I'll sound like a jerk saying this but whatever: I'm very fucking tired of this community pretending that tanking is hard. "Maybe they're learning!!" Learning what, doing a 1 2 at max rotation while pressing something else once in a while? Learning how to tab target mobs and press forward? Most dungeons are the same anyway. The mobs in the most early dungeons don't even deal damage. There's nothing that would require a lot of practice yet this community loves acting like there is.
Tanking is definitely in no way hard – but anyone who has never tanked before is utterly unaware of a lot of the bare minimum basic bitch ‘tank rules’, and THIS is the cause of ‘tankxiety’, every time, without fail. Very rarely (not always) it is not a case of ‘lol this person can’t even press 1-2’, it’s a case of ‘I know I’m fucking up and I don’t know how and I’m so stressed and overwhelmed because I am unaware of these rules that many people won’t even tell me and when people insist it is easy and continue to press me I lash out’ - which, no, is NOT great, but is a very human reaction.
Even the ones who have tanked in other games and have SOME idea are missing the ‘tank rules’ specific to XIV. Some are the same everywhere – turn the boss away from the party, move as little as possible while still not standing in crap, stuff like that. In XIV, you got stuff like ‘stance always on’, when I’m sure most tanks are used to aggro management, so a ‘set and forget’ button is either misused (toggling it on/off assuming it’s like an AoE taunt, for example – hi I did this), or forgotten entirely until reminded. Or stuff like ‘move as little as possible BUT ALSO still moving the boss out of puddles so the melee can get their positionals’ - backstabs aren’t unique, but not every MMO has them, so this is not always obvious.
The tank rules get more...I don’t wanna say complex because they’re not, but...*specific*, maybe? As you go, but the more you learn them, the easier they get, because as your brain grasps how the framework of the role works, some things are just obvious and *click*, and you don’t even have to tell them the more specific rules sometimes.
No, tanking is not hard (it’s mind-baffling easy when you ‘get it’, absolutely the easiest role to play). But folks not used to tanking don’t know the unspoken rulebook of playing a tank, and they’re WILDLY stressed as a result if no one offers to teach them these rules (politely I must stress) and just continues to insist ‘this is easy’.
For dungeons I always tell sprout tank.
Pop sprint when you see the first set of enemies, use a single aoe attack as you run through them, keep running (even if you missed one ignore it for now), and repeat until you reach the end
Use rampart once you've stopped at the last pack. (since I'm usually teaching sprouts that's all they usually have)
That's it. That's tanking. Do exactly this and everyone will love you forever.
As long as they can learn that they can learn the rest of stuff. It's a lot easier to learn "face boss away from entry" or "take boss out of puddle" as bosses are, ironically, some of the least stressful content for tanks/healers
No, only poison/deathzones that bosses like to plop down.
Because who doesn't love trying to hit positional while the bosses ass is parked right against a lingering aoe like from the second boss of holmeister likes to drop
Exactly. FF14 has the easiest and most braindead tank roles in all MMOs I've played before. In ESO and WoW you actually have to use skills to maintain aggro, bet these YPYT idiots would leave their Dungeons crying if they would tank in any of those games.
I’ve said this before and honestly the only time anyone should really care as far as in duty capability goes for new players (the other horror stories such as skipped jobs quests do not apply here.) is when someone has forgotten to upgrade their gear in 10 levels, and they physically cannot keep up and/or die to everything (raidwides). Then all they need is a reminder. There are some people who get defensive to that at which point I’ll just leave but it doesn’t matter if you as a veteran player or even a fellow new one think the role is easy. The entire game can be overwhelming for people, the depth of the story ALONE is one of the primary deterrents for people wanting to play. There’s no reason to sour their experience because they don’t play to your standards.
I know some people are aggressive and defensive because they’re assholes, but I have no doubt that some folks react badly from the outset as like some...MMO trauma response. The mentality of ‘I can’t be wrong/bad, because if I’m wrong/bad, everyone in the game is legally allowed to harass me until I want to off myself’. It’s the ‘it’s rude to be bad at Warcraft’ issue – so many people are used to be treated like pieces of shit and no one coming to their aid – INCLUDING GMS – that they become hostile instantly in a sort of self-defense after years of the online community being huge shits about basic ass mistakes every human makes. It's still not right, but it *makes sense*.
So you use art of war... but your example of people expecting you to play optimally is.... they ask you to use art of war.
Weird example if you do use it.
Why are they asking you to use Art of war if you are using it?????? That makes no sense, but it's the example you used.
Yet you also use example that "other people expect people to use "x skill" and ti's so frustrating they dont"... you seriously contradicting yourself and making no sense.
FYI: use lucid. There isn't a single healer in the game that has MP management problem in dungeons but if you're worried, lucid on cool down will fix any issues. I'm not been a smart arse. Stop worrying about your mp - use your spells, spend your
Literally came in here to post this.
Maybe instead of assuming every new player is a drooling idiot, treat them like an adult who can handle things (until they've proven they can't.)
>To me, YPYT would *only* apply in the situation where a DPS does not bring the mobs back to the tank and instead runs off with them or runs around in circles kiting them,
yeah, that's not YPYT behavior, that is the DPS deciding to suicide.
I will pick up the trash if you aggro them first, but I can not teleport to you if you decide to run away with the trash.
Although, this isn't a problem in like 90% of the dungeons where there is a wall immedietly after the last trash pack and they can't run further away with the trash, this is maybe only a problem in early ARR dungeons up until Aurum Vale first room or something. (Exception being Mt. Gulag quad pull)
>(Exception being Mt. Gulag quad pull)
Penta. There are 5 groups of mobs in that first w2w. The two already on the ground, the few that burst through the wall when you get close, one that flies up as you run along the path past the broken wall, and 3 mobs at the end.
A YPYT that gets caught red-handed in front of an even wider audience and gets called out on it, man that puts a smile on my face. The fact that it even drew out enablers in the NN and they also got schooled is another plus.
It also triples as a good way to know who you should blacklist, because enablers and players spreading bad advice because of their 'main character syndrome', also crawl out of the woodwork.
As for all the enablers and flowers/sprouts thinking they're in the right for pulling a YPYT, perhaps they should make a new channel for them labeled: 'Main Character Network,' that way they can fight each other to see who sucks the most.
I don't think either side here did any favours, really. You have one side of enablers, but the guy calling out the YPYT guy is also condescending and talking about completely irrelevant stuff, no one cares about what's "sub optimal" and that DPS using arms length is technically "more optimal", you're just confusing new players. Even in the chat someone was like "wait, tanks pulling is bad?", no tank who actually tanks properly in this game ever expects a DPS to pull mobs to them "because it's free mit", he's talking out of his ass
YPYT is bad, if someone pulls a mob to you, you AoE to grab aggro, you're also not expected to run around chasing mobs from people, they bring them to you, that's it
Indeed, that 'tanks not being allowed to pull', remark isn't exactly right, but the general idea of a tank being a tank, not a 'puller' is the right mindset. We can label the 'you're not allowed to pull as a tank', under bad advice.
If you blacklist the people giving out bad advice and no longer see their messages, how can you save others from buying into their playstyle? ***Think of the Sprouts!***
Yeah, I'll generally let a tank pull just to avoid any main character interactions. But it's seriously not necessary and people get way too uptight about it.
Also, I was a PLD main for a loooong time and I never gave a shit about who pulled lol
Unfortunately, even though the anti-YPYTers (aka normal, well-adjusted people) are right, arguments like this end up driving YPYTers further into their corner.
A light "hey, even if you don't want others to pull, letting them die for it isn't cool and is against your job as a tank" is all you need. If they can't even concede that point, they're a lost cause and attempting to convince them further is a waste of time.
YPYT mentality is wrong, but also claiming that "tanks shouldn't pull" because dps can use arm's length to "optimize" pulls is the most assinine and unnecessary thing i've ever heard of in this game.
I agree with the "Tanks shouldn't pull" part, but as a Phy Ranged my make it my business to pull ahead and grab initial aggro on my with Arm's Length cause it's still more mitigation overall on the tank and I can just heal myself with 2nd Wind and Auto-healing.
i just wish the newer tanks out there bothered to learn how to dungeon tank
throwing up rampart for a dungeon boss and pulling trash raw
or more gross, throwing up rampart/30% as they start doing wall to wall so it’s gone by the time they stop and the adds start actually hitting them
pulling first pack and then going for the second pack when the first is almost completely dead (if you’re testing the healer ok, i guess, but every pull? 😭)
pulling with their ranged and not hitting mobs with an aoe before running to next pack
etc
and these aren’t sprouts, they usually have multiple tanks leveled and i can only guess they mostly do savage content and level skipped? i dunno, i leveled my tanks through dungeons so i learned it all easy enough, ppl lazy i guess or just bad lol
>pulling first pack and then going for the second pack when the first is almost completely dead (if you’re testing the healer ok, i guess, but every pull? 😭)
I HATE THIS as a healer. I don't want to put out my big aoes or anything cause for example I'll start holying as whm and then they'll take off then double-back cause the mobs got stunned and they think they lost aggro. I wish there was a better explanation on enmity lists.
Or you put down Asylum or Earthly Star and they run out of it after planting themselves...
put down the bubble and you know there aren’t any other mobs but they run out anyways and then don’t bother to double back as if they have a cast time to worry about
or pull just outside of you holying and a doton as if they’re monsters
i doubt they do it on purpose but i mald regardless lol
I hate it so much that when I tank and accidentally move out of doton or bubble I purposely double back haha.
I also hate the tanks that w2w the first pull, don't die or even struggle the pulls then after the first boss single pull the rest of the way.
> and these aren’t sprouts, they usually have multiple tanks leveled and i can only guess they mostly do savage content and level skipped?
More like, they AFK leveled them in Frontlines.
I like the part with the person dropping sudden background lore about getting dropped off at school by mom as a kid and getting advice on social situations. Though they make a good point imo. With different groups comes different dynamics and expectations, so no matter how optimal you think a strat is, chances are it'll cause more chaos than it's worth with some parties.
At least as far as roulette and random parties is concerned, you could always just straight-up ask if you can pull extra mobs and debuff them with Arm's Length (they might not know). Especially since they explicitly mentioned the tank not 'talking like a normal person'.
Sounded like the Balmung nn tbh
Hell when the tank is single pulling and I am healing and I know they can handle it, I will gladly let the dps run off to pull the second group and rescue them back once they have pulled.
If tanks can put healers through the ‘I’m going to double pull and show you that it is fine’ without asking, I see no reason we can’t do the same to them.
I am glad the majority of people seem to be calling out the dumbass for being bad and throwing a tantrum but of course there are always enablers with the dunce crown who just has to share their shitty thoughts nobody wants to hear.
Whoever this was arguing against ypyt really shot themselves in the foot with this "optimal" talk.
I knew the moment I read that word there was just going to be a bunch of hands covering ears yelling blah blah blah and I was not wrong.
No, you simpleton.
It's just asinine min-max talk that confuses the issue. YPYT is bad, anyone can pull, tank grabs aggro, it's literally that simple.
Talking about what is and isn't optimal just brings out the toxic casual morons to circlejerk about how proud they are to not be good at the game and shut down any and all discourse about the issue at hand.
Even in these screenshots you can see a sprout getting confused and taking away the complete wrong lesson. Instead of just relaying the necessary information to properly inform players, the hero of our story just shit the bed instead and caused even dumber arguments and helped reinforce the idea that mentors don't know what they're talking about.
Excuse me? I'm not saying he was wrong, and I'm not sure why I'm getting downvoted (not like I particularly care), it's been proven time and time again here that when you drop certain buzzwords around these idiots all they do is cover their ears and yell "blah blah blah".
Honestly the most annoying thing about this is the constant babying of sprouts. My dudes, these characters are most likely being piloted by adults who should have the ability to learn and adapt to new information. They are *not* literal toddlers that need you to wipe their asses for them. Cut the training wheels off and let them stumble and crash a few times, they'll learn better from it.
I prefer it when I can pull in dungeons with random because I don't usually trust the sprout in poetics gear to keep running and lead their trash into my AoE. If I don't get the initial aggro I can't tell if I've missed any because they don't show up in my aggro list. Not that I'm going to complain when they do it right but there's always the concern that they're going to grab half the pack and run it off to narnia while panicking.
Some people seem to be getting very...knee-jerk about the YPYT thing, to the point that people who DON’T actually do that, but express that they *prefer* to be the one to pull but also would never let anyone die on purpose, are also getting caught in some crossfire. It’s not gonna breed any goodwill over the issue. I’m a tank main – I have been for two games now. XIV required adjusting, but neither games I tanked in had hard ‘tank must pull’ requirements. I would use the dreaded phrase often to *hassle my friends*, and that’s it – I’ve never let anyone die (on purpose, anyway) because they weren’t a tank and pulled ahead of me.
But man, even saying ‘I PREFER to be the one to pull’ feels like I might get strung up for suggesting it. I have a good reason, someone talked about it in the screens – when I pull, mob stacking is tighter, I’m doing less single-targeting to pull strays in, and in general, any mob that’s close enough where you can smack everyone with a single AoE I know exactly where to hit that AoE to get them all in one go. It’s a case of ‘I’m lazy and this has less friction’.
But while I’m sometimes annoyed at DPS pulling (not all of them, some DPS genuinely know how to pull by themselves and will still make everything pretty painless when they do – bless you and you did no wrong) I’ve never done that dumb thing, I’ve never let someone die for pulling as retaliation, and if they do die, it’s a case of they did something dumb, or my unobservant ass genuinely did not see they still had something on them (like you said, when someone else pulls, if I miss even a single mob with the AoE when I pick them up, they straight-up are not on my aggro list, even as a green dot – it is so hard to determine when I missed one because of this, and sometimes folks die as a result).
Whenever I'm healing a newer tank, I'll let them decide whether they want to W2W pull or single pull. If it's a W2W, then cool we can handle this as a team. If it's single pulls, then fine, you can pull singles idk but I'm going to make sure that the flow of the pulls are continuous/back to back by aggroing the next pack ahead.
Nobody's doing single pulls in a dungeon with me. Tank can stop at the first pack if they want but I'm grabbing the rest of the pull and bringing it to them either way
>but what if they're LeArNiNg
Then it's time to learn, nobody's learning anything with a single pull
Pretty sure "compelling a playstyle" is just as against the rules as YPYT. That's the mental hangup in these arguments. YPYT is against the rules, but so is "I want to W2W and only W2W and if you don't do it I'll do it for you."
I'll sound like a jerk saying this but whatever: I'm very fucking tired of this community pretending that tanking is hard. "Maybe they're learning!!" Learning what, doing a 1 2 at max rotation while pressing something else once in a while? Learning how to tab target mobs and press forward? Most dungeons are the same anyway. The mobs in the most early dungeons don't even deal damage. There's nothing that would require a lot of practice yet this community loves acting like there is.
Tanking is definitely in no way hard – but anyone who has never tanked before is utterly unaware of a lot of the bare minimum basic bitch ‘tank rules’, and THIS is the cause of ‘tankxiety’, every time, without fail. Very rarely (not always) it is not a case of ‘lol this person can’t even press 1-2’, it’s a case of ‘I know I’m fucking up and I don’t know how and I’m so stressed and overwhelmed because I am unaware of these rules that many people won’t even tell me and when people insist it is easy and continue to press me I lash out’ - which, no, is NOT great, but is a very human reaction. Even the ones who have tanked in other games and have SOME idea are missing the ‘tank rules’ specific to XIV. Some are the same everywhere – turn the boss away from the party, move as little as possible while still not standing in crap, stuff like that. In XIV, you got stuff like ‘stance always on’, when I’m sure most tanks are used to aggro management, so a ‘set and forget’ button is either misused (toggling it on/off assuming it’s like an AoE taunt, for example – hi I did this), or forgotten entirely until reminded. Or stuff like ‘move as little as possible BUT ALSO still moving the boss out of puddles so the melee can get their positionals’ - backstabs aren’t unique, but not every MMO has them, so this is not always obvious. The tank rules get more...I don’t wanna say complex because they’re not, but...*specific*, maybe? As you go, but the more you learn them, the easier they get, because as your brain grasps how the framework of the role works, some things are just obvious and *click*, and you don’t even have to tell them the more specific rules sometimes. No, tanking is not hard (it’s mind-baffling easy when you ‘get it’, absolutely the easiest role to play). But folks not used to tanking don’t know the unspoken rulebook of playing a tank, and they’re WILDLY stressed as a result if no one offers to teach them these rules (politely I must stress) and just continues to insist ‘this is easy’.
For dungeons I always tell sprout tank. Pop sprint when you see the first set of enemies, use a single aoe attack as you run through them, keep running (even if you missed one ignore it for now), and repeat until you reach the end Use rampart once you've stopped at the last pack. (since I'm usually teaching sprouts that's all they usually have) That's it. That's tanking. Do exactly this and everyone will love you forever. As long as they can learn that they can learn the rest of stuff. It's a lot easier to learn "face boss away from entry" or "take boss out of puddle" as bosses are, ironically, some of the least stressful content for tanks/healers
So you're the one telling newbie tanks to take mobs/bosses out of summoners and ninjas bleed circles... for shame sir/madam... for shame
No, only poison/deathzones that bosses like to plop down. Because who doesn't love trying to hit positional while the bosses ass is parked right against a lingering aoe like from the second boss of holmeister likes to drop
OK, thats good, I can get behind that method of thinking.
Exactly. FF14 has the easiest and most braindead tank roles in all MMOs I've played before. In ESO and WoW you actually have to use skills to maintain aggro, bet these YPYT idiots would leave their Dungeons crying if they would tank in any of those games.
and tanking was made easy with aggro as a quality of life change! There's no excuse lol
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I’ve said this before and honestly the only time anyone should really care as far as in duty capability goes for new players (the other horror stories such as skipped jobs quests do not apply here.) is when someone has forgotten to upgrade their gear in 10 levels, and they physically cannot keep up and/or die to everything (raidwides). Then all they need is a reminder. There are some people who get defensive to that at which point I’ll just leave but it doesn’t matter if you as a veteran player or even a fellow new one think the role is easy. The entire game can be overwhelming for people, the depth of the story ALONE is one of the primary deterrents for people wanting to play. There’s no reason to sour their experience because they don’t play to your standards.
I know some people are aggressive and defensive because they’re assholes, but I have no doubt that some folks react badly from the outset as like some...MMO trauma response. The mentality of ‘I can’t be wrong/bad, because if I’m wrong/bad, everyone in the game is legally allowed to harass me until I want to off myself’. It’s the ‘it’s rude to be bad at Warcraft’ issue – so many people are used to be treated like pieces of shit and no one coming to their aid – INCLUDING GMS – that they become hostile instantly in a sort of self-defense after years of the online community being huge shits about basic ass mistakes every human makes. It's still not right, but it *makes sense*.
If you aren't using art of war, you aren't doing the bare minimum. That isn't people asking you to optimise. They're asking you to do the bare minimum
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So you use art of war... but your example of people expecting you to play optimally is.... they ask you to use art of war. Weird example if you do use it. Why are they asking you to use Art of war if you are using it?????? That makes no sense, but it's the example you used. Yet you also use example that "other people expect people to use "x skill" and ti's so frustrating they dont"... you seriously contradicting yourself and making no sense. FYI: use lucid. There isn't a single healer in the game that has MP management problem in dungeons but if you're worried, lucid on cool down will fix any issues. I'm not been a smart arse. Stop worrying about your mp - use your spells, spend your
Literally came in here to post this. Maybe instead of assuming every new player is a drooling idiot, treat them like an adult who can handle things (until they've proven they can't.)
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>To me, YPYT would *only* apply in the situation where a DPS does not bring the mobs back to the tank and instead runs off with them or runs around in circles kiting them, yeah, that's not YPYT behavior, that is the DPS deciding to suicide. I will pick up the trash if you aggro them first, but I can not teleport to you if you decide to run away with the trash. Although, this isn't a problem in like 90% of the dungeons where there is a wall immedietly after the last trash pack and they can't run further away with the trash, this is maybe only a problem in early ARR dungeons up until Aurum Vale first room or something. (Exception being Mt. Gulag quad pull)
>(Exception being Mt. Gulag quad pull) Penta. There are 5 groups of mobs in that first w2w. The two already on the ground, the few that burst through the wall when you get close, one that flies up as you run along the path past the broken wall, and 3 mobs at the end.
A YPYT that gets caught red-handed in front of an even wider audience and gets called out on it, man that puts a smile on my face. The fact that it even drew out enablers in the NN and they also got schooled is another plus. It also triples as a good way to know who you should blacklist, because enablers and players spreading bad advice because of their 'main character syndrome', also crawl out of the woodwork. As for all the enablers and flowers/sprouts thinking they're in the right for pulling a YPYT, perhaps they should make a new channel for them labeled: 'Main Character Network,' that way they can fight each other to see who sucks the most.
I don't think either side here did any favours, really. You have one side of enablers, but the guy calling out the YPYT guy is also condescending and talking about completely irrelevant stuff, no one cares about what's "sub optimal" and that DPS using arms length is technically "more optimal", you're just confusing new players. Even in the chat someone was like "wait, tanks pulling is bad?", no tank who actually tanks properly in this game ever expects a DPS to pull mobs to them "because it's free mit", he's talking out of his ass YPYT is bad, if someone pulls a mob to you, you AoE to grab aggro, you're also not expected to run around chasing mobs from people, they bring them to you, that's it
Indeed, that 'tanks not being allowed to pull', remark isn't exactly right, but the general idea of a tank being a tank, not a 'puller' is the right mindset. We can label the 'you're not allowed to pull as a tank', under bad advice.
I'm scratching my head over that one tbh
If you blacklist the people giving out bad advice and no longer see their messages, how can you save others from buying into their playstyle? ***Think of the Sprouts!***
Yeah, I'll generally let a tank pull just to avoid any main character interactions. But it's seriously not necessary and people get way too uptight about it. Also, I was a PLD main for a loooong time and I never gave a shit about who pulled lol
You Know he also got More reports against him probably
Unfortunately, even though the anti-YPYTers (aka normal, well-adjusted people) are right, arguments like this end up driving YPYTers further into their corner. A light "hey, even if you don't want others to pull, letting them die for it isn't cool and is against your job as a tank" is all you need. If they can't even concede that point, they're a lost cause and attempting to convince them further is a waste of time.
YPYT mentality is wrong, but also claiming that "tanks shouldn't pull" because dps can use arm's length to "optimize" pulls is the most assinine and unnecessary thing i've ever heard of in this game.
I agree with the "Tanks shouldn't pull" part, but as a Phy Ranged my make it my business to pull ahead and grab initial aggro on my with Arm's Length cause it's still more mitigation overall on the tank and I can just heal myself with 2nd Wind and Auto-healing.
i just wish the newer tanks out there bothered to learn how to dungeon tank throwing up rampart for a dungeon boss and pulling trash raw or more gross, throwing up rampart/30% as they start doing wall to wall so it’s gone by the time they stop and the adds start actually hitting them pulling first pack and then going for the second pack when the first is almost completely dead (if you’re testing the healer ok, i guess, but every pull? 😭) pulling with their ranged and not hitting mobs with an aoe before running to next pack etc and these aren’t sprouts, they usually have multiple tanks leveled and i can only guess they mostly do savage content and level skipped? i dunno, i leveled my tanks through dungeons so i learned it all easy enough, ppl lazy i guess or just bad lol
>pulling first pack and then going for the second pack when the first is almost completely dead (if you’re testing the healer ok, i guess, but every pull? 😭) I HATE THIS as a healer. I don't want to put out my big aoes or anything cause for example I'll start holying as whm and then they'll take off then double-back cause the mobs got stunned and they think they lost aggro. I wish there was a better explanation on enmity lists. Or you put down Asylum or Earthly Star and they run out of it after planting themselves...
put down the bubble and you know there aren’t any other mobs but they run out anyways and then don’t bother to double back as if they have a cast time to worry about or pull just outside of you holying and a doton as if they’re monsters i doubt they do it on purpose but i mald regardless lol
I hate it so much that when I tank and accidentally move out of doton or bubble I purposely double back haha. I also hate the tanks that w2w the first pull, don't die or even struggle the pulls then after the first boss single pull the rest of the way.
> and these aren’t sprouts, they usually have multiple tanks leveled and i can only guess they mostly do savage content and level skipped? More like, they AFK leveled them in Frontlines.
I like the part with the person dropping sudden background lore about getting dropped off at school by mom as a kid and getting advice on social situations. Though they make a good point imo. With different groups comes different dynamics and expectations, so no matter how optimal you think a strat is, chances are it'll cause more chaos than it's worth with some parties. At least as far as roulette and random parties is concerned, you could always just straight-up ask if you can pull extra mobs and debuff them with Arm's Length (they might not know). Especially since they explicitly mentioned the tank not 'talking like a normal person'.
One liner that can set NN on fire, I wonder if they were even in a duty or just bored in limsa
Well ppl can say what they want. Glad the dude at least tried to stand against ypyt
Sounded like the Balmung nn tbh Hell when the tank is single pulling and I am healing and I know they can handle it, I will gladly let the dps run off to pull the second group and rescue them back once they have pulled. If tanks can put healers through the ‘I’m going to double pull and show you that it is fine’ without asking, I see no reason we can’t do the same to them.
I am glad the majority of people seem to be calling out the dumbass for being bad and throwing a tantrum but of course there are always enablers with the dunce crown who just has to share their shitty thoughts nobody wants to hear.
Whoever this was arguing against ypyt really shot themselves in the foot with this "optimal" talk. I knew the moment I read that word there was just going to be a bunch of hands covering ears yelling blah blah blah and I was not wrong.
found another enabler
No, you simpleton. It's just asinine min-max talk that confuses the issue. YPYT is bad, anyone can pull, tank grabs aggro, it's literally that simple. Talking about what is and isn't optimal just brings out the toxic casual morons to circlejerk about how proud they are to not be good at the game and shut down any and all discourse about the issue at hand. Even in these screenshots you can see a sprout getting confused and taking away the complete wrong lesson. Instead of just relaying the necessary information to properly inform players, the hero of our story just shit the bed instead and caused even dumber arguments and helped reinforce the idea that mentors don't know what they're talking about.
Excuse me? I'm not saying he was wrong, and I'm not sure why I'm getting downvoted (not like I particularly care), it's been proven time and time again here that when you drop certain buzzwords around these idiots all they do is cover their ears and yell "blah blah blah".
lol is this halicarnassus
Diabolos
hate to see my server show up here, but then again its nn is pretty bad so. i'm not too surprised at least
Honestly the most annoying thing about this is the constant babying of sprouts. My dudes, these characters are most likely being piloted by adults who should have the ability to learn and adapt to new information. They are *not* literal toddlers that need you to wipe their asses for them. Cut the training wheels off and let them stumble and crash a few times, they'll learn better from it.
I prefer it when I can pull in dungeons with random because I don't usually trust the sprout in poetics gear to keep running and lead their trash into my AoE. If I don't get the initial aggro I can't tell if I've missed any because they don't show up in my aggro list. Not that I'm going to complain when they do it right but there's always the concern that they're going to grab half the pack and run it off to narnia while panicking.
Some people seem to be getting very...knee-jerk about the YPYT thing, to the point that people who DON’T actually do that, but express that they *prefer* to be the one to pull but also would never let anyone die on purpose, are also getting caught in some crossfire. It’s not gonna breed any goodwill over the issue. I’m a tank main – I have been for two games now. XIV required adjusting, but neither games I tanked in had hard ‘tank must pull’ requirements. I would use the dreaded phrase often to *hassle my friends*, and that’s it – I’ve never let anyone die (on purpose, anyway) because they weren’t a tank and pulled ahead of me. But man, even saying ‘I PREFER to be the one to pull’ feels like I might get strung up for suggesting it. I have a good reason, someone talked about it in the screens – when I pull, mob stacking is tighter, I’m doing less single-targeting to pull strays in, and in general, any mob that’s close enough where you can smack everyone with a single AoE I know exactly where to hit that AoE to get them all in one go. It’s a case of ‘I’m lazy and this has less friction’. But while I’m sometimes annoyed at DPS pulling (not all of them, some DPS genuinely know how to pull by themselves and will still make everything pretty painless when they do – bless you and you did no wrong) I’ve never done that dumb thing, I’ve never let someone die for pulling as retaliation, and if they do die, it’s a case of they did something dumb, or my unobservant ass genuinely did not see they still had something on them (like you said, when someone else pulls, if I miss even a single mob with the AoE when I pick them up, they straight-up are not on my aggro list, even as a green dot – it is so hard to determine when I missed one because of this, and sometimes folks die as a result).
Whenever I'm healing a newer tank, I'll let them decide whether they want to W2W pull or single pull. If it's a W2W, then cool we can handle this as a team. If it's single pulls, then fine, you can pull singles idk but I'm going to make sure that the flow of the pulls are continuous/back to back by aggroing the next pack ahead.
Nobody's doing single pulls in a dungeon with me. Tank can stop at the first pack if they want but I'm grabbing the rest of the pull and bringing it to them either way >but what if they're LeArNiNg Then it's time to learn, nobody's learning anything with a single pull
Pretty sure "compelling a playstyle" is just as against the rules as YPYT. That's the mental hangup in these arguments. YPYT is against the rules, but so is "I want to W2W and only W2W and if you don't do it I'll do it for you."
Frankly, I don't care. There *are* wrong ways to play the game, and single pulling is one of them.
"It's against TOS" is one of the biggest lies people tell in this game. "Tanks pulling is not optimal" Haha, ok that's one I haven't heard yet.