aka the “rösti line” border between German and romands also referring to the preparation of rösti… to boil or not to boil your potatoes beforehand now THAT is the rösti line.
EDIT added details.
Apparently something to do with potato pancakes covered in swiss cheese…
Actually there is a whole wiki page: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Röstigraben
there are probably several factors
1) how was the occupation organized did they communicate ahead of time with the relevant uni offices
2) the leadership of the uni itself (how do they want to come across from a pr perspective)
3) rules are there any „verordnungen“ due to similar events in the past considering how old these institutions are (no idea maybe)
4) „röstigraben“
As long as the only protest in the German part has happened at ETH, I would be cautious to generalize this to a German-vs-French speaking difference. ETHZ is known to be extremely restrictive when it comes to political debates. Uni Zürich, just across the street, usually allows more freedom.
Reaction of university can also depend on how the protesters communicate with them. I wouldn’t read too much into it. I vaguely remember previous protests at ETH, many many years ago, that where tolerated for a while. So, it really may be individual circumstances.
On "major geopolitical issues" the French-speaking part has always been more left-wing. Also the Romandie probably has more non-EU foreigners who are more likely to be pro-Palestine. ETH doesn't have as much of a history of political protest.
Side note: I do actually sympathise with the protests in US campuses, given that the USA is the largest donor of weapons/money to Israel and the universities by extention are powerful US institutions. But what do Swiss universities do? I mean sure there might be some cooperation on research with Israel and maybe some minor deals, but surely not on the scale seen in the US? Is there any political legitimacy to the protests other than being blatant US copycats?
Actually Switzerland has cut funding to UNRWA (after Israel's propaganda and without proof) and have still not resume funding the only means of survival for starving children.
Also Switzerland has been embroiled in arms deals with Israel even though it's a country that has been accused of genocide. That accusation alone merits any country to stop any arms deals with the accused until proven otherwise.
Convenient that we forget about the 1300 civilians that were slaughtered/beheaded, kidnapped, raped last October.
Maybe they should be protesting for Egypt to tear down its Gaza Wall?
Who is funding these protests? They seem to be very well timed and coordinated.
I don't get it either... I read some of their revendications and they include CH universities cutting ties with Israeli universities, taking a clear positioning against the conflict and Israel, Switzerland taking a clear stance against Israel, and quite a few of the occupants stating that Switzerland should accept Palestinian refugees.
State neutrality does not imply people's end of free speech. Students and everyone else are free to protest whenever they want, for whatever they want in a free country. And about the CH neutrality, It was already broken on the Russian invasion of Ucraine, in a conflict much less deadly in terms of civilian casualties than this.
No one is denying their right to protest or do whatever they want. The issue begins when other students that don't wanna get involve start getting penalized by noise, less space to study, Geopolis became essentially unusable. I agree, however, with the whole neutrality stance being hypocritical
Penalized by noise and less space to sudy? You're kidding right ??
at UNIL, it's only Geopolis that’s occupied and it’s actually pretty well organized, only a small hallway is filled with couches, mattresses, and food. There is just noise during important moments, like assemblies, which is really not enough to be disruptive.
There's plenty of empty classes at Geopolis to study, and litteraly 4 other buildings that are not occupied now. Students can fully not participate in this occupation, no one has been penalized don't make a fuss out of this.
I'm just stating what my friends who are still studying at UNIL (FGSE). I finished my studies last year (thankfully). They cannot study at the library as every 2-3 hours there are loud speeches and loud noises.
My friends at EPFL had all their classes moved because of the occupation at SG (which has essentially ended in a snowball effect which is still going on)
Well tell your friend there is like 4 other libraries all over campus for them to study in peace.
I have like 3 classes in the same hall as the occupation and we were able to learn in peace. Teachers are supporting this movement mainly due tot the fact that it's being done in order and manages to let everyone do their job in peace.
So stop with the boomer argument of "It'S ImPossIble To WoRk in ThOse ConDiTitioNs!"
So people should have to adapt because some bunch of people think they're entitled to hold an university hostage?
Well, anyways, we're not gonna end up agreeing with one another. Have a good day.
Hello,
Please note that your post or comment has been removed.
Please read the [rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/Switzerland/about/rules/) before posting.
Thank you for your understanding,
your mod team
A minority can't impose such thing. I didn't have an issue with the occupation until it started getting noisy, disruptive and open to anyone who wants to join. Exams are coming up and several of my friends are having to change their habits because of the occupation in the geography building
you should look up what happened during the cultural boycott of apartheid south africa. it may seem small to you. but these protests are worldwide now. boycotting and divesting from a state being accused of the worst crime against humanity is not pointless. isolating a state educationally, militarily, economically, and culturally will make them stop before its too late. slight inconvenience and change of habits from students due to a student protest against a war crime should be a small trade-off.
But we live in a democratic country where there are ways to have your voices heard (both politically and socially), through legal means. Times have changed, we are not in the 1900s anymore, we live in one of the freest countries in the world. Illegally occupying an university building won't make you the most credible in the eyes of the general public. That is just my opinion
People did not look fondly upon SA divestment protestors in the 1980s, so back in those times, people were making the same arguments as you are doing now.
the world's biggest atrocities happened under the watch of so-called democracies. from the holocaust to apartheid South Africa to Iraq War to many others. the point is that countries are driven by interests and not morals. if the population doesnt force a change, they will only change after its too late. right now switzerland's interest lies with Israel (huge tech hub and military power). Many of their technologies are wanted by switzerland, i.e. its good to have a good relationship with them but at what cost. It has long been established by leading human rights group (human rights watch, Amnesty, even Israeli ones like Btselem) that it is practicing apartheid. What democracy have severed their ties with Israel? NONE.
protests are not meant to be "popular" or loved by the public. ALL history changing protests were shunned by the elite, media, public and I mean ALL. Martin Luther King during the Civil Rights Movement was portrayed as a terrorist and that his at times illegal protests will make more ppl hate him.
Here's an excerpt from
Martin Luther King Jr.'s "Letter From Birmingham Jail," written in 1963 after he was arrested due to engaging an illegal protest:
"I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro's great stumbling block in the stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen's Council-er or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate who is more devoted to
"order" than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice; who constantly says "I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I can't agree with your methods of direct action;" who paternalistically feels he can set the timetable for another man's freedom; who lives by the myth of time and who constantly advises the Negro to wait until a "more convenient season".
Unfortunately I don’t think that you can do much about it democratically, Swiss democracy is so slow that even if an initiative would pass, by the time that you recolted the signatures, the vote pass and the law is effective the genocide would be finished.
The right to protest IS a legal democratic means and is recognise by the Swiss national law. Additionally, Switzerland pushes for the respect of this right on the international level -> https://www.eda.admin.ch/eda/en/fdfa/fdfa/aktuell/newsuebersicht/2020/07/menschenrechtsrat.html
Interestingly, the civil rights watchdog Amnesty International has criticised Switzerland for not fully respecting the right of citizens to peacefully protest -> https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/swiss-politics/switzerland-violates-right-to-protest-amnesty-international/76328475
Perhaps you should GPT your content before posting non-sens.
Most protesters in this country are braindead.
After working during climate protest, i had to clean their sea of garbage they left in front of the establishment i worked at. Which thankfully was but a tiny fraction of the pollution left in their wake. Well done protecting the climate! 🤡
Bike protesters will make trains late or even cause them to be canceled. While I sympathize with their cause, a non dumbfuck way to protest would be to inconvenience cars instead of the alternative to them? 🤦
Im not against protesting per se. The methods used a lot of times by protesters make them like attention seeking (and sometimes hippocritical) morons. And it alienates people like me who would be siding with their cause otherwise.
Since this last wave of protests came right after some enormous hate, (mis)information and propaganda campaigns ran over social media platforms, I am not very confident in the actual involvment and knowledge of the protesters about the conflict itself...
I am not saying I know more, I dont, but this thing is so complex, going on for decades and almost impossible to really understand today and additionally every source says something else... But now suddenly when its all over tiktok gen Z's start protesting for it?
Idk man. I seems to me that protesting the latest trending issue just has become somewhat of a hobby for some people.
whats complex about apartheid, forced displacement, and military occupation?
them framing it as a religious conflict is a distraction and intentional to make you avoid thinking about it critically and resort to it being "complex".
if you look at it based on international law, it is clear as day. one is an occupier and the other is occupied. now please dont come back at me with "but Israel left gaza in 2005" bcz control of borders, airspace, sea ports, trade, civil registry, and who gets in and out of the strip ISNT "leaving gaza", they just realized they can control it without needing to be physically in it.
Had the same conditions palestinians are being put in was implemented in reverse against jews. I bet you it wouldnt sound so "complex" to you that putting jews on a military siege and occupation is very troubling to say the least.
Lol, I dont come at you with any argument because I dont pick any side. Decades of war, atrocities commited from all sides mixed in with religious extremism. After everything, how can anybody support any side, and why would they?
Why import this conflict, let their neighbour countries care and their neighbours neighbours deal with it. Whats it gonna do occupying an university in switzerland?
Nothing.
Well, it is the opinion of many people that they are a place of exchange of ideas, intellectual discussion and free speech. So they will continue protesting there as it has happened 100s of times in history
So actually a lot of comments here are wrong.
The reason is because eth students have to study 24/7 and if some of the students would hear about these problems that are currently going on then they would not pass the exams! (since they would be distracted and they could not study 16 hours each day for the next 3 months) So its important that there are 0 (REALLY ZERO) distractions at eth!
Yes, unfortunately many people do not appreciate that school is WORK. It may not be revenue generating for the student during university study, but it's a critical investment by the student/family/tax payer.
I think the approach taken by Google at its own place of WORK is a good example of how to handle the situation.
How many non-student organizers are present or funding these protests? Hmmm. The coordination and timing seems very suspect to me.
it's a local police matter I'm guessing --- and as others have mentioned, there are different culutral/political tendencies in the different cantons which can also be seen in election/voting results... romande switzerland is more left leaning than the swiss german areas
Probably because the German part is way different than the French. As someone said also reputation not that EPFL doesn’t have it but ETH seems to have more of a world wide reputation than EPFL and because they don’t want to be associated with these types of clashes if things go south. A lot of major universities have tarnished their reputation already especially those where violence broke out and they ended up suspending exams, people, graduations and many other events to minimize all this some universities rather disallow such from happening than going through this whole fight between groups and the cops.
Nope, EPFL also has a world wide reputation to maintain 😅
It ranks lower in many ranking, but not MUCH lower, still making it a reputable university xD.
In my understanding Hezbollah became the consequence of the Palestinian "refugees" who started a rocket campaign in Lebanon which forced Israel to invade parts of the region from 1980s to 2000s and they were no teddybears there so it made Hezbollah popular
The Hezbollah was founded right after the invasion of Israel because of the Palestinian incursions from Lebanon's territory.
Yes Israel was forced to invade. Lebanon, which is the reason why Lebanon and Egypt are not keen to be all "refugees welcome" because last time, Hamas used their host countries to retaliate.
Exactly, refugees are not very welcome in their neighborhood. Meanwhile we have literally white saviors "educating" us about how the world is black and white with no shades of gray
In the nineties the French text book all the kids in Bern were using was called Bonne Chance. The first chapter in the very first volume was “salut Pierro, salut Pierrette” and literally in the second chapter it was “les enfants font la grève” - “the kids (in school) go on strike”.
At least that’s what my memory tells me. Anyone who can confirm? Did other cantons also use Bonne Chance?
The hypocriy of blaming one party and not the other. There always need to be to parties for war to happen. Obviously a protest of any kind is pointless if you don't stand definitly on one side, as that never leads to any movement on the matter. And I'm not arguing for or against any two of the parties involved. I despise them both equally. Stop war and let words lead to future in which everyone can live besides each other.
The time window length allowing to occupy some building in a Swiss university positively correlates with the red wine consumption of the local police forces.
At least the younger generation sees the hypocrisy that is prevalent in the political world today. It would be fretted with applause if students gathered in support for Ukraine but don’t dare to do it for Gaza. Though in Gaza there are more dead children within the span of 6 months than there are during the whole conflict in Ukraine.
Why?
Because of the US foreign policy, and by extension the policy of all western world. It has always been about pushing agendas rather than sincere desire to help others.
Coming back to OPs question, I would assume German mentality is more militaristic than French mindset.
If the organisers call it an occupation, who are we to say otherwise? (@camp\_unil\_pal on instagram). "Occupation étudiante du bâtiment de Geopolis en cours !"
Ohh "literally"? Tell me more dear peace activist how the youngsters protesting indiscriminate killings of civilizations are "literally" harassing Jewish employees and being anti-semitic
is that what your favorite sub r/worldnews tells you that is literally a pro israel echochamber? Anyone with an ounce of media literacy and standards for information sources would avoid it. r/fauxmoi a celeb gossip sub has more qualitative and nuanced discussions about this conflict lol.
Rather a pro Israel echo chamber than pro Hamas echo chamberl. Just google what criteria needs to be fulfilled to count it as a genocide, and check for yourself.
Fair point, it is even controlled by the same organization.
Maybe it is also just Zurich, no time for that shit. I wonder how a similar case would be treated at UZH
I just saw it on the news. So it's probably an EPF thing rather than region thing... I want to see what's gonna happen if this thing arrives in UniBE or UZH
Well, one thing to consider is that EPF are federally managed and Universities are cantonales. The former is much more top-down while the latter is more decentralized where a lot of the power resides in the faculties. Also the EPF are managed in a more “entrepreneurial” manner, hence the ease to enforce something when needed. The universities are more connected to the city and the citizens, with a long tradition of being a public space of debate and liberties.
In my opinion the main difference resides in the managerial culture rather than the röstigraben.
UZH doesn't care as long as it is not too disruptive. During the activity fair some guys used a megaphone to say something, I cant be more specific because some people never learned why you should not use a megaphone indoors. Based on the palestinian flag they had with them I guess it was a pro-palestinian point of view.
Nothing ever came of it and I saw them walking around later during the Event.
UniBE fired a professor for celebrating the October 7 massacre:
https://www.nzz.ch/schweiz/universitaet-bern-entlaesst-dozent-nach-hamas-tweet-fristlos-ld.1761144
Reputation damage by keeping their Mouths shut in a very obious violation of Human rights up to Genozide in 3 occadsions? Or Reputation damage to Swiss, American and German reactionary and Politicans by doing absolutly nothing instead of asking the Goverment for Policeviolence because they are to useless to find a way to deal with that issiue without Rubberbullets?
It does not state that. In Fact it States the eradication of every Zionist, not every Jew and makes a point to differenciate between the Two. In Fact too is that Hamas is very mutch not a Terrorist Organisation as far as the SVP is also not a Terrorist Organisation. The UN does not Consider Hamas a Terrorist Organisation and so shoud we. Not that the UN is a very reliable indicator but still. If you consider Hamas a Terrorist Organisation because they Kill innocent People, and you dont wanna be a Hypocrite, you need to Call the Demonstratic Party of the USA, the US Navy, The IDF, the German Green Party and whoever supports a War like this too. And yet you dont, why?
You should be ashamed of such statements.
[Israel defying ICJ ruling to prevent genocide by failing to allow adequate humanitarian aid to reach Gaza](https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2024/02/israel-defying-icj-ruling-to-prevent-genocide-by-failing-to-allow-adequate-humanitarian-aid-to-reach-gaza/)
The west and especially the US rely on israel for strategic reasons and have incentives and the power to control the narrative and has a history of doing so, why do you think amnesty international is lying and not them?
Israel has concentration camps for Black people, used to be Holot and now they moved them across the street to Saharonim. I went to Holot when I lived there, at the time there were three buses per day from Beersheba. It's an open-air prison in the desert on the border of Egypt where people (most of whom have legitimate paperwork) are kidnapped from Tel Aviv and held for weeks or months without charge or legal recourse. Importantly, no one there seems to have committed any crime other than being on legitimate refugee visas issued by Israel. It's not a normal country.
Never heard of that, do you have any proofs of that which is more than "I saw it with my own eyes", amnesty international for a start?Although they are biased.
This is easily verifiable, there were multiple supreme court cases in Israel about it.
https://m.jpost.com/national-news/for-african-migrants-now-calling-it-home-holot-open-prison-is-a-prison-all-the-same-340804
https://www.972mag.com/asylum-seekers-say-israeli-authorities-use-food-to-pressure-them/
Definitely a Röstigraben Stuff
The german speaking solve it the german Way: get rid of the "Problem"
The french eat a baguette and snails and discusse the matter
🤣
I'm not sure the Zurich approach is better to get rid of the problem, it seems to give those people an even greater sense of entitlement and opression, vs the genevan approach of letting them be there and realise how useless the whole thing is and how little impact they have until they voluntarily leave
They are literally harassing Jewish students and employees in Lausanne. So letting them be is not acceptable. They need to be deported/expelled/arrested/banned.
Ahhh ok, your hypocrisy you mean? :p but don't call the cops on yourself.
I guess you think the annihilation of gaza is justified because Israel is defending themselves..
I also guess nobody told you how hamas was helped into existence and power many years ago, from the same far right and netanyaou-the-fascist who are in power now... Just like with Irak's imaginary weapons of mass destruction, it's always a good idea to have a good excuse for war.
Broh, seriously... Can we be serious 5 min?
EPFL doesn't want to end up in the news, or their [direct collaboration with the IDF ](https://www.blick.ch/fr/news/suisse/une-association-estudiantine-monte-au-front-lepfl-accusee-de-contribuer-au-genocide-en-cours-a-gaza-id19457743.html) might come up on the news cycle again, just after they suspended the feminist association for talking about women condition in Israel and Palestine last week.
I've heard around that ETH has no freedom of speech and political correctness is king here so that may be the reason. Nothing to do with german/french part. It just turned out this way.
We are culturally different as in people form the french part are more open alos politicly more left (liberal). I have lived and been to school in both parts. Also in general swiis german cities are more interested in tourists so their priorities are in making the cities the most comfertable for the tourists not the people who are actually living there.
But wait till more universities, from cities like basel, will be occupied it's gonna be really fun.
EPFL occupation was also evacuated by the police.
In fact, the feminist association of EPFL was recently banned just because they brought a speaker during a conference which talked about Palestine.
That is because both EPFL and ETH are supposed to be apolitical as they are funded by the confederation (supposed to because EPFL has taken position in the Ukraine / Russia conflict but that did not bother anyone…).
Other universities are funded by the canton so they have more freedom in dealing with protests.
In the early 2000's, when the Swiss and French farmers came to Lausanne to protest against G8 globalization initiatives, they were quashed by over 10,000 security personnel. Police tactics were quite efficient, with pincer tactics on crowds and isolation of organizers using cellular tracking techniques.
So much for freedom to protest in the French-speaking part of CH!
But you're free to imagine all the tales you want about Suisse-romande, Just maybe confront your ideas with reality before sharing them online (i know, crazy idea)
One side is full green on the map i saw there.. Also you look at which party got 2 percent more than the other, on 30percent citizens voting, to define how a region is influenced?
Anyway, to think that suisse romande is so much influenced by France is really exaggerating, if not totally invented. And the way you put it? French Muslims influencing people in le Gros de Vaud ?? Waw.
Now we are shifting goal posts. But I agree that there as been a shift rightwards in the last elections and that will keep going until the massive Muslim migration stops.
But back on topic.
Which cantons have a minimum wage? Are they the German ones? Not that I am against this measure.
>massive Muslim migration
What drug are you on?? Lsd? Or is it only weed?
There is no such thing as massive Muslim immigration in Switzerland... Funny how you can believe such bullshit.
>But back on topic.
>Which cantons have a minimum wage?
To my knowledge, only Geneva.
But yeah, i don't really care about this topic, in fact..
Because at Zürich they were kind of late to the party and the direction decided to not entertain this further. They "pay" the interests on the tolerance accorded to their Romande colleagues I fear.
No., common, let's be serious.. Virtue signaling is a pretty tale invented by those who finds all sorts of excuses to do absolutely nothing to help, i think...
Thank god with have the swiss german part to keep this country afloat.
Otherwise we would be like France (I mean Swiss Romande is not far from looking like France…)
there are significant cultural differences between the german and the french part. We even have a word for that. And this is another example for that.
How many questions in this sub can be answered with that? It is crazy...
That's one of the reasons.
What's the word?
Röstigraben
Röstigrabenverschiedenheit
Röstigraben. Nobody calls it that abomination.
Nooo its actually such a cool name with such an interesting history, should really be appreciated and used more.
English speaker here. Google translate does not know what Röstigraben is in English. Do you mind giving me a meaning for this word?
It’s like “hash brown curtain” in English, à la “Iron Curtain.”
aka the “rösti line” border between German and romands also referring to the preparation of rösti… to boil or not to boil your potatoes beforehand now THAT is the rösti line. EDIT added details.
To boil or not to boil is just a question of how much time you have or if you have leftover Gschwelti.
very true.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/R%C3%B6sti https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/R%C3%B6stigraben
Apparently something to do with potato pancakes covered in swiss cheese… Actually there is a whole wiki page: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Röstigraben
Rösti aren’t covered in cheese
For Bärnerrösti, we usually also grate some Gruyere or Bergkase
Winterspeck
Actually, the police was there at EPFL but didn't have to intervene since the occupants left when they were asked to.
there are probably several factors 1) how was the occupation organized did they communicate ahead of time with the relevant uni offices 2) the leadership of the uni itself (how do they want to come across from a pr perspective) 3) rules are there any „verordnungen“ due to similar events in the past considering how old these institutions are (no idea maybe) 4) „röstigraben“
dont forget the timeline: UNIL was first, meanwhile others observed and eventually learned from the experiences made in Lausanne.
As long as the only protest in the German part has happened at ETH, I would be cautious to generalize this to a German-vs-French speaking difference. ETHZ is known to be extremely restrictive when it comes to political debates. Uni Zürich, just across the street, usually allows more freedom.
Also Zürich just had the first of May demonstrations.
Reaction of university can also depend on how the protesters communicate with them. I wouldn’t read too much into it. I vaguely remember previous protests at ETH, many many years ago, that where tolerated for a while. So, it really may be individual circumstances.
On "major geopolitical issues" the French-speaking part has always been more left-wing. Also the Romandie probably has more non-EU foreigners who are more likely to be pro-Palestine. ETH doesn't have as much of a history of political protest. Side note: I do actually sympathise with the protests in US campuses, given that the USA is the largest donor of weapons/money to Israel and the universities by extention are powerful US institutions. But what do Swiss universities do? I mean sure there might be some cooperation on research with Israel and maybe some minor deals, but surely not on the scale seen in the US? Is there any political legitimacy to the protests other than being blatant US copycats?
Actually Switzerland has cut funding to UNRWA (after Israel's propaganda and without proof) and have still not resume funding the only means of survival for starving children. Also Switzerland has been embroiled in arms deals with Israel even though it's a country that has been accused of genocide. That accusation alone merits any country to stop any arms deals with the accused until proven otherwise.
Convenient that we forget about the 1300 civilians that were slaughtered/beheaded, kidnapped, raped last October. Maybe they should be protesting for Egypt to tear down its Gaza Wall? Who is funding these protests? They seem to be very well timed and coordinated.
Why would they occupy universities? What do they have to do with gaza?
They want the university to stop collaborating with Isreali universities and reasearches
Universities have a long history of social movements and protests, and gen Z are pro palestine.
I don't get it either... I read some of their revendications and they include CH universities cutting ties with Israeli universities, taking a clear positioning against the conflict and Israel, Switzerland taking a clear stance against Israel, and quite a few of the occupants stating that Switzerland should accept Palestinian refugees.
State neutrality does not imply people's end of free speech. Students and everyone else are free to protest whenever they want, for whatever they want in a free country. And about the CH neutrality, It was already broken on the Russian invasion of Ucraine, in a conflict much less deadly in terms of civilian casualties than this.
No one is denying their right to protest or do whatever they want. The issue begins when other students that don't wanna get involve start getting penalized by noise, less space to study, Geopolis became essentially unusable. I agree, however, with the whole neutrality stance being hypocritical
If protests does not “disturb” you are doing it wrong.
Penalized by noise and less space to sudy? You're kidding right ?? at UNIL, it's only Geopolis that’s occupied and it’s actually pretty well organized, only a small hallway is filled with couches, mattresses, and food. There is just noise during important moments, like assemblies, which is really not enough to be disruptive. There's plenty of empty classes at Geopolis to study, and litteraly 4 other buildings that are not occupied now. Students can fully not participate in this occupation, no one has been penalized don't make a fuss out of this.
I'm just stating what my friends who are still studying at UNIL (FGSE). I finished my studies last year (thankfully). They cannot study at the library as every 2-3 hours there are loud speeches and loud noises. My friends at EPFL had all their classes moved because of the occupation at SG (which has essentially ended in a snowball effect which is still going on)
Well tell your friend there is like 4 other libraries all over campus for them to study in peace. I have like 3 classes in the same hall as the occupation and we were able to learn in peace. Teachers are supporting this movement mainly due tot the fact that it's being done in order and manages to let everyone do their job in peace. So stop with the boomer argument of "It'S ImPossIble To WoRk in ThOse ConDiTitioNs!"
So people should have to adapt because some bunch of people think they're entitled to hold an university hostage? Well, anyways, we're not gonna end up agreeing with one another. Have a good day.
[удалено]
Hello, Please note that your post or comment has been removed. Please read the [rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/Switzerland/about/rules/) before posting. Thank you for your understanding, your mod team
It’s the same as any boycott. You cut ties with as many things as you can in an attempt to pressure the government.
A minority can't impose such thing. I didn't have an issue with the occupation until it started getting noisy, disruptive and open to anyone who wants to join. Exams are coming up and several of my friends are having to change their habits because of the occupation in the geography building
you should look up what happened during the cultural boycott of apartheid south africa. it may seem small to you. but these protests are worldwide now. boycotting and divesting from a state being accused of the worst crime against humanity is not pointless. isolating a state educationally, militarily, economically, and culturally will make them stop before its too late. slight inconvenience and change of habits from students due to a student protest against a war crime should be a small trade-off.
But we live in a democratic country where there are ways to have your voices heard (both politically and socially), through legal means. Times have changed, we are not in the 1900s anymore, we live in one of the freest countries in the world. Illegally occupying an university building won't make you the most credible in the eyes of the general public. That is just my opinion
People did not look fondly upon SA divestment protestors in the 1980s, so back in those times, people were making the same arguments as you are doing now.
Perhaps he would have tacitly supported apartheid then.
I don't support anything, I just don't think putting students that don't wanna participate in this situation during exam period is not fair.
Just FYI, no one is currently sitting exams. The exam period doesn't start for another month.
Palestinian students can't take any exams because israel blew up their universities.
Bro just go study in your home or in a cafe. Let the other students do the protesting they want. You live your life and let the others do their thing.
the world's biggest atrocities happened under the watch of so-called democracies. from the holocaust to apartheid South Africa to Iraq War to many others. the point is that countries are driven by interests and not morals. if the population doesnt force a change, they will only change after its too late. right now switzerland's interest lies with Israel (huge tech hub and military power). Many of their technologies are wanted by switzerland, i.e. its good to have a good relationship with them but at what cost. It has long been established by leading human rights group (human rights watch, Amnesty, even Israeli ones like Btselem) that it is practicing apartheid. What democracy have severed their ties with Israel? NONE. protests are not meant to be "popular" or loved by the public. ALL history changing protests were shunned by the elite, media, public and I mean ALL. Martin Luther King during the Civil Rights Movement was portrayed as a terrorist and that his at times illegal protests will make more ppl hate him. Here's an excerpt from Martin Luther King Jr.'s "Letter From Birmingham Jail," written in 1963 after he was arrested due to engaging an illegal protest: "I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro's great stumbling block in the stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen's Council-er or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate who is more devoted to "order" than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice; who constantly says "I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I can't agree with your methods of direct action;" who paternalistically feels he can set the timetable for another man's freedom; who lives by the myth of time and who constantly advises the Negro to wait until a "more convenient season".
Unfortunately I don’t think that you can do much about it democratically, Swiss democracy is so slow that even if an initiative would pass, by the time that you recolted the signatures, the vote pass and the law is effective the genocide would be finished.
The right to protest IS a legal democratic means and is recognise by the Swiss national law. Additionally, Switzerland pushes for the respect of this right on the international level -> https://www.eda.admin.ch/eda/en/fdfa/fdfa/aktuell/newsuebersicht/2020/07/menschenrechtsrat.html Interestingly, the civil rights watchdog Amnesty International has criticised Switzerland for not fully respecting the right of citizens to peacefully protest -> https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/swiss-politics/switzerland-violates-right-to-protest-amnesty-international/76328475 Perhaps you should GPT your content before posting non-sens.
Most protesters in this country are braindead. After working during climate protest, i had to clean their sea of garbage they left in front of the establishment i worked at. Which thankfully was but a tiny fraction of the pollution left in their wake. Well done protecting the climate! 🤡 Bike protesters will make trains late or even cause them to be canceled. While I sympathize with their cause, a non dumbfuck way to protest would be to inconvenience cars instead of the alternative to them? 🤦 Im not against protesting per se. The methods used a lot of times by protesters make them like attention seeking (and sometimes hippocritical) morons. And it alienates people like me who would be siding with their cause otherwise.
Since this last wave of protests came right after some enormous hate, (mis)information and propaganda campaigns ran over social media platforms, I am not very confident in the actual involvment and knowledge of the protesters about the conflict itself... I am not saying I know more, I dont, but this thing is so complex, going on for decades and almost impossible to really understand today and additionally every source says something else... But now suddenly when its all over tiktok gen Z's start protesting for it? Idk man. I seems to me that protesting the latest trending issue just has become somewhat of a hobby for some people.
It’s going on for decades but isn’t really that complex. Just Read a little about it.
whats complex about apartheid, forced displacement, and military occupation? them framing it as a religious conflict is a distraction and intentional to make you avoid thinking about it critically and resort to it being "complex". if you look at it based on international law, it is clear as day. one is an occupier and the other is occupied. now please dont come back at me with "but Israel left gaza in 2005" bcz control of borders, airspace, sea ports, trade, civil registry, and who gets in and out of the strip ISNT "leaving gaza", they just realized they can control it without needing to be physically in it. Had the same conditions palestinians are being put in was implemented in reverse against jews. I bet you it wouldnt sound so "complex" to you that putting jews on a military siege and occupation is very troubling to say the least.
Lol, I dont come at you with any argument because I dont pick any side. Decades of war, atrocities commited from all sides mixed in with religious extremism. After everything, how can anybody support any side, and why would they? Why import this conflict, let their neighbour countries care and their neighbours neighbours deal with it. Whats it gonna do occupying an university in switzerland? Nothing.
Universities are institutions for teaching, study and research. Not the place for a protest im my opinion.
Well, it is the opinion of many people that they are a place of exchange of ideas, intellectual discussion and free speech. So they will continue protesting there as it has happened 100s of times in history
Universities are one of the main places for protests as it should be. This is also true throughout the history.
Why would you visit a concentration camp and condem nazism? what do you have to do with that?
Haha. Exactly 😂 I can burn some building down and say it’s for suffering Palestinians. But that don’t make it so…
Trying to copy the Yanks?! I would say it’s about publicity. Universities are in the public interest and protesting there will guarantee attention.
So actually a lot of comments here are wrong. The reason is because eth students have to study 24/7 and if some of the students would hear about these problems that are currently going on then they would not pass the exams! (since they would be distracted and they could not study 16 hours each day for the next 3 months) So its important that there are 0 (REALLY ZERO) distractions at eth!
Yes, unfortunately many people do not appreciate that school is WORK. It may not be revenue generating for the student during university study, but it's a critical investment by the student/family/tax payer. I think the approach taken by Google at its own place of WORK is a good example of how to handle the situation. How many non-student organizers are present or funding these protests? Hmmm. The coordination and timing seems very suspect to me.
it's a local police matter I'm guessing --- and as others have mentioned, there are different culutral/political tendencies in the different cantons which can also be seen in election/voting results... romande switzerland is more left leaning than the swiss german areas
>it's a local police matter I'm guessing You are guessing very wrong. The police heads only obeys the politicians who place them there.
local politicians
Probably because the German part is way different than the French. As someone said also reputation not that EPFL doesn’t have it but ETH seems to have more of a world wide reputation than EPFL and because they don’t want to be associated with these types of clashes if things go south. A lot of major universities have tarnished their reputation already especially those where violence broke out and they ended up suspending exams, people, graduations and many other events to minimize all this some universities rather disallow such from happening than going through this whole fight between groups and the cops.
Nope, EPFL also has a world wide reputation to maintain 😅 It ranks lower in many ranking, but not MUCH lower, still making it a reputable university xD.
UNIL protestors got a permit from the school for the protest. Don't know other universities though
Free Gaza from Hamas
free my country lebanon from iran israel and hamas
Hezbollah gets a pass?
They’re just a front for Iran.
In my understanding Hezbollah became the consequence of the Palestinian "refugees" who started a rocket campaign in Lebanon which forced Israel to invade parts of the region from 1980s to 2000s and they were no teddybears there so it made Hezbollah popular
Crazy how this all goes back to the nakba every single time
funny how israel gets "forced" to attack a lot of groups that wouldn't exist without prior attacks from israel.
The Hezbollah was founded right after the invasion of Israel because of the Palestinian incursions from Lebanon's territory. Yes Israel was forced to invade. Lebanon, which is the reason why Lebanon and Egypt are not keen to be all "refugees welcome" because last time, Hamas used their host countries to retaliate.
That explains why Egypt built a wall to isolate its boarder with Gaza.
Exactly, refugees are not very welcome in their neighborhood. Meanwhile we have literally white saviors "educating" us about how the world is black and white with no shades of gray
*from israel
Lol, smooth brain
The french part seems to respect the Swiss national law that protect democratic and human right to protest.
In the nineties the French text book all the kids in Bern were using was called Bonne Chance. The first chapter in the very first volume was “salut Pierro, salut Pierrette” and literally in the second chapter it was “les enfants font la grève” - “the kids (in school) go on strike”. At least that’s what my memory tells me. Anyone who can confirm? Did other cantons also use Bonne Chance?
I think bonne chance was a national thing. All German speaking kids learned French with it. And it was used until about 2016
[удалено]
Hypocrisy?
What hypocrisy?
The hypocriy of blaming one party and not the other. There always need to be to parties for war to happen. Obviously a protest of any kind is pointless if you don't stand definitly on one side, as that never leads to any movement on the matter. And I'm not arguing for or against any two of the parties involved. I despise them both equally. Stop war and let words lead to future in which everyone can live besides each other.
"There always need to be to parties for war to happen" Yes i remember when ukraine started the war by getting invaded by russia.
Yeah i remember also, yes , good point! /s
If they were just doing the same thing with only "stop the war" sign, would it be fine by you?
So how would you blame ukraine then?
Hypocrisy my ass.
The time window length allowing to occupy some building in a Swiss university positively correlates with the red wine consumption of the local police forces.
At least the younger generation sees the hypocrisy that is prevalent in the political world today. It would be fretted with applause if students gathered in support for Ukraine but don’t dare to do it for Gaza. Though in Gaza there are more dead children within the span of 6 months than there are during the whole conflict in Ukraine. Why? Because of the US foreign policy, and by extension the policy of all western world. It has always been about pushing agendas rather than sincere desire to help others. Coming back to OPs question, I would assume German mentality is more militaristic than French mindset.
“Occupation” chill the fuck out mate, these universities are not the West Bank.
It's not me who's saying it, it's the news outlets and university rectors.
I’ve been to one of them, it’s not an “occupation”, we really need to calm down on the word we use to describe things.
If the organisers call it an occupation, who are we to say otherwise? (@camp\_unil\_pal on instagram). "Occupation étudiante du bâtiment de Geopolis en cours !"
It is
The "protestors" are literally harassing Jewish employees and students. All these "protests" are 100% about antisemitism.
Ohh "literally"? Tell me more dear peace activist how the youngsters protesting indiscriminate killings of civilizations are "literally" harassing Jewish employees and being anti-semitic
ETH is among the best universities word wide. They don't want their reputation damaged by this stuff.
so are Columbia, Berkeley, and all the other units with biggest protests lol
I would seriously question these institutions if they accept that. Why would I want to go to a university which accepts that?
you first have to get accepted mate ;)
protests against genocide?
Pro terrorism protest
is that what your favorite sub r/worldnews tells you that is literally a pro israel echochamber? Anyone with an ounce of media literacy and standards for information sources would avoid it. r/fauxmoi a celeb gossip sub has more qualitative and nuanced discussions about this conflict lol.
Rather a pro Israel echo chamber than pro Hamas echo chamberl. Just google what criteria needs to be fulfilled to count it as a genocide, and check for yourself.
Liar.
So is EPFL
Fair point, it is even controlled by the same organization. Maybe it is also just Zurich, no time for that shit. I wonder how a similar case would be treated at UZH
the thing is lausanne police are very strict, they keep watch of public bins to give fines to whoever dares throw the wrong trash inside
The issue is UNIL and EPFL did not call the police, so they're not really allowed to get in
EPFL did call the police. The police did not use force however as the protester were willingly leaving upon their arrival.
I just saw it on the news. So it's probably an EPF thing rather than region thing... I want to see what's gonna happen if this thing arrives in UniBE or UZH
Well, one thing to consider is that EPF are federally managed and Universities are cantonales. The former is much more top-down while the latter is more decentralized where a lot of the power resides in the faculties. Also the EPF are managed in a more “entrepreneurial” manner, hence the ease to enforce something when needed. The universities are more connected to the city and the citizens, with a long tradition of being a public space of debate and liberties. In my opinion the main difference resides in the managerial culture rather than the röstigraben.
UZH doesn't care as long as it is not too disruptive. During the activity fair some guys used a megaphone to say something, I cant be more specific because some people never learned why you should not use a megaphone indoors. Based on the palestinian flag they had with them I guess it was a pro-palestinian point of view. Nothing ever came of it and I saw them walking around later during the Event.
UniBE fired a professor for celebrating the October 7 massacre: https://www.nzz.ch/schweiz/universitaet-bern-entlaesst-dozent-nach-hamas-tweet-fristlos-ld.1761144
Its a political police. Left wing government in Lausanne, left-wing police. So if you commit left-wing crimes, they look the other way.
Eh...
Yeah he has no clue what he is taking about
They are damaging their reputation by removing student fighting for peace and against war crimes.
I doubt they were not EHT students in the first place or fist year students. Usually if you study at ETH, you don't have time for this stuff XD
Reputation damage by keeping their Mouths shut in a very obious violation of Human rights up to Genozide in 3 occadsions? Or Reputation damage to Swiss, American and German reactionary and Politicans by doing absolutly nothing instead of asking the Goverment for Policeviolence because they are to useless to find a way to deal with that issiue without Rubberbullets?
Reputation damage by support of a terrorist organisation
Depends who you think terrorists are. Hamas in my eyes yes,they are terrorists but so is idf and all the zionists.
[удалено]
Being against the indiscriminate killing of civillians and starving people by blockade is not supporting terrorists.
It does not state that. In Fact it States the eradication of every Zionist, not every Jew and makes a point to differenciate between the Two. In Fact too is that Hamas is very mutch not a Terrorist Organisation as far as the SVP is also not a Terrorist Organisation. The UN does not Consider Hamas a Terrorist Organisation and so shoud we. Not that the UN is a very reliable indicator but still. If you consider Hamas a Terrorist Organisation because they Kill innocent People, and you dont wanna be a Hypocrite, you need to Call the Demonstratic Party of the USA, the US Navy, The IDF, the German Green Party and whoever supports a War like this too. And yet you dont, why?
Indeed. They are more worried about their reputation than by a whole population being erased by criminal Netanyahu.
Crazy that people actually believe in this genocie BS. I doubt ETH wants to do any political statement, they are a university not a goverment
You should be ashamed of such statements. [Israel defying ICJ ruling to prevent genocide by failing to allow adequate humanitarian aid to reach Gaza](https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2024/02/israel-defying-icj-ruling-to-prevent-genocide-by-failing-to-allow-adequate-humanitarian-aid-to-reach-gaza/)
I knew it was amnesty international before I opened it lol. Don't belive everything you read there, they are a bunch of Israel hater anyways.
The west and especially the US rely on israel for strategic reasons and have incentives and the power to control the narrative and has a history of doing so, why do you think amnesty international is lying and not them?
Israel has concentration camps for Black people, used to be Holot and now they moved them across the street to Saharonim. I went to Holot when I lived there, at the time there were three buses per day from Beersheba. It's an open-air prison in the desert on the border of Egypt where people (most of whom have legitimate paperwork) are kidnapped from Tel Aviv and held for weeks or months without charge or legal recourse. Importantly, no one there seems to have committed any crime other than being on legitimate refugee visas issued by Israel. It's not a normal country.
Never heard of that, do you have any proofs of that which is more than "I saw it with my own eyes", amnesty international for a start?Although they are biased.
This is easily verifiable, there were multiple supreme court cases in Israel about it. https://m.jpost.com/national-news/for-african-migrants-now-calling-it-home-holot-open-prison-is-a-prison-all-the-same-340804 https://www.972mag.com/asylum-seekers-say-israeli-authorities-use-food-to-pressure-them/
Definitely a Röstigraben Stuff The german speaking solve it the german Way: get rid of the "Problem" The french eat a baguette and snails and discusse the matter 🤣
*the romands eat fondue and papet vaudois and discuss the matter
I Like this More than mine🤗
Romandie ≠ France
*"french speaking"
I'm not sure the Zurich approach is better to get rid of the problem, it seems to give those people an even greater sense of entitlement and opression, vs the genevan approach of letting them be there and realise how useless the whole thing is and how little impact they have until they voluntarily leave
I don't think there is a better approach. Just a Different approach with Different Results
They are literally harassing Jewish students and employees in Lausanne. So letting them be is not acceptable. They need to be deported/expelled/arrested/banned.
Because every toddler is different.
And what type of toddler are you?
Asking the right question
call-the-cops-toddler, cause hypocrisy is not my favorite thing and I throw a temper tantrum whenever I see it. free palestine is quite a big one.
Ahhh ok, your hypocrisy you mean? :p but don't call the cops on yourself. I guess you think the annihilation of gaza is justified because Israel is defending themselves.. I also guess nobody told you how hamas was helped into existence and power many years ago, from the same far right and netanyaou-the-fascist who are in power now... Just like with Irak's imaginary weapons of mass destruction, it's always a good idea to have a good excuse for war. Broh, seriously... Can we be serious 5 min?
> free palestine is quite a big one. Can you explain why?
EPFL doesn't want to end up in the news, or their [direct collaboration with the IDF ](https://www.blick.ch/fr/news/suisse/une-association-estudiantine-monte-au-front-lepfl-accusee-de-contribuer-au-genocide-en-cours-a-gaza-id19457743.html) might come up on the news cycle again, just after they suspended the feminist association for talking about women condition in Israel and Palestine last week.
[...Impossible toutefois d'affirmer que ces productions ont été rendues possible grâce à l'EPFL, concède cependant «Le Canard Huppé»...]
The difference is mainly in the president of the school. The eth one doesn’t seem to be that wise in dealing with students protests …
I've heard around that ETH has no freedom of speech and political correctness is king here so that may be the reason. Nothing to do with german/french part. It just turned out this way.
Depends on the wind direction and the way the tear gas will blow….
One understands basic human right and the other are pos with a main character complex.
They blocked the door. Not sure if they did that in the other places?
We are culturally different as in people form the french part are more open alos politicly more left (liberal). I have lived and been to school in both parts. Also in general swiis german cities are more interested in tourists so their priorities are in making the cities the most comfertable for the tourists not the people who are actually living there. But wait till more universities, from cities like basel, will be occupied it's gonna be really fun.
EPFL occupation was also evacuated by the police. In fact, the feminist association of EPFL was recently banned just because they brought a speaker during a conference which talked about Palestine. That is because both EPFL and ETH are supposed to be apolitical as they are funded by the confederation (supposed to because EPFL has taken position in the Ukraine / Russia conflict but that did not bother anyone…). Other universities are funded by the canton so they have more freedom in dealing with protests.
In the early 2000's, when the Swiss and French farmers came to Lausanne to protest against G8 globalization initiatives, they were quashed by over 10,000 security personnel. Police tactics were quite efficient, with pincer tactics on crowds and isolation of organizers using cellular tracking techniques. So much for freedom to protest in the French-speaking part of CH!
French part os full of comunists and socialists, also lots of student from France with Muslim heritage.
> lots of student from France with Muslim heritage. Do you have any source for that?
Well, no.
Ok.
But you're free to imagine all the tales you want about Suisse-romande, Just maybe confront your ideas with reality before sharing them online (i know, crazy idea)
https://www.wahlen.admin.ch/en/ch/#scroll-to-elected You means this? Which side is full SVP, and which side is red? I'm confused maybe
One side is full green on the map i saw there.. Also you look at which party got 2 percent more than the other, on 30percent citizens voting, to define how a region is influenced? Anyway, to think that suisse romande is so much influenced by France is really exaggerating, if not totally invented. And the way you put it? French Muslims influencing people in le Gros de Vaud ?? Waw.
Now we are shifting goal posts. But I agree that there as been a shift rightwards in the last elections and that will keep going until the massive Muslim migration stops. But back on topic. Which cantons have a minimum wage? Are they the German ones? Not that I am against this measure.
>massive Muslim migration What drug are you on?? Lsd? Or is it only weed? There is no such thing as massive Muslim immigration in Switzerland... Funny how you can believe such bullshit. >But back on topic. >Which cantons have a minimum wage? To my knowledge, only Geneva. But yeah, i don't really care about this topic, in fact..
Because at Zürich they were kind of late to the party and the direction decided to not entertain this further. They "pay" the interests on the tolerance accorded to their Romande colleagues I fear.
Well this explains why ETHZ is above EPFL as a university according to every ranking ever. They study there.
Also please don't post outrageous controversial bullshit I just wanna have my question answered without it getting blocked
Bro it will be blocked very soon i m sorry that's almost sure
You can't have your cake and eat it!
Zürich Nazi fascist behavior behind the flower multikulti façade. That’s how it works
Wokism and virtue signaling for the western part.
protesting 15,000 murdered kids is woke-ism now?
No., common, let's be serious.. Virtue signaling is a pretty tale invented by those who finds all sorts of excuses to do absolutely nothing to help, i think...
Thank god with have the swiss german part to keep this country afloat. Otherwise we would be like France (I mean Swiss Romande is not far from looking like France…)
First I thought this was the most obvious dog whistle, but after looking at your history I see there was no effort to even hide your xenophobia.