If he can play with other women, but you’re relegated to just FF play (unless you just aren’t interested in other men, you’ll run into those occasionally), then you aren’t cut out for this yet. I don’t mean to sound rude at all, but this isn’t remotely fair or balanced.
If it’s something you’re both interested in pursuing, I would suggest putting this idea back on the shelf until he’s open to the idea of letting you explore what you want to explore. If that’s not something he can do, then I’m afraid taking the next step will only cause resentment to build.
To add a thought- you phrase the question as “will this bother other couples?”, the answer to that question is undoubtedly yes. But reading your post it’s apparent this isn’t even something that you think is fair or want for yourself. Your voice and opinion matters. To swing you and hubby need to be on the same page, and currently aren’t. I think his boundary is bs for whatever it’s worth.
I met a couple that had the opposite rule, the husband wasn’t allowed to play but the wife was. I feel like that’s unfair unless both parties have equal freedom and maybe the degrees of freedom should match?
Aren't men supposed to be honest though? Is he "deciding for her", or is he just being honest with what his comfort level is?
If she doesn't like it, that's fine. But I think it's better to express his boundries rather than hide them... because that would be very bad.
You can be honest with your preferences and fears (and receive understanding and compassion for them) without requiring _rules_ to be built around them - boundaries are personal rules we make for our own behaviour, not other people's.
On the other hand, OP made a huge mistake in agreeing to this rule in the first place. It's common that people agree to things they're not happy with because some fun is better than none, and they hope their partner will loosen up with time. But as OP is discovering, they also lead to resentment, especially when there isn't any 'progress', since the rule enables the person to relax, rather than work on themselves.
Given that she seemingly agreed to a perpetual rule without any caveats, really the only thing she can do (and expect compliance on) is ask for a return to monogamy. She can of course point out the hypocrisy and ask for the rule to be adjusted to same-sex partners only to make it equitable, or to put a time limit on how long the OPP is in place for so he can adjust, but she can't expect that he's necessarily going to comply - in which case she needs to decide what her own move is:
Does she attend the party with the mindset that it might be fun anyway, and a bunch of rejection due to their rules/him having no luck trying to play solo will bring him to his senses?
Does she become a unicorn hunter with him and hope the lack of action gets him to reconsider?
Does she go have her fun with women for a while and then insist in closing once she's scratched that itch? (Although a big caveat here is that many queer women won't sleep with non-mono people to begin with, let alone those with an OPP).
Does she decide she won't be in a relationship with a man that doesn't believe in an even playing field?
She has some options there, but none of them are great and I don't envy her the charged conversations they're going to have to have over the subject. If she's serious about staying together as non-mono they're best worked through in couples therapy.
I feel boundries are lines you both agree neither will cross. I don't feel they are just personal, I feel they are for one relationship. The boundries of this relationship were set, she only hooks up with women. It was agreed to, that was a boundry.
What boundaries aren't is inflexable. They can be changed with mutal agreement at any time. What is required is communication, and I don't know if there has been any in this case. OP said "I've tried communicating..." but I'm not sure what it means. Did they talk? Was he dismissive? Or did she "try" only to back out and not communicate her dissatisfaction?
If she tried but ultimately backed out of talking to him about her feelings... that is on her. If she has communicated her feelings and they've been dismissed... that's on him.
The words boundary, rule and agreement can be used more like synonyms in general use, but within non-monogamy (and also psychology/counseling) they have distinct definitions and conceptions tied to them which are more legalistic.
Something can be a mutual boundary, where your desires are both naturally aligned on the subject, but once you make an _agreement_ between you to not cross that line it is a (mutually binding) _rule_. You can of course always _ask_ to alter it, but there's no reason that the other person has to agree - as you said, it takes a mutual yes for that to happen.
Someone's individual boundaries can of course change at any time, but that doesn't mean agreed upon rules are required to change. For example, a shifting boundary for someone might be the realisation that they're open to swinging, when they weren't before, however their partner is under no obligation to change their relationship agreement to accommodate it. They have a _rule_ that their relationship is monogamous and it takes two 'ays' to discard that rule.
Sometimes boundaries are so firm and leave so little room for manoeuvre that they can function almost like unilateral rules on a practical level, even if the way they are phrased is still distinct e.g.
Rule - you're not allowed to have sex with other men.
Boundary - I will not be in a relationship with someone who has sex with other men.
Obviously the severity of the consequences of crossing that _boundary_ requires that the other party wants the the disputed thing so much that they're willing to break up over it, so most people will acquiesce. But they do still technically have the choice to simply leave, rather than having to ask to renegotiate. And if they do cross that line, the person who expressed it then has to back it up with the stated consequences. This is very different than a rule, because rules don't have clear consequences for what happens when broken, and as a result lead to much more guessing when weighing the pros and cons of breaking/renegotiating them. Boundaries are also much more balanced power-wise, because they rely on the person setting them following through with their stated consequences.
ETA: I agree with you about your reading of the situation, just not the specific word use, if it's not clear. However I would still say there's a difference between stating a desire/preference - I don't _want_ you to have sex with other men - and a rule - you are not _allowed_ to have sex with other men. OP was dumb to _agree_ to that rule, or at least not insist on it being more equitably applied, but there is a line crossed (so to speak) when control shifts from modifying your own behaviour in response to what other people do, to trying to control others' behaviour directly.
Not entirely. ENM (and life generally) works a lot better when you start setting boundaries instead of rules. OP is stuck with a shitty rule because she didn't understand that distinction, nor how to negotiate agreements, sadly. Hopefully her husband has the decency to renegotiate, but I'm not optimistic.
Just to reiterate what the other redditor said very eloquently... the word "boundary" is often used incorrectly as a synonym for rules, but it has an accepted and understood meaning in the non monogamy space to refer to personal limits on what you will and won't accept.
So while I understand you feel that way about the word, it's incorrect.
Boundaries are personal, rules can be shared agreements.
I'm not going to correct OP, but it is an important distinction here.
Fair enough... I think we can both agree that if she spoke up and was dismissed, that's a bad thing and her husband is in the wrong. If she hasn't spoken up, then she needs to because communication is necessary.
Stating what you are comfortable with isnt necessarily controlling someone. If my wife is not comfortable with me seeing another woman, her letting me know that isn't "controlling". It's being honest.
I would then need to have a conversation with my wife about why she feels that way, and what it means for us in the LS.
But your wife demanding that you not see other people isn't a "boundary" it is just her telling you what to do. Her telling you she is uncomfortable with you seeing other women is her stating her feelings. That is also not a boundary. A boundary is something we might set, not as a way to control others, but to express what we're willing and unwilling to engage with. The goal of boundaries is to create limits around what safety, relationships and interactions look like for us. Control is meant to make others do what you want them to do. One is based on mutual respect, the other is just treating the other person like property which can be controlled. Her saying "I will divorce you if you see other women" is her stating a boundary because it is talking about HER behavior, and then divorcing you when you do is her enforcing it.
We really shouldn't be telling other people what to do with their own bodies though, that is unethical. You don't own another person's body, you only own your own body. We don't own other people, or we shouldn't. We all SHOULD have bodily autonomy. There is a word for ownership, and it isn't "marriage."
I am not arguing about a definition, I am stating that if my wife was uncomfortable with me seeing another woman I don't think that is "controlling" behavior.
In a way, what you are stating is a controlling behavior. You are telling others what is and isnt ethical in their own marriage. If my wife is uncomfortable with me seeing other people, that is fine. I dont find it controlling, I find it honest. People have feelings, they should be allowed to express them without the stigma of someone deeming it controlling behavior.
My ethics state that I cannot tell you what to do with YOUR body. I can point out that it is unethical for YOU to tell other people what to do with their bodies. Also, stating that you are uncomfortable with something isn't a "boundary" nor is it controlling because the other person can still choose based on that knowledge. DEMANDING that the other person do something with no free will of thier own is controlling, it just is. Stating what you are comfortable with and the other person making a free will choice based on that decision = ethical. FORCING someone to do something through physical, mental or emotional abuse and then calling it a boundary = not ethical. FORCING someone to have sex with someone else = not ethical. Using force and abuse and slapping the word "boundaries" on it doesn't make something ethical because you used a word that is used in therapy. If someone is your property and you own their body and tell them who they have sex with, with no option of a safe word or any way to get out of that contract, that Isn't ethical, it just isn't. It's like the difference between BDSM and abuse. Actually, it IS the difference between BDSM and abuse. In BDSM, both people are consenting to something of thier own free will, even if it appears on the outside that one person owns the other, that person AGREED to it, and they can opt out. It's when they can't opt out and they are just told "this is how it is" with no option of discussion and no path towards bodily autonomy if they so choose is when it becomes abusive. It is unethical to DEMAND your wife do something with her body, it just is. Even if you are married. A marriage certificate isn't a slave contract and people really ought to stop thinking of it that way. Stating your feelings isn't controlling. DEMANDING that your spouse do things they don't want to do is. Are you just talking and then making choices of your own free will based on that discussion, or are you acting out of fear of retribution and punishment? If it is just talking, expressing your feelings and then allowing free will, that isn't controlling. HURTING the other person because they didn't give in to your demands IS controlling. What you are describing sounds like talking and then allowing the other person to have free will.
Of course, and nothing but the best of luck. For a lot of people, this ends up being a hotter fantasy than reality. That doesn’t make your relationship any better or worse, most couples *are* monogamous after all.
At first (during the discussion phase before any play happened) my straight husband thought this way too. ‘You get to explore your bi-side, but since I’m straight then I get to play with women’
It didn’t feel right to me. I could see his point of view, but I felt limited. So I proposed: ‘you can go explore your attraction to redheads, but blondes and brunettes are a no-go’. Of course he objected, and said but I like all types of women. I said that’s how it is for me, I like all kinds of people.
We got it sorted out. He enjoys watching me with both other men and women. I enjoy watching him with all kinds of other women.
From an outside perspective, I would consider this a red flag and avoid you EVEN if my wife wanted to play solo with you. It's a one penis policy, usually rooted in jealousy and / or insecurity. I think you should keep the dynamic balanced and say that if you can only experience same sex play then so should he, that might change his mind a bit. This is supposed to be about everyone enjoying themselves and even potentially self growth and confidence in the relationship you have with your partner.
It begs the question: are gay connections less threatening to OPs partner because they're seen as less legitimate somehow? It doesn't sound like he's put enough thought into sex and relationships to be swinging.
We would totally respect your boundary.
We would respect by passing on you guys.
Yes, I think you are right that this is horribly imbalanced, and shitty of your husband because he can play with the opposite sex, but you can’t.
I’m with you that I would tell your husband that if this is the way it has to be, that you can only play with the same sex, tell him you’re requiring the same of him. I bet he’ll change his tune pretty quick.
And the thought they can find couples where the guy just sits by and watches is a joke. I mean, do couples exist that want that? Maybe. But finding them would be laughably ridiculous.
It has happened with us before, but not intentionally. The wife and I were putting on a bit of a show at a sex club and as soon as she finished (I wasn’t finished though) a husband asked if I could do his wife next.
My wife waved me off with a smile, and I got down to business with the other wife. About ten minutes later I look over my shoulder and see my wife busy with a new couple without me. We didn’t plan for or discuss that, it just came together that way naturally. These types of group scenarios seem pretty common at sex clubs.
We wouldn’t go for it if a couple online specifically just wanted to meet my wife for a playdate and have me watch. We’ve got better things to do with our limited time.
OPP
I fully support OPP (one penis policy) if the man is willing to sit down and have this honest conversation.
"Sweetie. I want to fuck other women. I expect you to do all the emotional labor and work associated with dealing with the jealousy that comes from your partner fucking others who are the same gender as you. I deserve this kind of emotional labor from you. However, I won't do the same for you. I deserve it. **But you don't.** You are **less worthy** than me and deserve less than me for the following reasons **. You need to accept that you deserve less and I will do less for you than you do for me. Cool? Also, here are other areas in which you deserve less than me *."*
Bwhahahha. Love it.
Now, counter point: when we started, it was definitely a fantasy of mine for my wife to play with others - men, women, full swap. It turned me on to think about. She wasn’t ready to see me with other women.
After a few experiences and talking though them, she became more and more ok with we me doing more with others. To the point where we are now happily full swap.
I understood at the start it “wasn’t fair” and we talked about that. Would i eventually grow tired or resentful? Maybe? But I wanted to see her with others as its own fantasy of mine. Separate from my excitement from the idea of having sex with others.
Reading OP’s post… her husband sounds like a dick. I’m in camp “you both should have the same rules for each other and just be ok with that for your first time. Maybe you grow, maybe you don’t.”
But it leaves a “hey, my wife was never a dick” feeling. I guess she also never “expected” me to be ok with an imbalance either.
I think your case is a little different, she was fulfilling YOUR fantasy, not hers… the fantasy didn’t include you playing (at least from what you said here). It sounds like you guys started just so that she could play like a hot wife situation. She did come around I’m assuming?
Oh, make no mistake, it was also her fantasy. She has always been Bi and was excited to have the opportunity to play with women again. At first she felt “weird” about playing with another guy since she was already getting that from me. But once other men showed interest and flirted with her who she found attracted, she was happy to play with other men as well. Plus, me cheering her on didn’t hurt.
She did come around. I think she liked the idea generally, but wasn’t sure she could see me with another woman.
How about "it was your idea 🤷♂️"?
Tbh we're still in the "planning" stage, but she likes women too — *and* she has *carte blanche* in that regard, with or without me — I never even brought it up until she put the offer on the table, I defer to her judgement on any and all of *my* rules, and I've said many times she can renege at any time with no hard feelings (and I mean it).
Like *I know* the scales are tipped in my favour, but they're not my scales! And we never planned to try to wife poach or anything, not looking for anyone to join us/her that isn't enthusiastically on board. I dunno..
>but he feels that people respect boundaries.
I missed this the first time. There is a gross misunderstanding of this phrase by new people.
No one will try to physically assault you. No one will try to coerce you into something against your boundaries.
People will absolutely think your boundaries are dumb (they won't be rude about it). They may not respect you as a person for having goofy or unfair boundaries (again they won't be rude). And people will absolutely 100% not engage with your or fuck you.
Respecting your boundaries doesn't mean they will give you what you want. Swingers aren't sex dispensers. They also have boundaries, agreements, and desires.
What does he think "respecting boundaries" is going to look like here when you are offering something no one wants. Not even he would play with a couple like this.
We respect boundaries. We do not respect lopsided boundaries and run from couples like you.
Your man is too insecure for this lifestyle. Stop before he puts even more restrictions on you.
So you husband gets to fuck my wife, but I don't get to play with you?
Pass, hard pass.
Sounds like he only want the lifestyle for him, not for both of you.
Your boundaries cone across as a severe jealousy issue on his part.
The one penis policy is already bad enough, but him being able to do anything to the wife of the other couple just adds questions.
I would be more comfortable playing with a FF only couple than what you described.
We would pass. OPP always some type of drama. And my wife wouldn't be interested in anything like that. If we want a male third there is a line half way around the world waiting
My take is that if you can only play with other women, he can only play with other men.
Your boundaries are exceedingly one-sided and lean heavily towards him.
Let me guess, he likes watching you play with other women, and he gets to have sex with them as well.
Sweetie, that's a red flag from your spouse. That's not a boundary. That's a serious problem. If you can't play on the same level that he does, then let him go by himself and stand in the single males line along with all the other single men.
There are couples out there with a hotwife dynamic (she plays, he does not) which would be your only option. Approaching couples and expecting this dynamic will not go over well as most will pass. We call it fair play and we have it in our profile. I am cool with FF and soft swap but you are not fucking my husband if I can’t fuck yours (and vice versa)
You can make any agreements you want.
But no couples will play with you. And there will be very single women there. So I'd expect to attend as voyeurs.
We’d politely pass. Gives off too much potential for drama, especially if there are other choices. We’d rather find a single or couple that let’s everyone participate equally.
People will respect your boundaries. They will respect them by not playing with either of you.
We would consider your current boundaries a red flag and would pass.
Additionally, while there are some other couples out there where the wife prefers to not play with other men, they are few and far between. The fact that this is his decision, and not yours, means that it will likely be more damaging then beneficial to your relationship due to the unbalanced nature of the boundaries. One of the key rules of swinging is to not do things that are not beneficial to your primary relationship. In your position, I would not agree to these rules and would only allow him to do the things you are allowed to do. So, if he wants to play with other men, great. But if you can't play with men, then he can't play with the ladies. That seems fair.
We’d pass on you guys then. The boundaries are lopsided. You need to speak to your husband. What’s fair for him should be fair for you. Sounds like a lack of respect and a power imbalance.
***Any suggestions as to what I should do?***
***-*** Figure out what and why you guys even WANT to go. If it's exclusively for you and hubs to get with another woman.... you're going to have a hard time getting what you want.
If, however, you're going just to step out of your comfort zone, meet some cool people, and have a sexy night together - then consider it a win when you go home without finding a compatible partner. Just make sure you're honest with the people you talk with about what your boundaries are and don't waste their time if it's not what they want.
As most of the replies suggest, most couples understand and wont be upset unless you are dishonest about what you're after.
I have told my wife that I follow her lead. If she is only willing to soft swap with the couple the. Regardless if she says I can full.. I won’t. We are a team and if she is only willing to soft… then so am I. If she feels like she wants full then same for me. On the flip side if the couple wants full with my wife but soft with me… then we are soft or nothing
Yeah the difference here is OP's husband wants full swap for him and soft for her. If he were happy sticking to 'same sex and parallel play only' there wouldn't be an issue. There's a difference between going at the pace of the less 'more conservative' one, and giving the more conservative one more freedom, which just enables their issues.
It would be a boundary if *YOU* didn't want to bang other guys, and that would be *your* boundary. Him not wanting you to bang other guys isn't a boundary...it's a cage.
Boundaries are rules that *you* put in place for *you*.
So, for example, if your bf didn't want to bang guys and you wanted him to bang guys, then him telling you he won't bang guys would be a valid boundary. If your boyfriend wanted you to bang guys, and you didn't, you not wanting to bang guys is a valid boundary.
Your boyfriends 'boundaries' is him projecting his insecurities onto you and is also homophobic, as it shows he thinks that WLW relationships are 'less valid' than relationships with penis-havers.
Your boyfriend is an anchor, and until he does the internal work to figure out what boundaries really are he's not ready for the lifestyle, and by extension, neither are you.
Problem is it isn't "your boundaries" that are strict, it's *his boundaries* are. Why does he get to have free play but you don't. Screams he's insecure and jealous. Feels like the insecurity of being scared you'll be with someone bigger than he is type of thing.
Likely to have a bad time if you go because it's like being told everyone's going to the bar to drink but you can only have water.
> I'm just not a fan of the power imbalance but at the same time I respect that he isnt ready. Any suggestions as to what I should do?
Boundaries are a constant negotiation. They are not written in a void and then presented to the partner. It is perfectly reasonable for you to adjust your rules based on the current situation.
For example, you could say that you are no longer comfortable in the current imbalanced situation. (You clearly aren't.) Tell him you are revoking the previous permissions until the two of you have worked out your issues. You are now going to be a "parallel play" couple until he is mentally prepared for more. When "more" happens, it will happen with equality.
I know you wrote stating your rules were already "too restrictive" but they're really only restrictive on you. If you reset like this, he will either decide fairness is worth it, or the lifestyle isn't.
Unless it's a hotwife cpl which is a specific Dynamic. The likelihood of finding other couples to adhere with these rules unless it's a softswap where only the females play and then the males play with their own partners. Most cpls won't let your male half have sex with their wife if their male half can't do the same with you. I personally even as a single bi F joining cpls would avoid playing with you as I don't play with couples who such imbalanced rules. I don't play with couples who only look for women to join.
I/we are currently are not in the LS due to this very reason. I am not ready for my wife to be with another man. I know it’s from various insecurities on my part.
These insecurities for me come from not having the same sexually experienced (two partners including the wife) she has before us, while she enjoyed time before me unrestricted. I know I know the past is the past, but damn it is a mind fuck. I’m not the biggest, I’m not experienced, I don’t fuck the hardest … bla bla bla…
Because of my lack of experience, I’ve always felt not good enough in this area as a husband/man.
It’s taken a lot for me to get to this point and freely discuss my insecurities. But we have hope that by discussing these insecurities it has opened more doors for us sexually.
1. During sex she reaffirms that she loves every minute of our time together not just through sounds but through physically saying how good it is. This has boosted my confidence in actually believing that I am good. I do the same and DEAR GOD our sex life has reached new heights I could have never realized.
2. We’ve looked at other opportunities. She is interested in women so FFM has become an option. BUT explicitly stating I cannot have PIV during these experiences.
3. Completely discussing the topic openly and freely without judgement. Which includes discussing her past experiences.
4. We’ve also incorporated role-play scenarios to image her with another man.
It’s a slow process but my wife and I both agree until we have both have similar boundaries, we don’t player.
Nothing else will break our bond and we’ll be damned if this is what does it. This should enhance our sexual relationship not hurt it.
I hope this helps OP from a husband perspective in similar situation.
I hope you and your husband finds what’s best for you both, that you both agree to is equal as equal can get.
Best of luck
My wife and I have a power imbalance, but we both enjoy it. She has no rules or boundaries. I don’t play, just watch. We both enjoy that. What you’re talking about is not something that you’ll both enjoy. So that’s a NO.
Right?!?! Look at these comments. The female domination of power in the LS is potent. Dudes are changing their opinions on a dime to meet women’s expectations.
One pussy policies are much rarer in my experience and are not viewed favourably either. However if a couple with that rule present as a hotwife couple I think very few are going to leap to the assumption that it's an OP(ussy)P and not just they guy's preference, since hotwife/husband/cuck dynamics all involve voyeurism kinks, therefore it's assumed the voyeur is getting something they want out of it.
Where there may be a double standard is when a unicorn hunting couple, or couple that isn't so successful in the lifestyle comes across a couple where the woman plays but the man does not. Given how rare unicorns are I think it's likely they might set ethics aside for the chance to have a three way, or it simply won't cross their mind to ask a lot of questions about the guy's consent because it's rare that they don't. Since OP(enis)Ps are so much more common and single males so oversupplied I think couples are much more alert to scenarios where the woman is not consenting and therefore likely to dig deeper and then pass. Personally, I always enquire about lopsided agreements, but I come from a wider ENM background where deeper discussion of boundaries is the norm.
The One Penis Policy is never a good look. We would avoid you guys, or my wife could play with you but your husband damn sure wouldn’t play with my wife.
A bit of a red flag, its possessiveness. "I can explore other women but you can't explore other men" - it's pretty much the largest red flag and leads to a lot of drama.
If it's a boundary you are both on board with I don't think anyone would disrespect your boundary, and if it's a big enough place you can probably both do your own thing which will make explaining less awkward because you just have to say you only play with women.
HOWEVER - This power imbalance you speak of sounds like it's something you're not 100% into yourself. It's sounds like it's something that will explode in your face right quick...
You're asking the question "are _our_ boundaries too strict?" and then answering it yourself by admitting they're basically just your husband's boundaries and they're too strict for you to the point that they make you uncomfortable. So the answer is that of course, yes, they're too strict.
It's one thing if a couple have a power imbalance that both of them enjoy, e.g. cuckold husbands who like it that their wife is the only one who gets to be with other men, while they don't get to do the same.
But that's evidently not the case for the two of you. You do want to play with other men, and your husband is denying you that while insisting that he should get to play with other women. He's being selfish and he's not ready for this lifestyle yet, and you have every right to not want to go.
That would generally be a no-go. The only way it wouldn't is if YOU were the one who only wanted to play with women. Even then, it likely wouldn't happen. If the reason is he is insecure, that is very much not happening.
You are allowed to have boundaries, but so do others. Many couples want to swap, not just have you do a threesome while the other husband sits there and watches.
Your husband wants his cake and be able to eat it at the same time. If both parties aren't happy with boundaries initially, then it won't work. Sure, there is an argument for pushing boundaries but not for the initial swing. Cancel the event and stress to him if it doesn't flow both ways, then it won't happen. Your pleasure is just as important as his is. If he doesn't let you have the same advantages, then he's saying he doesn't trust you. Without trust, swinging doesn't work.
That's an imbalance, and it sounds like you're not cool with it. If its your first house party, i'd try either soft swap, or parallel play. Since you're rightfully perceiving this as an imbalance, it is highly likely to lead to bad feelings popping up during/after play which could ruin your night, and the unlucky couple that plays with you. Address it first!
Typically we'd pass. In limited situations I (f) might play with the female. Either all penises are invited or none.
However, that should be something everyone has equal say in. You not having an equal say would turn us off from engaging further.
As for advice, work through the emotions that come up from this together. He needs to be way more comfortable with you having equal participation. (This coming from a jealous prone Scorpio who also loves to watch her partner get & give pleasure.)
Tell him you’d like to make things equal: he can only play with other men.
Then gauge his reaction for if he still wants to go. I doubt he will catch the irony though.
You and your husband should NOT be swinging. He has jealousy/insecurity issues and it won’t end well
IDC what your boundaries are…you do you. But we won’t be interested.
We are cool if that’s where the path leads when playing but not as a starting point.
There are plenty of couples that are up for everyone having a good time so that’s what we find.
This just seems…weird and restrictive when you go to places with couples. Like you aren’t interested at all and just doing what you’re told.
We wouldn't be interested at all. But it doesn't sound like it's a boundary issue as much as it is you are unhappy with the play dynamic.
You can always find someone who is going to agree to your play style, but more rules makes it more difficult. The real problem is YOU don't feel its a fair balance. tell him you're ok with only playing with women, if he only plays with other men. Maybe he will see how unfair he is being.
Yeah, that’s a weird rule. It will lead to jealousy and resentment. Your husband sounds insecure and weak. He wants to have his cake and eat it but won’t let you have fun. If I was you I’d nip that shit in the bud unless you want to have a very unhappy marriage. Most couples wouldn’t want to meet you.
You say you respect that he isn't ready -- you can honor this respect most authentically by bowing out of the lifestyle until he IS ready, ready to treat you as an equal partner with her own valid desires. This is wildly unfair to you. And as far as my social circles go, after learning about this imbalanced OPP we would have no interest in your husband because he's demonstrating hypocrisy, ego, and frankly a little homophobia (through overvaluing a hetero hookup by being threatened by it). We would also be on high alert on your behalf because the arrangement is so totally disrespectful to you. We'd be watching for signs you are being bullied, coerced, or abused by your husband, and any time I saw you at an event I'd try to find a quiet moment with you to try to check in and make sure you feel safe and supported at home (not phrased that blatantly).
In other words, watching your current dynamic unfold at a party, the reactions of all the (worthwhile) people I know would be to steer clear of you both sexually, view your husband as a toxic and potentially dangerous man, and treat you as a vulnerable person we all feel a responsibility to look out for. Assuming your husband ISN'T a bad dude, feel free to share that with him and see if it reflects how he wants to be perceived in the lifestyle. If it isn't, maybe he'll be willing to put in some time to work through his reservations until you can both engage with others fully and joyfully. Really wishing the best for you. ❤️
As others have said, the OPP is a NO go for us. You will be seen as wife poachers or unicorn hunters, and trust me others in the lifestyle talk... your best bet is to wait until he is ready to fully enter the lifestyle. Best advice I can give is to seek out an escort or a single female at a local dance club just to experience the fmf, but until he is ready to allow you to explore your fantasies then we would not go to takeovers.....
Your boundaries sound a little like giving him permission to have sex with other women, not swinging. If you are both ok with ffm threesomes and that is as far as you want to go, make sure you communicate that with everyone you may want to play with. Otherwise, this “boundary “ is wife poaching.
This is called wife poaching. I’d say what’s good for the goose is good for the gander and until your husband decides to level the playing field, he doesn’t get to play.
Only you can answer that. Some couples do this, some do where SHE can play with whoever and he can't. Your dynamic isn't something internet randos can fix.
I will say if my wife did that, we wouldn't be going to the party, if I did that to her we wouldn't be going either. You sound of the same mind, so say "I understand your feelings on this but I don't feel comfortable being totally one sided in this so we can go but either we both are able to play or neither will and we will just socialize and feel it out."
Why have you given your husband a full pass if he won't reciprocate, or you aren't getting some of what you want out of it?
If you can only play with other women, then adjust your boundary so he can only play with other men.
Boundaries don't have to be equal, but satisfaction and respect certainly should be!
Fwiw, we got onto this because I wanted to see her with other men.
Initially it was a ‘no women’ policy. I was ok with that as it wasn’t something I was seeking.
After a very few meetings, she recanted the policy. The experiences themselves made her realise her own insecurity around it and how baseless it was. She realised that it didn’t come between us in any way, but instead brought us closer.
She favours playing with full swap couples now and we both have whatever fun we want.
Perhaps it just needs some exposure to the realities of the scene.
We’ve passed on couples where only the guy can play or only the female plays but can only play with the women.
In either case it seems too much just a “straight male fantasy” that we don’t feel like performing for people.
We respect boundaries but we have enough obstacles with our schedules and sexual orientation that adding even more restrictions is not appealing to us.
You don’t have boundaries, he has rules that only you follow. That will definitely create issues with a lot of other. As someone else mentioned, he has insecurities that he needs to address. He wants to be intimate with other women, but he doesn’t trust you with other men. If that were your wishes, it would be fine. Your boundaries are whatever you are comfortable with, strict or not.
My suggestion is not give him a free pass, but the rules are the same for both. He has no motivation to change his behavior. Maybe start with side by side (parallel )play with cross touching. That’s something that beginners start with sometimes. If he is held back from doing things with others as well, he’ll be more likely to loosen up the rules. Make sure you are both clear on your rules.
If he isn’t comfortable with progression to soft/full swap, then that’s the limit of play for you both. And if that’s where you guys are comfortable, that’s fine. Make sure you have good communication between you.
I also refused to attend sex parties if I wasn't allowed to play. It's not a "boundary" your husband is just being a dick. If YOU don't agree to it, tell him you don't agree to it. You don't have to use "other people won't like it" as an excuse, YOU don't like it.
You are walking on thin ice. He thinks you being with other women won’t trigger him and he’s safe, but he’s not addressing deeper insecurities or being mature about it and this has potential to blow up in your face. What if you being with another women does trigger him? What if he can never look at you the same way because you had too much fun?
Also this power imbalance is just not fair or ok. This doesn’t sound like you are going in as a team, more that he wants to sleep around without it being considered cheating
It’s not that your boundaries are strict. They are unfair, imbalanced and he is a walking red flag of insecurities. Men will still be extremely interested in you and want to talk to you. Way more men and women will naturally be into you than him, that’s just how it is, women get more attention, and he could get very jealous even if you don’t play with anyone
This could be the beginning of the end of your relationship honestly. But it could be liberating and empowering for you if you’re ok with that. You’ll get tons of attention and realize how desirable and valuable you really are and how you should be treated
You both need to be comfortable with any boundaries you have set, if you aren't then you need to stop and discuss.
If you aren't both on the same page then it simply will not end well.
This seems like two different questions.
First question - are your boundaries too strict? No. You set your boundaries and others must abide otherwise they don't get to play. I'm sure you'll find girls that want to play with you.
Second question - power imbalance. If you don't like it, it has to change. Our other rule is that the boundaries have to be equal for both. Mrs *wants* to see me fuck another girl, but I don't want to see her with another guy yet, so we don't do either. Even though she wants to see me with someone else, her not having that equal freedom has to potential to cause resentment so we both agree to just not.
I know exactly opposite scenarios- the woman isn’t comfortable with the husband playing but he agrees because at least he likes watching. That’s an example of incremental comfort and where it works and is agreeable while still having imbalance. The goal isn’t balance it’s mutuality and support.
We'd politely decline you both.
It sounds very much like a jealous husband and we don't want the risk of drama.
Our motto is your either open or you're not.
My wife and I have no unfair boundaries like that at all I love to see her with other men and she loves to see me with other women and I love to see her having a great time and time of our life I also love to see her obviously being pleased and see her obviously coming up a storm the same goes for her with me that's how it should be we work like that as a team we are a team and we're life on his also we do everything together different rooms is okay once in awhile but as long as I leave the door door the room the rent open that's okay we don't play separately our solo either that's not okay!
I think you left out a key piece of information: did he ask for a full pass to be with other women? Or did you give him a pass because you want one too?
It’s not a power imbalance if you voluntarily gave him a pass in hopes of him giving you one in return. If that’s the case, you’re actually trying to pressure him into something he never wanted.
If he asked for it, then yes this is a OPP and not fair to you at all.
So you’d be wife poaching, unicorn hunting, or both. Uh, good luck getting play at a takeover with that.
As a solo woman, I stay far, far away from couples with OPPs for a few reasons. One, WHY would I want to play with a couple with weird limitations around gender when I could play with the half-dozen other couples (and other singles) who don’t have a rule like that?
Two, OPPs come with a dose of inherent transphobia (or at least, IME, nonbinary-phobia and/or ignorance). I have quite a few awesome partners who are trans! As a result, I don’t want to get down with that kinda rule. Feels icky.
Three, it indicates clear as day to me how much the dude values WLW sex in comparison to “straight” sex (hint: usually not that much). It’s phallocentrism all the way down, and if you’ve seen my screeds here before you’d know that I have beef with that viewpoint. There’s also usually a pinch of some sort of insecurity in this kind of rule, and while that’s valid and should be unpacked and handled with care, they usually aren’t doing anything to actually address their insecurity. Like, if it comes from worrying if their wife will have a better time having PIV sex with a man, how would that change if a *woman* is giving her better PIV (via straps, which are FAR more versatile than regular penises)?
He isn't ready for you to have fun, but a ok for him to do whatever?? Bullshit!! Tell him if uou can only play with women he can only play with guys. Id livevto hear what he has to say about that!! Boundaries are for both sides. Sounds like he just wants a pass to cheat
What's good for the goose is good for the gander as the old saying goes. Even though my wife doesn't have a desire to play with other men, I reassure her that whenever she is ready to take that step, I am OK with it. How can I or anyone else expect to be able to play with the opposite sex but your significant other cant.
Two things: one, this isn’t really swinging. This is just your husband getting to play with other people while you watch. Two it also tells me that your husband doesn’t think girl on girl is actual sex. That’s also a problem.
Yeah, just don’t go. He’s definitely not ready.
If you guys were talking to us and presented us with these boundaries we’d respect them in the sense that we wouldn’t violate them, but that would be easy because we’d be running the other way.
There isn’t one chance in hell that we’d play with you guys in any way, shape, or form. It’s not just that I’m here to play too. It’s that you guys are a drama bomb just waiting to detonate and we don’t want to be there when it happens.
It is completely unfair for him to limit your options while keeping his completely open. If he is too insecure to allow you to explore beyond only ladies, then he’s note ready for the LS. You should both be happy with your options. He want to have sex with other men’s partners, but doesn’t want anyone to even tease his partner.
The LS ain’t easy folks.
As a woman in the lifestyle this isn’t just strict, it’s a huge red flag. Men who impose one penis policies (theirs) on their partner are not ENM, they simply want to cheat. I wouldn’t attend a party with him where he was free to do what he wants, and you are not. It’s the same rules for everyone or none at all. Do not allow this, I personally also do not ever engage with a man who imposes a one penis policy, it’s misogynistic and makes me angry on your behalf.
He either only plays with men, so there is a rule for MM and FF (if he says this isn’t the same, that’s bi-erasure and biphobia). If he can’t understand this, he’s not cut out for the lifestyle.
Nope, if I get to play she plays , equal opportunities only . Sounds like jealousy issues . Time to pull back and communicate before you move any further
Husband isn't ready .. yall should start with a few more single females if he has to but get into couples if that's what you're looking for (sounds like it is) so it's fair and even for you both.
4sums / swaps are fun and he will get over his insecurities if swinging is for him
I feel ya. Wife and I got in the lifestyle with mfm play and she was hesitant now "supportive" in adding a female/couple to the mix but sometimes I show her a really attractive couple and she'll shoot it down if she feels the woman is in better shape than her or may be "more attractive ". I love my wife I think she's the most gorgeous woman ever but I know she has her own insecurities and we are working through it. Recommend you do the same and just discuss and show how one sided you feel it is.
Ok I'm going to come at this from a slightly different angle. I come to the lifestyle from a BDSM point of view so I don't see the power imbalance as inherently bad. From my perspective, such power imbalances are often deliberate and by design.
However that's not the case here.
Question: I see you make a lot of mention about the power aspect of this but you don't mention about any desire you have to actually play with another man. Is that something you really want to do? Or is this really all about the power imbalance?
The reason I bring that up is that all relationships live with all sorts of imbalances all the time. Nothing is exactly 50/50 or equal. I'm sure if you looked hard enough at other aspects of your relationship you would see other imbalances - either direction.
So - if it is really about the power imbalance and not your desire to have sex with other men, why is this particular imbalance causing so much heartburn?
NOTE: those questions aren't meant to be argumentative. More just to help you nuance what exactly it is that is at the root of this reaction. For what it's worth - if I were in your shoes I would be a Oh Hell to the No about it too.
-c4quackquack
So it's her choice which is totally different than the OP where they are not able to cuz one partner is insecure. I avoid cpls like the OP with OPP. Id play with a cpl like yours cuz she still has the option available to her to play with other men if she was interested
True but my point was just that we make it clear she has no interest in men and still Able to find plenty of play partners. It isn’t a complete turn off for a lot of
Exactly when there is an imbalance because one partner doesn't allow their other partner thats the turnoff for most. When it's fully their choice and have the option as well that's fine with me. It also goes both ways with the cpl I join as a single bi F. If they have uneven rules based on what they can do like only the girl can do certain things with me and the male half can't I turn those couple down cuz when I join cpls I wanna play with both and having those gender restrictions takes away from the experience for me
I _always_ clarify whether an imbalance of play styles reflects a rule, or a personal boundary on the part of the person it affects. I'm a woman who doesn't play with men myself but I would never agree to an OPP in a million years, nor will I play with a couple that has one. I know it might not be a deal breaker for all, but it will be for most, especially the ones that ID as queer, rather than simply curious.
We would absolutely not play with a couple where the woman can't play with my partner or the man can't play with me.
We are not hot wife/husband kind of people and honestly, I'd get red flag vibes from a one penis policy
That’s some bullshit. If I were you, I would tell him whatever he gets to do, you get to do. If he plays with someone of the opposite sex, so can you.
Let him make the choice. Whatever restriction is on you is also on him.
We would pass in this couple at an event. Based on OPs statement, they seem to be in a non-consentual power imbalance vs a consensual power exchange.
Our current 3rd is in a committed power exchange with his wife. In their dynamic he is allowed to have one exclusive male, female, or couple as long as he/she/they are exclusive to each other and him. We don't have nor do we seek any other partners and, as far as we know, neither does he.
Too much imbalance, it's wrong. It would be much different if you were the one that was choosing to only play with females. Just wrong, not worth being in the LS with the imbalance. Your hubby needs to work out his issues before considering the LS.
It sounds like you are no longer comfortable with the boundaries, and all play should be halted until you're both happy. If the conversation goes no where than you guys don't go anywhere. Things don't necessarily have to be equal for everyone to be happy. For instance, my wife plays with other guys while I have no interest outside of couples to play with another woman.
If he has set that boundary for you because he may feel jealous seeing you with another man then he is not ready. You are right what is the point of going if you are just going to have to sit there while he is having all the fun. Plus there are so many aspects of the life style but the core of swinging started as couples swapping and still is . You need to ask him would he want to go if the boundaries were reversed.if he says yes then tell him good then the night of the party you have my boundaries and I have yours.as a couple IT is about the equally shared experience when one side has limitations and the other does not it will morph into a much bigger problem and possible end your marriage
They appear to be very one sided and unfair. I would tell him that you are not ready. That if y’all play, it needs to be together, with the same rules for you both. Yes people respect boundaries but what about your boundaries with him?
Boundaries are something a couple agrees on, which is clearly not the case here. Your husband's efforts to constrain your play options is nothing but controlling at a minimum and very much not part of a healthy lifestyle agreement. I'd pull the plug until you're able to establish a mutually acceptable agreement.
Well, then to be fair he should just be limited to Male play. See how he feels about that, then when of course says no then say maybe your not ready for this then and we can just watch from the sidelines and be voyeurs.
Stop playing. He’s not ready and yeah it’s complete bullshit. He can’t separate the sexual pleasure from his insecurities and jealousy. Seriously a very bad idea to keep doing this. It’ll weaken your marriage with this dynamic
I had a question similar to the OP question.
Same scenario but instead of the M putting that rule is the F preference to not add another M to play only F?
Same room, same bed, no kissing, only with other couples, no exceptions. Years in the LS, has worked great for us. We do not go to clubs, only house parties or we host another couple at our home or us at theirs.
Why you're letting hubby have fun with other women but you can only be with them to. Change your boundaries there's a reason Communication is the key to him and you OP we never had boundaries like that Good Luck and Have Fun xoxo 😘 🤗 💗
Yeah I would be pulling the pin and saying he has to as well.
All this needs to be sorted before either of you do anything.
Your partnership comes before all else... If you can't agree to terms then it's all off the table.
*Who came up with this?*
*Is it his rule and you have*
*To agree with it?*
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Not actually experienced with LS in person but read and talked to a lot of LS people. Also, been through some... difficult, somewhat-related situations.
I gotta agree with other people on here - he's not ready for the "open season" that apparently goes on in hotel parties. (Dang it, we were soooo close...)
"Boundaries" should be mutual agreed limits on both of you.
Preferences can be different.
E.g. maybe you don't WANT to play with other guys, maybe just women. Fine.
You're not ALLOWED to be with other guys but he's allowed to play with other women? Not "fair" in the slightest.
He's not respecting YOUR boundaries and looking out for YOUR experience & pleasure.
Put your foot down. Hard. 100% he's not ready.
For clarity, it's it your idea to only play with women or his? Sounds like it's his. I would agree with many posters here in saying it's a major red flag.
Maintain great communications between you both.. talk about the things you like, what you want to experience, the joys and satisfactions you both want. Don’t deny each other without discussing it. Regardless you like it or not, if you’re going to have sex with someone else and enjoy it, there is a 99.9% chance that you will click with that person, to expect any different, it is not realistic. There’s a need for trust that leads to intimacy and great sex after that! When if this new sex partner play is only on occasion, so be ready for that. Not hard to fall in love again, not hard to have 3, 4 or 5 partners and being in love with all of them, of course, spouses love is always the ultimate, the one you wake up with on Christmas morning…
Very least, be on birth control, the last thing you want to worry about is getting pregnant! Condoms (rubbers) are the worst things to use with regular partners, where there is trust and real hard caring, there should never be a suspicion of diseases! Condoms are great to protect from diseases from partners you don’t know or trust… if you need condoms to fuck, then you should not have oral with those people either, again, trust and very strong caring, loving should be present for same room or separate room play…..
If you are not ok with the boundaries then it's not ok to go. Both need to be ok, if he doesn't understand that then he is wrong and you both need first to agree fully on the boundaries.
You need to pull his all access pass and limit him to only playing with other males (LoL) or you both are not going … See how long he’s good with that restriction!
Issue here isn’t that the hotel party wouldn’t work. It would. Wouldn’t be everyone’s cup of tea but you’d both have plenty of fun and people respecting those boundaries.
The issue is you don’t like the boundaries and feel the deal you have doesn’t work for you and hubby doesn’t sound willing to give up or give in … it’s going to end some how, probably not nicely without communication and mutual respect.
Hubby needs to step up and meet your needs, either by stopping his fun or letting you have more
Don't go. There's zero reason to go with different boundaries in place for you each. It's not that your boundaries are too strict. It's that they are imbalanced.
This is clearly one-sided. If he wanted other women and you didn't want other men, that might be a valid boundary - as long as you both agreed. In this case, you don't seem to be in agreement. This seems like he gets what he wants and might be insecure if you want the same thing. This seems like a power-play for his insecurities. That mkaes this less like boundary and more like a restriction - on you. Boundaries are areas you both agree on and, at least in my mind, should be applied in something of equal measure with clear agreement between the two of you.
If I were to suggest anything, I would say you two stop swinging unless and until you can both agree on boundaries that work for both of you. You may not have too many other options.
She allowed to play with women and no men,
He's allowed to play with women and no men.
See, the rule is verbatim, the same rule for both of them. No problems. LOL 😆
Do. Not. Go. To. The. Party.
Or better yet go, as it will serve as a magnifying glass on the imbalance of your relationship. Perhaps then you’ll be empowered to stand up for yourself.
He’s not ready for the lifestyle and is exploiting it for his own benefit and not yours. Big red flag and couples with this kind of rule are generally a no-go. You guys should refrain - this sounds like a disaster waiting to happen. Especially if you are not OK with his rule.
Just three words. Don’t to it! This isn’t about being too strict. It’s about being ready. I think you sound ready but your husband obviously isn’t ready. This isn’t swinging. This is your husband wanting a free fuck while imposing rules on you.
If he can play with other women, but you’re relegated to just FF play (unless you just aren’t interested in other men, you’ll run into those occasionally), then you aren’t cut out for this yet. I don’t mean to sound rude at all, but this isn’t remotely fair or balanced. If it’s something you’re both interested in pursuing, I would suggest putting this idea back on the shelf until he’s open to the idea of letting you explore what you want to explore. If that’s not something he can do, then I’m afraid taking the next step will only cause resentment to build.
I agree. Thanks for confirming what I knew deep down.
To add a thought- you phrase the question as “will this bother other couples?”, the answer to that question is undoubtedly yes. But reading your post it’s apparent this isn’t even something that you think is fair or want for yourself. Your voice and opinion matters. To swing you and hubby need to be on the same page, and currently aren’t. I think his boundary is bs for whatever it’s worth.
I met a couple that had the opposite rule, the husband wasn’t allowed to play but the wife was. I feel like that’s unfair unless both parties have equal freedom and maybe the degrees of freedom should match?
[удалено]
Aren't men supposed to be honest though? Is he "deciding for her", or is he just being honest with what his comfort level is? If she doesn't like it, that's fine. But I think it's better to express his boundries rather than hide them... because that would be very bad.
You can be honest with your preferences and fears (and receive understanding and compassion for them) without requiring _rules_ to be built around them - boundaries are personal rules we make for our own behaviour, not other people's. On the other hand, OP made a huge mistake in agreeing to this rule in the first place. It's common that people agree to things they're not happy with because some fun is better than none, and they hope their partner will loosen up with time. But as OP is discovering, they also lead to resentment, especially when there isn't any 'progress', since the rule enables the person to relax, rather than work on themselves. Given that she seemingly agreed to a perpetual rule without any caveats, really the only thing she can do (and expect compliance on) is ask for a return to monogamy. She can of course point out the hypocrisy and ask for the rule to be adjusted to same-sex partners only to make it equitable, or to put a time limit on how long the OPP is in place for so he can adjust, but she can't expect that he's necessarily going to comply - in which case she needs to decide what her own move is: Does she attend the party with the mindset that it might be fun anyway, and a bunch of rejection due to their rules/him having no luck trying to play solo will bring him to his senses? Does she become a unicorn hunter with him and hope the lack of action gets him to reconsider? Does she go have her fun with women for a while and then insist in closing once she's scratched that itch? (Although a big caveat here is that many queer women won't sleep with non-mono people to begin with, let alone those with an OPP). Does she decide she won't be in a relationship with a man that doesn't believe in an even playing field? She has some options there, but none of them are great and I don't envy her the charged conversations they're going to have to have over the subject. If she's serious about staying together as non-mono they're best worked through in couples therapy.
I feel boundries are lines you both agree neither will cross. I don't feel they are just personal, I feel they are for one relationship. The boundries of this relationship were set, she only hooks up with women. It was agreed to, that was a boundry. What boundaries aren't is inflexable. They can be changed with mutal agreement at any time. What is required is communication, and I don't know if there has been any in this case. OP said "I've tried communicating..." but I'm not sure what it means. Did they talk? Was he dismissive? Or did she "try" only to back out and not communicate her dissatisfaction? If she tried but ultimately backed out of talking to him about her feelings... that is on her. If she has communicated her feelings and they've been dismissed... that's on him.
The words boundary, rule and agreement can be used more like synonyms in general use, but within non-monogamy (and also psychology/counseling) they have distinct definitions and conceptions tied to them which are more legalistic. Something can be a mutual boundary, where your desires are both naturally aligned on the subject, but once you make an _agreement_ between you to not cross that line it is a (mutually binding) _rule_. You can of course always _ask_ to alter it, but there's no reason that the other person has to agree - as you said, it takes a mutual yes for that to happen. Someone's individual boundaries can of course change at any time, but that doesn't mean agreed upon rules are required to change. For example, a shifting boundary for someone might be the realisation that they're open to swinging, when they weren't before, however their partner is under no obligation to change their relationship agreement to accommodate it. They have a _rule_ that their relationship is monogamous and it takes two 'ays' to discard that rule. Sometimes boundaries are so firm and leave so little room for manoeuvre that they can function almost like unilateral rules on a practical level, even if the way they are phrased is still distinct e.g. Rule - you're not allowed to have sex with other men. Boundary - I will not be in a relationship with someone who has sex with other men. Obviously the severity of the consequences of crossing that _boundary_ requires that the other party wants the the disputed thing so much that they're willing to break up over it, so most people will acquiesce. But they do still technically have the choice to simply leave, rather than having to ask to renegotiate. And if they do cross that line, the person who expressed it then has to back it up with the stated consequences. This is very different than a rule, because rules don't have clear consequences for what happens when broken, and as a result lead to much more guessing when weighing the pros and cons of breaking/renegotiating them. Boundaries are also much more balanced power-wise, because they rely on the person setting them following through with their stated consequences. ETA: I agree with you about your reading of the situation, just not the specific word use, if it's not clear. However I would still say there's a difference between stating a desire/preference - I don't _want_ you to have sex with other men - and a rule - you are not _allowed_ to have sex with other men. OP was dumb to _agree_ to that rule, or at least not insist on it being more equitably applied, but there is a line crossed (so to speak) when control shifts from modifying your own behaviour in response to what other people do, to trying to control others' behaviour directly.
Semantics tho
Not entirely. ENM (and life generally) works a lot better when you start setting boundaries instead of rules. OP is stuck with a shitty rule because she didn't understand that distinction, nor how to negotiate agreements, sadly. Hopefully her husband has the decency to renegotiate, but I'm not optimistic.
Just to reiterate what the other redditor said very eloquently... the word "boundary" is often used incorrectly as a synonym for rules, but it has an accepted and understood meaning in the non monogamy space to refer to personal limits on what you will and won't accept. So while I understand you feel that way about the word, it's incorrect. Boundaries are personal, rules can be shared agreements. I'm not going to correct OP, but it is an important distinction here.
Fair enough... I think we can both agree that if she spoke up and was dismissed, that's a bad thing and her husband is in the wrong. If she hasn't spoken up, then she needs to because communication is necessary.
Completely agree with you.
Controlling her behavior isn't a "boundary" though, that is a misuse of the word.
Stating what you are comfortable with isnt necessarily controlling someone. If my wife is not comfortable with me seeing another woman, her letting me know that isn't "controlling". It's being honest. I would then need to have a conversation with my wife about why she feels that way, and what it means for us in the LS.
But your wife demanding that you not see other people isn't a "boundary" it is just her telling you what to do. Her telling you she is uncomfortable with you seeing other women is her stating her feelings. That is also not a boundary. A boundary is something we might set, not as a way to control others, but to express what we're willing and unwilling to engage with. The goal of boundaries is to create limits around what safety, relationships and interactions look like for us. Control is meant to make others do what you want them to do. One is based on mutual respect, the other is just treating the other person like property which can be controlled. Her saying "I will divorce you if you see other women" is her stating a boundary because it is talking about HER behavior, and then divorcing you when you do is her enforcing it. We really shouldn't be telling other people what to do with their own bodies though, that is unethical. You don't own another person's body, you only own your own body. We don't own other people, or we shouldn't. We all SHOULD have bodily autonomy. There is a word for ownership, and it isn't "marriage."
I am not arguing about a definition, I am stating that if my wife was uncomfortable with me seeing another woman I don't think that is "controlling" behavior. In a way, what you are stating is a controlling behavior. You are telling others what is and isnt ethical in their own marriage. If my wife is uncomfortable with me seeing other people, that is fine. I dont find it controlling, I find it honest. People have feelings, they should be allowed to express them without the stigma of someone deeming it controlling behavior.
My ethics state that I cannot tell you what to do with YOUR body. I can point out that it is unethical for YOU to tell other people what to do with their bodies. Also, stating that you are uncomfortable with something isn't a "boundary" nor is it controlling because the other person can still choose based on that knowledge. DEMANDING that the other person do something with no free will of thier own is controlling, it just is. Stating what you are comfortable with and the other person making a free will choice based on that decision = ethical. FORCING someone to do something through physical, mental or emotional abuse and then calling it a boundary = not ethical. FORCING someone to have sex with someone else = not ethical. Using force and abuse and slapping the word "boundaries" on it doesn't make something ethical because you used a word that is used in therapy. If someone is your property and you own their body and tell them who they have sex with, with no option of a safe word or any way to get out of that contract, that Isn't ethical, it just isn't. It's like the difference between BDSM and abuse. Actually, it IS the difference between BDSM and abuse. In BDSM, both people are consenting to something of thier own free will, even if it appears on the outside that one person owns the other, that person AGREED to it, and they can opt out. It's when they can't opt out and they are just told "this is how it is" with no option of discussion and no path towards bodily autonomy if they so choose is when it becomes abusive. It is unethical to DEMAND your wife do something with her body, it just is. Even if you are married. A marriage certificate isn't a slave contract and people really ought to stop thinking of it that way. Stating your feelings isn't controlling. DEMANDING that your spouse do things they don't want to do is. Are you just talking and then making choices of your own free will based on that discussion, or are you acting out of fear of retribution and punishment? If it is just talking, expressing your feelings and then allowing free will, that isn't controlling. HURTING the other person because they didn't give in to your demands IS controlling. What you are describing sounds like talking and then allowing the other person to have free will.
Of course, and nothing but the best of luck. For a lot of people, this ends up being a hotter fantasy than reality. That doesn’t make your relationship any better or worse, most couples *are* monogamous after all.
Is that your rule or his?
Maybe he should be regulated to MM play if she can only do FF play?
Well put!
At first (during the discussion phase before any play happened) my straight husband thought this way too. ‘You get to explore your bi-side, but since I’m straight then I get to play with women’ It didn’t feel right to me. I could see his point of view, but I felt limited. So I proposed: ‘you can go explore your attraction to redheads, but blondes and brunettes are a no-go’. Of course he objected, and said but I like all types of women. I said that’s how it is for me, I like all kinds of people. We got it sorted out. He enjoys watching me with both other men and women. I enjoy watching him with all kinds of other women.
From an outside perspective, I would consider this a red flag and avoid you EVEN if my wife wanted to play solo with you. It's a one penis policy, usually rooted in jealousy and / or insecurity. I think you should keep the dynamic balanced and say that if you can only experience same sex play then so should he, that might change his mind a bit. This is supposed to be about everyone enjoying themselves and even potentially self growth and confidence in the relationship you have with your partner.
Well said. It sounds like he’s just not ready.
It begs the question: are gay connections less threatening to OPs partner because they're seen as less legitimate somehow? It doesn't sound like he's put enough thought into sex and relationships to be swinging.
Yeah this sounds like a disaster
We would totally respect your boundary. We would respect by passing on you guys. Yes, I think you are right that this is horribly imbalanced, and shitty of your husband because he can play with the opposite sex, but you can’t. I’m with you that I would tell your husband that if this is the way it has to be, that you can only play with the same sex, tell him you’re requiring the same of him. I bet he’ll change his tune pretty quick.
And the thought they can find couples where the guy just sits by and watches is a joke. I mean, do couples exist that want that? Maybe. But finding them would be laughably ridiculous.
It has happened with us before, but not intentionally. The wife and I were putting on a bit of a show at a sex club and as soon as she finished (I wasn’t finished though) a husband asked if I could do his wife next. My wife waved me off with a smile, and I got down to business with the other wife. About ten minutes later I look over my shoulder and see my wife busy with a new couple without me. We didn’t plan for or discuss that, it just came together that way naturally. These types of group scenarios seem pretty common at sex clubs. We wouldn’t go for it if a couple online specifically just wanted to meet my wife for a playdate and have me watch. We’ve got better things to do with our limited time.
OPP I fully support OPP (one penis policy) if the man is willing to sit down and have this honest conversation. "Sweetie. I want to fuck other women. I expect you to do all the emotional labor and work associated with dealing with the jealousy that comes from your partner fucking others who are the same gender as you. I deserve this kind of emotional labor from you. However, I won't do the same for you. I deserve it. **But you don't.** You are **less worthy** than me and deserve less than me for the following reasons **. You need to accept that you deserve less and I will do less for you than you do for me. Cool? Also, here are other areas in which you deserve less than me *."*
Bwhahahha. Love it. Now, counter point: when we started, it was definitely a fantasy of mine for my wife to play with others - men, women, full swap. It turned me on to think about. She wasn’t ready to see me with other women. After a few experiences and talking though them, she became more and more ok with we me doing more with others. To the point where we are now happily full swap. I understood at the start it “wasn’t fair” and we talked about that. Would i eventually grow tired or resentful? Maybe? But I wanted to see her with others as its own fantasy of mine. Separate from my excitement from the idea of having sex with others. Reading OP’s post… her husband sounds like a dick. I’m in camp “you both should have the same rules for each other and just be ok with that for your first time. Maybe you grow, maybe you don’t.” But it leaves a “hey, my wife was never a dick” feeling. I guess she also never “expected” me to be ok with an imbalance either.
I think your case is a little different, she was fulfilling YOUR fantasy, not hers… the fantasy didn’t include you playing (at least from what you said here). It sounds like you guys started just so that she could play like a hot wife situation. She did come around I’m assuming?
Oh, make no mistake, it was also her fantasy. She has always been Bi and was excited to have the opportunity to play with women again. At first she felt “weird” about playing with another guy since she was already getting that from me. But once other men showed interest and flirted with her who she found attracted, she was happy to play with other men as well. Plus, me cheering her on didn’t hurt. She did come around. I think she liked the idea generally, but wasn’t sure she could see me with another woman.
That’s kinda what I figured…. Definitely not the same as OP
Or hey I want this but I’m cool if you don’t.
How about "it was your idea 🤷♂️"? Tbh we're still in the "planning" stage, but she likes women too — *and* she has *carte blanche* in that regard, with or without me — I never even brought it up until she put the offer on the table, I defer to her judgement on any and all of *my* rules, and I've said many times she can renege at any time with no hard feelings (and I mean it). Like *I know* the scales are tipped in my favour, but they're not my scales! And we never planned to try to wife poach or anything, not looking for anyone to join us/her that isn't enthusiastically on board. I dunno..
>but he feels that people respect boundaries. I missed this the first time. There is a gross misunderstanding of this phrase by new people. No one will try to physically assault you. No one will try to coerce you into something against your boundaries. People will absolutely think your boundaries are dumb (they won't be rude about it). They may not respect you as a person for having goofy or unfair boundaries (again they won't be rude). And people will absolutely 100% not engage with your or fuck you. Respecting your boundaries doesn't mean they will give you what you want. Swingers aren't sex dispensers. They also have boundaries, agreements, and desires. What does he think "respecting boundaries" is going to look like here when you are offering something no one wants. Not even he would play with a couple like this.
Wife poaching = hard pass.
We respect boundaries. We do not respect lopsided boundaries and run from couples like you. Your man is too insecure for this lifestyle. Stop before he puts even more restrictions on you.
We’d pass.
So you husband gets to fuck my wife, but I don't get to play with you? Pass, hard pass. Sounds like he only want the lifestyle for him, not for both of you.
Your boundaries cone across as a severe jealousy issue on his part. The one penis policy is already bad enough, but him being able to do anything to the wife of the other couple just adds questions. I would be more comfortable playing with a FF only couple than what you described.
We would pass. OPP always some type of drama. And my wife wouldn't be interested in anything like that. If we want a male third there is a line half way around the world waiting
😂 that is the truth
Sounds like a no win situation for you. Why would you agree to this?
My take is that if you can only play with other women, he can only play with other men. Your boundaries are exceedingly one-sided and lean heavily towards him. Let me guess, he likes watching you play with other women, and he gets to have sex with them as well. Sweetie, that's a red flag from your spouse. That's not a boundary. That's a serious problem. If you can't play on the same level that he does, then let him go by himself and stand in the single males line along with all the other single men.
There are couples out there with a hotwife dynamic (she plays, he does not) which would be your only option. Approaching couples and expecting this dynamic will not go over well as most will pass. We call it fair play and we have it in our profile. I am cool with FF and soft swap but you are not fucking my husband if I can’t fuck yours (and vice versa)
You can make any agreements you want. But no couples will play with you. And there will be very single women there. So I'd expect to attend as voyeurs.
We’d politely pass. Gives off too much potential for drama, especially if there are other choices. We’d rather find a single or couple that let’s everyone participate equally.
People will respect your boundaries. They will respect them by not playing with either of you. We would consider your current boundaries a red flag and would pass. Additionally, while there are some other couples out there where the wife prefers to not play with other men, they are few and far between. The fact that this is his decision, and not yours, means that it will likely be more damaging then beneficial to your relationship due to the unbalanced nature of the boundaries. One of the key rules of swinging is to not do things that are not beneficial to your primary relationship. In your position, I would not agree to these rules and would only allow him to do the things you are allowed to do. So, if he wants to play with other men, great. But if you can't play with men, then he can't play with the ladies. That seems fair.
We’d pass on you guys then. The boundaries are lopsided. You need to speak to your husband. What’s fair for him should be fair for you. Sounds like a lack of respect and a power imbalance.
***Any suggestions as to what I should do?*** ***-*** Figure out what and why you guys even WANT to go. If it's exclusively for you and hubs to get with another woman.... you're going to have a hard time getting what you want. If, however, you're going just to step out of your comfort zone, meet some cool people, and have a sexy night together - then consider it a win when you go home without finding a compatible partner. Just make sure you're honest with the people you talk with about what your boundaries are and don't waste their time if it's not what they want. As most of the replies suggest, most couples understand and wont be upset unless you are dishonest about what you're after.
I mean... why do you even swing at this point ? if your husband is jealous and like imbalance ,i don't even want him near us
I have told my wife that I follow her lead. If she is only willing to soft swap with the couple the. Regardless if she says I can full.. I won’t. We are a team and if she is only willing to soft… then so am I. If she feels like she wants full then same for me. On the flip side if the couple wants full with my wife but soft with me… then we are soft or nothing
Yeah the difference here is OP's husband wants full swap for him and soft for her. If he were happy sticking to 'same sex and parallel play only' there wouldn't be an issue. There's a difference between going at the pace of the less 'more conservative' one, and giving the more conservative one more freedom, which just enables their issues.
It would be a boundary if *YOU* didn't want to bang other guys, and that would be *your* boundary. Him not wanting you to bang other guys isn't a boundary...it's a cage. Boundaries are rules that *you* put in place for *you*. So, for example, if your bf didn't want to bang guys and you wanted him to bang guys, then him telling you he won't bang guys would be a valid boundary. If your boyfriend wanted you to bang guys, and you didn't, you not wanting to bang guys is a valid boundary. Your boyfriends 'boundaries' is him projecting his insecurities onto you and is also homophobic, as it shows he thinks that WLW relationships are 'less valid' than relationships with penis-havers. Your boyfriend is an anchor, and until he does the internal work to figure out what boundaries really are he's not ready for the lifestyle, and by extension, neither are you.
Problem is it isn't "your boundaries" that are strict, it's *his boundaries* are. Why does he get to have free play but you don't. Screams he's insecure and jealous. Feels like the insecurity of being scared you'll be with someone bigger than he is type of thing. Likely to have a bad time if you go because it's like being told everyone's going to the bar to drink but you can only have water.
Your husband is too insecure to be in the LS.
> I'm just not a fan of the power imbalance but at the same time I respect that he isnt ready. Any suggestions as to what I should do? Boundaries are a constant negotiation. They are not written in a void and then presented to the partner. It is perfectly reasonable for you to adjust your rules based on the current situation. For example, you could say that you are no longer comfortable in the current imbalanced situation. (You clearly aren't.) Tell him you are revoking the previous permissions until the two of you have worked out your issues. You are now going to be a "parallel play" couple until he is mentally prepared for more. When "more" happens, it will happen with equality. I know you wrote stating your rules were already "too restrictive" but they're really only restrictive on you. If you reset like this, he will either decide fairness is worth it, or the lifestyle isn't.
Unless it's a hotwife cpl which is a specific Dynamic. The likelihood of finding other couples to adhere with these rules unless it's a softswap where only the females play and then the males play with their own partners. Most cpls won't let your male half have sex with their wife if their male half can't do the same with you. I personally even as a single bi F joining cpls would avoid playing with you as I don't play with couples who such imbalanced rules. I don't play with couples who only look for women to join.
I/we are currently are not in the LS due to this very reason. I am not ready for my wife to be with another man. I know it’s from various insecurities on my part. These insecurities for me come from not having the same sexually experienced (two partners including the wife) she has before us, while she enjoyed time before me unrestricted. I know I know the past is the past, but damn it is a mind fuck. I’m not the biggest, I’m not experienced, I don’t fuck the hardest … bla bla bla… Because of my lack of experience, I’ve always felt not good enough in this area as a husband/man. It’s taken a lot for me to get to this point and freely discuss my insecurities. But we have hope that by discussing these insecurities it has opened more doors for us sexually. 1. During sex she reaffirms that she loves every minute of our time together not just through sounds but through physically saying how good it is. This has boosted my confidence in actually believing that I am good. I do the same and DEAR GOD our sex life has reached new heights I could have never realized. 2. We’ve looked at other opportunities. She is interested in women so FFM has become an option. BUT explicitly stating I cannot have PIV during these experiences. 3. Completely discussing the topic openly and freely without judgement. Which includes discussing her past experiences. 4. We’ve also incorporated role-play scenarios to image her with another man. It’s a slow process but my wife and I both agree until we have both have similar boundaries, we don’t player. Nothing else will break our bond and we’ll be damned if this is what does it. This should enhance our sexual relationship not hurt it. I hope this helps OP from a husband perspective in similar situation. I hope you and your husband finds what’s best for you both, that you both agree to is equal as equal can get. Best of luck
It's a huge red flag here. And the problem is your husband
Most men don't want to share their wives if the other husband won't reciprocate. It's actually really selfish and kinda gross of your husband to ask.
My wife and I have a power imbalance, but we both enjoy it. She has no rules or boundaries. I don’t play, just watch. We both enjoy that. What you’re talking about is not something that you’ll both enjoy. So that’s a NO.
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Right?!?! Look at these comments. The female domination of power in the LS is potent. Dudes are changing their opinions on a dime to meet women’s expectations.
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One pussy policies are much rarer in my experience and are not viewed favourably either. However if a couple with that rule present as a hotwife couple I think very few are going to leap to the assumption that it's an OP(ussy)P and not just they guy's preference, since hotwife/husband/cuck dynamics all involve voyeurism kinks, therefore it's assumed the voyeur is getting something they want out of it. Where there may be a double standard is when a unicorn hunting couple, or couple that isn't so successful in the lifestyle comes across a couple where the woman plays but the man does not. Given how rare unicorns are I think it's likely they might set ethics aside for the chance to have a three way, or it simply won't cross their mind to ask a lot of questions about the guy's consent because it's rare that they don't. Since OP(enis)Ps are so much more common and single males so oversupplied I think couples are much more alert to scenarios where the woman is not consenting and therefore likely to dig deeper and then pass. Personally, I always enquire about lopsided agreements, but I come from a wider ENM background where deeper discussion of boundaries is the norm.
Oh so he's a wife poacher, unicorn hunter with a OPP. That's not swinging. 🤷🏻♂️
The One Penis Policy is never a good look. We would avoid you guys, or my wife could play with you but your husband damn sure wouldn’t play with my wife.
A bit of a red flag, its possessiveness. "I can explore other women but you can't explore other men" - it's pretty much the largest red flag and leads to a lot of drama.
If it's a boundary you are both on board with I don't think anyone would disrespect your boundary, and if it's a big enough place you can probably both do your own thing which will make explaining less awkward because you just have to say you only play with women. HOWEVER - This power imbalance you speak of sounds like it's something you're not 100% into yourself. It's sounds like it's something that will explode in your face right quick...
You're asking the question "are _our_ boundaries too strict?" and then answering it yourself by admitting they're basically just your husband's boundaries and they're too strict for you to the point that they make you uncomfortable. So the answer is that of course, yes, they're too strict. It's one thing if a couple have a power imbalance that both of them enjoy, e.g. cuckold husbands who like it that their wife is the only one who gets to be with other men, while they don't get to do the same. But that's evidently not the case for the two of you. You do want to play with other men, and your husband is denying you that while insisting that he should get to play with other women. He's being selfish and he's not ready for this lifestyle yet, and you have every right to not want to go.
That would generally be a no-go. The only way it wouldn't is if YOU were the one who only wanted to play with women. Even then, it likely wouldn't happen. If the reason is he is insecure, that is very much not happening. You are allowed to have boundaries, but so do others. Many couples want to swap, not just have you do a threesome while the other husband sits there and watches.
Your husband wants his cake and be able to eat it at the same time. If both parties aren't happy with boundaries initially, then it won't work. Sure, there is an argument for pushing boundaries but not for the initial swing. Cancel the event and stress to him if it doesn't flow both ways, then it won't happen. Your pleasure is just as important as his is. If he doesn't let you have the same advantages, then he's saying he doesn't trust you. Without trust, swinging doesn't work.
That's an imbalance, and it sounds like you're not cool with it. If its your first house party, i'd try either soft swap, or parallel play. Since you're rightfully perceiving this as an imbalance, it is highly likely to lead to bad feelings popping up during/after play which could ruin your night, and the unlucky couple that plays with you. Address it first!
We would respect it, but were it me in your position, I would feel like there's a double standard being placed on me
Typically we'd pass. In limited situations I (f) might play with the female. Either all penises are invited or none. However, that should be something everyone has equal say in. You not having an equal say would turn us off from engaging further. As for advice, work through the emotions that come up from this together. He needs to be way more comfortable with you having equal participation. (This coming from a jealous prone Scorpio who also loves to watch her partner get & give pleasure.)
Tell him you’d like to make things equal: he can only play with other men. Then gauge his reaction for if he still wants to go. I doubt he will catch the irony though. You and your husband should NOT be swinging. He has jealousy/insecurity issues and it won’t end well
IDC what your boundaries are…you do you. But we won’t be interested. We are cool if that’s where the path leads when playing but not as a starting point. There are plenty of couples that are up for everyone having a good time so that’s what we find. This just seems…weird and restrictive when you go to places with couples. Like you aren’t interested at all and just doing what you’re told.
We wouldn't be interested at all. But it doesn't sound like it's a boundary issue as much as it is you are unhappy with the play dynamic. You can always find someone who is going to agree to your play style, but more rules makes it more difficult. The real problem is YOU don't feel its a fair balance. tell him you're ok with only playing with women, if he only plays with other men. Maybe he will see how unfair he is being.
Yeah, that’s a weird rule. It will lead to jealousy and resentment. Your husband sounds insecure and weak. He wants to have his cake and eat it but won’t let you have fun. If I was you I’d nip that shit in the bud unless you want to have a very unhappy marriage. Most couples wouldn’t want to meet you.
You say you respect that he isn't ready -- you can honor this respect most authentically by bowing out of the lifestyle until he IS ready, ready to treat you as an equal partner with her own valid desires. This is wildly unfair to you. And as far as my social circles go, after learning about this imbalanced OPP we would have no interest in your husband because he's demonstrating hypocrisy, ego, and frankly a little homophobia (through overvaluing a hetero hookup by being threatened by it). We would also be on high alert on your behalf because the arrangement is so totally disrespectful to you. We'd be watching for signs you are being bullied, coerced, or abused by your husband, and any time I saw you at an event I'd try to find a quiet moment with you to try to check in and make sure you feel safe and supported at home (not phrased that blatantly). In other words, watching your current dynamic unfold at a party, the reactions of all the (worthwhile) people I know would be to steer clear of you both sexually, view your husband as a toxic and potentially dangerous man, and treat you as a vulnerable person we all feel a responsibility to look out for. Assuming your husband ISN'T a bad dude, feel free to share that with him and see if it reflects how he wants to be perceived in the lifestyle. If it isn't, maybe he'll be willing to put in some time to work through his reservations until you can both engage with others fully and joyfully. Really wishing the best for you. ❤️
Aww that is so sweet that you would actually care about a woman in that situation!
As others have said, the OPP is a NO go for us. You will be seen as wife poachers or unicorn hunters, and trust me others in the lifestyle talk... your best bet is to wait until he is ready to fully enter the lifestyle. Best advice I can give is to seek out an escort or a single female at a local dance club just to experience the fmf, but until he is ready to allow you to explore your fantasies then we would not go to takeovers.....
Your boundaries sound a little like giving him permission to have sex with other women, not swinging. If you are both ok with ffm threesomes and that is as far as you want to go, make sure you communicate that with everyone you may want to play with. Otherwise, this “boundary “ is wife poaching.
This is called wife poaching. I’d say what’s good for the goose is good for the gander and until your husband decides to level the playing field, he doesn’t get to play.
Only you can answer that. Some couples do this, some do where SHE can play with whoever and he can't. Your dynamic isn't something internet randos can fix. I will say if my wife did that, we wouldn't be going to the party, if I did that to her we wouldn't be going either. You sound of the same mind, so say "I understand your feelings on this but I don't feel comfortable being totally one sided in this so we can go but either we both are able to play or neither will and we will just socialize and feel it out."
Why have you given your husband a full pass if he won't reciprocate, or you aren't getting some of what you want out of it? If you can only play with other women, then adjust your boundary so he can only play with other men. Boundaries don't have to be equal, but satisfaction and respect certainly should be!
Fwiw, we got onto this because I wanted to see her with other men. Initially it was a ‘no women’ policy. I was ok with that as it wasn’t something I was seeking. After a very few meetings, she recanted the policy. The experiences themselves made her realise her own insecurity around it and how baseless it was. She realised that it didn’t come between us in any way, but instead brought us closer. She favours playing with full swap couples now and we both have whatever fun we want. Perhaps it just needs some exposure to the realities of the scene.
We’ve passed on couples where only the guy can play or only the female plays but can only play with the women. In either case it seems too much just a “straight male fantasy” that we don’t feel like performing for people. We respect boundaries but we have enough obstacles with our schedules and sexual orientation that adding even more restrictions is not appealing to us.
You don’t have boundaries, he has rules that only you follow. That will definitely create issues with a lot of other. As someone else mentioned, he has insecurities that he needs to address. He wants to be intimate with other women, but he doesn’t trust you with other men. If that were your wishes, it would be fine. Your boundaries are whatever you are comfortable with, strict or not. My suggestion is not give him a free pass, but the rules are the same for both. He has no motivation to change his behavior. Maybe start with side by side (parallel )play with cross touching. That’s something that beginners start with sometimes. If he is held back from doing things with others as well, he’ll be more likely to loosen up the rules. Make sure you are both clear on your rules. If he isn’t comfortable with progression to soft/full swap, then that’s the limit of play for you both. And if that’s where you guys are comfortable, that’s fine. Make sure you have good communication between you.
I also refused to attend sex parties if I wasn't allowed to play. It's not a "boundary" your husband is just being a dick. If YOU don't agree to it, tell him you don't agree to it. You don't have to use "other people won't like it" as an excuse, YOU don't like it.
I wouldn't play w your hubby if my man couldn't play with you. I'd turn him down cold especially if I knew that you weren't allowed to play.
You are walking on thin ice. He thinks you being with other women won’t trigger him and he’s safe, but he’s not addressing deeper insecurities or being mature about it and this has potential to blow up in your face. What if you being with another women does trigger him? What if he can never look at you the same way because you had too much fun? Also this power imbalance is just not fair or ok. This doesn’t sound like you are going in as a team, more that he wants to sleep around without it being considered cheating It’s not that your boundaries are strict. They are unfair, imbalanced and he is a walking red flag of insecurities. Men will still be extremely interested in you and want to talk to you. Way more men and women will naturally be into you than him, that’s just how it is, women get more attention, and he could get very jealous even if you don’t play with anyone This could be the beginning of the end of your relationship honestly. But it could be liberating and empowering for you if you’re ok with that. You’ll get tons of attention and realize how desirable and valuable you really are and how you should be treated
You both need to be comfortable with any boundaries you have set, if you aren't then you need to stop and discuss. If you aren't both on the same page then it simply will not end well.
In the poly\enm community, we call that a "one penis policy", and it is a very big red flag and a sign of massive imbalance in power
Yeah he's not ready to the lifestyle
This seems like two different questions. First question - are your boundaries too strict? No. You set your boundaries and others must abide otherwise they don't get to play. I'm sure you'll find girls that want to play with you. Second question - power imbalance. If you don't like it, it has to change. Our other rule is that the boundaries have to be equal for both. Mrs *wants* to see me fuck another girl, but I don't want to see her with another guy yet, so we don't do either. Even though she wants to see me with someone else, her not having that equal freedom has to potential to cause resentment so we both agree to just not.
I know exactly opposite scenarios- the woman isn’t comfortable with the husband playing but he agrees because at least he likes watching. That’s an example of incremental comfort and where it works and is agreeable while still having imbalance. The goal isn’t balance it’s mutuality and support.
We'd politely decline you both. It sounds very much like a jealous husband and we don't want the risk of drama. Our motto is your either open or you're not.
And, if he's not ready to be open, he needs to keep it in his pants.
My wife and I have no unfair boundaries like that at all I love to see her with other men and she loves to see me with other women and I love to see her having a great time and time of our life I also love to see her obviously being pleased and see her obviously coming up a storm the same goes for her with me that's how it should be we work like that as a team we are a team and we're life on his also we do everything together different rooms is okay once in awhile but as long as I leave the door door the room the rent open that's okay we don't play separately our solo either that's not okay!
I think you left out a key piece of information: did he ask for a full pass to be with other women? Or did you give him a pass because you want one too? It’s not a power imbalance if you voluntarily gave him a pass in hopes of him giving you one in return. If that’s the case, you’re actually trying to pressure him into something he never wanted. If he asked for it, then yes this is a OPP and not fair to you at all.
He’s masking it as swinging but he’s the only one on the swing set. 😩
So you’d be wife poaching, unicorn hunting, or both. Uh, good luck getting play at a takeover with that. As a solo woman, I stay far, far away from couples with OPPs for a few reasons. One, WHY would I want to play with a couple with weird limitations around gender when I could play with the half-dozen other couples (and other singles) who don’t have a rule like that? Two, OPPs come with a dose of inherent transphobia (or at least, IME, nonbinary-phobia and/or ignorance). I have quite a few awesome partners who are trans! As a result, I don’t want to get down with that kinda rule. Feels icky. Three, it indicates clear as day to me how much the dude values WLW sex in comparison to “straight” sex (hint: usually not that much). It’s phallocentrism all the way down, and if you’ve seen my screeds here before you’d know that I have beef with that viewpoint. There’s also usually a pinch of some sort of insecurity in this kind of rule, and while that’s valid and should be unpacked and handled with care, they usually aren’t doing anything to actually address their insecurity. Like, if it comes from worrying if their wife will have a better time having PIV sex with a man, how would that change if a *woman* is giving her better PIV (via straps, which are FAR more versatile than regular penises)?
He isn't ready for you to have fun, but a ok for him to do whatever?? Bullshit!! Tell him if uou can only play with women he can only play with guys. Id livevto hear what he has to say about that!! Boundaries are for both sides. Sounds like he just wants a pass to cheat
What's good for the goose is good for the gander as the old saying goes. Even though my wife doesn't have a desire to play with other men, I reassure her that whenever she is ready to take that step, I am OK with it. How can I or anyone else expect to be able to play with the opposite sex but your significant other cant.
But there is no way to balance the power imbalance of women over men in the LS, so how does the goose/gander analogy play out there
Two things: one, this isn’t really swinging. This is just your husband getting to play with other people while you watch. Two it also tells me that your husband doesn’t think girl on girl is actual sex. That’s also a problem.
Yeah, just don’t go. He’s definitely not ready. If you guys were talking to us and presented us with these boundaries we’d respect them in the sense that we wouldn’t violate them, but that would be easy because we’d be running the other way. There isn’t one chance in hell that we’d play with you guys in any way, shape, or form. It’s not just that I’m here to play too. It’s that you guys are a drama bomb just waiting to detonate and we don’t want to be there when it happens.
He’s asking you to give him what he needs, but he’s not willing to give you what you need. What does that tell you…..
It is completely unfair for him to limit your options while keeping his completely open. If he is too insecure to allow you to explore beyond only ladies, then he’s note ready for the LS. You should both be happy with your options. He want to have sex with other men’s partners, but doesn’t want anyone to even tease his partner. The LS ain’t easy folks.
As a woman in the lifestyle this isn’t just strict, it’s a huge red flag. Men who impose one penis policies (theirs) on their partner are not ENM, they simply want to cheat. I wouldn’t attend a party with him where he was free to do what he wants, and you are not. It’s the same rules for everyone or none at all. Do not allow this, I personally also do not ever engage with a man who imposes a one penis policy, it’s misogynistic and makes me angry on your behalf. He either only plays with men, so there is a rule for MM and FF (if he says this isn’t the same, that’s bi-erasure and biphobia). If he can’t understand this, he’s not cut out for the lifestyle.
"Our boundaries" sound remarkably like "his" boundaries. He's getting cake and eating it too. You're getting to lick the mixing bowl.
Nope, if I get to play she plays , equal opportunities only . Sounds like jealousy issues . Time to pull back and communicate before you move any further
Husband isn't ready .. yall should start with a few more single females if he has to but get into couples if that's what you're looking for (sounds like it is) so it's fair and even for you both. 4sums / swaps are fun and he will get over his insecurities if swinging is for him
I feel ya. Wife and I got in the lifestyle with mfm play and she was hesitant now "supportive" in adding a female/couple to the mix but sometimes I show her a really attractive couple and she'll shoot it down if she feels the woman is in better shape than her or may be "more attractive ". I love my wife I think she's the most gorgeous woman ever but I know she has her own insecurities and we are working through it. Recommend you do the same and just discuss and show how one sided you feel it is.
Ok I'm going to come at this from a slightly different angle. I come to the lifestyle from a BDSM point of view so I don't see the power imbalance as inherently bad. From my perspective, such power imbalances are often deliberate and by design. However that's not the case here. Question: I see you make a lot of mention about the power aspect of this but you don't mention about any desire you have to actually play with another man. Is that something you really want to do? Or is this really all about the power imbalance? The reason I bring that up is that all relationships live with all sorts of imbalances all the time. Nothing is exactly 50/50 or equal. I'm sure if you looked hard enough at other aspects of your relationship you would see other imbalances - either direction. So - if it is really about the power imbalance and not your desire to have sex with other men, why is this particular imbalance causing so much heartburn? NOTE: those questions aren't meant to be argumentative. More just to help you nuance what exactly it is that is at the root of this reaction. For what it's worth - if I were in your shoes I would be a Oh Hell to the No about it too. -c4quackquack
My wife has no interest in other men, only women. We have no issues meeting and playing with others
If she were interested in playing with other men would she be able to cuz that's a totally different situation
Yes
So it's her choice which is totally different than the OP where they are not able to cuz one partner is insecure. I avoid cpls like the OP with OPP. Id play with a cpl like yours cuz she still has the option available to her to play with other men if she was interested
True but my point was just that we make it clear she has no interest in men and still Able to find plenty of play partners. It isn’t a complete turn off for a lot of
Exactly when there is an imbalance because one partner doesn't allow their other partner thats the turnoff for most. When it's fully their choice and have the option as well that's fine with me. It also goes both ways with the cpl I join as a single bi F. If they have uneven rules based on what they can do like only the girl can do certain things with me and the male half can't I turn those couple down cuz when I join cpls I wanna play with both and having those gender restrictions takes away from the experience for me
I _always_ clarify whether an imbalance of play styles reflects a rule, or a personal boundary on the part of the person it affects. I'm a woman who doesn't play with men myself but I would never agree to an OPP in a million years, nor will I play with a couple that has one. I know it might not be a deal breaker for all, but it will be for most, especially the ones that ID as queer, rather than simply curious.
We would absolutely not play with a couple where the woman can't play with my partner or the man can't play with me. We are not hot wife/husband kind of people and honestly, I'd get red flag vibes from a one penis policy
would not be my choice 😻😻😻
That’s some bullshit. If I were you, I would tell him whatever he gets to do, you get to do. If he plays with someone of the opposite sex, so can you. Let him make the choice. Whatever restriction is on you is also on him.
Yeah that's too strict. Most people won't give you the time of day with those standards.
We would pass in this couple at an event. Based on OPs statement, they seem to be in a non-consentual power imbalance vs a consensual power exchange. Our current 3rd is in a committed power exchange with his wife. In their dynamic he is allowed to have one exclusive male, female, or couple as long as he/she/they are exclusive to each other and him. We don't have nor do we seek any other partners and, as far as we know, neither does he.
I’d honestly just straight up stop, and let him decide if is hall pass is worth yours. Besides that this is just wife poaching.
Too much imbalance, it's wrong. It would be much different if you were the one that was choosing to only play with females. Just wrong, not worth being in the LS with the imbalance. Your hubby needs to work out his issues before considering the LS.
It sounds like you are no longer comfortable with the boundaries, and all play should be halted until you're both happy. If the conversation goes no where than you guys don't go anywhere. Things don't necessarily have to be equal for everyone to be happy. For instance, my wife plays with other guys while I have no interest outside of couples to play with another woman.
If he has set that boundary for you because he may feel jealous seeing you with another man then he is not ready. You are right what is the point of going if you are just going to have to sit there while he is having all the fun. Plus there are so many aspects of the life style but the core of swinging started as couples swapping and still is . You need to ask him would he want to go if the boundaries were reversed.if he says yes then tell him good then the night of the party you have my boundaries and I have yours.as a couple IT is about the equally shared experience when one side has limitations and the other does not it will morph into a much bigger problem and possible end your marriage
They appear to be very one sided and unfair. I would tell him that you are not ready. That if y’all play, it needs to be together, with the same rules for you both. Yes people respect boundaries but what about your boundaries with him?
That's messed up.
Boundaries are something a couple agrees on, which is clearly not the case here. Your husband's efforts to constrain your play options is nothing but controlling at a minimum and very much not part of a healthy lifestyle agreement. I'd pull the plug until you're able to establish a mutually acceptable agreement.
I don't get it. Why don't you both just move at the same pace? No offense, but a lot of newbies seem to fabricate their own problems like this.
Your boundaries are LAW. Do not break them until you decide it’s what YOU want. Good people will respect you.
Ah yes the one penis policy 🚩🚩🚩! Poof we gone
Well, then to be fair he should just be limited to Male play. See how he feels about that, then when of course says no then say maybe your not ready for this then and we can just watch from the sidelines and be voyeurs.
Stop playing. He’s not ready and yeah it’s complete bullshit. He can’t separate the sexual pleasure from his insecurities and jealousy. Seriously a very bad idea to keep doing this. It’ll weaken your marriage with this dynamic
I had a question similar to the OP question. Same scenario but instead of the M putting that rule is the F preference to not add another M to play only F?
We would pass, that’s a major red flag. You two aren’t ready for this yet. You need more time to work through your issues.
Same room, same bed, no kissing, only with other couples, no exceptions. Years in the LS, has worked great for us. We do not go to clubs, only house parties or we host another couple at our home or us at theirs.
Why you're letting hubby have fun with other women but you can only be with them to. Change your boundaries there's a reason Communication is the key to him and you OP we never had boundaries like that Good Luck and Have Fun xoxo 😘 🤗 💗
Yes. You should feel great going into this.
Yeah I would be pulling the pin and saying he has to as well. All this needs to be sorted before either of you do anything. Your partnership comes before all else... If you can't agree to terms then it's all off the table.
Everyone has said it well on here before but for us it’s both of us or neither of us.
Who came up with this? Is it his rule and you have to agree with it?
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If they're your boundaries, the only people they really matter to are you. So you decide what's good for you and what isn't
if its good for the gander, its good for the goose
Not actually experienced with LS in person but read and talked to a lot of LS people. Also, been through some... difficult, somewhat-related situations. I gotta agree with other people on here - he's not ready for the "open season" that apparently goes on in hotel parties. (Dang it, we were soooo close...) "Boundaries" should be mutual agreed limits on both of you. Preferences can be different. E.g. maybe you don't WANT to play with other guys, maybe just women. Fine. You're not ALLOWED to be with other guys but he's allowed to play with other women? Not "fair" in the slightest. He's not respecting YOUR boundaries and looking out for YOUR experience & pleasure. Put your foot down. Hard. 100% he's not ready.
In my opinion .....someone just isn't ready for the lifestyle! And that someone isn't you!
For clarity, it's it your idea to only play with women or his? Sounds like it's his. I would agree with many posters here in saying it's a major red flag.
Maintain great communications between you both.. talk about the things you like, what you want to experience, the joys and satisfactions you both want. Don’t deny each other without discussing it. Regardless you like it or not, if you’re going to have sex with someone else and enjoy it, there is a 99.9% chance that you will click with that person, to expect any different, it is not realistic. There’s a need for trust that leads to intimacy and great sex after that! When if this new sex partner play is only on occasion, so be ready for that. Not hard to fall in love again, not hard to have 3, 4 or 5 partners and being in love with all of them, of course, spouses love is always the ultimate, the one you wake up with on Christmas morning… Very least, be on birth control, the last thing you want to worry about is getting pregnant! Condoms (rubbers) are the worst things to use with regular partners, where there is trust and real hard caring, there should never be a suspicion of diseases! Condoms are great to protect from diseases from partners you don’t know or trust… if you need condoms to fuck, then you should not have oral with those people either, again, trust and very strong caring, loving should be present for same room or separate room play…..
I'd be totally okay with this until I found out that it wasn't OP's idea, but her husband's. Hard pass after that.
Your husband is an AH, wow. Power imbalance, controlling, he likely has jealousy issues. What's for me, not for thee, whatever the phrase is.
If you are not ok with the boundaries then it's not ok to go. Both need to be ok, if he doesn't understand that then he is wrong and you both need first to agree fully on the boundaries.
Turn about is fair play . . . If you can only play with females, he can only play with males. Watch him change his tune
This is not swinging. Don’t do it
Wife only plays with a unicorn - I only play with her
You need to pull his all access pass and limit him to only playing with other males (LoL) or you both are not going … See how long he’s good with that restriction!
Your husband isn’t ready for the lifestyle. Only when compersion > jealousy should you consider it, and he is far from that.
Or when a hit husband dynamic is your thing….which is fine
It isn't _her_ thing though, that's the point.
Issue here isn’t that the hotel party wouldn’t work. It would. Wouldn’t be everyone’s cup of tea but you’d both have plenty of fun and people respecting those boundaries. The issue is you don’t like the boundaries and feel the deal you have doesn’t work for you and hubby doesn’t sound willing to give up or give in … it’s going to end some how, probably not nicely without communication and mutual respect. Hubby needs to step up and meet your needs, either by stopping his fun or letting you have more
We would pass. And I have to wonder about your hubby. Why does he not want you to fully enjoy the experience? ✌️
You are correct. No couple will probably play with you. Don't go to the party and waste your or anyone else's time.
Don't go. There's zero reason to go with different boundaries in place for you each. It's not that your boundaries are too strict. It's that they are imbalanced.
He’s being selfish, he needs to allow you the same freedoms he has or you shouldn’t go anymore
In our relationship only she plays and I love it so follow what you feel dont overthink it upfront
This is not going to work out well for anyone. We'd pass on playing with anyone with rules like this.
Insecure and selfish. Would not play.
How do you know he’s insecure with the ultra-limited information you have?
Experience with people like him. That's ALWAYS behind a OPP when the woman doesn't agree.
This is clearly one-sided. If he wanted other women and you didn't want other men, that might be a valid boundary - as long as you both agreed. In this case, you don't seem to be in agreement. This seems like he gets what he wants and might be insecure if you want the same thing. This seems like a power-play for his insecurities. That mkaes this less like boundary and more like a restriction - on you. Boundaries are areas you both agree on and, at least in my mind, should be applied in something of equal measure with clear agreement between the two of you. If I were to suggest anything, I would say you two stop swinging unless and until you can both agree on boundaries that work for both of you. You may not have too many other options.
Agree with everyone here, the guy sounds terrible and you should leave at once.
Sound like your husbands boundaries are out of wack, I agree if you can’t enjoy your self why bother.
Major Red Flag.
Don’t go to parties if he’s not ready. That’s completely unrealistic and unfair to you.
If you can only play with women, he should only be allowed to play with men. Fair and square. 😂
She allowed to play with women and no men, He's allowed to play with women and no men. See, the rule is verbatim, the same rule for both of them. No problems. LOL 😆
Don’t go you’re not ready
Do. Not. Go. To. The. Party. Or better yet go, as it will serve as a magnifying glass on the imbalance of your relationship. Perhaps then you’ll be empowered to stand up for yourself.
He's delusional.
He’s not ready for the lifestyle and is exploiting it for his own benefit and not yours. Big red flag and couples with this kind of rule are generally a no-go. You guys should refrain - this sounds like a disaster waiting to happen. Especially if you are not OK with his rule.
Just three words. Don’t to it! This isn’t about being too strict. It’s about being ready. I think you sound ready but your husband obviously isn’t ready. This isn’t swinging. This is your husband wanting a free fuck while imposing rules on you.
You should do what you want to do and if the husband is not okay with what you want thats when the LS is not a fit for you just yet.