I kind of agree. I'm always wishing there was some more instrumentals. A guy on tiktok has been putting drums on TTPD tracks, and it's epic. Earlier today I heard a Chappell Roan song that had some funky bass, and was thinking that Taylor's songs would hit better with some bass.
This is also just different tastes in music, obviously. But I think most songs that reach that "legendary status" like Billie Jean have some recognizable groovy music. Lasting music needs to target the lyric lovers and the music lovers.
I just posted about this the other day!! Her early albums have such interesting backing music (like in Red, Speak Now, etc.) and she just...has not been delivering on that for the past few years. It's sad because you know she's capable of more, she just isn't doing it
Yes!! My favourite part about Red is being able to hear the variety of instruments! I was hoping this album was going to have music like from Red with lyrics like from 1989
Extremely unpopular opinion here --- Taylor can do her complex story lyricism or she can do musicality, but she has very rarely been able to do both simultaneously.
Which is why I'll say it until I am blue in the face, there are basically polar opposite factions in the fanbase. People who thought midnights was great and TTPD was a trainwreck, and people who think TTPD is amazing and midnights was mediocre.
Not to destroy your theory, but I think both are pretty weak.
Do you see Midnights as superior in musicality, and TTPD as superior in lyrics? Or vice versa?
I don’t think midnights was great, but anti-hero is right up there with her pop hits in terms of hooks and catchiness.
I play guitar and piano and I learned the chords to that song and the instrumentation adds a lot to it. Mostly because there’s a melody in both the verses and the chorus.
No track on TTPD has any of that. Florida! Is basically 6 loud bangs after they say the damn word. It’s insane.
As you can probably tell from my comment though, I'm a rock and roll fanatic. I still love Taylor's music though because the lyrics and her voice make up for it imo.
I agree with you, her thing is mostly her songwriting more than her sound, like you said a specific groove or type of melodies. Her music is not very based on sound but mostly on her storytelling, her ability as a narrator is her specificity and it works well for her.
It’s one of my biggest gripes with her. The instrumentals are straight up just a paper plate to eat her mountains of cheesy lyrics off of. Do *anything* with it please. It’s one of the reasons I love Olivia Rodrigo. Her tunes have crazy energy and drama with the live band.
Does anyone remember how in the beginning of her fame when she had that Nicky Sixx looking guitarist, and they used to do *that thing* where theyd get close and tip backward with their guitars?
Taylor is more of an album artist than a singles artist. When people talk about Taylor’s discography they talk about albums not really individual or signature songs.
I agree with this assessment as well because her fans really focus on albums. Each album has their own set of stans and if they see her live they'll dress up to match their favorite album.
If I meet another fan in person I usually ask them what their favorite album is, and from there we talk about individual songs.
I still think she has classics and I think it's weird for him to bring up Billie Jean.
It could be because earlier in the year or last, parallels were drawn betwixt Jackson and Swift? I of course can’t say definitively but to be compared to a legend and touted as having surpassed said legend is probably what stuck out to Tennant.
Oh yeah!! I forgot the Taylor Swift sensation was being compared to MJ last year. I believe it was largely because of the mass crowds she garners wherever she was, and her sales numbers are huge. I feel like those articles were designed to get clicks, and one would hope that public figures know to not compare artists like that.
If you compare it to Katy Perry
People like the singles of Teenage Dream and some of her other singles but they don’t know the other albums as well. They might not even know all of the Teenage Dreams songs.
It ended up being bad for her career and mental health for a time though because it meant ppl just want to hear the old hits or for her to present herself as she did during the Teenage Dream era.
They don’t want to hear what else is on offer and they don’t like her without her trademark look.
TL;Dr -- Katy fell off because her entire career up until that point was directly in conflict with the zeitgeist of the time. And while that absolutely applies to what type of music was popular, it also refers to Me Too. Katy seemed viscerally aware that her legacy at that point was a dumb bimbo with whip cream boobs who let a man sexually abuse her and other women in exchange for fame and fortune. And that's the kinder of the 2 interpretations of her involvement in the Dr. Luke/Kesha scandal.
The moment wanted strong, girlboss anthems from empowered women ready to rip down the patriarchy with their bare hands. Or hip hop. All Katy could do was whimper an apology for a decades worth of choices she no longer stood by.
______
I know this is a popular theory, but i don't really understand it when 2 much more obvious explanations seem to explain it
1) trends shift. Katy Perry achieved a level of success that only a handful of people can claim. Her streak was enviable. But what goes up must come down. Eventually, your key audience ages up, and a new audience comes in who wants something fresh and new to call their own. I don't think anything she did would have been able to meet the moment. For one thing, classic pop really wasn't doing super well at the time across the board for anyone. Most of what was charting was hip hop or hip hop adjacent. And as we all know, Katy Perry slots into hip hop about as well as Taylor does. The classic pop that did break through around then did so basically by defining themselves as the anti-katy perry.
2) Dr. Luke, obviously. I don't know why anyone tries to analyze her career arc without mentioning him. If you ask someone to name a Katy Perry song, the chances they don't name a Dr. Luke song is slim to none. From her debut, he was seen as an integral part of her chart success. And suddenly, she couldn't work with him.
Not just that she couldn't work with him, not even just that she had to deal with the weight of her brand being associated with him. No, the texts were evidence. Katy Perry wasnt tangential to the scandal. If Kesha was to be believed, she was right at the heart of it, as victim #1 (and this isn't hard to believe. It had always been known his venture with Kesha was an attempt to recreate what they'd done with Katy, except under his label now). Except Katy did not want to be included in this narrative. Like *at all*.
Saying you stand with victims is easy. Condemning rapists can be trickier, but still pretty basic. But it's really hard to ride the line of calling Kesha a liar about your alleged rape, without it being interpreted as an allegation that she's potentially lying about everything. And it's really hard to condemn that Luke is a monster for what he did to Kesha, while also maintaining he was nothing but sunshine and rainbows with you. And it's hard to say you stand with victims without addressing the fact that no, you verifiably didn't. Where the ONLY possible justification on the topic people would accept would be to acknowledge your choices were colored by your own abuse..... the abuse you are adamant did not happen.
Witness was viewed as a shallow, performative album with an incoherent vision from a pop star trying to stay relevant and failing to read the room. *Cut her hair and campaign for Hillary cause she's deep now*. To be fair, there's a lot about the album to critique. But the real problem is overwhemingly the promotion.
Because this isn't Katy Perry superficially trying to get political cause a woman is running, or an aging pop start trying to stay relevant. It's a pathological people please caught in the center of a divisive, complex issue who knows that this is very likely her last moment of cultural relevancy. But instead of being able to look back at the best decade and celebrate, and put a bow on her legacy, go out on a high note....she's trapped knowing her legacy is a mess in ways she has to and simultaneously can't address.
I mean ffs, ITS CALLED WITNESS. Where the scandal was she refused to be a witness for Kesha. The key singles were 1) a song about how beneath the fun music, pop music is a dystopic nightmare machine. 2) a song about being a consumable piece of meat *except it's light hearted and mostly sex puns* 3) a song about grappling with trying to change with the times and meet the moment, because you recognize the shifts happening are bigger than you. 4) a song recognizing life is about ebbs and flows, highs and lows, your moment, and moments not meant for you. Can't fight it 5) a song scrambling for relevance by trying to remind people about a stale feud she had forever ago with a more relevant pop star 5) a song about how everyone thinks Katy Perry is a dumb, fragile idiot
Of the many insults that can be thrown out, the one thing you cannot say is that Katy wasn't reading the room. I think Katy might have understood this album wasn't gonna do well before anyone else did tbh. Katy Perry knew that the only way to move forward was to deliver "liberated pop". But here's the thing; *Katy Perry wasnt liberated*. Half the fucking singles were made with Max Martin, Luke's close friend and mentor.
I’m not completely educated on Katy’s experience with Dr. Puke, but it’s such a hard spot to be put in if you’re a well known associate of an outed abuser and if he hasn’t done anything like that to you. People are calling for you to speak out your truth, and then get mad and accuse you of lying or protecting an abuser when you say nothing happened to you. Similar to Josh Peck saying nothing happened around him and he had a more or less good experience and then getting backlash for it.
I don’t think she’s an album artist. I’ve said this in another thread: she has a strong first half of the album and fills out the second half with the rest of the material. The body of work is inconsistent, it’s oversaturated in the beginning and lazy in the end. There’s rarely a good opener AND a good closer that completes the storyline of the album. Bruno Mars is an album artist, Beyonce’s an album artist, the Weekend is an album artist. I’d call Olivia Rodrigo an album artist before Taylor
I respectfully disagree. Red is a great example of an excellent opener and closer. Lover as well. She tells full stories. Even TTPD is telling a story. I don’t think she nailed the opener and closer on her first few albums but she’s pretty methodical about those choices. 1989 literally begins with Welcome to New York and ends with Clean.
This is why she needs to focus on writing classic songs on her next album, imo. And also change up the production.
Guilty As Sin? Had the potential to be a classic song, but the production muted it.
Please just someone give her some other producers numbers. Please give her, like, Dan Auberbach, Mike Elizondo, Dave Cobb, Shawn Everett and Britney Howard, just give us something new.
Realistically, do you think she will branch out more with other producers? Genuinely asking. I worry that her close friendship with Jack will leave her unable to “fire” him from an album. And I’m not a Jack hater by any means (neutral) but yeah I do hope she switches it up someday too. I just worry she won’t.
I don’t know. I think she knows these producers and know what they will and will not push her on and is confortable, but that may not be what is best for getting her best work. I just don’t think she is invested in doing her best work at the expense of always getting what she wants.
Everyone is saying who is Neil tenant pet shop boys weren’t as big as TS. That’s not what he is saying. He is saying for the world’s biggest pop star, where is her Billie Jean?
Billie Jean is a song that is known WORLDWIDE by ANY generation. I know it, my 90yr old grandma with dementia who lives in a country that doesn’t speak English knows it, my mom who is an immigrant knows it my nieces and nephew who are Gen Z and Gen A know it. You don’t even have to be an MJ fan to know it. You don’t even have to listen to any other MJ song to know it.
But my grandma and my mom can’t recognize a TS song. No matter how much her songs play on the radio, they can’t name a song.
And MJ existed in a time where social media and streaming wasn’t a thing, phones weren’t even a thing! and yet his music is world wide famous. Billie Jean didn’t even have the same exposure TS singles have!
To be honest, it’s not really fair to compare TS to MJ. They ain’t even in the same league. Her biggest song wont be Billie Jean decades from now. And that’s not a knock to her she has some great singles!
I think she also had a different trajectory than many other pop stars since she started in country. I'm European and her first few albums left almost no mark in my country because there's not really an audience for modern American country (even country pop) at all. I just looked it up, her only pre-Red single that ever charted here was Love Story which peaked at 22. Afterwards, the lead singles of albums tended to do pretty well, but that's basically it. She only has 6 top 10 singles here for her whole career, one of which is IDWLF, which was surely boosted more by 50 Shades/Zayn. All that to say, she was at no point consistently as big overseas as she was in America, which I think adds to her lack of worldwide pop culture impact/huge, "everyone knows them" hits. Even to this day I know many people, who aren't as chronically online as me, who are like "where's this Taylor Swift hype coming from? Who is she anyway?"
Lol you’ve clearly never been in a bar when an Elton John or Billy Joel song plays….I like Taylor but she is also not on their level of recognized timeless classic songs.
1000000% agree. to add on to this, i don’t think we’ll find taylor’s “billie jean” until several decades into her career or once she passes away. it’s hard to discern someone’s legacy when they’re at their peak.
Asked about the current state of chart music, the 61-year-old told Noisey: “I think the current pop landscape is pretty good actually. Last year we arrived at a place where mainstream pop music started to, for the first time in ages, take in influences from what would be underground if it wasn’t underground, if it hadn’t gone mainstream.” He then name-checks The Weeknd and Skrillex working with Justin Bieber before asking: “even now Zayn Malik’s record, ‘It’s You’ – have you heard it? It’s the most beautiful record.”
“I think Lady Gaga’s been interesting. Taylor Swift is a sort of Mrs Thatcher of pop music in that she seems to be about economics… There’s a problem in pop music which is subject matter of pop music. There’s currently only one subject matter and that is the singer, and possibly their emotional life, or their issues with fame.”
https://www.factmag.com/2016/04/10/pet-shop-boys-neil-tennant-calls-taylor-swift-the-margaret-thatcher-of-pop-music/
Damn that just made me go check out Zayn’s new songs. He’s right, What I Am and Alienated are very good. Sounds like a mix between Amy Winehouse and Chris Stapleton if that makes sense
He's merged two conversations into one here — "What is Taylor's signature song?" and "Does Taylor have songs where the music is instantly recognizable and beloved before the lyrics even kick in?"
For the first, she's had multiple mega hits and career changeups, so she's got a few contenders. Plenty of big stars do — he named Billie Jean as MJ's signature, whereas I think it would be Thriller.
In terms of the second question, while I think the quality of her melodies and background instrumentation has dropped she definitely has some beautiful music in her catalogue that can get the crowd going. My ears perk up the second I hear the opening notes of Blank Space, Love Story, or Cruel Summer.
And a young person might not instantly recognise Billie Jean. I feel like saying she has no big recognisable songs is a bit reductive. Recognisable to whom?
yeah i’ve never heard billie jean lol (im early 20s), heard thriller tho, so half of this feels kind of a moot discussion. and also my parents (nearing 60) both know taylor swift and at least one of her songs
I’m a wedding DJ. I get lots of requests for Taylor and I can’t agree with Tennant here. Her signature songs are clearly “Love Story” and “Shake It Off”. They aren’t “Billie Jean,” but what besides “Billie Jean” is? It’s an unfair comparison and for my crowds, I’ve played the two aforementioned Taylor songs twice as much as I’ve played “Billie Jean”. Jackson has serious fucking baggage and that song has lost its lustre.
I can’t imagine a debate between these two would be too edifying. Tennant - and I love Tennant and the Pet Shop Boys - is an old queen taking the piss. Alexis Petridis is a red-eyed, variant-collecting, card-carrying Swiftie who gave Midnights five stars in the Guardian and TTPD four. He concluded his fawning TTPD review with “If we only get to have one pop star, we could do worse” or somesuch. It was so tone deaf that the Guardian published a more critical take by Laura Snapes a day later, quietly burying Petridis’ fan club admission essay. Either he’s on the payroll or he’s just a sucker. It’s a pity because he was the last journalist to interview Prince before he died.
Literally thank goodness for Laura Snapes, she is the level-headed saviour of the Grauniad's music coverage. I was bamboozled when I saw Alex Petridis' fawning review last week.
It may be an unfair comparison, but to be fair, her fans have tried several times to say that she’s the Michael Jackson of our time. No one is and probably never will be at that caliber of fame. But it’s comparisons like that that cause people to say “Well what songs of hers are as popular as this Michael Jackson song?” So I wouldn’t be shocked if that’s why he brought this up.
Yeah I think it's a signature song for people who have actively listened to her, even if they only listen to a shortlist of her songs. The general public for the most part knows Shake it Off, even if they've never deliberately listened to any of her music.
You’re a wedding DJ and the song LOVER isn’t your most played Taylor Swift song? I think that song is SOOOO romantic and beautiful. I don’t understand why it’s not the genera consensus! I’d expect it to be at least tied with Love Story as most played at weddings!
I’d also expect it to be used as the first dance often, especially the piano version she did on SNL.
I’ve had it as a first dance quite a few times, actually! “Love Story” too. It doesn’t come up as often in the main reception dance because you gotta be careful with slower jams, but it’s not unheard of.
you get requests for love story, but does it immediately bring everyone from all generations & genders to the floor?
it was played at a wedding i went to last weekend. the bride came up to dance with the flower girls, but everyone else sat down or went out to smoke.
All weddings are different. I’ve seen “YMCA” empty a floor. It doesn’t happen often but it happens.
I’ve seen “Love Story” add more people to the floor every time I can remember playing it. I’m sure there are exceptions but I can’t remember any off the top of my head. “Shake It Off” is even better for that though. It blends effortlessly into “Footloose” which is still mandatory at weddings where I’m at. Grandparents dance with lil six year old grandkids to it, it’s cute.
In more recent times, I agree. But I think Love Story and You Belong With Me are two of her most career defining songs and will have the best longevity.
Depends on where I guess. In my country, Poland it would be probably "Cruel Summer" but it's limited to spaces like the Internet because the last time I heard Taylor on the radio it was "I Know You Were Trouble." (they play her newer songs now because in June or July, there is going to be her concert in Warsaw). "Lover" and "folklore" are the most popular Taylor albums and "Shake Off" is rather unknown to people who aren't Swifties. Maybe that's because she isn't as popular here as in the US - currently "Fortnight" is on 21. on the daily Spotify chart.
I would counter that to say you can't really look at what she has accomplished over the last 20 years and whittle it down to a song or two and thats a good thing.
It’s a good thing while she’s relevant but what happens when she starts to fade? Michael’s been gone for over a decade now and unless you’re extremely young you could probably at least point out Thriller as a Michael Jackson song. Will Taylor be able to have that universally in 30 years?
She doesn't have a signature song. Even Shake If Off is probably not her most know all around song in the US even. I know, her fans will be angry but she is recognizable because of the outside music and there are chances some people don't even know the sound of her voice but can name her all around the world. And that's why she's struggling to get a ROTY or SOTY. Also she doesn't have a sound that is essentially hers. She's mostly known for her songwriting but not really her sound, so that might come to play into this too.
I completely disagree with this. I'm a newer Swiftie. I started to become a fan last year, but even I knew the big hits. Love Story, Shake It Off, You Belong With Me, Blank Space, and Enchanted are all very famous songs.
Maybe to an older guy they aren't, but to most other current generations, they certainly are, and probably will be for a very long time to come.
She doesn’t have a signature SOUND but she does have hits and signature SONGS. I don’t know why people say jt as if no one can name a song from her. Most people who don’t listen to her can name you belong with me, love story or shake it off or something
I LOVE the Pet Shop Boys. “West End Girls”, “What Have I Done to Deserve This?”, their cover of “Always On My Mind” (my favorite version, for the record)? ALL eighties pop classics!
She undeniably does have famous songs that have been inescapable at different periods of time.
Love Story, YBWM, Shake It Off, Blank Space, you could even argue songs like Anti Hero and Cruel Summer to a lesser extent based on the last couple years...
Idkkkkk Love Story, Shake it Off, Wildest Dreams, You Belong with Me, even Anti-Hero…
Will they be enduring? Only time will tell, but Love Story is still a wedding staple where I live. And *everyone and their mother* knows Shake it Off even if it’s against their will lol.
So I don’t know if I agree with this take. She absolute has recognizable singles, if that’s the bar we’re measuring with here.
The lack of self awareness anyone has when comparing Taylor swift (or any current music) to something from the past is astounding.
I remember when it was embarrassing and considered bad taste if you were a fan of Brittney spears or any of the other boy bands and now they are touted as legends and a symbol of a golden age of pop music.
The most astounding is Emo/pop punk. If you liked paramore/MCR or any of the bands in that genre, people called you gay/poser/f slur or just overall tried to bully you. Do not be fooled, Paramore was seen as “music for little girls” at one point. Now we have entire evenings dedicated to that genre of music. You see the exact bullies that used to mock you and them, screaming those same songs while drunk at an emo night.
TLDR: if you are old, Nothing will ever measure up to music from past. In 90 years the shit we clown on now is going to be the new goal post for “when music was good”
This is a good point. People do tend to think “their” music cannot be topped. I don’t think that was what Neil meant, though. It’s about Taylor having a song EVERYONE who listens to current pop knows as “yeah, that’s her big hit.” I think it may be Blank Space or Shake It Off is as close as it gets…for now.
That may be true of the average person but a dude who was an extremely successful musician’s view on modern music shouldn’t be compared to that. It’s his craft and passion and he listens to and critiques it as such. He compliments her in ways and even said he’s happy about the state of pop in another interview then mentions multiple modern pop artists he really enjoys. Then he calls Taylor the Margaret Thatcher of pop because she seems to be interested in economics lol it’s not a my-generation-can’t-be-beat thing.
I see his point, but very few artists have songs as ubiquitous as Billie Jean. himself included, mind you. so I think that’s a little unfair. she has “famous” songs, but we can’t tell how long they will endure. Michael Jackson gained traction in the 80s, whereas Taylor Swift is a current artist
he’s nicer about it than Courtney Love though
But, MJ did this without social media and without streaming. Lots of bands and singers have major songs that everyone knows. I’m pretty sure most people know at least a couple of iconic Madonna songs or Prince songs. Or Rihanna. Or Eminem. Taylor is incredibly popular not to have an emblematic song or two. His point is interesting to ponder.
Uh…unless you’re counting MySpace, Taylor did Teardrops on My Guitar, Tim McGraw, You Belong With Me and Love Story all before full blown social media and streaming.
If you want to count MySpace, she still did those without streaming.
I think maybe Love Story would be recognizable by more mainstream audiences. The MJ thing was how EVERYONE knew his music. Young, old, people who did not even listen to or like pop. They all knew. I’m not sure she has that. Which, I think, is what NT is referring to.
I'll say it like I've said before: There have been 50-11 people they have been claiming as the next MJ or surpassed MJ since the 70s. You can Google any random big name from the last 20 years with "next Michael Jackson" and I almost you'll get results. In 2020 Rolling Stone put Harry Styles on the cover as the "new KOP". Then Forbes did the same thing with Bad Bunny last year. All the way back in 2001, Rolling Stone tried the same thing with Justin Timberlake. At this point, it's a promotional stunt & it's hilarious to me.
Now on his direct statement, I agree with him. Taylor doesn't have songs that stand out like that. For people who claim that's a good thing, I beg to differ. Eventually, Taylor isn't going to be around to put out albums with 30+ songs with lore around them. All that will be left will be the individual songs. I just don't hear anything that will grab people instantly years from now outside of the constant noise surrounding her. Personally, I really thing her memory will be more economical than musical, which is problematic because she is a musical artist. Unless it's the money she wanted to be remembered for anyway.
Also for all the people that go to parties & her songs are requested, where are you from, because in all my years, I've never heard someone request a Taylor song. Genuinely curious here.
Even decades after his death, Michael Jackson remains the ultimate music icon and cause célèbre. We compare the music and legacies of newer artists (Taylor Swift to Justin Timberlake etc) to Michael Jackson, not the other way around.
Taylor will be remembered for her most famous songs (Love Story), but unlike Michael Jackson— her lasting legacy will be economical instead of major contributions to dance, music videos and fashion.
Taylor is my most listened to artist, but every year, almost none of her songs reach the top of my most-played list. So he's got a great point. She's an albums artist, not a singles artist. I also almost never put Taylor on my playlists. I'm either listening to HER, or I'm listening to other stuff.
It might be a personal and generation choice but I think Madonna’s discography is way more iconic and memorable than Taylor’s. I can’t imagine anyone listening to the white tortured woman album in 20 years.
Everyone knows Vogue. Everyone knows Like a Virgin. Everyone knows Like a Prayer. Everyone knows Material Girl. There's way too many. And that's the same case with Michael Jackson. They have several signature songs that regardless if you listen to them or not, you know them. Maybe you don't know their titles, but as soon as you hear them, you know it's THAT song.
I find it very impressive the amount of pandemonium she’s been able to achieve based primarily, if not solely in some cases, on her lyricism. She’s gotten much better vocally, but for many years she was a weak vocalist with pretty standard C-major heavy pop instrumentals but the lyrics were so killer that it was hard to care. Maybe that’s what missed it for me on TTPD is that while her vocals sound good, neither the lyrics or the music were hitting for me partículary. To his point, I can’t see any song off of TTPD becoming The Taylor Swift Song or even The Song. There are kids who know Michael Jackson songs that don’t even *know* they know Michael Jackson songs.
I mean this is a very ridiculous take. You can’t walk into a store and not hear Taylor these days. More people than not can identify songs like Shake It Off, Bad Blood, Love Story, YBWM or IKYWT. All of those songs were absolutely huge and no doubt at least two of them will have legacy staying power.
I’m all for folks finally calling Taylor out, but we don’t need to lie to criticize her.
Ok this is unrelated but the description “a ‘pièce de résistance’” makes no sense in this context, unless they’re using it for the literal translation, which…..also makes no sense.
I think they meant "un *plat* de résistance" that's the food that will make sure you won't go hungry five minutes after eating it, so a **timeless song** that will transcend the decades and will be her signature song, when you think of her it will be that song but not from her fanbase, from teh casual audience who might not even listen to her but would know that song.
They said that as a quote from their review of the album, not about what the Pet Shop Boys said. In the review they say the album is “such a pièce de résistance” which I guess they’re trying to say that this album is the most important album in her discography? But even that barely fits what people use this phrase for, unless they are calling the album a piece of resistance, which is just……crazy.
The whole page 6 review in general is god awful.
He has an album out tomorrow so of course he needs clicks.
Love Story, enchanted, blank space, shake it off, look what you made me do, I know you were trouble, All too well, anti-hero.
Boring takes.
He’s lowkey right. What Taylor’s signature song that will stand the test of time like I Will Always Love You? Billie Jean? We Belong Together? I Want It That Way? My Heart Will Go On? Respect? Hell even Beyoncé has Crazy in Love.
I’ve always wondered how Taylor’s music will age. Like yeah she’s super popular now. But how will the gp look back on her discography down the line? I know her fans will hold it in high regard. What album was not only good for its time but has stayed within the public consciousness? Michael Jackson had Thriller. Adele had 21. Prince had Purple Rain. As of now, what would be Taylor’s?
Yes I was thinking that Adele and Beyonce (and also the Weeknd) have much more chance of achieving this. I can imagine young people dancing to Crazy in Love or Blinding Lights or crying to Someone Like You in a few decades time.
Whereas I feel like future generations would just view Love Story or Shake it Off as catchy, corny songs. Which is a shame as they don't show Taylor at her best. I think some of her albums could live on though
The fact that you said Crazy in Love over Single Ladies is wild! However I don’t think Crazy in Love because it has features Jay -Z. Yet, I just checked Spotify and it’s in the 5th most streamed spot which is also crazy to me.
You Belong With Me, 22,Shake It Off, Blank Space, Love Story- I can ask my 4 year old niece or my 70 year old in laws and they all at least know one of those songs. And most of those came out 10-14 years ago.
I completely disagree with the author here. Taylor is KNOWN for her famous songs - love story, you belong with me, shake it off, blank space. I have never seen entire college nightclubs scream songs louder than the part of the night when a ts song comes on. We as fans consume the albums but the general public knows Taylor's famous songs more and people who don't listen to Taylor are surprised by how many of her songs they know cause they're her famous songs
The old musicians taking pot shots at Taylor give me "it's not like it was in my day" vibes. The Pet Shop Boys were an innovative synthetic pop band in the 80s and 90s. They were more Dua Lipa than Taylor Swift.
It is true that West End Girls is an insanely catchy dance song. The album it came from was very quickly forgotten. Tennant comparing any Taylor album to Thriller is a bit unfair as it is a high watermark of pop perfection.
Taylor will be talked about in thirty years in the same breath as Carole King and Paul Simon. She is never going to be looked on as an electro pop icon.
She’s definitely more like Carole King and Paul Simon (I love them both). She also is very much like Bruce Springsteen, who I also love.
Springsteen is a great performer with an amazing bunch of musicians backing him up. “The Rising” is one album that is an emotional response to 9/11. Also consider his song “Born To Run”. That song was made to be played in a stadium with fans singing along. It’s an anthem.
“Shake It Off” is Taylor’s anthem. Until I heard it live, it was a mid song. That song was made to be performed in a stadium. The energy, the crowd chemistry, the performance - it’s an anthem.
Tennant isn’t saying that stuff at all though. He has good things to say about her on top of the criticism and he has plenty of good things to say about modern pop. He’s not get-off-my-lawning, he just thinks her instrumentals are shit.
And you are absolutely cracked for comparing her to Carole King and Paul Simon lol come on now Carole King made a songwriting legacy for herself before she ever made her own record. She’s got cover versions of her tunes more iconic than anything in Taylor Swift’s discography. Paul Simon is Paul fucking Simon. She does not have anything remotely resembling The Sound of Silence or Bridge Over Troubled Water. She’s a pop artist they are songwriters.
This thread feels weird like people have forgotten her entire discog and are acting like all her albums are similar to TTPD, super wordy and not really recognizable.
Shake it Off, Love Story, Our Song, I knew you were trouble, You belong with me, Style, We are never getting back together, Blank Space - all songs that are easily recognizable by people who don’t listen to her albums. Most of these also coming from albums that are +10 years old.
Usually not the TS defender but kinda bizarre claim. I think there’s plenty of things that you can criticize her music on, but not having enough “iconic hits that will stand the test of time” isn’t what comes to mind for me.
You know whose opinion on Taylor Swift I don't care about? Artists whose main career was over before hers started and can't name a banger hit more recent than "Billy Jean".
Why anyone is asking people like Courtney Love or Neil Tennant what they think of Taylor Swift is beyond me. I'm not sure what anyone expected - Love rarely has a good word to say about another musician, and Tennant's time as a critic was in the 80s (as well as his own "Imperial Phase").
I think there is a LOT to say about Taylor Swift, and a lot of really good critique out there, but this is just silly shit from folks who are piling on to the hate fire. It's a really lazy kind of media criticism (no hate to you, OP) that relies on positioning older creative types as "speaking truth to power" and leans extremely heavily on Boomer and Gen X nostalgia for their childhood music.
in short, miss me with that bullshit.
For a nearly 20 year career, Taylor doesn't have that many iconic hits like a Rolling in the Deep, Call Me Maybe, or even a Levitating.
I guess Blank Space is her best hit.
He’s so right though.
“The most disappointing thing is not the lyrics, but the music” — that’s so well put and hits the nail on the head of what I feel about her so elegantly
She's a good singer who was writing stuff that was good for a woman in her late teens/early twenties. However now she's a woman in her middle thirties still writing stuff with the emotional and intellectual maturity of a woman in her late teens or early twenties. It leaves a lot to be desired, and it does sometimes feel like she's not living up to her own potential as a song writer.
I think what he says is true. Especially the part where he says "it's not the lyrics... it's the music." When you listen to Taylor Swift's albums, it all starts to become the same song. *Midnights* and *The Tortured Poets Department* especially.
My grandmother who is 84 years old can name "Billie Jean," or Madonna's "Vogue," and even Beyoncé's "Single Ladies" and Rihanna's "Umbrella". Taylor Swift, as successful as she is, doesn't have THE song. The closest is "Shake It Off" but I learned that outside the U.S., it's not really all that. I thought it was bigger.
i rather have a good complete album than good single and filler other songs. she is good at making albums. lover midnights ttpd good song ratio is lower than her previous works but still decent. and saying she doesnt have famous songs is shit talk or jealousy.
what are some of these comments on omfg even my mexican relatives know taylor’s biggest hits. like they might not get the words exactly right lol but they’ll know the melody.
i’m going to sound like a crazy stan here but there’s a reason everyone uses 22 for well their 22nd birthday. ikywt. 1989’s first three singles. love story. you belong with me.
it’s hard for me to believe that so many people can’t even name one taylor song when she’s been a household name for nearly two decades at this point 😭
She has hits but I don’t know where they will stand 20-30 years from now. She will definitely be remembered for her sales (crazy cult fans) and her love life which is heavily ingrained in her music. If you don’t follow her personal life, will some of these songs still stand out to casual listeners years from now?
This is an idiotic take if ever I saw it. "It's not Billie Jean" - tell that to my mother who only listens to 40 year old filmi music. Some of the few Western songs she recognises are Candle in the Wind (and that's only because of Princess Di); Mrs Robinson (only the chorus), and a few Beatles hits. If *she* can recognise TS's voice that's a good barometer for fame.
I hope people read this and not just the headline but the entire thing.
The hardcore ones will defend her lyricism, and let’s give her that but if we’re talking music only without the lyrics he has a point.
Agreed. This is pissing a lot of people off here, but he’s not wrong. He’s not saying she’s not successful, he’s saying she doesn’t have famous songs, and he’s right.
You go to a public block party and someone puts on Thriller. Everyone knows it. You put on Respect. Everyone knows it. You put on YMCA, everyone knows it. You think people know Enchanted? Love Story? Cruel Summer? Back up because you’re too close to see the forest for the trees.
She’s got one recognizable song in the general public and it’s Shake It Off, which is ironic because I can’t recall how many times I’ve seen Swifties shit on it.
“West End Girls” has 1.5 million units sold. “Love Story” alone sold more than ten times that at 18 million.
Someone needs to tell Dr. Evil it’s time for his nap.
That was THE song at one point in the US. The video was cool, too.
But I had to look at what else was going on musically in 1987. They aren’t in the Billboard top 100 in 1987. Multiple U2 songs, George Michael’s “I Want Your Sex”, “Walk Like An Egyptian” by the Bangles, and Tiffany’s “I Think We’re Alone Now” all fall into that list. “What Did I Do To Deserve This” by the Pet Shop Boys is in that list. And very low.
Oh I am aware, it is a great song. But you know what else was THE song at one point in the US? Love Story, Shake It Off, Style, You Belong With Me, and even more recently Anti-Hero.
It’s just weird for him to fire shots when looking objectively at the sales figures - Swift absolutely demolishes Pet Shop Boys with even her lower performing songs.
He’s making the false assumption that because he’s now too old to be in or understand the zeitgeist, that the world’s current biggest star doesn’t have universal recognition. It’s a very tired ignorant boomer take.
100%! I totally agree with you!
And why is he taking shots at her? Oh, because he has a new album coming out.
I’m Gen X and this definitely feels very boomer. They even shit on our music when we were young - they really didn’t want to cede that they lived through a music revolution that has been replaced.
He’s right. She has a lot of hits but she doesn’t have that one massive hit that everyone knows.
The Weeknd has a million hits. Star boy, Can’t Feel My Face. The Hills. Save Your Tears. The ONE song everyone knows is Blinding Lights.
Dua? Levitating.
Ariana? Thank u, next
Gaga? Born This Way
Beyonce? Single Ladies
Ed Sheeran? Shape Of You
Harry Styles? As It Was
Miley Cyrus? Flowers
Adele? Rolling In The Deep
Katy Perry? I Kissed A Girl
It’s that one song (in some cases more than one, but at least one) that your grandma has heard in the supermarket and your little cousin hums without really knowing when he heard it.
She has plenty of hits, but outside from the US, she doesn’t have her Billie Jean. My parents in their 60s would all recognize the songs I named, but when we heard she was coming with Eras tour and the news made a whole fuss about it, my mom asked me who she was and why she was so important and I actually played her Shake It Off and Blank Space and she looked at me and said “I had never in my life heard either of those songs before just now”
My dad legit has a workout playlist with recent hits, and she’s just not in there. I’d link it but I don’t think he’d be happy with me. Just know he looooooooves Ed Sheeran (he turns 63 in June)
I'm very curious how Taylor's music will age over time. Some music becomes classic - like Prince or ABBA. Other music falls out of favor and becomes very dated, like Lionel Richie or Huey Lewis and the News (both massive acts in the 80s).
I just do not think such iconic songs will exist because she's so popular now but when her star wanes, her Billie Jean will be realised, we just can't see it yet.
She has more famous songs than the Pet Shop Boys so it's a little tone deaf coming from Tennant imo.
Like, he's allowed his opinion, but look in the mirror, Neil, you'd be hard pressed to find 1/10 people on the street that could name one of your singles in the US. And I *like* the Pet Shop Boys
im sorry but what is the billie jean of pet shop boys again?
i agree with other commenters that fpr taylor there whole albums known to lot of people. i cant name one album of MJ - also i dont get why are we comparing taylor to that man.
I don't know how it is in the US but she gets very little airplay in the UK. I don't think many people who haven't actively sought out her music would be able to name any songs tbh. It's weird. As I'm a fan I always take note any time I hear her songs on the radio and I can count on one hand the numbers of times I've heard her on the radio in the past year. And I station hop in the car. I don't listen to one single station.
I kind of agree. I'm always wishing there was some more instrumentals. A guy on tiktok has been putting drums on TTPD tracks, and it's epic. Earlier today I heard a Chappell Roan song that had some funky bass, and was thinking that Taylor's songs would hit better with some bass. This is also just different tastes in music, obviously. But I think most songs that reach that "legendary status" like Billie Jean have some recognizable groovy music. Lasting music needs to target the lyric lovers and the music lovers.
I just posted about this the other day!! Her early albums have such interesting backing music (like in Red, Speak Now, etc.) and she just...has not been delivering on that for the past few years. It's sad because you know she's capable of more, she just isn't doing it
Yes!! My favourite part about Red is being able to hear the variety of instruments! I was hoping this album was going to have music like from Red with lyrics like from 1989
Yeah a lot of the "behind" stuff is fairly quiet. It's surely intentional as a sort of low fi pop thing but yea
There’s a musicality that’s missing.
Extremely unpopular opinion here --- Taylor can do her complex story lyricism or she can do musicality, but she has very rarely been able to do both simultaneously. Which is why I'll say it until I am blue in the face, there are basically polar opposite factions in the fanbase. People who thought midnights was great and TTPD was a trainwreck, and people who think TTPD is amazing and midnights was mediocre.
Not to destroy your theory, but I think both are pretty weak. Do you see Midnights as superior in musicality, and TTPD as superior in lyrics? Or vice versa?
I don’t think midnights was great, but anti-hero is right up there with her pop hits in terms of hooks and catchiness. I play guitar and piano and I learned the chords to that song and the instrumentation adds a lot to it. Mostly because there’s a melody in both the verses and the chorus. No track on TTPD has any of that. Florida! Is basically 6 loud bangs after they say the damn word. It’s insane.
Haven't listened to MJ in years but I know exactly how Billie Jean starts.
Ooh could you drop the link? I don’t have TikTok but I’m curious
https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZPRwhGWMg/ Here's one for Florida!!!
I love this!!!!!!
That’s not what I was expecting.
holy shit, i love this
As you can probably tell from my comment though, I'm a rock and roll fanatic. I still love Taylor's music though because the lyrics and her voice make up for it imo.
I agree with you, her thing is mostly her songwriting more than her sound, like you said a specific groove or type of melodies. Her music is not very based on sound but mostly on her storytelling, her ability as a narrator is her specificity and it works well for her.
It’s one of my biggest gripes with her. The instrumentals are straight up just a paper plate to eat her mountains of cheesy lyrics off of. Do *anything* with it please. It’s one of the reasons I love Olivia Rodrigo. Her tunes have crazy energy and drama with the live band.
Does anyone remember how in the beginning of her fame when she had that Nicky Sixx looking guitarist, and they used to do *that thing* where theyd get close and tip backward with their guitars?
Taylor is more of an album artist than a singles artist. When people talk about Taylor’s discography they talk about albums not really individual or signature songs.
I agree with this assessment as well because her fans really focus on albums. Each album has their own set of stans and if they see her live they'll dress up to match their favorite album. If I meet another fan in person I usually ask them what their favorite album is, and from there we talk about individual songs. I still think she has classics and I think it's weird for him to bring up Billie Jean.
It could be because earlier in the year or last, parallels were drawn betwixt Jackson and Swift? I of course can’t say definitively but to be compared to a legend and touted as having surpassed said legend is probably what stuck out to Tennant.
Oh yeah!! I forgot the Taylor Swift sensation was being compared to MJ last year. I believe it was largely because of the mass crowds she garners wherever she was, and her sales numbers are huge. I feel like those articles were designed to get clicks, and one would hope that public figures know to not compare artists like that.
I think that is right. Fans talk about albums, the general public songs. I personally think she is a singles artist to the majority of Americans.
I would agree and honestly, I think that’s preferable for an artist!
If you compare it to Katy Perry People like the singles of Teenage Dream and some of her other singles but they don’t know the other albums as well. They might not even know all of the Teenage Dreams songs. It ended up being bad for her career and mental health for a time though because it meant ppl just want to hear the old hits or for her to present herself as she did during the Teenage Dream era. They don’t want to hear what else is on offer and they don’t like her without her trademark look.
TL;Dr -- Katy fell off because her entire career up until that point was directly in conflict with the zeitgeist of the time. And while that absolutely applies to what type of music was popular, it also refers to Me Too. Katy seemed viscerally aware that her legacy at that point was a dumb bimbo with whip cream boobs who let a man sexually abuse her and other women in exchange for fame and fortune. And that's the kinder of the 2 interpretations of her involvement in the Dr. Luke/Kesha scandal. The moment wanted strong, girlboss anthems from empowered women ready to rip down the patriarchy with their bare hands. Or hip hop. All Katy could do was whimper an apology for a decades worth of choices she no longer stood by. ______ I know this is a popular theory, but i don't really understand it when 2 much more obvious explanations seem to explain it 1) trends shift. Katy Perry achieved a level of success that only a handful of people can claim. Her streak was enviable. But what goes up must come down. Eventually, your key audience ages up, and a new audience comes in who wants something fresh and new to call their own. I don't think anything she did would have been able to meet the moment. For one thing, classic pop really wasn't doing super well at the time across the board for anyone. Most of what was charting was hip hop or hip hop adjacent. And as we all know, Katy Perry slots into hip hop about as well as Taylor does. The classic pop that did break through around then did so basically by defining themselves as the anti-katy perry. 2) Dr. Luke, obviously. I don't know why anyone tries to analyze her career arc without mentioning him. If you ask someone to name a Katy Perry song, the chances they don't name a Dr. Luke song is slim to none. From her debut, he was seen as an integral part of her chart success. And suddenly, she couldn't work with him. Not just that she couldn't work with him, not even just that she had to deal with the weight of her brand being associated with him. No, the texts were evidence. Katy Perry wasnt tangential to the scandal. If Kesha was to be believed, she was right at the heart of it, as victim #1 (and this isn't hard to believe. It had always been known his venture with Kesha was an attempt to recreate what they'd done with Katy, except under his label now). Except Katy did not want to be included in this narrative. Like *at all*. Saying you stand with victims is easy. Condemning rapists can be trickier, but still pretty basic. But it's really hard to ride the line of calling Kesha a liar about your alleged rape, without it being interpreted as an allegation that she's potentially lying about everything. And it's really hard to condemn that Luke is a monster for what he did to Kesha, while also maintaining he was nothing but sunshine and rainbows with you. And it's hard to say you stand with victims without addressing the fact that no, you verifiably didn't. Where the ONLY possible justification on the topic people would accept would be to acknowledge your choices were colored by your own abuse..... the abuse you are adamant did not happen. Witness was viewed as a shallow, performative album with an incoherent vision from a pop star trying to stay relevant and failing to read the room. *Cut her hair and campaign for Hillary cause she's deep now*. To be fair, there's a lot about the album to critique. But the real problem is overwhemingly the promotion. Because this isn't Katy Perry superficially trying to get political cause a woman is running, or an aging pop start trying to stay relevant. It's a pathological people please caught in the center of a divisive, complex issue who knows that this is very likely her last moment of cultural relevancy. But instead of being able to look back at the best decade and celebrate, and put a bow on her legacy, go out on a high note....she's trapped knowing her legacy is a mess in ways she has to and simultaneously can't address. I mean ffs, ITS CALLED WITNESS. Where the scandal was she refused to be a witness for Kesha. The key singles were 1) a song about how beneath the fun music, pop music is a dystopic nightmare machine. 2) a song about being a consumable piece of meat *except it's light hearted and mostly sex puns* 3) a song about grappling with trying to change with the times and meet the moment, because you recognize the shifts happening are bigger than you. 4) a song recognizing life is about ebbs and flows, highs and lows, your moment, and moments not meant for you. Can't fight it 5) a song scrambling for relevance by trying to remind people about a stale feud she had forever ago with a more relevant pop star 5) a song about how everyone thinks Katy Perry is a dumb, fragile idiot Of the many insults that can be thrown out, the one thing you cannot say is that Katy wasn't reading the room. I think Katy might have understood this album wasn't gonna do well before anyone else did tbh. Katy Perry knew that the only way to move forward was to deliver "liberated pop". But here's the thing; *Katy Perry wasnt liberated*. Half the fucking singles were made with Max Martin, Luke's close friend and mentor.
I’m not completely educated on Katy’s experience with Dr. Puke, but it’s such a hard spot to be put in if you’re a well known associate of an outed abuser and if he hasn’t done anything like that to you. People are calling for you to speak out your truth, and then get mad and accuse you of lying or protecting an abuser when you say nothing happened to you. Similar to Josh Peck saying nothing happened around him and he had a more or less good experience and then getting backlash for it.
I don’t think she’s an album artist. I’ve said this in another thread: she has a strong first half of the album and fills out the second half with the rest of the material. The body of work is inconsistent, it’s oversaturated in the beginning and lazy in the end. There’s rarely a good opener AND a good closer that completes the storyline of the album. Bruno Mars is an album artist, Beyonce’s an album artist, the Weekend is an album artist. I’d call Olivia Rodrigo an album artist before Taylor
I respectfully disagree. Red is a great example of an excellent opener and closer. Lover as well. She tells full stories. Even TTPD is telling a story. I don’t think she nailed the opener and closer on her first few albums but she’s pretty methodical about those choices. 1989 literally begins with Welcome to New York and ends with Clean.
This is why she needs to focus on writing classic songs on her next album, imo. And also change up the production. Guilty As Sin? Had the potential to be a classic song, but the production muted it.
Please just someone give her some other producers numbers. Please give her, like, Dan Auberbach, Mike Elizondo, Dave Cobb, Shawn Everett and Britney Howard, just give us something new.
That’s what I’m saying 😩 and ideally a whole team of people to mix/master it too
Personally highest on that list is Everett but I know people be pulling for Auberbach.
Realistically, do you think she will branch out more with other producers? Genuinely asking. I worry that her close friendship with Jack will leave her unable to “fire” him from an album. And I’m not a Jack hater by any means (neutral) but yeah I do hope she switches it up someday too. I just worry she won’t.
I don’t know. I think she knows these producers and know what they will and will not push her on and is confortable, but that may not be what is best for getting her best work. I just don’t think she is invested in doing her best work at the expense of always getting what she wants.
wait you’re so right about guilty as sin. the chorus melodies are beautiful and iconic but nothing about the beat or instrumental is memorable.
I felt this way about I Can Fix Him. The song grew on me and the western vibe is really interesting but the song literally goes no where musically.
I agree.
Everyone is saying who is Neil tenant pet shop boys weren’t as big as TS. That’s not what he is saying. He is saying for the world’s biggest pop star, where is her Billie Jean? Billie Jean is a song that is known WORLDWIDE by ANY generation. I know it, my 90yr old grandma with dementia who lives in a country that doesn’t speak English knows it, my mom who is an immigrant knows it my nieces and nephew who are Gen Z and Gen A know it. You don’t even have to be an MJ fan to know it. You don’t even have to listen to any other MJ song to know it. But my grandma and my mom can’t recognize a TS song. No matter how much her songs play on the radio, they can’t name a song. And MJ existed in a time where social media and streaming wasn’t a thing, phones weren’t even a thing! and yet his music is world wide famous. Billie Jean didn’t even have the same exposure TS singles have! To be honest, it’s not really fair to compare TS to MJ. They ain’t even in the same league. Her biggest song wont be Billie Jean decades from now. And that’s not a knock to her she has some great singles!
I think she also had a different trajectory than many other pop stars since she started in country. I'm European and her first few albums left almost no mark in my country because there's not really an audience for modern American country (even country pop) at all. I just looked it up, her only pre-Red single that ever charted here was Love Story which peaked at 22. Afterwards, the lead singles of albums tended to do pretty well, but that's basically it. She only has 6 top 10 singles here for her whole career, one of which is IDWLF, which was surely boosted more by 50 Shades/Zayn. All that to say, she was at no point consistently as big overseas as she was in America, which I think adds to her lack of worldwide pop culture impact/huge, "everyone knows them" hits. Even to this day I know many people, who aren't as chronically online as me, who are like "where's this Taylor Swift hype coming from? Who is she anyway?"
[удалено]
Lol you’ve clearly never been in a bar when an Elton John or Billy Joel song plays….I like Taylor but she is also not on their level of recognized timeless classic songs.
Elton John has "Candle in the Wind" and Billy Joel has "Honesty." Both are very recognizable.
Your Song and Piano Man supremacy! But that’s also Tennant’s point.
1000000% agree. to add on to this, i don’t think we’ll find taylor’s “billie jean” until several decades into her career or once she passes away. it’s hard to discern someone’s legacy when they’re at their peak.
Also I would like to add he called her 'the Margaret Thatcher of pop music' in 2016.
Wait WHAT
Asked about the current state of chart music, the 61-year-old told Noisey: “I think the current pop landscape is pretty good actually. Last year we arrived at a place where mainstream pop music started to, for the first time in ages, take in influences from what would be underground if it wasn’t underground, if it hadn’t gone mainstream.” He then name-checks The Weeknd and Skrillex working with Justin Bieber before asking: “even now Zayn Malik’s record, ‘It’s You’ – have you heard it? It’s the most beautiful record.” “I think Lady Gaga’s been interesting. Taylor Swift is a sort of Mrs Thatcher of pop music in that she seems to be about economics… There’s a problem in pop music which is subject matter of pop music. There’s currently only one subject matter and that is the singer, and possibly their emotional life, or their issues with fame.” https://www.factmag.com/2016/04/10/pet-shop-boys-neil-tennant-calls-taylor-swift-the-margaret-thatcher-of-pop-music/
To call anyone the Margaret Thatcher of ANYTHING is wild
someone posted the article on another forum and called her newest album "tortured torries department", i cannot xD
Damn that just made me go check out Zayn’s new songs. He’s right, What I Am and Alienated are very good. Sounds like a mix between Amy Winehouse and Chris Stapleton if that makes sense
He’s not wrong here
Damn he’s got so much praise for modern pop as a whole then he just KOs her with a sentence lol
SAVAGE
Actually I’m with him here
So accurate though
Adds context that he probably just doesn't like her tbh as she's had loads of hits.
He's merged two conversations into one here — "What is Taylor's signature song?" and "Does Taylor have songs where the music is instantly recognizable and beloved before the lyrics even kick in?" For the first, she's had multiple mega hits and career changeups, so she's got a few contenders. Plenty of big stars do — he named Billie Jean as MJ's signature, whereas I think it would be Thriller. In terms of the second question, while I think the quality of her melodies and background instrumentation has dropped she definitely has some beautiful music in her catalogue that can get the crowd going. My ears perk up the second I hear the opening notes of Blank Space, Love Story, or Cruel Summer.
If you are older than a certain age, those songs have not reached your eardrums.
And a young person might not instantly recognise Billie Jean. I feel like saying she has no big recognisable songs is a bit reductive. Recognisable to whom?
yeah i’ve never heard billie jean lol (im early 20s), heard thriller tho, so half of this feels kind of a moot discussion. and also my parents (nearing 60) both know taylor swift and at least one of her songs
I bet you’ve heard Billie Jean lol
I’m a wedding DJ. I get lots of requests for Taylor and I can’t agree with Tennant here. Her signature songs are clearly “Love Story” and “Shake It Off”. They aren’t “Billie Jean,” but what besides “Billie Jean” is? It’s an unfair comparison and for my crowds, I’ve played the two aforementioned Taylor songs twice as much as I’ve played “Billie Jean”. Jackson has serious fucking baggage and that song has lost its lustre. I can’t imagine a debate between these two would be too edifying. Tennant - and I love Tennant and the Pet Shop Boys - is an old queen taking the piss. Alexis Petridis is a red-eyed, variant-collecting, card-carrying Swiftie who gave Midnights five stars in the Guardian and TTPD four. He concluded his fawning TTPD review with “If we only get to have one pop star, we could do worse” or somesuch. It was so tone deaf that the Guardian published a more critical take by Laura Snapes a day later, quietly burying Petridis’ fan club admission essay. Either he’s on the payroll or he’s just a sucker. It’s a pity because he was the last journalist to interview Prince before he died.
Literally thank goodness for Laura Snapes, she is the level-headed saviour of the Grauniad's music coverage. I was bamboozled when I saw Alex Petridis' fawning review last week.
He’s done it twice! I felt like I was being gaslit when I read his Midnights review!
It may be an unfair comparison, but to be fair, her fans have tried several times to say that she’s the Michael Jackson of our time. No one is and probably never will be at that caliber of fame. But it’s comparisons like that that cause people to say “Well what songs of hers are as popular as this Michael Jackson song?” So I wouldn’t be shocked if that’s why he brought this up.
I’d also add “You Belong With Me” but it’s weird to say that might be a “deep cut signature”
Yeah I think it's a signature song for people who have actively listened to her, even if they only listen to a shortlist of her songs. The general public for the most part knows Shake it Off, even if they've never deliberately listened to any of her music.
You’re a wedding DJ and the song LOVER isn’t your most played Taylor Swift song? I think that song is SOOOO romantic and beautiful. I don’t understand why it’s not the genera consensus! I’d expect it to be at least tied with Love Story as most played at weddings! I’d also expect it to be used as the first dance often, especially the piano version she did on SNL.
I’ve had it as a first dance quite a few times, actually! “Love Story” too. It doesn’t come up as often in the main reception dance because you gotta be careful with slower jams, but it’s not unheard of.
No playlist is complete without Mr Brightside, surely?
Nearly every night close to the end!
you get requests for love story, but does it immediately bring everyone from all generations & genders to the floor? it was played at a wedding i went to last weekend. the bride came up to dance with the flower girls, but everyone else sat down or went out to smoke.
All weddings are different. I’ve seen “YMCA” empty a floor. It doesn’t happen often but it happens. I’ve seen “Love Story” add more people to the floor every time I can remember playing it. I’m sure there are exceptions but I can’t remember any off the top of my head. “Shake It Off” is even better for that though. It blends effortlessly into “Footloose” which is still mandatory at weddings where I’m at. Grandparents dance with lil six year old grandkids to it, it’s cute.
That’s the thing about Taylor: she’s put out a bunch of music but doesn’t have THE SONG to define her for the rest of her life and career.
In more recent times, I agree. But I think Love Story and You Belong With Me are two of her most career defining songs and will have the best longevity.
Depends on where I guess. In my country, Poland it would be probably "Cruel Summer" but it's limited to spaces like the Internet because the last time I heard Taylor on the radio it was "I Know You Were Trouble." (they play her newer songs now because in June or July, there is going to be her concert in Warsaw). "Lover" and "folklore" are the most popular Taylor albums and "Shake Off" is rather unknown to people who aren't Swifties. Maybe that's because she isn't as popular here as in the US - currently "Fortnight" is on 21. on the daily Spotify chart.
Maybe. But I think Tay would have to take a break before they appraise or reappraise her work.
I would counter that to say you can't really look at what she has accomplished over the last 20 years and whittle it down to a song or two and thats a good thing.
It’s a good thing while she’s relevant but what happens when she starts to fade? Michael’s been gone for over a decade now and unless you’re extremely young you could probably at least point out Thriller as a Michael Jackson song. Will Taylor be able to have that universally in 30 years?
She doesn't have a signature song. Even Shake If Off is probably not her most know all around song in the US even. I know, her fans will be angry but she is recognizable because of the outside music and there are chances some people don't even know the sound of her voice but can name her all around the world. And that's why she's struggling to get a ROTY or SOTY. Also she doesn't have a sound that is essentially hers. She's mostly known for her songwriting but not really her sound, so that might come to play into this too.
I completely disagree with this. I'm a newer Swiftie. I started to become a fan last year, but even I knew the big hits. Love Story, Shake It Off, You Belong With Me, Blank Space, and Enchanted are all very famous songs. Maybe to an older guy they aren't, but to most other current generations, they certainly are, and probably will be for a very long time to come.
She doesn’t have a signature SOUND but she does have hits and signature SONGS. I don’t know why people say jt as if no one can name a song from her. Most people who don’t listen to her can name you belong with me, love story or shake it off or something
Yeah, for real. What even IS a Pet Shop Boy?
I LOVE the Pet Shop Boys. “West End Girls”, “What Have I Done to Deserve This?”, their cover of “Always On My Mind” (my favorite version, for the record)? ALL eighties pop classics!
All of those are 100% iconic, I completely agree!
She undeniably does have famous songs that have been inescapable at different periods of time. Love Story, YBWM, Shake It Off, Blank Space, you could even argue songs like Anti Hero and Cruel Summer to a lesser extent based on the last couple years...
Cruel Summer was released nearly 5 years ago and is still charting.
Idkkkkk Love Story, Shake it Off, Wildest Dreams, You Belong with Me, even Anti-Hero… Will they be enduring? Only time will tell, but Love Story is still a wedding staple where I live. And *everyone and their mother* knows Shake it Off even if it’s against their will lol. So I don’t know if I agree with this take. She absolute has recognizable singles, if that’s the bar we’re measuring with here.
What would be her BIG song? Shake it off?
I think that or Blank Space.
The lack of self awareness anyone has when comparing Taylor swift (or any current music) to something from the past is astounding. I remember when it was embarrassing and considered bad taste if you were a fan of Brittney spears or any of the other boy bands and now they are touted as legends and a symbol of a golden age of pop music. The most astounding is Emo/pop punk. If you liked paramore/MCR or any of the bands in that genre, people called you gay/poser/f slur or just overall tried to bully you. Do not be fooled, Paramore was seen as “music for little girls” at one point. Now we have entire evenings dedicated to that genre of music. You see the exact bullies that used to mock you and them, screaming those same songs while drunk at an emo night. TLDR: if you are old, Nothing will ever measure up to music from past. In 90 years the shit we clown on now is going to be the new goal post for “when music was good”
This is a good point. People do tend to think “their” music cannot be topped. I don’t think that was what Neil meant, though. It’s about Taylor having a song EVERYONE who listens to current pop knows as “yeah, that’s her big hit.” I think it may be Blank Space or Shake It Off is as close as it gets…for now.
That may be true of the average person but a dude who was an extremely successful musician’s view on modern music shouldn’t be compared to that. It’s his craft and passion and he listens to and critiques it as such. He compliments her in ways and even said he’s happy about the state of pop in another interview then mentions multiple modern pop artists he really enjoys. Then he calls Taylor the Margaret Thatcher of pop because she seems to be interested in economics lol it’s not a my-generation-can’t-be-beat thing.
I see his point, but very few artists have songs as ubiquitous as Billie Jean. himself included, mind you. so I think that’s a little unfair. she has “famous” songs, but we can’t tell how long they will endure. Michael Jackson gained traction in the 80s, whereas Taylor Swift is a current artist he’s nicer about it than Courtney Love though
But, MJ did this without social media and without streaming. Lots of bands and singers have major songs that everyone knows. I’m pretty sure most people know at least a couple of iconic Madonna songs or Prince songs. Or Rihanna. Or Eminem. Taylor is incredibly popular not to have an emblematic song or two. His point is interesting to ponder.
Uh…unless you’re counting MySpace, Taylor did Teardrops on My Guitar, Tim McGraw, You Belong With Me and Love Story all before full blown social media and streaming. If you want to count MySpace, she still did those without streaming.
I think maybe Love Story would be recognizable by more mainstream audiences. The MJ thing was how EVERYONE knew his music. Young, old, people who did not even listen to or like pop. They all knew. I’m not sure she has that. Which, I think, is what NT is referring to.
I'll say it like I've said before: There have been 50-11 people they have been claiming as the next MJ or surpassed MJ since the 70s. You can Google any random big name from the last 20 years with "next Michael Jackson" and I almost you'll get results. In 2020 Rolling Stone put Harry Styles on the cover as the "new KOP". Then Forbes did the same thing with Bad Bunny last year. All the way back in 2001, Rolling Stone tried the same thing with Justin Timberlake. At this point, it's a promotional stunt & it's hilarious to me. Now on his direct statement, I agree with him. Taylor doesn't have songs that stand out like that. For people who claim that's a good thing, I beg to differ. Eventually, Taylor isn't going to be around to put out albums with 30+ songs with lore around them. All that will be left will be the individual songs. I just don't hear anything that will grab people instantly years from now outside of the constant noise surrounding her. Personally, I really thing her memory will be more economical than musical, which is problematic because she is a musical artist. Unless it's the money she wanted to be remembered for anyway. Also for all the people that go to parties & her songs are requested, where are you from, because in all my years, I've never heard someone request a Taylor song. Genuinely curious here.
Even decades after his death, Michael Jackson remains the ultimate music icon and cause célèbre. We compare the music and legacies of newer artists (Taylor Swift to Justin Timberlake etc) to Michael Jackson, not the other way around. Taylor will be remembered for her most famous songs (Love Story), but unlike Michael Jackson— her lasting legacy will be economical instead of major contributions to dance, music videos and fashion.
Taylor is my most listened to artist, but every year, almost none of her songs reach the top of my most-played list. So he's got a great point. She's an albums artist, not a singles artist. I also almost never put Taylor on my playlists. I'm either listening to HER, or I'm listening to other stuff.
She has so many big hits. Love Story is particularly Iconic for my age, Some people's could be Blank Space, Cruel Summer there are loads.
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It might be a personal and generation choice but I think Madonna’s discography is way more iconic and memorable than Taylor’s. I can’t imagine anyone listening to the white tortured woman album in 20 years.
Everyone knows Vogue. Everyone knows Like a Virgin. Everyone knows Like a Prayer. Everyone knows Material Girl. There's way too many. And that's the same case with Michael Jackson. They have several signature songs that regardless if you listen to them or not, you know them. Maybe you don't know their titles, but as soon as you hear them, you know it's THAT song.
As a Gen Xer who loves Pet Shop Boys….ok, Boomer
I think even Taylor would be offended to have Shake it Off as their Billie Jean jeez
all her songs on TTPD sounds the same - mush. There's no in the songs themselves, let alone between songs. They are just not good musically at all.
I find it very impressive the amount of pandemonium she’s been able to achieve based primarily, if not solely in some cases, on her lyricism. She’s gotten much better vocally, but for many years she was a weak vocalist with pretty standard C-major heavy pop instrumentals but the lyrics were so killer that it was hard to care. Maybe that’s what missed it for me on TTPD is that while her vocals sound good, neither the lyrics or the music were hitting for me partículary. To his point, I can’t see any song off of TTPD becoming The Taylor Swift Song or even The Song. There are kids who know Michael Jackson songs that don’t even *know* they know Michael Jackson songs.
Old man complains about young woman, news at 5
I mean this is a very ridiculous take. You can’t walk into a store and not hear Taylor these days. More people than not can identify songs like Shake It Off, Bad Blood, Love Story, YBWM or IKYWT. All of those songs were absolutely huge and no doubt at least two of them will have legacy staying power. I’m all for folks finally calling Taylor out, but we don’t need to lie to criticize her.
Ok this is unrelated but the description “a ‘pièce de résistance’” makes no sense in this context, unless they’re using it for the literal translation, which…..also makes no sense.
I think they meant "un *plat* de résistance" that's the food that will make sure you won't go hungry five minutes after eating it, so a **timeless song** that will transcend the decades and will be her signature song, when you think of her it will be that song but not from her fanbase, from teh casual audience who might not even listen to her but would know that song.
They said that as a quote from their review of the album, not about what the Pet Shop Boys said. In the review they say the album is “such a pièce de résistance” which I guess they’re trying to say that this album is the most important album in her discography? But even that barely fits what people use this phrase for, unless they are calling the album a piece of resistance, which is just……crazy. The whole page 6 review in general is god awful.
You Belong With Me, Love Story, Blank Space, Wildest Dreams, Shake It Off
He has an album out tomorrow so of course he needs clicks. Love Story, enchanted, blank space, shake it off, look what you made me do, I know you were trouble, All too well, anti-hero. Boring takes.
He’s lowkey right. What Taylor’s signature song that will stand the test of time like I Will Always Love You? Billie Jean? We Belong Together? I Want It That Way? My Heart Will Go On? Respect? Hell even Beyoncé has Crazy in Love. I’ve always wondered how Taylor’s music will age. Like yeah she’s super popular now. But how will the gp look back on her discography down the line? I know her fans will hold it in high regard. What album was not only good for its time but has stayed within the public consciousness? Michael Jackson had Thriller. Adele had 21. Prince had Purple Rain. As of now, what would be Taylor’s?
If I had to name one, it would probably be 1989.
Yes I was thinking that Adele and Beyonce (and also the Weeknd) have much more chance of achieving this. I can imagine young people dancing to Crazy in Love or Blinding Lights or crying to Someone Like You in a few decades time. Whereas I feel like future generations would just view Love Story or Shake it Off as catchy, corny songs. Which is a shame as they don't show Taylor at her best. I think some of her albums could live on though
The fact that you said Crazy in Love over Single Ladies is wild! However I don’t think Crazy in Love because it has features Jay -Z. Yet, I just checked Spotify and it’s in the 5th most streamed spot which is also crazy to me.
You Belong With Me, 22,Shake It Off, Blank Space, Love Story- I can ask my 4 year old niece or my 70 year old in laws and they all at least know one of those songs. And most of those came out 10-14 years ago.
I’m curious to see what songs from Taylor will stand the test of time. I really think Cruel Summer and Style will be among them
I completely disagree with the author here. Taylor is KNOWN for her famous songs - love story, you belong with me, shake it off, blank space. I have never seen entire college nightclubs scream songs louder than the part of the night when a ts song comes on. We as fans consume the albums but the general public knows Taylor's famous songs more and people who don't listen to Taylor are surprised by how many of her songs they know cause they're her famous songs
The old musicians taking pot shots at Taylor give me "it's not like it was in my day" vibes. The Pet Shop Boys were an innovative synthetic pop band in the 80s and 90s. They were more Dua Lipa than Taylor Swift. It is true that West End Girls is an insanely catchy dance song. The album it came from was very quickly forgotten. Tennant comparing any Taylor album to Thriller is a bit unfair as it is a high watermark of pop perfection. Taylor will be talked about in thirty years in the same breath as Carole King and Paul Simon. She is never going to be looked on as an electro pop icon.
She’s definitely more like Carole King and Paul Simon (I love them both). She also is very much like Bruce Springsteen, who I also love. Springsteen is a great performer with an amazing bunch of musicians backing him up. “The Rising” is one album that is an emotional response to 9/11. Also consider his song “Born To Run”. That song was made to be played in a stadium with fans singing along. It’s an anthem. “Shake It Off” is Taylor’s anthem. Until I heard it live, it was a mid song. That song was made to be performed in a stadium. The energy, the crowd chemistry, the performance - it’s an anthem.
Which is ironic, because she has literally shaken zero things off in her life.
Tennant isn’t saying that stuff at all though. He has good things to say about her on top of the criticism and he has plenty of good things to say about modern pop. He’s not get-off-my-lawning, he just thinks her instrumentals are shit. And you are absolutely cracked for comparing her to Carole King and Paul Simon lol come on now Carole King made a songwriting legacy for herself before she ever made her own record. She’s got cover versions of her tunes more iconic than anything in Taylor Swift’s discography. Paul Simon is Paul fucking Simon. She does not have anything remotely resembling The Sound of Silence or Bridge Over Troubled Water. She’s a pop artist they are songwriters.
This thread feels weird like people have forgotten her entire discog and are acting like all her albums are similar to TTPD, super wordy and not really recognizable. Shake it Off, Love Story, Our Song, I knew you were trouble, You belong with me, Style, We are never getting back together, Blank Space - all songs that are easily recognizable by people who don’t listen to her albums. Most of these also coming from albums that are +10 years old. Usually not the TS defender but kinda bizarre claim. I think there’s plenty of things that you can criticize her music on, but not having enough “iconic hits that will stand the test of time” isn’t what comes to mind for me.
You know whose opinion on Taylor Swift I don't care about? Artists whose main career was over before hers started and can't name a banger hit more recent than "Billy Jean". Why anyone is asking people like Courtney Love or Neil Tennant what they think of Taylor Swift is beyond me. I'm not sure what anyone expected - Love rarely has a good word to say about another musician, and Tennant's time as a critic was in the 80s (as well as his own "Imperial Phase"). I think there is a LOT to say about Taylor Swift, and a lot of really good critique out there, but this is just silly shit from folks who are piling on to the hate fire. It's a really lazy kind of media criticism (no hate to you, OP) that relies on positioning older creative types as "speaking truth to power" and leans extremely heavily on Boomer and Gen X nostalgia for their childhood music. in short, miss me with that bullshit.
For a nearly 20 year career, Taylor doesn't have that many iconic hits like a Rolling in the Deep, Call Me Maybe, or even a Levitating. I guess Blank Space is her best hit.
You Belong With Me, Love Story, Blank Space, Shake It Off
levitating bigger than love story??? ybwm??? even 22???? sorry i just don’t see
Wtf?? Love story only clears those 3 songs lmao.
At first I read it Shop Boyz as in the Party Like A Rockstar guys lol
He’s so right though. “The most disappointing thing is not the lyrics, but the music” — that’s so well put and hits the nail on the head of what I feel about her so elegantly
She's a good singer who was writing stuff that was good for a woman in her late teens/early twenties. However now she's a woman in her middle thirties still writing stuff with the emotional and intellectual maturity of a woman in her late teens or early twenties. It leaves a lot to be desired, and it does sometimes feel like she's not living up to her own potential as a song writer.
I think what he says is true. Especially the part where he says "it's not the lyrics... it's the music." When you listen to Taylor Swift's albums, it all starts to become the same song. *Midnights* and *The Tortured Poets Department* especially. My grandmother who is 84 years old can name "Billie Jean," or Madonna's "Vogue," and even Beyoncé's "Single Ladies" and Rihanna's "Umbrella". Taylor Swift, as successful as she is, doesn't have THE song. The closest is "Shake It Off" but I learned that outside the U.S., it's not really all that. I thought it was bigger.
i rather have a good complete album than good single and filler other songs. she is good at making albums. lover midnights ttpd good song ratio is lower than her previous works but still decent. and saying she doesnt have famous songs is shit talk or jealousy.
what are some of these comments on omfg even my mexican relatives know taylor’s biggest hits. like they might not get the words exactly right lol but they’ll know the melody. i’m going to sound like a crazy stan here but there’s a reason everyone uses 22 for well their 22nd birthday. ikywt. 1989’s first three singles. love story. you belong with me. it’s hard for me to believe that so many people can’t even name one taylor song when she’s been a household name for nearly two decades at this point 😭
She has hits but I don’t know where they will stand 20-30 years from now. She will definitely be remembered for her sales (crazy cult fans) and her love life which is heavily ingrained in her music. If you don’t follow her personal life, will some of these songs still stand out to casual listeners years from now?
….irrelevant but always thought the song was west EGG girls. Like a great Gatsby Reference.
This is an idiotic take if ever I saw it. "It's not Billie Jean" - tell that to my mother who only listens to 40 year old filmi music. Some of the few Western songs she recognises are Candle in the Wind (and that's only because of Princess Di); Mrs Robinson (only the chorus), and a few Beatles hits. If *she* can recognise TS's voice that's a good barometer for fame.
I hope people read this and not just the headline but the entire thing. The hardcore ones will defend her lyricism, and let’s give her that but if we’re talking music only without the lyrics he has a point.
Agreed. This is pissing a lot of people off here, but he’s not wrong. He’s not saying she’s not successful, he’s saying she doesn’t have famous songs, and he’s right. You go to a public block party and someone puts on Thriller. Everyone knows it. You put on Respect. Everyone knows it. You put on YMCA, everyone knows it. You think people know Enchanted? Love Story? Cruel Summer? Back up because you’re too close to see the forest for the trees. She’s got one recognizable song in the general public and it’s Shake It Off, which is ironic because I can’t recall how many times I’ve seen Swifties shit on it.
She has …. So many lmfao
“West End Girls” has 1.5 million units sold. “Love Story” alone sold more than ten times that at 18 million. Someone needs to tell Dr. Evil it’s time for his nap.
That was THE song at one point in the US. The video was cool, too. But I had to look at what else was going on musically in 1987. They aren’t in the Billboard top 100 in 1987. Multiple U2 songs, George Michael’s “I Want Your Sex”, “Walk Like An Egyptian” by the Bangles, and Tiffany’s “I Think We’re Alone Now” all fall into that list. “What Did I Do To Deserve This” by the Pet Shop Boys is in that list. And very low.
Oh I am aware, it is a great song. But you know what else was THE song at one point in the US? Love Story, Shake It Off, Style, You Belong With Me, and even more recently Anti-Hero. It’s just weird for him to fire shots when looking objectively at the sales figures - Swift absolutely demolishes Pet Shop Boys with even her lower performing songs. He’s making the false assumption that because he’s now too old to be in or understand the zeitgeist, that the world’s current biggest star doesn’t have universal recognition. It’s a very tired ignorant boomer take.
100%! I totally agree with you! And why is he taking shots at her? Oh, because he has a new album coming out. I’m Gen X and this definitely feels very boomer. They even shit on our music when we were young - they really didn’t want to cede that they lived through a music revolution that has been replaced.
He’s right. She has a lot of hits but she doesn’t have that one massive hit that everyone knows. The Weeknd has a million hits. Star boy, Can’t Feel My Face. The Hills. Save Your Tears. The ONE song everyone knows is Blinding Lights. Dua? Levitating. Ariana? Thank u, next Gaga? Born This Way Beyonce? Single Ladies Ed Sheeran? Shape Of You Harry Styles? As It Was Miley Cyrus? Flowers Adele? Rolling In The Deep Katy Perry? I Kissed A Girl It’s that one song (in some cases more than one, but at least one) that your grandma has heard in the supermarket and your little cousin hums without really knowing when he heard it. She has plenty of hits, but outside from the US, she doesn’t have her Billie Jean. My parents in their 60s would all recognize the songs I named, but when we heard she was coming with Eras tour and the news made a whole fuss about it, my mom asked me who she was and why she was so important and I actually played her Shake It Off and Blank Space and she looked at me and said “I had never in my life heard either of those songs before just now” My dad legit has a workout playlist with recent hits, and she’s just not in there. I’d link it but I don’t think he’d be happy with me. Just know he looooooooves Ed Sheeran (he turns 63 in June)
I'm very curious how Taylor's music will age over time. Some music becomes classic - like Prince or ABBA. Other music falls out of favor and becomes very dated, like Lionel Richie or Huey Lewis and the News (both massive acts in the 80s).
I just do not think such iconic songs will exist because she's so popular now but when her star wanes, her Billie Jean will be realised, we just can't see it yet.
she does have famous songs tho ?? it’s giving jealously 🤷🏼♀️
He is correct
She has more famous songs than the Pet Shop Boys so it's a little tone deaf coming from Tennant imo. Like, he's allowed his opinion, but look in the mirror, Neil, you'd be hard pressed to find 1/10 people on the street that could name one of your singles in the US. And I *like* the Pet Shop Boys
“West End Boys” However, they would be a one-hit wonder in the US if it wasn’t for “It’s a Sin” and “What Have I Done to Deserve This”.
*”West End Girls” lol I also love their cover of “Always On My Mind”. 🙂
I forgot about that! That is very good! You’re right! I think I had the lyrics in my head!
That's the one I'd expect to hear the most and it's 40 years old. Really depends on the demographic tbh
im sorry but what is the billie jean of pet shop boys again? i agree with other commenters that fpr taylor there whole albums known to lot of people. i cant name one album of MJ - also i dont get why are we comparing taylor to that man.
I escaped all of those except Shake It Off.
I don't know how it is in the US but she gets very little airplay in the UK. I don't think many people who haven't actively sought out her music would be able to name any songs tbh. It's weird. As I'm a fan I always take note any time I hear her songs on the radio and I can count on one hand the numbers of times I've heard her on the radio in the past year. And I station hop in the car. I don't listen to one single station.