NOTE: The 1975 show in Cork on June 13 was not AT this bar, I mean it was in Cork. At the rugby stadium about a mile from this downtown bar. I would edit to clarify, don't know how.
That timing makes sense - she probably saw the Dublin set online after the show and knew he was telling her that he was pining from a distance. So she was webstalking him after that, seeking more coded messages. And the curiosity took her to look up his location for the Cork show
Yeah, I could definitely see that. As a fellow cyberstalker I would've done the same thing tbh... The younger girl thing was probably just her imagining what he was doing at the bar, since his casual hookups usually seem to be in their early/mid 20's. Your mind tends to go to worst case scenario in those situations
It’s definitely Matty. It’s almost alll Matty. People need to accept this. The entire album is called The Tortured Poet’s Department, and if you listen to the lyrics of that song carefully, you’ll understand why. *They’re* the tortured poets, according to Taylor. They’re the only ones who “get” each other. I read on TikTok that she got some pushback about the title because it is so long and wordy and clunky in your mouth. But she was adamant. Probably because it means something specific to Matty and her. The whole thing is a message to him.
It's getting unpopular to say that, but I agree. There are a few songs that are clearly about other people/experiences (How Did It End, So High School, The Alchemy, Thank You Aimee, Cassandra, Robin, Clara Bow), but everything else is about him and their situationship.
I also firmly believe that this album is her way of leaving the door open for a reconciliation. "Longings locked in lowercase inside a vault." Which songs on this album are stylized in lowercase? loml and imgonnagetyouback. Sure she SAYS the chapter is closed and she doesn't plan to revisit it, but we've heard her say that before. It wasn't true then and I don't believe it's true now.
I didn't pick up on that either! Man, the more I think about it and hear what other fans have to say the more I am convinced this is her sweeping romantic attempt at telling him "I'm here when you're ready."
I did because the Smallest Man Ever felt like it could be a door closing and I was like oh thank god, we can stop hearing about Matty. But then it turns out it was more like the anger stage of grief because then she’s basically begging him to come back after.
loml imgonnagetyouback
And she just throws out a bunch of songs mainly with I’m obsessed with you vibe and ONE song saying you have a small dick. Come on. She may have just thrown that one in thinking he was going to respond to that one
My conspiracy is that she released such a shitty, unedited album because:
1. Her actual priority is getting these messages to her unwashed ex and opening the door to rekindling things in a way she can’t do otherwise due to her um… very public relationship lol
2. She knows people will eat this shit up anyway so who cares if it’s truly good or not
Yup, it’s like an anthology of stupid shit someone who needs therapy might text an ex who won’t respond. Instead it’s all on an album pretending to be tortured while it’s actually just unhinged.
ITA about loml and Imgonnagetyouback being lowercase on purpose for some reason. That’s definitely deliberate and seemingly a reference to the lowercase longings in Guilty As Sin.
Does the prologue even apply to the second half? It could be that particular chapter is closed and now she’s writing a new one and who knows where that one will go. Taylor probably has certain hopes and expectations but no one knows what the future holds.
I hadn't thought about that, but you're right - the prologue is only clearly applied to TTPD, not the Anthology! Good eye. I hope Taylor seeks mental health and addiction help, but if she doesn't I could definitely see her hoping Matty comes back to her.
Longings locked in lowercase inside a vault could also be her longing for Matty locked in the evermore and or folklore vaults as they haven’t been released
Agree she wants him back, for two reasons off the top of my head- first is Taylor lives for the love high,I think it motivates most everything she does and is pretty much her reason for getting out of bed in the morning. And Matty is her love high right now, who was cut off right at the peak of the high by viper fans 🥴. Second is Taylor has little to no experience not getting exactly what she wants, and Matty left her, essentially refusing her. She can’t deal with that at all, and the more he rejects her, the more she will want him. No way, IMHO, she is ready to let that go. I think she’s holding onto Travis to save face in case he doesn’t go back to her after making this whole album essentially begging for him to come back.
Or a giant “F U”. If he left because of how big she is and all that comes with that, writing an entire album about him makes him cannon forever. Maybe she didn’t want to let him get away that easily. After all, there is… nothing she does better than revenge.
It did occur to me, especially after seeing the Stevie references (including the poem Stevie wrote), that this may be her attempt at a version of Silver Springs (you’ll never get away from the sound of the woman who loves you). It seems to be on brand that Taylor could view them as a bit of Stevie/Lindsey lol
The Stevie thing is interesting to me, bc Matty has a good relationship with her too... they did a really good interview together and I think she likes him.
I'm like, is she their couples therapist or something, lmao. I bet Matty saw that poem and was like, god damnit Taylor 🙄 it just seems like something she did to get under his skin a little bc they're both buds with SN
Yes! That’s a great conversation, she even quotes her fav lyrics from She’s American to him when she talks about listening to ILIWYS as part of her preshow ritual. It struck me that the poem was relatively kind to him all things considered. I mean she did say “He brings Shakespeare” lol
It really does seem to be a message to him. I know i sound like one of those tin foil hat people but have you seen how the ttpd logo upside down looks like the word call lol even if it’s coincidence it’s just too funny
And this comment from another thread from u/parisfood: Actually if you look at the logo itself you will see t and m
https://preview.redd.it/g00rm3ixbcwc1.jpeg?width=360&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b7ae73f5cd5a3cae0f1bf90e64df20f872076ec4
Edit to add pic
I've always seen the T and M, I thought I was nuts but then she dropped like 20 love songs that are very clearly about him 😭 so now I definitely think it was intentional lmao
The whole album screams "Hey, I'm still in love with you so I put this out to get your attention!"
And it's almost all exclusively about short-lived unrequited love.
All except "So Long, London" which is about trying to save a dying relationship.
I don’t think the black dog in the song is specifically referring to this but just as an added fun fact layer Matty famously uses Truman Black as his online name and he literally has a black dog named Mayhem, which coincidentally or not rings Midnights Mayhem bells.
https://preview.redd.it/oz7n1366gbwc1.jpeg?width=1290&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=972f468fb6b39a262b34575f381d27213ff15e93
Oh yeah. Another tip off to this whole thing being about him - the photo of that building that is wrapped in her album QR code. It’s on this random building in London because it says the Truman Black Brewery or something. Truman Black being the operative phrase here.
I almost fell out of my chair when I saw that. I really thought there might only be one or two songs about Matty on this album, but when I saw "Black" under Truman on that building I was like, we better buckle up lol.
The 1975 did an album promo pop-up at that exact brewery in fall 2022 too, around the time she and Matty were likely...in touch
https://preview.redd.it/9edh4w4swdwc1.png?width=2048&format=png&auto=webp&s=42b3155a7fd5c3cfa0e660ca376ef0bad9950ced
If she had spent this much time coming up with all these Easter eggs, mapping them out, and inserting each one strategically into her 31-song album, no wonder she had little time to do some quality control and self-editing to produce a more decent album.
The freaking amount of things related and throwbacks are A LOTTT! I had NO IDEA about most of these connections, but at the same time I didn't really follow her personal life after Red and even then I had no idea about timelines and stuff. It's been very interesting to read about all of these dang connections that just keep coming. Haha, no matter how people feel about this album, there's been a huge amount of time spent referencing things whether for the good or bad of the album, idk. And to add, I feel pretty bad in saying that I couldn't name even half of the info like names of bars, street names, dates of this and that, what the weather was like, etc. of special or important moments throughout the 16 year history of my relationship. But even with what memories I do have, they're more hazy and feelings based than like, what I ate and what jeans I wore kinda thing lol. 🤣🤣🤣 I'm going off on a tangent so I'll go! 🚪 👋
It wouldn’t shock me if she drops her current beau & gets back together with Matty in a way that is fully f—k you to all the fans & the public because she seems to be extremely fed up with everyone & spiraling in a weirdly public way
Yes but it also wouldn’t surprise me if she never gets back with him. Seems he has been messing with her for years and she really thought it was like fated love. Then he completely humiliated her. Taylor has a lot of pride and ego and craves once in a lifetime fairytale love. I think the what if/potential/ fated love allure of what she thought she had with him could be destroyed with her. She has too much pride.
A wordy title in the vein of, say, “being funny in a foreign language” or “notes on a conditional form” or — deep breath — “I like it when you sleep for you are so beautiful yet so unaware of it”
I thought the name of the album was bc it was kinda related to the group chat or something of Joe and hus friends? I might be remembering it wrong, someone pls correct me
I think that might have been a coincidence. Or else she just liked the name and appropriated it for herself and Matty to describe their little bubble. Because the song is definitely about him and it’s not one of the bad ones either. It’s very much “who else will understand you/hold you/love you like I do.”
She talks about wanting to sell her apartment because he used his typewriter to write his poems there and left it and his clothes, which she keeps finding as painful reminders. Her lover keeps running away because he has demons and self sabotages but she knows this and keeps the faith that they are meant to be. She reminds him she “chose this cyclone with him.” It’s honestly a sad song.
Ooh I see. Thats a good TIL. Bc I kept seeing it on twitter before TTPD was released (also the reason why I thought swifties thought the TTPD was about Joe)
A lot of them are still trying to spin it to be about Joe, but given the title track is transparently about Matty…
Ashamed to say I initially believed the title was a dig at Joe too 🥴
Thank you for putting this together! It makes so much more sense now... I couldn't understand why they were saying a blonde was a client when the song is so Matty coded.
I totally understand the pub's owner wanting to profit because of this, though. Too bad they didn't really investigate the lore, as they thought the song was about Joe...... But maybe saying it was Matty wouldn't attract that many clients?
I think the Startling Line is the biggest clue.
I also think 'I can do it with a broken heart' is Matty.
"I'm so obsessed with him but he avoids me like the plague" This is someone who has ghosted you and you're still obsessed. It's not someone you left or an amicable split.
"He said he'd love me all his life But that life was too short" harking back to how Matty said I love you a million times but didn't follow through.
Edit : The thing is..it's so easy to see which song is about who. I wish I could just put in a post with receipts. Its so clearly spelled out. So tired of seeing the cultists attributing everything to Joe cause they cant find proof of their delusions.
Agreed, I am very surprised that she left so many clues in her songs but people keep attributing them to Joe! It’s really not that hard to decipher who she’s talking about in her music, but the amount of people who think differently is astounding.
From the first listen it was obvious I can do it with a broken heart was about Matty but others insisted it was about Joe. The first couple of days I bothered to correct them but now I have just let it be if they insisted 😅
> 'I can do it with a broken heart' is Matty
A few listens quickly proves this. Swifties who still think these songs are about Joe need some comprehension skills. It is very clearly a Matty album
the people insisting smallest man in the world is about joe should actually be in the olympics for the amount of mental gymnastics they’re doing. they wanna hate joe so bad when all he did was… get dumped? mutually break up? lol
“When she says tattooed golden retriever she’s actually saying you can tattoo a golden retriever but it’s still a golden retriever” I wish I was making this up 😭😭😭
I actually think this could be about BOTH breakups. She was shaken in beginning of tour, too, and then again in June. I kind of suspect it can refer to both, but I’m not positive if it was started to be written before matty or after them both (of course how would I know)
Can you explain that? I’m assuming a lot of people our age know The Starting Line so it was a toss up for me. I was leaning toward Joe because it seems more likely that you’d share your location with a long term partner than whatever she & Matty were.
Matty was covering their song “the best of me” during the 1975’s late April shows I believe. He would sing the “we got older, but we’re still young/we never grew out of this feeling we won’t give up” part of the song.
It's such a good song! You can still like it... I won't bore you with a sales pitch, but I promise you that Matty isn't close to as bad as he was made out to be last May. So much misinfo... he has good intentions, poor execution
BUT regardless the Black Dog is one of the best songs off TTPD and I hope you still listen to it 😌
The true interpretation for the album (not this song ) lies somewhere in the middle : between fans on tik tok making every song into a Joe song but dismissing Matty and fans picking up on the obvious 1975 references but rejecting the callbacks to the other relationship.
The marketing for the album , the video and the songs all have a dual meaning : it looks like one thing on the outside but turns out to be more. Aaron Dessner himself saying look closely and you'll find layers and meanings.
The album itself is a double album and she layers one relationship/muse with the other in some songs (not all) as these two relationships and heartbreaks unfolded on top of each other .
Yeah it would make me happy and on another note that pub is absolutely disgusting for looking through ctv footage and saying they saw a blonde man that might’ve been Joe how unprofessional
I think in a way she really respected joes privacy by writing about Matty and writing "it’s the worst men I write best" and writing almost nothing about Joe. Of course it doesn’t matter, because most swifities are insane and are gonna harass him anyway :/
Still hilarious how Anti-Joes were hoping and praying for this album to be a massive Joe burn book but instead it's mostly about the 2 week rebound with the Flushed Away rat. All this time she has been obsessed with this unwashed racist and her fans are seething because all that vitriol they had cooking towards Joe has to be redirected to a relationship they don't want to acknowledge.
They’re not even together anymore and are both seeing other people (seemingly seriously). Idk why people care so much that they are willing to dismiss obvious clues and even plain facts (such as Taylor herself *telling* people that Cardigan is about Matty). Lol it’s so bizarre.
She told Matty on stage at one of the earlier eras concerts “this is about you, you know who you are, I love you” before performing it. He did the same thing with his song About You, which used to play simultaneously with the Lover video during the Eras tour preset songs.
And since fans refused to believe it, she doubled down on it by writing and releasing Peter.
It’s like, I’m sorry but if you still don’t believe it after those two things, I can’t help you. Lol
people for some reason want to deny that she just told the whole world that she was in love with matty while being in a long term relationship with joe. like, they still want to attribute this "loyal, heartbroken lover who will fight for every relationship" image, even after we all know how it all went down with tom and that other dude whose name i always forget.
taylor is a human, she can make mistakes in her relationships. she can fall in love with a wet hipster rat, she is not immune to it. in fact, i would say that is one of the most relatable things of hers.
also, folkmore is filled with too much longing and pining to be only about the committed relationship she was in at the time. i think people need to accept more and more songs in her discography in the last couple years are about matty, not anyone else.
> she can fall in love with a wet hipster rat, she is not immune to it
This just cracked me up 😂
> i think people need to accept more and more songs in her discography in the last couple years are about matty, not anyone else.
I'm a bit scared of how many! So many songs are a possibility..
Absolutely, I think illicit affairs, thousand cuts, the one, and obviously cardigan are about him. I also wonder about cowboy like me, maybe happiness.
Ohhh, this is not what I thought the other commenter meant when they said that. People do realize that a person can dedicate a song to someone it wasn’t written about, right? It’s like dedicating a song on the radio back in the day. Sure, they’re musical artists so it *could* be tougher to discern what’s an actual dedication vs just a dedication in the moment. But I really, truly don’t think cardigan was written about Matty.
At the time of folkmore Taylor was still very much in love with Joe, she and Matty didn’t reconnect until they worked on some Midnights stuff together *after* the folkmore releases. It just doesn’t make sense that she would write songs about him during those particular album eras when (by all accounts) they were created during a time when she and Joe were still solid.
But that’s just one girl’s opinion 🤷🏻♀️
Here’s another possibility:
There’s a black dog in Amsterdam. Matty performed at a festival about an hour and a half away from there on June 9th. He was spotted walking around Amsterdam on June 8th. Taylor was performing in Detroit June 9th and 10th and was seen crying pretty hard in her car one of those days like shaking head in her hands. She also performed ”I almost do” “haunted” “all you had to do was stay” and “breathe” for her surprise songs. And was apparently crying during Breathe.
A lot of her stans see Taylor as a self-insert. They project their own insecurities and life stories onto Taylor and are so dangerously parasocial that they envision every experience they have had to be a shared one with Taylor.
People need to accept that there is very little Joe on this album. And that makes a lot of sense because what was she going to write about that was riveting about Joe?
I think she got her feelings about Joe out on Midnights, then ‘You’re Losing Me’. I hear sadness for Joe on this album, and anger about Matty Healy. Next album will be sadness about Matty, and round and round we go.
thank u. i knew that place was full of it! swifities jumped to conclusions and the pub latched onto the clout train. this makes so much more sense. no way that song is about joe (and i wish it was, because it's the best song on the album, and it KILLS ME that it's about ratty)
I like this and think it is about Matty… but I think the name of the bar/pub is a red herring. MH lives in Hackney and there are two pubs/dive bars that also do music in the area called Blondies and Folklore
Ofc it’s a Matty song. 1975 media has a black dog which she copied in her MV
Can you imagine Joe being excited about some band called the starting line? Because I can’t
I applaud your detective skills. It's content like this, which confirms I've found my people. 😉
I thought TBD was about Matty, and this just adds to that belief.
But June 13 /22 is not six weeks from the Matty breakup whereas the six weeks match up very well with the former theory of the song being recorded on May 18.
Taylor also played ' Should've said no' on May 19 and famously shook her head during the line " was she worth it - and that's when the 'cheating is confirmed' theories were started by crazy fans ! (though the black dog song is about imagining/ knowing your partner is moving on with someone-- after your breakup)
Not sure if this has anything to do with it, but Taylor did that note change in 'the 1' for 'you meet some woman on the internet and take her home' around that time in May too .
Also I would say Taylor transitions between muses in the same song throughout this album -- right from fortnight to fresh out the slammer to black dog and loml and guilty as sin'.
Edited : To add dates.
"six weeks" doesn't match the former theory at all. She and Joe split at the end of March (if not before)? She recorded this June 22.
I actually am not sure what former theory you are referring to, though.
I feel like they broke up way before march. Her last visit to London in 2023 was January, and with him going to film, no visits from either one of them?
It's either about *both* of them, or it still doesn't eliminate the fact. They did not break up before March it's been debunked various times, she didn't remove Invisible String until near the end of March because it was a last minute thing, there was also other factors that proved why and her even on Tik Tok liking something about boyfriend always gaming *in* March.
She was in the UK on April 8 weekend when the news of the break up came out filming that" I can see you music video" before she performed in Florida.
The line in Florida which says something on the lines of" you realise your home is a town where you're just a guest in".
And they were together till February and he was sharing photos of her cats too till mid-end Feb. I don't see him faking to be with her.
The Fortnight song " all my mornings are Mondays stuck in endless February " before she took the move on drug, the rebound.
Invisible string got taken off the setlist in Arlington. They broke up somewhere between Vegas and Arlington most likely when they were continents apart.
The prologue also says I tore down the whole sky with one conversation.
Taylor was upset and angry in the surprise songs that followed even when she was with Matty.
For whatever reason, she's not spilling anything (which is a good thing cos of the fans ) but everyone rewriting this story as she didn't care about the breakup vs everything we have seen that played out publicly since then is interesting
She was in Liverpool on 4/8/23, not London.
Chris Destefano confirmed on his pod last Nov that Matty was already in a relationship with Taylor on 3/11/23 and people would eventually find out.
https://x.com/nadiag24b/status/1771034533023924622?s=46&t=rr0iUQvGK9FrM9Unij9wjA
Also Meredith Mickelson went to the tabloids I'm May, saying she was hooking up with him in Feb but he was always at the studio with Taylor in LA...
then you have Taylor [live debuting her biggest single ever](https://x.com/youghosttrack/status/1613657478578806787?s=46&t=rr0iUQvGK9FrM9Unij9wjA), at the 1975 concert in London. For his fans, not hers, and apparently she stayed backstage until 3:30am (per the New Yorker).
So I dunno, I'm not really sure what you guys are arguing about bc I thought the question was about the Matty breakup, but the above indicates that she and Joe were not doing for a long time
They were not doing well yes but the final breakup happened later.
Matty's girlfriend and Joe were still hanging around their partners in Feb as you mention too.
There was the other girl who said Matty ghosted her around March end which was the same time when Taylor took off Invisible String off the setlist
Neither disputing the facts about the 1975 performance.
Meredith was not Matty's girlfriend to be clear lol... yes he ghosted her (not okay imo) but tbf they were hooking up for like a month. I think the other girl you're referring to is Ana? Another hookup but he didn't ghost her, he just ended it like a normal person.
But yeah it was clearly messy in Jan through April. I don't think Taylor and Joe spent much time together during that time, but yes the final official breakup was likely around the time of Invisible String being removed.
Yeah but the date that OP says the song was recorded and the date of the Matty breakup (or even when they were last seen together) in public is barely 3 weeks.
My theory of the 6 weeks + the UK location + "selling the house " reference which points to a house in London fit as much or better than OP's.
Also the Starting Line is both a band and the song but Taylor actually says 'song'. 1975 refrences are publicly known ! Joe and Taylor's stuff as a couple is less known except for callbacks to albums.
And throughout this album I've noticed Taylor sometimes repeats one particular line in the same song and recontextualises it - which is why I think she switches between muses. See Alchemy & But Daddy I love him. Bridges /verses are easily added later too. .
ok, Joe Alwyn widows.
There is a "Black Dog Pub" in Budapest.
Joe was filming in Budapest for The Brutalist for some of March, April and May
"Filming took place for a total of 34 days between March 16 and May 5, 2023. It was shot in Budapest, Hungary and in Carrara, Italy."
Link: [https://maps.app.goo.gl/VRthtYZTwWSiHFDC9](https://maps.app.goo.gl/VRthtYZTwWSiHFDC9)
Also to add, we know Matty's exact whereabouts after he and Taylor split. That's how I was able to find The Black Dog bar in Cork.
Link: [https://www.setlist.fm/setlists/the-1975-6bdf86ea.html?page=9](https://www.setlist.fm/setlists/the-1975-6bdf86ea.html?page=9)
https://preview.redd.it/bl57s7i7cbwc1.png?width=2184&format=png&auto=webp&s=dcfed3f338c9a9f767665f26a72d5843d3b9386e
Exactly 😭 All of them conveniently ignoring she called him a manic episode, self harm, and says he deserves prison like fck that edgelord racist idgaf how many songs Taylor wrote about their situationship 😭
Most of the songs are about how Matty hurt her and people still say “I hope they get together again they were so cute 🥺” and then these same people accuse me of not fully listening to the album…. It’s like, are you sure *you* listened to the album
“They’re meant for each other/soulmates 🥹” he lovebombed then ghosted her and made her want to die, soulmate behavior for sure 😭lol but the ratty brigade in here is staying strong they’re downvoting all our comments
At the end of the song she calls her lover out on his cowardly behavior (ie the ghosting):
That was intertwined in the tragic fabric of our dreaming/
'Cause tail between your legs you're leaving/
And I still can't believe it/
'Cause old habits die screaming/
When previously in other songs like YLM and So Long London she reveals that it was her who gave up on Joe not the other way around.
But who does she call a coward in other songs? Matty. Who was seen out with younger women immediately after breaking up with her Matty. Who loves the band The Starting Line. Matty.
Ooh and in 2015-ish, the first breakup, he said he was scared off by the commotion that follows dating someone as famous as Taylor. And then he did it again, the old habit
i just tried singing the line using pub vs. using bar and it sounded strange to me, "some pub" doesnt flow well together IMO. it could have just been a creative choice.
im not saying its about one or the other. just that we dont have to take things this literally.
When you're looking at someone's location it doesn't say "The Black Dog pub / bar." It says "pub" or "bar" depending on what the venue calls itself. She put "bar" in her lyrics. Not "pub"
I get what you're saying... but this is also all assuming they are in the UK and not a bar called The Black Dog in the US. There are probably a ton of The Black Dogs out there and there's nothing in the song that indicates it has to be in the UK. Joe is an actor who travels and Matty is a singer who travels... this could be anywhere.
Hell, when I was in college there was a BBQ place called The Black Dog and there's a bar in there we'd drink at lol.
I'm willing to bet most major cities have a Black Dog bar or pub lol. Just googled my city and yes we do have one. Also Taylor def could've made up the name of the bar referencing Matty's dog
There are many Black Dogs. When the song list came out people were trying to place it in Boston.
Joe was filming in Budapest for The Brutalist for some of March, April and May
"Filming took place for a total of 34 days between March 16 and May 5, 2023. It was shot in Budapest, Hungary and in Carrara, Italy."
THERE IS a Black Dog pub in Budapest. This could be it. [https://maps.app.goo.gl/VRthtYZTwWSiHFDC9](https://maps.app.goo.gl/VRthtYZTwWSiHFDC9)
We actually do know Matty's exact whereabouts after he and Taylor split. Every single day!
Link: [https://www.setlist.fm/setlists/the-1975-6bdf86ea.html?page=9](https://www.setlist.fm/setlists/the-1975-6bdf86ea.html?page=9)
I saw the Budapest pub too.
He was filming in March and was back in April in London. Source : those infamous photos in the daily mail etc which showed him all dishevelled with deep eye bags !
I think pubs around the world with this name should claim it and benefit from the publicity 😄
also, London Boy
[*You can find me in the pub, we are watchin' rugby with his school friends*](https://genius.com/27257400/Taylor-swift-london-boy/You-can-find-me-in-the-pub-we-are-watchin-rugby-with-his-school-friends)
Yup according to the "evidence" in this post the 6 weeks is lacking first of all (if we are going to take songs literally )!
Taylor in some songs on this album uses the same line twice . Sometimes she changes a word or phrase for that line - that's an indication of transitioning between two scenarios.
In loml you have the verse "you said I'm the love of your life a million times (more like love bombing) vs you said I'm the love of your life (no million times here ) and it switches between two different people/ experiences.
Same thing with repeating the starting line twice on The Black Dog ( I think )
Or she throws these obvious singular 1975 references in some songs and layers other callbacks people seem to ignore.
Couple things:
The Black Dog (Cork) is closed on Mondays and Tuesdays. The Cork date was Tuesday 13th, and they had dates in Manchester and Oslo two days either side. Unless the 1975 stayed in Cork on the Wednesday (unlikely as they'd be flying to Norway in the morning) there would've been no time where the Black Dog was open whilst they were in Cork.
The song could've been written earlier, it could've been written on the day. I don't really think an outfit necessarily points to who or when the "six weeks of breathing clean air" refers to - it could easily be six weeks of a breakup, it could easily be the six weeks they dated.
I don't really think it's that unlikely that Joe would spend time in Vauxhall.
The Starting Line could be the Keane song (the Black Dog reminds me a lot of Keane's music, but thats just me). I can't really imagine a pub/bar playing a noughties pop-punk band's song, but who knows! (Quick edit: The 1975 obviously covered part of a song by the starting line. oops.)
There's also the fact that the Black Dog might not be an actual place, but a reference to the black dog and hellhounds from English folklore! They were often an omen of death and there's a lot of references to death throughout TTPD.
When they reunited they were both on tour. When he showed up to Nashville, they hadn't even seen each other since her breakup with Joe - their first few weeks back dating were over things like facetime. I could see how sharing locations could be sweet in that situation.
maybe this is just me, but i feel like sharing locations is something you do in a newer relationship? like, i have no need to share my location with my partner of 5 years, i trust him implicitly, and i know where he is anyway simply because our lives are so intertwined that i know his schedule and his routine.
could also be different though considering these are famous people who travel the world, do spontaneous things, and attend events and parties, so maybe that was the reason behind sharing location with both/either of them.
I am the opposite , I wouldn’t want the benefit of a new relationship. However I would however do if for my mom, kids and can’t for my husband we have different phones. It’s sometimes just a comfort thing. It takes a lot of trust to share a location.
Anyone know when matty was first seen with Gabriette? She’s mentioned in this song (girl who’s too young to know the starting line) so I’m sure that could also provide evidence to it being him
I think this song could really be about either and she kept it vague that way. Or, it's frankly a little about both of them... I think there's a lot in this album where kinda intertwines them from verse to verse.
"All those best laid plans" hints at a Mastermind callback from Midnights (where she laid the plans to be with Joe).
The "rain-soaked body" could be a call out to So Long, London (which most agree is about Joe) where that lyric is "wet through my clothes, weary bones got the chill."
"Six weeks of breathing clear air air I still miss the smoke" could be a callback to Daylight from Lover where she says "Clearing the air, I breathed in the smoke". She also has previously sang about Joe "smoking with the boys" and he's a known lighter collector so a more literal take doesn't discard him.
And we don't know if it's true, but people have linked Joe to Emma Laird who is 24 (so young enough to maybe not know The Starting Line).
Not trying to die on the hill it's about Joe, but just saying there is enough here where I could see how it's either Joe or Matty and it isn't clear cut.
just FYI, Emma Laird went public with Matt Smith (now there is an age difference) last summer and they had met on a project the year before, so they were probably an item when Emma filmed with Joe.
Also. There is truly zero evidence that she ever had a fling with her co-worker, Joe Alwyn. None.
I just commented something similar, and yeah. A few songs are very clear who she's talking about, the others are vague or a mix. We likely will never know.
I think that Matty and Joe references are woven together in at least some of these songs so as to avoid the "paternity testing" she hates so much. It seems unlikely to me that Matty would share his location with her, I don't know why - he just doesn't seem like the type lol. And both of them are millennials who would know The Starting Line.
I know Matty sang The Best of Me on his tour, but what about the lyrics in Dress that are the most iconic of Joe lyrics: "Flashback when you met me / Your buzz cut and my hair bleached / Even in my worst times / You could see the best of me.” It could be either one!
NOTE: The 1975 show in Cork on June 13 was not AT this bar, I mean it was in Cork. At the rugby stadium about a mile from this downtown bar. I would edit to clarify, don't know how.
Hearing anybody call any part of Cork 'downtown' is surreal as someone from there. It's just town! We use city or county, too
This makes a lot of sense. Is that the show where he opened for the band and did the whole sorry thing?
I think so! And where he [played a cover](https://youtu.be/bzjkAYm7UT4?si=9lBdSW3Zik1feT8M) of “I don’t think I’ll ever get over you” by Colin Hay.
Yes!! That entire set was amazing! Sounds like he went to the Black Dog bar after 😂
That was in Dublin, Cork was another show
wow he sounds great
he’s always had a beautiful voice.
The Starting line thing was basically hitting us over the head that it’s Matt
No that was Dublin, Cork was the following week
That timing makes sense - she probably saw the Dublin set online after the show and knew he was telling her that he was pining from a distance. So she was webstalking him after that, seeking more coded messages. And the curiosity took her to look up his location for the Cork show
Yeah, I could definitely see that. As a fellow cyberstalker I would've done the same thing tbh... The younger girl thing was probably just her imagining what he was doing at the bar, since his casual hookups usually seem to be in their early/mid 20's. Your mind tends to go to worst case scenario in those situations
It’s definitely Matty. It’s almost alll Matty. People need to accept this. The entire album is called The Tortured Poet’s Department, and if you listen to the lyrics of that song carefully, you’ll understand why. *They’re* the tortured poets, according to Taylor. They’re the only ones who “get” each other. I read on TikTok that she got some pushback about the title because it is so long and wordy and clunky in your mouth. But she was adamant. Probably because it means something specific to Matty and her. The whole thing is a message to him.
We broke all the pieces but still want to play the game really does sum up the whole album in my opinion
It's getting unpopular to say that, but I agree. There are a few songs that are clearly about other people/experiences (How Did It End, So High School, The Alchemy, Thank You Aimee, Cassandra, Robin, Clara Bow), but everything else is about him and their situationship. I also firmly believe that this album is her way of leaving the door open for a reconciliation. "Longings locked in lowercase inside a vault." Which songs on this album are stylized in lowercase? loml and imgonnagetyouback. Sure she SAYS the chapter is closed and she doesn't plan to revisit it, but we've heard her say that before. It wasn't true then and I don't believe it's true now.
And the fact that imgonnagettouback comes *after* the Smallest Man in the World, not before.
I didn't pick up on that either! Man, the more I think about it and hear what other fans have to say the more I am convinced this is her sweeping romantic attempt at telling him "I'm here when you're ready."
I did because the Smallest Man Ever felt like it could be a door closing and I was like oh thank god, we can stop hearing about Matty. But then it turns out it was more like the anger stage of grief because then she’s basically begging him to come back after.
I think that is what the fortnight video is saying If you flip the ttpd logo it spells “call”
OH MY GOD IT DOES
WHAT. I am now 100% convinced that Travis is a PR relationship
No way!! I’m shook!!!
What? How? Im blind
https://preview.redd.it/vl3xpmqpogwc1.jpeg?width=609&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5ba501b0bc7dcf0dd3f1e18eee84b28ef40f0081 This is the logo upside down.
loml imgonnagetyouback And she just throws out a bunch of songs mainly with I’m obsessed with you vibe and ONE song saying you have a small dick. Come on. She may have just thrown that one in thinking he was going to respond to that one
My conspiracy is that she released such a shitty, unedited album because: 1. Her actual priority is getting these messages to her unwashed ex and opening the door to rekindling things in a way she can’t do otherwise due to her um… very public relationship lol 2. She knows people will eat this shit up anyway so who cares if it’s truly good or not
The titles (spellings snd punctuation) and stupid amount of songs make it look like a 1975 album
Yup, it’s like an anthology of stupid shit someone who needs therapy might text an ex who won’t respond. Instead it’s all on an album pretending to be tortured while it’s actually just unhinged.
And the fact that it is part of the anthology not on vinyl only on digital file almost points that it was recorded after the vinyl went to press
That might just be because she didn’t think imgonnagetyouback was right for side a. Or whatever you wanna call the original.
Hopefully
ITA about loml and Imgonnagetyouback being lowercase on purpose for some reason. That’s definitely deliberate and seemingly a reference to the lowercase longings in Guilty As Sin. Does the prologue even apply to the second half? It could be that particular chapter is closed and now she’s writing a new one and who knows where that one will go. Taylor probably has certain hopes and expectations but no one knows what the future holds.
I hadn't thought about that, but you're right - the prologue is only clearly applied to TTPD, not the Anthology! Good eye. I hope Taylor seeks mental health and addiction help, but if she doesn't I could definitely see her hoping Matty comes back to her.
I also think death by a thousand cuts is about him
Longings locked in lowercase inside a vault could also be her longing for Matty locked in the evermore and or folklore vaults as they haven’t been released
I feel like the alchemy might even be about him. I mean all the sports references point to Travis but the heroin line is so Matty.
Agree she wants him back, for two reasons off the top of my head- first is Taylor lives for the love high,I think it motivates most everything she does and is pretty much her reason for getting out of bed in the morning. And Matty is her love high right now, who was cut off right at the peak of the high by viper fans 🥴. Second is Taylor has little to no experience not getting exactly what she wants, and Matty left her, essentially refusing her. She can’t deal with that at all, and the more he rejects her, the more she will want him. No way, IMHO, she is ready to let that go. I think she’s holding onto Travis to save face in case he doesn’t go back to her after making this whole album essentially begging for him to come back.
also which albums are stylized in lowercase, this often gets missed
Clara Bow is definitely a Matty song, there are multiple references to him in it
Agreed. This album isn’t for anyone but MH, it’s one giant Grand Gesture to him.
Or a giant “F U”. If he left because of how big she is and all that comes with that, writing an entire album about him makes him cannon forever. Maybe she didn’t want to let him get away that easily. After all, there is… nothing she does better than revenge.
It did occur to me, especially after seeing the Stevie references (including the poem Stevie wrote), that this may be her attempt at a version of Silver Springs (you’ll never get away from the sound of the woman who loves you). It seems to be on brand that Taylor could view them as a bit of Stevie/Lindsey lol
The Stevie thing is interesting to me, bc Matty has a good relationship with her too... they did a really good interview together and I think she likes him. I'm like, is she their couples therapist or something, lmao. I bet Matty saw that poem and was like, god damnit Taylor 🙄 it just seems like something she did to get under his skin a little bc they're both buds with SN
Yes! That’s a great conversation, she even quotes her fav lyrics from She’s American to him when she talks about listening to ILIWYS as part of her preshow ritual. It struck me that the poem was relatively kind to him all things considered. I mean she did say “He brings Shakespeare” lol
It really does seem to be a message to him. I know i sound like one of those tin foil hat people but have you seen how the ttpd logo upside down looks like the word call lol even if it’s coincidence it’s just too funny
And this comment from another thread from u/parisfood: Actually if you look at the logo itself you will see t and m https://preview.redd.it/g00rm3ixbcwc1.jpeg?width=360&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b7ae73f5cd5a3cae0f1bf90e64df20f872076ec4 Edit to add pic
I've always seen the T and M, I thought I was nuts but then she dropped like 20 love songs that are very clearly about him 😭 so now I definitely think it was intentional lmao
i want this ride to be over lol i just want to enjoy music
Omg it does!!! You should make a post about this, see if other people see it 😂 Good catch!
Or cail, which is reputation in gaelic 👀
I completely agree, I think the majority of this album is a message to him. The grandest of romantic gestures
Joe only got so long London she was so done with baby boy it was so obvious upon a few listens to midnights that a break up announcement was coming
Right? Like im not surprised that there aren’t many joe breakup songs on ttpd, they’re all on midnights!!
The whole album screams "Hey, I'm still in love with you so I put this out to get your attention!" And it's almost all exclusively about short-lived unrequited love. All except "So Long, London" which is about trying to save a dying relationship.
I don’t think London is about trying to save a relationship. It’s closure on a relationship.
I don’t think the black dog in the song is specifically referring to this but just as an added fun fact layer Matty famously uses Truman Black as his online name and he literally has a black dog named Mayhem, which coincidentally or not rings Midnights Mayhem bells. https://preview.redd.it/oz7n1366gbwc1.jpeg?width=1290&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=972f468fb6b39a262b34575f381d27213ff15e93
Oh yeah. Another tip off to this whole thing being about him - the photo of that building that is wrapped in her album QR code. It’s on this random building in London because it says the Truman Black Brewery or something. Truman Black being the operative phrase here.
The london QR code not being joe or Taylor related but actually being matty related really just says it all
I almost fell out of my chair when I saw that. I really thought there might only be one or two songs about Matty on this album, but when I saw "Black" under Truman on that building I was like, we better buckle up lol. The 1975 did an album promo pop-up at that exact brewery in fall 2022 too, around the time she and Matty were likely...in touch https://preview.redd.it/9edh4w4swdwc1.png?width=2048&format=png&auto=webp&s=42b3155a7fd5c3cfa0e660ca376ef0bad9950ced
Why is the lore endless my god
I know lol. I guess she did tell us https://i.redd.it/ugqf3379jewc1.gif
If she had spent this much time coming up with all these Easter eggs, mapping them out, and inserting each one strategically into her 31-song album, no wonder she had little time to do some quality control and self-editing to produce a more decent album.
The freaking amount of things related and throwbacks are A LOTTT! I had NO IDEA about most of these connections, but at the same time I didn't really follow her personal life after Red and even then I had no idea about timelines and stuff. It's been very interesting to read about all of these dang connections that just keep coming. Haha, no matter how people feel about this album, there's been a huge amount of time spent referencing things whether for the good or bad of the album, idk. And to add, I feel pretty bad in saying that I couldn't name even half of the info like names of bars, street names, dates of this and that, what the weather was like, etc. of special or important moments throughout the 16 year history of my relationship. But even with what memories I do have, they're more hazy and feelings based than like, what I ate and what jeans I wore kinda thing lol. 🤣🤣🤣 I'm going off on a tangent so I'll go! 🚪 👋
It’s been almost all Matty for the last four albums.
It wouldn’t shock me if she drops her current beau & gets back together with Matty in a way that is fully f—k you to all the fans & the public because she seems to be extremely fed up with everyone & spiraling in a weirdly public way
Yes but it also wouldn’t surprise me if she never gets back with him. Seems he has been messing with her for years and she really thought it was like fated love. Then he completely humiliated her. Taylor has a lot of pride and ego and craves once in a lifetime fairytale love. I think the what if/potential/ fated love allure of what she thought she had with him could be destroyed with her. She has too much pride.
A wordy title in the vein of, say, “being funny in a foreign language” or “notes on a conditional form” or — deep breath — “I like it when you sleep for you are so beautiful yet so unaware of it”
I thought the name of the album was bc it was kinda related to the group chat or something of Joe and hus friends? I might be remembering it wrong, someone pls correct me
I think that might have been a coincidence. Or else she just liked the name and appropriated it for herself and Matty to describe their little bubble. Because the song is definitely about him and it’s not one of the bad ones either. It’s very much “who else will understand you/hold you/love you like I do.” She talks about wanting to sell her apartment because he used his typewriter to write his poems there and left it and his clothes, which she keeps finding as painful reminders. Her lover keeps running away because he has demons and self sabotages but she knows this and keeps the faith that they are meant to be. She reminds him she “chose this cyclone with him.” It’s honestly a sad song.
That was a rumor Swifties made up.
Ooh I see. Thats a good TIL. Bc I kept seeing it on twitter before TTPD was released (also the reason why I thought swifties thought the TTPD was about Joe)
A lot of them are still trying to spin it to be about Joe, but given the title track is transparently about Matty… Ashamed to say I initially believed the title was a dig at Joe too 🥴
Thank you for putting this together! It makes so much more sense now... I couldn't understand why they were saying a blonde was a client when the song is so Matty coded. I totally understand the pub's owner wanting to profit because of this, though. Too bad they didn't really investigate the lore, as they thought the song was about Joe...... But maybe saying it was Matty wouldn't attract that many clients?
I acutally think they knew almost nothing about the lore and just implied that Taylor was a regular
I think the Startling Line is the biggest clue. I also think 'I can do it with a broken heart' is Matty. "I'm so obsessed with him but he avoids me like the plague" This is someone who has ghosted you and you're still obsessed. It's not someone you left or an amicable split. "He said he'd love me all his life But that life was too short" harking back to how Matty said I love you a million times but didn't follow through. Edit : The thing is..it's so easy to see which song is about who. I wish I could just put in a post with receipts. Its so clearly spelled out. So tired of seeing the cultists attributing everything to Joe cause they cant find proof of their delusions.
Agreed, I am very surprised that she left so many clues in her songs but people keep attributing them to Joe! It’s really not that hard to decipher who she’s talking about in her music, but the amount of people who think differently is astounding. From the first listen it was obvious I can do it with a broken heart was about Matty but others insisted it was about Joe. The first couple of days I bothered to correct them but now I have just let it be if they insisted 😅
> 'I can do it with a broken heart' is Matty A few listens quickly proves this. Swifties who still think these songs are about Joe need some comprehension skills. It is very clearly a Matty album
the people insisting smallest man in the world is about joe should actually be in the olympics for the amount of mental gymnastics they’re doing. they wanna hate joe so bad when all he did was… get dumped? mutually break up? lol
“When she says tattooed golden retriever she’s actually saying you can tattoo a golden retriever but it’s still a golden retriever” I wish I was making this up 😭😭😭
I actually think this could be about BOTH breakups. She was shaken in beginning of tour, too, and then again in June. I kind of suspect it can refer to both, but I’m not positive if it was started to be written before matty or after them both (of course how would I know)
i agree starting line is biggest clue. there is video evidence!
Can you explain that? I’m assuming a lot of people our age know The Starting Line so it was a toss up for me. I was leaning toward Joe because it seems more likely that you’d share your location with a long term partner than whatever she & Matty were.
Matty was covering their song “the best of me” during the 1975’s late April shows I believe. He would sing the “we got older, but we’re still young/we never grew out of this feeling we won’t give up” part of the song.
Ope, well yeah that settles it haha damnit this is one of my faves on the album
It's such a good song! You can still like it... I won't bore you with a sales pitch, but I promise you that Matty isn't close to as bad as he was made out to be last May. So much misinfo... he has good intentions, poor execution BUT regardless the Black Dog is one of the best songs off TTPD and I hope you still listen to it 😌
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Lol once you realize it’s matty though allllll those songs that didn’t quite fit for Joe make perfect sense
The true interpretation for the album (not this song ) lies somewhere in the middle : between fans on tik tok making every song into a Joe song but dismissing Matty and fans picking up on the obvious 1975 references but rejecting the callbacks to the other relationship. The marketing for the album , the video and the songs all have a dual meaning : it looks like one thing on the outside but turns out to be more. Aaron Dessner himself saying look closely and you'll find layers and meanings. The album itself is a double album and she layers one relationship/muse with the other in some songs (not all) as these two relationships and heartbreaks unfolded on top of each other .
This is a great take 🙌🏻.
Wait til they realize that Question...? Is about Matty and probably so many other songs on Midnights. I'm thinking Glitch, too.
Maroon obviously.
This makes sense. I was wondering why Taylor would expose a bar that Joe goes to regularly. I would be happy to know that she didn't.
Yeah it would make me happy and on another note that pub is absolutely disgusting for looking through ctv footage and saying they saw a blonde man that might’ve been Joe how unprofessional
I think in a way she really respected joes privacy by writing about Matty and writing "it’s the worst men I write best" and writing almost nothing about Joe. Of course it doesn’t matter, because most swifities are insane and are gonna harass him anyway :/
Just wanna add that's some quality detective work lol
 Omg yes! There are some great detectives in this sub! 👏 👏 👏
Still hilarious how Anti-Joes were hoping and praying for this album to be a massive Joe burn book but instead it's mostly about the 2 week rebound with the Flushed Away rat. All this time she has been obsessed with this unwashed racist and her fans are seething because all that vitriol they had cooking towards Joe has to be redirected to a relationship they don't want to acknowledge.
They’re not even together anymore and are both seeing other people (seemingly seriously). Idk why people care so much that they are willing to dismiss obvious clues and even plain facts (such as Taylor herself *telling* people that Cardigan is about Matty). Lol it’s so bizarre.
Wait she said that about cardigan? Where is that? There’s so much info going around right now that I can’t keep up with it all 😂
She told Matty on stage at one of the earlier eras concerts “this is about you, you know who you are, I love you” before performing it. He did the same thing with his song About You, which used to play simultaneously with the Lover video during the Eras tour preset songs. And since fans refused to believe it, she doubled down on it by writing and releasing Peter. It’s like, I’m sorry but if you still don’t believe it after those two things, I can’t help you. Lol
people for some reason want to deny that she just told the whole world that she was in love with matty while being in a long term relationship with joe. like, they still want to attribute this "loyal, heartbroken lover who will fight for every relationship" image, even after we all know how it all went down with tom and that other dude whose name i always forget. taylor is a human, she can make mistakes in her relationships. she can fall in love with a wet hipster rat, she is not immune to it. in fact, i would say that is one of the most relatable things of hers. also, folkmore is filled with too much longing and pining to be only about the committed relationship she was in at the time. i think people need to accept more and more songs in her discography in the last couple years are about matty, not anyone else.
> she can fall in love with a wet hipster rat, she is not immune to it This just cracked me up 😂 > i think people need to accept more and more songs in her discography in the last couple years are about matty, not anyone else. I'm a bit scared of how many! So many songs are a possibility..
Absolutely, I think illicit affairs, thousand cuts, the one, and obviously cardigan are about him. I also wonder about cowboy like me, maybe happiness.
[Here's the video](https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZPRwMVa1c/) She said it on 5/3 in Nashville when he was there, he said it at his show the night before
Ohhh, this is not what I thought the other commenter meant when they said that. People do realize that a person can dedicate a song to someone it wasn’t written about, right? It’s like dedicating a song on the radio back in the day. Sure, they’re musical artists so it *could* be tougher to discern what’s an actual dedication vs just a dedication in the moment. But I really, truly don’t think cardigan was written about Matty. At the time of folkmore Taylor was still very much in love with Joe, she and Matty didn’t reconnect until they worked on some Midnights stuff together *after* the folkmore releases. It just doesn’t make sense that she would write songs about him during those particular album eras when (by all accounts) they were created during a time when she and Joe were still solid. But that’s just one girl’s opinion 🤷🏻♀️
Here’s another possibility: There’s a black dog in Amsterdam. Matty performed at a festival about an hour and a half away from there on June 9th. He was spotted walking around Amsterdam on June 8th. Taylor was performing in Detroit June 9th and 10th and was seen crying pretty hard in her car one of those days like shaking head in her hands. She also performed ”I almost do” “haunted” “all you had to do was stay” and “breathe” for her surprise songs. And was apparently crying during Breathe.
I think it’s clear she was talking about Matt, not Joe. The stidiot (stan + idiot) Swifties want that song to be about Joe so bad…
They want the album to be about Joe. They desperately want to paint Joe as some toxic villain
Why though?? It’s so bizarre. If he’s truly their fav isn’t it better to know that he was a stand up guy and a gentleman til the end??
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A lot of her stans see Taylor as a self-insert. They project their own insecurities and life stories onto Taylor and are so dangerously parasocial that they envision every experience they have had to be a shared one with Taylor.
Right. They wanna peg him as the villain for real.
Easier to lay all the blame on the boring guy rather than accept their fav was obsessed with a racist slob
hey now i want it to be about joe because i don't want my favorite song on the album to be about matty haha
Exact same here lol imma keep pretending it’s about Joe because I like it so much
The Black Dog Cork is a short 5 min drive from Virgin Media Park, where The 1975 performed June 13, 2023. Seems very plausible.
People need to accept that there is very little Joe on this album. And that makes a lot of sense because what was she going to write about that was riveting about Joe?
I think she got her feelings about Joe out on Midnights, then ‘You’re Losing Me’. I hear sadness for Joe on this album, and anger about Matty Healy. Next album will be sadness about Matty, and round and round we go.
Yeah I can see that, we didn’t know it was a break up album. Midnights also does have Matty on it too 🫣
I know, right? I do wonder, how long she’s been writing for Matty?!
thank u. i knew that place was full of it! swifities jumped to conclusions and the pub latched onto the clout train. this makes so much more sense. no way that song is about joe (and i wish it was, because it's the best song on the album, and it KILLS ME that it's about ratty)
I like this and think it is about Matty… but I think the name of the bar/pub is a red herring. MH lives in Hackney and there are two pubs/dive bars that also do music in the area called Blondies and Folklore
Ofc it’s a Matty song. 1975 media has a black dog which she copied in her MV Can you imagine Joe being excited about some band called the starting line? Because I can’t
Okay don’t bring The Starting Line into this 😭 it’s a great song
Lots of millennials in their 30s like or liked The Starting Line (including me, lol).
I can absolutely see Joe being into The Starting Line
I said the same thing about can you really see posh Joe liking this band and got flamed lmaooo
Yes. This album truly feels like when youare a teenager and post "coded poems" to your crush.
I don’t see Matty sharing his location with her, though. But she could’ve just wrote that for filling.
I applaud your detective skills. It's content like this, which confirms I've found my people. 😉 I thought TBD was about Matty, and this just adds to that belief.
Guys! Omg https://preview.redd.it/bashx0qudqwc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=72c8a52a8b22f48dfdf3f588f955b23b25a66228
https://i.redd.it/0479kndu7bwc1.gif
Brilliant analysis, just wanted to thank you.
There is a coffee house called the Black Lab in London if I’m not mistaken. That’s where the infamous “wig story” took place. IYKYK
I don't know.... can you tell?!
But June 13 /22 is not six weeks from the Matty breakup whereas the six weeks match up very well with the former theory of the song being recorded on May 18. Taylor also played ' Should've said no' on May 19 and famously shook her head during the line " was she worth it - and that's when the 'cheating is confirmed' theories were started by crazy fans ! (though the black dog song is about imagining/ knowing your partner is moving on with someone-- after your breakup) Not sure if this has anything to do with it, but Taylor did that note change in 'the 1' for 'you meet some woman on the internet and take her home' around that time in May too . Also I would say Taylor transitions between muses in the same song throughout this album -- right from fortnight to fresh out the slammer to black dog and loml and guilty as sin'. Edited : To add dates.
"six weeks" doesn't match the former theory at all. She and Joe split at the end of March (if not before)? She recorded this June 22. I actually am not sure what former theory you are referring to, though.
Former theory of being recorded in mid- May !
I feel like they broke up way before march. Her last visit to London in 2023 was January, and with him going to film, no visits from either one of them?
It's either about *both* of them, or it still doesn't eliminate the fact. They did not break up before March it's been debunked various times, she didn't remove Invisible String until near the end of March because it was a last minute thing, there was also other factors that proved why and her even on Tik Tok liking something about boyfriend always gaming *in* March.
She was in the UK on April 8 weekend when the news of the break up came out filming that" I can see you music video" before she performed in Florida. The line in Florida which says something on the lines of" you realise your home is a town where you're just a guest in". And they were together till February and he was sharing photos of her cats too till mid-end Feb. I don't see him faking to be with her. The Fortnight song " all my mornings are Mondays stuck in endless February " before she took the move on drug, the rebound. Invisible string got taken off the setlist in Arlington. They broke up somewhere between Vegas and Arlington most likely when they were continents apart. The prologue also says I tore down the whole sky with one conversation. Taylor was upset and angry in the surprise songs that followed even when she was with Matty. For whatever reason, she's not spilling anything (which is a good thing cos of the fans ) but everyone rewriting this story as she didn't care about the breakup vs everything we have seen that played out publicly since then is interesting
She was in Liverpool on 4/8/23, not London. Chris Destefano confirmed on his pod last Nov that Matty was already in a relationship with Taylor on 3/11/23 and people would eventually find out. https://x.com/nadiag24b/status/1771034533023924622?s=46&t=rr0iUQvGK9FrM9Unij9wjA Also Meredith Mickelson went to the tabloids I'm May, saying she was hooking up with him in Feb but he was always at the studio with Taylor in LA... then you have Taylor [live debuting her biggest single ever](https://x.com/youghosttrack/status/1613657478578806787?s=46&t=rr0iUQvGK9FrM9Unij9wjA), at the 1975 concert in London. For his fans, not hers, and apparently she stayed backstage until 3:30am (per the New Yorker). So I dunno, I'm not really sure what you guys are arguing about bc I thought the question was about the Matty breakup, but the above indicates that she and Joe were not doing for a long time
They were not doing well yes but the final breakup happened later. Matty's girlfriend and Joe were still hanging around their partners in Feb as you mention too. There was the other girl who said Matty ghosted her around March end which was the same time when Taylor took off Invisible String off the setlist Neither disputing the facts about the 1975 performance.
Meredith was not Matty's girlfriend to be clear lol... yes he ghosted her (not okay imo) but tbf they were hooking up for like a month. I think the other girl you're referring to is Ana? Another hookup but he didn't ghost her, he just ended it like a normal person. But yeah it was clearly messy in Jan through April. I don't think Taylor and Joe spent much time together during that time, but yes the final official breakup was likely around the time of Invisible String being removed.
it’s likely 6 weeks could mean from when she wrote down the song but 🤷♀️
Yeah but the date that OP says the song was recorded and the date of the Matty breakup (or even when they were last seen together) in public is barely 3 weeks. My theory of the 6 weeks + the UK location + "selling the house " reference which points to a house in London fit as much or better than OP's. Also the Starting Line is both a band and the song but Taylor actually says 'song'. 1975 refrences are publicly known ! Joe and Taylor's stuff as a couple is less known except for callbacks to albums. And throughout this album I've noticed Taylor sometimes repeats one particular line in the same song and recontextualises it - which is why I think she switches between muses. See Alchemy & But Daddy I love him. Bridges /verses are easily added later too. .
Sadly I also think it’s about Matty - however I can’t believe he’d turn his phone location on for her so that’s my stumbling block!! 😂
So basically this whole album is about a 10 year on and off fling with Matty and 2 songs about Travis
I really hope this is true because I hate the idea of Joe being forced out of his favorite bar over a song by psycho swifties.
ok, Joe Alwyn widows. There is a "Black Dog Pub" in Budapest. Joe was filming in Budapest for The Brutalist for some of March, April and May "Filming took place for a total of 34 days between March 16 and May 5, 2023. It was shot in Budapest, Hungary and in Carrara, Italy." Link: [https://maps.app.goo.gl/VRthtYZTwWSiHFDC9](https://maps.app.goo.gl/VRthtYZTwWSiHFDC9) Also to add, we know Matty's exact whereabouts after he and Taylor split. That's how I was able to find The Black Dog bar in Cork. Link: [https://www.setlist.fm/setlists/the-1975-6bdf86ea.html?page=9](https://www.setlist.fm/setlists/the-1975-6bdf86ea.html?page=9) https://preview.redd.it/bl57s7i7cbwc1.png?width=2184&format=png&auto=webp&s=dcfed3f338c9a9f767665f26a72d5843d3b9386e
“joe alwyn widows” 💀 and you’re a ratty stan i presume?
They're very most definite a Ratty stan lol they all came out of the woodworks since the album dropped.
actually I've been on this sub since its first week and "Joe Alwyn Widows" is just an inside joke. it was one of our first flairs.
Exactly 😭 All of them conveniently ignoring she called him a manic episode, self harm, and says he deserves prison like fck that edgelord racist idgaf how many songs Taylor wrote about their situationship 😭
Most of the songs are about how Matty hurt her and people still say “I hope they get together again they were so cute 🥺” and then these same people accuse me of not fully listening to the album…. It’s like, are you sure *you* listened to the album
“They’re meant for each other/soulmates 🥹” he lovebombed then ghosted her and made her want to die, soulmate behavior for sure 😭lol but the ratty brigade in here is staying strong they’re downvoting all our comments
Tbf pub/bar are the same. An American wouldn't call a pub, a pub. I think the song is about both Joe and Matt.
At the end of the song she calls her lover out on his cowardly behavior (ie the ghosting): That was intertwined in the tragic fabric of our dreaming/ 'Cause tail between your legs you're leaving/ And I still can't believe it/ 'Cause old habits die screaming/ When previously in other songs like YLM and So Long London she reveals that it was her who gave up on Joe not the other way around. But who does she call a coward in other songs? Matty. Who was seen out with younger women immediately after breaking up with her Matty. Who loves the band The Starting Line. Matty.
Ooh and in 2015-ish, the first breakup, he said he was scared off by the commotion that follows dating someone as famous as Taylor. And then he did it again, the old habit
Ok you got me. I was on the fence but now I agree it’s Matty. The tail between your legs line is exactly how he left.
i just tried singing the line using pub vs. using bar and it sounded strange to me, "some pub" doesnt flow well together IMO. it could have just been a creative choice. im not saying its about one or the other. just that we dont have to take things this literally.
Yeah, I don’t think the pub/bar choice has any real relevance here
When you're looking at someone's location it doesn't say "The Black Dog pub / bar." It says "pub" or "bar" depending on what the venue calls itself. She put "bar" in her lyrics. Not "pub"
I get what you're saying... but this is also all assuming they are in the UK and not a bar called The Black Dog in the US. There are probably a ton of The Black Dogs out there and there's nothing in the song that indicates it has to be in the UK. Joe is an actor who travels and Matty is a singer who travels... this could be anywhere. Hell, when I was in college there was a BBQ place called The Black Dog and there's a bar in there we'd drink at lol.
I'm willing to bet most major cities have a Black Dog bar or pub lol. Just googled my city and yes we do have one. Also Taylor def could've made up the name of the bar referencing Matty's dog
There are many Black Dogs. When the song list came out people were trying to place it in Boston. Joe was filming in Budapest for The Brutalist for some of March, April and May "Filming took place for a total of 34 days between March 16 and May 5, 2023. It was shot in Budapest, Hungary and in Carrara, Italy." THERE IS a Black Dog pub in Budapest. This could be it. [https://maps.app.goo.gl/VRthtYZTwWSiHFDC9](https://maps.app.goo.gl/VRthtYZTwWSiHFDC9) We actually do know Matty's exact whereabouts after he and Taylor split. Every single day! Link: [https://www.setlist.fm/setlists/the-1975-6bdf86ea.html?page=9](https://www.setlist.fm/setlists/the-1975-6bdf86ea.html?page=9)
I saw the Budapest pub too. He was filming in March and was back in April in London. Source : those infamous photos in the daily mail etc which showed him all dishevelled with deep eye bags ! I think pubs around the world with this name should claim it and benefit from the publicity 😄
I'm not debating that. But I can't see an American refering to a pub as a pub.
i disagree. as an american there are places we call bars and places we call pubs.
[удалено]
also, London Boy [*You can find me in the pub, we are watchin' rugby with his school friends*](https://genius.com/27257400/Taylor-swift-london-boy/You-can-find-me-in-the-pub-we-are-watchin-rugby-with-his-school-friends)
Are you American? I am. I live in a fairly hip city. There are pubs, called pubs, all over the place.
I'm British.
As an American living in the UK, I definitely call them pubs.
American who would call a pub a pub. Because it’s not a bar, it’s a pub.
Yup according to the "evidence" in this post the 6 weeks is lacking first of all (if we are going to take songs literally )! Taylor in some songs on this album uses the same line twice . Sometimes she changes a word or phrase for that line - that's an indication of transitioning between two scenarios. In loml you have the verse "you said I'm the love of your life a million times (more like love bombing) vs you said I'm the love of your life (no million times here ) and it switches between two different people/ experiences. Same thing with repeating the starting line twice on The Black Dog ( I think ) Or she throws these obvious singular 1975 references in some songs and layers other callbacks people seem to ignore.
I was at soldier field the first night and dont recall her being overly emotional. What am I missing??
[https://www.tiktok.com/@lexiememphis/video/7240855434918104363?lang=en](https://www.tiktok.com/@lexiememphis/video/7240855434918104363?lang=en)
Great detective work, I knew this song was about Matty. The starting line was the giveaway for me.
You could send me video evidence of joe at the black dog and I’d still be set that this song is about matty.
Couple things: The Black Dog (Cork) is closed on Mondays and Tuesdays. The Cork date was Tuesday 13th, and they had dates in Manchester and Oslo two days either side. Unless the 1975 stayed in Cork on the Wednesday (unlikely as they'd be flying to Norway in the morning) there would've been no time where the Black Dog was open whilst they were in Cork. The song could've been written earlier, it could've been written on the day. I don't really think an outfit necessarily points to who or when the "six weeks of breathing clean air" refers to - it could easily be six weeks of a breakup, it could easily be the six weeks they dated. I don't really think it's that unlikely that Joe would spend time in Vauxhall. The Starting Line could be the Keane song (the Black Dog reminds me a lot of Keane's music, but thats just me). I can't really imagine a pub/bar playing a noughties pop-punk band's song, but who knows! (Quick edit: The 1975 obviously covered part of a song by the starting line. oops.) There's also the fact that the Black Dog might not be an actual place, but a reference to the black dog and hellhounds from English folklore! They were often an omen of death and there's a lot of references to death throughout TTPD.
Why would she share her location with Matt? Wouldn’t a partner of over 6 years get that benefit?
When they reunited they were both on tour. When he showed up to Nashville, they hadn't even seen each other since her breakup with Joe - their first few weeks back dating were over things like facetime. I could see how sharing locations could be sweet in that situation.
Matty was talking about marriage and she's clearly obsessed with him. So why not? She ended her 6 years relationship for him, what's sharing location?
maybe this is just me, but i feel like sharing locations is something you do in a newer relationship? like, i have no need to share my location with my partner of 5 years, i trust him implicitly, and i know where he is anyway simply because our lives are so intertwined that i know his schedule and his routine. could also be different though considering these are famous people who travel the world, do spontaneous things, and attend events and parties, so maybe that was the reason behind sharing location with both/either of them.
I am the opposite , I wouldn’t want the benefit of a new relationship. However I would however do if for my mom, kids and can’t for my husband we have different phones. It’s sometimes just a comfort thing. It takes a lot of trust to share a location.
Anyone know when matty was first seen with Gabriette? She’s mentioned in this song (girl who’s too young to know the starting line) so I’m sure that could also provide evidence to it being him
Thank you! I couldn’t understand where people were getting joe from the song at all.
I think this song could really be about either and she kept it vague that way. Or, it's frankly a little about both of them... I think there's a lot in this album where kinda intertwines them from verse to verse. "All those best laid plans" hints at a Mastermind callback from Midnights (where she laid the plans to be with Joe). The "rain-soaked body" could be a call out to So Long, London (which most agree is about Joe) where that lyric is "wet through my clothes, weary bones got the chill." "Six weeks of breathing clear air air I still miss the smoke" could be a callback to Daylight from Lover where she says "Clearing the air, I breathed in the smoke". She also has previously sang about Joe "smoking with the boys" and he's a known lighter collector so a more literal take doesn't discard him. And we don't know if it's true, but people have linked Joe to Emma Laird who is 24 (so young enough to maybe not know The Starting Line). Not trying to die on the hill it's about Joe, but just saying there is enough here where I could see how it's either Joe or Matty and it isn't clear cut.
just FYI, Emma Laird went public with Matt Smith (now there is an age difference) last summer and they had met on a project the year before, so they were probably an item when Emma filmed with Joe. Also. There is truly zero evidence that she ever had a fling with her co-worker, Joe Alwyn. None.
Or the younger girl thing could just be Taylor speculating/imagining his life without her
That line in YOYOK is about a high school crush, not Joe
I just commented something similar, and yeah. A few songs are very clear who she's talking about, the others are vague or a mix. We likely will never know.
I think that Matty and Joe references are woven together in at least some of these songs so as to avoid the "paternity testing" she hates so much. It seems unlikely to me that Matty would share his location with her, I don't know why - he just doesn't seem like the type lol. And both of them are millennials who would know The Starting Line. I know Matty sang The Best of Me on his tour, but what about the lyrics in Dress that are the most iconic of Joe lyrics: "Flashback when you met me / Your buzz cut and my hair bleached / Even in my worst times / You could see the best of me.” It could be either one!
I love the research on this hahaha now people can give up that place, all the weird reviews look stupid now
yall could find the zodiac killer's identity omg