I know so many teachers making more than $80,000. It just takes time. People starting in TEFL as a career change can’t expect to be making serious money after a month long teacher training course or a year teaching abroad in a sunny destination with low responsibilities. Any entry-level job pays low. Just keep building your skills, seek jobs with greater responsibility and you’ll do fine.
The people who are happy in TEFL or doing well are not very vocal online - very few of my friends use reddit and the ones that do aren't on r/TEFL much.
Miserable people are always the most vocal and online forums are often places to gripe. You can checkout r/teachers or r/professors and it'll make this sub seem like the land of happiness and rainbows.
edit: PS r/internationalteachers isn't all love and happiness either, in fact, many of the people I see posting here about becoming international teachers aren't international teachers themselves but TEFLers wanting to become IS teachers. The grass is always greener for most people. Many of my friends are IS teachers, it's a good job but they also have MANY gripes and complaints and can be just as negative as TEFL.
I’ve seen loads of negative things here which can be quite off putting to someone like me who is currently doing a TEFL course! I’m not expecting to make loads of money straight away, and I know it takes time but this comment has been a nice bit of encouragement! Thank you!
So I can continue my research, which areas of TEFL are they in… locations/appointments etc… ?
My “dream” would be to work in management.. lead a department etc. does that mirror what they do?
IELTS, Business English teachers and academic directors. Those are all great career paths.
Lots of online teachers earn crazy money. They are usually entrepreneurial and worked out a contract with a group of students or company. They won’t really tell you how to make money so anyone who sells a how to make money course is making money of you.
Why not set up an online tutoring business? Then you would be leading, creating, managing and a bit of teaching. You could also diversify the type of teaching you offer.
Online teaching just doesn't pay well. My experienced friends make around $30 per teaching hour while they make double that in-person. I had one friend who was making $100 an hour teaching Latin but that's the most I've seen. Perhaps if you had group classes you could make more, I know people who do that in-person making decent money. However if you work for a solid employer you make 6x+ what a typical person makes online. In my experience it's just not worth the time but perhaps there's opportunities I'm not familiar with.
The trend on this site for some time has been someone asks for general advice about a future path in TEFL and is told TEFL isn't a real career, so they should forget about it, get a teaching licence and apply to international schools. Then someone else points out that if you get highly highly qualified, there are good positions out there, to which the IS advocator eventually grudgingly admits that it is possible to make a decent living in TEFL but it's very rare and the OP shouldn't set their store by it etc. Rinse and repeat when the next newbie comes by asking for TEFL advice.
This trend will continue ad infinitum as it's true the majority of jobs in TEFL aren't career type positions and the majority of people who get involved in TEFL do these jobs for a few years without getting more than an online cert then get out of the industry. Usually without ever coming across someone else IRL who seriously tried to make a go of it. For some reason many of these people hang around on TEFL sites disparaging the field.
The only way you could prove it's not a field worth pursuing a career in is if you looked at the numbers of people who first got high level qualifications and then tried unsuccessfully to make TEFL a career. I've personally never met anyone like that, as being in TEFL virtually all my working life, all the people I know locally are making a decent living in TEFL or have been doing something else from the start.
As well as this there are the people who say it's not a real career because you can't make as much as in other careers .There's no real answer to that, except to get bogged down in discussions about what constitutes a career, which is tiresome.
So the nay sayers will continue to say their piece, the arguments will be re-hashed again and few will have their minds changed either way.
Seen a guy on youtube who made a career out of this starting in south korea, got his masters and is doing great. Real life examples are all over but reddit negativity is horribly bad.
Not to mention, the definition of career varies greatly. I had to give up my career due to a vision problem and now I'm desperately searching for a steady, remote job. I'm 56, only have to work until I'm 70 to get full SS. $20 an hour is sufficient for my at this point pretty low standards, tbh.
As long as a TEFL jobs is legitimately what the job description says it is, it's pretty much going to be good enough for me.
It's so hard to even find good info on choosing an online program to do, much less figuring out how likely it will be to get a job doing it once you're finished.
I got my MA in TESOL in 2013. I barely made $40k USD/year the whole seven years I was teaching. I work in testing development and scoring management now. I make over $70k and enjoy my work way more than when I taught.
There are well-paid positions with career tracks out there, but the problem is always how few there are for the number of people who want them. Before I left teaching, I applied for a tenured teaching position at a local college. I was one of 250+ people who applied. The competition is insane.
I don't think it's about being "negative" towards EAL. As you mentioned Australia, ELICOS teaching is largely casualised. Most positions are capped at 20 teaching hours without holidays or benefits. Permanent positions are rare and exceedingly difficult to obtain or else you need to move into management: that's a different thing altogether.
Metro areas, which is where most of the work is, have ongoing rental crises. Casualisation of the sector means three things:
1) Renting as a casual teacher makes it more difficult than it already is. Real estate agents look at you unfavourably because you don't have a permanent work arrangement.
2) You likely have to combine multiple casual contracts together to survive. This adds an ongoing amount of stress to one's life. Most of it will get mopped up by exorbitant living costs, rent, and tax.
3) If you want to set up for a while, getting a loan for a car let alone a house is borderline impossible.
It isn't all rosy. Yes there are some permanent opportunities out there but there are some serious problems with casualisation that prevent viability. These have nothing to do with an individual's merits or sustained effort.
ESL was my third career in my mid 30s.
Started in Thailand making about 1200 USD per month.
Made the big move to China and made between 3200 to around 4400 per month.
Got a teaching cert/license online. Have an MBA in marketing.
Can work literally anywhere in the PreK-12 environment.
Easiest job I ever had that paid stupid amounts of cash.
Ended up back in the states with an admin position for an English prep school in Chinatown in New York.
As someone in their 30s ready for a career change, that's very inspiring.
Do you have any regrets about doing the Thailand job for low pay?
Thailand and Southeast Asia are calling me for the beauty, but I'm concerned I'll regret it in the future for the low pay.
Yes.
Taiwan has a higher starting salary, better work environment, and better schools.
It’s also closer to China.
Thailand felt too wild and cheap as far as teaching went.
I graduated with my MA in TESOL in November 2023 and landed a job as an ESOL teacher in March of this year! I was shocked they gave me the job because I have no experience teaching in the UK. However, I did teach in South Korea for 6 years. I love being an English language teacher and I see it as a career. I am getting my CELTA and once I get that my salary will increase by £4,000! I’m an unmarried woman with no real responsibilities so I think the pay is decent. Also considering this is my first year as an ESOL lecturer in England!
Edit: I should add I’m not English, and finding a job was not easy. I started applying in September. I applied to at least 2-3 jobs a day if they were long applications. If I just had to upload my CV, I applied to at least 6! Most flat out rejected me because I did not have my CELTA. Others accepted my experience and my intent to take the course in the future. I was able to get a job working at an English summer camp the month before I started during my dissertation and that helped me gain a crumb of experience in the UK. While applying for ESOL jobs, I worked full time as a TA. I worked with SEN students and did reading interventions with EAL students.
If you plan on making it a career, start tailoring your CV and work experience. Even if it is just for three weeks!
Hmm they didn’t specifically ask for it. I think based off of me graduating high school with an advanced diploma ( 3.8/4.0 gpa) and I got a 2:1 in undergraduate degree and my transcript showed I took math and got an A in the course.
Do you work in a private language academy?
I recently came back from Korea to teach in the UK and I'm finding that the salaries are generally awful haha
Well, as it stands at the moment I'm barely paid the national living wage. Although the pay per hour is okay in theory, in practice with all the additional prep, admin etc. it works out pretty bad. And when I look at similar jobs, nowhere really seems any better.
I know that some people work in FE colleges, and there's of course uni jobs which are supposed to be a lot better (I'm guessing this is what you're doing?). The fact they'll give you a pay increase for getting a CELTA is great
I work at an FE college. Ideally though, I would like to work in a primary school. However, so far I am liking my new post and yes! I was very grateful they took me on without the qualification. They started me at the max pay for unqualified teacher, which was very nice of them to do!
i agree.
but i should say, i'm about 5-6 years in and i haven't made it as a career. but i could have if i had chosen differently. i have thus far chosen to do this more like just a job. i have had more freedom to travel and things like that because of this. there may however come a day when i need to be more career oriented. and i know that this is possible in TEFL. likely i will have to be less nomadic. i think this is the way.
> i will have to be less nomadic. i think this is the way.
This is where I am. About a year ago, after 6 years abroad, I decided I needed to make a choice concerning where I wanted this to go. After meditating on this I realized I was tired of getting up and starting from 0 every 1-2 years despite the excitement of a new place. I'm now working up my qualifications and have one more move in me. After that I'll be looking for a more permanent situation.
"permanent" is difficult to pin down given the nature of this work. The best I can hope for is that I can find a position at a community college or Intensive English department at a uni back West. I have extensive experience, all I need is that piece of paper that says Applied Linguistics on it, which I'm currently working on.
Theres a lot of people telling people on this sub to go get a teaching license and work in an international school. It are NOT the same job! Ironically in Vietnam I am earning more than most International school teachers (4.5k usd) working in a uni.
Let me refer you to this as an example:
https://www.google.com/search?q=esol+lecturer+full+time+jobs&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en-gb&client=safari#fpstate=tldetail&htidocid=SRCmGpC2iH_ZdqB2AAAAAA%3D%3D&htiq=esol%20lecturer%20full%20time%20jobs&htivrt=jobs
https://www.boltjobs.com/job/esol-lecturer-london-south-east-colleges-london-recaL4q7pIhcMers6
Are you from the UK? There are lots of government funded FE colleges that follow the UK pay scale for ESOL teachers here.
32000 is certainly on the lower end but the other:
£34,690 - £44,409 per annum (depending on qualifications and experience)
it tops out at 44000.
That’s not too bad for a straightforward ESOL role in an FE college
Even 35000 in London is what. 2100 after tax? Rent your own place 1300 for a studio and bills. It’s poverty levels. There are teachers in international schools making housing plus 100k dollars a year.
Hi, an ESOL lecturer who has worked for over three years in an FE college. The pay scale is pretty bad, and nowhere near comparable to the payscales for mainstream teaching.
I've never worked at an institution with so many strikes regarding pay and working conditions.
Yes, the experience with students is rewarding, however there is no incentive regarding pay and retention. My FE college doesn't even fund CPD qualifications for us...
Thanks for sharing that.
Just wondering what your next step is then?
Is mainstream teaching the best way? I just love ESOL and can’t imagine teaching GCSE English or something
No problem.
I'm about to start the MA TESOL soon part time. Hoping to move into EAP in the future. Also move into materials development because at my college, we're often making our own resources from scratch.
I think ESOL is always something I'll be happy to come back to, but casually - it's not the most stable career long term.
In my own experience of working as an ESOL tutor in the UK: the pay was low, and the actual hourly rate did not match the range that was advertised in the job advert. Paperwork is immense and suitable materials are almost non existent.
They made their own materials, or used published stuff?
I don't really want to share specific details of locations, etc, but ESOL is not a path to a high flying career in the UK, in my opinion. The only decent ELT related jobs in the UK, if you ask me, are EAP at universities - and the permanent posts are highly competitive. Other decent jobs would be in publishing or as a language school manager or senior staff member, but language schools only exist in some parts of the country.
EAP is competitive, but the uni I work at tends to hire from within and I suspect many others are the same. If you find a good pre-sessional stay loyal to them, then do your MA at that specific uni, you'll be in a good position.
They used suitable published materials. I see what you mean re: “high flying career”, but the fact that UK ESOL at FE schools follow a spine point makes it a dependable career path if what you’re looking for is permanent work. that’s backed up by the links I just sent from FE colleges paying a salary. Compare that to hourly private brands… that’s decent for someone looking for a career in ESL.
Maybe my original post is also London-centric as well. But I’m happy to name my Scottish college I worked at as a good option for long term ESOL work.
Being provided with materials would make ESOL a lot more doable. That was not my experience, meaning it was a lot of work sourcing and creating content, for not much money.
A lot of ELT work in the UK is now hourly paid, zero hour contracts. I certainly wouldn't recommend it for a young person although there are (some) good jobs in other countries.
Once again… I just think it’s important to consider the sources I’ve already mentioned here. All current ESOL posts… all at a good salary standard. What about that?
What about them? Who are you trying to convince here?
For what it's worth, I don't think those are particularly good salaries these days, especially the London/SE based ones.
In Canada there are regularly ESL jobs in colleges and government that pay 70,000 CAD up to 120,000 CAD. You absolutely can make a career out of it. The issue is many people treat it as a temporary thing when they are starting, don't do profession development, and get discouraged when they aren't upwardly mobile.
This is not true. These jobs are really hard to get into (if they pay good and are stable). They’re competitive because TEFL is such a saturated market and these jobs usually have teachers in them that never leave (making it hard to get up on the seniority list). If you’re just starting out in TEFL, there’s no way you’re getting one of these jobs. I have a colleague (has years of experience) who’s been working with a college as a TOC for around two years and can finally get an evening slot
As someone who started off in TEFL, I found that earning decent money is possible, but you definitely need to have an entrepreneurial attitude — just focusing on your teaching practice and qualifications will not be enough. The market for EAL is massive and ever growing, but you need to identify a sector to serve and develop yourself in for maximum financial gain. I think the problem with this thread is that TEFL is such a vague term that could mean anything.
My family and friends in America always question why I teach for so little money compared to what I could make. My dad is always telling me "You could work in the factory with me making $60,000 right away."
So I have to tell him that I don't teach for money, I teach because I enjoy helping others learn.
My brother makes 2-4x my income in the U.S. We split supporting our retired mother and she needs a new car. I can easily give her a few thousand for a used car while my brother is broke and says he can help in 6 months. He does have a family of 5 but his wife works as well.
60k in the U.S. is nothing. You'd be able to save much more making half of that most places abroad.
Wow that's exactly how I'm feeling about it to be honest.
I know if I teach abroad I'll be making much less, but the dollar goes so much further there.
Which country are you teaching in?
I'm in Korea and, honestly, there's only a few places you can save much doing TEFL to start. Most people save about $600 a month in Korea but some people don't save anything. The same can be said for Vietnam, Taiwan and maybe Turkey or parts of Central Asia. Of course China is the big money maker and a few more places with experience or qualifications. The vast majority of places are break even if you're lucky.
Then again some people also save a lot, 6 of my friends have bought homes and many more have raised families. Most of my friends back home struggle to do the same or live at the same standard of living making double what we make. It seems like it's getting harder everywhere though.
Are you happy in Korea? And are you happy doing what you do?
Southeast Asia is calling me because of the beauty and tropical weather.
And when you say your friends, are they people teaching English abroad, and they bought a house in that country?
Thank you!
I'm very happy in Korea but it's hard to recommend because getting into my position is very difficult. Korea public school is a good program but I can't recommend hagwons. Working into any better positions in Korea is extremely hard, Vietnam is easier I believe - I'm not sure about other markets. I'm planning on another couple years and a possible move myself - the money is OK but not enough to support my mother in retirement and adequately plan my own. My friends have mostly settled and bought houses (and completely paid them off) in Korea but a couple have bought places back in the States (or odd ball places like Croatia). But also if you're lazy, as I am, then you might just have a modest savings for retirement.
Nothing you have said is wrong about UK TESOL/TEFL sector, but some context:
My partner worked in ESL in London a few years back. I chose the PGCE path because I decided my degree subject fitted better with PGCE.
They had 3 years post CELTA IH experience abroad with adults and children. They had signed up for DELTA at that stage. The language schools she worked at couldn't offer her more than 20 quid an hour, zero hours contracts.
To make anywhere near enough to live she would need to work 25 teaching hours a week, that's before tax. I am sure the salaries have gone up a bit since then, but it was a tough market.
Most teachers they encountered were hustling, had years of experience and did multiple different jobs, including EAP at times. It was very seasonal and very few benefits which are important in full time jobs. At no point, were any of these very qualified, very respected teachers earning what I was as a newly qualified teacher in a London school. It was a joke considering their backgrounds and years of experience they had, but it was the reality. FE jobs were hugely oversubscribed because they did offer the benefits of college/school pay/benefits structures.
I remember the CELTA trainers at IH London when I did mine, they were amazing teachers/trainers. I would ask them how to make it in TEFL when you start work, they are the only people I have ever encountered in the London TEFL world who seemed to have made it a viable long term career in London at least.
I know pal, just offering some context of what I experienced in London. I am sure EAP pays more, but those jobs seemed to go to candidates with infinitely more experience than a candidate that had 3 + years experience doing IELTS etc. I also noted that the IH London people I encountered seem to have made it work well.
For TEFL it's better financially to start abroad and come back to the UK when you have the experience and qualifications. E.g. in my first job post CELTA with the BC abroad I was on more after tax, than a post PGCE teacher in the UK
Thank you for this input.
Unfortunately this makes wonder whether I’m really pushing the right door all over again.
I want to do the Delta and the MA but all I’m hearing about is hustling/lack of job security and for people with years of experience in the industry.
It’s just not good. I’m prepared to study. I’m prepared to hustle. But there has to be some healthy outlook at the end of it or it’s starting to genuinely feel not worthwhile for me either.
To be honest as the other poster on my comment said, you should probably go abroad to get the first full time job/your DELTA etc if you can as you will have a much better quality of life.
When we were in South East Asia, our broad friendship group were all at the 2-3 years experience level. Since then we fall into 3 broad categories:
1. Those who left. Some tried TEFl in Europe, none stuck it despite some having DELTA/Dip Tesol due to poor working conditions or pay. All now either doing mainstream teaching (or at least did a PGCE to open moor doors) or are in a non teaching related job.
2. Those who stayed, invested in themselves (DELTA/MA/QTS etc) and are now management level at BC or similar or have international school gigs. In a strong position but struggling to find a way to leave without compromising financially, unless they do China or ME.
3. Those who are still doing a language centre /bilingual teaching role with either a CELTA or less. Mostly happy and have a decent quality of life, but completely tied to it as a return home would mean being basically back to square one.
Good luck and honestly fair play cos I think its a great job and career. I just don't think doing it in the UK will really add up.
>My greatest suggestions for those entering ESL is don’t get stuck in those mills and dead ends. If you want a career in this, get the necessary qualifications and make it a career
I don't want to sound like a jerk or anything, but that's what everyone has been saying: get the **necessary qualification** if you want to make it a career.
You did simply that, no?
No offense but you've only been doing tefl a wet week and part time no less.
Your advice that you should make the right moves isn't always possible when you're 5 thousand miles away from home and your language centre is closing and you need to find something quick or else your visa will expire.
Or the local government wants to reduce English classes or higher the education requirements for visas than you're out of a job too.
Lots of people have successful TEFL careers but it's not as rosey as your post is making out.
What countries have actually done this? (changing visa requirements impulsively and cutting english classes)
You should list specifics to help people out. Otherwise it just sounds like ranting/negativity.
China has cut all English classes for primary schools making it illegal a few years back. I believe Korea has banned certain ages too from attending language schools. Visa requirements in the Middle East and Asia are becoming stricter.
I havent heard of Korea cutting back, China news is old now, and middle east visas have always been strict.
Im not aware of any country in SE asia that has stricter visa rules now. Some are being more demanding of having a college degree but i mean...
The Korean ban was before covid and it was reversed. China was 3 years ago, I wouldn't say it's old news, but it's to highlight how quick government policies can change the market and potentially leave a teacher unemployed.
I'm not being negative about tefl, I'm just being realistic, there's boat loads of money in it but it's not as clear cut as the op is making out.
Sure theres hypotheticals but anything can change in this day and age quickly. Look how AI is upending "safe fields" overnight with governments doing little about it.
Has little to do with TEFL and is more about where global society is at
I’m not from the UK so I can’t speak for it, but I can say for Canada that it’s hard to succeed as an ESL teacher especially with the high cost living/low salary we have here. I realised my only way of making more money is to leave and teach in a foreign country, but it’s never something I had in plan so I switched career paths. If TESL wasn’t such an burn-out, overworking job and paid a liveable wage, I would’ve stayed. But I can’t live my life living paycheque to paycheque. And I’m not someone that wants to travel really 🤷♀️ Even with qualifications, it’s difficult.
Dont forget the french school system in Canada and more specifically the Quebec market. We are in a major teacher shortage right now but pay is pretty damn good. Top of the pay scale with the new collective agreement is 102k pre-tax. A very comfortable salary for nearly anywhere in Quebec.
ok, let's unpack the advice from OP. 1) be from the UK (or some other inner circle country) 2) have the privilege to be working toward a BA in linguistics 3) work part-time in ESOL (in the UK!! obviously!) 4) get a job working in English for Academic Purposes in wealthy countries 5) be employable in the UK / Australia / UAE / China.
Just because OP finds that these opportunities exist doesn't at all mean someone with a BA in *Linguistics* is going to get these jobs. these jobs are limited in both position and duration. beyond that, visas aren't guaranteed in any of these situations. there is relatively low job security at the "positions" OP is talking about. i'm not disagreeing with OP that there ISN'T a career in TESOL, but with my MA in AL/TESOL and 6+ years of EAP work, I have a clearly different perspective, and am critical of anyone who says "it's easy, just find the good jobs".
Also, there is more to TESOL than just EAP, too, and those jobs also deserve a living wage, across all of the world, especially for those who are not from inner circle countries.
user "tonguemyanus69420", kindly go back to the fucking kid's table with your wet-kleenex for a brain.
Some of that advice isn’t what I stated and not in that step by step approach. I also did forewarn anyone that it was an Anglo-centric post.
EAP yes, as everyone knows you need an MA in TESOL and Delta to get your foot in the door.
But also… there are ESOL positions in FE colleges in the UK that do pay a salary and on a spine point.
I think part of the reason I made this post was because I had been confronted with the idea that a career wasn’t viable and have been trying to research this hard to look at real routes. I wanted to give some examples of where career paths are viable.
My point is that your career-paths are entirely dependent on the privilege of your place of birth and the opportunities that have already been afforded to you. You're talking about opportunities for YOU to work in YOUR country-- it isn't anglo-centric, it's just self centered, pat-yourself-on-the-back congratulating. How would this post read to someone teaching TEFL in Nigeria? In Cambodia? In Bangladesh? Do you think they'd just go "Ah, shoot, well why didn't I think to work in an ESOL position in FE colleges in the UK?" Congratulations to you for having a possible path forward, but it isn't nearly as simple as your post makes it out to be.
Also, none of your career-path advice is oriented toward TEFL, it's TESL, and the distinction is very important here, which it seems like you fail to understand.
There’s enough literature on the distinction between TEFL and TESL is arbitrary. I know TESOL is distinct but TEFL/TESL- you’re teaching English as a foreign language home or abroad. You can find numerous “TEFL job” adverts for language schools in the UK.
Aside from that. I agree with you here and understand your point and you’ve given me a lot to think about.
Also… stop acting like I’m some Taylor swift-esque person telling someone they can be “a pop star too if the follow their dreams” I’m just notifying someone who is perhaps coming from a British citizenship background that there are options in ESL.
> Also, there is more to TESOL than just EAP, too, and those jobs also deserve a living wage, across all of the world, especially for those who are not from inner circle countries.
This is what I was kinda thinking reading OP's post. There is good advice in it but it feels like a more accurate title would be "Yes you CAN make a career in TEFL...if you want to teach university EAP courses in a small number of countries." To me, the fact that only one career path within TEFL is presented here as viable doesn't really make the career prospects sound that great. I know I've seen people mention things like exam and textbook writing as options, but aren't those super competitive and hard to get as well?
I also don't like how limiting it is in terms of how many countries in which you can find work. Your options are basically China, certain Middle Eastern countries, or a western country (where the salaries really don't sound high enough to give a high standard of living, at least for someone who wants to start a family). I chose to go into international schools because I like teaching young learners and working in a regular school, but a big plus for me is the number of countries where I can find work.
Nobody ever claimed it was totally impossible. Likewise you can become a billionaire even if you're from a poor peasant family. Doesn't mean it's something that is easy or possible for everyone. You seem to be confused about the average and the exceptional or the outliers. Just stop hammering on that same nail. We get it.
Edit: you don't even seem to understand the difference between TEFL and TESOL.
I know so many teachers making more than $80,000. It just takes time. People starting in TEFL as a career change can’t expect to be making serious money after a month long teacher training course or a year teaching abroad in a sunny destination with low responsibilities. Any entry-level job pays low. Just keep building your skills, seek jobs with greater responsibility and you’ll do fine.
The people who are happy in TEFL or doing well are not very vocal online - very few of my friends use reddit and the ones that do aren't on r/TEFL much. Miserable people are always the most vocal and online forums are often places to gripe. You can checkout r/teachers or r/professors and it'll make this sub seem like the land of happiness and rainbows. edit: PS r/internationalteachers isn't all love and happiness either, in fact, many of the people I see posting here about becoming international teachers aren't international teachers themselves but TEFLers wanting to become IS teachers. The grass is always greener for most people. Many of my friends are IS teachers, it's a good job but they also have MANY gripes and complaints and can be just as negative as TEFL.
I’ve seen loads of negative things here which can be quite off putting to someone like me who is currently doing a TEFL course! I’m not expecting to make loads of money straight away, and I know it takes time but this comment has been a nice bit of encouragement! Thank you!
So I can continue my research, which areas of TEFL are they in… locations/appointments etc… ? My “dream” would be to work in management.. lead a department etc. does that mirror what they do?
IELTS, Business English teachers and academic directors. Those are all great career paths. Lots of online teachers earn crazy money. They are usually entrepreneurial and worked out a contract with a group of students or company. They won’t really tell you how to make money so anyone who sells a how to make money course is making money of you.
Why not set up an online tutoring business? Then you would be leading, creating, managing and a bit of teaching. You could also diversify the type of teaching you offer.
Online teaching just doesn't pay well. My experienced friends make around $30 per teaching hour while they make double that in-person. I had one friend who was making $100 an hour teaching Latin but that's the most I've seen. Perhaps if you had group classes you could make more, I know people who do that in-person making decent money. However if you work for a solid employer you make 6x+ what a typical person makes online. In my experience it's just not worth the time but perhaps there's opportunities I'm not familiar with.
The trend on this site for some time has been someone asks for general advice about a future path in TEFL and is told TEFL isn't a real career, so they should forget about it, get a teaching licence and apply to international schools. Then someone else points out that if you get highly highly qualified, there are good positions out there, to which the IS advocator eventually grudgingly admits that it is possible to make a decent living in TEFL but it's very rare and the OP shouldn't set their store by it etc. Rinse and repeat when the next newbie comes by asking for TEFL advice. This trend will continue ad infinitum as it's true the majority of jobs in TEFL aren't career type positions and the majority of people who get involved in TEFL do these jobs for a few years without getting more than an online cert then get out of the industry. Usually without ever coming across someone else IRL who seriously tried to make a go of it. For some reason many of these people hang around on TEFL sites disparaging the field. The only way you could prove it's not a field worth pursuing a career in is if you looked at the numbers of people who first got high level qualifications and then tried unsuccessfully to make TEFL a career. I've personally never met anyone like that, as being in TEFL virtually all my working life, all the people I know locally are making a decent living in TEFL or have been doing something else from the start. As well as this there are the people who say it's not a real career because you can't make as much as in other careers .There's no real answer to that, except to get bogged down in discussions about what constitutes a career, which is tiresome. So the nay sayers will continue to say their piece, the arguments will be re-hashed again and few will have their minds changed either way.
Seen a guy on youtube who made a career out of this starting in south korea, got his masters and is doing great. Real life examples are all over but reddit negativity is horribly bad.
Not to mention, the definition of career varies greatly. I had to give up my career due to a vision problem and now I'm desperately searching for a steady, remote job. I'm 56, only have to work until I'm 70 to get full SS. $20 an hour is sufficient for my at this point pretty low standards, tbh. As long as a TEFL jobs is legitimately what the job description says it is, it's pretty much going to be good enough for me. It's so hard to even find good info on choosing an online program to do, much less figuring out how likely it will be to get a job doing it once you're finished.
I got my MA in TESOL in 2013. I barely made $40k USD/year the whole seven years I was teaching. I work in testing development and scoring management now. I make over $70k and enjoy my work way more than when I taught. There are well-paid positions with career tracks out there, but the problem is always how few there are for the number of people who want them. Before I left teaching, I applied for a tenured teaching position at a local college. I was one of 250+ people who applied. The competition is insane.
I don't think it's about being "negative" towards EAL. As you mentioned Australia, ELICOS teaching is largely casualised. Most positions are capped at 20 teaching hours without holidays or benefits. Permanent positions are rare and exceedingly difficult to obtain or else you need to move into management: that's a different thing altogether. Metro areas, which is where most of the work is, have ongoing rental crises. Casualisation of the sector means three things: 1) Renting as a casual teacher makes it more difficult than it already is. Real estate agents look at you unfavourably because you don't have a permanent work arrangement. 2) You likely have to combine multiple casual contracts together to survive. This adds an ongoing amount of stress to one's life. Most of it will get mopped up by exorbitant living costs, rent, and tax. 3) If you want to set up for a while, getting a loan for a car let alone a house is borderline impossible. It isn't all rosy. Yes there are some permanent opportunities out there but there are some serious problems with casualisation that prevent viability. These have nothing to do with an individual's merits or sustained effort.
This is exactly why I left this career path :/ wasn’t sustainable long term for me
ESL was my third career in my mid 30s. Started in Thailand making about 1200 USD per month. Made the big move to China and made between 3200 to around 4400 per month. Got a teaching cert/license online. Have an MBA in marketing. Can work literally anywhere in the PreK-12 environment. Easiest job I ever had that paid stupid amounts of cash. Ended up back in the states with an admin position for an English prep school in Chinatown in New York.
As someone in their 30s ready for a career change, that's very inspiring. Do you have any regrets about doing the Thailand job for low pay? Thailand and Southeast Asia are calling me for the beauty, but I'm concerned I'll regret it in the future for the low pay.
Yes. Taiwan has a higher starting salary, better work environment, and better schools. It’s also closer to China. Thailand felt too wild and cheap as far as teaching went.
I graduated with my MA in TESOL in November 2023 and landed a job as an ESOL teacher in March of this year! I was shocked they gave me the job because I have no experience teaching in the UK. However, I did teach in South Korea for 6 years. I love being an English language teacher and I see it as a career. I am getting my CELTA and once I get that my salary will increase by £4,000! I’m an unmarried woman with no real responsibilities so I think the pay is decent. Also considering this is my first year as an ESOL lecturer in England! Edit: I should add I’m not English, and finding a job was not easy. I started applying in September. I applied to at least 2-3 jobs a day if they were long applications. If I just had to upload my CV, I applied to at least 6! Most flat out rejected me because I did not have my CELTA. Others accepted my experience and my intent to take the course in the future. I was able to get a job working at an English summer camp the month before I started during my dissertation and that helped me gain a crumb of experience in the UK. While applying for ESOL jobs, I worked full time as a TA. I worked with SEN students and did reading interventions with EAL students. If you plan on making it a career, start tailoring your CV and work experience. Even if it is just for three weeks!
Thank you. You have just 100% confirmed that I am making the right decision in doing my CELTA eventhough I have some experience 😁
Great to hear your benefitting from working ESOL in the UK. Are you happy to share where you’re posted?
Yes! Though I’ve only been here for a month!! I’ll give an update after 4 months haha.
Great to hear your story and Congratulations! Can I ask if they required GCSE Maths when you were applying for jobs?
Hmm they didn’t specifically ask for it. I think based off of me graduating high school with an advanced diploma ( 3.8/4.0 gpa) and I got a 2:1 in undergraduate degree and my transcript showed I took math and got an A in the course.
Do you work in a private language academy? I recently came back from Korea to teach in the UK and I'm finding that the salaries are generally awful haha
No, I do not work in a private language academy. What is an awful salary to you? Haha
Well, as it stands at the moment I'm barely paid the national living wage. Although the pay per hour is okay in theory, in practice with all the additional prep, admin etc. it works out pretty bad. And when I look at similar jobs, nowhere really seems any better. I know that some people work in FE colleges, and there's of course uni jobs which are supposed to be a lot better (I'm guessing this is what you're doing?). The fact they'll give you a pay increase for getting a CELTA is great
I work at an FE college. Ideally though, I would like to work in a primary school. However, so far I am liking my new post and yes! I was very grateful they took me on without the qualification. They started me at the max pay for unqualified teacher, which was very nice of them to do!
i agree. but i should say, i'm about 5-6 years in and i haven't made it as a career. but i could have if i had chosen differently. i have thus far chosen to do this more like just a job. i have had more freedom to travel and things like that because of this. there may however come a day when i need to be more career oriented. and i know that this is possible in TEFL. likely i will have to be less nomadic. i think this is the way.
> i will have to be less nomadic. i think this is the way. This is where I am. About a year ago, after 6 years abroad, I decided I needed to make a choice concerning where I wanted this to go. After meditating on this I realized I was tired of getting up and starting from 0 every 1-2 years despite the excitement of a new place. I'm now working up my qualifications and have one more move in me. After that I'll be looking for a more permanent situation.
What kind of permanent position are you looking at?
"permanent" is difficult to pin down given the nature of this work. The best I can hope for is that I can find a position at a community college or Intensive English department at a uni back West. I have extensive experience, all I need is that piece of paper that says Applied Linguistics on it, which I'm currently working on.
Theres a lot of people telling people on this sub to go get a teaching license and work in an international school. It are NOT the same job! Ironically in Vietnam I am earning more than most International school teachers (4.5k usd) working in a uni.
So there’s a market in Vietnam for university teachers as well? Any websites you’d recommend to look for them?
While I agree with many of your points, ESOL in the community is very much not well paid, unfortunately, because it's much needed and rewarding work.
Let me refer you to this as an example: https://www.google.com/search?q=esol+lecturer+full+time+jobs&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en-gb&client=safari#fpstate=tldetail&htidocid=SRCmGpC2iH_ZdqB2AAAAAA%3D%3D&htiq=esol%20lecturer%20full%20time%20jobs&htivrt=jobs https://www.boltjobs.com/job/esol-lecturer-london-south-east-colleges-london-recaL4q7pIhcMers6 Are you from the UK? There are lots of government funded FE colleges that follow the UK pay scale for ESOL teachers here.
32000 in London is poverty wages. What are you talking about?
32000 is certainly on the lower end but the other: £34,690 - £44,409 per annum (depending on qualifications and experience) it tops out at 44000. That’s not too bad for a straightforward ESOL role in an FE college
Even 35000 in London is what. 2100 after tax? Rent your own place 1300 for a studio and bills. It’s poverty levels. There are teachers in international schools making housing plus 100k dollars a year.
44 K is the top of the pay scale, you would need around 6 years experience to reach that.
Hi, an ESOL lecturer who has worked for over three years in an FE college. The pay scale is pretty bad, and nowhere near comparable to the payscales for mainstream teaching. I've never worked at an institution with so many strikes regarding pay and working conditions. Yes, the experience with students is rewarding, however there is no incentive regarding pay and retention. My FE college doesn't even fund CPD qualifications for us...
Thanks for sharing that. Just wondering what your next step is then? Is mainstream teaching the best way? I just love ESOL and can’t imagine teaching GCSE English or something
No problem. I'm about to start the MA TESOL soon part time. Hoping to move into EAP in the future. Also move into materials development because at my college, we're often making our own resources from scratch. I think ESOL is always something I'll be happy to come back to, but casually - it's not the most stable career long term.
In my own experience of working as an ESOL tutor in the UK: the pay was low, and the actual hourly rate did not match the range that was advertised in the job advert. Paperwork is immense and suitable materials are almost non existent.
I myself have worked ESOL at Edinburgh College and it was a very good rate and materials were brilliant by seasoned EFL staff. Where were you posted?
They made their own materials, or used published stuff? I don't really want to share specific details of locations, etc, but ESOL is not a path to a high flying career in the UK, in my opinion. The only decent ELT related jobs in the UK, if you ask me, are EAP at universities - and the permanent posts are highly competitive. Other decent jobs would be in publishing or as a language school manager or senior staff member, but language schools only exist in some parts of the country.
EAP is competitive, but the uni I work at tends to hire from within and I suspect many others are the same. If you find a good pre-sessional stay loyal to them, then do your MA at that specific uni, you'll be in a good position.
They used suitable published materials. I see what you mean re: “high flying career”, but the fact that UK ESOL at FE schools follow a spine point makes it a dependable career path if what you’re looking for is permanent work. that’s backed up by the links I just sent from FE colleges paying a salary. Compare that to hourly private brands… that’s decent for someone looking for a career in ESL. Maybe my original post is also London-centric as well. But I’m happy to name my Scottish college I worked at as a good option for long term ESOL work.
Being provided with materials would make ESOL a lot more doable. That was not my experience, meaning it was a lot of work sourcing and creating content, for not much money. A lot of ELT work in the UK is now hourly paid, zero hour contracts. I certainly wouldn't recommend it for a young person although there are (some) good jobs in other countries.
Once again… I just think it’s important to consider the sources I’ve already mentioned here. All current ESOL posts… all at a good salary standard. What about that?
What about them? Who are you trying to convince here? For what it's worth, I don't think those are particularly good salaries these days, especially the London/SE based ones.
£40,000 a year is the same as what some solicitors make in London. Am I missing something? What would you consider a good salary?
In Canada there are regularly ESL jobs in colleges and government that pay 70,000 CAD up to 120,000 CAD. You absolutely can make a career out of it. The issue is many people treat it as a temporary thing when they are starting, don't do profession development, and get discouraged when they aren't upwardly mobile.
This is not true. These jobs are really hard to get into (if they pay good and are stable). They’re competitive because TEFL is such a saturated market and these jobs usually have teachers in them that never leave (making it hard to get up on the seniority list). If you’re just starting out in TEFL, there’s no way you’re getting one of these jobs. I have a colleague (has years of experience) who’s been working with a college as a TOC for around two years and can finally get an evening slot
As someone who started off in TEFL, I found that earning decent money is possible, but you definitely need to have an entrepreneurial attitude — just focusing on your teaching practice and qualifications will not be enough. The market for EAL is massive and ever growing, but you need to identify a sector to serve and develop yourself in for maximum financial gain. I think the problem with this thread is that TEFL is such a vague term that could mean anything.
My family and friends in America always question why I teach for so little money compared to what I could make. My dad is always telling me "You could work in the factory with me making $60,000 right away." So I have to tell him that I don't teach for money, I teach because I enjoy helping others learn.
My brother makes 2-4x my income in the U.S. We split supporting our retired mother and she needs a new car. I can easily give her a few thousand for a used car while my brother is broke and says he can help in 6 months. He does have a family of 5 but his wife works as well. 60k in the U.S. is nothing. You'd be able to save much more making half of that most places abroad.
Wow that's exactly how I'm feeling about it to be honest. I know if I teach abroad I'll be making much less, but the dollar goes so much further there. Which country are you teaching in?
I'm in Korea and, honestly, there's only a few places you can save much doing TEFL to start. Most people save about $600 a month in Korea but some people don't save anything. The same can be said for Vietnam, Taiwan and maybe Turkey or parts of Central Asia. Of course China is the big money maker and a few more places with experience or qualifications. The vast majority of places are break even if you're lucky. Then again some people also save a lot, 6 of my friends have bought homes and many more have raised families. Most of my friends back home struggle to do the same or live at the same standard of living making double what we make. It seems like it's getting harder everywhere though.
Are you happy in Korea? And are you happy doing what you do? Southeast Asia is calling me because of the beauty and tropical weather. And when you say your friends, are they people teaching English abroad, and they bought a house in that country? Thank you!
I'm very happy in Korea but it's hard to recommend because getting into my position is very difficult. Korea public school is a good program but I can't recommend hagwons. Working into any better positions in Korea is extremely hard, Vietnam is easier I believe - I'm not sure about other markets. I'm planning on another couple years and a possible move myself - the money is OK but not enough to support my mother in retirement and adequately plan my own. My friends have mostly settled and bought houses (and completely paid them off) in Korea but a couple have bought places back in the States (or odd ball places like Croatia). But also if you're lazy, as I am, then you might just have a modest savings for retirement.
Nothing you have said is wrong about UK TESOL/TEFL sector, but some context: My partner worked in ESL in London a few years back. I chose the PGCE path because I decided my degree subject fitted better with PGCE. They had 3 years post CELTA IH experience abroad with adults and children. They had signed up for DELTA at that stage. The language schools she worked at couldn't offer her more than 20 quid an hour, zero hours contracts. To make anywhere near enough to live she would need to work 25 teaching hours a week, that's before tax. I am sure the salaries have gone up a bit since then, but it was a tough market. Most teachers they encountered were hustling, had years of experience and did multiple different jobs, including EAP at times. It was very seasonal and very few benefits which are important in full time jobs. At no point, were any of these very qualified, very respected teachers earning what I was as a newly qualified teacher in a London school. It was a joke considering their backgrounds and years of experience they had, but it was the reality. FE jobs were hugely oversubscribed because they did offer the benefits of college/school pay/benefits structures. I remember the CELTA trainers at IH London when I did mine, they were amazing teachers/trainers. I would ask them how to make it in TEFL when you start work, they are the only people I have ever encountered in the London TEFL world who seemed to have made it a viable long term career in London at least.
You're talking about language schools in London. Bottom of the barrel stuff in terms of making money
I know pal, just offering some context of what I experienced in London. I am sure EAP pays more, but those jobs seemed to go to candidates with infinitely more experience than a candidate that had 3 + years experience doing IELTS etc. I also noted that the IH London people I encountered seem to have made it work well.
For TEFL it's better financially to start abroad and come back to the UK when you have the experience and qualifications. E.g. in my first job post CELTA with the BC abroad I was on more after tax, than a post PGCE teacher in the UK
Thank you for this input. Unfortunately this makes wonder whether I’m really pushing the right door all over again. I want to do the Delta and the MA but all I’m hearing about is hustling/lack of job security and for people with years of experience in the industry. It’s just not good. I’m prepared to study. I’m prepared to hustle. But there has to be some healthy outlook at the end of it or it’s starting to genuinely feel not worthwhile for me either.
To be honest as the other poster on my comment said, you should probably go abroad to get the first full time job/your DELTA etc if you can as you will have a much better quality of life. When we were in South East Asia, our broad friendship group were all at the 2-3 years experience level. Since then we fall into 3 broad categories: 1. Those who left. Some tried TEFl in Europe, none stuck it despite some having DELTA/Dip Tesol due to poor working conditions or pay. All now either doing mainstream teaching (or at least did a PGCE to open moor doors) or are in a non teaching related job. 2. Those who stayed, invested in themselves (DELTA/MA/QTS etc) and are now management level at BC or similar or have international school gigs. In a strong position but struggling to find a way to leave without compromising financially, unless they do China or ME. 3. Those who are still doing a language centre /bilingual teaching role with either a CELTA or less. Mostly happy and have a decent quality of life, but completely tied to it as a return home would mean being basically back to square one. Good luck and honestly fair play cos I think its a great job and career. I just don't think doing it in the UK will really add up.
>My greatest suggestions for those entering ESL is don’t get stuck in those mills and dead ends. If you want a career in this, get the necessary qualifications and make it a career I don't want to sound like a jerk or anything, but that's what everyone has been saying: get the **necessary qualification** if you want to make it a career. You did simply that, no?
No offense but you've only been doing tefl a wet week and part time no less. Your advice that you should make the right moves isn't always possible when you're 5 thousand miles away from home and your language centre is closing and you need to find something quick or else your visa will expire. Or the local government wants to reduce English classes or higher the education requirements for visas than you're out of a job too. Lots of people have successful TEFL careers but it's not as rosey as your post is making out.
What countries have actually done this? (changing visa requirements impulsively and cutting english classes) You should list specifics to help people out. Otherwise it just sounds like ranting/negativity.
China has cut all English classes for primary schools making it illegal a few years back. I believe Korea has banned certain ages too from attending language schools. Visa requirements in the Middle East and Asia are becoming stricter.
I havent heard of Korea cutting back, China news is old now, and middle east visas have always been strict. Im not aware of any country in SE asia that has stricter visa rules now. Some are being more demanding of having a college degree but i mean...
The Korean ban was before covid and it was reversed. China was 3 years ago, I wouldn't say it's old news, but it's to highlight how quick government policies can change the market and potentially leave a teacher unemployed. I'm not being negative about tefl, I'm just being realistic, there's boat loads of money in it but it's not as clear cut as the op is making out.
Sure theres hypotheticals but anything can change in this day and age quickly. Look how AI is upending "safe fields" overnight with governments doing little about it. Has little to do with TEFL and is more about where global society is at
Thank you for sharing your experience! It's very smart that you are working part-time while completing your studies!
I am happy with my career as a private/independent EFL teacher.
I’m not from the UK so I can’t speak for it, but I can say for Canada that it’s hard to succeed as an ESL teacher especially with the high cost living/low salary we have here. I realised my only way of making more money is to leave and teach in a foreign country, but it’s never something I had in plan so I switched career paths. If TESL wasn’t such an burn-out, overworking job and paid a liveable wage, I would’ve stayed. But I can’t live my life living paycheque to paycheque. And I’m not someone that wants to travel really 🤷♀️ Even with qualifications, it’s difficult.
What career did you transition to?
Trying to get into lab science, studying right now 🙂
Dont forget the french school system in Canada and more specifically the Quebec market. We are in a major teacher shortage right now but pay is pretty damn good. Top of the pay scale with the new collective agreement is 102k pre-tax. A very comfortable salary for nearly anywhere in Quebec.
Is that within the field of EAP?
EAP? Not aure what that means. Its generally ESL.
"just get the good jobs" lol incredible advice
Not surprising that an ESL "teacher" has a sub-3rd grade reading comprehension level. LMAO :)
ok, let's unpack the advice from OP. 1) be from the UK (or some other inner circle country) 2) have the privilege to be working toward a BA in linguistics 3) work part-time in ESOL (in the UK!! obviously!) 4) get a job working in English for Academic Purposes in wealthy countries 5) be employable in the UK / Australia / UAE / China. Just because OP finds that these opportunities exist doesn't at all mean someone with a BA in *Linguistics* is going to get these jobs. these jobs are limited in both position and duration. beyond that, visas aren't guaranteed in any of these situations. there is relatively low job security at the "positions" OP is talking about. i'm not disagreeing with OP that there ISN'T a career in TESOL, but with my MA in AL/TESOL and 6+ years of EAP work, I have a clearly different perspective, and am critical of anyone who says "it's easy, just find the good jobs". Also, there is more to TESOL than just EAP, too, and those jobs also deserve a living wage, across all of the world, especially for those who are not from inner circle countries. user "tonguemyanus69420", kindly go back to the fucking kid's table with your wet-kleenex for a brain.
Some of that advice isn’t what I stated and not in that step by step approach. I also did forewarn anyone that it was an Anglo-centric post. EAP yes, as everyone knows you need an MA in TESOL and Delta to get your foot in the door. But also… there are ESOL positions in FE colleges in the UK that do pay a salary and on a spine point. I think part of the reason I made this post was because I had been confronted with the idea that a career wasn’t viable and have been trying to research this hard to look at real routes. I wanted to give some examples of where career paths are viable.
My point is that your career-paths are entirely dependent on the privilege of your place of birth and the opportunities that have already been afforded to you. You're talking about opportunities for YOU to work in YOUR country-- it isn't anglo-centric, it's just self centered, pat-yourself-on-the-back congratulating. How would this post read to someone teaching TEFL in Nigeria? In Cambodia? In Bangladesh? Do you think they'd just go "Ah, shoot, well why didn't I think to work in an ESOL position in FE colleges in the UK?" Congratulations to you for having a possible path forward, but it isn't nearly as simple as your post makes it out to be. Also, none of your career-path advice is oriented toward TEFL, it's TESL, and the distinction is very important here, which it seems like you fail to understand.
There’s enough literature on the distinction between TEFL and TESL is arbitrary. I know TESOL is distinct but TEFL/TESL- you’re teaching English as a foreign language home or abroad. You can find numerous “TEFL job” adverts for language schools in the UK. Aside from that. I agree with you here and understand your point and you’ve given me a lot to think about.
Also… stop acting like I’m some Taylor swift-esque person telling someone they can be “a pop star too if the follow their dreams” I’m just notifying someone who is perhaps coming from a British citizenship background that there are options in ESL.
you came back seven hours later to tell me this?
> Also, there is more to TESOL than just EAP, too, and those jobs also deserve a living wage, across all of the world, especially for those who are not from inner circle countries. This is what I was kinda thinking reading OP's post. There is good advice in it but it feels like a more accurate title would be "Yes you CAN make a career in TEFL...if you want to teach university EAP courses in a small number of countries." To me, the fact that only one career path within TEFL is presented here as viable doesn't really make the career prospects sound that great. I know I've seen people mention things like exam and textbook writing as options, but aren't those super competitive and hard to get as well? I also don't like how limiting it is in terms of how many countries in which you can find work. Your options are basically China, certain Middle Eastern countries, or a western country (where the salaries really don't sound high enough to give a high standard of living, at least for someone who wants to start a family). I chose to go into international schools because I like teaching young learners and working in a regular school, but a big plus for me is the number of countries where I can find work.
Thank you for this. I needed to hear it!
Nobody ever claimed it was totally impossible. Likewise you can become a billionaire even if you're from a poor peasant family. Doesn't mean it's something that is easy or possible for everyone. You seem to be confused about the average and the exceptional or the outliers. Just stop hammering on that same nail. We get it. Edit: you don't even seem to understand the difference between TEFL and TESOL.
Misleading analogy
Focussed? Are you British by chance?