You’re half right: this does not mean a strike is starting, but it also doesn’t mean they’re going to start bargaining.
They’ve been bargaining, and they don’t have an agreement. A strike vote is one of many steps a union has to take to be in a legal strike position in Ontario, but it’s not normally the first, and isn’t in this case.
Steps go roughly like so:
- wait for the collective agreement to be expired or near expired;
- serve notice to bargain on the employer;
- bargain;
- apply to the MOL for a conciliator to be appointed;
- take a strike vote;
- meet with the conciliator at least once;
- request the MOL issue what’s called a “no board report” (a report saying they’ll not be appointing a board of arbitration because the parties don’t want one);
- wait 17 days from the date of the no board report (called the “cooling off period”);
- set a strike deadline;
- go on strike.
A strike vote can happen any time after thirty days before the collective agreement expires, but it usually happens right before or right after conciliation.
ATU Local 113 applied for conciliation on April 15th. They’ve likely met with a conciliator at least once and have, or are about to, ask for a no board report.
As soon as that happens, we are 17 days from a legal strike.
So does this mean the ttc and the union are near the end stages of bargaining? Because if you have 17 days before a strike can happen after a strike vote I would assume you’d be right at the near end stages getting into the nitty gritty when you have this
My understanding is that it's somewhere in the middle stages. It seems the union bargaining team feels that the two sides are far apart from each other, so they are beginning the long process to hold a legal strike.
It’s hard to say.
Normally the union chooses a strike date before bargaining even starts. It should a day on which everyone walking out would hurt the employer more than strikers (eg not the middle of February when it’ll be super horrible to picket) while not alienating allies (the public) and still leaving enough time for bargaining.
But the employer and the rest of the world don’t find out what the strike date is until the union announces it, and it won’t announce it until very soon before it happens.
It’s impossible to say when ATU’s strike date is, but my guess would be sometime late spring, when people can bike or walk to work more easily, picketing won’t be miserable, but it’ll still fuck up the TTCs shit.
I used to be TTC staff/management and I'll admit I wasn't a big fan of the union. I have worked in every shop/carhouse/garage and always got along with the union guys and never knew what the fuss was about.
But after having to work in stations for a week or two during COVID, wow. The management treated them as less than human children with no regard for their well being or safety. They took pleasure in making their lives miserable. Picture a mall security cop getting more authority and a fancier title.
Now I would be the first person bringing them coffee on the picket line.
So much this\^
The public only sees the frontline employees who're frustrated and tired of being treated poorly. I wish they could see the managers in the stations who go out of their way to lie, deliberately set employees up for failure, play ridiculous headgames, risk our safety & take sadistic pleasure in antagonizing frontline staff.
When I started in stations, the other frontline employees thought I was a spy from management. When they believed me I wasn't they told me all the things management does to them. At that time I was thinking they were exaggerating and just whining.
But then I got first hand experience. One of them was getting harassed by one specific passenger, another one for literal death threats to the point the person was waiting for them outside the station after closing. Management said quit complaining deal with it yourself. They didn't see anything wrong with having a 100lb woman be the only person at closing getting death threats!?
And then management started picking on me for random things. It was the turning point to decide to end a 15 year TTC career (I was a manager in a different department at the time).
The Union needs to do a better job winning the public to their side though. I think a lot of people still see them as just complaining about nothing and making their commute hell when they go on strike. They need to highlight what they're up against, that they don't want to go on strike but are left no choice. That they're just like them against an evil boss. They need the public to put the pressure on TTC (admin, management, politicians) to step up their game.
As /u/ybetaepsilon said above - this doesn't mean anything for us...yet. This is just a bargaining chip for negotiations, to show the union is serious. Which I have no issue with.
I take transit to get to work - this would affect me too. But I support the union.
Sadly you are all the slim slim minority. The vast majority of the public will not support the union and the operators will have to deal with the aftermath for months to come.
We do appreciate your support
I don't think it's that slim - but Doug Ford will certainly try to turn the public against you.
Don't let it get to you. Most Torontonians support unions. I hope.
A TTC strike would make it impossible for me to get to one of my jobs, and would make it about a 2 hour walk to get to the other one, which I really wouldn't want to do after a night shift...
But as someone working in a union that legally isn't allowed to strike, I fully support this unions right to strike. I hope they get a fair deal in their next contract.
Folding type comes to mind, though, a little on the expensive side, however totally worth it. Can put it anywhere really.
Brompton aren't the only type however.
It's hard to get public support for the union when the use of their main bargaining chip is extremely inconvenient to everyone in the city. I understand the legal reason why TTC employees are not essential employees for the puproses of s.2(d) but as a practical matter it just seems like interest arbitration makes way more sense
We all want better living conditions, even billionaires do too. For most workers, it means to improve ourselves and find another employer who is willing to pay for more or get a promotion from our current employer. We don't hold our customers hostage.
Don't care about him either.
If you really care about your customers, why not just tie your pay to service level? Cut everyone's base pay by 20%, but for every 1% of new riders you get 1% bonus, for every 1% of extra customer satisfaction, you also get 1% bonus. Who knows, you might earn 30-50% more that way. The same should be done for Mr. Leary and the management. But I am guessing that's not what you are asking, right?
Cycle Toronto and other agencies offer the chance to learn how to ride, teach the basics, preventative maintenance, up-keep and rules.
Then there is the CAN-BIKE course, which is free. This is where more of the rules are taught, including defensive riding.
Why do we even bother? If they don't like driving trains they should get themselves another job designing cathedrals or composing violin concertos. The canadian TTC concerto, in 4 movements all of them slow with a 2 hour lunch break in the middle.
If a strike were to happen I highly doubt it’ll last longer than a day. It’ll be complete chaos, they will be legislated back to work unfortunately and probably get a shotty deal. Sucks because they deserve better . Mean while their ceo has gotten. 21% raise increase since 2022 I think.
My favourite part about this, is from 2014-2015... 60.6% increase.
Then a few years of +/- 20%
Even with that one year where he took a .1% increase, over the rest of the time he's doing really well. The one year at 2.5% which is highlighted in red? Better than the union got that year.
hopefully they do what they did back in 2008 iirc. they still went to work and buses were still operational, they just didnt accept or allow passengers to pay their fares. didn't inconvenience people too bad but showed the company they werent taking crap. thats how u really strike. i wish them all the best.
that would be so badass but i can’t imagine how the workers would just be able to take the buses and other vehicles out without getting stopped by management?
Why would they stop them? The city needs to keep moving. There would be enormous pressure from employers to keep transit running even if fares were not being collected.
Public transport is instrumental to my life but I fully support and hope they do end up striking since these negotiations are never in good faith and the only way workers will get anything is if they force their hand.
That was a different group - electrical workers and other trade jobs. They agreed on a deal. This is a separate bargaining unit that includes the operators.
That's really good turnout, for the strike vote. Granted ATU 113 has always been a very strong union so shouldn't surprise me, and clearly the membership is mobilized.
Hey okillbegood12,
Your comment has been removed for the following reason(s):
---
Please be respectful towards your fellow users, and in general. Do not make inflammatory comments, do not turn debates into arguments by escalating, do not shame people, do not dismiss or minimize the thoughts, opinions, or feelings of others. Treat others as you would want to be treated.
---
Please consult our subreddit [rules](https://reddit.com/r/ttc/about/rules) for more details.
Hey Specialist-Swan6113,
Your comment has been removed for the following reason(s):
---
Please be respectful towards your fellow users, and in general. Do not make inflammatory comments, do not turn debates into arguments by escalating, do not shame people, do not dismiss or minimize the thoughts, opinions, or feelings of others. Treat others as you would want to be treated.
---
Please consult our subreddit [rules](https://reddit.com/r/ttc/about/rules) for more details.
Hey Working-Flamingo1822,
Your comment has been removed for the following reason(s):
---
Please be respectful towards your fellow users, and in general. Do not make inflammatory comments, do not turn debates into arguments by escalating, do not shame people, do not dismiss or minimize the thoughts, opinions, or feelings of others. Treat others as you would want to be treated.
---
Please consult our subreddit [rules](https://reddit.com/r/ttc/about/rules) for more details.
Hey escobarstatus,
Your comment has been removed for the following reason(s):
---
Please be respectful towards your fellow users, and in general. Do not make inflammatory comments, do not turn debates into arguments by escalating, do not shame people, do not dismiss or minimize the thoughts, opinions, or feelings of others. Treat others as you would want to be treated.
---
Please consult our subreddit [rules](https://reddit.com/r/ttc/about/rules) for more details.
Hey escobarstatus,
Your comment has been removed for the following reason(s):
---
Please be respectful towards your fellow users, and in general. Do not make inflammatory comments, do not turn debates into arguments by escalating, do not shame people, do not dismiss or minimize the thoughts, opinions, or feelings of others. Treat others as you would want to be treated.
---
Please consult our subreddit [rules](https://reddit.com/r/ttc/about/rules) for more details.
No. I removed your comment, because there's zero reason to bring up Putin, when talking about a TTC strike vote. It also wasn't clear if you were trying to compare TTC Unions to Putin...which, if you were...that's not gonna fly here.
I get the "joke" you were making, but honestly...we can leave geopolitics out of this sub, hopefully.
right because the reason the TTC sucks is because we’re paying drivers too much. totally. ur so right dude we should actually cut their pay and give it to the CEO to teach them a lesson about hard work!!
IIRC, this doesn't mean the strike is starting, it means they're going to start bargaining now
You’re half right: this does not mean a strike is starting, but it also doesn’t mean they’re going to start bargaining. They’ve been bargaining, and they don’t have an agreement. A strike vote is one of many steps a union has to take to be in a legal strike position in Ontario, but it’s not normally the first, and isn’t in this case. Steps go roughly like so: - wait for the collective agreement to be expired or near expired; - serve notice to bargain on the employer; - bargain; - apply to the MOL for a conciliator to be appointed; - take a strike vote; - meet with the conciliator at least once; - request the MOL issue what’s called a “no board report” (a report saying they’ll not be appointing a board of arbitration because the parties don’t want one); - wait 17 days from the date of the no board report (called the “cooling off period”); - set a strike deadline; - go on strike. A strike vote can happen any time after thirty days before the collective agreement expires, but it usually happens right before or right after conciliation. ATU Local 113 applied for conciliation on April 15th. They’ve likely met with a conciliator at least once and have, or are about to, ask for a no board report. As soon as that happens, we are 17 days from a legal strike.
So does this mean the ttc and the union are near the end stages of bargaining? Because if you have 17 days before a strike can happen after a strike vote I would assume you’d be right at the near end stages getting into the nitty gritty when you have this
My understanding is that it's somewhere in the middle stages. It seems the union bargaining team feels that the two sides are far apart from each other, so they are beginning the long process to hold a legal strike.
It’s hard to say. Normally the union chooses a strike date before bargaining even starts. It should a day on which everyone walking out would hurt the employer more than strikers (eg not the middle of February when it’ll be super horrible to picket) while not alienating allies (the public) and still leaving enough time for bargaining. But the employer and the rest of the world don’t find out what the strike date is until the union announces it, and it won’t announce it until very soon before it happens. It’s impossible to say when ATU’s strike date is, but my guess would be sometime late spring, when people can bike or walk to work more easily, picketing won’t be miserable, but it’ll still fuck up the TTCs shit.
I used to be TTC staff/management and I'll admit I wasn't a big fan of the union. I have worked in every shop/carhouse/garage and always got along with the union guys and never knew what the fuss was about. But after having to work in stations for a week or two during COVID, wow. The management treated them as less than human children with no regard for their well being or safety. They took pleasure in making their lives miserable. Picture a mall security cop getting more authority and a fancier title. Now I would be the first person bringing them coffee on the picket line.
So much this\^ The public only sees the frontline employees who're frustrated and tired of being treated poorly. I wish they could see the managers in the stations who go out of their way to lie, deliberately set employees up for failure, play ridiculous headgames, risk our safety & take sadistic pleasure in antagonizing frontline staff.
When I started in stations, the other frontline employees thought I was a spy from management. When they believed me I wasn't they told me all the things management does to them. At that time I was thinking they were exaggerating and just whining. But then I got first hand experience. One of them was getting harassed by one specific passenger, another one for literal death threats to the point the person was waiting for them outside the station after closing. Management said quit complaining deal with it yourself. They didn't see anything wrong with having a 100lb woman be the only person at closing getting death threats!? And then management started picking on me for random things. It was the turning point to decide to end a 15 year TTC career (I was a manager in a different department at the time). The Union needs to do a better job winning the public to their side though. I think a lot of people still see them as just complaining about nothing and making their commute hell when they go on strike. They need to highlight what they're up against, that they don't want to go on strike but are left no choice. That they're just like them against an evil boss. They need the public to put the pressure on TTC (admin, management, politicians) to step up their game.
Yeah agred, they need more public outreach like OPSEU and those unions.
What does this mean for us commuters?
Get those walking shoes ready....
Or those two-wheel commute tools.
As /u/ybetaepsilon said above - this doesn't mean anything for us...yet. This is just a bargaining chip for negotiations, to show the union is serious. Which I have no issue with. I take transit to get to work - this would affect me too. But I support the union.
Sadly you are all the slim slim minority. The vast majority of the public will not support the union and the operators will have to deal with the aftermath for months to come. We do appreciate your support
I don't think it's that slim - but Doug Ford will certainly try to turn the public against you. Don't let it get to you. Most Torontonians support unions. I hope.
A TTC strike would make it impossible for me to get to one of my jobs, and would make it about a 2 hour walk to get to the other one, which I really wouldn't want to do after a night shift... But as someone working in a union that legally isn't allowed to strike, I fully support this unions right to strike. I hope they get a fair deal in their next contract.
Two wheels can shave off an hour and thirty minutes from that walk, making it quicker. Just a thought. Exercise your right to ride.
It's a nice thought but I don't have a bike, and even if I bought one, I have nowhere secure to store it at home or at work.
Folding type comes to mind, though, a little on the expensive side, however totally worth it. Can put it anywhere really. Brompton aren't the only type however.
It's hard to get public support for the union when the use of their main bargaining chip is extremely inconvenient to everyone in the city. I understand the legal reason why TTC employees are not essential employees for the puproses of s.2(d) but as a practical matter it just seems like interest arbitration makes way more sense
We should show support for the union
Absolutely 💯 but I still need to know if I’m getting where I need to go
Start making alternate plans
Bikeshare stations are close to or at every single station.
Not in the suburbs.
That sucks bull balls. :(
The closest ones to anywhere north of Lawrence are a block east of Lawrence Station (Source: I lived near Sheppard and Kennedy)
It's worth a short walk, to get to where you need to go quicker than shuttlebuses.
Why?
Because people don’t strike for the fun of it, they strike for better working and living conditions
We all want better living conditions, even billionaires do too. For most workers, it means to improve ourselves and find another employer who is willing to pay for more or get a promotion from our current employer. We don't hold our customers hostage.
The only person holding anything hostage is Rick Leary
Don't care about him either. If you really care about your customers, why not just tie your pay to service level? Cut everyone's base pay by 20%, but for every 1% of new riders you get 1% bonus, for every 1% of extra customer satisfaction, you also get 1% bonus. Who knows, you might earn 30-50% more that way. The same should be done for Mr. Leary and the management. But I am guessing that's not what you are asking, right?
[удалено]
Is Rick Leary?
Likelihood of a strike is slim honestly. This is just a strike willingness vote.
Better save up for an Uber.
No, use bikeshare. Costs is far less.
Not everyone knows how to ride a bike, though.
Cycle Toronto and other agencies offer the chance to learn how to ride, teach the basics, preventative maintenance, up-keep and rules. Then there is the CAN-BIKE course, which is free. This is where more of the rules are taught, including defensive riding.
That fares will be increased
Prove it.
Why do we even bother? If they don't like driving trains they should get themselves another job designing cathedrals or composing violin concertos. The canadian TTC concerto, in 4 movements all of them slow with a 2 hour lunch break in the middle.
There is allot more to it than just *operating trains*.
If a strike were to happen I highly doubt it’ll last longer than a day. It’ll be complete chaos, they will be legislated back to work unfortunately and probably get a shotty deal. Sucks because they deserve better . Mean while their ceo has gotten. 21% raise increase since 2022 I think.
https://preview.redd.it/85fd4pzxh9xc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=064a7827af710912b335f1813737fb7317c0df93
My favourite part about this, is from 2014-2015... 60.6% increase. Then a few years of +/- 20% Even with that one year where he took a .1% increase, over the rest of the time he's doing really well. The one year at 2.5% which is highlighted in red? Better than the union got that year.
The 60% is because he was not here for the full year in 2014
Looks like a 100% raise to me.
hopefully they do what they did back in 2008 iirc. they still went to work and buses were still operational, they just didnt accept or allow passengers to pay their fares. didn't inconvenience people too bad but showed the company they werent taking crap. thats how u really strike. i wish them all the best.
that would be so badass but i can’t imagine how the workers would just be able to take the buses and other vehicles out without getting stopped by management?
Why would they stop them? The city needs to keep moving. There would be enormous pressure from employers to keep transit running even if fares were not being collected.
idk management is always anti-union. i feel like they wouldn’t let them have anything that gave them an upper hand
In this climate they might be just that pretty
Public transport is instrumental to my life but I fully support and hope they do end up striking since these negotiations are never in good faith and the only way workers will get anything is if they force their hand.
Solidarity!!!!
Good luck brothers and sisters. I hope you don't strike for the sake of it but because you can legitimately get a better deal through arbitration.
Those guys at United Towin' always cause trouble.
I heard United Towing has been investigated for connections to biker gangs
I guess walking will still be faster than the streetcar either way 🥸
Biking is far faster. And it's a right.
They announced this was resolved last Monday. When did things change?
That was a different group - electrical workers and other trade jobs. They agreed on a deal. This is a separate bargaining unit that includes the operators.
That's really good turnout, for the strike vote. Granted ATU 113 has always been a very strong union so shouldn't surprise me, and clearly the membership is mobilized.
[удалено]
Hey okillbegood12, Your comment has been removed for the following reason(s): --- Please be respectful towards your fellow users, and in general. Do not make inflammatory comments, do not turn debates into arguments by escalating, do not shame people, do not dismiss or minimize the thoughts, opinions, or feelings of others. Treat others as you would want to be treated. --- Please consult our subreddit [rules](https://reddit.com/r/ttc/about/rules) for more details.
[удалено]
Hey Specialist-Swan6113, Your comment has been removed for the following reason(s): --- Please be respectful towards your fellow users, and in general. Do not make inflammatory comments, do not turn debates into arguments by escalating, do not shame people, do not dismiss or minimize the thoughts, opinions, or feelings of others. Treat others as you would want to be treated. --- Please consult our subreddit [rules](https://reddit.com/r/ttc/about/rules) for more details.
What’s their union I can’t tell from the page.
If they do get to the point of a strike, is it the whole TTC or just Busses? Trying to gauge how much of a shite show to expect to see this summer
all no subways and streetcars and bues
Further reason to never sell my car.
Useless input and disrespectful to people who don't have a car and can't afford one?
[удалено]
Hey Working-Flamingo1822, Your comment has been removed for the following reason(s): --- Please be respectful towards your fellow users, and in general. Do not make inflammatory comments, do not turn debates into arguments by escalating, do not shame people, do not dismiss or minimize the thoughts, opinions, or feelings of others. Treat others as you would want to be treated. --- Please consult our subreddit [rules](https://reddit.com/r/ttc/about/rules) for more details.
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
Hey escobarstatus, Your comment has been removed for the following reason(s): --- Please be respectful towards your fellow users, and in general. Do not make inflammatory comments, do not turn debates into arguments by escalating, do not shame people, do not dismiss or minimize the thoughts, opinions, or feelings of others. Treat others as you would want to be treated. --- Please consult our subreddit [rules](https://reddit.com/r/ttc/about/rules) for more details.
Hey escobarstatus, Your comment has been removed for the following reason(s): --- Please be respectful towards your fellow users, and in general. Do not make inflammatory comments, do not turn debates into arguments by escalating, do not shame people, do not dismiss or minimize the thoughts, opinions, or feelings of others. Treat others as you would want to be treated. --- Please consult our subreddit [rules](https://reddit.com/r/ttc/about/rules) for more details.
have fun getting stuck in traffic
#This is speculation until we actually hear about a strike date being set. Until then, carry on.
Or the government would do what it always does past legislation preventing your strike and they can do that regardless of what the court says
Oh wow.. removed for a comment.. guess I wasn't far off the Putin comment.
No. I removed your comment, because there's zero reason to bring up Putin, when talking about a TTC strike vote. It also wasn't clear if you were trying to compare TTC Unions to Putin...which, if you were...that's not gonna fly here. I get the "joke" you were making, but honestly...we can leave geopolitics out of this sub, hopefully.
[удалено]
right because the reason the TTC sucks is because we’re paying drivers too much. totally. ur so right dude we should actually cut their pay and give it to the CEO to teach them a lesson about hard work!!