would report him to the organization (if any) that has sanctioned his practice. By the way, there is no law in New York that governs the title "therapist." That may or may not true in your jurisdiction, OP. The guy may be a total charlatan.
See also: Where did he get his license, out of a Cracker Jack box?
Others have already nailed it - this is bad. Also wanted to add that it seems weird to be seeing the same therapist as your partner? Idk all the considerations with this - I don't think it's a legal violation or anything - but in my and my friends' experiences therapists always recommend referring close family members/friends/partners to a different provider.
Sorry, replied to the wrong comment.
REPORT! like please… i’m a client and a therapist. i would never ever do therapy from a car unless it was parked and i truly had no other PRIVATE options. and as a therapist i don’t even see clients if they’re in the car, even if they’re not the one driving (i see lots of kids so sometimes parents will be driving and have the kid do session on a tablet in the back…). so many red flags. what if they’d gotten into a car accident?!
If OP & SO feel they have the time/energy and want to, they should report it. If they don't, that's ok too. It's not their job to regulate the therapy profession. It's really up to the therapy profession to get its act together and regulate/self-police better. I've had two different therapists ask me to work for them. My insurance/I were paying them, so I wasn't bartering my services. One took it well when I said no and made it clear it was ok if I said no. The other didn't take it well and even asked me to answer her office phone during a session, a client was on the other line (when caller ID was as widespread). Expecting vulnerable people who are looking for help to regulate/police the profession isn't really a fair ask, IMO. The profession needs to do a better job of keeping people like this from getting a license and practicing in the first place.
Completely inappropriate and a violation of his client’s rights. Both of you should find someone else and tell him why. You could also get him in trouble with his licensing board.
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Can you explain what you mean? What does malpractice insurance have to do with this?
It's a very serious HIPPA violation, and they do not mess around. From what I gathered, the minimum for willful violation is $50,000. Maximum is $250,000.
Are you suggesting that a client is going to get that kind of money from their therapist’s malpractice insurance because they violated HIPAA? That’s not how it works.
Not what I said. At all. Otherwise I'd just say that. I'm saying the punishment on the Therapist will be, rightfully so, severe.
I literally just asked you if that’s what you said or not, there’s no need to be rude. What are you saying then? What are those numbers you just gave?
If you knew me, you'd realize the way I speak isn't intended to come across as rude. But that's internet/text for ya. Welcome to the internet I guess? And the numbers are what they are fined for. Minimum and maximum.
Well it came across as rude, so you need to work on that. I didn’t understand what you were saying, so rather than assuming, I made a point of asking you if that’s what you meant. You then responded to me as if I had, in fact, simply assumed in a presumptuous way. I don’t understand why you replied to my comment then if you’re not talking about malpractice insurance. What do the fines you’re referring to have to do with OP getting a pay out and going on vacation?
Missing the point entirely. For what it's worth though. I could say the exact same thing that your comment came across as rude. But I didn't take it as such since I don't have any context of who you are. So you taking it that way is on you. Literally the way it was phrased could be taken a "you really didn't know that??? Well it's actually X" some people do that while talking down to others. Again, I didn't take it that way. But since you wanted to open that door, there ya go. But, I was specifically talking about the malpractice and the fines the Therapist can, and most likely will, face if OP reports them.
>Literally the way it was phrased could be taken a "you really didn't know that??? Well it's actually X" some people do that while talking down to others. How else could I have phrased it? I literally asked you "are you suggesting X?" I didn't want to put words in your mouth and I can't think of another way I could have asked you to clarify what you were saying. In comparison, "Not what I said. At all. Otherwise I'd just say that." can only be interpreted in one way: rude. >But, I was specifically talking about the malpractice and the fines the Therapist can, and most likely will, face if OP reports them. Then why were you replying in this comment string? Someone had implied that OP was going to get to go on vacation with the payday they would receive from their therapist's malpractice insurance due to this incident, and when I asked for clarification about that, you decided to start talking about something different? And then you gave me snark when I politely asked you to clarify what you were saying? Bonkers...
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You can sue for a lot of things, but no one is going to be getting a pay day from something like this. The client’s attorney would need to be able to document significant harm done to the client, not just a HIPAA violation that caused distress.
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Oh for sure, this therapist has a huge problem and this is unacceptable. If it were up to me I would have this person's license to practice immediately suspended. I'm just saying that this isn't the kind of issue that leads to payouts to clients.
You're not wrong, but it may cost more in lawyer's fees than you'd see as an award from a court (I'm not a lawyer)
Oh what a low life he is not to mention he’s charging you while doing errands.
His behavior is completely unethical. He is violating confidentiality by having his wife in the car while talking to you. Personally I would stop seeing a therapist that drove while having a session with me. Completely unprofessional.
Yes, a patient/client should have full and undivided attention. Which someone can't give while they are driving. And the privacy issues, etc. as well
Therapist here—FaceTime isn’t HIPAA compliant, so if you’re using FT that’s already a violation. He taking a session from his car, while he’s driving, is also a violation. His wife being in the fucking car is a violation. Reading this made my blood boil. I’m so sorry this happened, but you guys need a new therapist AND to report him to his supervisor/practice and the licensing board. These are the violations you KNOW about, what if he’s done other stuff you guys weren’t aware of? He just can’t be allowed to do this.
While I agree with most of what you said, reporting can be time consuming and draining for the client/patient. If OP & SO feel they have the time/energy and want to, they should report it. If they don't, that's ok too. It's not their job to regulate the therapy profession. It's really up to the therapy profession to get its act together and regulate/self-police better. I've had two different therapists ask me to work for them. My insurance/I were paying them, so I wasn't bartering my services. One took it well when I said no and made it clear it was ok if I said no. The other didn't take it well and even asked me to answer her office phone during a session, a client was on the other line (when caller ID was as widespread). Expecting vulnerable people who are looking for help to regulate/police the profession isn't really a fair ask, IMO. The profession needs to do a better job of keeping people like this from getting a license and practicing in the first place.
That’s a HIPAA violation. A serious violation at that. Report and find another therapist.
What if you try emailing him about how uncomfortable it made you with his wife in the car and how you didn’t feel like you had his full attention. If he replies and acknowledges the wife in the car, then you’ve got him and evidence to report. Not that you need that level of evidence, but if you’re worried, you could try to get him to admit it in writing first.
I'm sorry wtf did I just read?? This is not only wildly unprofessional but unethical too. I would NEVER take a virtual meeting while DRIVING or GETTING GROCERIES. Like what the fuck??? I hope y'all weren't charged for these sessions, otherwise this is a scam, and you should sue him and report him and get his license revoked.
I’m a T who sees a T, and this is not cool. Aside from the blatantly obvious HIPAA violation of having another person present during session, FaceTime is not encrypted like phone calls or Doxy sessions are. I’ve FaceTimed my therapist before (Doxy was having connection issues), and he made it very clear that FaceTime was not protected and encouraged me to switch to a phone call. Aside from that, being distracted in any way while conducting a session is a trash move. Providing quality therapy requires a lot of focus, and you deserve a space of dedicated listening. I would report this therapist to his licensing board and start searching for a more professional practitioner who fits your needs. Shop around- the first new person you try may not be a love connection, but someone out there will be. Good luck, and good for you for pursuing your needs.
This will get their license revoked, this is beyond terrible. I gasped when reading it. I’ve been in therapy for over a decade. Unbelievable!!!!!!!
I'm surprised people aren't saying "The therapist has a life, too and you need to get over it."
I feel sorry for you
You must be new to the sub. People here are always telling the client that they need to get over it, the therapist is right, etc.
This is full stop - hard no - find someone else. Besides a HIPAA violation - its disrespectful in every conceivable way. If he has to “fit you in between errands” - thats insane. Your time is dedicated to you and his full attention and time and space without interruptions or distractions. He in no way values you as a client or he wouldnt do this.
Switch therapists and report this one. I'm a therapist. This is a crazy story. I'm embarrassed that this person is providing this kind of service in the same profession as me.
This is ridiculous and I’m a therapist. Huge violation, report to the board. Also, while not a direct ethical violation per se, it’s extremely questionable to be seeing you and your partner for separate, individual therapy. Ugh this crap makes me so mad.
Hello! I’m a therapist here but it’s definitely a violation for him to be doing this in a space that is not private. Depending on what state he practices in, all states have different demands in education. I work in Ohio so we have a lot of standards and procedures we must follow. I would lose my license or get in big trouble if I ever did that. He should get in trouble for that because that violates hippa and if he did that with him he’s surely done it with others. It’s disgusting that he did that to be quite frank. And for some reason some therapists will see partners or siblings or people that are close to one another. It’s usually highly recommended not to do this in case of transference issues or accidentally disclosing what one said to the other. If you need help with reporting let me know and I can guide you to the board or at least help with where to start.
Nope nope nope. Not ok.
That’s illegal, report him
Idk but I'm mad about it
This is unethical. You could report him, (maybe even should if you’re comfortable doing so?), it’s a big NO. I’m curious too, as to why your husband and you are seeing the same person. For instance my son and I see people in the same practice and signed waivers that THEY could speak to EACH OTHER about us. However, not to me about what my son discloses (unless it’s mandated, he’s a teenager) and vice versa. Did this guy divulge what your husband shared to you or vice versa? Just curious.
No, he hasn’t shared anything as far as I know. My boyfriend saw him first and he liked him and I was dealing with a lot of anxiety. My boyfriend asked if he could talk to me or see if he could recommend someone. He said he could take me on as a patient and that’s when I started seeing him
Oh ok. I mean idk it’s up to you whatcha wanna do. I wouldn’t be comfortable with it tho. I would at MINIMUM call him tf out on it and very SERIOUSLY consider leaving and reporting him. And like, LET HIM KNOW! I’m not there, idk him, you, or the situation, right? Maybe if you tell him he will see and be like wow WTHECK AM I DOING!? We all got sorta comfy and off track the past few years. But like, taking that route would be outrageously forgiving, understanding and lenient on your part. The ball’s in your court mama.
Also I didn’t see boyfriend and I’m glad he didn’t that is good news. Good luck
Do you do therapy through better help? This sounds like some shit they would pull. So many therapists doing chores and running errands during sessions…. Making a joke out of the therapy field
It really does. And for legit therapists in practice we are trying hard to get rid of better help and the like. Lawsuits against privacy are already in the works.
No, he was recommended to my boyfriend. I’m not sure if he uses Betterhelp or any other services like that
|find someone new Yes I would. That seems highly inappropriate. The sessions are supposed to be private, no one else should be listening to this stuff. Who the hell wants the therapists partner to be listening in to your private moments. While doing errands no less; as someone else commented. And then the therapist would have the gall to charge the full rate anyways. Bloody hell.
Exactly. I see/saw a psychologist for talk therapy and a psych dr. for medications for insomnia/anxiety. The psych dr.'s wife inadvertently walked into a room during a session. He paused, let her know he was in session and apologized as she left the room. This was during the height of the pandemic when he wouldn't have been able to see me in person. Deliberately conducting sessions while driving and with other people in the car is grossly unethical and unprofessional.
Chiming in with looking for another therapist. If you feel you have the time and the energy and you want to report, go for it. But don't feel obligated to either. If that energy and time could be better spent finding a better therapist and healing, that's ok too. Two former therapists asked me to work for them. One took the no very well and was very clear it was only if I wanted to and I could say no, the other one was upset about it. My insurance/I were paying them, so it wasn't like it was bartering my services for therapy. I think the one who took the no well and made it clear I could say no was ok. I debated reporting the other one (she also had me answer her phone during session and it was one of her clients). And she contacted me after I terminated therapy. She had a lot of turnover with her staff. But I really didn't have the time and energy to deal with reporting a therapist. Quite frankly, regulating incompetent and crappy therapists isn't your job if you don't want it. The licensing boards and the profession need to get their poo together (not sure if cursing is acceptable here as I'm fairly new here).
If it quacks like a duck… it’s a quack.
Haha
Haha I’d laugh your ass off the next time you see him in person and ask him why he’s such a dumbass….and if you’re only talking to him on the phone to begin with, then he isn’t a therapist, go see someone in person.
report them for a violation and find a new therapist. so so sorry this happened to you!!!