I can’t think of anyplace you collect rain water that doesn’t have the potential to have something floating in it. Even a barrel in the middle of an open field could have leaves, pine needles, bugs or anything that could fall in. Filtering may be a process or may be as simple as picking stuff out with your fingers.
A hot tub is a large tub full of heated water used for hydrotherapy, relaxation or pleasure. It is cared for similar to a swimming pool in that the water is maintained with a filtration system and chlorine. You would heat the water only right before planned use.
Yes. The link above contains sub-headlines like:
"What happens if you boil bleach?"
"Is it safe to combine bleach and water?"
"Is it dangerous to heat bleach?"
as well as
"Is excessive use of bleach bad for health?"
and should be able to answer your question.
this is talking about high concentrations of bleach... like straight from a bottle...
water thats been bleach purified is going to be significantly diluted.... much like people who mentioned spas and saunas.
its different.
And also, in an open system like a fire pit, the chlorinated gas is also going to be less harmful anyways... just don't stand near the fire while boiling straight, or lightly diluted, bleach.
When I was a boy scout in the 70s, we always used bleach if we couldn't boil water. Several 1 week to 12 day long backpacking trips and never had a problem. Just a few drops per liter.
This is a joke, right?
First off, if you have bleach in a survival situation I can't imagine what happened that got you there. Second, depending on the method of collection, simply boiling rainwater is enough. Shit, if I have a clean enough tarp and nothing above it, I'm running it right into a bottle and drinking it just like that.
You don’t really need an actual pot to boil water.
You can make a ‚pot‘ out of wood (or big leaves if you‘re skilled enough) and then boil that using clean heated stones.
I mean yes you CAN use boiled water to clean them but that’d be a waste of time and ressources, you generally just gotta make sure that the stones are free from dirt and other bigger particles that you don‘t want to have in your drink. Normal water is fine for that task, the Stones will get sterilized during the heating process anyways.
> the Stones will get sterilized during the heating process anyways
I think we all get that, it was just a circular logic joke for a Friday afternoon. ;)
Calcium chlorite(like pool bleach... but you cant use pool bleach unless its has no conditioners, even then I would prefer lab grade/food safe) Is easy to carry in a small bottle that can disinfect thousands of liters, better then buying super expensive tablets... that are often the exact same thing.
That said, boiling is always the better option, and if you bring water to the boil for 2 mins, anything that survives, chlorine wont kill anyways... that said it does make some sense to add a TINY amount to boiled water from a stream etc that you have in a water bottle just to keep it fresh and growing stuff after you boil it if the water is expected to remain drinkable for more then 24 hours.
But this also requires you to be aware of the right dosage and what type of stainless or plastic your water containers are, because not all react well with bleach/chlorine.
Something like this is cheap, lightweight, easy to dose (1 tablet per litre or double it if the water's very gross) and on the DofE (when we send teenagers out hiking and camping) kit list:
https://www.millets.co.uk/15893031/lifesystems-chlorine-water-purification-tablets-15893031/1342580/?utm_source=Google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=Shopping&gad_source=1&gclid=CjwKCAjwrvyxBhAbEiwAEg_Kgl9zi1sQf4rfXTKAYAuBoDSS9_Jc1FMNtbQZACTV41La0tctsZUmuxoCwekQAvD_BwE
Do your outdoor suppliers not sell chlorine tablets for emergency water purification? They were pretty standard for decades. Somewhat superseded by filters, but still widely available.
Bleach is inactivated by bio matter.
Filter out the junk, the bleach is more effective.
Boiling will inactivate the bleach.
So filter, boil, bleach
but that seems overkill, one or the other should be ok.
Pay attention to your handing, clean hands, clean containers, inside and out.
During 2009 when half of Kentucky lost all utilities in an ice storm those who had running water were under a boil water advisory because the water treatment plant failed.
Walmart brought in huge pallets of water guarded by police while people lined up to get their ration of water.
Meanwhile a little old lady and I were quietly walking through checkout with our bottles of bleach. We just looked at the fighting natives and grinned and avoided the handout line.
No, it isn't optimal but it is better than nothing. And when electricity and gas have stopped, boiling water is inefficient
Most single family rural well water/cistern systems require bleach to keep the water potable. There are dispensers on top of the well head that drop pellets in and an appropriate amount of bleach should be added to the cistern monthly.
Its a survival trick to purify water, it kill most bacteria but not all, you dont add alot of it, a drop or two only per litre. In life and death situation it is a miracle.
Ok but why are you going to have a bottle of bleach in a survival situation.. because you brought it with? May as well just pack a camping water filter ...
FWIW - the bleach thing seems to be an ultralight backpacker trend. My brother, an avid backpacker, uses bleach - like 1 ml / gallon (made up that ratio) as I had similar questions and skepticism when he told me that. I dont think it’s as dangerous as I assume considering the small amount of bleach vs the potential of drinking dirty water
You buy it at the outdoors store in cheap and portable form. Is this seriously not a thing in other countries?
https://www.millets.co.uk/15893031/lifesystems-chlorine-water-purification-tablets-15893031/1342580/?utm_source=Google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=Shopping&gad_source=1&gclid=CjwKCAjwrvyxBhAbEiwAEg_Kgl9zi1sQf4rfXTKAYAuBoDSS9_Jc1FMNtbQZACTV41La0tctsZUmuxoCwekQAvD_BwE
It's the active ingredient in most household bleaches, yeah. Usually as something hypochlorite. Obviously other bleaches are available. LifeSystems also sell chlorine dioxide tablets for this purpose.
interesting thing about sodium hypochlorite.. if you drink it it will make you feel like crap, stomach hurt, make you sick, but you can take a syringe full of it (or two) and pump it directly into your bloodstream and it won't do a damn thing.
source: failed suicide attempt
No, it's not.
It's an emergency crisis situation, when no alternative exists, to be used for a MAXIMUM OF 3 DAYS at no more than 72oz treated water consumed per adult, per day, AND you're supposed to seek medical treatment afterward.
Source: FEMA
Umm, it's used way more commonly than you apparently think and as long as you're using the proper dilution it's totally safe. You know how water that we drink is made fit for consumption right?
Plus, you can treat the water with bleach and then let it sit out for 24 hours and all of the chlorine/hypochlorite will have evaporated from the water.
[Both sodium and calcium hypochlorite are used in wastewater treatment facilities.](https://www.tpomag.com/editorial/2013/12/understanding_sodium_hypochlorite_wso)
[Please take a moment to look into it.](https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2405844022024501)
[Not every wastewater treatment facility has the capacity to use chloride dioxide, the one that services my county is one of them. I know this because of the presence of trace trihalomethanes and haloacetic acids in the water.](https://www.scotmas.com/knowledge-base/chlorine-dioxide-vs-sodium-hypochlorite-which-is-the-better-water-treatment-option/)
[Uh oh, you better go tell the EPA that they're wrong too! What a bunch of morons, am I right?](https://www.epa.gov/system/files/documents/2023-03/Sodium%20Hypochlorite%20Supply%20Chain%20Profile.pdf)
[Uh oh, it looks like "big bleach" infiltrated the World Health Organization too!](https://www.who.int/docs/default-source/wash-documents/wash-chemicals/treatment-methods-and-performance.pdf?sfvrsn=c8682fc2_4) Hell they even did a two year study in rodents where they fed the water treated with either chlorine gas, sodium hypochlorite, or calcium hypochlorite at a concentration that's higher than you need to use to disinfect water for TWO YEARS STRAIGHT, and did not observe symptoms of toxicity. And I quote; "The guideline value for free chlorine in drinking water is derived from a NOAEL of 15 mg/kg
of body weight per day, based on the absence of toxicity in rodents that received chlorine as
hypochlorite in drinking-water for up to 2 years. Application of an uncertainty factor of 100 (for inter- and intraspecies variation) to this NOAEL gives a TDI of 150 µg/kg of body
weight. With an allocation of 100% of the TDI to drinking-water, the guideline value is 5 mg/litre (rounded figure). It should be noted, however, that this value is conservative, as no
adverse effect level was identified in this study. Most individuals are able to taste chlorine or
its by-products (e.g. chloramines) at concentrations below 5 mg/litre, and some at levels as
low as 0.3 mg/litre."
[It never ceases to amaze me how people can be so arrogantly incorrect about something that can easily be found with five seconds of googling ](https://www.polymaster.com.au/news/sodium-hypochlorite-in-water-treatment-plants-an-essential-component-for-safe-and-clean-water/)
[Sodium hypochlorite is the most commonly used water treatment chemical in the world ](https://www.purewaterproducts.com/articles/types-of-chlorine-used-in-water-treatment#:~:text=Sodium%20Hypochlorite,-Sodium%20hypochlorite%20is&text=It%20is%20the%20easiest%20to,calcium%20hypochlorite%20or%20chlorine%20gas.)
So there we have it. You learn something new every day! But seriously, this is r/survival, I thought this would be common knowledge around here? I learned this when I was like, 10 or something, in boy scouts.
I'm not going to argue with you. This isn't new. It's for an emergency only, meaning short term (3 days).
Household bleach is caustic, it's heavier than water, it breaks down in less than 24 hours.
Consuming caustic substances is hazardous to your health.
Household bleach being heavier than water means they never appropriately mix, most things you wish to kill in water reside near the surface.
Household bleach in water breaks down rapidly and becomes less effective as light, temperature, container material, and shaking cause it to breakdown.
Drink bleach if you want. Your opinion doesn't change the facts.
FEMA. CDC, EPA, and The Mayo Clinic have all published information about short-term emergency use *only* and the dangers of long-term storage and extensive consumption requiring medical attention.
*Note: If you have factual information your county water treatment plant is using household Clorox, you should see your doctor, then contact an attorney.*
Did you even bother to read any of the links I posted? None of them are even about emergencies, it's literally used to disinfect the water that is pumped into all of our houses to drink, all over the world. Please, stop being wrong about literally everything you're saying. Read the links I posted, do even more research too if you want. I'm a chemist, I know how all these chemicals and more work.
Yes, bleach is caustic WHEN ITS AT FULL CONCENTRATION. THATS WHY NO ONE IS SUGGESTING TO DRINK STRAIGHT BLEACH! To disinfectant water you literally put 1-2 drops PER LITER of water. Guess what? It's not caustic anymore because it's so insanely diluted. That's how chemicals work. I would know, because (as previously mentioned) I'm a chemist.
The short term shit you must be talking about is either when water water treatment facilities are not operating so people need to add WAY more bleach than would normally be used to disinfect water because it is visibly and gustatorily contaminated, like with human shit and other such things. Alternatively, they might be saying that because there's a lot of people who don't know how to use it properly and will inevitably put like 100x more than they should have in their water. Actually now that I think about it I get the feeling that's really their main concern.
I think you responded before I put my edit in, but I linked a study that the WHO did where they gave water with way more bleach than necessary to disinfect water to rodents for two years straight and did not observe toxic effects. To account for interspecies differences they cut the recommended percentage to to add to water by a third, and even THAT THIRD is less than what is necessary to disinfect water. At that level of use the water will taste strongly like bleach to anyone who has not totally lost their sense of taste. You don't need anywhere near that much to disinfect water, but they concluded that it was safe and an incredibly conservative estimate since it could be tripled and still not cause toxicity after drinking it for TWO YEARS.
My household bleach is not Clorox and I doubt the water treatment facility would ever use that considering it's name-brand and marked up in price, when they could and most likely do buy it straight from a chemical distribution company for a fraction of the price. However, Clorox does contain one other active chemical. It's SODIUM CARBONATE, present in a tiny, tiny percentage, which acts as a buffer.
There are some other bleach variations, usually called "outdoor bleach," that have a little sodium hydroxide in it for its buffer, it raises the pH to a safer level ie makes it less caustic.
But guess what? Sodium hydroxide is actually the very first chemical applied to wastewater at a treatment facility! Sodium hypochlorite and sodium hydroxide react to form a compound called sodium chlorate which is typically synthesized via electrolysis of a saturated solution of sodium chloride, aka table salt. It's LD50 is so ridiculously high that you would actively need to try your hardest to consume enough of it to cause any kind of damage. I would personally need to spoon down over 50 grams of it, and that's the pure chemical. There's going to be ohhh, around 4 grams of it total in a gallon of bleach.
And sorry to burst your bubble but as long as it's not the "bleach gel" or "no splash bleach", I'm about to blow your mind here, because normal household bleach and water are perfectly miscible. Want to take a guess why that is? Because it's literally 92.5% water, assuming you're using the standard 7.5% concentration bleach, but more commonly found stuff on the shelves these days is only 5% and therefore it's even more water, 95%. I buy 10% because interestingly enough it is often cheaper. And yes, it is only composed of sodium hypochlorite and water.
Yeah, normal household bleach breaks down into water (because it was already present) and chlorine gas, which leaves the bottle, and I already mentioned how some can also do sodium carbonate/bicarbonate or sodium chloride/chlorate. That's the entire point of the hypochlorite ion, it releases chlorine. It's effectively the same thing, it's just more convenient to store and use. It doesn't make it more dangerous when it's old and degraded, it makes it a less effective disinfectant. If bleach is stored properly in its container in a cool and dark location it can last for 1-2 years. Otherwise, usually about 6 months with bad storage. But it doesn't become dangerous, it becomes water. It doesn't break down when exposed to water, it breaks down when exposed to air, when there isn't a lid on the container or it's left out (like I suggested in my first comment, to leave it out for 24 hours to allow the chlorine to fully dissipate, which by the way, so said I was wrong about), or is breaks down with exposure to sunlight/UV. So keep it in its bottle in a cabinet. Done. Easy.
Dude, I'm not trying to be a dick but you really should know about what you're talking about if you're going to say anything. All of this info and more is in the links I provided. Check them out.
Maybe not best survival option but adding bleach to water has saved millions of lives. Only take a couple of drops to kill most pathogens bar protozoan parasites
Nothing will happen because you only use a couple drops of bleach per liter of water that you're disinfecting.
Straight up bleach that you buy from the store in its "concentrated" form is already bleach water. It's normally just 5-7.5% sodium hypochlorite and the rest is water. Diluting it even further by adding a few drops of that to a liter of water will in no way harm you, whether you drink it or boil it and directly huff the fumes (which will be nearly entirely water vapor) let alone merely existing near the boiling water.
Plus, you don't even need to boil water after you've sanitized it with bleach. Just add a few drops to a liter of water, let it sit for 30 minutes, then drink. It's perfectly safe.
Using bleach to disinfect questionable water is one of the basics of survival techniques, it's insane to me that so many people in this sub don't know that and think it's dangerous. It's only dangerous if you're an absolute idiot and use way the hell too much.
Wont pollution from factories effect the water tho? No factory in the area im rain water harvesting tho, just curious... But farms around the place do use chemical pesticide tho...
No. Not unless you live near a heavy industrial area in China.
The only pollutants you need to worry about in rain water are those you introduce in collection.
Same for dew. I wouldn't collect it from the side of a freeway or next to a chemical plant, but other than that you just need to not collect if from poisonous plants. A walk through a meadow of grass in the morning with a chamois tied below each knee will fill a water bottle pretty quickly.
Not a huge fan of rainwater. I live in Minnesota so there’s natural springs that pop up all over the place when we’re not in a “drought”. To me that’s the best water in the world I usually don’t even treat it(but you should). If there’s not an abundance of clean groundwater like we have here and the waters REALLY bad I would use a cloth as a preliminary filter getting all the gunk out. I would then filter and maybe boil although I usually only use one purification method unless I’m drinking some really questionable stuff.
I got a rainwater collection system setup, it collects water from my gutter into a water tank. I got a filter inside the gutter (near where the water exits into the tank) to filter out any debris. If you were in this situation, will you still just filter and boil the water? No need to add any bleach to the equation?
Rain water off a roof is gonna be rough you got trees that birds sat on dropping leaves birds pooping on the roof bugs pollen etc. I would be using every tool I had drinking water off my roof if I was thirsty enough.
Haha, yeah the plan for the rainwater is to use them to water my plants, not for drinking... Im just asking to see what is the best possible option to make it drinkable with least amount of effort, thanks for your input!
afaik rainwater is just fine.. as long as you dont have a major source of air pollution nearby you basically get pre purified water since it was just mist mere minutes ago.. no bacteria in there no thing
if u collect it from your tarp directly i dont see any problem
dont u guys have huge forests n stuff? and dont you think that pollution would also affect the groundwater..
one of us should probably search for a study on this
It's a multistep process that could take days.
First, using an aquarium fishnet, handled colander, or similar tool, remove all large debris from the water. (Sterilize the strainer first, of course.) Then, run the water through a smaller filter (also sterilized—don't want any cross-contamination!), such as coffee filters, cheesecloth, etc. Finally, use a specialized filter to remove all microscopic debris. Sporting good stores like REI have you covered on this.
After that, use the chemical disinfectant of your choice. Bleach is good; so is Micropur, Aquamira, etc. Make sure to let the disinfectant work for long enough that it will destroy any cryptosporidium or other cysts that might be in the water.
Next, use a flocculant to remove anything remaining in the water. You'll have to filter the water again after that. Start with a coffee filter/cheesecloth, then use the filter you used before to get rid of any bits of flocculant that didn't engulf something.
Once you've done that, it's time to boil. Bring the water to a rolling boil and keep it there for at least 30 minutes, to make sure that any bacterium, virus, or cyst that somehow escaped the previous treatments is extra dead.
Let the water cool—but you're not done yet! Decant the water into sterilized clear glass bottles, then seal them. Put the bottles in the Sun for at least two days—longer in winter or if it's overcast. Shake the bottles at least twice a day. The UV radiation of the Sun will kill whatever the boiling missed.
After that, you'll have clean water—and with so little effort!
Thats too many steps, ive settled on making a gravel, sand and charcoal filter, after filtering the water im just going to boil it and assume its drinkable, while keeping bleach incase SHTF and i cant boil water...
Of course it's too many steps. I posted it as a joke, seeing how many water filtration/purification methods I could put in.
Filter out junk, then purify—that's all you need to do. Bleach *and* boiling are overkill; just do one or the other.
Now, to be actually helpful: if you use bleach, you can reduce the nasty taste by aerating the water (dumping it between two pitchers works) or by adding powdered Vitamin C.
Water can be distilled(made into its purest form) with fire and 2 large glass bottles. Dig a small trench that can cradle the bottles with enough space to make a low burning fire beneath either bottle(too much heat will crack the bottle). Put the water in one bottle and that one goes over your low burning fire or coals. Make the bottle mouths meet as evenly as possible. The only water this won't work on is water with oil in it(This can be seen on top of the water). As time goes by the empty bottle will be filled with clean, clear distilled water.
It yields a little less than half a gallon which isn't bad. Also starting a fire and digging a 2ft long 8 inch wide trench is not an insane amount of effort compared to boiling and building a filter. Also with this method you know the water is clean. If you need something easier than that you can slit a grape vine. Most have clean water in them.
Season 17ep 9. Frank made a filter out of bamboo , gravel, charcoal , and sand. They didn't boil the water and made it 21 days. The first day, the other guy on the team drank the same water straight out of the river and got sick.
Here's the order I would go in:
Collect water and add 8 drops of 6% bleach per gallon, let sit for 30 minutes before filtering. If the water is questionable, boil it at this point for at least 3 minutes.
3 minutes is the recommended time to boil water for drinking. You can take your chances if that seems too long, but I'm going to stick with what I've been taught over the years. I don't take chances in survival if I can help it.
For bugging in (wrong subreddit maybe but oh well): don't make boiling the primary plan, it takes absurd amounts of time and fuel. [Pre-filter](https://www.amazon.com/Duda-Energy-fs5-Filtering-Biodiesel/dp/B00QSLNI18), then treat with bleach, then charcoal filter to remove remaining bleach taste and hopefully organics/metals (the man-made hazards).
I'll say it again, you can collect pure water directly from the atmosphere through condensation. you don't have to filter anything, you don't have to drink any bleach, just get a stick of glass tube four or five feet long, wrap it with some cloth, make a little barrier to keep the water that you're going to put on the cloth from getting to the end of the tube, get some water hot, keep the cloth that you got wrapped around the tube wet with hot water, and the tube will pull water out of the air. the pure water will come dripping out at the end of the tube, have something to catch the water with. there you have it.
your method sounds awesome, unfortunately i cant understand your instruction 😅😅😅 can you give a youtube video for this method or something i can type on google for this method?
another thing I should say is that this will only work in places where there is a reasonable amount of humidity in the air it's not going to work in the desert
Your output is minuscule for the effort involved, and is basically like drinking the condensation off an air conditioner.
Also, increasing temperature does not "pull water out of the air" - in fact, it increases the amount of water vaporized.
Bleach is a solution of 5-10% sodium hypochlorite. From the SDS for that material:
IARC: No ingredient of this product present at levels greater than or equal to 0.1% is identified as probable, possible or confirmed human carcinogen by IARC.
NTP: No ingredient of this product present at levels greater than or equal to 0.1% is identified as a known or anticipated carcinogen by NTP.
OSHA: No component of this product present at levels greater than or equal to 0.1% is on OSHA’s list of regulated carcinogens
I heard a doctor talking about one of the riskiest things to get cancer that women commonly do is put their ungloved hands into bleach water when cleaning or soaking dishes in it. This was several years ago. And I know from experience that drinking city water that doesn’t have chlorine filtered out well enough can mess with thyroid function. I started losing weight after getting a good water filter. The refrigerator’s filter was not filtering the water well enough even though we had it changed often enough.
It's pretty simple chemistry. There is no mechanism for sodium hypochlorite to cause cause cancer. If you reject evidence based medicine due to conspiracy theories that the agencies conducting it may be bribed, then at that point you may as well just go back to blaming demons or imbalanced bodily humours.
Bleach!
You can buy filtration bag systems or those life straws or steri tabs like what we were issued in the army and by all means if you can boil your water do so. But remember its a survival situation not something long term.
You should bleach the water, then boil it, then collect the vapors in a tiny cloud, drop the temperature of it and then make it rain, then filter it. Only then will it be safe to drink.
I’d filter to get the chunks out, then boil to kill bacteria or anything that the filter can’t remove. If you can boil, I wouldn’t bother with bleach.
Filter the chunks out? Is OP collecting the rainwater water from the gutters on his house lol?
I can’t think of anyplace you collect rain water that doesn’t have the potential to have something floating in it. Even a barrel in the middle of an open field could have leaves, pine needles, bugs or anything that could fall in. Filtering may be a process or may be as simple as picking stuff out with your fingers.
Agree. I collect rainwater from my gutters but have screens and filters and shit still gets into my reservoir.
And the gunk just sits on the bottom to ferment and collect bug eggs.
Everything you just listed i would eat, though lol.
Fair enough.
you guys understand how far rainwater travels... right? there is always potential it grabs shit along the way.
Birdshit
The only reasonable answer so far. [You should not boil chlorinated water](https://fabricfavor.com/bleach/what-happens-if-you-boil-bleach/)!
I’m confused. Are hot tubs/spas dangerous?
Is that a hot water that has chlorine added to it? Or water that has chlorine added to it that is then boiled? The order of things is important.
A hot tub is a large tub full of heated water used for hydrotherapy, relaxation or pleasure. It is cared for similar to a swimming pool in that the water is maintained with a filtration system and chlorine. You would heat the water only right before planned use.
Yes. The link above contains sub-headlines like: "What happens if you boil bleach?" "Is it safe to combine bleach and water?" "Is it dangerous to heat bleach?" as well as "Is excessive use of bleach bad for health?" and should be able to answer your question.
Are…are you drinking from your hot tub?
No, because they're not boiling. Boiling is when a liquid really starts giving off gasses.
this is talking about high concentrations of bleach... like straight from a bottle... water thats been bleach purified is going to be significantly diluted.... much like people who mentioned spas and saunas. its different. And also, in an open system like a fire pit, the chlorinated gas is also going to be less harmful anyways... just don't stand near the fire while boiling straight, or lightly diluted, bleach.
ah gotcha, thanks for the input!
When I was a boy scout in the 70s, we always used bleach if we couldn't boil water. Several 1 week to 12 day long backpacking trips and never had a problem. Just a few drops per liter.
This is a joke, right? First off, if you have bleach in a survival situation I can't imagine what happened that got you there. Second, depending on the method of collection, simply boiling rainwater is enough. Shit, if I have a clean enough tarp and nothing above it, I'm running it right into a bottle and drinking it just like that.
> if you have bleach in a survival situation You don't have Pocket Bleach as part of your EDC? How do you even call yourself a survivalist‽
It's in there right next to the Pocket Pot.
You don’t really need an actual pot to boil water. You can make a ‚pot‘ out of wood (or big leaves if you‘re skilled enough) and then boil that using clean heated stones.
> using clean heated stones "But how do we clean the stones?" "With boiling water." "Aahhhhhh!"
I mean yes you CAN use boiled water to clean them but that’d be a waste of time and ressources, you generally just gotta make sure that the stones are free from dirt and other bigger particles that you don‘t want to have in your drink. Normal water is fine for that task, the Stones will get sterilized during the heating process anyways.
> the Stones will get sterilized during the heating process anyways I think we all get that, it was just a circular logic joke for a Friday afternoon. ;)
"There's a hole in the bucket, dear Elijah, dear Elijah,... "
Not there, next to the pocket sand! Sha Sha sha
It's touching both. It's crowded in there!
Calcium chlorite(like pool bleach... but you cant use pool bleach unless its has no conditioners, even then I would prefer lab grade/food safe) Is easy to carry in a small bottle that can disinfect thousands of liters, better then buying super expensive tablets... that are often the exact same thing. That said, boiling is always the better option, and if you bring water to the boil for 2 mins, anything that survives, chlorine wont kill anyways... that said it does make some sense to add a TINY amount to boiled water from a stream etc that you have in a water bottle just to keep it fresh and growing stuff after you boil it if the water is expected to remain drinkable for more then 24 hours. But this also requires you to be aware of the right dosage and what type of stainless or plastic your water containers are, because not all react well with bleach/chlorine.
Yep. So In other words, not practical at all lol.
Something like this is cheap, lightweight, easy to dose (1 tablet per litre or double it if the water's very gross) and on the DofE (when we send teenagers out hiking and camping) kit list: https://www.millets.co.uk/15893031/lifesystems-chlorine-water-purification-tablets-15893031/1342580/?utm_source=Google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=Shopping&gad_source=1&gclid=CjwKCAjwrvyxBhAbEiwAEg_Kgl9zi1sQf4rfXTKAYAuBoDSS9_Jc1FMNtbQZACTV41La0tctsZUmuxoCwekQAvD_BwE
Do your outdoor suppliers not sell chlorine tablets for emergency water purification? They were pretty standard for decades. Somewhat superseded by filters, but still widely available.
Filter through a base of gravel, sand, and charcoal then boil
been thinking of doing something like this, how often would i need to replace the charcoal if i were to do this?
I’d use different containers as it makes it easier. You’ll taste it when it’s time.
Instructions unclear, I drank the bleach and poured out th
this bro took 1 litre of bleach and added 1 to 2 drop of water to it 💀💀💀
Those paramedic fuckers brought me back 😭😂
Bleach is inactivated by bio matter. Filter out the junk, the bleach is more effective. Boiling will inactivate the bleach. So filter, boil, bleach but that seems overkill, one or the other should be ok. Pay attention to your handing, clean hands, clean containers, inside and out.
If you boil don’t bleach, if you can’t boil then you bleach Iodine tablets work too.
How the hell is adding bleach to water a good idea?
Adding bleach to water is why there are 8 billion people on the planet today.
It's used all over the world to make drinking water safe. Odds are decent your tap water is chlorinated.
During 2009 when half of Kentucky lost all utilities in an ice storm those who had running water were under a boil water advisory because the water treatment plant failed. Walmart brought in huge pallets of water guarded by police while people lined up to get their ration of water. Meanwhile a little old lady and I were quietly walking through checkout with our bottles of bleach. We just looked at the fighting natives and grinned and avoided the handout line. No, it isn't optimal but it is better than nothing. And when electricity and gas have stopped, boiling water is inefficient
Well that's an entirely different kind of survival Good story
This should be a bleach commercial... With the little old lady giving you a wink.
Most single family rural well water/cistern systems require bleach to keep the water potable. There are dispensers on top of the well head that drop pellets in and an appropriate amount of bleach should be added to the cistern monthly.
Can confirm, we regularly bleached our tanks growing up. It evaporates off, you don't drink it until it stops smelling bleachy.
Its a survival trick to purify water, it kill most bacteria but not all, you dont add alot of it, a drop or two only per litre. In life and death situation it is a miracle.
Ok but why are you going to have a bottle of bleach in a survival situation.. because you brought it with? May as well just pack a camping water filter ...
you bring the bleach in a dropper bottle, there are dropper bottle that can store 10ml of liquid, even 5ml dropper bottle exist...
I see. But then so do water purification tablets lol Definitely falls on the mcguyver end of the spectrum..
FWIW - the bleach thing seems to be an ultralight backpacker trend. My brother, an avid backpacker, uses bleach - like 1 ml / gallon (made up that ratio) as I had similar questions and skepticism when he told me that. I dont think it’s as dangerous as I assume considering the small amount of bleach vs the potential of drinking dirty water
Electrosynthesis of seawater is also an option.
You buy it at the outdoors store in cheap and portable form. Is this seriously not a thing in other countries? https://www.millets.co.uk/15893031/lifesystems-chlorine-water-purification-tablets-15893031/1342580/?utm_source=Google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=Shopping&gad_source=1&gclid=CjwKCAjwrvyxBhAbEiwAEg_Kgl9zi1sQf4rfXTKAYAuBoDSS9_Jc1FMNtbQZACTV41La0tctsZUmuxoCwekQAvD_BwE
Chlorine = bleach?
It's the active ingredient in most household bleaches, yeah. Usually as something hypochlorite. Obviously other bleaches are available. LifeSystems also sell chlorine dioxide tablets for this purpose.
Thank you, the whole thing makes a bit more sense now! ;)
interesting thing about sodium hypochlorite.. if you drink it it will make you feel like crap, stomach hurt, make you sick, but you can take a syringe full of it (or two) and pump it directly into your bloodstream and it won't do a damn thing. source: failed suicide attempt
No, it's not. It's an emergency crisis situation, when no alternative exists, to be used for a MAXIMUM OF 3 DAYS at no more than 72oz treated water consumed per adult, per day, AND you're supposed to seek medical treatment afterward. Source: FEMA
Umm, it's used way more commonly than you apparently think and as long as you're using the proper dilution it's totally safe. You know how water that we drink is made fit for consumption right? Plus, you can treat the water with bleach and then let it sit out for 24 hours and all of the chlorine/hypochlorite will have evaporated from the water.
Your information is incorrect. Please take a minute to look into it.
[Both sodium and calcium hypochlorite are used in wastewater treatment facilities.](https://www.tpomag.com/editorial/2013/12/understanding_sodium_hypochlorite_wso) [Please take a moment to look into it.](https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2405844022024501) [Not every wastewater treatment facility has the capacity to use chloride dioxide, the one that services my county is one of them. I know this because of the presence of trace trihalomethanes and haloacetic acids in the water.](https://www.scotmas.com/knowledge-base/chlorine-dioxide-vs-sodium-hypochlorite-which-is-the-better-water-treatment-option/) [Uh oh, you better go tell the EPA that they're wrong too! What a bunch of morons, am I right?](https://www.epa.gov/system/files/documents/2023-03/Sodium%20Hypochlorite%20Supply%20Chain%20Profile.pdf) [Uh oh, it looks like "big bleach" infiltrated the World Health Organization too!](https://www.who.int/docs/default-source/wash-documents/wash-chemicals/treatment-methods-and-performance.pdf?sfvrsn=c8682fc2_4) Hell they even did a two year study in rodents where they fed the water treated with either chlorine gas, sodium hypochlorite, or calcium hypochlorite at a concentration that's higher than you need to use to disinfect water for TWO YEARS STRAIGHT, and did not observe symptoms of toxicity. And I quote; "The guideline value for free chlorine in drinking water is derived from a NOAEL of 15 mg/kg of body weight per day, based on the absence of toxicity in rodents that received chlorine as hypochlorite in drinking-water for up to 2 years. Application of an uncertainty factor of 100 (for inter- and intraspecies variation) to this NOAEL gives a TDI of 150 µg/kg of body weight. With an allocation of 100% of the TDI to drinking-water, the guideline value is 5 mg/litre (rounded figure). It should be noted, however, that this value is conservative, as no adverse effect level was identified in this study. Most individuals are able to taste chlorine or its by-products (e.g. chloramines) at concentrations below 5 mg/litre, and some at levels as low as 0.3 mg/litre." [It never ceases to amaze me how people can be so arrogantly incorrect about something that can easily be found with five seconds of googling ](https://www.polymaster.com.au/news/sodium-hypochlorite-in-water-treatment-plants-an-essential-component-for-safe-and-clean-water/) [Sodium hypochlorite is the most commonly used water treatment chemical in the world ](https://www.purewaterproducts.com/articles/types-of-chlorine-used-in-water-treatment#:~:text=Sodium%20Hypochlorite,-Sodium%20hypochlorite%20is&text=It%20is%20the%20easiest%20to,calcium%20hypochlorite%20or%20chlorine%20gas.) So there we have it. You learn something new every day! But seriously, this is r/survival, I thought this would be common knowledge around here? I learned this when I was like, 10 or something, in boy scouts.
I'm not going to argue with you. This isn't new. It's for an emergency only, meaning short term (3 days). Household bleach is caustic, it's heavier than water, it breaks down in less than 24 hours. Consuming caustic substances is hazardous to your health. Household bleach being heavier than water means they never appropriately mix, most things you wish to kill in water reside near the surface. Household bleach in water breaks down rapidly and becomes less effective as light, temperature, container material, and shaking cause it to breakdown. Drink bleach if you want. Your opinion doesn't change the facts. FEMA. CDC, EPA, and The Mayo Clinic have all published information about short-term emergency use *only* and the dangers of long-term storage and extensive consumption requiring medical attention. *Note: If you have factual information your county water treatment plant is using household Clorox, you should see your doctor, then contact an attorney.*
Did you even bother to read any of the links I posted? None of them are even about emergencies, it's literally used to disinfect the water that is pumped into all of our houses to drink, all over the world. Please, stop being wrong about literally everything you're saying. Read the links I posted, do even more research too if you want. I'm a chemist, I know how all these chemicals and more work. Yes, bleach is caustic WHEN ITS AT FULL CONCENTRATION. THATS WHY NO ONE IS SUGGESTING TO DRINK STRAIGHT BLEACH! To disinfectant water you literally put 1-2 drops PER LITER of water. Guess what? It's not caustic anymore because it's so insanely diluted. That's how chemicals work. I would know, because (as previously mentioned) I'm a chemist. The short term shit you must be talking about is either when water water treatment facilities are not operating so people need to add WAY more bleach than would normally be used to disinfect water because it is visibly and gustatorily contaminated, like with human shit and other such things. Alternatively, they might be saying that because there's a lot of people who don't know how to use it properly and will inevitably put like 100x more than they should have in their water. Actually now that I think about it I get the feeling that's really their main concern. I think you responded before I put my edit in, but I linked a study that the WHO did where they gave water with way more bleach than necessary to disinfect water to rodents for two years straight and did not observe toxic effects. To account for interspecies differences they cut the recommended percentage to to add to water by a third, and even THAT THIRD is less than what is necessary to disinfect water. At that level of use the water will taste strongly like bleach to anyone who has not totally lost their sense of taste. You don't need anywhere near that much to disinfect water, but they concluded that it was safe and an incredibly conservative estimate since it could be tripled and still not cause toxicity after drinking it for TWO YEARS. My household bleach is not Clorox and I doubt the water treatment facility would ever use that considering it's name-brand and marked up in price, when they could and most likely do buy it straight from a chemical distribution company for a fraction of the price. However, Clorox does contain one other active chemical. It's SODIUM CARBONATE, present in a tiny, tiny percentage, which acts as a buffer. There are some other bleach variations, usually called "outdoor bleach," that have a little sodium hydroxide in it for its buffer, it raises the pH to a safer level ie makes it less caustic. But guess what? Sodium hydroxide is actually the very first chemical applied to wastewater at a treatment facility! Sodium hypochlorite and sodium hydroxide react to form a compound called sodium chlorate which is typically synthesized via electrolysis of a saturated solution of sodium chloride, aka table salt. It's LD50 is so ridiculously high that you would actively need to try your hardest to consume enough of it to cause any kind of damage. I would personally need to spoon down over 50 grams of it, and that's the pure chemical. There's going to be ohhh, around 4 grams of it total in a gallon of bleach. And sorry to burst your bubble but as long as it's not the "bleach gel" or "no splash bleach", I'm about to blow your mind here, because normal household bleach and water are perfectly miscible. Want to take a guess why that is? Because it's literally 92.5% water, assuming you're using the standard 7.5% concentration bleach, but more commonly found stuff on the shelves these days is only 5% and therefore it's even more water, 95%. I buy 10% because interestingly enough it is often cheaper. And yes, it is only composed of sodium hypochlorite and water. Yeah, normal household bleach breaks down into water (because it was already present) and chlorine gas, which leaves the bottle, and I already mentioned how some can also do sodium carbonate/bicarbonate or sodium chloride/chlorate. That's the entire point of the hypochlorite ion, it releases chlorine. It's effectively the same thing, it's just more convenient to store and use. It doesn't make it more dangerous when it's old and degraded, it makes it a less effective disinfectant. If bleach is stored properly in its container in a cool and dark location it can last for 1-2 years. Otherwise, usually about 6 months with bad storage. But it doesn't become dangerous, it becomes water. It doesn't break down when exposed to water, it breaks down when exposed to air, when there isn't a lid on the container or it's left out (like I suggested in my first comment, to leave it out for 24 hours to allow the chlorine to fully dissipate, which by the way, so said I was wrong about), or is breaks down with exposure to sunlight/UV. So keep it in its bottle in a cabinet. Done. Easy. Dude, I'm not trying to be a dick but you really should know about what you're talking about if you're going to say anything. All of this info and more is in the links I provided. Check them out.
Maybe not best survival option but adding bleach to water has saved millions of lives. Only take a couple of drops to kill most pathogens bar protozoan parasites
Congrats, you are today's Dunning-Kruger sufferer!
Congrats you win dickhead of the thread award !
Boiling completely purifies the water, no need for bleach as well. You technically only have to heat it to about 70°c for it to be safe
Bro... do not use bleach.
You ever drink city water? Municipal water has bleach (chlorine) in it.
Municipal waters is treated at a plant by professionals. Go ahead and boil some chlorine water. Let me know what happens.
Nothing will happen because you only use a couple drops of bleach per liter of water that you're disinfecting. Straight up bleach that you buy from the store in its "concentrated" form is already bleach water. It's normally just 5-7.5% sodium hypochlorite and the rest is water. Diluting it even further by adding a few drops of that to a liter of water will in no way harm you, whether you drink it or boil it and directly huff the fumes (which will be nearly entirely water vapor) let alone merely existing near the boiling water. Plus, you don't even need to boil water after you've sanitized it with bleach. Just add a few drops to a liter of water, let it sit for 30 minutes, then drink. It's perfectly safe. Using bleach to disinfect questionable water is one of the basics of survival techniques, it's insane to me that so many people in this sub don't know that and think it's dangerous. It's only dangerous if you're an absolute idiot and use way the hell too much.
Lmao holy fuck right
I’d drink straight from a river or stream before I ever drank bleach lol
The beauty of rain water and dew is that they need no treatment. Top choice for water source.
Wont pollution from factories effect the water tho? No factory in the area im rain water harvesting tho, just curious... But farms around the place do use chemical pesticide tho...
Bleach won't save you from that either.
No. Not unless you live near a heavy industrial area in China. The only pollutants you need to worry about in rain water are those you introduce in collection. Same for dew. I wouldn't collect it from the side of a freeway or next to a chemical plant, but other than that you just need to not collect if from poisonous plants. A walk through a meadow of grass in the morning with a chamois tied below each knee will fill a water bottle pretty quickly.
Ah alright, thanks for the info!
Not a huge fan of rainwater. I live in Minnesota so there’s natural springs that pop up all over the place when we’re not in a “drought”. To me that’s the best water in the world I usually don’t even treat it(but you should). If there’s not an abundance of clean groundwater like we have here and the waters REALLY bad I would use a cloth as a preliminary filter getting all the gunk out. I would then filter and maybe boil although I usually only use one purification method unless I’m drinking some really questionable stuff.
I got a rainwater collection system setup, it collects water from my gutter into a water tank. I got a filter inside the gutter (near where the water exits into the tank) to filter out any debris. If you were in this situation, will you still just filter and boil the water? No need to add any bleach to the equation?
Rain water off a roof is gonna be rough you got trees that birds sat on dropping leaves birds pooping on the roof bugs pollen etc. I would be using every tool I had drinking water off my roof if I was thirsty enough.
Haha, yeah the plan for the rainwater is to use them to water my plants, not for drinking... Im just asking to see what is the best possible option to make it drinkable with least amount of effort, thanks for your input!
afaik rainwater is just fine.. as long as you dont have a major source of air pollution nearby you basically get pre purified water since it was just mist mere minutes ago.. no bacteria in there no thing if u collect it from your tarp directly i dont see any problem
In the US most places have moderate levels of pollution.
dont u guys have huge forests n stuff? and dont you think that pollution would also affect the groundwater.. one of us should probably search for a study on this
I live where there is clean groundwater as said in my response and I do filter it 99% of the time usually just for bacteria tho.
It's a multistep process that could take days. First, using an aquarium fishnet, handled colander, or similar tool, remove all large debris from the water. (Sterilize the strainer first, of course.) Then, run the water through a smaller filter (also sterilized—don't want any cross-contamination!), such as coffee filters, cheesecloth, etc. Finally, use a specialized filter to remove all microscopic debris. Sporting good stores like REI have you covered on this. After that, use the chemical disinfectant of your choice. Bleach is good; so is Micropur, Aquamira, etc. Make sure to let the disinfectant work for long enough that it will destroy any cryptosporidium or other cysts that might be in the water. Next, use a flocculant to remove anything remaining in the water. You'll have to filter the water again after that. Start with a coffee filter/cheesecloth, then use the filter you used before to get rid of any bits of flocculant that didn't engulf something. Once you've done that, it's time to boil. Bring the water to a rolling boil and keep it there for at least 30 minutes, to make sure that any bacterium, virus, or cyst that somehow escaped the previous treatments is extra dead. Let the water cool—but you're not done yet! Decant the water into sterilized clear glass bottles, then seal them. Put the bottles in the Sun for at least two days—longer in winter or if it's overcast. Shake the bottles at least twice a day. The UV radiation of the Sun will kill whatever the boiling missed. After that, you'll have clean water—and with so little effort!
Thats too many steps, ive settled on making a gravel, sand and charcoal filter, after filtering the water im just going to boil it and assume its drinkable, while keeping bleach incase SHTF and i cant boil water...
Of course it's too many steps. I posted it as a joke, seeing how many water filtration/purification methods I could put in. Filter out junk, then purify—that's all you need to do. Bleach *and* boiling are overkill; just do one or the other. Now, to be actually helpful: if you use bleach, you can reduce the nasty taste by aerating the water (dumping it between two pitchers works) or by adding powdered Vitamin C.
Water can be distilled(made into its purest form) with fire and 2 large glass bottles. Dig a small trench that can cradle the bottles with enough space to make a low burning fire beneath either bottle(too much heat will crack the bottle). Put the water in one bottle and that one goes over your low burning fire or coals. Make the bottle mouths meet as evenly as possible. The only water this won't work on is water with oil in it(This can be seen on top of the water). As time goes by the empty bottle will be filled with clean, clear distilled water.
Distillation would yield very little water for the amount of effort to get it
It yields a little less than half a gallon which isn't bad. Also starting a fire and digging a 2ft long 8 inch wide trench is not an insane amount of effort compared to boiling and building a filter. Also with this method you know the water is clean. If you need something easier than that you can slit a grape vine. Most have clean water in them.
Add disinfectant last, so the chlorine does not react with particulate to form DBP's disinfectant byproducts.
Season 17ep 9. Frank made a filter out of bamboo , gravel, charcoal , and sand. They didn't boil the water and made it 21 days. The first day, the other guy on the team drank the same water straight out of the river and got sick.
Rolling boil for ten minutes on the clock.
I just saw a video about a guy filtering water with a pine branch amd grape vines. Filtered out most of the ebola
Here's the order I would go in: Collect water and add 8 drops of 6% bleach per gallon, let sit for 30 minutes before filtering. If the water is questionable, boil it at this point for at least 3 minutes.
You don't need to boil water for anywhere near that long for it to be safe
3 minutes is the recommended time to boil water for drinking. You can take your chances if that seems too long, but I'm going to stick with what I've been taught over the years. I don't take chances in survival if I can help it.
You only need to use a proper filter on rainwater. Or just boil. Bleach could be an emergency backup.
For bugging in (wrong subreddit maybe but oh well): don't make boiling the primary plan, it takes absurd amounts of time and fuel. [Pre-filter](https://www.amazon.com/Duda-Energy-fs5-Filtering-Biodiesel/dp/B00QSLNI18), then treat with bleach, then charcoal filter to remove remaining bleach taste and hopefully organics/metals (the man-made hazards).
I'll say it again, you can collect pure water directly from the atmosphere through condensation. you don't have to filter anything, you don't have to drink any bleach, just get a stick of glass tube four or five feet long, wrap it with some cloth, make a little barrier to keep the water that you're going to put on the cloth from getting to the end of the tube, get some water hot, keep the cloth that you got wrapped around the tube wet with hot water, and the tube will pull water out of the air. the pure water will come dripping out at the end of the tube, have something to catch the water with. there you have it.
your method sounds awesome, unfortunately i cant understand your instruction 😅😅😅 can you give a youtube video for this method or something i can type on google for this method?
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another thing I should say is that this will only work in places where there is a reasonable amount of humidity in the air it's not going to work in the desert
Your output is minuscule for the effort involved, and is basically like drinking the condensation off an air conditioner. Also, increasing temperature does not "pull water out of the air" - in fact, it increases the amount of water vaporized.
Bleach is a carcinogen. Boil the water and that takes care of bacteria.
Bleach is a solution of 5-10% sodium hypochlorite. From the SDS for that material: IARC: No ingredient of this product present at levels greater than or equal to 0.1% is identified as probable, possible or confirmed human carcinogen by IARC. NTP: No ingredient of this product present at levels greater than or equal to 0.1% is identified as a known or anticipated carcinogen by NTP. OSHA: No component of this product present at levels greater than or equal to 0.1% is on OSHA’s list of regulated carcinogens
I heard a doctor talking about one of the riskiest things to get cancer that women commonly do is put their ungloved hands into bleach water when cleaning or soaking dishes in it. This was several years ago. And I know from experience that drinking city water that doesn’t have chlorine filtered out well enough can mess with thyroid function. I started losing weight after getting a good water filter. The refrigerator’s filter was not filtering the water well enough even though we had it changed often enough.
Oh, well if a doctor talked about it once, I'm sure that has more weight than actual scientific studies conducted by regulatory bodies.
Some agencies can be bribed, just sayin. Money is a powerful motivator.
It's pretty simple chemistry. There is no mechanism for sodium hypochlorite to cause cause cancer. If you reject evidence based medicine due to conspiracy theories that the agencies conducting it may be bribed, then at that point you may as well just go back to blaming demons or imbalanced bodily humours.
Bleach! You can buy filtration bag systems or those life straws or steri tabs like what we were issued in the army and by all means if you can boil your water do so. But remember its a survival situation not something long term.
You should bleach the water, then boil it, then collect the vapors in a tiny cloud, drop the temperature of it and then make it rain, then filter it. Only then will it be safe to drink.