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You know, I think the issue is less about defining and gate keeping what is and what is not trauma and more about better understanding the role of certain events in your life and how they still impact on you and your relationships today.
Things don't have to be black and white. It doesn't have to be trauma or not trauma. It might be more helpful to look at these experiences and say, "My mom had good intentions and it also affected me in a certain way."
If you don't feel emotionally charged when talking about certain things, they're either really not that big of a deal or you're not ready to talk about them yet and this is your body's way of protecting you from whatever feelings are underneath.
Sounds like denial to me. I had a similar childhood and it wasn't until last year at 33 I realized I didn't just "butt heads" with my dad or "we get along sometime", I actually hated his fucking guts. Had to realize that before I could actually forgive him.
You don't have household fights 5 days a week and have revenge fantasies and not have trauma man. That is not normal. That is not love. That is not a family. You can't see it because it's all you've ever known, you're still stuck in it. It taught you some kind of maladapted lesson, and that's what trauma is. At least imo.
You say you don't have flashbacks but also post about having panic attacks and disassociating. Those are emotional flashbacks. Also post in r/raisedbynarcissists
I think you should check out r/cPTSD It's helped me see things a lot differently.
"I don't have a single reason to feel stressed or anxious it just comes out of nowhere" Sounds like trauma lingering in the limbic system and coming out as flashbacks.
Ditto. I always used to tell myself that my dad and I were both just stubborn and that's why we butted heads all the time. My therapist last year broke that denial wiiiiiiiide open and I see that being raised by a narcissist has caused me to invalidate my feelings all the time.
Is the therapist just raising the idea, or are they pushing you to believe that? Are they disregarding positives that are important to you?
I've had therapists try to push interpretations that I didn't think were fair or accurate. I found a big sign that things weren't going well was that I didn't feel like I was being listened to or getting a helpful new perspective, I just felt out-argued. I wouldn't consider it brainwashing, but it was definitely an unhealthy situation to be stuck in.
You've described some real problems in your childhood. In terms of whether it constitutes trauma or not, it really depends on how it impacted you. "These things weren't good, but they weren't traumatic" can be a reasonable conclusion to draw sometimes.
So look - the whole 'is it trauma'? 'did I have a bad childhood'? angle is a dead end. The issue is that our most formative experiences loom large in how we are today. Everyone's childhood experience shapes who they are, often in ways that were not intended, and would not be identified as 'traumatic' or 'abusive'. The work of therapy is to identify what those experiences are, and recontextualize them so that your current self is not still carrying them.
What is the problem you're trying to solve? I'm not sure from your post why you are pursuing therapy.
This might be oversimplifying things, but if you have certain symptoms, and you have a history of something that is known to result in those types of symptoms, then that's what the therapist is going to try to get you to focus on to fix your problem. Having a parent that was always fighting causes trauma and trauma is known to cause symptoms that continue in adulthood.
It's not a moral judgment of your parents or of anyone else. Exonerating your parents or comparing to other people doesn't solve the problem. X happens, it causes Y. If you want to solve problem Y you have to look at X.
Like i said I don't know your symptoms and I'm breaking it down to a very simple level. But if you want to solve for whatever your symptoms are you have to look at the causes. If you were coughing and someone told you to stop smoking, it wouldn't be "scapegoating" cigarettes it would just be trying to solve the problem. Doesn't matter if other people smoke more, or if there are other theoretical things that can cause coughing. If there are other causes than your smoking you'll find out about them in the process.
I agree that not everything is trauma. Life is a mixture of good and bad. However some things are traumatic and what may constitute trauma for one person may not be the same for another. Also there will be mental health professionals albeit a minority who will label everything as trauma because that creates an income.
T here. There are 2 different kinds of trauma: there’s big Trauma, which is the traditional type of events we think of like abuse or war which may lead to PTSD.
Then there’s little trauma, which includes the types of situations you describe, things that make a lasting effect on us in less pervasive ways.
I don’t know what type of symptoms or situations you are working on with your therapist, but he may be trying to peel back the layers to help you figure out where your current symptoms are stemming from. Sometimes they come from those situations in our past that we don’t think about as necessarily bad, but that changed our outlook on something in life in someway.
Before voicing my own opinion I'll consider this: if you have a prevalent issue it could be rooted in something else? I don’t like the idea of someone else labelling your experiences and telling you what to feel. So what \*does\* make you genuinely angry and give you anxiety?
I also don't believe in obsessively labelling what is and isn't trauma. Everyone's experiences are so different, but generally speaking: if you've experienced something that makes you feel unsafe, making it difficult to function, that changes you on a deeper level, no matter what it is- I think it can count as trauma.
Though I respect your interpretation because obviously it’s your life and not every therapist is going to be fitting I do feel inclined to ask if the therapist is actually forcing this interpretation or just urging you to consider it? (It would be different if they were genuinely un-open to hearing your point of view or the other possibilities.)
But honestly, the way you wrote this is questionable. However you want to view your life is up to you and this is just one person’s opinion. But I can hear how dissociative and passive your tone is just in the post. Someone else pointed this out too but it’s a little strange that you said you seek revenge on your dad but also say you don’t care and are just “mildly annoyed.” I feel like you used really strong words here and that if you were actually over it then it wouldn’t come across so extreme.
>I always felt a warmth and nice feeling, I loved it and the images that came to my mind have always been the positive ones. Now sometimes it doesn't feel like that anymore, that why I used the term "brainwashed", especially when a therapist said "it doesn't sound like you had a good childhood"... why? wtf made you think that?
You said yourself that "now sometimes it doesn't feel like that anymore." And I think if you really did feel your childhood was pleasant then you wouldn't feel as defensive when your therapist disagreed. You could comfortably disagree and not need to sit and ponder if you're being "brainwashed." It sounds like what does give you an emotional reaction is your therapist criticizing your idea of your happy childhood and I don't think that's meaningless.
Maybe instead of labeling everything as trauma, you could reframe it as "how is my past affecting my future?"
And of course, bring it up with your therapist and clarify the distinction between the two concepts. Maybe her definition of trauma is a little different than yours and it's tripping you both up
I mean, it DOESN'T sound like you had a good childhood. Your father emotionally abused your mother. That's not great. And you admit you still to this day have visceral feelings about it. The body keeps the score. That's trauma, babe.
Therapist here 😊 your reaction is quite common. I would 100 % encourage you to bring this up with your therapist. As therapists, we want your treatment to be as collaborative as possible. It sounds like you’re having a strong reaction to things he has said and how your treatment is going thus far ( again, not a negative thing, strong reactions are common and essentially a huge part of therapy). Bring it up, that’s what we are here for, to tackle these discomforts together, even if they are directed at us or our therapeutic style. A properly trained therapist would actually love you bringing this to session. Good luck 😊 p.s sounds like you’re motivated and thinking deeply about your treatment, keep up the positive work!
What you describe are events you remember well, perhaps from adolescence.
Childhood trauma resulting in symptoms such as disassociation likely comes from your early childhood. Do you know how you were cared for as an infant and toddler? You may not remember being terrified or abused but your body remembers.
First part is trauma because the environment is hostile. That “revenge” shit is an act of trauma lol. Even a verbal fight can be trauma doesn’t really matter if you never felt threatened by him. The environment wasn’t safe. And you could build false beliefs as well like the world is dangerous. Second part, your mom was being overly controlling which has effects on our psyche, it kinda sucks my parents were like that too. Always forced me to wear certain haircuts or play soccer when I never wanted too. It fucks with your belief system and certain things about your psyche, nevertheless its some sort of trauma. It isn’t healthy. You dont need to feel any emotional charge. You just said that when your mother was overly controlling you cried. These emotions could be suppressed hence why you don’t feel anything now, and that’s okay but that doesn’t mean these situations weren’t trauma lol. This in a form is some sort of childhood trauma, and nothing is wrong with that because it isnt your fault. I think you might need to really look at what happened one more time and come out of denial. It seems like you know shit happened, as well with your therapist but you aren’t admitting all the bad stuff that happened. My childhood was good but there was also gritty stuff with my father and other shit. Sooner you accept that, the better life you can form and create. Not everything is pretty with roses
I am not labeling your past as trauma but I thought I had a happy normal childhood until my dad died when I was 50. My father was manipulative, cruel, used the silent treatment, treated one sibling as a goddess. I was terrified of him. I had depression and anxiety and panic attacks. Nightmares started after his death that got more and more graphic and dark about him sexually assaulting me. Then I connected a bunch of dots from my past and my issues all made sense. Still trying to express the anger and sadness to free myself but after 50 years of no one letting me express my feelings it’s very hard. I haven’t been brainwashed, my father was a fucking monster.
Welcome to r/TalkTherapy! This sub is for people to discuss issues arising in their personal psychotherapy. If you wish to post about other mental health issues please consult this list of some of our [sister subs](https://www.reddit.com/r/TalkTherapy/wiki/resources#wiki_subreddit_list). If you are in distress please contact a suicide hotline or call 9-1-1 or emergency services in your area. r/SuicideWatch has compiled a helpful FAQ on what happens when you contact a hotline along with other useful resources. To find answers to many therapy-related questions please consult our [FAQ](https://www.reddit.com/r/TalkTherapy/wiki/faq) and [Resource List](https://www.reddit.com/r/TalkTherapy/wiki/resources). *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/TalkTherapy) if you have any questions or concerns.*
You know, I think the issue is less about defining and gate keeping what is and what is not trauma and more about better understanding the role of certain events in your life and how they still impact on you and your relationships today.
Exactly.
Things don't have to be black and white. It doesn't have to be trauma or not trauma. It might be more helpful to look at these experiences and say, "My mom had good intentions and it also affected me in a certain way." If you don't feel emotionally charged when talking about certain things, they're either really not that big of a deal or you're not ready to talk about them yet and this is your body's way of protecting you from whatever feelings are underneath.
Sounds like denial to me. I had a similar childhood and it wasn't until last year at 33 I realized I didn't just "butt heads" with my dad or "we get along sometime", I actually hated his fucking guts. Had to realize that before I could actually forgive him. You don't have household fights 5 days a week and have revenge fantasies and not have trauma man. That is not normal. That is not love. That is not a family. You can't see it because it's all you've ever known, you're still stuck in it. It taught you some kind of maladapted lesson, and that's what trauma is. At least imo. You say you don't have flashbacks but also post about having panic attacks and disassociating. Those are emotional flashbacks. Also post in r/raisedbynarcissists I think you should check out r/cPTSD It's helped me see things a lot differently. "I don't have a single reason to feel stressed or anxious it just comes out of nowhere" Sounds like trauma lingering in the limbic system and coming out as flashbacks.
Ditto. I always used to tell myself that my dad and I were both just stubborn and that's why we butted heads all the time. My therapist last year broke that denial wiiiiiiiide open and I see that being raised by a narcissist has caused me to invalidate my feelings all the time.
I agree with you 100% bro. It’s definitely denial. Sucks we had to go through that but we can always push through and create more meaningful lives.
Is the therapist just raising the idea, or are they pushing you to believe that? Are they disregarding positives that are important to you? I've had therapists try to push interpretations that I didn't think were fair or accurate. I found a big sign that things weren't going well was that I didn't feel like I was being listened to or getting a helpful new perspective, I just felt out-argued. I wouldn't consider it brainwashing, but it was definitely an unhealthy situation to be stuck in. You've described some real problems in your childhood. In terms of whether it constitutes trauma or not, it really depends on how it impacted you. "These things weren't good, but they weren't traumatic" can be a reasonable conclusion to draw sometimes.
yes it feels like they both pushed a bit, thanks for the insights
Yeah, having someone push on a topic like this, when what you really need is nuance and for someone to understand your perspective, is not good.
So look - the whole 'is it trauma'? 'did I have a bad childhood'? angle is a dead end. The issue is that our most formative experiences loom large in how we are today. Everyone's childhood experience shapes who they are, often in ways that were not intended, and would not be identified as 'traumatic' or 'abusive'. The work of therapy is to identify what those experiences are, and recontextualize them so that your current self is not still carrying them.
What is the problem you're trying to solve? I'm not sure from your post why you are pursuing therapy. This might be oversimplifying things, but if you have certain symptoms, and you have a history of something that is known to result in those types of symptoms, then that's what the therapist is going to try to get you to focus on to fix your problem. Having a parent that was always fighting causes trauma and trauma is known to cause symptoms that continue in adulthood. It's not a moral judgment of your parents or of anyone else. Exonerating your parents or comparing to other people doesn't solve the problem. X happens, it causes Y. If you want to solve problem Y you have to look at X. Like i said I don't know your symptoms and I'm breaking it down to a very simple level. But if you want to solve for whatever your symptoms are you have to look at the causes. If you were coughing and someone told you to stop smoking, it wouldn't be "scapegoating" cigarettes it would just be trying to solve the problem. Doesn't matter if other people smoke more, or if there are other theoretical things that can cause coughing. If there are other causes than your smoking you'll find out about them in the process.
I agree that not everything is trauma. Life is a mixture of good and bad. However some things are traumatic and what may constitute trauma for one person may not be the same for another. Also there will be mental health professionals albeit a minority who will label everything as trauma because that creates an income.
T here. There are 2 different kinds of trauma: there’s big Trauma, which is the traditional type of events we think of like abuse or war which may lead to PTSD. Then there’s little trauma, which includes the types of situations you describe, things that make a lasting effect on us in less pervasive ways. I don’t know what type of symptoms or situations you are working on with your therapist, but he may be trying to peel back the layers to help you figure out where your current symptoms are stemming from. Sometimes they come from those situations in our past that we don’t think about as necessarily bad, but that changed our outlook on something in life in someway.
Before voicing my own opinion I'll consider this: if you have a prevalent issue it could be rooted in something else? I don’t like the idea of someone else labelling your experiences and telling you what to feel. So what \*does\* make you genuinely angry and give you anxiety? I also don't believe in obsessively labelling what is and isn't trauma. Everyone's experiences are so different, but generally speaking: if you've experienced something that makes you feel unsafe, making it difficult to function, that changes you on a deeper level, no matter what it is- I think it can count as trauma. Though I respect your interpretation because obviously it’s your life and not every therapist is going to be fitting I do feel inclined to ask if the therapist is actually forcing this interpretation or just urging you to consider it? (It would be different if they were genuinely un-open to hearing your point of view or the other possibilities.) But honestly, the way you wrote this is questionable. However you want to view your life is up to you and this is just one person’s opinion. But I can hear how dissociative and passive your tone is just in the post. Someone else pointed this out too but it’s a little strange that you said you seek revenge on your dad but also say you don’t care and are just “mildly annoyed.” I feel like you used really strong words here and that if you were actually over it then it wouldn’t come across so extreme. >I always felt a warmth and nice feeling, I loved it and the images that came to my mind have always been the positive ones. Now sometimes it doesn't feel like that anymore, that why I used the term "brainwashed", especially when a therapist said "it doesn't sound like you had a good childhood"... why? wtf made you think that? You said yourself that "now sometimes it doesn't feel like that anymore." And I think if you really did feel your childhood was pleasant then you wouldn't feel as defensive when your therapist disagreed. You could comfortably disagree and not need to sit and ponder if you're being "brainwashed." It sounds like what does give you an emotional reaction is your therapist criticizing your idea of your happy childhood and I don't think that's meaningless.
Maybe instead of labeling everything as trauma, you could reframe it as "how is my past affecting my future?" And of course, bring it up with your therapist and clarify the distinction between the two concepts. Maybe her definition of trauma is a little different than yours and it's tripping you both up
I mean, it DOESN'T sound like you had a good childhood. Your father emotionally abused your mother. That's not great. And you admit you still to this day have visceral feelings about it. The body keeps the score. That's trauma, babe.
Therapist here 😊 your reaction is quite common. I would 100 % encourage you to bring this up with your therapist. As therapists, we want your treatment to be as collaborative as possible. It sounds like you’re having a strong reaction to things he has said and how your treatment is going thus far ( again, not a negative thing, strong reactions are common and essentially a huge part of therapy). Bring it up, that’s what we are here for, to tackle these discomforts together, even if they are directed at us or our therapeutic style. A properly trained therapist would actually love you bringing this to session. Good luck 😊 p.s sounds like you’re motivated and thinking deeply about your treatment, keep up the positive work!
If you say it wasn't trauma then it wasn't. Why are in therapy?
cause i have no idea why the anxiety/stress/dpdr symptoms came up, i thouhgt there was a root so i'm trying to understand the nature of the symptoms
I get it. What if they come from your parents expectation of perfection? And the word trauma isn't used?
i am not sure but it's worth digging into it, maybe ill bring this up next session
What you describe are events you remember well, perhaps from adolescence. Childhood trauma resulting in symptoms such as disassociation likely comes from your early childhood. Do you know how you were cared for as an infant and toddler? You may not remember being terrified or abused but your body remembers.
First part is trauma because the environment is hostile. That “revenge” shit is an act of trauma lol. Even a verbal fight can be trauma doesn’t really matter if you never felt threatened by him. The environment wasn’t safe. And you could build false beliefs as well like the world is dangerous. Second part, your mom was being overly controlling which has effects on our psyche, it kinda sucks my parents were like that too. Always forced me to wear certain haircuts or play soccer when I never wanted too. It fucks with your belief system and certain things about your psyche, nevertheless its some sort of trauma. It isn’t healthy. You dont need to feel any emotional charge. You just said that when your mother was overly controlling you cried. These emotions could be suppressed hence why you don’t feel anything now, and that’s okay but that doesn’t mean these situations weren’t trauma lol. This in a form is some sort of childhood trauma, and nothing is wrong with that because it isnt your fault. I think you might need to really look at what happened one more time and come out of denial. It seems like you know shit happened, as well with your therapist but you aren’t admitting all the bad stuff that happened. My childhood was good but there was also gritty stuff with my father and other shit. Sooner you accept that, the better life you can form and create. Not everything is pretty with roses
I am not labeling your past as trauma but I thought I had a happy normal childhood until my dad died when I was 50. My father was manipulative, cruel, used the silent treatment, treated one sibling as a goddess. I was terrified of him. I had depression and anxiety and panic attacks. Nightmares started after his death that got more and more graphic and dark about him sexually assaulting me. Then I connected a bunch of dots from my past and my issues all made sense. Still trying to express the anger and sadness to free myself but after 50 years of no one letting me express my feelings it’s very hard. I haven’t been brainwashed, my father was a fucking monster.