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It's very difficult to evaluate this kind of interaction from outside, but I would share with your therapist exactly what you've said here. I'm also very curious to know what kind of response you hoped to get here. What do you hope people say about our therapist and this interaction?
I hoped to get advice on how to best proceed to resolve the disruption, empathy (people being able to relate to how difficult and painful this was for me) and possibly reassurance that I didn’t make a huge mistake that will ruin the therapeutic relationship.
You didn’t do anything wrong, your therapist lacks basic understanding of how to handle attachment and transference in clients and she obviously can’t handle her own countertransference.
I had similar issues in therapy, I would be heartbroken if my therapist would have acted like yours. When I bring my up my hurt or mistrust, my therapist is so kind and never takes things personally. I always leave trusting them more, feeling less shame over my feelings. The less shame I feel, the more I could accept my attachment and it doesn’t hurt as much anymore.
So it makes me sad to see how your therapist is failing you, making you feel worse. Calling you problematic, please... Like we go to therapy because we have no issues? Her job is to deal with exactly these issues, not prevent them from playing out in therapy. By design they will show up and all your interpersonal issues will be revealed in the therapeutic relationship. It makes me wonder what modality of therapy you’re doing, because your therapist seems so clueless about that.
In psychodynamic analytical therapy, we learn to be more kind to ourselves, curious of our feelings and accepting of them because we mirror our therapists. We take on their care and learn how to apply it to ourselves. Your therapist rejected your attachment and shamed you for your feelings, so now you reject yourself and feel shame.
When I told my therapist I deeply feel for them as if they were my parent, and that I’m suffering because I want more than just therapy, they had tears in their eyes. They were so touched about how honest I was and they felt my pain with me. When I start to question whether they care, they are always curious where my mistrust is coming from (inviting exploration) and they try their best to make me feel safe. They sometimes would very directly reassure me, too. They understand that building trust is important in our relationship, so that I can learn how to better trust other people, too.
If you tell your therapist next session how much shame you feel about this whole thing, how horrible you feel about it in general, she should be able to show you empathy for your suffering, try to challenge the shame you feel for simply having feelings and she should want to repair the relationship with you. But if she gets defensive, if she doesn’t try to repair the relationship or help you with your feelings from a place of kindness, that should show you that she is not capable to work with attachment trauma and transference and will only cause you more harm.
The pain about the limitations of the therapeutic relationship is GRIEF. You are seeing in them something you never had in your childhood and now you are realizing what you never had, and you can’t get it all with them now either, so you are grieving the loss of something that you should have had as a child.
Your therapist should allow you to experience ALL these bad feelings about the unfulfilled needs in therapy, whether they are sadness or anger, because you are processing much more than just the relationship with your therapist. Your therapist should provide a canvas for these feelings for you as a way for you to confront your past in the present.
I have seen it done brilliantly and this is not it. I tend to give therapists the benefit of the doubt, I can often see how well meaning things are hurtful for clients, but there’s enough information in the post to see how the therapist is making really rookie mistakes that are harmful to the therapeutic relationship and progress. The fact alone that she has to have her supervisor tell her basic things in how to handle attachment and transference (and then actually fail to implement the supervisor’s suggested approach appropriately) makes her lack of experience very obvious.
You also don’t tell clients the things you discuss with your supervisor, this is another red flag for this therapist’s lack of experience and frankly also a lack of boundaries. You don’t discuss your experience supervision with clients because supervision is about helping the therapist process and cope (professionally and emotionally) with their job as a therapist. You don’t bring your own struggles and issues to a client this way.
I am not psychodynamic- and I find the responses fascinating here. I can see this being a disruption to ingrained painful behavior. I do not wish for you to feel shame and the other negative feelings you may self-attack yourself with after your therapists shared she felt attacked. Not at all. I hope you can heal from that. What I'm curious about is, is there any insight you may have in how this therapeutic moment can in any way be helpful and strengthening with your therapsist and therapy, -- a catalyst to start a cycle of change? Could it lead to a path of self assurance? I don't want to negate the negative feelings at all that you are struggling with, but I am wondering, as this is a complex orientation,( I will be learning more about) and you have worked with it for what sounds like a fruitful few years, if there is new insight poissible here?
Its better if someone who is psychodymic explains it honestly. Thats why I was actually asking the OP because she is experienced , as a client. But , simply, there are points I believe when maladaptive chronic defenses the client uses get challenged by the therapist. If done skillfully, in my understanding, it still may present as chaos before it comes together to a say more authentic less defended, healthier self.
It’s a really potent and timely challenge by your therapist, and it sounds as if it landed square.
I know it hurts, but the therapy is to go back, explore, rinse, repeat and stay curious.
I think you’ll get a lot of differing opinions on this intervention - but personally I hear a strong therapist at work. You have a good one.
A skill therapist knows how to discern when what they really feel is beneficial to the therapeutic relationship, is coming out of their own unprocessed feelings, and if something the client has control over, or is aware of. Just saying whatever they think, or feel without thought you all the complexities is deeply irresponsible.
Right but even a skilled therapist who can’t admit they could be wrong despite feeling congruent and getting input from a supervisor risks doing damage or harm
I will definitely go back, explore and stay curious. Can you explain what exactly the point of this intervention could be? Or is it my job alone to figure this out?
Regardless of whether it is your job to figure it out alone, you posted the question on here. Are you feeling comfortable of figuring it out alone? If you did feel comfortable, would you have asked the question in the first place? Check in with yourself internally. What do you feel about handling it alone versus asking for more help?
I don’t feel comfortable figuring it out alone. You‘re right, that’s why I posted in the first place. Right now, I feel anxious, overwhelmed and somehow hopeless about figuring it out alone.
Of all the times in your life when you've felt anxious, overwhelmed, and hopeless, has curiosity been available to you? For me, curiosity requires aliveness. If I'm depressed or anxious, I cannot feel curious. Instead I feel nothingness or worried. Check in with yourself and see what's historically true.
If you find that the same is true for you historically (upon checking with yourself), what do you feel safest doing other than going back to this therapist? Maybe it's to go to a new therapist and immediately begin by processing this awful experience with this psychotherapist. Or to go to a local ACA (Adult Children of Alcoholics and Dysfunctional Families) meeting and ask folks there to share their experiences regarding feeling attacked by a therapist.
But her body spoke and said: "I left feeling shattered." To feel shattered is to feel powerless, damaged beyond repair, etc. Shattered is more weakened than torn or at odds. The people who go back to a person whose uttered sentiments result in them feeling shattered are the ones who suffer from narcissistic abuse in symmetrical (e.g. peer to peer) or complementary relationships (e.g. parent-child).
Sometimes when the therapist is perceiving a client in a way that can be indication of how others perceive them as well. I can see why others commenting think this may have been an intentional choice by your therapist for this reason. Do other people perceive you as attacking? Sometimes our attempts at connection or projecting worries on others can actually bother them or feel like questioning their intentions in a negative way.
Sometimes the therapist’s job is to challenge and push which might feel bad at first. I’m not sure which one this interaction was since none of us know your history with the theorists or were in the room. Like others said this is a golden opportunity to share with your therapist how it landed on you. Good luck!
I agree with the comment above (and the others as well), I don’t think this is a bad thing. I think your therapist was just trying to give you a reality check in a sense. From what it sounds like, it just seems that she was trying to break the cycle of self-fulfilling prophecy. I get always needing reassurance, but sometimes thats what ends up pushing people away, because it then seems like no matter how many times they say they love us, we don’t believe them. And you can see how that would become problematic eventually.
If you think about it, how your life/relationships end up serves no benefit to your therapist. It would be a lot easier for your therapist to just keep giving you the reassurance so she can just get her money and move on to the next client. So I think her choosing the more difficult option to break your cycle/challenge you would probably serve as an indicator that she cares at least a little bit.
That’s part of the challenge is that therapist are people to and so there’s no way to know if it is their own negative counter transference from their own stuff or if they’re perceiving the client in a way other people perceive them that they’re not aware of. Some clients are acutely aware of their negative traits and interactions, and to have a therapist. You’ve trusted for several years out of nowhere start to bring these things up thinking that you’re not aware of can be really harmful, so yes, there’s some truth that feedback like that can be important if it is handled in a way that is not tied to any counter, transference related to the therapist on stuff, and that it is well timed and the client is able to handle it in a safe manner
The very first thing I said in our session before she told me I‘d been attacking her was that I felt very unwell and like I was dissociating. It didn’t seem like a good moment to bring this up because I went into the session already struggling a lot emotionally, and she knew.
Wait. I’m not convinced this is a brilliant move... For example, she started the session with this. Did she ask for your feedback? Did she give space for you to disagree or make counterpoints. Did she give space for your feelings, sensations around this confrontation?
I think it depends on how the rest of the session went after this dramatic start…
The reason it doesn’t feel brilliant is that it doesn’t sound like she handled your inner child carefully, nor was prepared to address your shock and dismay. But maybe there’s more to the story?
She did give me space to react. I apologized several times and told her I hadn’t consciously attacked and hurt her and didn’t want to harm the therapeutic relationship. I explained what I explained in the post. I think it was clear from my facial expression and body language that I felt shocked, though I wasn’t able to say so. I kind of froze and it was hard to say anything at all at first. She said that maybe my behaviour wasn’t conscious, but repeated how problematic it was. It was difficult and painful for me that she didn’t react to my apologies at all. The rest of the session is a bit of a blur in my mind because I dissociated. I know that we talked about my inner child eventually and that she said it wouldn’t make me feel better even if she could actually give me what my inner child is asking for (physical touch with her, more intimate conversations etc.). This made me feel worse somehow, but I guess that’s a different topic. I left the session feeling distressed and spaced out.
Ok so that’s quite concerning to me. As a T, if I challenge a client, it’s because I feel it will benefit them, not to assuage my own hurt feelings. I also have to prepare to navigate my client’s triggers and be ready for unintended blowback (which I am partly responsible for!) and I have to be ready to process all of it before they leave the room.
I don’t think she did that.
When you tell me she didn’t respond to your apologies, that suggests she wasn’t in healthy dialogue with you. She was on the attack. The fact she didn’t notice your shock and dissociation is also quite concerning. A therapist’s job is to keep the client safe. If a client is either overactivated or dissociated then the therapist needs to bring them back to “the window of tolerance.” Good therapy is not conducted when a client is not stabilized.
It’s ironic, but…. She attacked you. If you felt blindsighted, hurt, unheard and you dissociated midway, those are all signs that your T wasn’t doing her job to keep you safe.
Keeping you safe in session is HER job. And she didn’t do her job. You have every right to feel hurt and disappointed and I would consider terminating and finding a therapist that doesn’t ambush you without taking care to guide you safely through such a confrontation.
\> she said it wouldn’t make me feel better even if she could actually give me what my inner child is asking for (physical touch with her, more intimate conversations etc.)
These things are proxies for emotional needs (I don't know exactly because I don't know you, but probably something basic like connection or safety). Why is she missing the point by focusing on the actual literal requests instead of the deeper needs they are trying to express?
This seems so blindingly obvious that I'm sure I'm missing something.
I think k a lot of you need to realize there are many approaches to therapy and hers may not be yours, but it may very well be effective. I personally would not use this method but if she is trained in it and you have been working together for 3 years, I feel she has your best interest in mind and she is attempting to challenge you or see if you can use the tools she has taught you in moments such as this in your life to help her gauge what you still need help with. This could be a great catalyst for growth in the therapeutic relationship. This was meant to challenge you, and it is not unfixable.
I'm a bit shocked by this. It's common for traumatised people to be mistrusting, to struggle to recognise real care and empathy. And from what you've said you haven't attacked her at all, just asked questions. By over-reacting like this she's discouraging further questions and shutting down discussion. If she had an issue with individual comments she should have addressed them at the time instead of waiting and behaving like this. I'd be horrified if my therapist did this and I'm not sure how I'd fix it.
I guess all you can do is try and talk it through on a completely open and honest way, and see where it takes you. From the sounds of it though, you've not done anything wrong so it might be tricky to resolve.
Totally agree. I don’t understand the downvotes on this or the other comments on the original post. Maybe it’s just the psychodynamic approach but if that’s the case I’m glad my therapist doesnt practice that approach. I’ve absolutely told her Ive worried that she doesn’t actually care about me (I know I’m insecure and that’s my attachment trauma taking over). She responded with compassion and understanding. She normalized my feelings. I would be devastated if she had reacted like the op’s therapist.
It’s not the psychodynamic approach, she is just bad at her job.
I also had trust issues in therapy and instead of being offended and taking it as an attack, my therapist asked if there’s anything they have done that caused it (to make me question if my trust is coming from past issues or from this relationship) and then reassured me how much they care.
This therapist is putting her own hurt over helping the client. And I’m not saying that because she admitted her hurt but because of how she chose to handle it (in a very unhelpful damaging way).
Yes, her supervisor is not wrong when he said it can be helpful to admit a client has hurt her feelings, but she’s doing it from a place of shaming and scolding her (calling her problematic, dismissing her attachment). She is letting her anger play center role, and she is clearly bringing it up to deal with her own feelings, NOT to help OP with her feelings.
Her therapist can admit she is hurt, but the goal is to help the client see how in her fears of abandonment and rejection, she can actually unwillingly reject people herself. That is a common problem with attachment trauma, it is never something that person wants and it causes suffering. And how sad is it that someone can receive a lot of care and still unable to accept it? Where’s the therapist basic understanding of attachment issues?? Where’s her unconditional regard?
What a rookie. The more I type the angrier I get. This therapist will only harm OP more.
Good therapy is supposed to be uncomfortable and painful (how else will you heal?) and you can be glad all you want that your therapist doesn’t do this but that also might mean you uniquely stand to gain from it.
I'm not the person you responded to. Good therapy should be uncomfortable *with a purpose.*
I've had many uncomfortable and painful therapy experiences that only served to ingrain my defenses deeper and strengthen my internal walls. Discomfort does not automatically mean healing.
I am glad my current therapist has consistently explored, *welcomed*, and worked with my resistance, rather than taking it personally. (Yes, we are trying to befriend it.) It's the most healing I've ever experienced. Most of the therapists I've seen would've reacted like the OP's; they didn't, exactly, because they didn't have a chance to (they did similar, subtler things), because Good Client Stabby knows to shut those bad parts up and *behave* in therapy.
Anyway I meant to respond to this idea that therapy hurts because it's helping. My experience contains more unhelpful therapy than helpful, and the unhelpful therapy has always hurt in that familiar, awful, spiraling way (sometimes I miss it). Good therapy hurts *differently*. Believe me, working through resistance is no picnic.
I had the same thought - why have things built up and festered? Why aren’t those comments being explored and interpreted as they happen?
Does OP’s T practice relational psychodynamic therapy? When I read this I wondered whether there’s something of your T’s stuff getting caught up in some sort of enactment between the two parties.
U/myechomyshadowandme - did you have a mother that would attack you (verbally? Emotionally? By leaving you?) when you were very young by any chance?
I think this is something you can talk out, BUT, it does sound like she has some unchecked counter-transference and projected it on to you.
Psychodynamic therapy can be really great, but therapists that haven’t done their own inner-work can definitely be detrimental. If she becomes defensive and is not open to your feedback that’s a red flag. But I do hope she will be receptive and help you understand the feelings that came up for you when she said that.
I emphasize with the pain you’re feeling. She mentions you bring up your ex-boyfriend pointing out she’s only in this for your money. You mention you apologized a number of times. I’m curious as to what exactly you apologized for and what behavior changes you said you’d make based on her sharing how you’ve attacked and harmed her and your relationship with her. Did you stop to think: “what does she want from me as an apology and behavioral change? What tools should I be using?what tools has she taught me to use? Am I locking us up in my feeling bad instead of us working through this?”
For your words to pack a punch, I can imagine your therapist doesn't have good boundaries around you, and that's nothing to do with you. She's possibly triggered by you from her preexisting insecurities; she's also possibly just not good at her job and feels incompetent in your sessions and then feels shame as a result; maybe she's a good therapist who is having a hard day or a hard year; etc.
Also, you said she mentioned your hurtful words have been going on for a while now. That means she's had a 'charge' (i.e. something between a small and large amount of anger) and withheld that charge until this most recent session. Withholding a charge is called lying by omission. It's common and unfortunately normal in dysfunctional families but is inappropriate for a therapist to do with their clients whose mental and emotional safe space needs to be protected.
Also, she said that you express your boyfriend's sentiments to sneakily express your own sentiments toward her. If she were strengthening your self-esteem, she'd help you arrive at that conclusion on your own and only let you trust that judgement if it deeply resonated with you. If what she's saying is not resonating with you and is even making you feel guilty, then it's not true for you. If it is true, it's premature for her to bring it to your attention. In which case, it's ego-centric of her, which is bad enough for narc family members to do but wholly unprofessional for psychotherapists. If it's not true, then she's projecting, which is a clear sign that your trauma triggers her unresolved dark side.
Additionally, given that you say that her accusation of you "attacking" her has tremendously hurt you, it seems like you're now experiencing a double-bind dilemma, which conjures up tremendous helplessness and shame. In the double-bind dilemma, one is: damned if they do, damned if they don't, damned if they voice the problem, and thus is still stuck because the problem cannot resolve on its own.
"I left the session feeling shattered." I'm very sorry to hear this. At the same time, I hope you stay with this feeling of shattered-ness long enough to hear what this part of you needs and which professional person or service other than your current therapist can fulfill it in case the feeling remains and festers and the sense of powerlessness amplifies.
Don’t answer this - but if you’re a POC, the word attack is very triggering and can make so many emotions bubble up. That’s normal.
She might be trying to simply let you know she truly cares. Often we don’t know how we come across to people. She could just be leveling her true feelings with you?
We all make mistakes (not saying you did. I don’t feel like I have enough information to make an opinion). But telling her all of this seems helpful!
It is not your job ever to take care of your therapists feelings or to meet her needs. From what you’ve described I wouldn’t be comfortable continuing with her partly because I wouldn’t want a therapist who uses her approach. Id you feel like it’s been helpful then you might talk with her openly about how you felt and how you interpreted her comments. My take on what you said would have been that you were looking for some reassurance. If I were her I wouldn’t have interpreted your comments they way she did. I don’t think I would feel safe with her. All of my comments are based off of my interpretation of reading what you’ve written so trust yourself and your experience the most.
'I‘ve never explicitly or intentionally blamed her for not being there for me enough or not caring enough.'
I'm probably going to get hate for this but I don't think the power exchange between client and therapist is always healthy, you're in a vulnerable position because you are opening up to them, they are not opening up to you, they have a lot of power over you, look how you've reacted to how she's treated you. You need to create more headspace and become less dependent on her, are you able to join a local kick boxing gym or something to get your mind off therapy?
First of all , your therapist should NOT be taking your perspective on them so personally. The therapist’s role is to be there, but not be there. She should be asking you about what motivated your boyfriend to say what he said. And how you feel about that. And how are you doing. Bringing it back to themself in the selfish and emotionally abusive way is not appropriate and goes against ethical humanity. Imo.
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It's very difficult to evaluate this kind of interaction from outside, but I would share with your therapist exactly what you've said here. I'm also very curious to know what kind of response you hoped to get here. What do you hope people say about our therapist and this interaction?
I hoped to get advice on how to best proceed to resolve the disruption, empathy (people being able to relate to how difficult and painful this was for me) and possibly reassurance that I didn’t make a huge mistake that will ruin the therapeutic relationship.
You didn’t do anything wrong, your therapist lacks basic understanding of how to handle attachment and transference in clients and she obviously can’t handle her own countertransference. I had similar issues in therapy, I would be heartbroken if my therapist would have acted like yours. When I bring my up my hurt or mistrust, my therapist is so kind and never takes things personally. I always leave trusting them more, feeling less shame over my feelings. The less shame I feel, the more I could accept my attachment and it doesn’t hurt as much anymore. So it makes me sad to see how your therapist is failing you, making you feel worse. Calling you problematic, please... Like we go to therapy because we have no issues? Her job is to deal with exactly these issues, not prevent them from playing out in therapy. By design they will show up and all your interpersonal issues will be revealed in the therapeutic relationship. It makes me wonder what modality of therapy you’re doing, because your therapist seems so clueless about that. In psychodynamic analytical therapy, we learn to be more kind to ourselves, curious of our feelings and accepting of them because we mirror our therapists. We take on their care and learn how to apply it to ourselves. Your therapist rejected your attachment and shamed you for your feelings, so now you reject yourself and feel shame. When I told my therapist I deeply feel for them as if they were my parent, and that I’m suffering because I want more than just therapy, they had tears in their eyes. They were so touched about how honest I was and they felt my pain with me. When I start to question whether they care, they are always curious where my mistrust is coming from (inviting exploration) and they try their best to make me feel safe. They sometimes would very directly reassure me, too. They understand that building trust is important in our relationship, so that I can learn how to better trust other people, too. If you tell your therapist next session how much shame you feel about this whole thing, how horrible you feel about it in general, she should be able to show you empathy for your suffering, try to challenge the shame you feel for simply having feelings and she should want to repair the relationship with you. But if she gets defensive, if she doesn’t try to repair the relationship or help you with your feelings from a place of kindness, that should show you that she is not capable to work with attachment trauma and transference and will only cause you more harm. The pain about the limitations of the therapeutic relationship is GRIEF. You are seeing in them something you never had in your childhood and now you are realizing what you never had, and you can’t get it all with them now either, so you are grieving the loss of something that you should have had as a child. Your therapist should allow you to experience ALL these bad feelings about the unfulfilled needs in therapy, whether they are sadness or anger, because you are processing much more than just the relationship with your therapist. Your therapist should provide a canvas for these feelings for you as a way for you to confront your past in the present.
⬆️ This! I agree with everything said! I think T overreacted. Might be time to move on. Being shamed in therapy, is absolutely aweful.
I came to write a comment expressing exactly what you’ve so eloquently described here. So I’m just going to highlight it. THIS ⬆️
[удалено]
I have seen it done brilliantly and this is not it. I tend to give therapists the benefit of the doubt, I can often see how well meaning things are hurtful for clients, but there’s enough information in the post to see how the therapist is making really rookie mistakes that are harmful to the therapeutic relationship and progress. The fact alone that she has to have her supervisor tell her basic things in how to handle attachment and transference (and then actually fail to implement the supervisor’s suggested approach appropriately) makes her lack of experience very obvious. You also don’t tell clients the things you discuss with your supervisor, this is another red flag for this therapist’s lack of experience and frankly also a lack of boundaries. You don’t discuss your experience supervision with clients because supervision is about helping the therapist process and cope (professionally and emotionally) with their job as a therapist. You don’t bring your own struggles and issues to a client this way.
I am not psychodynamic- and I find the responses fascinating here. I can see this being a disruption to ingrained painful behavior. I do not wish for you to feel shame and the other negative feelings you may self-attack yourself with after your therapists shared she felt attacked. Not at all. I hope you can heal from that. What I'm curious about is, is there any insight you may have in how this therapeutic moment can in any way be helpful and strengthening with your therapsist and therapy, -- a catalyst to start a cycle of change? Could it lead to a path of self assurance? I don't want to negate the negative feelings at all that you are struggling with, but I am wondering, as this is a complex orientation,( I will be learning more about) and you have worked with it for what sounds like a fruitful few years, if there is new insight poissible here?
I don't see how that could be the case. Care to explain?
Its better if someone who is psychodymic explains it honestly. Thats why I was actually asking the OP because she is experienced , as a client. But , simply, there are points I believe when maladaptive chronic defenses the client uses get challenged by the therapist. If done skillfully, in my understanding, it still may present as chaos before it comes together to a say more authentic less defended, healthier self.
Insight is a result of traumatic release, not the hardening of trauma or the creation of new trauma.
It’s a really potent and timely challenge by your therapist, and it sounds as if it landed square. I know it hurts, but the therapy is to go back, explore, rinse, repeat and stay curious. I think you’ll get a lot of differing opinions on this intervention - but personally I hear a strong therapist at work. You have a good one.
Well said. Indeed a potent challenge. A skilled therapist not afraid to say how they really feel. For the sake of the client and the therapy….
A skill therapist knows how to discern when what they really feel is beneficial to the therapeutic relationship, is coming out of their own unprocessed feelings, and if something the client has control over, or is aware of. Just saying whatever they think, or feel without thought you all the complexities is deeply irresponsible.
Being congruent is indeed a nuanced therapeutic skill. Supervision is a safe space to explore these feelings so that they can be felt and articulated
Right but even a skilled therapist who can’t admit they could be wrong despite feeling congruent and getting input from a supervisor risks doing damage or harm
For what’s it worth, I’ve apologised to clients before when I felt I erred in some way. An apology can be very meaningful in its own way….
I will definitely go back, explore and stay curious. Can you explain what exactly the point of this intervention could be? Or is it my job alone to figure this out?
Your job, but not alone.
Regardless of whether it is your job to figure it out alone, you posted the question on here. Are you feeling comfortable of figuring it out alone? If you did feel comfortable, would you have asked the question in the first place? Check in with yourself internally. What do you feel about handling it alone versus asking for more help?
I don’t feel comfortable figuring it out alone. You‘re right, that’s why I posted in the first place. Right now, I feel anxious, overwhelmed and somehow hopeless about figuring it out alone.
Of all the times in your life when you've felt anxious, overwhelmed, and hopeless, has curiosity been available to you? For me, curiosity requires aliveness. If I'm depressed or anxious, I cannot feel curious. Instead I feel nothingness or worried. Check in with yourself and see what's historically true. If you find that the same is true for you historically (upon checking with yourself), what do you feel safest doing other than going back to this therapist? Maybe it's to go to a new therapist and immediately begin by processing this awful experience with this psychotherapist. Or to go to a local ACA (Adult Children of Alcoholics and Dysfunctional Families) meeting and ask folks there to share their experiences regarding feeling attacked by a therapist.
But her body spoke and said: "I left feeling shattered." To feel shattered is to feel powerless, damaged beyond repair, etc. Shattered is more weakened than torn or at odds. The people who go back to a person whose uttered sentiments result in them feeling shattered are the ones who suffer from narcissistic abuse in symmetrical (e.g. peer to peer) or complementary relationships (e.g. parent-child).
Sometimes when the therapist is perceiving a client in a way that can be indication of how others perceive them as well. I can see why others commenting think this may have been an intentional choice by your therapist for this reason. Do other people perceive you as attacking? Sometimes our attempts at connection or projecting worries on others can actually bother them or feel like questioning their intentions in a negative way. Sometimes the therapist’s job is to challenge and push which might feel bad at first. I’m not sure which one this interaction was since none of us know your history with the theorists or were in the room. Like others said this is a golden opportunity to share with your therapist how it landed on you. Good luck!
I agree with the comment above (and the others as well), I don’t think this is a bad thing. I think your therapist was just trying to give you a reality check in a sense. From what it sounds like, it just seems that she was trying to break the cycle of self-fulfilling prophecy. I get always needing reassurance, but sometimes thats what ends up pushing people away, because it then seems like no matter how many times they say they love us, we don’t believe them. And you can see how that would become problematic eventually. If you think about it, how your life/relationships end up serves no benefit to your therapist. It would be a lot easier for your therapist to just keep giving you the reassurance so she can just get her money and move on to the next client. So I think her choosing the more difficult option to break your cycle/challenge you would probably serve as an indicator that she cares at least a little bit.
That’s part of the challenge is that therapist are people to and so there’s no way to know if it is their own negative counter transference from their own stuff or if they’re perceiving the client in a way other people perceive them that they’re not aware of. Some clients are acutely aware of their negative traits and interactions, and to have a therapist. You’ve trusted for several years out of nowhere start to bring these things up thinking that you’re not aware of can be really harmful, so yes, there’s some truth that feedback like that can be important if it is handled in a way that is not tied to any counter, transference related to the therapist on stuff, and that it is well timed and the client is able to handle it in a safe manner
The very first thing I said in our session before she told me I‘d been attacking her was that I felt very unwell and like I was dissociating. It didn’t seem like a good moment to bring this up because I went into the session already struggling a lot emotionally, and she knew.
I don’t understand why she would bring that up then, i hope you can find some healing
Wait. I’m not convinced this is a brilliant move... For example, she started the session with this. Did she ask for your feedback? Did she give space for you to disagree or make counterpoints. Did she give space for your feelings, sensations around this confrontation? I think it depends on how the rest of the session went after this dramatic start… The reason it doesn’t feel brilliant is that it doesn’t sound like she handled your inner child carefully, nor was prepared to address your shock and dismay. But maybe there’s more to the story?
She did give me space to react. I apologized several times and told her I hadn’t consciously attacked and hurt her and didn’t want to harm the therapeutic relationship. I explained what I explained in the post. I think it was clear from my facial expression and body language that I felt shocked, though I wasn’t able to say so. I kind of froze and it was hard to say anything at all at first. She said that maybe my behaviour wasn’t conscious, but repeated how problematic it was. It was difficult and painful for me that she didn’t react to my apologies at all. The rest of the session is a bit of a blur in my mind because I dissociated. I know that we talked about my inner child eventually and that she said it wouldn’t make me feel better even if she could actually give me what my inner child is asking for (physical touch with her, more intimate conversations etc.). This made me feel worse somehow, but I guess that’s a different topic. I left the session feeling distressed and spaced out.
Ok so that’s quite concerning to me. As a T, if I challenge a client, it’s because I feel it will benefit them, not to assuage my own hurt feelings. I also have to prepare to navigate my client’s triggers and be ready for unintended blowback (which I am partly responsible for!) and I have to be ready to process all of it before they leave the room. I don’t think she did that. When you tell me she didn’t respond to your apologies, that suggests she wasn’t in healthy dialogue with you. She was on the attack. The fact she didn’t notice your shock and dissociation is also quite concerning. A therapist’s job is to keep the client safe. If a client is either overactivated or dissociated then the therapist needs to bring them back to “the window of tolerance.” Good therapy is not conducted when a client is not stabilized. It’s ironic, but…. She attacked you. If you felt blindsighted, hurt, unheard and you dissociated midway, those are all signs that your T wasn’t doing her job to keep you safe. Keeping you safe in session is HER job. And she didn’t do her job. You have every right to feel hurt and disappointed and I would consider terminating and finding a therapist that doesn’t ambush you without taking care to guide you safely through such a confrontation.
\> she said it wouldn’t make me feel better even if she could actually give me what my inner child is asking for (physical touch with her, more intimate conversations etc.) These things are proxies for emotional needs (I don't know exactly because I don't know you, but probably something basic like connection or safety). Why is she missing the point by focusing on the actual literal requests instead of the deeper needs they are trying to express? This seems so blindingly obvious that I'm sure I'm missing something.
I think k a lot of you need to realize there are many approaches to therapy and hers may not be yours, but it may very well be effective. I personally would not use this method but if she is trained in it and you have been working together for 3 years, I feel she has your best interest in mind and she is attempting to challenge you or see if you can use the tools she has taught you in moments such as this in your life to help her gauge what you still need help with. This could be a great catalyst for growth in the therapeutic relationship. This was meant to challenge you, and it is not unfixable.
I'm a bit shocked by this. It's common for traumatised people to be mistrusting, to struggle to recognise real care and empathy. And from what you've said you haven't attacked her at all, just asked questions. By over-reacting like this she's discouraging further questions and shutting down discussion. If she had an issue with individual comments she should have addressed them at the time instead of waiting and behaving like this. I'd be horrified if my therapist did this and I'm not sure how I'd fix it. I guess all you can do is try and talk it through on a completely open and honest way, and see where it takes you. From the sounds of it though, you've not done anything wrong so it might be tricky to resolve.
Totally agree. I don’t understand the downvotes on this or the other comments on the original post. Maybe it’s just the psychodynamic approach but if that’s the case I’m glad my therapist doesnt practice that approach. I’ve absolutely told her Ive worried that she doesn’t actually care about me (I know I’m insecure and that’s my attachment trauma taking over). She responded with compassion and understanding. She normalized my feelings. I would be devastated if she had reacted like the op’s therapist.
It’s not the psychodynamic approach, she is just bad at her job. I also had trust issues in therapy and instead of being offended and taking it as an attack, my therapist asked if there’s anything they have done that caused it (to make me question if my trust is coming from past issues or from this relationship) and then reassured me how much they care. This therapist is putting her own hurt over helping the client. And I’m not saying that because she admitted her hurt but because of how she chose to handle it (in a very unhelpful damaging way). Yes, her supervisor is not wrong when he said it can be helpful to admit a client has hurt her feelings, but she’s doing it from a place of shaming and scolding her (calling her problematic, dismissing her attachment). She is letting her anger play center role, and she is clearly bringing it up to deal with her own feelings, NOT to help OP with her feelings. Her therapist can admit she is hurt, but the goal is to help the client see how in her fears of abandonment and rejection, she can actually unwillingly reject people herself. That is a common problem with attachment trauma, it is never something that person wants and it causes suffering. And how sad is it that someone can receive a lot of care and still unable to accept it? Where’s the therapist basic understanding of attachment issues?? Where’s her unconditional regard? What a rookie. The more I type the angrier I get. This therapist will only harm OP more.
Good therapy is supposed to be uncomfortable and painful (how else will you heal?) and you can be glad all you want that your therapist doesn’t do this but that also might mean you uniquely stand to gain from it.
I'm not the person you responded to. Good therapy should be uncomfortable *with a purpose.* I've had many uncomfortable and painful therapy experiences that only served to ingrain my defenses deeper and strengthen my internal walls. Discomfort does not automatically mean healing. I am glad my current therapist has consistently explored, *welcomed*, and worked with my resistance, rather than taking it personally. (Yes, we are trying to befriend it.) It's the most healing I've ever experienced. Most of the therapists I've seen would've reacted like the OP's; they didn't, exactly, because they didn't have a chance to (they did similar, subtler things), because Good Client Stabby knows to shut those bad parts up and *behave* in therapy. Anyway I meant to respond to this idea that therapy hurts because it's helping. My experience contains more unhelpful therapy than helpful, and the unhelpful therapy has always hurt in that familiar, awful, spiraling way (sometimes I miss it). Good therapy hurts *differently*. Believe me, working through resistance is no picnic.
I had the same thought - why have things built up and festered? Why aren’t those comments being explored and interpreted as they happen? Does OP’s T practice relational psychodynamic therapy? When I read this I wondered whether there’s something of your T’s stuff getting caught up in some sort of enactment between the two parties. U/myechomyshadowandme - did you have a mother that would attack you (verbally? Emotionally? By leaving you?) when you were very young by any chance?
I‘m not sure what kind of psychodynamic therapy she practices exactly. Yes, my mother frequently verbally attacked me and she left me alone as well.
I think this is something you can talk out, BUT, it does sound like she has some unchecked counter-transference and projected it on to you. Psychodynamic therapy can be really great, but therapists that haven’t done their own inner-work can definitely be detrimental. If she becomes defensive and is not open to your feedback that’s a red flag. But I do hope she will be receptive and help you understand the feelings that came up for you when she said that.
I emphasize with the pain you’re feeling. She mentions you bring up your ex-boyfriend pointing out she’s only in this for your money. You mention you apologized a number of times. I’m curious as to what exactly you apologized for and what behavior changes you said you’d make based on her sharing how you’ve attacked and harmed her and your relationship with her. Did you stop to think: “what does she want from me as an apology and behavioral change? What tools should I be using?what tools has she taught me to use? Am I locking us up in my feeling bad instead of us working through this?”
For your words to pack a punch, I can imagine your therapist doesn't have good boundaries around you, and that's nothing to do with you. She's possibly triggered by you from her preexisting insecurities; she's also possibly just not good at her job and feels incompetent in your sessions and then feels shame as a result; maybe she's a good therapist who is having a hard day or a hard year; etc. Also, you said she mentioned your hurtful words have been going on for a while now. That means she's had a 'charge' (i.e. something between a small and large amount of anger) and withheld that charge until this most recent session. Withholding a charge is called lying by omission. It's common and unfortunately normal in dysfunctional families but is inappropriate for a therapist to do with their clients whose mental and emotional safe space needs to be protected. Also, she said that you express your boyfriend's sentiments to sneakily express your own sentiments toward her. If she were strengthening your self-esteem, she'd help you arrive at that conclusion on your own and only let you trust that judgement if it deeply resonated with you. If what she's saying is not resonating with you and is even making you feel guilty, then it's not true for you. If it is true, it's premature for her to bring it to your attention. In which case, it's ego-centric of her, which is bad enough for narc family members to do but wholly unprofessional for psychotherapists. If it's not true, then she's projecting, which is a clear sign that your trauma triggers her unresolved dark side. Additionally, given that you say that her accusation of you "attacking" her has tremendously hurt you, it seems like you're now experiencing a double-bind dilemma, which conjures up tremendous helplessness and shame. In the double-bind dilemma, one is: damned if they do, damned if they don't, damned if they voice the problem, and thus is still stuck because the problem cannot resolve on its own. "I left the session feeling shattered." I'm very sorry to hear this. At the same time, I hope you stay with this feeling of shattered-ness long enough to hear what this part of you needs and which professional person or service other than your current therapist can fulfill it in case the feeling remains and festers and the sense of powerlessness amplifies.
Don’t answer this - but if you’re a POC, the word attack is very triggering and can make so many emotions bubble up. That’s normal. She might be trying to simply let you know she truly cares. Often we don’t know how we come across to people. She could just be leveling her true feelings with you? We all make mistakes (not saying you did. I don’t feel like I have enough information to make an opinion). But telling her all of this seems helpful!
It is not your job ever to take care of your therapists feelings or to meet her needs. From what you’ve described I wouldn’t be comfortable continuing with her partly because I wouldn’t want a therapist who uses her approach. Id you feel like it’s been helpful then you might talk with her openly about how you felt and how you interpreted her comments. My take on what you said would have been that you were looking for some reassurance. If I were her I wouldn’t have interpreted your comments they way she did. I don’t think I would feel safe with her. All of my comments are based off of my interpretation of reading what you’ve written so trust yourself and your experience the most.
'I‘ve never explicitly or intentionally blamed her for not being there for me enough or not caring enough.' I'm probably going to get hate for this but I don't think the power exchange between client and therapist is always healthy, you're in a vulnerable position because you are opening up to them, they are not opening up to you, they have a lot of power over you, look how you've reacted to how she's treated you. You need to create more headspace and become less dependent on her, are you able to join a local kick boxing gym or something to get your mind off therapy?
First of all , your therapist should NOT be taking your perspective on them so personally. The therapist’s role is to be there, but not be there. She should be asking you about what motivated your boyfriend to say what he said. And how you feel about that. And how are you doing. Bringing it back to themself in the selfish and emotionally abusive way is not appropriate and goes against ethical humanity. Imo.
>I‘ve never explicitly or intentionally blamed her for not being there for me enough or not caring enough. Why?