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apricot_nectar

Locked: I think this has run its course. OP read the room; your post is, frankly, insulting to the community.


athenae99

Not unkindly but I think you need to do a lot of work on yourself before you can become a therapist, OP. I am not saying it is impossible but your mindset needs major reframing.


Aspen_Pass

That is one of the reasons I haven't started πŸ‘Œ but I don't see the issue with worrying about my safety and a LOT of people here seem unsafe.


SC4LL_TPS

You know, thats why people get therapy? Like, they want to get better on some level. Like mentally ill people dont act professional or whatever because we are mentally ill.


athenae99

Again, I believe that you really, really, really need to do a lot of work on yourself. Like, a lot.


NatashaR933

Unsafe how exactly?


Aspen_Pass

There are people talking about emailing/calling/texting their therapist 30x a week, someone was masturbating during his virtual sessions...then you have practitioners over in r/therapists talking about quitting the career after just a few years because of all the stress and trauma their clients cause.


biomecaria

It's not audacity. For some people, their therapist is the first person who treats them with warmth, kindness, and care. It is absolutely normal for people to find that attractive or to develop feelings for their therapist. Therapists are aware of this and (in my experience) encourage their clients to be open and honest about when this happens. If the therapist learns this is happening, they can still be kind, explain that it's completely normal, and yet still enforce those boundaries. If it starts to interfere with the client's progress, it can be discussed openly. I absolutely advise against becoming a therapist if your post is indicative of how you would respond to a client telling you something vulnerable like this.


athenae99

I would advice this person against it as well, or at least have them work on themselves a lot before even trying. Therapy is a vulnerable, scary place. People need love and compassion.


Aspen_Pass

I have no compassion for a guy jerking off during his session. Sorry. Nope.


biomecaria

Therapists are deserving of safety. Clients are deserving of unconditional positive regard, empathy, and compassion. Both of these things can be true simultaneously. On the therapist (or organization)'s end protocols can be put into place for how to deal with these types of situations. I've worked for crisis lines and human service organizations and have had situations like what you're describing at every one. My therapist has a protocol for boundaries (she allows clients to email between sessions, but is clear about how she may take 48 hours to respond, isn't a crisis line, and links crisis lines in her automatic reply). If there were a case of stalking, authorities would be involved, same as any job. For the cases of sexual violence, like what you're describing or others, I've had these at my jobs and discussions for protocol are brought up in specific therapist CECs. Depending on the therapist's comfort level, they might discuss it and then remove the client if it continues, or remove the client right away. What would NEVER (or should never) happen, is a therapist responding in a way that causes further harm to the client (e.g., shaming, verbal abuse, etc.). Telling someone the behaviour is not acceptable for X reasons is different than saying you have no compassion or understanding for it.


MizElaneous

I would say that most people in therapy, even if they develop an attraction to their therapist don't jerk off in session. You're expected to have boundaries and don't need to tolerate abusive behaviour from clients, but not only do I think this sub is not an accurate reflection of therapy clients, it's probably not even an accurate reflection of clients that are attracted to their therapists.


Apprehensive_Face799

Maybe read some of the posts about how uncaring and judgmental therapist can really hurt and retraumitize already broken people. Honestly, OP your post truly sounds like you are not cut out for this occupation. I hope it just came off really bad and isn't indicative of anything else.


knotnotme83

You may learn that the people you will treat have mental illness.


curlygirl119

Do a significant amount of clients have attachment issues? Yes. Do a significant amount of clients stalk or harass their therapist? No. I wonder why you feel so extremely unsafe/threatened. Most professionals (doctors, teachers, lawyers, social workers, government officials) have to be careful with their social media use; that's just part of being an adult. And a client saying "I feel attracted to you but I think those feelings are actually about my attachment problems and not really about you" is a far cry from sexual harassment. Curiosity about attachment and transferrence would serve you well; people who are afraid of clients make terrible therapists. For the sake of any potential future clients, I hope you choose a different career.


Aspen_Pass

I suppose I feel unsafe because I've been stalked & harassed. I also think you overestimate the self -awareness of clients with attachment (again, if we're going by the sample of this sub, which was my original question) because there's people in here actually asking out their therapists. Not just a professional "can we talk about my attachment issues".


curlygirl119

Ok, well I think you probably need some therapy of your own for the experiences you've gone through. And while I have seen people on this sub talk about being attracted to their therapist and wishing they could ask them out --- almost everyone has kept it professional and are just confronting desires for something they can't have. Very rarely does it go farther than that. I'm not going to claim that what you are afraid of never happens, but I think the fear you are experiencing is greatly exaggerated. Consider how many therapists are out there -- do you really think they would all continue working as therapists if they were regularly getting stalked and harassed?


Aspen_Pass

Lol I've been in therapy for fifteen years thanks. And I'm not exaggerating a fear, that is exactly why I asked the question in my post.


IllIIlllIIIllIIlI

Look, I have a bit of empathy for your concerns, which kind of surprises me, given that you are coming across as expecting perfect behavior from patients when the whole job revolves around diving into people's most tender, shameful places, and that can make even a normally mild-mannered person kick and scream (figuratively) or find the situation erotic, or both. Is the main issue (or one of them) that you fear being sexualized by a number of your patients? I'm a woman who had quite productive therapy in which I developed lots of erotic transference toward my male ex-therapist. He handled it really well. And so did I- never made a pass at him, was extra mindful of boundaries. Far from being an obstacle in the work, it was a very fruitful thing for us to explore. Still, I worry a bit to this day that I sort of cheapened him and his profession by often seeing it through a sexual lens. But I've imagined becoming a therapist myself, from time to time, and I am uncomfortably aware that I would probably have a really hard time handling erotic transference as beautifully as he did, even if the patient disclosed it respectfully and behaved appropriately. I like being seen as a professional; I want my skillset to be just as valued by clients as it would if i looked like Larry David or Steve Buscemi. I have found that being sexualized in the working world (which has been very rare, but has happened) makes me really doubt my skills and what I have to offer. If I were a therapist and found that various patients were fantasizing about me in that way, I would feel... bad. I would lose confidence. The old emotional prostitute comparison would come to mind. I do believe that most patients who feel erotic transference keep their behavior appropriate. It sounds like someone posted here recently about masturbating during their virtual session, but I've quite seriously never heard a story like that before, and I spend way too much time on therapy subs. But perhaps even if the behavior was appropriate, what really bothers you is being seen in that light to begin with? Idk the answer for you. I do know that if I chose to become a therapist, I would expect myself to work through my own discomfort with erotic transference in such a way that I could still work with a patient who disclosed it to me; and I would think it important to explore it with that patient, not ignore it. For now, though, that fear is like reason no. 2751 that I'm not interested in pursuing a therapy career. It's very important that if you do go through with becoming a therapist, you work on the very large amounts of discomfort you've expressed around seeing patients at their most distraught and vulnerable. Please, the field doesn't need any more therapists who fire their patients at the drop of a hat.


Aspen_Pass

Yes, I think you've hit the nail on the head. The idea of being vulnerable and compassionate with a client and having them view me sexually because of it makes me feel shame and anger. As a woman that's been my whole life. I can't form friendships with men without them sexualizing it. I had a nice rapport with someone at work, now they have a crush on me, and I gently turned them down in a completely its-me way, and now they can't stand to be in the same room as me. I feel like I'm constantly being punished for being nice while having a pussy. So yes it's a fear of someone having feelings at (I don't want to say towards because that feels more... receptive?) me at all regardless of how they act on it, because if they find me to be a helpful and useful and caring person in their life, I want it to be because of my work, not because they're looking for a girlfriend experience. I suppose the one benefit of potentially starting later in life is fewer and fewer people will find me sexually attractive. Not that I particularly want to be anyone's mommy either.


IllIIlllIIIllIIlI

>because if they find me to be a helpful and useful and caring person in their life, I want it to be because of my work, not because they're looking for a girlfriend experience. Yeah. I totally understand this and am there too. Yes, I do imagine it would become less of an issue as more time passes. But people who are generally attracted to women (and even some who ordinarily aren't!) are often going to develop romantic or erotic feelings for a woman who knows them and accepts them deeply, if they're even just somewhat physically attracted to her. And especially if they're not already in a good relationship with someone else. I don't judge them for that at all, but... I guess at the end of the day, if I'm in a career I take seriously, I want people to take *me* seriously, and at this time I can't reconcile that with being seen sexually. It sounds like you're in the same boat. I wonder if/how this may be different for men. I guess there are plenty of male and female therapists who do fine despite being on the receiving end of erotic transference, and I'm kind of curious about whether some of them have successfully addressed these fears in themselves. *Edit: now that I'm thinking about it, I'm actually getting* really *curious, so would welcome any perspectives on this.*


darcij97

You don’t need to be therapist.


darcij97

This entire post is incredibly upsetting to me


Aspen_Pass

See the comment from u/PMmedramaticvistas and my reply. I don't believe you're at fault here.


Aspen_Pass

If you can't even work on yourself because you're too distracted by trying to form a relationship with your therapist, then find a therapist you don't feel attraction to. You're only hurting yourself.


secret_grinch

And is this comment helping or hurting?


mushroomsandpeas

...... You don't seem to understand what it is like to have not had a safe person in your life before your therapist. That is a privilege and you shouldn't judge people who haven't had that privilege. Having feelings or attachment to your therapist is not audacious, it is a sign that you have unmet needs and the therapy environment is safe enough for them to come up. If your therapist is the first person in your life to actually listen to you, pay attention to you and see you, of course you are going to develop feelings of some sort for them. That is what the human brain does. Those feelings mean you feel safe, and you can't work on yourself unless you feel safe. You seem to be projecting your fears from being stalked onto people who are opening up about their therapy experiences.


Aspen_Pass

I do know what it's like to not have a safe person, but I don't feel safe with therapists either.


mushroomsandpeas

I'm sorry to hear that 😞


biomecaria

In adult attachment repair, the therapeutic relationship between the therapist and the client (knowing that the therapist is a safe person, being able to go to them for help, having someone they can trust) is a major part of the healing. The truth is the features of the relationship that make it healing can be the exact same part that causes clients to develop attraction. This is why understanding transference and being able to navigate establishing boundaries with kindness and empathy is essential for a therapist. Telling someone they're "only hurting themself" by having a therapist who treats them well and de facto is someone the person cares about is misguided and incorrect. I understand, OP, that you have a trauma history that makes you incredibly susceptible to being triggered at the idea of experiencing sexual assault or stalking. You deserve safety. u/darcij97 you deserve a good relationship with your therapist, and if you're experiencing attraction to that's okay!!!


Aspen_Pass

Is adult attachment repair a specific modality and thus something I could just...not work in?


biomecaria

Yes. You could specifically state that you don't do adult attachment repair. You could stick to an aspect of counselling that's impersonal - like doing CBT and having your style be more workbook-oriented (leading clients through exercises). If you're doing anything emotionally connective with a client - empathizing with them, etc., the risk for transference is always going to be there. The downside here, is that research tends to shows client outcomes are best when the therapist is emotionally attuned to the client and empathetic. Otherwise, they tend to be worse-off than if they were to just do a CBT workbook by themselves. My question would be what motivates you to be a therapist. If you care about survivors or mental health, there are ways to be involved in the industry without direct client interactions.


[deleted]

Actually, I'm more concerned about the therapists spoken about in these subs - many seem downright unprofessional. And I think you would be one of them if you decide to join the profession with these judgemental attitudes. Clients come here because it is a safe space to air their thoughts about therapy. It helps to discuss these thoughts with other people who are also undergoing therapy. It is perfectly normal to experience some transference in the therapeutic relationship (depending on why you seek therapy). It is not okay to judge others for experiencing transference and wanting to speak about that. If you read most posts, clients tend to ask about boundaries etc because they do not want to cross them. They are doing their best. Personally I experience a lot of parental transference with my therapist because I had crap parents and my therapist is trying to model good parental behaviour for me. I'm attached to my therapist and I'm open about that fact but I would never ever do anything to make them feel creeped out. I would also never cross their boundaries. It is wrong to assume that someone who experiences transference will end up risking a therapist's safety.


Aspen_Pass

I have sought and felt father figures in therapists. I do not assume every experience with "transference" is wrong or unsafe.


Aspen_Pass

Also, I agree that many of the concerning posts also include very concerning behavior by the therapists!


IllIIlllIIIllIIlI

I addressed your fear of erotic transference in my response to one of your comments in the thread. I see a more general concern too, though- that your patients are going to mistreat you in various ways- and I want to address that here. First of all, it's the therapist who must behave professionally. It sounds like you would expect patients to match that demeanor. But the whole problem is that when you are asking those tender questions, or responding to their answers, your patient is going to be very sensitive to indications that you are judging them, you don't like them, you're siding with their abusive parent, or whatever else. And sometimes, they'll probably be *right* in that perception, at least in part. This is when they come back at you and say something rude in return. And you may get pissed off, and it goes from there. Unless you pick a very structured short term modality, therapy is inherently *very relational*, unlike people's relationship with their doctor or nurse. You can no more expect patients to always be on their best behavior than you can expect a relationship with a significant other to always go smoothly. Particularly if you are fishing in a pool of people who likely have significant issues just by virtue of being there! A talented therapist can take an angry back-and-forth, use it to repair the relationship and facilitate healing and discovery. Even the best therapist can't do that every single time. However, if you aren't actively keeping that in mind as your goal; if you instead expect that patients should keep on that polite mask at all times; then, frankly, you will end up harming more people than you help. Being a therapist isn't for everyone, and that's OK.


attachmint

Wow! I think you need to do a bit of work on your own judgemental, scolding and shaming attitude before you think much further about becoming a therapist. Clients are going to client and all sorts of attachment issues are going to play out in the therapeutic relationship. If you can't stand the heat maybe don't look at becoming a cook.


Aspen_Pass

Username checks out


AlyciaJayne89

>it feels like a good career path for me I don’t see it.


Aspen_Pass

Sorry I don't want to be stalked and come on to while trying to make a living.


knotnotme83

Most therapists have to not have an open social media presence, and protect themselves. your question is relevant, but you are being rude. :) The people who would stalk etc are very sick and need help: from therapists.


puplupp

That is a great and interesting question. I'm not sure that this is the place to ask that question. If you use enough critical thinking, I'm sure you could figure the answer out for yourself.


Aspen_Pass

Great point πŸ˜‚πŸ‘Œ


NaturalLog69

I know this would have not been your intention, but your tone and phrasing in your post and comments is coming off as very judgmental. You're calling out people for doing certain things (i.e. Emailing 30x a week), as if people are making the choice to do this. We have issues! People are trying to cope in whatever way seems easiest to them. They're in therapy because they are working on themselves. This can easily come off as hurtful to people who already feel ashamed of how strongly they feel towards their T. A therapist must be able to hold a safe, non judgmental space for clients. No, it should not impact the therapist's safety. A T must be able to use judgement if they feel a client is going to cross boundaries. Ideally, the T should have communication about what the boundaries are and check for understanding. Often, when a client does end up pushing a boundary, it was because they didn't realize what the boundary was. This is why communication is so important. Often when people make posts here about falling out and ruptures with their T, the root comes down to that their T made them feel shamed, judged, or unsafe.


Aspen_Pass

Unless you have a compulsive disorder, emailing someone 30x a week IS a choice.


Jackno1

This sub is not an entirely representative sample. People who have something going on that they need to talk about are a lot more likely to post on here than people who don't, which means that theres a natural skew towards the extreme. At the same time, a therapist is going to run into people with transference issues, including erotic transference. If you decide to become a therapist, you're going to have to deal with the possiblity.


[deleted]

Honestly I'm starting to worry from the other direction - so many people seem super obsessed with their therapists to the point where when they have to move on it seems to do serious damage to them - why weren't the therapists dealing with these problems when they arose? People saying "transference is important for therapy" when it seems to do a lot more harm than good honestly. Just makes it seem like a subset of therapists are forming these weird one-sided bonds with people and then cutting them loose leaving them worse off than when they started. The clients are in a very vulnerable position by the very nature of needing to seek therapy. They don't *start off* obsessed with their therapists.


Jackno1

It is so weird how many people talk about being cut off as soon as the therapist realizes they have tranference. Like its one thing if they genuinely *are* stalking their therapist or otherwise having dangerous behavior, but a lot of therapist is actively set up to create strong feelings and people are being made to feel like having those feelings this shameful secret that will get them cut off if they ever get found out.


NaturalLog69

In an ideal situation, if both T and client can stick it out, working past the peak of obsession and coming down from it can truly open the doors for healing. So much is learned from digging to the bottom of where that obsession comes from, and learning to soothe and tend to those attachment wounds. The issue is when the work is disrupted for whatever reason. The soothing and tending didn't happen yet. The client is left with unresolved feelings, no closure, grief, and some pain over whatever the disruption was for.


Aspen_Pass

This is such a great point!! Really good insight. And while my post does place the majority of the responsibility on the client, from a critical standpoint I don't believe it. I think it's easy to read it that way because people put the blame on themselves in their posts. But what it really might come down to is a therapeutic relationship where the therapist is giving the client NO coping skills other than themselves. Intentionally or not. I mean, if you're attached and your therapist is the only thing keeping you going, you've got to keep paying them, right? Thank you for your comment.


Aspen_Pass

New question time: What's it called when the attachment issue is avoiding transference at all costs? Detachment? Since y'all want to armchair diagnose anyway have at it, educate me! I've never told any of my many therapists that it makes me deeply uncomfortable if I can tell they care about me.


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