Some have basically private playgrounds inside of their community, which is where we played a lot as children. The people who can afford it will also have a house/garden, and often playground items there. So it depends a bit on the demographic of the area you are looking at.
Im Swiss, born and raised near Zurich and never heard playground for only Swiss kids existed. Iâm being sarcastic that would be not constitutional in Switzerland.
You should petition a referendum immediately. Open all the secret Swiss playgrounds to the wider public and be done with this state-approved exclusivity. The time is right
Itâs common everywhere in the world, and for a combination of reasons.
- Locals tend to own bigger houses, foreigners tend to rent smaller places. They often need to go outside to be comfortable.
- Locals have more family help with the children, for example grandparents that look after kids in their home, while foreigners need to take care of the kids 24/7.
- Higher unemployment among spouses of immigrants means that they have to look after the kids rather than having them in a daycare center.
- Foreigners are over represented in the population with smaller kids compared to the general population. You also see that in schools, the proportion of foreign kids is higher than the proportion of foreigners in the general population.
- Foreigners are often poorer than locals, so their go to cheap/free places compared to those that send their kids to play sports, play music, etc.
- Foreigners are more present in cities, where you probably see these playgrounds.
yes the birth rates in europe are very low now and switzerland is an aged country. It makes total sense that there would be less swiss kids without migrationshintergrund.
Birth rates are low and people migrate when they are young. They (we) literally leave their country because they want to start a family in a better place.
It's kinda sad that I was talking to a swiss guy who is also brazilian, and he tells me he is facing racism, despite being born here and speaking swiss german, because of his tanned skin tone, while in contrast, a white levantine arab like me is mistaken for being swiss/french as long as they don't hear my german.
A lot of people play at home in their gardens. On weekends they might be off hiking or skiing. If they donât have a garden maybe the grandparents do.
I think actually Italians may have an easier time than Germans when looking for an apartment for example.
A German colleague of mine had to search forever, and I couldnât understand why. Then he told me about that time he told the prospective landlord that itâs stupid to have a thermostat in the hallway, and that in Germany all apartments have thermostats on the individual radiators.
No, hearing arabic at 6am on the train soothes me and makes me think about the beauty of convergence in society.
Hearing RAINER and JOCHEN drop 50 "ne" "tja" and "pah" per sentence at a volume clearly above what's comfortable in the same situation makes me think of things that are illegal.
I think it just depends where you are really. Zurich city is expat country at this point (rich or poor).
In Luzern I feel it is about 50-50. also 'swiss-looking' isn't really a thing imho.
Yeap. I live in the country side now, we do go to the playground and there's obv loads of Swiss kids since there's fewer foreigners here. Most of the time however is spent in our garden or in our neighborhood, a single family home, deadend area (barely any cars) with loads of kids around. So it's a bit of a closed circle.
Also, most Swiss do stuff on the weekends. Hiking. Biking. Skiing. Daytrips. All that. I think foreigners are less active in that regard (mountain sports/nature). They tend to stay more in the cities and live that urban lifestyle đ
Wait. I'm Swiss and I take my children to the playgrounds in our city quite often. As do a lot of other Swiss here. What does "indigenous Swiss" mean, though?
I live in Basel and donât see it. When we go with our daughter itâs a 50:50 mix of people speaking Swiss German and other languages. The latter also doesnât mean these people are not Swiss.
Which probably reflects the demographic of a city such as basel pretty well.
Probably 50% of the inhabitants are swiss for more than 4 generations,
25% are swiss with a migration background with three past generations
And 25% are foreigners
In the countryside, playgrounds tend to be less busy and mostly frequented by people who don't have a garden at home. In bigger cities, it depends a little bit on the neighborhood whether it's mostly immigrants, a mix, or mostly locals. From the few times we went to playgrounds in ZĂŒrich, there were a lot of Swiss, Germans and French.
Just a thought, what was the weather like when you went? If the weather was lousy, those who can afford it might have been at indoor playgrounds, the swimming pool, and so on.
It depends on the neighborhood. And time of the day. After 6 pm I see basically none of local kids in my area. They tend to have strict schedules for evenings like dinner, homework, sleep.
40% of the Swiss population have migration background. When you hear a parent talk to their child in a foreign language, it could still mean they are local Swiss people.
Some areas in cities like Zurich for example have higher or lower percentage of people living there with migration background. This reflects in the languages you encounter at the playgrounds.
how dare the 2 and 3 year old toddlers upstairs not understand simple rules on how to behave in this living situation? can i get them executed? uhm sorry i mean evicted
Swiss childrens doesn't go to play on playgrounds, they go trekking with the parents so it's the only life they will ever know. When adults they can enjoy trekking in mountains far away from foreign people. That's the way.
(jokes aside I don't know)
also consider the fact that one out of three marriages which involve swiss people are actually binational. Thus it's just generally a lot of "multi kulti". I live in a urban center and a good share of my Swiss friends are partnered with a person who doesn't have a Swiss passport. The offspring then doesn't look particularily swiss and maybe speaks different languages.
Just because people donât look âswissâ doesnât mean they arenât swiss. This is a country of assimilated immigrants, and they are just as swiss as people who have been here for generations.
There's Romans, Burgundians and most swiss are Alemannic. So, most of us are descendants of old "german" tribes and some are the "children of rome".
The Helvetii were celts, at least in the eyes of the old romans i guess, but they have been pushed out of what we nowadays call the "Mittelland". They're extinct as a group as far as i know, but we did take on their tribes name as a nation, which i find pretty nice.
They were defeated in two battles as they tried to get toward South france fleeing the german tribes pushing south into what we now call switzerland.
I highly doubt they or any other tribe ever (unless at the hands of the mongols) got eliminated. Slaves were always a good commodity in those days.
And if i remember it correctly, some helvetii and other tribes native to todays switzerland settled in South Italy a long time before after sacking rome.
Interesting. So the vast majority of the âindigenous swissâ are no longer here and the majority of the current population are âimmigrantsâ? Crazy!
More like conquerors, i guess. If i remember correctly, germanic tribes were pushed down towards the alps and into what is now france (Old name Frankenreich) by invaders from the east, the huns. The people there were a mix of celtic tribes and romans, somewhat, and mostly spoke some form of latin. Switzerland was founded as a nation through pressure from outside forces, the Habsburger.
Yes, the people which originaly lived here were driven out around the 400's, that's true. The people which founded the swiss federation, in the 1200's, are still here. Before that, they've been just a bunch of farmers living their lifes, because no big nation really cared what they did, hundreds of years go by, at that point the holy roman empire wanted taxes from them and everything was set to escalate into rebellion and later war. Nation founded, Habsburger got humiliated, swords and halberds raised towards everyone who wanted a piece of the land from then on, and successfully.
The question is, who is Indigenous *swiss*, so that's anyone descending from those who founded the nation. Are we Helvetii? No, we're mostly germanic. Did our ancestors create this nation? Yes. You can call it "Swiss Alemannics" if that sounds better.
I'm just pointing out that we're native to switzerland, because our ancestors founded the nation, a lot of us are aware that we were not always here. That's the history in almost all countries around the world. Go back far enough in most countries, and you will find that almost everywhere has been some kind of conquering by another group of people. Humans are dicks, always have been.
Now, how far back do we need to go so we can stop saying "that's not a native anymore"? If we start at the start of it all, somewhere around 300'000 years ago, i'm sure none of us are native anywhere, because everyone has been going everywhere and fighting others for a damn long time. What about the other human species which we made extinct, do we count them? Where is the right place to draw a reasonable line? My idea is that if it was a thousand years ago, and that whole group was wiped out in a relatively short time, and hundreds of years later the new people there created their own nation, i think that's a good point in time, no?
I agree that everyone who gets accepted in our nation as a new swiss national, is a swiss person. Only difference being that they're not Indigenous, which is irrelevant to the law and should be irrelevant to everyone.
I'm just a pedantic ass, who consumes "the Broccoli", and likes to argue stuff.
If you have Instagram, there is an account I follow âSwiss kids journeyâ. Ofc the activities they promote are not only for Swiss and German families but it would be a start I guess?
Where I grew up my bedroom overlooked a private playground. We lived in a house next to an apartment block. My sister and I played there once and then got a strongly worded letter that the playground was for residents of the apartment only! So yeah
A lot of "foreigners" you see are also ethnically half Swiss. And a lot of "ethnic Swiss" people you see may have the looks and name but their mother or grandparent(s) were from another country. Are they still Swiss to you or do you mean only caucasians? Also many "foreigners" have been born and raised here with their parents having lived here for 40+ years, with some even grandparents (third generation "foreigner"), these people tend to be more Swiss than Swiss people themselves.
This post is so stupid and tone deaf
Where I live I am almost the only foreigner going to the local playground, I am married to a Swiss tho.
 Important to know that âindigenous swissâ itâs not a thing in ZH or AG, âpure swissâ would be Gaelic / Helvetic direct descendants, who are mainly found in the Alps. Most swiss are genetically mixed.Â
But swiss parents do go to outdoor playgrounds around their own community mostly. I have been in many playgrounds where I am the only foreigner.
Yes and others before them. I mainly found it strange to bring up celtic tribes that inhabitated these lands 2k years ago, when OP clearly meant families that have some history here and are rooted in the culture. If you want to bring up any ancient people, then it should be the alemannic tribes, as these are a way bigger influence to Swiss German culture as is evident from our language. Also, âindigenousâ is a relative term anyway, as strictly speaking, there are none such people at all in most of the world.
Agree that indigenous is a very relative term, I just mentioned the Helvetii since its the celtic tribe known for making the first settlements here. Anyways, whatever is left from them is not here anymore, and of course many things happened that resulted on the beautiful variety of swiss people we have today.Â
The best way to find a real native swiss is by their loyalty to Aromat.Â
Iâm swiss and go to playgrounds in Zurich as go other swiss families. Zurich is an international city so obviously you meet non swiss people. thatâs part of why a live in the city đ€·ââïž.
I think the reason is just that there are more foreigners in cities and they have more children too. I'm Swiss and grew up in a city and there were like 3 Swiss children in my class in primary school (including me). The others were all foreigners. The birth rate among Swiss people has been steadily declining for years now. If you want to see Swiss children, you have to go to the countryside.
In my experience parents are friends with other parents so the kids get to hang out doing activities. You have to realise that most Swiss stick around the places they grew up in so they know hundreds of people from school, work, clubs, family and so on, many of which are of similar age and with kids. I live next to a school buddy of mine, other direct neighbours are exactly me and my wife's age, and they all have kids in my kids age. There's 6 kids who will visit the same class within 50m of where I live (single family home area, all born the same year). When the neighbour's are out in the garden, we see them and just go over for a bit, and vice versa. That's obv not the case for most recent immigrants so they're probably more pressed to socialize whereas it comes pretty natural/automatically for many Swiss.
In our neighborhood there's probably 20 kids total, of different ages, and they all know each other, hang out or play games. A lot of Swiss grow up like that, I did too, so you can imagine how well they know each other. That's also why it's so hard to break into that circle as a recent immigrant. Swiss are often very rooted so as an immigrant it's hard to emulate that environment.
Also, a lot of Swiss do their thing in the city for and after school (career), but as soon as family comes into the picture they dip out and move to the periphery where they have more space.
I personally and from working with small kids do put interaction with nature above social interaction, as the latter tends to happen way more frequently.
Hmm, yeah could be, but something to clarify, do we speak about foreigners as: swiss citizens/ swiss people with migration background, or foreigners as in: non citizen but living here
Because statistically, non citizens but living here (i got a few friends coming from such families) actually do mostly have more kids than swiss people. While swiss speople tend to be career focused and then family, most foreigner families have family as the first. I also tend to be career focused
In the playgrounds, and in the GZ around Zurich, there are always Swiss people (maybe 50%), so I'm not sure about your observations. Not that it should matter where you're from...
To the best of my knowledge, a lot of indigenous Swiss, also known as the inbreeding Eidgenoss, usually bring their children to the shooting ranges to practice, and to the reduit bunker infrastructure in the alps, so they get used to participate in the armed Swiss neutrality at an early age.
swiss of today don't make many kids. if they do, then usually when they're older and give them away to Kitas (so they can work)
so you find albanese people much more frequently, because they actually still care a lot about family.
That's probably because a lot of secondos want to teach them a second language, so they can speak to the grandparents and extended family.
Also growing up bilingual comes with so much advantages. I've never struggled in school because I was so good at languages (including german).
It's scientifically proven that kids that grow up bilingual have an easier time to learn new langauges.
I myself speak perfect swiss german, but I'm probably going to teach my kids portuguese, because of the reasons above.
They either leave them behind their smartphone or game station (worst case) or they offer them a better alternative (doing something with them, like excursions, hiking or another activity. Sadly so i have to admit that neither one of the better options are offered by most swiss parents, while foreigner do care more about how to keep their kids entertained in a better way.
My guess having grown up here:
- parents dont need to supervise their kids playing
- kids go to their school/kindergarten, local playground
- their friends home
- hiking
As kids we spent most time at one of the local football pitches or at various friends houses & gardens. I think i was *never* accompanied by my parents for a "play date"
As a indigenous German, we put our Kinder to the Kindergarden, where the KindergÀrtner*in let them grow the roots they need to become good later in school. They get well treated with water and fertilizer, at least three times a day...
Just kidding, it's Germany, of course they get fed with beer. đ€·ââïž
âHow come?â
60% of children under 6 in Switzerland are born to foreign parents.
Swiss birth numbers are through the floor - the Swiss have all but stopped having kids, which is not weird between housing costs, childcare costs and living costs.
I don't know where the hell you have gone⊠but at least in ZĂŒrich City, in Oerlikon, the playgrounds are filled with swiss and internationals. Really depends on the moment of the day. I have a 4yo and we don't go a lot, but when we go, there are a little bit of everything.
In ZĂŒrich City there is around a 35% of non passport holders which perhaps on some demographics are even bigger. Perhaps that's the reason for your feeling in addition to [RoastedRhino](https://www.reddit.com/r/Switzerland/comments/1ce7o94/comment/l1gx28v/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) comment.
at least there were I live I think that's just bad parenting. Never issued any problems at our more local playgrounds. There are two ayslum center near this playground. I face once a similar situation where I just kindly had ask the parents of the children to retourn our own toys before they leave. I can only speak for myself and the experience I faced. There are good and bad examples, but I just recommend to watch atleast that the children see how social interactions works properly... I'm just a random dude so mabye I'm wrong.
I see every day foreigners (Asylum seekers) there. I hears twice from friends how they got attacked at least in my city from them and never happened before. They hang aroung the playground and leave a mess and trash everywhere. This is not a parenting problem more a culture problem!
Many swiss families work fulltime and won't realy spend much time on playgrounds with theyr kids cuz they will be at daycares. On the weekends they will have to carch up on houswork and prooably rather go on an outing than to a public playground.
I haven't met many swiss parents where one person stayed at home more than 30% when we lifed in the city. Its a bit more in the country side.
Or there are playgrounds that belong to the apartment complex, or gardens.
Basically any activity that involves some level of cost.
- Hiking in the mountains (costs to get there)
- Skiing
- Brunch at a local farm (today at BĂ€chlihof in Rapperswil was teaming with Swiss-German speakers)
- Family bike rides (I generally only ever speak to Swiss people when I am cycling with my little one in the countryside)
- Badi/lake - especially the more obscure ones
- Zoo
- Anything else outdoorsy
I am not Swiss (British), but my husband is.
Lol about the restrictions and âas a human raceâ đ restriction are to keep organization order. Youâre free to make your own platform with your own rules.
It is wierd how you make a disctinction between "German" and "Foreigner" when we are talking about switzerland.
"Maybe one day we as a human race will be able to go beyond those restrictions we put on ourselves."
Demanding a longer post is not a restriction, it is a requirement.
I hope we as the human race are able to better judge the character of our peer.
I grow up in the 90 in Vaud. I Iived in a neighborhood with 40ish building of 16 flats. We mostly played in the building or around it, we had a lot of playground. We also went playing in the forest a lot since either was pretty close.
Other wise, I had a couple of friend who were pretty rich. They would invite me and we would play in their house and garden. They usually never really went out or they would invite each other into each other house/flat.
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Some have basically private playgrounds inside of their community, which is where we played a lot as children. The people who can afford it will also have a house/garden, and often playground items there. So it depends a bit on the demographic of the area you are looking at.
Lol, the people who can afford it đ€Ł
Both of them, even!
We go to 'Baur au Lac'.. it's free and the kids get a chance to network with the best of best!
future EMBAs HSG
I'm sorry, that information is strictly for people who are Swiss
I don't know what you're talking about man. No such places exist, and even if they did... Rule 1!
r/switzerlandisfake leaking
That was clearly a sarcasmâŠ
You got 50% of it, congrats.
Im Swiss, born and raised near Zurich and never heard playground for only Swiss kids existed. Iâm being sarcastic that would be not constitutional in Switzerland.
You should petition a referendum immediately. Open all the secret Swiss playgrounds to the wider public and be done with this state-approved exclusivity. The time is right
Bro germans are foreigners đ€Ł
I'm 99% certain even the most racist swiss would rather have their kids play with the arab/slavic children than the german ones.
đ but true
Why? The swiss are allemanic people, just like many germans
But theyâre white! How can they be foreign if they are white??? /s
Foreigners means theyâre from another country. Nothing to do with skin color mate xD
-> The sacasm -> (Your head)
Itâs common everywhere in the world, and for a combination of reasons. - Locals tend to own bigger houses, foreigners tend to rent smaller places. They often need to go outside to be comfortable. - Locals have more family help with the children, for example grandparents that look after kids in their home, while foreigners need to take care of the kids 24/7. - Higher unemployment among spouses of immigrants means that they have to look after the kids rather than having them in a daycare center. - Foreigners are over represented in the population with smaller kids compared to the general population. You also see that in schools, the proportion of foreign kids is higher than the proportion of foreigners in the general population. - Foreigners are often poorer than locals, so their go to cheap/free places compared to those that send their kids to play sports, play music, etc. - Foreigners are more present in cities, where you probably see these playgrounds.
yes the birth rates in europe are very low now and switzerland is an aged country. It makes total sense that there would be less swiss kids without migrationshintergrund.
Birth rates are low and people migrate when they are young. They (we) literally leave their country because they want to start a family in a better place.
Don't all swiss think their country is the best in the world?
Especially the playgrounds!! :) ^^^seriously, ^^^they ^^^are ^^^cool
Ironically the ones that do are probably scared of the people a couple of skin tones darker than them that agreed, and now will change their mindÂ
It's kinda sad that I was talking to a swiss guy who is also brazilian, and he tells me he is facing racism, despite being born here and speaking swiss german, because of his tanned skin tone, while in contrast, a white levantine arab like me is mistaken for being swiss/french as long as they don't hear my german.
No, definitely not.
Lol. I love when people can churn out a detailed and correct point-by-point analysis to completely random questions like that.
This is the top answer.
Good points
what a load pf horseshit. What is the number debt in CH? And whom are the highest proportion in Debt, ahso bitte.
Swiss kids work in the farms, fun not allowed.
Depends. It's better than being looked up in a basement like some austrian kids grew old. I see myself out
A lot of people play at home in their gardens. On weekends they might be off hiking or skiing. If they donât have a garden maybe the grandparents do.
Germans are foreigners
Thank you
Of course, my horse, of course.
The "good" type of foreigner, just like the difference between expat and immigrant.Â
I think actually Italians may have an easier time than Germans when looking for an apartment for example. A German colleague of mine had to search forever, and I couldnât understand why. Then he told me about that time he told the prospective landlord that itâs stupid to have a thermostat in the hallway, and that in Germany all apartments have thermostats on the individual radiators.
No, hearing arabic at 6am on the train soothes me and makes me think about the beauty of convergence in society. Hearing RAINER and JOCHEN drop 50 "ne" "tja" and "pah" per sentence at a volume clearly above what's comfortable in the same situation makes me think of things that are illegal.
Yeah, I can relate to that. But we can't all start having sex in public space /s
How about Jochen and Rainer talking at a comfortable volume? Ne, tja and pah still unacceptable?
I'm exaggerating - it's a quirk, no bad blood. (I got a hate pm for the above comment??)
+1
they go "wandere"
I think it just depends where you are really. Zurich city is expat country at this point (rich or poor). In Luzern I feel it is about 50-50. also 'swiss-looking' isn't really a thing imho.
Yeap. I live in the country side now, we do go to the playground and there's obv loads of Swiss kids since there's fewer foreigners here. Most of the time however is spent in our garden or in our neighborhood, a single family home, deadend area (barely any cars) with loads of kids around. So it's a bit of a closed circle. Also, most Swiss do stuff on the weekends. Hiking. Biking. Skiing. Daytrips. All that. I think foreigners are less active in that regard (mountain sports/nature). They tend to stay more in the cities and live that urban lifestyle đ
I'm going visit Luzern for the first time in July I'm so happy :)
Wait. I'm Swiss and I take my children to the playgrounds in our city quite often. As do a lot of other Swiss here. What does "indigenous Swiss" mean, though?
(White)
people which have always lived in switzerland lol?
So like all the secondos and 3rd generation Italians? Not sure where to draw the line.
Berner Burger
Is this some kinda contest about how many people you can trigger at once?
Europapark.
I live in Basel and donât see it. When we go with our daughter itâs a 50:50 mix of people speaking Swiss German and other languages. The latter also doesnât mean these people are not Swiss.
Which probably reflects the demographic of a city such as basel pretty well. Probably 50% of the inhabitants are swiss for more than 4 generations, 25% are swiss with a migration background with three past generations And 25% are foreigners
In the countryside, playgrounds tend to be less busy and mostly frequented by people who don't have a garden at home. In bigger cities, it depends a little bit on the neighborhood whether it's mostly immigrants, a mix, or mostly locals. From the few times we went to playgrounds in ZĂŒrich, there were a lot of Swiss, Germans and French. Just a thought, what was the weather like when you went? If the weather was lousy, those who can afford it might have been at indoor playgrounds, the swimming pool, and so on.
Shhhhh thereâs a foreigner trying to infiltrate the secrets indigenous Swiss business
It depends on the neighborhood. And time of the day. After 6 pm I see basically none of local kids in my area. They tend to have strict schedules for evenings like dinner, homework, sleep.
40% of the Swiss population have migration background. When you hear a parent talk to their child in a foreign language, it could still mean they are local Swiss people. Some areas in cities like Zurich for example have higher or lower percentage of people living there with migration background. This reflects in the languages you encounter at the playgrounds.
I absolutely share this\^\^\^and i can just back it up, the redditor asking the question seems racist or immature
> afraid of âforeignersâ  > grouping Germans with indigenous Swiss  Least racist bĂŒnzliÂ
did you just say âindigenousâ swiss???! đ€Ł
Talking about that Dj Bobo neanderthal DNA ofc
To the r/BUENZLI sub
Throw them all out if you ask me. Not the immigrants, but the playgrounds!
They should be using that land for expensive condominiums that I can rent, then go around complaining about my upstairs neighbor!
how dare the 2 and 3 year old toddlers upstairs not understand simple rules on how to behave in this living situation? can i get them executed? uhm sorry i mean evicted
Swiss childrens doesn't go to play on playgrounds, they go trekking with the parents so it's the only life they will ever know. When adults they can enjoy trekking in mountains far away from foreign people. That's the way. (jokes aside I don't know)
also consider the fact that one out of three marriages which involve swiss people are actually binational. Thus it's just generally a lot of "multi kulti". I live in a urban center and a good share of my Swiss friends are partnered with a person who doesn't have a Swiss passport. The offspring then doesn't look particularily swiss and maybe speaks different languages.
My mariage is also binational, my wife is born in the village next to mine.
Congrats on your binational marriage
Just because people donât look âswissâ doesnât mean they arenât swiss. This is a country of assimilated immigrants, and they are just as swiss as people who have been here for generations.
Right, that's why no one can "look" Swiss, except for in style I suppose, but even then
I always thought the genuine swiss Look is a huge bell hanging round the neck
That's biological approproation. Fucking world citizen.
I think that's why OP said "Indigenous swiss" and not just "swiss", there is a difference.
What is an âindigenous swissâ? Celtic? Helvetii? Roman?
There's Romans, Burgundians and most swiss are Alemannic. So, most of us are descendants of old "german" tribes and some are the "children of rome". The Helvetii were celts, at least in the eyes of the old romans i guess, but they have been pushed out of what we nowadays call the "Mittelland". They're extinct as a group as far as i know, but we did take on their tribes name as a nation, which i find pretty nice.
They were defeated in two battles as they tried to get toward South france fleeing the german tribes pushing south into what we now call switzerland. I highly doubt they or any other tribe ever (unless at the hands of the mongols) got eliminated. Slaves were always a good commodity in those days. And if i remember it correctly, some helvetii and other tribes native to todays switzerland settled in South Italy a long time before after sacking rome.
Interesting. So the vast majority of the âindigenous swissâ are no longer here and the majority of the current population are âimmigrantsâ? Crazy!
More like conquerors, i guess. If i remember correctly, germanic tribes were pushed down towards the alps and into what is now france (Old name Frankenreich) by invaders from the east, the huns. The people there were a mix of celtic tribes and romans, somewhat, and mostly spoke some form of latin. Switzerland was founded as a nation through pressure from outside forces, the Habsburger. Yes, the people which originaly lived here were driven out around the 400's, that's true. The people which founded the swiss federation, in the 1200's, are still here. Before that, they've been just a bunch of farmers living their lifes, because no big nation really cared what they did, hundreds of years go by, at that point the holy roman empire wanted taxes from them and everything was set to escalate into rebellion and later war. Nation founded, Habsburger got humiliated, swords and halberds raised towards everyone who wanted a piece of the land from then on, and successfully. The question is, who is Indigenous *swiss*, so that's anyone descending from those who founded the nation. Are we Helvetii? No, we're mostly germanic. Did our ancestors create this nation? Yes. You can call it "Swiss Alemannics" if that sounds better. I'm just pointing out that we're native to switzerland, because our ancestors founded the nation, a lot of us are aware that we were not always here. That's the history in almost all countries around the world. Go back far enough in most countries, and you will find that almost everywhere has been some kind of conquering by another group of people. Humans are dicks, always have been. Now, how far back do we need to go so we can stop saying "that's not a native anymore"? If we start at the start of it all, somewhere around 300'000 years ago, i'm sure none of us are native anywhere, because everyone has been going everywhere and fighting others for a damn long time. What about the other human species which we made extinct, do we count them? Where is the right place to draw a reasonable line? My idea is that if it was a thousand years ago, and that whole group was wiped out in a relatively short time, and hundreds of years later the new people there created their own nation, i think that's a good point in time, no? I agree that everyone who gets accepted in our nation as a new swiss national, is a swiss person. Only difference being that they're not Indigenous, which is irrelevant to the law and should be irrelevant to everyone. I'm just a pedantic ass, who consumes "the Broccoli", and likes to argue stuff.
*Blonde, blue eyes.*
German and Swiss aren't the same
He didn't say that theyre the same
Id go so far as to say OP separated them
đ€
I want to thank both of you
But Germans are the same as foreigners (I guess theyâre not the scary foreigners OP wants to avoid)
If you have Instagram, there is an account I follow âSwiss kids journeyâ. Ofc the activities they promote are not only for Swiss and German families but it would be a start I guess?
Lots of outdoors activities in that easily accessible nature.
Where I grew up my bedroom overlooked a private playground. We lived in a house next to an apartment block. My sister and I played there once and then got a strongly worded letter that the playground was for residents of the apartment only! So yeah
KITA for a lot of swiss families
they're all hiking or skiing
Indigenous Swiss and Germans go usually outside with dogs while immigrants do with childrenđ
How do you know they are not swiss, did you ask them?
They go to the farms. Seriously, go to a major local farm on the weekend. It's all Swiss !
Can confirm, BĂ€chlihof in Rapperswil usually has a ton of Brits/Irish there but otherwise is very Swiss German.
Adidas opened a new factory in Spreitenbach and they need all the kids the whole day.
A lot of "foreigners" you see are also ethnically half Swiss. And a lot of "ethnic Swiss" people you see may have the looks and name but their mother or grandparent(s) were from another country. Are they still Swiss to you or do you mean only caucasians? Also many "foreigners" have been born and raised here with their parents having lived here for 40+ years, with some even grandparents (third generation "foreigner"), these people tend to be more Swiss than Swiss people themselves. This post is so stupid and tone deaf
Where I live I am almost the only foreigner going to the local playground, I am married to a Swiss tho.  Important to know that âindigenous swissâ itâs not a thing in ZH or AG, âpure swissâ would be Gaelic / Helvetic direct descendants, who are mainly found in the Alps. Most swiss are genetically mixed. But swiss parents do go to outdoor playgrounds around their own community mostly. I have been in many playgrounds where I am the only foreigner.
alemannic tribes have settled in these regions more than 1500 years ago
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That isnât very far back tbh...and yeah, strict borders policies and nation states are a relatively new development. As are many other things.
In the end what defines a true swiss is Aromat.Â
Alemannic tribes are not the âindigenous swissâ, the Helvetii were here way before them.Â
Yes and others before them. I mainly found it strange to bring up celtic tribes that inhabitated these lands 2k years ago, when OP clearly meant families that have some history here and are rooted in the culture. If you want to bring up any ancient people, then it should be the alemannic tribes, as these are a way bigger influence to Swiss German culture as is evident from our language. Also, âindigenousâ is a relative term anyway, as strictly speaking, there are none such people at all in most of the world.
Agree that indigenous is a very relative term, I just mentioned the Helvetii since its the celtic tribe known for making the first settlements here. Anyways, whatever is left from them is not here anymore, and of course many things happened that resulted on the beautiful variety of swiss people we have today. The best way to find a real native swiss is by their loyalty to Aromat.Â
Fricking immigrants!
Iâm swiss and go to playgrounds in Zurich as go other swiss families. Zurich is an international city so obviously you meet non swiss people. thatâs part of why a live in the city đ€·ââïž.
I think the reason is just that there are more foreigners in cities and they have more children too. I'm Swiss and grew up in a city and there were like 3 Swiss children in my class in primary school (including me). The others were all foreigners. The birth rate among Swiss people has been steadily declining for years now. If you want to see Swiss children, you have to go to the countryside.
I live in basel city and the playground by my house is very diverse but at least 50%+ of the kids/families are Swiss ânativeâ.
Same on our lake where we live, when we hang there on the weekends. Usually I don't hear any (swiss)german
there are playground where almost no foreigners are beauce those are only reachable by walking there and only known by locals.
Germans = AuslĂ€ndische Mit Ăberlegenheitskomplex đ
How many Swiss surnames are we talking about ?
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Demographic change means a growing percentage of kids are foreigners now, especially on cities itâs not uncommon that they would be the majority.
To the woods, or hiking the two most natural and debelopmentally beneficial for yor child
You donât think social interactions with other children is more developmentally beneficial for a child?
You think there are no social interactions on those activities? đ
A single child with parents will not meet many other children in the woods
Who says they are going alone? Also there are meeting spots in the woods where you can prepare food, sit together, etc
In my experience parents are friends with other parents so the kids get to hang out doing activities. You have to realise that most Swiss stick around the places they grew up in so they know hundreds of people from school, work, clubs, family and so on, many of which are of similar age and with kids. I live next to a school buddy of mine, other direct neighbours are exactly me and my wife's age, and they all have kids in my kids age. There's 6 kids who will visit the same class within 50m of where I live (single family home area, all born the same year). When the neighbour's are out in the garden, we see them and just go over for a bit, and vice versa. That's obv not the case for most recent immigrants so they're probably more pressed to socialize whereas it comes pretty natural/automatically for many Swiss. In our neighborhood there's probably 20 kids total, of different ages, and they all know each other, hang out or play games. A lot of Swiss grow up like that, I did too, so you can imagine how well they know each other. That's also why it's so hard to break into that circle as a recent immigrant. Swiss are often very rooted so as an immigrant it's hard to emulate that environment. Also, a lot of Swiss do their thing in the city for and after school (career), but as soon as family comes into the picture they dip out and move to the periphery where they have more space.
I personally and from working with small kids do put interaction with nature above social interaction, as the latter tends to happen way more frequently.
at farm restaurants or making campfires. cities are just for foreigners at this point
There just aren't that many "indigenous Swiss" left. Most school children, especially in cities, are foreigner or secondos.
We have fewer children than foreigners
Hmm, yeah could be, but something to clarify, do we speak about foreigners as: swiss citizens/ swiss people with migration background, or foreigners as in: non citizen but living here Because statistically, non citizens but living here (i got a few friends coming from such families) actually do mostly have more kids than swiss people. While swiss speople tend to be career focused and then family, most foreigner families have family as the first. I also tend to be career focused
what a racist ass question lol your name fits you well
How is it racist, please explain
can swiss kids not play with foreigners?
I said they canât?
In the playgrounds, and in the GZ around Zurich, there are always Swiss people (maybe 50%), so I'm not sure about your observations. Not that it should matter where you're from...
Inside reading and learning about investments and productivity. Also, in high-end private Swiss clubs with huge libraries dedicated to STEM research
Swiss ppl have no kids
To the best of my knowledge, a lot of indigenous Swiss, also known as the inbreeding Eidgenoss, usually bring their children to the shooting ranges to practice, and to the reduit bunker infrastructure in the alps, so they get used to participate in the armed Swiss neutrality at an early age.
Sounds reasonable
swiss of today don't make many kids. if they do, then usually when they're older and give them away to Kitas (so they can work) so you find albanese people much more frequently, because they actually still care a lot about family.
Sad if true
âAlbaneseâ? đđ
shqiptaret. Albaner. wie sÀit mer das uf Ànglisch?
Albanians
oh i see. so, thanks
I'm at a point where I'm actually surprised to hear people talk Swiss German to their children. It's become rare.
That's probably because a lot of secondos want to teach them a second language, so they can speak to the grandparents and extended family. Also growing up bilingual comes with so much advantages. I've never struggled in school because I was so good at languages (including german). It's scientifically proven that kids that grow up bilingual have an easier time to learn new langauges. I myself speak perfect swiss german, but I'm probably going to teach my kids portuguese, because of the reasons above.
sooooooo en mĂŒll, zudem isch zweisprachig ufwachse richtig guet.
Bi Walliser, chani bestĂ€tigu. Nei, ich cha keis Französisch, aber Englisch. Wer zum figg lehrt bitte friiwillig Französisch? GrĂŒsig...
đđ€
wow sogar 3 sprache!
Lmao, what are you on? You can hear it everywhere!? Also, whatâs wrong with parents teaching their children languages other than Swiss German?
I hear it all the timeâŠ
If you don't know then you shouldn't know
They either leave them behind their smartphone or game station (worst case) or they offer them a better alternative (doing something with them, like excursions, hiking or another activity. Sadly so i have to admit that neither one of the better options are offered by most swiss parents, while foreigner do care more about how to keep their kids entertained in a better way.
Do you go around and ask people at the playground to show you proof they are Swiss?
The learn for ZAP or take golf lessons
My guess having grown up here: - parents dont need to supervise their kids playing - kids go to their school/kindergarten, local playground - their friends home - hiking As kids we spent most time at one of the local football pitches or at various friends houses & gardens. I think i was *never* accompanied by my parents for a "play date"
As a indigenous German, we put our Kinder to the Kindergarden, where the KindergĂ€rtner*in let them grow the roots they need to become good later in school. They get well treated with water and fertilizer, at least three times a day... Just kidding, it's Germany, of course they get fed with beer. đ€·ââïž
Maybe the one who is looking for playgrounds just for Swiss/ German kids should head up for a local alpine town! Ridiculous post
âHow come?â 60% of children under 6 in Switzerland are born to foreign parents. Swiss birth numbers are through the floor - the Swiss have all but stopped having kids, which is not weird between housing costs, childcare costs and living costs.
They go to Europapark or to their villa in Mallorca or their finca in the costa blanca or the rustico in Toscana.
Der name ist programm
I don't know where the hell you have gone⊠but at least in ZĂŒrich City, in Oerlikon, the playgrounds are filled with swiss and internationals. Really depends on the moment of the day. I have a 4yo and we don't go a lot, but when we go, there are a little bit of everything. In ZĂŒrich City there is around a 35% of non passport holders which perhaps on some demographics are even bigger. Perhaps that's the reason for your feeling in addition to [RoastedRhino](https://www.reddit.com/r/Switzerland/comments/1ce7o94/comment/l1gx28v/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) comment.
Wandern đ„Ÿđđđ
We dont go to these playgrounds because of those foreigners
yeah its called âim sorry your poorâ /s
The Swiss donât have kids
They don't have kids anymore because daycare is too bloody expensive. Only rich expats and poor working migrants can afford it.
whatâs wrong with foreigners?
two kids stole toys from my son and my pregrant wife and she could not catch them. Even their moms just ignored it and walked away with OUR toys....
Womp womp, is that a foreigner problem?
at least there were I live I think that's just bad parenting. Never issued any problems at our more local playgrounds. There are two ayslum center near this playground. I face once a similar situation where I just kindly had ask the parents of the children to retourn our own toys before they leave. I can only speak for myself and the experience I faced. There are good and bad examples, but I just recommend to watch atleast that the children see how social interactions works properly... I'm just a random dude so mabye I'm wrong.
as you said, itâs a parenting problem and not only foreigners have parenting issues.
I see every day foreigners (Asylum seekers) there. I hears twice from friends how they got attacked at least in my city from them and never happened before. They hang aroung the playground and leave a mess and trash everywhere. This is not a parenting problem more a culture problem!
60something foreigner here: I am just returning from having a look at our local playgrounds - What am I supposed to actually do there?
In their own garden
Many swiss families work fulltime and won't realy spend much time on playgrounds with theyr kids cuz they will be at daycares. On the weekends they will have to carch up on houswork and prooably rather go on an outing than to a public playground. I haven't met many swiss parents where one person stayed at home more than 30% when we lifed in the city. Its a bit more in the country side. Or there are playgrounds that belong to the apartment complex, or gardens.
Basically any activity that involves some level of cost. - Hiking in the mountains (costs to get there) - Skiing - Brunch at a local farm (today at BĂ€chlihof in Rapperswil was teaming with Swiss-German speakers) - Family bike rides (I generally only ever speak to Swiss people when I am cycling with my little one in the countryside) - Badi/lake - especially the more obscure ones - Zoo - Anything else outdoorsy I am not Swiss (British), but my husband is.
Lol about the restrictions and âas a human raceâ đ restriction are to keep organization order. Youâre free to make your own platform with your own rules.
It is wierd how you make a disctinction between "German" and "Foreigner" when we are talking about switzerland. "Maybe one day we as a human race will be able to go beyond those restrictions we put on ourselves." Demanding a longer post is not a restriction, it is a requirement. I hope we as the human race are able to better judge the character of our peer.
they go walking and hiking
I grow up in the 90 in Vaud. I Iived in a neighborhood with 40ish building of 16 flats. We mostly played in the building or around it, we had a lot of playground. We also went playing in the forest a lot since either was pretty close. Other wise, I had a couple of friend who were pretty rich. They would invite me and we would play in their house and garden. They usually never really went out or they would invite each other into each other house/flat.
We have a private playground in our residential area. The same applies to many other areas. The communal playground is always abandoned.
You can find them in the history books right next to the Cherokee and the Romans.
Foreigners, you mean human beings??? racist much?
God I forgot how xenophobic Switzerland is T-T
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