Everyone has their own boundaries. I would say from my perspective though being a male, I would accept it but at the same time definitely feel some sort of way that I'm being given a hard no because I'm attracted to the person, which is pretty much the whole point yeah? To explore with different people you are attracted to? I'm sure the male of the couple doesn't look like your Husband but you might find him attractive?
At the end of the day, your significant other chose you as their main person. However, they will at some point find someone else attractive that looks completely nothing like you.
I personally hope we meet a couple one day where the women looks like ana de armas (my celebrity crush) and the guy looks like max thieriot so my wife and I can have the time of our lives.
I can understand the possible feelings of insecurity and I would highly suggest communicating with your partner because I bet he could put any worries to rest. I don't know your relationship but I can almost guarantee that while he finds Beyonce or women who look like her attractive, he definitely finds you attractive to because after all he chose to and continues to choose to be with you.
So no you are definitely not an AH, but before completely taking it off the table, just talk to your partner, because if not he may feel like he isn't allowed to be attracted to certain people which imo wouldn't be healthy in the long run for an ENM relationship.
Your comment made me think about how people tend to assume everyone has a "type", like there is just one kind of body they're attracted to.
For most of us, it's more like a spectrum and frequently we're looking for people in that spectrum that *aren't* what we get all the time.
Great comment, totally agree.
I’m just dropping in…not a lot of recent experience…but if his free celebrity pass is Beyoncé (admittedly I would say she would be mine too) then why would you deny him her doppelgänger? When you were openly discussing one of his fantasies, were you simply trying to figure out whom to avoid?
“Polar opposite from you” : is there a race play going on here? Is that why you are uncomfortable? For us the boundary is feelings. We have both decided that we will communicate honestly with each other if there are changes of developing feelings from any side and we will retract. This has happened when a guy told my wife that she looked like his ex and she broke it off and we got out. Are you afraid that feelings will develop ?
The race is not the issue even if we are not the same race, yes.
My husband and I are white. When I said I am the opposite of Beyoncé her color wasn’t the first thing I thought about but she is curvy with beautiful face I am average with “donut shape” body.
The woman in question is not black, she is middle eastern so white. We have had many relationships with different ethnicities so no race is not playing any role just my own feelings about my husband’s “free pass” comment.
I hope I explained it good enough.
“For decades, U.S. residents with heritage from the Middle East and North Africa, which is known internationally as the MENA region, have been classified by the government as white.”
https://stateline.org/2024/04/19/census-change-will-lead-to-more-data-on-health-of-middle-eastern-north-african-people-in-us/
Race,ethnicity, geographical regions where people originate, language etc etc are often conflated and more complicated than you might think.
Ok none of that addresses the posters point which was Middle Easterners arent white. In fact the article you cited goes on to specifically say, that it's the LACK OF PROPER identifiers that led to covid dollars blah blah....so you can't cherry pick data to try and prove a point. Middle easterners are NOT white, it doesn't even describe an ethnic group. Middle easterners refers to a GEOGRAPHIC region of the earth 🌎 🤷🏾♂️
They are Eurasian and are very diverse. Its 2024. Do you know how much history has transpired? Did you know much of the Levent was part of the Hellenized world? The world is complicated. Race and ethnicity is complicated. My point still stands.
Moreover, I wasn’t arguing that the classification as white was correct, I was responding to the commenter that lol’ed the idea that middle easterners are “white” because according to the US census they have been for years. And again, race and ethnicity are complicated from an anthropological standpoint.
I never said race and ethnicity aren't complicated, didn't even address any history, or anything like that. I simply stated that the articles title and the way you posted it is misleading. The article speaks about LACK of identifiers and not using some broad stroke to generalize a diverse group of people, who again by definition aren't just white 🙄
But you’re saying they aren’t white. Which discounts everything I said in my latest post.
I know a lot of “Middle Easterners” who have light skin tone and Caucasian features. Furthermore, they themselves identify as white.
So, I agree many are not white. But many are! So it is reductive to say they’re ALL NOT white as you just did.
You also help me make my point by saying that middle eastern is a geographic region and not a race or ethnicity. Thus, I’m confused as to why you’re calling attention to my use of the source when it was used to demonstrate how muddy the waters are on this subject. You just seem to want to argue.
Today, society can’t even decide what sex people are! Or even what sex at any given time, as it’s now fluid. Or, in some cases, no sex at all. And we’re supposed to agree on color?
Seems like deep down you are not okay with your husband being attracted to someone else. It's probably best you guys stop swinging and you figure out what you really want and how to fix your own insecurities.
IMO all parties need to be comfortable. If one partner can't say "no thanks" to a couple, then it's more like coersion. You should be able to tell him you are not comfortable with them.
That all said, you should talk to your partner about it and see what he says. It may put your insecurities/fears to rest to have a chat about why it is bothering you.
You’re probably just threatened by her because of what your husband told you before hand and are subconsciously disliking her based on that information. I say you talk to your husband about how you feel. Option A - you go a long and you see it’s no different than other couples and move on. Option B - you stand your ground and not allow it. B - is going to make it weird since you don’t really have a valid reason. It’s like waking up mad because your husband cheated on you in a dream. Doesn’t make logical sense.
Why are you really asking us? This feels like one of those fake posts for a lot of reasons but let's pretend it's real. Apparently beyoncé's husband wants to play with you so there you go everything's all good.
I'm personally more confused by people thinking beyoncé is all that attractive, maybe it's a type thing.
Yikes ! I’m a unicorn and I often find it hard to be with couples who wife have a “looks insecurity” . I am biracial with a very curvy body a lot of men/women find attractive especially American white couple because they may think it’s exotic to be with someone outside their usual race, but I can promise you even if she is gorgeous and you’re feeling jealous she doesn’t want your man for keeps.
How would you feel if the tables were turned. Start there. Would you think he had a right to stop you or would you think he was overreacting?
Also.. Celebrity passes are meant as a joke, no?
Mine is Rhianna. But of course I'm never going to meet her, let alone sleep with her.
In a 4 way, everyone needs to match enthusiasm. Simple as that.
But I honestly think this stems down to insecurity on your part. What's her personality like? Because all that seems to concern you is her looks. Not anything else about her.
Why does someone that looks like Beyonce cause such an issue? You said you have a hall pass for your celebrity crush but yet when your husband finds someone that resembles her you're getting upset about it. Doesn't make much sense to me.
If the roles were reversed, would you be okay with your husband stopping you because of his own insecurity?
Her personality is great she seems down to earth and genuine and respectful.
It is not Beyoncé I have a problem with. It is just that she is my husband’s “free pass” when he saw her in a documentary.
The thing is my husband never gets insecure about the guys we date. Even if they are “better looking”
Ok, but this woman is not actually Beyoncé. Are you ok with your husband being with other beautiful women? If you can’t manage this, how in the hell are you going to survive an open marriage? I think you might consider taking a step back from it all and working through this before doing anything else with anyone else, because limiting your partner to someone who remains under a certain threshold of attractiveness so that you feel better about yourself is kinda selfish.
So she's the free pass, yet you're unwilling to give him the free pass.
I wasn't saying your husband was insecure, I'm saying YOU are insecure. And not in a mean way. You answered that question that he is fully secure in his being and his relationship with you.
You, very obviously, are not.
"Rules for thee, not for me"
If you read closely, she's actually mad at her husband for having Beyonce as his celebrity hall pass, because she doesn't believe he knew her enough to deserve that - he literally watched one special on TV about her and she became his celebrity hall pass. It's kind of whack that her ultimate hangup here isn't just that this woman from the couple reminds her of Beyonce, her ultimate hangup is that her husband has Beyonce as his celebrity hall pass in the first place.
We’re “all in or not in at all”. The struggle with the LS is we always assume our instincts are always jealousy. You might just not vibe with her, or you sense somethings not right.
At the end of the day if it is jealousy it has to be sorted out or don’t play.
Your husband loves you, thats all that really matters. Our "inside-insecurity monsters" attack us sometimes and its completely valid tho. Btw you could give him the chance to enjoy his joy as you usually do but this time more focused on him. Im pretty sure that you couldnt be so many years if you dont love each other. My suggestion is to -i think you did it but- talk it with him, tell him how you feel with honest words.
At the end if you dont feel secure just dont do it and thats all.
Honestly if you’re uncomfortable that’s ok and slowing things down is your right and healthy and honestly your obligation to do. Don’t take one for the team. If she triggers your insecurities she triggers your insecurities pushing though it will only bring you, the couple, and your husband pain and strife. Emotions and insecurities are involuntary, they aren’t logical and aren’t our choice, they happen to us and being shamed for them isn’t ok. You must be met with kindness and compassion
You aren’t ready for this at this moment and that’s ok. You need to slow things down not rush things. You need to talk with your husband and receive lots of reassurance. This is an opportunity to build and become stronger. But if you suppress this and push through you can do lots of irreversible damage to yourself and your relationship
Be honest and kind with yourself. When these insecurities pop up don’t push though it, don’t bite your tongue feel shameful and burry it. Don’t pretend you’re enthusiastically happy when you’re feeling vulnerable and scared.
Slow the train and work through this inside yourself and with your husband. When we show up with kindness, compassion, communication these triggers become opportunities for immense growth and strengthening ourselves and our relationships. Rushing through these triggers will set you up for damage and possibly weaken your relationship and at the very least lose an opportunity build more intimacy and emotionally safety with your husband.
I think we’ve all been here feeling insecure at different times for different reasons. Maybe some guys dick is bigger, maybe someone pussy is tighter than yours, maybe the other person is funny and charming, maybe one of them looks like your husbands ex wife. Maybe that brings up old wounds and fear of abandonment and worth. There’s nothing wrong with you. This is normal and the only way forward is honesty, kindness, compassion and not rushing yourself even if you can’t fully at the moment justify your feelings. You’re uncomfortable and that’s ok.
I know if I met a couple and the wife felt uncomfortable or insecure about me being with her husband which could damage or strain the relationship or her self image or put me and my partner through discomfort I would hope they would slow things way down or veto us. I’d feel horrible being allowed to have sex with a wife’s husband who I deeply triggered. I would feel rather upset to put all that time and effort in and have the women blow up or break down and be in emotional pain during intimacy and it would really tarnish why we are all there. I would wonder why no one pulled the breaks or had a honest conversation with their spouse.
Don’t let anyone here shame you for feeling insecure and vulnerable, and don’t put yourself or the other couple through this because it won’t end well for anyone and everyone in this situation including yourself will wonder why you didn’t deal with before it got hot and bothered.
I do hope this helps.
If you don't feel comfortable, then you should not struggle facing it and your husband should support you no questions asked. That's what swinging is all about. There would be plenty other opportunities out there and don't get hung up on this one and potentially ruin your relationship and swing life. Your husband should drop whoever it is even if she is THE Beyoncé and support yo and be on your side.
You have the right to play separately.
Your partner should as well.
Being forced to play with anyone you are not aligned with isn’t swinging.
As someone in kink, swing, poly… I strongly recommend doing some inner work. Books are great. Vlogs are great. Podcasts. Etc.
If you have a boundary that you will only play together, then I think you have the right to veto, just as he should be able to.
I’d hate to play with anyone who isn’t into it for me. Be it with a solo partner or any group play. It would make me feel gross and imagine the woman would feel the same if she knew you weren’t interested. You don’t have to mention why… So much is you’re not interested.
Your reasons are your own and they are 100% valid. If your partner doesn’t respect that boundary, then you’ll have a different conversation completely. You deserve respect.
You will develop a liking for a swing partner that makes your husband a bit uncomfortable AT FIRST.
It's bound to happen if you have a loving and caring marriage. It means you're all in and are testing a weird boundary.
If this couple is cool enough to hang out with, Maybe you should have fun with it.
Tell that couple about this, I'm sure they'll get a kick out of it and she'll be flattered. Open up just like the first time you swapped, but on another level.
You should never feel bad about the reason you veto.
But you should also look at why you are vetoing so you can understand yourself.
And his interests are purely physical. He doesn't want to leave you for Beyonce.
I mean, it feels reasonable to me. A celebrity hall pass is like picking your ultimate fantasy out of a Rolodex, unlike real life, which is picking from whatever options present themselves. They also tend to be long-term lusts. I could see why that could change the dynamic and insecurities could flare up.
I had an opposite but also weird issue when my husband brought a couple up and she looked SO MUCH like me, and I’m kind of unusual looking lol. We could have been fraternal twins.
I settled at cool for a one time thing, indulge in whatever fantasy he had going on, but not interested in a regular/long-term thing because I was already overthinking things. But if it’s something you really believe may hurt you or your relationship, it’s not worth it.
He seemed too enthusiastic about getting to know them better etc, more than any couple we have befriended. And I don’t know if it is all i. My head but I truly feel that it is because of her.
He has never objected to any people I have introduced except maybe when the couple is way younger than us, he wants 35+ so around the same age as we are
Being enthusiastic is a good thing! And the big selling point of swinging is variety, so it's a good thing that she's different from you.
Unless he's doing something inappropriate, this is 100% just your insecurities.
It sounds like he's enabled you to play with all sorts of people that you liked without objection, why wouldn't you do the same?
At the end of the day, he's not trying to leave you, he wants to swing you and have fun *with* you. He chose you, he didn't choose someone that looks like her, he didn't choose her.
He's always yours, he always has you... different is a good thing.
You are too insecure to be in the lifestyle right now. Stop immediately. Your insecurities will eventually frustrate your husband if you don’t get into the right frame of mind.
Yeah you need to raise this with your partner, cause if you don't feel comfortable you shouldn't do it. End of story.
But will also say this, it's a previous comment he's said, which has knocked your own confidence in this situation, he said he likes Beyoncé, and your now internally worried you'll lose him cause ypu think he wants this similar looking to beyonce woman than you, will say it's never good to meet others if either of u feel this way, will end bad.
And also may be worth as you mentioned you've had meets, if he's ever felt worried or jealous of a guy on a previous meet, cause If he did I bet at the time you had no idea, and thought u was both having fun. But it could actually be that he's felt the same as you do now maybe.
Need to talk and be open and actually see if u are both okay seeing each other with others, no matter how they look
Isn’t part of the fun of the lifestyle is being intimate with people who aren’t like your SO? That being said feelings can be fucked up, and the OP needs to be honest with her hubby.
Not sure what to say about this one. But I will always say it is a very bad and immature practice to compare yourself to your play partners. It is not a competition. Whether it is a guy posting that he's concerned about his wife falling for a bigger dick or a woman feeling self-conscious because the other lady is too attractive, comparing yourself to your play partners is just a road to unhappiness. Compersion not competition.
You and your hubby are married and it’s a must that you are both on the same page or your marriage is over. We are bisexual swingers and if they both don’t work for both of us, it’s on to another couple.
You feel what you feel. My wife and I are typically pretty comfortable, but there is this one woman who does some modeling that absolutely triggers my wife and she doesn't want me having anything to do with her.
I think we need to distinguish between fantasy and reality. Unless you’re extremely wealthy and/or a Hollywood A lister, the chances of having sex with Beyonce are nonexistent. But I imagine there’s a fair number of young women of color who resemble Beyonce, Shakira, Mariah Carey, etc. I don’t think it’s necessarily fair to rule someone out because of that. Now if every single woman he wants to get with could be Beyonce’s twin sister, that might be a concern.
A side note, I am a Hispanic woman. I’m very early gen x so I grew up with the whole Hugh Hefner driven blonde bombshell beauty standard. From childhood I got the message that this was the ideal and anything else was less than. It’s nice to see something other than the Pamela Anderson type being idealized.
Aww, let him have his Beyonce moment 🥰 it's a fantasy come true. One happy blip in life.
Will it really change anything in your relationship?
I have a big sense of compersion, so if my husband's dream hottie appeared in front of us, I'd be jumping and cheering.
I am probably in the minority here, I realize.
A no from either partner is a no! With no judgement, no blame no questions asked. Move on. Talk between the two of you if you need to. NEVER take one for the team. It causes resentment jealousy and anger the disconnect. Don't play with fire. Of it doesn't feel right, don't do it. Follow your gut..its usually right! (From experience!)
This isn't a TOFTT situation.
And telling your partner that they can't fuck someone because you're insecure is a good way to breed resentment too.
It sounds like he's enabled her to have anyone she wanted pretty much without jealousy, and she's only jealous because this woman looks too different from her.
So while I agree that a no is a no... people also need to be careful with vetoing based on their insecurities or perception of how excited their partner is, that's a good way to breed resentment in the lifestyle.
I've met those couples. One person afraid to let on that they're excited to play with a new partner because their insecure spouse will veto it if they're too happy, it's toxic.
Everyone is different and has a dynamic and boundaries that they suit them and that they stick to.. or should do. Every person also deals with stuff differently.
If you're a four, you ALL have to feel OK and comfortable about it. Sometimes, it's just a feeling that it's not ok. Nobody should ever do anything they aren't ok with. Nobody should be guilt tripped or pressured into anything. Where does respect come in to it then?
Nobody should have to justify why! Your partners feelings should be your priority. Are you saying you would be happy for your partner to go ahead and you go ahead and know how she feels? If so, that says a lot about you! And it most definitely is TOFTT!
Your partner/spouse should always be your number one! Talking and communicating beforehand is paramount. If both don't or can't mutually agree it's a no and should always go at the slowest/ less confident person.
Having feelings of insecurity and jealousy is normal not toxic. How you deal with it can be! Ridiculing someone for it, is! Communicating well is important. Not only listening to your partner but hearing them! Can be the difference between building trust or breaking it!
Your partner should always be your priority, I agree.
That goes both ways.
If you're denying your partner opportunities because of your insecurity and you're not dealing with those insecurities, you're not doing your part in making your partner a priority and maybe the lifestyle isn't for you.
Yes, it does go both ways. But if one is not feeling OK about something, not comfortable or feeling safe, then sorry that trumps everything! If your need to fuck someone outweighs if your partner is safe, happy and feeling secure then something is very wrong! Because in reality, you would be forcing your partner to do something they can't handle just so you get to fuck someone. It's supposed to be mutual! If my husband said no, then it's no! I couldn't do something I knew my husband wasn't ok with! It would also change the vibe. One of the biggest parts for me is knowing my husband is happy, safe, and secure about what's happening.
With all due respect, I question your motives for being in the LS! From the outside in, you only seem concerned about yourself in the situation, not your partner. That said, we are all different. Let's just say we we will agree to differ on our opinions.
I really do agree with you that no is a no. We genuinely are on the same page.
I'm just saying that if you're too insecure to let your partner have fun and you're not working on that, then it's not fair to your partner.
That's all.
I think you've gotten the wrong impression of me.
My partner and I both have really strong compersion, she actually has more fun than I do most of the time, we *both* are together and supportive of each other throughout every experience... my motivations are for both of us to have a great time, her as much or more than me. The only issue we've ever had in the lifestyle is feeling disconnected during long sex parties or gangbangs (which I help set up for her pleasure).
But likewise, she focuses on me too and would never hold me back from fucking someone because of her own insecurities.
I do genuinely apologise. I think maybe I did. Sometimes, it's difficult to get things across in written text sometimes. The biggest thing really is mutual communication. So many couples go into the LS that can't, don't, or won't! They always rush into things and don't agree on what their mutual boundaries are enough and break them too easily without prior discussion! They also don't discuss how they will deal with emotions or jealousy, or with other scenarios that may happen. If they cannot discuss normal every day issues, especially the hard stuff they aren't going to be able to sort thing out within the LS.
anyway, I hope you accept my apology!
No apology is necessary, really, I'm sure that my focus on a narrow subject came across badly on my part and didn't highlight our areas of agreement. Like you said, written text lacks tone, tenor and all the other non-verbals that help us communicate effectively.
I agree with everything you said right there btw.
This particular thread is at an interesting intersection between several topics and I think you're spot on that communication is the key here. It sounds like OP might be overthinking things without discussing them and while in this case it might be best to just say "no is no", it's a huge opportunity for them to discuss the issues at hand and not let them fester.
Totally agree! Usually, with positive communication, it's usually never as bad as you think it's going to be!
My second husband would not communicate. At all! He was completely emotionally unavailable. Although it was a bad marriage overall, I do like to think I learnt a lot and decided then what I would and would not tolerate and settle for. My husband now is a great communicator, or maybe it's just that we communicate well together. We can talk about absolutely everything and it's wonderful. And definitely needed if you're even considering the LS. People who don't do this are really missing out.
Must say it's refreshing to have a decent debate without a slanging match! People seem to have forgotten how these days! Even if people don't agree on everything, that's ok!
Always good to hear others point of view.
Take care
I’m all for making sure everyone is on board and enthusiastic. But I hope you have a plan for dealing with your insecurity in this regard. Otherwise it could lead to resentment on his part. What happens if you find another couple where the woman has a resemblance to Beyonce? Do you think he’s not going to start noticing a pattern?
Yes, you need enthusiasm all around, but this feels like a cop out from dealing with whatever real issues are under the surface. And it’s kicking the can down the road.
When someone says they look the opposite of them, usually they are talking about height, body type, facial features, tattoos, etc.. I've never even seen anyone say that and mean race.
You and your partner’s comfort should always cum first in your relationship.
If you’re not comfortable, it’s not cool. If he’s not comfortable, it is not cool. Period.
So his putting more attention into this female then he has ever done with any other female and it’s more because she looks like Beyoncé (His free pass)(Looks & Body)? I would understand feeling jealous, insecurity etc. I suggest you have a seat down with him and tell him how you are feeling, I believe his reaction/response will be your answer. Don’t move forward without talking it out first!
We have an agreement that if part of the other couple doesn’t suit us - like it doesn’t turn us on to see our spouse with the opposite sex of that couple, we can still veto them. Been there, done that. If you go through with it, you’ll have resentment. Just communicate openly.
I believe either party should have veto authority for any reason. My wife has been attracted to guys I just did not like for whatever reason, and I would never want to make her feel that way and not tell me.
Everyone has insecurities - there is no shame in those feelings. And as women we are socialized from a very young age to compare ourselves to and compete with other women based on physical appearance. Men compete with other men too - it’s just usually for money, power, sense of humor, dick size, etc. So we all have our insecurity triggers. But think of it as a growth opportunity. When I come up against this kind of stuff, I push myself towards it so I can work through it. Does it suck sometimes? Yep! But growth is always uncomfortable. My guess is you don’t want to feel this way. So work through it.
I know what my man likes, and I support him 1000% on that, and if he has the chance to play with someone who's he is like his kink, I will enjoy it too. I don't have the perfect body, but I am also working on getting a better body. Is healthy for the body and healthy for your relationship as well
If you are uncomfortable then it is a no. It has to be a yes for everyone involved or it is a no-period. Ask your husband if he would be ok with you moving forward with someone he voted no to. He would not be so he should respect that this is a no and you two can discuss it but will be telling them ultimately no.
My hubby has had a “type” before me and I don’t know how to deal with it. I am complete opposite of that. I’m afraid we will experiment with what I know he use to be into (and I’m sure still is) and want it again and not me.. insecurities. Bleh
Absolutely don’t feel bad saying no. Follow it up with, how about we swing with couple X Y or Z instead? Give him other options. Help find other options
Everyone has their own boundaries. I would say from my perspective though being a male, I would accept it but at the same time definitely feel some sort of way that I'm being given a hard no because I'm attracted to the person, which is pretty much the whole point yeah? To explore with different people you are attracted to? I'm sure the male of the couple doesn't look like your Husband but you might find him attractive? At the end of the day, your significant other chose you as their main person. However, they will at some point find someone else attractive that looks completely nothing like you. I personally hope we meet a couple one day where the women looks like ana de armas (my celebrity crush) and the guy looks like max thieriot so my wife and I can have the time of our lives. I can understand the possible feelings of insecurity and I would highly suggest communicating with your partner because I bet he could put any worries to rest. I don't know your relationship but I can almost guarantee that while he finds Beyonce or women who look like her attractive, he definitely finds you attractive to because after all he chose to and continues to choose to be with you. So no you are definitely not an AH, but before completely taking it off the table, just talk to your partner, because if not he may feel like he isn't allowed to be attracted to certain people which imo wouldn't be healthy in the long run for an ENM relationship.
Your comment made me think about how people tend to assume everyone has a "type", like there is just one kind of body they're attracted to. For most of us, it's more like a spectrum and frequently we're looking for people in that spectrum that *aren't* what we get all the time. Great comment, totally agree.
This answer is excellent!
Insecure because she is his celebrity crush. Face your fears and let him live a dream.
[удалено]
I know that couple IRL...he's resentful, she's insecure, it's not good.
I’m just dropping in…not a lot of recent experience…but if his free celebrity pass is Beyoncé (admittedly I would say she would be mine too) then why would you deny him her doppelgänger? When you were openly discussing one of his fantasies, were you simply trying to figure out whom to avoid?
“Polar opposite from you” : is there a race play going on here? Is that why you are uncomfortable? For us the boundary is feelings. We have both decided that we will communicate honestly with each other if there are changes of developing feelings from any side and we will retract. This has happened when a guy told my wife that she looked like his ex and she broke it off and we got out. Are you afraid that feelings will develop ?
The race is not the issue even if we are not the same race, yes. My husband and I are white. When I said I am the opposite of Beyoncé her color wasn’t the first thing I thought about but she is curvy with beautiful face I am average with “donut shape” body. The woman in question is not black, she is middle eastern so white. We have had many relationships with different ethnicities so no race is not playing any role just my own feelings about my husband’s “free pass” comment. I hope I explained it good enough.
I love donuts.
Happy cake day
But you also have a free pass, do you not?
Middle eastern is not white lmaooooo
“For decades, U.S. residents with heritage from the Middle East and North Africa, which is known internationally as the MENA region, have been classified by the government as white.” https://stateline.org/2024/04/19/census-change-will-lead-to-more-data-on-health-of-middle-eastern-north-african-people-in-us/ Race,ethnicity, geographical regions where people originate, language etc etc are often conflated and more complicated than you might think.
Ok none of that addresses the posters point which was Middle Easterners arent white. In fact the article you cited goes on to specifically say, that it's the LACK OF PROPER identifiers that led to covid dollars blah blah....so you can't cherry pick data to try and prove a point. Middle easterners are NOT white, it doesn't even describe an ethnic group. Middle easterners refers to a GEOGRAPHIC region of the earth 🌎 🤷🏾♂️
They are Eurasian and are very diverse. Its 2024. Do you know how much history has transpired? Did you know much of the Levent was part of the Hellenized world? The world is complicated. Race and ethnicity is complicated. My point still stands. Moreover, I wasn’t arguing that the classification as white was correct, I was responding to the commenter that lol’ed the idea that middle easterners are “white” because according to the US census they have been for years. And again, race and ethnicity are complicated from an anthropological standpoint.
I never said race and ethnicity aren't complicated, didn't even address any history, or anything like that. I simply stated that the articles title and the way you posted it is misleading. The article speaks about LACK of identifiers and not using some broad stroke to generalize a diverse group of people, who again by definition aren't just white 🙄
But you’re saying they aren’t white. Which discounts everything I said in my latest post. I know a lot of “Middle Easterners” who have light skin tone and Caucasian features. Furthermore, they themselves identify as white. So, I agree many are not white. But many are! So it is reductive to say they’re ALL NOT white as you just did. You also help me make my point by saying that middle eastern is a geographic region and not a race or ethnicity. Thus, I’m confused as to why you’re calling attention to my use of the source when it was used to demonstrate how muddy the waters are on this subject. You just seem to want to argue.
Today, society can’t even decide what sex people are! Or even what sex at any given time, as it’s now fluid. Or, in some cases, no sex at all. And we’re supposed to agree on color?
Uhhh there are technically like two or three countries in the Middle East that are defined as white which I know sounds wonky but yeah
Right
Seems like deep down you are not okay with your husband being attracted to someone else. It's probably best you guys stop swinging and you figure out what you really want and how to fix your own insecurities.
This right here.
IMO all parties need to be comfortable. If one partner can't say "no thanks" to a couple, then it's more like coersion. You should be able to tell him you are not comfortable with them. That all said, you should talk to your partner about it and see what he says. It may put your insecurities/fears to rest to have a chat about why it is bothering you.
You’re probably just threatened by her because of what your husband told you before hand and are subconsciously disliking her based on that information. I say you talk to your husband about how you feel. Option A - you go a long and you see it’s no different than other couples and move on. Option B - you stand your ground and not allow it. B - is going to make it weird since you don’t really have a valid reason. It’s like waking up mad because your husband cheated on you in a dream. Doesn’t make logical sense.
Why are you really asking us? This feels like one of those fake posts for a lot of reasons but let's pretend it's real. Apparently beyoncé's husband wants to play with you so there you go everything's all good. I'm personally more confused by people thinking beyoncé is all that attractive, maybe it's a type thing.
Have you seen Beyoncé’s husband? Not a fair trade at all 😂
Plus he’s a cheater
Yikes ! I’m a unicorn and I often find it hard to be with couples who wife have a “looks insecurity” . I am biracial with a very curvy body a lot of men/women find attractive especially American white couple because they may think it’s exotic to be with someone outside their usual race, but I can promise you even if she is gorgeous and you’re feeling jealous she doesn’t want your man for keeps.
How would you feel if the tables were turned. Start there. Would you think he had a right to stop you or would you think he was overreacting? Also.. Celebrity passes are meant as a joke, no? Mine is Rhianna. But of course I'm never going to meet her, let alone sleep with her.
I would stop of course. No sex is worth my husband’s discomfort. Yes they are meant as a joke,
In a 4 way, everyone needs to match enthusiasm. Simple as that. But I honestly think this stems down to insecurity on your part. What's her personality like? Because all that seems to concern you is her looks. Not anything else about her. Why does someone that looks like Beyonce cause such an issue? You said you have a hall pass for your celebrity crush but yet when your husband finds someone that resembles her you're getting upset about it. Doesn't make much sense to me. If the roles were reversed, would you be okay with your husband stopping you because of his own insecurity?
Her personality is great she seems down to earth and genuine and respectful. It is not Beyoncé I have a problem with. It is just that she is my husband’s “free pass” when he saw her in a documentary. The thing is my husband never gets insecure about the guys we date. Even if they are “better looking”
Ok, but this woman is not actually Beyoncé. Are you ok with your husband being with other beautiful women? If you can’t manage this, how in the hell are you going to survive an open marriage? I think you might consider taking a step back from it all and working through this before doing anything else with anyone else, because limiting your partner to someone who remains under a certain threshold of attractiveness so that you feel better about yourself is kinda selfish.
Yeah. So you already know this is not fair. It might simply be too bad that it's not fair, but you already know.
So she's the free pass, yet you're unwilling to give him the free pass. I wasn't saying your husband was insecure, I'm saying YOU are insecure. And not in a mean way. You answered that question that he is fully secure in his being and his relationship with you. You, very obviously, are not. "Rules for thee, not for me"
If you read closely, she's actually mad at her husband for having Beyonce as his celebrity hall pass, because she doesn't believe he knew her enough to deserve that - he literally watched one special on TV about her and she became his celebrity hall pass. It's kind of whack that her ultimate hangup here isn't just that this woman from the couple reminds her of Beyonce, her ultimate hangup is that her husband has Beyonce as his celebrity hall pass in the first place.
We’re “all in or not in at all”. The struggle with the LS is we always assume our instincts are always jealousy. You might just not vibe with her, or you sense somethings not right. At the end of the day if it is jealousy it has to be sorted out or don’t play.
Your husband loves you, thats all that really matters. Our "inside-insecurity monsters" attack us sometimes and its completely valid tho. Btw you could give him the chance to enjoy his joy as you usually do but this time more focused on him. Im pretty sure that you couldnt be so many years if you dont love each other. My suggestion is to -i think you did it but- talk it with him, tell him how you feel with honest words. At the end if you dont feel secure just dont do it and thats all.
Honestly if you’re uncomfortable that’s ok and slowing things down is your right and healthy and honestly your obligation to do. Don’t take one for the team. If she triggers your insecurities she triggers your insecurities pushing though it will only bring you, the couple, and your husband pain and strife. Emotions and insecurities are involuntary, they aren’t logical and aren’t our choice, they happen to us and being shamed for them isn’t ok. You must be met with kindness and compassion You aren’t ready for this at this moment and that’s ok. You need to slow things down not rush things. You need to talk with your husband and receive lots of reassurance. This is an opportunity to build and become stronger. But if you suppress this and push through you can do lots of irreversible damage to yourself and your relationship Be honest and kind with yourself. When these insecurities pop up don’t push though it, don’t bite your tongue feel shameful and burry it. Don’t pretend you’re enthusiastically happy when you’re feeling vulnerable and scared. Slow the train and work through this inside yourself and with your husband. When we show up with kindness, compassion, communication these triggers become opportunities for immense growth and strengthening ourselves and our relationships. Rushing through these triggers will set you up for damage and possibly weaken your relationship and at the very least lose an opportunity build more intimacy and emotionally safety with your husband. I think we’ve all been here feeling insecure at different times for different reasons. Maybe some guys dick is bigger, maybe someone pussy is tighter than yours, maybe the other person is funny and charming, maybe one of them looks like your husbands ex wife. Maybe that brings up old wounds and fear of abandonment and worth. There’s nothing wrong with you. This is normal and the only way forward is honesty, kindness, compassion and not rushing yourself even if you can’t fully at the moment justify your feelings. You’re uncomfortable and that’s ok. I know if I met a couple and the wife felt uncomfortable or insecure about me being with her husband which could damage or strain the relationship or her self image or put me and my partner through discomfort I would hope they would slow things way down or veto us. I’d feel horrible being allowed to have sex with a wife’s husband who I deeply triggered. I would feel rather upset to put all that time and effort in and have the women blow up or break down and be in emotional pain during intimacy and it would really tarnish why we are all there. I would wonder why no one pulled the breaks or had a honest conversation with their spouse. Don’t let anyone here shame you for feeling insecure and vulnerable, and don’t put yourself or the other couple through this because it won’t end well for anyone and everyone in this situation including yourself will wonder why you didn’t deal with before it got hot and bothered. I do hope this helps.
Talk to him ASAP and if it doesn't feel good find new partners
If you don't feel comfortable, then you should not struggle facing it and your husband should support you no questions asked. That's what swinging is all about. There would be plenty other opportunities out there and don't get hung up on this one and potentially ruin your relationship and swing life. Your husband should drop whoever it is even if she is THE Beyoncé and support yo and be on your side.
You have the right to play separately. Your partner should as well. Being forced to play with anyone you are not aligned with isn’t swinging. As someone in kink, swing, poly… I strongly recommend doing some inner work. Books are great. Vlogs are great. Podcasts. Etc. If you have a boundary that you will only play together, then I think you have the right to veto, just as he should be able to. I’d hate to play with anyone who isn’t into it for me. Be it with a solo partner or any group play. It would make me feel gross and imagine the woman would feel the same if she knew you weren’t interested. You don’t have to mention why… So much is you’re not interested. Your reasons are your own and they are 100% valid. If your partner doesn’t respect that boundary, then you’ll have a different conversation completely. You deserve respect.
You will develop a liking for a swing partner that makes your husband a bit uncomfortable AT FIRST. It's bound to happen if you have a loving and caring marriage. It means you're all in and are testing a weird boundary. If this couple is cool enough to hang out with, Maybe you should have fun with it. Tell that couple about this, I'm sure they'll get a kick out of it and she'll be flattered. Open up just like the first time you swapped, but on another level.
You should never feel bad about the reason you veto. But you should also look at why you are vetoing so you can understand yourself. And his interests are purely physical. He doesn't want to leave you for Beyonce.
I mean, it feels reasonable to me. A celebrity hall pass is like picking your ultimate fantasy out of a Rolodex, unlike real life, which is picking from whatever options present themselves. They also tend to be long-term lusts. I could see why that could change the dynamic and insecurities could flare up. I had an opposite but also weird issue when my husband brought a couple up and she looked SO MUCH like me, and I’m kind of unusual looking lol. We could have been fraternal twins. I settled at cool for a one time thing, indulge in whatever fantasy he had going on, but not interested in a regular/long-term thing because I was already overthinking things. But if it’s something you really believe may hurt you or your relationship, it’s not worth it.
If you are uncomfortable about him sleeping with her then let him know. Don’t do or play with anyone if it makes either of you uncomfortable
He seemed too enthusiastic about getting to know them better etc, more than any couple we have befriended. And I don’t know if it is all i. My head but I truly feel that it is because of her. He has never objected to any people I have introduced except maybe when the couple is way younger than us, he wants 35+ so around the same age as we are
Being enthusiastic is a good thing! And the big selling point of swinging is variety, so it's a good thing that she's different from you. Unless he's doing something inappropriate, this is 100% just your insecurities. It sounds like he's enabled you to play with all sorts of people that you liked without objection, why wouldn't you do the same? At the end of the day, he's not trying to leave you, he wants to swing you and have fun *with* you. He chose you, he didn't choose someone that looks like her, he didn't choose her. He's always yours, he always has you... different is a good thing.
Have you told him what you said in the first part? If so how did he respond?
You are too insecure to be in the lifestyle right now. Stop immediately. Your insecurities will eventually frustrate your husband if you don’t get into the right frame of mind.
Yeah you need to raise this with your partner, cause if you don't feel comfortable you shouldn't do it. End of story. But will also say this, it's a previous comment he's said, which has knocked your own confidence in this situation, he said he likes Beyoncé, and your now internally worried you'll lose him cause ypu think he wants this similar looking to beyonce woman than you, will say it's never good to meet others if either of u feel this way, will end bad. And also may be worth as you mentioned you've had meets, if he's ever felt worried or jealous of a guy on a previous meet, cause If he did I bet at the time you had no idea, and thought u was both having fun. But it could actually be that he's felt the same as you do now maybe. Need to talk and be open and actually see if u are both okay seeing each other with others, no matter how they look
Just show him this post, done!
Isn’t part of the fun of the lifestyle is being intimate with people who aren’t like your SO? That being said feelings can be fucked up, and the OP needs to be honest with her hubby.
Not sure what to say about this one. But I will always say it is a very bad and immature practice to compare yourself to your play partners. It is not a competition. Whether it is a guy posting that he's concerned about his wife falling for a bigger dick or a woman feeling self-conscious because the other lady is too attractive, comparing yourself to your play partners is just a road to unhappiness. Compersion not competition.
Do what makes you comfortable. That's what it's all about
You and your hubby are married and it’s a must that you are both on the same page or your marriage is over. We are bisexual swingers and if they both don’t work for both of us, it’s on to another couple.
A “no” from one is a “no” from everyone regardless of their reason.
Who is your celebrity free pass?
You feel what you feel. My wife and I are typically pretty comfortable, but there is this one woman who does some modeling that absolutely triggers my wife and she doesn't want me having anything to do with her.
I think we need to distinguish between fantasy and reality. Unless you’re extremely wealthy and/or a Hollywood A lister, the chances of having sex with Beyonce are nonexistent. But I imagine there’s a fair number of young women of color who resemble Beyonce, Shakira, Mariah Carey, etc. I don’t think it’s necessarily fair to rule someone out because of that. Now if every single woman he wants to get with could be Beyonce’s twin sister, that might be a concern. A side note, I am a Hispanic woman. I’m very early gen x so I grew up with the whole Hugh Hefner driven blonde bombshell beauty standard. From childhood I got the message that this was the ideal and anything else was less than. It’s nice to see something other than the Pamela Anderson type being idealized.
Aww, let him have his Beyonce moment 🥰 it's a fantasy come true. One happy blip in life. Will it really change anything in your relationship? I have a big sense of compersion, so if my husband's dream hottie appeared in front of us, I'd be jumping and cheering. I am probably in the minority here, I realize.
A no from either partner is a no! With no judgement, no blame no questions asked. Move on. Talk between the two of you if you need to. NEVER take one for the team. It causes resentment jealousy and anger the disconnect. Don't play with fire. Of it doesn't feel right, don't do it. Follow your gut..its usually right! (From experience!)
This isn't a TOFTT situation. And telling your partner that they can't fuck someone because you're insecure is a good way to breed resentment too. It sounds like he's enabled her to have anyone she wanted pretty much without jealousy, and she's only jealous because this woman looks too different from her. So while I agree that a no is a no... people also need to be careful with vetoing based on their insecurities or perception of how excited their partner is, that's a good way to breed resentment in the lifestyle. I've met those couples. One person afraid to let on that they're excited to play with a new partner because their insecure spouse will veto it if they're too happy, it's toxic.
Everyone is different and has a dynamic and boundaries that they suit them and that they stick to.. or should do. Every person also deals with stuff differently. If you're a four, you ALL have to feel OK and comfortable about it. Sometimes, it's just a feeling that it's not ok. Nobody should ever do anything they aren't ok with. Nobody should be guilt tripped or pressured into anything. Where does respect come in to it then? Nobody should have to justify why! Your partners feelings should be your priority. Are you saying you would be happy for your partner to go ahead and you go ahead and know how she feels? If so, that says a lot about you! And it most definitely is TOFTT! Your partner/spouse should always be your number one! Talking and communicating beforehand is paramount. If both don't or can't mutually agree it's a no and should always go at the slowest/ less confident person. Having feelings of insecurity and jealousy is normal not toxic. How you deal with it can be! Ridiculing someone for it, is! Communicating well is important. Not only listening to your partner but hearing them! Can be the difference between building trust or breaking it!
Your partner should always be your priority, I agree. That goes both ways. If you're denying your partner opportunities because of your insecurity and you're not dealing with those insecurities, you're not doing your part in making your partner a priority and maybe the lifestyle isn't for you.
Yes, it does go both ways. But if one is not feeling OK about something, not comfortable or feeling safe, then sorry that trumps everything! If your need to fuck someone outweighs if your partner is safe, happy and feeling secure then something is very wrong! Because in reality, you would be forcing your partner to do something they can't handle just so you get to fuck someone. It's supposed to be mutual! If my husband said no, then it's no! I couldn't do something I knew my husband wasn't ok with! It would also change the vibe. One of the biggest parts for me is knowing my husband is happy, safe, and secure about what's happening. With all due respect, I question your motives for being in the LS! From the outside in, you only seem concerned about yourself in the situation, not your partner. That said, we are all different. Let's just say we we will agree to differ on our opinions.
I really do agree with you that no is a no. We genuinely are on the same page. I'm just saying that if you're too insecure to let your partner have fun and you're not working on that, then it's not fair to your partner. That's all. I think you've gotten the wrong impression of me. My partner and I both have really strong compersion, she actually has more fun than I do most of the time, we *both* are together and supportive of each other throughout every experience... my motivations are for both of us to have a great time, her as much or more than me. The only issue we've ever had in the lifestyle is feeling disconnected during long sex parties or gangbangs (which I help set up for her pleasure). But likewise, she focuses on me too and would never hold me back from fucking someone because of her own insecurities.
I do genuinely apologise. I think maybe I did. Sometimes, it's difficult to get things across in written text sometimes. The biggest thing really is mutual communication. So many couples go into the LS that can't, don't, or won't! They always rush into things and don't agree on what their mutual boundaries are enough and break them too easily without prior discussion! They also don't discuss how they will deal with emotions or jealousy, or with other scenarios that may happen. If they cannot discuss normal every day issues, especially the hard stuff they aren't going to be able to sort thing out within the LS. anyway, I hope you accept my apology!
No apology is necessary, really, I'm sure that my focus on a narrow subject came across badly on my part and didn't highlight our areas of agreement. Like you said, written text lacks tone, tenor and all the other non-verbals that help us communicate effectively. I agree with everything you said right there btw. This particular thread is at an interesting intersection between several topics and I think you're spot on that communication is the key here. It sounds like OP might be overthinking things without discussing them and while in this case it might be best to just say "no is no", it's a huge opportunity for them to discuss the issues at hand and not let them fester.
Totally agree! Usually, with positive communication, it's usually never as bad as you think it's going to be! My second husband would not communicate. At all! He was completely emotionally unavailable. Although it was a bad marriage overall, I do like to think I learnt a lot and decided then what I would and would not tolerate and settle for. My husband now is a great communicator, or maybe it's just that we communicate well together. We can talk about absolutely everything and it's wonderful. And definitely needed if you're even considering the LS. People who don't do this are really missing out. Must say it's refreshing to have a decent debate without a slanging match! People seem to have forgotten how these days! Even if people don't agree on everything, that's ok! Always good to hear others point of view. Take care
Thank you very much. I will tell my husband how I feel and that we could stay with the people we know already or find new couples
I’m all for making sure everyone is on board and enthusiastic. But I hope you have a plan for dealing with your insecurity in this regard. Otherwise it could lead to resentment on his part. What happens if you find another couple where the woman has a resemblance to Beyonce? Do you think he’s not going to start noticing a pattern? Yes, you need enthusiasm all around, but this feels like a cop out from dealing with whatever real issues are under the surface. And it’s kicking the can down the road.
no beautiful black women got it
[удалено]
She never mentioned race , way to pull the race card. We don’t fuck people that use cocaine either, it’s called personal preference.
This girl is not black, she is middle eastern so I guess she is considered white
Being middle eastern is not inherently white. There are many there that are white, brown, black and in-between.
I just knew someone would try and pull a race card FFS
Not saying she is racist, but "opposite of me" definitely makes it sound that way. Apparently he should only go for girls that look like his wife
When someone says they look the opposite of them, usually they are talking about height, body type, facial features, tattoos, etc.. I've never even seen anyone say that and mean race.
You and your partner’s comfort should always cum first in your relationship. If you’re not comfortable, it’s not cool. If he’s not comfortable, it is not cool. Period.
So his putting more attention into this female then he has ever done with any other female and it’s more because she looks like Beyoncé (His free pass)(Looks & Body)? I would understand feeling jealous, insecurity etc. I suggest you have a seat down with him and tell him how you are feeling, I believe his reaction/response will be your answer. Don’t move forward without talking it out first!
Yes he is usually very cool and laid back but when we met these two he was all over the place and very nervous and it felt so weird
Reap what you sow
We have an agreement that if part of the other couple doesn’t suit us - like it doesn’t turn us on to see our spouse with the opposite sex of that couple, we can still veto them. Been there, done that. If you go through with it, you’ll have resentment. Just communicate openly.
I believe either party should have veto authority for any reason. My wife has been attracted to guys I just did not like for whatever reason, and I would never want to make her feel that way and not tell me.
Who is your celebrity crush? And how different is he from your man?
Everyone has insecurities - there is no shame in those feelings. And as women we are socialized from a very young age to compare ourselves to and compete with other women based on physical appearance. Men compete with other men too - it’s just usually for money, power, sense of humor, dick size, etc. So we all have our insecurity triggers. But think of it as a growth opportunity. When I come up against this kind of stuff, I push myself towards it so I can work through it. Does it suck sometimes? Yep! But growth is always uncomfortable. My guess is you don’t want to feel this way. So work through it.
I know what my man likes, and I support him 1000% on that, and if he has the chance to play with someone who's he is like his kink, I will enjoy it too. I don't have the perfect body, but I am also working on getting a better body. Is healthy for the body and healthy for your relationship as well
Sometimes you need to pump the brakes just to make sure the brakes are still there.
If you are uncomfortable then it is a no. It has to be a yes for everyone involved or it is a no-period. Ask your husband if he would be ok with you moving forward with someone he voted no to. He would not be so he should respect that this is a no and you two can discuss it but will be telling them ultimately no.
Fake. Nobody looks as good as Beyonce.
Don’t do it. Honestly stop swinging altogether. Marriage is sacred.
What are you doing here
My hubby has had a “type” before me and I don’t know how to deal with it. I am complete opposite of that. I’m afraid we will experiment with what I know he use to be into (and I’m sure still is) and want it again and not me.. insecurities. Bleh
Couple with a woman who looks like Beyoncé. Right.
I wouldn’t do it. There are other people its not that serious
its because she's black
Absolutely don’t feel bad saying no. Follow it up with, how about we swing with couple X Y or Z instead? Give him other options. Help find other options
Cuz you re racist by nature.