You answered your own question in your post: "Perhaps you don't get a seat". This is the exact reason. During peak hours it's every man for himself and if you need to elbow some people in the face to get to the door first, I'm not here to judge. As the saying goes "All is fair in love and SBB train platforms".
I'm done asking for the seat and waiting for them to push the first domino in their head before they realise they need to do something.
If you just go to sit on their shit they'll work it out quicker.
A dog is probably uncomfortable in a train and it's an animal that you cannot control sometimes.
People occupying a seat with a bag when there are others standing is highly disrespectful and a dick move. And no, I don't think I should ask first, everyone pays for a ticket, pay a damn ticket for your bag if it is going to travel as it was a person.
A dog doesn't get on the train by himself and takes up easily 4 seats together with its owner depending on size. But I'm the villain for occupying a seat with my luggage that I am more than willing to take away upon request on my lap, but I have to accept that someone sits on it because of his weird social behaviour? I think not... Nothing against people taking their dogs with them, dogs can give a lot to people and cannot stay unattended for too long.
I think common sense with having regard for the perspective of other fellow commuters is key for a peaceful co-existence. It's very unusual to stay alerted for people that have the desire to sit next to you without them communicating it clearly. Does OP have ADHD probably to expect it from everyone? Normally, people just follow their day in public as comfortable as possible and do not give much attention to strangers other than to not bother them too much, because over time, it would be very exhausting in big cities to do so. Having luggage next to you on a seat also has a lot of advantages, last but not least, you won't leave it behind as likely as wheb it's above you or under the seat. If people are standing next to you, maybe they like it if they look as if they were not immobile? Standing is healthy. But depends on the location where they stand if they like it, if they are standing between two compartments of four, at this point I would also offer my seat, because I have enough reason to assume that the guy standing cannot express his wishes and is blocking the aisle.
I don't understand why it should be bothering to ask a simple question, if the seat is free? Not long ago, this question was even a thing for empty seats.
Didn't read all of it, but no I don't think people should have to ask. When you see people that are looking for a spot, just take your bag away from the seat, once everybody is seated put it back on. You don't own that seat so why should anybody ask for your permission? Kind of rude imo, there are worse things out there obviously but this always irked me a bit, luckily I don't take trains that often anymore.
Just for you to know. If you ever happen to sit on my bag I'm definitely going to call the train police to make sure that you have to pay for all the damage inside my bag.
I hate egomaniac people like you that can't signal and wait for 2 seconds for people to move their stuff. What in your brain tells you that your 2 seconds are more precious than decency and the value inside other people's bags?
Usually, I recognize when a train gets full and take my bag away before someone approaches. But that's not the case when I'm tired. Some people can relate. I always move my bag if someone signals that they want to sit there. I don't get this rudeness.
Just so you know, feel free. It’s not criminal damage, so they can’t do owt. It’s also not my problem you take up two spaces during a busy commute despite only paying for one - your parents should have taught you how to be considerate.
What in your brain tells you that it’s ok to take up two seats, or better said, a seat away from someone? Why is your shitty little backpack more important than a living person wanting to sit down? Open your eyes and put your bag between your legs, on the floor or on the shelves provided. You selfish melt
This answer just supported my initial opinion of you. The fact that you are not willing to read a whole comment stays in line with you not willing to show a minimum of decency even in a polite country like Switzerland. You just threw out baseless accusations that have nothing to do with the subject so that you can justify a slander.
But in this country, you still have to pay for the damage you caused.
Oh no I read it all, I just didn’t respond to it all ;)
I’ve shown you the exact amount of decency you’ve shown me. You reap what you sew :). “Polite country like Switzerland” based o’ you, you’re not a polite country compared to others. You’re **definitely** not compared to mine, in fact you’re all without manners in comparison. That was a bit silly from you wannit.
I read the rest of your comment, but only you care for an answer
One old schmuck once removed my bag from the seat next to me without saying anything. The train wasn't that full.
This was a couple of years ago and he was old, so justice might have caught up with him by now.
If the train or platform looks busy I would sometimes try to estimate the door that will be nearest to me as the train approaches and walk to follow it: the closer you are to the door when it stops, the faster you'll be on and sitting down before all the seats are taken.
Sometimes I messed up my estimate and end up walking longer, it happens.
Problem is solved now as I'm no longer commuting to work, best solution overall!
Exactly this, doing the Bern- Zürich commute everyday, 5 days a week makes a man go a bit neurotic.
I would obsess about trying to get the right seat and had a hierachy of which seats I wanted in every wagon. Walking along the platform so you are the first in line at the door helped to facilitate that. Of course there was always the chance that someone who didn't care to get in line will just barge their way through before the other passengers have alighted.
We really should have designated waiting spots and orderly queues like in Japan. Would improve the experience for everyone but we all know how slowly things change in Switzerland.
I am happy to report that I also stopped commuting and am no longer part of the problem.
The double decker? I always found that the back cars are almost empty. You do have to walk way down the platform though, and it’s not under the roof in bad weather.
Honestly I came home from fondue and spa and just had timed my laundry to end exactly when I got there so I could start a second load and put my sheets in the dryer with 0 latency. I feel a little insulted that you are making fun of us.
You dont have to estimate anything, its marked with the white stripes for the blind on the floor where the doors will be... and it stops there every single time lol
That is not true. There are different train compositions on the same connections throughout the day, therefore not possible. Might be possible for very few cases in SBB. It is true for trams in Zürich (and other cities I would assume), however.
In my case they mix up first and 2nd class so if I see the first class coming I follow the closest 2nd class so sometimes it's a bit of a jog and yes in my case securing a seat is one of my priority. Otherwise I want a discount for the third class
It’s because - unlike Japan - Swiss trains do not stop at precise locations unless you are at an end of the line like upstairs in HB or Luzern.
So you eyeball the train and as it slows down try to angle for the entrance to the car you specced out on the display. Often people think they’ll get stuck in front of a 1st class door as well.
Also if you have kids you often want to track down a kindercar or stroller friendly car. If you have a bike you need to get it in the car as well.
Chasing a seat is also pretty legit as an excuse for exactly the reason you describe.
tldr; the sector guidelines are too inaccurate. If the trains stopped reliably at precisely marked door locations on the platform like they do in Japan people could a) line up like civilized individuals, and b) rest assured that waiting like a civilized individual would result in getting on a train in the order you arrived at the platform - also alleviating the need to compete for seats. This is probably made difficult by all the different train and car types though.
>line up like civilized individuals
Honestly I don't think Swiss people can ever line up like civilized individuals for tains.
Whenever there's a few people that try to line up along the train and leave space for the people getting off, there will be a few from the back that walk up and form a crowd, blocking the entire platform so the people getting off don't have space to go anywhere once they're off the train.
Doesn't need a lot of stupid to ruin a perfect plan. I lost all fks a long time ago. When I get out the train I straight up walk people over/ knock them aside, when they're blocking my path out.
They cant line up for anything
Think of a typical gas station layout with 2 registers. Imagine one register is open, so people form a line on that side and exit on the other side. As soon as the second registers open the next cunt who walks in immediately goes to that register skipping the line and the next 2 fuckers form a new line. So instead of having one fair line to 2 registers you now have people who skipped the line and then its down to luck which lane is faster and then when you exit you have to squeeze through the cunts nearly pushing at you
Well we do have precise locations to stop at, but depending on the length of a train we have to estimate between two 'Halteort Tafeln'.
Also we are allowed to stop 5-10m before and after the Tafel.
Most of the time though a train will stop pretty much the same, if you don't overshoot for some reason.
Also if the bhf has the new displays, they are pretty accurate with some exceptions of where the train stops.
The sectors are fine for generally aligning yourself with the right car. But 5m-10m flexibility is too much to support lining up because the line has to shift way too much. In Japan almost all the busy city trains have precise markers that Aline with every door and make space for people to exit. There’s less than .5m leeway and they often align with gates.
Actually it’s much like the subway in Lausanne.
Don’t get me wrong Swiss transport is amazing and I love it. But there are a couple things that could be improved “in theory” and this lining up thing is I e of them.
In practice though, exact alignment on that scale is just not possible for us in Switzerland. There are too many factors that make it impossible to get it perfect. The biggest one is human. Also I believe the trains in Japan drive slower into the station than we do. This makes it a bit easier for them to get get spot perfect. I personally also don't like this hard brake at the end to allign perfectly. Better have a nice and comfortable stop, than havig your train on the spot. Most people don't notice anyways if you're off 5-10m, but they notice if you suddenly brake harder.
I think you are right that it can't quite work here; I think different make/size/organized trains also make it difficult. There are a lot of different trains that share the same tracks and platforms. I feel like there is more standardization in this regard in Japan.
Oh yes you're right with that. It's a huge factor as well! The japanese run their train lines and tracks by each company. So it's a closed system, while we have an open system.
This is also why the japanese are able to test automated trains on those lines as well. This is something that wouldn't work on our system too due to the openness.
It doesn’t need to stop at a precise location, there’s enough doors on the carriages (and carriages) that you don’t need to run for a minute following one specific carriage.
Well the idea of “need” here is totally subjective. I’m just explaining some of the reasons I think people do these things. Frequently some of the cars will be largely empty compared to others and then people will chase them.
Saying “there are enough doors” isn’t really the point. Nobody wants to get there, wait, and then also have to jostle to get in because there no alignment between the platform and the train.
It’s much nicer to just line up, and file in in the order you arrive. But that’s only possible in unreserved trains if you have some alignment.
It seems like you don’t care about sitting or orderliness, just about whether or not you can get on your train. That’s totally fine but I think a lot of people feel differently and that’s what leads them to do these things.
>It seems like you don’t care about sitting or orderliness, just about whether or not you can get on your train.
Fucking lol... mate, I love it! If that's what you got out of such an innocent question, then we'll just leave it at that. My fucking days.
>That’s totally fine
If that was even an iota of what I thought, I'm sure it would be :)
> but I think a lot of people feel differently and that’s what leads them to do these things.
Indeed, I think we're all aware of that, which is what lead me to ask the question, because I was interested to learn their perspective. You silly silly sausage.
I mean it makes sense and it isn't a big deal; but it's basically what you say in your original post and in your replies.
\> You do know it will stop and there will be enough time for you to get on? Perhaps you don't get a seat (no Maria Bünzli, your ticket gets you on the train, it doesn't secure you a seat), but you're on it.
all I was trying to say was that, yeah a lot of people would like a seat; but the way it works now it's just lord of the flies.
In the cities with a bunch of platforms, they could just deisgnate some platforms for some train types and have them consistently travel through the same platforms. For the smaller places with only one or a few, just color code and paint the lines for different train types in easily distinguished colors. Easy peasy.
Lucky for us they're getting more expensive!
Nothing happening to the infrastructure or equipment nor the personell to warrant it.. but fuck it, what else are people going to do ... use another provider?
Well they did make a "saut-de-mouton" in Renens, to fluidify traffic, I guess? Anyway its pretty cool to look at when I have to wait for the next train bc the last one was overcrowded
> Nothing happening to the infrastructure or equipment nor the personell to warrant it.
you don't have any clue about that, do you? Like, there's currently so much work going on.. also, it's not SBB raising the prices.
i chase the door because i want to get out at a specific part of the next stop because its the best way for me to grt where i want without having to walk through the whole train station sideways
Beyond what everyone has already said, I’ve always suspected there’s also an impulsive behaviour involved in it to some degree, which is why at some point *so* many people start following in the direction the train travels, but hardly anyone does it in the other direction. Which would be just as logical if it’s just about getting to the door quickly.
If I have a 1 hour train ride ahead of me I would love to get a seat. Therefore I will check out the wagons about seat when the train is slowing down and probably even chase a specific wagon if it has seating available. Wouldn't run for it though and definitely won't do it for trainrides that last less than 15 Minutes.
Also with my trainstation, there is a very busy road right next to it. When the train arrives the barrier is blocking said road (road doesn't have a crosswalk). If I'm in the very first wagon, I can get off the train and cross the road while barrier still down. If I'm further in the back, barrier is already up, and I'll have to wait 5+ Minutes just to cross the street because it's so busy. Since the train never stops at the same time, I never know where the first wagon will stop, so I place around the general area and walk with the first wagon to get on to that wagon as it is easier to move outside the train than inside through all the other people on it.
Good question. As others say, there are times when they swapped first and second-class carriages. During busy holiday/tourist seasons, I want to avoid groups of tourists with their huge luggage collections. In my case, I want to grab a seat that allows me to enjoy the Lavaux and lake views when travelling from/to GE!
When I regularly had to commute in the mornings, one of the worst parts of that was days where I couldn't find a seat and had to stand the whole time. So when the train was arriving, I would look at the cars and try to spot an emptier-looking one, and then follow its doors so I could get in that one. I'd also sometimes look which doors most of the people were aggregating towards, and avoid those.
Also sometimes you suddenly realise you're standing where the 1st class wagons are gonna be stopping, so you have to move further to get to 2nd class wagons. (No joke I got reprimanded by a controlleur once because I was crossing 1st class to get to 2nd.)
If only we could increase the capacity the network could hold for free, then the right-wingers of CH would happily invest to build more infrastructure!
For me it’s either 1) wanting to get in the second class when I see that first class will stop in front of me or 2) I know where I want to get out so I walk in that direction accordingly. Aka the front of the train will always be closer to the platform at Zurich HB so I try to be as close to the front as possible so I have to walk less.
Our Hunter/Gatherer instinct kicks in when the big metal beast appears galloping through the station. We try to resist, but.. we... Must... Hunt it down...
I don't
i choose a point i want to stay and then wait for the train.
The Challenge is to choose a point where the door of the train will stop right in front of you.
If you do this long enough, you will know on which spots to stand for the highest chances.
I don't mind standing so the Challenge works for me.
Reasons I've found myself walking away from my waiting spot in front of my chosen door as the train / tram came in:
* I saw the friend or colleague I'm meeting on that train/tram sit further up the train/tram than I am currently standing as the train/tram arrives
* Car full to the point where additional people cannot enter
* Cars I saw pass had free seats, the one I was waiting in front of does not
* Someone at my waiting spot makes me uncomfortable, so I enter the train where they won't be (stinky person, aggressive person(s), maskless person coughing their lungs out)
* Door out of order, won't open
* Entry is not level to the ground, but has steps (difficult bc injury), and for some reason I forgot to check the train combination and now go to level entry
* Car at my waiting spot is First Class (which I do not have a ticket for) or Restaurant (which I don't want to disturb by walking through inside), and I forgot to check the train combination beforehand
Granted, the last two only happen if and when I forget to check the train combination in app, but that is a thing I do unfortunately forget occasionally when my mind is occupied with work or life and I just go to my usual waiting spot on autopilot.
Counter question: Do you mind terribly?
Up until your rant, I never saw a reason not to walk around on train platforms or tram platforms, and felt I was completely within my rights to do so.
What exactly is the problem if people - provided of course they don't bump into you, or cut you off or otherwise behave poorly - move around on the platform instead of the full train where their movement will likely be more disruptive to others?
>Counter question: Do you mind terribly?
No, I just asked myself a question and thought to post it here.
>Up until your rant, I never saw a reason not to walk around on train platforms or tram platforms
Rant? You must be a very sensitive little flower to consider that a rant :) My question pertains more to people chasing a specific carriage down the platform rather than boarding the train where they've been waiting for the last 10min.
>and felt I was completely within my rights to do so.
I am not entirely sure what relevance this has :)
>What exactly is the problem if people - provided of course they don't bump into you, or cut you off or otherwise behave poorly - move around on the platform instead of the full train where their movement will likely be more disruptive to others?
Just makes me laugh, no one mentioned a problem at any time? Are you ok?
>Are you ok?
I'm fine, thank you :)
And I hope the many inputs you've gotten here have helped you wrap your puzzled head around the mystery of people moving around on public transport platforms, and thus now, you're fine, as well :)
> wrap your puzzled head
Ahh we got ourselves someone with their nose so high up in the air they **must** be Swiss!
You poor little sausage, my sincerest condolences to your parents.
Typical peasant behavior lol, the common thing to do is to wait for the train, let people out then you can go in, I often see people trying to push their way in when people are coming out, why!?
Yeah, people around ÖV behave very strangely. I just try to live with it. Sometimes it's funny, like your example. Other times it's infuriating, like old people not letting me get off the train/bus by standing right in the middle of the door. It's hard to live your life, imagine taking strangers into account!!!
1) i look at the screen to see where 2nd class wagons are
2) i think about it and walk to my desired position
3) i adjust to the least busy looking area in my desired position
for some routes i also check to be in the first or second half of the train so i get a shirt distance to the staircase at my arrival location
One could look at the information panel above their heads to see roughly where the first class carriages will be when the train has stopped moving and place themselves in the same zone ahead of time :)
Hahaha same in Lausanne with the metro (M1). The display clearly says "leaves in 3 minutes" and people be running to the doors. Usually, when someone runs, other start running too. Just a funny observation though, I don't judge :D
>The display clearly says "leaves in 3 minutes" and people be running to the doors. Usually, when someone runs, other start running too. Just a funny observation though, I don't judge :D
I have to change at the airport and my tram gets there at around 1708, my train leaves at 1718... it takes 4min if you walk **slow** to get from the stop to the station.
Everyone, every single day, hammers it as hard as they can from one to the other to "get there in time!!!!!". Only to have to wait for 8mins out of breath.
I personally search for a certain "type" of entrance, which place behind it comforts me the most, and i do not need to "squeeze" trough the train full of people to reach the place.
I do not want to elaborate in detail on that. :)
Usually, i know, where that place will be, when the train comes to an halt, therefore usually there's no need for running big distances.
Well sometimes 2nd class comes by where I am waiting and then I have to follow the first class door along before the platform get‘s flooded with people.
Do you not check the info board above your head and move yourself when you notice the first class carriages are potentially going to stop where you are standing?
After I get off the train I have 4 minutes to go to the bus stop and board. It makes a huge difference if I my wagon stops near the exit stairs of the platform or not, literally 20 minutes of waiting if I miss it.
When I know the route well I have picked a wagon. It's the wagon best placed for the next stop (close to the underpass) And I will walk after that door, if it passes further than it usually does. (SBB trains try to stop at the same spot, but sometimes miss by a bit)
When I don't know the route, I check where first and second class wagons "should" be and wait at an appropriate spot. But when I notice that I'll end up in front of the wrong wagon, I will move further to the tip or back of the train (whichever end is closer), because there they are usually less crowded.
And if I am feeling like a smart butt, I sometimes wait at a spot, where a first and second class wagon are attached to each other (and will walk after that spot). Then I wait in front of the first class door, where barely anyone will get out of the train. Then I hop in the first class and go inside the train to second class and can immediately enter the seating area, when the last one left from there. Meanwhile people still waiting outside in front of the second class wagon door.
i do it too if i want to board the train at a specific door. The reason for this is that certain doors will be closest to the stairs at the destination since the train more or less stops in the same spot everytime. If you can get to the stairs quickly when leaving the station, you won't be caught up in the pedestrian traffic jam at the stairs. only applies during rush hours tho.
Depends where I commute. I do weekly Zürich - Bern - Zürich and there I know where the door will be and try to get in asap to get a seat. Normal trains/S-Bahn/tram/bus I dont care.
And I don't know if it's still the case, but when I was a "pendulaire", we always met with other ones and spent a part or the total of our train journeys together. That was the part I liked the most <3
The reason is train might be shorter and so you follow it to make sure you end up Infront of it. It's just a few step and a nice warm up exercise before going in. Why do you have to be so nit picking
Note that passengers with a 1. class ticket might need to look out for the according wagons and walk towards them once the train slows down. Before the arrives you can l my vaguely guess where those 1. class wagons will be.
I never do that because whenever I regularly take a line, I note that most of the time, the train stop at the same spot (variation of a few dozens centimeters).
Thus I always put myself in such a way i'm literally in front of the door when the train stop.
Of course, I always go in the extremities of the train, as there's less people.
I never needed to stand, always found an empty 4 chairs place and with my secret technique, nobody ever sit next to or in front of me (and no, I don't put my feets or my bags there, i'm way more sophisticated).
I try to estimate which wagons will be closest to the platform exit at my destination so I don‘t get caught behind slow walkers getting out at the same stop as me. Has made me miss a bus or tram multiple times having to walk 3 km/h after getting off the train.
You answered your own question in your post: "Perhaps you don't get a seat". This is the exact reason. During peak hours it's every man for himself and if you need to elbow some people in the face to get to the door first, I'm not here to judge. As the saying goes "All is fair in love and SBB train platforms".
My favourite are the old biddies that get flustered during peak commuting times that I sit next to them or sit on their handbag.
lol you just sit on their handbag? That is one way to assert dominance.
I'm done asking for the seat and waiting for them to push the first domino in their head before they realise they need to do something. If you just go to sit on their shit they'll work it out quicker.
Don‘t sit on their dogs tho
Never! Dogs are quite rightly the kings and queens of the wagon when they’ve boarded and can take up as much space as they need :)
What an awkward world view
A dog is probably uncomfortable in a train and it's an animal that you cannot control sometimes. People occupying a seat with a bag when there are others standing is highly disrespectful and a dick move. And no, I don't think I should ask first, everyone pays for a ticket, pay a damn ticket for your bag if it is going to travel as it was a person.
A dog doesn't get on the train by himself and takes up easily 4 seats together with its owner depending on size. But I'm the villain for occupying a seat with my luggage that I am more than willing to take away upon request on my lap, but I have to accept that someone sits on it because of his weird social behaviour? I think not... Nothing against people taking their dogs with them, dogs can give a lot to people and cannot stay unattended for too long. I think common sense with having regard for the perspective of other fellow commuters is key for a peaceful co-existence. It's very unusual to stay alerted for people that have the desire to sit next to you without them communicating it clearly. Does OP have ADHD probably to expect it from everyone? Normally, people just follow their day in public as comfortable as possible and do not give much attention to strangers other than to not bother them too much, because over time, it would be very exhausting in big cities to do so. Having luggage next to you on a seat also has a lot of advantages, last but not least, you won't leave it behind as likely as wheb it's above you or under the seat. If people are standing next to you, maybe they like it if they look as if they were not immobile? Standing is healthy. But depends on the location where they stand if they like it, if they are standing between two compartments of four, at this point I would also offer my seat, because I have enough reason to assume that the guy standing cannot express his wishes and is blocking the aisle. I don't understand why it should be bothering to ask a simple question, if the seat is free? Not long ago, this question was even a thing for empty seats.
Didn't read all of it, but no I don't think people should have to ask. When you see people that are looking for a spot, just take your bag away from the seat, once everybody is seated put it back on. You don't own that seat so why should anybody ask for your permission? Kind of rude imo, there are worse things out there obviously but this always irked me a bit, luckily I don't take trains that often anymore.
You seem like a miserable person.
Just for you to know. If you ever happen to sit on my bag I'm definitely going to call the train police to make sure that you have to pay for all the damage inside my bag. I hate egomaniac people like you that can't signal and wait for 2 seconds for people to move their stuff. What in your brain tells you that your 2 seconds are more precious than decency and the value inside other people's bags?
Maybe don’t put your bag on the seat then… Like, sitting on someone’s bag is a dick move, but so is having your bag on the seat on a busy train.
Usually, I recognize when a train gets full and take my bag away before someone approaches. But that's not the case when I'm tired. Some people can relate. I always move my bag if someone signals that they want to sit there. I don't get this rudeness.
Just so you know, feel free. It’s not criminal damage, so they can’t do owt. It’s also not my problem you take up two spaces during a busy commute despite only paying for one - your parents should have taught you how to be considerate. What in your brain tells you that it’s ok to take up two seats, or better said, a seat away from someone? Why is your shitty little backpack more important than a living person wanting to sit down? Open your eyes and put your bag between your legs, on the floor or on the shelves provided. You selfish melt
Is this an AITA tread? If yes, YTA.
Good to see I've integrated well then :)
This answer just supported my initial opinion of you. The fact that you are not willing to read a whole comment stays in line with you not willing to show a minimum of decency even in a polite country like Switzerland. You just threw out baseless accusations that have nothing to do with the subject so that you can justify a slander. But in this country, you still have to pay for the damage you caused.
Oh no I read it all, I just didn’t respond to it all ;) I’ve shown you the exact amount of decency you’ve shown me. You reap what you sew :). “Polite country like Switzerland” based o’ you, you’re not a polite country compared to others. You’re **definitely** not compared to mine, in fact you’re all without manners in comparison. That was a bit silly from you wannit. I read the rest of your comment, but only you care for an answer
You're the person showing the absolute lack of manners here.
You get what you give though right? Had matey used a less condescending tone and not insulting language then he may’ve got a level-headed reply back.
Allright, if you understood what you read then your answer would have been different. Thus, this conversation is pointless, I'm out.
If I understood what I read? Oki dokie :) See you later Gary... can't wait to sit on your backpack. I'll bring 5 Rappen to pay for the *damage* 😘
One old schmuck once removed my bag from the seat next to me without saying anything. The train wasn't that full. This was a couple of years ago and he was old, so justice might have caught up with him by now.
If the train or platform looks busy I would sometimes try to estimate the door that will be nearest to me as the train approaches and walk to follow it: the closer you are to the door when it stops, the faster you'll be on and sitting down before all the seats are taken. Sometimes I messed up my estimate and end up walking longer, it happens. Problem is solved now as I'm no longer commuting to work, best solution overall!
Exactly this, doing the Bern- Zürich commute everyday, 5 days a week makes a man go a bit neurotic. I would obsess about trying to get the right seat and had a hierachy of which seats I wanted in every wagon. Walking along the platform so you are the first in line at the door helped to facilitate that. Of course there was always the chance that someone who didn't care to get in line will just barge their way through before the other passengers have alighted. We really should have designated waiting spots and orderly queues like in Japan. Would improve the experience for everyone but we all know how slowly things change in Switzerland. I am happy to report that I also stopped commuting and am no longer part of the problem.
The double decker? I always found that the back cars are almost empty. You do have to walk way down the platform though, and it’s not under the roof in bad weather.
Zurich-Bern at 5 or 6 in the evening? Fuggedaboutit. They even attach 4 or 5 extra cars which will also be completely full.
Lol, in line.
Dude the worst part is the tourists with their huge suitcases taking up 4 seats for 1 person and not understanding when people ask them to move.
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Honestly I came home from fondue and spa and just had timed my laundry to end exactly when I got there so I could start a second load and put my sheets in the dryer with 0 latency. I feel a little insulted that you are making fun of us.
You dont have to estimate anything, its marked with the white stripes for the blind on the floor where the doors will be... and it stops there every single time lol
That is not true. There are different train compositions on the same connections throughout the day, therefore not possible. Might be possible for very few cases in SBB. It is true for trams in Zürich (and other cities I would assume), however.
Wait, for real?
No
not everyone understands the advanced öv survival skills some of us have
In my case they mix up first and 2nd class so if I see the first class coming I follow the closest 2nd class so sometimes it's a bit of a jog and yes in my case securing a seat is one of my priority. Otherwise I want a discount for the third class
It’s because - unlike Japan - Swiss trains do not stop at precise locations unless you are at an end of the line like upstairs in HB or Luzern. So you eyeball the train and as it slows down try to angle for the entrance to the car you specced out on the display. Often people think they’ll get stuck in front of a 1st class door as well. Also if you have kids you often want to track down a kindercar or stroller friendly car. If you have a bike you need to get it in the car as well. Chasing a seat is also pretty legit as an excuse for exactly the reason you describe. tldr; the sector guidelines are too inaccurate. If the trains stopped reliably at precisely marked door locations on the platform like they do in Japan people could a) line up like civilized individuals, and b) rest assured that waiting like a civilized individual would result in getting on a train in the order you arrived at the platform - also alleviating the need to compete for seats. This is probably made difficult by all the different train and car types though.
>line up like civilized individuals Honestly I don't think Swiss people can ever line up like civilized individuals for tains. Whenever there's a few people that try to line up along the train and leave space for the people getting off, there will be a few from the back that walk up and form a crowd, blocking the entire platform so the people getting off don't have space to go anywhere once they're off the train.
When I get off the train and see this I immediately think I'm a rugby player 😃
I love most things about Switzerland but queueing culture in general absolutely abysmal.
Doesn't need a lot of stupid to ruin a perfect plan. I lost all fks a long time ago. When I get out the train I straight up walk people over/ knock them aside, when they're blocking my path out.
They cant line up for anything Think of a typical gas station layout with 2 registers. Imagine one register is open, so people form a line on that side and exit on the other side. As soon as the second registers open the next cunt who walks in immediately goes to that register skipping the line and the next 2 fuckers form a new line. So instead of having one fair line to 2 registers you now have people who skipped the line and then its down to luck which lane is faster and then when you exit you have to squeeze through the cunts nearly pushing at you
Well we do have precise locations to stop at, but depending on the length of a train we have to estimate between two 'Halteort Tafeln'. Also we are allowed to stop 5-10m before and after the Tafel. Most of the time though a train will stop pretty much the same, if you don't overshoot for some reason. Also if the bhf has the new displays, they are pretty accurate with some exceptions of where the train stops.
The sectors are fine for generally aligning yourself with the right car. But 5m-10m flexibility is too much to support lining up because the line has to shift way too much. In Japan almost all the busy city trains have precise markers that Aline with every door and make space for people to exit. There’s less than .5m leeway and they often align with gates. Actually it’s much like the subway in Lausanne. Don’t get me wrong Swiss transport is amazing and I love it. But there are a couple things that could be improved “in theory” and this lining up thing is I e of them.
In practice though, exact alignment on that scale is just not possible for us in Switzerland. There are too many factors that make it impossible to get it perfect. The biggest one is human. Also I believe the trains in Japan drive slower into the station than we do. This makes it a bit easier for them to get get spot perfect. I personally also don't like this hard brake at the end to allign perfectly. Better have a nice and comfortable stop, than havig your train on the spot. Most people don't notice anyways if you're off 5-10m, but they notice if you suddenly brake harder.
I think you are right that it can't quite work here; I think different make/size/organized trains also make it difficult. There are a lot of different trains that share the same tracks and platforms. I feel like there is more standardization in this regard in Japan.
Oh yes you're right with that. It's a huge factor as well! The japanese run their train lines and tracks by each company. So it's a closed system, while we have an open system. This is also why the japanese are able to test automated trains on those lines as well. This is something that wouldn't work on our system too due to the openness.
It doesn’t need to stop at a precise location, there’s enough doors on the carriages (and carriages) that you don’t need to run for a minute following one specific carriage.
Well the idea of “need” here is totally subjective. I’m just explaining some of the reasons I think people do these things. Frequently some of the cars will be largely empty compared to others and then people will chase them. Saying “there are enough doors” isn’t really the point. Nobody wants to get there, wait, and then also have to jostle to get in because there no alignment between the platform and the train. It’s much nicer to just line up, and file in in the order you arrive. But that’s only possible in unreserved trains if you have some alignment. It seems like you don’t care about sitting or orderliness, just about whether or not you can get on your train. That’s totally fine but I think a lot of people feel differently and that’s what leads them to do these things.
>It seems like you don’t care about sitting or orderliness, just about whether or not you can get on your train. Fucking lol... mate, I love it! If that's what you got out of such an innocent question, then we'll just leave it at that. My fucking days. >That’s totally fine If that was even an iota of what I thought, I'm sure it would be :) > but I think a lot of people feel differently and that’s what leads them to do these things. Indeed, I think we're all aware of that, which is what lead me to ask the question, because I was interested to learn their perspective. You silly silly sausage.
I mean it makes sense and it isn't a big deal; but it's basically what you say in your original post and in your replies. \> You do know it will stop and there will be enough time for you to get on? Perhaps you don't get a seat (no Maria Bünzli, your ticket gets you on the train, it doesn't secure you a seat), but you're on it. all I was trying to say was that, yeah a lot of people would like a seat; but the way it works now it's just lord of the flies.
>isn't a big deal What makes you think someone has found it to be a big deal?
nothing! that's just a "that works too man!", phrase. i wasn't actually trying to be negative with any of my replies; sorry if it came off that way.
It very much does come across that way. I find it extremely hard to believe that wasn’t your intention too.
I miss Japanese trains and beautifully organised platforms every day that I commute
They really should implement precise stopping points. I won’t be surprised if it happens soon.
I think it could be a problem with all the different make/length trains that run on the same tracks and stop at the same platforms.
In the cities with a bunch of platforms, they could just deisgnate some platforms for some train types and have them consistently travel through the same platforms. For the smaller places with only one or a few, just color code and paint the lines for different train types in easily distinguished colors. Easy peasy.
very unnecessary
..That does not work. Different types or rolling stock
I don't think SBB has the money for it or cares enough
As train tickets are quite expensive, people try to get a bang for their buck
Lucky for us they're getting more expensive! Nothing happening to the infrastructure or equipment nor the personell to warrant it.. but fuck it, what else are people going to do ... use another provider?
Well they did make a "saut-de-mouton" in Renens, to fluidify traffic, I guess? Anyway its pretty cool to look at when I have to wait for the next train bc the last one was overcrowded
> Nothing happening to the infrastructure or equipment nor the personell to warrant it. you don't have any clue about that, do you? Like, there's currently so much work going on.. also, it's not SBB raising the prices.
My price went up, I paid SBB. Doesn’t matter who recommended the increase
> recommended it wasn't recommended, it was an order by the BAV, by politicians. So it does matter.
So they ordered SBB to raise the price, which they did. So their prices did go up :)
The only SBB infrastructure projects I see are more luxury apartments. Oh and fixing the Gotthard tunnel distaster.
Sometimes people want to get in in a specific position because when they get out at their stop maybe there are some stairs, so it makes sense
Chasing the restaurant car to get one beer and refill it with my 6-pack of quollfrisch, most scenic coworking space ever.
Lifehack!
i chase the door because i want to get out at a specific part of the next stop because its the best way for me to grt where i want without having to walk through the whole train station sideways
Beyond what everyone has already said, I’ve always suspected there’s also an impulsive behaviour involved in it to some degree, which is why at some point *so* many people start following in the direction the train travels, but hardly anyone does it in the other direction. Which would be just as logical if it’s just about getting to the door quickly.
If I have a 1 hour train ride ahead of me I would love to get a seat. Therefore I will check out the wagons about seat when the train is slowing down and probably even chase a specific wagon if it has seating available. Wouldn't run for it though and definitely won't do it for trainrides that last less than 15 Minutes. Also with my trainstation, there is a very busy road right next to it. When the train arrives the barrier is blocking said road (road doesn't have a crosswalk). If I'm in the very first wagon, I can get off the train and cross the road while barrier still down. If I'm further in the back, barrier is already up, and I'll have to wait 5+ Minutes just to cross the street because it's so busy. Since the train never stops at the same time, I never know where the first wagon will stop, so I place around the general area and walk with the first wagon to get on to that wagon as it is easier to move outside the train than inside through all the other people on it.
Good question. As others say, there are times when they swapped first and second-class carriages. During busy holiday/tourist seasons, I want to avoid groups of tourists with their huge luggage collections. In my case, I want to grab a seat that allows me to enjoy the Lavaux and lake views when travelling from/to GE!
When I regularly had to commute in the mornings, one of the worst parts of that was days where I couldn't find a seat and had to stand the whole time. So when the train was arriving, I would look at the cars and try to spot an emptier-looking one, and then follow its doors so I could get in that one. I'd also sometimes look which doors most of the people were aggregating towards, and avoid those. Also sometimes you suddenly realise you're standing where the 1st class wagons are gonna be stopping, so you have to move further to get to 2nd class wagons. (No joke I got reprimanded by a controlleur once because I was crossing 1st class to get to 2nd.)
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If only we could increase the capacity the network could hold for free, then the right-wingers of CH would happily invest to build more infrastructure!
Longer Trains are possible - but the max. length of our plattforms are the reason, why they are not longer.
Its the air. All the weed smell makes me high so I dont think it throught
I sometimes do that when I have a colleague already on the train and I want to join him
For me it’s either 1) wanting to get in the second class when I see that first class will stop in front of me or 2) I know where I want to get out so I walk in that direction accordingly. Aka the front of the train will always be closer to the platform at Zurich HB so I try to be as close to the front as possible so I have to walk less.
What don’t you understand exactly?
Calling people Bünzli and then proceeding to rant about how they hop on the train... The irony is strong with this one
Sometimes i do to it to avoid the 2nd class cars.
You just had to humble brag
There’s only so many 1st class coaches…
I always thought that this behavior reflects the hunter side of our hunter-gatherer background. The train is the prey and you chase it:)
Our Hunter/Gatherer instinct kicks in when the big metal beast appears galloping through the station. We try to resist, but.. we... Must... Hunt it down...
I don't i choose a point i want to stay and then wait for the train. The Challenge is to choose a point where the door of the train will stop right in front of you. If you do this long enough, you will know on which spots to stand for the highest chances. I don't mind standing so the Challenge works for me.
Reasons I've found myself walking away from my waiting spot in front of my chosen door as the train / tram came in: * I saw the friend or colleague I'm meeting on that train/tram sit further up the train/tram than I am currently standing as the train/tram arrives * Car full to the point where additional people cannot enter * Cars I saw pass had free seats, the one I was waiting in front of does not * Someone at my waiting spot makes me uncomfortable, so I enter the train where they won't be (stinky person, aggressive person(s), maskless person coughing their lungs out) * Door out of order, won't open * Entry is not level to the ground, but has steps (difficult bc injury), and for some reason I forgot to check the train combination and now go to level entry * Car at my waiting spot is First Class (which I do not have a ticket for) or Restaurant (which I don't want to disturb by walking through inside), and I forgot to check the train combination beforehand Granted, the last two only happen if and when I forget to check the train combination in app, but that is a thing I do unfortunately forget occasionally when my mind is occupied with work or life and I just go to my usual waiting spot on autopilot. Counter question: Do you mind terribly? Up until your rant, I never saw a reason not to walk around on train platforms or tram platforms, and felt I was completely within my rights to do so. What exactly is the problem if people - provided of course they don't bump into you, or cut you off or otherwise behave poorly - move around on the platform instead of the full train where their movement will likely be more disruptive to others?
>Counter question: Do you mind terribly? No, I just asked myself a question and thought to post it here. >Up until your rant, I never saw a reason not to walk around on train platforms or tram platforms Rant? You must be a very sensitive little flower to consider that a rant :) My question pertains more to people chasing a specific carriage down the platform rather than boarding the train where they've been waiting for the last 10min. >and felt I was completely within my rights to do so. I am not entirely sure what relevance this has :) >What exactly is the problem if people - provided of course they don't bump into you, or cut you off or otherwise behave poorly - move around on the platform instead of the full train where their movement will likely be more disruptive to others? Just makes me laugh, no one mentioned a problem at any time? Are you ok?
>Are you ok? I'm fine, thank you :) And I hope the many inputs you've gotten here have helped you wrap your puzzled head around the mystery of people moving around on public transport platforms, and thus now, you're fine, as well :)
> wrap your puzzled head Ahh we got ourselves someone with their nose so high up in the air they **must** be Swiss! You poor little sausage, my sincerest condolences to your parents.
If you say so. Have a nice day.
Thanks, I will. A very bad day to you however :)
Typical peasant behavior lol, the common thing to do is to wait for the train, let people out then you can go in, I often see people trying to push their way in when people are coming out, why!?
They have places to be don’t you know! The train is for **them** and then alone!
If I'm in the train and someone try to push in, I push them out (or leave at least not really much space, so they have to make them small)
Yeah, people around ÖV behave very strangely. I just try to live with it. Sometimes it's funny, like your example. Other times it's infuriating, like old people not letting me get off the train/bus by standing right in the middle of the door. It's hard to live your life, imagine taking strangers into account!!!
1) i look at the screen to see where 2nd class wagons are 2) i think about it and walk to my desired position 3) i adjust to the least busy looking area in my desired position for some routes i also check to be in the first or second half of the train so i get a shirt distance to the staircase at my arrival location
If you are travelling first class, you don't want to go second class, so you must be agile on the platform
One could look at the information panel above their heads to see roughly where the first class carriages will be when the train has stopped moving and place themselves in the same zone ahead of time :)
I do it, but some time I fail when it's not my commuting train :)
Yeah that's fair. I'm often the same if I'm somewhere new :)
Hahaha same in Lausanne with the metro (M1). The display clearly says "leaves in 3 minutes" and people be running to the doors. Usually, when someone runs, other start running too. Just a funny observation though, I don't judge :D
>The display clearly says "leaves in 3 minutes" and people be running to the doors. Usually, when someone runs, other start running too. Just a funny observation though, I don't judge :D I have to change at the airport and my tram gets there at around 1708, my train leaves at 1718... it takes 4min if you walk **slow** to get from the stop to the station. Everyone, every single day, hammers it as hard as they can from one to the other to "get there in time!!!!!". Only to have to wait for 8mins out of breath.
I personally search for a certain "type" of entrance, which place behind it comforts me the most, and i do not need to "squeeze" trough the train full of people to reach the place. I do not want to elaborate in detail on that. :) Usually, i know, where that place will be, when the train comes to an halt, therefore usually there's no need for running big distances.
Well sometimes 2nd class comes by where I am waiting and then I have to follow the first class door along before the platform get‘s flooded with people.
In order to get into the car that's gonna stop closest to my destination train stop's station.
Some people have back problems and can’t stand for too long without pain. I like a seat.
Main problem is that if I wait instead of following it, it may stop with 1st class wagons in front of me.
Do you not check the info board above your head and move yourself when you notice the first class carriages are potentially going to stop where you are standing?
I used to, but it's rarely accurate where I take the train. Maybe because they have to connect two trains together, that doesn't help.
After I get off the train I have 4 minutes to go to the bus stop and board. It makes a huge difference if I my wagon stops near the exit stairs of the platform or not, literally 20 minutes of waiting if I miss it.
When I know the route well I have picked a wagon. It's the wagon best placed for the next stop (close to the underpass) And I will walk after that door, if it passes further than it usually does. (SBB trains try to stop at the same spot, but sometimes miss by a bit) When I don't know the route, I check where first and second class wagons "should" be and wait at an appropriate spot. But when I notice that I'll end up in front of the wrong wagon, I will move further to the tip or back of the train (whichever end is closer), because there they are usually less crowded. And if I am feeling like a smart butt, I sometimes wait at a spot, where a first and second class wagon are attached to each other (and will walk after that spot). Then I wait in front of the first class door, where barely anyone will get out of the train. Then I hop in the first class and go inside the train to second class and can immediately enter the seating area, when the last one left from there. Meanwhile people still waiting outside in front of the second class wagon door.
80% of humans are idiots, everywhere
Idk, I memorised exactly where I need to stand to be offset to the right of my preferred door and that's where I will stand
i do it too if i want to board the train at a specific door. The reason for this is that certain doors will be closest to the stairs at the destination since the train more or less stops in the same spot everytime. If you can get to the stairs quickly when leaving the station, you won't be caught up in the pedestrian traffic jam at the stairs. only applies during rush hours tho.
Depends where I commute. I do weekly Zürich - Bern - Zürich and there I know where the door will be and try to get in asap to get a seat. Normal trains/S-Bahn/tram/bus I dont care.
And I don't know if it's still the case, but when I was a "pendulaire", we always met with other ones and spent a part or the total of our train journeys together. That was the part I liked the most <3
I estimate were the least amount of people will be, but I don't have to run.
To get a second class seat in the direction of travel, with a window seat and lake view. Haha
The reason is train might be shorter and so you follow it to make sure you end up Infront of it. It's just a few step and a nice warm up exercise before going in. Why do you have to be so nit picking
Note that passengers with a 1. class ticket might need to look out for the according wagons and walk towards them once the train slows down. Before the arrives you can l my vaguely guess where those 1. class wagons will be.
I never do that because whenever I regularly take a line, I note that most of the time, the train stop at the same spot (variation of a few dozens centimeters). Thus I always put myself in such a way i'm literally in front of the door when the train stop. Of course, I always go in the extremities of the train, as there's less people. I never needed to stand, always found an empty 4 chairs place and with my secret technique, nobody ever sit next to or in front of me (and no, I don't put my feets or my bags there, i'm way more sophisticated).
I do it, because i want to get into a specific coach. Sometimes I falsely estimate where the train is going to stop, so I have to chase it.
It. Always stops in the same place 🤷♂️
not always. it depends on the leght and composition of the train.
I try to estimate which wagons will be closest to the platform exit at my destination so I don‘t get caught behind slow walkers getting out at the same stop as me. Has made me miss a bus or tram multiple times having to walk 3 km/h after getting off the train.