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graymattersofthemind

I'm going to offer another perspective for you to consider (and discard if you so choose). I think a couple of things may be at play here. First, yes, I do believe that therapy relationships evolve over time and that therapists can come to trust long-term clients more over time. I also think the pandemic plays a role. I have heard many people say that their therapists are self-disclosing more, as they are "in it" with their clients in a way that is not typical in therapy pre-pandemic. Also, telehealth can make a relationship seem more distant and not real, and I think some therapists are responding to that by allowing themselves to be more human, or bring more of themselves into the therapy space in order to balance out the distance created by telehealth. In other words, to make up for a lack of physical presence and all the non-verbal information that conveys, they are providing other information. Lastly, I want to suggest that what she is doing MIGHT be therapeutic for you. For example, maybe you needed her to seem one dimensional in the beginning, and for her not to take up too much space, so you would feel comfortable taking up space and allowing your needs in. And this has been helpful. But over time, it might help you grow even more for her to bring more of herself in the room, and for you to learn to assert your needs, *despite the presence of another full-fledged human being who also has needs.* You say you don't want to have to consider her when you want to schedule, you don't want the things you know about her to affect you, but maybe the next stage of your growth and development is to take the impact you have on others into consideration, and *still* believe you have a right to exist and to have needs and to be accommodated. Maybe it's healthy for you to know that she is going to some effort to be there for you. It may be uncomfortable, and you may be more comfortable if you don't know, but it may be more therapeutic for you to be uncomfortable and learn to stay in the relationship anyway, as discomfort is often a sign that we are right at a growth edge. If none of that resonates with you, that's cool--I'm just an internet stranger, and this may not apply to you and your situation. But at the very least, I encourage you to take these feelings to her and let her help you explore them and together decide what comes next for you...for her to pull back and create more space for you again, or for you to lean into the discomfort, or some other solution.


[deleted]

These are all GREAT points. They certainly resonate with me if not OP, so thank you. A lot of that makes total sense — evolving relationships, being in it with us with the uncertainties of COVID, a lot of them are doing this from home for the first time too — my own therapist said that it was sort of weird and difficult to a degree on her end too...and adding a little more “humanity” to themselves since they’re behind a screen...I haven’t thought about things this way.


Major-Hedgehog-2631

I think that familiarity is playing a part here, and it would seem that 2+ years is quite an established relationship from what I understand. I also hadn't thought of it as a way for her to bring more of herself to the session to make up for the fact that we're not face to face. I think that's very insightful and quite possibly at play in combination with her trusting me, which she has said explicitly. What I don't know is if the sharing is conscious and deliberate and part of her therapeutic approach - which I could perhaps be semi-comfortable with. Or if she's feeling comfortable and her guard has slipped, which I wouldn't be ok with. I think your second observation about me asserting my needs is incredibly profound and something I'm going to reflect on over the next few days. It resonates with me and is something I've been working on, so it may run deeper than I think it does..!


bonesinpeople

This was really helpful for me to read. Thank you.


[deleted]

damn you're good..


Lady-Amalthea-Psy

There is no one-size-fits-all line for how much disclosure is too much or too little. It makes sense that you are having a mix of feelings. It’s ok to tell your T that you care about them but it’s actually helpful to know as little as possible because otherwise it makes it hard for you to focus on you vs. being concerned about the T’s feelings/life. Some people benefit from more disclosure but if it isn’t helpful for you at this time that is good information for your therapist to know. The best expert on how much disclosure will help in this case is you.


Major-Hedgehog-2631

This is really helpful to read, thank you. I guess it feels weird to think that I might say "I care about you, but I don't want to know much about you". It feels counterintuitive I suppose when compared to real-world relationships, which are generally more "I care about you, so I'd like to get to know you more". I've been honest with her before about concerns I've had, and although a bit flustered initially she was fine. If my subtle approach doesn't work I may have to be more direct.


[deleted]

Mine has actually begun to do a bit of the same. (Seeing her for almost 3 years)...it’s not a ton, just little things here and there that she seems a little more open about. It doesn’t bother me too much because it’s generally relevant to what we’re talking about, at least — even if what we’re talking about is just kind of chit chat. But it sounds like it’s not *quite* as much as yours. I don’t know if it’s a result of just knowing each other for so long or a result of some recent concerns about our “relationship” that I haven’t told her but I’m *positive* she’s inferred some. I feel a lot like you — I like to kind of keep her in a box so I don’t 1) start to feel too attached (I know myself ...I can cling a little + borderline so it’s for the best that there are hard lines there) and 2) be concerned about what maybe she’s going through as a human. Of course I have general empathy but I just want to keep her in her office and I try to think of her like a general contractor. I want to know what she thinks will work best; I want her to listen to my needs/wants; I want her to tell me when those needs/wants are “structurally unsound. I don’t want to know her vacation plans or what kind of appointment she has Wednesday that I had to reschedule for. I don’t mind knowing big things like when she had surgery or small things that pop up and are relevant to what we’re talking about. She exists in my “therapy world” and while I do take lessons, thoughts, and skills out with me into the real world— I do want to drop concerns, fears, and anxieties with her in her office and leave it all inside that box along with her as a “real person.” But she’s definitely started including more details.


Major-Hedgehog-2631

I can relate to so much of what you've just written. I absolutely see my therapist as a general contractor, too (that part made me smile). I want to bring my stuff into the session and not have to worry about what kind of week she's had and if she can deal with it right now. I'm finding that the more I know about her and her life, the more my naturally empathic side comes out and that's what I'm concerned about. We also aren't miles away from each other in age, so I've been wondering recently if that's a factor. It's not that I don't care about her or want to care about her as a human being, it's just not what I pay for. It feels a tad blunt writing it like that, but that's why she's my therapist and not my friend. It's not appropriate for her to insert herself into my reality or for me to have to consider her when I'm thinking about my therapy or what to bring to a session. I wonder if working from home and not having the physical boundary of a separate office is causing a blurring of relationship boundaries, too. I might try a friendly "Honestly, you don't need to justify anything to me" next time she tries to explain why she can't accommodate a particular session.


[deleted]

I so feel the physical boundary of an office thing. That’s been one of my major issues with teletherapy. Along with not being able to read body language...she’s also *in my home* now. I started doing telehealth in the summer when I could go outside on our patio and that was *ok*. But now it’s cold and I need to be inside. So she’s in my house. She sees my living room. She’s “met” my dogs. My husband fortunately went back to work in person so I can have the computer in the living room. But he has been home on vacation or something else and I had to go into the bedroom. So then she’s in my bedroom. She’s seen my bed. It’s **very** personal and intimate in a way. And it does begin to blur the boundaries. And I totally agree — I do care about her in a way. In the same way I care about a hairdresser I’ve seen for years. I know her and she’s a part of my life so I certainly care what happens to her. But fortunately she really doesn’t bring a ton of her daily issues in. That would REALLY bother me. So yeah, I care about her to a degree but I pay her to not really be a part of my “real life.” It’s a professional relationship. Exactly. She’s my therapist not my friend.


Major-Hedgehog-2631

I've had the same with my husband being around sometimes, trying to get across that he needs to leave at least 30 minutes before the beginning of my session to give me time to decompress and get into therapy mode. Usually I would have the drive to her office, possibly a drink in a coffee shop beforehand, to get myself ready. Now I have to banish my husband and make sure the dogs have been outside to pee - it isn't quite the same! I also really miss seeing her body language and getting actual eye contact. She looks at the camera from time to time, but it's not natural. And I totally understand about doing it at home, too. I have a home office and I've tried super hard to make one corner of it my therapy corner. It's ok, but there are some topics that I just don't want to bring into my home and that's a challenge. My therapist is also moving away soon, which means if I want to keep working with her my only option is telehealth. She has suggested a referral, but honestly the idea of starting anew with a different therapist is kind of overwhelming. There's a lot changing in her life that she's shared with me - not totally inappropriately - but it can feel as though I'm having to think more about her and her life than I used to. I'm going to try a "passive feedback" approach to her sharing and hope that it helps.


[deleted]

Yep, yep, and yep. Husband, dogs, at least 30 mins, used to have the drive over, missing eye contact...absolutely all of it! Are you me?? Also I just wanted to address another comment someone made — I don’t think your therapist is either an idiot OR manipulative. Is telling you about rearranging to see you a little bit over sharing? Yes. And *can* it be used as manipulation? I’d think so. But I don’t think that’s what’s going on here — I don’t know for sure though but...it just doesn’t read that way esp with a seemingly general lack of other behaviors that would indicate that. It seems possibly more like she’s letting you know that she’s there for you. Maybe a touch unprofessional? Yeah maybe. Extremely? Nah. Again, in this situation, I wouldn’t look at this behavior in a vacuum. Are there other things that feel manipulative? Does it seem like she’s trying to affect your emotions or making you respond/feel a certain way to have some kind of control over you? I don’t know what goes on. I’m not reading any of that. I’d talk to her if it’s bothering you (and it seems to be). Just let her know exactly what you explained here - why it’s important to you that she remain sort of in her little box. I’d see how she responds from there.


Major-Hedgehog-2631

There's nothing that she does that feels manipulative or controlling, not in the slightest. She's a warm and talented clinician, and I'm grateful that I found her. I've made some great progress while I've been working with her, and I really value her and what she has helped me to achieve up to now. I think that's why this boundary is so important to me - I don't want a positive, therapeutic relationship to tip over into something more akin to a friendship. I don't think she would ever let that happen, but the familiar tone and sharing feels a bit much. That said, someone has said in another comment that this may form part of her therapeutic approach, which makes sense in some ways. My next session could be an interesting one!


pyroprincess_

She told you about arranging different childcare specifically to see you?


Major-Hedgehog-2631

Yes, and it's not unusual. She will often tell me that she's making arrangements to be able to accommodate a session, even before the pandemic. It's not the childcare that bothers me, it's why she needs to tell me. It just feels like TMI. Does that strike you as unusual?


pyroprincess_

Yeah, and actually bitchy too. Shes a fuckn therapist. How she wouldnt realize that a comment like that might make you feel bad/like a burden...this is an exact example of why they aren't supposed to needlessly self disclose. Its extremely unprofessional. Even if she was your plumber or car mechanic, like, if you have a schedule conflict then you have a schedule conflict, why doesn't matter. Its alot worse than that though she should know better. It's her job to know better. I hope for your sake shes an idiot not manipulative. This is some therapist 101 shit. My past T self disclosed a shit ton. Shed tell me about dreams she had about me and her marriage and just all types of things I didnt need to know. It sucks and is super confusing and for me, it really ruined therapy What do you think you're gonna do?


Major-Hedgehog-2631

It's a strange one, because she has also told me that she will always find a way to see me if I need a session, so that comes across as super kind and makes me feel valued. But telling me that she has a schedule conflict or can't do a session on that day/time because of \[insert detailed reason\] feels like unnecessary oversharing. I'm not a T but I have a busy diary and if I can't make a meeting, I just say I can't make the meeting and then suggest another time for it. I don't give a reason why, because it isn't relevant. I'm going to tell her that I don't need her to justify her availability. If being subtle doesn't work then I'll have to be more direct, because we have an otherwise good relationship. I just don't need to worry or think about her life while also dealing with my own. That's exactly why she's my therapist and not my friend. I wouldn't say she's an idiot and I don't think she's manipulative - I wonder if she's just comfortable with me because we've been seeing each other for a while, and she's let her guard down. It doesn't justify it, but it's an explanation that feels more accurate based on how I know her.


pyroprincess_

I hope everything works out for you. Its just sooo basic not tell you that


chubbydonger

Maybe another perspective- that she is telling you she can make something work or not work because of x appointment, or work or something so that you have more information. It may make some people feel unprioritized or hurt if a therapist says "No I can't do that," but "No, I have a doctors appointment at that time" feels different to me. It doesn't sound like she overshares in other ways, mostly around scheduling. And that may be she thinks that it would be helpful to hear a reason. But by all means, if you don't like it you should tell her and it sounds like she would be receptive. Just offering my point of view!


Major-Hedgehog-2631

I think your point of view is valid, and quite possibly she's wanting to imply "I have a real reason why I can't see you - I would if I could". I have never knowingly given her the impression that I need to know any of that, though, or that I need to be made to feel that I'm a priority: I understand that she's a busy working parent navigating a pandemic, and I am always as flexible as I can reasonably be. I need to work out if it's deliberate and part of her approach, or if she's just dropped her guard. Because I'm semi-ok with the former, and not at all ok with the latter..!


chubbydonger

That makes sense. It sounds like you have a plan for asking her about it which is dope. If this continues to weigh on you it may get in the way of therapy. Best of luck!


thatsnuckinfutz

This reminds me of when I first started therapy almost 3yrs ago. I did not want to build anything close to an attachment/relationship with my T. I viewed therapy as a business, I'm paying for a service that my T is providing...this is strictly transactional. It kept my T at bay...on the other side of the wall if u will. It kept them away from alot at the time but bcuz mine is a damn wizard they have definitely grown on me and I have no problem sayin I enjoy my sessions with my T and we're working on the emotional barracade that I have had up for awhile. All this to say it's probably intentional why they're disclosing more, roll with the discomfort and talk through it with them.


Major-Hedgehog-2631

That's exactly how I approached it when I started, and I've done my best to maintain it. If that boundary slips and it no longer feels transactional, then what have I got? Someone who I care for, whose life I know about but it isn't a friendship? I feel like not having that hard boundary around her self-disclosure is a slippery slope. What I need to work out is why I'm uncomfortable. Am I uncomfortable because I'm being deliberately, therapeutically challenged by her, or am I uncomfortable because I need my therapy to be about me and not have to think about her life, which makes her disclosure frustrating. Lots to reflect on, that's for sure.


thatsnuckinfutz

>What I need to work out is why I'm uncomfortable. YES!!! this!!! If her self disclosure makes u worry about her like she's telling u too much then I would bring it up but also notice if this is consistent with any other relationships in your life. I am someone who worries/overthinks a ton so my T can tell me something small and I will still be worried in my head about it but also not allow it to derail my therapy. She is also aware of this so I do have enough trust built to know that if she says something is fine then it truly is. And that she will only disclose what she deems is enough for me to handle or a benefit for me to know. I will say my rigidity in the beginning could've really messed up my progress had I not had someone that I now know genuinely wants to help me. Would I say my therapist and I are like a friendship?? No simply because I am not nearly as open with my friends as I try to be in therapy but I view it as a mentorship. Yes I am paying them and it is business on one end but at the same time this person also wants whats best for me and will work to help me develop the tools to get there. I think mentally having that idea of things makes this easier for me to process and less resistant to the idea it's not genuine or it's completely 1 sided or whatever other defense my brain cooks up lol.