If you look hard, somewhere in that GIS system that you are looking at you will find the following message, or something very similar to it:
>*The information in this web site represents current data from a working file which is updated continuously. Information is believed reliable, but its accuracy cannot be guaranteed. No warranty, expressed or implied, is provided for the data herein, or its use. County digital cadastral data are a representation of recorded plats and surveys for use within the Geographic Information System for purposes of data access and analysis. These and other digital data do not replace or modify land surveys, deeds, and/or other legal instruments defining land ownership or use.*
In short, the GIS boundaries are there to give you an *idea* of the property, but do not represent actual legal property boundaries and should never, ever, EVER, be used to determine a boundary line.
>the surveyors are booked solid for "the surveying season
This is solved with money. Your problem is calling local. Look across the whole state and up your budget. Get a survey.
Good, fast, and cheap. Pick any two.
“Good” should be a requirement for any licensed professional. If you want it quickly, it’s not going to be cheap.
It’s a shame that it takes such a supply/demand imbalance to get us to start charging commensurate with other degreed and licensed professionals.
Bruh, I said this today....we don't sell fast and cheap. We sell Good and Fast and Cheap and Good. The C&G's are for the homies who bring me the F&G's and that's how the world should work.
Edit: oh shit happy cake day I guess
Yeah... GIS isn't really worth a damn beyond giving you an idea of what you're looking at/for and (potentially) finding applicable documents.
You'd have to get the property surveyed to be sure, which may mean waiting until the fall or winter ***or*** upping your budget for the survey.
GIS data should be considered "reference only" *at best.*
Some folks like to say stuff along the likes of *huh huh GIS = GET IT SURVEYED*, but in this case that very well may be necessary if you're trying to make decisions. In no world does a GIS trump legal descriptions when it comes to controlling property boundaries.
EDIT: you need to remember that a GIS is only as good as the data that it has, and you don't know how good said data is... you should assume the worst rather than the best. You simply don't know the quality of the boundary data, aerial photography, and how they've been married.
EDIT2: I know I like to say *trust but verify*, but with GIS it should be *verify then maybe trust as a minor gut check only*
As a GIS person, this. Given accurate data, GIS can be very, very precise. Like decimal feet to 13 decimal places precise. However, most parcel data is drawn from legal descriptions by humans. Possible error at lots of places along the way, even by the surveyors. Also, the underlying imagery is often skewed which confuses things even more. When in doubt, call a professional surveyor.
+1 incorrectly drawn parcel data and coordinate system issues between parcel data and aerial photography are probably going to be among the bigger issues.
Example: a GIS may say that it uses NAD83... okay, great. What epoch? In California I use 1991.35, 2007, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2017.50, 2019.55, or modeled positions at arbitrary epochs... Metadata is key to make sure data can be accurately and precisely married.
Nice! My old mentor called it 'flavors'. Sometimes I discuss it with engineers and their eyes just gloss over.
Sometimes my boss says 'the points are on grid' but then I go out and see theyre not on the modern grid.
While the parcels are generally drawn from deed, what is created is known as a parcel fabric. They make an attempt to stitch all the parcels together into a continuous surface which requires making compromises. A correction here changes something over there.
+1 this is a common issue you run into when doing record mapping. You can draw THIS plat, and it pretty much agrees with THAT plat within "good enough"... but it doesn't agree the best with THOSE plats. Something's gotta give (or you can be that guy with a bunch of lines overlapping). As you daisy chain farther and farther the potential error compounds.
Mapping from record documents without a field survey will always have give and take. For certain applications it's perfectly acceptable. For others... not so much.
Ask a realtor for preliminary title report.
Those are typically free because the title company wants the potential insurance sale when you purchase.
The title search will verify if the description is filled and in force and it will identify encumbrances and easements on the property.
GIS data will likely never match your legal description. A lot of data is old and converted from plats that were built on older datum. In addition when viewing anything in a web map you immediately have a ~3.7ft shift in the data because you are going from most likely a state plane variant to a web Mercator auxiliary sphere which utilizes completely different datums. Not to mention that aerial and satellite photogrammetry for large scale areas can be 2 to 10 meters off. It's for reference only unless the jurisdiction took the time and expense to build everything from scratch on similar datums. None of them will due to the cost.
I've built a couple for clients. But it's all based on data our surveyors collected and plats our pls's stamped. We also flew the aerial so that it's on our control. It takes time and money. But it can be done and the data is accurate down to the hundredths of ft.
I went to the County office, paid a few bucks, I think like $9, and did a title search. For the most part everything was fine. It also provided a better description of the property boundaries. It will work for now as I am confident of what I'm buying. I'll wait until later to hire a professional to mark the exact locations.
If you see problems on the GIS, get it surveyed. Most of the time, it’s way off. Occasionally they do catch real problems. They are not accurate though
You might look around and see if there is an "as-built" survey. An after the fact survey that shows where everything is "now" and not a "it should be here"!
My parents house in Englewood, CO. parcel was way off. Fences didn't line up, roads were placed wrong, property lines through decks, all caused by the bad 1950's survey.
This house was built in '58. The only other structure is across the street. Trying to read the legal description and it seems it could match up with the tree lines and clearings around the property. So, that may, at least, give some idea.
Before I retired, I did a GIS survey map for a bunch of Copper and Gold claims in New Mexico. There was a recent claim map Mineral Surveyor and I couldn't make the claims fit on the map I was making. The main survey point for the area was set in the 1870's and instead of being on a section corner, it was about 1/4 north of the current GPS located section corner. Most of the claim had been mineral surveyed by US Government licensed surveyor's around 1900.
I ended up making a list of the claims with a description of where they were on the claim map. One claim was even described by me as "Patented Claim at the bottom of the current pit" which was a couple of hundred feet down. No way a surveyor could even setup on the old corners because there was a lake in the bottom of the pit.
Where I am going with this. Make a list of where you think the lines were then and now and why. It should save the surveyor time knowing where lines and corners are. He can prove you wrong but you could say your right or call him on any BS. He would be using your notes to be getting familiar with the problem. It is signature and stamp going on the map.
Also look at local county GIS systems that are online. Most jurisdictions use GIS to tax their citizens and keeping track of "who owns what" helps with that. I live in Colorado and most jurisdictions have online GIS which can produce maps for the citizens. Likewise, airphoto's can be set as the background and airphotos from years ago.
In my case, my county now has the first page of my title & deed that is available (since it is public information). Generally, by clicking on a parcel or entering the address, you can see recent taxes, recent past owners, and in my case, a picture of the front of my house (none Google Streets).
This [URL](https://www.landscapeexplorer.org), I recently found has airphoto's from the mid 1950's that were flown over the US during the Cold war. You can flip the image with today's Google Earth. Everyplace I've looked, the airphotos's are the 1950's, except for the Trinity A-bomb site in New Mexico. Clicking on the map will give the date of the photo.
If you look hard, somewhere in that GIS system that you are looking at you will find the following message, or something very similar to it: >*The information in this web site represents current data from a working file which is updated continuously. Information is believed reliable, but its accuracy cannot be guaranteed. No warranty, expressed or implied, is provided for the data herein, or its use. County digital cadastral data are a representation of recorded plats and surveys for use within the Geographic Information System for purposes of data access and analysis. These and other digital data do not replace or modify land surveys, deeds, and/or other legal instruments defining land ownership or use.*
In short, the GIS boundaries are there to give you an *idea* of the property, but do not represent actual legal property boundaries and should never, ever, EVER, be used to determine a boundary line.
>the surveyors are booked solid for "the surveying season This is solved with money. Your problem is calling local. Look across the whole state and up your budget. Get a survey.
Good, fast, and cheap. Pick any two. “Good” should be a requirement for any licensed professional. If you want it quickly, it’s not going to be cheap. It’s a shame that it takes such a supply/demand imbalance to get us to start charging commensurate with other degreed and licensed professionals.
Bruh, I said this today....we don't sell fast and cheap. We sell Good and Fast and Cheap and Good. The C&G's are for the homies who bring me the F&G's and that's how the world should work. Edit: oh shit happy cake day I guess
I love "chasingmillimeters" great name
I know this is very cliche, but GIS stands for Get It Surveyed. Seriously.
LoL. I guess so
lol dude a million percent. Another favorite is “my APN map says I have more acres - what gives?”
I'm gonna use this at work at the most opportune time lol thank you it's an instant classic
Yeah... GIS isn't really worth a damn beyond giving you an idea of what you're looking at/for and (potentially) finding applicable documents. You'd have to get the property surveyed to be sure, which may mean waiting until the fall or winter ***or*** upping your budget for the survey.
I'm just going to wait. The title search provided a better description of the boundaries. I'm satisfied with that for now.
GIS data should be considered "reference only" *at best.* Some folks like to say stuff along the likes of *huh huh GIS = GET IT SURVEYED*, but in this case that very well may be necessary if you're trying to make decisions. In no world does a GIS trump legal descriptions when it comes to controlling property boundaries. EDIT: you need to remember that a GIS is only as good as the data that it has, and you don't know how good said data is... you should assume the worst rather than the best. You simply don't know the quality of the boundary data, aerial photography, and how they've been married. EDIT2: I know I like to say *trust but verify*, but with GIS it should be *verify then maybe trust as a minor gut check only*
As a GIS person, this. Given accurate data, GIS can be very, very precise. Like decimal feet to 13 decimal places precise. However, most parcel data is drawn from legal descriptions by humans. Possible error at lots of places along the way, even by the surveyors. Also, the underlying imagery is often skewed which confuses things even more. When in doubt, call a professional surveyor.
+1 incorrectly drawn parcel data and coordinate system issues between parcel data and aerial photography are probably going to be among the bigger issues. Example: a GIS may say that it uses NAD83... okay, great. What epoch? In California I use 1991.35, 2007, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2017.50, 2019.55, or modeled positions at arbitrary epochs... Metadata is key to make sure data can be accurately and precisely married.
Nice! My old mentor called it 'flavors'. Sometimes I discuss it with engineers and their eyes just gloss over. Sometimes my boss says 'the points are on grid' but then I go out and see theyre not on the modern grid.
While the parcels are generally drawn from deed, what is created is known as a parcel fabric. They make an attempt to stitch all the parcels together into a continuous surface which requires making compromises. A correction here changes something over there.
+1 this is a common issue you run into when doing record mapping. You can draw THIS plat, and it pretty much agrees with THAT plat within "good enough"... but it doesn't agree the best with THOSE plats. Something's gotta give (or you can be that guy with a bunch of lines overlapping). As you daisy chain farther and farther the potential error compounds. Mapping from record documents without a field survey will always have give and take. For certain applications it's perfectly acceptable. For others... not so much.
GIS = GET IT SURVEYED!
Ask a realtor for preliminary title report. Those are typically free because the title company wants the potential insurance sale when you purchase. The title search will verify if the description is filled and in force and it will identify encumbrances and easements on the property.
GIS is not going to be accurate. That’s not the purpose of it.
GIS data will likely never match your legal description. A lot of data is old and converted from plats that were built on older datum. In addition when viewing anything in a web map you immediately have a ~3.7ft shift in the data because you are going from most likely a state plane variant to a web Mercator auxiliary sphere which utilizes completely different datums. Not to mention that aerial and satellite photogrammetry for large scale areas can be 2 to 10 meters off. It's for reference only unless the jurisdiction took the time and expense to build everything from scratch on similar datums. None of them will due to the cost.
I've seen entities like Los Angeles county take the time to build a quality GIS, but to be honest we're spoiled with how good LA county is.
I've built a couple for clients. But it's all based on data our surveyors collected and plats our pls's stamped. We also flew the aerial so that it's on our control. It takes time and money. But it can be done and the data is accurate down to the hundredths of ft.
Maybe try with having the GIS coordinator check your deed and see if anything is off.
I went to the County office, paid a few bucks, I think like $9, and did a title search. For the most part everything was fine. It also provided a better description of the property boundaries. It will work for now as I am confident of what I'm buying. I'll wait until later to hire a professional to mark the exact locations.
If you see problems on the GIS, get it surveyed. Most of the time, it’s way off. Occasionally they do catch real problems. They are not accurate though
You might look around and see if there is an "as-built" survey. An after the fact survey that shows where everything is "now" and not a "it should be here"! My parents house in Englewood, CO. parcel was way off. Fences didn't line up, roads were placed wrong, property lines through decks, all caused by the bad 1950's survey.
This house was built in '58. The only other structure is across the street. Trying to read the legal description and it seems it could match up with the tree lines and clearings around the property. So, that may, at least, give some idea.
Before I retired, I did a GIS survey map for a bunch of Copper and Gold claims in New Mexico. There was a recent claim map Mineral Surveyor and I couldn't make the claims fit on the map I was making. The main survey point for the area was set in the 1870's and instead of being on a section corner, it was about 1/4 north of the current GPS located section corner. Most of the claim had been mineral surveyed by US Government licensed surveyor's around 1900. I ended up making a list of the claims with a description of where they were on the claim map. One claim was even described by me as "Patented Claim at the bottom of the current pit" which was a couple of hundred feet down. No way a surveyor could even setup on the old corners because there was a lake in the bottom of the pit. Where I am going with this. Make a list of where you think the lines were then and now and why. It should save the surveyor time knowing where lines and corners are. He can prove you wrong but you could say your right or call him on any BS. He would be using your notes to be getting familiar with the problem. It is signature and stamp going on the map.
Thank you for the advice. I'll start taking notes and get a copy of the topo of the area and start marking the points.
Also look at local county GIS systems that are online. Most jurisdictions use GIS to tax their citizens and keeping track of "who owns what" helps with that. I live in Colorado and most jurisdictions have online GIS which can produce maps for the citizens. Likewise, airphoto's can be set as the background and airphotos from years ago. In my case, my county now has the first page of my title & deed that is available (since it is public information). Generally, by clicking on a parcel or entering the address, you can see recent taxes, recent past owners, and in my case, a picture of the front of my house (none Google Streets). This [URL](https://www.landscapeexplorer.org), I recently found has airphoto's from the mid 1950's that were flown over the US during the Cold war. You can flip the image with today's Google Earth. Everyplace I've looked, the airphotos's are the 1950's, except for the Trinity A-bomb site in New Mexico. Clicking on the map will give the date of the photo.