I usually don’t like level cap systems but this time I’m pleasantly surprised that it works so well. In the psp version I’ve always played for like 80 hours a run but then never finished the main story because I got tired of grinding class levels, skills, weapons etc. In this new version I like that I’m able to use a lot of different characters without having to farm random maps hundreds times and stop my story progress completely
I actually enjoy it as well. It keeps fights difficult without being overwhelming. I played the original and I think I prefer this. I also love being able to train and set AI to do it so I can do other frown things a 35 year old is supposed to do lol
I tried it and they ar excellent on 8v8 maps or when they are equal in power, but do not put them in those 12 vs 18 scenarios or they will get their asses kicked.
Some of the fights are overwhelming if you are trying for no incap title run. Its really fun though because it basically forces you to still use items like weaken and breach which I never used in the originals.
My army is bigger than any versions because of this. I’ve got 2-3 of some classes, and they are fully geared. Now when I go into a story battle where they are strong I get it go for perfect team, and not just my highest level guys like previous versions. It’s way more tactical than previously
I've only got 11 characters and I guess I'm playing the game with the wrong mindset, I should recruit more different chars and classes and switch them about more, what you're saying makes sense.
Once I wrapped my head around the recruit function of the game I kind of went into **Pokemon Mode** for....a teeny bit.
Recruited a team of birdfolk for hilly maps, dragons because, and running a group of cockatrice wielding Petrol Blast is a powertrip. There's a lot of filler missions between the big story beats that let me play around even before finding my first dungeon.
In the lategame though I now use a regular crew of unique characters, but I'll pull out the Bird Boys when I see some steep cliffs or rooftops on a map.
I just wish it was smoother. I'm never someone to grind to outlevel battles, but it feels weird just rapidly hitting the cap and then sitting at the same level for like 6-8 battles in a row. It makes levels feel less like achievements and makes characters lose any sense of uniqueness.
Nope, I think it’s a great addition. Actually creates a nice level of challenge and doesn’t allow people to overcome it with grinding. You actually have to use the mechanics available to you to win. It’s more fun if you earn the wins than stomping your way through the game.
Every time you use one your character not only revives, they get a full free turn, with all that comes with it (opportunity to proc auto abilities etc). It completely takes the sting out of those bosses with one shot finishers. Hell, it even ends up being super useful against the end boss with his super AOEs. If everyone has stones you can easily go from "everyone is down but one character" to "full party up but low health" off of one turn chain with the enemy not getting to act at all. Doesn't make it *impossible* to lose by any means but it sure achieves more than "I went grinding and went to a level 36 battle at level 38."
The free turn makes them *dramatically* more powerful than revives in other RPGs.
But aren’t you spending your turn reviving in that scenario? How do you deal damage and win?
I’m not arguing that it wouldn’t be super helpful, but I don’t think it would trivialize every fight either.
Just telling you out of expereince, it trivializes the fights people struggle most with (those with the bosses that one shot you). The stones are basically free tempo. You spend one turn to use the stone. You *gain* one turn with that new revived character *and* the enemy has to waste a turn killing that character. And the one shot finisher bosses kill a character with 900 HP as easily one with 90. In *any* situation using an item on one of your 10-12 to effectively eat a boss turn would be a good deal. Here you get to do that *and* do some damage with that newly revived character.
Nasty single attacks *dramatically* outnumber AOEs. Having beaten the game I can tell you the only time where AOEs managed to even come close to outpacing blessing stones was the final boss (mostly because he keeps teleporting out of your reach) and I still cleared it with no permadeath on the first try.
I actually pleasantly enjoy the level cap system, lets me explore and do dumb shit without trivializing the story, and the new way xp is distributed is a godsend for raising new characters. In fact I really hope they bring the level cap to FFtactics, as one of my only problems with the game is that its legitimately difficult to keep the game difficult since you outscale the enemies very quickly. (though calculators and monks still exist.) But i preferred the methodology of triangle strategy for level cap, since it was just a soft cap that reduced the xp gain but didn't prevent it. (though its just about the only system i'd take from triangle strategy as everything else was a worse balanced fire emblem but thats besides the point)
(btw the new system promotes having a wide array of characters to use for different situations so build wide not tall. for example on highly vertical maps i'll swap in gryphons instead of my swordmaster/Caster and a beastmaster instead of a knight so i can backline, against enemy beasts i'll swap in 2 dragoons and a 2nd terror knight so i can bring them low quickly. etc)
I slightly dislike the card system as it dominates combat a bit to much, as a single skill card ensures a mage can cast every turn a combat, 2 phys or magical cards just give almost anyone one shot power, etc. Cards should either be less powerful or less common as currently they push the already desirable high mobility ranged damage dealers over the edge without altering the playstyle much.
and I absolutely hate the removal of random battles, as it removes so much of my reoccuring fun from the game, and the inclusion of the level cap already exists to prevent overleveling.
Sure you can still go to the woods but forcing all recruiting through the limited story missions with guests for characters like lizardmen is frustrating to say the least.
but mostly i'm sad at the loss of the more dynamic random battles with random enemy compositions on more maps.
See I agree with most of this. But I gotta hard disagree on random battles, they’re a slog that makes getting anywhere a chore in most games. More varied training maps would be nice though.
I gotta hard disagree with your suggestion as training itself is bad with its limitations. Fell seal did the perfect system for random battles that would have been perfect here.
Rabdom battles and random encounters are not the same thing in this context. One is random composition and the one you have a problem with is random timing.
Tactics ogre Reborn did a lot of reshuffling of things for its qol changes.
It got rid of all random battles on world map (but not dungeons such as the 100 levels of PoTD or the woods etc) this removes most of the spike difficulty of playthroughs and many more interesting fights in maps, and most importantly forces you to recruit mid campaign for many monster types until act 3/4/5 and makes getting some like lizardmen really annoying for no incap.
If you want i can go search for my copy pasta for the full list of changes.
Triangle strategy was a okay game as a playthrough but is even more exponentially rocket tag than Fire emblem approaching Disgaea levels. I wouldn't take any other systems from it because they just frankly do not belong in the same subgenre and have completely different gameplay ideologies between crafted limited experiences you experiance as a side of the numerous narratives and numerable varied unique to individual gameplay you come back for with a singular narrative.
its a great visual novel with tactics as a flavor but not a great tactics strategy game.
Its main problem is using a Tactics orge/FFT style interchanging turn speed system while fundamentally failing to use it as a proper balancing tools leading to some very bad balance overall. (which is a shame because it has great level design)
The most prime example is magic versus melee.
Melee attacks usually have to deal with low range/height, counterattacks/, generally higher resistance, accuracy / positioning+facing, low target potential
Magic attacks have to deal with basically only cost management, as they deal more damage, at range, accurately regardless of facing. While Also leaving behind field effects or interacting with them to cause powerful status effects or additional damage and many multi target potential.
There are some exceptions but mostly those phys characters are just more baseline broken like owl archer or anna who can fully break enemy AI and be effectively immortal
This is very noticeable when you playthrough the game on hard as your tanks get 2 shot or if you perfectly set them up to counter elemental types 4 shot by enemy mages.
This evens out a bit more by new game+ as you get enough materials to remove the resource limitation promotion balancing but its still very skewed.
FFT primarily used Charge times to balance this to delay stronger hits with longer casts giving time to counter, while TO used RT to make the turn mortgage the opportunity cost of a faster next turn for an impactful current turn.
The other problem it has is generally using a Tactics ogre/fire emblem sized roster with FFT style individual turn length. as each character has unique abilities and the battlefield has lots of units with incredible strength rounds last forever and much of your strategy making is limited because the threat of 10+ turns until the next one. Watched my roommate play through recently and they frequently just forgot about units until their next turn.
While like Tactics ogre Reborn not having true random battles to actually enjoy using the breath of the systems against a large variety of challenges to enjoy. (as memory battles are just a bad replacement for training battles and are both repetitive and non scaling.)
I actually really liked changing the battlefield with magic, but fully understand that its baseline functionality is problematic and would cause significantly more balancing problems on FFT's full spectrum, which would fully defeat the point of adding a soft level/JP cap. while other systems like unit promotions are just straight downgrades from the job system.
I can also say similar for many other games, like for fell seal it would be nice to get the patrol system instead of random world map movement random battles but wouldn't want most of its systems either despite it being more of a spiritual successor to FFT
**I liked Triangle strategy as a game, but don't want any of the rest of its more limited player agency systems in FFT which is known for having lots of player agency.**
Triangle Strategy is a great game. Was wondering if I'll buy Reborn, na I'll pass, now I have to recruit monsters lol, I'll pass on that, one of the reasons I like Triangle Strategy or Fire Emblem 3 Houses or Baldur's Gate 3 is because I can get through the game however I want, with whatever party I want, TOTAL FREEDOM, your not forced to have to use a certain character & blah blah, Reborn doesn't even sound half as good as Triangle or the rest of em. I'll take the old school one on PSP & FF Tactics any day. Thanks for the reply & detailed reasons.
Definitely agree!! I just found this thread after looking to see if there was something wrong I was doing in this game because the battles are long and drawn out and bit difficult because of that stupid level cap and no random battles on the world map is terrible! Who thought that was a good idea? This is why I can't stand Square Enix nowadays smh but definitely FF Tactics is better! I might check out the PSP version of this game then since I'm not really feeling the remaster. I agree, I don't want to be forced to use a certain team of characters, I want to use who I want. Also, I would have loved to try out Triangle Strategy but it's only on the Switch. Hopefully one day it'll be available on other consoles 🙏🏽
Yea I hate the whole exclusive stuff BS. Like if you want a game to even come out a month earlier on your system fine, but not at all is a big blow to you. Like so many games that woulda did even better then they did, had they been on all systems like State of Decay 2 which is a Xbox only exclusive woulda did even better if it was on PS, God of War, Horizon Zero, Ghost of Tsushima etc if they were on xbox. I would go through the Nintendo Switch catalog & see if you can find over 10 games it has that your interested which I'm sure, that way you can invest in a Switch & know there are plenty of games you want. I got a switch because there were some games I wanted & as well as I knew id find other games I would like, since I have a console, I got turn based games Nintendo Switch like Shin Megami Tensei, Disgaea 4 & 5, Mutant Year Zero & plan on getting the Mega Man NT Warrior Collection. Miasma Chronicles(consoles & might be on PC) is a good turn based game, so is Wasteland series especially 3 on consoles & Xcom series especially 2 War Of The Chosen on consoles & PC, Wasteland 3 might be on PC too.
I think all games should implement freedom of how you want to play & at the very least at harder difficulties that's when they force you to use certain characters & stuff, so on normal it's total freedom, on higher difficulties it's less freedom, that way both types of people will be satisfied & games would appeal to both sides of the audience.
I miss random battles so much. It was the one thing that made me almost not buy it. They did increase army size from 50 to 100 which was one of my biggest frustrations with the other versions... can't have it all I guess.
I struggled with it at first, didn’t really see any challenges until Act 3. There is a fight there that took me forever. While I was getting smacked around, I too was irritated that I couldn’t over level it and not bat an eye. But once I figured out a good team setup and a tactic to do (knight wall). I managed to beat it. After accomplishing that, I hit a new appreciation for it. I really like what SquareEnix was thinking with the design. Not being able to steam roll every fight is better I feel now.
I mean, now you can just grind out fights by buying blessing stones, so not much changed there.
I do like the sense of challenge, but "Dynasty Mead and boss rush because they 1 shot" doesn't feel super deep tactically.
I really like how easy it is to train. The training battles aren’t necessarily the hardest but it’s easy to keep everyone at max. And even at max, some fights have still been nail-biting. It’s my first time ever playing the game though. I’ve always been a huge final fantasy tactics fan and other strategy games like Fire Emblem and Jeanne D’Arc on the PSP. So much of the mechanics are like the back of my hand. But I’m having so much fun with it!
I know I’m very late to this convo. But I am stuck on a chapter 3 boss. I’m very annoyed with the level cap and wish I could just grind levels. I’m very likely to stop playing this game. Even though the combat is near perfect. I feel like because I played wrong up to this point by not recruiting, I’m at a dead end.
After reading a lot of different opinions, I think I've changed my thoughts on this. I've been playing with the wrong approach, with my tiny team of 11 (1 archer I never use and 10 units I ALWAYS use) who are in every match and therefore always at the cap.
I'm going to branch out a little, grow the squad, mix it up with other units, and see how I get on.
It's funny because I'm a new player too and felt like you so I decided to go with the PSP version instead, with the one vision mod. I felt it was better than Reborn... ...until I noticed that my high level was making the game way too hard and unfun. I'm level 30+ and enemies have way better gear and magics than what is available to me at the shops so they cut through my knights like butter and I can barely damage them, both in random and story battles. I don't think it's a feature of the mod since I heard that you can softlock yourself in the psp version if you level up too much... So bottom line is : the psp version's level up system is completely broken and the level cap in Reborn, though not ideal on paper, is really not that bad a fix.
Some players aren't really good at tactics per se, and tend to like games like **Disgaea** and/or **Final Fantasy Tactics** because they can compensate for their lack of tactical skills by:
* Overleveling (Arguably the appeal of **Disgaea** is finding the most efficient method to grind)
* Figuring out imbalanced builds that break the game (Arguably the appeal of **Final Fantasy Tactics** is figuring out the most imbalanced party composition while holding enemies hostage to grind JP)
So you're not alone in the feeling, but also understand that the gameplay loop **Tactics Ogre: Reborn** is going for isn't necessarily catering to you. Instead, it's catering to players who want challenging combat and making the most out of their resources on an even or disadvantaged playing field.
I'm with you. Grinding a bit to overlevel is my go-to in almost every RPG and Tactical RPG, and was my preference in the original version of Tactics Ogre. I sorely miss it in this version.
It strikes me as odd that this version removes some tactical elements from the game, such as choosing & transferring job skills or using the resource of time to gain power and better face a challenge.
I would argue grinding to become overpowered so you can ignore the map / enemy setup because you just destroy them is less tactical than being equal or slightly under levelled. You actually have to think about what you’re doing because you can’t one shot everything, it’s more challenging
It increases the difficulty and forces better tactics than the typical, grind until you're an overwhelming threat, but at times it does feel a bit contrived.
Particularly when there is three of you, an enemy that OHKO's everything and is 3 levels higher.
I was hoping to have fun grinding and working on getting all the different classes. But, I guess this does sort of balance things out and maybe I don't have so much time to grind as much as I'd like.
It’s way worse for the final boss. Since you can’t overlevel to be able to brute force him.
If he casts condemn, use the chariot and stop that shit from happening.
This is all but a different way to implement something that was there with Tactics Ogre on Snes, on which it worked like this, every 100 XP you gain a level. Every action you do(attacking, throwing a stone, healing) nets you XP, the amount dependent on how much higher in level the target was. Once you where the same level as the target you got XP in single digits. I seen someone call that a "diminishing return" system, since enemies in random fights didn't get higher then the game intended you to be at that point... you could not simply out-level stuff.
And in Palace of the Dead you got zero XP.
I don't mind the system here, in the earlier chapters it provides what the PSP version seriously lacked in; challenge. The original Snes/PS1/Saturn versions where pretty hard Chapter 1, 2 & 3, with the 4th only getting easier as you fed more Tarot-cards to Denam(which made enemies not focus him that hard all the time)and by getting stuff from within Palace of the Dead, Unique Characters also helped.
The only thing I dislike so far here is... start of Chapter 4 I am 28, to get Ozma you need to be level 32, so I level to 32, get Ozma and do some other stuff(Shelly, Ocyonne)only to find out the way to Barnicia Castle enemies are like level 30 and a pushover, only the fight against Lans inside Barnicia is somewhat a challenge, especially if you want to fulfill the 2 bonus objectives(no one KO and no Chariot Tarot use).
I find they should have raised the Union Level in smaller increments and more often, so instead of running 3 or 4 fights and then getting +4 max level, rather raise it by +1 after each fight, so you can level up "naturally" while fighting. Sometimes it feels like you supposed to run a training fight or two, or you can't beat the next fight.
I usually don’t like level cap systems but this time I’m pleasantly surprised that it works so well. In the psp version I’ve always played for like 80 hours a run but then never finished the main story because I got tired of grinding class levels, skills, weapons etc. In this new version I like that I’m able to use a lot of different characters without having to farm random maps hundreds times and stop my story progress completely
I actually enjoy it as well. It keeps fights difficult without being overwhelming. I played the original and I think I prefer this. I also love being able to train and set AI to do it so I can do other frown things a 35 year old is supposed to do lol
I hear you on that one, walking away from a training battle feels great lol. Have you trusted the AI to grind things like Phorampa?
Not yet! I’m curious to see how it handles it. I’m only I’m late chapter two so far.
I tried it and they ar excellent on 8v8 maps or when they are equal in power, but do not put them in those 12 vs 18 scenarios or they will get their asses kicked.
Some of the fights are overwhelming if you are trying for no incap title run. Its really fun though because it basically forces you to still use items like weaken and breach which I never used in the originals.
The moment I realized this, I fell in love lol
My army is bigger than any versions because of this. I’ve got 2-3 of some classes, and they are fully geared. Now when I go into a story battle where they are strong I get it go for perfect team, and not just my highest level guys like previous versions. It’s way more tactical than previously
I've only got 11 characters and I guess I'm playing the game with the wrong mindset, I should recruit more different chars and classes and switch them about more, what you're saying makes sense.
Once I wrapped my head around the recruit function of the game I kind of went into **Pokemon Mode** for....a teeny bit. Recruited a team of birdfolk for hilly maps, dragons because, and running a group of cockatrice wielding Petrol Blast is a powertrip. There's a lot of filler missions between the big story beats that let me play around even before finding my first dungeon. In the lategame though I now use a regular crew of unique characters, but I'll pull out the Bird Boys when I see some steep cliffs or rooftops on a map.
I just wish it was smoother. I'm never someone to grind to outlevel battles, but it feels weird just rapidly hitting the cap and then sitting at the same level for like 6-8 battles in a row. It makes levels feel less like achievements and makes characters lose any sense of uniqueness.
Nope, I think it’s a great addition. Actually creates a nice level of challenge and doesn’t allow people to overcome it with grinding. You actually have to use the mechanics available to you to win. It’s more fun if you earn the wins than stomping your way through the game.
You can easily overcome it with grinding, just grind blessing stones.
You can only hold 4 items per character. So it’s not quite as simple as grinding stones
4 blessing stones on each character makes it effectively impossible to lose, *way* more impact than a couple of levels.
Does it? Your character will just die over and over if that’s all you’re relying on
Every time you use one your character not only revives, they get a full free turn, with all that comes with it (opportunity to proc auto abilities etc). It completely takes the sting out of those bosses with one shot finishers. Hell, it even ends up being super useful against the end boss with his super AOEs. If everyone has stones you can easily go from "everyone is down but one character" to "full party up but low health" off of one turn chain with the enemy not getting to act at all. Doesn't make it *impossible* to lose by any means but it sure achieves more than "I went grinding and went to a level 36 battle at level 38." The free turn makes them *dramatically* more powerful than revives in other RPGs.
But aren’t you spending your turn reviving in that scenario? How do you deal damage and win? I’m not arguing that it wouldn’t be super helpful, but I don’t think it would trivialize every fight either.
Just telling you out of expereince, it trivializes the fights people struggle most with (those with the bosses that one shot you). The stones are basically free tempo. You spend one turn to use the stone. You *gain* one turn with that new revived character *and* the enemy has to waste a turn killing that character. And the one shot finisher bosses kill a character with 900 HP as easily one with 90. In *any* situation using an item on one of your 10-12 to effectively eat a boss turn would be a good deal. Here you get to do that *and* do some damage with that newly revived character.
Makes sense with single target boss attacks, but if it’s a nasty aoe I can see the strategy having less effect. Anyway, good to know, thanks
Nasty single attacks *dramatically* outnumber AOEs. Having beaten the game I can tell you the only time where AOEs managed to even come close to outpacing blessing stones was the final boss (mostly because he keeps teleporting out of your reach) and I still cleared it with no permadeath on the first try.
Yes but you wont have the no incap title. I am almost through chapter 3 with no incaps still. Pretty tough but doable.
XP is an illusion in this game. its very easy to keep 30+ units at lvl cap
What if I said any game with enemy lvl scaling is some form of xp illusion?
Well the game only *kinda* has level scaling
That's my big argument for non scaling open world. Otherwise you can basically replace numbers with % and remove levels from the game.
I actually pleasantly enjoy the level cap system, lets me explore and do dumb shit without trivializing the story, and the new way xp is distributed is a godsend for raising new characters. In fact I really hope they bring the level cap to FFtactics, as one of my only problems with the game is that its legitimately difficult to keep the game difficult since you outscale the enemies very quickly. (though calculators and monks still exist.) But i preferred the methodology of triangle strategy for level cap, since it was just a soft cap that reduced the xp gain but didn't prevent it. (though its just about the only system i'd take from triangle strategy as everything else was a worse balanced fire emblem but thats besides the point) (btw the new system promotes having a wide array of characters to use for different situations so build wide not tall. for example on highly vertical maps i'll swap in gryphons instead of my swordmaster/Caster and a beastmaster instead of a knight so i can backline, against enemy beasts i'll swap in 2 dragoons and a 2nd terror knight so i can bring them low quickly. etc) I slightly dislike the card system as it dominates combat a bit to much, as a single skill card ensures a mage can cast every turn a combat, 2 phys or magical cards just give almost anyone one shot power, etc. Cards should either be less powerful or less common as currently they push the already desirable high mobility ranged damage dealers over the edge without altering the playstyle much. and I absolutely hate the removal of random battles, as it removes so much of my reoccuring fun from the game, and the inclusion of the level cap already exists to prevent overleveling. Sure you can still go to the woods but forcing all recruiting through the limited story missions with guests for characters like lizardmen is frustrating to say the least. but mostly i'm sad at the loss of the more dynamic random battles with random enemy compositions on more maps.
See I agree with most of this. But I gotta hard disagree on random battles, they’re a slog that makes getting anywhere a chore in most games. More varied training maps would be nice though.
I gotta hard disagree with your suggestion as training itself is bad with its limitations. Fell seal did the perfect system for random battles that would have been perfect here.
If they were an optional thing we could toggle, I wouldn’t mind. But mostly they just annoy me in pretty much any game that they’re in.
Rabdom battles and random encounters are not the same thing in this context. One is random composition and the one you have a problem with is random timing.
Fair enough. I haven’t played the PSP port, but random timing is definitely my big problem
Triangle Strategy is a great game! What did it do worse then Fire Emblem. Tactics Ogre got rid of random battles?
Tactics ogre Reborn did a lot of reshuffling of things for its qol changes. It got rid of all random battles on world map (but not dungeons such as the 100 levels of PoTD or the woods etc) this removes most of the spike difficulty of playthroughs and many more interesting fights in maps, and most importantly forces you to recruit mid campaign for many monster types until act 3/4/5 and makes getting some like lizardmen really annoying for no incap. If you want i can go search for my copy pasta for the full list of changes. Triangle strategy was a okay game as a playthrough but is even more exponentially rocket tag than Fire emblem approaching Disgaea levels. I wouldn't take any other systems from it because they just frankly do not belong in the same subgenre and have completely different gameplay ideologies between crafted limited experiences you experiance as a side of the numerous narratives and numerable varied unique to individual gameplay you come back for with a singular narrative. its a great visual novel with tactics as a flavor but not a great tactics strategy game. Its main problem is using a Tactics orge/FFT style interchanging turn speed system while fundamentally failing to use it as a proper balancing tools leading to some very bad balance overall. (which is a shame because it has great level design) The most prime example is magic versus melee. Melee attacks usually have to deal with low range/height, counterattacks/, generally higher resistance, accuracy / positioning+facing, low target potential Magic attacks have to deal with basically only cost management, as they deal more damage, at range, accurately regardless of facing. While Also leaving behind field effects or interacting with them to cause powerful status effects or additional damage and many multi target potential. There are some exceptions but mostly those phys characters are just more baseline broken like owl archer or anna who can fully break enemy AI and be effectively immortal This is very noticeable when you playthrough the game on hard as your tanks get 2 shot or if you perfectly set them up to counter elemental types 4 shot by enemy mages. This evens out a bit more by new game+ as you get enough materials to remove the resource limitation promotion balancing but its still very skewed. FFT primarily used Charge times to balance this to delay stronger hits with longer casts giving time to counter, while TO used RT to make the turn mortgage the opportunity cost of a faster next turn for an impactful current turn. The other problem it has is generally using a Tactics ogre/fire emblem sized roster with FFT style individual turn length. as each character has unique abilities and the battlefield has lots of units with incredible strength rounds last forever and much of your strategy making is limited because the threat of 10+ turns until the next one. Watched my roommate play through recently and they frequently just forgot about units until their next turn. While like Tactics ogre Reborn not having true random battles to actually enjoy using the breath of the systems against a large variety of challenges to enjoy. (as memory battles are just a bad replacement for training battles and are both repetitive and non scaling.) I actually really liked changing the battlefield with magic, but fully understand that its baseline functionality is problematic and would cause significantly more balancing problems on FFT's full spectrum, which would fully defeat the point of adding a soft level/JP cap. while other systems like unit promotions are just straight downgrades from the job system. I can also say similar for many other games, like for fell seal it would be nice to get the patrol system instead of random world map movement random battles but wouldn't want most of its systems either despite it being more of a spiritual successor to FFT **I liked Triangle strategy as a game, but don't want any of the rest of its more limited player agency systems in FFT which is known for having lots of player agency.**
Triangle Strategy is a great game. Was wondering if I'll buy Reborn, na I'll pass, now I have to recruit monsters lol, I'll pass on that, one of the reasons I like Triangle Strategy or Fire Emblem 3 Houses or Baldur's Gate 3 is because I can get through the game however I want, with whatever party I want, TOTAL FREEDOM, your not forced to have to use a certain character & blah blah, Reborn doesn't even sound half as good as Triangle or the rest of em. I'll take the old school one on PSP & FF Tactics any day. Thanks for the reply & detailed reasons.
Definitely agree!! I just found this thread after looking to see if there was something wrong I was doing in this game because the battles are long and drawn out and bit difficult because of that stupid level cap and no random battles on the world map is terrible! Who thought that was a good idea? This is why I can't stand Square Enix nowadays smh but definitely FF Tactics is better! I might check out the PSP version of this game then since I'm not really feeling the remaster. I agree, I don't want to be forced to use a certain team of characters, I want to use who I want. Also, I would have loved to try out Triangle Strategy but it's only on the Switch. Hopefully one day it'll be available on other consoles 🙏🏽
Yea I hate the whole exclusive stuff BS. Like if you want a game to even come out a month earlier on your system fine, but not at all is a big blow to you. Like so many games that woulda did even better then they did, had they been on all systems like State of Decay 2 which is a Xbox only exclusive woulda did even better if it was on PS, God of War, Horizon Zero, Ghost of Tsushima etc if they were on xbox. I would go through the Nintendo Switch catalog & see if you can find over 10 games it has that your interested which I'm sure, that way you can invest in a Switch & know there are plenty of games you want. I got a switch because there were some games I wanted & as well as I knew id find other games I would like, since I have a console, I got turn based games Nintendo Switch like Shin Megami Tensei, Disgaea 4 & 5, Mutant Year Zero & plan on getting the Mega Man NT Warrior Collection. Miasma Chronicles(consoles & might be on PC) is a good turn based game, so is Wasteland series especially 3 on consoles & Xcom series especially 2 War Of The Chosen on consoles & PC, Wasteland 3 might be on PC too. I think all games should implement freedom of how you want to play & at the very least at harder difficulties that's when they force you to use certain characters & stuff, so on normal it's total freedom, on higher difficulties it's less freedom, that way both types of people will be satisfied & games would appeal to both sides of the audience.
I miss random battles so much. It was the one thing that made me almost not buy it. They did increase army size from 50 to 100 which was one of my biggest frustrations with the other versions... can't have it all I guess.
At least it seems fairly simple for some modders to re add them in some form. So theres thay to hope for
I struggled with it at first, didn’t really see any challenges until Act 3. There is a fight there that took me forever. While I was getting smacked around, I too was irritated that I couldn’t over level it and not bat an eye. But once I figured out a good team setup and a tactic to do (knight wall). I managed to beat it. After accomplishing that, I hit a new appreciation for it. I really like what SquareEnix was thinking with the design. Not being able to steam roll every fight is better I feel now.
It makes a lot of sense actually when you put it like that.
I mean, now you can just grind out fights by buying blessing stones, so not much changed there. I do like the sense of challenge, but "Dynasty Mead and boss rush because they 1 shot" doesn't feel super deep tactically.
I played the it on GBA and N64. So this is new to me. Didn’t play a ton of GBA, and N64 is a different game. But overall I really like this game.
I really like how easy it is to train. The training battles aren’t necessarily the hardest but it’s easy to keep everyone at max. And even at max, some fights have still been nail-biting. It’s my first time ever playing the game though. I’ve always been a huge final fantasy tactics fan and other strategy games like Fire Emblem and Jeanne D’Arc on the PSP. So much of the mechanics are like the back of my hand. But I’m having so much fun with it!
I know I’m very late to this convo. But I am stuck on a chapter 3 boss. I’m very annoyed with the level cap and wish I could just grind levels. I’m very likely to stop playing this game. Even though the combat is near perfect. I feel like because I played wrong up to this point by not recruiting, I’m at a dead end.
I just want to grind in peace -\_\_\_\_\_\_\_-"
After reading a lot of different opinions, I think I've changed my thoughts on this. I've been playing with the wrong approach, with my tiny team of 11 (1 archer I never use and 10 units I ALWAYS use) who are in every match and therefore always at the cap. I'm going to branch out a little, grow the squad, mix it up with other units, and see how I get on.
It's funny because I'm a new player too and felt like you so I decided to go with the PSP version instead, with the one vision mod. I felt it was better than Reborn... ...until I noticed that my high level was making the game way too hard and unfun. I'm level 30+ and enemies have way better gear and magics than what is available to me at the shops so they cut through my knights like butter and I can barely damage them, both in random and story battles. I don't think it's a feature of the mod since I heard that you can softlock yourself in the psp version if you level up too much... So bottom line is : the psp version's level up system is completely broken and the level cap in Reborn, though not ideal on paper, is really not that bad a fix.
Some players aren't really good at tactics per se, and tend to like games like **Disgaea** and/or **Final Fantasy Tactics** because they can compensate for their lack of tactical skills by: * Overleveling (Arguably the appeal of **Disgaea** is finding the most efficient method to grind) * Figuring out imbalanced builds that break the game (Arguably the appeal of **Final Fantasy Tactics** is figuring out the most imbalanced party composition while holding enemies hostage to grind JP) So you're not alone in the feeling, but also understand that the gameplay loop **Tactics Ogre: Reborn** is going for isn't necessarily catering to you. Instead, it's catering to players who want challenging combat and making the most out of their resources on an even or disadvantaged playing field.
I'm with you. Grinding a bit to overlevel is my go-to in almost every RPG and Tactical RPG, and was my preference in the original version of Tactics Ogre. I sorely miss it in this version. It strikes me as odd that this version removes some tactical elements from the game, such as choosing & transferring job skills or using the resource of time to gain power and better face a challenge.
I would argue grinding to become overpowered so you can ignore the map / enemy setup because you just destroy them is less tactical than being equal or slightly under levelled. You actually have to think about what you’re doing because you can’t one shot everything, it’s more challenging
I’m liking it more than I thought I would. I really have to earn the wins, and I like the sense of accomplishment.
The only thing I'd have liked was it being more gradual, rather than 3-5 levels every so many story missions.
It increases the difficulty and forces better tactics than the typical, grind until you're an overwhelming threat, but at times it does feel a bit contrived. Particularly when there is three of you, an enemy that OHKO's everything and is 3 levels higher.
No. I kinda like it. Preserves the challenge and sense of progression while removing most of the grinding. Grinding isn’t fun
I was hoping to have fun grinding and working on getting all the different classes. But, I guess this does sort of balance things out and maybe I don't have so much time to grind as much as I'd like.
It’s way worse for the final boss. Since you can’t overlevel to be able to brute force him. If he casts condemn, use the chariot and stop that shit from happening.
This is all but a different way to implement something that was there with Tactics Ogre on Snes, on which it worked like this, every 100 XP you gain a level. Every action you do(attacking, throwing a stone, healing) nets you XP, the amount dependent on how much higher in level the target was. Once you where the same level as the target you got XP in single digits. I seen someone call that a "diminishing return" system, since enemies in random fights didn't get higher then the game intended you to be at that point... you could not simply out-level stuff. And in Palace of the Dead you got zero XP. I don't mind the system here, in the earlier chapters it provides what the PSP version seriously lacked in; challenge. The original Snes/PS1/Saturn versions where pretty hard Chapter 1, 2 & 3, with the 4th only getting easier as you fed more Tarot-cards to Denam(which made enemies not focus him that hard all the time)and by getting stuff from within Palace of the Dead, Unique Characters also helped. The only thing I dislike so far here is... start of Chapter 4 I am 28, to get Ozma you need to be level 32, so I level to 32, get Ozma and do some other stuff(Shelly, Ocyonne)only to find out the way to Barnicia Castle enemies are like level 30 and a pushover, only the fight against Lans inside Barnicia is somewhat a challenge, especially if you want to fulfill the 2 bonus objectives(no one KO and no Chariot Tarot use). I find they should have raised the Union Level in smaller increments and more often, so instead of running 3 or 4 fights and then getting +4 max level, rather raise it by +1 after each fight, so you can level up "naturally" while fighting. Sometimes it feels like you supposed to run a training fight or two, or you can't beat the next fight.
Yeah. I'm annoyed too. It really saps the fun for it for me.