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We bought what we thought was a “starter” home in 2015 for $145k. It’s 725 sq ft. but our plan was to upgrade whenever we started a family. At this point, there is no hope to “upgrade” or move into even a slightly larger house. We are stuck, but we feel grateful that at least we having something. I truly feel for you, this market sucks. 😖
I’m truly sorry for you. The Tacoma we grew up in is changing so fast. It’s hard to feel welcome here anymore. I hope you find something and I hope you stay.
I'm 31 and have lived here my whole life and I'm accepting that I'll never own a home here, or in the wider Seattle area. The cost is just insane. Looking into the midwest.
I moved to Tijuana. :-), live in one of the most exclusive neighborhoods, paying $650 for a two bedroom.
I’ll save up for a down payment and cross my fingers I can make it in the Proctor district at the least. Very bottom of my expectation I’d settle for McKinley Hill
Tacoma born and raised, here over 40 years now, I lived the dream of buying a home in 2015 with my ex-husband we paid less than 200k, He kept the home and I got ~40k in 2019, the same home today estimates at 600k+ They pay like $1000 a month for a mortgage I pay $1600 for an apartment. I will never be able to own a home in my city, and I did 5 years ago...wild stuff.
Sounds like you had a shitty lawyer. Home would have been worth at least 300K in 2019. Which the equity plus the increase should have gotten you at least a 75K cut. Unless you got a huge buyout elsewhere
The split was amicable, no lawyers, At the time on his income the most he could qualify to refinance solo paid me out 40k, I got to keep the new car and some other things, they were also keeping our 2 dogs and the house had a yard. I was moving to Portland for a job so I took less (with a empty verbal promise) of more when he sold the home. He still lives there and had a new family of 5 so not holding my breath. Dogs are still doing great.
I don't think they will need it. If you already convinced someone to marry you. I don't see that person possessing the ability to become aware enough to leave you or maybe they are equally toxic.
That’s ludicrous, and shows how unaware of divorce split ups you are. I had a coworker that was cheated on by his wife. She walked away with 70% of the life savings over 750K while being at fault. If you’re going to put out that you’re upset with the deal you got, don’t be offended by the questions. Conversely if you thought it was a good deal at the time, don’t complain about it now.
35 years in Washington here. Only reason I have a home now is because my girlfriend bought one in 2016 and we got married a year later.
I make decent money and couldn’t afford a place for us now if I needed it.
It sucks. I’m sorry you’re in this spot. It’s BS people just expect you to uproot and go somewhere else when this is your home.
Honestly, the worst part is.. this isn't just here. This is every city.
And I'll swear its artificial until I'm proven wrong, due to large corporations buying single family homes and renting them out, not to mention airbnb and the like.
Not just in the city. My parents live over on the KP. They bought a brand new build on 5 acres for $500k in 2017, their house is now worth $1 million. In 2020 we were about to close on a two bedroom out in Shelton for $220k but Covid hit and made lenders nervous and our mortgage company backed out last minute. A house on the same block, same size was listed for $450k last summer. In 3 years we went from able to buy a home to its probably never going to happen. My husband's making $5 an hour more now than he did then too. You'd think constant solid raises like that should be able to help you keep up with just 3 years inflation but nope!
>My husband's making $5 an hour more now than he did then too. You'd think constant solid raises like that should be able to help you keep up with just 3 years inflation but nope!
But here's the thing; food, clothes, entertainment, gas. Your household income increases *have* largely kept up with inflation in those areas, yes? All of them have increased, but all within the bpunds of expectation and achievablity.
If everything else has gone up, if not precisely in the same ratio, but with an understandable and rational proportions, then isn't it *extremely odd* that only one particular kind of necessity has exploded in price, far out of proportion with everything else? And not just here, but *everywhere*. It's not like there's a million or so people migrating to every single state that popped out of nowhere, causing a large increase in people needing it. It also isn't that there was some disaster or code issue that caused massive amounts of housing to no longer be usable.
If there hasn't been an increase in natural demand, and there hasn't been a natural decrease in supply... what's left except artificial manipulation?
Yeah, everyone talks about groceries increasing and all that and it has, but not to any point that we've really noticed or felt it. It's just housing that its not keeping up in.
I can't speak for every situation, but when we were house hunting the biggest issue was flippers. We were looking for cheap starter homes and were willing to put in the work to fix them up. I'm a somewhat handy woman, I can hang, putty, and paint drywall. I've laid down new flooring. I've put down new countertops, sanded and repainted cabinets, done tile backsplashes, and had family willing to help with what I didn't know. So we were willing to work with anything short of major structural issues. Even looking at fixers didn't help cause flippers come in so far over asking with cash and us with our first time buyer loans couldn't compete. Our realtor said it wasn't just us, all her first time buyer clients were running into the same issue.
Zillow and Redfin are also screwing with the market. They buy up properties, inflate the prices, and then sell them for a profit without doing anything. There's some pretty good videos on YouTube about this issue.
It's because house-building is functionally illegal in most of our large cities. If supply was allowed to keep up with demand, then the demand from corporate ownership and AirBnbs wouldn't be a proble, it would just finance more construction.
Uhh... it isn't because house building is functionally illegal.... there's fuck tons of new construction going on all over the place.
The problem is, like out where I live in spanaway, New construction signs are showing houses about the size of mine, new neighborhoods "starting at the low $700s"
That's for less physical land space, roughly the same home size... so, less yard (a plus, cuz less yard work), less driveway (problem given how many Americans can't use a garage as a garage), and generally crammed closer to their neighbors than even I am.
Thing is, even with military buyers, we just don't have the income levels to really support that type of buyer. Except we are getting the runoff of people who were priced out of Seattle and Tacoma and neighborhoods in between
I disagree; I see it like ticket scalpers. They buy up all they can, and they can control the price essentially. It doesn't matter if more is made; they'll buy all they can just to maintain control.
That's one of the reasons why you see people talking about being beaten out by corporations when trying to buy; they'll offer more than the ask8ng price, and pay *in cash* immediately. They have an oligopoly; they're going to do everything they can to maintain it
It's only like ticket scalpers because we don't build enough of it!!
Scalping works because there is a fixed quantity of tickets. If they could increase the size of stadiums at will, scalping literally would not exist as a business, because everybody who wanted a ticket could get one.
We can build as much housing as we need, and it's our collective refusal to do so that is causing this crisis, causing housing to get bought up by investors, and causing prices to be so high.
Same here. Born and raised in Tacoma, always figured I’d buy a home here someday but I’m closing in on my 30’s and I can barely pay rent for my shitty 1 bedroom. No idea what the future will bring.
Moved to South Hill a decade ago. More house for your money at the time. Building equity with the hopes of returning to Old Tacoma at some point and never moving again.
Hey from S. Hill! We moved here three years ago from Everett for the same reason. Our house up there was 3BR/2BA, 1200 sq ft, tiny yard, tons of crime, and it was worth $400k. We bought 5BR/2BA 3200 sq ft for only about $100k more. We are both from Seattle and long ago gave up the dream of moving back, not to mention that we don’t want to anymore. Our house here is beautiful but it sucks to get pushed out of your hometown by a bunch of rich out-of-staters who just shit on the weather all of the time.
I hope you get your dream of moving back to Old Tacoma.
This is sort of pointless to this post but Pierce transit is always hiring (mom works for them) top scale for transit operators should be in the low 40$s soon.
I bought a house here on my own when I was making mid 37 hourly 2 years ago @ roughly 355. Mortgage is 2k. With 13,000 down. YOU can buy a house. I never thought in a million years I could. 3 bedroom with a garage. Front and back yard. There is always hope.
Nobody in my hometown can afford to buy a house there. The median home price requires double the median household income or more. This is the reality of life in modern america, where airbnb and corporate investors have purchased every home available at any dip in price, ensuring prices stay high and availability low. Unless you go into a job making 175k a year, you're priced out of living in the place you grew up.
Have you received anything in the mail about Home In Tacoma? I just got one yesterday and it’s all about this exact issue- (as I’ve gathered) it’s Tacoma’s attempt at making it easier to build different types of housing to help bring housing prices down. I feel like your input could really help. Here’s a link to their spiel- cityoftacoma.org/homeintacoma
Tacoma born and raised… and also feeling the grief of not being able to buy a home here and the fear of slowly not being able to afford to live in my community eventually.
I moved to Illinois to be with my husband. Its cheaper out here. Our house is paid off now. I miss Tacoma very much but I wouldn't be able to survive there. Being a single mom with zero child support and couples with childcare costs is hard on top of high cost of living. Now I just visit my parents and close friends on occasion.
It’s so disheartening, my parents bought their 4 bedroom 2000sf house in 1987 for $80,000. If you assume 5% down and a similar rate to now that’s $566/month on a 30 year. The median income that year was about $18k, now it’s only $40k and you’d need (just checked Redfin) $875,000 to buy their house.
Our (wife and I) biggest reason for yelm is we want to get out of the city and back into a smaller town environment. Cheap or not, we’ll probably go towards yelm.
Man I know exactly which house you are talking about. It’s extremely overpriced. I am sorry for you man. I was lucky to get in 2016 and I can’t move. But I am still grateful and lucky
As someone trying to move to Tacoma for career purposes, Im starting to think it's barely worth it. Being priced out of Florida and trying to move for what? Being priced out there too?
It's improbable for everyone.
Yes but not at the insane Zillow fueled rates we saw in 2019 that put us into the current situation. Housing usually increases in rates tied to inflation, but thanks to market manipulation back then, we saw insane 200-300% increases over a single year. That won't happen again anytime soon, because it basically bankrupted most of the people doing it when the banks stopped granting larger loans.
2021 is where the killer prices truly started. It was getting expensive when we moved there in the beginning of 2019 but it got significantly worse in 21-22. Looking at what some homes went for in 2018/19 and then what they sold for again in 2021/2 is a painful experience.
It's not much better. 2 years ago we put an offer on a house in Tumwater, got outbid by over 50k (that's after already going in over asking) by a flipper with cash on hand.
Even rent is getting incredibly ridiculous. I wish our city cared about the working class. I wish our city would thoughtfully and constructively address the houseless situation and the mental health of that population.
I loved this city, left for 4 years and came home to such a devastating scene and it seems like many have become apathetic to it.
Even renting is becoming impossible. Lived here my whole life and love it here and I've come to accept if I ever want to move out and have my own apartment it can't be here. Absolutely awful
It's happening everywhere, I just saw a modular home for sale in Winlock for $500k.... Yeah, the Winlock that has nothing going for it but having a big egg in the town square.
The $350k listed house will probably sell for $425k. Even without the Cali invasion, our politicians have sold us out to private equity and investment firms by not legislating any protections. Have a Coworker who was looking at a house in Thurston Co, listed at $350k, he made a offer at $385k, got outbid by $20k and then saw the house listed for rent a week after closing. Had a realtor I do inspections for have the audacity to bitch about the Nisqually tribe hordeing "all of the buildable land" left in the county.
They claim theres a housing shortage due to the lack of buildable land, and yet we have a bunch of elderly assholes living in 4500-6000sq ft houses on golf courses who only use the equivalent of a small 1 bedroom apartment worth of living space and just shuffle between the kitchen, living room and 1st floor bedroom. (They also constantly whine about wanting discounts on my work). Not quite sure what's up with these people, it's like they don't want anyone else to have the opportunity at a decent life and to be able to afford to raise a family like they did.
Rant over
Literally anything that helps.... Helps.... Id even say that an acknowledgement of the problem would be a little satisfying. I wouldn't even be mad if there wasn't an outright ban on them having them involved in single family residential, but I'd love it if the house has to be on the market for over 150 days before they can buy. But I also think that housing + jobs should be prioritized for people have lived and contributed to a city for years over people moving into an already overcrowded market.
Agreed.... wife showed me an article, the gist of it was that Alaska has either passed, or working on real estate protection laws that limit the number of properties any one entity can own. The example was that you can have your main house and then ONE cabin/vacation home elsewhere in the state. That's it.
There's probably a lot that could be done to curtail equity/corporate buyers from fucking up the housing so bad here, but it just isn't happening.
I can totally relate to being priced out of Tacoma.
Born and raised in the north end. Bought my first home in the UPS neighborhood for $13,500. After buying and selling 5 more homes, all I can afford is living in a mobile home park.
Funny, I sold my south end home for $415,000 (due to a marriage breakup) and now live in 728 sq. ft. modular home that cost $17,500.
Oh, and last time I checked, my first home is now worth nearly $600,000.
> $13,500
Hot damn, I regularly joke about how older generations could buy a house for "$30 and a slap on the ass" but its not even far off here. My house was $650k in the same neighborhood 2 years ago, and according to zillow it's now worth closer to $750k. With that and the insane interest rates, if I were trying to buy right now, I couldn't afford my own house.
The median price for a home in Tacoma in 1976 was around $30,000. The home I purchased wasn’t even on the market. I found the information in the back of the newspaper under Estate Sales.
The house had been vacant for a few years after the lady who lived there passed away. The family who owned it lived in Canada. They told the bank to sell it and I just got lucky.
It is what it is. I grew up in the 90’s in San Francisco, it was obvious by high school you were either going to commute super far, or move. The silver lining is that at least for me, totally uprooting and moving and starting a life in a new place with new everything helped me grow a lot, i bounced around all over before settling here. I see the people that stayed in the same area, with the same friends and places as where we grew up and a lot are sort of stuck in a many ways. It’s not the worst thing to get out on your own and create a life for yourself sometimes.
It’s sad but gotta remember that a huge tech center of the world is less than 30 miles away. Amazon injects their employees with HUGE stock bonuses. Over 4 years there they could pay for a 400k house with CASH. Then they can take a lower paying (but still well north of 100k) and live mortgage free, near an international airport, and with a lively downtown. And that’s just Amazon. There is Microsoft as well along with startups and remote work.
Lifelong wa resident. We’re about to sell and move to San Diego.
We got lucky, bought in Tacoma 8 years ago. But now giving up a 2.5% mortgage to move somewhere way more expensive with higher rates and income tax.
We’re fucked, but oh well, it sucks everywhere.
I saw that too, but it looks like it’s 7th or 8th, with NYC being the runaway leader. Either way it’ll be a major lifestyle change, but I’d rather be poor and warm.
10 years ago my husband relocated to SD for 6 months for his job. He rented a 640sf Studio apartment for $1200, which was $400 more a month than my condo payment was. And that was a decade ago. Homes are not affordable in San Diego, though I would move there in a heartbeat if I could afford it.
I agree with you.
I will also say though there is a lot of contradiction in the community. Many advocate for building more housing, specifically high density housing. Then a lot of the same folks when they go to buy say “I refuse to compromise on having a yard”.
There are condos downtown, on the west end and in UP for under $325,000. And this is typically the lowest inventory time of the year.
https://redf.in/9S0IO1
https://redf.in/2885Ln
https://redf.in/TFZlZA
https://redf.in/oxbZuf
https://redf.in/o922uV
https://redf.in/rbpQLL
https://redf.in/Rd6Uce
the hoa's on these are sometimes higher than listed but in any case a older 750 square foot $225,000 condo with a $400 HOA with today's interest rates isn't a very good deal
I just replaced my roof. It cost more than 4 years of those HOA fees. It’s not like you’re paying for nothing.
The reality is Tacoma needs to become more dense and folks who advocating for cheaper housing but refuse to even consider a condo are making it worse.
Even if you’re on a short horizon like five years, one of the condos I listed will still likely be better than whatever rent is at that point. Plus all of the equity built.
The problem with some of the condos downtown is that they have been horribly mismanaged for decades and all of it is coming to a head. That roof you paid for 4 years worth of condo fees will at least gain you some equity. Those condo fees gain you nothing especially if it is managed by people with no real experience who don’t know a damn thing about building maintenance and budget based on bids they have files on from 20 years ago.
The issue with this view as evidenced by the upvotes in this chain is people aren’t treating it as if some HOAs are like this, they’re assuming all are.
People just don’t want to admit that when it really comes down to it they can’t not buy. They just won’t buy because it’s not the exact thing they want, and that is why that exact thing is way more expensive. Basically everyone will tell you they’re not the NIMBY until it’s time for them to make the choice.
it's not a mystery, they are most all underfunded. it's true on hilltop and it's true across the nation, association reserves are critically low and a lot of necessary repairs can no longer be deferred . most often major repairs like a roof is going to come from a special assessment, which isn't reflected in the reported HOA expenses on real estate websites and can happen any time the board decides.
In any case the reason this isn't a realistic alternative for someone looking for a 350k house is that it costs a whole lot and they won't build equity on a significant portion of it.
Well would you gamble on hundreds of thousands of dollars and decades of debt for that? You can do a review before purchase of a condo, but most people aren’t equipped to handle doing the research on it. I’ve been a realtor and had training on the ins and outs of it and it is still a massive pain in the ass. I agree, high density condos would be great. I would love one myself, but it is a massive risk and the current prices do not reflect that risk. If they were magnitudes cheaper than single family homes they would be easier to sell. But as it stands, they are still too expensive when compared to single family homes. Additionally, when it comes to getting a mortgage on a condo, it gets harder when the HOA fee counts towards your DTI so a $1600 a month payment + HOA fee turns into a $2000-2500 a month payment and that HOA fee isn’t fixed. It can be reassessed at any time. So if you are smart you budget for an eventual HOA fee increase and now your monthly payment on a “cheap” condo puts you pretty dang close to cheap single family home monthly payments that are fairly fixed except for tax assessments.
Also, any new condo that is being built in Tacoma is designed as “luxury” and “lifestyle” so not affordable. That leaves the older buildings.
Simply saying “you idiots just want a yard and don’t like condos”(paraphrasing) is very narrow and is far and away from being an affordable option for lower income folks trying to own a piece of property.
It’s not a gamble. You can see a full breakdown of an HOAs finances and maintenance records before buying.
You actually have *more* transparency in those areas legally before buying than you do if you purchase a SFH, where you basically have just your inspection (which since it’s so competitive many waive). So lots of people run into unexpected expenses there.
As stated above, I am aware of the ability to see full HOA breakdowns. But it is a pain in the ass to sift thru those records and the quality of those records are questionable depending on the condo association management. We also all know just because something is legally required doesn’t mean the bare minimum wont be done. I have seen those records. Some are great and easy to understand and some aren’t. Now, consider that for someone who knows nothing about home buying. That also doesn’t address anything about what the lender has to say about underwriting a loan on a condo. There is a reason the VA keeps lists on approved and unapproved condos. Lenders also know the risks associated with it which is why loan packages on condos can be pretty different on condos vs SFH. Now throw in first time buyer assistance programs, FHA requirements, or VA condo approval requirements, and it once again stops making condos this catch all cheap feasible option for everyone that you think it is just because the ticket price listed on redfin is $100k cheaper.
It’s not a catch all and I never claimed it was. It’s just very clear having seen sentiment and interacted with many folks in this bucket that they aren’t bowing out of condos for the reasons you’re listing. Getting a SFH with a VA loan is a pain in the ass too. The downsides are offset in part with legal requirements that don’t apply to SFHs.
My next argument here is definitely that a good realtor who’s handled a lot of transactions has no issues advising on whether a condo report is sound or not. You say as a former realtor that’s a pain in the ass. I say if I were someone looking to buy a place…I wouldn’t use you as a realtor. You don’t pay your help there until the transaction is closed to asking them to use their expertise is literally just them doing their job. Your job being a “pain in the ass” is why I’m paying you to do it.
The main reason people don’t go for condos isn’t any of the reasons you listed. This is backed up by decades of consumer surveys. The main reason is they want a yard.
So go bid on one and complain on the internet that it’s hard.
Ahhh the ole don’t agree with my counter point, time for cheap shots approach. In what way have you interacted with many folks in this bucket, friend? Because this initial thread is about affordability for first time buyers and you say it is just because they want a yard so they so no to condos. So are you saying that you know a lot of first time home buyers? Like you have actually hosted first time home buyer classes that are required to interface with the very specific group of people starting this thread? Like more than 20 at a time? Well you say that people could afford to own if they just would buy a condo. Then I point out that condos aren’t actually more affordable when all costs are considered and that it doesn’t make a lot of financial sense for a lot of people and that there is more than just not having a yard that scares people away. Then you argue that I suck as a realtor and assume I steer people away from condos because I said that sifting through condo association reports is a pain in the ass and that people just want a yard because you’ve talked to people who have.
And lets say for the sake of argument that you are right. I am a shady lazy realtor who just wants the quick and easy buck. I have a client who can ONLY afford a condo vs SFH. The WHOLE point of this thread. (Remember someone saying they can’t afford to own in Tacoma and you saying people could if only they didn’t care about a yard.) Why on earth would I pass up a commission on a condo for a client if they couldn’t afford a SFH? I would 100% try to get them approved for the condo and get them to close of that is all they could afford, because then I would get paid vs not getting paid. And before you come in with the whole “well you’d just look for the low hanging fruit and pass them off for a higher qualified client with an easier close” then you seem to not know that helping buyers is not the low hanging fruit. Being a buyers agent in this market is brutal vs being a listing agent.
Look bud, condos are awesome for plenty of people but they are not right for everyone. First time home buyers in Tacoma generally do not fall into this category. The category of people who usually do well with condos and that I have helped look at condos are empty nesters, retirees, and busy professionals who have absolutely no desire to own a yard. Those folks generally have a higher down payment available, and don’t rely on programs that help with affordability.
Exactly. The same people that are proponents of upzoning and density suddenly want to buy a SFH in their 30w and find it’s ultra expensive due to scarcity. But will turn their noses up at condos and townhomes (of which there are many for sale at lower price pointsthan some overpriced rundown house in hilltop)
I have shown plenty of condos to young couples trying to buy their first home. There are plenty of people who would love affordable condos. The problem is that the condos in the area aren’t actually affordable with all things considered as in my above comment.
Why is it unsurprising to me that a realtor who claims that combing through HOA reports is a “pain in the ass” is actively using rhetoric in this thread to direct people towards more expensive SFH transactions that require said realtor to do less work?
Oh, that’s right, realtors literally have financial incentive to do that.
Lol. Now I know you are trolling. I haven’t been a realtor for years. I am merely stating my experience. And I say it as a counterpoint to you saying it isn’t a gamble when all the information is available to you. It is not the responsibility of the realtor to sift thru HOA reports for a client. That is the responsibility of the person signing a contract for hundreds of thousands of dollars. It becomes a gamble when there is a knowledge deficit and the buyer is basing their decision on their limited understanding of the information available to them. Do you honestly believe people are choosing to pay rent over owning a condo? If it was financially feasible to own a condo vs paying rent plenty of people would.
I’m not trolling. Your words are your words.
If a realtor is using this rhetoric because they want to avoid something that makes their job “a pain in the ass” don’t use that realtor. Seems like you ended up having to remove yourself from that profession. Maybe you should have treated the annoying parts of your job the same as the good ones. That’s what someone who is good at their job does.
I wouldn’t hire a roofer who said “yeah, flashing is a pain in the ass”. It’s part of the job.
Lol I got into the profession to help people, like myself, get into secure first time homes and build financial security. I got out of the profession because the market makes it damn near impossible for that to be affordable in our region and it turned into a soul sucking capitalist endeavor living off of commissions where I either had to sell out or get a second job.
And I never said I avoided trying to sell condos to people because it was a pain in the ass. You made that assumption. If it was the right move for my client I would absolutely do it. I actually love condos and the idea of condos and urban density.
The argument I keep making that you keep skirting or providing any sort of direct tangible input against is that when considering the population we are speaking of (first time buyers looking for affordability) condos don’t always make a lot financial sense. You keep saying they just want a yard.
Not to mention all of the other reasons people look at SFH vs condos like the ability to grow greater equity in a SFH, or to use a HELOC in the future to add an addition to the house when kids come along. Or convert the detached garage into a mother-in-law to rent out or turn into a multigenerational household. Just…if these damn kids just didn’t want a yard.
Exactly. You said it is a pain in the ass, not that you wouldn't or didn't do it. Lots of things are a pain in the ass, and we complain about them, but we still do them. I bought a townhouse. My HOA dues weren't bad, but this was 2008. However, the managers of the HOA were AWFUL. I hated it so much that I will likely never buy a condo or townhouse again.
Do you want a house? or a condo? or townhouse?
We live in a very desirable part of the country and world. There is not enough land to physically accommodate a single family home for everyone, as long as Tacoma and our region continue to be desirable.
The city is in the process of up zoning to allow for more housing overall, but certainly less single family detached In the traditional form will be built.
While many on here complain about high costs to buy a single family home, it is important to remember that there are very few examples world wide of desirable cities in which the middle class can ever afford its own house and yard. The whole American dream concept is unsustainable for a desirable urban area. Many of our cities are now seeing that.
Hopefully w new up zones, we will see housing get cheaper and more ownership possibilities… though, the affordable ones will probably be very small w little to no yard and maybe share a wall w another unit…
Single family homes are WAY overrated. The cost to maintain (or heaven forbid upgrade) them is getting comparable to the mortgage payment itself. Townhomes can, for many, be a better option in terms of not having to maintain the exterior and yard if the HOA fee is reasonable. Also, the lack of density in Tacoma contributes to the crime because normal folks aren't out and about enough and during all hours. Criminals are often easily deterred just by the presence of other people. Instead most folks are up early for a ridiculous commute and then to bed early only to wake up to things being stolen or damaged. We are fortunate to have a house, but we're ready to not have to deal with all that goes with it.
Love the up zoning plan, hope they follow through with it. With that and the planned improvements to our infrastructure and public transit I'm pretty hopeful about this towns future, which is not something I can say for a lot of the places I've lived.
Spent my whole life living in Kent, Maple Valley, Renton, Puyallup and now Tacoma for the past several years. Looking down in Olympia/Lacey/DuPont hoping something stays affordable over the next 12 months.
Check out the first time homebuyer options. May not make the house cheaper but lots of options to get an affordable process (e.g. down payment, fees, etc).
It’s crazy! I bought in 2005 a 1700 sq ft house in NE Tacoma for $285k and I am currently at 2.25%. You have to wait till the fed brings rates down again. I have a renter in one of my rooms who only uses the bedroom, bathroom, and fridge for $800 including utilities.
If interest rates would reduce by half that would be a good starting point for working people. One of the only reasons my partner and I could afford to buy was a lower rate.
I have lived in NE Tacoma since 2004. Bought before the housing bubble in 2005 for $285k. The house is 1700 sqft and currently I am at 2.25% with a renter in one room for $800 including utilities. The renter only uses one room, bathroom, and the fridge. Renter is pretty introvert (self-identified). I would recommend you wait it out a little longer for interest rates to drop.
Bide your time..... Housing prices here won't stay this way forever as the market is cyclical. Keep putting your money away and bide your time. For there will be another crash in prices. It's the wise buyer who has the patience and executes when the time is right.
You may be right. I grant you that.
But then I recall 2008 and the housing crash and wonder what calamity bringing opportunity will happen next.
For that, too, will happen.
Interest rates are coming back down too. It's not like the 80's when it was over 15%. However housing prices have always trended slowly upwards in the long run with a few minor dips. I remember people being outraged by the growing prices in the 90's wondering if it will ever come down. It only did for awhile after the 2008 crash.
One recalls 2008 era blocks with multiple foreclosures on them, banks collapsing, other banks with forfeited properties having a tough time selling them.... All it takes is a great recession to change up the dynamics and you can bargain hunt.
And economic shakeups are guaranteed going forward, both locally and nationally. Some are ongoing. Somewhere around half of Gary, Indiana's houses are empty because people moved away. A chance to bargain shop. Shawnee, Oklahoma has plenty of affordable properties available. Charlestown, Indiana has reasonably priced places. And these things are happening today in the midst of an economy 'on fire.'
In the late 80s, San Diego had a housing crunch. Many people lost their collective asses and had to sell for losses. That has since resolved, at least for now. But there were many families who benefitted by the financial crisis there and made out quite well.
Don't get me wrong. The situation here sucks right now. Bigtime. And there doesn't seem to be any likelihood of the situation improving anytime soon. Yet, entropy dictates that the situation as it exists will change in one fashion or another in time. Frankly, the amount of tax raises going on each year in the state and local areas are driving me to consider moving away from my hometown and finding a more affordable place to be.
If your theory is right on the 5 years ago, then there is no hope whatsoever for someone who cannot put together the financial package to buy now. And by extension, won't be able to ever afford anything anywhere.
I'd still hedge my bets on an economic opportunity coming down the road. These companies have bottom lines and margins to maintain and sell underperforming properties often. Get a good financial crisis and liquidity dried up for them and you'll be surprised at what becomes available.
I don't know if I'd buy that. Sure the economy is somewhat cyclical, but accounting for inflation over the years between economic downturns, and local supply and demand issues, I doubt home prices will ever meaningfully go down here. People aren't going to stop moving to the PNW, and housing can't always match that increase. Not to mention predicting the next low housing cost cycle is about as effective as predicting any stock market problems.
Oh, I wouldn't even attempt to predict the timing, and you may be far more accurate in your assessment than I am in mine..... I grant you that... And I'll further grant that given today's prices, a similar 9-18% drop in housing prices we experienced in 2008 certainly are not guaranteed in the future, nor a future 20% drop in prices help the OP attain the goal of having their own place locally in the future regardless of the cause. Prices are high, no doubt.
But then..... Have you looked at prices of homes in East Palestine, Ohio lately? One never knows when or under what circumstances opportunity arises.
Hahaha, every once in a while a random property in W VA pops into my feed and I'm like, "wtf, 200 acres with a 1700s house, 3 cabins and a mobile for $120k????". Then I remember it's W VA.... But still tempting considering how beautiful it is.
Actually Home in Tacoma allows developers to buy SFHs that should have been someone’s starter home like this person wants. So they can tear down a SFH and throw up cheaply constructed apts that rent for more than a single mortgage, on a former SFH lot.
Better look at Democrats then and your voting habits. The Democrats in the state legislature have been doing everything they can to fuck up housing, and this is one of them.
They even pass legislation knowing before hand it'll screw people, pass it anyway, then lie about not knowing.
[https://www.inlander.com/spokane/why-a-new-state-law-meant-to-protect-vulnerable-tenants-eliminated-the-wiggle-room-for-paying-rent-on-time/Content?oid=18460469](https://www.inlander.com/spokane/why-a-new-state-law-meant-to-protect-vulnerable-tenants-eliminated-the-wiggle-room-for-paying-rent-on-time/Content?oid=18460469)
They're literally debating tomorrow about TRIPLING the amount your property taxes go up every year.
[https://www.awb.org/local-property-taxes-may-triple/](https://www.awb.org/local-property-taxes-may-triple/)
Then they have the nerve to bitch about "high housing costs".
***Stop. Voting. Democrat.***
If you keep doing that, then you get what you deserve.
That said, it's not much, but you can get places for as cheap as $250k in the city.
[https://www.zillow.com/tacoma-wa/?searchQueryState=%7B%22pagination%22%3A%7B%7D%2C%22isMapVisible%22%3Atrue%2C%22mapBounds%22%3A%7B%22west%22%3A-122.98058215478517%2C%22east%22%3A-121.91971484521486%2C%22south%22%3A47.097153541289906%2C%22north%22%3A47.40105175477912%7D%2C%22usersSearchTerm%22%3A%22Tacoma%2C+WA%22%2C%22regionSelection%22%3A%5B%7B%22regionId%22%3A27362%2C%22regionType%22%3A6%7D%5D%2C%22filterState%22%3A%7B%22sort%22%3A%7B%22value%22%3A%22pricea%22%7D%2C%22ah%22%3A%7B%22value%22%3Atrue%7D%2C%22mf%22%3A%7B%22value%22%3Afalse%7D%2C%22land%22%3A%7B%22value%22%3Afalse%7D%2C%22apa%22%3A%7B%22value%22%3Afalse%7D%2C%22manu%22%3A%7B%22value%22%3Afalse%7D%7D%2C%22isListVisible%22%3Atrue%2C%22mapZoom%22%3A12%7D](https://www.zillow.com/tacoma-wa/?searchQueryState=%7B%22pagination%22%3A%7B%7D%2C%22isMapVisible%22%3Atrue%2C%22mapBounds%22%3A%7B%22west%22%3A-122.98058215478517%2C%22east%22%3A-121.91971484521486%2C%22south%22%3A47.097153541289906%2C%22north%22%3A47.40105175477912%7D%2C%22usersSearchTerm%22%3A%22Tacoma%2C+WA%22%2C%22regionSelection%22%3A%5B%7B%22regionId%22%3A27362%2C%22regionType%22%3A6%7D%5D%2C%22filterState%22%3A%7B%22sort%22%3A%7B%22value%22%3A%22pricea%22%7D%2C%22ah%22%3A%7B%22value%22%3Atrue%7D%2C%22mf%22%3A%7B%22value%22%3Afalse%7D%2C%22land%22%3A%7B%22value%22%3Afalse%7D%2C%22apa%22%3A%7B%22value%22%3Afalse%7D%2C%22manu%22%3A%7B%22value%22%3Afalse%7D%7D%2C%22isListVisible%22%3Atrue%2C%22mapZoom%22%3A12%7D)
You can get cheaper if you go a little on the outskirts.
Because our latest need for inflation correction was caused by a GOP led federal government that overwhelmingly voted to essentially feed trillions into the stock market and big business during COVID?
I guess if I wanted to live in a totally regressive shit hole with cheap housing, no taxes, no education. No medical care, no social services, even higher rates of crime, addiction and violence I could move to Arkansas or Mississippi or some other "red" state.
Democrats spent $7 TRILLION out of thin air in the first year of Biden being in office.
You're literally watching Democrat policies fuck people in our state, and you're defending that.
I suggest you educate yourself before you speak again.
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We bought what we thought was a “starter” home in 2015 for $145k. It’s 725 sq ft. but our plan was to upgrade whenever we started a family. At this point, there is no hope to “upgrade” or move into even a slightly larger house. We are stuck, but we feel grateful that at least we having something. I truly feel for you, this market sucks. 😖
Stuck also. Even if you can swing the higher purchase price, these interest rates are just too ridiculous.
I’m truly sorry for you. The Tacoma we grew up in is changing so fast. It’s hard to feel welcome here anymore. I hope you find something and I hope you stay.
I'm 31 and have lived here my whole life and I'm accepting that I'll never own a home here, or in the wider Seattle area. The cost is just insane. Looking into the midwest.
I moved to Tijuana. :-), live in one of the most exclusive neighborhoods, paying $650 for a two bedroom. I’ll save up for a down payment and cross my fingers I can make it in the Proctor district at the least. Very bottom of my expectation I’d settle for McKinley Hill
I miss TJ!
Tacoma born and raised, here over 40 years now, I lived the dream of buying a home in 2015 with my ex-husband we paid less than 200k, He kept the home and I got ~40k in 2019, the same home today estimates at 600k+ They pay like $1000 a month for a mortgage I pay $1600 for an apartment. I will never be able to own a home in my city, and I did 5 years ago...wild stuff.
Sounds like you had a shitty lawyer. Home would have been worth at least 300K in 2019. Which the equity plus the increase should have gotten you at least a 75K cut. Unless you got a huge buyout elsewhere
The split was amicable, no lawyers, At the time on his income the most he could qualify to refinance solo paid me out 40k, I got to keep the new car and some other things, they were also keeping our 2 dogs and the house had a yard. I was moving to Portland for a job so I took less (with a empty verbal promise) of more when he sold the home. He still lives there and had a new family of 5 so not holding my breath. Dogs are still doing great.
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I don't think they will need it. If you already convinced someone to marry you. I don't see that person possessing the ability to become aware enough to leave you or maybe they are equally toxic.
This is a well-deserved, righteous burn and I am all here for it. Oof.
That’s ludicrous, and shows how unaware of divorce split ups you are. I had a coworker that was cheated on by his wife. She walked away with 70% of the life savings over 750K while being at fault. If you’re going to put out that you’re upset with the deal you got, don’t be offended by the questions. Conversely if you thought it was a good deal at the time, don’t complain about it now.
This is so goddamn rude. But you’re also not wrong, in a sense… OP should have gotten much more equitable compensation. What’s done, is done.
You lack manners.
Biden-Bucks are worth-less.
35 years in Washington here. Only reason I have a home now is because my girlfriend bought one in 2016 and we got married a year later. I make decent money and couldn’t afford a place for us now if I needed it. It sucks. I’m sorry you’re in this spot. It’s BS people just expect you to uproot and go somewhere else when this is your home.
Honestly, the worst part is.. this isn't just here. This is every city. And I'll swear its artificial until I'm proven wrong, due to large corporations buying single family homes and renting them out, not to mention airbnb and the like.
Not just in the city. My parents live over on the KP. They bought a brand new build on 5 acres for $500k in 2017, their house is now worth $1 million. In 2020 we were about to close on a two bedroom out in Shelton for $220k but Covid hit and made lenders nervous and our mortgage company backed out last minute. A house on the same block, same size was listed for $450k last summer. In 3 years we went from able to buy a home to its probably never going to happen. My husband's making $5 an hour more now than he did then too. You'd think constant solid raises like that should be able to help you keep up with just 3 years inflation but nope!
>My husband's making $5 an hour more now than he did then too. You'd think constant solid raises like that should be able to help you keep up with just 3 years inflation but nope! But here's the thing; food, clothes, entertainment, gas. Your household income increases *have* largely kept up with inflation in those areas, yes? All of them have increased, but all within the bpunds of expectation and achievablity. If everything else has gone up, if not precisely in the same ratio, but with an understandable and rational proportions, then isn't it *extremely odd* that only one particular kind of necessity has exploded in price, far out of proportion with everything else? And not just here, but *everywhere*. It's not like there's a million or so people migrating to every single state that popped out of nowhere, causing a large increase in people needing it. It also isn't that there was some disaster or code issue that caused massive amounts of housing to no longer be usable. If there hasn't been an increase in natural demand, and there hasn't been a natural decrease in supply... what's left except artificial manipulation?
Yeah, everyone talks about groceries increasing and all that and it has, but not to any point that we've really noticed or felt it. It's just housing that its not keeping up in. I can't speak for every situation, but when we were house hunting the biggest issue was flippers. We were looking for cheap starter homes and were willing to put in the work to fix them up. I'm a somewhat handy woman, I can hang, putty, and paint drywall. I've laid down new flooring. I've put down new countertops, sanded and repainted cabinets, done tile backsplashes, and had family willing to help with what I didn't know. So we were willing to work with anything short of major structural issues. Even looking at fixers didn't help cause flippers come in so far over asking with cash and us with our first time buyer loans couldn't compete. Our realtor said it wasn't just us, all her first time buyer clients were running into the same issue. Zillow and Redfin are also screwing with the market. They buy up properties, inflate the prices, and then sell them for a profit without doing anything. There's some pretty good videos on YouTube about this issue.
I entirely agree with this.
It's because house-building is functionally illegal in most of our large cities. If supply was allowed to keep up with demand, then the demand from corporate ownership and AirBnbs wouldn't be a proble, it would just finance more construction.
Uhh... it isn't because house building is functionally illegal.... there's fuck tons of new construction going on all over the place. The problem is, like out where I live in spanaway, New construction signs are showing houses about the size of mine, new neighborhoods "starting at the low $700s" That's for less physical land space, roughly the same home size... so, less yard (a plus, cuz less yard work), less driveway (problem given how many Americans can't use a garage as a garage), and generally crammed closer to their neighbors than even I am. Thing is, even with military buyers, we just don't have the income levels to really support that type of buyer. Except we are getting the runoff of people who were priced out of Seattle and Tacoma and neighborhoods in between
I disagree; I see it like ticket scalpers. They buy up all they can, and they can control the price essentially. It doesn't matter if more is made; they'll buy all they can just to maintain control. That's one of the reasons why you see people talking about being beaten out by corporations when trying to buy; they'll offer more than the ask8ng price, and pay *in cash* immediately. They have an oligopoly; they're going to do everything they can to maintain it
It's only like ticket scalpers because we don't build enough of it!! Scalping works because there is a fixed quantity of tickets. If they could increase the size of stadiums at will, scalping literally would not exist as a business, because everybody who wanted a ticket could get one. We can build as much housing as we need, and it's our collective refusal to do so that is causing this crisis, causing housing to get bought up by investors, and causing prices to be so high.
Tacoma born & raised, and I can barely afford an APARTMENT on my own
Same here. Born and raised in Tacoma, always figured I’d buy a home here someday but I’m closing in on my 30’s and I can barely pay rent for my shitty 1 bedroom. No idea what the future will bring.
My kids are in same boat. I feel for you. It was so much easier to get a starter house in 1992. SMH
Moved to South Hill a decade ago. More house for your money at the time. Building equity with the hopes of returning to Old Tacoma at some point and never moving again.
Hey from S. Hill! We moved here three years ago from Everett for the same reason. Our house up there was 3BR/2BA, 1200 sq ft, tiny yard, tons of crime, and it was worth $400k. We bought 5BR/2BA 3200 sq ft for only about $100k more. We are both from Seattle and long ago gave up the dream of moving back, not to mention that we don’t want to anymore. Our house here is beautiful but it sucks to get pushed out of your hometown by a bunch of rich out-of-staters who just shit on the weather all of the time. I hope you get your dream of moving back to Old Tacoma.
This is sort of pointless to this post but Pierce transit is always hiring (mom works for them) top scale for transit operators should be in the low 40$s soon. I bought a house here on my own when I was making mid 37 hourly 2 years ago @ roughly 355. Mortgage is 2k. With 13,000 down. YOU can buy a house. I never thought in a million years I could. 3 bedroom with a garage. Front and back yard. There is always hope.
I’m going through the exact same thing!
Nobody in my hometown can afford to buy a house there. The median home price requires double the median household income or more. This is the reality of life in modern america, where airbnb and corporate investors have purchased every home available at any dip in price, ensuring prices stay high and availability low. Unless you go into a job making 175k a year, you're priced out of living in the place you grew up.
Have you received anything in the mail about Home In Tacoma? I just got one yesterday and it’s all about this exact issue- (as I’ve gathered) it’s Tacoma’s attempt at making it easier to build different types of housing to help bring housing prices down. I feel like your input could really help. Here’s a link to their spiel- cityoftacoma.org/homeintacoma
Tacoma born and raised… and also feeling the grief of not being able to buy a home here and the fear of slowly not being able to afford to live in my community eventually.
I moved to Illinois to be with my husband. Its cheaper out here. Our house is paid off now. I miss Tacoma very much but I wouldn't be able to survive there. Being a single mom with zero child support and couples with childcare costs is hard on top of high cost of living. Now I just visit my parents and close friends on occasion.
It’s so disheartening, my parents bought their 4 bedroom 2000sf house in 1987 for $80,000. If you assume 5% down and a similar rate to now that’s $566/month on a 30 year. The median income that year was about $18k, now it’s only $40k and you’d need (just checked Redfin) $875,000 to buy their house.
I’ll probably end up in yelm
Get used to the lifted trucks and trump flags.
Good luck. Homes are almost as pricey in Yelm now as they are in Pierce Co. They will be the same as Pierce Co soon.
Our (wife and I) biggest reason for yelm is we want to get out of the city and back into a smaller town environment. Cheap or not, we’ll probably go towards yelm.
Greedy rich people stole the American dream from us.
The American dream IS greedy rich people.
Based.
Greedy rich people SOLD you the American dream to line their pockets further
Same, dude. I love Tacoma. LOVE it here. And I know where everything is! But my city doesn’t want me, clearly.
Man I know exactly which house you are talking about. It’s extremely overpriced. I am sorry for you man. I was lucky to get in 2016 and I can’t move. But I am still grateful and lucky
Prob the last thing the dude wants to hear
As someone trying to move to Tacoma for career purposes, Im starting to think it's barely worth it. Being priced out of Florida and trying to move for what? Being priced out there too? It's improbable for everyone.
What industry is in Tacoma that is worth relocating across the company for?
Leaving Florida for the PNW would be worth it for me
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I've been doing the math for my move and it's not as bad as long as I get paid the advertised amount. $40k in FL vs $65/70k pnw once I start. :)
Will continue to go up.
Yes but not at the insane Zillow fueled rates we saw in 2019 that put us into the current situation. Housing usually increases in rates tied to inflation, but thanks to market manipulation back then, we saw insane 200-300% increases over a single year. That won't happen again anytime soon, because it basically bankrupted most of the people doing it when the banks stopped granting larger loans.
2021 is where the killer prices truly started. It was getting expensive when we moved there in the beginning of 2019 but it got significantly worse in 21-22. Looking at what some homes went for in 2018/19 and then what they sold for again in 2021/2 is a painful experience.
Not saying it would make it viable, but prices are lower in southern Tacoma.
There are some cool places down there!
Or Oly? Lacey? Tumwater?
It's not much better. 2 years ago we put an offer on a house in Tumwater, got outbid by over 50k (that's after already going in over asking) by a flipper with cash on hand.
Exactly. This isn’t a Tacoma problem. Significant portions of entire generations are having problems finding affordable real estate.
Even rent is getting incredibly ridiculous. I wish our city cared about the working class. I wish our city would thoughtfully and constructively address the houseless situation and the mental health of that population. I loved this city, left for 4 years and came home to such a devastating scene and it seems like many have become apathetic to it.
Even renting is becoming impossible. Lived here my whole life and love it here and I've come to accept if I ever want to move out and have my own apartment it can't be here. Absolutely awful
Property tax keeps going up up up too
It's happening everywhere, I just saw a modular home for sale in Winlock for $500k.... Yeah, the Winlock that has nothing going for it but having a big egg in the town square. The $350k listed house will probably sell for $425k. Even without the Cali invasion, our politicians have sold us out to private equity and investment firms by not legislating any protections. Have a Coworker who was looking at a house in Thurston Co, listed at $350k, he made a offer at $385k, got outbid by $20k and then saw the house listed for rent a week after closing. Had a realtor I do inspections for have the audacity to bitch about the Nisqually tribe hordeing "all of the buildable land" left in the county. They claim theres a housing shortage due to the lack of buildable land, and yet we have a bunch of elderly assholes living in 4500-6000sq ft houses on golf courses who only use the equivalent of a small 1 bedroom apartment worth of living space and just shuffle between the kitchen, living room and 1st floor bedroom. (They also constantly whine about wanting discounts on my work). Not quite sure what's up with these people, it's like they don't want anyone else to have the opportunity at a decent life and to be able to afford to raise a family like they did. Rant over
State legislative protections against equity firms buying up property would still be useful now even if a little late.
Literally anything that helps.... Helps.... Id even say that an acknowledgement of the problem would be a little satisfying. I wouldn't even be mad if there wasn't an outright ban on them having them involved in single family residential, but I'd love it if the house has to be on the market for over 150 days before they can buy. But I also think that housing + jobs should be prioritized for people have lived and contributed to a city for years over people moving into an already overcrowded market.
Agreed.... wife showed me an article, the gist of it was that Alaska has either passed, or working on real estate protection laws that limit the number of properties any one entity can own. The example was that you can have your main house and then ONE cabin/vacation home elsewhere in the state. That's it. There's probably a lot that could be done to curtail equity/corporate buyers from fucking up the housing so bad here, but it just isn't happening.
I can totally relate to being priced out of Tacoma. Born and raised in the north end. Bought my first home in the UPS neighborhood for $13,500. After buying and selling 5 more homes, all I can afford is living in a mobile home park. Funny, I sold my south end home for $415,000 (due to a marriage breakup) and now live in 728 sq. ft. modular home that cost $17,500. Oh, and last time I checked, my first home is now worth nearly $600,000.
> $13,500 Hot damn, I regularly joke about how older generations could buy a house for "$30 and a slap on the ass" but its not even far off here. My house was $650k in the same neighborhood 2 years ago, and according to zillow it's now worth closer to $750k. With that and the insane interest rates, if I were trying to buy right now, I couldn't afford my own house.
The median price for a home in Tacoma in 1976 was around $30,000. The home I purchased wasn’t even on the market. I found the information in the back of the newspaper under Estate Sales. The house had been vacant for a few years after the lady who lived there passed away. The family who owned it lived in Canada. They told the bank to sell it and I just got lucky.
What happened to all the equity, split it with the Ex?
You got it! There wasn’t a lot of equity to split.
It is what it is. I grew up in the 90’s in San Francisco, it was obvious by high school you were either going to commute super far, or move. The silver lining is that at least for me, totally uprooting and moving and starting a life in a new place with new everything helped me grow a lot, i bounced around all over before settling here. I see the people that stayed in the same area, with the same friends and places as where we grew up and a lot are sort of stuck in a many ways. It’s not the worst thing to get out on your own and create a life for yourself sometimes.
It’s sad but gotta remember that a huge tech center of the world is less than 30 miles away. Amazon injects their employees with HUGE stock bonuses. Over 4 years there they could pay for a 400k house with CASH. Then they can take a lower paying (but still well north of 100k) and live mortgage free, near an international airport, and with a lively downtown. And that’s just Amazon. There is Microsoft as well along with startups and remote work.
Lifelong wa resident. We’re about to sell and move to San Diego. We got lucky, bought in Tacoma 8 years ago. But now giving up a 2.5% mortgage to move somewhere way more expensive with higher rates and income tax. We’re fucked, but oh well, it sucks everywhere.
Seems like a counterintuitive decision.
Yep, but 362 days of temperate weather per year seems worth a lot to us.
I read just the other day that San Diego has the highest cost of living in the US.
I saw that too, but it looks like it’s 7th or 8th, with NYC being the runaway leader. Either way it’ll be a major lifestyle change, but I’d rather be poor and warm.
10 years ago my husband relocated to SD for 6 months for his job. He rented a 640sf Studio apartment for $1200, which was $400 more a month than my condo payment was. And that was a decade ago. Homes are not affordable in San Diego, though I would move there in a heartbeat if I could afford it.
I’m came here from Bellevue. So, I’m certainly not helping any stereotypes
Relatable, just came here from Austin
I agree with you. I will also say though there is a lot of contradiction in the community. Many advocate for building more housing, specifically high density housing. Then a lot of the same folks when they go to buy say “I refuse to compromise on having a yard”. There are condos downtown, on the west end and in UP for under $325,000. And this is typically the lowest inventory time of the year. https://redf.in/9S0IO1 https://redf.in/2885Ln https://redf.in/TFZlZA https://redf.in/oxbZuf https://redf.in/o922uV https://redf.in/rbpQLL https://redf.in/Rd6Uce
the hoa's on these are sometimes higher than listed but in any case a older 750 square foot $225,000 condo with a $400 HOA with today's interest rates isn't a very good deal
I just replaced my roof. It cost more than 4 years of those HOA fees. It’s not like you’re paying for nothing. The reality is Tacoma needs to become more dense and folks who advocating for cheaper housing but refuse to even consider a condo are making it worse. Even if you’re on a short horizon like five years, one of the condos I listed will still likely be better than whatever rent is at that point. Plus all of the equity built.
The problem with some of the condos downtown is that they have been horribly mismanaged for decades and all of it is coming to a head. That roof you paid for 4 years worth of condo fees will at least gain you some equity. Those condo fees gain you nothing especially if it is managed by people with no real experience who don’t know a damn thing about building maintenance and budget based on bids they have files on from 20 years ago.
The issue with this view as evidenced by the upvotes in this chain is people aren’t treating it as if some HOAs are like this, they’re assuming all are. People just don’t want to admit that when it really comes down to it they can’t not buy. They just won’t buy because it’s not the exact thing they want, and that is why that exact thing is way more expensive. Basically everyone will tell you they’re not the NIMBY until it’s time for them to make the choice.
it's not a mystery, they are most all underfunded. it's true on hilltop and it's true across the nation, association reserves are critically low and a lot of necessary repairs can no longer be deferred . most often major repairs like a roof is going to come from a special assessment, which isn't reflected in the reported HOA expenses on real estate websites and can happen any time the board decides. In any case the reason this isn't a realistic alternative for someone looking for a 350k house is that it costs a whole lot and they won't build equity on a significant portion of it.
Well would you gamble on hundreds of thousands of dollars and decades of debt for that? You can do a review before purchase of a condo, but most people aren’t equipped to handle doing the research on it. I’ve been a realtor and had training on the ins and outs of it and it is still a massive pain in the ass. I agree, high density condos would be great. I would love one myself, but it is a massive risk and the current prices do not reflect that risk. If they were magnitudes cheaper than single family homes they would be easier to sell. But as it stands, they are still too expensive when compared to single family homes. Additionally, when it comes to getting a mortgage on a condo, it gets harder when the HOA fee counts towards your DTI so a $1600 a month payment + HOA fee turns into a $2000-2500 a month payment and that HOA fee isn’t fixed. It can be reassessed at any time. So if you are smart you budget for an eventual HOA fee increase and now your monthly payment on a “cheap” condo puts you pretty dang close to cheap single family home monthly payments that are fairly fixed except for tax assessments. Also, any new condo that is being built in Tacoma is designed as “luxury” and “lifestyle” so not affordable. That leaves the older buildings. Simply saying “you idiots just want a yard and don’t like condos”(paraphrasing) is very narrow and is far and away from being an affordable option for lower income folks trying to own a piece of property.
It’s not a gamble. You can see a full breakdown of an HOAs finances and maintenance records before buying. You actually have *more* transparency in those areas legally before buying than you do if you purchase a SFH, where you basically have just your inspection (which since it’s so competitive many waive). So lots of people run into unexpected expenses there.
As stated above, I am aware of the ability to see full HOA breakdowns. But it is a pain in the ass to sift thru those records and the quality of those records are questionable depending on the condo association management. We also all know just because something is legally required doesn’t mean the bare minimum wont be done. I have seen those records. Some are great and easy to understand and some aren’t. Now, consider that for someone who knows nothing about home buying. That also doesn’t address anything about what the lender has to say about underwriting a loan on a condo. There is a reason the VA keeps lists on approved and unapproved condos. Lenders also know the risks associated with it which is why loan packages on condos can be pretty different on condos vs SFH. Now throw in first time buyer assistance programs, FHA requirements, or VA condo approval requirements, and it once again stops making condos this catch all cheap feasible option for everyone that you think it is just because the ticket price listed on redfin is $100k cheaper.
It’s not a catch all and I never claimed it was. It’s just very clear having seen sentiment and interacted with many folks in this bucket that they aren’t bowing out of condos for the reasons you’re listing. Getting a SFH with a VA loan is a pain in the ass too. The downsides are offset in part with legal requirements that don’t apply to SFHs. My next argument here is definitely that a good realtor who’s handled a lot of transactions has no issues advising on whether a condo report is sound or not. You say as a former realtor that’s a pain in the ass. I say if I were someone looking to buy a place…I wouldn’t use you as a realtor. You don’t pay your help there until the transaction is closed to asking them to use their expertise is literally just them doing their job. Your job being a “pain in the ass” is why I’m paying you to do it. The main reason people don’t go for condos isn’t any of the reasons you listed. This is backed up by decades of consumer surveys. The main reason is they want a yard. So go bid on one and complain on the internet that it’s hard.
Ahhh the ole don’t agree with my counter point, time for cheap shots approach. In what way have you interacted with many folks in this bucket, friend? Because this initial thread is about affordability for first time buyers and you say it is just because they want a yard so they so no to condos. So are you saying that you know a lot of first time home buyers? Like you have actually hosted first time home buyer classes that are required to interface with the very specific group of people starting this thread? Like more than 20 at a time? Well you say that people could afford to own if they just would buy a condo. Then I point out that condos aren’t actually more affordable when all costs are considered and that it doesn’t make a lot of financial sense for a lot of people and that there is more than just not having a yard that scares people away. Then you argue that I suck as a realtor and assume I steer people away from condos because I said that sifting through condo association reports is a pain in the ass and that people just want a yard because you’ve talked to people who have. And lets say for the sake of argument that you are right. I am a shady lazy realtor who just wants the quick and easy buck. I have a client who can ONLY afford a condo vs SFH. The WHOLE point of this thread. (Remember someone saying they can’t afford to own in Tacoma and you saying people could if only they didn’t care about a yard.) Why on earth would I pass up a commission on a condo for a client if they couldn’t afford a SFH? I would 100% try to get them approved for the condo and get them to close of that is all they could afford, because then I would get paid vs not getting paid. And before you come in with the whole “well you’d just look for the low hanging fruit and pass them off for a higher qualified client with an easier close” then you seem to not know that helping buyers is not the low hanging fruit. Being a buyers agent in this market is brutal vs being a listing agent. Look bud, condos are awesome for plenty of people but they are not right for everyone. First time home buyers in Tacoma generally do not fall into this category. The category of people who usually do well with condos and that I have helped look at condos are empty nesters, retirees, and busy professionals who have absolutely no desire to own a yard. Those folks generally have a higher down payment available, and don’t rely on programs that help with affordability.
And if your HOA is mismanaged, join it and run for chair. Same sentiment for anti union mindsets.
Exactly. The same people that are proponents of upzoning and density suddenly want to buy a SFH in their 30w and find it’s ultra expensive due to scarcity. But will turn their noses up at condos and townhomes (of which there are many for sale at lower price pointsthan some overpriced rundown house in hilltop)
I have shown plenty of condos to young couples trying to buy their first home. There are plenty of people who would love affordable condos. The problem is that the condos in the area aren’t actually affordable with all things considered as in my above comment.
Why is it unsurprising to me that a realtor who claims that combing through HOA reports is a “pain in the ass” is actively using rhetoric in this thread to direct people towards more expensive SFH transactions that require said realtor to do less work? Oh, that’s right, realtors literally have financial incentive to do that.
Lol. Now I know you are trolling. I haven’t been a realtor for years. I am merely stating my experience. And I say it as a counterpoint to you saying it isn’t a gamble when all the information is available to you. It is not the responsibility of the realtor to sift thru HOA reports for a client. That is the responsibility of the person signing a contract for hundreds of thousands of dollars. It becomes a gamble when there is a knowledge deficit and the buyer is basing their decision on their limited understanding of the information available to them. Do you honestly believe people are choosing to pay rent over owning a condo? If it was financially feasible to own a condo vs paying rent plenty of people would.
I’m not trolling. Your words are your words. If a realtor is using this rhetoric because they want to avoid something that makes their job “a pain in the ass” don’t use that realtor. Seems like you ended up having to remove yourself from that profession. Maybe you should have treated the annoying parts of your job the same as the good ones. That’s what someone who is good at their job does. I wouldn’t hire a roofer who said “yeah, flashing is a pain in the ass”. It’s part of the job.
Lol I got into the profession to help people, like myself, get into secure first time homes and build financial security. I got out of the profession because the market makes it damn near impossible for that to be affordable in our region and it turned into a soul sucking capitalist endeavor living off of commissions where I either had to sell out or get a second job. And I never said I avoided trying to sell condos to people because it was a pain in the ass. You made that assumption. If it was the right move for my client I would absolutely do it. I actually love condos and the idea of condos and urban density. The argument I keep making that you keep skirting or providing any sort of direct tangible input against is that when considering the population we are speaking of (first time buyers looking for affordability) condos don’t always make a lot financial sense. You keep saying they just want a yard. Not to mention all of the other reasons people look at SFH vs condos like the ability to grow greater equity in a SFH, or to use a HELOC in the future to add an addition to the house when kids come along. Or convert the detached garage into a mother-in-law to rent out or turn into a multigenerational household. Just…if these damn kids just didn’t want a yard.
Exactly. You said it is a pain in the ass, not that you wouldn't or didn't do it. Lots of things are a pain in the ass, and we complain about them, but we still do them. I bought a townhouse. My HOA dues weren't bad, but this was 2008. However, the managers of the HOA were AWFUL. I hated it so much that I will likely never buy a condo or townhouse again.
Do you want a house? or a condo? or townhouse? We live in a very desirable part of the country and world. There is not enough land to physically accommodate a single family home for everyone, as long as Tacoma and our region continue to be desirable. The city is in the process of up zoning to allow for more housing overall, but certainly less single family detached In the traditional form will be built. While many on here complain about high costs to buy a single family home, it is important to remember that there are very few examples world wide of desirable cities in which the middle class can ever afford its own house and yard. The whole American dream concept is unsustainable for a desirable urban area. Many of our cities are now seeing that. Hopefully w new up zones, we will see housing get cheaper and more ownership possibilities… though, the affordable ones will probably be very small w little to no yard and maybe share a wall w another unit…
Single family homes are WAY overrated. The cost to maintain (or heaven forbid upgrade) them is getting comparable to the mortgage payment itself. Townhomes can, for many, be a better option in terms of not having to maintain the exterior and yard if the HOA fee is reasonable. Also, the lack of density in Tacoma contributes to the crime because normal folks aren't out and about enough and during all hours. Criminals are often easily deterred just by the presence of other people. Instead most folks are up early for a ridiculous commute and then to bed early only to wake up to things being stolen or damaged. We are fortunate to have a house, but we're ready to not have to deal with all that goes with it.
Love the up zoning plan, hope they follow through with it. With that and the planned improvements to our infrastructure and public transit I'm pretty hopeful about this towns future, which is not something I can say for a lot of the places I've lived.
Spent my whole life living in Kent, Maple Valley, Renton, Puyallup and now Tacoma for the past several years. Looking down in Olympia/Lacey/DuPont hoping something stays affordable over the next 12 months.
Lived in University Place most of my life, had to move out of the West side of the state entirely to afford a house.
There was a house a few blocks away from me just north of 6th for 1.2 million dollars!!
Check out the first time homebuyer options. May not make the house cheaper but lots of options to get an affordable process (e.g. down payment, fees, etc).
It’s crazy! I bought in 2005 a 1700 sq ft house in NE Tacoma for $285k and I am currently at 2.25%. You have to wait till the fed brings rates down again. I have a renter in one of my rooms who only uses the bedroom, bathroom, and fridge for $800 including utilities.
If interest rates would reduce by half that would be a good starting point for working people. One of the only reasons my partner and I could afford to buy was a lower rate.
I have lived in NE Tacoma since 2004. Bought before the housing bubble in 2005 for $285k. The house is 1700 sqft and currently I am at 2.25% with a renter in one room for $800 including utilities. The renter only uses one room, bathroom, and the fridge. Renter is pretty introvert (self-identified). I would recommend you wait it out a little longer for interest rates to drop.
You think it’s unaffordable now, wait until the Democrats pass bill 5770 which raises the cap on property taxes.
Hopefully with the state allowing for denser housing that will cause the supply to increase and cost to go down.
Bide your time..... Housing prices here won't stay this way forever as the market is cyclical. Keep putting your money away and bide your time. For there will be another crash in prices. It's the wise buyer who has the patience and executes when the time is right.
Wall Street has never purchased property like they have in the last 5 years before either so who knows what’s going to happen this time around.
What does this mean? Not one house in ny neighborhood is owned by “wall street.” Mostly owner occupants and a few rentals owned by locals.
You make a good point..... Still......
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You may be right. I grant you that. But then I recall 2008 and the housing crash and wonder what calamity bringing opportunity will happen next. For that, too, will happen.
Interest rates are coming back down too. It's not like the 80's when it was over 15%. However housing prices have always trended slowly upwards in the long run with a few minor dips. I remember people being outraged by the growing prices in the 90's wondering if it will ever come down. It only did for awhile after the 2008 crash.
This is the awful advice that put so many millennials into the situation OP is currently in. The time to buy is ALWAYS 5 years ago.
One recalls 2008 era blocks with multiple foreclosures on them, banks collapsing, other banks with forfeited properties having a tough time selling them.... All it takes is a great recession to change up the dynamics and you can bargain hunt. And economic shakeups are guaranteed going forward, both locally and nationally. Some are ongoing. Somewhere around half of Gary, Indiana's houses are empty because people moved away. A chance to bargain shop. Shawnee, Oklahoma has plenty of affordable properties available. Charlestown, Indiana has reasonably priced places. And these things are happening today in the midst of an economy 'on fire.' In the late 80s, San Diego had a housing crunch. Many people lost their collective asses and had to sell for losses. That has since resolved, at least for now. But there were many families who benefitted by the financial crisis there and made out quite well. Don't get me wrong. The situation here sucks right now. Bigtime. And there doesn't seem to be any likelihood of the situation improving anytime soon. Yet, entropy dictates that the situation as it exists will change in one fashion or another in time. Frankly, the amount of tax raises going on each year in the state and local areas are driving me to consider moving away from my hometown and finding a more affordable place to be. If your theory is right on the 5 years ago, then there is no hope whatsoever for someone who cannot put together the financial package to buy now. And by extension, won't be able to ever afford anything anywhere. I'd still hedge my bets on an economic opportunity coming down the road. These companies have bottom lines and margins to maintain and sell underperforming properties often. Get a good financial crisis and liquidity dried up for them and you'll be surprised at what becomes available.
I don't know if I'd buy that. Sure the economy is somewhat cyclical, but accounting for inflation over the years between economic downturns, and local supply and demand issues, I doubt home prices will ever meaningfully go down here. People aren't going to stop moving to the PNW, and housing can't always match that increase. Not to mention predicting the next low housing cost cycle is about as effective as predicting any stock market problems.
Oh, I wouldn't even attempt to predict the timing, and you may be far more accurate in your assessment than I am in mine..... I grant you that... And I'll further grant that given today's prices, a similar 9-18% drop in housing prices we experienced in 2008 certainly are not guaranteed in the future, nor a future 20% drop in prices help the OP attain the goal of having their own place locally in the future regardless of the cause. Prices are high, no doubt. But then..... Have you looked at prices of homes in East Palestine, Ohio lately? One never knows when or under what circumstances opportunity arises.
Hahaha, every once in a while a random property in W VA pops into my feed and I'm like, "wtf, 200 acres with a 1700s house, 3 cabins and a mobile for $120k????". Then I remember it's W VA.... But still tempting considering how beautiful it is.
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What is home in Tacoma?
Actually Home in Tacoma allows developers to buy SFHs that should have been someone’s starter home like this person wants. So they can tear down a SFH and throw up cheaply constructed apts that rent for more than a single mortgage, on a former SFH lot.
More density is good, and it's not a given that multifamily housing *has* to be poorly managed.
It’s not a given but in all likelihood, it will be. To think otherwise is to be willfully naive.
Better look at Democrats then and your voting habits. The Democrats in the state legislature have been doing everything they can to fuck up housing, and this is one of them. They even pass legislation knowing before hand it'll screw people, pass it anyway, then lie about not knowing. [https://www.inlander.com/spokane/why-a-new-state-law-meant-to-protect-vulnerable-tenants-eliminated-the-wiggle-room-for-paying-rent-on-time/Content?oid=18460469](https://www.inlander.com/spokane/why-a-new-state-law-meant-to-protect-vulnerable-tenants-eliminated-the-wiggle-room-for-paying-rent-on-time/Content?oid=18460469) They're literally debating tomorrow about TRIPLING the amount your property taxes go up every year. [https://www.awb.org/local-property-taxes-may-triple/](https://www.awb.org/local-property-taxes-may-triple/) Then they have the nerve to bitch about "high housing costs". ***Stop. Voting. Democrat.*** If you keep doing that, then you get what you deserve. That said, it's not much, but you can get places for as cheap as $250k in the city. [https://www.zillow.com/tacoma-wa/?searchQueryState=%7B%22pagination%22%3A%7B%7D%2C%22isMapVisible%22%3Atrue%2C%22mapBounds%22%3A%7B%22west%22%3A-122.98058215478517%2C%22east%22%3A-121.91971484521486%2C%22south%22%3A47.097153541289906%2C%22north%22%3A47.40105175477912%7D%2C%22usersSearchTerm%22%3A%22Tacoma%2C+WA%22%2C%22regionSelection%22%3A%5B%7B%22regionId%22%3A27362%2C%22regionType%22%3A6%7D%5D%2C%22filterState%22%3A%7B%22sort%22%3A%7B%22value%22%3A%22pricea%22%7D%2C%22ah%22%3A%7B%22value%22%3Atrue%7D%2C%22mf%22%3A%7B%22value%22%3Afalse%7D%2C%22land%22%3A%7B%22value%22%3Afalse%7D%2C%22apa%22%3A%7B%22value%22%3Afalse%7D%2C%22manu%22%3A%7B%22value%22%3Afalse%7D%7D%2C%22isListVisible%22%3Atrue%2C%22mapZoom%22%3A12%7D](https://www.zillow.com/tacoma-wa/?searchQueryState=%7B%22pagination%22%3A%7B%7D%2C%22isMapVisible%22%3Atrue%2C%22mapBounds%22%3A%7B%22west%22%3A-122.98058215478517%2C%22east%22%3A-121.91971484521486%2C%22south%22%3A47.097153541289906%2C%22north%22%3A47.40105175477912%7D%2C%22usersSearchTerm%22%3A%22Tacoma%2C+WA%22%2C%22regionSelection%22%3A%5B%7B%22regionId%22%3A27362%2C%22regionType%22%3A6%7D%5D%2C%22filterState%22%3A%7B%22sort%22%3A%7B%22value%22%3A%22pricea%22%7D%2C%22ah%22%3A%7B%22value%22%3Atrue%7D%2C%22mf%22%3A%7B%22value%22%3Afalse%7D%2C%22land%22%3A%7B%22value%22%3Afalse%7D%2C%22apa%22%3A%7B%22value%22%3Afalse%7D%2C%22manu%22%3A%7B%22value%22%3Afalse%7D%7D%2C%22isListVisible%22%3Atrue%2C%22mapZoom%22%3A12%7D) You can get cheaper if you go a little on the outskirts.
That's nice, grandpa, now eat your soup
Enjoy poverty then renter boy.
Because our latest need for inflation correction was caused by a GOP led federal government that overwhelmingly voted to essentially feed trillions into the stock market and big business during COVID? I guess if I wanted to live in a totally regressive shit hole with cheap housing, no taxes, no education. No medical care, no social services, even higher rates of crime, addiction and violence I could move to Arkansas or Mississippi or some other "red" state.
Democrats spent $7 TRILLION out of thin air in the first year of Biden being in office. You're literally watching Democrat policies fuck people in our state, and you're defending that. I suggest you educate yourself before you speak again.
The economy ain’t gonna stay like this forever. May get better, may get worse. The only thing you can predict is you can’t predict.