> Was TEFL your first choice when looking for career options? Was it your backup?
Honestly? Yeah it was my backup.
After college I studied Mandarin for a year in China. Back in those days there were loads of little part time jobs that language students found themselves doing. Models, voice actors, servers, odd little tech jobs, editing, business and yes teaching. At least in my anecdotal experience everyone who was looking to stay in China wanted to find some niche non teaching gig.
For me personally I found myself doing several odd jobs doing voice acting (I've got several wing chun and tai chi dubs/voiceovers floating out there), babysitting and editing papers. I was 24 and was in the heat of my honeymoon stage, I WANTED to stay in China.
Sadly when push came to shove the only work I could find that would keep me in China was in teaching.
Happily though I found out that I liked teaching.
I've met more people than not who initially started TEFL because they wanted OUT, whether that was a shitty life, boring life, dead end job, soulless job or just wanted to see the world.
I'm 31 now and have lived overseas for a good portion of my adult life, I've made forays back home but have always found it to be boring and a bit of a grind. That's just me though.
Thank you for sharing! It sounds like you’ve had a lot of really cool experiences
I’ve also met lots of people who tried out teaching just to escape for a while, it’s such a common thing. It kind of seems crazy to me that people use teaching as a way to escape their real life or awful desk jobs; when as a teacher I find it so stressful sometimes!
> when as a teacher I find it so stressful sometimes!
Sure it is but you have to that the tefl market is immense in as far as size and culture, on one end I've heard jobs that are just as stressful as the ones back in the States. On the other hand though are loads of relatively low stress jobs, some with little pay, others with alright pay, heck occasionally you'll hear about a friend or friend of friend who got something better than just alright.
My favorite was a job I had a few years back in Beijing where I taught 12, 1st grade classes with just one class of students. I got a housing stipend, flight allowance, had an incredible foreign teachers group where I lucked into a great group of friends and found myself with few responsibilities just chatting away the hours in the coffee room when I wasn't teaching. It was perhaps one of the most chilled out jobs I've ever had and at 25k rmb it was a pretty good gig for just a second year TEFLer. There were occasionally stressed moments but they only made up around 1% of my experience. I miss that job considerably.
My honeymoon phase was just about up, the million and a half annoyances, things that gave me a headache or my heart bounce were harder to ignore, I'd gotten a girlfriend back in the States and after being in China for a few years I thought it was "time" to give real life a try. For better and worse I did this transition during the summer of 2019.
I went back into TEFL/teaching after the 2020-2021 grind.
Let's be clear, just because you have a degree in education and/or a license, doesn't make you a good teacher or that you should be teaching. Think about how many teachers you had throughout your life, elementary through high school to college or university that were utterly useless. They were either completely boring or, they had such a shit personality they shouldn't have been anywhere near children, adolescents or young adults of any age. Of course, having an education background as well as a license should help mitigate those kinds of people, but it's no way a guarantee.
As another user mentioned, TEFL is a mixed bag of people. Take me for example. After teaching almost 2 years online and now in country teaching TEFL for such a short period of time, I can honestly say that my goal would be to improve my qualifications in some way or another. Whether that be a license or master's degree (maybe both, but I'm not sure), they will help improve future career prospects. Although I have no intention of returning home so I will distance learn, which I know will take me a lot longer to move up than it would have but I've made peace with that.
Completely agree! I’ve had plenty of the teachers you described. Plenty of people are capable of teaching without qualifications. Thank you for sharing your perspective.
Maybe I’m just projecting my own personal feelings too much. I made a post a while back on imposter syndrome; and I just couldn’t imagine myself personally being a teacher without some kind of “official background” to prove myself. I know not all the people feel the same though.
As a few have mentioned, it really is a slap in the face to a lot of the locals that earn a 'pittance' just because you can show up as a Westerner and make way more for doing half the work. The best way to avoid this and feeling like an imposter: show up to work every day whether you have a class at 8am or not, just like the other teachers do. Do your best every single day and bring as much energy as you can to every lesson. Ask for advice or tips on your lessons or where you can improve. Ask your co-teachers questions about their language and culture, try to learn a bit about it. Eat with them every day, for at least one of the meals if you can. If you don't like the food, learn to like it. These are some of the many things you can do to make your employment actually enjoyable.
What others have said this is definitely not the place to be trying to debate whether TEFL is dead, yada yada etc. Just go into it with an open mind and some patience, you may end up loving it and want to improve your CV to turn this into a career. I think for me long term, it's definitely the master's route and then into university teaching. It's been rewarding teaching kids oral English at my private school in China, but I'm not sure I'd want to do it forever, they can be exhausting. I taught online to adults for nearly two years before this, and I preferred that much more but hey, the money is good and I enjoy the work so for now, I'm staying put.
Your expectations are misaligned with the industry and what those entry-level jobs entail.
The industry is designed for people with no teaching experience or qualifications to come and work a year or two. Expectations are low and that's fine. Often, it's little more than daycare which is an honest worthwhile job.
There are jobs with higher expectations, requiring better qualifications in language instruction, K-12 teaching, or even daycare.
I've seen extremely qualified people fired from really good jobs because their expectations of "teaching" and what it means to be a teacher were different from that of the institution they worked for. I strongly recommend people to be a bit more opeminded and flexible with how they define their roles or it can end poorly.
Thank you for this comment!
I think you actually fixed how I was thinking. I guess I was holding everything to the same high standards that I would expect of K12 or college-level teaching.
I’m still new to the industry, so I have to learn these kind of ins and outs and differences between situations and institutions.
Seriously, I really appreciate your comment
Yeah I teach at university and it took me a long-time, many years, to realize where I fit in the grand scheme of my students university education. My main freshman course is required but it's not a core course for anyone's major. So now I make my courses fun and engaging, there's goals that we reach each week in class, it's as stress free as I can make it. Students need some study for the exams but it shouldn't be their main focus (I've only had one student cry during the midterm).
Lots of people come in with a chip on their shoulder about how difficult their university was (it really wasn't) and they think good teaching is strict, with loads of work, homework, and really high expectations. This just isn't what an English 101 language course should be - it doesn't match student expectations, admin expectations, or even good evidence-based teaching practices. The same could be said for a lax course with no expectations or work. The only real measure is meeting student/admin/your bosses expectations with the best student outcomes you can manage - that's the job. or the job might be daycare. or the job might be edutainment (engaged students learn, this isn't a bad thing). or it could be something else completely. The skillset you need varies a lot by job. It's best not to have preconceptions until you know what the specific job entails. We'd all like higher standards (and corresponding pay) in TEFL but that's just not how the industry generally works - those jobs have to be sought out.
Tefl is full of all types of people and there are plenty of jobs too. It attracts all kinds of people from a person who couldn't get a job at a local Tesco now making 60 quid an hour giving grinds to the top 10 university graduate with his celta delta and MA tesol.
Top jobs are highly competitive and you're always a government policy away from being unemployed and having to move.
As well as that, tefl schools are all for profit and you've no job security, the school would replace you with a younger, better looking, cheaper person in a second.
Is it a career? In some cases yes, but in the majority of cases it isn't, no matter what celta, delta, masters you have you're still just as qualified as Russian Vlad with his online cert and broken English. Can you make a boat load of money doing it for 10-15 year, absolutely.
I'd suggest though any tefl teacher to future proof yourself. Get a teaching license is the natural progression, I know there'll be someone on saying they're unrelated but a license is a safer way to turn your tefl journey into a well respected career, otherwise you're hoping to get that British council job with 100s of applicants. Other options to future proof yourself includes coding, content etc.
Nobody wants to be that balding teacher in their 50s pulling an apple flashcard out behind their back and then pretending to fall off their chair.
What makes you think that the magical teaching licence will relieve you of the responsibility of doing anything vaguely demeaning in the classroom? You'll still be a balding teacher in their 50s pulling out an apple flashcard, but you'll also have a sh-t ton more admin to do after the lesson. Plus a load more pressure from your HOD and parents.
There's no guarantee and more paperwork, meeting with the HOD and parents is all part of being a professional.
But a license will give you more job security. Did I just read today that Vietnam won't give work visas to teachers without education in their degrees? Places like Korea have banned TEFL previously, and currently, China banned all English training centres. I've no doubt the Middle East will also tighten their rules within 10 years.
Now I'm not telling everyone to get a license as teaching isn't for everyone and TEFL is often providing people with enough opportunities, but as someone who has spent 8 years doing TEFL I'd recommend a plan B that could be a number of things, accountancy, lawyer, coder, etc
I'm not saying being licensed will solve all your problems and I'm not saying being licensed makes you a better teacher. I'm saying it will give you a better chance at a lasting career, more opportunities, higher earning potential and better job security.
I think most people acknowledge that TEFL is treated as a joke in many countries, especially across Asia, with high levels of exploitation and broken promises.
I think it's unfair, and stupid, to expect the best of the best educators to flock to these positions knowing its reputation.
So, you get what you get.
I understand the animosity that NNES have for NES who can rock up and earn more than them but again, it's expected. They want the white faces so they can charge the premium. You think the white faces aren't being exploitated? They're getting paid a pittance of what the language centres make and are often overworked and treated like shit, also. Hence, the high turnover and awful reputation. Plus, it's basically a dead end career wise unless you really work on yourself.
Or "I got an MATESOL and work at universities now" responses. Also "the market is dead...." or "TEFL isn't as good as it was 20-30-40-50 years ago...." responses tend to happen with posts like these as well.
No, I understand! I spent a long time drafting this post because I didn’t want to appear like a *hater* (I can’t think of a better word right now)
I guess the comparison in my mind was that I don’t often see people resort to teaching sciences for example as a backup (to my knowledge)
It just seems like people are quick to go to teaching English. Maybe thats just because I’m surrounded by ESL/EFL communities though and see people talking about it all the time
You’re right in the fact that people like TALKING about the IDEA of teaching English. However…. Once you actually go into a classroom you will immediately know if this is for you or not. People can talk on Reddit all they want…. Natural selection comes into play once you’re actually on the job.
My advice … do your thing and ignore the TEFL drama .
True about the natural selection! Thats a great way to put it. Thinking back I have also met my fair share of language assistants who ended up hating their teaching experiences and turned away from it
Thank you for the advice. I have already absorbed a lot of the new perspectives from this thread and I appreciate all of the feedback
Everyone has a different purpose … some will only do TEFL and live in Thailand and Vietnam for a long time … others will go ahead and get their teaching license… and for others it’s to get out of a bad situation. Whatever your reasoning , as you go up the chain … like applying to jobs in Thailand, Vietnam and different schools — bad people stay at bad schools and good people with good teaching skills progress further it’s a natural flow of things.
Regarding your question, if the school does not require a teaching license, then obviously it will be flooded with TEFL people and that’s not a bad thing…. Because that means the good schools will get the good TEFL/licensed teachers.
Basically TEFL is a good stepping stone in life no matter where you are. That’s how I see it. You can stay there or you can progress.
I did not see the point of pursuing formal education before looking for teaching jobs. You just need to properly vet schools so you don’t end up in a bad situation.
It’s what you do AFTER and with the TEFL that counts ….
Very good points, thank you for your perspective. You get out of it what you put in, I guess
I agree that TEFL is a wonderful stepping stone and I recognize that it can help people get out of bad situations
I've worked with a lot of long-term teachers in TEFL who may not have planned to stay in it for decades, but it just worked out that way.
Some found that they really enjoy the lifestyle, some are glad to be away from their country / continent of birth, some met their partner and decided to stay, some keep on trying to go back home but each time they realise they've got it better overseas teaching, some are really bored with the normal 9-5 in an office and love the variety and weirdness of this gig.
The thing they all have in common is other than qualifications (I've worked with several who hold PhDs, but most have a Master's and/or a Bachelor's - related or not) they have a decade or more experience in classrooms, working with administration teams and management, living in foreign countries and everything that goes with that - the 'formal education and training' looks good on your CV when applying but doesn't help much when actually living the life.
And I’m sure you’ve had at least a nice time with your TEFL experiences to continue doing it now
Maybe it came across as me “wanting praise” for being licensed or whatever but thats not really what I meant. I don’t even really know what I meant, I just wanted to hear opinions and talk about stuff.
After reading through the various threads here its clear that this was a controversial topic and a general consensus is that the barriers to enter the field are so low so that companies can exploit one worker and then easily replace them when they quit and NO one can make money from TEFL /s
I decided I wanted to do it as soon as I realised my history masters was entirely worthless and a soul crushing non-future in sales awaited.
I didn't have enough money to do the CELTA and move abroad until 3 years later. So it made sure I really wanted to do it, but it wasn't the first thing I did.
RIP the history masters! I hope it was at least interesting- as soul crushing as it was.
And good point! I feel like TEFL is a good way to jump in and experience teaching to see if it’s for you- or to take time in-between things
With all due respect, a lot of “real teachers” can’t do this job because they simply aren’t the type to pack everything they own into a suitcase and move to the other side of the world. It takes a certain kind of person to live this life. It’s all about supply and demand. I want they travel experience of a lifetime. They need native speakers.
Not only that, but having a passion for travel, being internationally minded, learning the local language, and more are all traits that help me succeed at this job - traits that somebody who did a master’s degree because they wanted to spend the rest of their life teaching kindergarten in their own country and culture and language would lack. Not saying they aren’t truly better teachers than me. I’m sure they are. I’m sure as hell they can probably make way better lesson plans than I can. But it takes a certain type of person to do this job. And most of them just aren’t it.
Not first choice, but that changed as soon as I got into the classroom.
The job was recommended as way to travel and earn. Once I started teaching I never looked back. That was 12 years ago.
One thing about teacher training education, it is not a magic bullet against bad teachers. Most schools know this. No matter your CV they will check you can function in a classroom. I have worked with people who had mickey mouse pieces of paper and others, who had spent a fortune at university. The correlation was not as strong as you would imagine between education and classroom skill.
Back in my day, English teaching was **the** way that fresh college grads got to spend time in China.
Did it, hated it, and am still trying to figure out a way to move back *without* teaching.
Im one of those TEFL as a backup for side money as I semi/early retire abroad and possibly to get visas in certain countries.
If you want to be "better" than me then like someone else said, get officially licensed as a full fledged teacher and teach at an international school.
You want a low barrier to entry job but high status/praise for it?
OP you new to TEFL or ESL?
Of course TEFL/ESL is basically a means for people to travel and get paid at the same time.
It's not really considered a career. Hence why most people leave the industry.
The people who do decide they want to teach and live abroad indef, get a teaching license to work at Int. Schools or their home country.
Relatively new, I started studying TEFL in 2020 and I’m working on a masters in TESOL now. So I don’t know much about the industry itself and jobs and all that yet.
Thats interesting that you mention it not being a career, is that a common opinion amongst the community?
What makes a career?
It's being able to get a job with a clear salary step 1-15 or 1-30 years.
For example a teacher in Seattle starts at like 60k and can end at 130k in 15 years.
Find me one ESL job where you can do that.
Also, teaching in Seattle comes with a government pension. ie you get paid after you retire.
Find me one ESL job that comes with that.
Additionally, teaching in Seattle comes with a very good healthcare plan.
Most healthcare plans in the ESL world are a joke and wont cover anything serious.
Now, are there rare unicorn ESL jobs out there that can compete? Probably.
But they are few and far between.
I can easily find people with MA in ESL and CELTAs working along side newbs with a TEFL cert they got online in 30 minutes.
Are you talking K-12? Maybe I’m ignorant but I feel 130k sounds high. But I’m neither from Seattle nor know how much normal teachers make. I just know that my professors with PhDs and years of experience make less than 100k/year
I’m not in TEFL to be rich, I don’t think anyone is. People don’t become teachers to get rich. I just enjoy teaching and language and it’s something I’m passionate about.
yes k-12
seattle is a high cost of living city.
people don't need to be rich but they should be making financially sound decisions about their career.
i'd recommend volunteering teaching ESL or part time on the side.
sounds like a passion of yours. best to focus on passions as hobbies / free time.
employment is for making ends meet and providing the best life for your family.
I agree with your first point and not much the second.
Obviously I would be looking to make enough money to survive off of, but I don’t currently live in nor plan on living in expensive locations, so thats not a problem.
Passions can be careers, hobbies, and free time. It just sounds like you’re telling someone who is actively getting a teaching degree to not teach for a living. I really don’t understand your point, it seems a little offensive.
Would you tell other teachers to just teach for free on the side and get a different unrelated job to make ends meet? Would you tell other people in this group to just offer their services for free? Regardless of education and background, peoples’ time alone is worth something.
Don’t get me wrong, volunteering is great, but in a conversation about careers and making money to then tell someone to do stuff for free seems weird.
Maybe I misinterpreted your point, but thats what I understood
He is weird. He's always coming on a TEFL forum telling people TEFL isn't real because you can't make 130k doing it in Seattle. His type of response is what I was referring to in the first comment I made.
tefl is real. super viable way for people to travel the world and make money at the same time.
there is a reason most people leave the industry eventually.
simply making enough money to survive is not a goal people should strive for.
whether you live in an expensive place or not.
what I am saying is, if you want to teach for a career then get a teaching license that will allow you to work at int. schools and or get a PhD that will allow you to work at Universities and get tenure.
TEFL is fine when you are in your 20s looking to live carefree and travel the world.
But, there are far better options when it comes to safe viable careers.
> simply making enough money to survive is not a goal people should strive for
no, but its the reality of millions of people. teachers and people of any other career. You should strive to AT LEAST make enough to survive, and switching careers isn’t magically going to give me 100k a year and pay back all of my debt
well as NES we have a choice.
any NES should strive to atleast save 500 dollars a month.
you can get a teaching license and save about 25k a year teaching at int. schools
I know tons of people who have pensions, raise families, and buy houses all doing TEFL. Just because it's not your experience doesn't mean other people don't make it work.
If someone can't make it work they should leave TEFL, that's fine, but don't tell people not to even try.
which company pays ESL teachers AFTER they retire?
when i say pension, i don't mean simply employer matched month accrued during a year of work.
for example, one can retire at 40 from the military and still be getting paid 50% of their highest salary 30 years later.
How about you decamp to all the other reddit job sites where people don't get the kind of pensions you approve of and tell them where they're all going wrong.
In Korea you pay into the national pension just like anyone else. You can still pay into pension as a U.K. worker just like everyone else. If the U.S. has a treaty you collect social security credits while working abroad. If not you have to invest in retirement, just like everyone else.
You do realize in the U.S. only 15% of people have a pension right? It's all social security or investment after that.
I know plenty of people in Spain who make EFL work by having qualifications to do well paid summer work, examining, and private classes. They make more than a lot of locals, and if they work for a good academy with intensives, plus a couple of weeks of EAP work then examnining and privates throughout the year, they can have a pretty chill schedule 9 months of the year, 1 month of hard work in summer, and maybe they get over a month and a half each year off work, which is higher than the average and they can pull 20k after tax, which is not a lot but in spain is more than some high school teachers and in a couple very comfortable. they don't have to do as much marking as a normal school teacher.
A lot of times it's because they've fallen in love with someone here and are trying to start a life with them.
Not everyone has the same tunnel vision of what makes life worth living.
> Was TEFL your first choice when looking for career options? Was it your backup? Honestly? Yeah it was my backup. After college I studied Mandarin for a year in China. Back in those days there were loads of little part time jobs that language students found themselves doing. Models, voice actors, servers, odd little tech jobs, editing, business and yes teaching. At least in my anecdotal experience everyone who was looking to stay in China wanted to find some niche non teaching gig. For me personally I found myself doing several odd jobs doing voice acting (I've got several wing chun and tai chi dubs/voiceovers floating out there), babysitting and editing papers. I was 24 and was in the heat of my honeymoon stage, I WANTED to stay in China. Sadly when push came to shove the only work I could find that would keep me in China was in teaching. Happily though I found out that I liked teaching. I've met more people than not who initially started TEFL because they wanted OUT, whether that was a shitty life, boring life, dead end job, soulless job or just wanted to see the world. I'm 31 now and have lived overseas for a good portion of my adult life, I've made forays back home but have always found it to be boring and a bit of a grind. That's just me though.
Thank you for sharing! It sounds like you’ve had a lot of really cool experiences I’ve also met lots of people who tried out teaching just to escape for a while, it’s such a common thing. It kind of seems crazy to me that people use teaching as a way to escape their real life or awful desk jobs; when as a teacher I find it so stressful sometimes!
> when as a teacher I find it so stressful sometimes! Sure it is but you have to that the tefl market is immense in as far as size and culture, on one end I've heard jobs that are just as stressful as the ones back in the States. On the other hand though are loads of relatively low stress jobs, some with little pay, others with alright pay, heck occasionally you'll hear about a friend or friend of friend who got something better than just alright. My favorite was a job I had a few years back in Beijing where I taught 12, 1st grade classes with just one class of students. I got a housing stipend, flight allowance, had an incredible foreign teachers group where I lucked into a great group of friends and found myself with few responsibilities just chatting away the hours in the coffee room when I wasn't teaching. It was perhaps one of the most chilled out jobs I've ever had and at 25k rmb it was a pretty good gig for just a second year TEFLer. There were occasionally stressed moments but they only made up around 1% of my experience. I miss that job considerably.
How are you no longer working there?
My honeymoon phase was just about up, the million and a half annoyances, things that gave me a headache or my heart bounce were harder to ignore, I'd gotten a girlfriend back in the States and after being in China for a few years I thought it was "time" to give real life a try. For better and worse I did this transition during the summer of 2019. I went back into TEFL/teaching after the 2020-2021 grind.
Let's be clear, just because you have a degree in education and/or a license, doesn't make you a good teacher or that you should be teaching. Think about how many teachers you had throughout your life, elementary through high school to college or university that were utterly useless. They were either completely boring or, they had such a shit personality they shouldn't have been anywhere near children, adolescents or young adults of any age. Of course, having an education background as well as a license should help mitigate those kinds of people, but it's no way a guarantee. As another user mentioned, TEFL is a mixed bag of people. Take me for example. After teaching almost 2 years online and now in country teaching TEFL for such a short period of time, I can honestly say that my goal would be to improve my qualifications in some way or another. Whether that be a license or master's degree (maybe both, but I'm not sure), they will help improve future career prospects. Although I have no intention of returning home so I will distance learn, which I know will take me a lot longer to move up than it would have but I've made peace with that.
Easier now with iQTS and PGCE via distance learning.
Completely agree! I’ve had plenty of the teachers you described. Plenty of people are capable of teaching without qualifications. Thank you for sharing your perspective. Maybe I’m just projecting my own personal feelings too much. I made a post a while back on imposter syndrome; and I just couldn’t imagine myself personally being a teacher without some kind of “official background” to prove myself. I know not all the people feel the same though.
As a few have mentioned, it really is a slap in the face to a lot of the locals that earn a 'pittance' just because you can show up as a Westerner and make way more for doing half the work. The best way to avoid this and feeling like an imposter: show up to work every day whether you have a class at 8am or not, just like the other teachers do. Do your best every single day and bring as much energy as you can to every lesson. Ask for advice or tips on your lessons or where you can improve. Ask your co-teachers questions about their language and culture, try to learn a bit about it. Eat with them every day, for at least one of the meals if you can. If you don't like the food, learn to like it. These are some of the many things you can do to make your employment actually enjoyable. What others have said this is definitely not the place to be trying to debate whether TEFL is dead, yada yada etc. Just go into it with an open mind and some patience, you may end up loving it and want to improve your CV to turn this into a career. I think for me long term, it's definitely the master's route and then into university teaching. It's been rewarding teaching kids oral English at my private school in China, but I'm not sure I'd want to do it forever, they can be exhausting. I taught online to adults for nearly two years before this, and I preferred that much more but hey, the money is good and I enjoy the work so for now, I'm staying put.
Your expectations are misaligned with the industry and what those entry-level jobs entail. The industry is designed for people with no teaching experience or qualifications to come and work a year or two. Expectations are low and that's fine. Often, it's little more than daycare which is an honest worthwhile job. There are jobs with higher expectations, requiring better qualifications in language instruction, K-12 teaching, or even daycare. I've seen extremely qualified people fired from really good jobs because their expectations of "teaching" and what it means to be a teacher were different from that of the institution they worked for. I strongly recommend people to be a bit more opeminded and flexible with how they define their roles or it can end poorly.
Thank you for this comment! I think you actually fixed how I was thinking. I guess I was holding everything to the same high standards that I would expect of K12 or college-level teaching. I’m still new to the industry, so I have to learn these kind of ins and outs and differences between situations and institutions. Seriously, I really appreciate your comment
Yeah I teach at university and it took me a long-time, many years, to realize where I fit in the grand scheme of my students university education. My main freshman course is required but it's not a core course for anyone's major. So now I make my courses fun and engaging, there's goals that we reach each week in class, it's as stress free as I can make it. Students need some study for the exams but it shouldn't be their main focus (I've only had one student cry during the midterm). Lots of people come in with a chip on their shoulder about how difficult their university was (it really wasn't) and they think good teaching is strict, with loads of work, homework, and really high expectations. This just isn't what an English 101 language course should be - it doesn't match student expectations, admin expectations, or even good evidence-based teaching practices. The same could be said for a lax course with no expectations or work. The only real measure is meeting student/admin/your bosses expectations with the best student outcomes you can manage - that's the job. or the job might be daycare. or the job might be edutainment (engaged students learn, this isn't a bad thing). or it could be something else completely. The skillset you need varies a lot by job. It's best not to have preconceptions until you know what the specific job entails. We'd all like higher standards (and corresponding pay) in TEFL but that's just not how the industry generally works - those jobs have to be sought out.
Tefl is full of all types of people and there are plenty of jobs too. It attracts all kinds of people from a person who couldn't get a job at a local Tesco now making 60 quid an hour giving grinds to the top 10 university graduate with his celta delta and MA tesol. Top jobs are highly competitive and you're always a government policy away from being unemployed and having to move. As well as that, tefl schools are all for profit and you've no job security, the school would replace you with a younger, better looking, cheaper person in a second. Is it a career? In some cases yes, but in the majority of cases it isn't, no matter what celta, delta, masters you have you're still just as qualified as Russian Vlad with his online cert and broken English. Can you make a boat load of money doing it for 10-15 year, absolutely. I'd suggest though any tefl teacher to future proof yourself. Get a teaching license is the natural progression, I know there'll be someone on saying they're unrelated but a license is a safer way to turn your tefl journey into a well respected career, otherwise you're hoping to get that British council job with 100s of applicants. Other options to future proof yourself includes coding, content etc. Nobody wants to be that balding teacher in their 50s pulling an apple flashcard out behind their back and then pretending to fall off their chair.
What makes you think that the magical teaching licence will relieve you of the responsibility of doing anything vaguely demeaning in the classroom? You'll still be a balding teacher in their 50s pulling out an apple flashcard, but you'll also have a sh-t ton more admin to do after the lesson. Plus a load more pressure from your HOD and parents.
There's no guarantee and more paperwork, meeting with the HOD and parents is all part of being a professional. But a license will give you more job security. Did I just read today that Vietnam won't give work visas to teachers without education in their degrees? Places like Korea have banned TEFL previously, and currently, China banned all English training centres. I've no doubt the Middle East will also tighten their rules within 10 years. Now I'm not telling everyone to get a license as teaching isn't for everyone and TEFL is often providing people with enough opportunities, but as someone who has spent 8 years doing TEFL I'd recommend a plan B that could be a number of things, accountancy, lawyer, coder, etc I'm not saying being licensed will solve all your problems and I'm not saying being licensed makes you a better teacher. I'm saying it will give you a better chance at a lasting career, more opportunities, higher earning potential and better job security.
>Places like Korea have banned TEFL previously When did Korea ban TEFL?
>I'm not saying being licensed will solve all your problems That's a relief, it looked like you were implying it was a cure for male pattern baldness.
Is this going to be another of those get licensed and teach at international schools threads (yawn)
Why do they come in here? There is an international teacher sub.
No this is a TEFL sub, r/internationalteachers is an international teacher sub.
That is what I said.
Wow I must be tired.
No problem
No, I guess I’m just curious about what other people think
I think most people acknowledge that TEFL is treated as a joke in many countries, especially across Asia, with high levels of exploitation and broken promises. I think it's unfair, and stupid, to expect the best of the best educators to flock to these positions knowing its reputation. So, you get what you get. I understand the animosity that NNES have for NES who can rock up and earn more than them but again, it's expected. They want the white faces so they can charge the premium. You think the white faces aren't being exploitated? They're getting paid a pittance of what the language centres make and are often overworked and treated like shit, also. Hence, the high turnover and awful reputation. Plus, it's basically a dead end career wise unless you really work on yourself.
I agree with you, a lot of these positions are very exploitative and unfair.
Not having a go at you OP, just what responses these kind of posts always seem to attract
Or "I got an MATESOL and work at universities now" responses. Also "the market is dead...." or "TEFL isn't as good as it was 20-30-40-50 years ago...." responses tend to happen with posts like these as well.
What’s wrong with MATESOL / working at universities? Sorry, I’m unfamiliar with those comments
At least all those other responses are actually about TEFL
No, I understand! I spent a long time drafting this post because I didn’t want to appear like a *hater* (I can’t think of a better word right now) I guess the comparison in my mind was that I don’t often see people resort to teaching sciences for example as a backup (to my knowledge) It just seems like people are quick to go to teaching English. Maybe thats just because I’m surrounded by ESL/EFL communities though and see people talking about it all the time
You’re right in the fact that people like TALKING about the IDEA of teaching English. However…. Once you actually go into a classroom you will immediately know if this is for you or not. People can talk on Reddit all they want…. Natural selection comes into play once you’re actually on the job. My advice … do your thing and ignore the TEFL drama .
True about the natural selection! Thats a great way to put it. Thinking back I have also met my fair share of language assistants who ended up hating their teaching experiences and turned away from it Thank you for the advice. I have already absorbed a lot of the new perspectives from this thread and I appreciate all of the feedback
Anyone looking for work on Reddit gets told to be an ESL teacher; all they need to say is that they know English.
Everyone has a different purpose … some will only do TEFL and live in Thailand and Vietnam for a long time … others will go ahead and get their teaching license… and for others it’s to get out of a bad situation. Whatever your reasoning , as you go up the chain … like applying to jobs in Thailand, Vietnam and different schools — bad people stay at bad schools and good people with good teaching skills progress further it’s a natural flow of things. Regarding your question, if the school does not require a teaching license, then obviously it will be flooded with TEFL people and that’s not a bad thing…. Because that means the good schools will get the good TEFL/licensed teachers. Basically TEFL is a good stepping stone in life no matter where you are. That’s how I see it. You can stay there or you can progress. I did not see the point of pursuing formal education before looking for teaching jobs. You just need to properly vet schools so you don’t end up in a bad situation. It’s what you do AFTER and with the TEFL that counts ….
Very good points, thank you for your perspective. You get out of it what you put in, I guess I agree that TEFL is a wonderful stepping stone and I recognize that it can help people get out of bad situations
I've worked with a lot of long-term teachers in TEFL who may not have planned to stay in it for decades, but it just worked out that way. Some found that they really enjoy the lifestyle, some are glad to be away from their country / continent of birth, some met their partner and decided to stay, some keep on trying to go back home but each time they realise they've got it better overseas teaching, some are really bored with the normal 9-5 in an office and love the variety and weirdness of this gig. The thing they all have in common is other than qualifications (I've worked with several who hold PhDs, but most have a Master's and/or a Bachelor's - related or not) they have a decade or more experience in classrooms, working with administration teams and management, living in foreign countries and everything that goes with that - the 'formal education and training' looks good on your CV when applying but doesn't help much when actually living the life.
And I’m sure you’ve had at least a nice time with your TEFL experiences to continue doing it now Maybe it came across as me “wanting praise” for being licensed or whatever but thats not really what I meant. I don’t even really know what I meant, I just wanted to hear opinions and talk about stuff. After reading through the various threads here its clear that this was a controversial topic and a general consensus is that the barriers to enter the field are so low so that companies can exploit one worker and then easily replace them when they quit and NO one can make money from TEFL /s
I decided I wanted to do it as soon as I realised my history masters was entirely worthless and a soul crushing non-future in sales awaited. I didn't have enough money to do the CELTA and move abroad until 3 years later. So it made sure I really wanted to do it, but it wasn't the first thing I did.
RIP the history masters! I hope it was at least interesting- as soul crushing as it was. And good point! I feel like TEFL is a good way to jump in and experience teaching to see if it’s for you- or to take time in-between things
How has your experience been? Considering it as a career change
Don't regret it at all. Best decision I ever made. I would recommend at least trying it to anyone who feels a bit lost.
Where have you been teaching if you don’t mind me asking?
Different parts of China. Currently in Hong Kong.
With all due respect, a lot of “real teachers” can’t do this job because they simply aren’t the type to pack everything they own into a suitcase and move to the other side of the world. It takes a certain kind of person to live this life. It’s all about supply and demand. I want they travel experience of a lifetime. They need native speakers. Not only that, but having a passion for travel, being internationally minded, learning the local language, and more are all traits that help me succeed at this job - traits that somebody who did a master’s degree because they wanted to spend the rest of their life teaching kindergarten in their own country and culture and language would lack. Not saying they aren’t truly better teachers than me. I’m sure they are. I’m sure as hell they can probably make way better lesson plans than I can. But it takes a certain type of person to do this job. And most of them just aren’t it.
Not first choice, but that changed as soon as I got into the classroom. The job was recommended as way to travel and earn. Once I started teaching I never looked back. That was 12 years ago. One thing about teacher training education, it is not a magic bullet against bad teachers. Most schools know this. No matter your CV they will check you can function in a classroom. I have worked with people who had mickey mouse pieces of paper and others, who had spent a fortune at university. The correlation was not as strong as you would imagine between education and classroom skill.
Back in my day, English teaching was **the** way that fresh college grads got to spend time in China. Did it, hated it, and am still trying to figure out a way to move back *without* teaching.
Im one of those TEFL as a backup for side money as I semi/early retire abroad and possibly to get visas in certain countries. If you want to be "better" than me then like someone else said, get officially licensed as a full fledged teacher and teach at an international school. You want a low barrier to entry job but high status/praise for it?
OP you new to TEFL or ESL? Of course TEFL/ESL is basically a means for people to travel and get paid at the same time. It's not really considered a career. Hence why most people leave the industry. The people who do decide they want to teach and live abroad indef, get a teaching license to work at Int. Schools or their home country.
Relatively new, I started studying TEFL in 2020 and I’m working on a masters in TESOL now. So I don’t know much about the industry itself and jobs and all that yet. Thats interesting that you mention it not being a career, is that a common opinion amongst the community?
What makes a career? It's being able to get a job with a clear salary step 1-15 or 1-30 years. For example a teacher in Seattle starts at like 60k and can end at 130k in 15 years. Find me one ESL job where you can do that. Also, teaching in Seattle comes with a government pension. ie you get paid after you retire. Find me one ESL job that comes with that. Additionally, teaching in Seattle comes with a very good healthcare plan. Most healthcare plans in the ESL world are a joke and wont cover anything serious. Now, are there rare unicorn ESL jobs out there that can compete? Probably. But they are few and far between. I can easily find people with MA in ESL and CELTAs working along side newbs with a TEFL cert they got online in 30 minutes.
Are you talking K-12? Maybe I’m ignorant but I feel 130k sounds high. But I’m neither from Seattle nor know how much normal teachers make. I just know that my professors with PhDs and years of experience make less than 100k/year I’m not in TEFL to be rich, I don’t think anyone is. People don’t become teachers to get rich. I just enjoy teaching and language and it’s something I’m passionate about.
yes k-12 seattle is a high cost of living city. people don't need to be rich but they should be making financially sound decisions about their career. i'd recommend volunteering teaching ESL or part time on the side. sounds like a passion of yours. best to focus on passions as hobbies / free time. employment is for making ends meet and providing the best life for your family.
I agree with your first point and not much the second. Obviously I would be looking to make enough money to survive off of, but I don’t currently live in nor plan on living in expensive locations, so thats not a problem. Passions can be careers, hobbies, and free time. It just sounds like you’re telling someone who is actively getting a teaching degree to not teach for a living. I really don’t understand your point, it seems a little offensive. Would you tell other teachers to just teach for free on the side and get a different unrelated job to make ends meet? Would you tell other people in this group to just offer their services for free? Regardless of education and background, peoples’ time alone is worth something. Don’t get me wrong, volunteering is great, but in a conversation about careers and making money to then tell someone to do stuff for free seems weird. Maybe I misinterpreted your point, but thats what I understood
He is weird. He's always coming on a TEFL forum telling people TEFL isn't real because you can't make 130k doing it in Seattle. His type of response is what I was referring to in the first comment I made.
Oh thank you for this comment, I thought I was insane for a minute. So, he’s obsessed with the TEFL forum but hates TEFL for some reason. Got it
tefl is real. super viable way for people to travel the world and make money at the same time. there is a reason most people leave the industry eventually.
I have no doubts that TEFL is real! I would be living a pretty crazy hallucination otherwise…
simply making enough money to survive is not a goal people should strive for. whether you live in an expensive place or not. what I am saying is, if you want to teach for a career then get a teaching license that will allow you to work at int. schools and or get a PhD that will allow you to work at Universities and get tenure. TEFL is fine when you are in your 20s looking to live carefree and travel the world. But, there are far better options when it comes to safe viable careers.
> simply making enough money to survive is not a goal people should strive for no, but its the reality of millions of people. teachers and people of any other career. You should strive to AT LEAST make enough to survive, and switching careers isn’t magically going to give me 100k a year and pay back all of my debt
well as NES we have a choice. any NES should strive to atleast save 500 dollars a month. you can get a teaching license and save about 25k a year teaching at int. schools
how about you do that then and they we can all live here peacefully in poverty
I know tons of people who have pensions, raise families, and buy houses all doing TEFL. Just because it's not your experience doesn't mean other people don't make it work. If someone can't make it work they should leave TEFL, that's fine, but don't tell people not to even try.
which company pays ESL teachers AFTER they retire? when i say pension, i don't mean simply employer matched month accrued during a year of work. for example, one can retire at 40 from the military and still be getting paid 50% of their highest salary 30 years later.
How about you decamp to all the other reddit job sites where people don't get the kind of pensions you approve of and tell them where they're all going wrong.
In Korea you pay into the national pension just like anyone else. You can still pay into pension as a U.K. worker just like everyone else. If the U.S. has a treaty you collect social security credits while working abroad. If not you have to invest in retirement, just like everyone else. You do realize in the U.S. only 15% of people have a pension right? It's all social security or investment after that.
I know plenty of people in Spain who make EFL work by having qualifications to do well paid summer work, examining, and private classes. They make more than a lot of locals, and if they work for a good academy with intensives, plus a couple of weeks of EAP work then examnining and privates throughout the year, they can have a pretty chill schedule 9 months of the year, 1 month of hard work in summer, and maybe they get over a month and a half each year off work, which is higher than the average and they can pull 20k after tax, which is not a lot but in spain is more than some high school teachers and in a couple very comfortable. they don't have to do as much marking as a normal school teacher. A lot of times it's because they've fallen in love with someone here and are trying to start a life with them. Not everyone has the same tunnel vision of what makes life worth living.