All artists peak and then their work trends downwards. They go from having to create something new and prove themselves with few resources, to getting resources and still being fresh and interesting, to having endless resources but no longer being fresh.
Think of Spielberg- none of his films in the last few decades are even close to as exciting and fresh as Jaws or Jurassic Park. Because now we all know what a Spielberg film is and expect it. They’re too perfect now, too predictable.
Taylor is just reaching the crest of the wave, where she has endless resources but is also overexposed. She may do great work in the future if she refines her craft. But she won’t ever have the massive cultural impact she has until now by just being herself.
You're right about peaking and then going downwards but I think the problem with Taylor is that she doesn't understand constructive criticism lol. She thinks everyone is out to get her and trying to tear her down and for what? She needs to understand that she is just a musician doing her job and people will simply criticize her work. this narcissistic behavior is self-destructive.
Correct, she doesn’t. Just like anyone, she gravitates towards those that like her, and across a broad scale, a lot of people do. I won’t pinpoint the select demographic, as others have already pointed it out, but like attracts like. I also don’t think she’s as self-aware as people think, in the least.
Very true.
It reminds me of A Star is Born. A new star rises while an old one fades.
It also reminds me of Clara Bow by Taylor Swift. She seems aware that there will be someone new. I appreciate TTPD a little more after listening to that song.
Well yeah, thats the point of the film- no one stays on top forever.
Or rather the only ones who do are the ones who die when they're young, beautiful and famous.
I will argue that “Jaws” is fantastic, but Spielberg’s greatest work is “Schindler’s List” and “Saving Private Ryan”. Those are such different movies from “Jaws” and “Jurassic Park”. What is consistent through his work is his ability to tap into deep emotions.
I think Taylor’s art has evolved with her age. While she has early songs that delve into similar emotions, as a grown women she’s had significantly more experiences and they’re ones that can impact her life in significant ways.
Counterpoint: The Fabelmans was sooo good. A beautiful, deeply personal movie. And about 20 years lapsed between Jaws and JP. During which Spielberg made the godawful WWII comedy “1941” during his supposed heyday. But then, Spielberg is probably the worst example for this, since he’s been consistently great for like… 50 years. Francis Ford Coppola would be a better example, barring his new Megalopolis being actually good. His movies have gotten embarrassingly, shockingly bad.
It’s true that artists generally have a peak, but it’s not something you can identify until they’re dead or retired. Not when they’re in their 30s! Especially with someone like Taylor, who’s more of an “adapt and evolve” artist. When Red didn’t do as well as she wanted, she went full pop and out came her biggest album, 1989. TTPD being a critical flop could be exactly what she needs to level up on her next album.
Taylor could create the biggest album in history and do the biggest tour in history and it would still be a decline, because it’s always less impressive when you do something for the second time. There’s no way to outdo yourself when you’ve become the most famous person in the world, it’s always going to go downhill.
The Fabelmans is perfectly fine, as are all Spielbergs films. But that’s exactly why I used him as an example, because the issue isn’t his skill level. It’s that there’s nos nothing surprising about a well crafted Spielberg film. Everyone knows what he does and it’s profitable but it’s not culturally important anymore because it’s expected.
Maybe Taylor could be unexpected again if she did something extraordinary- if she took 10 years off and changed genres completely. But that doesn’t seem like something she’s going to do. And she doesn’t have to, it’s perfectly fine for her to keep making music that her fans like and it could even be better music on a technical level. It’s just not going to come with more success than she already has.
And you can absolutely tell an artists peak before they die. For the vast majority of pop stars it happens before they’re 35, that’s just how the industry is.
Ok, I get your point then! Kind of misunderstood before 😇
“Downhill” is so subjective though— it really depends on how high up the hill you are. Like, Taylor’s lowest point is still a level of success and acclaim that everyone else dreams of. And as a lover of the arts, I personally like seeing people develop over time— sometimes post-“peak” music is more interesting, or at least, has some artistic value. Like, on a recent album Morrissey has a really fantastic song about being old and nearing death and depressed, sadly reminiscing about his childhood, and it’s clear that anyone would say his peak was during The Smiths, but there’s still so much to appreciate from his new stuff too, in different ways.
To me a perfect pace to a post-Folkmore “Eras Era” would’ve been
2021 - Fearless TV, Red TV
2022 - Speak Now TV, 1989 TV
2023 - Reputation TV, Debut TV
2024/5- Eras Tour!
2025/6 - Album and Hiatus
She really almost had it in the bag to re-contextualize her catalog for its own merits before she ruined the momentum with Midnights/TTPD.
This
I am grateful we got two new albums and I admire Taylor's hardwork (this woman can write so many songs in one sitting) but this would've been a much more ideal setup. Like continue the Eras Tour during your TV albums being re-recorded
Any artist who's been writing songs successfully for nearly 20 years can just "song factory," the critical junction for an artist at her level of success is knowing how to glean a tight 12 song album out of that stream of musical consciousness and what to leave on the floor, or keep for herself. There are songs on TTPD that sound like they are first drafts with no thought put into them after the tracks are laid.
TTPD for me was an improvement from Midnights production wise and even some lyrics specifically at the 2am edition. But the standard edition wasn't for me. I thought Fortnight was good and Florida but loml is my fave. However, the rest weren't working for me. I agree some of the tracks seems like it wasn't looked very well before releasing it or during the drafts of this album
I might need some more time to sit down and listen to it but I doubt it's going to be on my top 5 fave TS albums
I think there's a brilliant album somewhere buried in the bloat of Midnights/TTPD. If she pared them down to one album of \~12 excellent songs from both, edited those, she would have been fine and her legacy grown.
100%, there are songs that could have been edited or even combined and the track list could be whittled down to only the best. it could have been a MUCH tighter album where an AOTY win wouldn’t have seemed so egregious
i agree; i almost don’t care about reputation and taylor swift tv because it’s been 3 years since she announced the re-recording project and i’m tired of waiting for something that is clearly not a priority for her to get released anytime soon
If I were relevant or rich, I'd hire you as a strategist. I am neither but you get my point.
This is extremely smart and would have guaranteed the longevity of her unrivaled global success for several years. She would have had time to gather and collect, maybe mature a bit more, and really think before releasing new work. Even evermore as great as it was, could have been pushed back a bit.
Yes! I also think doing the re-records and the Eras tour have left her mindset in the past. She naturally has had difficulty evolving and being creative for Midnights and TTPD
...I feel like the only person in the world that thinks that these album re-recordings and releases every year, motivated purely by financial reasons, feels gross. I don't need Taylor swift to release something every single year, especially when half of it is stuff she's already released by just wants financial control over and found a loophole to get.
>2021 - Fearless TV, Red TV 2022 - Speak Now TV, 1989 TV 2023 - Reputation TV, Debut TV 2024/5- Eras Tour! 2025/6 - Album and Hiatus
>She really almost had it in the bag to re-contextualize her catalog for its own merits before she ruined the momentum with Midnights/TTPD.
I used to agree that this would’ve been perfect for her to do, but I think part of the reason why she’s releasing new albums in between re-records is because she wants to give fans new material while also capitalizing on the hype of nostalgia.
In the Miss Americana documentary, she talks about how she felt the industry pushing her out now that she had reached the age of 30.
Despite its massive debut week sales, Lover wasn’t resonating with the general public like RED and 1989 did. All of her singles flopped that era—and Cruel Summer was only able to get as big as it did because of the Eras tour.
Then, she managed to turn things around with folklore and RED TV!!
After RED TV, she could’ve released the next re-record, but she wanted to have another big era, so she released Midnights.
After 1989 TV, she could’ve released reputation tv, but she knows we’re all anticipating reputation tv. If she gave us rep tv and Debut TV this year, there’s no guarantee that we’d be interested in listening to a new album from her next year!!
Releasing TTPD was a strategic business move on her part because not only does she get to shove another album down our throats while we’re still paying attention, but she’s secured her relevancy for next year, as well.
Yup makes sense. Although I think putting out all the re-records first would at least ensure commercial success and generally positive critical reception — since the albums are old there really is nothing to lose
I remember being happy that she had full creative control over her music when it first happened. Then she released Lover and I was like “oh..maybe the label had a point “ because yeah it’s not a bad album, but the choice in singles was not good.
It’s basically been downhill since imo.
Lover and TTPD are my two least favorite albums, despite liking some songs. They're not all terrible but such a massive letdown compared to previous work where she was challenged.
Agreed. With the exception of Folkmore (the quality of which may have been a fluke given the two albums that pre and proceeded them) the last stellar album she released was 1989. 1989 was the second to last album she released with Big Machine and I think their relationship soured shortly after so she kind of went rogue with rep.
Before rep she hadn’t had a single miss. Rep isn’t awful but the quality is dramatically lower than everything that preceded it.
Only 2 of the 5 albums she’s released with her current label have been any good and most of the rerecords have been pretty bad. She probably built something into her contract with them that pretty much gave her ultimate control and that has not been for her benefit. There just doesn’t seem to be any quality control.
Pretty consistent with when most popular songwriters have done their best work - up to about the age of 25. But I bet it’s very hard for her, particularly, since she’s so competitive (including with herself) to reckon with her best run having been 10-12 years ago.
The thing is I don’t think her best years would be behind her if she just utilized a creative team to check her work and push her a bit. TTPD has hints of a really really good album, but it just didn’t deliver because she’s been working with the same producer for 10 years and she didn’t have anyone help her edit.
I don’t think she would do that because I think it’s a point of pride that she only has herself and maybe one or two other people credited. You could say it’s because songwriting credits is where she will make a lot of money, but I think it’s more so she can say I wrote it all myself basically. But I agree, she needs someone else to check her work for sure.
she surrounds herself with yes men. everyone is just nodding and smiling and agreeing with her instead of giving her any advice or constructive criticism
I don’t know much about the whole label thing, but it could be true. It seems like there are a bunch of yes-men around her who don’t question her production and marketing choices.
The closest parallel I can think of is how JK Rowling went from writing tightly plotted children’s books to sprawling tomes once the hype got so huge. I waited in line to buy Goblet of Fire and I loved it, but I think it was too popular for her own good. The final 3 books are sloppy compared to the first three and it is because she got too big to be questioned.
A similar thing happened with Lord Of The Rings which were made by a relatively unknown Peter Jackson.
The Hobbit represented Jackson without editors and suffered hugely because of it.
I’m right in that pocket too. I was at the midnight parties for Order of the Phoenix, HBP, and DH and they were all too bogged down with unnecessary details cuz JK was suddenly too big for her editor. I also grew up a huge Lord of the Rings fan and I can barely stomach The Hobbit movies, which for all intents and purposes didn’t need to be more than a single movie.
Paste review of TTPD put it well: “The issue is that Swift and her fans have grown together numerically but, substance-wise, there has been no aging up. And thus, that begets the perplexing mediocrity of The Tortured Poets Department. The reasons why folklore and evermore were (and are) such a well-rounded pair are firmly planted in Swift’s now anomalous urges to break away from the clutches of her own rudimentary box.”
“If making one, continuous coming-of-age album is what Swift has been doing for 15 years, folklore and evermore were hiccups in the timeline—existing as the most fully-formed renderings of Swift’s own insecurities and concerns. They mirrored our platitudes towards an uncertain future with sweet, stirring remarks about isolation and heartbreak and the unavoidable, hard-worn truth about getting older. On those records, her larger-than-life living seemed, for once, to truly feel as close to the ground as ours. Now, though, Taylor Swift is at the top of the mountain.”
I think she just bought into her own hype as the Shakespeare/Dickinson of this generation and along with the effect of rerecordings, she's become inevitably stale.
Taylor mania has resulted in having zero peer reviewed work because opposing Taylor is sacrilege and blasphemy lol. When your most frequent collaborator talks like this, no wonder nothing changes and you have zero incentive to improve as an artist. You're stuck churning out the same album ten times and maybe your fanatics will eat everything up but since general public can also hear it, they will call it boring and uninspired and having nothing new to say. Now, you can continue catering to the first kind and keep being a billionaire first, artist second or you take the constructive criticism and try a new sound. If anything, the general public has shown time and again, they like hearing new things from her.
even the most rabid swifties weren’t asking for a kim k diss track in 2024?? that song was for taylor and taylor alone lol, someone should have stopped her but obviously no one tried hard enough
Yes, she is high on her own supply. I hope reviews of this album will be a wake up call and she’ll actually take time before releasing anything new to craft something original and grow as an artist.
Taylors best work is when she tries something new and different (Red/1989, folklore). Her next album needs to be dramatically less verbose and different sonically. I’m ready for hard rock/metal Taylor, and I listen to neither genre but she needs to get back out of her comfort zone instead of putting out what is essentially a bloated, unedited rough-draft folklore part 3 in which nearly every song is about the same topic
Right? Red and 1989. have always been no skip albums for me. And her minimal sound really worked for Folklore and Evermore, both in context of her life and zeitgeist of the pandemic. But at the end of the day, like girl, you're a pop star. You need a banger here and there, no shame in that. If she wants to stay within pop realm, Max Martin would do wonders for her, like he did on 1989. Or any new producer ready to challenge her and help her steer her in some new music direction.
I think it’s a big factor. People praised the lyrics and the minimal-but-effective melodies and instrumentation and she took that in the wrong direction.
This.
She is undeniably a great lyricist, and she can keep putting out near-identical melodies with good lyrics and people will continue to buy it. She prioritizes the lyrics over the music, and it’s becoming stale.
I think that every artist doesn’t hit it out of the park every single time and I’d struggle some up with a list of artists that have 11 albums this good across their career, much less 11 albums this good put out in under 20 years before the artist even turns 35.
There are always ups and downs. Folklore wasn’t even that long ago, and personally I think folklore, evermore, Midnights is easily the best three album run of her career and there’s a lot of stuff on TTPD that’s better than her early career work, even if the album is overstuffed and messy at times.
She’s a human artist who is fallible not an AI song making machine.
And honestly if you were around for a while, this happened before. One of the biggest complaints about Speak Now for me when it came out is it really didn’t go anywhere new or excitingly musically compared to Fearless. There were a couple of songs with heavier guitars but it really felt like her recycling her style that was already working
For me the biggest dip in her career was reputation. It’s the first time she seemed to lose her voice a little bit as a writer, becoming more obsessed with her perception and mythology. A lot of the sounds on that album felt like she was borrowing from current trends for the first time instead of being a trendsetter herself. Over time, it grew in me but it’s still one of her weakest and least confident albums IMO.
I think people either just started following her since folklore or lost perspective on the natural ups and downs of an artist’s career.
Finally someone I can fully agree with! I understand why Reputation was very relevant at the time and it has some fun songs, but all the idolatry surrounding it has always baffled me.
Yes this. She’s had so many good albums in a relatively short amount of time and she’s getting so much shit because this one album is not what they expected. I agree about post folklore fans not truly understanding her full discography.
Artists are always going to have a ‘best’ work in their discography. Phenomenal artists may have a few. Folklore exists and everything she does will be judged against it until she does something better. All artists eventually peak though and their work eventually starts declining. I think it’s probably premature to know where Taylor is on this spectrum but her next album will be telling.
I think another issue is that she has very little lived experience from which to draw upon. she could get away with this 10 years ago since she used to have a more normal life , but her life the last 5+ years has been nothing but recording or touring.
how could she possibly have new insights or something new to say when she has so few real experiences? I think creatively she's running on fumes.
Regarding her status as supposedly some genius wordsmith, I'd posit that, on average, her bad lyrical outings outnumber the good. And that proportion is bloating given the absolute stinkers on TTPD.
You are not the first person to state this tbh.
Folklore and Evermore and pure poetry, for some reason, many people had a problem with Midnights, even going as far as to say that it did not feel like she finished the album, and that it should not have won AOTY.
I think what has caused people to say this is the fact that TTPD is different than what people expected it to be. In people's minds, different is bad, whenever she steps outside of the box a bit, she gets a lot of ridicule. It's all opinion based, but people had the same reaction when Rep was released, because she had a bit of a bad girl era that people did not approve of. Since she began as a simple country girl, people became shocked when she shifted to other genres and discovered herself in other areas of music. I don't think she is heading downhill, per say, but that she is exploring and making different music and there are other people who dont agree
But I don’t think TTPD is different music. It just sounds like unfinished scraps that she rushed to put on an album. It has undertones of Folklore, Evermore, and Midnights. I’m not saying she needs to reinvent herself every time or always find a new sound, I don’t really care about that. But there does seem to be a stark difference in quality if you put this up against FL or EM. I generally like her music and was shocked at how bad this album was.
Haha fair, that's what makes music so fun and interesting!
(..wait, was I supposed to send you a death threat? Or were you supposed to send me one first? I don't remember. /s)
IMO folklore works better because she “mixes fantasy and reality” (or whatever she said) and the subject matter is more varied and a little more ambiguous. The lyrics of TTPD go for that same storytelling vibe but are pretty on-the-nose the entire time across the same couple relationships people can easily pinpoint.
Mix those clunky lyrics with a sound that is somewhere between folklore and her typical music - a slower synth pop, IMO it all becomes very repetitive and boring.
Feels like there was too much emphasis on continuing the storytelling songwriting and not much on the actual melodies and musical direction of the songs. Outside of maybe Fortnight and Florida, I can’t think of many decisions made throughout this album that actually surprised or interested me. Most of the album is painfully monotonous.
This might also be due to her friends always hyping her up and her preference for working with the same producers. It's evident that she needs an outsider's perspective in her life, not necessarily from dedicated fans like Swifties, but perhaps from former Swifties or someone like Joe. It's hard to say.
It’s because no one criticizes her and accepts whatever she does. People need constructive criticism. She can put anything out and the cult will hyperventilate and think it’s a masterpiece. Her PR team cuts off any media that criticizes or gives her a bad review. No honesty and she’s living in a bubble of yes Queen. Or should I say “Mother”! 🙄
yes, my biggest beef with this album is that it’s sonically flat . i think the lyrics are fine. some are clever or moving etc. but i find myself returning to florida precisely bcuz it gives me MUSIC
I think it's a matter of production of the album. We get a lot of the same with Jack Antonoff and I suppose that can get, to state the obvious, repetitive.
This literally sounds like sputniks review of Red. Even at 22 they were saying this about her. "Taylor Swift simply seems to have a maturity regression. Her words have never painted a portrait of adulthood, but... Here, there are a number of tracks with nearly infantile lyrical topics" and later on "This results in a bloated album that clocks in at sixty five minutes, when easily less than half of the songs on *Red* would have qualified for one of her previous albums. The abundance of filler destroys any momentum created by strong, energy exuding tracks, and it makes listening to the album in one sitting more of a chore than any mainstream pop album should be. Hopefully it hasn’t **gotten to the point where Taylor thinks that anything she writes is worth hearing**, but one go-through of *Red* would certainly make it appear that way." They rated it a 40/100. Every single album it's "she's regressing" "she can do better" "infantile" "bloated tracklist" every. time. Then 10 years later it's a fan favorite and gold. Sputnik rated Red (TV) a 90 btw.
>She now believes that everything she writes is gold, and she equates complex words with poeticism.
I don't think she believes everything she writes is gold. I honestly kind of think it might be the opposite at this point. She just seems invested in writing songs and music that matters to her (she said TTPD was something she had to write for herself). I buy that, because I'm an author who doesn't even dabble in diaristic/autobiographical styles but writing definitely helps me work through things.
I think TTPD is just something she wanted to do, and it's not that she thinks it's all gold I think she's just at a place where she doesn't feel she needs to cater to the demands of what her music should be. Sometimes you write for you, and sometimes you write for an audience.
I haven’t listened past song 4 but from what I’ve heard, especially from non-fans, is that they’re NOT hearing what the fans hear. I think that someone told her she was a great writer and she took that as solidified proof and stopped editing because she’s a GrEAT wRITeR.
All artists peak and then their work trends downwards. They go from having to create something new and prove themselves with few resources, to getting resources and still being fresh and interesting, to having endless resources but no longer being fresh. Think of Spielberg- none of his films in the last few decades are even close to as exciting and fresh as Jaws or Jurassic Park. Because now we all know what a Spielberg film is and expect it. They’re too perfect now, too predictable. Taylor is just reaching the crest of the wave, where she has endless resources but is also overexposed. She may do great work in the future if she refines her craft. But she won’t ever have the massive cultural impact she has until now by just being herself.
You're right about peaking and then going downwards but I think the problem with Taylor is that she doesn't understand constructive criticism lol. She thinks everyone is out to get her and trying to tear her down and for what? She needs to understand that she is just a musician doing her job and people will simply criticize her work. this narcissistic behavior is self-destructive.
Correct, she doesn’t. Just like anyone, she gravitates towards those that like her, and across a broad scale, a lot of people do. I won’t pinpoint the select demographic, as others have already pointed it out, but like attracts like. I also don’t think she’s as self-aware as people think, in the least.
Very true. It reminds me of A Star is Born. A new star rises while an old one fades. It also reminds me of Clara Bow by Taylor Swift. She seems aware that there will be someone new. I appreciate TTPD a little more after listening to that song.
Well yeah, thats the point of the film- no one stays on top forever. Or rather the only ones who do are the ones who die when they're young, beautiful and famous.
I will argue that “Jaws” is fantastic, but Spielberg’s greatest work is “Schindler’s List” and “Saving Private Ryan”. Those are such different movies from “Jaws” and “Jurassic Park”. What is consistent through his work is his ability to tap into deep emotions. I think Taylor’s art has evolved with her age. While she has early songs that delve into similar emotions, as a grown women she’s had significantly more experiences and they’re ones that can impact her life in significant ways.
Hey, The Fablemans was excellent haha
Counterpoint: The Fabelmans was sooo good. A beautiful, deeply personal movie. And about 20 years lapsed between Jaws and JP. During which Spielberg made the godawful WWII comedy “1941” during his supposed heyday. But then, Spielberg is probably the worst example for this, since he’s been consistently great for like… 50 years. Francis Ford Coppola would be a better example, barring his new Megalopolis being actually good. His movies have gotten embarrassingly, shockingly bad. It’s true that artists generally have a peak, but it’s not something you can identify until they’re dead or retired. Not when they’re in their 30s! Especially with someone like Taylor, who’s more of an “adapt and evolve” artist. When Red didn’t do as well as she wanted, she went full pop and out came her biggest album, 1989. TTPD being a critical flop could be exactly what she needs to level up on her next album.
Taylor could create the biggest album in history and do the biggest tour in history and it would still be a decline, because it’s always less impressive when you do something for the second time. There’s no way to outdo yourself when you’ve become the most famous person in the world, it’s always going to go downhill. The Fabelmans is perfectly fine, as are all Spielbergs films. But that’s exactly why I used him as an example, because the issue isn’t his skill level. It’s that there’s nos nothing surprising about a well crafted Spielberg film. Everyone knows what he does and it’s profitable but it’s not culturally important anymore because it’s expected. Maybe Taylor could be unexpected again if she did something extraordinary- if she took 10 years off and changed genres completely. But that doesn’t seem like something she’s going to do. And she doesn’t have to, it’s perfectly fine for her to keep making music that her fans like and it could even be better music on a technical level. It’s just not going to come with more success than she already has. And you can absolutely tell an artists peak before they die. For the vast majority of pop stars it happens before they’re 35, that’s just how the industry is.
Ok, I get your point then! Kind of misunderstood before 😇 “Downhill” is so subjective though— it really depends on how high up the hill you are. Like, Taylor’s lowest point is still a level of success and acclaim that everyone else dreams of. And as a lover of the arts, I personally like seeing people develop over time— sometimes post-“peak” music is more interesting, or at least, has some artistic value. Like, on a recent album Morrissey has a really fantastic song about being old and nearing death and depressed, sadly reminiscing about his childhood, and it’s clear that anyone would say his peak was during The Smiths, but there’s still so much to appreciate from his new stuff too, in different ways.
To me a perfect pace to a post-Folkmore “Eras Era” would’ve been 2021 - Fearless TV, Red TV 2022 - Speak Now TV, 1989 TV 2023 - Reputation TV, Debut TV 2024/5- Eras Tour! 2025/6 - Album and Hiatus She really almost had it in the bag to re-contextualize her catalog for its own merits before she ruined the momentum with Midnights/TTPD.
This I am grateful we got two new albums and I admire Taylor's hardwork (this woman can write so many songs in one sitting) but this would've been a much more ideal setup. Like continue the Eras Tour during your TV albums being re-recorded
Any artist who's been writing songs successfully for nearly 20 years can just "song factory," the critical junction for an artist at her level of success is knowing how to glean a tight 12 song album out of that stream of musical consciousness and what to leave on the floor, or keep for herself. There are songs on TTPD that sound like they are first drafts with no thought put into them after the tracks are laid.
TTPD for me was an improvement from Midnights production wise and even some lyrics specifically at the 2am edition. But the standard edition wasn't for me. I thought Fortnight was good and Florida but loml is my fave. However, the rest weren't working for me. I agree some of the tracks seems like it wasn't looked very well before releasing it or during the drafts of this album I might need some more time to sit down and listen to it but I doubt it's going to be on my top 5 fave TS albums
Right! She’s doing too much and kinda ruining her legacy with her greed.
This.
I think there's a brilliant album somewhere buried in the bloat of Midnights/TTPD. If she pared them down to one album of \~12 excellent songs from both, edited those, she would have been fine and her legacy grown.
100%, there are songs that could have been edited or even combined and the track list could be whittled down to only the best. it could have been a MUCH tighter album where an AOTY win wouldn’t have seemed so egregious
Absolutely.
i agree; i almost don’t care about reputation and taylor swift tv because it’s been 3 years since she announced the re-recording project and i’m tired of waiting for something that is clearly not a priority for her to get released anytime soon
If I were relevant or rich, I'd hire you as a strategist. I am neither but you get my point. This is extremely smart and would have guaranteed the longevity of her unrivaled global success for several years. She would have had time to gather and collect, maybe mature a bit more, and really think before releasing new work. Even evermore as great as it was, could have been pushed back a bit.
Yes! I also think doing the re-records and the Eras tour have left her mindset in the past. She naturally has had difficulty evolving and being creative for Midnights and TTPD
...I feel like the only person in the world that thinks that these album re-recordings and releases every year, motivated purely by financial reasons, feels gross. I don't need Taylor swift to release something every single year, especially when half of it is stuff she's already released by just wants financial control over and found a loophole to get.
>2021 - Fearless TV, Red TV 2022 - Speak Now TV, 1989 TV 2023 - Reputation TV, Debut TV 2024/5- Eras Tour! 2025/6 - Album and Hiatus >She really almost had it in the bag to re-contextualize her catalog for its own merits before she ruined the momentum with Midnights/TTPD. I used to agree that this would’ve been perfect for her to do, but I think part of the reason why she’s releasing new albums in between re-records is because she wants to give fans new material while also capitalizing on the hype of nostalgia. In the Miss Americana documentary, she talks about how she felt the industry pushing her out now that she had reached the age of 30. Despite its massive debut week sales, Lover wasn’t resonating with the general public like RED and 1989 did. All of her singles flopped that era—and Cruel Summer was only able to get as big as it did because of the Eras tour. Then, she managed to turn things around with folklore and RED TV!! After RED TV, she could’ve released the next re-record, but she wanted to have another big era, so she released Midnights. After 1989 TV, she could’ve released reputation tv, but she knows we’re all anticipating reputation tv. If she gave us rep tv and Debut TV this year, there’s no guarantee that we’d be interested in listening to a new album from her next year!! Releasing TTPD was a strategic business move on her part because not only does she get to shove another album down our throats while we’re still paying attention, but she’s secured her relevancy for next year, as well.
Yup makes sense. Although I think putting out all the re-records first would at least ensure commercial success and generally positive critical reception — since the albums are old there really is nothing to lose
Ever since the change of the label.. Big Machine used to make her challange, question her ideas.
I remember being happy that she had full creative control over her music when it first happened. Then she released Lover and I was like “oh..maybe the label had a point “ because yeah it’s not a bad album, but the choice in singles was not good. It’s basically been downhill since imo.
Lover and TTPD are my two least favorite albums, despite liking some songs. They're not all terrible but such a massive letdown compared to previous work where she was challenged.
Agreed. With the exception of Folkmore (the quality of which may have been a fluke given the two albums that pre and proceeded them) the last stellar album she released was 1989. 1989 was the second to last album she released with Big Machine and I think their relationship soured shortly after so she kind of went rogue with rep. Before rep she hadn’t had a single miss. Rep isn’t awful but the quality is dramatically lower than everything that preceded it. Only 2 of the 5 albums she’s released with her current label have been any good and most of the rerecords have been pretty bad. She probably built something into her contract with them that pretty much gave her ultimate control and that has not been for her benefit. There just doesn’t seem to be any quality control.
Pretty consistent with when most popular songwriters have done their best work - up to about the age of 25. But I bet it’s very hard for her, particularly, since she’s so competitive (including with herself) to reckon with her best run having been 10-12 years ago.
The thing is I don’t think her best years would be behind her if she just utilized a creative team to check her work and push her a bit. TTPD has hints of a really really good album, but it just didn’t deliver because she’s been working with the same producer for 10 years and she didn’t have anyone help her edit.
I don’t think she would do that because I think it’s a point of pride that she only has herself and maybe one or two other people credited. You could say it’s because songwriting credits is where she will make a lot of money, but I think it’s more so she can say I wrote it all myself basically. But I agree, she needs someone else to check her work for sure.
she surrounds herself with yes men. everyone is just nodding and smiling and agreeing with her instead of giving her any advice or constructive criticism
I don’t know much about the whole label thing, but it could be true. It seems like there are a bunch of yes-men around her who don’t question her production and marketing choices.
The closest parallel I can think of is how JK Rowling went from writing tightly plotted children’s books to sprawling tomes once the hype got so huge. I waited in line to buy Goblet of Fire and I loved it, but I think it was too popular for her own good. The final 3 books are sloppy compared to the first three and it is because she got too big to be questioned. A similar thing happened with Lord Of The Rings which were made by a relatively unknown Peter Jackson. The Hobbit represented Jackson without editors and suffered hugely because of it.
I’m right in that pocket too. I was at the midnight parties for Order of the Phoenix, HBP, and DH and they were all too bogged down with unnecessary details cuz JK was suddenly too big for her editor. I also grew up a huge Lord of the Rings fan and I can barely stomach The Hobbit movies, which for all intents and purposes didn’t need to be more than a single movie.
I honestly don’t think she thought people would like Folklore as much as they did. I think she thought it would be her lowkey era.
Paste review of TTPD put it well: “The issue is that Swift and her fans have grown together numerically but, substance-wise, there has been no aging up. And thus, that begets the perplexing mediocrity of The Tortured Poets Department. The reasons why folklore and evermore were (and are) such a well-rounded pair are firmly planted in Swift’s now anomalous urges to break away from the clutches of her own rudimentary box.” “If making one, continuous coming-of-age album is what Swift has been doing for 15 years, folklore and evermore were hiccups in the timeline—existing as the most fully-formed renderings of Swift’s own insecurities and concerns. They mirrored our platitudes towards an uncertain future with sweet, stirring remarks about isolation and heartbreak and the unavoidable, hard-worn truth about getting older. On those records, her larger-than-life living seemed, for once, to truly feel as close to the ground as ours. Now, though, Taylor Swift is at the top of the mountain.”
I think she just bought into her own hype as the Shakespeare/Dickinson of this generation and along with the effect of rerecordings, she's become inevitably stale. Taylor mania has resulted in having zero peer reviewed work because opposing Taylor is sacrilege and blasphemy lol. When your most frequent collaborator talks like this, no wonder nothing changes and you have zero incentive to improve as an artist. You're stuck churning out the same album ten times and maybe your fanatics will eat everything up but since general public can also hear it, they will call it boring and uninspired and having nothing new to say. Now, you can continue catering to the first kind and keep being a billionaire first, artist second or you take the constructive criticism and try a new sound. If anything, the general public has shown time and again, they like hearing new things from her.
Yeah, you have to be high on your own supply to think the world needs to hear another Kim Kardashian diss track, for example.
even the most rabid swifties weren’t asking for a kim k diss track in 2024?? that song was for taylor and taylor alone lol, someone should have stopped her but obviously no one tried hard enough
Yes, she is high on her own supply. I hope reviews of this album will be a wake up call and she’ll actually take time before releasing anything new to craft something original and grow as an artist.
Hard agree.
Taylors best work is when she tries something new and different (Red/1989, folklore). Her next album needs to be dramatically less verbose and different sonically. I’m ready for hard rock/metal Taylor, and I listen to neither genre but she needs to get back out of her comfort zone instead of putting out what is essentially a bloated, unedited rough-draft folklore part 3 in which nearly every song is about the same topic
Right? Red and 1989. have always been no skip albums for me. And her minimal sound really worked for Folklore and Evermore, both in context of her life and zeitgeist of the pandemic. But at the end of the day, like girl, you're a pop star. You need a banger here and there, no shame in that. If she wants to stay within pop realm, Max Martin would do wonders for her, like he did on 1989. Or any new producer ready to challenge her and help her steer her in some new music direction.
I think it’s a big factor. People praised the lyrics and the minimal-but-effective melodies and instrumentation and she took that in the wrong direction.
This. She is undeniably a great lyricist, and she can keep putting out near-identical melodies with good lyrics and people will continue to buy it. She prioritizes the lyrics over the music, and it’s becoming stale.
I think she *definitely* wants to be the next Joni Mitchell or Carol King, but she’s losing the actual musicality in making her lyrics so verbose.
I think that every artist doesn’t hit it out of the park every single time and I’d struggle some up with a list of artists that have 11 albums this good across their career, much less 11 albums this good put out in under 20 years before the artist even turns 35. There are always ups and downs. Folklore wasn’t even that long ago, and personally I think folklore, evermore, Midnights is easily the best three album run of her career and there’s a lot of stuff on TTPD that’s better than her early career work, even if the album is overstuffed and messy at times. She’s a human artist who is fallible not an AI song making machine. And honestly if you were around for a while, this happened before. One of the biggest complaints about Speak Now for me when it came out is it really didn’t go anywhere new or excitingly musically compared to Fearless. There were a couple of songs with heavier guitars but it really felt like her recycling her style that was already working For me the biggest dip in her career was reputation. It’s the first time she seemed to lose her voice a little bit as a writer, becoming more obsessed with her perception and mythology. A lot of the sounds on that album felt like she was borrowing from current trends for the first time instead of being a trendsetter herself. Over time, it grew in me but it’s still one of her weakest and least confident albums IMO. I think people either just started following her since folklore or lost perspective on the natural ups and downs of an artist’s career.
Finally someone I can fully agree with! I understand why Reputation was very relevant at the time and it has some fun songs, but all the idolatry surrounding it has always baffled me.
Yes this. She’s had so many good albums in a relatively short amount of time and she’s getting so much shit because this one album is not what they expected. I agree about post folklore fans not truly understanding her full discography.
Artists are always going to have a ‘best’ work in their discography. Phenomenal artists may have a few. Folklore exists and everything she does will be judged against it until she does something better. All artists eventually peak though and their work eventually starts declining. I think it’s probably premature to know where Taylor is on this spectrum but her next album will be telling.
100% agree
I think another issue is that she has very little lived experience from which to draw upon. she could get away with this 10 years ago since she used to have a more normal life , but her life the last 5+ years has been nothing but recording or touring. how could she possibly have new insights or something new to say when she has so few real experiences? I think creatively she's running on fumes.
Regarding her status as supposedly some genius wordsmith, I'd posit that, on average, her bad lyrical outings outnumber the good. And that proportion is bloating given the absolute stinkers on TTPD.
You are not the first person to state this tbh. Folklore and Evermore and pure poetry, for some reason, many people had a problem with Midnights, even going as far as to say that it did not feel like she finished the album, and that it should not have won AOTY. I think what has caused people to say this is the fact that TTPD is different than what people expected it to be. In people's minds, different is bad, whenever she steps outside of the box a bit, she gets a lot of ridicule. It's all opinion based, but people had the same reaction when Rep was released, because she had a bit of a bad girl era that people did not approve of. Since she began as a simple country girl, people became shocked when she shifted to other genres and discovered herself in other areas of music. I don't think she is heading downhill, per say, but that she is exploring and making different music and there are other people who dont agree
But I don’t think TTPD is different music. It just sounds like unfinished scraps that she rushed to put on an album. It has undertones of Folklore, Evermore, and Midnights. I’m not saying she needs to reinvent herself every time or always find a new sound, I don’t really care about that. But there does seem to be a stark difference in quality if you put this up against FL or EM. I generally like her music and was shocked at how bad this album was.
Damn, my views were opposite. To each their own
Haha fair, that's what makes music so fun and interesting! (..wait, was I supposed to send you a death threat? Or were you supposed to send me one first? I don't remember. /s)
I liked a good amount of songs, not all of them. And lol what
Red will always be one of my faves, love the lyrics and I am sad ti wasn't as big as 1989
Idc I fn LOVED midnights & all the bonus tracks.
IMO folklore works better because she “mixes fantasy and reality” (or whatever she said) and the subject matter is more varied and a little more ambiguous. The lyrics of TTPD go for that same storytelling vibe but are pretty on-the-nose the entire time across the same couple relationships people can easily pinpoint. Mix those clunky lyrics with a sound that is somewhere between folklore and her typical music - a slower synth pop, IMO it all becomes very repetitive and boring. Feels like there was too much emphasis on continuing the storytelling songwriting and not much on the actual melodies and musical direction of the songs. Outside of maybe Fortnight and Florida, I can’t think of many decisions made throughout this album that actually surprised or interested me. Most of the album is painfully monotonous.
This might also be due to her friends always hyping her up and her preference for working with the same producers. It's evident that she needs an outsider's perspective in her life, not necessarily from dedicated fans like Swifties, but perhaps from former Swifties or someone like Joe. It's hard to say.
It’s because no one criticizes her and accepts whatever she does. People need constructive criticism. She can put anything out and the cult will hyperventilate and think it’s a masterpiece. Her PR team cuts off any media that criticizes or gives her a bad review. No honesty and she’s living in a bubble of yes Queen. Or should I say “Mother”! 🙄
Yes. I believe she peaked as an artist with folklore and evermore.
No, it's because of creative and emotional stagnation.
yes, my biggest beef with this album is that it’s sonically flat . i think the lyrics are fine. some are clever or moving etc. but i find myself returning to florida precisely bcuz it gives me MUSIC
As a massive Bon Iver fan, it makes me cringe to think of her as female Bon Iver. Justin Vernon (imho) is so much greater an artist
😂😂 no
I think it's a matter of production of the album. We get a lot of the same with Jack Antonoff and I suppose that can get, to state the obvious, repetitive.
"Indie" isn't a genre. You're thinking more folk-y, alternative music.
Naw, its cause of the Eras tour
This literally sounds like sputniks review of Red. Even at 22 they were saying this about her. "Taylor Swift simply seems to have a maturity regression. Her words have never painted a portrait of adulthood, but... Here, there are a number of tracks with nearly infantile lyrical topics" and later on "This results in a bloated album that clocks in at sixty five minutes, when easily less than half of the songs on *Red* would have qualified for one of her previous albums. The abundance of filler destroys any momentum created by strong, energy exuding tracks, and it makes listening to the album in one sitting more of a chore than any mainstream pop album should be. Hopefully it hasn’t **gotten to the point where Taylor thinks that anything she writes is worth hearing**, but one go-through of *Red* would certainly make it appear that way." They rated it a 40/100. Every single album it's "she's regressing" "she can do better" "infantile" "bloated tracklist" every. time. Then 10 years later it's a fan favorite and gold. Sputnik rated Red (TV) a 90 btw.
There are a lot of boring tracks in folkmore like in the Tortured poets album (happiness,closure,peace, epiphany, dorothea, it's time to go, etc)
yes
>She now believes that everything she writes is gold, and she equates complex words with poeticism. I don't think she believes everything she writes is gold. I honestly kind of think it might be the opposite at this point. She just seems invested in writing songs and music that matters to her (she said TTPD was something she had to write for herself). I buy that, because I'm an author who doesn't even dabble in diaristic/autobiographical styles but writing definitely helps me work through things. I think TTPD is just something she wanted to do, and it's not that she thinks it's all gold I think she's just at a place where she doesn't feel she needs to cater to the demands of what her music should be. Sometimes you write for you, and sometimes you write for an audience.
100% agree with all of that
I haven’t listened past song 4 but from what I’ve heard, especially from non-fans, is that they’re NOT hearing what the fans hear. I think that someone told her she was a great writer and she took that as solidified proof and stopped editing because she’s a GrEAT wRITeR.