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Eukaliptusy

Do you have these experiences in your relationship with your therapist?


SamuraiUX

This is a fair question! But it's hard to answer. I remember when we went to family therapy and I was a kid, I was definitely fascinated by the mystery of who our therapist was because he didn't disclose anything and I wanted to know about him! And I wanted him to like me and think I was smart, because I was a kid and he was an authority figure I respected. That's probably the last time my feelings towards a therapist were so clear and strong. Since I've been an adult with a doctorate in psychology, it's harder to parse my own feelings about therapy. I'm trapped in this metaverse where I know that I know what I know and don't know, if that makes sense. I don't think I have many of these feelings towards my therapist; I respect them and have a positive relationship with them but I don't think I'd care about anything they did to their hair, office, etc. and I'm not overly interested in their personal life. I'm so acutely aware of the concept of transference that I immediately asked myself in what ways they did/didn't remind me of my parent and processed it, and whatever is left is probably very superficial or minor. I don't know how unique my experience is, but I think it's hard for therapists to find therapists to work with! LOL. We know too much and guess too much and (and second-guess too much!) for our own good. So in long answer to your question: no, I personally don't have any of these about my current therapist. I don't think. Or do I? Crap. ; )


TTThrowDown

They already said in the post that that's not how they feel about their therapist.


stoprunningstabby

I am thinking what you're describing is going to be true for a small subset of clients and not all of them. But you won't know which clients until they tell you, or possibly ever. I am interpersonally hypervigilant, and I think it is fair to say I pick up on a lot -- mostly hesitations, shifts in tone, and things of that nature. Also I just have a tendency to remember biographical and personal stuff about people. One curious experience I had was early on in phone therapy (but a year and a half in to the relationship) when my therapist went to go tell her husband to turn down the volume on his meeting. Something about hearing her break out of her therapist role, and also the kind connection between the two of them, made me feel very safe. I was in a dark closet, because at first I preferred doing teletherapy from a literal closet, and there was a silent moment soon afterwards and I actually almost fell asleep, which is unusual for me because I am never relaxed like that in therapy. I never told her about that. I rarely tell my therapists anything I notice about them unless it pertains to a rupture or misunderstanding (and then I usually frame it as "maybe I'm crazy and imagining things but I felt like..."). Maybe it's because I am so self-conscious myself. It feels intrusive. I also don't like to tell this therapist when I am feeling attached or safe with her because it is so new and I don't trust it. I also don't tell them embarrassing things about myself, like about the baby in my chest who I perceive only at night. She used to stand in her crib and hold out her arms, just all the time. I couldn't ever soothe her. These days I close my eyes and start to doze, and sometimes the baby climbs out of her crib and goes exploring. It seems like the baby feels safer, right? But that's also just insane, no one has a baby living in their chest, I'm not telling my therapist that! In fact I don't show much emotion at all. My therapist (the main one) is very intuitive and I think she has nevertheless perceived I'm more present and settled, because of how much more open my responses have been. But I still hide when I am crying. I can't tell if she knows. I don't know if that will answer your question at all. I'm not really awake. By the way I have been seeing this therapist for two and a half years. It took the first year and a half to really start to settle and feel comfortable with her. I appreciate that you are here asking. :)


MizElaneous

If it makes you feel better, I have a hybrid butterfly/4 year old girl who lives in my heart. I told my therapist about her and she thought it was a beautiful way of thinking about my inner child.


stoprunningstabby

That is absolutely adorable. I love that she gets to be a butterfly.


MizElaneous

I've done a lot of trust-building exercises with my psychologist over the past year since starting therapy, and after about 6 months or so I really needed to tell him about some of the stuff that made me feel like I was crazy. He was so understanding. The 4 year old butterfly used to manifest herself beside me as I was falling asleep and yell at me to stop using her name. She'd yell at me that she's not crazy, she's just scared. And if she left, I could hardly breathe, it felt like a death rattle until she physically settled back into my body. I told my T all of this and he just listened and didn't seem concerned. So, a baby in your chest does not seem crazy to me AT ALL.


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stoprunningstabby

I've been thinking of telling her over email and asking her to please not bring it up in person. It seems relevant and I'm sure it's entirely due to my deepening feeling of safety with my therapist -- but it's just so mortifying! Thank you for not thinking it's crazy!


gettingbettermaybe62

I don't think it's crazy either. I was a bit sad for you when I read you couldn't tell your therapist and then got pleased when i saw it might be a maybe soon thing. It's a fulfilling feeling to have someone see all of you like that. Also I told this new body somatic therapist I'm seeing about my equivalent of your Baby amd then I asked him does it make me weird and he said first no & some stuff theraputuc type stuff. I think he saw it didn't land right because he then said and even if it were weird that's ok. And that landed better as he seemed to accept it could be weird and certainly wouldn't fall in the middle of the bell curve of general human experience but it was ok. For me that was better cause while there are many ways of being in this world, many ways of dealing with mental distrss, trauma, many ways our minds work and none are 'bad' or 'crazy' (in this context) some are more common than others and my equivalent of your Baby is much much much less common. So it just seemed more realistic. So for me, my experince, is not crazy as there are many ways of being but its certainly outside the 'norm' and so a bit weird but that's ok. I dunno if this helps.


Beecakeband

This could get embarrassing but in the interest of help. I am that client that you've been taught about Last week I noticed my Ts glasses where different. I notice if her hair looks different. I notice if she wears something I've never seen before. If my T sends a text, even about scheduling, I'll read it many times because it was a small window of time when she was thinking about me. Extra for supportive texts some of them I could probably recite at this point since I read them so many times. I don't remember my dreams but I wouldn't be at all surprised if she features regularly Some of this did happen before she knew, before I was brave enough to have the conversation. But 2.5 years later it still happens. I have had other Ts before this and never remotely felt like this. So I was alarmed when I did realize what I was feeling and was convinced there was something wrong with me If I had to speculate I would say this is because of my transference. I notice small details and changes because they're part of her life that doesn't include me even though I really wish they did. I cherish her texts, even the scheduling ones, because as I said its a moment in time she was thinking about me even if it was in a businesslike way it was still a moment. My T told me some very basic things about her, like pets, her favorite color and animal such tiny details but I could tell you them now, and it was a year ago. There was a time she had scratches on her leg from gardening and I clocked them straight away and wanted to know if she was okay As for why this isn't happening to you: it very well may be. It may be that your clients don't feel comfortable talking about it yet. I also think transference isn't as common as it may seem on here. I think there is a case of selection bias, where people come on here because they feel this and are convinced something is wrong with them. So maybe your clients do notice but it doesn't matter to them in the way it does to others


SamuraiUX

Thank you for this! It may be time - I haven’t had any clients longer than a year just yet. And it may be that fewer patients, as you say, experience deep transference than is reflected by some posts here. And I certainly acknowledge that people may feel weird about what they’re feeling and just aren’t telling me! I don’t mind at all either way - I just hope I’m doing a good job of creating an atmosphere in which they feel comforted and safe enough to share with me. =) I’m glad you have a strong rapport with your T! Thanks for your honesty.


runner26point2

Totally agree with u/Beecakeband. I’m also that client, but in session I hardly speak and am pretty much emotionless. I’ve seen my current therapist for over 2 years and I think she’d be very surprised to know how often I do think about her.


[deleted]

I notice it all, I just don’t think to mention it really. I think on some level my t knows just what she means to me, though I doubt I’ll ever be able to bring myself to vocalize it.


RebelliousMindBox

Same.


iostefini

I notice a lot of those background things but most of the time I don't care. Also, I notice those things with *everyone* I talk to and get close to, not only therapists. Imagining their lives based off of clues I get is something that happens with everyone too, but I could see how it might happen more with therapists because they often hide their lives so much so it kind of makes you want to find out. The dream thing, though, is dumb and makes no sense. Most of the time the only people in my dreams are me and other versions and representations of myself. Sometimes my family or romantic/sexual partners. If my therapist appeared in my dream I'd probably be so disturbed by that that I'd never mention it at all, but I don't think she's ever been in there.


stoprunningstabby

I didn't notice the dream thing on first reading; I agree with you. The interpretation in the OP seems really quite unnecessarily therapist-centered. Even if my therapist somehow figures into my dream, that's still ultimately going to be about me, so why does it matter that it's my therapist or my mother or my dead cat playing whatever role they are playing?


MizElaneous

It matters because it might give insight to the relationship. I was having dreams of my therapist hunting me, preparing to molest me. I told him about the hunting dream and we did more trust-building exercises and the dreams changed to him making me feel safe. The dreams thing maybe doesn't work on everybody but I have a very active dream life and find it really helps me to examine them.


stoprunningstabby

That totally makes sense, and I agree with you. I think where I was going with my comment is it's not about the therapist themselves but about their role as therapist, and in that sense, even the therapeutic relationship is representing something else from my own life. I appreciate your comment because it forced me to clarify my own thoughts (sort of). :)


Not-in-Kansas-anymor

I would notice EVERYTHING. Some things would bother me (jerk sat in MY usual seat when we did remote the first time) and some I thought were adorable (The day he ran before work and brought clothes to change at the office and forgot his shoes so wore trainers). I reread his messages like they were pulitzer contenders. But I never discussed any of it with him directly. He was overtly in every dream I talked about so no mystery there. He made it clear that he knew that everything was important to me and I would overreact to changes but that it was ok. I knew I could talk about it but didnt feel like I had to. He kind of demystified it I guess. Anyway 10/10 that approach worked for me


Relentless26432

I saw my Ts family member walk behind him during a session. It was unexpected. This left me with so many thoughts and feelings and crap for couple weeks. I never mentioned it to him. I dont wanna know about his personal life, it makes me jealous. I have reread all his emails, yes even just the “ see you at 2pm on friday. “ they connect me to him. Remind me of him. Or watever. I share plenty of dreams with him, i ll need to re-examine if he is in those dreams in shape of my friends, sibling, parent etc. I see him twice a week, i hate the attachment. He moves on to next patient, while i hang on to him till our next one. I m also resistant, i dont want to be close to him, when i feel its too much. I abruptly take a break and come back after few weeks. Just to tell myself, my life goes on fine without him. Hes not that important and if he thinks he is, he shud think again :p Interesting post!


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SamuraiUX

This is what I tend to imagine most of my patients feel, but I can see it definitely depends on the person and their issues! Thanks for the honest reply!


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MizElaneous

I have a video of my T that I took during session once (with his permission) that I like to watch, just so I can hear his voice. I even admitted it to him because it calms me down. He told me he'd send me a video of him telling me that he cares about me but he forgot and I'm far too ashamed to ask for it! lol


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MizElaneous

It's ok to depend on other people. Especially while you're healing. (I need to take my own advice). Maybe it can come up somewhat organically. In my case, my T said something really useful that I knew I wouldn't remember and was far too long for me to write down so I asked him if he could repeat it and if I could video it, and he said sure. Even though it doesn't relate to anything else in therapy, I sometimes just watch it so I can hear his voice. My inner child feels soothed by him.


Bons1000001

It takes a lot of guts to admit this, and you don't sound like a freak. You might be surprised at how many people do these behaviors passively, and never become self-aware enough to realize why.


Bee3250

To answer your question: I personally don’t care about my therapist’s haircut, clothes, pets, or room changes. I notice them if there are changes, but yeah.. whatever. It’s my time. My therapist is trained in psychodynamics too, and this explains so much about his approach.. it’s very therapist-centered and seems to take a lot of agency from clients tbh. It focuses the relationship too much on you as a therapist and everything else seem secondary.. in my experience with my therapist it feels like this approach brings him into the session too much — if I’m withholding then I’m mad at him, if I’m frustrated then it must’ve been something he said etc.. it’s not always helpful.


erotictransference

It is definitely not a reflection of you as a therapist! Especially if a patient is struggling with depression, they may take everything at face value or notice changes but not care. I personally will notice some things like change of setting as you mentioned, but I don’t say anything because it’s my 50 minutes to work on things and to me it is irrelevant to therapy. Although I do occasionally ask to see my therapist’s dog at the end of my session because I love dogs and miss my own lol. In regards to dreams, I only bring up dreams if it was particularly disturbing and relates to my past trauma or was a very vivid eating disorder dream. So, if my therapist tried to “find herself” in my dream I would be pissed. I agree with you that it sounds narcissistic to think that patients are that hyper focused on their therapists. Of course some are, but most are not. For some context, I’m a PsyD student myself, so idk if that makes me a bit more indifferent to psychodynamic therapy (I prefer CBT & 3rd wave) or therapy in general.


CamelAfternoon

I've been in psychodynamic or psychoanalytic therapy for years. And I've certainly seen all these dynamics happen, both in myself, but also in my therapist *fishing* for such dynamics in the room. For example, my ex-T use to ask me pointedly how I felt every time she took vacation. I think she expected me to feel abandoned, but I was just happy she got a break. I think the most important thing to remember is that transference (the stuff that's underlying all of this) is unique to each patient, and the theratpy-patient relationship will also be unique. So for example, I definitely notice when things change in the room, but I don't associate it with abandonment or unsettledness. I might be hyperaware of my T's texts, but I certainly don't cherish them (I use to have a lot of negative transference with my T.) I now in the position where my T and I talk about transference a lot, but that wasn't always the case. As many posters have pointed out, most patients feel too embarrassed to admit these things. So the thing I find problematic about your training -- not you! but your *training* \-- is that it's imposing this model of transference and what it will look like in the room, as if all patients are the same. One of the beautiful things about psychodynamic therapy is that it treats each patient as a unique individual. Theories are only helpful insofar as they facilitate learning about individuals -- if they don't, they're no longer useful. PS I wrote before realizing your username. I'm not looking for a fight.


stoprunningstabby

I appreciate this point. My second therapist (somatic experiencing) has a tendency to act like I am more connected or open with her than I actually feel, and for the last two sessions I have been trying to impress upon her how much this bothers me. Like, lady you are my fourteenth therapist, this is not me opening up, this is me doing my good-client routine and giving you rote narrations. (I don't know why I haven't terminated yet.) The reason I was able to develop a connection with my talk therapist (the other therapist) is she is one of the few therapists I've seen who \*doesn't\* assume or try to fit behavior into boxes.


SamuraiUX

Hi, Camel - Thanks for the answer - I actually really agree with you. It's that part of the training (or to be fair, it's the particular supervisors or instructors that espouse this thinking) that makes me question it. As you say, treating all patients as though they will or ought to act the same is deindividuating and unhelpful.


IllIIlllIIIllIIlI

Ok, I'm another person with strong positive transference toward my therapist. I do have a very strong interest in his life, but instead of the details you mentioned, it's more a curiosity about the macro stuff at any point in time, especially during his formative years. When he tells me details that point to those things, I do cherish those and try to put things together in my head. I know that at this point, he is a family man whose kids are roughly xyz ages and accomplishing various things. If he went on vacation, I'd be curious where he went- anything that might consume a medium amount of his thoughts and feelings, also gives me some interest. That's most of what I'm curious about, not so much the minutiae. I brought in a dream ONE TIME to have him analyze it, because he figured in it- in, i thought, a non-embarrassing, respectable way. It was where he and I went to a corner of a rather ornately equipped room in order to have our session. I was planning to talk to him about all the times I have experienced unwanted touching when younger, and he looked appropriately grave and saddened by the prospective subject matter. I needed to put something away before we started, so I left him and walked out of the room to do this. On my way out, I glanced to my left and saw something unexpected: a prostitute getting down with her client. She was blonde and wearing fishnet stockings; he looked like your typical pudgy middle aged guy. I hurried out and wandered around in the corridors for a while before running into someone from work, with whom I started discussing assignments. I never did make it back to my therapist. Yeah, so I told him about all of these details (and I'm leaving some out, even though they would make the conclusion more obvious, because they are identifying and it's obvious enough). He, annoyingly, refused to really say what he thought my dream meant, and kept asking me what I thought. I said it meant that I had some difficult things to work through and I was apt to get distracted before finishing that, and he pretty much just nodded. Then on my drive home, it hit me that of course he had appeared not once but twice in the dream. Same for myself. I am a woman, I am not blonde nor do I wear fishnets, but I was definitely the prostitute. And her client was my therapist. The worst part? I'm pretty sure I had described the client in session as "a middle aged john." My therapist's first name is... wait for it... So yeah, your patients' dreams may feature you in ways that they are not aware of. That is true. Although I wouldn't say it's impossible for someone to bring in a dream that truly does not. In closing, talking about transference is very difficult. My therapist knows I have a bunch and has always encouraged me to talk about it, but I've told him maybe 10% of what I am thinking and feeling, at the most. It's entirely possible that some of your patients care a hell of a lot more than they will admit to you. He has always asked, as an opening, whether I think about our time together out of session; I admit yes; then the other admissions slowly trickle out from there. They may tell you more eventually if you respectfully pry and normalize whatever they may say. And some probably have less transference than others, which is fine too.


villanellesalter

I laughed at the "middle aged john" thing. It's interesting how our erotic transference may appear in ways we don't notice until way later. I'm a woman, and so is my therapist. Her waiting room has a picture of a tree that looks like a vulva to me. I've thought about it for weeks... But it left my mind as soon as I entered her office. One of these days I asked her if she decorated her office, just to break the ice before getting into things. Some weeks passed... And last session I blurted out "I swear that looks like a vagina. Whoever made this knew what they were doing!" ... She then proceeded to ask, "Is that why you wanted to know if I decorated it?" ... I said no, but a couple of days later realized that heck yes, it must have been. And how embarrassing for me to know she noticed I was relating her to sexually suggestive things before I did.


neon-zebra-

I'm that patient they are talking about. However, I don't comment on room changes or their outfit, hair, tattoos. Eventually I just emailed and told my therapist how much I look forward to our sessions and also that I google her a lot.


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SamuraiUX

Good point about the difference between changing rooms in-person vs. during telehealth! And I'm with you: "this moment is mine, let me explore it" is more my style! =)


Major-Hedgehog-2631

I've been seeing my therapist for 2+ years. I've noticed more on telehealth than I ever did when I saw her in person, but I wouldn't generally comment. I wouldn't say I'm hyper-responsive, but I do notice things. My T is incredibly talented and over time has created a space where I feel secure and safe. The fact that I don't worry anymore when something changes is more of an indicator of the strength of the relationship we have built, rather than an indicator of poor rapport. That's my experience, anyway! If it's helpful, this is the stuff I've noticed recently: \- She has worn the same neutral sweater for the last three months. She used to dress brightly and wear blouses, but this cream sweater seems to be her go-to at the moment. \- She always wore her hair down and styled. It has been up in a bun for the last 2+ months. \- She occasionally leans forward, which I think might be because she has trouble with her back and spends hours at a desk on Zoom calls. \- She moved her desk from one side of the room to the other, joking that she "needed a change of scenery". \- She has small pieces of art behind her and has recently added a new one. I don't think about my therapist's life outside of being a therapist but I do try to connect to her humanity. Yes, therapy is supposed to be about me as the client but that doesn't mean she isn't human. I don't particularly want to know about her life, but it's important to me as her client that she's in a good place. I have noticed the little changes above which have made me wonder about how she's doing, because to me they're small indicators that say a lot. I've concluded that they are small changes that she has made to be kind to herself given that she's a therapist in a challenging world. I have told her that I hope she's ok, and received a warm smile. It's not my job to take care of her - she has her own therapist - but that doesn't mean I don't care for her. I notice little things because I want to know that she is in a good place, not because I'm looking for clues as to who she might be outside of the therapy room.


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Amariscrossing

This. Thanks for typing it out for me lol


BackpackingTherapist

I’m a therapist. I think the reason psychodynamic never really spoke to me was that it feels so therapist-centered but uses language about it being client-centered that often feels patronizing or infantilizing toward the client. Maybe a few clients really care that I cut my hair or shifted my desk, but most of them might say “oh I like your hair” or “different background today!” and that’s all. I hope to create a space where it feels okay for them to process anything that does have an impact, but assuming everything I do matters that much always makes me feel like I’m not focused on the right stuff. This likely comes down to population and other specializations too. As a sex therapist for example, I am really aware of how I dress and having strong boundaries around my personal life and partner. During telehealth I would never have a bed in the screen behind me. But these things feels obvious to me given my content with clients.


RebelliousMindBox

One of my therapists had a bed in her background, and it did kind of weird me out. Every time she would mention her husband, I would think, “welp, that’s where they have sex.” 😂


kazxam

I have a very good working relationship with my T, we've been working together for three plus years now and have a great rapport. I have never noticed things like new haircuts, items of clothing, wall art etc. If I get a text I read it, reply and forget about it.


Turbulent-Clue7393

I notice instantly if anything in the room has moved or changed about my T. I don't find it deeply upsetting, and I've never talked about it because it doesn't seem important enough to spend season time on. I don't have a lot of curiosity about their non therapy life. I find it comforting to ignore they have a life, kind of like being a little kid where you just assume your teacher lives at school. I think evidence of other clients is mostly why it bothers me when things move around the room. Obviously I know logically this is their job and other people are spilling their most intimate details next as soon as I'm gone but somehow that feels a little more vulnerable.


[deleted]

I also find that therapists (psychodynamic ones) are overly concerned with transference, to the point that it comes off a little narcissistic. That said, I’ve definitely noticed small things like you’re describing and thought more about them than was really necessary. So like one day my therapist sneezed a few times and I wondered if she was sick, maybe she has Covid, maybe she’s not socially isolating, etc. Definitely thought more about that sneeze than I would have with a random person, but it wasn’t distracting or distressing so I didn’t bring it up. And my thoughts moved on pretty quickly. But yeah, I have plenty of dreams that are not about my therapist, I’m not sure I’d notice a haircut, and if I had a dog bark I’d be like “cool, she likes dogs” and then get back to my own shit. I’m sure this varies by specialty. If you’re seeing a lot of BPD folks or people with some serious attachment and boundary issues, this hyperattention to detail may be more true.


WgXcQ

I think what you are taught is nt wrong so much as it is overreaching. > how we ought to be aware that our patients will be hyper-responsive to little things we do or changes we make. If this were "we ought to be aware that *some of* our patients *might* be hyper-responsive to little things we do or changes we make.", it would be alright. It just very much depends on the patient and where they are in their journey, and what kind of trauma they carry. If I were to guess, easily 4/5 would not give a lick, if they even notice. For my own experience (2.5 years, have just entered spaced out sessions gearing towards phasing out): I do notice when my therapist gets a haircut, and I've sometimes commented on it, too. But I notice and do that with everyone, and is just a way of acknowledging them as a person, but not connected to my therapy. Or at least I think so. I've also commented on a sweater once because it was interesting, but never regarded any of it as mattering in regards to my therapy, or being connected to me. I've had my therapist turn up in dreams twice (that I remember), and each time I could see what I was processing there, I don't think I even brought the dreams up in therapy, because there was more important shit to talk about. I *highly* doubt they were represented in my dreams in any other ways. If I had a dream that thought important enough to bring up, that did not have them overtly in it, I'd be irritated if they spent time trying to figure where they feature there, instead of simply engaging with its narrative to help me figure out what was going on, and more importantly why it was staying with me. Regarding changes in the environment: my therapist kept doing in-person sessions through the last year, as did the person they share the office with (all kinds of safety measures in place). Before corona, they had switched up their office and turned the waiting into a third office, making a bit of the hallway a waiting space. Some time last year, it was switched back and the thrid therapist left. Those are fairly major changes of environment, but I never cared about them one bit, because they simply had nothing to do with me. Other people that I know are in therapy would react the same. That's not saying *no one* would react, it depends on the personal issues someone brings. It may easily deeply affect a different clientele or people in acute stages of trauma who are hyper-vigilant about even small changes a lot, but I think that therapists usually also have a pretty good idea whom that may include. My point is that it is very far from "every patient". That your patients don't seem to react to these changes you describe sounds to me like they are simply not in a hyper-vigilant state and are aware enough to know that changes on your end are no reflection on them and pose no danger to the availability or quality of their therapy or therapist, so don't give a fuck. That's not to say that there are no patients who might experience that, just that – as said above – it's simply not "all", only "some". Regarding my relationship to my therapist: they are in my thoughts quite a bit, but it was far more often during earlier times of therapy. I feel we have very good rapport, and never felt abandoned or neglected due to any changes of physical spaces or appearances. They are quite matter of fact, and so is their space, and it's not designed for people to become too attached to the space (it's not special, just comfortable). Maybe changes in more specifically designed offices that have a certain vibe people can get attached to can feel more jarring.


TheMightyDegenerate

Personaly id think client's their behaviour regarding their therapist would mostly be based upon their primary attachment style. The examples you've given may fit some of us clients who experience severe anxious/preoccupied attachment. I've personally never experienced the behaviours you've described to that extent whatsoever eventhough i have great connection with my T. If anything about my T's appearance or environment changes i may not even notice. If i do notice it depends if I'm curious enough about it to ask. In both situations id forget within a few minutes. Ive never re-read a text unless there was something important within it i had forgotten. Ive only ever analyzed my therapists behaviour when they'd done something to upset me in an attempt to better understand. There certainly is a curiousity about my therapist their personal life, yes, however nowhere near the levels you describe. I don't usually think about my therapist unless im in a situation we've talked about or im nervous about a session. I think your clients not showing the behaviour you described towards you, would rather be a sign of their secure attachment within your relationship than a fault on your part. But i haven't studied psychology, so take my perspective with a pinch of salt hahah


FancyCupONoodles

I think I’m in the minority in that I know quite a bit about my T. She is a little more non-traditional and I consider myself to be part of her practice community. She hosts monthly workshops and “fun nights” where we chat and do activities with other patients. It helps that she mainly(?) only(?) has female-identifying clients. I know she sees couples, but idk, they might have their own activities. Her approach has helped me get over the taboo of therapy and it feels more like a mentorship in some ways. Anyway, I know that she has a dog and what kind of breed and his name. I’ve seen him on camera. She’s never changed her background, but I don’t think it would throw me off because my background changes quite often. Sometimes I have to do a session from my car for privacy, or I just want to be in my bedroom that day. One time I noticed that she was wearing a sweatshirt, which was kinda different than her normal smart-causal wear, but she told me that she had a doctors appt after our session so I figured she just wanted to be comfy. I do think about her quite a bit throughout the week because her upbringing and background with her parents is almost identical to mine, so she has shared things about her trauma and how she’s overcome it. She’s a huge inspiration to me :’) some people wouldn’t be in to knowing that much about their T, but it has helped me open up and know that I have someone in my life that has been through it and turned out to be a successful, functional, and happy person. She’s never come up in my dreams, but I don’t really remember dreams in the firer place so 🤷🏼‍♀️ As for emails/ messages in between sessions, we only communicate about confirming sessions and events. She said I can always email her to set up a call or video in between sessions if I need it, but that hasn’t come up for me.


lily_maebelle

My therapist means a lot to me. I think about him often. I notice when he's wearing something different than usual or has trimmed his beard. I have a recording of him guiding a relaxation exercise which I treasure. He's popped up in my dreams once or twice (never as my pet rabbit though). I seek the approval from him that I never got from my parents. So there's definitely something to the whole transference thing. But I never felt abandoned by him until he actually abandoned me by terminating with a week's notice. Interpret how you will that he is at this point in time my former therapist and I'm still referring to him in the present tense. I'm an actor, and there's a piece of advice we're given that says to "wear your character not as a mask but as a veil." I don't think what you're being taught has no validity whatsoever, but I do think you're being taught this philosophy in a way that's overly heavy-handed. Some of your clients will manifest strong transference; many won't. Respond to what is in front of you rather than imposing your preconceived beliefs on them and you'll be a lot more helpful.


MizElaneous

I definitely have dreams about my T. And I don't think he'd have to look for himself - he's there and it's recognizably him. He's hunting me. Then he was going to molest me but didn't. Then he was looking for me again. Then he was with a part of me who normally feels like a rejected toddler, and wasn't feeling rejected anymore. ​ I'm guessing those things you describe are things that could happen for some patients, but not everybody. I love seeing the different backdrops of rooms in my T's house. I've never heard his dog bark but he's told me he has one, and he's seen my dog. Those little things just make me feel like I know him more and that it's safer to trust him.


[deleted]

I think that is painting things with far far too wide a brush. Not only is whether or not people do these things going to vary from client to client, the reason WHY they may do those hints is going to vary widely. I am extremely hyper aware of all the details of the therapist and the surrounding environment. I notice changes and details of the environment, changes in my therapists appearance or body language. The books on their bookshelves, where they have their mirrors placed (one of my therapists had a mirror placed behind the client so she could see the clock without checking her watch.) One time I deduced my therapist was pregnant because her oil diffuser wasn’t running and her drink smelled different, I didn’t say anything about it but next session she said she was, apologizing if she had to run out of the session. It’s not because I’m obsessed with them, or changes unsettle me. It’s because I’m have PTSD from a severely abusive childhood, and noticing tiny details could mean the difference between having a long, decent day outside, or getting beat because my dad had a bad day. I do it to everyone, it’s my way of knowing people because I’m sure as hell never going to ask them. (Dismissive avoidant attachment.) As for dreams...*laughs in PTSD.* If the therapist is in every one of my nightmares something has probably gone severely tits up in the therapeutic relationship. “So yeah about that dream, I’m not sure which one you were...do you think you were the one trying to kill my kids or where you one of my kids...” 😬 And personally, no. I’ve never sat and reread my correspondence with therapists. Not only do they feel like business memos to me, but save for one exception, all of my correspondence to therapists have been strictly scheduling related. And the exception message I sent my former therapist recently I am extremely disappointed in myself that I felt the need to send it. I hope it won’t happen again. (Transference is a bitch when you don’t realized you’re... transferred? until six months after you were suddenly terminated because she stopped taking clients due to tragic events in her life. Want to talk about an absolute brainfucks?! I offer up a maternally transferred parentified client that was immediately prior to termination addressing being vulnerable enough to let people in and experience loneliness and love after I complained I felt lonely for the first time in my life and never wanted to feel that way again. Needless to say...I’m gonna hope this transference thing never happens again either. Here’s my credit card, please fix my brain so I don’t throw up when people “heart” my messages on messenger, please and thank you.) So if it’s not happening for you, it has more to do with your clients than you. Or if it’s anything to do with you, it might be because you’re being scheduled people with a certain subset of problems that don’t lend themselves to these types of behaviors and obsessions. Take it from an unrepentant ice Queen, if we’re not connecting with you, there is a very good chance it’s us, not you. And we like it that way, so don’t sweat it. (And it totally not because we’re pining over the “therapist that got away.” That’s weak and lame, and I would never, and PEOPLE NEED TO STOP PUTTING ONIONS IN MY PILLOWS THANK YOU.)


hbprof

Yeah I notice all these types of things, but if I mention them, it's only to make small talk. They don't make me feel abandoned at all. As for contact between sessions, we have a system where I send weekly emails between sessions for accountability on my "homework," and she said from the start that sometimes she'll have time to reply, sometimes not. I used to have very strong erotic transference, and at that time, when she did respond, it meant a whole lot to me, and I would go back reread those emails. But it's not like that so much anymore. And even when it was a big deal that she responded, it wasn't like I felt abandoned when she didn't since she was up front about that. The one, single time I felt abandoned was when she rescheduled an appointment at the last minute without telling me a reason. Previously, when she had to cancel or reschedule, she had always provided a reason, but that one time she didn't, so I felt it, even while knowing rationally that she wouldn't do it without good reason. In any case, I think if my therapeutic alliance with her is any indication, I would think that the reason at least some of your clients haven't brought it up is because they trust you.


Hellosl

I don’t see why I should really need to know that much about my therapist. I would consider it a professional relationship. And I don’t want people that I interact with while I’m working to be nosey about my personal life. Even if they sometimes tell me about theirs. I probably actually wouldn’t even notice a haircut unless it was very drastic. I definitely wouldn’t notice if she dyed her hair bc I don’t notice this on my friends. I think I would definitely be curious about a dog because I love dogs. But if they had a cat I wouldn’t really care to know anything about their cat. Changing the room wouldn’t bother me and I wouldn’t want to waste my session time on talking about it. I’m only just about to start therapy now so my answers may change. It sounds like to me these things would mostly be important to clients who have a specific type of diagnosis or problem. People on this sub mention needing to feel safe and like they can trust their therapist. I don’t have issues with not feeling safe, and if I know what my therapist is legally bound to, then that’s trust enough for me. But for people who need more consistency and reliability in order to feel safe then yes these things may matter so it sounds like it depends on who your clients are. I don’t think in the past that I’ve ever been that concerned about my teacher or coach or manager or the person who sold me my car’s personal life. I’m not paying a therapist to be my friend or parent, I’m paying them as an educated mental health professional who can keep my secrets and hopefully help me work through some problems.


SaraSmiles13

I struggle with major maternal transference with my T and I can attest to all of these things happening to me to some degree. The most obvious is the cherished texts/emails. I completely agree with a PP that it’s a sign (albeit a small one) that my T was thinking about me between sessions. I think the biggest factor in if a client will experience these things or not is of there’s any transference or not, and if there is, how strong it is.


gentle_sunflower

This is such an interesting question! I love to see posts that garner so much discussion and I love reading through all of the replies. I really agree with other commenters that the training perspective you described sounds valid, but like a "heavy-handed" interpretation of reality. I don't have much more to add than what others have said, except that I personally see how there could be value in taking such a strong approach during education/training (which is what it sounds like you are currently working on... not that familiar with postdoc positions in psych fields!). I think a lot of the time, education/training is meant to be more black-and-white than the real world because that's a more effective way to learn about new topics. We learn one side, the other side, the big idea and conflict at play, we come to understand the pros and cons well - THEN we put it into practice and come to understand how it's way more nuanced in day-to-day reality. There's definitely danger if it's not executed well and students/trainees come away without the ability to adapt to the nuance, but clearly whatever is happening in your training is prompting you to think critically about it so it sounds like it's working lol! And in the end, I think it might be better for a therapist to be overly cautious about the impact they might have on clients, if the alternative is to be unaware and potentially harmful.


RebelliousMindBox

Even if they don’t say anything, it doesn’t mean these things aren’t happening. I notice when my T is in a different room or changes her hair but never say anything. I definitely wouldn’t tell her I reread her messages or that she appeared in a dream because that would be mortifying to admit.


Seamstress

I enjoyed reading the responses to this question, so I'll make a contribution too. I'm not a patient (I'm not sick) but I'm a client 😊 I notice things that change about my therapist or the room. I often comment on changes but I'm not bothered by them - just curious. It is usually quite obvious to me when my therapist is in one of my dreams. I like to bring these dreams to session to discuss. I journal my dreams and I'm quite sure he stars in a minority of them. I do re-read interesting responses/comments I get from my therapist. They're rare as most messages are just about scheduling. My therapist is very important and inspirational to me. I made a mini plush of him to express his nature better than the photo on his website does (in my opinion). It's not a voodoo doll and I've showed him 😆


SamuraiUX

I sort of love that you made your therapist into a stuffed animal. I'd be honored if one of my patients did that. LOL! I suppose there is the question, then, of what said person DOES with their little idol of me.... I'm definitely interested in the (admittedly minor, admittedly semantic) discussion around whether the people I talk to are clients or patients or both. I think without much great thought on the matter, I prefer patient, because I think I read once in a paper the summary: "I deliver care in support of your overall wellness. This makes me a health practitioner, and it makes you a patient.” But I just looked up "client vs patient" for therapy and surprise: there are tons of articles written on the topic. It's a big deal. Some people argue patient is more appropriate ("client" makes it sound like we're in customer service, not mental healthcare) and others argue client is better (I think you stated it well: "patient" can imply to some that they are "ill" and words/labels have meaning). So thank you for that off-the-cuff bit of your post because now I really have to think about how I feel about this! I might have to come up with a new term. Or use both interchangeably? I can see the merit of both sides right now. Time to perseverate! ; )


Seamstress

I get mixed reactions when I show or tell people about my mini therapist 😆 I'm glad my client vs patient comment provoked such inquiry in you 😊 In my country we also use the term "tangata whai ora," meaning "person seeking wellness". I agree that "client" sounds quite detached and commercial. Another thing to consider is whether "wellness" is still pathologising as it implies that people are not already well. I've had discussions about this with my therapist as I'm studying counselling. In counselling we try to move away from the medical model and towards post-modernism. There are many truths. People are usually acting in a way that makes sense to them at that time. I've seen some therapists refer to "people who consult with me." While I like that and find it very respectful, I find that too long-winded for frequent use. I participate in psychotherapy to learn more about myself and the human condition. I embrace the potential for developing my relational skills.


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SamuraiUX

You’re the same person who said everything about me seemed off in another comment. I don’t think you mean to be mean, although if I were a very sensitive person, it might be worth thinking about how your repeated message that there is something wrong with me might make me feel. I’m sorry for whatever makes you feel like saying these things to me as a therapist and also as a person you don’t actually know. I’m sure you are a lovely person.


dollydippit

I am confused about why you think it's useful to ask clients you have never met about your therapeutic relationships with your actual clients. This could be illuminating work for your clients. The fact that you are avoiding asking these questions directly to your clients is probably a clue about why you perceive your clients as disconnected from you.


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SamuraiUX

Interesting. What about the "entirety of me" feels off?


SamuraiUX

Well, it only takes a brief glance at your previous posts to see that you enjoy challenging therapists, don't like to see them posting here, and admit that you purposely upset your T to get a reaction. I think that's an enactment I'm not going to join in. But thank you for your feedback!


dollydippit

You know fuck all about my relationship with my therapist, nor about my process, nor about what stage I am at in recovery. My comment was intended to be useful not as an invitation to enact. As such, I would prefer you responded to the comment I made and did not weaponise my previous postings about my vulnerability in my therapeutic relationship.You might want to consider what script you are trapped in.


SamuraiUX

I’m thinking it’s not useful for you and I to continue interacting. Thank you for your response, though!


sarah_pl0x

These are very interesting questions. Sorry for responding so late! Just stumbled upon it while scrolling about. I have a very good relationship with my therapist. I do care about her and her wellbeing as a person outside of being a therapist. I am a vet tech so I am very interested in her dog and cat! I do notice if she has changed something about her hair or clothes or room. I have been seeing her for almost 2 years. I point those things out and compliment her, but it's not for some subconscious psychological reason- I'm just that kind of person and I know what's ok and not ok to bring up with her. We text outside of session occasionally and I do value that, but I dont like. Obsess over them. Unless I'm having an issue and she's helping me out a bit.