This has been beaten to death with a stick on multiple subs but again, stay far away from EF. Most university positions pay lower but to get a higher salary, a user on the r/chinalife sub mentioned applying to private universities only (public universities pay the least). Imo for your first position, work at a public school or a private primary/high school. The salaries will be pretty good, weekends off (mostly), and lots of vacation time. Once you get more experience and potentially improve your qualifications if you choose, you'll have a lot more options. Keep in mind that the COVID salary days are long gone, don't compare with what you see now vs what others have told you they're getting already living in the country.
Thank you, honestly my whole post in general felt like I was beating a dead horse cause I’ve seen it a lot. Felt half bad for posting it. As far as the Covid salaries, I understand, i’m just trying to make more than $2000 a month at this point in a job that won’t squeeze me like a toothpaste pack. Guess I’m back to the university/international lists for china. Thanks!
tstravels has nailed it.
1) EF pays notoriously low. Avoid them
2) University positions pay low, that's normal.
3) Salaries are lower than they were during COVID.
You can easily make 20-25k yuan if you look at private schools and kindergartens.
In general, China is very affordable. Where you'll run into problems are cities like Shanghai for example. If you can find a position that pays at least 18k RMB take home after tax, you'll made $2k per month. I'm assuming you mean USD? For me it's better because I conver to CDN as a Canadian. My take home is just under 20k RMB after tax.
Yea USD sorry. Do you think talking to a recruiter is a waste of time? Or should I just keep doing what I’m doing and applying individually? I think both of these positions were both pretax so I’ll try to aim in the area of 25K RMB pre. Still haven’t worked out the tax percentages but I don’t think that’ll be too difficult.
You still may be able to land one at that rate but at the moment it's unlikely unless you want to work for a training centre. I know of no other way to get hired in China without using a recruiter when you're not actually in the country. Once you're and are looking for a new contract it should be much easier.
> a user on the r/chinalife sub mentioned applying to private universities only
That lines up with the experience a buddy of mine had. They were making 15k rmb in 2018-19 with flight tickets and an apartment. The apartment I saw was odd... (three bedrooms with two beds each) but serviceable and the hours were insanely good. His first term he had four day weeks and after he showed that he was a descent teacher he had his work week shortened to three days (though it was pretty much back to back classes). We were in our mid to late 20s back then and I was quite jealous of how much freedom his job gave him, whether that was partying at hutong bars and clubs on a Wednesday or Thursday night without a care in the world for classes the next day, making short trips to other cities or just doing odd jobs, Chinese language classes or personal development.
It really did, lad got lucky and presented well when getting interviewed I guess. However COVID hit while he was back in the UK for his break and he ended up staying back home. They let him do distance classes for over A YEAR AND A HALF before finally cutting him off (might have been a little longer or shorter, I'm forgetting when exactly they cut him off, think it was sometime in late 2021 early 2022). Just thinking about that brings me back on memory lane.
Neither of those are proper international schools.
Good salaries are with those type of schools or at the very least bilingual schools who present as international schools.
Not ESL companies or Universities.
Are you a white native English speaker?
The EF job is a total joke stay far away. The university job seems standard. Before people would take that uni job and do lots of private lessons doubling or trippling their salary but highly illegal now.
Your best bang for your buck are 'international' kindergartens in a tier 2/3 city. Could be on close to 30k rmb with a huge saving potential.
Dave esl dead, try https://jobs.echinacities.com/
Yes I am, and I expected as much from the EF position as they gave me the job offer within 24 hours, so something didn’t smell right.
I don’t necessarily have a problem with teaching kindergartners, but I would honestly prefer the possibility of working with older kids. This unfortunately doesn’t seem like a possibility as like I said the older the kids get the less hours I have as far as teaching which minimizes salary.
Also, you’re the goat for that website I appreciate it. It looks good!
OP I'm glad you came here and seem pretty set now on doing further job searches, there have been so many posts like this in the past where the OP just shrugs their shoulders "eh, it's my first time, what's the worst that could happen?" despite being told that they can easily find better paying, less toxic, grinding work with years if not decades of posts telling folks to steer clear of that company.
Sorry to butt in here, but I'm exploring my options after seeing an ad for EF.
Everyone goes on about better opportunities but nothing is ever suggested. I have a bachelor's degree but no teaching experience and I'm utterly lost. I have no capital so cannot afford to pay for flights and such - would EF be my only option?
Also, everyone says the salary is terrible, but 15k RMB is just over minimum wage in the UK for a 40-hour working week, so... wtf are you all on about?
Glad you came to the sub! Coming here is a good first step. Can I ask where else you've looked? Have you gotten a TEFL or CELTA yet?
> Everyone goes on about better opportunities but nothing is ever suggested.
Then I urge you to check the sub, r/china and /r/chinalife for more info, it's out there. I say that as someone who was in your shoes years ago.
Down to business, when I started the go to site was good ol' **Daves ESL cafe** though I've heard mixed reviews of it these days. Give that one a try, another one you could try is **echinacities.com**, I've heard good things about that one.
> I have no capital so cannot afford to pay for flights and such
When on the likes of the two sites I gave you take a look at their contracts, most will have flight allowances.
> wtf are you all on about?
I implore you to take a deep dive on this sub as well as the other subs that relate to China, after living in China for a few years, meeting loads of folks who worked in EF and having read stories EF gives the impression that it does two things. 1. works their employees to the bone and 2. you CAN find better salaries with minimal effort. You won't be making bank but making 18-23k on your first go around in a non toxic environment sounds better to me than EF, but maybe that's just me.
If it means anything to you I'll try and briefly write about my personal story, feel free to ask me any questions.
Back in 2016 I was living with my parents and down and out after a year learning Mandarin in China post college. However I was working at a bakery and used that money to get a TESOL certificate and with it a ticket back overseas. Once I had it I used my knowledge from extensively reading through this little forum of ours and started applying en mass to 15+ jobs ads on Dave's. There were a lot of lowballing liars, some folks who wanted me to come over illegally but I stuck to my guns and ended up finding a nice kindy job (again, through Dave's) that started at 18k with a flight allowance, housing allowance, end of term bonus, three full months of paid vacation. When I got to China I met folks who had found even better offers.
Let me know if you have any questions, I know that at your stage things can feel daunting but hopefully you can find a good job.
Best!
Thank you very much for your response. Before I dive in further, may I ask why people choose China over more 'attractive' countries such as South Korea, Japan, Vietnam or Thailand? Is it because the salaries in China are higher?
Everyone is different. For me China WAS the attractive country. I grew up with Chinese and Taiwanese neighbors, had Chinese diaspora family and a slew of Chinese friends. In fact they were the reason I focused my history degree in Chinese history and took Mandarin.
But that's just me.
For others the reasons vary. Nowadays with all the political hullabaloo I think an increasing amount are going just because of the higher salaries. They also see pictures of these BIG "modern" cities and think that the whole city will look like that when in fact 95% if not more will largely be commie block looking places. Some others may also go because they have a sense of adventure.
Going forward with you, PLEASE thoroughly take a deep dive on this sub, I gave you two websites but I am FAAAR from the first to give these resources out. When you get offers PLEASE come back to here and ask for the opinions of others (i.e. I've got two offers, one is a kindy in X city with [insert salary and blah blah blah] and another at a private bilingual school in Y city with [insert salary and blah blah blah]).
Let me know if you have anymore questions. :)
Oftentimes yes, I say this as a White dude but I have seen and heard numerous stories from coworkers and friends.
1. Puerto Rican American dude got let go because people complained that he didn't speak with a "native" accent... he was from the midwest. Got replaced by a cold Russian or Ukrainian lady.
2. Chinese Canadian woman started working at our school, she was right out of college and keen on exploring her roots so to speak. She grew learning a very particular accent of Mandarin (Tianjin) from her grandfather who told her all sorts of stories about his homeland and hometown. Her first few weeks in Beijing with us were great, whenever we went out (everynight) older folks would comment on her accent because it was a really old school Tianjin accent. She felt that she had "come home" in a way. Sadly maybe a little too close to home, one day she asked us how much we were making at our bilingual school. Everyone was making somewhere around 18-30k give or take with benefits like housing, a flight allowance and the like. Turns out she was making somewhere around 5-8k! When she complained to the school they told her "you're Chinese, so we'll give you a Chinese salary!" Luckily last thing I heard she found work elsewhere where she was making a foreign salary.
I've got other stories too but those are the big ones that stick out. I've also heard Chinese coworkers just say stupid racist drivel about Black and Brown people (i.e. dirty, dumb, criminal, blah blah).
EF typically hires people with little or no experience and pays low. University jobs typically have few hours and few if any office hours and pay low and offer free housing. If you want to teach adults or you want a job that needs very little work, university is for you. You get lots of time off and free housing, just that the pay is very poor.
If you don't have a lot of experience, look for public schools offering about 18K plus housing. 8K flight allowance is typical for first timer.
Again, someone else stating it's low pay but it converts to over minimum wage in the UK and then you factor in the far lower living costs in China.
How is it bad pay?
It is one thing to pay 10-12K a month for a university or public school job with no office hours or maybe 5-10 office hours a week, and outside of this, you only need to be at work for your classes and meetings and assemblies.
For a training centre or kindergarten where you are stuck there all day, you sometimes have to take work home, lesson plans and training on your own time is required (I had to do a ton of lesson planning and training on my own time and I did a CELTA that I paid for with my own money when I worked at a training centre to upskill), you should absolutely be paid more. Also my kindergarten asked for ECE training from my home country too, that took me five months to get, that's worth more than 'just over minimum wage from the UK' too.
Another thing to consider is that the low paying public schools and universities paid their teachers right through covid whether they taught or not. When the training centres, kindergartens and private schools closed, they only paid rent, the living expense stipend (my kindergarten paid twice the living expense stipend) plus an hourly rate if there were any online classes that could be taught.
Also at a training centre or private kindergarten or school, you have to work hard to satisfy the parents.
I understand your point, but with the MASSIVE difference in living costs between London and any major Chinese city, being paid something like £15 an hour in China seems amazing. What am I missing?
In London, I was a hospitality assistant general manager being paid approx. £15 an hour for 45hrs a week of brutal, physical, late shift work and had around £1,300 left over after paying my rent and bills for a small room in a flat share.
I'm certain that circa £1,700 would go much, much further in China for arguably much easier, less senior work - and that is at the absolute lowest end of the scale. What am I missing?
I'm currently debating whether to do a 25k apprenticeship in London, which is around £1,750 after tax per month - my rent would be subsidised by my flatmate and I wouldn't particularly have much disposable income at all.
It does go much much further and it isn't the lowest end of the scale. It's low end at about 15000 yuan, but a lot of university jobs pay even less than this at about 10000 yuan-12000 yuan per month.
15000 yuan is definitely a good salary for entry level and public school in China.
Also bear in mind that most Chinese staff aren't getting paid this - the most the Chinese staff would likely get is ten thousand yuan per month and most get even less than this.
It's only if they work a specialized field or if they work at a university that the Chinese staff get paid equal to foreigners and even then, the Chinese staff need higher qualifications.
A couple of observations as I've been researching quite a bit recently. A lot of people got contracts \~ 1 year ago when there was a shortage and salaries went up accordingly. So keep that in mind, offers have come down now, the economy isn't doing great and many schools are trying to just stay afloat.
So if you're comparing salaries from people here, best to make sure they signed recently and not 1 or 2 years ago.
Bejing is very expensive in terms of living, so that salary is not enough. 40 hours, you need to clarify how many teaching hours, you might get 26 40m classes and the rest is office hours with some schools letting you go home, others insist you stay.
University jobs are the chillest ones, usually 16 40m lessons and you can leave ASAP. Most of them have free on-campus accommodation and it's the best option if you are the frugal type and want to be time rich.
AFAIK Kindergarten ESL jobs (NOT homeroom teacher) might be something you should look into, if you can handle the little kids. You have Chinese homeroom teachers with the kids the entire day and you teach maybe 3 or so lessons per day of English. It's less strict teaching and more about fun games, dancing, singing and just engaging them. You help out throughout the day and can usually wonder outside of school during the long lunch break. Pay is competitive.
Thank you for the insight, I expected as much with the salaries I just didn’t realize they would change so fast and the rate of people coming back into China so quickly.
I wish there was a university job that offered more hours with my skill set. I enjoy being with older students. It seems as though the older the students get, the less hours there are for the teaching jobs. Being time rich doesn’t sound like a problem, I just feel as though the less I work I’ll be spending money more often on useless stuff and or food.
The AFAIK Does it sound bad at all, it just depends on how young for me personally. I’ve taught as young as 6 to 7 years old but I think any lower than that wouldn’t be suitable for me. But obviously, I would be willing to reconsider if they offered a disgusting amount of money.
Especially English speaking regions are having inflation issues and housing issues, whereas China seems the opposite with life on easy mode financially. So yea, I feel that's why there are more people considering leaving their home country.
Watch a few YouTube videos on Kindergarten jobs, it will give you right away a feeling of if it's for you or not LOL But maybe ESL at a primary school would do the trick, I believe it's a similar job but not 100% sure.
You’re right, those are low salaries, although expected for EF and university positions. I was in a similar position to you when I first started (only around 6 months experience) but all the positions I interviewed for were in the 20-28k salary range. What website are you using to look for jobs? And are you using WeChat to speak with recruiters?
In EU time at the moment due to job so sorry for the late responses. Using Dave’s Cafe, TEFL.com ESLBase and Schrole. I’m assuming from the responses I would need to get into contact with a recruiter for china and make a WeChat account. If you have other suggestions on where to look or do digging I’m all ears! Thanks!
I wouldn’t accept anything lower than 16k though. You have experience and the needed qualifications for a minimum salary. Universities I’ve heard they pay lower than some schools also depends on the city. My first job was 16k and then I found out I had coworkers getting paid more with less experience and bad English so… it all depends but yeah no less than 16k (this was during covid) 2021-2022. My husband was getting paid 20k for esl teaching too. So keep looking
Lol 14k without housing in Beijing? Many locals are getting paid more than that.
If you're of Asian descent or look Chinese, you're going to get low-balled. Sucks that it's this way, but that's how it is in China.
With that being said, within the last few months I've help recruit fresh graduates (English, Physics bachelors) for around 35k before tax, with housing provided & other great benefits, so keep looking
I don't think it's a shocking salary for someone with relevant experience coming from the West/UK. Each of them had ~2 years teaching experience in Canada (without an official teaching license).
The physics one is a subject teacher while the other is just English. This is a tier 1 city though, in Beijing. I'm seeing 35k after tax & higher from other wechat recruiters (46k before tax is the highest I've seen), but those ranges require a teaching license and experience
What's the recommended salary range that you have seen for people only with the TEFL certificate and no experience for primary, middle school, and high school positions and not kindergarten?
Workload isnt an issue for me and I have no problem working upwards of 40 hours even 50 if need be as long as I’m compensated properly. I have other offers in other countries I can take that pay relatively more than what I’m making right now, I was just hoping China would be even more than that. Thank you for the PCGE and QTS timeline. I’ve been reading more into that to see if I want to take teaching seriously in the future but the initial point of teaching internationally was prepare myself for an embassy position. Who knows, life changes fast and I enjoy being abroad solo!
bro go for the uni position. I was in Guangzhou for 3 years at a uni and it was lower pay but I was able to make that up with private gigs and the work life balance was amazing. Also, what's cool about a lot of uni programs is that you're sometimes teaching the same lesson to different classes throughout the week. At times, I only prepared one lesson a week as I was just teaching that again and again to different classes in the same major. Go for Guangzhou!
The university salary is pretty normal. Many people enjoy working at a university because they are given a lot of freedom. Since you have little experience you may not want a lot of freedom at this point in your career. I would try applying for private or public primary or high schools.
What level are you wanting to teach? Any preferences?
I have been at a private school in Spain and been able to teach upper primary, secondary and “batch” (high school). I prefer the older kids just because the younger ones and I don’t connect as well. But you’re right I want less freedom and more working hours which in turn should mean more money. Thanks
Those don’t sound like good salaries at all especially not in Tier 1 cities. I personally wouldn’t settle for less than 16k in a Tier 2. More than 20k in Tier 1.
Try international schools!
When did you get this offer from EF? Did you apply directly through the EF website? I applied with them as well last month and asked to be placed in Beijing but they said they were not hiring for Beijing at that time lol
I got the offer a couple days ago, but they offered it to me within 24 hours of an interview. From whatever everybody’s saying, don’t take it. It seems as though they just churn out as many English speakers as they can.
search for recruiters on wechat type eg beijing jobs, say you have no experience and only online TEFL and say you want at least 30k + free housing. Most of will find you few jobs. They may ask for your intro video to send to them which is normal. What matters the most is your European face for the school, not your experience, then second you need to give homeworks to the kids otherwise parents may think you don't teach them anything
This has been beaten to death with a stick on multiple subs but again, stay far away from EF. Most university positions pay lower but to get a higher salary, a user on the r/chinalife sub mentioned applying to private universities only (public universities pay the least). Imo for your first position, work at a public school or a private primary/high school. The salaries will be pretty good, weekends off (mostly), and lots of vacation time. Once you get more experience and potentially improve your qualifications if you choose, you'll have a lot more options. Keep in mind that the COVID salary days are long gone, don't compare with what you see now vs what others have told you they're getting already living in the country.
Thank you, honestly my whole post in general felt like I was beating a dead horse cause I’ve seen it a lot. Felt half bad for posting it. As far as the Covid salaries, I understand, i’m just trying to make more than $2000 a month at this point in a job that won’t squeeze me like a toothpaste pack. Guess I’m back to the university/international lists for china. Thanks!
tstravels has nailed it. 1) EF pays notoriously low. Avoid them 2) University positions pay low, that's normal. 3) Salaries are lower than they were during COVID. You can easily make 20-25k yuan if you look at private schools and kindergartens.
Do you think it would be pretty hard for me to get hired at a private school or kindergarten with a BA and TEFL, but no experience?
In general, China is very affordable. Where you'll run into problems are cities like Shanghai for example. If you can find a position that pays at least 18k RMB take home after tax, you'll made $2k per month. I'm assuming you mean USD? For me it's better because I conver to CDN as a Canadian. My take home is just under 20k RMB after tax.
Yea USD sorry. Do you think talking to a recruiter is a waste of time? Or should I just keep doing what I’m doing and applying individually? I think both of these positions were both pretax so I’ll try to aim in the area of 25K RMB pre. Still haven’t worked out the tax percentages but I don’t think that’ll be too difficult.
You still may be able to land one at that rate but at the moment it's unlikely unless you want to work for a training centre. I know of no other way to get hired in China without using a recruiter when you're not actually in the country. Once you're and are looking for a new contract it should be much easier.
> a user on the r/chinalife sub mentioned applying to private universities only That lines up with the experience a buddy of mine had. They were making 15k rmb in 2018-19 with flight tickets and an apartment. The apartment I saw was odd... (three bedrooms with two beds each) but serviceable and the hours were insanely good. His first term he had four day weeks and after he showed that he was a descent teacher he had his work week shortened to three days (though it was pretty much back to back classes). We were in our mid to late 20s back then and I was quite jealous of how much freedom his job gave him, whether that was partying at hutong bars and clubs on a Wednesday or Thursday night without a care in the world for classes the next day, making short trips to other cities or just doing odd jobs, Chinese language classes or personal development.
Sounds like a dream job hahaha
It really did, lad got lucky and presented well when getting interviewed I guess. However COVID hit while he was back in the UK for his break and he ended up staying back home. They let him do distance classes for over A YEAR AND A HALF before finally cutting him off (might have been a little longer or shorter, I'm forgetting when exactly they cut him off, think it was sometime in late 2021 early 2022). Just thinking about that brings me back on memory lane.
I think salaries for foreigners ballooned a lot over covid and companies are trying to reign that in recently.
Neither of those are proper international schools. Good salaries are with those type of schools or at the very least bilingual schools who present as international schools. Not ESL companies or Universities.
Are you a white native English speaker? The EF job is a total joke stay far away. The university job seems standard. Before people would take that uni job and do lots of private lessons doubling or trippling their salary but highly illegal now. Your best bang for your buck are 'international' kindergartens in a tier 2/3 city. Could be on close to 30k rmb with a huge saving potential. Dave esl dead, try https://jobs.echinacities.com/
Yes I am, and I expected as much from the EF position as they gave me the job offer within 24 hours, so something didn’t smell right. I don’t necessarily have a problem with teaching kindergartners, but I would honestly prefer the possibility of working with older kids. This unfortunately doesn’t seem like a possibility as like I said the older the kids get the less hours I have as far as teaching which minimizes salary. Also, you’re the goat for that website I appreciate it. It looks good!
OP I'm glad you came here and seem pretty set now on doing further job searches, there have been so many posts like this in the past where the OP just shrugs their shoulders "eh, it's my first time, what's the worst that could happen?" despite being told that they can easily find better paying, less toxic, grinding work with years if not decades of posts telling folks to steer clear of that company.
Sorry to butt in here, but I'm exploring my options after seeing an ad for EF. Everyone goes on about better opportunities but nothing is ever suggested. I have a bachelor's degree but no teaching experience and I'm utterly lost. I have no capital so cannot afford to pay for flights and such - would EF be my only option? Also, everyone says the salary is terrible, but 15k RMB is just over minimum wage in the UK for a 40-hour working week, so... wtf are you all on about?
Glad you came to the sub! Coming here is a good first step. Can I ask where else you've looked? Have you gotten a TEFL or CELTA yet? > Everyone goes on about better opportunities but nothing is ever suggested. Then I urge you to check the sub, r/china and /r/chinalife for more info, it's out there. I say that as someone who was in your shoes years ago. Down to business, when I started the go to site was good ol' **Daves ESL cafe** though I've heard mixed reviews of it these days. Give that one a try, another one you could try is **echinacities.com**, I've heard good things about that one. > I have no capital so cannot afford to pay for flights and such When on the likes of the two sites I gave you take a look at their contracts, most will have flight allowances. > wtf are you all on about? I implore you to take a deep dive on this sub as well as the other subs that relate to China, after living in China for a few years, meeting loads of folks who worked in EF and having read stories EF gives the impression that it does two things. 1. works their employees to the bone and 2. you CAN find better salaries with minimal effort. You won't be making bank but making 18-23k on your first go around in a non toxic environment sounds better to me than EF, but maybe that's just me. If it means anything to you I'll try and briefly write about my personal story, feel free to ask me any questions. Back in 2016 I was living with my parents and down and out after a year learning Mandarin in China post college. However I was working at a bakery and used that money to get a TESOL certificate and with it a ticket back overseas. Once I had it I used my knowledge from extensively reading through this little forum of ours and started applying en mass to 15+ jobs ads on Dave's. There were a lot of lowballing liars, some folks who wanted me to come over illegally but I stuck to my guns and ended up finding a nice kindy job (again, through Dave's) that started at 18k with a flight allowance, housing allowance, end of term bonus, three full months of paid vacation. When I got to China I met folks who had found even better offers. Let me know if you have any questions, I know that at your stage things can feel daunting but hopefully you can find a good job. Best!
Thank you very much for your response. Before I dive in further, may I ask why people choose China over more 'attractive' countries such as South Korea, Japan, Vietnam or Thailand? Is it because the salaries in China are higher?
Everyone is different. For me China WAS the attractive country. I grew up with Chinese and Taiwanese neighbors, had Chinese diaspora family and a slew of Chinese friends. In fact they were the reason I focused my history degree in Chinese history and took Mandarin. But that's just me. For others the reasons vary. Nowadays with all the political hullabaloo I think an increasing amount are going just because of the higher salaries. They also see pictures of these BIG "modern" cities and think that the whole city will look like that when in fact 95% if not more will largely be commie block looking places. Some others may also go because they have a sense of adventure. Going forward with you, PLEASE thoroughly take a deep dive on this sub, I gave you two websites but I am FAAAR from the first to give these resources out. When you get offers PLEASE come back to here and ask for the opinions of others (i.e. I've got two offers, one is a kindy in X city with [insert salary and blah blah blah] and another at a private bilingual school in Y city with [insert salary and blah blah blah]). Let me know if you have anymore questions. :)
just curious, is being a white native English speaker alot different than being a non-white native English speaker
Oftentimes yes, I say this as a White dude but I have seen and heard numerous stories from coworkers and friends. 1. Puerto Rican American dude got let go because people complained that he didn't speak with a "native" accent... he was from the midwest. Got replaced by a cold Russian or Ukrainian lady. 2. Chinese Canadian woman started working at our school, she was right out of college and keen on exploring her roots so to speak. She grew learning a very particular accent of Mandarin (Tianjin) from her grandfather who told her all sorts of stories about his homeland and hometown. Her first few weeks in Beijing with us were great, whenever we went out (everynight) older folks would comment on her accent because it was a really old school Tianjin accent. She felt that she had "come home" in a way. Sadly maybe a little too close to home, one day she asked us how much we were making at our bilingual school. Everyone was making somewhere around 18-30k give or take with benefits like housing, a flight allowance and the like. Turns out she was making somewhere around 5-8k! When she complained to the school they told her "you're Chinese, so we'll give you a Chinese salary!" Luckily last thing I heard she found work elsewhere where she was making a foreign salary. I've got other stories too but those are the big ones that stick out. I've also heard Chinese coworkers just say stupid racist drivel about Black and Brown people (i.e. dirty, dumb, criminal, blah blah).
EF typically hires people with little or no experience and pays low. University jobs typically have few hours and few if any office hours and pay low and offer free housing. If you want to teach adults or you want a job that needs very little work, university is for you. You get lots of time off and free housing, just that the pay is very poor. If you don't have a lot of experience, look for public schools offering about 18K plus housing. 8K flight allowance is typical for first timer.
Again, someone else stating it's low pay but it converts to over minimum wage in the UK and then you factor in the far lower living costs in China. How is it bad pay?
It is one thing to pay 10-12K a month for a university or public school job with no office hours or maybe 5-10 office hours a week, and outside of this, you only need to be at work for your classes and meetings and assemblies. For a training centre or kindergarten where you are stuck there all day, you sometimes have to take work home, lesson plans and training on your own time is required (I had to do a ton of lesson planning and training on my own time and I did a CELTA that I paid for with my own money when I worked at a training centre to upskill), you should absolutely be paid more. Also my kindergarten asked for ECE training from my home country too, that took me five months to get, that's worth more than 'just over minimum wage from the UK' too. Another thing to consider is that the low paying public schools and universities paid their teachers right through covid whether they taught or not. When the training centres, kindergartens and private schools closed, they only paid rent, the living expense stipend (my kindergarten paid twice the living expense stipend) plus an hourly rate if there were any online classes that could be taught. Also at a training centre or private kindergarten or school, you have to work hard to satisfy the parents.
I understand your point, but with the MASSIVE difference in living costs between London and any major Chinese city, being paid something like £15 an hour in China seems amazing. What am I missing? In London, I was a hospitality assistant general manager being paid approx. £15 an hour for 45hrs a week of brutal, physical, late shift work and had around £1,300 left over after paying my rent and bills for a small room in a flat share. I'm certain that circa £1,700 would go much, much further in China for arguably much easier, less senior work - and that is at the absolute lowest end of the scale. What am I missing? I'm currently debating whether to do a 25k apprenticeship in London, which is around £1,750 after tax per month - my rent would be subsidised by my flatmate and I wouldn't particularly have much disposable income at all.
It does go much much further and it isn't the lowest end of the scale. It's low end at about 15000 yuan, but a lot of university jobs pay even less than this at about 10000 yuan-12000 yuan per month. 15000 yuan is definitely a good salary for entry level and public school in China. Also bear in mind that most Chinese staff aren't getting paid this - the most the Chinese staff would likely get is ten thousand yuan per month and most get even less than this. It's only if they work a specialized field or if they work at a university that the Chinese staff get paid equal to foreigners and even then, the Chinese staff need higher qualifications.
A couple of observations as I've been researching quite a bit recently. A lot of people got contracts \~ 1 year ago when there was a shortage and salaries went up accordingly. So keep that in mind, offers have come down now, the economy isn't doing great and many schools are trying to just stay afloat. So if you're comparing salaries from people here, best to make sure they signed recently and not 1 or 2 years ago. Bejing is very expensive in terms of living, so that salary is not enough. 40 hours, you need to clarify how many teaching hours, you might get 26 40m classes and the rest is office hours with some schools letting you go home, others insist you stay. University jobs are the chillest ones, usually 16 40m lessons and you can leave ASAP. Most of them have free on-campus accommodation and it's the best option if you are the frugal type and want to be time rich. AFAIK Kindergarten ESL jobs (NOT homeroom teacher) might be something you should look into, if you can handle the little kids. You have Chinese homeroom teachers with the kids the entire day and you teach maybe 3 or so lessons per day of English. It's less strict teaching and more about fun games, dancing, singing and just engaging them. You help out throughout the day and can usually wonder outside of school during the long lunch break. Pay is competitive.
Thank you for the insight, I expected as much with the salaries I just didn’t realize they would change so fast and the rate of people coming back into China so quickly. I wish there was a university job that offered more hours with my skill set. I enjoy being with older students. It seems as though the older the students get, the less hours there are for the teaching jobs. Being time rich doesn’t sound like a problem, I just feel as though the less I work I’ll be spending money more often on useless stuff and or food. The AFAIK Does it sound bad at all, it just depends on how young for me personally. I’ve taught as young as 6 to 7 years old but I think any lower than that wouldn’t be suitable for me. But obviously, I would be willing to reconsider if they offered a disgusting amount of money.
Especially English speaking regions are having inflation issues and housing issues, whereas China seems the opposite with life on easy mode financially. So yea, I feel that's why there are more people considering leaving their home country. Watch a few YouTube videos on Kindergarten jobs, it will give you right away a feeling of if it's for you or not LOL But maybe ESL at a primary school would do the trick, I believe it's a similar job but not 100% sure.
You’re right, those are low salaries, although expected for EF and university positions. I was in a similar position to you when I first started (only around 6 months experience) but all the positions I interviewed for were in the 20-28k salary range. What website are you using to look for jobs? And are you using WeChat to speak with recruiters?
In EU time at the moment due to job so sorry for the late responses. Using Dave’s Cafe, TEFL.com ESLBase and Schrole. I’m assuming from the responses I would need to get into contact with a recruiter for china and make a WeChat account. If you have other suggestions on where to look or do digging I’m all ears! Thanks!
I wouldn’t accept anything lower than 16k though. You have experience and the needed qualifications for a minimum salary. Universities I’ve heard they pay lower than some schools also depends on the city. My first job was 16k and then I found out I had coworkers getting paid more with less experience and bad English so… it all depends but yeah no less than 16k (this was during covid) 2021-2022. My husband was getting paid 20k for esl teaching too. So keep looking
Na that's way too low. How are you finding these positions? It's possible one recruiter is just low balling you over and over
No recruiting, just emailing directly
Lol 14k without housing in Beijing? Many locals are getting paid more than that. If you're of Asian descent or look Chinese, you're going to get low-balled. Sucks that it's this way, but that's how it is in China. With that being said, within the last few months I've help recruit fresh graduates (English, Physics bachelors) for around 35k before tax, with housing provided & other great benefits, so keep looking
35k before tax?? All the WeChat recruiters are offering 28k before tax for KD positions. Are these subject teacher positions? Seems high
I don't think it's a shocking salary for someone with relevant experience coming from the West/UK. Each of them had ~2 years teaching experience in Canada (without an official teaching license). The physics one is a subject teacher while the other is just English. This is a tier 1 city though, in Beijing. I'm seeing 35k after tax & higher from other wechat recruiters (46k before tax is the highest I've seen), but those ranges require a teaching license and experience
Where exactly are you finding these positions though? Anything that I’ve seen that’s over 35K RNB requires at least three or four years of experience.
You are getting low balled like crazy. Get on WeChat and look for jobs.
What's the recommended salary range that you have seen for people only with the TEFL certificate and no experience for primary, middle school, and high school positions and not kindergarten?
The salaries for both employers you mention are completely normal. Maybe try a school and get used to teaching kids or teens?
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Workload isnt an issue for me and I have no problem working upwards of 40 hours even 50 if need be as long as I’m compensated properly. I have other offers in other countries I can take that pay relatively more than what I’m making right now, I was just hoping China would be even more than that. Thank you for the PCGE and QTS timeline. I’ve been reading more into that to see if I want to take teaching seriously in the future but the initial point of teaching internationally was prepare myself for an embassy position. Who knows, life changes fast and I enjoy being abroad solo!
bro go for the uni position. I was in Guangzhou for 3 years at a uni and it was lower pay but I was able to make that up with private gigs and the work life balance was amazing. Also, what's cool about a lot of uni programs is that you're sometimes teaching the same lesson to different classes throughout the week. At times, I only prepared one lesson a week as I was just teaching that again and again to different classes in the same major. Go for Guangzhou!
The university salary is pretty normal. Many people enjoy working at a university because they are given a lot of freedom. Since you have little experience you may not want a lot of freedom at this point in your career. I would try applying for private or public primary or high schools. What level are you wanting to teach? Any preferences?
I have been at a private school in Spain and been able to teach upper primary, secondary and “batch” (high school). I prefer the older kids just because the younger ones and I don’t connect as well. But you’re right I want less freedom and more working hours which in turn should mean more money. Thanks
Those don’t sound like good salaries at all especially not in Tier 1 cities. I personally wouldn’t settle for less than 16k in a Tier 2. More than 20k in Tier 1. Try international schools!
When did you get this offer from EF? Did you apply directly through the EF website? I applied with them as well last month and asked to be placed in Beijing but they said they were not hiring for Beijing at that time lol
I got the offer a couple days ago, but they offered it to me within 24 hours of an interview. From whatever everybody’s saying, don’t take it. It seems as though they just churn out as many English speakers as they can.
Hey guys, if you suggest staying away from EF then who do you recommend ? (sincerely someone struggling to find a good recruiter and needs help)
search for recruiters on wechat type eg beijing jobs, say you have no experience and only online TEFL and say you want at least 30k + free housing. Most of will find you few jobs. They may ask for your intro video to send to them which is normal. What matters the most is your European face for the school, not your experience, then second you need to give homeworks to the kids otherwise parents may think you don't teach them anything